Alex Hormozi Mastermind August (1-Day Recordings)

Name, business, what you want to get out of today. Cool. We will start with you.

>> So, name, my name's uh Corey Prince. My business is Google AdSub, but I won as an affiliate actually. And uh >> thank you. >> Thank you. Yeah. And I'm starting my I'm launching my community as soon as I finish here. And what I want to get out today, I just want to learn how to scale it and, you know, generate the most cash collected up front is kind of what I think is probably the best way to be able to run ads and continue to scale.

>> Shoot. So, my name is Jacob Kiman. My business is this world of dissemination, and I just want to learn about churn, and we have a big churn problem right now, and kind of to see how we can tackle it. Uh Gio with Jacob, we both operate in this world of simulation for El Knocker. Um Churn is one thing. The other thing is growth a bit more automated. So he's got a big audience on YouTube and we're doing a lot of brute force, a lot of sales scores and stuff to get people in. But we want something a bit more scalable.

>> My name is uh Filipe. I'm part of the affiliate formula uh where we teach people how to, you know, make money with Tik Tok as as an affiliate. Um, and then my goal today is to learn a little bit about conversions, how to upsell people from like, you know, a low ticket to a higher ticket.

>> All right. Uh, my name is Nicholas Fowler. Uh, same thing, affiliate formula, teaching people about Tik Tok shop affiliate. And biggest thing I'm looking at is learning how to grow out of separate than organic traffic, but also ads and more of a I guess more just general sense of other opportunities of getting organic and paid traffic.

>> Uh my name is Austin affiliate formula as well. Um I think biggest thing learning from competitors either listening from the ones who are doing better or you know in general simplify sorry

>> Can you say the last part again it's good um yeah yeah just simp simplify learning from competitors the ones who are doing better than us differentiating how about that

>> So today you want to learn from competitors here

>> Not the ones here.

>> What can we help you with today?

>> Our direct competitors that are at the same same market.

>> What can we help you with today?

>> Sure. Learning how to learn from those guys. What what information can we take from them that's worth >> taking from those guys versus >> differentiating?

>> Cool.

>> My name is Patrice. Um, I'm a copywriter and so I really want to learn how to delegate and build a team around that service and then also what opportunity is bigger right now, coaching versus like service- based offer because I'm kind of doing both right now.

>> Okay, it's a common one.

>> Shoot.

>> All right. My name is Eddie Eisner. I'm part of the bunker where we teach about social media automation. Uh, and today I want to learn how I can optimize what's already in my community so we can get more high ticket conversions.

>> Yeah, my name is Martin Popso and I'm with the banker as well where we teach people how to make money social media. I would like to learn about just more about high ticket, how how we can scale uh to maybe like 100k with just high ticket alone.

>> Low ticket to high ticket.

>> Yes, sure. My name is David Davis. I'm with the bunker as well, teaching social media automation. I just want to be able to maximize my opportunity while I still have it at school and stuff.

>> Make more money on school and stuff. Okay.

>> Go for it, Evelyn.

>> Am I?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> No, that was the complete answer. Make money.

>> My name is Evelyn. I help mostly coaches, crosscreators and beginners to start monetizing the personal growth journey. My approach is the start with ads first and I help um tackling the growth journey from that angle. And I would love to clarify my offer for the speedrunners today and what uh operational structuring tool um builds to carry bigger volume.

>> All right. Correct. Okay.

>> I'm Laura. I help people create their own stationary products like I did.

>> I saw your business. Really cool.

>> And I struggle with figuring out how to set up the funnel. Like, do I have a free group? How do I structure it all so I can have ads and organic um traffic at some point?

>> So funnel for ads for this.

>> Yes. And how to because I want to have like big head, long tail is my >> my goat.

>> Yeah.

>> And how to do that? So I can still automate it with ads. So that's where I have

>> If only there were someone here that you could sit next to.

>> Yes. I know. I know she hates this word, but

>> Okay, cool. So, final for ads.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Hi, my name is Ruben. I'm with TC Inner Circle and we help you get better at trading. Um, the main thing I'm looking to get out of today is how to scale with organic and also bit of paid and then some conversion mechanisms to get them into the community.

>> So, I'm going to put that here just with scaling. and then ads to grow with organic.

>> Hey, my name is Dion. I am uh helping people with day trading becoming profitable. Uh what I want to get out of today is clarify the offer more so I can serve not only like 30 or 40 people but hundreds so it's more scalable.

>> Mhm. Hi, I'm Dylan with the school masterass. Um, we help people make money online with school

>> and stuff.

>> Say again.

>> And stuff. So, I can I can lop yours in if that work.

>> Um, I would just like to know today if you could talk about like how to make a no-brainer offer specifically for the school games in October.

>> Yeah. um you know scarcity, urgency, risk reversal, but also more so how we can incentivize people to like buy now instead of later and what other bonuses can we give on top of a price drop to just really make it like no-brainer so we just can maximize October.

>> Yeah, there's I actually I'm glad you brought that up because that's a something that's been top of mind for me lately is like obviously I had the I wrote a book somewhat on that topic. Um uh and I feel like it's actually had like a full cycle like came the book came out and then there was just like everybody was making all these crazy offers and then I think the essence of what makes a good offer has somehow become diluted. And so I feel like it's kind of like time for a comeback of reminding people that it's not about adding more stuff, but again making sure that it's more valuable.

>> Exactly. Yeah. Thank you.

>> Yeah.

>> So, um, my name is Hayden Bun, and in my community, I help online business owners get clients from YouTube. And the main thing that I want to get out of today is like what data to look at for content. So like landing pages, um, conversion rates. So like what data to track if you have an organic-based business to bas know that you're like what are your KPIs?

>> KP yeah really about KPIs.

>> Okay.

>> And then also how to like combine um like a hybrid offer with coaching service base um and just how to like make that into either one or like two offers.

>> So coaching versus service. Yep.

>> I'm Thomas. I do affiliate marketing. And I would say I want to learn about long-term brand building.

>> Okay. I'm Nick and I'm with Thomas as well Stealth Creators and I kind of just want to know like how to position our offer and ourselves in the market.

>> I'm Enrique and I'm with Jespus. So we teach Google ads drop shipping and uh

>> Google ads for who?

>> Sorry,

>> Google ads for

>> drop shipping.

>> Drop shipping.

>> Yeah. And so the thing that I want to learn is prepare the proper foundation for future exit. So how do you set that up and um how to scale without trading too much of your time as well.

>> Good luck. So yes, my name is Jasper. I'm the creator of 90 days to online freedom. We teach people how to make 1k a day within 90 days using only Google ads. Um and we I would love to learn today how to make an asset from the whole community itself. So it's sellable. It's maybe so I can trade no my time for money anymore. So it's Yeah. Yeah.

>> My name is Simon. Um I'm with Jesper and Enrique working on 90 days to online freedom. U I'd love to learn more about uh what Aiden mentioned. So KPIs for the organic um low ticket, high ticket, ascension um and then what like are the other offers that we can make on the high ticket. like masterminds, um stuff like that, how we can maximize LTV and uh obviously we've been talking about ex exiting uh like creating a an asset or business.

>> Yeah, Well, so my name is Reuben. My community is Master Marketer. We teach other people how to start and scale a lead generation agency, but our brand is called Apprenamos Marketing where we teach like marketing for small and medium business owners in the Latan market. And what I want to get from today is how we can better create a full ecosystem of products because we don't have a high ticket product. I don't want to do services. So I want to do something else and I would like to find a way to create a good high ticket offer, a good low ticket offer and then have the community in the middle of all that ecosystem. So I don't know if that's the proper way to do

>> No, that'll be good because I think we'll talk about high ticket offers just because they're asking for it too and so we could talk about different types of high ticket offers so that you can peel off pieces that you like.

>> Hola, I'm only doing that because you did that on the calls. Uh, I'm Maria Pita. I'm here from the affiliate site. Uh, but now that I'm here, I want to I'm here because I want to get I want to do a networking club online that is the best networking club ever because it's on school and it's for business professionals who want to organically grow uh their social media presence with an emphasis on school. So, I want to build a high ticket offer which I have no idea how.

>> Okay. Um, and then I want to get crystal clear on who because the thing that I have the hardest time is how to know who my avatar is. And then everybody in the room that I uh surveyed last night, they think my offer is not is not a good offer.

>> So, I would love to know how to make it amazing.

>> Sweet.

>> Yeah.

>> My name is Brady. I'm with growthoperator.com. Um,

>> Nice URL.

>> Huh? said, "Nice URL.

>> Appreciate it." Um, I'd like to know how you and Sam make better decisions. Feel like I've had poor judgment over the last like year. And uh, yeah, it makes me feel better. We had like five split tests on the landing page and four out of the five all lost.

>> It was more like 14 out of 16.

>> Yes,

>> you can make something worse when something's working. the odds of making it worse are higher than making it better when you change it.

>> Like I know that for sure. Like yeah,

>> it's like regression to the mean. And the problem is that you just don't know how well something is working until you try five other things that are all supposed to work and then they all don't work.

>> I literally like at by like whatever the sixth thing that we tried, I was like I officially know nothing about marketing.

>> Yeah. I add FAQ and testimonials to about page, conversion goes down.

>> Seriously, I was like, that's just like a check the box. Which then it brought up some good discussion for us internally that I think the vast majority of split tests that people like especially the internet marketing community are just complete [ __ ] It's like they they had 100 I had 100 clicks to this page and this was the winner. It's just like not even close to statistical significance. And so it's just like a bunch of people saying this is the winner and then it becomes kind of mysticism and magic that of course you do these things but we looked at it and it just wasn't

>> we needed 32,000 clicks on each variant to get statistical significance.

>> So that's 64,000 clicks. So if you declare an AB winner on a 100 clicks

>> that doesn't mean anything. Yeah.

>> And then we we were talking about like well how many people actually getting that kind of volume to their pages? And the answer is probably just none. And so most of the stuff that's being proliferated is just fundamentally not malicious, but just incompetent. It's just not true.

>> Well, that's almost 100 grand in traffic.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> For a to find an AB winner, right? So, yeah.

>> So, yeah, we'll see what we can do to help out on the decision stuff.

>> My name is Eddie. I'm with growth operator.com and I'm looking to learn more about brand building.

>> Sweet. Um, rock and roll. Well, I'll tell you the one that I want to start with so we can kind of go from there. Um, but I actually want to talk about this one first. Uh, because this has been like super top of mind for me. We just launched uh the season of madness. Um, and it's had a, you know, a significant increase on our throughput for our advertising. And, um, Kirby and I were looking at, uh, different things for the speedrunner of like what kind of elements of the offer we can help people kind of kick off with that is going to be the most compelling. And I had a third instance of this. So, it feels like I've had like three things in the last 30 days that have been top of mind. Um, but Gym Launch uh ran a giveaway offer and um it sucked and they were like, "It didn't work." And I was like, "Yeah, the giveaway sucked." Like no one cared. I was like, "You gave away a lead magnet as a giveaway." Like no, it's like like grand prize giveaway a lead magnet. Um, and I'm like I I raz the guys, they know it's fine.

>> What? Like a PDF or something?

>> Uh a little better than that, but basically, you know what I mean? Like it was just

>> like a word doc.

>> Yeah, it was basically it was the No. So, we had uh so we had a downell for people who who basically couldn't afford uh gym launch. It was like a gym blueprint for getting your gym started. And so, I think they were giving that I can't even remember, but it was basically I think it was something to that degree. Um, that is probably like a $4,000 product. But for for our avatar, you know, they're coming in at 40. So, a $4,000 thing is not the is not this like amazing thing that now everybody wants to give all their information for because they can't wait to win it. Um, and so, you know, we it's like I don't know why this didn't work or like like no one cares. And so I think that um it feels like a good time for like especially if if school leads the way with a lot of stuff um to get kind of back to basics of what are the what are the key fundamental things of value, right? Um, like we're giving away a Cybert truck that a lot of people have shown interest in that and so, obviously you don't have to do that but it should be scaled to your avatar. Um, and fundamentally the easiest way to do the math on any kind of offer, especially if you're do like this is me obviously I'm talking about giveaways because two of the three things I'm I'm saying are giveaways, but um any lead magnet in general is fundamentally a giveaway. Uh it's just not you're basically saying everyone could get it in exchange for uh contact info rather than uh having one prize winner, but then still everyone still gives you their contact info for a chance to win it. And so, uh, I think that giveaways are even stronger than the traditional free play. Uh, they're so strong that they have to be, uh, regulated. Uh, there's a reason sweepstakes, raffles, etc., like the government intervenes because it's so [ __ ] effective. Um, and because people psychologically have survivorship bias and assume that they disproportionately will win. Uh, which is why lotteryies even exist because people could comprehend what one in a hundred million chance is, they would never buy a ticket. it just feels like ah maybe I'll maybe I have a chance. Um, and so all that to say uh giving away something that is excessively valuable specifically things that actually have real value. So like a car has real value. People know that we don't have to say like and imagine the value of this vehicle. It could get you from point A to point like people know what a car does, right? And specifically a car that has some status associated with it. It's like even cooler. Um, and like what gym launch, so I told them I was like, "Next time you do the giveaway, do this." Which was we'll out your entire gym with new equipment, right? Sexy as [ __ ] for a gym owner. Like that's real. And every gym owner, you know, is broke mostly because they have an addiction to gym equipment. And there's a reason that I have half a million dollars of gym equipment in my basement. Like it's like what I like to buy. Um, and so for them it's like that's almost better than cash because it's like, "Oh my god, that's amazing." Obviously you can do the cash equivalent. Um, but the math behind it is simply like based on whatever you spend, if you can get, let's say you spend $10,000 a month on your ads, if you give $1,000 in cash, if it gives you more than a 10% improvement in your uh rorowaz or your CTRs, so if you go from one to 1.1 in your CTR, it's worth a thousand bucks. And that scales all the way up. So you're spending $100,000 a month uh and you think that this can improve you by 10%, but a lot of times it'll improve by way more than that. It might be like a 30% improvement or 50% improvement. And so it's like I'd give away 50 to get the extra you basically the 50 50% improvement in row eyes. But this is where this gets really interesting. So when you're because a lot of you guys so this is going to kind of cross into scaling. So a lot of so the the the company that spends the most money um per day um that we have in the portfolio spends I think we spend 150,000 a day. Is it more than that? What is it?

>> That's 150. Yeah. So, we spend 150 a day in the large portfolio company. Um, and I say that to set the stage that there's like just levels to ad creative. And so, if you've seen like you're like, man, you know, we can spend a,000 bucks a day and then we hit this cap and then our, you know, our rorowaz just falls off the cliff, our CPA goes through the roof. A lot of times it's two main things which is one is the quality of the creative which is like how strong is the hook, how tight is the ad, um how how well sequenced is you know are are the value propositions inside. Do we have proof that's you know uh inlaid into the ad really quickly? Um with some sort of visual pattern interrupt in addition to the hook that's uh verbal like all of those things. It's it's kind of like when you're driving a a car 30 m hour if you're off by a little bit you don't really notice it. But when you're spending 150,000 a day, it's like those tiny little improvements are what make or break the entire campaign. So number one is the creative. The second thing is just again the fundamentals which is the offer. And so if you have this unbelievably compelling offer, all of a sudden it unlocks another level of spend. And so you actually keep your 4:1 that you had before except you go from spending 10,000 a day to 50,000 a day and you keep your 4:1 because most everybody here you would be fine at the same rise you have now. You don't need a better rorowaz. you're like, I just want to spend more money at this rise before it falls off. And so, like, that's what that unlocks uh in terms of the offer than the quality of the creative. So, anyways, this has been top of mind for me. Um, but the things that make the the no-brainer offer value valuable is real value. Now, this sounds obvious, but I'll say real retail value. Meaning, not this is so good, someone would pay for this or should pay for this, but more so people do actually pay for this. People do pay for cars. People do pay for one-on-one time. Like, those are things that people understand as intrinsically valuable. And so I think um that has been wildly underused is because everyone's so concerned with making their offer scalable, but they forget to make their offer valuable. That's a nice little hitter. Crush that. There's my tweet of the day. Um, so make sure that you have real retail. Trevor, write that one down so I can tweet it. Um, so re real retail value. And again the big thing is going to be um speed. So how fast someone can get a result. Uh ease and then lower risk. Those are the three kind of like uh the three elements right? So if you have perceived likelihood of achievement that means it's low risk. If it's fast sorry if it's fast it's uh low time delay means speed. Uh little effort and sacrifice means it's easy. So um those are just kind of like the easy elements. And then obviously those translate into the value that people ascribe to it. So if you have something that is really fast, really easy, and guaranteed, people will pay a lot of money for it. So, for those of you who are not getting conversions on your organic or your ads, just think like what would if someone paid me $100 or paid me $1,000 and I had to give something away that was that no one could argue that was worth that. Not necessarily information, but maybe something else. Because the problem with information is all of it is based on their belief that the information is worth it. like all of all of like education stuff is basically just making a promise that I swear this is worth it, right? Um, and so having other things that have tangible value. Um, like for example with Jim, uh, there was an offer we ran on outbound for a while that we would um basically set up their page and do everything for free for the first 30 days and run the first $500 of ad spend. and as long as we got you act more than x leads you would continue after that. It was like Jesus it's like yeah, we will spend $500 actual dollars on your account and we will build the page for you. So it's just very clear like I know that I have to pay normally to do that but for us cost to acquire a customer if we spend $500 that's nothing compared to the 40k LTV. It's kind of irrelevant. And so it's kind of like the uh sometimes uh to improve show up rates for calls, you can offer like $5, $10 bribes, like Starbucks gift cards, things like that that actually materially increase show up rates. And people are like, "What if they use them?" It's like, "Dude, you're paying 200 bucks a call. Who gives a [ __ ] You pay 205 to get a show. Like, what are we talking about?" Um, but the thing is is because it's still the the decision calculus is separate. Like the lead is like, "Oh, wow. That was nice of them." They're not thinking the same way the business owner isn't thinking it. The lead certainly isn't either. like, "Oh, he paid $200 for me to schedule this call. This $10 means nothing." But they're like, "Oh, that was nice of them." Um, and then it just increases the likelihood they they schedule and show up. And so, um, I think most people could do better with that. If you're a beginner, the thing that you give away is time. And I think this is again the, uh, the unscalable sexy or unsexy unscalable solution that also happens to work. It's like if you hop on a call with someone for three hours and say, "I'll give you three hours of my time for free. People will sign up for it." And then at the end of the three hours, you can make them an offer to have more time or have more [ __ ] from you. But now they believe you because they spent more time with you.

>> And the question, so if that, for example, there's two ways to say it, right? One would be um everybody who buys to one person, we're giving away $10,000 of ad spend, for example, that the campaign is set up for you. Or the other version will be everybody who signs up from your first month who spent $500 of your payment on your ads. What do you think is more effective? I I actually think it's just a test. So like if you're outbound, we had to do one-on-one because they're not they're not entering into some raffle. They're not responding to something. So we kind of had to do it like per person. Whereas, if we were running ads, I think giveaways are are likely to be more effective because then if you think about, okay, I'm going to give $10,000 of ad spend to somebody and you get a,000 leads, it's like you basically gave 10 bucks, but the 10 bucks might not be nearly as compelling as well, I can promise you $10 wouldn't be nearly as compelling as as 10,000 uh for one.

>> Alex, what what do you mean with the uh at the beginning? Um, it's trading time for money at the beginning with the unsexy, unscalable offer.

>> You don't have anything else like like we're going to we're going to front 100 grand in cash before like we're basically promising the 100 grand and like we hope this works otherwise we're out 100 grand. Uh, if you're not willing to make that bet. It's just I'm basically saying scale down your bet according to your to your spend and if you have no spend then use the other asset you have which is time and skills.

>> Yeah, man. What we we used ads and we pushed a special offer where we did like the one-on-one call with me and it went bananas. So we had like we

>> So you stopped doing it, right?

>> Well, we stopped because the delivery is [ __ ] indeed. Like I could be we could end even like number one last month. We we needed to stop because I was like [ __ ] I had like 140 on boarding calls in one week. I was like this this is not doable.

>> 50 sales appointments a day for four years.

>> Yeah. It's in it's insane. I might and I was still doing this.

>> I worked harder. I want to work smarter. Like I want to work smarter. So that's

>> you got to work hard to work smart because you got to know how how

>> when do you transition? So when do you think like because this offer works amazingly.

>> Well, I'll let you know when I transition. I'm being kind of serious. Um fundamentally like uh like the one-on-one offer like things like that. Like I the thing is is if if you start to get more and more status you can still you can spread it out to one on six, one on 10 and basically it's like if you if you extend the time so the oneonone calls you with you were probably what like 30 minutes something like that.

>> Yeah. Right. And so if you do one on 10 for an hour, your ratio is still better, but they're like, "Oh, I get an hour with them." And it might not feel as and most of the time, I'm sure you can probably solve their problem in like five minutes, right? And so then they also benefit from every other person who they listen to. And a lot of times, in my experience, they just get more value. I mean,

>> like we could have had it be you get, you know, 45 minutes with Sam and I and the team for like and we just did these stacked, but I think it's way more valuable to do it like this. And so, one of the other things you can consider is change of medium. So, if you're doing Zoom or whatever, it's like that's one medium, but in person is way more valuable. Same amount of time, more time for them, same time for you, but more valuable for them. Same reason we don't do this as a Zoom call. We could, it would take everybody the same amount of time. It's just more valuable.

>> Yeah. In person's one of those things that people value a lot. Like one-on-one time, I swear in person is more valuable than one-on-one.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. If you had to pick a one-on-one call Zoom versus spending a whole day here but with other people, which would you pick?

>> Yeah, this one. Yeah.

>> I I mean, I would pick in person.

>> Yeah. So, you would value that something like, oh, this is a 50k call and you can

>> I don't even think you need to put the price tag on it. I think people just know what the like it's almost like and this may be breaking Martin rules but I think the rules are more like trends and they go in and out of style. Um, like there was a time when you describe a value and people were like oh wow this is actually a value because he uses he normally sells this for this amount and he's giving this as a bonus but then when everyone was like and this torch is a $10,000 value like everyone just was like oh these values mean nothing.

>> And so

>> you trigger the scam alarm right now if you if you say those kinds of things. Everyone's like, "Oh, scam."

>> Yeah.

>> Because people basically everybody who talks in that way has associated themselves with other people that talk that way. And most of those people or many of those people have bad products. And so if someone's bought from someone who talks like that, they will associate the bad experience of that person with you. which is why I'm so particular about my brand and who I associate with. Like there's a reason that I push honestly the info community very far away because there's so many very bad business owners who are there and it's a lot of time not in it's not maliciousness, it's just incompetence. People are just really new and don't know any better and I don't want to associate with it. But I do very much teach people. I have I'm an educator.

>> Yeah. It's just the mind shift that you need to take because we pushed like a very special offer for the school games. But now we've seen like, oh, wait a minute. This is a really good offer.

>> It's a banger offer. Yeah.

>> So I when I turn on the ads right now, we could spend like 10 or 20k a day just with this offer. And we were like, okay, but this is not scalable. So you want to get it to like evergreen. It's not like scalable. You want to get it to evergreen.

>> Let me let me let me let me push back on this because I think it'll be helpful for everyone at home who's listening to. So, one of my closest friends, like top five friends of my life, um he's a public CEO and over the last 24 months, he took the market cap of the company from it was a smaller company. So, from 200 million uh to I think right now 1.2 billion and did that in 24 months. And it's not like some tech platform. It's uh in real estate, it's a brokerage. And so what he did was he did five events a week for two years. He would fly to every single real estate conference that was happening across the United States and would do a keynote and talk about all the things that they're doing at their company and how their agents are, you know, making more money, whatever. and he would recruit and he took them from like 5,000 agents to 20,000 agents in 24 months. And so I say that because like he wasn't like, man, this isn't scalable. It's just harder. It's not undoable. It's just harder. But I also kind of like that stuff because this is stuff that I know that no one else will do. And in some ways, you could considered a competitive mode because everyone else is going to be like, it's not scalable. Like he he spends all his time doing oneonone. He spends his time doing one days with people who went on his platform. Wow, that's not scalable.

>> So you mean like the feedback that I got back was indeed a lot of people in my niche, they never show up like the creators like oh you got a coaching call with with me and the team you know it's always the people are like whoa it's really you of course it's

>> word of mouth it works and also I'll bet you that when they did the onboarding call from you they stick longer churn goes down.

>> Yeah the journ went from 29% to six.

>> Yeah. No [ __ ] And so guess what happens is again all at least for me is that whatever if you're spending this amount of time to do that, right? It's just what else could you be doing with your time that will make you more money than that. Until you have something that will make you more money than that, it's the best use of your time. When you do have something that makes you more money than that, then you'll do that thing and then you won't mind because that thing is making you more money.

>> Yeah. Because now we notice like I hate the content creator stuff. Like I I love running ads and that's what I love to do. So, I can take down more time with content creation, but just more ad creation. Um, that makes me way more money than just a YouTube video. I can compound it, but Yeah.

>> Yeah. And and the I think the 2011 move is figuring out what already you do for the community. Like we did you guys like the YouTube video I posted, like my most recent YouTube video is compressed one of these days into like three hours. Um, and the video is doing well. You know what I And so that's like like if you can do things that you're already doing and just have it sliced together. Like the team just said, "Hey, can you just film transitions between kind of like talking sections?" And so I did, you know, it took me five minutes to just film the little transitions and then that became the video.

>> Yeah. Shoot.

>> How much do you like repurpose content? Cuz

>> a lot, you know.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> So you're not filming like new content every week. It's

>> No, we film content every week, but we also put out 450 pieces of content every week. just how do you how do you scale that up? Like how do I go from

>> well it's unscalable for sure. I'm I'm [ __ ] um so I think the key one of the one of the big lifts that we get is um multimedium basically the the biggest hack and I've said this before for me is that like my natural believe it or not my my preferred method of communicating is written. So, I like writing. That's why I have books. Like, I enjoy writing. And so, tweets are my That's like when I get like those ideas. I'm like, "Oh, like the thing." I was like, "Hey, Michael, please write that down." Like, "That was good." Uh uh that's my outlet. And then the team will find the best tweets. And then they'll make tweet reels out of them. And then the next time we record, they're like, "Hey, do you want to read this tweet into the camera?" Which creates another tweet. And then they'll put 20 tweets together that are all on sales or leadership or product or you know mindset or work ethic or whatever and then be like cool no BS advice for men in their 20s and it's going to be usually around work or work life balance or whatever. And so just from the one input of me just tweeting we get four or five different types of content and those long YouTubes are also podcasts. And so it's just like one thing that then multiplies across platforms. And then for us, I'm not saying you do this. This is like there's levels to it. But now we have one or two guys per platform. And so they're always just thinking Instagram. They're always just thinking Tik Tok and then they're like Tik Tokifying or you know YouTube each of the individual uh outputs.

>> Okay. I have a couple questions on that dude. Go for it.

>> So

>> So like what is your flow from making content? So, are you writing it on on Twitter and then you're seeing the data there and then you're putting it into reals and then you're seeing that and then you combine it into a YouTube video

>> more or less

>> and you just look at what is working from each

>> Twitter has been honestly the most univer like if it works on Twitter it works everywhere

>> really okay um add another question

>> I think I have a theory around that because words have the least amount of uh flex so like if there's a video I might there might be some tonality the way or like my body language, the setting, the lighting, music, like all of those things can influence whether a video like goes viral or doesn't. But words are just words. They're like the core. They're just like the essence. Like it's just words. And then if I say them, then they also do well. And if we took a p, you know, we p took a screenshot and then we put a picture of me behind it, it also does well. And so it's just like but it's like the core value.

>> Okay. And then also like how do you um I guess structure your tweets because I know like for I guess like funnel pages people just read in like lines like that or at least I mean I do. I don't read like huge paragraphs when I'm reading funnels. So

>> um how do you like structure your writing? So I will try and truncate the question because what it was is like how do you write? Um and so that's a big you know short question long answer. Um, but if you think well one I think what there's a big algorithm thing that changed inside of X that has improved the virality of my tweets which is that they made likes not public. So on X, if you like something, no one knows that you liked it. And so then likes across the platform exploded because and all the virtue signaling likes disappeared. So the people used to like stuff to have people know that they liked this thing. That's gone because no one knows. And then all of the more racy stuff that they do like but don't want to be seen liking has now exploded up. And so what that means is that on X specifically, it's basically incentivize people to make more racy crazy [ __ ] because now more people like it. And so for me, I genuinely think what would I need to write in order to get someone to have an emotional response to this that would then increase the likelihood it changes their behavior. And so that's actually like that's the frame I start with when I have a tweet. And so part of that's like objective because then if I can get them to change the behavior, they do something. They take an action, they share it, they like it, they comment, they whatever, right? Um, now I also do that without getting into the manosphere for the most part. And I do that without getting into yeah red pill stuff and without getting political and so I have like a very small box that I then piss everyone off in. Uh, but usually there's some sort of controversial uh hook at the top. Um, and then there's going to be some sort of um I just think to myself like what's this thing that everyone yells at themselves for? And so the things where I'm like stop being a [ __ ] Come on. Uh, I'm like oh someone else has thought that too. And then I'll just say it publicly. Um, and then in terms of the actual like nitty-gritty of the structure, a lot of that's it's it's something called rhetoric, but bas basically like threes do better than fours and twos in terms of like first you have to do this and then you do this and then you do that, right? Like people there's like a rhythm to what makes something hit. There's also inverses. So what was the tweet I said before? It was like um people are so concerned with making things scalable, but they forget to make things valuable. And so there's there's rhythm to the words scalable and valuable sound similar and they're also apparently contradictory but they shouldn't be. And so that's what makes that interesting right and makes it sharable. Um, and then there's alliteration, there's rhyme, but like this is getting into like how to write. But um I at least for me when I'm writing through tweets I'm thinking through those frameworks is one is this something that's going to emote you know another human being? Two, is there some sort of strong hook at the beginning? Three, is the actual core element of what I'm writing following some sort of rhetorical structure uh that increases likelihood that it sounds or hits well, which to be really clear has nothing to do with the substance of the message. is purely now this is where you get like I'll stop soon because I could talk about this a lot but um it's my belief that if you can get someone to remember something then they will think it's their idea eventually which means that they will then agree with it and then they will do it and so I think that rhetoric is important from the perspective of if you do want to change people's behavior the first thing you can do is get them to remember it

>> yeah I mean I mean I've I've like stated some stuff you've said like mult multiple times. Um, but I've done it because I think it's like valuable. So, that's probably my next question. Like, how do you what do you how can you define like value in either

>> Okay, but like

>> makes things easier, makes it faster, uh, makes it lower risk, whatever their whatever your ideal avatar's outcome is.

>> Okay. Uh, usually you can trace the value back to that. And I think for me, for example, like in person to me is still a subset of multiple of these things. It's like, well, if I'm in person, speed of response will be faster. The likelihood that I get what I want if I'm in person is higher. And so, it's a higher risk or sorry, lower risk, easier, faster setting for communication.

>> You seem to be a master at this uh whole social science thing. What book could you recommend on neural linguistic programming?

>> I have no idea. Never read anything about it. This is like what you're doing.

>> Hm.

>> It's like the the art of like what you're doing. Understanding how to

>> I've just never studied NLP at all.

>> Oh, that's

>> maybe it's like the titling and like they call NLP I just call figuring out the meaning behind words.

>> It's so intricate. Interesting.

>> Super.

>> So there's like any books you can recommend or anything?

>> Not really.

>> No, I'm I'm just being honest. I haven't read any books on it. It was more just like, huh, we all say these words, but we don't know what they mean. And then I say that the biggest single frame, I know we're getting into decision-m, which is you guys. Um, and we're we're we're starting relatively abstract today, which is not common, but we'll we'll get back to Earth. Um, the biggest frame that's been helpful for me in business and life has been thinking every about everything through the frame of action. And so you can cut out like 95% of communication by just saying like what do you want to have happen

As a result of this communication, which means that the vast majority of communication is wasted or irrelevant. And so, for example, in a team setting, you know, if everyone is like, "Hey, we're reporting on these metrics," I, like, one of the things I ask my team is like, "Okay, if this goes up, what does that change about our behavior?" And if there's no change, if the metric changes and it doesn't change what we do, why do we report on it? Why does it matter? And so, um, you'll notice that there are very few things that matter because there are very few things that if this number changes, it changes what we do in this way because people like, "We should keep an eye on that." You're like, "Why? If it doesn't change what we do, why bother?"

And so, you're having an exchange with someone and like you're pissed off, but then you're like, "Huh, how do I increase the likelihood that what I want to have happen happens?" which is a very different frame from like, "I want to get even or I want to smite this person." Which is tough in the moment because you're, you know, you're emotional about whatever it is, but it's like, "What increases the likelihood that what I would want to have happen happens?"

>> Can I ask a question on that? So when you now say, "Okay, I know my offer," right? So what we do, how do you reverse engineer now the actions that, or the the metrics where you're like, "Okay, those are the key actions that my customer needs to perform," and that I need for, uh, is there, do you have a process for that?

