Transcription
Wow, ultimate human! Hey guys, welcome back to the ultimate human podcast, where we go down the road of everything anti-aging, longevity, optimal health, biohacking, and everything in between. My guest today—actually, I don't think I should call her a guest. Should I call you the co-host? Yes, co-founder. Okay, all right. My co-founder, you’re the best thing that ever happened to me.
The best thing that ever happened to me—my wife, Sage Workinger, soon to be Sage Brea. In any case, today’s podcast is about the genetic mutation COMT. We spent a lot of time talking about, um, genetic methylation—you know, this process of how the body takes raw materials that enter the human body and converts it to a usable form—but we really actually take time to pull out one genetic mutation and explain it. So that if you’re listening and you have these types of characteristics and you’ve just accepted it as a consequence of aging, or a consequence of your lifestyle, or your career, or your diet, or what have you, it may not be a consequence of any of those things. True. It may simply be a consequence of missing raw material in the human body. The reason why we chose this gene is because someone to my right has this gene mutation; someone to my left does not, which is why we are like the opposite when it comes to personality. So let’s talk about what COMT, which stands for catechol-O-methyltransferase—that’s not important—what this gene really controls. It controls a few things. Number one: it downregulates a category of neurotransmitters called catecholamines. Now that might not sound like a big deal, but catecholamines are fight-or-flight neurotransmitters, and when they rise in the brain, they create a wakened state. If they rise to a very high level, they create a frightened state, an anxious state, or they could even create a fight-or-flight response. And so if we have impaired ability to regulate these, then there are certain consequences. And some of the other things that it affects are estrogen metabolism. We’re going to talk about estrogen.
Um, so let’s just talk about your journey with this gene mutation before we even knew that you had this genetic mutation. Like, what kind of things were going on? Oh, so many fun things! Such as: one weird topic that I don’t think I’ve ever—I’m 45 years old; I don’t think I’ve ever shared this with anybody—but before I started to supplement for my genetic breaks, of which I have many, um, I would fall asleep—well, I would try to fall asleep—and then as soon as my head hit the pillow, even if I was exhausted from the day and thought I’d sleep so well, my mind would turn on, and I would have show tunes—songs that I don’t really—yeah, I don’t even go to Broadway plays—but I’d have these show tunes just running through my head, or a song I heard on the radio, or—and I—and I would have that all throughout the day, too. And I just sort of thought that was normal, so I—till I started talking to people that don’t have this gene break, and they’re like, “You don’t have show tunes in your head at night? That’s weird.” Um, and then I—I just—I overthink everything. No, I know. No, I’m a worst-case-scenario person, which sucks when there’s a knock on the door, and you think it’s a murderer every time.
Yes, every time. Um, there was that meme that was so funny where it was like a knock on the door, and it’s either a murderer or maybe the positive-thinking book I ordered on Amazon. Yeah, that’s both you. That was me, too. Um, but I over—I’m a—I’m a perfectionist. I have—I have OCD, but you know, the more I read about OCD, it’s not like the light switch flipping on and off kind of OCD, but it’s—I like things in their place. I like very organized. I like my phone charger where my phone charger is supposed to be, and I hate it when somebody—to my left—yes—moves it out of place on a regular basis. Yeah. And you know, when we put some science behind what could be causing what is obsessive-compulsive disorder—like, what is OCD or compulsive neatness? I mean, when we lack organization in the mind, we crave organization in our outside environment because it’s one less thing that we have to deal with; one less disorganized thing we have to deal with. So a lot of people listening to this podcast will go, “Wow, I might have that gene mutation because when I go to study or work on a project, not only does the desk I’m working on have to be clean, but the room the desk is in has to be clean. It’s hard for me to work from home because if I see a pile of dishes in the sink, or I know there’s laundry to be done, I feel like I have to get those things done, even though that literally is not anything I need to deal with on that day.” Um, but once I take my vitamins, then I recognize what needs to be put first—need to get my emails done or phone calls made and not worry about the laundry. I can do that later. But it is hard for me; I actually have to work on that every day, whereas you don’t ever do that at all.
