Transcription
We have $40 trillion of debt and it's growing. The only way we deal with that debt is to inflate it away. Period. End of story. There is no other. We don't grow out of $40 trillion of debt. We actually need inflation. That's what has to happen.
What normally happens is people lose control of confidence and then all of a sudden that inflation goes not to 4% but to 14 or 40%. And all the debt gets wiped out but all the wealth gets wiped out. We are playing in the trickiest game macroeconomics can play.
Welcome to All Things Markets. I am Anthony Scaramucci >> and I'm Mike Novogratz. >> Mike Novogratz. What a day today. I think this is a this is a big day. Okay. >> Monumentous day. >> Yeah. So, you know SpaceX's price of 135. Uh it's being indicated hasn't opened yet. This morning being indicated 170 175. Uh but tell us why it's such a monumental day, Michael. And also where do you think SpaceX is going to trade over the next 6 to 12 months?
>> Yeah, listen. So biggest IPO by a factor of three of all time, right? They raise 75 if the green show gets, you know, a trigger more than 75 versus say 25 billion for Aramco and some of the other giants. And so by far the biggest IPO, it's an IPO that brings in space and an in AI. And quite frankly, a lot of the valuation comes from the AI side. Um, and so it's just the two big two of the big themes of the market in one of the great bull markets, bubble, not bubble, AI, you know, technology shift. And Anthony, I worry because sometimes this is how great markets end. You know, the Palm IPO was right at the end of the >> I remember the Palm Pilot. Yep. >> Of the U internet bubble. And it just feels that way. I think Goldman, JP, the bankers did a very good job on this of, you know, they got three different groups of buyers. They've got the index buyers. We never had that before in an IPO. They changed the the rules. The SEC changed the rules. Uh S&P changed the rules to get these guys all into the indexes. So, those are buyers that just have to buy. Then they got the big institutions, the Black Rocks, the Fidelities, the TRO that want to buy because they need to be indexed to some form of, you know, these indexes are going to be um and then they have hedge funds and retail and he he was doing 15% for retail and so overs subscribed they cut backs allocations uh and so it should trade well today. I I tell you if the market opens at 170 and we close right on that 145 135 140 overall market's going to go lower right that won't that won't be great if we if we close anywhere 160 to 180 uh I think NASDAQ higher I mean this happened the same time as Trump is is is is solving the war uh getting us out of the for the 13th time, but it feels like this could be more real.
>> Okay. >> And so, uh, it's a big day. You better be sitting at your desk for the close because again, NASDAQ closes red, I'm going to sell more. NASDAQ closes green, I think the market goes up.
>> Yeah, listen, listen. It's a it's a it's a fascinating time, but this is also about American innovation and this is also about an idea that germinated uh right after 911 that we would commercialize space and then once we did space commercialization uh we would have data centers, we'd have the ability to use cellular phones around the world. Uh, and this was a big audacious idea that a lot of people rejected, myself included, by the way. I'll be the first. I mean, I'm a I'm a SpaceX ambassador today, but I had the opportunity through Antonio Gracias to to get it a lot earlier than today, and I missed it. So, you just got to own that. Um, but Mike, when I say it's a big day in America, it's a big day for big ideas. You've got Anthropic coming eventually. You've got other big companies uh that started as nothing companies. anthropic. I know it was a $5 billion valuation three or four years ago. It's going to be a trillion dollars. So bet on America. Still believe in America. Listen, this is a great day for America and it's a great day for innovation and technology. It's a great day for venture capital and Silicon Valley. You know, venture is a important part of what the secret sauce of America is. It's people willing to take bets on things that might not feel like a lot for five, six, seven, 10 years. I mean, I made my SpaceX bet in 2013, uh, you know, through Antonio Gracias the first time. You know, they were selling employee shares and it was really my brother-in-law who was a the guy that ran TED who was just banging. He's like, "No, this could be one of the biggest companies in the world." And I was like, I was so worried about the Mars thing. Oh, he's going to waste all his money trying to go to Mars. That seems so science fiction. I did it because I already had money and my brother-in-law and my friend Jeff Low were pushing me. And so I said, "All right, I'll do it." And I was actually mocked by one of my ex-girl. It was probably, you know, a little less than a percent of my net worth. He was like, "No, this is a 3% idea, 4% idea." And I was like, "Yeah, you're crazy."
