bible reads & 20 Sit Ups

When he comes over, his teeth get smaller. I can't stand this verse. I'm not vain. I'm not subjected to vanity. I have a free will.

>> Hey Jill, are you still there?

>> Oh, yeah. The other day, uh, JG came over and he and I had a monumental discussion. I asked him to explain his worldview because in all these, uh, years of chatting with him, he's beat me up for my so-called worldview. Uh, but he has never explained to me his worldview. So, I got him to to explain his worldview. And it was kind of interesting and kind of sweet. He said that his worldview consists of all things start with God. And then somehow gingerly he said all things end with God. Okay. So like God is the alpha and omega, right? The first and the last, right? And I said, well, okay, Jill, I mean JG, I get you guys mixed up all the time, right? I said, 'J, if God is the first and the last, is he also the middle?

And then he started grinding his teeth again and kind of fell apart. He wouldn't admit that God is the middle. God is the first and the last. But he couldn't grasp that God would be the middle. And it seemed to me that if God is the first and the last, he must also be the middle. Romans 11:36 says that all is out of God, through God, and for God. So God would be the middle as well. But if he cannot admit that God is the middle, then there must be some other creative force that's going on in the middle because God is not the middle. And we can he and I in our discussion we kind of agree that God is the beginning and the end and chaos is in the middle. So is God the chaos as well. But and he wouldn't commit to that. You see he wouldn't commit that God is the middle and this chaos in the middle is of God. And so by not committing to that, he's kind of saying surreptitiously in between the lines that there's two creative forces out there, a good creative force and a evil creative force, and the good God began it all and will end it all, but there's this creative force in the middle that creates chaos, evil, you know, sin, condemnation, death, and all that stuff. But God has nothing to do with the middle part, I guess. Well, he does. He He's permissing. It's It's his permissible will.

>> Well, maybe you should tell you should tell Mr. JG that God is the middle.

>> He's permitting the Yes. He's allowing this to occur.

>> He's the beginning purpose. Yeah.

>> He's the alpha and omega. He's the beginning and the end. And he is the middle as well.

>> I'm sure I'm sure JG would agree with that.

>> You are sure? Well, I'm not sure because I had a discussion with him. So, could you go over and pass him the memo that God is the middle?

>> God is the middle. Well, that that's amig ambiguous again. Um, but but you brought up um Jesus's statement. Why are you quoting from the gospel of the quote unquote circumcision in the first place? Matthew 19. Are you quoting from Jesus?

>> Because it's my privilege to

>> Okay. So you get the quote from the gospel of the circumcision when you think it actually comports to your values or your ideas and what the Bible teaches.

>> For to vanity for to vanity was the creation rejected against its will.

>> Run away. Okay. Matthew 19 says Jesus makes the statement many who are first will be last and many who are last will be first.

>> Mhm.

>> So,

>> okay.

>> So, what do you take? What do you take of that?

>> He is the alpha and omega. He is the first and the last.

>> But what about those who are first?

>> He is the first and he is the last. He is the alpha and omega.

>> Well, this is speaking about salvation. I don't know what it's speaking about, but I do know that he is the first and the last. He is the alpha and omega and to vanity was the creation subjected against its will.

>> Many who are first in this life will be last. You can rephrase Jesus's words.

>> No, he uh God is the first and God is the last. He is the alpha and omega and there is nothing else. There is only God. God is the first and God is the last. And therefore God must be the middle. For to vanity was the creation subjected not voluntarily but because of him who subjects it in expectation that the creation itself also shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Isn't that something Jill?

>> Isn't that glorious? The glorious freedom of the children of God. Wouldn't it Won't that be glorious to enter into the glorious freedom?

>> Mhm.

>> And isn't it glorious that God's grand goal starts with entering creation into vanity? He makes sure that we're going to have a full appreciation of the glorious freedom of the children of God by making sure that we are quite acquainted with vanity against our will.

>> Okay. So, so earthly rank will not automatically translate to salvation. So, if you're great on the earth, you're a great king. Um, you're you have you have a great empire, va massive empire, that doesn't mean you're going to be first in the kingdom of God. And likewise, u just because you're poor,

>> he is the alpha and omega. He is the beginning and the end. And it wouldn't be much to do a hop, leap, and a jump to say he is the middle. Romans 11:36 says that all is out of him and through him and for him. Rejoice.

>> Yeah, we're past that. We're past that.

>> No, we're not past that. There. There's no past that. That is all.

>> Well, now we're talking about

>> um the rich young sacrifice.

>> God, Jill. All is of God.

>> Okay. The young rich ruler was not willing to give up much of anything for Christ's sake.

>> So for to was the creation subjected against its will because of him who subjects it in expectation that the rich young ruler himself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Cool, huh? So did did Peter leave left everything? Did he leave everything to follow Christ? Did he choose to do that?

>> For to vanity was Peter subjected not voluntarily but because of him who subjects it in expectation that Peter himself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God. Amen.

>> Amen.

>> Yeah. I I would actually conclude that uh Judas was subjected.

>> Oh my god. That's right. Let me read it. For or to vanity was Judas subjected, not voluntarily, but because of him who subjects Judas, in expectation that Judas himself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

>> Did Judas do works?

>> Judas humanity against his will. Did Judas do of course we all are. Did Judas do works on the earth?

>> Judas was subjected to vanity against his will.

>> Sure we all are. Did he did he specifically Judas? Did he do did he do good works while on earth? Did he heal? And

>> that is not my topic. You tell me. Did he do good works? Well, it is your topic because

>> No, my topic is that all of creation was subjected to vanity against its will.

>> Right. Right. God doesn't care about your works. It has nothing to do with works. That's the whole point.

>> That's the whole point.

>> It's him that brings us from that subjection, that vanity to life, not our works. That's why he tells the parable uh of the laborers in Matthew 20 right after he speaks to the rich young ruler.

>> The rich young ruler is subjected to vanity against his will. Isn't that something, Jill? Why? Oh, that's because of him who subjects it in his own expectation that the creation itself shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom.

>> And how is he going to free? Now, let's get into how he's going to free creation, which you don't want to talk about.

>> Oh, how is he going to

>> Colossians 1:20 says that it'll be through the blood of the cross that creation will be set free and reconciled.

>> Okay.

>> All of creation. How is he what is he going to do after he sets us free? What is he going to do with the non-believers?

>> He's going to set them free as well.

>> No,

>> because Colossians 1:20 says that the whole universe will be reconciled through the blood of the cross.

>> It sure will. But how will he reconcile the entire universe? By ridding it of evil.

>> That's right. He will rid it of evil. Evil people, evil spirits,

>> everything that is not of God, everything that's contrary to what God has willed

>> will be destroyed.

>> No,

>> that's how he's going to

>> absolutely changed.

>> Ah, now you got to show me that Ace. Oh, you can't. That's right. I've been here before. For to vanity was the creation

>> subjected against his will because of him who subjects it in expectation that the creation itself shall be changed shall be freed from the slavery of corruption.

>> Okay,

>> cool. They shall be freed from the slavery of corruption.

>> Good.

>> There are two ways I can free you. There are two ways I could free you from the slavery of let's say a rapist. Let's say a rapist is holding you hostage. I can come in and shoot him in the forehead.

>> A racist is

>> carry his body out of there and and erase every memory of his his existence ever in your head. Or I could come in and change his heart to whereby he doesn't want to rape you anymore and you can marry him and live happily ever after. Okay. Which one do you think God's going to do according to scripture?

>> He's going to free you.

>> Are they both free?

>> Slavery of corruption. Ace, are they both freed in in in either scenario? Are they both free?

>> Yes. So, Ace, you need to do more than just say that we will be freed or creation will be liber liberated.

