DEBATE: Which Religion Portrays Jesus with More Respect, Islam or Christianity? | PODCAST

Are we live? Hello everyone. Welcome and welcome back to the free seek and share truth conference featuring modernday debates. Yeah. So we really hope you guys have appreciated this apologetics, apologetics, and evangelism conference and that we're able to educate you, equip you, and help you guys to seek and share truth together better. So I'm L and I run Liso Elohim on YouTube as well as seek and share truth conferences. And my husband is Eric. I run Your Brother in Christ on YouTube, the YouTube channel called Your Brother and Christ where I do open call-ins. We do open debates with Muslims who call in, focusing mostly on outreach to Muslims and just having a decent conversation. Yeah, we definitely love being able to engage with different worldviews. So, we really appreciate all of you who are here, whether you're Christian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, agnostic. I know we had a whole lot of people that had signed up for this and so we appreciate each of you watching online and in person. And so, uh, thank you for this opportunity. This is all kind of based on the idea that um according to uh scriptures which Christians, Jews and Muslims all affirm that uh God says when we seek him, we'll find him when we seek him with all of our heart. And um to call upon the Lord your God and he will show you great and wonderful things that we have not yet known. And so we do that each on our individual channels, but we also love partnering with each of you guys to get to have these conversations, to get to have these interactions, to get to hear from uh lots of different people. And so thank you again for this opportunity. And um if you guys have not signed up for the free Seek and Share Truth Conference, but you want to see everything that we've been doing, all the fun stuff we've done the past three days, today and then the next two bonus days coming up Tuesday, Wednesday, make sure to check out the description uh for the links to the channels and to the tickets. They're free. And uh yeah, we hope you guys are able to benefit from those for many time. So with that said, uh we're going to hand it over to Dr. James Coons of Modern Day Debate. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you folks. Thrilled to be here with you. Thank you for your Thank you for your warm welcome. We're very excited about the second debate. What I'm going to do is introduce the speakers and then we're going to jump into it. So, it's the same format as last time. This time, Daniel will go first though. Hence, I will introduce Daniel first. Daniel Hikichu Hakikachu was born in Houston, Texas. He graduated from Harvard University where he majored in physics and minored in philosophy. He is also the founder of Muslim Skeptic where he is dedicated to debates defending traditional Orthodox Islam. Thank you very much, Daniel, for being here and glad to have both of you guys here. Dr. David Wood is a former atheist who became a Christian after examining the evidence for Christianity. He has a PhD in philosophy, but he found out that YouTube is more fun than reading Aristotle. So now he's a YouTuber. David, thank you for being here as well. We're going to jump right into it, folks, with the opening statements. As I mentioned, the first one is 20 minutes. That's from Daniel. Daniel, the floor is all yours for your opening. It's not on the screen. Oh yes. Okay. The projector. Oh gosh, I forgot to turn that on. Okay. This will actually be a good opportunity for me to let folks know about the Q&A. We do want to make sure that during the Q&A, anybody who had not gotten to ask a question during the last Q&A, but was in line, we'd like to have you come to the front of the line. And that way if you were standing in line and you're like, "Oh, I didn't get to ask it." You'll get to ask it for sure this time. And then we'd also like to have two lines. So, one thing I just want to be absolutely sure is that this is actually gone. So, let me just do a one last click because I was supposed to hear a beep, but we'll give it a minute. What we will do is have those who have a question for David stand in this row on this side of the room and those who have a question for Daniel if you can go to the middle row. Perfect. Excellent. And then we are going to try to have it approximately alternate. So a question that's for David then a question that's for Daniel and just keep going back and forth so that way it's roughly balanced with that. Thank you very much Daniel. kicking it over to you for your opening.

Alhamdulillah. Which religion respects Jesus? Islam or Christianity? The answer is undoubtedly Islam. And the simple but definitive reason for this is that Islam does not venerate those who insult Jesus and vilify him. If you look at all the religions in the world, there are only two religions that are positive about Jesus. Islam and Christianity. And there's only one religion that actively hates Jesus, and that's Judaism. Despite this fact, many modern Christians like David, especially in the US, have a special place of love and veneration for Judaism. They love Judaism so much that they even work to serve Israel. Even as Israel commits genocide, killing Muslims and Christians and bombing Christian churches. So, how could it be said that these Christians that they respect Christ? Is it respectful to Jesus to love and serve those who hate him? Christian theology on the Jewish nation has drastically evolved over the past 70 years. Prior to the 20th century, Christian theology across denominations were very clear-cut about the status of Jews as cursed for rejecting the Messiah. Theologians asserted that Christ was the only path to salvation and Christians had a missionary duty to call Jews to Christ in order to save their souls. In the 20th century, these doctrines were abruptly and radically reformed to embrace Jews and venerate them as God's chosen. The role of the Jewish Pharisees in murdering Christ is also downplayed or completely revised. And to add insult to injury, Jews can now attain salvation without being required to believe in Jesus at all, which obviates any need for evangelizing them. This is the difference between Christianity and Islam. Islam does not consider those who insult, vilify, and attempt to murder Christ to be God's chosen. Furthermore, Islam does not extend a get out of jail free card and promise salvation to the rejectors of Jesus. Quite the opposite, Islam from the beginning has always held that accepting Jesus Christ as the Messiah is one of the requirements for salvation. In this way, Islam is unique among world religions in its respect for Jesus. Whereas modern Christianity propagates the ultimate disrespect, if not contempt for the person of Christ. In this brief presentation, I first plan to share the Jewish theological position on Jesus Christ. Then we'll go on to the classical Christian theological doctrines on Judaism. Finally, I'll outline how modern Christians have mutilated these doctrines for political purposes in an open and unapologetic affront to Christ. To understand the Jewish view of Jesus, one must grasp the Talmud's role in as Judaism's primary religious text. Modern Jewish apologists claim the Talmud is merely a collection of rabbinic opinions open to acceptance or rejection. But this is entirely false. The Jewish belief is that Moses received the Torah on Mount Sinai. This was in two parts, the written and the oral Torah. The core part of the oral Torah is the Talmud. This Talmud is considered as divine as the written Torah. In fact, the Talmud has an even higher status than the written Torah. The Talmud itself says this in Eruvin 21b and elsewhere. Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz, who wrote one of the most authoritative translations of the Talmud, wrote in his introduction, quote, "If the Bible is the cornerstone of Judaism, then the Talmud is the central pillar. No other work has had a comparable influence on the theory and practice of Jewish life." Now that we understand that Jewish authorities consider the Talmud to be like a divine pillar at the center of Judaism, what does the Talmud say about Jesus? First of all, the Talmud claims that the Jewish community executed Jesus. In Sanhedrin 43a, we read, "On Passover Eve, they hung the corpse of Jesus the Nazarene after they killed him by the way of stoning. And a crier went out before him for 40 days, publicly proclaiming, 'Jesus the Nazarene is going to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited people to idol worship, and led the Jewish people astray. Anyone who knows of a reason to acquit him should come forward and teach it on his behalf.' And the court did not find a reason to acquit him, and so they stoned him and hung his corpse on Passover Eve." Here the Talmud is saying that stoning Jesus and hanging his corpse was a good deed because Jesus was guilty of practicing sorcery and idolatry and for leading Jews astray. The Talmud also says that Jesus is currently being tortured in hell. In Gittin 57a, we read about how Jesus is raised from the dead. Anakalo said to him, "What is the punishment of Jesus in the next world?" Jesus said about himself, "He's punished with boiling excrement." As the master said, anyone who mocks the words of the sages will be sentenced to boiling excrement. And this was his sin as he mocked the words of the sages. So according to the Talmud, in the afterlife, Jesus is being severely punished in hell in boiling feces. The Talmud also targets the blessed mother of Jesus by mocking the virgin birth. This is detailed by Peter Schaefer, Princeton professor of Jewish studies in his book Jesus in the Talmud, published by Princeton University Press. Schaefer highlights how the Talmud goes to great lengths to mock Jesus and his mother, accusing her of adultery with a Roman soldier and covering it up by claiming a virgin birth. These claims appear in Talmud, Shabbat 104b, Sanhedrin 67a, and elsewhere. I strongly urge Christians to read Schaefer's work to grasp the intense hatred Judaism's most holy text shows towards Jesus. This burning hatred for Jesus is not something limited to past scripture. By the way, contemporary rabbis in Israel and America continue to teach these Talmudic attacks on Jesus and his mother. Christians might also like to know that Jewish law holds that it is a holy act to insult Jesus and his mother. Islam, by contrast, considers insult to Jesus or his mother as an act of blasphemy that merits capital punishment. Christians, like David Wood, of course, have no problem with Jews insulting Jesus. He thinks that a that's a perfectly acceptable act of free expression. But David has a big problem if Muslims put an end to blasphemy against Jesus. So who actually respects Jesus more? In Judaism, it's also considered a holy act to spit on the followers of Christ and to even kill them as idolaters. The Talmud gives a general command to kill Gentiles. It says, "Kill the best of Gentiles. Smash the head of the best of snakes." But Maimonides, one of the biggest Jewish religious authorities in history, makes this command specific to Christians who are referred to as idol worshippers. Quote, "We may not draw up a covenant with idolaters who will establish peace between them and us and yet allow them to worship idols. As Deuteronomy states, do not establish a covenant with them. Rather, they must renounce their idol worship or be slain. It is forbidden to have mercy upon them as Deuteronomy states, do not be gracious to them." Judaism not only prohibits Christians from practicing their religion but actually requires slaying Christians if political circumstances allow. Islam by contrast allows Christians to practice their religion as protected people or dhimmi. Again, Christians like David will rant and rave about the dhimmi system in Islam but will remain meek little mice before rabbinic Judaism which is literally calling for Christian mass extermination. And a final point, because Judaism rejects Jesus as the Messiah, Jews are waiting for another Messiah, which by definition is a false messiah and the Antichrist. Religious Jews are actively working to build their third temple in Jerusalem in order to summon the false Messiah. Meanwhile, Christians like David Wood are actively involved in public relations for this Zionist cause. Please explain to us, David, how you can respect Jesus, but you can also support a people and a state that are actively involved in summoning the Antichrist. Aren't you in reality a prostitute for the literal Antichrist? Yet you pretend to be someone who respects Jesus Christ. I'm sure we'll discuss this more later in the debate, but for now, let's move on to the classical Christian understanding of Judaism.

Prior to World War II, Christians based their theological position on Jews in light of how they are depicted in the New Testament in passages such as Matthew 27:25, which describes Jews gathering to witness the crucifixion. The verse reads, "Then the people as a whole answered, 'His blood be on us and our children.'" This verse was interpreted by church fathers like John Chrysostom as self-declared Jewish guilt for killing God, which justified collective punishment of all Jews across generations. In John chapter 8, Jesus is addressing a group of Jews who are accusing him of being demon-possessed. Jesus tells them that they're plotting to kill him and that their father is not Abraham, but the devil. Quote, "You are of your father, the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires." Many passages in John describe how the Jews persecuted Jesus and even stoned him. In 1 Thessalonians 2, Paul writes, quote, "The Jews who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displeased God and oppose all men. The wrath of God has come upon them at last." Overall, the New Testament presents Jews as the central antagonist to Christ in his message. The early church fathers recognized this and wrote extensively condemning Jews for committing deicide. In his book, Contra Faustus, Augustine remarks, "Not by bodily death shall the ungodly race of carnal Jews perish. Scatter them abroad, take away their strength, and bring them down, O Lord." Early Hippolytus wrote his treatise against the Jews in which he says the Jews had been darkened in the eyes of your soul with a darkness utter and everlasting. In Luke 19:27, Jesus says, "But as for these enemies of mine who did not want me to rule over them, bring them here and slaughter them in my presence." That's Jesus, by the way. Church father John Chrysostom claimed that Jesus here was referring to the Jews. Many more examples can be given from Ignatius to Origen to Tertullian. Now, let's briefly survey the classical Christian theological positions on three issues. One, the status of God's covenant with Israel and the Jews. Two, the salvation of Jews. And three, the necessity to convert Jews. Historically, the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestant churches were all supersessionist, believing that Christ replaced God's old covenant with Israel. Since Jews rejected the Messiah, they were no longer considered God's chosen people. This is based on the New Testament. For example, Hebrews 8:13, Matthew 21:43, but primarily from the letters of Paul in passages such as in Galatians, quote, "Know then, that is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise." Here Paul is indicating that the Jews can no longer consider themselves heirs of God's covenant unless they accept Christ. The doctrine of supersessionism in both the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches was derived from these passages of the New Testament as well as the early church councils. In the Council of Jerusalem, Paul argued that Gentiles did not have to observe the Mosaic law in order to receive God's covenant. Rather, faith alone was sufficient. The First Council of Nicaea further required that Christian congregations sever connection with the Jewish calendar by formally detaching the celebration of Easter from the celebration of Passover. The Third Council of Constantinople forbade Christians from following Jewish rites under pain of excommunication. By this point, Judaism was seen as formally defunct with the assumption that the populist day, meaning the people of God, were now fully under the church. Numerous church fathers also expressed supersessionism. Augustine wrote, quote, "The Jews are not the sons of Israel. We are." Justin Martyr, in his dialogue with Trifo the Jew, wrote, quote, "For the true spiritual Israel and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ." Now shifting to the Protestant denominations, supersessionism is clear from the very start. Martin Luther wrote in his infamous treatise On the Jews and Their Lies, quote, "For such ruthless wrath of God is sufficient evidence that the Jewish people assuredly have erred and gone astray. Even a child can comprehend this. For one dare not regard God as so cruel that he would punish his own people so long, so terribly, so unmercifully. Therefore, this work of wrath is proof that the Jews surely rejected by God are no longer his people, and neither he any longer their God." John Calvin writes, quote, "The covenant which had formerly been made with Abraham was abrogated, or that God had so forgotten it that the Jews are now completely estranged from his kingdom." What about salvation? Can Jews attain salvation outside of the church? Again, prior to the 20th century, Christian theologians were overwhelmingly of the position that salvation was only through faith in Christ and that Jews were cursed both in this life and the hereafter for their rejection of his kingdom. In the Catholic tradition, Thomas Aquinas in Summa Theologica affirmed that Jews could be saved only by explicit faith in Christ, viewing their unbelief as willful blindness. John of Damascus cites the Gospel of John 6:51-55 to emphasize that Jews must accept Christ for salvation. Quote, "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life." Within Protestantism, Martin Luther notes that the Jews cursed Jesus, and therefore, of course, they're damned. Quote, "What harm has the poor Jesus done to the most holy children of Israel? That they cannot stop cursing him after death. Indeed, such fire of divine wrath we behold descending on the Jews, we see it burning ablaze in a flame, a fire more horrible than that of Sodom and Gomorrah." Not content to simply condemn Jews, Luther also called for extreme violence. Quote, "First, their synagogues should be set on fire. Second, their houses also be razed and destroyed. We are at fault in not slaying them." Pretty hardcore. Because of the threat of eternal damnation, the premodern Christians believed that Jews must be targeted for conversion. They based this on the evangelism of Jesus to the Jews as described in the Gospels as mentioned in for example Matthew 10:5-6. These twelve disciples Jesus sent out with the following instructions. "Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel." For over 1900 years, doctrines like supersessionism and salvific exclusivism defined Christianity. But after World War II, a major effort began to overhaul Christian theology. International Jewish groups blamed anti-Semitic Christian teachings for the Holocaust. The American Jewish Committee and World Jewish Congress demanded Christians revise their centuries-old doctrines. Instead of refusing, Christians accepted collective guilt, admitting their theology was responsible for the Holocaust. On the question of God's relationship with Jews, post-World War II Christians view fall on a spectrum. This is described by Cornelius Van Til, a theologian from Princeton Theological Seminary. He describes Christian views as falling on a spectrum. He calls the supersessionist view the extreme position at the far right. At the far left of the spectrum is dual covenant theology, which is the belief that God retains two separate covenants. One with Jews who reject Christ and one with those who accept Christ of the Gentiles. The old covenant with the Jews remains valid and as long as Jews abide by it, they are saved, whereas Gentiles are required to accept Christ for salvation. Between these two poles are different variations of dispensationalism, new covenant theology, reformed theology, and more. I can't summarize all the theology here, but to different degrees, these theologies affirm that yes, Jesus is the only path to salvation. But some way, somehow, Jews retain some form of a special status and are saved through some mystery or some future eschatological redemption. In the Catholic Church, for example, the Second Vatican Council was held between 1962 and 65, which produced the Nostra Aetate declaration rejecting supersessionism. Quote, "God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their fathers." End quote. In 2015, the Vatican issued a further statement saying, quote, "That the Jews are participants in God's salvation is theologically unquestionable. But how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery." For previous Catholics, it was clear that Christ was the only path to salvation. So in so far as Jews respected or in so far as Jews rejected Christ, there could obviously be no salvation. But now the church has decided that Christ is only is still the only path to salvation. But Jews are also undoubtedly saved without Christ. How is this obvious logical contradiction possible? It's a mystery. Some Protestant churches have also embraced this absurdity as divine mystery. In 1987, the US Presbyterian Church rejected supersessionism. Sorry, I think I went too far. Uh, they rejected supersessionism and declared, "The continued existence of the Jewish people and of the church as communities elected by God is, as the apostle Paul expressed it, a mystery. We do not claim to fathom this mystery, but we cannot ignore it." Some Protestant churches have also embraced this absurdity as de uh sorry, within Orthodoxy. They retain more supersessionist tendencies though there has been a concerted effort in the past 30 years to change this. Nonetheless, in 2019, the Ecumenical Patriarchate published a declaration stating that the Orthodox Christians look to the Jewish communities throughout the world not merely as to practitioners of another creed, but as to in some sense their spiritual elders in the history of God's saving revelations. The document further states, "Historically, Orthodox nations have dark histories of anti-Semitic violence and oppression. For all these evils, Christians must seek for God's forgiveness and expiation for these crimes against the Jewish people specifically committed in Orthodox lands. And the church seeks both God's forgiveness as well as a deeper relation of love and regard with Jewish communities and the Jewish faith." So regardless of denomination, Christians today all prostrate themselves in love, devotion, and submission to their spiritual elders, God's especially chosen, bowing their heads in abject humility to the ultimate haters and vilifiers of Jesus. Is this respect for Jesus or a calumny against him? The irony of ironies is that Jews weren't the only victims of 20th century genocide. Millions of Christians were killed in Europe and Russia by Jewish communists like Lazar Kaganovich, who starved 3.5 to 5 million Christians in Ukraine. Millions more were killed in Soviet Russia by Bolsheviks, most of whom were ethnic Jews. Yet no Christian demanded Jews reform their theology. No Christian blamed these atrocities on the Talmud or Jewish legal texts which explicitly call for violence against Jesus's followers. These texts are still taught, by the way, and Jews in Israel and elsewhere continue to spit on Christians, kill them, and destroy churches. Do Christians have an ounce of respect for themselves, let alone Jesus, to demand Jews to reform their theology of Christ hate? No. All Christians can do is engage in hermeneutical gymnastics, making a mockery of their own theological tradition in order to accommodate the one and only religion in the world that teaches hatred of Christ. Imagine someone insulting Jesus, cursing him, claiming he's being tortured in hell, boiling in feces, calling his mother a harlot. Anyone who claims to respect Jesus would be disgusted and enraged. But if that person suddenly puts on the yarmulke, suddenly he's a member of God's chosen, mysteriously retaining a special status with God and destined for salvation. Is that what you call respect for Christ? If so, I no longer know what respect even means. Ultimately, how can Christians claim to respect Jesus while honoring those who hate him most? It's true that Christians have historically committed atrocities against Jews. I admit it. But is the right response to disfigure one's theology into submissive philo-Semitism? In contrast, Islam has never waged pogroms, inquisitions, or holocausts against Jews. Nor have we warped our theology to promise them salvation or elevate them as God's chosen or our spiritual elders. Islam maintains self-respect. And more importantly, we love Jesus enough not to venerate those who revile him. You got it. We will kick it over to David for his 20-minute opening as well. Got the timer set and David, the floor is all yours.