>> To me, it's about investing, right? This show is about all things markets and investing and uh, you know, and the feedback on >> you got to have some portion of your portfolio in early stage venture. >> No question. It's hard to get access to the right things. And you know, if you look at the venture funds, if you were in benchmark, every fund, you're not working. You're cook you're cooking with gas. There are plenty of venture funds that have been dogs, >> right? >> And so, even within venture, in each venture portfolio, they have a thing called power law. Two or three, sometimes one position drives the whole fund. Uh, that's the same in venture. there not that many great venture funds and it's you know those are the ones you got to get into.
>> You know I want to talk about this corporate governance issue which is a correlary to this. Um Warren, Senator Warren sent a letter to Paul Atkins our SEC chair demanding a delay in the SpaceX IPO. She said that there's significant risk to ordinary investors and their retirement savings. And I just want to go over what her core concern was is the uh governance. She's basically saying that he has 10 times the voting power of the public shares. This is actually similar type of structure to what Mark Zuckerberg put in place for the Facebook IPO many years ago, now known as Meta. And of course, that had staggering success for retail investors. But I guess the the question here um is are these concerns valid? I mean, these were also raised by the uh American Federation of Teachers, New York City controller. Listen, I when we did Galaxy's IPO, uh, I thought about it, right? Brian Armstrong has that same, you know, super share. So, Brian's going to control Coinbase as long as he wants. Um, and I didn't. I went with the old-fashioned, you know, you vote your shares. And to me, it just felt more fair and more democratic. Um, and so I I did it kind of ideologically. Um, listen, these companies have had spectacular success and these all three of those guys, well, I would put Brian in the same camp yet as as Mark and Elon are, you know, 10 in a century entrepreneurs. And so it worked there. Does it make sense intellectually? No. You could have a guy who's going off the deep end and he he controls a company when he only owns 4% of it. It's interesting how much how little the Dolan zone of MSG. If I had my perplexity or you know Claude, I'd ask right now what percentage they actually own, but they've got the super voting shares. And again, I don't like it, but it it has worked in a lot of cases. You know, I'm going to give the other side of the argument, right? You know, sometimes uh if you have a lot of control and it's not a democracy, it may be better for shareholders. Warren Buffett, uh, there are some funds that you and I both know that gated in 2008 against the wishes of the investors, and many of those funds did incredibly well. You're also you're saving people from the uh fear demons in their personalities when it comes to investing. So, uh, should should investing be a democracy and should it be by committee or or is it sometimes better when there's some independent thought? It's it's a great question. Listen, I always said investing is a lonely man business, right? Imagine you're sitting next to Stan Duckmore has advisors, but if he has to win two two out of three of them to actually make a trade, you know, it's about learning how to trust yourself. The whole journey of investing is how do you have an algorithm that makes sense to you and then how do you manage your fear so you learn to trust yourself like that is the journey and so from an investing point of view I think it's a really lonely business and it shouldn't be by committee um from a public government's perspective there needs to be some checks on uh, you know bors are there for a reason and and so listen, it's it's a it's a hard question Um my bias and because I did it with our company was to if I can't convince a board that I'm right then maybe I'm not right.
>> I'm in that camp sort of I I don't think these investing needs to be by a democracy. uh one of the best Abraham Lincoln lines as he was going around the cabinet Michael and he said okay how many nays how many I's he okay there are nine nays and there's one I and the eyes have it, you know, meaning he was making the decision didn't matter to people but sometimes you got to be both both ways on that um I want to go to inflation the president likes inflation apparently he said he said to a press gaggle that he loves inflation >> I love the inflation I'm >> sure he probably made a mistake there a little bit of a of a of a gap there. Um he does say something that I actually do believe. He's saying that inflation will come down like a rock.
>> It's going to come down like a rock >> after the Iran war ends. Uh what do you think, Michael? Up against this though is real wages are declining. If you look at the data, inflation has outpaced year-over-year wage gains for the second straight month. So, you know, and and all the while consumers, this is a great land of consumerism. All the while the consumers are uh still spending. So uh square that circle for us.