>> You need to you need to explain how true

>> you are king of doubt. You doubt you doubt the work of God in the cross of Christ. and and therefore you were here defending the freewillers and you back to free will kind of hate this verse

>> that creation was subjected against its will. You kind of hate this verse. You JG hate Romans 8:20 and 21.

>> It will be subjected against its will again.

>> Some to eternal life, some to eternal destruction.

>> No, no, no. You see, they're going to be freed from the slavery of corruption. And if you are a student of Paul, you might understand that corruption has to do with these mortal bodies because this corruptible will put on incorruption and this mortal will put on immortality. And when that happens, Jill, we cannot sin again. We won't be a slave of vanity at that time when this mortal puts on immortality and this corruptible puts on incorruption.

>> I love it when you talk about what's going to happen to the Christian age. Keep going. Uh, what's going to happen to the corruption? Those who are in the slavery.

>> Destroyed.

>> Keep it up, man. Keep it up.

>> You're calling Paul.

>> Julian. Hello, Julian. Nice to see you.

>> Call Paul a man of doubt.

>> I'm calling Jill a man of doubt.

>> I'm getting this from Paul. I'm not making this up.

>> So, will creation be freed from the slavery of corruption? True or false?

>> True.

>> Okay, cool.

>> We differ in as to how God will do that. You made up some sort of story about him taking the rapist and transforming him.

>> That's your storyline. I don't know.

>> When Romans 1 says that God already gave them over,

>> so God gave them over. He's gonna he's he's going to bring them back after giving them over. Well, why give them over in the first place? For to vanity was the creation subjected against its will. Because of him. That's why. Because of him who subjects it in expectation. Do you know what expectation is Jill?

>> So in Romans 1, does Paul complete does Paul teach that narrative?

>> Romans.

>> Is that narrative repeated in Romans 1 or does he say

>> Romans 1 is intimately connected with Romans 8? It's exactly long thought.

>> In my interpretation, it is in yours, it's a contradiction because in Romans 1, Paul never says that those that God gives up, he will one day restore.

>> Uh, Romans 8 20:21 does.

>> Okay. So, you go to Romans 8 now where Paul Paul is not saying in Romans 8 that the unbeliever is going to be restored. He's talking about

>> No, he says creation

>> creation. All creation will be set free from the slavery of corruption. Jill,

>> right? But go back to my analogy. You're not able to pay attention. It's wonderful to pay attention, Jill.

>> I I am, but it's not specific.

>> Turn around, Jill. Creation shall be freed from the slavery of details.

>> How How will God do this?

>> Do you care?

>> According to Paul, I do care. That's why I research how. In second Thessalonians, Paul explains how God will do this.

>> By destroying the wicked,

>> he will remove Satan, his angels, and those who follow him. This is all taught throughout scripture. I can go to Revelation. I I can go to Romans 1. He gives them over to a reprobate mind. And there's no there there is not even a hint of restoration for those in

>> here in Romans 8:2.

>> What you got to do is go to Romans 8 talking about the Christians RESURRECTION AND SAY AHA this is for everyone. No Jill Jill Jill Jill what about what about second Corinians 5:19 God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself not imputing their trespasses. Can you answer that Jill? Yeah, that's speaking about Christians. That is not speaking about everyone who's ever lived. That's speaking about Christians. The world being the people who are following Christ in the world. That's why Jesus doesn't pray for everyone. He only prays for believers in John 17. Believers in the world. We are in the world but not of the world. He is not praying for those who are of the world. He's only praying for those who are of Christ even though we're in the world. So God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish. Not to whosoever he created shall not perish. Okay, that's what you would need the text to say in order for your doctrine to be true. But it doesn't say that. You have to go over the passages that are talking about what will happen to the believer and try to expand that to the entire cosmos including Judas. Paul never does that. So, so why do you do that? Why do you expand God's salvation beyond what the Apostle Paul expounds expanded to? Paul goes way beyond revelations, my brother.

>> Sure he does. So why do you expect? Great.

>> Yes, he does. First Corinthians 15 202 through28. Good for him.

>> Paul goes way beyond revelations. You're still stuck on revelation.

>> John goes beyond revelation as well.

>> Uh uh Jill,

>> good for Paul and John. You still don't have everyone being saved that ever lived.

>> Jill, I have an answer for you.

>> Revelation.

>> I have an answer for you, Jill. Would you like it?

>> Of course. From you, St. Tommy, I'll take any answer.

>> Your question to Ace was, "Why do you overexpand?" And my response to that, my answer to you, for you, for me, is probably the same reason you do. the exact same reason you do.

>> Not sure.

>> If you can figure out why you do, perhaps you could understand why

>> Ace does not.

>> Ace does.

>> Ace does not expound on anything. He just simply picks verses and tries to apply them or misappropriates them. tries to apply them to everyone where Paul specifically is speaking about what will happen to us when we die. He is writing to Christians in the providence or in in the in Rome. He is not writing and saying this to to uh aragopists or to the Stoics. He never said this to the Stoics and he visited them in the book of Acts. He never teached this to them. You're going to the creation. And it's you're going to be freed from slavery to corruption until glorious freedom. Only believers. This only applies to believers, the children of God. Your accusation.

>> Oh my god.

>> Your accusations uh seem seem compulsive, Jill. They seem compulsive. Just saying. Sean laughter.

>> You are You're funny, Jill. You turned the world into You turned the world into a group of Christians. That just cracks me up, bro. I don't know where you pulled that out of Maybe you pulled that out of your ass.

>> The definition of the word world. Want to look it up in the Greek? Genius. No, I didn't think so. I didn't think so. Okay. So, world never means in this in the Bible at least everyone that's ever lived.

>> Did you want to look that up in the Greek? The word.

>> It says it right there in front of you in Romans. It says vanity was the creation. the creation. Not a few Christians. All creation, clown.

>> Mhm.

>> Read it.

>> Right.

>> Read it, Jill. All creation.

>> That's everything

>> for the creation. The the things

>> subjected not voluntarily against, right? But because of him who Christ

>> that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into freedom and glory of the children of God.

>> Yeah, that's good news, baby.

>> What is your problem with that? It's right in front of you. What is your problem with this Romans 8?

>> Because I know how to read, sir. I know how to read. You don't. It

>> really

>> speaking of the creation. These are

>> based on your narrative. You don't know how to read.

>> It is an inanimate is not a pronoun. Genius. It didn't say who subjects them. It says it. The creation, the universe, the planets. Not the creation, not human beings, but the creation itself. Oh, well, humans were created by God. Are they part of creation? Then why didn't Paul said it and they they will join in and and obtain the freedom that we have. It says that creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption.

>> Sean speaks about entropy before entropy.

>> Sean, before science, modern science, Paul talks about entropy. Yes sir. Yes sir.

>> How do you like talking to the king of doubt?

>> The the universe itself is losing energy. It is decaying literally. Ask a scientist.

>> It's going to be full it's going to be fully restored, Jill. You're going to eat your words. You're going to eat your words.

>> You don't even know what you're talking about with your theological BS. You're going to eat your words. All creation is going to be completely restored, Jill. And you're going to eat your words one day, my friend.

>> Well, I need I need you need to eat Paul's words right now.

>> Only God can help you, Jill.

>> You need to eat. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in pains of childbirth right up until the present time. Oh, this is great. Not only so, but we ourselves. So, there's a distinction between the creation and we ourselves. But we, not the creation anymore, but we are we part of the creation. Yes. But Paul is making a distinction between it and we we ourselves who have the first fruits of the spirit listen carefully grown inwardly as well as we wait for our adoption not everyone's adoption. Jill, do you understand process?

>> First fruits. First fruits. And then there's going to be a whole lot more coming in the future, my brother.

>> Oh, yes. Show that. You could not.

>> You could not show that in first.

>> You don't understand process, brother.