Oh, the PowerPoint cord. And then folks will have, as I mentioned, the same format. We'll have these 20-minute openings, 12-minute rebuttals, then 8-minute second rebuttals, followed by five-minute closings, and then we'll have 30 minutes of Q&A. And again, going by the honor system, if you were in line last time, we'd like to kind of have those people that were waiting to ask a question be first in line, if you guys uh would be willing to allow them. And I think I should recognize some of your faces. So with that, kick it over to David. They're happy. Change the font. [Applause] So thank you James uh and thank you Daniel for suggesting the font change. Um, and thank you, Daniel, for proposing this topic. I had no idea what you were thinking when you wanted to debate whether Christianity or Islam portrays Jesus more respectfully. I was um I was thinking you might say, "Well, according to the Bible, Jesus was a Jew, so it's bad." Um, but after hearing your opening statement, just like to thank you for increasing my iman. Uh let's go ahead and check out the the biblical view of Jesus here. So this is from Philippians 2. "In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage. Rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross. Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." So this is basically the Christian view of Jesus. I would say you cannot possibly show more respect for someone than saying this about him. I would also have to say if you want to respect Jesus, you should respect his words. And what does Jesus say? Mark 10:45, "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many." Mark 9:31, "The Son of Man is to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he has been killed, he will rise three days later." So Jesus says he's going to die. He already said that it was going to be as a ransom and that when he has been killed, he will rise again. And we have Mark 14:61-62. Again, the high priest asked him, this is at his trial. Again, the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the son of the Blessed?" And Jesus said, "I am. And you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven." So if you want to be respectful towards Jesus, I would suggest strongly taking his words seriously, believing what he says about himself. But here's a question. Islam denies these things. Islam denies that Jesus died on the cross. Well, there there are some exceptions. There there are a few Muslims who believe that Jesus did die by crucifixion. Uh, the vast majority of Muslims believe that Jesus didn't die by crucifixion, didn't rise from the dead, and he is not the son of God that he claimed to be. So they believe this is all uh made up. But we've got a couple of problems here. So if Jesus didn't die on the cross, didn't rise from the dead, and he's not the divine son of God, where did these ideas come from? Our last debate was about the Islamic dilemma. The issue there is whether the Bible has been corrupted or not. The the the Quran turns out to be wrong. Uh, but for different reasons. So, hey, this is distracting. What's going on? You're not taking this off my time, James. I'm sorry. I just want to see Oh, no, no, no. It's it's if I I want to make sure Daniel is following me. It's good. I just want to make sure you had internet connection for his slide. Oh, okay. No problem. No problem. No problem. Um, so the question is where did people get the idea that Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, and that he is the divine son of God. Let's check out where he got these where Christians got these ideas. According to the Quran, Surah 3:55, Allah says, "Behold, behold, Allah said, 'Oh Jesus, I will take you and raise you to myself and clear you of the falsehoods of those who disbelieve. I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve until the day of resurrection. Then shall you all return to me, and I will judge between you concerning the matters wherein you differ.'" So here Allah is about to take Jesus away and he says, "Don't worry about your followers. I'm going to make those who follow you superior to those who reject faith to the day of resurrection." Surah 61:14, "Oh you who believe, be helpers in the cause of Allah." As Jesus son of Mary said to his disciples, "Who are my helpers in the cause of Allah?" The disciples said, "We are helpers in the cause of Allah." So a party of the children of Israel believed and another party disbelieved. Then we aided those who believed against their enemy and they became uppermost. So Allah says that he actually helped the true followers of Jesus until they became uppermost over those who rejected Jesus. So Allah puts his stamp of approval over the followers of Jesus who eventually became uppermost over the Jews who rejected him. Well, we happen to know a lot about the followers of Jesus who won all these disputes. We have quite a bit of knowledge of them. And oddly enough, they believed in Jesus' death, resurrection, and divine nature. And they recorded lots of information about him. And we have the command in the Quran, "Say, 'Oh people of the book, you have no ground to stand upon unless you stand fast by the Torah, the gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.'" So the people of the book are supposed to go to the writings that were passed down. But here we get to the issue of according to Islam, who corrupted this message? So if Jesus didn't die on the cross, didn't rise from the dead, he's not the divine son, where did these ideas come from? Well, we can kind of find out. Surah 4:157-158, "They [the Jews] said, 'We killed Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not nor crucified him. But so it was made to appear to them. And those who differ therein are full of doubts with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow. For of certainty they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up to himself. And Allah is exalted in power, wise." So the standard Muslim interpretation of these passages is called substitution theory, that Allah miraculously disguised someone else to make him look like Jesus. And lots of Muslims will say this was Judas or something like that. So they wanted to crucify Jesus, but Allah took someone else like Judas, miraculously disguised him, made him look like Jesus, and then this other person was crucified in his place. So, quick question. According to Muslims, Jesus didn't die by crucifixion. Open up any Bible you want. Jesus died by crucifixion. So according to Muslims, the Bible's been corrupted. Quick question, where did people get the idea that Jesus died by crucifixion? Anyone? Allah. Who corrupted the gospel? If the gospel has been corrupted, Allah did that. Don't blame the Apostle Paul. Don't blame the Council of Nicaea. Allah did that. So Allah makes everyone think that Jesus died by crucifixion and people believe that. Even his followers ended up believing that. So Allah deceived even the followers of Jesus. And of course, he gets raised up. So now you've got belief in Jesus' death and resurrection all thanks to Allah. Interesting. Don't blame Don't blame Christians for corrupting the gospel. If you want to say the gospel has been corrupted, blame Allah. Now, there are plenty of things in the Quran that seem very respectful towards Jesus. Lots of things that Christians would agree with. In fact, there are things that Muslims and Christians agree on that non-Christian Jews would disagree with us on. In other words, there are there are issues where Christians and Muslims are on the exact same side of certain issues. And some of these are and some of these aren't. But let's look, let's look at some of the things the Quran and Hadith say about Jesus. So, we've got Jesus in Islam. Jesus is the word of Allah. Jesus is a spirit from Allah. Jesus was born of a virgin. That's interesting. Who agrees with us that Jesus is born of a virgin? Not a lot of people, not atheists, not Jews who reject Jesus. So, there's some there's some awesome common ground here. We're building bridges. Jesus spoke as a baby. We're not too familiar with that one. But in Islam, he uh came out of the womb preaching Islamic theology. Interesting. Jesus was sinless. That's nice. Jesus raised the dead. Jesus created the same way Allah creates. Now here, this is kind of interesting because according to the Quran, Jesus is basically showing off his powers and he would make a clay bird and then he would breathe into it and give it life and then it would become a real bird. That's exactly how Allah created man. And the Quran says, ah, he did it by Allah's leave. Well, that's the Quran saying later on. Imagine the people who are there. So according to Islam, Jesus is hanging out one day. Everyone look at me. Hey, watch. I'm going to make something. He makes a clay bird, breathes into it the same way Allah creates, and it becomes a living being. He creates in the exact same way Allah creates. So if we take that seriously, where did people get the idea that Jesus is divine? Any answer? Allah. Allah basically duped people into believing that Jesus died on the cross. He duped people into believing he rose from the dead. And he duped people into thinking that Jesus is divine. So if you want to say the Bible's been corrupted on the three core doctrines of the Christian gospel, don't blame Paul. Don't blame the Council of Nicaea. Don't blame Christians for corrupting things. Blame Allah. He's the source of these things. Quick question. Is that is that a respectful is that a respectful view of Jesus to believe that God is tricking people into believing false things about him? Kind of weird, right? So, we but we have uh these kinds of issues. They say Jesus is the Messiah. They don't know what it means, but they say it. Jesus was rescued by Allah from those who wanted to kill him, and Jesus will eventually return. So, lots of lots of things where Muslims agree with Christians and so on. Interesting stuff. And you look at this and say, "Wow, Jesus is really unique in Islam." Problem is, it's all superficial. It's all superficial. It makes no sense in Islam. You ask your Muslim friend, why is Jesus so unique in all these ways? Why is Jesus the one who's the spirit from Allah? Why is Jesus the word of Allah? Why is Jesus born of a virgin? Why does Jesus live the most miraculous life in history? Why does Jesus? Why is Jesus the Messiah? Why is Jesus the one who's going to return? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? And the answer is, Allah knows best. That's it. It doesn't make any sense. In Christianity, it makes sense for Jesus to be so radically different. In Islam, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You'd have to say if if Allah is making Jesus so amazingly unique in all these ways, even creating in the same way that he creates, can you actually blame people for thinking that Jesus is radically different from everyone else, including prophets? It's kind of on Allah, right? Allah convinced people of Jesus' death, resurrection, and deity. So this is interesting stuff. There are also some weird, just to be fair, there are also weird implications of certain Islamic claims. So I'll give an example. This is Sahih Muslim 2749. Abu Hurayrah reported Allah's Messenger having said, "By Him in whose hand is my life, if you were not to commit sin, if you were not to commit sin, Allah would sweep you out of existence and He would replace you by those people who would commit sin and seek forgiveness from Allah, and He would have pardoned them." You familiar with this? Allah says, "If you don't sin, I will destroy you. I want you to sin so that I can forgive you and then be forgiving." Well, this is interesting. So, according to Allah, if we didn't sin, if we weren't to sin, he would wipe us out of existence. Now, according to the Quran, who tempted human beings to sin? Satan did. Satan, according to the Quran, tempted human beings to sin. So, if we hadn't sinned, Allah would have wiped us out and destroyed us. Satan tempted us to sin, and therefore, Allah didn't wipe us out of existence. So if you kind of dig a little beneath the superficial level, who's our savior according to Islam? Satan's our savior. Well, if Allah wants people to sin and he's so enraged when people don't sin that he'll wipe them out of existence, who would be the ultimate enemy of Allah? The the one who refuses to sin and tries to keep us from sinning. So Jesus, if you dig a little bit below the surface, Jesus turns out to be Allah's ultimate nemesis. Ain't that interesting? Sounds demonic, doesn't it? I think so, too. All right, but here's a So, you have all kinds of little side issues like that. Don't want to get too much into those, but I do want to get into the real issue of what when Muslims think that they respect Jesus, especially when they think they respect him more than us. Um, this is a passage uh from the Quran, Surah 33:53. Historical background is Muhammad would invite people over for dinner and then they would pester him with questions when he's trying to do other things. And so Allah eventually responds in Surah 33:53. All these people hanging out at Muhammad's house. He doesn't like it. What does Allah say? Allah gets annoyed. He says, "Oh, you who believe, enter not the Prophet's houses, except when leave is given to you for a meal. And then not so early as to wait for its preparation, but when you are invited, enter when you have taken your meal, disperse without sitting for talk. Verily, such behavior annoys the Prophet, and he is shy of asking you to go." But Allah is not shy of telling you the truth. Now, who's delivering this revelation? Muhammad. Just imagine people, you're coming over his house and pestering with questions. And he says, "I have a revelation." Muhammad's too shy to tell you that you should stop annoying Muhammad, but Allah's not shy. And and he says, "Quit hanging out at Muhammad's house so much because uh it's it's annoying him." This looks awfully suspicious. It would be one thing if this was just the only time, but this happens over and over again. In the same chapter, Allah tells Muhammad, in the same chapter, uh, Allah tells Muhammad that he has to take the wife of his own adopted son and marry her. It's really important to Allah. Um, in the same chapter, Surah 33:50, Muhammad wants more than the four wife limit. So Allah tells him, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, you get what you want." Uh, Surah 66:1-2, the historical background is Muhammad gets caught in the in the bed of his wife, Hafsa, having sex with a slave girl. He's allowed to have sex with his slave girls in Islam. But his wives didn't like that happening in their bed. One of his wives comes home early, catches him, and so on. And they they start arguing with him so much and pestering him so much, he says, "Fine, I swear by Allah, I will not have sex with that girl again." And you can read the opening verses of Surah 66 where Allah tells him, "Hey, you go ahead and break that oath you swore." These seem awfully convenient and other people notice. In Sahih Bukhari 4788, Aisha says, "Your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires." Absolutely. Anything Muhammad wanted, Allah just said, "Yes, you need to you need to do this everyone. You need to do this for Muhammad." Sounds like Muhammad basically turned Allah into his sock puppet. Not trying to be mean here. That's what it sounds like. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but he basically turns Allah into a sock puppet to give him anything he wants. Hey everyone, Allah wants you to do everything I say and obey me in all things. That's Surah 4:65 of the Quran. The only way you can submit to Allah is by submitting to Muhammad. And Muhammad's the one receiving the revelations. So I have to say this is awfully suspicious. But guess what? Muhammad doesn't just do this with Allah. He does this with everyone. Like everyone historically, prophets, right? So what does Moses say? Everything that confirms Muhammad, according to the Quran. What does Abraham say in the Quran? Just what confirms Muhammad? What does everyone in the Quran say? What does Jesus say? Well, Jesus is prophesying the coming of Muhammad and he's preaching Islamic theology even as a baby. By the way, it gets really absurd because Alexander the Great is even a devout Muslim according to the Quran. Alexander the Great is as pagan as a pagan could possibly be. He's a devout Muslim in the Quran. So, it's clear it's clear that Muhammad is just rewriting everything. Well, he's speaking, but um he's rewriting everything to make the entire everyone revolve around him. He's using everyone as his sock puppet. Let me ask, is it respectful to Jesus to go to someone who's just making everyone agree with him and promote his theology? Is it respectful to go to that person to learn about Jesus even when that person contradicts the core claims of Jesus? I would consider that massively, massively, massively disrespectful. If I want to learn about you, I don't go to someone who constantly lies about people and so on to get my information about you. So massively disrespectful and it's at the very core of Islam. Where do Muslims go to learn about Jesus? Muhammad. Where do Muslims go to learn about Abraham or Allah or anyone else? They go to Muhammad. Very disrespectful. Daniel's argument. Is it respectful to Jesus to love those who hate and curse Jesus? Daniel says, "Ha, is it respectful to Jesus to love those who hate and curse Jesus?" Let me ask all the Christians in the room together, is it respectful to Jesus to love those who hate and curse Jesus? Thank you very much. And so, Daniel, I'd say they know the teachings of Jesus a lot better than you. We will move into Daniel's first rebuttal, which is 12 minutes. The clock is set for you Daniel for your first rebuttal. When Oh, that's right. Um, starting now. Starting right now. Okay.

