Transcription
But look, Jesus said, "We'll eat and we'll drink together again in God's kingdom. It's eternal life, not eternal death. It's going to be relationship and celebrating and and fun and enjoyment and work and play and rest and even parties. It's going to be the greatest relational celebration you could ever imagine."
Okay, but will we be together with our families? And will we be married in heaven? You know, and if so, to which spouse? That's a question I get. And and what about people that maybe we don't want to spend eternity with? How is that all going to work?
Well, those are questions I get about my research into near-death experiences and the Bible and how it all fits together. And what I can say is this. First of all, God created the idea of family. You know, it says in Psalm 68:6, God places the lonely in families. See, family was meant to be the place where we're not alone, where where we are known and loved and cherished for our uniqueness and where we do that for our brothers and sisters and other family members. And so family is still important to God in heaven because it was God's idea from the beginning.
Now, no earthly family is perfect. We miss God's intent. We wound one another. But through Christ, all who want forgiveness are forgiven. And then they're brought into God's bigger family, the family of God. And in God's greater family, earthly families are reunited together with one another and even live together in heaven's neighborhoods with extended family and around friends. And we will be with generations of family, people who we never even knew, but we'll get to meet and and we'll get to know them. We were related to them all along. Just imagine how intriguing and exciting that will be.
Listen as as Dean, who also had a near-death experience when he had sepsis, and then Dale Black, the commercial airline pilot who was in the airline crash, listen as they describe their their welcome into heaven and the relationship there.
"When I looked up, there's my family. You know, everybody that had been related to me, a part of my family, came to greet me in. You know, my grandmother Mary was out front. You know, people always ask me what does she look like? I always say I can't describe a person in eternity because there's no time there and we describe people in time all the time. But I said I said I tell him she was she was bright, you know, she had a big smile and pure joy. I said she was bright because Jesus was shining out of her. She had a big smile because she had no worry. And then I always said pure joy. And the closest I can come to that is when a person has a child and they hold that baby in their hand for the first time. There's great joy there. But with her was generation after generation after generation after generation after generation after generation after generation of all of those that had a connection with Jesus. They came to greet me in, you know, and again that was not my belief system. I did not think you would recognize or even know your family and it didn't really matter. And yet I came to understand family was important to God. So that was great. And then there was people, to be honest with you, with my belief system that I didn't even think would be there and they were there. And I always talk about my aunt Barbara because I had her not there. I had her in hell. I'll be honest with you. And there she was in heaven. And I came to understand it wasn't up to me, it's up to Jesus. And sometimes we may make a judgment over a person, but that's between them and God. And he knows. And then I came to understand it didn't matter if I knew, it mattered if he knew you."
"So, you're coming down onto this this path and you start to notice people. Yeah. This this is still outside the city wall. It's just outside the city wall. And I start looking at people and they're looking at me and I can hardly describe this experience. But this is my first real experience in heaven. I started looking at these people and I looked and I smiled back because they're all smiling at me. But it's not just a smile. A smile would be external thing that we'd put on our face. But you know when somebody smiles at you on earth and they're smiling from their heart and it's really coming from their heart, you know it's a different right. You know that that smile is genuine. That's you're seeing through the person. You're looking through the eye and you're connecting with the heart of that person. I was looking into the faces of these people. They were joyous. They were complete and utter joy at seeing me. They were joyous and happy about everything, but they were there for me. And I looked into the eyes and I go, 'Oh my gosh.' Of course, their eyes looked brighter and their smiles were were bigger and brighter and there was no wrinkles on their face. And I began to notice quickly there's no sickness. Nobody was deformed. Nobody was this or that. It was just all unity and joy and peace. And I was being welcome. And they had just arrived just in time for my appointment. Apparently, this was appointed by God. And I showed up because God said this was my time to show up. And so there I am. And I'm wondering who these people are. None were my uh earthly family. I've told this story a couple of times and this part of the story about heaven and I've been criticized. Oh, Dale, you've devastated me because you didn't see your earthly family. Well, I didn't finish the rest of the story, but but let me tell you what God did for me in this story. This was my family. These were my brothers. These were my sisters. The This was my family. Okay, they weren't my Earth family. They weren't my biological family. But there was nothing stronger than the bonds of this love and unity which was rooted grounded in the love of God. We had the same father. We served the same God of the universe. We had the same Lord Jesus that had shed his blood for us. So the oneness that we had was way beyond anything that we have on earth even with blood ties. And so did this this group of people there to welcome you did you recognize any of them at that moment and in that area?"
"Absolutely not. You did. And I was not disappointed. I was ecstatic. I was so so grateful."
"Now I mean you were pretty young at the time. Did you even have people you knew who had already passed away?"
"Not a lot, Pastor John. I had a few that had died and and I did see them. I did see a few of them later, but not here."