We have $40 trillion of debt and it's growing. The only way we deal with that debt is to inflate it away. Period. End on the story. There is no other. We don't grow out of $40 trillion in debt. So, we actually need inflation and we've got to in some ways run three to 4% inflation, convincing the market and consumers we're going to keep that close to two and each year we don't keep it to two but don't lose everybody's faith. You know, we're eradicating 2% of debt. If you could run 4%, if me and you do, we could run 4% inflation for the next 10 years and but have that two target and have the markets believe we were going to get to two. We'd have 10 years of 2%, you know, whacking away at that debt, deflating it away and 2% that's 10 years. That's 10% in or 20% in 10 years plus compounding. It's probably 30% in 10 years. You'd have less debt, less net debt. And so like that's that's what has to happen. What normally happens is people lose control of confidence and then all of a sudden that inflation goes not to 4% but to 14 or 40%. And all the debt gets wiped out and but all the wealth gets wiped out. Right.
>> Yeah. >> And so it's a really we are playing in the trickiest game macroeconomics can play. And we had a chance eight years ago to change that debt to GDP trajectory. We just didn't get it done. And you know, listen, guys like Ray Dio think it's too late at this point. Like there's there's no coming back. I mean, that's Scott Besson didn't think that. He said, I got a plan. It's called 333. And he has failed miserably on his plan so far. Um, right. The deficit is larger than it was when we started. Uh, inflation is higher. Uh and so but he Scott was right. That's what we need to do. The question will there be political will to do it?
>> So so up against all this we know there's no political will to do it. You know the president is uh the president once said to me something which I'll share with you as I al tell people. He said to me ah you know you're a Wall Streeter. I said yes I am. He goes you're fiscally conservative and socially liberal right? I said yes I am. He said well my base is the opposite. I said, 'What do you mean?' He goes, "My base is social conservatives, but they're fiscally liberal. They want the benefits from the government like Medicare and Social Security." And I won't never I will never touch them during my presidencies. Now, he's had two terms now, six years roughly of of being president. Uh, he's he's responsible now for 28% of the country's national debt in the five and a half, six years that he's been president. We learned from the New York Times this week, Michael, that uh we're going to run out of social security money by 2032, which sucks for you and me, Michael, because I think that's the year you and I can actually get social security. Uh, but uh and by the way, not that you and I need it. It probably should be indexed to income, but that's a whole other topic. But what do you say about that? Okay, we have lower fertility. Immigration rates are plummeting. We've reduced payroll taxes from Donald Trump's big beautiful spending bill and we have a demographic reality that more and more baby boomers are retiring with fewer workers. So the pyramid is going upside down. Michael, how concerned should you be about this up against that inflation story and the $40 trillion of current debt that we have?
what Chuck Schumer told me 10 years ago and five years ago and two years ago, uh, same story. He said, "Listen, everyone in Congress knows how to fix Social Security. We will when there's a crisis, and there are two there are two levers. You means test and you move the age for the people that haven't been born yet." So, you're not moving the age for 50 year olds. you're moving the age for five year olds, negative one year olds, you know, maybe you start at 20 year olds. Uh, and that those pivots save Social Security. So, you have two levers. No one wants to use the levers. We'll use them when there's a crisis. But he's like, it ain't happen until there's a crisis. Now, I'm not saying Chuck's 100% right on that. That feels right. And so, we should worry there. We are going to run out of money. I remember in literally in in when I was 18 years old in social studies class, I had a really smart teacher, Mr. Levy, and shout out Mr. Levy because he was awesome. Uh, and he talked about this and that was, you know, 1988 83. Uh, so 40 years ago, we kind of knew the these the two unfunded liabilities of the government, Social Security and Medicare, were much bigger than the debt of the government. And it's going to come home to roost. We're both worried about this. This is sort of like stuff that nobody worries about. The market's not worried about it. Ray Dallio talks about it, but you'd have to be uh an ostrich with your head in the sand if you were not worried about the over clouding risks of something like this.
Okay, we're now we're now into the bull bear cycle. All right, so I'm going to say something. You say buller bear. Okay, you ready? >> Yep. >> All right. Wars signals a rate height at his first press conference next week. >> He's not gonna do that. No chance. >> Okay. So, I'm bearish on that. No chance he does that. Okay. SpaceX. You hear that? That's a drum roll, Michael. SpaceX, it closes above two trillion on its first day of trading. You told us what could happen. What do you think is going to happen? >> I think yes, it does. Okay. So, I'm bullish on that as well. Well, I think it goes over two trillion. Makes Elon Musk the first trillionaire. Congratulations to him and his family. Okay. War in Iran. Is it over by the end of June? There's only 30 days in June, Michael. So, be careful when you answer this. Okay. >> It all depends on you determine over. I think we will be nervous about Iran through the year. like how many ships have to pass through the straight arm moves before you're you're not puckering up every time you you're you're going through. Do we really know who's in charge of Iran? Right. We we wiped out a ton of the mullas. The IRGC has been certainly the the the leadership has changed dramatically and so I think Iran is going to be at least on simmer through through year end.