So I think David is still stuck in the previous debate. He somehow thinks that the Islamic dilemma has been vindicated. So all of your arguments were predicated on the Islamic dilemma being correct. But we buried the Islamic dilemma in the previous debate. So you have to actually present a new argument. You didn't present anything that showed concretely disrespect from Islam against Jesus. You just had a rambling um monologue about visiting the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam. Satan is causing you to sin, but that's really Allah, and you just read a bunch of verses of the Quran in a funny voice, and that's supposed to be an argument. Um, but it's not very compelling. Uh, you say that um, oh, also to keep in mind, like Jesus did not teach the crucifixion. The Injil doesn't teach the crucifixion. The Injil, the gospel that the Quran is confirming, as we discussed in the previous debate, is not co-extensive with the New Testament. So let's just make that clear. You ask why is Jesus unique? Why why does Islam put so much emphasis on Jesus saying that he was born a virgin birth, he could speak in the cradle, he's the Messiah, he's going to return to defeat the Antichrist and establish the kingdom of God on earth. Why is God why is Allah making Jesus so unique? And this is supposed to be some uh huge dilemma for Muslims. Well, guess what? Adam is unique. Adam was the first man. He had no parents. Adam is unique. Abraham is unique. He's the father of all nations. Moses is unique. He parted

The sea. David is unique. Solomon is unique. The Quran describes him as being able to communicate with animals and to control the wind. And Jesus is unique. So all of these prophets, God has made them unique in their own special way. And Jesus is definitely unique as the Messiah. As the Messiah. And Muslims are affirming that and believe that. And we truly believe that he is going to be um coming from heaven to defeat and slay the antichrist.

Um, you said Alexander the Great is in the Quran. Did I hear that right? I don't know what Quran you're reading, David. I think this is something again, this is emblematic or symptomatic of your approach to the Quran. Uh, Carn is what is mentioned in the Quran. Carnain. And there is there are some who speculate it could be Alexander. And that's not even like a majority opinion. It's just something that someone speculated not as the definitive meaning of what is the identity of this historical person mentioned in the uh surah in the Quran uh Carnain. This is just a speculation not a theological claim. But you take that tier and you read it and you say oh they think that Alexander is in the Quran they say that Alexander is a Muslim. No he was a pagan. Islam has been refuted. The Quran has been refuted. This is laughable. Like this is not compelling to anyone other than Christian followers or atheists or Hindus. I don't know what kind of people are following you these days. A lot of Jews I think. Uh but it's not compelling to anyone who actually knows the Quran. It's not compelling to anyone who actually knows what tafsir is, what interpretation of the Quran actually is.

Uh and then again you say, "Oh, the ultimate disrespect is you don't go to Jesus to hear what Jesus has to say." That's the ultimate disrespect. You go to Muhammad and you go to the Quran instead of Jesus. That's the ultimate mode of disrespect. Seriously, that's your argument? Like, could you do us the respect of actually preparing for these debates, David? Because we're Muslims. Obviously, as the Quran says, the text of the Jews and the Christians has been corrupted. We read the verses 2:79 very clearly. Those texts have been textually corrupted. So of course we don't go to those corrupt texts. We explained the Islamic dilemma and we debunked the Islamic dilemma in the previous debate. Um, and people can watch that because I know this is a separate stream. So now I have questions for David. I really hope that David can answer these questions. Obviously he didn't anticipate the direction that I was going to go. Um, in in this topic, but I want to know from David. Are Jews the chosen people of God? These are answers that we need in this debate. Uh you all need it as Christians. David needs it. His followers need him to say it explicitly. Are Jews the chosen people of God? Are Jews saved?

So you have people who uh not only religious Jews, by the way, even secular Jews will mock Jesus Christ. And this is something. Do you know Sarah Silverman? She's a Jewish comedian, very popular Jewish comedian. And she says that yes, we meaning the Jews killed Christ. Yes, we did it. And if we could do it again, we would do it again. She's a sec. She's not a religious Jew. She's a secular Jew. This is a common sentiment uh from Jews who are, you know, very close with David because of his uh support for Israel's genocide. So tell me, are people, can you say Jesus is burning in excrement? He is burning in feces in hell and that's what we believe because why? The Talmud, the most holy text that was revealed to Moses, the oral Torah, the Talmud says that Jesus is was hanged or he was stoned rather, his corpse was hanged and he's burning in excrement for all eternity. Someone who says that, are they saved? Can they can they be saved? David, you have to answer this because if that's the case, then why should anyone be religious? Why should anyone become a Christian? Your whole mission is that Muslims, your whole mission with your channel and all the work you've been doing for over two decades now is to take take Muslims out of Islam. Take the Muslims out of Islam because that's a step in the right direction. That's what you say. Well, how about Jews taking a step in the right direction? Why don't you have any evangelism for Jews? Why don't you have any material trying to call Jews to become Christian or to leave their Judaism? Why? Isn't this like an obvious contradiction? If you truly love, you say, "Oh, everyone answered, "Wow, everyone loves Jews." Okay, amazing. You love everyone. Okay, if you love them, why aren't you evangelizing them? Why aren't you calling them to leave Judaism? At the very least, maybe they won't become Christian, but maybe they should leave their hatred, their rank hatred for Jesus Christ. You don't say a single word about it. No, you just go to Israel and prostitute yourself supporting a genocidal regime that is killing over 400,000 Palestinians have been murdered, have been genocide. They're starving to death. 2 million or 1.6 million that are left of them are starving. And what do we see from Christians? Do we see Christians uh calling out for Palestinians to not be starved to death by Israel? No. Israel can't starve these Palestinians to death without the support of the US government. And what is the base of support for Israel in the United States? It's Republican Christians. Republican Christian conservatives. That's what the genocide is happening on the basis of. So you claim that you love everyone. Oh, you love the Jews so much. How about loving these Palestinians? How about loving these children that are starving to death? David here, and this is why I won't shake his hand. I didn't shake his hand. He's making jokes about starving children. Is that Christlike? Is that respect for Christ? Please tell me. Please tell me. Is this Christlike? This is disgusting behavior from David. And he doesn't have the self-respect, let alone respect for Jesus to just at least shut your mouth. Okay? Just shut your mouth about Palestine, Gaza. Stop making jokes about starving children and saying, "Oh, why are they why are they so fat?" This is stupid. This is disgusting. And it is an abomination to your religion. And I know that a lot of Christians don't agree with this. They don't agree with agents of Israel, social media influencers being paid to propagate a genocide against innocent people. Christians, by the way, are included in Palestine. Did everyone see the news about the IDF shooting a tank munition against the church? The last remaining church that was in Gaza was destroyed by the IDF. And three Christian children were killed by that. You claim to love everyone, right? You don't love the Palestinian Christians. Forget about the Muslims. They're the terrorists. They're all Hamas. Were the Christian children that were were killed by the IDF? Are they also Hamas? Are they also terrorists? David, please answer these burning questions and tell me, are these Jews going to be saved when they hate Christ? They There's only one religion in the world that hates Jesus Christ. It's not Hinduism. It's not Buddhism. It's not Sikhism. It's not Rastafarianism. There's no religion on earth that hates Jesus Christ except Judaism. And that's the one religion you Christians will love so much and pray so much for and support even when they do the most un-Christian, genocidal things. This is so bizarre and unexplainable. And this is the ultimate disrespect for the message of Jesus Christ. Even the message that you read in your book which I believe is corrupted. Even in that book, it tells you not to turn away from those who are suffering. Turn away those from those who are suffering from the poor. Who's the poor victim? Who who are the ones who are suffering from poverty in the Middle East? Is it not the Palestinians? Or is it the Israelis living in their high-rise buildings, going to the beaches, enjoying their lascivious lifestyles of degeneracy? Who's really the suffering people that Christ would have wanted to help? That Christ would want to have supported? Tell me honestly. You claim to love everyone. You claim to be a a religion of mercy and peace. Yet you support a genocidal regime of Israel committing the worst genocide that we have ever witnessed. We see it in 4K on social media. No denying it. No denying that. And you have David here and these goons making jokes, minimizing it, taking all expenses paid tours to Israel to shill for that disgusting genocidal regime. And all Americans and the entire world are so disgusted. They are sanctioning Israel. They are condemning Israel. And a lot of them are not even Christians. A lot of them are atheists. A lot some some Jews even are condemning Israel. But it's the Christians in America of David's crop that are the ones defending Israel. This is a calumny against Jesus Christ. It's a calumny against even the Christianity and the New Testament that you all profess. So we can we cannot abide by this. David, you have a lot of explaining to do and that's why I wanted to make this debate about these topics. You might try to divert into talking about hadith or talking about this. What's the correct interpretation of this verse or that verse? I want us to talk about the elephant in the room. What is your position on the salvation of Jews? On the salvation of those who insult Jesus Christ, those who commit atrocities against the message of Jesus Christ. Please explain this to us in your uh in your response. Thank you. We'll go to David's 12-minute rebuttal as well. David, I have the timer set for you. Ready when you are.

All right. Uh, one more time. One more time. Uh, all Christians, is it respectful to Jesus to love those who hate and curse Jesus? Yes. Do you love Jews? Yes. Do you love Muslims? Yes. I have to go ahead and say, uh, Daniel, just to clarify, the worst ISIS mass murdering jihadi on the planet until his dying breath, I hope what's best for him. I hope he repents and turns away from what he's done and seeks forgiveness from the Lord Jesus Christ. No. So, I love them, too. [Applause] Now um Daniel uh interestingly and is uh in this debate about which religion respects Jesus most um quotes various Christians on the topic of Jews. Notice the parallel to the last debate. I was quoting Allah on what Allah and Muhammad on what the Quran teaches. Daniel was quoting everyone pretty much but Allah and Muhammad. We turn to a debate about the Bible and who does he quote? A bunch of random people and so on. Well, you know, there's Christians, but it it it there there's an interesting parallel there. Like, who defines Islam? I go to them. Who defines Christianity? I go to them. So, let's check out some passages. Jesus said, Matthew 5, you have heard that it was said, you shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy. But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you so that you may be sons of your father who is in heaven. For he causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. So I would say Daniel, if we don't obey Jesus here, we're not being respectful. And if if uh if you're going to reject Jesus, you're not going to be respectful. If we actually honor what Jesus said, I would call that respectful. John 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews. But as it is, my kingdom is not of this realm." Should we go out and subjugate people we disagree with? Jesus says his kingdom is not of this world. It's not an earthly kingdom unlike Islam. And you can see the impact Jesus had on his, dare I say, Jewish followers throughout the rest of the New Testament. Romans 12:17, never pay back evil for evil to anyone. 12:18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, but leave room for the wrath of God. If your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him a drink. Let all that you do be done in love. Though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. Walk in love. May the Lord cause you to increase and abound in love for one another and for all people. See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people. I urge that in treaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings be made on behalf of all men. So we are supposed to love Jews. We're supposed to love Muslims. We're supposed to love even people who hate and despise Jesus.

Now on this issue, Daniel seems to live in kind of a fantasy world where Jews are just sitting around going, "I hate Jesus. He's burning in a sea of excrement, and this is what they're doing." Um, Jews actually in reality here in the real world, not in Daniel's mind, have a variety of beliefs. There's a there's a broad spectrum. At one end, at one end of the spectrum, you do have Jews who really hate Jesus and spit at Christians and so on. On the other end of the spectrum, you have Messianic Jews who follow Jesus and worship him. So, you've got the you you've got the the extremes and then you've got a variety of views in between. Um, matter of fact, uh when when I was in Israel, I was talking to a Jewish man and he said, "You know, Jesus way won." I said, "What?" He said, "Yeah, the way of Jesus won." I was like, "What are you talking about?" He said, "Yeah, Jesus came to condemn hypocrisy and so on and, you know, expose religious extremism and tell people to, you know, quit quit being obsessed with every little detail and so on and and that way that won that won even in Judaism." So he viewed Jesus as a kind of religious reformer against extremism. Um, by the way, it seems the most common view among Jews, especially in Israel, is they don't even think about him. They're not interested. In other words, it's not like me and Muhammad where I really don't like Muhammad. It's more like me and Buddha where I I just don't think about Buddha much, right? That seems to be the most common view among Jews. Um, and by the way, uh, I talked to a Messianic Jew over there who's been preaching the gospel in Israel for 20 years. He says the most common reaction he gets from Jews is they're interested in hearing him because they're like, "Whoa, you're a Jew and you believe in Jesus." And they sit there and listen to what he says. So yeah, you do have you do have some seriously messed up people in this world. Stop lumping everyone together. This would be like me saying that all Muslims are ISIS terrorists or something like that. Want to know why? Want to know the origin of the hostility? Abu Hurayrah reported Allah's messenger as saying, "The last hour would not come until Muslims will fight against the Jews, and the Muslims would kill them. Until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree, and a stone or a tree would say, Muslim or servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him." But the Ghar tree doesn't say, for it is the tree of the Jews. Ghar tree doesn't snitch. So, you know, so anyway, point here is um if you look if we were to look around at the world and say, you know what, we really need to focus on Christian persecution and really go hard against who's behind the Christian persecution. Do you have some you have various groups including Jews who sometimes persecute Christians and so on? If you wanted to say where the real biggest problem lies, where do you think that might be? The the the the place where Christians are most persecuted on the planet is Nigeria and it's by Muslims. And you can go kind of country by country. Muslims persecuting Christians. Muslims persecuting Christians. Muslims persecuting Christians. So if I were to ask if I were to ask, hey, if we're to love Christians, who should we be opposing here? You you'd you'd get Islam. With that said, that's not because we hate Muslims and so on. It's you'd be looking and saying, "Okay, who's killing tons and tons and tons of Christians? That seems to be coming from a particular source." So, you have a fixation on Israel, Daniel. I mean, you suggested to me a debate on which religion respects Jesus most. And your entire opening statement was complaining about Jews. Terrible problems over there. Terrible problems going on. I guess what? I want the best for everyone. I want the best for the Jews of Israel. I want the best for the Palestinians. Why do I focus primarily on Hamas? I don't believe there's any path forward to peace in that entire area when you have a terrorist regime. So I happen to believe I happen to believe that that is that is by far that is by far the main thing that needs to be done. You can't just keep supporting terrorists. If so, you're going to get endless blood baths. And so I would prefer uh focusing on that on that issue in the world. Um, with that said, we've actually got a debate and a topic. So, uh, as far as Daniel's arguments, he said that the Islamic dilemma was refuted in the previous debate. I must have missed that because I didn't see that at all. He says, "The Injil doesn't teach Jesus' crucifixion." Allah repeatedly says, he's talking about the books we have. What book do we have? What Injil do we have that doesn't teach Jesus' crucifixion? I must have missed that. Just like I missed the refutation of the Islamic dilemma. As far as why is Jesus unique? Why is Jesus unique? Um, he says, "Oh, all prophets are unique." Yeah. I mean, if you want to. Yeah. Everyone's unique in a certain way. Jesus is like radically unique beyond everyone else. Again, spirit from Allah, word of Allah, born of a virgin, most miraculous life. He's the Messiah. He's the one returning to fight the Antichrist. Why is he unique in so many ways? Seems like Allah misled a lot of people by doing all of these things. And so again, can you blame us? Um, he said, "Is Alexander the Great in the Quran?" He says, "Well, it's not a majority." Yeah, because later Muslim commentators learned about Alexander the Great and said, "This cannot possibly be talking about Alexander the Great. He was a total pagan." Surah 18 of the Quran, read the Alexander Romance or the Glorious Deeds of Alexander. It is massively plagiarized. In fact, Musa San Antonio, who was a popular Muslim preacher in Australia, he's a convert to Islam. He's a master of languages. Eventually, he learned Aramaic just so he could study various sources. He read the Alexander Romance in Aramaic and left Islam. He left Islam because he said, "This is plagiarized directly from the Alexander Romance in Aramaic." And he said the Quran, he said, "I realize that the Quran is 7th century Alexander the Great fanfiction." And I would have to agree uh as far as uh I don't know why Daniel brought up again 2:79 saying that it refuted the Islamic dilemma. Uh yeah, as long as you ignore the entire rest of the chapter, entire rest of the Quran and you're willing to force your views on Allah and disagree with everything else he says. Yeah, great. Uh but the rest of us aren't doing that. We're reading these things and trying to understand them in context. So, I'll just be clear here on salvation issues. Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." No one is getting to Jesus. I mean, no one is getting to the father except through Jesus. So, do Muslims need the gospel? Yes. Do Jews need the gospel? Absolutely. Everyone needs the gospel. Now, as far as me not being completely enraged at this person for doing this or this Jew for doing that or something like that, um, Daniel, I mean, I regard you as morally reprehensible in a variety of ways. I do not hate you. I want what's best for you. I'm here debating, hoping hoping that you will eventually repent. But the bottom at the botto at the end of the day, by the way, when I say I believe you're morally reprehensible, that is not just me picking at you and saying I'm better or something like that. When I think these things about people, guess what? It is always, always, always in my mind. I don't know everything you've done. Maybe you're a mass murderer or something like that, but based on what I know, there's nothing I know about you where I could say this guy was worse than me because I know I've done worse. I've done some seriously, seriously, seriously messed up stuff in my life. And that's why I can look at Muslims, I can look at Jews, I can look at anyone and I want everyone to know the risen Lord Jesus Christ. Which is why I happen to focus on the ideology on the planet that opposes the gospel more than any other. And it's not Jews. They're a tiny little group. It's Islam. So here we are. We'll switch into the second rebuttal. So these will be 8 minutes each instead of 12. Daniel ready when you are.