>> Yeah, you're you're laughing. You know you're a joke. You could not explain. You could not find that in 1 Corinthians 15. It says Christ, then us, then that's the end. Okay. Now, you're reading over in Romans 8 a little further and you realize that it there is speaking about inanimate objects, the creation, the planets, the the stars, the moon, those things. But we ourselves will also we also wait to be changed

>> along with creation. But it doesn't mention non-believers being adopted to sunship and redeeming of their bodies. It only says us. Paul is 100% clear. So don't take verse 20 and try to adopt a a doctrine that says that creation means even unbelievers when Paul says no. Verse 23. And we will be changed as well along.

>> Does God Does God Does God lock up all in stubbornness, Jill?

>> But only redeems us. Yes. But he only does God purposely lock up all together in stubbornness.

>> Does that include creation itself? Yes. But who does Paul say will be redeemed? creation itself and our bodies. Not all bodies, our bodies. It's very clear hect. Now, you could say it's not fair. He subjected the whole creation and doesn't redeem the whole cre. You can cry a river

>> process like diets or something,

>> but that's what Paul teaches.

>> So, go cry to Paul when you knock on the pearly gates. I don't want to cry about this.

>> Go cry to Paul. Why Paul did the Holy Spirit move you to teach this?

>> I love Romans 8:20 and 21.

>> It's time for me to go. Ace.

>> Um,

>> where'd you go?

>> Is your parking meter up yet? I think the universal is I think the universal is

>> Jill, you better catch that beamer, buddy. It's somebody's driving off your car, brother.

>> The words take my car. This is more important that you understand what Paul teaches.

>> And and also, uh, Jill, thank you for your zealous exhortations. I I find I find them amusing.

>> No, no problem. Anytime. I appreciate you, Jill. I just I just It's okay to disagree with you, but I believe the whole creation is going to be restored, brother. And if you and if you believe it's different and it doesn't apply to men and all of creation, well, you can separate the two and create your own doctrine. Paul,

>> I think the whole thing I think the whole thing will be restored. So, that's my perception.

>> We don't care what you think.

>> I care what I think. I don't care what you think.

>> We don't care. We care what Paul says.

>> I don't care what you say.

>> We care what Paul says. We don't care.

>> You care. You don't care what Paul says.

>> I just read you what Paul said in verse 23. Did he not say that us?

>> We did. He say we or did he say all?

>> You're funny.

>> Hey, we care about me, not you.

>> But did he say all? All. Now Joe doesn't care about the all because he's just reading what Paul says and he's being honest. Well, sure. If you want to ask me my opinion, it doesn't count. But I'll tell you, yeah, I hope I wish that all would be saved. But

>> God, I am not God.

>> Cool. God, that's a step in the right direction.

>> You don't love his decision- making skills. You hate God's decision.

>> You hate God's decision to dance. You hate his decision. You hate God.

>> I love God.

>> Nice. So my opinion about who I want to be saved doesn't matter. Paul taught the same thing. It counts as dung. Everything Paul knew counted as dung. That's how the attitude you need to take. You need to take that attitude when you approach this text. Forget about my feelings. Forget about what I want for the world. And what does God say will happen?

>> I'm just going to choose to be happy. So it doesn't matter what you say. Or you can choose to be happy.

>> I've been given choice. I got a free will. I can choose to be happy, Jill. Isn't that great?

>> Or you can choose.

>> Pray is free will. Do you have a free will, Jill?

>> You can be happy.

>> Can you pick and choose? Can you choose where you're going to go when you die? Or is it already done for you?

>> Of course. We don't believe in free will. We adopted the tulip actually. So, we don't believe that there is a free will in the in that sense. God is the one who determines where you spend eternity.

>> Okay. But why does it say why does it say in Jeremiah 10:23 it's not in man to even know or direct his steps? Why does it say that, Jill? If it's not in man, it's got to be somewhere in the universe. And I guess it's got to be in that creative energy that created all things.

>> So that's why I've concluded that my energy that wants everybody to be saved means nothing. Okay. What you just said is exactly why I've concluded what I believe about who should be saved. Mother Teresa, my grandmother means nothing. Okay? God is going to save whom he will save. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy on it. You can't. You have no say in the matter. I understand you have a desire and I understand your heart. All of you have great hearts. You have big hearts. Oh,

>> you have enlarged hearts. Okay. But an enlarged heart is not always a good thing. Ask a doctor.

>> Is overmpathy a thing? Is that what you're saying?

>> Your heart is bigger than God's in some cases? But but is it isn't it necessarily?

>> Can you ask uh can you pray for God to harden me heart for me, please, Jill?

>> O for it's a bit too circumcised this heart. needs to be more.

>> Oh, that's funny.

>> I do say, Joe, that uh you have more accusations than an ordinary lordship salvationist.

>> Oh, now I'm lordship. All of a sudden, now I'm lordship.

>> I didn't say you were a lordship. I said you have more accusations than an ordinary lordship salvationist. I did not call you a lordship salvation. I'm not accusing these people of anything other than other than other than their feelings and their their traditions or sub uh or uh circumventing the text, trying to get around the text by using your emotions to do it

>> too tight. But if the shoe fits too tight, Jill, you may want to smell it.

>> I hope everyone is in heaven. Except for Barack Obama.

>> What about him?

>> Why do you Why do you got to bring politics into this Chill. You're always bringing politics in. You got this little flare bang of politics that you drag in here. I don't know. It's like a It's a dirty filthy kind of like a rug that you carry around with dust all over it.

>> Is Is Obama an ambassador? an impostor in your eyes, Jill?

>> No, it's just a joke. But but the point I'm making is it doesn't matter how much how genuine I believe or how much I want or desire my family members, my close friends, uh to to make it into the kingdom. That decision does not belong to me. And I trust God that he has made the best decision for us by excluding some.

>> That sounds healthy to do that.

>> I trust God.

>> That sounds healthy to do that.

>> You guys don't trust God. You guys think you know the best way for how God should handle this.

>> There goes an accusation again.

>> How should he handle it? Okay.

>> God that he's got a plan for everyone.

>> I know. Let's start at the beginning. God creates. Man eventually falls, but he has a plan. And his plan is to do what? Genesis 3:15.

>> His plan is to set creation free from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

>> What's the first prophecy in the Bible? Come on, St. Tommy, help him out. These aren't Christians. Now,

>> Genesis 3:15,

>> the prophecy in the Bible is that in the day that you eat of it to die shall you be dying.

>> Okay. All right. But the but the concerning Christ, the first prophecy is in Genesis 3:15, the proto evangel, right? You guys love that word, the evangel. Do you know about the proto evangel?

>> And what does that say? That Christ will do what? one day to Satan,

>> bruise his head,

>> crush him, destroy him, right?

>> Bruise his head.

>> It's an analogy for destruction.

>> Bruise,

>> and and the serpent shall bruise his heel, right?

>> For to vanity is the creation subjected against its will. Isn't that cool, Jill? Right. So that's the very first prophecy in the Bible, right?

>> The first prophecy is in the day that you eat of it to die shall you be dying.

>> Okay. So Satan will be defeated. Correct?

>> Satan is defeated to you guys.

>> Hey, hey, listen. defeated. Hallelujah.

>> According to you guys, Satan is never defeated because hell is endless.

>> Hell is eternal. Therefore, Satan is never really defeated. It goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. So, creation is never rescued from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

>> True.

>> Through his death and resurrection, sin is defeated, death is defeated, and the devil fulfilling the promise. Well,

>> fulfilling the promise. So, if you guys don't want to believe Genesis 3:15 is a promise that Satan will be destroyed, and you think that's a promise that Satan will be restored,

>> then you go right ahead and create your own religion, but don't call it Christianity.

>> So, Jill, allow me to ask you uh soberminded question.

>> Okay.

>> Is sin eternal? Is sin eternal?

>> What do you mean by that? Is

>> my god, that's frightening.

>> Meaning is going to last forever.

>> It's forgiven.

>> Noble, redeemable.