>> Yeah. So, um, this, by the way, is just common factor analysis for anything. So whether you want to learn how to make good content or you want to figure out your sales script to improve it, um, the process that I've always run, um, is, let me see if I can flip this page over. This works especially well with with customers. Is you have your, you know, one, just imagine these are, you know, 10% chunks of the business. And so, let's say this is the bottom decile or bottom 10% customers. These are the sad faces that everyone's sad about, and these are the, these are the happy faces, right? So then what we look at is, "Okay, what's different between these guys and these guys?" And so we look at, uh, demographics, which is who are these people, and we look at actions. What do they do? So, who are they and what do they do? And what is the difference between who they are and what they did versus what, who they are and what they did?

And so then, if you look at the easiest way to do this was reverse engineer it from right now. You have, I'm sure you have like your superstar customers, right? And you say, "Okay, what do these all have in common?" And then once you figure out what those people have in common, both who they are and what they did, then that becomes the messaging on the front end. And you say, "Hey, if you're one of these people and you like doing this stuff, blah, blah, blah." And so then you get way more of the right customers. So it becomes this virtuous improvement loop, uh, from a messaging and offer perspective. And then when they come in, this is where like conditional guarantees are helpful, uh, for like service-based businesses. Is you say, "Okay, well, these three things were the common factors that all the people who are successful did. And so if you do these three things, that is the condition of my guarantee." And so it shows very clearly what the emphasis is for the person that, like, "We find this important enough that we force you to do it." But that's how I think they're reverse engineering the, uh, the offer itself for the avatar.

>> So, and when, for example, my most successful customers, they also always supplement the direct response with the email marketing.

>> Cool.

>> Right. So, um, this is why I actually like to set that system up first.

>> Get the automations and all that stuff done.

>> Yeah.

>> But here's the thing. So, um, I have a little bit of a challenge like with then, where do I set the boundary for my service? Because then I also have to teach them, which I can, how to write good emails, right? That's makes a huge difference.

>> But because now when you offer like a done-for-you, right? Or done-with-you, where you take over a lot.

>> Um, where do you can set that boundary? Or do you make that an upsell explaining, "If you feel unsure about email marketing, like I have..."

>> I think you're doing done-with-you right now. You just charge very low ticket for it.

>> We're doing all of that for...

>> To be clear.

>> For the loudest baby words.

>> Yeah. Because you're like, with done-with-you, you take over a lot more. It's like, "No, no, no, like they still do it all. You're just with them."

>> Yeah.

>> Like, like a do-it-yourself is, you never talk to me. You get a login. Good luck. That's what do-it-yourself is. Done-with-you is, and I will be on to answer questions at some interval, some cadence, whether we have chat support, call support, Zoom support, every day. This, that's where the flex of how much help you get is.

>> Yeah.

>> But then you still don't do the work. But I mean, I have a gym situation where it's like, you know, when you, everybody signs up to the gym and then everybody's super excited in January, and then there's the regulars that show up. And I do a lot with the regulars that then also creates the content that the other people consume and it hooks them back into action. That's why it works, right? Because not everybody's taking action consistently. But I found that, uh, work with the people who want to work, it kind of reactivates people, but it also creates like a little bit of a wrong and misaligned incentive, if that makes sense.

Um, but if I was to do it for people or with people now, how would I structure it? Because I know if we can plug the email marketing, the results will be...

>> Way better.

>> Three, four, or 10 times as good as if we don't have it. But then there will be the objection of, "Oh yeah, then I also have to learn this. I also have to learn that."

>> So, how do I make them understand that it...

>> So, I would pro, this is just me talking here, um, if you think that that's super important, then I would probably preload that into whatever software. I'm sure there's already the templates. And then it's like, you just fill out these 13 words.

>> Because like fundamentally, all the, you know, like abandoned cart sequences, follow-up stuff, more or less, it's going to be the same. And so you're like, "Hey, saw that you wanted this thing. Uh, this is just a friendly reminder. If you get in the next XYZ hours, you'll also get cool thing one, cool thing two, cool thing three." And it's like, "Paste this from this other worksheet I had you do earlier." So, you know, like I think if you, you can template a lot of that stuff out to make it, um, simpler.

>> What I could do for them is like give them scripts where I'm like, "I would like you to ramble to these talking points. Then you can pull the transcript and you use this prompt with the transcript and then you get the written email and you send it."

>> Like ChatGPT did.

>> Exactly.

>> I think like nowadays, mediocre written word is not hard.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think...

>> Are you talking about like cart abandonment emails at all, or you mean like email broadcasts?

>> So, it's the nurture emails that you need to send.

>> So, just long-term nurture.

>> Yeah. Okay. To what? Huge difference for the leads. Yeah. So you probably explain what you do, your values, you know, so it's, I think a lot of the, right now, and I don't have as much data as you, but I feel like we have a huge trust crisis. And it's really hard to sell certain info products, um, information, if you don't have that nurture where somebody is specific about what they do and experience, right? And so I've noticed when we have emails where you just process what happens to you on a daily basis and how you think about that in the context of how you help people, you can, uh, like a lot quicker build that trust and you can convert a lot faster because people are like, "Oh, this person is actually doing the thing." Because a lot of people, they don't actually do the thing that they talk about. But then the retargeting campaigns get a lot better because they understand that the person is actually doing, and they don't need to write something sophisticated. They just need to report on what they actually do. Does that make sense?

>> But what's their problem? Is there like conversion rate too low on there? I think the problem is that they, so direct response, right? You can scale to a certain point with people. But beyond that, if you want to kind of unlock that next level, like similar to how you say, you need to tap into not necessarily just purchase conversion bucket, but you also need to have your leads that you've drive closer to the conversions, right? And you can actually get them to buy with relatively low nurture. But that's something you need to do. And that's the problem that they either they overcomplicated, and they, they always think in top-of-funnel content because they don't understand that the ads replace the top-of-funnel effort, right? Because the top-of-funnel content is like, "I need reach." So I'm saying things that get, get me in front of new audiences. But the ads do that for you. So you don't have to do this. You just have to close those little trust gaps so people are like, "This is a real person. They're actually doing the thing." And then you hit with the retargeting ads. So, it's basically just, and that's what I'm trying to teach them. And either they don't get it because they do like a different type of content, or they're like, "Yeah, I don't also want to write emails."

>> But do they need to? Cuz if you just drove ads to your about page and it converted and you're profitable?

>> For sure. Right. But there's a certain like level to which it converts. And then there's a level where it converts like significantly better if we can plug it right away.

>> Oh, if you write the ad, like they, let's say they're writing,

>> I don't know, 10 ads a week. I don't know what, how many ads you have them write.

>> They could write the...

>> H...

>> They could write the, they could write the ad from the...

>> Yeah, that was my point.

>> Cuz why I'm asking this is because we're going to give you abandonment emails.

>> That's the exercise that gets them the ads compressed.

>> Yeah.

>> Brilliant.

>> That's how I do it.

>> Because you're in, like you're in writing mode. So you know what the, like the hooks and interesting stuff are. And also it creates a more continuous experience for them because as a customer or a prospect, they came in from the ad, they just saw this language. Yeah.

>> And so then the next things they see, you can do in the same, even though they feel separate.

>> I think I can go home.

>> There you go. All right. You know, Evelyn, go home. It's been a great run.

>> No, that's brilliant.

>> Cool. Yeah. Shoot. Um, I was going to go back to what you were saying about giveaways because that intrigued me.

>> Say it again.

>> I was going to go back to what you were talking about giveaways because it intrigued me a little bit. Um, but I was wondering for somebody that does something like trading or like, uh, social media automation, where there's absolutely no physical, um, product at all that you can use. Um, what, how can I define or figure out what I could give away to an audience?

>> A trading account has a thousand bucks preloaded in it.

>> Just something like that, essentially.

>> Or stock.

>> Yeah. Right. I mean, yeah.

>> What's this hottest stock that everyone wants?

>> Oh, that's a good point.

>> It was some Nvidia stock already in, you know, whatever.

>> All right. Pretty simple question, but...

>> Yeah.

>> There's three ideas.

>> All right. Yeah, I guess that...

>> Yeah. Year-long subscription to the trading software, prepaid, you know.

>> How do you guys deal with the legal aspect of running giveaways?

>> You state the facts and tell the truth.

>> Okay. Like, does that like, because isn't there fun to give away laws based on states and countries?

>> Yeah, there are. It's again, your EU is different than, um, than US for sure.

>> If you want...

>> Ask your accountant before you actually give it to them.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. If you give a car, they have to pay tax. Somebody's got to pay tax on it.

>> Yeah.

>> Otherwise, it's a gift. And then it, yeah. Whatever. So, whoever wins the, you know, the 100 grand of the Cybertruck is going to have to pay 40, you know, whatever, 37% or whatever their state, you know, their taxes on that money.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> So, that's one big thing.

>> It's a similar thing for like the school game. So you could incentivize people, let's say like if they join your program, which is exactly what you got to do, to run, like if they perform well.

>> Yeah.

>> Here's...

>> So it's like you incentivize people to succeed with your, with your...

>> Use them as testimonials.

>> That's a great idea.

>> Yeah. Well, I was wondering just from the legal aspect of doing that.

>> No, all that, all that stuff's fine. Like you can incentivize people to do well. That's fine. It's the tax, taxes, and making sure that you actually, like, it sounds like...

>> If you're an ethical person, the issue with giveaways is not a problem. It's that you're disclosing, uh, for example, that more than one person can win a prize. Uh, that you actually make sure that you give the [ __ ] prize away. Some, like, you know, it's even more profitable than doing a $100,000 giveaway, claiming doing a $100,000 giveaway and then not giving 100 grand away.

>> Yeah.

>> A lot of people do it. That's, I mean, like it sounds like that is why they are regulated. But like that's fun. It's gonna be a tax thing. And then making sure that you state the facts and tell the truth from the advertising perspective.

>> Yeah. And probably keep track of like, who actually got the thing.

>> Yes. If you have a second place prize, make sure that you say, "We will be giving away second place prizes." If there's more than one second place prize, do that. And you have to be clear about what it takes to qualify.

>> I fair. Yes. For the networking group, how do I give them something away if, if I'm just starting out in as business owners?

>> And again, you don't have to do giveaways to be. I don't want the, the big take, like everyone's doing a giveaway. Like I was just, uh...

>> No, I would like to give something away, but I just have, I want to have ideas as to what would be.

>> So, the thing that you want to give away is something that your ideal avatar, which is the thing that you said you've struggled to define. You need to figure out your who, so you can figure out your what. If I'm trying to attract female business owners, I would probably have a very different giveaway than I would if I wanted to do 25-year-old male business owners.

>> So, how do I get more clarity as to what?

>> Who do you, who do you think you could help more?

>> Normally, the people, the people that are my clients right now are men between the ages of 35 to 58.

>> Okay. So, millennial and Gen X-Men.

>> Go ahead.

>> Okay. So, it just be what they, what they want, something they would find cool. You can ask them. It's a good strategy. We do it all the time. Like, if you don't know, just ask. Get on the phone with five of them. I'm sure you already do anyways. Just be like, "Hey, if I gave something away, what do you think your friends would think is dope that they like, they would consider joining something?"

>> Do I give them ideas or...

>> No, you want them to give you ideas.

>> What would you give away if you...

>> I'm a terrible ex. I would like material things.

>> The coolest thing you can possibly give away.

>> Yeah.

>> What is...

>> What if I'm that cool?

>> No, you're saying the coolest thing. So, like a Cybertruck's cool.

>> Oh, okay. You don't have to give us. I mean, like it, it depends on what your, what your budget is.

>> I'm like, I'm, I wasn't suggesting that I was going to give myself, but I was suggesting like...

>> That didn't come out the right way. No.

>> No.

>> This escalated so quickly.

>> It's a bonus.

>> It's a, that's a bonus. Yeah. Great lead magnet. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, no, no.

>> If you tip Maria, she tips you back. I understand.

>> No. I mean, like to be like, you're cool, but like I don't...

>> Like, you know, you know, you know, do you see what I'm saying? Like, I don't, I don't know what would be cool for like...

>> You ask those guys, "What's the coolest thing you can think of?" And then try and get a bunch of the, the gift. Basically, if you were to give, think instead of doing a giveaway because that's going to, they're going to have a terrible time with that. Just be like, "If I give you $10,000, you give the sickest gift to your friend, what would you give him?" Okay.

>> Yeah. When doing, we did, or a giveaway for organic because we were pushing most of the traffic to organic.

>> With ads, you can kind of split test it like how the improvement in...

>> You know, the cost per conversion.

>> Is there a way to do it with organic because we don't really know how effective...

>> Is in when they join?

>> No, you could just do like a poll on your stories or on the, are you on YouTube?

>> Uh, is mainly on YouTube. Yeah, just do a community tab post and just do a poll.

>> In terms of if they won it, or if that incentivized them to join? Like, how do we track?

>> I would just be like, "If you had 50 grand, which is these, would you buy?"

>> Oh, no. Like, we gave away like, we did three, like first place, second place, third place.

>> Sure.

>> But I'm talking about tracking the improvement in conversion.

>> Oh, well, that you won't know until you run the, or until, I mean, like you won't know until you do it.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. But you can increase the likelihood that it does better than zero by knowing the right thing to give away. So, I would test what they want and then see.

>> Yeah. How I found the Cybertruck one, by the way, is there's always people hanging out in our office, like customers. And I would look at them and tell them and judge by their like facial expressions. And the Cybertruck worked so well. I was like, "Do you remember you were there, right? It was, it was crazy. I showed them all of this cool stuff, like features, training, everything. I was like, 'Out of this, what stands out to you the most?'" Everyone without a doubt just said Cybertruck. They were just blinded by the Cybertruck. They didn't. And then, you know, there's comments on that post where we announced Season of Madness, and they say, "You had me at Cybertruck."

>> Yeah.

>> Like that's all. So then we were like, "Okay, let's just put the Cybertruck image there, like right there, because that's really what this is." Um, so if you know customers that you can talk to them and say, "Imagine if we did this," and just watch them. And if they're not like, "Holy shit," then it's probably not good enough.

>> Yeah. When we did, when we did giveaways for gyms, for example, they did not, not like Gym Launch, two gyms, but gym owners to their customers. So, they didn't have this like, it's easy for say, it's easy for us, but like, yeah, if when you have a $100,000 budget or $500,000 budget, you can give away some crazy [ __ ] Uh, but if you're like, "Okay, I only have like a $5,000 budget or a $1,000 budget." So, what we did with gym owners is we had them give away, um, a full-year transformation one-on-one. So, that was like, I mean, that's a crazy, I mean, that's an amazing deal. It's probably a [ __ ] because basically you can always give like 5 or $10,000 away if you give away time. But you can make way more. Like if you have to give away one of those time slots, but it gets you a hundred customers, then it like, it's still a high leverage move.

>> Yeah.

>> Because we did, we did, uh, a thousand bucks in cash. Then we did a one-to-one coaching call with with David, the creator. And then we did a custom sleep meditation. And...

>> That's like, the calls usually go for 500 bucks. The meditations go for like two, 300 bucks. And people know that. Um, but we just didn't know how much like marginal increase it gave us in terms of sales this month. So...

>> Well, when you tried one, how did you make more from that?

>> Well, that was our first month managing the community, so we just kind of emulated. But you will never know till you do it.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I guess we, we didn't do one this month and we did worse.

>> Yeah.

>> By how much? Like, do you know roughly how much the margin was?

>> There was a few variables. And so we changed price, we changed, we did a, but we've, we've decreased growth.

>> That's the danger of changing many things. You're like, "Which one is it?"

>> Like, we made, we made like more than 450 sales in August. And then this month we've probably done like 150, 200. Yeah.

>> So it's quite a big...

>> So now I would just revert back to what you did before.

>> Yeah. Do exactly what was working before.

>> And then if you change something, if you get it back to where it was, okay, good. Now change one thing.

>> Very time.

>> But this is why it takes so [ __ ] long to do these tests because you're like, "I want to test four things." And you're like, "We can only test one." And then spend a hundred grand on traffic to find out this one thing.

>> Cuz we did the giveaways and then we did the price increase at the end of the month as like urgency.

>> Um, and then we ended up, you know, increasing the price afterwards. And we didn't do the giveaway this month and then conversions kind of...

>> Yeah, you also pulled some forward. If you do a price increase, you always pull sales forward.

>> Right. Okay. So, I just kind of want to know like your thoughts on...

>> Or the strength of like a guarantee. We were considering, which is like...

>> Making, if you make money in the first month, like...

>> Um, or if you don't make money in the first month, you'll get your money back.

>> But it's like that money could be like $5. Because it's like, with the Amazon influencer program, you have to get approved for it.

>> But then like once you start making like $5, it just kind of compounds like it's a snowball thing.

>> Yeah. So, I'm just kind of wondering like the strength of that.

>> I don't think that's bad. I mean, I think it's a very compelling offer.

>> But you wouldn't like say the amount of money. You would just say like...

>> "Yeah, if you don't make money." I mean, the average school community owner makes $1,360 a month. And one out of two businesses who make, start a paid community, make their first dollar online. That's 54.1%. Make at least a dollar. And I say a dollar. So, you could just say a dollar. I mean, it works fine for us. The thing is, is that, um, I'll tell you this. I, I've probably said this before, if you don't. But lower promises convert higher because people, like everyone here, you guys all, you know, you guys are all winners. You always, you know, like the whole community, you guys are the top 10, you know, for the month. And so you think, "Oh, why would anyone care about a $5,000 a month promise?" Like, or like, "Wouldn't they want a $50,000 a month promise?" It's like, "No, they don't believe you at all to begin with." It just went from unbelievable to go [ __ ] yourself. Like, there's, they still don't believe you. But $500 a month, they're like, "Okay, I can, I can see how that might be able to happen."

>> Yeah. So, I, I think you just make it believable. You might actually perform unbelievably well because then it seems really, "Okay, I could make money doing this." The first dollar is the hardest dollar for anything on the internet, or really anything.

>> I swear those claims work better than the big ones. Like, if it's believable and like that it's going to be hard, it will take some time, and that, you know, the first goal is just to make your first dollar, and then eventually you work towards $10,000. That's like really what most people want. I think the moment you say anything more than that, everyone just freaks out.

>> Yeah. Above 10 is like, forget about it.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, all of our ads are just the average is 1,360 bucks a month. And I say in half the ads, I'm like, "So, no, you will not be on the Forbes list. You will not be the richest person in your neighborhood. But I was like, but it can help get you started." And so for somebody who's at zero, they're like, "That feels manageable. I think I can do that."

>> Are there, um, like rules with that under Meta? Like, like saying that the average person loses because I'm thinking like, let's say in a fitness offer, you say the average person loses 10 pounds in the first month.

>> The difference is between claims of things that will happen versus what has happened.

>> Right. Right. So, if you say the average of, you know, everyone in the community has lost 10 pounds or made X, like that's fine. But you're not making the claim as that.

>> Again, the platform decides whatever rules you want. But from an, like FTC perspective, there's a difference between substantiated claims and unsubstantiated. Substantiated claims is like, "We looked at all the data, this is what happened. I'm not saying it's going to happen for you. I'm just telling you what happened." The fundamentally, all, all the advertising laws get to state the facts and tell the truth. If I say, "If you buy my thing, you're going to make $1,000," you are now lying. Like, you have no idea. There's no way you can make that claim. It's unsubstantiated. But if I say, "Every person who's bought in the last 90 days has made over $1,000," that's a substantiated claim. And as long as you have the substantiation, you have the data to back to to back that, then you can make those claims. That being said, if you want to hack for, um, for for Meta and algorithm stuff, if you are in a racier space, just, um, remove, basically separate time from the from the outcome. So, the way that we do it, or I try to do it, if I remember, um, is first try. Because first try is not a time period. It's like, "Hey, these guys, you know, they make 1,360 bucks, um, on their first try." So, it's purposely vague.

>> Dope.

>> Uh, how, okay, so a little bit of context, you did about like 150 to 200,000 before just with organic. How would you value...

>> Annual or monthly?

>> Uh, like three months. Two or three months. We're selling light summit first. Okay.

>> But how would you value organic traffic versus paid ad traffic?

>> Um, do you think one is more valuable?

>> What problem are you solving?

>> Well, just why do you care? Why does it matter?

>> Well, because we did so well organically and then now we're really transitioning into ads because we can obviously see that we can now, if we can pay for conversion, we'll always get sales obviously.

>> Um, so how, because you, you run your personal brand, you also do ads. Like, what do you think is more valuable?

>> No, they're both valuable. They work together.

>> Organic's better because you don't have to pay money for it. If we could, if we could get all of our sales from organic, we would absolutely do that.

>> And not run any ads.

>> So you tap it out. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The, the, the, the right now the infinite money glitch in my opinion that exists is having big organic brand and then using ads to mop up all of the audience that can't normally see a CTA. And so like right now the organic audience that you have, if you said, "Hey, go buy my thing," it would tank. It would get zero engagement. It would get no reach because the platform knows when you make an offer and they want you to, they want you to pay them if you're going to make money, right? That way. And so, um, instead, they will, you can run an ad and instead of having 2 to 3% of your audience see it, 100% of your audience sees it. And it's a perfectly engineered ad to get someone to take an action. And so the brand stuff fundamentally functions like top of funnel and awareness and trust building. And then you mop up all of the, just think of it as step one, step two, rather than like, "Which one's better?"

>> Thank you.

>> Yeah. Like if you do both, you will make more money than if you did one.

>> Yeah. But don't stop doing the organic now that you're doing the paid.

>> Yeah. Thank you for like, yes. Do not stop doing like repeat successful actions. What has worked so far? Keep doing more of that.

>> Think of it as layers. Like you have to keep that consistent and then do that. If doing this costs you doing that, you'll probably make the same amount of sales, but now you're paying for traffic, so you're doing worse. I think organic is like a long-term like plan as well too because like, like if you want to make a [ __ ] ton of money now, yeah, ads are great. But like over time, like in a big period of time, like over time, if you want to make a bunch of money, a lot more organic is always going to be like superior in my opinion.

>> Branding will take you farther. Like it's my strongest asset.

>> I mean, why you like Alex, right?

>> Yeah. Why you like me?

>> And I come from the ad side. So, it's, it's, it's weird because a lot of people have trouble making the transition, which is ironic because they're so similar, uh, now that I've done both. But I started on the paid side because it's so fast to make money, but it just takes more skill.

>> You give me more value than Daryl Ees.

>> What?

>> You give me more value than Daryl Ees. Daryl, I give you more value than Daryl Ees.

>> Yeah. Like 20s.

>> Cool. Thanks.

>> About the, sorry, just another question on the ads. Um, most of the audience is on YouTube for our creator. And what are your thoughts on running YouTube retargeting ads even though we can't track the CPA or reconcile?

>> It will in, like, the next 20ish, or maybe shorter, maybe the next 10 days.

>> Cool. Is that the same for Google Ads conversion tracking as well?

>> It's the same thing.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Cool.

>> Solved. Solved.

>> Solved. Yes, sir. Well, let's come back to the guarantee. Um, for the day trading niche, like broker data states that like 90% of traders actually don't make money. And I know from experience, like at least six to 12 months, they're not only not going to make money, but actually going to lose money. How can I with that data make a guarantee for them? But I can...

>> I wouldn't. Yeah, that, yeah, don't...

>> Don't give them a guarantee.

>> Okay.

>> It's already like incredibly gray and racy space. I would just say, I would, I would lean against the guarantee. I would do an anti-guarantee. Like, anybody who guarantees you this stuff, like run the other way because, yeah, I would just go in that direction.

>> Okay.

>> Be the ethical person. Just say like, "What I, like, I'm not going to tell you what trades to make because if I have alpha, then I'm not going to give it to you, right? Like, like, but what I will do is help you define your own trading style," which is then fundamentally just teaching someone the basics of how that works. And the fact that most people don't succeed at it is normal, right? Like that is normal for almost everything. Doesn't stop people playing basketball for fun even though they're not going to make it to the NBA.

>> Yeah. I, I love what you said, like, because so many other people in the space give the guarantee and everybody knows it's, it's not true.

>> I love that. Thanks.

>> Yeah. Lean against it.

>> Yeah. Cool. Now we're talking about success about the community itself. I would see, I think, Sam, how are you? Are you guys measuring the success rate of the school creators itself? Like, how many people, let's say you have, like we have now 5 million users, how many people are making their first actual dollar? That's like 54%. You guys have the data because you guys can see the the money that's being transferred. So we teach people how to make money online with Google Ads, dropshipping. But I would love to see like, how many people are actually doing it. How do you think that this is a good way to tackle this within our community? We are just always struggling with this community success manager that takes all these calls with people or it's just like it's terrible because I run surveys. Surveys.

>> So, uh, you probably do some community call or something like that. And so, we make a survey on the next call. You got on, say, "Hey guys, I'm sending this to you right now. I have this big cookie on the other side of it. Once you fill it out, you get the cookie. Uh, and I'll walk through exactly what I'm looking for because believe me, you will want to walk them through how to fill out the survey because they will fill it out incorrectly and give you bad data." So, and make it as short as humanly possible. Just like what you started at, what day, you know, what you were making then, what you're making now.

>> Yeah. Because we notice like a lot of people that are getting the most, the most amount of success, they are not even active that much.

>> Yeah. Because they're making money. So someone is like, it's so funny. Like last month, someone came in like, "Oh yeah, I joined like two months ago and we're doing 15k a day." I'm like, "Dude, who the hell are you? Like 15k a day? Who are you?" I was like, "Oh yeah, I joined two months ago. Thank you."

>> Yeah.

>> And that's terrible because I, I would love to see like...

>> It's terrible. They're making that much money.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. You should be making that. What do we, what's happening right now?

>> No. No. And, um, how do you think about build? We have it on the on the board. Thinking about the ecosystem in a community itself. So right now, you teach something and you just charge for the community. So you have like multiple legs on a table that you can put in, like, for example, you can put in a service that you can provide. You can do the high ticket. But what if, for example, if you think about, "Oh, we have so many people in the community, they have like X problem." Why not solve it with a software? For example.

>> Say, if you want to tell someone to build software.

>> Yeah. I wouldn't do that. But how do you guys think about, because I think if you really, the strong thing about school is just the whole ecosystem. It's not like the, the community is the power, like it's the engine, but the whole ecosystem. It will be crazy what you can, what you can build. It's, it's the whole experience that people get while they're in there. We noticed, I have, I started a community because I have a Google Ads agency. People wanted to work with me and they were not allowed, like they were not qualified. So I was like, "I have a free community. You can go in there." But then the community got way bigger than the agency. I'm like, "Oh [ __ ] this is, um, this is, this is crazy." So now we see like way better qualified leads in the agency because we, we help them. But now we're like, we, and the agency, they all, the people are asking like, "Oh, can we see competitors that are running on Google Ads on on Shopify?" I'm like, "Oh yeah, I can build that. That's no problem. This is software. It's just an API that we can build." And then now we have a thousand people maybe willing to use it as well. Wait, do you know how to build it?

>> Well, I don't know, but we have the capital that we have the budget to maybe, we have some, we have someone in my close network. They saw me grow growing on school and he was, he built the fastest growing software company in the in the Netherlands. And he was like, "Dude, I can help you with, but we need to partner up like 50/50 equity and I can help you build the whole thing."

>> I mean, there's rare times when it makes sense to do it, but it's very consuming. Yeah.

>> And it costs a lot of money and it doesn't make much. It all depends what your goal is, honestly.

>> Yeah.

>> Um,

>> Yeah. The funny thing is, I told him, "No, I not don't want to do it." But my CEO of the agency is like, "Oh, I want to do it." I'm like,

>> "Wait, is it just, just to see other people who are like running?"

>> Yeah. The funny thing is, like in dropshipping, it's very famous to spy on other dropshipping stores. It's very famous, but it is built out for Facebook and for TikTok. For Google, it's not that transparent. It is transparent that people don't know how to find actually winning products on Google stores. It's just a very niche, niched down thing. And people are like, "Oh, but I need to find these products that people are actually selling on Google and how many revenue is being generated."

>> Is there a way to do that without building software?

>> Just, just, uh, by teaching it or by just using other ones' software and combine all these different softwares by each other? Well, if you can just teach it, be like, "Here's products that are winning. Here's how I found them."

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's what we do right now. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Then that's almost better than the software. That's the end state of the software that you might kill yourself making.

>> Yeah. It's just like, it's, it's always people looking for the short shortcuts. Like I believe like...

>> That is the shortcut. You're giving them the outcome.

>> Yeah.

>> People don't want software, by the way.

>> No. No.

>> Yeah. They don't want, you just want, you just want the outcome without paying for it.

>> Yeah. No one is looking for another software unless they're a bit messed up.

>> Yeah.

>> Gotcha.

>> All to say, probably not start a software company because of this one tool thing. And from the other legs of the stool that you were talking about, um, if you have the service side and this is the community that nurtures those people, awesome. So then you basically, what problem are you solving?

>> You know what would be cool is if someone in your community built the software.

>> It's the ecosystem.

>> Someone asked, someone, someone is like, someone asked, but someone is, it's so funny. We have a lot of Indian people coming in. They want to make their first dollar and they like, "Chessa, this is so annoying to find these winning products." I built some kind of crazy automation. And he wanted to show it in the whole, in the whole call with everyone was live, and it broke down like instantly. He was like, "Oh [ __ ] it's not working." I'm like, "Oh, this is so funny." But now you found like the whole automation while even finding the winning products and then the automation pulls it in the Shopify store itself.

>> See, that's the best part of an ecosystem is...

>> The people in it will fill the needs as they emerge without you having to do it all.

>> Yeah, that's a really good take on. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, that's already happening. It sounds like you have an ecosystem.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. M.

>> We just want to, I just want to think like, oh, how big can you expand it? Like indeed, without getting, I hate to go away from school. So I thought, I want to get everything inside school, inside the community itself.

>> We'll just keep growing it and see how far you can go.

>> Yeah. All right. Thanks, guys.

>> Easy.

>> Yeah. Kind of going back to the like organic traffic and paid ads. So, we were like CTAing only in organic and it worked pretty well for us, but like what we struggled with was like, we would go viral and like we were kind of closing in the DMs, so we'd have like setters and they'd get like overwhelmed. And so it'd be very like inconsistent. Yeah.

>> So, I guess would you just like to dumb it down, would you just recommend like, just do organic for the personal brand and CTA and the ads and just have like consistent traffic from that?

>> I mean, that's elegant. I, I wouldn't necessarily end the way that you currently make money. So, I mean, like if you, if you, basically it's like, "Boohoo, uh, we, you know, had a viral ad and we have more leads than we can handle." But your regular videos still generate leads and still give you, you know, get, get you customers. So, it's like that's the bread and butter. Then you get spikes that happen. It's okay. And then obviously the ads that you run after that just give you more leads. Yeah, I wouldn't stress on it. Sweet. All right. So, I feel like we talked about no-brainer offers. Who's got, let's see. What do we got? And we got high-ticket offers. We can transition to that. That's kind of adjacent. And then we also have this low-ticket diet. So, it seems like a lot of high-ticket talk. That feels, yeah, these two. We'll probably cross over in the same discussion. Um, okay. So, who had the, they're trying to go low ticket to high ticket. So, you guys are, you guys are...

>> What is high ticket? I'm curious. Yeah, that was the first question I was going to ask.

>> Uh, anywhere from 500 for above 500...

>> Dollars.

>> Per what?

>> Per year.

>> Girl, that is not high ticket.

>> Uh, I mean, for our community right now, our offer is, um, our high ticket program is $3,000. Um, and that's a lifetime value. And what we do is we don't, um, offer anything like in the classroom extra. We just offer more of our time with extra community calls. We have, uh, one community call for the entire community. And then our high ticket gets four extra community calls, which are also more valuable because there's like 1/8 of the people in there. I think our problem also is, um, we say that you're in until you make your money back. So you get your 3K and so it's really easy to convert. That's why conversion rate for ours is what, like 50, 60...

>> Love that offer.

>> Something. So, like you say, "Okay, you're in till you make your money back." Some guy made his money back in his first video, did like 700K, easy money back, sells the low ticket. But then the problem is we have guys that are...

Probably going to be there forever because they don't come to any calls, paid the 3K, but they're just going to be there and it's like taking up space because we don't want to have too much high ticket because then it's going to make it less valuable. It's just going to be another "Oh, those guys showing up or they're not showing up."

"Yeah, some of them just don't show up. We've had three."

"So, they don't take up space if they don't show."

"Well, the reason we say he's saying it would takes up space is because of the fact that we don't want to open high ticket offer. We have it closed and we've only opened it once, 10 spots. And of those 10 spots, guys, it was just 10 spots."

"Well, originally."

"Oh, yeah. But either way, like we we only opened a certain amount of spots and then they paid and they're not asking for their money back and they just never showed up."

"How much is the high ticket thing?"

"It's 3,000."

"For lifetime?"

"Yes."

"How much is the low ticket?"

"Um, 300."

"For lifetime?"

"Lifetime."

"Yeah. Or 50."

"And what problem are you trying to solve? Why are you interested in high ticket?"

"Makes really good money."

"What's really good money?"