Okay. Ready now. So uh David says he hopes that these Jews repent. That wasn't the question. The question was, can you be saved and be considered a good person if you are constantly blaspheming Jesus, insulting him, mocking him? David very carefully avoids this question. He avoids addressing it. Why? Because that's going to put him in bad uh position in hot water with his benefactors, with his patrons. That's the problem that David has here. And I'm going to keep pressing him. I'm going to keep pressing him to denounce like he would denounce any other person. Any other person that comes and says, "Yeah, I think Jesus is boiling in feces and his mother is a harlot." You would say, "This is a disgusting thing to say and that enrages me. I love you like on a spiritual level, but I'm very angry that you have this position." That's a normal way to respond, but David doesn't respond that way. Why? Because he benefits whether because of finances or popularity by being supported by the state of Israel. So he won't touch this topic with a 10-foot pole. He says that he prays for Jews. Guess what? Muslims pray for Jews as well. Muslims pray that they will repent, that they will leave their hatred of Christ, and they will accept Christ as the Messiah, as the true Messiah instead of pursuing a false messiah who we know is going to be the antichrist. Yet what David does is he has good relations with these people who are literally working to bring the antichrist to the earth. Do you understand what the building of the third temple means for Jews? It means that the third temple will be constructed and that will be the signal for the antichrist to come who they believe is the true messiah. They believe that person is the true messiah, not Jesus Christ. So that's that's what uh David is apparently very okay with. In fact, he's taking tours and kissing the wailing wall and posing for pictures. This is a disgusting disrespect for Jesus Christ. He keeps mentioning Messianic Jews that that love Jesus. What percentage of the Jewish population are Messianic Jews? David, could you maybe tell us that? Is this like the overwhelming percentage of Jews are Messianic Jews? Um, he says that oh they don't really think about Jesus. These Jews in Israel and elsewhere they don't really think about Jesus. Yes they do. They absolutely do. I'll give you just one simple example. Hopefully maybe not you David but Christians in the audience have noticed the amount of disrespect towards Jesus Christ. How many movies? How many TV shows? How many uh theater plays, Jesus Christ Superstar, what have you, insulting Jesus, mocking Jesus, har lampooning Jesus Christ and his mother? Isn't it throughout Hollywood that we see this kind of blasphemous material against Jesus Christ? Who do you think are the people who are overrepresented in positions of power within uh the media and Hollywood? I I say this just as an objective question. Can we objectively see who are producing these materials, insulting and lampooning Jesus Christ, destroying the faith of people who watch these movies and they laugh and they laugh at Jesus from your perspective? They're laughing at the Lord and Savior. So, shouldn't you be enraged by that? Shouldn't you be concerned about the people who are making this type of media and destroying the Christian fabric of the nation of the world? Um, they think about Jesus a lot. And then he says like, "Oh, if I say that all Jews hate Jesus, that would be like me saying all Muslims are ISIS terrorists." You do say that. You actually do say that, David. In fact, you just talked about Hamas. Hamas is these are all terrorists. Whoever supports Hamas are terrorists. That's why that's why I make jokes about Palestinians. Palestinians support Hamas. So therefore, they deserve to be starved to death. They deserve to be killed and massacred. That's exactly what you say about Muslims. That's the irony. That's the irony of this statement. And the way that you work that out, you say, "Yeah, of course Daniel doesn't support terrorism and the Muslim down the street doesn't support terrorism, but the Muslim down the street supports the Quran and supports the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and they committed acts of terrorism, quote unquote. Therefore, they support terrorism, but by extension." Okay. Well, apply that same logic to the Jews who if they don't explicitly say that they hate Jesus and they spit on him, they still believe in the Talmud. They still believe that the Talmud is revealed to to Moses and is the most holy text of their religion. And even if they're not religious, look at what they're doing to Christians in Israel. Look at how Christians in Israel are treated as second-class citizens. And it's not some minority that's spitting on Christians. The defense minister, current defense minister of Israel, Ben Gvir, said that spitting on Christians is an ancient Jewish custom. And he's saying this because there was a huge scandal. Videos of Jews in Israel in Jerusalem were spitting on Christians. When they passed by Christians in Jerusalem, they spit on them. And the and this became a controversy in America. What are they doing to Christians in Jerusalem? David Wood certainly isn't talking about these uh Christians suffering in Jerusalem. There's a controversy and then the defense minister Ben Gvir comes and says that we're not going to consider this a criminal act. You can spit on Christians. That's an ancient Jewish custom. It's perfectly justified. This is the defense minister of Israel. So, uh Muslims are persecuting Christians in Nigeria. Uh, okay. Let's say that I agree with that for the sake of argument. Uh, I mentioned millions of Christians starved to death by communist Jews. Have you made a single video about that, James? Uh, David, have you made a single video about that? And this is we're not talking about ancient history. We're talking about maybe someone's grandmother was involved in that in that starvation campaign in Eastern Europe, in Russia. Do you have any kind of Eastern European family that could be affected by that? You don't have anything to say about a mass genocide, over 5 million Christians being starved to death. You don't have a tear to shed. Why? Because of the perpetrators. That's why you just want to talk about Muslims in Nigeria. And here's an objective question that I want to answer from you, David. Do more Muslims kill Christians today or vice versa? Do more Muslims kill Christians or vice versa? Again, I mentioned the Republican party. I mentioned the wars that have been inflicted because of Israel dragging the United States into constant wars in the Middle East since 9/11, since 2001. And which demographic is supporting the US in these non-stop wars? It's the Christian Republicans. How many Muslims have been killed in these wars, David? How many Muslims have been killed? According to some estimates, it's over 4 million Muslims in the past 24 years have been killed by US wars in the Middle East. Who is supporting that? It's Zionists and it's Zionist Christians. And this is not my opinion. Go to the Cost of War Project. Google that. Brown University, Ivy League. And their estimate is that 4.5 to 4.7 million Muslim deaths. Objectively, David, who has killed more, Muslims killing Christians or Christians killing Muslims? I think the stats are completely on my side. Uh, and then I still want to know, are Christians saved? If they denounce Christ, okay, fine. If I denounce Christ, answer this. If Daniel denounces Christ and says, I reject Christ. God forbid I ever do that, but would I be saved? No. I'd be damned. So, can you say that a Jew is damned for rejecting Christ? Yeah, we say we pray for him. We want him to be saved. But is he saved without that? We'll go over to David for his second rebuttal as well. So, this is going to be 8 minutes and then we'll have the five-minute closings followed by Q&A. David, ready for you? I'll just I'll just leave that up here for a bit. You want to respect something, respect this. Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. That's Jesus. And Muhammad is the most perfect fulfillment of this ever. Jesus said, "False prophets are coming." Okay, how are we going to recognize them? They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are they ravenous wolves. He of course said uh many other things, but um how did Muhammad come to the Jews and Christians? Hey Jews and Christians, I'm on your side. A couple years later, you all have to be violently subjugated. Sheep's clothing, ravening wolf. Perfect fulfillment of a false prophet. And sounds like this would be something I would be required to go after.

Um, so Daniel says, "Why wouldn't I condemn a Jew for saying Jesus is boiling in human excrement? I've never heard a Jew say that to me. I hear Muslims attacking Jesus all the time, day and night. Never heard a Jew never heard a Jew say it to me." If he said it to me, I'd say you're wrong. Shame on you. But I'm not going to go around saying all Jews say this because guess what? They don't. Daniel doesn't even understand basic things like the Talmud. Um, one, vast majority of Jews you run into, they have no clue what's in the Talmud. Very, they may be parts of things that have been influenced by it and so on. And the Jews who read the Talmud, they don't read it like Daniel does, right? The Talmud is a collection of claims by rabbis. These claims very frequently, completely contradict each other on various issues. You the the Talmud is not this collection of commands that are binding on everyone. It's a recorded history of the debates among rabbis about how to understand and apply the Torah. So in other words, you'll have Jews who say, "I like this rabbi." And that will lead them to accept certain things. You'll have other Jews who say, "I like this rabbi." And that will lead them to accept other things. And so Daniel, you just live in this f you live in this fantasy land again where Jews are just sitting around uh complaining about Jesus all day and thinking about how they can uh murder Christians and so on. Um, he said the third temple will bring about the Antichrist. You still have no clue what you're talking about. There are Jews who believe that. There are Jews who believe that they can't build the third temple until the Messiah comes, which if he's not coming is never going to happen. So you have a variety of views. Actually, most Jews don't want that to happen, even in Israel. So, um I don't know. I don't know how you think everyone's on the same page. Of course, if if you actually looked at the statistics, Daniel would not care. They're all lying. They're all secretly plotting. Um, he he brings up why I tour Israel. Because I can. I would love to tour Mecca. I'm not allowed. And if I tried, I would get my head chopped off. So, I'd love to tour lots of places. I like Israel because of the because of the biblical sites. That's it. I there there's various places. You can go to the Mount of Olives and see where Jesus was. You go around Jerusalem. You go to the Temple Mount. It's awesome. Awesome. I I encourage everyone if you can to take the trip. It's really cool. Um, he says, "Jews do think about Jesus. They do sit around." Okay. If you're just Daniel, I've known a lot of Jews. I've known a lot of Jews. Um, I still have never seen any that sit around uh whining about Jesus and and thinking about him all the time and that's what that's what they're obsessed with. That's a delusion for people in your group. And I don't I don't just I don't mean Muslims here. I mean anyone who who thinks that they're Jews hiding behind everything and so on. Um, he says he he thinks Jews it's a standard thing for Jews to just spit on Christians. Well, I asked Christians about that when I was there. Hey, what's this? What's up with with these Jews spitting on Christians because that's what people like Daniel circulate all the time. They said, "Yes, there's one tiny minority radical extremist sect that does that and other Jews generally don't like them." So that's the notice that's the reality. But you you can't tell Daniel that. No, they're just lying to you. They all do it. Okay. How come I was walking around Jerusalem with a big bling cross on, no one ever so much as looked at me wrong? I went to a bar mitzvah while I was there. You could say, "Oh, because they're trying to impress." They had no clue who I was. It's not like, "Oh, David Wood is here. What planet do you live on, dude?" Anyway, um, he said, he said, "I do say all Muslims are ISIS jihadis." Anyone ever heard me say anything like that? I've never said it. I've never even thought it because it would be false. I started studying Islam and he asked me, "Why Islam? Why are you focusing on Islam?" You know, you want to know why I'm focusing on Islam? Because my best friend in college was a Muslim. That's why. If my best friend in college had been a Jew, maybe I would have started studying Judaism. If he had been a Mormon, maybe I'd have started studying Mormonism. I started studying Islam because my best friend was a Muslim and he was trying to convert me to Islam. And so I started digging into things. When he became a Christian, I actually thought, "Cool, I'm done with Islam cuz I'm not interested in your sources. I feel like I need to take a bath after I read the Hadith." And so on. About a month later, after he converted, he got his first death threat attached to his car. And then people started challenging him and threatening him in various ways. And I said, "You know what? I can't I can't just that's my friend. I can't just let him take the heat after he converted." So I kept dealing with and then over time I realized Muslims make really cool Christians. And I So I wanted to keep dealing with Islam. Why? Because it's it's it's two things. It's one it's it's the hostility towards Christians that you have in Islam and the the threat that Islam poses to the world. But the flip side was Muslims make really cool Christians. Why? It's it's actually tied to the hostility uh against Christianity in Islam. Muslims are taught from the day they're born that the worst possible sin is shirk, saying Jesus Christ is Lord. So that's the worst possible sin. That's a guaranteed one-way trip to hell. They understand that they may have to give up their families if they become Christians. Their families will shun them. And if they're in a certain area where they actually apply Islamic law, they'll get their heads chopped off because the penalty for leaving Islam is death. But here's the positive side. When a Muslim says, "You know what? I've been told all my life this will get me sent to hell, and it may cost me my entire family, and it may get my head chopped off, but you know what? I want to know the Lord Jesus Christ anyway." That is someone who will lay down his life for Jesus. And that's why I focus on Muslims. This isn't about hating on Muslims or hating on Islam. Anyway, he says, "Jews do believe Jews still believe in the Talmud." My goodness, dude. Get just you. You want to come and talk to some Jews with me, man? I'll do it. I can set it up. We can go talk to some Jews and you can get out of this little bubble and stop looking at uh just Twitter clips all day. Um, he said, "It's not just some minority." And as his evidence, he said, "Look at Hollywood." As if what some Hollywood producers are a reflection of what the average Jew believes in Israel. Daniel, you're pretty out of touch. Um, oh, he he was still asking what what's my view. I I don't know how much more clearly I could say it, but I said it in I I said it earlier. No one comes to the father except through Jesus. But even though no one comes to the father except through Jesus, I'm still commanded to love everybody. I'm still committed to love everybody. So I'm not saying, "Ah, you don't believe in Jesus. You're all going to die or something like that." Never never crossed my mind. How much time do I have, James? Okay. So I'll just conclude with again the command of Jesus. If you want to respect Jesus, if you want to respect Jesus, who by the way was a Jew, just so you know, Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Jesus said he was going to die on the cross, rise from the dead, and he said that he is the divine son of God. So if you want to respect Jesus at bare minimum, bare minimum, believe in Jesus' death for sins, his resurrection from the dead, his divine nature, and oppose false prophets, the prime example of of which is Muhammad. We will switch into the closing statements. So, couple of quick notes is if you could do me a favor is wait until we are done with both of the closing statements before lining up for the Q&A and then because we do want to keep our promise to the venue, namely we're grateful that the church has allowed us to have these debates here, the conference here is we want to make sure we wrap up the Q&A by a decent time. So, at this point, I would say we'll, as mentioned, start with the people who didn't get to ask your questions last time. And we're going to try to have it be more mixed. But I would say if you happen to have a question that's come from this debate, um, we'll try our best, but I would say it's probably good to have low expectations on whether or not we'll for sure get to read it. We'll try our best. And that way, if we don't, you're not surprised. If we do, you're pleasantly surprised that we got to because we do want to make sure we uh keep our promise to the venue, the church here. So, with that, I have the timer set for five minutes. The floor is all yours, Daniel, for your closing.