>> Sin isn't in sin isn't

>> work

>> or two things.

>> Well, I'm I'm about to step out. Hey, is that Dasher?

>> Yep. Just mumbling in the background. Oh, did you ever figure out who that entity was that was speaking to you, telling you to do these things and teach these things?

>> No, I'm doing it all on my own. Free will.

>> You're right at home. You're right at home.

>> Whatever I saw everybody and repeat it and I want to try it again.

>> You are right at home because they're doing it on their own here, too.

>> But in in Christian theology, sin is

>> get your body and mind ready to see in the spiritual realm and get over it. There you go. Well, well, they actually do need a prophet over here because I hear Justin is no longer um allowed on. Is that right, Ace? Is that

>> Joe? Could you answer the question? Hold on.

>> Sin

>> sin is eternal. Is that right?

>> It isn't eternal in the sense of existing forever without forgiveness.

>> So,

>> how do we know that? That's

>> sin is eternal and Jill has said so. Cool.

>> What do you think about that, Ace? Really, I want to know. Do you think it is or do you want to know too? And I don't know. I that sounds very scary. I thinkable

>> but I don't.

>> So psychic I will contradict Jill and say sin is not eternal

>> because one day this mortal will put on immortality and this corruptible shall put on immortality uh incorruptible and that will change the dynamics of everything.

>> Well, I like the term forever destroyed. sin will be evil will be forever destroyed because I like to think of the the escatan or the new world as having no time. So they

>> just said sin is eternal but still we have it here

>> not eternal in the sense that that it will exist without forgiveness. In other words, you have a thousand words. You're real slippery. You won't commit to anything.

>> But not everyone is forgiven. Like blasphemy is eternal.

>> Is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit forgiving?

>> Uh, yes, it will be forgiven, but not in this eon or that which is to come. It must wait until the

>> Guys, I have a question. You have to add another.

>> I'm I'm not kidding, Jill. The scripture says it will not be be forgiven in this eon or that only two eons. How did you get five?

>> I don't understand.

>> There are two eons to come. But the during this eon and the next eon it will not be forgiven.

>> It won't be. So which eon will it be forgiven?

>> In the fifth eon of time.

>> Oh the fifth eon. Ladies and gentlemen fifth eon. I got you. All right.

>> Better. Thank God. Joe,

>> does the verse on the screen apply to Judah?

>> Show me the fifth eon in the scriptures, please. I know it's not there.

>> Yes, it is. It's called the eon of the eons,

>> right? And how do you know that's the fifth eon and not the one Jesus was referring to?

>> Uh Jesus was referring to the fourth eon, which is thousand year reign of Christ. because I'm a

>> student called him so I'm a student of the scriptures and and we have gone through okay if you want if you want information Jill about the matter go back to the past in in this channel it doesn't go back very far and look at the doctrine of the eons part one part two part three part four and part five we went we've gone over through it uh the last 10 days the doctrine of the eons and you can bring yourself up to speed on the matter

>> either in this world or the world to Is the world

>> doesn't say world? It says eon.

>> Does say world.

>> It says is the world to come.

>> Is the world to come.

>> No, I'm not letting you get away with that Jill. The word world is cosmos. The word eon is eon. So knock it off. You're a deceiver.

>> In the eon to come. In the eon to come. Does that include the fifth eon?

>> No, it it only includes the fourth eon. The thousand.

>> You can't validate that. You cannot substantiate that, Ace. That's just what you believe.

>> Just say that's just what I believe. That's all.

>> I can say off, Jill, and I will right now. So, I've had enough of you.

>> Excuse me. Don't leave. Uh oh.

>> Let no corrupt communication come out of your mouth.

>> Oh, God. I'd never open my mouth except except for quoting KJV611, of course. So that was quite refreshing.

>> Big win, Ace, on that blasphemy question.

>> That was quite that was quite refreshing.

>> Yes, it was. Big win. Huh?

>> Perhaps Joe will be more careful about what he asks next time.

>> Christian game show. Yes.

>> A game show. Sounds girby. Lucky for Jill that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not a permanent situation because I can accuse him of blasphemy.

>> Oops. His bad, you're bad. They're bad. I don't know.

>> Redeemable. Apparently

>> that's true if luck exists. But

>> Right. Luck. Yeah. Yeah. So, Julian, is this your first time here?

>> Uh, how'd you find this channel?

>> It's on YouTube. I was just scrolling.

>> Uhhuh. I don't I don't personally believe in free will myself, but um so I was curious. But

>> yeah, I mean I don't know if y'all trying to apply this verse to Judas, but I'd say Romans 8:201 does not apply to Judas, but it applies to the elect only.

>> Okay. So, uh could you give us a testimony about your journey of faith thus far? how you arrived at today.

>> Yeah. Um well, since I was born, um well, since I can remember, I always looked at the sky and knew that Jesus was God really. My my father taught me a lot about the Lord, but he passed when I was seven. Um and then I was under care with my mother. Jesus was never exalted in the household really. Um he was never really I mean she didn't go against him but every day was just carnal living. I mean but um my grandmother Carolyn in Arkansas so I lived in California at the time. She uh she would call every now and then and just you know pray over me and my brother and over the phone and just talk about his angels and how he has the power to protect us and you know not that there was any danger or anything. she just felt the need to say that, you know, but um she passed away and I didn't really I don't really have any me memories of her besides through telecommunication through the phone. So I feel like you know it is possible to like fellowship on the internet. But um yeah, so long story short um I met some people online just playing like video games on PlayStation. Um, I met like an older mentor and he would talk to me about the Lord and I've known him for like over a decade now and he's been my closest friend. Um, even recently um he's he's mid-50s. He had a brain injury and the um the doctors said that multiple doctors neurologists even said that he wasn't going to make it. Um they said he was going to go into a coma and just die. And I mean my current wife, which is his daughter, so I end up marrying his daughter. But um she was very distraught. And like it was hard. I was having a battle that whether or not he would die because I know Jesus can do miracles. I do believe though I feel like there's very few people on the earth who do believe genuinely. I've seen God work in my life. I've seen him call me when I wasn't looking for him necessarily. So, you know, but and I also wanted to believe because Jesus said if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you can move entire geographical locations like mountains. So, I was like, okay, if I believe perhaps he'll be healed. Even though a lot of people like in the reformed circles like they try to kind of they cleanse the faith in such a way and say, oh, well, you know, God can heal, but will he? It's like well I just I want to believe you know. So but anyways he end up the doctors the director of the hospital end up um literally saying he's not even a believer. He was like I am proud to have witnessed or I'm thankful that I witnessed a true genuine miracle because he's still walking in in and living today but months ago he couldn't even walk. half of his body was paralyzed and he was in the bed for months on end. So, but that person who's encouraged me through internet communications as a kid just playing PlayStation and stuff, you know, like he's encouraged me in the faith. And honestly, I think it was God's will because I lost my my father when I was seven and my my grandmother um my father's mother who I don't really have any memories of like meeting. I just only remember her voice on the phone. She would always encourage me in Jesus. So I feel like God when he sets his sight on somebody, his will will be done in their lives. In my case, I've had all the way from when I was seven and my dad died all the way to when I was 14 and I met my my father-in-law, Paul, my future father-in-law. Um, in between that time, the Lord sent people and messages to me here and there, but really like if he didn't send Paul, I mean, my father-in-law, like my future father-in-law, I don't know if I would have continued to grow in the faith, you know? But so that that's my testimony of how God is just able to reach into his elect's life. I don't believe everyone's saved. In fact, God doesn't say everyone's saved. It's obvious everyone's not saved and not everyone will be saved. Otherwise, what's the point of the gospel in the first place? So, I heard someone mention like universalism or something like earlier, but that's obviously false. Anyone who says that's completely far from Christ in his thinking, his death is in vain if everyone is saved. We need a savior and that is Jesus. So, we could put that out of universalism, out of the view. It's completely false. But yeah, that's that's my the shorter version of my testimony.