No, dishes don’t bother me ever; neither does laundry. In fact, not a lot bothers me. No. Yeah, so I don’t have that gene mutation. But when you have this gene mutation, the other one of the other consequences of these excess catecholamines is that as your environment quiets, your mind wakes up, and it wakes up like all night long. And so what does this mean? It means that your body’s tired, but your mind’s awake. And I always talk about the kind of things that are going through your mind are the most innocuous little thoughts—stupid stuff. It could be really important things, too. Like, I stress a lot about the things that need to get done or things I didn’t get done, where nothing is particularly pressing—like in your business or your career, your relationship. You might find yourself thinking about, “Did I get everything on my grocery list today? Um, did my outfit mesh my shoes?” You know, I definitely don’t care about that, but yeah, that—it’s never a worry. But these are always innocuous little thoughts that—that—that could easily wait until the next day, right? Um, they don’t need to be solved in that moment, but they’re keeping your mind awake. And so once we start to put some um, framework to understanding what—how is it that I’m body tired and mind awake? It’s that these excess catecholamines—this category of neurotransmitters—fight neurotransmitters—norepinephrine, epinephrine—or we also call adrenaline—um, and dopamine—and when we don’t downregulate these, the mind’s in—in a wakened state. Sometimes it’s difficult to understand that we don’t just create thought, but we also dismantle thought. We actually break thought down; if not, we would always be thinking the same things, or we’d always be in the same mood. Yeah. And so if we have a slow process of degrading thought—transferring catecholamines—I mean, transferring methyl groups from the category of neurotransmitters called catecholamines—if we’re slow at this, then the mind’s in an awakened state. And not only is the mind in an awakened state, but it’s thinking, and it’s running through this loop.
So like, what are some of the things that you do to address that? Because if somebody’s listening to this and they go, “Okay, great. I really identify with her. I’ve got the show tunes. I’ve got the waking mind at night. I’m a perfectionist. Have the perfectionism.” Yeah, it’s—I always say when—when I do a lab review, someone—and I help them understand their COMT break—I always try to show the good side of it because it really is a difficult gene break to have, uh, mentally. I always try to tell them that usually these are very successful entrepreneurs. They can’t work for anybody else. They have a hard time, you know, taking direction. They hate—we hate to be micromanaged. If you try to micromanage me, I’m out.
Oh yeah, I’ve tried. Yeah, it doesn’t work. Yeah. Um, so that’s why we have to work for ourselves. And so that’s a good sign because usually people become more successful that way. They’re also very dependable. They’re very reliable. Yes. They’re very thorough. Very thorough. Um, you know, they’re the kind of people you want in your—you want them in your group project when you’re in school, and you want them on your team when you own a business, right? If I look at somebody’s gene breaks when they start with uh, 10x Health, we—after three months when somebody’s with us—90 days—we actually give them the gene test; we provide that for them. And I like to look at employees’ genetic reports because it helps me understand them; it helps me understand what they’re thinking, what they’re doing, how they react to things, and I can just communicate with them better knowing their personality. You know, the other thing that I wanted to mention, um, before we give some specific supplement recommendations is, um, you know, early on when we were pulling your lab reports and looking at hormones, nutrient deficiencies, blood sugar control, one of the things that always would pop up was this mild elevation in estrogen. It always seemed to be slightly estrogen dominant. And you’re extraordinarily fit, lean, um, you know, amazingly fit.