Dean saw his grandmother and generation after generation. I mean, imagine seeing and getting to know the people that you were related to on earth going all the way back. You know, I lost my dad when I was a fairly young man. And there were so many questions that I wanted to ask him that I never did. Uh so so many things about him that we never never got to talk about. I I think about what an amazing reunion that's going to be when we remember our history on earth, but also without all the hurt and wound. You know, I know my dad was severely wounded as a as a little boy. He was three years old growing up in the Great Depression when his father, who was an alcoholic, abandoned his family. And he had a lot of pain from that. And I think he probably went through a lot of abuse as a result. He watched his his mother um suffer, you know, as she was trying to feed two children in the Great Depression. At his sixth birthday. I remember hearing that um his dad came by, but he was drunk. And my dad asked him, "Dad, will you get me a bicycle for my birthday?" And his dad slurred, "You want a bicycle? Get it yourself." And I know that deeply wounded my dad. And he spent the rest of his life proving, "I don't need you and I will get it myself." and he started to work from age 10. Um, which I'm sure there was a lot that happened there. At age 15, he built uh a room on their house so he wouldn't have to live with his sister. Um, he put himself through college and then a master's and then started his own business. Um, he did really well on the outside, but a lot of it was bad fuel. And I say that because, you know, relational wounds need healing. And when we're driven by bad fuel, we might do a lot of good things, but the bad fuel ends up hurting us. And it did him. And he was a wonderful father to me. He vowed, I'm going to be the father to my son that I never had. And and he was. But at the same time when business would go bad or when there were difficulties, you know, he he smoked and he drank to, you know, try to calm the nerves, but that didn't help. And he had stomach ulcers from the anxiety of it all. Um, and I knew he always hated his dad. I never even knew the name of my granddad. And I think because of all that, you know, my dad ended up getting lung cancer and and dying at a at a fairly young age at 47. I think about that. I think about what's that going to be like to have this great reunion again and to be able to pick up where we left off, but without all the hurt, without all the shame and all the hiddenness that I'm sure kept him from being able to talk to me about all that. because it's all going to be out in the open because there's nothing to hide. It's all restored and made right in the love and the grace and the forgiveness of God. And who knows, maybe my granddad will even be there with my father to welcome me in. I think that would be amazing. You know, my my granddad, like I said, I I think I know his name now, but I didn't. But he hurt many people. And it's not like that doesn't matter. It does matter. In another podcast we'll talk about you know the consequences we heaven and relationship with God's a free gift but what we do in this life has consequences on us and others and even how we enter the life to come even the rewards of the experience of the life to come and we'll talk more about that but at the same time you know maybe my granddad recognized at some point that he was a broken man and his hurts were hurting others and he turned to God for his forgiveness and and he did ask God to help him. I don't know. Who knows? You know, as Dean said, he didn't think Aunt Barbara would be there. He thought she'd be in the other place. Um probably because of the way she acted and the hurts she carried that were never healed and the way she did relational damage to others. And that's why, friends, it's so important to let God heal those relational wounds. We all have them. No one gets out unscathed. And hurt people hurt people unless we say to God, "God, search my heart. Show me the places I've been relationally wounded." And show me, lead me on a journey of healing so that I don't keep acting out of that or passing that on or causing hurt to others. Ask him that. He'll do it. I I've seen him do it in my own life. And that's all a part of bringing the relationship of heaven to earth. God wants to restore all things through his forgiveness. And one day, I hope that my dad in a reconciled relationship with his dad are there at the gates to welcome me in.
Well, notice even if you don't have family that you're expecting to be there or to welcome you in, Dale's welcoming committee was the family of God. He was young at the time. Now, he did later see his grandmother and and granddad. They were there, but that's not who God chose to welcome him in for some reason. And he said, you know, his his ties with his grandmother and granddad were more special because they had earth ties. They had memories and all that. But he said God for some reason let him see his his family that was part of the family of God and the ties the bonds of oneness were closer than anything he had ever experienced on earth. So those of you who maybe don't have family um or aren't close to family, you will have family. Ancestors that you haven't met that will welcome you in, brothers and sisters that are a part of the family of God with bonds greater than you can imagine.
You know, Jesus disciples were like his family. And he told them his last night on earth, there's more than enough room in my father's home. If this were not so, would I have told you? I'm going to prepare a place for you. And when everything is ready, I'll come and get you, and you will always be with me where I am, and you know the way to where I'm going. And then Jesus later said, "I've been very eager to share this Passover meal with you before my suffering begins. For I tell you now that I won't eat this meal again until its meaning is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." And then he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. And he said, "Take this and share it among yourselves. For I will not drink wine again until the kingdom of God has come. You've stayed with me in my time of trial. And just as my father has granted me a kingdom, I now grant you the right to eat and drink at my table in my kingdom."