David repeatedly says that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the biggest threat to Christians, to the world. How can you say that when you openly admit that you haven't studied Judaism? You haven't said because you're not interested enough to look at these other uh religions. So, how can you say that Muhammad is the biggest threat? You're openly and professedly confessedly ignorant of other religions. You haven't read these passages of the Bible or the Talmud, I'm sorry. So, how can you say that Muhammad is the greatest threat? And also, how can you say that Islam is the greatest threat? Muslims haven't genocided five million Christians in the past hundred years. It's not Muslims that have done that. Uh, it's another demographic that has done that. So if you're talking about the actual uh blood of Christians, it's not Muslims that have spilled more of it. It's another demographic that you're scared to death to mention. And when it comes to the faith of Christians, Muslims haven't attacked to the extent that atheism, liberalism, communism, all of these ideologies have inflicted on Christian faith. That is a much greater threat by any objective measure than anything that Muslims have put out in the English language, which as you know is very limited. It's of different degrees of quality. How is that the threat to Christian faith? Not a culture of degeneracy, a culture of blasphemy against Christ and the Bible and the word of God that is being spread from every phone through music, movies, entertainment. That's got to be the biggest threat. And I'm not saying that that's all Jews. Jews did everything. That's not what I'm claiming. But they are overrepresented. And there are other demographics that are represented in that as well. Why is that not the biggest threat to Christianity? David doesn't really explain this. Uh, David said that oh the big disrespect to Jesus if you don't take his words as God or you don't take his words as gospel in the Bible. This is the ultimate disrespect. Well, a lot of people do that not just Muslims. Jews themselves they don't respect the words of Jesus. They don't respect the New Testament. They think it's an abomination. They think it's idol worship. And I I made the contrast that Muslims actually allow Christians to practice their religion. When Muslims are in political power, they allow Christians to practice their religion as dhimmi, the protected people. Jews don't allow this. When Jews have power, and we can see this in modern-day Israel with the persecution of Christians, and they're openly saying it, yeah, laugh all you want. They're openly saying it that we are being persecuted. Even Tucker Carlson is interviewing these Christians and they're saying that our churches are being bombed. Yeah, laugh at churches being bombed. The oldest church in Palestine has been destroyed by the IDF. Yeah, that's a big laugh riot if you're a slave for uh Israel and Judaism. Um, he says, David says, "Oh, I know I know a lot of Jews and they never insult Jesus Christ in front of me." Yeah, of course they don't insult Jesus Christ in front of you because they view you as a donkey. They want to use you. They want to use you as a slave so that you can preach to gullible Christians that our greatest ally is Israel and Jews are our greatest friends. They're making a fool out of you, David, because privately this is actually what they believe. And it comes out it comes out through the culture. It comes out through these uh blasphemous productions that are put through books, movies, etc. and it's in their most holy book as well. So that's not something to be proud of that oh you know so many Jews and they never insult Christ in front of you. It's because they are using you. And then finally I wanted to bring up politics because again the biggest supporters of Israel in the United States are the Republican Christians and look at what is happening now with the Epstein controversy. Jeffrey Epstein is a Jewish spy for Israeli intelligence. This has been confirmed. It's been reported on in the New York Times and elsewhere. And he allegedly killed himself in prison. And Donald Trump has covered for Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Donald Trump says the Epstein files don't actually exist. That Jeffrey Epstein really did commit suicide. All of this this controversy is being try being shoved under the rug, under the carpet. And what does this mean? Jeffrey Epstein was trafficking little Christian girls. Little Christian girls being raped by politicians for blackmail material. This is something that's known. The this is what is happening to little Christian girls. But Christians like David have nothing to say about this. They have nothing to say. They have not a little bit of respect or love or compassion for these crimes that are being committed for the purpose of controlling the United States population for the support or the government for this for Israel. This is a shame for the entire Christian nation that this is happening and you don't have the biggest Christian speakers condemning it and condemning the perpetrators of it. And with that, we'll kick it over to David for his five-minute closing before we jump into the Q&A. As I mentioned, folks, if you can do me a favor, wait until we're done with David's speech before you get in line. David, the floor is all yours.

Thank you for that uh breathtaking conclusion, Candace Owens. [Applause] Um, so Daniel says, "How can I possibly say that Muhammad is the greatest threat?" Well, he's not. He's dead. What

I said was Muhammad is the most obvious fulfillment of Jesus uh warning about false prophets. So if you want to respect Jesus, you'd have to respect his warning about false prophets. And Muhammad is the most perfect fulfillment of Jesus claims about false prophets ever.

Um, I have to say Daniel is a kind of prime example of of a sort of secondary reason that you might want to oppose Islam. It it unless he unless he's just getting this from Tucker and Candace and so which I don't think he is. It's a combination. But you read the Muslim sources. You read the Muslim sources. Here's actually what happened. Muhammad spent years in Mecca preaching. But he's talking to pagans and he's telling them because of his belief in the scriptures of the Jews that when we finally run into a bunch of Jews, they're going to confirm me as a prophet. They're going to confirm me as a prophet. He spent years in Mecca. The Jews are going to confirm me. The Jews are going to confirm me. The Jews are going to confirm. He's using this as evidence when he's talking to the pagans. Muhammad got to Medina eventually, and the Jews were ready to laugh him out of town. You think you're a prophet with this nonsense? But Muhammad was convinced because he believed in the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Torah that he was prophesied in there and that it was clear. Well, what does that mean? If the Jews are saying you're not in there and you're a false prophet, if it's so clear as he believed, then the Jews who say he's not in there, they must be lying and they must be evil and they must be trying to lead people away from the truth. And so, hence the hostility and that's when it had that's when it came down to the end will not come until you eventually wipe out Jews. And you can kind of see the fruit of Muhammad, but it's not just towards Jews. It's towards Christians. it's towards um everyone else. Not saying all Muslims are like that. Again, I I don't believe it. Um but Islam does lead to that because you do have that in the sources.

Um, so as far as uh respect, I'll just uh kind of conclude with this. I do want to point out though um statistics here, most recent statistics we have, Israel's Christian community is growing 84% satisfied with life here. They're not just all hovering in terror and surrounded by people spitting at them. The Christian the Christian community is growing in the Middle East where Israel. That's that's not that's not that's just a fact. That's just a statistical fact. So if you want to say, hey, there are problems that Jews shouldn't persecute Christians, that Christians shouldn't persecute Jews, that Christians shouldn't go after Muslims, that Muslims shouldn't go after you, you want to say any of that, great. But just don't make stuff up. Stop making stuff up. You discredit yourself in the long run.

So, as far as our actual topic, which you know, we've only kind of touched on here and there as far as the respect, which religion respects Jesus more? Ju just think about it. Um, Muslims read passages in the Quran that say, "No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another." No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another. And they read that and they say, "You s talking about a burden of sin." And it's a response to Christianity. Christians saying, "Jesus died for your sins." Muslims read, "No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another." And they'll say, "See, this is this means no one can bear the burden of another. Each person just has to pay for his own sins." Not what the verse says. The verse doesn't say, "No one can bear the burden of another." The verse says, "No bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another." In other words, no one who already has a burden of sin is in a position to say to Allah, I'm going to bear this other person's burden of sin. So what door does that leave wide open? The door of someone who has no burden of sin laying down his life for others. So we're talking about respect here. At the end of the day, the message of Islam is that the one person, the one sinless person, the one person who could bear the burden of all other people didn't do it. The message of Christianity is that the one person who could bear the burden of other people, who could pay for the sins of others did. So, which religion respects Jesus more?

Thank you very much for that closing statement. [Applause] As mentioned, we would like to uh we just have to have everybody back up to the piece of tape. The piece of tape would be where the line starts is what I do need is we're going based on the kind of the honor policy here. Who was uh next up in line? I remember you I remember her. I think you're I remember you being around there. I was very There was a there was a is that Oh, there you are. Okay. Okay. And then um if but we do have to have everybody back up to the the line, the tape line, please. And then we'll start our Q&A, but you don't care. So, let's roll. Forgive me. It's the only reason we have the tape is just so the camera can get you in focus. I think we should be good. Sean, there we go. All right, we're ready for the first question.

Asalamaikum. Um, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, uh, my name is Jordan Garcia. It's a pleasure to be acquainted with all of you here today. Um, it's an honor to be standing here before, uh, Daniel and David, both of you very high esteemed gentlemen. Um, I love every one of you here and I respect everyone here, uh, seeking after truth and wisdom above all things. U my question to both of you guys uh has to do with love and respect. The question that I have for you and it's okay if your answer is no or negative. That's fine. We each have our own different worldviews. But my question to the both of you is, do you love and respect your opponent? If yes, why? If no, why? Thank you for your question. Neither either of you want to go first.

Sure, I'll go first. I don't love David. I don't respect him. I feel feel that he is intellectually dishonest. I feel he's morally compromised. I think he's outed himself as a Zionist agent in this debate. Um he is not he can't bring himself to say maybe hopefully in the rest of the Q&A he can say one word of compassion for the Palestinians. Just one word of compassion for Palestinian children who are starving. Uh maybe it'd be great to hear a condemnation of churches being destroyed. Literally not a single church left standing in Palestine. Maybe he could say something, anything. Can you, David, uh to give your feelings of condolence towards Christians in Palestine? Or do you think that because they're Palestinian, they're not equal to white Christians or black Christians or European Christians or American Christians? Please give one word of kindness to the Palestinians for their suffering at the hands of Israel. So I don't respect David because he is intellectually dishonest. He seems to be morally compromised. He seems to be an agent. That's the problem. And in Islam, we are not going to love people who are evil. We are not going to love people who justify a genocide and make jokes about it, who uh are intellectually dishonest to deceive the masses with cheap propaganda. We don't love people like that. Um but yeah, that's my answer. Thank you.

Um yes, I love Daniel. Respect would be a different issue. Um he said I'm intellectually uh dishonest. Uh not not to my knowledge. There there are times when I'm joking and so on and I'm not serious and I'll say all kinds of things. Uh but at the end of the day, it's just like it's just like when he falsely accused me of saying, "Oh, Muslims are ISIS jihadis and so on." That's false. And it's something I would never say because it would be dishonest of me to say. I know that's false. I've known too many Muslims who aren't ISIS jihadis to even think that all Muslims are ISIS jihadis or something like that. Um, as far as one word of compassion for Palestinians, absolutely the the Christians and the Muslims, they are in a terrible, terrible spot where they are being used as pawns by terrorists who use them as human shields and the terrorists understand, hey, we'll go launch some huge attack on Israel. Israel will retaliate, will be hiding safely underground and leave the women and children above ground. Uh to be clear, um I wish Israel would be more careful a lot of the time because there is a lot of collateral damage. So I agree, you know, when I when I see uh when I see dead kids and so on, I'm like, I wish you would have been I really really really wish you would have been uh more careful with that. I understand they're in a really really bad position over there. Um, but yes, Palestinians, as far as the ones who aren't terrorists and so on, they are in a terrible spot. When their church is bombed and so on, um, or when people are bombed, if it's if it's some sort of collateral damage or something like that, well, that happens in war. Not saying don't be more careful, but that sort of thing. I think uh I think a third of the or was it 2/3? Was either a third? I think it was 2/3. No, it was 2/3. twothirds of the casualties in World War II were civilian casualties. That's just the reality of war. If you're dropping bombs on people, that sort of thing happens. And to fixate on Israel as the only one when they tend to be they if you look if you look at the statistics, they tend to have a pretty good success rate of being careful when you understand the kind of urban warfare they're dealing with. when people are again launching an attack then running and hiding so that civilians actually get killed. In other words, they're at war with a group that wants to maximize civilian casualties. That is a nightmare situation for uh anyone. But at the end of the day, as far as uh Palestinians who aren't terrorists and so on, who like to live normal lives, I hope they get to live normal lives. But I'm just convinced that that never ever ever happens when their leaders are terrorists who are going to keep who are going to keep attacking and waiting for the retaliation because they're maximizing civilian casualties. So that's what I that's what I'm going to focus on as far as Daniel saying I make fun of uh starving kids and so on. No, I make fun of the situation when you s when there are a bunch of fat people saying people who are fatter than I am saying oh we're starving and so on. Yes, I will make fun of that because I'm clearly not starving and if you're fatter than I am, I really really don't believe you're starving and I think you're lying.

We'll go to the next question. All right, we're going to go from Muslim Christian. So, Oh, you're right. Thank you. Sorry about that. Okay. Uh what we'll do is if you can jump on over here and then we're just going to back up the line a little bit and that way as you ask your question, people will be able to see you guys too and that way you're not off screen when you ask them. So, we'll have you kind of chill over there, but then once you're once we have you come up to ask, we'll have you here. Hi. Hi, David. This is for you. Um, this is my question. You uh put up some slides earlier that you said uh when you described uh Jesus in the Quran, he's the Messiah born of a virgin, a spirit proceeding from Allah, his word, so on so forth. Very respectful terms. Um in Galatians 3:3, it say states that this is these are Paul's words. Christ redeemed us uh redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written, cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole. So my question is has Jesus become a curse for humanity? Um and is this the curse of the law? the law, the same law that he was there to fulfill and that he told the Jewish person who asked him how do I achieve eternal life and he said follow the laws and the commandments. Go ahead.

Um quick correction when he says follow the law and the commandments the guy says he have then he says uh go give everything to the poor and then come follow me. So that was not the that was not the end but as far as Jesus becoming a curse uh thank you for that introduction to the gospel. Yeah, check out check out the Apostle Paul. The reasoning the reasoning is we are because I mean a matter of fact, it ties right into what I was saying uh about the one person in history who could bear the burden of others did. According to Christianity, Jesus takes our curse upon himself and becomes the curse. He he takes that upon himself at the crucifixion. You can say you don't agree with it, but that's that's what Paul is talking about. It's not haha Jesus is cursed. It's he took our curse upon him. That's exactly what he's saying is Jesus is cursed. I can give you this. He took our curse upon himself. And I don't look at that and say, "Oh, that's disrespectful." I look at that and say, "Wow." He says he became a curse. He didn't take it upon he became a curse. Yes. By taking our sin upon himself and accepting the punishment as as was prophesied in the Old Testament. I do have to I can give Daniel if you want to do a rejoinder. Otherwise, I do have to go to the next question.

Ask her. I want to just point out that uh David lied about the Christian population in Israel increasing. It's actually decreasing. The only countries in the Middle East where the Christian population is rising is the UAE, a Muslim country, and Saudi Arabia. And the source for this, if you want to fact check me, ongoing Exodus tracking the imig immigration of Christians from the Middle East by T. Johnson and G Zurlu in published in 2015. the population of Christians in uh or the percent as a percent of the population. The Christian population is declining in Israel and increasing in the two Muslim countries. Daniel, if you want to say I'm wrong or that there's more recent information or something like that, say I'm wrong. When you say I'm lying, I've got it right here in front of me. Israel's Christian community is growing. 84% satisfied with life here. Prech Christmas study finds high education. It's CBS. It's CBS reporting a study. Um but maybe maybe they're maybe they're controlled by the Jews. So they're just lying. We'll go to the next question with that.

Okay. So, so this is for Daniel. Following your usual pattern in previous debates, you cited many people, yet did so almost exclusively through deceptive partial quotes such as neglecting to say state that John said that though the Jews acted against themselves and against their children, yet this lover of humanity, Jesus, did not hold their own sentence against them. He did not confirm it upon their children or even upon them. Rather, he received both from them and from their children those who repented. He counted them worthy of good things beyond number. You also harp on the antichrist and call on John of Damascus to be your witness. But he said that Islam is a superstition of the isshelites, which to this day keeps people in error, a forerunner of the antichrist. Since you are lumping together all members of a religion, and since Islam has uniquely murdered Christians on a scale and across centuries unmatched by any other creed, causing the word genocide to be invented because no existing word covered your acts. How dare you claim that Islam has any respect for Christ, the son of God, Lord of Lords, and King of Kings, whose faithful followers you murder for their faith to this day. But I'm the one who But I'm the one who's dishonest, right? What What did I cite that was dishonest? Like nothing that you cited contradicted my claims. John Chrysstm might have said Jesus didn't condemn the Jews in his words, but John Chrysstm certainly did. And the other church fathers that I cited certainly did condemn the Jews. So nothing you actually cited uh contradicted my citations. John Damascus not believing in the Antichrist. So what? I didn't claim that he did.