Thank you. And um, I got abs for days. Actually, she does have abs for days. She has one of the greatest midsections any woman I’ve ever seen. But when I was going through a period of time where I was taking the wrong vitamins, you had this little—yeah, it was a bubble—um, which turns out is the estrogen band—right in my lower section—right below the belly button, moving laterally around to the flanks and then back around towards like the kidneys. And this particular area will drive women crazy. We’ve had so many women come into the clinic and talk about, “Gosh, I just don’t get it, guys. I’m not eating. I have a cup of black coffee in the morning. Um, I wake up fasted. You know, I go to Orange Theory for 55 minutes. I’ve been doing that five days a week for three months. I haven’t lost a single pound. Like, what is going on?” Yeah. And when you look at their hormones, you realize that they’re estrogen dominant, meaning their estrogen is out of ratio, so it’s retaining water in what we call the interstitial space—that space between cells—and it has a tendency to gather right below the belly button, laterally around the flanks. But you also look at this COMT—this COMT gene mutation—and you realize it plays a magnanimous role—a very important role—in estrogen metabolism. It sends estrogen down what’s called the E2 pathway to help it get—get rid of it. And if we can’t get rid of estrogen, especially women, it rises, and it causes this water retention. So these poor women that think they’re fat are actually just retaining water. Yeah. And so if you have some of these um, personality characteristics—very organized, um, you know, obsessively neat, detail-oriented—maybe people tease you about having OCD. You have this waking mind at night…
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You know what? Another symptom, too, is sensitivities to texture, sound—hate loud noises. She does. Yep. We had this bed in our house that you thought—I mean, you nerded out on it; you were like, “Those are the greatest things I’ve ever…” Yeah, all the hydraulic lifts and everything. No, the one with the loud—loud sound—the VII Bed. Oh, now, the VII Bed. The majority of our clients love it; like even you would lay on it—meditation bed, Med-Vibroacoustics, red light therapy, PMF—but we had it out in kind of the living room/den area of the house, and if somebody got on it, it—it reverberated through the entire condo. You hated it. I remember I hated it so much, but you thought I was being dramatic until Pete Vargas CH came over, and he hated it, too. That’s right. Remember? And you had the same—I was like, “See? Pete knows! Pete! I’m not—I’m not crazy.” And then you read about it—remember when you’re in LA, since I—I read about the hyperacuity—and then that was when it like put it all together. “Why does she get crazy?” You don’t like a lot of bright lights, loud music. I don’t like a lot of people, either, when it’s like too overwhelming, and there’s too many people talking and—right—I just—I have to back out. I love that. But she—you don’t. No. So knowing that you might have some of these characteristics, right? So somebody’s listening and they go, “Wow, um, I lay my head on the pillow; my mind wakes up. Um, I’ve got the show tunes and the active mind, and I don’t know what my hormones are, but I do seem to have this estrogen band, and because I have these other characteristics, maybe I have this gene mutation.” If you get tested for this gene mutation and you are positive for it, it’s not the end of the Earth. It’s actually a very common gene mutation. Makes so many things make sense. Yes. It’s really helpful to know. And so what have you done to mitigate it? Because now you’re sleeping better; your hormones are perfectly balanced; you clearly don’t have estrogen dominance anymore.
Um, I certainly don’t notice the level of obsessiveness that you—you know—you had before. So the big thing in my diet was that I had to get rid of green tea. Green tea—everybody’s like, “It’s so healthy.” It is; it’s—it’s a wonderful tea if you don’t have a COMT gene break. It’s the catechin in the green tea—so that’s what it—’cause I know then specifically you can’t have catechin—so a lot of catechin. So during COVID, I recognized that a lot of doctors were prescribing catechin for their patients and recommending elderberry as a supplement—able for COMT—boost your immune system—and if I had elderberry, catechin, and a green tea, you can guarantee that I’d have a panic attack and lose my mind, and definitely I would not sleep. There was—I remember looking back that I had a green tea because you were green tea obsessed for a while, and we were at the Ritz-Carlton one night with some patients. Yes. And you were like, “Oh, it’s good; you drink it right before you order your food.” Yes. Remember? I drank it, and I did not go to sleep until 8:00 in the morning. I remember that. I was like, “Why in the—” It’s not something I regularly drink, but—and I definitely don’t drink caffeine at night—but it affected me way more than if I had had a coffee. Yeah. And catechin, which is commonly found in—in almost all green tea and—and elderberry catechin supplements, if you have this genetic break, you need to be very cautious about taking catechin because it will make your mind race; it will—um—keep you up at night, almost like a stimulatory effect because it creates this wake-and-mind state, and it can significantly aggravate the estrogen metabolism—um—and further impair estrogen metabolism so that you become even more estrogen dominant and retain more fluid. Yeah.