>> Okay. So I'm super bearish on this one. I think this this lasts throughout Trump's term. I think you're going to have to have a uh I think the uh unfortunately the Ukraine war and this war, they go to the duration of Trump's term. You'll need a next president to solve these. Uh my opinion. Okay. The Clarity Act. This is something that we've had uh lots of conversations for in all things market. Clarity Act. Where are we Michael? Clarity Act. September. And this will get us crypto viewers because yes,
>> I spent 10 hours Wednesday. I met with eight different senators, congressmen, left and right. And here are the positives. Everyone left and right wants to get this done. They have worked. Remember the way bills get passed. All 100 senators don't pay attention to every bill. In this case, it's about eight from the Democratic side and six from the Republican side. And it's their staffs who have worked tirelessly for 18 months. I mean, they are so sick at talking about these issues. And both issues are very, you know, they're it's we're down to three issues in a giant bill. And I think they're all solvable, but they're they're not, you know, they're they're at impass right now. One is ethics. Normally, you wouldn't need an ethics provision in the in any kind of bill, right? We have the imalments called in the clause in the constitution that stops the president from profiting off, you know, the presidency. We have, you know, laws all over the books on insider trading or fraud. But the Democrats feel rightfully or wrongfully that this administration has personally benefited a ton and crypto has been one of the avenues they've used it. And so they're like, you got to give us politically at least something that says this isn't good. We know the Democrats know you can't stop the president from doing anything he wants to do. Uh so they're not gonna they're not going to write something in the law that's that's a direct assault on him. and they came up with what looked like a workable solution where just like in the Lakeland Riley case uh you allow the state attorney generals to sue the US attorney general if they don't think the US attorney general is doing their job. That seems to be where we should end up. you know, the White House is pushing back on anything with ethics and and we'll see because that's gonna that's going to be one of the things someone's going to give on that, but that's right where the the 50 yard line is that you have the ability to prosecute people like tornado cash, you know, which is a moneyaundering spinner. Should the guy who built it be liable? Crypto community says, "No, no, it's just code. You can't hold the guy responsible for the code and there are really laws to go after bad actors. And so it's it's how much weaponry do you want to give prosecutors and the police? And you know when I was down there there was tons of police and prosecutors and DAs like both sides are bringing all the groups down here. Um and so that those are really the two issues. Uh there's a couple smaller ones that I think will just get worked out and so we'll see. I'm still positive, but I would I would have gone from 8515 three weeks ago to 6040 and and it's well I think it's going to get done is because they really wanted to get done. Uh the Democrats do and the Republicans. But it's a we're at a weird time here, right? Like we went from Trump picking PY to be the head of the intelligence community. >> Yep. The DNI head. Yep. >> DNI head. A a a horrific pick in lots of ways. No experience. already has, you know, not engendered himself any friends, uh, as the head of, uh, you know, housing and felt a ton of heat. And then he pivots and puts Jay Clayton, who I think everyone's going to feel pretty comfortable with, right? >> He'll get he'll get Senate confirmation for sure. >> And Jay will be a great head. You know, he's a he's a world-class guy. He's got integrity. He's, you know, like everyone has to play politics a little once they're in the political seat. But I know who Jay Golfs with. Uh, and I know who he hangs with. And there's no way he's going to behave horribly, break laws, and think he can still be friends with his friends. And so, like, I I would be shocked if Jay Clayton does anything different than >> Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. >> I'm I'm totally with you on that. You know, I All right. So, I I I'm going to say that the Clarity Act does not pass. So you're at 60%. I sort of feel like the wind is out of it. I think some of the things that the president does has sufficiently upset the opposition where they just don't want to give them the win here. Uh uh with that in mind, do you think Bitcoin can reclaim 70k by the end of July? I'll go first and say uh that it will. I just think because it's burnt out and the sentiment is so negative that any incremental buying will lift it through 70. What do you What do you think? Yeah, I would say 7030 it gets back up. A lot depends on >> I mean I think listen if clarity happens I definitely think it does. If clarity doesn't happen and we know that by the end of the and we listen we'll know by July 10th if this is happening or not, right? I mean there's >> Tell me why why is that why is that a big date in your mind? >> Well because at one point the Congress is over. They all go home for the summer, you know, and and there's a very tight calendar. You got to get John Thun to put you on the on the floor. He's only going to do that if you got 60 votes. And it's not 60 at 65. No one wants to be the 60th vote. We know there are two Dem Republicans that probably will not vote for this. Uh Josh Josh Holly and uh uh Ran Paul. And so you got to get 15 Democrats, you know, and and there are a couple key Democrats that, you know, again, there's only eight of them that have really worked on this bill. Uh and so the other 49 or whatever, 41 Democrats are looking at those eight. And so that's why it's so important and it can and it can change like this.