Is we'll have our next question from the line that has questions for David in particular ready for you. And then folks, like I said, we have a lot of questions. So, um, we're going to try to move as fast as possible, but we do want to let you know we do have to wrap up on time tonight. Okay, David, this is for you. Um, so you claim Jesus is God, right? Do you believe that? Okay. So Jesus revealed uh the Torah and the Old Testament to Moses and the that revelation the Old Testament is from Jesus, right? Yes. Jesus Jesus has a human nature. So if you're talking about Jesus, then that would that would be Jesus is born. Talking about the divine nature, then it would be the triune God of the Old Testament and New Testament, which is Jesus because there is a trinity. So, so Jesus revealed the Old Testament, right? The divine, the divine son. Okay. Okay. The second person. So, let me quote from the Old Testament, right? 1st Samuel 15:3 from the New King James Version Bible. Now, go and attack Amalecch, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. Okay? But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, oxen, sheep, camel, and donkey. Is this the mercy of Jesus? Is this how you're portraying Jesus as a person who or a God or a prophet or a messenger who would command an army to go and kill infants and nursing children?

Interesting that you're once again condemning the Old Testament when Allah tells Jews and Christians that we have no ground to stand upon unless we stand fast by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to us. And so I would listen to all that and if you condemn that then I regard it as you just condemned your own God and your own prophet. Um, if you want a response to that, uh, there is this ongoing issue um in the Old Testament. I'm not saying this is correct, but there there is an issue. Every group that is supposedly wiped out in the Old Testament somehow appears again later, a couple ch somehow appears again a couple chapters later. So the question is why? But there has to be some sort of hyperbole going on because if a group is completely wiped out, they're obviously can't they obviously can't be around later. So you had the Midianites, they supposedly the Midianites, they supposedly get wiped out. Later on in Judges 6, the Midianites come and they are they conquer Israel. So, what's going on there? Um, another issue is when you have these commands in the Torah about going to the land of Canaan and wiping out the population and so on, those commands to wipe out the population are used interchangeably with drive them out slowly, little by little and some. So, anyway, the point is this is kind of a little like what's going on here? Are the are the authors insane or something like that? Even when you get to 1st Samuel 15:3, go and wipe these people out. David has to go and deal with the Amalachites later in the exact same book after supposedly wiping them all out. So notice according to 1st Samuel 15, Saul goes out and wipes out all he obeys the command. He goes and wipes out all of the Amalachites until he gets down to one AAG and he's the last one and he keeps him alive and then Samuel shows up and says, "Hey, what are you doing? You can't leave this guy alive." And then kills him. But as he's killing as he's killing him, he says, "Just as you made men, just as you made um just as you made mothers uh without child, so your mother's going to be without child." Which is very interesting because he was supposedly the very last Amalachite. Even in the passage, there's his mother is still alive somehow. Then again, the Amalachites show up later in the same chapter. So here's the issue. You've got uh the commands to wipe people out are used interchangeably with driving them out of the land. Then you have all the groups that are said to be wiped out suddenly appear later on. And the third issue is that everyone writes like this back then. In other words, they describe military victories as complete exterminations of the population and so on. Matter of fact, that that even happens with the Jew. They say they um that you have you have claims that we completely exterminated the entire population of Israel. Well, that that didn't happen.

Defending that genocidal verse. Give you one quick. Are you defending a genocidal verse which orders a people to kill infants? I don't know if you didn't listen to anything. I'm saying um I'm saying you have you have three issues again. You have three issues here. When you read the text, you see this brutal command. Hey, massacre all these people and then they're still there after they supposedly been wiped out. This should make you go, hey, what's going on here? What is going on? There has to be some level of hyperbole. Meaning, if you say, "Hey, we wiped them all out, but they're still here." here. You obviously didn't wipe them all out, even if it says you wiped them all out. So, what's going on here? You have various ways of rate. You have you have Why don't you listen? You have various ways of trying to get to the bottom of this. One is that this is a form of hyperbole, which was common among writers of the time that you describe military victories, even if you're going out and fighting an army, as the annihilation of the entire population. Is that what goes on here? Well, that that that kind of fits with the groups being wiped out and still being around. It fits with using commands to drive people off the land as interchangeable with completely wiping them out. To us, those would be two different things. Uh so the idea certain some scholars conclude that this is a form a common form of hyperbole in the ancient world and that it's it's kind of similar but more extreme to us saying, you know, my football team slaughtered your football team. We don't you don't imagine someone who doesn't use hyperbole coming along 2,000 years later and saying, what they slaughtered them? What? It's a game. Why'd you slaughter them? Okay, that's how we use language. So I'm not even saying that's correct. I'm saying I don't know what to make of that passage because I don't know. There are scholars, there are people who think that it's a form of hyperbole. There are people who think it's literal. I'm not making a judgment call on it. So, I don't know. I don't know what the situation is.

So, just to clarify, David's double standard here. Is this on? Uh he says he quotes a hadith with the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him saying, "May your mother be bererieved of you." Oh, look at Muhammad. He's so violent. Even though that this is an actual expression in the Arabic language, it doesn't literally mean may your mother be bererieved of you or deprived of you. But if Jesus in the Old Testament says wipe out all the infants, kill everything, salt the earth. Oh, that's okay cuz it's just hyper hyperbole. Nothing crazy about that. And by the way, they didn't kill all the infants. I mean, they killed a lot, but not all of them. So really, was it a genocide? This is his standard not only for Palestine, it's his standard for the Old Testament. That's what Jesus is teaching. And you have nothing uh negative to say about that, but you want to pretend like you have a problem with the prophet Muhammad saying, "May your mother be bererieved of you. This is ridiculous."

Oh, Daniel, just so you know, I I wouldn't have a problem if that's if that's a if that's a common expression and you can show me that, then I wouldn't have a problem. If if it's like a yama joke or something like that, I would I wouldn't have a problem with it. But the problem is I don't I don't see that as But if you can show me, yeah, I dropped the objection. Prophet Muhammad wasn't saying literally to them, may your mother was. You sound like a jerk thing to say because he's talking to his own father. Why would he say that?

I do want to jump into the next question. My question is for Daniel. I'd like David to comment as well. Uh Daniel, in your first rebuttal, you made a very interesting comment. You said, uh, can David have the respect to actually prepare for the debate topic at hand? I am very confused because I can't figure out what the debate topic is. you seem to be debating should Christians be Zionists or not or are Jews evil or not or something along those lines. So my question is did you propose a topic of should Christians be Zionist and David did you agree with that topic and maybe James can clarify as well what the debate topic was supposed to be.

I can answer that. Like I was preparing a debate that got into other issues, but the more that I researched David's hypocrisy when it comes to Israel and his total lack of regard for Palestinian life, even when it's Christians, said this is on topic. This is about theology. This is about respecting Jesus. Whether you view him as God or you view him as the messenger, this is very relevant. And I pointed to something very concrete and specific. How can you call it respect to Jesus when you are uh basically praising working with uh the people who insult him the most, hate him the most, who are working for his nemesis, for the antichrist to come into existence. This is a massive contradiction and that speaks directly to the disrespect. Because if it was just about, oh well, we say we Christians say Christ is God. That's more respect. And you Muslims just say he's an amazing messenger and the Messiah. Oh, who's really respecting? That's not really something concrete and objective. I can say to David and Christians, hey, why do you have this kind of alliance and love for Judaism? This seems to contradict respect of Christ. David can't make that kind of accusation against Islam or against Muslims. That's why he lost this debate.

Yeah, I'll go ahead and comment now. Uh Daniel challenged me to debate um which religion respects Jesus more and I agreed because I thought that was a interesting topic. But I mean it's it's just really weird that that was just sort of an in to complain about Jews because think you're not you're not saying does is is David Wood more respectful to Jesus by siding with Zionists or something like that. It's it's the religion. It's the religion that that we're talking about. Is Christianity more respectful towards Jesus than um than Islam? I was talking about Christianity. Most of my presentation was about Christianity and how the theology has evolved. That was most of my presentation. I have debated Jews directly and I wasn't debating Judaism here. I was just showing you what their beliefs actually are, what the Talmud actually means, but I was mainly debating Christian theology. Yeah.

So ju just to clarify just to clarify why don't I spend uh every waking moment complaining about Jews like uh certain other people there's a lot of problems in the world guess what the entire world's attention is on that everyone's following it it's it's all over the media what is me focusing on this going to add to the discussion um just to clarify if something is if someone's injured by collateral damage again I I hope people are as careful as possible and so on people to death is not collateral damage starvation is not collateral they're starving Jewish captives today. What are you doing? Anyway, uh yeah, but here's the thing. Two million people being starved, dude. Listen, like listen to yourself. Here's the thing. Everyone's focusing on that. What do I add to the conversation? There are Christian There are Christians being Why don't you pay Let me There are Christians being slaughtered constantly, relentlessly in Nigeria. No one reports on it. There are Christians being slaughtered in various places. How many how many thousands and thousands and thousands of of of people Muslims and non-Muslims died in Syria and Yemen and so on. Problems all over the world. Why is Israel the only thing that matters? That seems like a weird deranged obsession. And so are Muslims like controlling the news reporting on this needed in that whole thing? What are Muslims in charge of these TV stations not reporting on Nigeria? No, the Jews are and they keep reporting it. Weird cuz they control the media. You're the Jews who control the media so obsessed with complaining about lack of trying to trick us. You're the one who's complaining. Why is there lack of coverage a little bit more Christian suffering? Yeah, that's a good question.

All right, gentlemen, we've got a All right, we're going to move to the next question and no more of this. I've got two questions business. Okay, here we go. All right. Uh David, you said in part of your rebuttal that the Quran is the only book that talks about Jesus not being crucified. Um there's actually early church writings um such as the apocalypse of Peter that actually talks exactly about the the claim that uh the theory that you brought up where Jesus was substituted by somebody else. And in fact this specific uh scripture came before the Quran was revealed. So what do you have to say about that?

Oh yeah, when when uh when Daniel is saying um the ine the um doesn't say that Jesus died by crucifixion I said what injeal that we have doesn't say that Jesus died by crucifixion so I'm not I'm not even I'm not even including that if you're including the gnostic and dositus texts that's that's not that's not in the hand that's that's not in the hands of Christians right but if you want if you actually if you this actually is a much bigger problem for Islam Because the dositus and the gnostics, the reason they concluded that Jesus didn't die by crucifixion is because they only believed that he was divine and don't believe that he actually became a human being. So, so it became an issue. Christians objected to them and said, "Wait a minute. If he never had a human body and he was only divine, how was he crucified?" So, they had to come up with an explanation. And the the explanation was, "Oh, someone else became disguised as him." and then was cruel. The fact that this ended up in the Quran and we know where it came from. It came from people who only believed Jesus was divine and didn't have a human body and then this circulates and then Muhammad puts it in the Quran. That's yet another example of Muhammad plagiarizing things and not understanding what in the world he's plagiarizing because everything about the Gnostic beliefs contradicts Islam. So if you say, in other words, if you're saying that's the true gospel, congratulations. Islam is false. I'll run the Islamic dilemma with that because it doesn't line up. You can you can it doesn't line up on any issue. No, no, it's not. I have to I hate to do this, but we do have to we have to There's a There's a reason these didn't end up as part of the Christian cannon. They're laugh. We know where these we know where these stories came from. I hate to do this. We have to go to the next question. Was it was it you or was it?

So, um, this is not a question from me, but this is a question that was sent to me to ask you um on behalf of Apostate Prophet. He was originally hoping to be here to ask you himself. Uh, but since I don't have the same beautiful singing voice that AP does, uh, I asked Leif to uh read it in his voice instead. Thank you. A uh minor question for Daniel. You claim Christians corrupted the teachings of Jesus, but this directly challenges the idea that Islam respects him, which is true. Which is true. It's a historical fact that Paul wrote Romans. In Romans 9:5, he refers to Christ as God over all. This is one of the earliest surviving Christian writings, mid-1st century. Peter and other original disciples whom Islam supposedly respects affirm Paul's ministry. This is documented in Acts and in Peter's own epistles. Other New Testament authors, James, John, and the author of Hebrews present Jesus as divine. That is what they do. Clement of Rome, who's mentioned in Philippians 4:3 and wrote before 100 AD, speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as distinct persons in unity. So, here's the big problem. If Jesus own disciples, companions, and earliest followers all proclaimed his divinity, then either they have all immediately corrupted his message or Islam's claim is historically false. So to get back to what the debate was supposed to be on, how is it respectful to Jesus to say that those he personally chose misunderstood or misrepresented him entirely and that a man 600 years later without direct knowledge got it right.

Powerful. It's not disrespectful to Jesus. Um, it's disrespectful to those who are claiming that those are his words in the New Testament. After all of the academic evidence shows and proves that the texts have been altered, they've been changed and corrupted. You don't have two manuscripts that um say the same thing exactly with and their major theological deviations even within the gospels that you do profess. So that's the the disrespect to Jesus is not by Muslims. Muslims have simply recognized the fact the objective fact of textual corruption and uh Islam is the Quran is speaking of this. It's disrespectful on the behalf of Christians to continue to propagate this lie and not be honest with yourselves. Go and read a book about the preservation of the Bible, the textual corruption of the Bible. Go read the recent research. Uh it's pretty damning. You know, Bartman is not popular for no reason. He's popular because he's pointing not to his own research necessarily, but he's bringing all these academic this academic research to light and making and popularizing it. So, you need to focus more uh AP I guess is considering himself Christian now. So, my message to him and other Christians is focus more on responding to the academics. Stop trying to divert attention to Islam and Muslims. have the courage to actually confront the main threats that you have to bibl biblical authenticity which are these academics not Muslims. Muslims are just pointing out hey look this research exists and by the way the Quran confirms that you don't believe in the Quran but are you saying that all of these researchers all of these academics are lying people like Mark Smith people like uh others you're saying that they're liars or they're fabricating things. Okay, go ahead and make that case. publish a peer-reviewed paper or a book and we'll see what the truth is. But as it stands, the objective neutral authority says Islam is right about the Bible.

Uh, let me just uh add a quick quotation from Bartman since uh Daniel likes him a lot. Uh Bartman says, "One of the most certain facts of history is that Jesus was crucified on orders of the Roman prefect of Judea, Pontius Pilate." And if that's one of the most certain facts of history, then we have really, really, really, really, really good reason to reject the Quran. We'll go to the next question.

Hi, my question is for David Wood. I understood that the topic of this debate was to be which religion respects Jesus more, Islam or Christianity. Uh, as I sat preparing, I thought, what would be the signs or marks of respect and which ones were not raised strongly in this discussion? And I thought of four and I'll give them very quickly. One is the idea of names and titles that are given to Jesus. Which one respects more? Number two, what about the idea of worship, singing and praise? Which gives more worship and singing and praise of Jesus? Is it Islam or Christianity? Number three, the formal study of his his teachings and words and sayings. Which religion produces more output? Is it Islam and Christianity? And then finally the idea of artwork design and even tattoos. Which of the human pe people who give artwork design performance and tats has more of Jesus on them? Is it Islam and Christianity?

Actually none of these were raised and I wondered if they were omitted for time or because of decision. No, I actually thought about uh in my opening statement going through just the biblical titles of Jesus, but I wanted to focus on some specific areas of disagreement um with certain things and I wanted to acknowledge certain things the Quran says like calling him the word of Allah and a spirit from Allah where the the Quran is actually uh praising him in certain ways. But yes, if you're talking about what's more respectful to Jesus, it's Christianity which has preserved his message and teachings. Um the early Christians ended up worshiping him and praying to him and so on and uh as you pointed out singing singing hymns to him and about him and this is continued um throughout Christianity and then you get to Islam and it's uh yes Jesus is really magnificent in these variety of ways but he was actually let's face it a terrible failure because Allah corrupted the message and The result of course was that by the time Jesus was done there were two there were kind of two kinds of people. There were people who were bowing down and worshiping him as Lord. They're going to hell according to Islam and there were people who rejected him and they're going to hell according to Islam. So, so Allah according to the Quran sent Jesus with the gospel as a guidance for mankind and the result was that everyone is going to hell. So I wouldn't consider that very respectful.

Plenty of Christians that became Muslim. They converted and they carry Jesus's message, Jesus's success because his community are the Muslims. The Muslims are upholding his name. The Muslims are defending his name. Um the Muslims are prohibiting blasphemy against him. If you look at all the countries that where insulting Jesus is prohibited by law as a criminal offense, they're all Muslim countries. But in the Christian countries is free speech. You can insult and blasphem Jesus. So Muslims are the ones who are upholding Christian uh Christ's message and that's why Christ is a success. Go to the next question.