>> Well, that's a lovely testimony.

>> Um, so, uh, how old are you, by the way?

>> I'm 25. Just turned 25.

>> Nice. So, when did you first come to believe that as you re as you understand believing now? Honestly, I don't think there was a actual day because even, you know, my my parents are divorced at a young age. Um, and my father was still like I'd say, "Oh my, you know, God's name in vain." And he'd be like, "Don't say that." I'm like, "Oh my gosh." He said, "Don't say that either." And I'm like, "Oh, so don't say it either." And and I I took his word at that. Don't say God's name in vain. So maybe I believed then when I was, you know, six years old, but since they were divorced, I live with my mother. I was kind of around homosexuality even and like all types of evil. And um yeah, like I I don't know when I particularly believed, but I'll tell you after my father died, I was not around Christianity. I was not going to church, none of that. day in and day out, day after day, 365 days a year for many years on end until I was 14. Right around then when I got a PlayStation 4, just living in the world, just living my life, you know, I always if someone spoke against God, I would defend it. My brother was like proud atheist even though he was raised under my father who did believe in God. He did believe in Jesus and he ended up denying God and still does today. But um I'd say around when I was 14, that's really when God started working in my life more. I'm just playing PlayStation and I'm playing a game called Warframe. I don't know if you guys know it, but basically it's like it was a freetoplay game back then. And um I'm just playing with my friends. I think his name gamer tag was Cajun Angel and Darkest Ass. And uh I end up joining a clan and I end up meeting Paul, this older fellow. Um I met him just playing a video game and he would just start talking about the Lord. Like I did like some crude things. I remember sending him some pictures of like women in bikinis and stuff, laughing about it. I was like 14 years old or something. He's like, "No, don't send that to me. I'm married." So like there's been times like I clearly wasn't like doing what God wanted. But he started bringing back to my mind just a random person online. I mean he's living in Australia. So like it's a long story deep big story but he was living in Australia and I'm living in California. So this is like completely like God's design in my opinion. God's excellent design. how I just met some stranger on the internet and he just starts encouraging me in the Lord and we started just my my parents kind of gave me free reign to play a video game whenever I wanted and that kind of shows you I wasn't like really in a Christian household I could just go on the internet and do whatever I want but God did not use that freedom that I had he used it for the good of my life because that person ended up encouraging me a ton day in and day out to the point where fast forward like six years later into co Um, I would call Paul my best friend, you know, my really close companion. We would talk every day. Um, and I and he has an entire family in Australia as well. So, it's a long story. End up leaving um the Eastern United States in like around '08. And that wasn't a good decision by him because he did have family in in America. As I said, like me and his daughter are married now. Um but he left them behind and that wasn't God's will and I think he kind of got disciplined for that. But um but yeah, he I I end up like you know being pretty close to a lot of like his family in Australia as well. Long distance communication. We just talk on PlayStation parties or Xbox parties or Discord, whatever we're using. Um, and I just felt like over that period of time all the way up to COVID, like he was like my family. Like I had my own family in

real life that I dealt with every day, but they didn't love God's law. Like they acknowledge Jesus, but their actions were kind of like, like Jesus said, you know, if you want to enter the kingdom, anyone who wants to see the kingdom must be born a second time. You know, everyone's born once, but are you born a second time? That's God's decision, you know. But I felt like, you know, Paul, he was clearly born a second time and like helped encourage me over these years.

And when COVID hit, man, that whole event of propaganda, because I don't, I don't think COVID was like, I honestly think it's like a shadow of what the Antichrist wants to do in the world. I do believe that because the entire world was told, you know, you can't, you can't work, you can't provide for your family unless you wear a mask, unless you take this mark, or this, I mean, not mark, this vaccine. It's a, it's a shadow of that type of situation. And during that time, it's really right before COVID, it's really when I started seeking God. You know, I was listening to like artists like, I don't know if you know who Kanye West is. Uh, vaguely.

Oh, I was listening to him and he, it's not, no one would consider him by any means, Christian. Um, one of my other favorite artists I was drawn to around like 2018, 2017 was an artist called John Bellion. I don't know why I was drawn to them. I just was. And these artists, at the same time, I started growing and growing even more and taking scripture seriously and started reading. These artists started talking about God. And I was like, that's strange because like, it's like God kind of like guided my path to where when I started getting serious about him, everything I was listening to, like random celebrities I never met, were starting to take him more seriously. And obviously, like, I like Kanye came out with an album called Jesus Is King in 2018. This is like, and so did John Bellion. It was kind of strange that a pop artist like as talented as known as John Bellion would just start talking about God in his songs, 'cause that's not why I was drawn to either of them. I was just drawn to them because like there was some worldly inclination, like some worldly truth that they had. But so God designed all these things and knitted all these things together for me. He kind of used Kanye, or maybe I don't know how he used Kanye because Kanye is very like sinful, but I would not listen to his music at all. I would not recommend it. Very satanic. But for some reason, God allowed him to make the Jesus Is King album at the same time. And, and I realized that was false like almost immediately. But like, it's just right around that time, like everything in my life was, I was just getting confronted with thoughts of God and, and being encouraged constantly with all types of messages and, and signs that pointed towards him.

And so when COVID happened, like that was like, everyone was kind of like forced to start thinking about life 'cause we're all hit with, like, we didn't know what the world was going to be, you know? There's this crazy virus. Like, hindsight, it doesn't seem as bad, but when you were in it, like COVID was like a crazy time for everyone, you know? And just during that time, I grew in faith so much to where, to be honest, I don't think there was a single day I would go to work where Jesus wouldn't enter my mind. A single day. I don't think, honestly, I think it's like a streak, like at least 1500 days in a row Jesus has entered my head in a row. I, I've never went a day where I don't think about Jesus. There's not been a single day where I haven't heard a Bible verse, even probably. You know, I go to work and I listen to, um, there's this app called RefNet. It's pretty good. It's Reformation Network. Has like R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, had some, had some John Piper on there and Alistair Beg, other preachers, but they might have shifted it because they do shift the, the preachers on there depending on like, like John Piper's probably not on there because of some doctrinal stuff he said recently. But, but like, I would listen to that every day and I don't know. I'm just rambling, I feel like, but I just, every day was about the Lord and I feel like that's how it should be, you know?

So yeah, your, your question. Um, basically, I felt like over time, God increased my belief. He increased my faith, but it wasn't like, there wasn't a specific day. Maybe sometime in 2014, that's when I actually got baptized. Um, in 2014, once again, that wasn't on my own will. Actually, I just had a friend.

Um, my best friend at the time wasn't Christian by any means. His mom just randomly just up and said, "Hey, let's go to Lake Paris and, and there's a baptism. Let's, let's get baptized." I didn't even, like, it wasn't my own will. I just, I was like, and that was right around the time when I started really believing in Jesus. And God sent Paul into my life over a video game and we just started talking about him daily. So, and I was on the video game every day in case anyone's wondering. Like, I was, I was a huge gamer. So, I mean, God used it, but yeah. So, I'd say prior around 2014 is really when I started believing, but God used COVID a lot. And I did acknowledge Jesus as a six-year-old.

Sweet. Yeah. Thanks for letting me talk. You're welcome. I, uh, thoroughly enjoyed your testimony of this journey of faith that you're on. So, uh, how about this for a complimentary thought of that? Uh, what scriptures, uh, of late have influenced you the most? What's your favorite scripture? How about that? What's your favorite scripture at the moment?

I like how you say "at the moment" because I do feel like it changes.

Yeah. Yeah. People, people be like, "What's your favorite Bible verse?" And I'm like, I used to give a verse, but now I'm just like, "I don't know. It changes every, every week."