"The high ticket is actually pretty beneficial for them because the biggest struggle we realized when we had the low ticket, we we dropped the high ticket like 3 months after, two months after we had the low ticket. And the biggest feedback we got, the most common feedback we got was, 'We want more calls with you.' Um, essentially, and it actually is working. I mean, the people in our high ticket are progressing at a much more rapid rate."

"What are you, what is good money? Like, what are you aiming for?"

"Oh, the problem to solve for us."

"Yeah."

"Um, well, the, I, I guess the biggest problem we have is that we need more social proof of our current customers and the people that join the high ticket program are giving us results that we can use to get more low ticket conversions into our community. But I believe that if we were to open the high ticket to everyone because we have like, uh, people in the waitlist currently, if we go to the high ticket, it's just really just going to be another community. You know, they're getting less of that one-on-one interaction with saying people in the high ticket."

"We still haven't got that."

"Well, well, the goal for us, like I said, is, uh, because the high ticket people tend to perform better with the results, we want to use their results to get more people into our community."

"Why does, why do they perform better? Why do you want that?"

"Um, I mean, to help more people."

"Yeah."

"Why? But what's your goal?"

"I mean, first of all, yeah."

"Cuz if you want to help lots of people, you can make it free."

"That's..."

"If you just say, 'I want to make 100 grand a month,' it makes us a lot easier."

"See, it's only..."

"Well, well..."

"Trying to like lead you to water here, man."

"Like..."

"I mean, I guess here for you to clarify, I guess that that could bring up the the main goal right now. I, I want to, we, we want to transfer the main income from our community to the high ticket. Cuz right now, the low ticket comes up like 90% of our income from the community. We want it to be at least 50/50 from high ticket, low ticket."

"Why?"

"Because that then we'll make more money, like he said."

"What? No, it will just be the same."

"Well, if, because if you go from 90/10 to 50/50, you know what I'm saying? Like, basically the makeup of the money. Honestly, the only reason people do high ticket is to make more money. If you could have the same revenue and have it be all low ticket, you would definitely want to do that."

"Yeah. Yeah, for sure."

"Okay. So, but like, we're pushing back on what you said because again, none of those reasons are actual reasons to do it."

"Right. I, I guess I, I worded it incorrectly that on my part, but with with the high ticket, the um, the reason it, it's going to make us more money is because right now we're not offering it to people off the bat. We, they join the low ticket, that we convert the people that are already in our community. So, um, that's why it makes us more money, which is the end goal."

"So, if you sell more stuff to existing customers, you'll make more money."

"Yes, I agree."

"But we still don't have an income goal."

"I know, but..."

"Oh, a specific figure."

"Um..."

"Well, well, when we first first started, the specific figure is for each of us to make 100 grand a month individually."

"Okay. What are you guys doing monthly? I know you said 150 to 200 over a three-month period. Like, what do you guys do?"

"I don't really check. I mean..."

"No, we had, we did like the 100."

"All right. I, I'm the one that runs the numbers for the most part. Um, right now, us individually, just from the community, Adav and I probably do between like 25, 35 a month right now."

"Total. That's the, for the whole thing."

"That's after the expensive ads, obviously."

"Um..."

"What's revenue?"

"No. No. Revenue is like 70, I think."

"Yeah. Between 70 and 100."

"I did like July."

"In July was fire."

"But what about in August?"

"We, we did, we did a good amount in August."

"Yeah. 60K."

"So, you did 100 in July, 60 in August."

"What are you on track to do in September?"

"I don't know. It's looking really rough, man. I'm not going to lie."

"That sucks."

"Yeah. Yeah. No, I know why. Because you're selling lifetime."

"Yeah."

"Like that's what I've been trying to get at. Like, your, what is your income goal? What are you making currently? Is this lifetime thing even rational? Which seems like it's not. So maybe you should rethink the whole thing from the ground up because you're like, 'All these people are going to stay with us forever.' It's like, 'Yeah, well, you sold them forever.' And your big concern is that, yeah, they're going to just like hang around forever."

"Not a fan of lifetime at all."

"I hate lifetime."

"Well, I'll tell you, I'll tell you why. I don't want to receive money one time and then work forever. Like..."

"It's why you did well one month and you keep doing worse every month thereafter because now you're on the work forever part."

"Yeah. And that's that, and that's expanding in size."

"Well, one, one thing I do want to add though is that the reason July did so well is because our numbers in, uh, August were actually fairly similar, but it's because we opened up the high ticket. The reason there's that big jump is because we sold high ticket that month, but then the following month we did not. Um, and I, I think you're bringing up a good point, which is why we're right now considering switching rather to from lifetime to annual and having an..."

"The reason for why I'm here because like I was doing the other kind of master reser, I mean, this, I was doing the other kind of MR, which is master reselling of courses. So, I was as good of one sale and then that client had me forever and it's a beautiful model and I made 100% commission and I made good money, but I had, let's say I have a 100 clients, but I could only sell them one time and then they have access to everything including me forever. And to make a living out of that, it's like every single, if you make a living out of that, every single day or every single week, however you want to work it, like you're looking for a brand new blood of humans. And that is like, once you do it for a long time, it's very, it's..."

"It's exhausting. It's much sweeter than..."

"No, I just think like you're giving yourself away. You're looking for blood. I'm just like, 'This is great.'"

[Music]

"What could work for you guys is just coming up with an offer that's like, I don't know, maybe 50 bucks a..."

"Or like, wait, what did you say high ticket was for you?"

"3K."

"3,000 lifetime. But so imagine like 1,500 a year is, is maybe that's feels like the same for the prospect and 3,000 lifetime."

"What about now? So, if we have like 850 people in our community, they've already paid lifetime."

"We'll deal with that. Hate it."

"No, there is ways to deal with that. Like I've seen it happen a lot. Um, but first things first, we can't make that problem worse."

"Yeah."

"Right. So, you need to come up with a better offer and start selling that and then you can clean up the lifetime."

"That's that's what you did with consulting.com."

"I sold lifetime, so I know this problem well, actually."

"And then you upselled."

"And he had more than 850 customers. So, if that makes you feel..."

"Yeah. I had like 20,000."

"They've still got access."

"Yeah."

"But you just..."

"Lifetime."

"Yeah. But you know, they just over time, like the calls are the only real draining part, right? So, you can like give the calls to someone else, right? And then you can make them less frequent. And then you see, you ask how many people are showing up. And when that number gets low and it's the same people, like once I asked the guys doing the calls, 'How many are on the calls?' And they said, 'Oh, about five.' And I was like, 'Is it the same five?' And they were like, 'Yeah.' I was like, 'Okay, well, if we stop doing them, our total risk is probably five people asking for even, right? Don't announce it, right? You just stop doing it. No one notices because only five people were attending.' And then you can deal with those five."

"Pardon?"

"Wouldn't that be a lawsuit?"

"A lawsuit."

"Only five people who would notice. He's saying you give the money back to..."

"Oh, he's give the money back, right?"

"Yeah. If you say like, 'I promised you lifetime.'"

"It obviously isn't."

"But so I'll give you your money back. What do they..."

"That's not a lawsuit."

"850 people."

"No, 850 people are not going to ask you for it back because 800..."

"You're going to have people pay showing up to the calls right now."

"Do you give them calls like light calls? The light."

"You're forgetting that I had 20,000."

"Yeah. They, they get access to the content or also to calls?"

"The calls. They get..."

"Lifetime call."

"Yeah. One call."

"In one year's time, the amount of people showing up to those calls, I bet you will be, I bet you in four or five months, the amount of people showing up to those calls will be near zero."

"Yeah. From those light..."

"It'll only keep getting worse if you keep throwing new people in."

"Yeah. So, basically, step one, stop solving the endless work thing. Like, stop selling forever work for one-time pay. Step one. Step two, you can swap out whoever is doing the call and then over time that will become less valuable of a call and people will attend less and less. Once no one is attending the call, then..."

"You take the call away, but you leave, they still have access. Yeah. Right. You don't take the content away from them. They've still got the community or whatever, but there's no call. So, then it's not really a burden on you. Right."

"Oh, you're such a genius, Mr. Robins."

"He says, now to be clear, if you're doing a low ticket to high ticket model and you're going to be doing calls for the new continuity that comes in, then there's really nothing that it changes about your behavior. You're just going to simply stop offering lifetime and start offering monthly. And the people who have lifetime will have access to the calls that you're already doing for the people who are paying monthly. And the people who pay annual are high ticket, right? Like, so that's why I'm always confused by that label because it means different things to different people. But if you're just talking about 1,500 bucks or something, that can be annual for a low ticket offer, right?"

"So, basically, you get on the phone, you sell them annual, downsell to monthly."

"Makes sense. And with annual, because the unlocks that, that, that we have, like there's other things that the annual people can get that the people who are paying monthly don't get, but it keeps everything consolidated in one place."

"And you'll get more results like if you do it annually because like lifetime, like it's like just human nature, if it's always there, they're just not going to take action. It just urges these come on."

"I swear annual is the same perception as it's the same conversion. I promise you it's the same. A year is lifetime to lots of people."

"We've also, we've already tested this as well. It's six months and 12 are the same."

"So, you can sell this. My opinion, you can sell six months. Like, if 3K is the number that you guys were able to get to me, that's like your audience is willing to pay $3,000. And so whether it's like, and $3,000 for a long time. And a long time for most people, six months or more is like, that's forever. It's..."

"A big, right. Most people can't think that far ahead. Six months is just like, if once it's past 12 weeks, they're like, 'It's that.' So, yeah. I mean, we have split-tested that."

"Yeah."

"Have you seen the difference between free months and six months?"

"Uh, I haven't tested it. I just know that six and 12 convert the same same price."

"Yeah. So, that was that was a question I had was like, are are you guys going to bring out, like, monthly pricing or not monthly pricing, but like three months, six months, and then a year?"

"Definitely not."

"Yeah."

"What's, what's the reasoning for not doing like three months and then..."

"Well, that's just weird."

"Yeah."

"Like software doesn't do that. It's generally monthly or annual with a discount, right?"

"Yeah. It just keeps it cleaner. Otherwise, you have this massive pricing sheet."

"Okay."

"And then my next question was like, um, if they upgrade to annual, are they still paying the, can, can we do both where it's like somebody's still on the monthly subscription and then they upgrade annual to get the extra things, but they're still paying monthly for..."

"Okay."

"What?"

"That's messed up."

"Yeah."

"Well, like if, cuz my thing's kind of like both. It's like both a service and consulting. And the service is more because I have more time put into it, and then the consulting's less."

"If it's a different service fundamentally, then that should probably be this a second group for people that you provide services."

"Well, you could make the annual price not a discount, but more because it's actually acting as some kind of upsell."

"Yeah. Right. So, like..."

"Yeah. Sam, will there be a way to like, the people that, that you already have in your group that they can, without kicking them out then coming back in, to upgrade to to annual?"

"That's already them?"

"Oh, it's already in the people that are already in there."

"Yeah."

"Well..."

"I, I want to highlight what Sam just said because I think it's important for everyone who's watching back home."

"So, you guys, let's say you guys want to do 50, uh, 50 bucks a month, right? Now, Sam said you could make your annual 1,500. Right now, if you just do 50 times 12, that's $600. And so obviously the 1,500 is significantly more than monthly times 12. But it does give you the ability to have just basically a second tier fundamentally that is way more expensive that unlocks these other features. And so it also allows you to do that all in one community, which is pretty clean. So, on one hand, you can do the, you know, certain amount discounted because you have high churn and you just want to drive, you know, like if you're, you want to increase LTV from $200 to $600 or $200 to $400, make your your annual for the 50 bucks, make it $400, and then you just drive traffic to it, right? And that would probably be a good way to liquidate more ad spend. But if you're going to get on the phone with people or do some sort of launch and whatnot, then it's kind of like the alternative strategy. Instead of giving discounts or a few months off and some bonuses to get more conversions to get cash up front, you instead are going more expensive than what monthly x 12 is. And then those additional features are worth more. So, it just creates a second tier of service, essentially."

"Now, we're talking about annual. It's funny, you thought like, yeah, one year feels like lifetime access. But this for the creator as well, like if I sell, yeah, if I, if I sell the annual, I'm like, 'Oh my god, we're just, uh, this dude again.' And then we we tried to sell them a little bit more because you told like, um, the last live call or something was really good. Like, we, we want to do the 6 plus 6 free."

"So, that's, I think that's one of the biggest offers you can get. Plus, you want to give them a little bit more things extra."

"Sure. Um, but then it's getting unscalable again because you're like, 'Oh my god, now they are getting like, like lifetime access, one year, and now there is still, and they're still um, taking more advantages as well from maybe calls or that kind of stuff."

"Fundamentally, I feel like you have this issue where you, you, you sell stuff for too little for what you give them, and then you get upset they buy the thing that you're selling them that you picked the price of."

"Yeah. It's like we kind of just like, so I think, so the question is, do you really believe in over-delivering? Like, is this, because it's, it's I keep doing..."

"Okay, so here's the thing. Over-delivering has nothing to do with how much work it is for you."

"Yeah. Has how much to do with how much value they get."

"Yeah."

"And so, if something takes you 5 seconds but saves someone a year, it's amazing value and it's a great economic model because you charge what that's worth to them, not what it costs to you. And so, there, I'll bet you right now, there's a bunch of things that you do that they don't value, that you still do because you don't know that they don't value."

"Exactly. Yeah. I talked with Evelyn a lot and Evelyn showed me the insights, like I'm doing way too much shit which people are don't even think that's really good."

"Dude, we do. We try and think about deletion. Like, what can we remove at all times? The number one reason for canceling is overwhelm."

"Yeah. I, yeah."

"It's churn. And so then we're like, we want to over-deliver on value, but again, it's value per second, not seconds of value. It's how can we just make the fewest thing. Like, people have the internet, they like, they don't have, it's not that they lack stuff."

"Yeah. And the funny thing is, this is a funny statistic as well. We closed the community because it was getting out of control. Like, people wanted to join like insanely. So, we increased the price from 159 to 199. And I told the people on the last day, 'I'm going to close it. So, if you want to take action, you do it.' Well, the 199 converted like, like crazy. It was a really good price."

"Yeah, it was really, it was really, it was really good. And then we closed it. And now the, we did not change anything about the delivery, but because of closing, we went from like 29% to 6% churn. What do you think is more valuable? Closing, closing the community and people thinking about like, 'Oh, I can never join back again when I cancel,' or, uh, the price increase that anchors way more, yeah, people that are way more engaged because we notice like the 199 is more pricey, of course, and more expensive than the 159. 150 down to 199 is barely a price increase."

"Yeah. So, you think that's not the biggest change for like the churn itself, like the going down? It's maybe closing the community itself."

"I mean, if people know that they can't come back, I'm sure that is a reason that churn went down. You also did personal onboarding. I'm sure that's a reason that churn went down. Like, you had multiple variables that happened at the same time."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. Evelyn's churns like that, but her community is still open."

"Yeah. Yeah. That's that's..."

"That's obviously better, right?"

"Yeah."

"Yeah. Selling more people."

"Better when we stripped back content."

"The goal is to be able to sell all the time and to still have low churn."

"If you lower churn, but you don't get to sell, isn't that kind of the same?"

"Yeah, that's the metric that we're trying to figure out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah."

"I think it's just running the numbers way more than just thinking about indeed, like going up again a little bit in June, but like 10x in sales. That would be that would be good."

"Yeah. I want to highlight something that Evelyn like whispered in her little Evelyn voice. She's like, 'Yeah, I did less stuff and churn went down.'"

"Yeah."

"Yeah."

"So, most people get this like anxiety itch of like, 'I have to make more. I have to make more.' But like, you need to make fewer better things. So, the amount of time it takes you to make all the stuff you make now, if you just made like two things and made them really fucking good, you will have lower churn because then more people will consume it and the stuff they will consume will be better."

"Can I add something to that? That worked really well for me? Because when I remove the things, I let people know first. It's like, 'Hey, I'm planning to remove those things from the community. So, if you want those things, get in right now.' So, I did like a promo for that. And then I had members like, um, download it now because I'm removing it. And now I'm just using them with limited time bonuses for people to join, right? So, they can kind of self-select. But I use, so when you're closing out, you just use that as a promo before you know, 'We're closing this out, but you can still get it if you join right now.' That will also help your data and then, um, use it as a limited time bonus for the people that really want to have it, but they will value it differently. It will not just be another thing that they don't consume. It's just a bonus."

"Yeah. Yeah. The interesting thing that we were talking about yesterday, and I think it's a really big takeaway for me, is like building the culture in the community itself. I think that's that's what we are doing wrong because we are like 24/7 in the community. So, like Enrique has like his notifications on. He's like 24/7 just answering people. So, they're not helping each other. So, we're not building really a community. They're just, they know they can just push in the question and like in 24 seconds they get an answer from Enrique. And if they does, if he doesn't know, he calls me. What the fuck do I need to answer? This is this is the line that we have. I'm like, 'Oh, this is this is terrible.' So, in the live calls as well, like people can raise their hands and they speak with me one-on-one. And I do five calls a week. So, it's not, I'm like, 'This is not scalable, dude.'"

"No, no, [ __ ]."

"Just delay the response."

"Yeah, that's all."

"If you answer first, then everyone else will look at that and be like, 'Oh, he already answered that.'"

"So, you're not leaving any space for anyone to contribute."

"Exactly. Yeah. That's why I would love to talk more about this."

"Well, you've trained them. So, think about like latency of reward is how addictions happen, right? The reason your phone's more addicting than other stuff is because it's immediate. And so, you have just immediately rewarded them every time they reach out. If you do 24-hour response times or 48-hour response times, they will post in the group because other people will have faster responses than you. And then eventually just wean them off of responding to you."

"No, that's just something that I would love to see more about in this later on the school masterclasses itself. You guys are going to do trainings. I would love to see like culture building. Like indeed, like this is a topic that I did not even think about, like culturing people and training people inside the community itself."

"It's what you choose to reward and punish in in the community. Like that is culture. It's just the rules that govern reinforcement."

"That's it. Oh, so many. Shoot."

"About kind of like people requesting stuff and questions and things. Feature that might be like interesting is like when somebody makes a post, people can go inside of it and make like a mini post inside of that post. I mean, kind of like a comment, but well, there it's like multiple things. I want to say like, uh, one is like show giving them like a time frame. So, kind of like a form where you're like, 'Okay, every 24 hours we're going to respond at this time.' So, people know like it's, they're not going to get it immediately. So, then it's it's easier for you because it's more like a form format where they're like, just plugging in the questions and then they get their question answered, but it's not like immediately. So, it's easier on you guys. I think that's something that may be better. Um, and then like another, what I was trying to say is like how to format that. So, like with the general thing, there's like a tab where you see the post or you see the post that are questions. I mean, you guys kind of already have it, but I was like, maybe like a form. I don't know. Yeah."

"Well, what Evelyn taught me was like that explained me is like having it tapped specifically for questions. And if it's not qualified for this question tab, you just remove it back to a different tab. So, like this, like, 'Oh, this is not urgent. You don't, you, it needs to be here.' And that's training people to really do it like back, back over again because indeed, when we just opened the community, it's like I got tagged so many times. Like my phone was ringing constantly. Like, 'Oh my god, this is, this is crazy.' But then I like, 'Oh no, I don't need to answer this because it's already there.' So, I can just remove it. And I think that's the way we should, uh, train people. I, I guess go for it. I'm dying to share because it had doubled my profit. This is how crucial this was that I stopped answering questions in the community, doubled my profit. I'm at the moment on school, 82% profit margins and 35 in my other communities where I hired and train and keep training people to answer questions in 24 hours. And the community quality in school is a lot better. And here's what I, when I took over the school, I was like, 'I, something about my service is not working right. I need to use this opportunity on school to learn how to serve again.' And so, one of the things that I did was, I never promised you get feedback in 24 hours. I have a tab, a category that's urgent for Evelyn questions. And I started making a video. First, I was like, 'Hey, you know, guys, we don't do like the 24-hour support feedback in a group.' And here's why this is beneficial for you. Because when you guys are helping each other, um, and then the community has more quality and you have streamlined ways to get support per week under the weekly Q&A. And you can even submit your ads and questions for video feedback that has different turnaround times for the longest. It's so, it's between 48 hours and seven days. But you have to do something. You have to submit your numbers and the video, right? So, they're bit of hurdles for the people that actually want help because they're doing the work, right? So, I was like, 'You remember you have those qualified ways to get help from me? And if there is something urgent, you can put it in this category, but let's quickly agree everyone on what is urgent and what is not urgent.' So, I would love to have your opinion on what is an urgent question for me. Um, if you can comment it, and then we all come to an agreement like what is an urgent question. And basically, all came to the agreement, there's basically no urgent question. So, is the, the thing we kind of all have, if your ad account gets hacked, there's a post like, 'If your ad account gets hacked, now do those things, right?' So, um, kind of when they said those are urgent things, now it's like their post for the urgent things. This is what you do, the protocol. And so, I'm not in there answering questions anymore. They know the streamlined ways to get support. And now the members actually, when somebody comes in new, they culture the first and they're like, 'Evelyn, do no, we don't tag Evelyn. You can submit here.' Like, they help each other. And it's, it's beautiful. And that's how managing 2,400 people."

"Alone? No."

"Yeah. And your churn is lower than the other, is lower."

"So, they're helping each other. Evelyn's doing less and churn went down."

"Yeah."

"You do calls."

"Don't do the 24-hour written respond time or anything."

"Do you do like calls so people can ask?"

"Q&A week."

"Okay. I'm telling..."

"Having that public on YouTube because I get custom."

"A friend, I'll share this anecdote which I think I shared last time, but is worth sharing. Um, friend of mine had a, a newsletter that was 500 grand. It was doing 500 grand a month. So, like, decent size newsletter. And, um, I asked him like, 'What churn was and what he did to improve churn?' And he said, 'I can't tell you what to do to improve churn. I can tell you all the things that I did that consistently kept making it worse.' I was like, 'Okay.' He said, 'So, I started with just a newsletter once a month and one call a month.' He said, 'That's all I did and it churn was great and I was making lots of money.' And so, he said, 'So, then I just destroyed that by then going from calling, doing one call a week, sorry, doing one call a month to doing one call a week. And then I added a second call a week where I did Facebook Fridays where we talked about ad breakdowns.' And then went from sending one newsletter that was, you know, purely physical to doing one newsletter that was audio and digital. And he started basically just kept adding more and more things, uh, to his Ricard membership, and it just created more and more churn. And so, I think there's a lot to learn with just like, make the few things you do better because most people buy for only one reason and you just, and most people buying for the same reason. And so, it's like, if you just help them solve that one thing well. I remember when we were doing with, um, with Gym Launch, um, I, I got on the phone with like, you know, a bunch of our kind of like biggest, uh, kind of influencer. I mean, like my, I mean, when you have a community of 700 gyms, like there's influencers within that world. Um, and, uh, I was like, 'What do you think we can do to like, you know, add more value?' And they're like, 'Dude, we just want leads. They're like, 'Just get us leads.' Like, we don't, like everything, don't really care.' Like, 'We just need leads.' Um, and so I was like, 'Yeah, that's just the leads.' Like, or for, you know, it's like, it's usually like just the big obvious thing."

"About how high ticket, Alex, um..."

"I would like to know if you have like something different in the framework of value because I know it's like, 'Do it faster, easier, and with less risk.' Is there something else like to design high ticket offers or a framework that you have speaking about $3,000, $5,000 offer?"

"Well, the value, so basically, the reason that in my opinion that high ticket exists is just that the value of what you're delivering is higher. And so, part of that can be the things that you do to increase speed, increase ease, decrease risk, typically comes in the form of some work that you're doing as well. So, like, you know, a traditional high ticket model, like we'll set up your landing pages and your emails for you or whatever. So, it's like, we have automatically made this faster and easier for you and decreased the risk as you set it up wrong. Right? Okay. And so, for that little bit of work, you're now the, the value gap of you to your goal is much shorter. And so, you pay for that. But like, that's, that's basically the fundamental every high ticket offer."

"Add a service in, like, on the top of the community."

"You can, you don't have to, like, just, I'm just say like..."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Yeah. Because you could just sell information and make that high ticket. But get it, like, if you were selling, uh, you know, how to, uh, label jars for homes. I mean, that's cool. It just probably somebody who's doing that is probably more thrifty anyways. And so, how much value is that to them? So, it might be high ticket relative to them, but it's not going to be the same as somebody who shows you how to like flip commercial real estate. It's just that it's really just going to be the, the, the price that you charge is going to have some discount applied to what the outcome that you get people is based on the risk they take on. And so, this is where like, a lot of people in education, I think, get all but hurt about this, which is like, 'I made this guy a million dollars. He only paid me 50 grand.' And it's like, 'Yeah, but what about all the other hundred people who paid you 50 grand and made nothing?' And so, like, this guy took on risk to pay you 50 with no real promise, and he got a good return on it. And these guys took on risk. And so, there's a discount that's applied. And the discount is based on how hard it is, how likely it is, and how fast it is. And if you have an outcome that you can just consistently make things faster, easier, lower risk, then you can charge more because that discount applied to the outcome that they're going to get gets smaller and smaller. If every single person who signs up for your thing does $100,000 in profit in your first month, you will be able to charge a literal [ __ ] ton of money for that, right? And so, everything else just becomes approx, like, basically discounts on that. And this is why you want to create better and better services and products because you, in real time, can charge more."

"I have a question about the lifetime. If you already offering lifetime like publicly and you want to switch the lifetime to monthly, how would you change that? One to everyone on the outside and two to everyone on the inside."

"Well, if you stop selling it, you stop selling it. So, that's actually really not that big of a deal. You just don't sell that anymore."

"You do it."

"And then the people who got in for life, they got a good deal."

"Yeah. They're stoked."

"Yeah. And the other people..."

"They won't even notice."

"Yeah. They don't know."

"Yeah. Not paying that much attention to your price."

"Yeah."

"They don't even see your, they just go in."

"Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it."

"Um, so my question was, uh, kind of about churn a little bit. Um..."

"What's your goal?"

"Um, my goal..."

"Well, the goal is to get churn down because..."

"What, what is your churn?"

"Right now, it's uh..."

"Well, you have no churn."

"Yeah. What the [ __ ]? No, no, we we offer lifetime that..."

"We, we offer lifetime, lifetime and downsell to monthly if, um, essentially."

"Yeah, like the low, low is like for 50 a month."

"Just make it start again."

"It was like..."

"No, seriously. Just do a new offer."

"Yeah, we, we will when we..."

"Don't patch that thing. It's done. The reason, the reason I wanted to ask this is because our community, I wanted to tie back to what you were talking about like giving too much. And I was in one of those school calls where you mentioned how you had like joined, uh, an offer and when you first joined, you thought it was a scam because there was nothing in it. It was just one video, but you said that like Facebook ad video, I believe helped you a ton. And so, I kind of took inspiration on that to build my classroom. But the problem that we have with people that want a either a refund on the lifetime churn. The main problem, I'd say almost 90% of the time, their reasoning for wanting to leave the community is because they don't have enough time to put into learning this aspect. And like I said before, we teach social media."

"They don't have enough time for lifetime."

"Well, the, the problem I think is that we teach social media automation and in there we teach like pretty much every platform. So, we have almost like a different course on TikTok, on YouTube, on Snapchat. Yeah. Um, which I feel like is needed for what we teach, but at the same time, I feel like maybe it is overwhelming. And I, I don't really know how to approach this problem community. Like, we have our wins tabs and you see wins from people on TikTok, you see wins from people on YouTube, you see wins on Snapchat. And it, it really is great, but the problem is like unifying that community and there people who are doing three different things, um, it's worked in our benefit because we're able to keep options like, 'Hey, if Snapchat doesn't work, you can try this, you can try this, you can try this.' But I'm not sure if it's best necessarily to diversify that much."

"Do you guys do all three?"

"Yeah, we do."

"So, then it's kind of congruent. You just need to show them how they should pick."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. That's what we do."

"Yeah. Order, right? And I think also this is where like the unlocks for how many months they've been, they can unlock. It's like every two months you can do one. And so by month six, you have all three unlocked."

"Oh, genius. That is a good answer. I like that. I'll write that one down."

"Beer all day. Sure."

"To add to that, like if you lock a certain course, like they pay like, let's say 50 a month and you, you have three courses in there and you lock two of them, you only want to open. It's going to be a problem for people. They said, 'I paid 50 bucks and I don't get everything.'"

"I think as long as you're clear is what actually, you know, the..."

"They're locked. How, though? Like, how are they locked?"

"Uh, let's say time-based. So, it depends what you promise them on the about page. If you said, 'You'll get instant access to three courses,' and then they're locked, then there'll be a problem."

"Yeah. But basically, if you, if you position it, because this is how I'm thinking how I would change the about page. I would just say like, 'Month one, this is what we do. Month two, this is what we do.' So, it's basically like showing the, the stages of progression or showing the customer journey for them. Then it's like, 'Oh, you have things to look forward to.' And then, as promised, at month two, that will unlock."

"Perfect. Yeah. The thing is, we kind of want to switch in a way where we're teaching the foundations instead of just like actually take the time, learn the foundations, learn the journaling, and then actually learn the technicals. Should there be a way where we can do it time-based, but also if they're able to progress faster because some people just have more time to put into it, they can just unlock it faster with like price?"

"Annual works great for that."

"Yeah."

"Yeah."

"Is the grinder, is that, is that live yet?"

"Yeah."

"That is live. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's that, too. They can work for it or pay for it."

"Amazing. Yeah. So, I have a question about, um, how to like make a product where it's like value per minute, but it seems like they got really what they paid for. So, what I, my mistake was like, I just, my first tab in my community was 'Go here, start here, here's your roadmap.' And the roadmap was like 10 pages long. And I had 20 people say, 'What? I don't even know what to do.' And it wasn't, it was organized. I had like navigations and things, but people were super overwhelmed when they got it."

"So, I'm trying to figure out how to create a product where it's like value per minute and it's not like hour-long videos, but the videos are 30 minutes of just like insane value that they can take actions on each, like every single minute they're writing notes the whole time. Um, rather than 3 hours of me just talking for 3 hours because me personally, I wouldn't watch something for like three, I mean, cuz I feel like the YouTube videos that are like three hours, four hours long of like, you uploaded or not you, but..."

"I do."

"Yeah, mean like the team. Yeah, like the four-hour sales masterclass. And the masterclasses do good, but they do good because people keep coming back to them, um, and they don't finish them once. So, it's like a saved video. And that's why podcasts do good because people either watch it all in one and the watch time's super long, or people save it and come back to it and come back to it and come back to it. So, I'm like in the middle of like either doing one or the other and how to like, I guess, separate the video to where it's most valuable for them to take action. I think like..."

"I think most education products could be, you could remove 90% of what it is by just telling someone what they need to do. So, instead of explaining the why, which most times the explanations are made up and they have no like, I would because like this is so prevalent in the marketing community. It's like, 'Oh, because the psychological.' I just like, 'How do you know that?' And then it's like, it's like, 'Right, you just made that up.' So, just don't say that and just say, 'I know that when I add a countdown timer to pages, a higher percentage of people opt in.' Fine. Cool. So, add a countdown timer to your page. And you, if you'll notice across like all of my stuff, we like, I'm pretty militant about this is that like, state the facts and tell the truth. I could say it all the time. Um, it's like, I don't know most things. I just know that like, and I use anecdotes as my, as my examples. It's like, I don't know if this will work for you. I know it worked for me and this way you can give it a shot, right? And so, if you're selling an outcome, then fundamentally you're just teaching them the inputs that create the outcome. And so, instead of taking this like three-hour soliloquy of you just being like, 'This is where we're going on this..."

magical journey. It's just like, "Hey, set up your account, do this, you know, like take the first step here, upload your first video." Video needs to have these structures, like here's how you record your hook, here's how you record your meat and organize it, here's how, you know, whatever.

I feel like, I feel like so I had like a roadmap where each step is like a project management roadmap thing. I feel like I just lay that out and then create content on each step and explain it with me talking and me going over it. And then I feel like that would be pretty good.

And when if you have like this big massive list that seems overwhelming, you just chunk it up. So it's like there's four phases: phase one, phase two, phase three. And then when you get into phase one, it breaks down more. And then it's just like it's way, it's way easier. You've got list steps and stories. Like there's the basically the core functions of content. And so you have these are the four phases we're going to go through. Like this is a list, or rather steps. These are the four steps. This is step one. Inside of step one, we have, uh, story and example, which is really what it is. And then your list of it's either something you have to check all these boxes before to move to the next thing, or it's something you have to do in order. Fundamentally, that's it. Education is just you have to do all four of these things to meet the requirements to move on, or you have to do them in this order as well. That's it. Like that is education in its most basic form.

And then the thing, the thing that I was going to ask for, like a feature, I guess. Um, time unlocks it makes sense and I like it. Um, but there's some people that move faster than other people and get things done faster than other people. So if it's like, if I set it for 30 days, but somebody finishes it upgrade in 15 days.

What were you saying?

Upgrade to annual.

Yeah. But then if they upgrade to annual, they might get the whole thing and then they have the whole.

But then they paid you the entire year.

Because they move fast. So they get the whole year, but they're going to do it sooner. But then you still got paid for the whole year.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, I'd like some feedback on just the offer that we're planning to run for October, specifically when it just can be for Sam and new as well.

Awesome.