>> All right, listen. I'm I'm with you. Two quick two quick ones. US team US is it gonna make it out of the group stage in the World Cup? >> My wife and daughter are out there in LA today. They're they're geared up. The dog has got Team USA gear on. I think we're definitely getting out of the group stage. Uh we got a good team. >> Talk your heart now. I don't want you talking your heart, Michael. Get your heart out of it. I want you talking your I want brain involved with >> We always outplay our skill envelope in the World Cup. We just we just rise for the moment. And this is on our home turf and this is probably our most talented team. >> I'm gonna say yes. Not because of their talent as but as much as their grit and the fact that they're playing in front of the hometown crowd. So that's what I think was going to happen. Okay. So we're both bulls on that. >> Nicks. >> Nicks. >> All right. What's going to happen there, Michael? >> Well, first I got to tell you my terrible story that I've been sharing Nick's tickets for 10 years with a guy. Yeah, we pay half the season. He pays half. I usually get half the playoffs. this year he decides to keep most of the playoffs in a in a move I just still can't understand. And so instead of sitting behind Taylor Swift where I was destined to sit next to Paul Jones in what all my friends who were in that stadium said the single greatest sporting event they had ever been to times five. I was listening to it on radio coming back to DC. The flight got delayed. I'm in a car and I listen to the last two quarters on radio coming home from White Planes. Uh, I I I I I'm worse than you, man. I I went to game three, saw the loss, spoke at the Super Return event on Wednesday in Berlin, and I set my alarm, Michael, because I was so tired. I blew through the alarm and only saw the last 30 seconds of the game to see the AG, you know, the the tip in. That's it. It's all I saw. So, anyway, happens. But, um, >> I it's either going to be >> closed it out in San San Antonio, though. That's the question. >> I you know, so you you kind of want them to win just so it's the stress is gone, but man oh man, it would be fun to close it out in New York and damn it, I'm going to be in that. I don't care if I'm in the top row. I'm going to be in that stadium if they're >> Yeah, I want them I I think I'm going to say that they're going to do it in San Antonio and I want them to do it there because I I'm starved for this championship and what I'm worried about this San Antonio team is very very tough, Michael. They were up 29 points. They lost that game as much in terms of the mistakes they were making. They could have dribbled out in the fourth quarter. I don't know why they were taking shots like that. >> They're young. They're, you know, Yeah, they and they literally, it was bizarre. >> That's another big thing. They're young. They got young legs. Okay. And so I just want this thing. >> Listen, we all would I'd like them to close it out and and uh >> I'm I'm hoping they close it out. I'm out here in right now and I'm literally debating cuz last I I watched one of the games in the back of Stephen Talkhouse. It's a bar and we had a great crew and it was a ton of fun. But I was like, can you afford not to be in New York City the night they win the championship? Uh, because I tell you what, even my car pulls up to my house right as the game ends and Tribeca is not, you know, the crazy part of New York City in terms of bars, but there are some great bars there. There's Puffies, there's Walkers, and crowds are pouring out of those bars and cheering in the streets in Tribeca. And I was like, whoa. Uh, yeah. Saturday night is going to be lit if the New York Knicks wouldn't ship.