Uhhuh. Um, honestly, I think I don't have like a specific. I honestly feel like my favorite verse now is, um, is probably, um, I feel like I don't, I wouldn't say I have a particular. I feel like they're equal now, I would say. But like, nothing comes off the top of my head, like specifically. Um, I will say though, like right now, I'm going through, it's the Christmas season.

Mhm. So like, there is a lot of debate in the, at least I feel like in my circle, in my life about, you know, like, is Christmas from God? Like, and how does that apply to our lives, you know? Like the celebration of seasons and stuff and festivals and all that stuff. That's really what I'm meditating on now, a lot, trying to get to the bottom of.

Nice. Nice. Um, how about this for a question? Um, what do you think is the greatest prophecy in the Bible?

The greatest prophecy?

Yeah.

Question. It's a really good question. I don't know. Do you, do you have a thought on it?

Yeah. Yeah. I, um, I think the greatest prophecy in the whole Bible is 1 Corinthians 15:20. You want to read that for me?

Yeah.

1 Corinthians 15 verse 20. Man, this isn't even, I was thinking Old Testament. New Testament.

Okay. Um, let's see. All right. You said 15:20.

That's right. 15:20.

"But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep."

Isn't that lovely? Yeah. That is the greatest of all prophecies. That he is the firstfruits of them who have fallen asleep. What a marvelous prophecy to me. It is the most comforting of prophecies that he is the first fruit of those who have fallen asleep. Yeah, please. Because as you might have observed, a whole lot of folks out there have already fallen asleep. And most likely we is going to fall asleep too.

Yeah.

And he is the first fruit of those who have fallen asleep. Yeah, that's a really good passage. I'm, I'm reading it. Um.

Go ahead and read it out loud.

Yeah. See, um, see the verse after. Start at 21. "For as by man came death, by man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive."

"But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom of God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he says all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is ex— that he is accepted who put all things in subjection under him."

Okay. So I think that means every— everything's in subjection to Jesus except for Jesus himself.

Except for the Father.

Except for the Father. Yeah. "When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be in all— or that God may be all in all."

Isn't that something?

Otherwise,

Read it again. 20 through 28 and, uh.

"And, and, and I'll make a few comments along the way."

Okay.

"But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep."

Oh my God. I'm, I got to stop you there. Not that I can really comment. It's just that I'm struck. I'm struck. He is the first fruit of all who have fallen asleep. That's something.

Yeah. This, uh, reminds me of the, there was a feast of first fruits in the Old Testament that pointed towards him.

Mhm.

And it's like, feel like there's many good prophecies. I mean, there's like hundreds, maybe more.

Of everything's about Jesus from Genesis to Revelation. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

"For as by man came death, by man has come also the resurrection of the dead."

Wow. Isn't that something?

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive." Okay, let me make a comment right there. If you, if you take that verse and go over to the bookshelf, you know, and just look at any commentator, any Bible commentator, there's a really weird thing that goes on with regular evangelical fundamentalist Calvinist commentators. They take the "all" this of the second part of the verse, that "in Christ shall all be made alive." They'll put that "all" in front of the word "in." And they'll say, "all in Christ shall be made alive." But it doesn't say that. The commentators say that. It doesn't say "all in Christ shall be made alive." It says, "in Christ shall all be made alive." And that would make sense since the first part of the passage says, "for even as thus also." So it's a parallel sentence structure. It doesn't say "all in Adam die." It says, "in Adam all die." Because we are all in Adam, whether we know it or not, whether we believe it or not, whether we like it or not, we're in Adam and we're going to die. And in a similar vein, "in Christ shall all be made alive." And, uh, so if you look at the regular commentators, every one of them takes the second "all" and shoves it in front of the "in Christ." But that's not what it says.

Cool. No, that makes sense. Um, so you're saying like, everyone, despite faith or not, will be made alive in Christ.

You don't have to believe in Adam to die in Adam. You're going to die whether you believe in Adam or not.

And just as powerful a thought is the idea that in Christ all shall be made alive.

Yeah. No, I agree. It says, um, in another passage, it says that by him all things are held together.

Amen. That's Colossians 1:17, I think.

Yeah, it sounds, sounds Colossians, sounds right. Um, but all things are being held together. So that means like, you know, every fabric of everything.

Amen. Amen. All I can say is amen.

Okay. Everyone will be granted to the tree of life in the sense that because God, Jesus is life, you know, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." So he is life to all, even the blasphemers, which makes, which actually makes him so much like, you know, it's like, uh, when you're, you know, you have a father who takes care of you, but you're disobedient towards him.

He still takes care of you.

He still reigns on the just and the unjust.

Like the prodigal son.

Right. Um.

And guess what? The prodigal son had a brother, and that brother was righteous. He did everything he should do, but except for one small problem. He was self-righteous as well.

Yeah.

He was full of himself. But the father loved both of those boys.

Yeah.

Okay, read the next verse.

What verse are we on? 23.

23. "But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when—"

Oh my God. Stop right there.

Stop.

"Then comes the end." The end of what?

The end of what?

It would be the end of the making alive process which began in 2021 and 22. And then comes the end when all will be made alive in Christ. And what happens at the same time as the end of this process? Go ahead.

"When he delivers the kingdom of God, the sorry, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power." And we might even say that he destroys, Jesus destroys his own rule, authority, and power. Why? Because his rule and authority and power has achieved its purpose. It has brought all in subjection to the Father. And so his rule, even his own rule and authority and power is no longer important or relevant because it has achieved its purpose and he delivers up the kingdom to his God and Father. Okay, keep going.

"For he must reign until—"

Stop. How long does Christ reign?

All the way until—

Until he doesn't reign forever and ever.

Well, I said he must reign until, meaning—

He must reign until something marvelous happens.

Until, um, he has put every— all his enemies under his feet.

And so far, who are the enemies listed? That would be rulership, authority, and power. Those are the three enemies in this context. Yeah.

And then there's one more enemy left.

Keep, keep going.

All right. Let's see. Um, "and then the last enemy to be destroyed is death."

Wow. So the enemies in this context are not Hitler and Jeffrey Dahmer and Stalin and Obama. No, the enemies are rulership, authority, power, and death. Now, why would these four items, these four principalities be listed as enemies? Because as long as God needs to threaten somebody with death, as long as God needs to rule and have authority over somebody, it, it means that they are still somehow imperfect. Uh, they still have animosity toward God. They still have anxiety or some type of bad stuff. They need a chokehold on them, right? They need a dog leash. But as soon as God, through Christ's grand work of ruling, can bring everyone in true subjection to him, well, then rulership becomes irrelevant and even death becomes irrelevant and death can no longer hold any of its victims. And death is the wages of sin. So we may infer—

That the wages of sin will come to an end when death comes to an end.

Isn't that cool?

Yeah.

Death is the last enemy to be abolished. The wages of sin will be abolished. And when Jill was just here, I asked Jill point blank if sin is eternal. And Jill said, "Yes, sin is eternal." And that tells me that Jill does not believe the verse you just read because I think we can confidently say in this great matter of faith that sin is not eternal. Sin will be brought to non-existence. Death will be abolished as the last enemy. And the threat of death disappears. And when the threat of death is no longer available as a motivating factor, well then you can't have rulership, authority, and power because all rule is rule with the threat of death. You can prove it to yourself. Just don't pay that parking ticket and watch the government threaten you with essentially death.

Don't pay your taxes. You get the threat of death. Don't pay the parking ticket. You get the threat of death. And God brought about human government because sin was just everywhere, man. But when God brings us all, shall we say, to the end of ourselves, then we get verses 27, 28. Keep reading those.

27, 28.

Or 26, wherever you are. Uh, yeah, 26. "The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For God has put all things in subjection under his feet. But when it says all things are put in subjection, it is plain that he is accepted who put all things in subjection under him."

Right? So the Father is the only thing that does not go under the feet of Christ.