Our thinking is we're trying to figure out what extra thing we can give away. But now, after like listening to this conversation, we already give away a ton of stuff in the community. I mean, there's like 13 calls throughout the week. We're trying to think, "Oh, could it be an extra call? Could it be?"

Go to 14 for sure.

What about a prize?

Yeah. Give something great.

Right? Like,

Say again.

What about a prize and a competition?

Cyber Truck.

Yeah. Just be so confident you. Yeah, we already have.

What if you gave away a Cyber Truck?

Yeah. Or 100 grand.

And you won, and then you just gave away your Cyber Truck.

Do you have a Cyber Truck?

Yes. You.

Well, we have like a challenge in the community, in the community right now that's like the best progress throughout the month gets something. And then we also have like leaderboard prizes. So the top three get prizes. But I feel like, again, we're like, [ __ ] I feel like we need something more.

But do you think it's as simple as maybe just kind of like a price drop? Like an early Black Friday thing, and that would kind of just.

What problem are you solving? Like, what are we, why are we doing this?

He wants to win the win.

Oh, you want to win the October school year. Okay. So you just want to drive a ton next month, is what you're thinking.

Okay.

But we feel like we have to like double. We have to like.

Oh, yeah. All the heavy hitters are going to be coming back for sure.

Within one month.

Evelyn's gearing up. We got all the old gladiators are dusting off their armor, getting back in the arena. Yeah.

That's going to be savage. I'm so excited.

I'm focused on the speed run.

Oh, yeah. Oh, there you go.

I need to do the 90 days, so I'm not going to feed them.

Fine. Well, you'll still have December, so you just crush. But basically, how do we simplify it to where that person feels like they're winning and we're losing on the deal, and they would want to come in, but they we have to position it in a way that they have to join in October.

Going to get paid. Tim.

Is it, is it just like, do you think a price drop would just do that? Or.

I wouldn't go with price.

I mean, we didn't, we didn't price drop school.

Yeah. Well, what would you recommend then?

I think a big prize is a really good idea. Just a really big prize, like you guys are doing.

I mean, we're doing it because we think it will work.

Would you rather do one big prize or like 10?

I, I think, um, I would strongly recommend one big prize.

Well, it sounds cooler. The top 10 will get 10 grand each, or first place gets a Cyber Truck.

Right? But what would be the challenge? Cuz I feel like people that just came in that month feel like they wouldn't even have a shot to win that prize, or like how would you go about picking the winner in that case? Just like, it can't just be like a random raffle that anybody that joins gets it.

Well, that's literally exactly what it is for school.

What were you gonna say?

Well, I guess yours is like whoever wins, right? But ours would just be like.

Both work though, I think.

Yeah.

Join in September. Join in October and win a chance to win a Cyber Truck. I don't know if you're going to use a Cyber Truck, but something like that.

Yeah. People, dude, people will join. So, I think like, okay, this is the problem that you're struggling with right now is the exact same problem of like, why would somebody want to sign up for something that says $500 a month of extra income? A lot of people will join just to see it happen. Like, they'll go in to see what everyone else. Like, on some level, if you ask every person who's joining school this month, "Do you think you'll win the Cyber Truck?" If we asked, like, two times, they'd be like, "Okay, I don't really think I'm going to win it." But they're still going to like, people want to be contenders. And I think there's a huge value there. They want to be in contention. They don't think they're necessarily going to win, but they're like, "I want to be in the game, you know?" And I think that that's what it raises the stakes of competition. Like, why do you watch sports and then bet? You bet because you just want you want some, you want some, you want some blood, you know what I mean? You want some, right? Like you want some skin in the game. Uh, it's like you want stakes. So, what you do is like, we're adding stakes to the game. Just kid.

So any, so anybody? Yeah. So, but like how, like maybe I just missed it. I apologize.

How do we pick the winner? Is it just some random?

Well, isn't it like, person who makes the most amount using your your tactics?

Yeah. So that could be, so it could just be the biggest progress in one month. And that could be anything. Like, it doesn't have to be.

Your mini school game in your community.

Just do a mini school. I mean, dude, you're a school. You're like a microcosm of school. So just do that.

So it's like the same challenge that we have now, essentially, but just doubled down on that and put a big prize. It's almost like we're running the same exact school games except with a big ass prize.

Yeah. What? There's a guy in Mexico that he do like big lunches.

And it's a four-class launch. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. On Friday, he announced the offer and he announced that he will open the card on Monday. And the first one that signs up will win a day with Tito. That means they will fly them to Japan and they will have like a full day with you and all that. But it was for the first one. So.

Be ready because on Monday at 8.

I will open the card and the first one will win. And it's crazy.

So you can do that.

That's how you break a payment processor.

Yeah.

Actually, they are ready for that because a lot of people do that in Brazil. It's like called Materes.

And they do crazy [ __ ] like, "Oh, we will open the carts at 6:00 a.m. So, everyone is ready at 6:00 a.m." Because they have something just from 6:00 a.m. to 7:00 a.m. and for the first one, something in the first 10, something. So, you can do that.

Like create real urgency for people, and it works great because.

Yeah, you can do that.

Okay. So, you'd recommend just keeping it 125 and you want to do both like challenge and.

I still think you guys are underpriced, personally.

Yes. Because you guys close like 70% of your onboarding calls.

Yeah, but we're just, we just want to keep it like low ticket, long retention, like as long as we can. Like we just want to see.

You guys should sell annual.

Yeah, but that won't help us win the games. That'll be cheaper if we sell annual at 1,200 compared to just selling it.

Maybe we can spend more on ads. Yeah, dude.

Which could help you win the games.

Just spend, spend the Cyber Truck cost on ads.

No, no. I mean, if you got more people to buy annual, you would have more cash that you could then spend on ads that would then help you win the school game.

If you 10x your LTV to CAC ratio, you will sell more customers. And did you say like, if I were to say, "I can 5x your cash flow to the business," do you think you can make up for the 20% decrease in sales volume with a 5x increase in cash?

Oh, you could also give away a better prize if you had more people buying annual. So money gives you more power to do cool [ __ ]. So.

Sam's quote of the day.

Money helps you do more cool [ __ ]. That is true. I align with that.

Cool. Thank you.

Um, so based on everything that you and Sam have said to us about our offer and how [ __ ] it is, um, we kind of were whispering and trying to create something here on the spot to see because I didn't want to leave and then create a [ __ ] offer, come back next school games and you're like, "That's [ __ ] again."

Yeah. Yeah.

Um, so pretty much what I wrote down here is, um, switching it to like $50 a month toward $300 annual, but I wanted some sort of incentive to get them to upgrade potentially. So maybe, um, only giving that weekly Q&A.

One group or two?

Sorry.

One group or two?

What do you mean?

Just one.

Okay.

I'm not going to lie. I don't agree.

What do you mean?

Dension in the ranks. Keep going.

But still, I mean, I just want to hear feedback and then we can adjust it. So $50 a month or $300 annual. Upgrading to annual gives you the weekly call, the weekly Q&A call. Um, and I liked how you mentioned using time unlocks to give them the different uh forces essentially. Um, so implementing that potentially. Um, I think you guys added an option to make it so that they can see either wait or pay now, if I'm correct.

Yeah, wait or wait or pay?

Yeah. Implementing that. And then the big thing that I wanted to ask is for the high ticket. Martin suggested that we could potentially do a $1,500 like kind of setup fee and then doing $500 a month after to continue the, um, high ticket. I want to know what you thought about that, having like a setup fee and then monthly afterwards.

Yeah, I, I'm a big fan of that.

Okay.

All right.

Rosie, 15 bucks is just too low.

Well, we could change the number though.

50 bucks is just too low.

Why? I think my audience has more money than I give them credit for.

Yeah, but I mean.

What's the best month you've ever had?

Best month?

Yeah.

110.

Were you happy?

Sure.

Would you like to do it again?

Yeah. So, you need like 2,000 customers. It makes it simple if you sell it $50 a month. Like, I've really like tried very hard, honestly.

You just need a simple number. Like my product is $50 a month. My goal is $100,000 a month. I need 2,000 people. My conversion rate on my about page is this. I can generate this much traffic organically per day, and that'll get me this. My churn rate is this. So that'll do this. I'm going to now try ads. My cost per acquisition is this. If I use annual, I can spend more. Like, you're just trying to balance a basic equation, really.

Do you guys have a model? Has anyone here built an Excel sheet model for how their numbers work?

Evelyn does, cuz she runs ads. Is everyone else?

The lifetime one? Definitely not.

Yeah.

Cuz that one doesn't look pretty. Yeah, I would strongly recommend just literally putting like clicks, conversion, price, churn, and then that way you can start moving the variables around and be like, "Okay, I my I max our organic at this. Like, I don't think I'm going to be able to send more traffic than this." And let's say your conversion rates, you know, 6 or 7% because it's warmer rather than, you know, 4% because it's just like the the average amount. So, the thing is is like the the questions you guys have are solvable with math rather than guesswork. And so if you want to do $100,000 a month, which I made up, but let's just do that as our as our baseline since we haven't been able to get to a number yet.

Let's do, uh, 250.

250 is the goal.

Lock us like top five in October.

Okay. So fine. 250 a month. Um, getting $50 a month to 250 would be what? 5,000 members. Yeah. Yeah, I would still just aim for 100 first, honestly.

Well, you're not even there. So.

Yeah. Yeah, but it's like lack of effort.

Pardon?

Well, dude, just do consistent effort first and then, you know, do more.

It's what effort? What did you say?

He said it's a lack of effort to set up.

It's an It's a goal.

Yeah. When you get there, you can say, "Okay, now 250."

Uh.

Winning school games wasn't even a goal. It's just like, just kind of did it. Yeah, but now you aren't.

I mean, 250 it would be cool, but like if we hit it, cool, we're done.

Yeah, but you need to keep making money every month for the rest of your life. Yeah. The goal isn't to win. Look, that's like one milestone. Winning the school games. Cool. But now you need to feed you guys every month for the rest of your life. $50k a month for the rest of my life for you.

Yeah.

No, no, no. It's a first step.

I could live like this forever. Chill.

You don't have a wife. You don't have kids.

I tried to. Okay.

Just get to 100 grand a month.

And then make it 200. It's I swear when people aim for these insane numbers, it messes them up from the very beginning. Like my first goal with school was just like to, I think it was to get like 100 grand a year.

Okay. Unrelated to what we talked about before, but moving to content because I know you create a lot of content on a lot of different platforms. And the struggle that I find myself having is that, um, you know, I want to make Reels for example, and I want to make long-form videos, but to be honest, considering the fact that I run the community plus I actually, you know, work on what I teach in the community, right? Um, I don't have unlimited time on my hands. I need to find like some sort of balance and I'm struggling on if I should just up like do short-form content, just do long-form content, or how to create a mix of both that will drive traffic to the community.

I think it's looking at everything else that you're doing that's not making you as much money as advertising the business. Like advertising is one of the highest leverage things that you can do. And so if you're managing the community, can you guys help and manage the community?

Yeah. What do you guys do? Yeah. Yeah.

I get all the sales.

So you close. So you.

Oh, you do sales.

No, no, no. I'm the like, he gets, he's the creator that gets like views on Reels. He's the growth operator. I like create the the community. I'm like the one of the coaches in there.

Um.

But you said you were making content.

Yeah.

Well, I'm trying to start making content myself. Yeah. So, right now he's the one getting the views. I want to have two people getting views.

That'd be amazing. Yeah.

The idea is us to like do this together, but the problem was I started with a following already on the social media.

Yeah.

And then sorry if I'm like nothing.

What does the third guy do?

Martin?

Yeah. What does he got him from Eddie?

He, yeah, he's the Eddie Cumberbatch disciple.

Yeah, but what is that? What does he do?

Um, so he built the funnel for us. He created like the script for our VSSL, created our about page on school, created the framework for our school, manages the community.

And Martin's doing [ __ ] everything. That's still mine.

He's like, "Thank you."

So maybe like two of you guys can make content, one person can run the community.

Yeah, that's possible.

I mean, that was a plan.

But.

Eddie just can't really get the amount of traffic that we need to kind of like get sales from here to to actually switch over. So there's not enough confidence on my end to switch over and drop like what I'm.

We try to, but it's really hard to convert just because he, I would say he doesn't have enough social proof. Not not like that he haven't made the money to have the social proof, but it just he doesn't have that enough social proof, um, in his followers, right? They they really trust him enough. Well, maybe one of you guys, maybe you can run ads, maybe you can do organic, and then you can run the community.

Or help with your content.

Yeah, that was the other.

On all platforms, maxing out volume, maxing out quality. If not, then it could make sense for you to go to your content.

So, if you guys are in it together, like going from, how many followers do you have across platforms?

Like 2.2 million.

Awesome. So, if he's at 2.2, going from like 2.2 to 2.3 is way easier than going from like 500 to 100,000.

Wait, how many followers do you have?

Like 3,000 on IG.

Why the [ __ ] you even trying?

Yeah.

Like definitely.

Yeah, you should just forget about making content.

Well, it's just again, this is if I want to be clear. This is so if we're talking about this as a business, right, is that you want to double down on the resources you get the best returns on. And so if you think about entrepreneurship in general, all the way chunked up, like strategy is prioritization of resources. You have limited resources. You have unlimited things you can do. And so the people who move faster in business are the ones who get better returns from the resources they invest. That's how that's all it is. And so you have time, effort, skill, and he you can either blow that through a trumpet that has 3,000 or you can blow it through a trumpet that has 2.2 million, right? You're going to get more lift there anyways. And so if you can put your effort into the front end for him so that you can 10x your, you know, uh, your persona, that'll drive more traffic through everything. And I would say like half your time goes to amplifying his stuff. The other half goes to management, and then Martin, you run everything else.

Like has a 40-person content team. He's not going to now say, "Let's build one of the editors YouTube channels to drive traffic to acquisition.com."

Is it an equity prize? No, I guess we just.

Are you guys all evenly split on this or like, I don't even know how this works, but like.

No, we're not evenly split. Okay, it's uh what 42 42.

Wait.

Well, well, we me and him get the same.

Got it. Well, as long as you're as long as you're building the asset together, then it shouldn't be an issue. That's kind of my point. Like the business has all of these assets in it. It has your skill set with all the tech stuff. You understand this social media, uh, automation stuff, and you have the following. And so it's like, use your thing on his thing, and you run the backend tech, and the other half of your time goes to managing the community.

That's a good idea. All right. Thank you.

Glad we untangled that. We're, I'm sure we'll get some more tangles. I feel like we got, I feel like you guys got some more. You guys are definitely most entertaining though, so it's all good. Uh, question reverse to that, basically is, um.

How do you know whether you should be putting your time into ad spend for yourself as the creator versus the people that have succeeded from your community?

Uh, what do you mean, actually?

So, like if we have successful people, teaching them, like affiliate community, like that's what we're teaching, right? For TikTok, the people in our community become successful. Do we focus our attention on those people creating ad spend, or do we focus on the creator themselves, the teacher?

I still don't understand the question.

So, my testimonials.

You mean using them in your ads? Is that where.

Creating their ads. Do we kind of focus in on them to drive a ton of traffic for a ton of different creators, or do you focus on the main creator, myself?

He's asking, or does he, the creator, make ads himself?

Like his results versus somebody else?

Want to drive into one specific thing first because we haven't done ads yet.

It was just ads. Yeah.

Oh, I would do it. I mean, so I'll tell you personally. So, Gym Launch, I looked at, we did, we had like 200 ads that we had made that I at least that I reviewed over like a weekend. It was a long time. Um, and I looked at, okay, well, what was the top, remember still the 10% thing I did? I was like, okay, what's the top 10% ads? What are the top 1% ads? And so, the top 50 ads that we had in Gym Launch, 40 of the top 50 were customers. So I now, if you look at the representative sample of all of the ads that we had made, it definitely wasn't 80% customer ads because I could just get on camera whenever I wanted to. But getting, you know, testimonials. Now, the reason we're able to sell Gym Launch long-term is because we put all of the systems in place to regularly capture testimonials at many different customer intervals. So that we had this m I called it the marketing machine, but basically it was, I remember it as soon as we figured out that I, like my face was key in risk for the business. I put together this seven-step plan of the different places that we could capture testimonials for customers and then have those automatically pushed to my marketing team. And so every week, they would get like 20 or 30 videos inbound from our community that they would immediately just push out as ads. And that's basically what we ran, uh, the entire year of the sale. And we still do that now.

Okay. I see the way you're going about it then.

Yeah. So think about this way. If you have a more diverse, basically the more people in your ads, the more diversity that you will attract to your business. So like if you have girls in the ads who are white, you're going to get more white girls. Do you have more white women in your communities? 80%.

Oh, is it? Okay. So, she just be like, "It's all black dudes." And I'm like.

It's like totally messed that one up. No. Okay, good. Right. So, it's 80% women. And so, part of it is that at least on like Meta, for what I know, um, the platform AI knows that people convert at a higher percentage to ads of people that look like them. And so, even if you don't target them, Meta will go to people that they believe will convert at the highest percentage. And so the person in the ad affects where the ad or who the ad gets displayed to. And so if you want to have a wider, more diverse audience, then have a wider, more diverse array of people in the ads. And so you should still be in the ads, sure, because that's easy. You can do that in the morning, whatever. But then putting the systems in place to capture all of the testimonials from customers. So that's, you know, first sales call, you record it. Their, you know, success call later. You record it 90 days when they have an amazing transformation. You record that. Then you go back, you take all three of those calls, slice them together, boom, there's an ad. When they, uh, when they hit some sort of TikTok sales, I'm sure you give them some sort of award for doing that or like some sort of kudos. In order to unlock that that award, they have to make a post about it and they have to do a post of the video. That becomes a testimonial. And then when they get the reward in person, they do an unboxing. That becomes a video. Like each of those, basically, you can get two or three testimonials. And then when you see them in person, which you should do once a year, uh, with all the people who are like the winners, then you can have all of them do ads there. And so it's like you can just get multiple bites of the apple for every customer who walks in the business.

Okay.

So, should you do it? Yes. And you should also make ads for yourself.

Okay. So dabble into both immediately.

Yeah. Okay.

I have a question. Um, so up until now, I was marketing for, I was, because I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't better, I didn't know better, I was doing a lot of income claiming.

Okay.

Um, and I was all it was all based on, "If you do this, you buy my program, then you're going to make this much money."

So, how do you, like, how do you own up to, like, up until this time?

Like, so I transition to.

Data. What do you mean by that?

So, you look at the customers you had in the past. You ask them how much they made since they worked with you. Then you take the average and you say, "The average person who works with me has made this increase," or "has made this much total," or whatever.

But I'm not going to keep doing what I was doing before. I'm doing those.

You just shift your marketing message. You don't need to like make an announcement. You just change what you say.

So, if I was like, "Everybody owns school makes $10,000 a month," that would be a lie, right? But if I, I'm like, "Okay, well, thank God you caught it. So now we're just going to serve everyone in the communities. Now we don't have to because we have the software, we can just see. Like, okay, well, the average pay community makes $1,360 a month. So that's now going to be the marketing message."

But if I'm promoting networking.

Well, they still make money selling the stuff, right?

With their own businesses.

Uhhuh.

Uhhuh.

And so, I mean, fundamentally, if you're selling a network, you're not really selling a network. People don't want a network, they don't want software, they don't want drills. They want holes in the wall. So, they're getting into a network because they hope to do some deal, they hope to increase the revenue in some way. Like, there's some benefit that they're joining the network for. Now, you may be, um, you may find out that people want to join the network not for financial reasons. They might just be like super [ __ ] lonely and have no other people, you know, that they talk to who are like interested in business too. Like, you can find out what the needs and aspirations are of the avatar, and then the quote claims are going to be about that.

Okay. The. Thank you.

Yeah. The average person in my network makes two friends.

Yeah. So, that's actually, I would, I did promise him I was going to answer his question.

Yeah, it just kind of relates to ads. So, um, yeah, I, I had a question about retargeting because I know some people are like really big on retargeting, some people don't use it at all. And so, do you have like different scripts for retargeting, or do you just pump out the same ads? What's your strategy?

Yeah, I think retargeting, um, if you think about everyone here familiar with, um, Eugene. Okay, I'm not even gonna say it. So, Eugene Schwarz has levels of awareness. So you have unaware, solution, sorry, problem aware, then you have problem aware, you have solution aware, product, and then most. I don't like these titles, but this is what he, um, what he used. So, I'm just giving you from the horse's mouth. All right. And so, think about this like an onion, or that's a terrible drawing, but basically it's wide to narrow. And so, retargeting is pretty much only going to these people, right? They clicked, they saw some stuff, whatever. And so, um, most aware is typically like what you would basically hide. This is existing customers. These are people who know who you are, what you sell. These are people who know about the types of businesses that you are. These are people who know they're struggling with an issue, but don't know how to solve it. And these are people who have no idea where their ass is. And so this is the biggest part of the, this is the biggest slice of the market. And so what this is like marketing 2011, but when you're when you're crafting ads in general, the hooks are going to be based on which slice of the audience you're going after. So if you make a purely offer-driven ad, then you're basically only targeting these two. It's people who are existing customers who just need to hear what the offer is, or people who know who you are, uh, to a degree. Uh, maybe you're getting a little bit into solution-aware, who just need to hear the offer, right? And they're like, "Oo, that's enough for me to take action." That's why this is the, the fastest path to money. These are the people that are closest to the end zone. They just need a tip. Now, if you, if you, uh, who here's seen the new VSSL for school? Okay. So, the first 90 seconds, I think maybe even 60 seconds, whatever it is, 60 to 90 seconds of the of the VSSL is me just doing pain hooks. It's just different angles of pain over and over and over again because we're getting an ocean of people. And so I just need someone to nod their head up and down and be like, "Yes, I struggle from that pain." So I have to take someone from like, "What the [ __ ] is this?" to, "Okay, hey, are you struggling? Are you waking up to pee multiple times a night?" Now, they don't know that I'm going to sell them ashwagandha root. It could also be I'm selling them a bed comforter. It could also be I'm selling them a hypnotic, you know, listener thing that like it doesn't matter. Like the the problem base to hook is so wide, you can then lead them to your solution. But if they know that I'm, if I'm advertising from Ashwagandharoot, then I'm just going to be making an offer about why Ashwagandha is awesome, why they should buy it. But way fewer people are going to respond to that than this larger hook. And so the retargeting is just further down. And so typically, so this is a long way of answering. Um, typically it's just going to be a like, hey, reminder of that offer that you saw, like with a different, a different angle on it.

You do, you go, I haven't seen many, unless it's subtle. I haven't seen many retargeting ads for school. Is that not.

It's probably just me being lazy.

No, it's the same ad.

Yeah, they're just hitting you again.

We don't bother. We found that out a long time ago. There's no need to make a different ad for a targeting ad. Just use the same ad.

So, if you're like, "How does that match with what Alex literally just said?" Um, it's that we're also going for a [ __ ] ocean. Like, having specific retargeting ads does not hurt.

Do you ever go venture into the unaware?

We are right now.

I want to share something for the ones that want to start like with smaller budget and kind of work the way up. I find it's best to start with proof from within your community. So it's like also pain-centric from what your community wanted. It's like, um, or it can be a win, like a win of the week. You highlight like a customer story through the screenshot and you tell like, "How did that screenshot happen?" Or you give a walkthrough of your classroom, but you also prove something, right? Or you know, "All my members wanted this, so I just created this resource for them, and now it's here in the membership." And then I just get back to my community and I'm like, "Hey guys, you know, I'm creating those new ads, and if you have an experience in the community you want to share, there, leave an honest comment. It will really help me out." So then I'm just posting them to the page, they leave a comment, then I pick that up with retargeting ads first. So now I'm loading up with social proof, but it's all the positive comments, and then when I'm rolling out to colder audiences, people are basically sold through the comments. So it's not like, so, and because it's from a piece of content from the community, people get kind of a lot of context, and then it's again, that specificity that makes it so tangible for people. And then as you've built up your data a little bit more, then you can test wider angles, but you start to work with lookalike audiences, so you're not completely shutting in the dark. Start here, move your way out.

Showing what's inside the community to them.

Video of walkthrough was like one of the best ads I had, but then I had like an ad for, "Do you want to run ads?" And then that took completely off. So I was like, "Okay, that's probably the winning angle from my community."

The, um, the highest ROI that I'll say from a retargeting perspective though, is cross-platform retargeting. So rather than thinking like, "Do I need to like, again, this is like levels of effort. If you have more specific messaging, ads will do better. But if, if you're doing like at least 2011 version of this, if they hit your page, then ideally they should see you across basically they should just see you everywhere after that point, and you consistently rotate through all of the other ads that you have to those people now that you know they took some sort of action. But it's like, if they see me on Meta right now, we're only on two platforms for school. So on the on the other side of that, there's still an ocean of platform, an ocean of traffic on.

Have any of you seen YouTube ads yet?

No.

That's a good sign.

Do you go, is it okay if I ask a question that that goes deeper into it? It might be a little hard.

I can answer it.

Okay, cool. So.

I think you, you made a tweet a while back said, "Great marketing makes sales irrelevant," or something like that. So, do you try to, and I know that I've heard low-ticket philosophy that you want to like sell the product in the ad, and then the high-ticket philosophy is that the only goal of the ad is to get the click. So, like, what goal do you optimize for in the ads, and will you try to sell the product through the ad, or just make.

For what?

I guess for high ticket.

For high ticket, normally we give away something really valuable in the ad as a lead magnet, and then explain that on the call. We can personalize that lead magnet to them. That's been by far my most effective way of selling high ticket straight. Your objective is cost per call, right? When you're running ads for high ticket.

Cost per call attended. Yeah.

Yeah. But you can't really track that like in with the ads tracking. So it's cost per call.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And once you get enough data, you can do cost per sale.

Yes. And that's what, when as soon as you can do that, you instantly stop optimizing for the call.

Yeah, we have a, um, so what we did is we have, uh, when a call shows, um, we have a pixel fire from our CRM to Facebook, and then that optimizes the pixel around shows.

If it's within 5 days.

Yeah. So, like with school, we have, we've got no choice but to optimize for trials because we got a 14-day trial, and Facebook has a 5-day attribution window. So, we have no choice. But it's a very good, a very good proxy, right? Yeah. And then you just watch your trial conversion rate to make sure that's not decaying, right? Because at one point it was, we were getting really cheap trials, but trial conversion rate was going down because it was just spending all of the money in third-world countries. So then we had to pull those back, right? So like you need a quality metric and then an early indicator. So that would be you'd be looking at your call conversion rate, shop rate, and you'd be looking at your cost per call in some harmony, right?

Oh, cool. Yeah. Through, um, through like tools like Hyros and things like that, you can fire through, um, like we use HubSpot for some of our companies, and they can, you can basically when a salesman does something, it can fire towards, um, the pixel.

Yeah. So that was my question, like, you guys are looking at like data for ads and things. So my whole thing is like content, organic YouTube. I'm trying to look at what data can I grab with Google Analytics and then justify my private.

Sam is like, nobody uses Google Analytics.

For YouTube.

Just Google Analytics in general. Useless.

Well, yeah. I was going to use Hyros to track like conversions from YouTube videos. Um, and then like my whole offer is trying to get clients from YouTube. So, I'm trying to justify that with my pricing upfront, saying like, "Okay, we'll help you make 30 videos." Usually, our best customer, or like our average customer, does this with 30 videos.

Is it best or average? Because those are big differences.

Yeah. Um, so that I'm trying to like get data from YouTube and then justify my pricing with data. So, it's like I'm not, I'm not selling you a dream. I'm selling you like real data that you can look at. And it's kind of like that with paid ads. Like any, like a paid ads agency is like, "Okay, well, we do this for this many days, look at this, this."

Can you restate the question?

How to look at data for organic content.

So, I think it's the same question you guys had, which is like, one of the easier ways is just send a survey and then get the results from the survey.

I'm saying like conversion, conversions. Yeah.

For yourself.

No, so I make a YouTube video, I'm trying to see sales from YouTube videos.

Oh God, I thought you were trying to advertise what your customers were doing.

To justify the inver, the investment that their clients are.

Right. I was just solving it differently. I was just saying, "Go talk to your customers, say how much money you've made, and then use that because that's what people want."

He needs to know if I put out 30 videos, how do I know how many sales came from that?

Yeah. For you or for your customers?

Ted, well, for me, I guess.

Is it though? It's, it's, it's, it's, I'm trying to jade it to where it's like, I use my data to then.

Justify my pricing.

Well, actually, hold on. So, right now you use YouTube organic exclusively. Okay. So, then all of your sales are coming from YouTube organic. So, then there's your attribution.

That's your attribution system.

It's 100%. You have very, very accurate attribution.

That's more accurate than Hyros.

Yeah. Well, I'm be, dude, I'm, I'm trying, like, we're trying to solve this problem for you. Like, you're only on YouTube and you're like, "I want to be able to track how conversions are coming in." It's like, all of the ones you have are from YouTube.

Yeah, I think I'm making it too hard. I'm trying to see like what specific videos so then I know what.

Who cares?

I, I do that. Um.

The answer, if you even if you do track it, the answer will be a mixture of all kinds of them. And that compounding. So like, one of the things that Alex always talks about is that when he, you probably remember this, when he did, when he asked his his clients as to if they were just making a decision from talking to them or the stuff that they had seen prior. So if you, if you actually talk to your clients, you'll see that it's not just one video that made the sale. It's like the compounding of all the things that you have. So they feel like they know you, they feel like they can trust you, and they can buy. So, one decision might push them over the edge of making the decision to buy, but it's also because they already had this collection of videos thinking that they know you, like you, and trust you, right? Because I like when you and I met, I felt like I knew you and I and I trusted you because they, yo, right? Because he would DM me and he was like, "Yo." Uh, so I felt like I trusted you, right? Because of all the stuff that I had seen from you. And it's the same thing with your.

Great, she's great.

Is the, is the same thing with your clients. It's not one video because that's what I see with my clients. It's not one video. One video might have made them make the decision, but it was the collection of them thinking that I'm everywhere. Being omnipresent is what made them.

It's a great call back for everybody who runs ads. Um, there was a period of time where my ad performance dropped, and we're like, "What happened?" And.

So when we traced back, uh, what had changed is I stopped talking about gym stuff and started talking about general business stuff. And when we had run a survey of our customers, um, 78% of our buyers had consumed at least two pieces of long-form content prior to purchasing. And so once we realized that, we were like, "Oh, how do we engineer people consuming two pieces of long-form content prior to getting on calls with us?"

And so that's where, like, with outbound, we would be like, "Cool, watch this video and, you know, read or listen to this podcast. Or like, do you like to listen? Do you like to watch? Do you like to read?" And then they would be like, "Ah, I'm more of a reader." Like, "Cool, here's the book. Hey, do you want to, you like listening? Cool. Here's the audio version. Hey, like, you know what I mean?" Like, we would, we would triage that upfront so we knew that it was the 80/20. It's like, all my best customers had consumed long-form content, and that made them more likely to buy and stick. And so, "Cool, how do we get everyone to be like that?"

"Your question is, how do you track which YouTube videos book calls? Is that right? And you use what types of YouTube videos?"

"You can just add a UTM tag to the end of each of your Calendly link in each YouTube video, and it'll track it straight to Calendly."

"It's such a pain."

"I think you can do, I make, uh, new links every single video."

"But can't you just sense it? Like, you release a video, your calendar's booked for the days after that video, and everyone says, 'Man, that video was awesome.'"

"Like,"

"Yeah, I've had like 20 people tell me a specific video, dude. More [ __ ] like that."

"What, dude? Like, okay, so, okay, this, I feel this is probably worth everyone at home listening to this, too. What's your revenue right now?"

"Uh, 40K."

"Okay, dude, don't [ __ ] worry about it. We don't have UTM parameters for our YouTube videos."

"Why would you need them? Like, why is"

"I'm just saying, don't worry about it. Just like, you know, like we did a bunch of wide videos for a quarter, and then I figured out that it didn't get me business owners. Okay, so then I stopped doing that. You know what I mean? Because fundamentally, okay, remember what I said earlier about like, what is this going to change in my behavior? Like, what, like, okay, if I make a video and it gets fewer calls, then you would make fewer videos like that. Or you just think that that video is a bad video. So it's like, you have this, you really want to get all this data, but it's like, okay, now that you have it, now what?"

"Exactly."

"You already have it. You already know."

"You already know the answer. So that, my, my point is, is like, your behavior is not going to change if you have this, if this UTM track, which is a shitload of work, and it's not going to change anything. You already know the videos that are working."

"Worse, I reckon on everything."

"Well, the reason we don't do it, too, is that I like to be able to change my, my descriptions across all YouTube videos at once. And as soon as you do that once, all the UTM [ __ ] disappears. And so if we want to say like, cuz like when my next book comes out, all my YouTube video descriptions are going to be like, 'Sign up for the bookworms,' everything."

"Yeah. Recommend. How do you change all, all descriptions of your YouTube videos with one one?"

"It's built into"

"Yeah, it's built into YouTube lets you do that."

"Find and replace, right?"

"Yeah. Like you just go description, and then you say edit, and then you say change all, and then it says, 'Are you sure you want to do this?' And then you're like, 'Yes.' And it says, 'It will take 15 minutes. Come back. Do not close the browser.'"