So that was really timely because uh mine is about Muslim. Oh yeah. Mine is about Muslim nations. So since the topic is which religion respects Jesus more and the claim was Islam allows Christians to practice their religion? Daniel uh you know since the Christian view of Christ that is believers are you know the body of Christ we must see how Christians are treated in Muslim nations and after all Daniel actually takes a similar type of argumentation pointing to Jewish treatment of Christians to show how that is a mark against Judaism's respect for Christ. So of course for symmetry sake any type of disrespect to Christians would be a mark against um Islam. So, uh, Daniel, what did you say should happen to ex-Muslims, apostates, and blasphemers during your interview on the PBD podcast? Your question is, what did I say on the PBD podcast? Uh, specifically, what did you say should happen to ex-Muslims, Christians, uh, blasphemers in an Islamic State on the PBD podcast, and what counts as blasphemy?

Yeah, you should go watch that uh PBD uh debate that I had with two Christians including Richard Spencer. And as a plug for the debate con coming in November, I'll be debating Richard Sp or Robert, sorry, not Richard Spencer, Robert Spencer on which one is more authentic, the Hadith or the New Testament. But yeah, people can go watch that debate. I said that within Islam, we have capital punishment for those who apostatize from the religion and we have capital punishment for those who blaspheme the religion. I gave a lot of evidence for why this makes a lot of sense. Uh this is actually the kind of uh law that was upheld within many different religions including different Christian uh churches over history. And it's the purpose of punishing blasphemy and apostasy is to protect the religion so that the religion whether it's Christianity, Judaism, Islam to not be mocked, to not be denigrated, to not be attacked in public, to maintain. So if someone is an ex-Muslim, someone's loses faith, they should keep it private. They shouldn't go out in public and start preaching that I've left Islam or I've left Christianity and I think that Jesus is XYZ is boiling excrement. That should not be allowed in public. That shouldn't be something that should spread and that's why there are severe consequences for it in Islamic law. I absolutely 100% stand by the theological position within Islam within the Sharia to uh execute the apostate within an Islamic government.

So just as an extension of that I had the video but I won't play it because I don't think it would fit on or sound good on the mic. So you know you said in a proper Islamic nation all the laws of Islam and the Sharia as revealed by Allah should be applied not only for apostates but also blasphemers. So simply put, sins blasphemy according to many judicial codes right now in these nations uh include insulting Allah, Muhammad or Islamic symbols uh simply includes you know claiming Muhammad was not the final prophet, converting from Islam to another faith, evangelizing which is a Christian practice that you said Islam allows for Christian practices but we can't evangelize. I can't understand what you're saying. Okay. So uh in in these Islamic countries they consider blasphemy to include insulting Allah, Muhammad, Islamic symbols, doubting or questioning Sharia, converting from Islam to another faith, evangelizing which is an essential Christian practice that you said that Islamic nations protect Christian practices. Uh sowing doubt, asking unislamic questions and critic criticizing the Sharia. So simply put, since yesterday I taught that the standard uh Islamic view of Allah is impossible under an Islamic state by me stating that publicly would I be killed? Uh yeah, if you blasphe publicly uh depending on the cost context of that within Islamic properly run Islamic government, you'd be given due process. And if it was found that you don't repent from that or you don't uh back down from that, then yeah, you'd face uh criminal punishment including up to including capital punishment. Um but you're saying this contradicts my earlier claim that Christians can practice their religion. I didn't say that Islam grants absolute freedom of religion. I said that Islam grants Christians the right to practice certain rights. as long as that doesn't contradict public spaces like evangelizing or going to convert Muslims, that's clearly not allowed within Islamic law. But in terms of practicing your holidays, practicing um teaching your children your religion, uh the different religious rights, the Eucharist, going to church, all of that is under that is allowed as and you're protected people. meaning that if there's an outside force that attacks the government or the country, Muslims have to protect Christians and Jews um because they are protected people. This is very different from Judaism. Judaism says to kill the best of Gentiles, kill the best of snakes, smash the best of snakes. They don't allow Christians to practice as idoltors. They say that Christians should be executed. That's according to Maymonades, the one of the highest Jewish authorities within history and it's in the Mishna Torah. It's in their teaching. And there are Christians today like or Jews today in Israel and they're the majority. There was a survey. I didn't have the uh results to show you on the screen, but it said that a large number of uh Jews want to eliminate Christians from the Holy Land because it's contrary to the Torah. The Torah says that there can be no idolatry within the holy land within greater Israel. So Christians who are living in in Israel or the lands of greater Israel as divine by the Old Testament have to be eliminated, have to be either killed, slain, driven out or they have to renounce their Christianity.

Um one one one quick one quick uh response to that because because it's a perfect example. So uh Dwood no fan of the Telma just to be clear. All sorts of messed up stuff in the Telma. Grant that. But if you're going to quote it, try to quote it accurately instead of massively misrepresenting it based on a meme you got from Nick Fuentes or something. So that claim right there uh kill the best of the Gentiles. The historical background of the rabbi who said it was he was talking about the exodus from Egypt and the so the so the children of Israel are fleeing from Egypt and then the Egyptian army pursues. Now, they reasoned that since God in the plagues killed the animals, killed the animals of the Egyptians, but these guys are riding out on chariots, they reasoned, "Wait a minute. If God killed the animals to punish them, but these

Guys are showing up with chariots drawn by horses, then these must be the good guys. These must have been good guys that God didn't punish. He didn't punish them, so they weren't part of it." And the reason, but the reasoning was, well, what do we do? These are the good guys. These are the good guys of the Egyptians. And it was, well, they're still trying to kill you, so you have to kill the best of them. Right? And this eventually became a warning. Don't join the army because you're going to have to kill the best of people. How does Daniel represent it? Judaism commands, kill all the best of the Gentiles. Is that accurate? I have to say, Daniel, do not ever, ever, ever complain about people misrepresenting the Quran when this is how you treat the Talmud, the Bible, everything you quote. I mean, you just cited one tradition, the most convenient, politically correct tradition, but I've debated Jews, and this kind of apologetic, cheap apologetic doesn't work. You're just reciting what's been fed to you. You can go to different parts of the Talmud that says you're allowed to kill, you are allowed to, uh, kill a gentile if he threatens, even materially, any interest of the Jew. You're allowed to kill them. Uh, there are many passages in the Talmud, and not just the Talmud, but also the Mishna Torah, also other, uh, texts from rabbinic Judaism. We can go through all of that if you want, but don't, don't for me. If you want to debate Judaism, I'm happy to debate you on that. I'll bring all the receipts, but I did not misrepresent anything. We must, we must move. We spent a lot of time on that one. We go to the next one.

Well, I am very disappointed with you, David, to repeat the false teaching of Mr. Daniel, who changed the topic obviously and used the word Philistinians. You know, as anybody who has some knowledge, because the scripture teaches without knowledge, we're destroying ourselves, that there is no such a thing as Philistines. The original Philistinians were Greek. They were the people of Caar. They are the people of the north. They are the sea people whom Nebuchadnezzar destroyed 604 BC, before Christ. And he took the leftover, the young ones, back to Iraq. Now, I'm surprised that Daniel continues to say that they're starving when, in reality, the only two countries who care about them are the Israeli and the Americans. And the amount of aid going there, food and medicine, was taken by Hamas, not one Muslim country in the 56 Muslim countries. I need to finish my question, please. I need to finish my question, please. Not one, not one Muslim country of all the neighboring, not just the ones like Syria and Jordan and Egypt and Libya and Sudan. Not one Muslim country welcomed one Muslim Palestinian family. I'm not finished. Let me get, because you dropped my thought here. Now, Israel, between Gaza and Egypt, we have three walls, much greater than the Trump wall in South America. We hate the Jewish, the Jewish people in the Muslim world, and we hate the Palestinian too, and we're willing to send all the aid the Palestinian needs as bomb and whatever it is to kill a Jew. Even we know that that will kill the Palestinians. We do not have a problem with starvation. We have a problem with radical extreme terrorist Hamas, whom that man you sent him to debate is supporting. If our government in America knows about him and his agenda, he should be arrested. Crimea River. You're, this guy, if anyone doesn't know, he's an agent. He's paid by Israel. He's just reciting lines. He's a token. He's a token. He's a token. He's a token brown person. Oh, I'm an Arab, and we want to kill all Jews. You're, you're an agent. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. We've heard enough from you. Order. Order. All right. Hey, I'm an Arab, and we want to kill Jews. All the aid that we send, all the aid that we send is for killing the Jews. Yeah, I'm sure. Okay. Okay. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down. Sit down, Baldi. Sit down. All right. We need, we need to have order. So, hey, just to clarify, sounds like Daniel might be a paid agent of Israel to make his position look really bad. We're going to go to the next question. Awesome. I look really bad trying to defend starving children. That, that's really ugly for me. We have to, we're going to go to the next one.

I would love both of you to comment on this. I had two questions, but I'm only going to ask one. I consider this more important. Uh, we've been talking a lot about who loves Jesus more. Uh, but most, I think something that's extremely important is, uh, who loves the men of Elzut more, Muhammad? We'll go to the next question. We'll go to the next question. Don't know what you're talking about. Don't know what you're talking about. Daniel, I totally came here expecting you to shoot down the Islamic dilemma. I would convert to Islam. You failed miserably. So, first of all, I'd like to say wrong debate. Uh, well, whatever. Um, so anyway, I'd like to say that first of all, the Quran has corrupted your mind terribly. You don't understand Christ. Just to be sure, this goes to a question. Yes, sir. So, since you went off the rails with Israel, would you like to address the, uh, Muslim minority that the Chinese Communist Party chooses to enslave? Yeah, unfortunately, there's a lot of mistreatment of Muslims in China. Yeah, I definitely advocate for the Muslim minority in China. Uh, their rights being stripped, uh, by a, uh, communist party. Yeah, I condemn that. I think it's terrible. We'll go to the next question.

This one, by, by the way, little, little side note, notice you, you never, you'll have occasional protest or something about that. And like the, uh, for the, for the Uyghurs, for, for the Uyghurs. Yeah. No, the point is, the point is that at the end of the day, um, Muslims don't complain nearly as much about China because they, they know it just doesn't work in China. It wouldn't work with the, it wouldn't work. And so, focus on the Jews. I'm, I'm not in China. I'm here, and I, you don't know my record. I have plenty, I have plenty to say about China. I have plenty to, Okay, who's speaking here? Was the question addressed to me? Like, David said something to me. I'm responding to it. The peanut gallery needs to pipe up. Daniel, I've spoken plenty on China, and the scale of the genocide in Palestine is like nothing that we've ever seen in our lifetimes. The scale of the killing. Look at pictures of Gaza. It's being completely wiped out, destroyed. There is not a single structure that's standing within Gaza. Two million people have been forced into concentration camps and are being starved to death. And you have nothing to condemn about that. We have to jump. We have to jump to the next question.

This one from this one for David. Uh, how do you interpret Netanyahu when he referred to the Gaza people as Amalekites? I, I just want to know how you interpret that. Um, I, I don't know. I'd have, I'd have to, I don't know. I mean, if, put it, put it this way. Put it this way. If I had to, if I had to, if I had to guess the, the reasoning, the reasoning for attacking the Amalekites was that they were constantly attacking Israel and, okay, we finally have to, to deal with them or something. But I don't know. So, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to comment. Yeah. The verse that Netanyahu was citing is exactly what you discussed earlier from the Torah, to wipe them out, to erase them, to kill their women. That's what Benjamin Netanyahu cited. That's what Benjamin Netanyahu cited from the Bible. Can you say, "I don't know what, I don't know what that means"? As, as intellectually rigorous as this is getting, that's really smart, David. We got to go next.

All right. All right, Sean. It's growing. Great. You're brilliant. Sean, this means if I ever do this, Sean, this means you got to cut their mics. Okay. All right. So, we're going to go to the next question. Okay. For Daniel, uh, you seem to be have a lot of contention for the Talmud. You called it repulsive. So, I'm just going to read two short quotes and then ask my question. "If all the seas were ink and all the reeds were quills and every person was a scribe, they still could not write down everything that I had read and taught." Second quote says, "If the sea were ink for writing the words of my Lord, it would not run out before the words of my Lord were finished, even if we refilled it with its sequel." One of them is from the Quran 18:109, and the other one is from Avot D'Rabbi Natan 25:3. Why is your Quran quoting this repulsive text amongst many others I can cite that you would not approve of? I, I don't understand this Christian IQ problem. Just because I cite a text doesn't mean I agree with everything in it or disagree with everything in it. What I said was disgusting about the Talmud were the verses saying that we have stoned Jesus the Nazarene and flung his corpse, hanged his corpse as a sign for people to mock. That's what I found disgusting. And I didn't hear David specifically talking about that. I didn't hear David talking about the boiling and excrement parts of the Talmud either. That's what I cited as disgusting. Or calling the virgin birth a mockery. Oh, she was actually having an affair with a Roman soldier. That's what I call disgusting. And it's very shocking that none of you Christians have anything to say about those parts of the Talmud. So what is this IQ problem? Just because, here's a helpful hint. If I cite an academic paper or if I cite Bart Ehrman, I'm not saying everything Bart Ehrman says is true and correct and it's God's truth. I'm just citing one thing that he says as common ground for someone who is not a Muslim to understand an argument. Why is this so hard for you, uh, Christians to understand? Um, check, check. Okay. So, the therefore, well, I'll sit down after this. Therefore, you are confirming in agreeing that that section of the Quran is not the words of Allah, but the words of the repulsive Talmud. Thank you for agreeing with that. Yeah, that's what I admitted there. Great point. Come on, let's be mature debaters here, Daniel. We'll go to, oh, just, just wanted to, uh, add real quick. So, I, I have to be hostile because here I'm sitting in front of these people, Christians, mocking me and laughing at me. So, I'm going to give it back. I'm gonna mock these dysgenic degenerates. Your gut. Your gut is hanging out. Your gut is hanging out of your shirt. I don't want to see that. Wear a bigger shirt. I don't want to see your gut. We've got to, we've got to refocus. We've got to refocus on the Q&A. I want to see that fat dude. All right. All right. In the front row. Relax. Order. Order. Order. Yeah.

Just wanted to add a quick thing. Just wanted to point out, Daniel, if the Talmud says something messed up like that, I do, I do condemn it. I do condemn it. The thing I don't do is say here's what all Jews are basically obsessed with, uh, reciting all day. And the point there, did I say that? What did I say? All Jews are obsessed. I said there are Jew, even Jews who, so there's that. But, uh, if you wanted, if you wanted to quote, if you wanted to quote in the Quran from the Talmud, it's actually one of the most, one of the most commonly quoted Quran verses on the planet, Surah 5:32, where, uh, it's where I've seen lots of Muslims quote it and say, "If anyone kills a man, it's as if he's killed all mankind." The, the full quote is, "Allah gave to the children of Israel that if anyone kills a man, it's as if he's killed all mankind," which is interesting because that's not in the Torah, that's in the Talmud. So, your God seems to be a fan, at least of parts of the Talmud. Definitely not all of it, just to be clear. We'll go, we'll, uh, we'll go to the next question. God bless you, David Wood. Appreciate you being here. So, my question, oh, sorry about that. My question is, in this debate, it was supposed to be obviously, we all know that it's not been about how people view Jesus or who views Jesus the right way, per Daniel, whatever argument that you had. But when the argument is supposed to be how or who views Jesus in the right light, it was stated earlier that we view Jesus in the light of, obviously, he's God. We, uh, exalt, exalt Jesus. We do everything that you would do for God towards Jesus. David Wood pointed out what Jesus has stated through our scriptures and that we follow, saying that we're supposed to love our neighbors, we're supposed to love our enemies. Why is it that when it comes to the Islamic view, going back to the debate before and tying them both together, it states that we're supposed to follow our books, which we do, but you're not following your book by following what it is that Allah has stated in his book. And also when it comes to how you view Jesus, where is the actual understanding of your respect for Jesus when you are calling Christians the worst of creatures? When you are mass killing Christians in Nigeria, like David Wood brought up, and things of that nature. Where's the actual, where, where does Allah say in the Quran to love everyone? Where are you getting that from? I don't recall ever reading any passage of the Quran that says love everyone. Islam doesn't have unconditional love for all. Like that's not an Islamic teaching. So, okay, I don't understand your question. Uh, let's, all right, we'll give you one more time if you want to clarify. Okay.