Do you see the picture of it? It's going to be life. Friends will be together in life, eating and drinking and celebrating, blood relatives, new brothers and sisters, our closest friends. There will be new work to do, new play, new adventure, new travel, new exploration, and one day I'll welcome my wife in. And then my daughter and my son, Soph Sophia and Bella, my two sweet little granddaughters. And and we will we will dance and sing and laugh and Dom my son-in-law will probably still have us roll in on the floor in laughter just like he does when we gather together over at my house here on earth every Sunday. See, all the things we love relationally about life is from God. And it's only just beginning. It'll get even better in the family of God.
All right. But what about marriage? You know, that's a question people always ask because didn't Jesus say we won't be married in heaven? You know, my wife Kathy uh used to not want to talk about heaven. Of course, I've been studying it for 35 plus years. And she would say, "Yeah, but we're not going to be married in heaven." And that made her sad, which is good, right? I mean, if she'd said, "You mean we're not going to be married in heaven?" It's all in the tone, right? So, it's good that it made her sad. But, but this whole idea that we're not going to be married in heaven comes from a a time that the Sadducees tried to play a trick on Jesus. Okay? They didn't even believe there was an afterlife. And so, they say to Jesus, "Hey, Jesus, a guy was married seven times. He had seven exes. Um, and then in the resurrection, you know, in in heaven, who's he going to be married to? And here's what Jesus said.
Jesus replied, "You're in error because you don't know the scriptures or the power of God." The power of God can unite people in ways that overcome all our relational concerns, all our relational squables, can even heal expouses. and and that's what God is going to do for all his children. And then Jesus says this, "At the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. They will be like the angels of heaven."
Right? Now, notice Jesus did not say that people will not be married. He said we will not He didn't say we will not be with our spouse or or or our loved ones, those closest to us. He said there won't be new marriages. They won't marry or be given in marriage. It doesn't say they won't be married or united or still have the same close intimate bond. In fact, the bond will be even deeper. But there won't need to be new marriages because our families will be complete. There there won't be procreation. So, there won't be new people. It will be the family of God completed. But many near-death experiencers saw their grandparents together uh in heaven. And now I don't know how God works out multiple healthy, loving marriages um and and how that all works except I don't think you need to worry about it because bathed in the love of God with the communication of heaven where nothing is wrong, it all works out. You know, some indie ears have have even said to me, "Nothing is forced and you can be with those that you want to be with and that those who want to be with you and all the jealousies and the relational struggles are gone." And so I say, if you're worried about it, trust God with this one. He's got it worked out.
Jeff and Tamara Olsen uh and their two boys were driving in an SUV going 75 miles an hour when something happened. Jeff doesn't remember what. Maybe he said he dozed off, but he drove off the shoulder of the road and then swerved left to try to pull back on, but before he realized what had happened, he had overcorrected and the SUV started to roll. Seven times, eight times it rolled, killing his wife Tamara and his little infant son Griffin. Only his uh younger son Spencer survived the crash. Jeff died but then was resuscitated to tell of his NDE. And I want to read this to you because it reminds us that in the life to come, the love we have for a spouse is not different in the life to come. It's greater. It's deeper. Here's what Jeff said.
"I was in a different place. This was a place of joy. It was familiar. It was home. And then I felt a familiar touch. I opened my eyes. Tamara was right next to me. She was real, too. I could feel her. She was alive. I could feel her familiar vibration even more powerfully than her physical presence. I looked at her. I could feel everything. She was crying and upset. Why? Where are we? Was the crash a bad dream or had I died? Had we both died? And where were the boys? I felt like I was in some kind of protective bubble. And I felt alive, not dead. You can't stay here, Tamara said. You have to go back. You can't be here. Why was she crying? You can't come. You cannot stay here. What does she mean I couldn't stay? I belonged there. You have to go. She was as real as ever. The thought of our boys raced through my head. Where were they? Were they here, too? If I stayed, would Spencer be left orphaned? Where was Griffin? You have to go, Tamara insisted. But I didn't want to go anywhere. It seemed odd to me that in this glorious bubble, she would be so upset. Was it heaven? I didn't know. But it made my earthly existence seem like a foggy dream. What what I was experiencing was far more real, far more tangible, far more alive than anything I had ever known. I pulled Tamara to me tightly. She was tangible as well. I even felt her wet wet tears on my skin. I kissed her. That was real. I smelled her hair. Not in the earthly sense, but with senses that seemed to be tenfold what we had experienced before. I didn't want to go, but I knew she was right. I was not meant to stay. I felt I had a choice, but something deep within me knew I had to get back to Spencer. I leaned forward, putting my forehead onto hers. Another tear fell from my eye and onto her eyelashes. I watched it roll down over her collarbone. I love you."
I know. you know, he came back and he raised Spencer uh as a as a single parent, but it's such a moving reminder and he holds on to that reminder. In fact, at another time, God allowed him to see his infant son in heaven. He had another near-death experience and he held his little infant son and he kissed his son and then he gave his son back to God because he knew. He knew in that moment because as God was holding him and he was holding his infant, he knew it's all going to be okay. Every relationship that's found in Christ lasts. It lasts.