Yep. Keep going. "When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be in all—in all."

So will God be a little in a pew, or will God be all in all?

That.

Do you want me to repeat the question?

Yeah.

Will God be a little in a pew, or will God be all in all?

All in all.

100%. 100%.

Wow. Yeah. So, this subjection of all to Christ is a big deal. So we might say, I'm just thinking out loud here. We might say that we who believe these matters, we who are believers, we are somewhat in subjection to God right now. I mean, even though some of the brothers and sisters behave as if they're not in subjection to God, you know, they get involved with sin and, you know, stealing money and having sex with the deacon's wife or whatever the hell they got going. They might appear to be not in subjection to God, but by and large, we would say we, I feel comfortable saying that most Christians are at least moving in that direction of being in subjection to God. But this, this grand prophecy that you just read shows us that the whole dang universe is moving toward the grand and glorious event of being in subjection to Christ. And then Christ will be in subjection to God, and then God will be all in all.

Yeah. Even, um, I mean, even the, I don't know, I'm trying to think of the worst, the most evil person. Hitler comes to mind, but I'd rather use scripture. King Nebuchadnezzar, earlier on in life, thousands of years ago, he was—

And can we kind of say that God became more "all in" King Nebuchadnezzar? I mean, he was in the, he was in a bad way for seven years.

Yeah, he was, uh, I mean, honestly, he is probably better off for those seven years than he was prior because prior he exalted himself.

He exalted himself. He, God was not all in him in those days. And then at the end of his seven-year journey, oh my God, he had so much humility. Yeah. 'Cause, uh, I think he was better off when God lowered him as a beast before they were even completed because at least in that time he acted as he actually was. He, he acted as an insane person. But he was insane prior. It just, he had his, he had his appearance put together. He's like, "Look at the idols I made, or look at the idol I made. Look at the great kingdom. Look at all that I made with my hands."

And then God humbled him. And, and, you know what's crazy? I think Daniel loved King Nebuchadnezzar. The reason I think that is because he was very sorrowful. You could tell when he had to tell King Nebuchadnezzar about the judgment that was about to come on him. He was like, kind of distraught. You could tell in his words, he was distraught.

Wow. That's a lot of love, huh?

Yeah. He had love for the king because he served under him. Even though this is the same king, the same man, he was telling his friends to be thrown into a pit of fire at a separate time.

Uhhuh.

Otherwise, you know, if he doesn't, but King Nebuchadnezzar wasn't, he was, he was, he was passionate for evil or for good, whatever it was, he was passionate because when he, when he saw that it, that they were delivered, he told everyone that if they don't worship their God, that they'll be killed. So he was passionate, but he was very, uh, double-minded and he, he didn't believe like true belief. It was kind of like, uh, I don't know, his belief was weird. It wasn't genuine, though. Um, but he did end up believing. I, I do feel like King Nebuchadnezzar could be in heaven because at the end of it all, after those seven years and, and acting like a crazy animal, eating grass and not shaving yourself or trimming your nails for almost a decade, after all that, he came to acknowledge, acknowledge God. He acknowledged, he probably acknowledged Jesus, I would say. I don't, I can't, I'd have to go back and read it, but I feel like his heart has acknowledged Jesus Christ. I mean, he did see one walking like the Son of God in the midst of the four, or in the midst of the, the other three.

He probably saw Jesus.

And I want to say King Nebuchadnezzar, I, I wouldn't be surprised if he's in heaven because—

He did, in the end, give glory to God and he acknowledged that.

Yeah. Just imagine God being all in King Nebuchadnezzar and King Nebuchadnezzar being absolutely thrilled with God himself.

That's 180 though. That's a 180.

Yeah.

Not like that. But previously he was making images of himself.

Mhm.

It's a 180. 180. Even though King Nebuchadnezzar was in subjection to God, just not in his heart.

Right.

In his heart.

Because the Bible, I don't know if this is the actual Bible verse. My, my mind's not, but you guys tell me the scripture says that in my mind, the scripture says that the winds and the waves, like everything listens to God, but the human heart does not. And if that's actually in scripture, we can we can actually use that because—

That points that says that everything obeys God except for man.

And at the same time, we know that everything obeys God in, in reality, because God's sovereign and nothing's out of his control.

Hence, the devil can't do anything unless God says so. But we know that the devil and God are against each other at the same time. How can that be if God only— everything the devil does, God permits? You know what I'm saying? So I think in the same way, King Nebuchadnezzar, God was, he was subjected to God, but not in his good nature because God has a good in it. God has two different types of natures. He has the honorable nature, the honorable uses, and then the dishonorable uses. King Nebuchadnezzar was a dishonorable vessel. He was being used to do dishonorable things.

But as we believe, we all, all believers are made—

As like vessels that aren't used for like King Nebuchadnezzar was used for a lot of crap, excuse me. Put it that way. He was a nasty, he was like the plunger, put it that way. But, you know, there's other, there's other vessels that are used for honorable things like eating. You put it, your food in it, and that are clean. So like, we're like the honorable vessels once we believe in Jesus. Like, we're actually used for good things. And then those who don't believe, they're still subjected to God, just in a dishonorable way. They're used for evil things, nasty things, disgusting things. So like, I think King Nebuchadnezzar had that, that switch from a nasty vessel to a clean vessel. So like, to kind of tie it into what you're saying, I believe. Yeah. All things are in subjection to God now, but there'll be, there'll come a time where it's truly in subjection. Like when Jesus said, you know, the prayer, the one prayer Jesus gave us, you know, the big, the Lord's Prayer, is like, I always, even to this day, I still try to understand it. I'm trying to figure it out. He's like, he says, "Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." As if somehow his will is not done the same way on earth as it is in heaven. I would think God's will is always done the way he wants it. But apparently not. Apparently, there's a heavenly will and then there's a, a will that's separate. That's not the same as the heavenly, you know. So I think that there will come a time where God's heavenly will is done in such a way where everything will be perfect and in subjection to him in every way, fully. Every knee shall bow. Every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord. That means the unbelievers too will confess that Jesus is Lord.

And what will happen to them when they confess?

They will be saved. Because Romans 10:9 and 10 says, "Whoever confesses Jesus as Lord shall be saved."

No, I have to disagree there. I think, well, I don't think the word of God says that they'll be thrown into the lake of fire because—

That may be true, but the lake of fire is no more permanent than the Noah's flood. It's just a temporary subplot in the grand and glorious story of God and Christ. The lake of fire. All right, I could, I could explain it this way. Will Satan be received into the kingdom once all is said and done?

Satan will be changed. He won't even be recognizable. He will be so changed.

So, will he still be Satan, though?

Probably given a new name. Uh, Ephesians 3:15 says that the entire kindred of heaven and earth is being given a name after the Father. So we might not even call him Satan at that time. We might be calling him Charlie.

So—

Might call him friend.

So what happened to Lazarus, the the man who rejected Lazarus, the rich man? What happened to him after his time was said and done in that terrible place that he warned about?

Uh, the rich man and Lazarus parable in Luke 14:15-16 is just that, it's a parable. And Jesus did not invent the rich man and Lazarus parable. It was created by the Pharisees and it was written in their Pharisaical literature. Jesus borrowed it from the Pharisaical literature and used it against them.

Oh, very cool.

There was a teaching.

Pardon me?

I said very cool. I didn't know that.