So, what I'm saying is in our scriptures, it states that we're supposed to love our enemies. Your scriptures say we're supposed to follow ours. So, we are showing follow who? Our scriptures. Going back to the Islamic dilemma. No, Islam. This Quran does not say follow the Jewish and Christian scriptures. Nowhere does it say that. It says those scriptures have been corrupted. It doesn't tell Muslims to sorrow. It does not tell Muslims to follow the Jewish and Christian scripture. I didn't say. All right. Hold on. One just. All right. We have to have order. We do want to just one at a time. Is, yeah. Hey, let, let me see if I understand. You're not saying, "Hey, Daniel, why don't you love your enemies?" You're saying if we're talking about being more respectful to Jesus, then Christians are following Jesus when we love our enemies, and the Quran tells us to judge by the Gospel, and therefore we would be following Jesus, and Muslims would basically be saying we're not following Jesus because we're not following your gospel, and therefore something like that. Yeah. Right. And per what you were saying about, uh, the issue in the African countries of the Muslims that are killing Christians, they're again going against what it is that you would think is love because we're following Christ. We're doing what it is that we're supposed to do. But Muslims are like, "Nah, forget that. We're going to kill you." Also, much like James brought up when it comes to the apostate rules and everything else like that. So, we actually are showing love where Muslims seem to be like, "Okay, well, y'all showing love to Jesus in the manner in which he asked us to, so we're going to kill you." Exactly. Amen. Amen. We give you a chance to respond, Daniel. Yeah. I'm still not following. I'm still not following. And the, the Quran does not say to follow the Jewish and Christian teachings or scripture. If Jesus is saying love everyone, and then Muslims are not following Jesus in that, then that means Muslims are not respecting Jesus. So what? Like, we don't accept your, the, what you claim are Jesus's teachings. We don't accept that as Muslims. So how is this an argument against Muslims? We'll go to the next question and then just a little bit more. Oh, sure. Oh, yeah. Don't take it.

I think I can clarify that question if you'd like, which is, um, essentially from what David was saying, uh, you know, in the Quran 5:47, "So let the people of the Gospel, which is us, I think you would agree with that, judge by what Allah has revealed in it. And those who do not judge by what Allah has revealed are truly the rebellious." Right? I know that you say you, I know that you say you dealt with this in the prior debate, but I don't recall you actually commenting on this specific passage. So, I, and I will say if you say that we don't have the prior verses, I have learned something from David at some point, which is a, a rule in ethics, which would say, "ought implies can." So, if you would say that our scriptures, if we don't have them, how am I as a person of the book meant to be able to follow this command if I can't do it? If I don't have access to that book, again, this is only a problem if you say judge by those scriptures to mean judge by everything within them. So that's problem one. It was, uh, dealt with in the first debate. It, this is the equivocation fallacy. The second issue is that the, in Islam, Christians and Jews are expected to follow the Mosaic law within their communities. Again, they're, so when it comes to their, uh, laws, their religious rights, the Quran says, or Islam allows them to practice those rights, and it's expected that they will practice their religious rights as, uh, within an Islamic polity. So, within that con, even within that context, if you don't accept my first explanation, which I claim that's what the verse means on the, on the basis of the context of confirmation and all the other verses of the Quran that address this. If you don't accept that, then this, a second explanation that also solves this or explains it is that Jews and Christians are expected to follow their law and to judge is the Arabic, uh, from that they will judge according to their scriptures within their communities as well. On that, there's a really short and pithy to clarify it to me that would imply that we would be able to more reliably, reliably judge by some man-made scriptures we came up with loosely based on scripture than scripture itself, that you seem to say, I don't know if you said this, and I'm not sure, but seem to say that the, these words of Allah could have actually been altered. Uh, I know you referenced the case of those two witnesses, and I understood that, but I'm like, to me, that's different from you, you talked about the case of the murderers, the two witnesses. I'm talking about, so, um, to me, those two witnesses, that's distinct from saying these are the words of God. We're talking about the God as the first witness, and God as the second. Why would he have different testimony? So, God never says in the Quran that the books that the Christians and the Jews have are the words of God, are the scripture of God. He never says that, as I explained in the first debate. We'll go to the next one.

I think three quick ones. The Torah and the Gospel are with the Jews and Christians, but what do they avail of them? We'll go to the next one. "I believe in you and in the one who revealed you." No connection to Allah. Okay. Three quick questions for Heik. Believe me, this will be fast. Question one, who is respected more in Islam? Is Jesus or Muhammad, or are they the same according to you? No, Muhammad is respected more. Okay. Muhammad is respected more than Jesus in Islam. Okay. Which is a higher position of respect, Muhammad, a prophet, Muhammad, or Allah? Allah is the creator. He's, okay. The creator. He's the one who's worshiped. We don't worship Muhammad. I see where you're going. According to Christianity, what are we worshiping? Are we worshiping the creator Jesus as a triune God? Is that a true statement? Yes or no? No. The creator is not a triune God. Okay. So, your understanding of Christianity is that we are not worshiping. This is from the Christian perspective. One question. What, what are you getting at? Is your understanding of Christians that we believe that we are worshiping Jesus as God, as the creator of the universe? Yes, I guess so. Yeah. Okay. So, in based upon that, which would be a higher position, that of a prophet or that of Allah? Allah is the higher position. He's the greater. We'll go to the next question.

I don't know what that, what that proved. Um, I, I find it odd that you had, uh, brought up the sexual immorality of, uh, of some of these Jews, um, when there are Islamic rape gangs going on in, uh, Europe, and there are, uh, in the, uh, Hadith, I believe it's Sahih al-Bukhari, it says that, uh, that Muhammad had slept with a nine-year-old girl. Narrow focus. What is the question? You, that I was going to say, now, now Christians are just saying, "Oh, nine-year-old, twelve-year-old girl," and that's, I'm supposed to know what that is. There's a question. I'll give you a chance to ask the question. Yeah. Uh, the, the end of that was, what would Jesus think of that? Well, Jesus was born to a twelve-year-old, a twelve-year-old Jewish girl. Silence. Silence. Tell me. You just lied. David, source chapter, verse, chapter of Daniel, a chance to respond. We, we understand. We, we're going to give Daniel a chance to respond. James, if I'm supposed to tolerate a hostile crowd, at least I should be able to give a response and speak without interruption. Don't lie, and you'll be, but to be, but to be fair, we do, we do want to give him a chance to respond. So, go ahead, Daniel.

So, as I was saying, according to your Christian theology, which I don't believe, I think is completely insane and perverted, the God Jesus forcefully impregnated a twelve-year-old Jewish girl with himself, with himself. You can't handle it. You can't handle it, can you, David? You can't handle me speaking. Lying to everyone. You can't handle me speaking. If you're telling the truth, chapter and verse, give it to us. You should be able to give it to us. One second. Okay, gentlemen. All right. All right. Hold on. You got to, ma'am. You got to relax for real. If, uh, if I was running this, hecklers who are shouting down the speaker, they're removed by the, by the security. Yeah. I have to be annoyed when you lie. I have to be honest that like, if I was running this conference, I would start considering asking people to leave because we do like shouting from the audience. They're sitting in the front, and they're shouting me down. You can only allow so much. So, what we're going to do is, okay, when I just said shouting from the audience is a little bit too much, and you start yelling from the audience. Okay, now you're going to interrupt me while I'm trying to talk. You're trying to talk over me. You guys just hold. No, no, hold on. Listen. I'm, all right. I'm, listen. If, listen, hold on a second. Just for real. Okay, listen. I understand. I understand you're, you're excited. You're like, but the world. Okay, you're normal, but the idea is that, is that we can come back to this point. This idea, I appreciate that everybody's excited and passionate, but like, just take a, a deep breath. Listen, I'm seriously, I'm asking you to. No. Okay. Goodbye. Okay. Hey. Hey, L. I'm getting ready to tell him to leave. Yeah, we're way past that point. I, listen. All right. Listen. We'll get. What we're going to do is, I understand that sometimes we think that someone is lying. Is that even in the case of David, I'm not trying to come down on you, David, but like, if Daniel's saying something, and I understand that you're thinking like, "Come on, he's lying. I have to intercede." Is that to follow the same way we've done it, the same format is we'd let him finish, and then you'd get your rebuttal, like you had to kind of say like, "Come again." Okay. To be fair, what I'm saying is, we'll give you your chance to respond to Daniel. But it is, to be fair, like he's just trying to give it was, remember, the question asker was asking Daniel, and then Daniel was trying to answer. And I understand that you think that what he's saying is wrong. Is that, it is fair that we at least let him finish what he's saying. And then, to be clear, Daniel hasn't interrupted me tonight at all. Oh, I agree. Like, we've had, I thought, I thought, I thought it was more open. I'm only pointing just this instance out because things have started to get heated between this lady and this lady yelling in the front row. Is shame? Is that shame? Is that, uh, can you let James at least finish? Is that for real? Like, uh, I appreciate people's passion, but just take a deep breath, folks. Like, if you're excited right now and you're just like, "Oh, I'm so mad at James." Like, just, just relax. Like, I, like you guys, even like, I'm not David. It's not like I'm not trying to come. You could just wrap it up, James. It's like 9:20, so. Is it fair we can just let him finish, and then you can respond? And I agree, David, or Daniel has interrupted you as well. I'm not saying he didn't. Okay, let him finish, and then I'll call him a liar. Unless he gives chapter and verse, in which case I'll be shocked. And that's, that's it's fine if you do that. I just want to let him finish saying what he's saying. So, you asked for a source, the Protoevangelium of James from the second century. It's an apocryphal gospel written around the mid-second century. It's one of the earliest sources to provide details about Mary's early life. It states that Mary was dedicated to the temple at age three and lived there until around age twelve, when she was betrothed to Joseph. While it doesn't explicitly say that she gave birth at age twelve, the implication is that she conceived shortly thereafter. And the quote from chapter 8 through 9 of this apocryphal gospel, "When she was twelve years old, a council of priests decided to turn her over to a guardian and found Joseph." Uh, so in Second Temple, in the Second Temple Judaism period, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls, girls were typically married off shortly after puberty, twelve to thirteen years old. I also want to read to you what it says in Luke 1:35, "The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.'" That doesn't sound consensual. It sounds quite terrifying. The Most High will overshadow you to impregnate you with himself, for which he intends to sacrifice. So, every time a Christian wants to insult Islam and insult the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, don't cry when we give it back to you. Don't cry when we cite these passages, when we read from the Bible, and we say that this looks like divine rape. This looks like divine forced conception. So, this is not something that we believe, but this is what your theology implies. Now, obviously, David disagrees with a lot. I want to give David plenty of time to respond.

All right. So, a couple things. Uh, didn't Allah impregnate Mary in the Quran? So, all right. Yeah. So, uh, you, so, so you got that in the Quran. He just condemned the Quran. Um, and condemned the spirit of Allah who showed up and, uh, apparently raped her, according to, uh, Daniel. The, the, find me a Christian who believes in the Protoevangelium of James and what it says. So, a couple things, couple things. Uh, I'll, I'll, I'll keep it short. So, one, as Daniel pointed out, yes, it doesn't say she, uh, was impregnated at twelve, just to be clear there. Uh, so he's reasoning, he's reasoning, well, it would have been common. Uh, I P has done the research, and the average age of first marriage at that time was around eighteen to twenty. So, uh, if you wanted to just do the math, that's, that's, you, you'd have to, if you were guessing, you'd have to say something like that. Uh, third, the, the, the, the reason for saying this was it became an objection to people who believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. Well, wait a minute. Why wouldn't Joseph have sex with her after Jesus was born? So, so they started coming up with stories about how Joseph was really, really old, and she was young, and he was marrying her just to protect her because she needed some sort of guardian. And what's interesting is in the story, when they tell Joseph, he, the lot falls to him, and, and they say, "Joseph, you have to take her." And his response is, "Everyone's going to think I'm a pervert if I marry, if I marry a girl so much younger than me," because according to the story, he's really old. So, it's absolutely hilarious that you say this is Christian theology. No, I've never met anyone who takes this seriously. And you describe it as Christian theology. That's just deceptive. Again, all right. One second. We're just going to do. Don't worry, everything's cool. We're just going to take a L. Asked me, she asked if, uh, we could do a just a quick two-minute break. So, just like two minutes if you have to quick get a. Oh, that's perfect. I have to go. James, if I have to go pray myself. So, okay. So, we'll let Daniel go pray, and then if you have to use the restroom, David, now is a great time, and then, um, wait, then we continue the debate, or what? Then there are maybe a few more questions if you guys have the energy for questions. You want to wrap up? But if you guys, but to be fair, honestly, I'm getting heckled. How about one more? How about one more question, and then we can talk to people afterwards. And it's not even the debate topic. They're asking just questions about Islam, and they can just watch material of mine instead of having to reiterate all of this. So, I think I'm done for. Hold on. All right. All right. Just one second. Hold. Is that to be fair, like I did tell both David and Daniel that it would be a 30-minute Q&A. 30 hours. I think it's funny that I told him it'd be a 30-minute Q&A. Okay. Is that L asked me if I would let them go longer, and I'm like, "Sure." Like, "I'll stay as long as everybody else wants to say because I'm happy to be here." So, to be fair, like to be like, "Oh, Daniel, you're not going to go past what, what we promised. Like, we told you it'd be 30 minutes, and now we want to go longer. You're not going to go past that." Is I just like, you know, come on. Let's give him some credit for coming out where he knew like 99% of the people in the room would disagree with him. Is, um, I, I do, and the only reason I'm kind of favoring Daniel, I, I do like both of you. And so, before I let you go to the, to pray and to go to the bathroom, is like, I really do like both of you as people. We, like, we've got relationships where I'll let you go to the bathroom, David, but I just want it to not be, I just want to. It's okay if we have to wrap up. I think it sounds like you're pretty good. You're like, "Bro, I'm pretty tired." Is that I think what we would do is if you have questions for David, is it okay? Like, that's cool. If it's not having to do with your content, are you feeling kind of? You're just going to ask questions and mock my position and Islam, and I can't respond. So, I do stop persecuting poor. If we're going to be like here for, it's already been an hour of Q&A. I think it is fair that we do wrap up just because, like I said, I, uh, I think you guys know that like I'm like, I'm not like a Muslim. I'm not like, "Yeah, let's, let's side with David or Daniel." It's just that we did promise 30 minutes. So, um, so I think that is fair. I do want to welcome Al up, and then let these guys both go to the bathroom and then pray for Daniel. Is I really, thank you guys. This has been like a, we've really gotten close during this. Um, I know, I know that it's been so heated, and I know that I've called you out personally and been, but I just, I do appreciate your guys' passion. The thing is, like, we weren't throwing fists. It's passionate, and I think it just shows that people care, like, but they, like, that's why they're fired up. So, I do want to hand it over to Al. But, uh, Seek and Share Truth Conference, folks, if you're watching online, it's linked in the description box. We just appreciate that they would have Sean and I. So, Sean is the tech guy. The reason, if you're watching online now or later, that the reason it looks so great is because Sean's like a master at this. So, um, I'll add Sean's link in the description too, in case anybody wants to say, "Hey, could you help us do a stream?" So, uh, because Sean's a master at it. But want to say thank you again, just for having us at this conference. Ellen, it's you guys. I got to tell you, Eric, is I got to tell you, it's been like these debates have been just amazing. So, thank you, everybody. Thank you, David and Daniel. And you guys can be dismissed while we wrap up. Okay.

So, um, just out of curiosity, because I think that this has been a really, uh, amazing opportunity, who here by raise of hands, uh, came here to support someone primarily out of curiosity? Okay. And who here by raise of hands came here primarily to seek truth? Okay. And who here primarily came to share truth? By raise of hands. Okay. Now, by raise of hands, did everyone accomplish at least one of their goals? Okay. All right. Well, thank you guys so much. I really do hope that this has been helpful for you. Eric, do you want to say anything to that regards? No. Thank you guys so much for joining us. I really do appreciate it. Do remember that as we are seeking truth, we are really seeking the truth, the actual truth. The one who said he is the way, the truth, and the life. That's who we're seeking after, regardless if you recognize it or not. But that said, thank you guys so much for all of your different perspectives. We really love hearing from you. It's important that we're able to critically examine each other. And so, thank you guys for bearing with us as we've extended these questions. And thank you, Modern Day Debate, for allowing all this to take place. Uh, and Sean and, uh, Daniel Hiku and Dr. David Wood. We really appreciate each of you. And, um, I think that that's going to be it for this stream, but anybody in person, we've got some extra fun stuff for afterwards, kind of going through why we do what we do, and then getting to hang out if you guys have more questions for anybody who's staying. And yeah, thank you guys, and God bless.