"You can mass delete, video change titles, change descriptions, everything."

"So I'm trying to track the most of the most, but it's really just do what works. It's like,"

"Yeah, find the thing."

"Simple is just better every time."

"Yeah."

"Because as you get bigger, you don't even have that. Like, dude,"

"Yes, keep it simple. But, uh, for everybody who does do YouTube, um, this probably helpful, but one is, uh, pinned comments with the CTA. Like, should you just do that in every video? Sounds obvious, but people don't do it. Uh, you have your description. Make sure that the description, the first basically two lines above the fold have your CTA and the link, and you like clearly have the offer, whatever, at least who the offer is for. Um, inside the videos, you obviously do your integrations. Um, I recommend like, we do custom integrations for every video. So, instead of being like, 'Okay, I'm just going to place the same ad for my thing.' It's just lazy. Like, if you're doing the video, we have a checklist that at the end of the videos, it's like, 'Okay, uh, we're going to make a school plug, and I think it's going to work well after two in the video.' So, it's like, 'Hey, by the way, if you like this stuff, then like, go check out school. You start for free. schoolgames.com, blah, blah, blah, blah. Great. Back to the video.' Um, and then the fourth is just in your profile on YouTube, you have your, your little profile description, which you can put it there. But that's the, that's like the lowest traffic, um, of the four, but you should for sure have all four of those done always."

"So, I mean, yeah, I was trying to go like all in on YouTube, but it seems to me where it's like, I kind of know YouTube now, so it's like, my next question is probably"

"How many subs do you have?"

"How many what?"

"Subs? Subscribers. Uh oh. So this is another thing you, um, my whole thing is like, you don't need a lot of subscribers."

"Sure. What's your view count? Whatever."

"Uh, average like 2,000, 1,000 views, and I don't even have 2,000 subscribers yet."

"Then dude, you haven't mastered YouTube."

"Okay."

"I'm just like, I'm being real with you, man."

"Imagine if you had 10,000."

"Yeah."

"Yeah."

"So just focus on YouTube. Not even go to X and try and like look at data."

"Don't worry about it. You're doing a thousand views. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. I want to be really clear, like, kudos. But like, dude, get to 10. Get to 100."

"And then when, when you're saying like, 'get to 10,' it's got to be like 10,000. For me, it's like, I'm trying to maximize YouTube because I know the highest quality. All my clients have came from YouTube."

"Well, we know that cuz the only place you advertise."

"Yeah."

"100% attribution."

"Yeah. But I feel like that's the best thing to do because it's"

"So, why are we not doing more of that?"

"I am. But you just said you weren't. You're like, 'I just mastered YouTube.'"

"Changing your answers up."

"So, why would you do X if you know that YouTube is the best and all of your customers come from there?"

"I guess to, I guess to, um, have more content out there cuz she was talking about"

"That with YouTube, you already know YouTube."

"But then I can't post like 30 videos in one day. Just make your one YouTube video better, dude. It's all about like, YouTube is a quality platform."

"Like Jimmy posts what? One every two weeks."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Right."

"He doesn't. Well, now he's doing Reels, but he's mastered YouTube."

"I don't know. You might have, you might have beat him at the mastery though, cuz you've mastered YouTube, too. So I don't know. You guys are neck and neck there."

"I'm just trying to create a lot of touch points so then they all link up to YouTube, basically."

"Dude, just make your YouTube videos better. Should go to VidSummit. Meet Daryl. Using Mr. Beast. Really good."

"At what point do you actually switch from like the, the whatever you're doing that actually works to add in the second avenue like what Hayden said about, 'Let me switch from YouTube because I mastered it to like X just to add the touch points in.'"

"It's a really, like, really tough question. I mean, I think for the most part, I always want to do more of what works. It's really hard for"

"When you just max it, right? Like you've gone as hard as you can and you you swear that the extra effort going into that one thing"

"Would probably be better spent doing it on something else because you've taken it so far, you're only getting marginal"

"It's an incremental return question. Return on incremental effort."

"True."

"So with my personal brand for the last four years, it's all been to sell. Like, this all been to sell first video. Yeah. The first video I ever made was like with the intention to sell."

"Buy my [ __ ]."

"Yeah."

"And yeah. Now it's like, all right, I've grown"

"Decent size following, but I feel like over the last year, like milked a lot out of it,"

"And I haven't grown a lot recently. Okay."

"So, we were planning on not selling for a while. What do you think of that?"

"I think it's a ratio more than sell, not sell."

"Okay."

"So, it's just like, you just always want to give more to the audience. I also, I'm in favor. So, I think my long-term strategy in terms of how I've thought about content is basically having a soft enough CTA in every piece of content that it doesn't affect growth, but I still get those, those clicks that happen every time. And that way then I don't have to think about it because then I can just do the same thing over and over again rather than be like having these calendars and whatnot that I have to do. And then if you want to do like one big launch, um, I think annual is, uh, the cadence, and I just copied that from Steve Jobs, and that seemed to work pretty well for Apple. So once a year, you want to do some big kapow, and you want to, you know, like make some stronger CTAs. I will say that we, what we do during the launch period, um, is that you actually have to stack on top. And so like, if you normally like give, give, or whatever, you don't stop giving. You just do the same amount of giving, and then you also make content that does ask. Because if you just swap all your content from give to asks, then it's like everyone's like, 'Ah, [ __ ], I don't feel like dealing with this,' but they'll keep listening because you're still giving, and then you'll, you'll net more overall exposure to your CTAs."

"Makes sense."

"Yeah. I would just think about it like it's the give to ask ratio. It's like, make sure that still, you know, 90% of the video is giving, 10% is, you know, soft ask. It works with the same thing with emails, right? Like you can have a CTA in every single email as long as the email is good."

"Why do you think hipster stuck, bro?"

"We pushed really hard for a few months where it was like, 'Come to my free class. Come to my free class.'"

"75 webinars."

"Yeah."

"No, over the course of that time."

"Six months of webinars every week."

"Five webinars a week for six months."

"No, no, no. It was like, it was like a year now total. But we started running September last year. I think"

"When you were growing the most, what were you doing?"

"Um, I think it was more of a hack that when he was growing the most."

"It was like ManyChat and"

"Yeah, it was bad. No, I mean, growing your following."

"Yeah, I was like, I guess we're giving away lead magnets to ManyChat."

"Yeah, it's not working as much anymore. And I also look back and I'm like, I did short-form for four years, and it feels like I have nothing out of. Like, I, like every day would wake up and make videos just for short-form. But it's like, okay, what have I gained from that? Whereas the few YouTube videos that I've done, it's like, I look back and I'm like, 'Oh, this video is still getting like 100, 100 views a day.' It's like, 'Okay, I bet you gained something from this.' And so that's why I'm trying to put my focus in YouTube. And I was thinking like, it might be smart to just not sell so I can grow fast and then do like a launch every six months or something like that."

"You can give stuff away in your YouTube videos, and that'll never be perceived as a, as a right hook. Just FYI. So, if you have those lead magnets, you can make your long-form videos and be like, 'By the way, I have a whole lead magnet around this thing.' Or you wouldn't say lead magnet, but I have a whole thing around this. Um, and I'll give it to you. Just pop in your email. I'll send it to you. Pretty easy. That's like, that's not going to affect your growth, and you can still make money."

"One thing you said that I thought was interesting when you're talking about gym launch, when you're talking about gym launch."

"Yeah. Lifetime. Yeah. 100K one time."

"That's that. Hey, if somebody's willing to pay that, let me know. Anyways, um, but you said with gym launch, there was an issue with your ads, and you said that the, the issue came from you switching the ad from talking about gym stuff to talking about more generalized business stuff."

"That was my content."

"Oh, your content. Okay. Well, um, I saw like something similar with not only like our YouTube videos, but also, um, other creators we know that are in like the same field, and I've seen two different types of videos. For example, one will be appealing to all business models. For example, 'The easiest way to make X amount of money at the age of 20,' versus 'The easiest way to grow on YouTube,' um, and like giving them something more specific."

"It's this, it's this just in content."

"Yeah. And I, it, it is. And that I was going to refer to that is like, what, what directly to content? Is there any advice you have? Because what I noticed is that the AVD, the average view duration, when you have the more broad audience is a lot lower, but you get more views because you have a higher CTR. But when you are more specific, you get less views with lower CTR, but your AVD is much higher. And I was wondering if you've dealt with something like that and what you think."

"Yeah, we make content for the avatar we want to attract. Okay. It's like when you did cooking, right? That was your"

"That was my like super wide"

"Yeah."

"thing. And like"

"So we, we did that for a quarter, and then we figured out that that made us less money, and so then we switched to making only back to business was our whole theme, and we've been sticking with that since. And"

"How did you start Mr."

"Sorry."

"How did you start?"

"Doing what?"

"Like with content?"

"Yeah. Content."

"Content. I started doing podcasts in July of 2017."

"And so what made you"

"What was your inspiration to be such an influential figure besides monetary gains?"

"It was exclusively monetary gains."

"Man, I was expecting a better answer. That's usually the answer."

"No, I mean, the, the, the fame has mostly cons. He's a business influencer, remember?"

"Yeah."

"I'm not, I'm not too familiar. I didn't"

"No, you're good, man. You're good."

"I knew like the second month I started school."

"No, it was, uh, I, the, I had like, I had like six things that happened within six months, and I was like, and I, because if you, if you listen to my podcast, I think my third podcast or fourth podcast is 'Stop Branding.' So like, I have everything documented from like, how my perspective has changed from 2017 until now. I had also lost everything 90 days before I made that first podcast. So if you want to hear like zero to here, it's all documented, the whole thing. Um, but what had happened was the first thing that like put a [ __ ] in my armor of like, 'content is [ __ ]' uh, was Kylie Jenner got on the cover of Forbes, and she was 19 years old, and she was a billionaire. And I was 27, and I was taking home, you know, million and a half a month in income personally, and I thought I was hot [ __ ]. And here comes a girl who's eight years younger than me, and she's a billionaire, and she's a chick. And I was like, 'What the [ __ ]?' And so I have a belief that if someone makes more money than you, that they're better at business in some way. And so you can learn from them. And so I was like, 'All right, what am I going to learn from K?' It actually like ruined my week. I was like, 'Oh my god.' Like, and so I was like, 'She has a brand like that.' Like she has, I didn't even know the word brand. I was like, 'She has a following.' I knew that, but I was like, 'Ah, I don't want to have that life.' And then, uh, Huda Beauty, uh, sold a portion of her business for 600 million. And she was just like some Instagram chick selling makeup, and I was like, 'What the [ __ ]?' Another chick, you know. Um, at least she was older than I was. Uh, okay. And then, uh, and then Conor McGregor did Proper 12, and then he sold also for 600. And then The Rock had Tamana, and they were at the time, I think was like one or two billion, um, that it got valued at. And I saw all of those things, and I was like, 'Still don't know if I want to do it.' Then I heard this podcast, like I was very, very, has, I liked being rich and anonymous, like it was chill. Um, then I heard this podcast of this guy, um, Nomad Capitalist, if you've ever heard of him. Uh, so he's got a channel on YouTube, and he, and he was like, 'Yeah, I get 3,000 applications a month for my YouTube channel.' And I was like, '3 thou?' And I, I saw his application. It had like 22 questions, and it was like, not like name, phone number, address, and like goal. It was like, 'Put your, you know, attach your tax returns.' It was like, it was a very, you know, he was getting 3,000 of those a month. I was like, 'Holy [ __ ], he's getting 100 applications a day.' I was like, 'If I had 100 applications a day that were warm inbound, that were high quality like that.' I was like, 'I would be making so much money.' Still, I didn't want to do it. And then I went to a friend of mine's house who is famous, and I was like, and he had just started dinner by saying, he's like, 'Yeah, we got like another death threat this week for my kids.' He was like, 'That was sweet.' And I was like, 'Nice. Sorry about that.' I was like, 'Why do you do this?' And, um, and he said, 'If, if that's the price I have to pay to make the impact I want to have, I would pay that price seven days a week and twice on Sunday.' And so he basically was just calling me a [ __ ] for not doing it. And so that was, that was the last conversation I had. Um, and then I was like, 'Fine.' And so that's when I, I got a vendor who did YouTube, and he just basically got me on a cadence of making three videos a week, which I was already doing podcasts. So it was basically, I just kept doing, that's like the, like everyone's like, 'Hey, all of his videos were in the closet.' It's because that's when I, that's where I did my podcasts. So I just, I was in the closet, and then we just got the video too, and then we just started posting them. And so that was, I think September of '19, uh, when I started doing that, and that's what, that's what got it all started."

"Yeah. September '19. I was peaking then too."

"H"

"September 2019, I was peaking into"

"Peaking into"

"I was peaking. My best follower count was really high at that point."

"Your follower count?"

"Yeah."

"Was you were peaking five years ago?"

"Well, you know, we have an old man. 2019 was like crazy, and I'm like, I wonder if I'm bigger now in 2018."

"I think you are."

"I'd figure out what you were doing in 2019 and try to do that again."

"Well, it's cuz he was like playing"

"Don't tell him."

"He was a gamer guy."

"Very different. Very different audience."

"Gaming stuff."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Got it. Yeah."

"What's wrong with that?"

"Yeah."

"Well, because I have changed my personality. I was talking to you about this."

"Yeah."

"Remember?"

"Yeah."

"I was like, the ultimate would because Eddie's good at playing Counter-Strike. I was like, 'Dude, you should just play Counter-Strike and talk about business at the same time.'"

"Do you know how many dudes play Counter-Strike?"

"A lot."

"A shitload. And do you know how many of them would love to make enough money so they could just play Counter-Strike all day?"

"Well, they're just, I think people who like spend too much time delving in video games are just lazy. So I wouldn't want to sell it to them."

"No, but that's the advantage"

"Because they're really good and they don't, they don't pay attention to any business people because they're not like them, but you can be like them and then bring in the business side."

"So, so has Eddie started doing that?"

"A bit of Counter-Striking. It's been a minute."

"Oh, so you don't play still?"

"What game do you play?"

"Chess."

"Are you, do you still play?"

"I play chess. I used to play, uh, Fortnite."

"What do you play actively now?"

"Chess."

"You good?"

"Depends who's asking."

"You get"

"What's your score?"

"Uh, D. You have to play me and find out."

"Well, I swear this, this makes things more interesting if you mix business and chess."

"That's kind of cool."

"You're like, 'This is my pawn,' or 'my lead magnet.' Like, 'Checkmate, closed deal.' It sounds like a pipsky to me. Anyway, uh, but anyways,"

"Food is here."

"That could be interesting though."

"Yeah. So, we'll do, uh, we can do a, what time is it?"

"12."

"12. All right. Why don't we just, why don't we just grab food, uh, and then we'll just basically hang for an hour, and then we'll, uh, we'll kick it back off. Cool."

"Cool. So, uh, I had three questions that came up at lunch that I figured would be, I, I did one of those like, 'I don't want to answer this fully right now because it'll help everybody else too.' So, um, one was the, uh, we can talk more about low ticket to high ticket stuff. Uh, we could talk about big head long tail because you're going to talk, you're going to kick us off. Um, and then, uh, you want to talk about exitable, how to make a community exitable and whatnot, and I'll, I'll walk through that. All right. So you, I promised, I promised you that you would start. So you were starting."

"Okay. So"

"She hasn't asked a question yet, so I'm, I'm poking."

"So my main business is that I create just different journals and sell it on Amazon."

"So you make journals and you sell them on Amazon. Okay."

"And because I'd been an Amazon consultant, and I used to work for Amazon, I already had a community that wanted to learn how to sell on Amazon. And as they figured out that I was creating stationary, I'm very passionate about stationary. Cool."

"I've always been since I was a little girl."

"That's awesome."

"And I then had had demand from my community to learn how to do this. So then I created a membership. No, first a course."

"Mhm."

"And taught them how I do this and how they can do too with the vision of helping people that have transformations that they want to give people through a printed product instead of writing a book, a product that can help people implement, like a guard jun, all sorts of different topics."

"Right."

"And I hook them up with my manufacturers. I take them to China."

"Um, we do the whole thing together. My problem is, I don't really do content. I don't do ads."

"Mhm."

"I've done, how do people know about ads?"

"I've done some ads. Okay."

"And I've had a Facebook group. It's just, it's a compounding over the years. I did some, um, like an email list of 15,000."

"How do people get on the email list?"

"They got on the email list through the Facebook group originally."

"Okay. So, your Facebook group. So you were making content just within a group, and then that's what drew people in. So you were making content."

"I was making content"

"Within a group. So not publicly outside. Um, so I, and I got people in through like live launches as well on my email list. So we found some of them."

"And that performed really well too. I've changed my model from a course to a membership on School, and I noticed that's actually not the right thing to do because I'm giving everything away."

"Mhm."

"Um, and I'm risking the relationship with my manufacturers. That's very important."

"Mhm."

"Um, so I'm like, 'Okay, I have to like qualify people better.' And also to create this type of business, you need some money. So, I was attracting people that were hoping to make money quickly with this. Like, that's not what this is because it takes like six months at least until you can even start selling, and you need inventory. If"

"Only there were a membership type that had like a longer period."

"Yeah, I could do yearly. Yeah. Now, with the annual"

"Uhhuh."

"Okay. And I think that's a good idea to add that. But I still feel like it would be good to to have like the both, and then if they want the implementation, the call is with me, the call with the manufacturers, and then I have"

"Most of the members in my community they have like member calls, so they have each other and implementation accountability. Um, so selling that separately, so people can learn, they can get the contacts of the manufacturers, but if they want to join the calls, they can join the membership."

"I think the model that we were talking about earlier where you actually have the annual be higher than what monthly times 12 is, and then lock all of those things that you have that are specific that you know that the higher tier person would need, like manufacturer relationships, all that stuff. I think that allows you to get kind of the best of both worlds, and then they'll, they'll all be in the same pool, and so those people will see what the, the high, you know, the annual people are getting, and it'll create a natural ascension just within the community."

"Now, I already have people in there that bought"

"Uh"

"the offer was there. So I, I don't want to take some, something away from them."

"How is it structured right now? So if, can something get locked that was once open?"

"Yeah. And the people who were there originally, it will, it be locked for them or not locked for them?"

"Whatever you want."

"H"

"Either or, whatever you choose."

"Okay."

"So, we could manually unlock them if they were members that came before."

"Cuz right now I'm closed. Like I'm not letting anyone in because I have no"

"You wanted to figure it out. Yeah. So I think, I think that if from a tech standpoint, that's all capable within the platform. So let your old people continue to have it, and then from here on out, the new people, so they'll be stoked cuz they're going to find out that this thing would have been. What are you charging for the community?"

"$11."

"Yeah, I think you could probably get away, not get away with, but like, I think I think for sure, what you're doing, like $5,000 a year for sure."

"You could do for sure. I mean, you're helping people create an Amazon revenue stream, and once they set it up, because I'm sure this is what you have, like, it kind of just like sends you money every month."

"Yeah. And it's like, do automatic."

"No, I get it. I have, I have a paper product on Amazon as well. Uh"

"Um, no, it's cool. No, it's super cool. Uh, but yeah, I think you, you can keep your 129, lock all the stuff that is the stuff that you're afraid of giving away that you only want the really serious people to have. Put it behind the, the 5K. Um, and then you have a really nice AB, uh, offer for them."

"So then if I then say, 'Okay, I'm going to start ads"

"And running them directly to the number."

"Yeah, 5K is not going to, it's unlikely that it will convert straight on the page. Um, that's where having more of the onboarding call setup and having somebody who can take that call and just say, 'Hey, I'm here to figure out which one works better for you.' Uh, because I think if people bought the 129 on the way in, they'll be really qualified to take upsells for, uh, 5,000."

"So then there would be"

"And the only, I'll tell you what the obstacle they're going to bring up is on the call. The number one thing they're going to say is, 'Well, I'm just going to consume the stuff that's in the community right now.' And so what you need to do is basically, um, give them an inevitable close. So works like this. Just say, 'Well, totally understand, and you absolutely should go consume all that stuff, but either you're going to consume it and it's going to work, and then you're going to hit the next constraint, in which case you're going to want this next thing, or you're going to do it and it's not going to work for you, in which case you're going to need the help.' So, either way, you're going to end up going here."

"Okay. So, then I'm running ads"

"For all my content, dudes. If you have people who are like, 'Ah, maybe I'll watch more content.' That's the close for that, by the way. So I'm running ads to the membership, and then we make sure that we have a call set"

"Onboarding call. Yep."

"And then there could be an upsell, but then the offer of the membership then doesn't, it's not anymore. So there could be still implementation costs, but then they could not have their manufacturer."

"Sure. Take all that stuff away. The thing that you have to remember is that the person who's coming in doesn't know what they don't know. And so by you saying like, 'Oh, you're going to need manufacturing.' Like, you're telling them about the problems that they don't know exist yet. And so by you removing a solution to a problem that they don't know exists yet, isn't going to affect conversion. It's only when they come in. Do you get what I'm saying?"

"Yeah. I'm getting it."

"Yeah. And so what I would do is have one thing that they can unlock by attending the onboarding call."

"So just have one thing that you peel off, and you can promise that on the way in because that's just a mandatory part of joining the community. You just take an onboarding call, and we unlock all the stuff. So basically, when they get in, nothing's, everything's locked, and then you get on the onboarding call, you unlock one or two things, whatever you feel like, and then everything else that's the upsell."

"So the manufacturer details actually could be the upsell because I got such good pricing."

"Yeah."

"That"

"That'll save you the $5,000 a year on its own."

"This, by the way, is one of my favorite businesses in the [ __ ] world when it comes to memberships. So, uh, there was a business that we, we got really like, we made an offer on the business, and then a private equity firm outbid us on it. But, uh, it was this dental association, and so he had 700 dentists. I think it was, no, maybe more. Anyways, he had whatever, whatever it was. And they were paying, I think $10,000 a year to be in the dental association. And through the dental association, they basically made it into a co-op where they would all bid together for toothbrushes and toothpaste and all the crap that, you know, dentists have. And so for them, on average, they were saving $30,000 a year per location that they, like, per dental office by being in the association. And so the stick on the thing was unbelievable because there was, there was no logical reason why someone would ever cancel a $10,000 thing that saves you 30 per location. And so you're in the exact same bucket. And so, same thing here is like, you're entering this community because you want to make this work, right? Right. Well, as soon as you make this work, then you're going to immediately want to save the money. So, you might as well save it now"

"And get all the extra stuff."

"Yeah."

"That's a very compelling close."

"And have a good manufacturer, which is very cool, too. That is that, like, that the, the pricing alone that you get on the manufacturing, if you make that, like, the assumption that like you can go on your own and it's going to cost you $20,000 or more for sure per year, or you can do mine for five, and it'll save you at least five, and you just get all this extra stuff for like, you just, you get what I'm saying here."

"Everything else is just gravy at that point."

"So I think my issue has been that I've not targeted the right person."

"Make the deal with the manufacturer that they have to be in good standing with you because if you've been pushing a lot of traffic to them, then I would say like my only ask is that they have to be enrolled with me in order to get the rates that we all collect, the living negotiated, which they should be okay with because then it's like, and if they're not, charge them full boat that way because otherwise it's like, 'I already have the contact. I don't need her anymore.' That way you can keep the stick."

"Yeah."

"Or just need volume to fight the people that want to can afford it."

"Yeah. I think I need to just focus on people that have something to share, like coaches or work."

"Um, and already have made money to be able to do this."

"And you just say that in the ads."

"Yeah."

"Because I've focused on women that are enthusiastic about journals and planners, and they don't always"

"Yeah."

"Have the money."

"I can imagine that. But they have enough money to pay $129 a month or, or whatever the monthly is, you know. They do, and they figure it out. They still create the inventory, and it's beautiful because it's like a legacy. People, often they're older women also."

"But it's not the ideal client, really."

"Sure. I mean, you only need one out of 10 to be the ideal client."

"Yeah. Okay."

"Right. You only need to upsell 10%, 20%, you're good to go."

"Okay. Yeah. So my goal is only to upsell"

"Right."

"a few of them."

"Did they do the math? So, say $5,000 is what, uh, the annual is. If 10% of people take the $5,000 sale, then it means your first transaction, you're going to have the $129 because they're going to buy that. And then you have $500. 5,000 divided by 10, you have $500 extra per sale. So, you're going to be at $629 per person on average who comes in the community. As long as you can acquire customers for less than that, which you probably can, uh, you'll probably be good to go because your CPA, especially if Evelyn's here, is probably $5. But no, but it'll, it'll probably be somewhere in the, you know, 80 to 100 range, which for you, you're just breaking even on the 129, and you're just getting free qualified sales calls who paid you $100."

"Okay."

"Don't make sense."

"Awesome. All right. So, exitable, sellable thing. So, I wanted to just touch on this because I, I feel like every, every one of these, somebody asks that question. And so, I just wanted to set the record straight. That sounds a bit heavy. Not, um, it's not like, 'How do I make a community sellable?' It's just that there are businesses that have the nature of the revenue makes the business more valuable. And so, for example, even software is not more valuable because it's software. It's because software has charact, the revenue characteristics are such that they generally have sign, really high gross margins at scale. Uh, tends to be very sticky. So it's recurring. Uh, yearly revenue retention is very high. There's some viral components that that get cost to acquire customer to be low. And so it's the actual business metrics that make the, the business valuable. And so, for example, there's tons of internet marketers who have started software companies that aren't worth [ __ ] and spend hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of dollars on the software because they think software makes their business valuable when revenue retention and high gross margins and net margins and expansion is what makes a business valuable. And so it's not like, 'How do I make my School business sellable?' It's just, 'How do you make any business sellable?' Which is, you want it to be recurring. You want to have high margins, which with digital products and things like that, like School already has the high margins thing. It's high cash flow. There's, there's lots of pluses already that are there. The biggest issue for most communities will be retention, especially with education because once people learn something, then they have learned it, and so then they don't need to pay for it again. The advantage that you have is that if you can have some sort of cost savings that's associated with it, then that's something that they're going to want to have cost savings this year, and they're going to want to have cost savings next year. And so from the, uh, retention piece, this is why annual was such a big deal, especially for those of you who have longer implementations that it takes for somebody to see a result. And that's honestly a lot of education businesses. Like doing annual automatically will cut your churn more than in half. So ProfitWell, I say this almost every time, but ProfitWell, uh, came out with a study. They had 14, now they, they had 14,000 subscriptions. They surveyed 512 in the, in the, in the survey, and by looking at churn agnostic of industry, so it didn't matter whether it was ButcherBox or whatever, uh, and tons of soft, and you know, apps, whatever, uh, monthly churn on average was 10.7%. Monthly, quarterly billing, which we don't offer, to be clear, uh, was 5%. And annual, uh, was 2%. 2 point something percent. Extrapolated back out because obviously it's like, how do you have monthly churn on annual? It's like, you just break it back out down into what it would have been annually, uh, monthly, excuse me. And so it has a, it's a massive lever on keeping customers longer."

"Yeah. And I think the biggest question behind it is, I, I now understand that this is the way to go when you want to exit it, but I noticed like the whole trend with like, we hear like 10 creators with three group operators next to it. So how do you take it to the next level with the business as taking the community as a business because you're sharing just profits, and that's just a money grab. Like the community is just a, a money grab system for everyone. Like the, the global operators are taking the money, the creator are taking the money, but I think if you would dedicate yourself to building a community in a sustainable business with 80% profit margin, like for example, Evelyn, that's way more sellable than just like, 'Oh yeah, I made 50k a month, but 20k is for the growth operator, and 20k for the other, and I get 10k.' I don't think that's, you would all sell it together."

"Yeah. Yeah. So that means like, you're locked in in the business."

"Yeah. You'd be, I mean, fundamentally, you're functioning like partners. So you act like partners. If I'm a 20% owner, business and the business sells, I get 20% of the proceeds."

"Yeah. Yeah. And for me, this is more the question is, when you started like the companies, and you get your partners in, or did, when do you transition from like, 'Okay, let's first try to make it profitable and share the profits,' but now, 'Hey, this is becoming bigger. Now we're getting like equity.'"

"We still take profits always. Like we're owners, and then we sell our ownership, where we take profits to let someone else take profits in exchange for more money. Yeah, I think the, the profit share thing is what's like messing you up. Like if I, so let's like, we have, we have a profit share at acquisition.com for the portfolio team because they contribute to making all the companies make more money. And so that percentage gets distributed between, uh, you know, the portfolio team and some of the, some of the managers underneath that that directly impact that. And so if we were to sell acquisition.com sometime in the future, I have no intentions of doing that. But if we were to do that, then those managers would continue to get their profit share percentage, and then the owner would assume my, my complete ownership of the thing. And knowing that 90% you know, of the margin, you know, in this hypothetical example, would go to me."

"And how do you separate, like, you know, the creator like from the actual business when you want to resell it? Because, you know, it's like a YouTube channel."

"Like the creator can't resell. So one is, okay, so there's a couple things here. So one is not all deals are majority exits. So the examples I gave with Huda Beauty, Kylie, um, Connor, all of those are deals where they sold a minority stake. So they got a big cash, this got a big cash out, big payday, but then they still continue to own the business, which is a nice thing. It derisks you. You get some cash. You know that you're covered. In some ways, you can be more aggressive with the business because you're not worried about losing it. That's why there are plenty of firms that specialize in that specific type of transaction. And so one is, you don't have to do a majority exit in order to have a quote liquidity event. The second piece of it, um, is that there's an idea I think in entrepreneurs that like, 'Someday I will make enough money and be done,' and it never happens. It never happens because all you do, if you actually do a majority sale, which is what we did, obviously, I started acquisition.com the next day. Like, what are you going to do?"

"Yeah. Muffin."

"Right? Yeah. You'll get bored very quickly. There's like a gazillion entrepreneurs have told the exact same story. Like, 'I sat on the beach for a week and then I was like, 'What the [ __ ] This is boring. I feel like a piece of shit.' And then they started, they started their next thing, right? Some people take a year, some people take two years, but most people come back pretty quickly back to the game unless they're, you know, much older, in which case, whatever. So Taylor Swift isn't looking for another blonde girl to take over singing for her. So I mean, this is where like, if you, if you build the business because you think what you do is really cool, and you think it really helps a lot of people, then it's a forever game. And"

So again, it does reverse engineer back from the goal. It's like, I want to have a liquidity event. Why? Because I want more money. Well, can we just make more money? You, you know what I'm saying? Like there's, there's tree branches to it.

Um, but fundamentally from a sellability perspective, if you wanted to sell a community long-term, or rather a face business, you need to basically go from one hero to the Avengers. And then over time, it's just, I'm just one of multiple faces. And then, like, for example, if I wanted to sell acquisition.com, I'll take all my, my, uh, my leaders and then we'd probably create many teams for them. We'd start pumping out content for them. They would start generating leads for the business. And then that would, you know, over time, over time, be big enough that it would eliminate some of the keyman risk.

But to be clear, Elon is keyman risk for Starlink, or for, uh, SpaceX, for, uh, for X, for Tesla. Like, you know, Steve Jobs was keyman for Apple. Like, a lot of people just build big companies, and it's okay if you're the frontman. I mean, I'm keyman risk for acquisition.com. I'm not upset about it.

No, I'm not upset about it. And not for the content creation. I think it's indeed, uh, it's, I, I just discovered like, this thing is way bigger than I ever thought about it, just because it's getting so big. And then I'm like, oh, that will be like, first of all, for when I'm getting older, I would love to do an exit and maybe just get into another business. So then I was like, oh, which kind of KPI should I take a look at and make sure that the business is sellable when the time comes?

Maybe. Big picture, you want it to be growing. You want it to be profitable. You want to have a story of increased profitability, increased growth in the future. Uh, it's just, I mean, there's, there's, and you want the revenue that you have already gotten to this point to be revenue that the person who's buying it thinks will be there for a long time. You want the thing to make more money over time and it to be very certain.

Basically, something you don't want to sell.

Yeah. If you make it so that you don't want to sell it, everyone will want to buy it.

No, that's the key. Like, like that is 100% the way it works. Like I tell this analogy when we have our workshops, which is, if you've ever fixed a, anyone here, you guys are young. Um, anyone here bought and sold a house that you lived in? When I say this is the workshops, like the whole room. So, um, but imagine you had done that. All right, so this is what happens. You buy a house, you live in it for a while. Then when you go to sell it, you're like, "Oh man, resale value." You're like, "You know what? I'm going to fix the back porch. You know, it has been squeaky. I'm going to replace the window here. I'm going to repaint the side. I'm going to power wash the the front." You, you, you fix the crack in the in the in the sidewalk and the pavement, whatever. And then at the end of fixing everything, you're like, "Huh, you know, I kind of like this house. It's not so bad." And so, it's kind of the same thing with the business. It's like, you think you want to sell it, but it's not really sellable. And then you fix everything. And when you make it sellable because it's valuable to someone else, it's just as or more valuable to you.

Yeah. It's, it's funny because that's is really personal. I just bought a house in Portugal and we have the same. We fixed the house and you're like, I'm not going to sell this thing. I'm going to stay in there.