>> Hey, listen. Let's see if it happens. All right, this is a last question, business question. I want you to put on the hat of Michael Sailor. I want you to channel your Michael Sailor brain. Okay, >> laser eyes. Hold on. Laser eyes. Okay. Okay. You got your laser eyes on. Between May 26th and the 31st, he sells 32 Bitcoin for a measily $2.5 million. Then he turns around on June 9th and he buys $101 million worth of Bitcoin, $1,550 coins. What What is the sailor strategy in all this? Channel him for us for a second. So, Michael has been walking himself away from dollar-based debt to micro strategy based prefers. Uh, so he never could be forced to stop out, right? He's got prefers that even have a coupon that he can he can unset. But to keep the preferred game going, he's paying 10 and a half% 10% depending on which we in in dollar returns. And so he would either if if Micro Strategy stock is trading at a premium, which it still is, he can sell Micro Strategy stock and pay those dollar returns with the proceeds from that. He can also always sell Bitcoin. And I think what he was trying to do, and I think it was a terrible mistake, was tell the markets, hey, I'm not scared to sell Bitcoin. Don't worry about my preferreds. There's no way you're losing money on these preferred, right? That he wants to to build confidence in that fixed income part of the the curb. And I think he thought by selling some Bitcoin, he proved to the market that he'd do it. Uh I don't think it was a good idea because I'd rather have him sell Micro Strategy stock. They're used to that. and used that money to pay the preferred, >> right? >> Uh he took a big chunk of his reserve, cash reserve that he had to pay future dividends and he and he and he used it to in advance uh retire one of his converts, right? Because the dollar converts have to get paid back in time in dollars. They're not perpetual. They have a date. Those are normal fixed income bonds and they're way below the strikes. And so he's got to chip away at those converts. I would rather see him do it with Micro Strategy stock. Think I think he was I think he and we'll see if he does anything else. Now my guess is he didn't like the reaction he got. Uh let's Michael believes everything he says. He believes Bitcoin is one of the great inventions ever made and that because these governments won't be able to stop spending money. It's just a matter of time before we get the next cycle and the next momentum and this thing is still destined for a million. Like I I think if you put Michael in a lie detector, he would pass it. I think if you ask a lot of market guys like me, I think he's right. Right. We're always probability basing things. We're not we're not religious. He's religious. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, I mean, you know, the other thing is he was able to buy these the these coins. Some people think that the cascade of selling happened because of that, and I'm not necessarily saying that's true, but he he was able to buy >> I would not I I don't see Michael as I I don't agree with that, but he did get the coins at a lower price. So, listen, I'm a I'm a I'm a full disclosed, we are a uh STRC holder. I think we own some micro micro strategy also or or strategy in our ETF. Final question, Michael. What made you smile this week, I'm gonna say for me, I brought my 12 and 8year-old to game three? And even though that we lost that game, the intensity and the excitement that they were feeling as a parent did make me smile. That was a big big day for me to see them. Hopefully, it'll be a core memory for them. And what made you smile this week?
>> Yeah, listen, we had a viewing party for game three. Uh, I fundamentally believe the only good parties are multigenerational. And so we had 18-year-olds there. The the son of one of my friends just turned 18. He brought a bunch of his friends. We had 20s to 30s there. We had my group of friends there and probably a hundred of us on the top of Nine Orchard Hotel and we were going crazy. Uh, of course, same result you saw, but just how the Knicks have bonded this city. Every bar is a viewing party. Every, you know, age group, religion, race. I mean, I love these. You know, my mayor is Muslim. You know, my my bagel is is Jewish. And, you know, Nixon five kind of stories. >> MY MAYOR'S STILL MUSLIM. >> MY BAGEL'S STILL JEWISH. >> THE POPE'S ON OUR SIDE. Uh Matt, this has been the most unifying thing New York City has had quite frankly since 911.
>> Mhm. Yeah. Listen to me. I'm with you the whole way. I hope they make it. Um as Jaylen Brunson channeling Kobe Bryant, >> you're up too old. >> Job's not finished. Job finished. >> I don't think so. >> It ain't over, man. Yeah, it was a good nice win, but we got a job to finish. And I I love I love that winners mentality. It's not over yet. Not even close. >> He's on fire right now. I mean, just his his he hasn't had a bad interview. >> Yep. He's the uh he's the new Derek Jeter of this town, man. All right, Michael, that's a wrap for this week. All things market. So, we'll see you guys next week. Thanks to everybody for listening. By the way, Michael and I love your feedback. We are listening. We are also reading all the comments. So, send them in. It helps us make a decision on our subject material. So, thank you guys and we'll see you next week.