Um, so if you think you might have this genetic mutation—I noticed that Sage’s routine is—she takes methylfolate—5-MTHF—um, for a while she used a supplement called SAMe, which—my—that was a—I always tell people when I started the protocol, it took me about three tries to get it right, right? Because we are learning still. I think we’ve figured it out for a lot of people, but if anybody ever doesn’t have the perfect reaction to the supplements, I always encourage them to try—to mix it up and to try something new. And the addition of SAMe—Dr.—kept telling me, “I think you’re going to really do well on it,” so I added it in, and that first three days—oh my gosh, I remember you were like the happiest person! You were like calling me, going, “I’m the happiest I’ve ever been! I feel great!” I literally felt like this huge weight was off my shoulders; I was so happy. I—I remember this; I called you—I was on 41 in Naples, and I called you—you sound like my wife. I don’t even—what’s going on, but I am so freaking happy right now! And it was the addition of that SAMe. But it’s not for everybody, so it’s very—we don’t ever put it on the first protocol for patients; we always, you know, see how they do with the other vitamin supplements and then potentially we add it. But um, SAMe was great. I take TMG—trimethylglycine—at night, which helps me methylate better. I take a sleep formula pill—our capsule—our formula is um, melatonin, magnesium, and theanine, which I love. And then my trick is to take a 5-methylfolate at night as well because I have an MTHFR break, so that helps me quiet my mind and get into bed. She powered through the night last night; I don’t even—I don’t think you got up once last night. It was glorious. It was glorious. Um, but you know, having this sleep routine with methylfolate, magnesium, theanine, and melatonin, um, you know, and the trimethylglycine during the day—which you can take during the day or at night—yeah, you usually take it in the morning—but the—the interesting thing is something as simple as regular supplementation to support a genetic deficiency—a nutrient deficiency—can make all the difference in the world in the entire trajectory of your life. So many of you that are listening to this have these tiny little anchors off your stern that you’ve accepted as a consequence of aging—it’s either weight gain or water retention or brain fog or poor focus and concentration or lack of short-term recall or waking mind at night or you get up at night to use the restroom and you can’t go back—go back to sleep. Yeah, miserable. Those things are not a consequence of aging; they are not something that you need to accept as a consequence of aging. These are generally a consequence of missing raw material—deficiency in the human body. And speaking of the raw materials—so the—the B12 specifically that I take—uh—now I have a yellow C677T, which means I inherited it from one parent, so I can get away with taking either methylfolate—I’m sorry—um, methylcobalamin—methylcobalamin—or I could take—yeah—which is a really good B12, or you can take two better forms, which is um, hydroxycobalamin or adenosylcobalamin. But if you have a red C677T, which means both parents passed on that genetic mutation or that genetic break to you, then you have to take hydroxycobalamin or adenosylcobalamin because those are the top two forms; you don’t really do as well on methylcobalamin, right? So you could put it to make it even more simple: if you have the choice over B vitamins, you could take a hydroxycobalamin or a cobalamin form and not have to worry about it. Yeah, because everybody can process—because everybody can process that. And it’s—it’s odd sometimes when we think, “Well, there’s four forms of B12; um, three of them occur naturally in nature; one of them is actually synthetic; we can’t stand it. It’s called cyanocobalamin.” That’ll turn me into a crazy person. Yeah. You need to get that out of your life if it’s in any of your supplements. But your sanity, your sleep, your lack of brain fog, your focus and attention, your deep sleep, your—um—non-racing thoughts, your organization could be as simple and as far away as some very, very simple nutrient deficiencies. So I really encourage you, you know, to get that test done for the COMT gene mutation if you have any of those symptoms and begin to supplement for those and possibly change the entire trajectory of your life. It will be a total game-changer. It’s changed my life significantly; it’s changed both of our lives and—and—and the lives of thousands of our patients, and I don’t drive them as crazy as I used to. This is—this is true. It actually has made our relationship a lot more common. I’m sure I have gene breaks that used to drive her crazy that aren’t anymore. Um, so if you’ve enjoyed this podcast, please don’t forget to like and subscribe below. This is the ultimate human podcast, and as always, that’s just science. If you haven’t had a chance to connect with me on the ultimatehuman.com, head over there now and sign up for my free newsletter and all of the exclusive content.