That's exactly right. So most people are in pain, and because they're in pain, no one wants to buy that business. And when you fix the pain, you don't want to sell it. And so the last six months of the deal with Gym Launch, I was very, very hesitant to sell to begin with because I'd gotten to the thing that had just sent me a lot of money every month and I was completely, completely removed from the business.

And I'll tell you one rule of thumb before we move on, which is just that your business will always be more valuable to you than to anyone else.

Because you are the one who made it.

It's just a detriment. Well, not even emotionally. Just like you're better at running the business because you're the one who founded it. You know all the pieces. You know how it started. And so, like a business that, I'll give you the, the easy hypothetical extreme. Most of the businesses here are not sellable for like an institutional investor, but they are absolutely valuable to every person here because it's how you eat. It's how you feed yourself. It's how you buy all the stuff that you have. So just because it's not valuable to someone else doesn't mean it's not valuable to you. The process of turning a, uh, a business that's valuable to you and no one else into a business that's valuable to anyone is the process of making it into an asset for anyone, which is basically checking all these boxes so that someone else essentially gets an annuity. They just get this cash that they trade more cash today for, ideally for more cash in the future. Yeah. Hopefully that solved that one forever. I'll answer this one next week, too.

No, you're good. All right. So, high ticket stuff. So, that was the other course we had.

Yeah.

So, real quick before that, um, regarding the time unlock thing for like the courses, you know, kind of like you said, like, setting up like that roadmap of like, this when you get this, and this one, you get this. I know I, someone that I know, they actually made a, I guess, a course that's time unlocked. And apparently everyone with the community already in that community, they also have to wait the 30 days. So, like, with that, how's that, you know?

That's detective. I have no idea.

I don't know what you're saying.

So, like, so like, if you like want to change like what you're doing now, let's say I have a, a course within, you know, the community right now and everyone's getting it essentially for free. They didn't have to wait the 30 days. But then I'm like, okay, from this moment on, anyone comes in, uh, sorry, from this point, I want them to wait 30 days. Um, his problem was like when he did that, everyone else already in the community got that same course that it would you usually had it for free, you know, unlocked. As I'm now, I'm now locked. So they.

Well, that would only be true if they hadn't all been in there for 30 days.

You know, I feel like I've done that before where I switched it and it didn't affect the previous members who had already been in the community for X amount of time.

Yeah, it applies. The clock starts when the person joins the community.

So someone had been in there for 10 days and you set it to 30-day unlock, they wouldn't have access to it. But if someone had been in there for 30, they would.

Okay. I don't. That's the problem that he had.

So he probably had a lot of new people in his community. That was the issue.

You can just invite him to that classroom.

You can also grant access to it even if it is time unlocked. Yeah.

Anyways.

Yeah.

Back to the low ticket to the high ticket.

Um, so right now we have a low ticket and, uh, it does pretty well. I mean, we did like 50k just doing low ticket organic and we're thinking about doing the high ticket. I mean, our annual right now is like 3.97, uh, which we just started. But I guess my question is like, should I, like, first, should I even transfer to the high ticket, or should I just do more of the low ticket if we were able to get it to like 100k just doing low ticket? We haven't done like ads.

Let's do more of what's working first.

Yeah. Okay.

Would you consider like if 397 still like low ticket?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

What's the monthly?

Monthly is 50.

What's that discount for annual?

Four months off.

So that's like 34%.

Yeah. Buy eight, get four. Yeah. I mean, max it out.

Okay.

Yeah. You can always like, I think there fundamentally with annual, there's two strategies. Either you, they do what you're doing right now, which is like, I just want to get as many people into this. Everybody gets the same delivery. These guys just get to get it earlier and sooner because they chose to pay annual. Very simple model. The alternative is you create like that slightly two-tier like we were talking about where this one isn't 12 months. It might be, you know, three times the price or whatever of this, but because it comes with other unlocks that only the annuals get.

I do think.

What's your conversion rate?

Uh, it was, it just lowered down cuz like we kind of like our conver, our traffic, we like trying to, we're trying to switch. We try to do the free community and then the traffic with that like completely killed our traffic. So, we kind of switched it back. Um, but originally we're just doing a strap organic of the link and bio essentially and it was like about 2% conversion rate. It was doing pretty well. Um, and then it lower and then we tried to do the free community which I created and I just re.

Why did it lower?

What did it lower?

Why did it go down? You said it was 2% and then it went down.

Yes, it went down because we like essentially stopped doing that method and sending the traffic to a, because like we, we learned that like, I mean, you said this, apparently, right? With a free community, conversion rates go higher, right?

To free.

Yeah.

Yeah. But.

Yeah, that's definitely different.

So 18. Yeah, you'll get 18% of people opt in on average. Obviously depends on the on the group. So if you get 100 clicks, 18 people join the group. Versus paid, you get 100 clicks, you get 2% of people. So you get two people to join the group. So where free nets you more money is if your conversion of the 18% nets you more than basically if you sell more than two out of 18 people who enter your free community into your more expensive thing, it's a net positive using the stats that you have.

Your free groups are for people that can't get people to buy straight on the landing page. Got it.

And so like if you're starting out, doing free and then having a paid community that you manually sell people into over the phone is the most efficient way to sell. Efficient being like you convert the highest percentage of clicks. Now, if you send 10,000 clicks, it's probably will make like, unless you have a 50 person sales team, it'll make more sense for you to just send them to.

I did a model on it, by the way, and it gets six times the earnings per click.

Which.

If you do the free group thing. So, it all depends on how much traffic you can generate.

Yeah.

Because if you can only generate a tiny amount of traffic, you need the highest.

Yield per click possible.

You want to soak every. You want to squeeze every dropout. But if you can generate a lot of traffic, then you can just have a lower conversion and still make more, right?

Yeah.

Basically, you're focus, basically if you have a little bit of traffic, traffic is the constraint. And so then you want to convert as much as you can. If you have a shitload of traffic, then conversion is longer the constraint. Delivery is going to be the constraint. So I guess we moved to the free community because we wanted to like see if we could like get more traffic because it was like kind of like 2% and it was like kind of slowing down after the launch of course as well. So we're like, maybe with the free community, it's a lot easier to convert to a free community.

Sure.

Uh, we can like warm up more leads and actually create a top of funnel, uh, that could and essentially then, you know, create us more leads to the paid one.

How did you try to convert the free to the paid?

From free? I, I just revamped it, but originally we're doing, uh, well, I tried to do some outbound outreaches which it wasn't, you know, working very well. Not wasn't getting a lot of responses. And then, um, I was trying to do like a free class within each week, which not a lot of people were showing up. So.

You guys are the masters of this. You want to just share what you guys do?

Yeah. Um, it's kind of like what you say too with your five-step VSSL.

Just sounds cooler if you say it.

Yeah. Basically, we just have the free community and it's like, like you have your paid community, but you just take like 10% of it and you just give it away for free, but give like a really juicy bit away for free because if it's not good, people are going to watch and be like, "Oh, the pay stuff's not going to be any good." Then you take them through that. We do calls. That's where.

Walk through the conversion process rather than what's in the group.

Yeah. I mean, somebody joins the group, we basically just highlight post like twice a week, three times a week, say, "Hey, book an onboarding call." So, it's like, when somebody comes in, it's an onboarding call, which is basically a sales call. They come in, we just have a value call where say, "Hey, we'll help you figure out your school community." They jump on the call, we give them a little bit of value, tell them, "Hey, you know what? We've been talking on this call. I think the paid community would actually be really good for you." Then we just get them into the paid community that way. But yeah, we just post in the community. Our initial DM takes them to the calendar page where they can book a call. And then we have like pre-frame questions as well, see if they're qualified. If they're not.

We're going to walk through this visually because I think it'll be helpful.

Yo, they click, they go to the free community, they click join. Once they're in, what happens?

Well, initially they'll probably just start watching a little bit of the classroom.

Do you have a start here thing?

Yeah, we have a start here course.

Okay. And the start here course has what is that? The five fiveday VSSL.

Basically, it just warms them up to school. So yeah, it kind of starts there essentially, but it's basically like download the school app, use our affiliate, and then it shows them how to like introduce themselves to the free. And then they go into the week one, which is the actual master class.

Yeah. And throughout this process, all the pointing the fingers to the calendar kind of happens like in the back end. It happens in the classroom, but also happens in posts that we put pinned.

So you do three posts a week that you tell people.

So yeah, we do like three posts a week. It's kind of like a value post. So Max talks about like a specific topic and then at the end it's like, "By the way, if you think that this would help, book a call." So, there's kind of three ways people hear about the call. It's either three pin posts or a DM or they just hear about it in the, uh, in the week one. I will walk through this from this side. Free, free group. I mean, this is the four-step conversion. So, this is just visualizing it, but pin post, three posts a week. You, you also do a webinar.

And a webinar. Yeah.

There's a webinar too. Uh, and then DMing anybody who's like engages with stuff.

That's what you said last time when we were here. It was like.

And it has not changed. So, we were just like, "Yeah, if we're going to do all of those, let's do that." Yeah. I still, I mean, what we're doing, um, so Gym Launch just came on to school. Um, and, uh, it's working very well. We, uh, have one thing that's basically when they get in for Gym Launch, everything's locked. And so, it's like, "Hey, you might have noticed everything's locked. That's because you need to book your onboarding call so we can unlock the right path for you. Personalization." I had a question about that.

We're professionals, so we do this for a living. Um, and so that's the onboarding call. And then they say, "Hey, you know what? We could do this, but we could do all this stuff for you, too. You should buy our stuff."

With that, technically, there's not really anything to nurture them before they get on the call. Does it still convert? You think it doesn't really matter? The nurturing thing's kind of just a.

They're just driving ads, so that's been working fine. But you absolutely could do just leave the five video VSSL as the as the only thing that's locked or say the only thing that's unlocked, then have everything else locked.

Yeah, basically it's like, yeah, week one is what you get for free, and then you get two, three, four, five, and six, which is what's in the paid. So yeah, depends where they're at.

And I guess for converting through, I guess the paid community to like, you know, the, we want to get more people on the annual of course, uh, from our paid community. Do you recommend just like maybe offering a little bit more or like do like.

Well, I mean, if you're doing automated conversion, which you guys are, because you're pushing it straight to the, uh, about page, then it's, it's the combo of more for less. That's the, the big magic. So, it's, you know, buy eight, get four, which is what you guys are doing. Um, and then you can also add in additional things that only the annual people get.

And should we just pro it like within the community or do you think I guess besides just like permitted through the community? Do you think discovery calls would be good?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay.

Yes. I mean, the point of the onboarding call is because that's the most efficient conversion mechanism. It's the least scalable though.

Yeah.

Yeah. Can you believe it? Some businesses hire more than one person to do it. Isn't that crazy? But yeah, that, I mean, for sure that would make you guys a shitload of money.

So what point like if the, since like, you know, the warning codes are not scalable cuz like if we were to do them.

You said they're not scalable.

Yeah. Right.

Why?

Oh, that's what you said.

Oh, that was a joke. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. All right.

I was like.

Okay. I was like, I thought it was okay.

Yeah. Yeah. At everyone of our companies, as soon as somebody has to take, you know, one person's booked out their calendar, I'm like, "I guess we can't do sales calls anymore. This is not scalable." Like, we just hire a second person to take calls.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, I think you had, so, I mean, to Sam, he's obviously done the model. I haven't looked at it, but I could say anecdotally, free to paid is the most efficient way to monetize as many clicks as possible. Um, it just takes more work. But again, if you're traffic constrained, then doing the more work doesn't matter. You guys aren't traffic constrained. And so, I mean, it's really just a question of how much infrastructure you're comfortable building.

So like let's say if we were doing like the, you know, linking bio straight up, um, and like the conversion rates drop. So you would recommend maybe doing like the free community and doing more work so we can.

I think you just didn't have all the ways to convert from the free community.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. If you're just relying on content being good and then getting them to just reach out to you and say, "Hey, I want to go to paid." That's just never going to happen.

Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. And so you think about it like, you're going to convert, you'd have to, to break even, you'd have to convert, uh, like 11% of your free group ads for it to be the same as you converting 2% of the 100 clicks in straight into paid.

Well, I think our, our problem was, I don't know, maybe it was the content because I mean, I have, I guess I didn't have all the mechanism set up. Um, I actually just changed it like this past two days or whatnot. But, um, because our main thing within the free community was just like the, the free class that you would get in there. We didn't really, like the content that we had, content. We have like the video broken down like five ASLs.

Um, and then we have like a little star guide, like very like dumb down, but that's like related content. We didn't have much like of a content.

Yeah. So you had the, the, you had the just that one and that that told them to book a call, right? That was the only thing that you had.

No, we didn't had it. We just had like register for a class. So like we just had the free class to show up like at a specific date.

Okay. And then on that class, you would sell them.

Yeah. Yep. At the class when they come, then we would like sell them like at the end, like we offer the value, help them, and at the end it's like, "Hey, by the way, we have."

Yeah, so you had one of the four ways of doing it.

Right.

You just need the other three.

Yeah. And one-on-one calls for sure are still going to be the thing.

I feel like I feel like it's going to be like some, some big tangled web.

No, it's not. It's not.

So when I was watching, so I watched the last, uh, school games meeting, the, the season of madness, and, um, Mr. Oven said that that you guys were bringing up free trials soon. And I was wondering what your thoughts and how effective free trials could be in a paid community and what your approach would be because I understand right now school itself has a free trial. But then again, school isn't a community. It's a.

It's totally a community.

Well, well, I guess there's like the, the school games community, but obviously they're two different things.

We literally sell it like a community.

But how would you go with the, with the, uh, free trial approach? Cuz my worry is that if we have a free trial, it could affect maybe, um, if these people don't take the community seriously because it's a free trial, or there's just a ton of potential issues. But at the same time, I feel like it's something that we could implement and use effectively. I just need some help understanding how we could implement it.

So, you guys have, I feel like you have a, you, you need, do you know how to use Excel?

Yes.

Okay. That was in a slight, some people don't like this, which is a genuine question. So if it's just about fundamentally going all the way back, it's EPCs, it's earnings per click. And so if you get 100 clicks and you have a paid group and you convert 2%, then you get two of those clicks over. And let's say that, you know, churn is, let's say it's $100 to keep it simple. So you have $200 there. And let's say churn is 20%. Which is, I think the average right now. So that's $500 per person. All right? So you make $1,000 on a 100 clicks. So that means you're making $10 a click lifetime. If you introduce the free trial, then you might be somewhere at like 5% conversion. And so then it's going to be, you'll have a second conversion point, which is how many of them convert into, uh, the continuity on the back side. And so if you, like, it's really just going to be balancing those things and then seeing, do free trial people after the trial have the same churn as people who buy up front? And if it's the same behavior, then then it's really just going to be the arbitrage of, do I get more front end versus the conversion I have on the back?

Okay. So, it'll really just be testing like per community basis. Okay.

You just literally just run the map.

We also have the emails to follow up, right?

Yeah. There's all, and that's what I think Sam's working on that right now. Smithers fingers. Yes. So.

Thing is, we tried the free community to upsell. We had 53, 5,400 people in there. We did, um, daily posts. We did questionnaires. We like we did everything. We're doing like six calls a day for like 120 days. Dion was doing that.

You mean onboarding calls?

No, like six, like value calls like in the classroom.

A day.

Oh, like a week. Sorry. Six calls a week. Um, my bad. Um, but then we.

Like Maria giving yourself away. Yeah. Jeez.

We just realized like the conversion just wasn't happening. So, of those 5,400 people, 31 people were able to sign up when we did launch.

And then we switched to a dollar a month. And now, like our conversions dropped down to like 2.6% conversions every 7 days. We got like 600 people in. But at the same time, like, do you think that's more effective instead of free? Because we've tried the whole free strategy, just didn't seem to work. And so now we set a.

I just don't think you converted well.

Oh, okay.

You weren't doing one-on-one calls.

You weren't doing one-on-one calls.

We won. It was just group calls.

Dude, the, you have like this only works with the call. It's all of them lead to here. You didn't have the thing. They got the money. These are all CTAs, not to join paid. These are all CTAs to get on a call, which is easier to get people to get on a call than get someone to buy something. And then on the call, you can get them to buy.

Okay.

You create friction too when you just make it $1. Like the goal for the free community is just to get people in the free community. And if you make it a dollar, people are like.

You get the worst of both.

You get the conversion. You get the, the bad, I'm saying bad in quotes. You get paid if you just think about it as paid versus not paid rather than $1. Like, um, and by the way, this is hilarious because Dan Arieli studied what he called the penny gap. Um, but basically he had Hershey kisses on a college campus and he said, you can have a Hershey kiss for free or you can have a Hershey kiss for a penny. The number of people who took the free versus the penny was 1/nth. So free was nine times more effective at converting. And so right now we're at 18% and 2% or not two, we're at four, but whatever it is, it's the, the fact that that was the, the discrepancy between the two, like maps almost perfectly to that. And so you're getting the, the huge loss of paid, but not the money that you get from paid. So you want to go as little friction as possible and then push to the highest conversion mechanism that exists, which is a phone call. I got to share. Um, I follow, I got to give credit to Ken. Like I was, I felt the same way because it was just like, I didn't want to have a free because I didn't want to have like fascinating humors that come. Uh, but then I listen to him and then he's like, "Make it frictionless." Like anybody can get in. And now I get people that I, I'm like, "Where this?" I mean, my community just keeps growing. And it's just free. There's no friction. There's no dollar. There's, they just come. There's no questions. Like I got, I mean, that's his fault, but my community.

I blame Ted.

We, we did that like for the first 5,000 people who were in the free group, we did like zero. But most of them were like more the exotic names like more like the lower demographics or are you like maybe what.

Are you a nameist?

Wow.

Wow. Keep going.

Yeah. Yeah.

I will. I will. So the, the thought behind the dollar was like, okay, if we can get people with a credit card who are willing to spend the dollar, but obviously what you mentioned is very valuable. So.

I mean, we're going to change that.

You might. I mean, at that point with the $1, it's like, you might, what do you have two communities, right? So, what's the, what's the paid, the higher paid community?

That mentorship lifetime membership.

How much is that though? Lifetime. How much is the, how much is the expensive one?

$9.99.

Okay. So, you could probably just boost the $1 to probably like 50 bucks and it probably convert. I mean, it'll be less, but not that much less. And then you can take those calls and then sell them into something more than $9.99 for life.

All right. If you have a free community, too. It doesn't even matter if the person, the people that come in aren't your ideal member because you could just utilize that audience that's not a good fit even for like affiliates or something later. Like.

We would just still building up an audience.

Yeah. And I would just screen them. I got you. I, I would screen them. Um, like if you have too much traffic, then you can qualify people for calls.

Yeah.

Questions.

That's what people say when they're like, "Oh, I got to go grab my credit card. I'll do it after the call." I'm like, "Well, if you actually just click, since you already have a community, I think your card's already saved." And then they do it. They're like, "Oh, I just joined." I'm like, "Yeah."

And that's how you convert with the free. That works. So.

And that's why I've seen some of the groups that start free and then launch a paid. It works well because they've already got everyone a school account.

Yeah.

So, now it's only a real small step, right? So, like, yeah, it's getting better every day.

Yeah. That's an advantage with the free community because we sell people straight from email. So what we do is we do like group sales calls. So we get, because we've got a lot of traffic. So I mean, talk about scalability. Um, you can just do the one-to-one onboarding calls with like five or 10 people and as long as you're getting more sales per hour. Like, let's say you're doing 30-minute slots and you're getting 50%. So you're signing one person an hour. If you do an hour-long call with five or 10 people and you're signing more than that, it's worth it. But the issue we get with that is we spend a long chunk of time at the end of the call getting people to sign up.

So that is because like pulling in your car details and they have a problem because for some reason sometimes they put in their car details and the join button is grayed out and it doesn't work. So sometimes you have to change browser and then it works.

They put in there, like what country are these people from?

Uh, US, sometimes it's UK. It, it's strange. Sometimes I just tell them like, "Just try on your phone and it works." Or sometimes it's like, "Try Google instead of."

Surprise. Do you rewatching their screen when it did this? No, because it's like multiple people.

That happens.

You're talking about when they go in and they type everything in and then the the join button's like gray still and they can't do it.

Can anyone figure out how to reproduce that?

Cuz I hear people say this, but I can't reproduce it.

It doesn't happen like.

Do you have recorded sales calls, right?

Yes.

They just send the recordings. Well, I don't, they're usually not sharing their screen.

Because I've got my theory is that it's the, the browser. Like.

It's got to be something with cash. Yeah.

The time, right? And the user.

Like somebody will be on Safari. I say, "Can you just go to Google Chrome real quick?" And then they do the same thing and it works. And then sometimes it's the other way around. Sometimes they're on Google Chrome. "Hey, can you go to Safari real quick?"

They're using an autofill.

No, no, they're putting it in manual.

I've seen that they've entered their zip in.

Yeah.

Everything. Like I've had a funny case where I had a guy.

Who literally just.

CSV zip everything and it's just gray.

They just have to get it.

I can't figure this one out. I keep hearing about it every now and then, but.

It's like one out of every, I don't, I haven't gotten.

One every like three days or so. Like a DM saying like, "I can't buy." And then.

Once a week.

Yeah, once a week maybe. But it definitely happens like multiple.

Yeah. The thing that's annoying is if it's once a week, it's once a week that DMs you, but it's like there's five other people who write and that's annoying. Yeah.

Yeah. I think it'll be better if the buttons just yellow cuz then at least it would or give you the error.

Do you think sometimes, you know, when you have to like go through it and then this, you can't see the CSV until you like fill out the next thing and then it kind of pushes it over? Maybe it'd be good if you could just see everything instead of having to wait to fill it out to push it over. You know what I mean?

True. But I'm nervous to screw with that too much cuz it's pretty good. [Laughter] Don't fix the about page.

I told you we made 16 changes to our funnel and 14 changes made it worse.

I, I, to be fair, like I haven't gotten that in a while, but.

I have a question related and not related to that. Can I ask?

Uh, yeah. Um, so when, as an affiliate, if I send my link, so like let's say I wanted to sign up with Ted for a new community, but if I'm not, but he, I'm already signed up with him. But let's say that I'm in Alex's community, then you're.

I wouldn't get the credit. Alex would get the credit even though I wanted to give it to.

Oh, she's talking about click attribution. So is there a way to make it to where like if I just wanted to stick with to one affiliate?

Yeah, you could create a group if you wanted of all affiliate attribution to go to T.

You could create a group from his group.

But without having like, so like if my, if my, if I just go to his link, can it be, could that link just go back to Ted even if I'm wherever I so that I don't have to.

Yeah. Well, you know, Alex, that's what will happen. If you follow Ted's link, it'll go to him.

Even if you're in his group. Yeah, you can join whatever group you want.

You won't be in his group when you click your link.

It. So, I'll, I'll take a screenshot of that then because like sometimes if I'm, if I go to the link, but if I have Alex open, then Sam will show up in the little picture instead of Cat.

Don't be shy. You can just ask for his link. He'll give it to you. Don't worry.

I know. You'll have to like.

Like give me a video or something. Yeah. Able to reproduce the problem.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So if you're in somebody's community like if you're in their community and you click and search for communities and you create your own that's hard to like create you.

So that another way that goes to the community that I'm in.

The most proven way to do it.

Um, but just record a video if you ever see something not worth it.

But if you think about it like, like I figured it out. Me and my my business partner, we figured it out. But people that are totally new to the platform, like if I'm an affiliate, I'm sending a lot of affiliates and someone who is totally brand new. Like I was losing affiliates and I was like, "What? I don't see you in my."

Are you losing affiliates?

Uhhuh.

So you had people.

I mean, I didn't have them. I didn't lose them. I just didn't take them.

Oh, they just didn't.

They didn't show up on my thing because when I send them my link.

Uhhuh.

I, I send them my link. They, they thought they signed up with my link, but then I wouldn't send them on my little list. And then we figured out that if you're, if you have another community open, even if you're like, let's say I'm with Ted, right? Yeah. And I open Ted, but then I'm in somebody else's community, then it would go back to that even. But if you're like a total novice to school, you don't know how to do that mess. If they, if someone's in, so joins a group and they start a school community or, you know, start their own community using the same email they joined Maria's group, doesn't that automatically track to Maria? It doesn't direct. Okay, so they have to click your link. Got it. Okay.

Unless if they hadn't touched anyone else's links since they touched Maria's, then yeah, it would go to Maria's.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's that's where I was going. Yeah. So it's only in the instance where someone has gone to another community where that conflict comes up. But if someone joins your community, hasn't joined any others, and then starts a school community, it'll get tracked back to Maria.

If they're still within 30 days, but if they wander off somewhere else, then it'll go to wherever they've been wandering off.

It's still better to make it explicit, like if you can offer them a bonus for going under your affiliates and then just have it really explicit. Click this link, make sure you use this link for.

Well, I mean, now I've learned the hard way. Okay.

So, I mean, now I walk him through, but I think you would, I would rather have friction list and no men do.

Yeah. Attribution stuff for every, every platform earlier.

Yeah. Has there been any data assessment on which funnels work best for school games winners or, um, school communities as far as like any surveys or things like that as far as like funneling because I mean, we've tried doing like the free community, the paid community. I understand like people just have simply just click on a link. Is there anything that you guys have done?

So if you have a ton of traffic and you don't have the operational infrastructure, going straight to paid is the is the simplest way to just make money. And the biggest lever on the about page, what we found is the VSSL. So that's like for everybody. Like, if there's one thing to obsess about on your funnel, it'll be the video. That's the first video that people see.

Yeah. Look at Evelyn's about page. I think hers is a great example. She's using cold traffic. It's like 60 bucks and she's getting 4.5%. Just direct to pay, which is really good.

Yeah. With.

From directly to her school about page is where her ads lead to.

Yes.

So no DM or anything.

No.

Right.

Yeah.

All the DM and all that stuff is if you're doing free.

But you have to have a like, um, Max is M. You guys have, uh, school, school masterclass. You guys have how many people work at school masterclass?

Four basically.

Okay. And you guys all basically work and convert the group from free to paid.

Yeah.

Right.

Except for Max.

Yeah. Except for Max. Max doesn't do anything. I'm kidding. Um, uh, but so basically three. Yeah. They have three full-time people basically working this to convert people from free to paid. But if you have a ton of traffic, which it sounds like you do, then the simplest, um, model is just go straight to paid.

Look at the all-time leaderboards. It's quite reveal. See the top 10 on the all-time. They've just got one main traffic source like Creditpreneur, as one example. He just uses Instagram organic straight to an about page. Low ticket price like 50 bucks or something makes like 100 grand. Um, Evelyn's similar, Max is similar. Oh, in the 14 Forex for women,

They're crushing.

They did a promotion, by the way, Homozy, to get people to upgrade to annual. In four days, they collected 300 grand in cash.

Oh [ __ ]

They have such an engaged community.

I swear they got a lot of people to take annual.

Yeah.

Yeah. They just did like 10K like on Wednesday in like a day. I'm pretty sure it was had to be out.

Well, they're at 167, uh, per month right now. And that's with the discount that you're very worried about for people upgrading Daniel. Um, but yeah, so it's like Team Forex goes straight. Max, you guys have the two-step. Kenneth is.

Max also goes straight.

Oh, cuz he runs ad straight to 80 blend.

Say again.

You guys do a blend of free group and direct to paid, right?

We drive all cold traffic to the free and then once they've joined the free, they stop getting cold and it's just all retargeting basically. Yeah. And then we still keep them even if they join the paid as kind of like a retention piece. They still get retargeting ads.

Got it. So you're driving everything to free then.

Yeah.

Retargeting goes to paid.

All cold traffic is to free and then once they've joined the, but the pixel kind of like knows that they've been in the free. So it's just all retargeting ads after that. Yeah.

To just to the paid.

I wonder if that's more efficient than just going direct to pay. I think it is because like we, our whole thing is that we want to like nurture people first. Like, yeah, some people will just buy right away, but like most people need a little bit of like.

I think he had issues getting it to be profitable on the on the acquisition.

I signed up off that retargeting ad.

To masterclass.

Still profitable too after all total ads. I mean, pretty good ROI. So yeah.

Yes. So if you look at the all-time leaderboard, you can like, you can just go through it and just look at the funnels that these guys have. True.

Um, well, pretty much just adding on to what we were saying before, even though, um, his organic Instagram page gets like a ton of traffic, the way we have it set up right now is that, um, our ads actually direct to the DMs where we first send like free value and then we have DM closers that essentially close them through the DMs rather than sending ads directly to our about page. And I just want to know what your opinions on that was.

Ads. Wait, are you saying when you're saying Instagram traffic, are you saying you're organic traffic or you also running ads on top?

Both of them are going to DM. So in in the organic traffic, he some of the videos he CTA, some he doesn't, but the CTA is always to DM, whether it's ad or organic. And then we have closers in there that.

Is it Manage Chat?

Yeah, mini chat where we're limited to what three force slots.

That's the problem.

You got to just try it.

Try straight to the about.

Would be preferable, wouldn't it if you could just drive it to the about.

Yeah, because then.

we wouldn't have to pay closers anymore.

Exactly. But but right now, our our uh, closing rate out of every DM, it's five out of 100 DMs get closed. So 5%.

Yeah. Some like VSSL send to close, it's 4.8%.

Just try it.

Yeah. This thing could be a lot more easy for you guys. I think.

They, they really like thinking that they're talking to me.

Yeah.

But there's a difference, like because because his main platform is much 5%. Uh, uh, I've gotten like a lot of uh, so stories, I guess. So I feel like a lot of times you get really low-quality leads, especially when you talk about like, um, with ads, I get, I feel like I get a lot more low-quality leads on ads, probably more than anything because of the demographic that it like promotes. Not gonna say too much on that, but I feel like maybe just direct to the about page. Low ticket is the perfect thing for these people. We should interest you guys. No, you guys did the lifetime though. You guys were doing lifetime for.

Oh, we we fixed that like 40 minutes ago.

Oh, well, the stats you just shared, the 5% was all off of a lifetime deal.

Yeah.

Right. 300 versus 50. Might be able to just keep the same four, four or five percent and still get what? Actually, Evelyn, now that you're back, what what percentage are taking the, um, annual off of ads?

So, when I had it at $49, it was 18%.

18.

Mhm. But when I changed it to 59, I only had out of 95 purchases, two buyers of them. So, it was like really weird. And my conversion rate went from 4.79% to 2.7.

Was this the same discount though? Like in percentage from annual?

Even steeper after cuz the first like after the first that came in, I was like, "This changed." Let me try to fix it. So I I dropped the price and the annual difference was 39, uh, 95 versus 444.

No, for the annual.

Oh god. Yeah. Yeah. So the discount. So the discount for annual went down and the conversion went up.

No, I gave a I gave a higher dis. So first.

I'm just going to write the numbers up real quick just so I can see it.

Jesse to.

Wait, now with all the members. So I'm not saying.

The first one you did. The first one you did. So before, this is when it was at 4 point, was it 4.7?

Yeah. So I'm just checking the pricing in the.

So I'm giving you the accurate number. You're good.

Yeah, she basically increased her price by 10 bucks and it bombed.

The conversion.

And the amount of people taking annual.

Yeah, that one's wild to me.

It went from 3.95 annual to 444.

Oh, got it. I thought I thought. Okay, that's interesting. That's really interesting.

444. Is that it?

Something like that.

Yeah.

There's also I wonder if you.

Very unlucky number.

Yeah.

What?

44.

Yeah. Oh [ __ ].

Are you guys taking notes? Make sure you write that down.

Cuz I don't want to say something.

No, you're good. But it's worth because a lot of you guys, you guys specifically have a lot of questions that are related to that are just math problems that are very easy to test and you would just know the answer rather than wondering.

I mean, we've run 16 tests, so like.

I guess it's just the fact that, um, just the anxiety of doing the split test worry. But I guess there's nothing that can be done besides doing.

I mean, if it works, keep it. If it doesn't, you just always switch it back.

I I have I have a feeling though because Dav's main platform is IG, right? So he's kind of pushing, uh, he's getting leads from short form. I feel like the leads quality is kind of lower than if his main platform was YouTube, right? Then you're more able to sell the link. So, I feel like the DMs just helps the conversion go higher.

You can DM the link to the about page if you really wanted to, like not change that much.

Well, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, but what? There's no point in worrying about it. You might be right.

I guess because you can find out in a week.

And then you won't have to think about it anymore.

I guess.

Because if you have the chance to eliminate DM closers and then the thing is, it's not just eliminating these ones. It's like, well, if we scale, then we have to keep scaling that team.

Yeah.

If you can eliminate that entire. It's also just a variable because you got good DM closers, you got bad DM closers.

[ __ ].

I was. Yeah, I trained them well.

Martin.

I can attest. I mean, at first, there they were not that great. Then Martin came in, fixed out.

Is 5% like not okay?

I don't know.

Yeah.

But it doesn't sound.

I mean, 5% out of 100 for a $300 offer, I don't feel like is that terrible.

But we got nothing to compare it to.

Yeah, it's not good or bad. It's like.

I guess so. Yeah, there's no comparison.

Yeah, but the $50 offer might crush for you guys. You should look at what Creditpreneur is doing. He's on the all-time leaderboards.

He's $35 a month.

Well, I don't know. Can you look at the price point? Kenneth, cuz you guys are Instagram, you said.

Yeah, he's purely Instagram organic.

And he's got.

He runs directly to about page.

Yeah, direct to their about page.

He's the. He's the link in his bio.

Have a look.

He also does webinars.

Yeah, he does webinars too. He doesn't make posts, I don't think, like call to action, Instagram posts.

You should look at what he's doing. I don't know all the ins and outs, but I know he sells through the about page at some point in the funnel. Okay, I had the numbers.

Okay, great.

That was a perfect commercial break. All right.

Uh, when I introduced the 3.95 price, the first 88 customers, 16 took the annual upsell, and that was all traffic for 3.95. Yeah. So, it was 18%. It was really incredible.

And it was what out of 88?

16%. Uh, uh, 16 people. So, 18%.

16 out of 88. Okay.

Yeah. Then I increased the price to 59 and I tried to give, um, 20% discount. So I wanted to see, you know, what was it? The steeper discount of 33%. So when I increased the price to 59, uh, I had 73 purchases and zero annual upsells that came.

73.

Yeah. Out of 73, zero took it. Then I got like a little bit. I don't think this is working.

That was for 555.

555. That's definitely. No, 555 is lucky in China.

That's a good number, isn't it? That's a good number. That one's. That one's better.

I thought 55 was really good.

Well, there's better numbers.

Like like what?

111, 333, 88. They're better.

All right. Hold on. Hold on. Let's get this. So four is 4.7 here. What was this one?

Conversion rate here.

So zero people.

No. No. But what was the what was the.

Oh, no. Conversion rate up there was, uh, and here it was, uh, 2.7. That's conversion rate, like overall on the about page.

Okay.

So that dropped and then when I dropped the price to 444.

And what's that like 53 or something?

Yeah. So I had here, I had, um, a to. So also 59 for the monthly, then 400 for for the yearly, and I had 55 purchases and three took the annual. So it's like a 5%. Was the annual like right off the about page or was it like after?

Yeah.

55 customers.

So many fives. Good. It's a good number.

But yeah, I mean, this is this is such a cra like like this is this like if we were to say, "Hey, if she were, if if Evelyn would have been like, should I go from 49 to 59?" I really would have been like, "I don't know. Try it. Might make a difference." But it's like, it obviously made a massive difference. Well, do you know what the conversion was on, um, on this? Well, same same conversion.

2.7.

Yeah.

So, where this gets really interesting is if you go, if you run 100 clicks through this, just Excel, like 16 at 395, uh, and whatever that is, 72 at, uh, sorry, 72, no, 72, 72 at 49. You can look at your total cash collected off of 100 clicks and the EPCs are probably way more. I mean, probably.

Yeah, that one's destroying.

Yeah, because the annual just murders it.

That was so killer.

Yeah.

Uh, it was $6,000 extra.

Yeah. So, it's like not even. It's like it's order. It's 10 times.

I've seen things like this happen. Like I've saw Hamza raise his price from $129 to $169 and it, he dropped his conversion rate by 400%.

So, from 129 to 169.

Yeah. Like you just. And for somebody else, they might make the change and like nothing happens.

That's what happened to us.

Yeah.

Right. Great.

Better, right?

It went better. Yeah. We went better. We went from $99 to like $1.99 and nothing. It was better.

That's great.

People stay longer as well.

Yeah. And the journey.

Yeah. So, so like you just got like you have to test it. I know you want certainty from like a like you just need to try it. Would it be best, and this is just me throwing this out there, completely serious.

To have $69 a month and 420 lifetime.

[Laughter]

No lifetime.

Oh, he means annual.

With the preface of, "I'm being very serious." Everyone's like, "What's he talking about?"

No, I I feel like in principle that would do well. That's.

Yeah, I think you can do annual. Yeah.

Those sound like good numbers.

69, 420. I bet you that'll crush.

Actually, that'd be hilarious. It's 69 per month and 420 per year.

What's that as an annual discount? I'm not sure.

It's it's it's buy seven, get six. Sorry, buy seven, get five, something like that.

I actually want to first test upping the price with the ads before going back down to 49 because I'm not sure if 59 is just a price point that people can't really conceptualize. So, I I want to test first.

Um, what are you going to test next?

Actually, I want to go a little bit higher from the price point of the monthly and I want to see how it affects the conversion.

If you do like 97.

Yeah.

So, I I because it could be that it actually converts better than 59 because people don't have the reference, like, how much is 59 a month, you know?

What would be interesting is if you did like 99 and 3.95.

Yeah.

Are you sure the traffic was consistent this whole time though? Always Facebook ads sales campaign optimizing for purchase sim.

Same ads. You didn't see.

I even made the same ad because I make it less page post so I can delete the ads and just edit the price.

And you didn't do any announcements or anything?

Oh, the same social proof. Yeah, it's pretty good.

The same social proof. So I wanted to have. I mean, it's not clean, but it's.

I would probably rebase it first.

Like just switch it back to here. Make sure.

See if see if something else has changed because if you go back to that original price and you get those numbers again, you're like, "Okay."

Makes sense.

Now I'm like, "Now let's try something again."

What's your What is it set at right now? Is it this?

Right now, it's still. Yeah, because I I wanted to test, okay, if I'm, um, going down with the annual again, will I get sales? Right. Because I was like,

How is it possible? So many people take the annual and nobody.

Yeah.

So, I wanted to test it that before.

Yeah. Well, 555 versus 395 for sure is a difference in price.

Yeah. But the 444 and the 395, you wouldn't think it makes such a big difference. People don't know like what 59 per month.

Who knows? Who knows? We can create narratives around it, but we have no idea.

All we know is that when you send 100 clicks in this time, that is what happened.

Yeah, I'm going to reset it.

Yeah, but I think. Yeah, reset. Like if you reset and then the number isn't that, then it means something else changed.

You guys were talking about your split test. You said that you guys needed like what was it? 60,000.

A lot of data. So for us, how do we know that like the numbers are getting them? Like.

Sam designed our system. So I'll let Sam answer that.

What What are you testing?

Like if we were doing these tests, how do we know it's like, "Okay, this is valid." If it took you guys 60,000 clicks to get like significant data.

You just got to.

If it's a big drop, then you need less clicks. So like it's when things are more close that it's really hard. So, you've just got to do the best you can do. Like, how many clicks did you drive to each one of those versions, Evelyn?

Um, so.

You said you got a roughly 100 buyers, it looks like, or getting close to that.

Yeah. So, um, you know, with the of getting 3,000 a week, let's just see from the amount of clicks.

You can divide whatever by four by times 20.

3,300ish clicks. So, if you guys don't. So, to your to answer your question from an objective perspective, there's, um, if you just do a statistical significance calculator, you Google it, there's a ton of them, and you just, it just says test A, test B, and you just plug in the numbers and it'll tell you which one is the one if it has enough statistical, uh, sign, whether it's statistically significant. And then all the way leading up to it, there'll be a confidence score that continues to go up. And so, basically, when it's at like 100%, that's like for sure this is statistically significant. If there's like a 80% confidence score, then it's like, "All right, well, this, this 80% that this is going to be the winner." So Neil Patel has one on his site, which is what I use. If you're doing quick and dirty, 69 and 420, you know what I'm saying?

I saw a hand over here somewhere. Yeah, shoot.

For hiring, like for scale, like where do you normally look for your people? Like inside of the community or outside, let's say for onboarding when it gets like absolutely crazy. Yeah, I think I think we talk about this almost every time. Um, yeah, within the community is the easiest place to look because they already, they already know. It also depends on the role. So, if you're looking for like community moderators, then for sure just look for the people who are always active, who have the flame emoji, who are constantly inside of the community because they already do it for free, they'll do it for money.

But how do you like because we're teaching people how to make money, but like to a point they become successful.

Yeah.

And they're already making more money like from what they're doing. There's plenty of people who make money and like quote giving back and there's some people who just like talking about business more than doing business.

And there's more people that aren't making money than are.

Always.

I was then people are just going for the flame and not getting actual money.

What's the role?

Oh, just for onboarding, pretty much. Just.

Just onboarding. Yeah. There's tons of people who probably love the community, haven't made any money yet, but like are super champs, like you were just saying. Max hired him and he was out of the community.

That's funny because we thought indeed, like, "Oh, this guy did not make any money. Why will why once he do the onboarding?" And we, we right now have the breakthrough. We are trying always to overdeliver, but it's just an onboarding and just welcome them and he's taking them like a whole coaching call. I'm like, "No, it's an onboarding, it's not the coaching."

So, yeah.

Okay. When we start taking on more people to do and like we ramp up onboarding calls, I wanted to get your opinion on what do you think would be like a good commission structure? So, basically, what it they do is they don't have to do any of the calendar bookings. They basically just open up their calendar, have calls, take calls, and they're basically just inclined to keep that person in the community because they'll obviously get a percentage of that monthly recurring revenue. I was just curious, just like as we scale, just to make sure there's still room for everything else, like what would be a good commission structure?

I'm actually not sure. So these are the people who are taking customers.

Who would who would come on and take sales calls essentially.

Okay. So just a salesman role.

Yeah. So what, yeah, I was probably over.

Because they then do CSM to keep them from canceling because they get paid based on all the recurring.

I personally hate that, but.

So, like they're basically. No, I understand what they do. They're selling people and then keeping the relationship. There's I can't think of a business actually, couldn't think of. No, I can't think of a business that the sales people do the delivery.

So, what would you recommend? Like a good.

Salespeople and customer success. They're two separate functions.

So, what would the sales rep get for annual or monthly? Like what would be the compensation there?

They would get a percentage of the upfront cash that's collected.

Just every month? No recurring? Like.

You get on, you got them to buy, you get a percentage of the upfront cash from that first purchase.

That's it.

That's it. No monthly recurring for sales reps at all.

No.

They needed to take their next sales calls.

Which percentage do you think? Like 50%.

Honestly, with the percentages, it's all about reverse engineering what skill level is required to find a salesman who can do it and then what comp that needs to be and then the expected volume of calls and what you think they should close to be a good medium great. And then you just back into it.

What percentage would that be upfront? Would it be more?

I'll say me personally, I try to have it never more than 10% of total revenue.

But that may mean if you know that you're going to keep people for six months, they may get half the first payment.

Yeah, cuz I'm thinking if they did that, I'll bet you you'll sell way more annuals.

Yeah.

Okay. I mean, if the sales guys are are incentivized the same way the business is, which I always do off cash collected, nothing else, because that's what they did. They worked for that.

That's what we were thinking of doing monthly because it's still cash collected every month and they are. But that's kind of where we're at where the.

Value they're vast majority. Okay.

Don't do that. I'm like, "Don't argue this anymore." Like, here's the big reason why is that every time somebody cancels or has a negative experience, that guy then has another sales call right afterwards where they're like, "It's amazing after they just got yelled at by somebody else." Like, you always separate CS and sales. It's a Chinese wall.

So if you have a longer LTV, then it would you'd be willing to give that person a bigger chunk of the first initial payment?

I would give them not necessarily a bigger chunk. I would give them the chunk required in order to attract the level salesperson who's required to sell that thing. So, if I'm selling gym memberships, which is literally identical, I didn't give rev shares to all the people who sold memberships. They got a percentage of the cash up front. That was it. And you don't have to do it by percentage. You can just say a flat dollar amount. So, you say, "Okay, let's say annuals are a grand and, uh, upfront, you know, the other one's 125." It's like, "Cool. I'll give you 50 bucks on on these and I'll give you, you know, 150 on the annuals." So the percentage is less, but.

Yeah.

It's more money and it's has to just be enough to incentivize them to try and close it. It's like each one of these is worth three.

And then we'd sell more annuals.

Yes.

I'd give more for annuals.

Yeah, you would give more for annuals.

You get like more than the percentage, right?

Max would have more taxes though, so maybe you should make less money.

He's watching.

I know.

Commission.

Yeah. What?

Ultimate commission. Yeah.

Government.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. You're up.

Sweet. All right. Well, I feel like we, uh, we hit high ticket to low ticket. Uh.

Yeah.

I hate to be that guy, but I got one one more question.

I am that.

You like being that guy.

I think what I'm getting from this is that if you have a question, you can just kind of [ __ ] around and find out with a lot of. Yeah. But my question is, um, maybe.

Regarding the high ticket.

Good framing.

Regarding high ticket funnels, I'm curious which one, which one you think would.

Yeah. Tell me.

Curious what you guys found out when you tested when you tested my tickets funnels for annual. Do you think going to a a webinar to the sales call or just the about maybe, uh, webinars or sales call to the about page, or just do you think bringing people from a free community to a call would convert better? You want to take it or.

I couldn't even hear what he was saying. So the.

Kid, maybe you should help him.

Webinar to the call to the sale, or free community to the call to the sale for ads.

Okay. So you're going ad to webinar automated?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah. Automated.

You guys aren't associated.

Do the easiest thing possible.

Basically.

Yeah. Add to.

Yeah. I'll draw it.

Yeah. Okay. That'd be.

Oh, that's right. You guys are associated.

Ads.

Webby.

Webby.

Is this, uh, automated?

Yes. Like, yeah. Like a webinar or a VSSL?

Yeah. Whatever. Okay.

Yes.

Okay. Is it a VSSL or webinar?

Either.

Yeah. It's a webinar. It's the automated webinar.

Okay. Add Autob then.

Sales call.

Okay. Cool. Versus replacing the webinar with like a free group.

I mean, they're just two different conversion mechanisms.

To what price product?

He's going to speedrunners. That's what this is.

Oh, that's a phone.

I've been trying to figure out what that is.

There you go. Jeez. This is a dollar sign. Thank you for working with me.

The answer is whatever one works best.

Yeah, duh.

Thank you, sir.

Make sure the number is a good number, too.

Yeah.

No, I mean, there's people. Yeah, there's people crushing on both of those.

It's not the bottleneck. You have a profitable webinar, just increase ad spend.

Yeah.

Yeah, bro.

Well, I'm hearing all this talk about the community. I'm getting FOMO. Shiny object syndrome. But, okay, [ __ ].

This is a good talk. Okay.

The one that makes more.

If you if you do the bottom one, you're going to need a big team to do appointments.

I did this in Excel with Kirby one day. I was real curious about the different models. So, like using the free group funnel where you do a sales call and you, I modeled it all out. It took like, honestly, longer than an hour, um, to get this one efficiency metric of like earnings per click.

Yeah.

Right. And so you, you can earn six times more per click when you do free groups and DMs and calls and all of that. Right. Which is good, but you pay for it with complexity and.

And human resources, like.

Right. It's it has a cost for sure. Um, and so it depends, it depends if you can hit your income goal with with the small, simple one. If you can, that's better. But if you can't, then you trade complexity.

Yeah.

For your goal because you have limited traffic, like.

Well, any anyone who opts into the webinar should also be invited to join the free community anyway.

Yeah. Through emails.

Through a webhook to the thank you page for, "Hey, join the webinar from Grass now, join the free community."

Or you reverse it too. Have them join the free community. They just highlight the webinar from.

Inside there and then you keep.

You could webhook them too directly to the join link.

School hook.

Could do both.

But your top one, it works so well, just increase ad spend.

So if leads are not the constraint, go for the simplest funnel.

Yeah, just spend more.

I mean, if you could ultimately do nothing and get paid, that would be better yet.

Have you, you really find a wealthy.

Passive income, bro.

Any country I should start living in?

Dubai.

Oh, sick.

You have all the laws are for men there, too. So, you're ready.

Lower tax, too. That has to be factored into the model.

Yeah.

If you could do nothing, get paid and pay no tax.

[ __ ] What are we doing here?

But I swear this always starts the wrong way whenever we talk about it. It's like, you should start with your goal.

Yeah.

Because then you can figure out if it's possible with the really easy model and then you add the complexity as necessary to get the goal. Right. But I would always start from that. The largest company we have in the portfolio is add to webinar.

Is it automated like daily or like every three.

Every two minutes. Whatever it is. Yeah.

What do people use for automated webinars these days? What's the.

I think they use Auto Webinar.

Still. Yeah.

Thing's got some longevity.

Yeah, it does. Now, I was actually talking to, um.

It's kind of shitty, too. Like.

I was talking to Frank about it because he knows Andy Jenkins and like it still just does like 10 million bucks a year and there's like six employees or something. I don't know if it's six points, but it's just been they just haven't really updated anything. Um, and there's ever webinar anyways. So, yeah, we just go add webinar and we actually go straight to sale. We just create straight to checkout.

What's the price point?

2K.

Oh, waffle. It's one offer. Not.

One offer.

And then we call those leads with a phone.

And then we ask them if they want to buy more.

If they bought, or just anyway.

No, just if you bought.

Sell them again. We saw him again.

I know. More of that thing you just bought. Always crushes.

We do like a Q&A at the end like as they're buying on a webinar. So, how would you like pre-record that if it's like, I guess the questions wouldn't be actually there.

You script that like the most common, like an FAQ on a sales page. You write it and then you answer it. Well, that's what I did. Just assume that like people won't see every question in the webinar and they'll just think somebody asked that.

Oh, well, you make the offer and then you just keep going.

You hand all the questions in it.

Yeah. Like webinars like the like the webinar we have, I think it's like 3 hours, but people buy at 40, you know, 45 minutes, 50 minutes, 65, like they just basically it's like if they're still watching, we're still selling. I remember what I did for the FAQ when I did auto webinar. So I looked at everyone who had registered for the webinar, put it into Excel and found the most common names because there was like more Sarahs and Michaels and [ __ ]. Then I used them to ask the most common questions and then I came up with the best answers.

The most common people asking the most common questions.

So it had the most likelihood of being live.

Yeah. But I never said it was live. That's the key because someone will catch you otherwise. So you kind of act like it is, but you never say.

Yeah.

Wait, how do you do for like if you want to show like people converting in the webinar?

Well, you don't.

Oh, you don't. You can play the sound effect to the screen.

I can't.

That I swear is a very good webinar tactic. I've heard of that happening and then it happened to me by accident. You guys saw on that webinar I did the other day. I was trying to present something and then everyone started buying it.

Oh, yeah.

And I couldn't even focus.

Yeah. Like imagine if you were doing a webinar and you then gave people the link and it's just going kaching kaching kaching kaching. I heard of that happening to people and it then other people start buying. You saw the effect that that had on other people, right?

I bought because of it.

Well, there you go.

That could be an ultimate strategy. Honestly.

We have that on our group sales. It's like people start buying and it goes like it's like really disoriented. Does it create more people buying?

Because what you say is like, "Oh, hey Jack, I just got you in the community." And then other people who just lurking around who haven't left the call yet end up like.

And they're like, "I'll try it, too."

It's like a proof.

It's like in the. It's like at a conference when everyone's going up. Yeah.

And they're in the chat on YouTube. So like, "Yeah, I mean," and I say like, "Yeah, and the name." So more people buy.

Yeah. It's like social proof instant and real because they can see like whoever from Mexico just joined, but they don't know if that's true. And if they are online and they saw that that guy was engaging all the way in the YouTube live.

Yeah, I love that little tip though that you said a lot of the Brazilians did the meteoric launches, launch the first, the first buyer. I love that. I will probably use.

And they do with like the first buyer and also the first hour. So if you don't get the first price, at least that first hour goes crazy.

So if you buy.

The last buyer.

Yeah. That would be a losing strategy.

Yeah. Everyone just. Everyone just waits.

Yeah. You're thinking like last comment, right?

Till the cart close and then.

Everyone's out like, "No."

That's a very good. Imagine that you do that for the book launch.

Do anyone watching do not do that.

Yeah. The thing with this though is that the constraint of that that process is that the webinar has to be absolutely like like a work of art.

With closes throughout or.

Oh, just the whole thing, the setup, the premise, like the the examples, the analogies, the stats that you show, like everything like the founder of the company that that that does that, um, in our portfolio, like I honestly think his single greatest skill is that he is just unbelievable at webinars. How long is it?

It's like 3 hours.

3 hours. Holy [ __ ].

Yeah, but the buy button drops at 45.

Oh, okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

All right. That changes a lot.

Yeah. And then it's just it's just like they're still on. So, it just you just overcome everything you possibly can.

Isn't the consulting.com webinar that Sam did like three hours?

[Laughter]

Well, it's cuz it was the last buyer gets the.

There's two guys on. They're like, "Just hold tryouts. Go for it."

Can I ask a question? Um, so.

Um.

Very fun.

Oh, thank you. Uh, so I thought about doing an offer for the speedrunners that is higher priced, right? And so I thought of adding a pre component ads.

And Kirby talked me out of it.

Okay.

Um, and saying I should think along the lines of a mastermind.

Okay. And so I was wondering, you had a mastermind webinar, I think Sam.

How how much are your successful people making?

With my most successful ones?

I mean, that's one of my favorite successful ones.

So what is it?

Um.

Yeah, I'm in school. 23k rough. Yeah.

Do you have like a decent amount of people making 20 grand a month?

Yeah.

Yes. You could easily come up with a mastermind. I have actually like a few people that are like, "I don't want to cancel, but I also, you don't have anything anymore at my level and I don't want to be in the community."

What are you thinking for a year?

Um, for the price or for the members?

Price.

Um, I would go with the $49.99 that Kirby said for the year.

Cuz that's the limit. Yeah.

I would to go nowhere, but I'm also bullying that.

Yeah, cuz you could charge 12 grand for that easily. Like.

18. Yeah.

I've seen a lot of people start at 12 because of the confidence thing and then they start working up. Huh.

It's the first time I'm like, I did the I'm doing multiple seven figures. That's the would be the highest like thing I've ever sold.

Yeah. But it's going to be different because you can offer in-person event.

Yeah.

And that changes everything.

It does.

Yeah. But.

We were talking about this.

Like people would still fly themselves in, right? So I wouldn't have the cost of that. It would just be my time and I would love if people come to sing.

Yeah. You'll also get amazing ads.

Honestly, it's real easy to do. Like it's takes barely any time. The problem is you've just got to build a really good base to be able to do it.

Which you have.

Yeah, exactly. So I'm saying you're perfect for it.

Uh, 65,000 people on my email list are almost all buyers. You're going to make so much money.

Yeah, this is this is what I would do. I've seen this happen so many times. I would start at like 12 grand. I know you can't bill it through school, but that doesn't matter.

Um.

And it does matter.

Trying to win this.

Yeah, but what's more important.

For the big loan?

I think that that like being able to contribute that data that long-term for the personal brand is more important.

Oh, you want to win. Got it. Well, you could do a month. You could do $9.99 a month, but have them sign something that says it's a 12-month commitment.

That would that would rack up even more.

But so, the reason why I'm feeling a little bit hesitant and I know it's a difference in the experience, but I'm already doing weekly Q&As and I'm already doing Zoom calls.

It's the in person. That's literally like that's the difference.

And exclusivity as well.

What? You don't think it's valuable enough? Is that your concern?

Yeah.

Uh, you're silly. It's the in person. Honestly.

It's the in person.

That's it. And the other people in the room. If everyone else in the room is doing 20 grand.

Yeah.

Or more.

And they're sitting in a room with you.

They're all going to be talking about this, the problems at their level. And so it's going to be way more relevant. But like.

That's true because with the when I'm doing the Zoom calls with my communities, like once a month I'm doing where they are on Zoom with me and every week I do live Q&A. It's like two to four hours. And then when I'm doing the open doors mentoring, I'm like four, five, six hours sometimes on because I want everybody to have the questions answered, but not everybody wants to stick it out right till it's their turn. And a lot of people are in the still like in the beginning stages, right? Or they're not making so much progress.

So, just to show you how easy it is to make it work for like to make 12 grand worth it for someone, I would realize this in my mastermind. I would say, "If you want to get an ROI on your investment," and mine was 36 grand, "the first thing you need to do is send this email to Stripe and you'll get your fees reduced to this percent." And I was like, "There you go. Now it's free." And then I was like, "The second thing you can do is go through your expenses and I bet you're paying a lot to Wistia. I bet you you're paying a lot to this." And I was like, "Here's what you can use instead of Wistia." Saved a guy like 50 grand. And then, you know, you can just, just through the expense savings and the fee savings in the very first.

I mean, a lot of people what they're doing with their tool stack and with their VAS is like madness.

It's so easy when someone's making 20 grand a month, it's so easy to help them make.

12. You have to improve their business by 5%.

Yeah.

I think you can do that. I would not join the Q&As's with the beginners because I don't want to listen to them. And if there was a group with people at the similar level, I'm so interested. I want to be at all because I want to listen. You're the last person who has to worry about giving value. And it's kind of one of those difficult ones where it's like the people who are like, "Oh yeah, it's totally worth it." Like there's the ones that we'd be like, "Dude, you need to give value." And the people who are always worried about giving value are never the ones that were worried about giving value. It's just one of those. You're fine. And remember, these people are coming on a Zoom call and have to wait hours to get their answer, but fundamentally they're getting fractional access. They're getting really distant access from you for a a split second and they have to pay tremendous cost in order to get their question answered.

Yeah, these people.

I mean, I also time stamp for them if they can't make it live. I would to sell the first few. Like don't make a public announcement. Like I would just go for your most successful people, DM them and get on a Zoom with them.

And just tell them what you're thinking about doing and see if they're interested.

And tell them the first person who buys when you make it live.

Because you're just trying to get five or six people together right for the. And then you've got yourself a mastermind.

Oh, that's it.

To no, for it to really be a mastermind. You don't want to like do the public announcement and have the fear that no one might buy and someone has to go first kind of thing. So that's why I do it privately behind the scenes. Get the good people in and now I'm like, "Okay, this is a good crew." Do the first event because your nerves will be the highest before your first event. But after you've done your first event, then you'll be like, "Good, right? Because you've done it now and you know your customers were happy and you know that they liked it." That's when you do your first promotion, the moment after you finish your first event, because you can use that and the photos and stuff of the people there and the stories of the people there to do your first promotion for your mastermind.

And if you get your five best people and you say, "So and so, so and so, so and so, so and so are in it. I'm accepting a few more." Then it's like the first person's already walked across. They're also the biggest people in the community. Everyone's like, "I want to be like them." Like all of that stacks together. But you really can just have the group two or three meetups a year and that's it. I honest, I wouldn't do anything else.

Yeah. I just did weekly call.

And then like three events a year.

And then that call is going to be small and it's only going to be the people who are, you know, the the mastermind attendees and they're going to they'll be stoked for that call because it's like all the people they know and they're all asking higher level questions. It's just a mindset shift that you're not giving like a course or the knowledge or something, but.

You are. You're just doing it in person and recording. Yeah.

You're going to you're going to make so much money.

You're going to, you pro it's very likely that you'll make more revenue from this than everything else you do.

100 sales, 5K, 500K. You can do that a month or two month.

Yeah. Well, I think it's possible over the course of 12 months to get up to a hundred people.

I feel like she'll do it. No.

But you've got to be careful going too fast with the group and stuff like.

Cuz sometimes you get one person in there and they can really ruin it.

Yeah, but I've learned to refund out like if somebody is not a good fit, I've learned to do that.

Yeah, but that means you're doing all the calls then. Well, eventually you're going to have other people doing the calls and they might not be.

In the last two month.

Well, I mean, the sales.

Sales calls for.

Oh, sales calls.

Yeah. Um, but even if you got up to 100 people over 12 months, that's still pretty good. And then you can you could also just go slower but raise the price because I used to teach people how to do this and I most of them would start about 12, then they'd go like 16, 18, 20, 24, 30ish and they'd go up from there. Um, and yeah, getting 100 people in. It's just very where it makes up where it's really impressive is in its profit margins because you have no cost per acquisition because these people are coming out of your, they're your existing customers. There's like no cost of delivery and it's it's very effortless to do and after every event I got something I could take and use and it would make me more in the front end as well, right? So, it'll do wonders for your profit. It could add like one to two mil profit on top of what you're doing. Yeah.

You will sell so many. You have 65,000 buyers. You've been providing value for like how many years you've been doing this?

Four years. You'll make you're gonna make so it's it's you if you wanted to fill a hundred tomorrow, you could probably send one email and and fill the whole thing tomorrow. Seriously. I don't like I don't even think you'd have to even make a pitch. You could probably just send an email be like, "These are the five things I'm doing. If you want in, let me know." You could probably even just send them straight to the thousand about page. It's still probably going to hurt them.

We'll see. I think you wildly underestimate how much good you have.

Doing it in private though, cuz you your confidence to do the public launch when you already have six people in will be so much higher.

I mean, like six people I have already just from the people I kind of business partnered up with, you know, because I'm now helping them behind the scenes. So I would want to have them as guests anyways because they can contribute so much from.

Their business, like what we're doing. We need customers, not it's easy to get guests. No, but from like how you would seat that community.

No, it's more about your confidence when you haven't made a sale of something you. I can take action despite. I know you can take action, but there will still. I'm telling you, I've seen this happen so many times. Like once you already have. It's like me testing that Cybertruck thing. I had tested it a lot before I let it go out, 'cause there's risk in there. 400 grand.

Right? What if it just flops? Um, I had a lot of confidence in it because I'd done a private kind of test, right? Um, that's all I'm saying.

Yeah. Sweet. Yes.

I wanted to get into content. So, cool. I realized, um, not realized, um, you structure all your videos on just value, value, and I know social proof is also something that's very needed. And because of your brand being so large, large, you yourself are your own social proof.

Sure.

So for people who don't have as much social proof as you, how would you advise them to, um, structure their content in a way that's still appealing to the common algorithms but still can convert? I don't think that the, because when I started, I didn't have like the proof that I had was the what I had done, not my following.

Accolades. Yeah. Like what I had done. And when I started my gym content, it was like I had six gyms.

So you need, you think you need some baron of, um.

Do something cool.

Yeah. And then be like, have a look at this. My my first approach was, um, what they just call just basic Lamborghini marketing. You know, just like.

Pretty much almost selling a lifestyle. But the problem is.

It's just makes you look like an [ __ ] after a certain amount of time. There's a reason you've never seen me with a Lamborghini.

Or a.

Yeah, this building doing something cool. That's just faking owning a Lamborghini.

Veggie. Well, if you, if it's not yours, then yeah, that's fake. And if it is yours, also whatever, because the thing like I, again, somebody watching me drive a Lamborghini isn't valuable to them, or at least to the audience that I'm trying to go for. And so I want business owners. And so I make stuff for business owners. And if I'm going to make a video about sales, for example, it'd be one thing to say, I own businesses. They make lots of money. I'm going to talk about sales. That would be like one level of proof. But in the videos, I talk about sales. I say I close 4,000 one-on-one sales. Personally, we do $250 million a year. Uh, 80% of our sales go through sales teams. And so I can share six things that will help you make your sales more profitable. People are like, "Well, fuck." Okay. And then the first one I give, you know this because you do, you make content. The first one's [ __ ] heat. And they're like, "Oh my god." And then the second one's heat and they're like, I got to watch this whole thing.

You sold your business before you started making content, right?

Well, the the big like for.

Yeah.

That was the key thing.

100%. That's why I did it.

Yeah. So, do something cool.

And when I, and to be fair, when I was making Gym Launch content, um, I just, I just gave value to to gym owners. I was like, "Hey, change your billing like this. Hey, set up your lobby this way. You'll get more deals. Hey, when you're doing sessions, do 45-minute sessions instead of 60. It closes the same, retains the same, but you can get four sessions in in 3 hours." Like, it's just like all the stuff that I knew from trial and error at my gyms that made me more money.

Guessing just focusing on, um, virality. 'Cause my common structure for my videos and when I first started, like my first video that wasn't just like a flex edit, um, blew up. It did like 3.4 million views. I got 90,000 followers from that one video. That video probably made like 170,000 alone. And it was, um, just me talking inauthentically, very authentic, sorry. And then I was just like, you've seen this, you've seen this, you've seen this. And I just show how. So it was kind of begging the question, but, um.

What, what had they seen?

Well, it was just, I was replying to a on TikTok. They said, "How is bro so rich?" And I was just like.

What were the flashy things they were saying? Were they, were you showing them some cool [ __ ]?

A lot of YouTube awards.

YouTube awards are legit. I mean, that's like you've gotten these views, you've gotten these subs.

That's like Homzi selling his company. Yeah. And then making a video, right? Because it's like, look, I did this and now I'll tell you how. It's kind of like the same structure as what you're saying your best video did, right?

Yeah. But I can't use that structure over and over and over.

I do it in every video. I can explain why. So, proof, promise, plan is the, we do this with every single video. Um, and the reminder is that anybody who knows me doesn't mind that I take 8 seconds to say that. Anybody who's new has no idea who I am. And so for them, it's the first time they've heard of me, and so they need to hear the proof. So that's why we say it in every video because we make our, we make our content for cold audience because the whole point of content is to get more people. And so I assume that no one knows who I am, what I do, or anything like that. I think that's good. I just, I really focused on that. I mean, I know cold traffic is how you build new people, but it's like I also want to like appeal to the people I already have. Like I don't want to lose them in the process.

But how did you get these YouTube awards before you could make this cool YouTube video?

I've been doing YouTube for 11 years.

Yeah. But how did you get all of the awards?

It was gaming, right?

Fortnite.

Gaming. Uh, I have a team channel. I have shorts channels. I have Minecraft channels, compilation channels. I had faceless stuff and also stuff with my face in it.

That's all proof. That's all that's proof.

Have you stopped doing some of that stuff?

Yeah.

Maybe don't.

I'm just thinking if it was really working, why stop?

This is kind of a branding issue because a lot of people when they, they see me, they look at my DMs, they like, they recognize me from like me and my past. And I feel like it's a good thing, like all publicity is good publicity. This really nice to have a recognizable face, but it's like, what exactly am I recognized for? The problem is I have so many different brands on so many different platforms that I'm known for something different. And so that's why I was just like, I need to cut back from everything I used to do and kind of make a new image for myself. But I'm not, I'm always battling. I'm like, is this a good thing or a bad thing that I'm known for?

That other stuff makes me way more interested in you. I might be unique. What does everyone else think? When you heard about the chess and the Minecraft channel and all of this, was it more interesting?

Yeah, it's a little goofy.

Why is it goofy?

I'm supposed to be like a.

Supposed to be, according to who?

Look up to, you know.

What's wrong?

I can trust him to help me make money.

What's wrong with playing Minecraft and making money?

Or chess?

Well, chess.

Yeah, dude. I think it's just be you, dude. I think you're bloody cool.

Yeah, maybe you've got this idea of what you, this professional businessman that you need to be. You know what I mean?

I get where you're coming from. I'll tell you this quick story that might make sense. So, when I, when I, right before I started Gym Launch, I was, I mean, I was a gym owner, right? And so, when I decided to do the turnarounds, um, and then transition to the licensing business, um, uh, a guy who makes significantly less money than me now, um, said, He said, "No one's going to take you seriously if you dress like a gym bro." And so I went and bought a suit for like $2,500 bucks, which was super expensive for me at the time, um, 'cause I just lost everything again. Um, and the only, I have one picture that I have in that suit, which some of you guys might have seen. I just always forget to take the [ __ ] picture down. It's like somehow like been spread all over my stuff. But after that, I was like, "This isn't me." I was like, "I'm just gonna talk to gym owners about gym shit." And I remember I had my first in-person meetup and a gym owner came up to me and he was like, "Dude, thanks for being one of us." And I was like, "What do you mean?" He was like, "I was just in this mastermind. This guy's wearing a $16,000 suit." And he's like, "And we don't even, you know, we don't even clear that in a month." He's like, "Just thanks for being, thanks for being real." And so at Gym Launch, the max that we could wear that I told our staff that we could ever dress up was a button-down. Like never a blazer. And for the most part, like even at Gym Con and things that we have now, the whole team just wears hoodies, like baseball t-shirts, just like really relaxed stuff because that's our audience. But they absolutely refer to us as the authority in the space because of what we say, but they relate to us because of how we look. I mean, I dress like this and I dressed like this when I had a thousand subscribers. And if someone was going to be like, "This guy doesn't know shit," then it's like, "Okay." But then other people were like, "Fuck, this guy looks like a big meathead, trashy dude. He's like between being a hick with his like flannel and his like faded hat and but also is like weirdly philosophical and very articulate." Uh, and so, but I think what happens there though, like so this is me giving you like some, some, some flowers here, is that the more you don't fit into a box, the more interesting you are. It's the juxtaposition between different things that creates the tension which creates interest. Like, like you've met plenty of people who are just NPCs, like they just live as like, oh, I'm a frat dude and all, and like I can, I can predict 100% of your behavior from the first 5 seconds of meeting you and I have zero interest in finding out more because I already know what's going to happen. So I have no curiosity. But if people are like, I wonder what he would say about that because they're like, is Homzi really liberal? Because I could kind of see that. But on the other hand, it's like, maybe he's super, super not. But like, they don't know, and that's what creates the interest is just because if you have chess and Minecraft and YouTuber and like these other elements, that's what like, that's what makes you interesting.

Minecraft and money sounds like a pretty cool combination. Honestly.

If you were just rich and [ __ ] around with Minecraft, do you know how many kids.

Yeah.

Dude, would be a killer offer actually. Like because it's fun and that's actually what they want to do. They want to make money, but they also want to have fun. So like, and that's a massive market, by the way, like people that play video games. It's enormous.

This other guy, he has a community because he makes Minecraft channels as well, and he's like, "I still can't find anything that pays more than running two Minecraft channels."

That's fine, dude. I think if you just like, just state the facts and tell the truth, just be like, "Hey, uh, I'm good at a bunch of different things and I've been really confused about what I was going to make my channel about. So, I'm just gonna talk about the [ __ ] I'm interested in. Hopefully, if you're interested in that stuff too, you'll like it."

Most appreciated, man.

Seriously, I think I think plenty of people will find you probably more interesting than all of the other things you've done before this combined. Yeah, that could unlock because you see, remember how you said you peaked like in '19? This could start another peak.

Numbers. I have more news articles than.

Whatever. But like you, but the thing is, is you'll access all these different clusters of audiences. Like the reason Rogan is so big is because if you like, like fighting, then you also like Rogan stuff. If you like comedy, you like Rogan stuff. If you like biohacking, you like Rogan stuff. But like, if someone would be like, "What's Rogan's brand about?" I don't know. It's just Joe Rogan. It's the stuff he [ __ ] with. He likes aliens. He likes conspiracy theories. He likes, I mean, he does, he like, what's his channel about? I don't know. It's about whatever Joe's interested in. He's very unapologetic about it. And so I think when you said like, supposed to, I would just completely eliminate that from your vocabulary. Like, should what? Supposed to, according to whom?

Yeah. How many people just talk about business and that's all they talk about and it's boring as [ __ ] Dude, most of the people who try to like compete for the same space as I do is they're so afraid of showing any kind of vulnerabilities, failures, weaknesses, anything like that, and they feel like they have to appear a certain way in order to be respected. But then you just look like NPC business bro. Like they have the same haircut, they wear the same suits, they wear the same watches, they have the same interests, their wife looks the same. It's the same [ __ ] Seriously, it's the same [ __ ] And then there's half of them that are clean-cut, but the more the the more recent ones are like they get full sleeves, but they get them in their 40s because they think that's what hardcore business bro needs to look like, but they rock the Rolex. It's the same [ __ ] thing because they think that that's what they're supposed to do and that's why they'll never win.

Yeah.

Wow. Just my two cents. Ted takes up his Rolex over there eating bananas. Keep going. I'm just [ __ ] with you, dude.

So, I have a question about like how to grow your audience like while maintaining the quality. 'Cause if he were to show like his Minecraft side, he might attract like people who actually are watching Minecraft, in which they probably won't buy his like consulting or coaching product. So, my thing is like, yeah, I'm trying to grow my YouTube channel, but I want to target business owners or people who are trying to make money online and get clients from posting organic content.

I'm in the same boat.

How can I grow my channel while maintaining quality, but also showing my other interests as well?

So, I think, um, I had this simple analogy, but like the core thing that you're trying to attract, like your avatar, if it's business people, right? Then the main thing of every video has to be about business. But you can still sprinkle the other pieces in into the video. So if I'm talking about Laila as my business partner, then it's about business. But obviously be some trickle in of marriage. If I bring up fitness, but it's going to be within the context of the fact that like, as a business owner, I'm busy and I have to optimize my time. And I think for me, if I have more energy, it's helped me out in making more money. But I'm tying everything to the core. If I make fitness first, which is when I made like Mosy Meals and I did that whole thing, I got tons of people. And so if I wanted to go wide, like we, like we could absolutely rock out 2 million view videos two times a week for sure. I feel like incredibly confident right now with the team I have, we could do it. All I would do is brutally honest advice to younger men, and that would be it. And I would just do those, and they just, they just smash, right? But none of them are business owners who are trying to scale their companies from 10 to 100 million and beyond. So it's not a good audience for me. I make those sporadically just because like I build up some and I'm like, [ __ ] it, I just need to make this. But for the, for to serve my business, five out of six videos, which I think was what we agreed on, uh, internally. So like, five out of six videos are all business, and then I do one that's like, whatever I feel like doing.

Yeah. So I broke like, I have a, one of my videos that people keep telling me like, "Oh, that's why I booked a call." Yeah.

Was me breaking down your content into top of funnel, minimal funnel, and bottom of funnel content. So you'd go like broad, you'd be like, "13 Brutally Honest Business Advice," and that would get like 7 million views or something. Then you go middle of funnel where it's like, "My Schedule," and then bottom of funnel is like, "How to Do Cold Email."

Schedule be wider, though. But yeah.

Yeah.

So it sounds like you already made a video about what you should do.

Yeah. Yeah.

Watch your own video. I don't have like 13 years of business knowledge.

Broke it down in 13 minutes.

So, dude, here's, here's, okay, I want to break this for you. So, either you accomplish big [ __ ] and you talk about what you did, or you do big [ __ ] and talk about you did. So, like, I could say, look, I've got this big experience and that's what makes the content interesting because every single piece of content from the educational perspective is compression of time. That's it. The reason people buy education in general is so that they can save the time of learning it on their own. That's why they have somebody else who teaches them. And so the idea is you want to give them exceptional value per second of time. So if I watch a 10-minute video, it saves me two hours. And you keep stacking that until eventually you take what would have taken you 10 years and you do it in six months. And like that's why education works and that's why it's valuable. It's fundamentally a packaged unit of time. And so if it's a packaged unit of time and you can't use your accomplishments as the proof, then you do work that other people don't want to do. So you say, "Hey, I, uh, spent 30 hours reviewing 200 ads and these were the things that the best ads had in common." So it's just take you just have to take a shitload of work and then compress it and then give it, and then that's what people want to do. Evelyn's like, "Hey, I ran these ads. This is what happened." So people don't have to risk the money and the time of running the ads, putting the campaigns together, and then they watch the content because it compresses all the time she did to, uh, to a smaller video. The reason it benefits Evelyn is because she does it one time and then a million people can see it. And so there's leverage on both sides, but you always have content to, you always have things to make content about because you have your life and the things that you've done and you have the things that your customers have done. So you can compress those as case studies. Like a lot of the videos that I have are just like, "Hey, this is the thing that our portfolio company did and it made them a lot of money. Check it out." So that was zero time for me. My team goes. So Michael goes, talks to my portfolio team. Michael's right there. So Michael talks to portfolio team and he's like, "Hey, did we do any cool implementations this month?" And so they said, "Yeah, we did this in this company, this in this company." He's like, "I don't know if that'll be good YouTube content." "Oh, that'll be good. Let's do that." And so then he does a deep dive with them, goes on the phone for an hour or two, gets all the metrics, all the stats, all the implementation. He outlines the video, and then when we go record, he's like, "All right, we're going to talk about the onboarding that we did with Company X." And I'm like, "Cool, let's rock." And so then that's the video because it saves anybody who's about to build an onboarding process years.

Good morning. I saw that video and you were like separating sales from client success and you're like, "Just look."

Definitely don't do that.

Definitely don't do that.

I'm joking. You should do that. Yes.

Yeah. I meant like, what, what I, what I took from it was like all the data. You're like, "Oh, well, you can track client success as well." And I was like, "Oh."

Good. Yeah.

Yeah. How do you go about showing versus telling in terms of like showing your results at the start of the video? Especially like maybe back in the day when you didn't have Acquisition.com or something like that.

Really? The majority of my business didn't have Acquisition.com.

Okay. But would you just verbally say, "I own six gyms"? Show.

I said I own six gyms.

Okay. Okay.

I guess, I guess fair enough.

No, I'm serious. Like, I own six gyms. But the thing is, is like if I said that and then what I said afterwards was just dog [ __ ] no one cares either. But I said that and then I was like, "Here's all the things we did. We had managed multiple locations. Here's how I ran my sk my manager schedules." And anybody who hears that is like, [ __ ] He knows what he's talking about.

Because it's the details.

I have a 400-page book on how to run a gym.

So then everything, yeah, that you say is believable.

Yeah. 'Cause I did it. It's like, "Here's how you set up the lobby." Because when you set up this way, which I tried, it didn't work. And I set up this way and it didn't work. When you set up like this, this is what gets more people. By do stuff. Talk about what you did. You had your hand raised. No.

He's had his hand up for so long.

Dude, it's 'cause you're being so cool about it. You're just like throwing.

You have your finger raised.

Ty question.

For the Proof Promise Path. Yeah. Or Plan.

Um, is it the exact same for every video?

The what?

And then also, is it like the very beginning of every video? Is like you say.

You want to talk about this 'cause I feel like.

You've been customizing it. So, we did a sales video. The proof was specific to Ali's sales experience. If we're talking about how many portfolio companies do onboarding, talk about the importance of customer success. Um, if we don't think that it's super easy to compress, we'll also do a lower third. Syllabus has text that says "$250 Million Annual Revenue Portfolio," full life story description, and they can read more down there. We tried stretching it more than 30 seconds. We started losing people. So we shoot for 15 and under.

Yeah, 15 and under for the whole intro before the first point gets brought in the video. Oh, dude, everybody, I feel like everyone's intros. Like, no one. Like, I, I saw this, this guy made a video inside the School community and it was like, "How I Tripled My Conversion on School, My About Page," and I was like, "Oh, I'm interested to see this." Two and a half minutes in and I'm still waiting for him to actually explain. I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is going on here?" Just say what you did. So like, all he had to say was, uh, "I tripled my conversion rate on my about page. This is what I did. Number one." That's the, like, it could have been 4 seconds. People just take so long to like, say all this other stuff.

But I thought we were not supposed to do that.

What? Say what?

I'm not saying you're going to do that. And this is also a content versus an ad. I'm saying this is what I did.

But I thought you were supposed to hook them, not.

That is the hook.

It's the best.

You were not supposed to say the information until you get to the end so that they can stay in the whole thing.

They won't stay if you don't give them anything.

Yeah. You're If you look at, if you look at retention, most of you guys who do YouTube, like, you lose 70% of your people in the first 30 seconds.

Yes.

Right? If you do a really good job, you can keep 80% in by second 30. Like, we target 80. We try to keep 80% by the 30-second mark. That's like what we try to do.

I think the question is, a lot of YouTube people say, as soon as you say the point, people think, "I get this," and they click off. So you sell the value of the point. Then you tell a story.

This is the path. So this is the path. All right. Bring it back in. So if we, if we're saying, "Okay, I spent $5,000 on ads and I doubled my about page with six things." First thing.

But then if you say the first thing, the YouTube advice is people click off because they think, "I get it."

[ __ ] the advice.

Yeah, but most. You say the point, then you give examples. The advice is, you sell the value of the point. Sure.

Then you tell the story.

When I say point, like when I say point one, it's like point one begins, and then usually the way we do it is we'll have like a hammer. So like a very strong statement, uh, and then we'll have example or story or metaphor, and then we usually summarize it again with another hammer statement, which then opens the next one, and then we go through it.

I always like to try to invert the advice, like 'cause sometimes you just, it works and it works better than everyone else because it's unique, right? Like what we were talking about about what happened to offers.

And then just making it realistic. And.

Yeah. So sometimes I wouldn't always listen to the common advice.

'Cause if you make a video and it works, that is the best evidence you can get.

Dude, if it works, do the one that works better.

Like I would, the biggest things that, at least this is just from all the videos that we've made, is like, you have to have amazing packaging, which is the thumbnail and the headline. You want it to match what they clicked with what they immediately hear within the first 15 seconds, both visually and verbally. And then you want to get to the point. The whole click-off thing, I'm just like, so not even worried about that. Like, not even, like, I, it's so much more likely that just no one gets value and they get bored, then they think, "Oh, I've got this." But I think, I think the reality though is that some advice that people give though, like the other, the six points have to also be good. Like it, it also has to be good. Uh, and so like, I think we, we just recorded a monster sales video. You guys will check it out. It's going to be, I, it's going to destroy. U, but like, we actually had six stages of the video, and then within each stage, we had like 14 different points. So, it's like, "Cool, first thing, sales multipliers. You need to be selling seven days a week." And then people are like, "Well, why?" It's like, "Okay, well, if you sell five days a week, you're missing out on 29% of sales that could be happening every single year. And you're paying rent every single day. You're paying your sales guys every single day. And what happens is if you don't sell on weekends, then you book all of your appointments on Monday. Monday gets super stacked up and then you're really excited for Monday morning, but what happens? Show rates suck. And then all of a sudden, you're like, "Oh, these show rates are blowing. What's going on?" And then Tuesday starts to pick up a little bit better. and then Wednesday you're like, "Okay, this is gonna be a good week." Uh, but then it's Friday. Friday's bad show up rates again. Up. Saturday, Sunday, no sales. So instead of that, be open on Saturdays and Sundays and especially be open later in the afternoons because if you're dealing with consumers or people who work 9 to 5, then you need to be available when they're available to spend money. And if you're not, somebody else will. And so it's like, point one. Okay, great. Point two also like, and then you just go into the next one. But like, if the first thing I said was like, "What's like a really tried piece of advice for sales?" I don't know.

Give value first.

Huh?

Give value first.

Yeah. If I was like, "Cool, if you want to sell more, like give value." If I said that, people would be like, "What?"

Yeah. And it's also, honestly, the, the, the value of the videos is in the examples and the details. It's not in like the point. Like the point's usually one sentence, and then the rest of it selling the point that you just made. Go ahead.

This is very Midwood, as he would say, but.

You said your target, like 30 per second or 30-second, like viewer rate is 80%.

Yeah, we try to obviously, but once a video smashes, then it's going to it's going to go down because it's going broad. So I, like, I wouldn't get super obsessed with. What are the metrics you like look for that will like tell you if you're going to have like a video that smashes?

Honestly, I don't even want to give it to you because I think it will not help. It won't change your behavior in any way. So, I think rather than saying that, like the things that make good videos are tight as [ __ ] intros and clear road map of what is going to happen. Like we visually display the road map behind me when I say we're going to make these six points or 12 points. People see the road map and either we have it on a poster board because we printed out a physical version, or we just do it digitally with VFX. um, visual effects. Um, and then we get into point, and every, every point always has, uh, we, we try to get either an example or a story with every point. And the thing that does well for us is we just tell personal anecdotes. Now, the fortunate thing I have is like, and many of you guys here have customers, so you can tell stories of customers, not just your own stories. They still are relevant, will still edify you, and that works fine. But if you're like, "How do I make endless content?" Like, you just talk about what happened the last week, and like life continues to happen. And so you always have news. You just. So like the news is the most viral stuff, right? If you just like are a trend hopper and talk about what's new. Just take that same idea, but just talk about your news, like what's new with you? What, what is new that happened?

Now we're talking about, uh, content. I have multiple questions around this topic. YouTube. Um, I'm just starting out with YouTube, just starting out, but I notice indeed like YouTube is the highest leverage to bring in the customers, especially to the School community. I would, I, I would wish that I did it way before, but, um, I, I want to build a small team around the YouTube. But I really noticed like once I outsource like the scripting, for example, it's terrible to do because then your whole intonation, everything is off. Like everything is off. When you just started off with YouTube, when is.

I've never outsourced scripts, I think.

No. What? Do you still do it yourself? Or is it.

Yeah.

I don't script anything though.

So.

I did bullets.

Yeah, bullet points, actually.

I have bullets.

Yeah. And, um, you switched from like these over-edited videos to like more talking head and just a little bit phys, like visual effects. What was the biggest change? Why you did this and what was the effect from it?

So, is the difference? So, this was a, actually a really hard lesson for me to learn, which is like VidSummit, I think, um, in some ways is like, um, basically the vast majority of people that people look for for like YouTube and content advice are entertainers.

And so, their advice, in my opinion, just doesn't really apply to educators. Now, the big chunked up stuff, it like, you need click-through rates, you need retention rates. That absolutely applies. But there are so many things that I was advised from all the biggest YouTubers, all the ones you guys have heard of. And maybe it was an execution, uh, mistake on my part, which is possible, but like Proof Plan has just been like the way to do it. And the best education videos, like there's so many videos on, um, on there's like, "How to Do Calculus," and it's like a 20-minute video on how to do like Calculus Chapter 1, and it's got 20 million views, and it's just a dude in front of a whiteboard, but he's so tight with, and he just did the best job at explaining calculus. And so I just realized that for me, it was all about again, the value per second. And for my audience, for business owners, they were all good with that. Now, I do think that there's, there's the difference between, so entertainment, the point of entertainment is to get someone to continue to watch it. That is the objective of entertainment is to get them to keep watching. The point of education is to get someone to change their behavior, which is different. And so, it would make sense that the, the stuff internal to the content is different because they have different objectives.

But did you see, for example, an decrease in views, but an increase indeed in retention and more sales?

So, in the beginning when we made the switch back, yes. But now the way that we control it is the RPMs is what I use as my quality metric for this video is for business owners and is getting people who have lots of buying power. And once I know that my RPM is, for us, it's like if it's over $35, I'm cool. Um, then I know. Now I still want to juice the living hell out of the views. Like my number one video on my channel has $67 RPMs and.

Yeah. And.

Uh, 3.8 million views. So it has the highest views and the highest revenue per per watcher. And so when I saw that, I was like, this is absolutely possible that you can get a video that all business people get value from.

Yeah.

And it's a video on leverage.

Yeah. Because I, I struggle with indeed like the entertainment content gets like the highest amount of views. Like it's like a point of view video.

But the revenue is so low.

It's so low, while I do indeed like the, not, not the entertainment, but just like telling like, "Hey, this is the six steps to make a dropshipping store successful." Sure. The lowest views, but the most amount of sales are coming just from it.

But I still build like the character with the, the entertainment more. Like people like, "Oh, I did not know that you were like living in Portugal."

And.

You can say that in your six steps video.

Yeah.

Like, for example, I live in Portugal. It's amazing. Ah, anyways. And then you go into it. Like it doesn't need to be long. You can still tie your personal elements into the videos.

So, and the transition to making a team. So, that's maybe the main question. You don't outsource, for example, the, indeed, the scripting. You still come with the ideation, or is that what you.

It's a little bit of combo at this point. So like Michael will come and be like, "Hey, here's." So the team will have a bunch of ideas of like.

A lot of it's actually more like formats of like, "This is a tested format."

And then, uh, it's like, "This is something only the pros know." That would be like a format that's done well. And we'd be like, "Okay, well, then can we do that for like for marketers? Like, only that is this is only something that professional marketers know. This is something only professional sales people know. Something only CS knows, whatever it is." So, like, we just look at pre-tested formats. And then Mike will usually present like two or three. And then I'll say, "I'm [ __ ] with this one right now." And so, uh, and then we'll hammer out an outline, uh, for the video. And then Michael goes and kind of like beefs it up a little bit in terms of like, he'll pull stats, he'll get data, he'll talk to my team, whatever. And so then when we get to the actual day, I wish you had the, the, the blueprint one so they could see how much work goes into.

Yeah. Do you have it?

You want to grab it? Um, but it's, uh, but it's just bullets though. So we know like the intro is the intro is the only thing we script.

Yeah.

Because it's the most important.

Dude, we spent 90 minutes.

Really?

Yesterday on 15 seconds.

Yeah. The funny thing is, my latest video from like a few days ago, indeed, I spent a lot of time.

Because we had a prop that was rolling in and we had something else at the same time and I was delivering a line. It was a lot.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It is. It is. You notice like if you pay attention, that's where the money flows as well, of course. Then I noticed like paying attention to indeed the hooks, the intro, and just the g, the plan, indeed, in the promise that works. It works way better. So I was like, "Oh [ __ ] this is something I don't outsource because then people are like, "Yeah, this could maybe work." I'm like, "No, no, you, we need to know that this will work because we need to make the promise and the plan."

If you're an expert, then somebody who's just going to script write for you is going to like ChatGPT and then your points are going to be generic and then they're not going to be valuable. So, like, you have to just bring up the trench knowledge that you have learned that people don't know and then people are like, "Oh, wow. This guy really knows his shit."

I hate script writers because the thing is, a script writer doesn't know how you think and they don't know more than you.

Yeah. Which is why they're not making a video themselves. So, it's really hard for me to like find a script writer I can trust on anything besides just the intro.

Yeah. And not, not even that, but you don't even have to put in the words yourself. So, you're just speaking someone else's words. Like I even noticed like I talk.

Because then you're an actor. And to me, I'm like, "That's not what my."

Like I'm acting. Like that's that's terrible. That's very terrible.

Yeah. Teleprompters, all that stuff, like not, not my vibe.

I just know what the points are. I know like, I, it's my life. I know what happened, you know.

So on the research, on the research side, you say like, okay, that's good to have someone in that does the ideation of formats like, "Hey, I saw this one going viral."

Thumbnail, headline, packaging, that stuff is where team research is really good. Um, and so that that's really been it. It's like we pick the big, like they bring me a few. I say, "I like this one." Then we outline like a rough outline of like, "This is how I think this should go." Michael goes beefs up the outline with more stories, more stats. You know, he then thinks, "Oh, is there a prop that I could bring into this like for this scene? Is there a prop I could bring in here to make this make this visual?" Um, here. All right. So, this video, just to give you an idea, that's what we did yesterday. This is one video. So, it's like, here's the packaging ideas. This is the inspos. This is the video that like the two videos that are both our videos that did really well. So, we're like, "Okay, we'll do more of that." This is the, these are this is our prop list of all the things that Michael had to go get for the video. Then he has this checklist and part of this is like editor stuff of like, "Okay, lower third as soon as Alex comes on founderacquisition.com blah blah blah." And it's like, "Okay, so this is our, this is the road map. So, we have our visual, this is our plan, right? So, intro was behind me is the blueprint to making your first million dollars. And I'm going to walk you through all the steps even if you're starting at zero." That was it. And then we had a a box of cash that had notches up to a million and I had a dollar. So I had to like wheel the box in. I dropped the dollar in. All of that kind of coordinated at the same time. And then it's like the, so then we go right into it. It's like, "Before any, before you can make your first million bucks, it's all about who you are because you're the asset that's going to make it. So let's start with that." And then that starts point number one. So within that it was like, okay, you have knowledge, you have skills, you have motivation, you have your environment. So how do we like decouple each of these things?

And this one you have close with you every time? Like you have it like somewhere?

Just. Yeah, it'll be around. Yeah. But like, there's no, there's no script here. It just says, "I, I read what it says. It says, 'Who you are. Why?' Let me explain." And that's it.

And I can explain it, right? And then the next is like, "Who you sell to." And so this is the overarching one. And it's like, this is props for just that first "who" section. So, making this video, like, how, how long did it take you to make the video itself?

This one was a monster. This took me all day.

All day.

In that in that intro, Alex, uh, you didn't really mention proof, did you?

So, I do. So, I, um, in this one.

We embedded it in the first point.

Yeah, that's what we did. We embedded it in the first point. So, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So, we did because that was a, a super tight intro. And then we put in "Who you are." And so it's like, so for me, I'm. And then I went into it, but it was like embedded in the first point.

So that's the proof in the first point. The opener was just purely, "Here's the plan."

So we basically went promise, plan, proof. So it's really like, we, when we looked at all of our videos, they had all three points, but they weren't always in that order.

Have you found a winning order?

No. Honestly, I just like when I look at the top 10 videos, they have all three, but they're not always. I mean, some of them are like, you know, "Want to hear something insane? I took home over a million dollars a year, sorry, a million dollars a month in personal income every single month since I was 26." It's like, that's a [ __ ] hook, but it's also proof.

Yeah.

It's like, and I think it's because I did some things differently than you or whatever. Yeah. So, I I I only want to show this because like you're not trying that hard. Like we we do better on YouTube because we try harder.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I was like, "Okay, not as an insult to you. I'm just saying."

No. If I want to get to that kind of stuff, like when one when is like the transition that you started to make like, "Okay, now now is the time to get more into this and get more into it because first of all, I don't have the time and maybe the budget to get like a team."

Sure. And honestly, when we started, it was it's not um it's always return on time like Sam was saying earlier. Like in the very beginning, I got so little and I also had little skill. um that I did shorts for one day every 90 days and then YouTube videos were just like between meetings I did webcams and that was it. That was that was my whole content strategy. And once that started working it's like you pour gas on the fire for things that do well because now the return on time keeps getting better and so I can allocate more and more time as it continues to do better and better because we make more from it. me.

Um, so like when you when we go back to when you first started promoting school, Yeah. you didn't have you didn't have everybody.

So you were saying, "Huh? What do you mean? I didn't we didn't have everybody. You didn't have proof of like people had made money yet." So you would say, "Hey, uh, give me your give me your email address and I'll send $1,000 to your inbox."

But you already have a brand yourself. So like Well, that was actually before we had the proof. That's exactly what we did.

Right. Right. Yeah. But for me, like I can't say, well, because I'm an investor in some big thing. So then if I if I'm just launching my networking group and I don't have You talk about the proof of the people in the network, but I don't have clients.

That's when you get your first five people in and you do it for free.

Okay. Like everyone, if you're going to start like do anything, you have to have proof. You can have the most amazing offer in the world, but if you have no proof, proof still wins. If you have a thousand five stars and the shittiest offer in the world, you'll sell more than somebody's amazing offer and zero customers.

Okay? And so you want to facilitate the getting customers by helping people out for free, getting testimonials. Now you have proof and then you market that proof. So then if I have not done it inside of my club, my network club, but I've done it throughout my life, then I can say I haven't done it in school, like the example you just gave. My my success has nothing to do with school. I didn't make my money on school.

Right. So but you gave $1,000 in value, right, for an email address. Like I mean that was like I mean basically people sell courses like this coaching community whatever for $1,000 or more. Sometimes five, sometimes $10,000. I will give you all of that for free and I'm more credible.

Right now I could lop off that last part and I'm more credible and still get plenty of people to sign up even if you didn't have a brand.

Yes.

Okay. Every single person who comes to school from an ad that doesn't know who I am signs up because of the ad. the quality of the ad, not who Hormosi is.

I just assume that all that all of us everybody knows me. It's not unfortunately or fortunately depending how we see it is not the case. Yeah.

Okay. So that's why we have to make banger ads.

Okay. Like I can make shitty ads and that works with warm audience. As soon as you go to cold, you have to make great ads. So we just try to make amazing ads with a brand and then you get the best of all worlds.

You think should you go Ted or you? What do you think? I don't know if that's true. I don't think you've ever had a short question. All right, Ted.

Yeah, you split test YouTube thumbnails using the YouTube split test feature, right?

Yeah. How do you split test the titles?

Um, I think we actually, you should answer this. Take a break from that because we were getting a lot from just thumbnails.

Yeah, there's a third party tool we used to use. We used to use TubeBuddy, but now we just use YouTube internally. problem with split testing headlines is it's different times. So they do one day and then the next day, but it's a different audience.

Yeah, that's what we realized. So it's like even the fine it's just basically it's like it gave us something to do, but it didn't actually help us at all. Whereas the YouTube Yeah, we only do the the pack the thumbnails because that's one two three one two three one two three. They just run it all the way through for you.

And when you're split testing thumbnails, can I ask a question on that? Are you trying to split test like three completely different thumbnails, but like how similar? I mean I think I mean we usually have different concepts.

Yeah. First variation is as different as possible and then once you get a winner you we'll do like one slight variation of the winner and then something totally different. We just like keep spinning them in. Damn.

Yeah. And that's especially true when like sometimes like you know when you have a video and you're like that was a heater and it doesn't do as well as you think. Usually we're like we [ __ ] up the packaging like this this and so we'll we'll put more into one that I'm like this should have been good. And sometimes we'll get we'll get like a 30-day later big pop.

And are you waiting seven days before you confirm results?

No, we just uh well, sometimes it'll confirm for you.

Yeah. Like within 24, 40 hours. Sometimes the test will just end. YouTube will just say this was statistically significant.

I think it's a bit of a there's a lot of it's such a wild west with the tool. Like they're changing so many things about that thumbnail tester. Um, yeah, look at making it better.

I I think that for us the big like the big lifts that we've had have been word concision in the first 15 seconds like that. Like what are the biggest things that like uplifted our like my channel and everything was word concision in the intro? Making sure that the first big bullet that I was going to give was going to be the best of if I have six things, you put the best one first.

Um, and you tell them to stay till the end. I don't I actually don't think I ever say stay till the end. I think people make a decision. It's like say like I never tell people to subscribe. They'll just subscribe if they think it's good. Um and then uh what would you say the big like and obviously like focusing on education rather than just like entertainment. What would you say other big things?

So because um you are at this level now we found that him telling stories of his earlier days when he had less money kept the retention curves flatter. It was like, I made this mistake or here's how I lost this amount of money doing that. It's more relatable.

Which also goes counter the whole like you have to, you know, flash everything or whatever. Like people want somebody who relates to where they're at right now.

Yeah. And the audience is bigger as well. Like how many people do you find that are making more money than you or making less money than you?

So that's I'm not the guy who told me to get a suit. Should have said it.

All right. What's your question? So your ad writing process is or scripting process is similar to that or it's the same

um much smaller. I mean ads are so much easier

but like ads are so easy. You go with the bullets and like the

we start with the hooks. We write down like so what we do is like Austin who runs uh school ads. So if you guys are good with it, we actually have the Cybertruck here. We can do some ads together if you guys are good.

Yeah, we should do that in like three minutes.

Oh, we'll do it in three minutes. So or now?

Let's do it now. [ __ ] it. We're going now.

Yeah, I'd rather that than Daniel's question. I think this was a net benefit for everybody.