Yeah, you can find it in the Pharisaical literature called the Talmud. And where did the Pharisees get it from? Well, it turns out that there was 400 years between Malachi and Matthew when Israel did not have a prophet. And in 400 years, the Jews were hanging out with pagans like the Egyptians, right? And we can see the, the plot of the rich man and Lazarus kind of story in pagan mythology, the Egyptian mythology. So we can deduce that the Pharisees stole this rich man and Lazarus thing from the Egyptian pagans. It's not biblical. The biblical teaching about death is that as you read in, in 1 Corinthians 15:20, that he is the first fruit of them who sleep. And so the biblical teaching about death is that you're not alive. That death is the opposite of life. But over in pagan Egyptian mythology, they don't believe that the dead are dead. They believe the dead are still alive. But the Bible teaches that the dead are dead. And it's wonderful to get it that the dead are dead because 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 says Christ died according to the scriptures. He didn't die according to Egyptian mythology. He died according to the scriptures and he was roused from the dead according to the scriptures. And so in the scriptures, the resurrection is our hope, not that we are alive after death. And so when Jesus used the rich man and Lazarus parable, it wasn't even a complete parable. It was one part of a five-part parable because according to the scriptures, the Pharisees were bitching at Jesus and saying, "Ew, he's eating with sinners. How dare he?" And that's in Luke 14, right? And it says, "Jesus opened his mouth and spake unto them this parable." Not these parables, this parable. And this parable went on for five parts. The lost sheep, the lost coin, the shrewd steward, the rich man and Lazarus, and the prodigal son. All five of those elements are one long parable that Jesus was telling the Pharisees because they were being real self-righteous and snotty and saying, "Ew, he's eating with sinners." And so Jesus opened his mouth and spoken to them about the lost coin, the lost sheep, the shrewd steward who was going to get fired. And he better win some friends among the, the his master's debtors so he could have a couch to sleep on. And so he was telling the Pharisees that they have riches like the rich man, but they were not going to be a part of the kingdom. So he borrowed their own parable and incorporated it into his one long parable to tell them a lesson because they were snotty about sinners. But Jesus came to seek and to save that which is lost, the sinners. And you and, and if you don't understand these things, of course you're going to have a really nasty attitude about sinners. And, and Christians by and large have a nasty attitude about sinners. Oh, I would never smoke cigarettes. Oh, I would never have sex with the preacher's wife or whatever their idea is, right? I would never. And that's what the Pharisees were saying to Jesus. I would never hang out with sinners. I'm a Pharisee. I'm above and beyond that. And so the rich man and Lazarus is followed by or right there next to the prodigal son. The father loves both boys. The prodigal son who obviously doesn't deserve any special favors from the father. Oh my God. He spent it all on women and booze and, and the father loves this, the boy who stayed home and behaved himself. The father loves all, including sinners.

But yeah, so, so it is true. It is a fact that that Jesus did not invent the rich man and Lazarus. He borrowed it from Pharisaical literature and used it against them to, you know, tell them to behave themselves because they were not any more special. Yeah. But so like, what did you think happened with the, because we know the rich man and, and Lazarus, Lazarus both have, and I think it's kind of ironic because it's not the first time Lazarus is mentioned in the scripture. Uh, in the New Testament, I think it's the first, like, or in the Old Testament, it never happened, but in the New Testament, Lazarus was mentioned also as one of, I mean, obviously, one of the, the people God resurrected before he, he even, you know, died and resurrected. So he actually, like, brought, and he said they're only sleeping. So I think that's funny, but that's besides—

Um, he was also, uh, mentioned a different one, another time. And this Lazarus that died and then got resurrected, went to what we call the Abrahamic realm. I mean, 'cause you got Israel and you got the Gentiles. You got the believers and you got the unbelievers. That's, that's kind of how God is teaching us. Israel are believers. Gentiles are unbelievers. Like, that's the Old Testament, um, kind of image God's creating. And then you got Abraham, who's even before Israel. Um, but he's the father of all believers. And so the rich man does not go into the father of all believers. Instead, he goes to a place that even if Abraham wanted to go and help him, even give him a molecule of water, if he wanted to give him a mo— a hydron, hydrogen molecule, he could not do it because there is a great chasm separating them. And then you have Lazarus, who did meet Father Abraham and go inside his bosom, he is with the people of faith.

So my question is, despite that great chasm, that great separation that God had created, in the end, this is in, this is after all things have been put in subjection. This is the end because Jesus is prophesying. This is another prophecy that has not yet been seen 'cause creation hasn't ended. But once creation has ended, there will be the Abraham people of faith who are inside Abraham, and there'll be the separation of that with the great chasm that no one can go over to where there'll be men like the rich man. So my question is, what happens to the rich man ultimately?

Ultimately, the rich man will also be saved and reconciled through the blood of the cross, not through anything he did or did not do. But Christ's cross is so efficacious that it affects everybody throughout the universe. So says Colossians 1:20. And so in the context of Luke 14:15-16, um, you know, there's, there's a bit of explaining to do because so it begins, the parable begins with the lost sheep and the lost coin. Does he leave the 99 and seek the lost sheep? Yes. How long does he seek the lost sheep? Until he finds it. How long did— how long did the woman seek the lost coin until she found it?

Do goats exist or is that a temporary thing?

Oh, now we're going to hop to a different thing. That's Matthew 25.

No, no, no, no. It's the same thing. I'm actually like, kind of tying it into what you're ask— what you're saying. Since there's sheep that God finds, that also must mean there are goats which he does not care about. Is that good or is that—

It's, uh, irrelevant according to Luke 14:15-16. You have to over— look, you have to hop over to, uh, Matthew 25 to see this thing about sheep and goats. And so what do we see in Matthew 25:46? So it's a, it's a discussion. Matthew 25 is a discussion about when Jesus returns to earth. Okay? And this is at the beginning of the thousand-year reign of Christ. And so this judgment about the sheep and the goats is a national judgment. It's not an individual judgment. And in Matthew 25, there is no mention of any resurrection. That's not under the view of Matthew 25. Okay? And so the, the, the judgment of the sheep and the goats is the nations that are alive at the time Christ returns. They will be judged as to how they treated Israel, my brethren. And so some nations treated Israel well, and some nations treated Israel poorly. And it's a national judgment that begins at the be— at the beginning of the thousand-year reign of Christ. What do you think?

And it wouldn't be right, Julian. It would not be right to mix the sheep and the goats with the great white throne judgment which happens at the end of the thousand-year reign of—

Well, yeah, I agree with that. Um, I'm trying to understand like, so are the goats, so that when Jesus says, "I will separate the sheep and the goats." Um, do you think that's like national Israel, like, like 1948, or like, like the nation of Israel is what I mean on a physical level?

It is a national judgment and all of these nations will be judged according to their behavior and how they treated Israel, my brethren, Israel.

Right? So like—

So there'll be plenty of nations that are not even existent today that will not be part of that judgment. It has to be, there's no resurrection there. So all of the nations that are judged as sheep or goats are living nations at the time of Christ's return. I mean, there's pl— there's like the Aztec nation will not be there. The nation of Bafa no longer exists, you know, but the nations that are alive at, at Christ's return will be part of that sheep and goat business. But that that doesn't even, uh, mention the final salvation of God because the final salvation of God is affected by Christ's work on the cross. And those sheep and those goats are not judged by Christ's work on the cross. They're judged by what they did and did not do. And so that is a very narrow subplot. The sheep and the goats is a very narrow subplot. It has nothing to do with the grand orchestration of the salvation of all, God becoming all in all at the end of the eons. And it's a wonderful judgment. Matthew 25:46 is a wonderful judgment of living nations. But let's not exaggerate its scope and import. It all it has to do with Israel and, and which nations will be a part of the thousand-year reign of Christ and which nations will not be a part of.

I believe that when Jesus talks about the sheep and the goats, when he says he calls the nations to him, it's a, I use the word euphemism, but there's a better word for it. It's— I can't hear you if you're talking. Oh, um, sorry. Yeah, he, what he, what he means is by the nations in my belief and, and what I perceive it says when he says nations, he brings the nations before him. He's speaking of every person that exists because the Bible says that every nation will worship him. Every nation, every though in heaven there will be every nation. Meaning, I don't believe that means every nation. Everyone who's ever existed in Hitler and Stalin and, and everyone who's evil will be there with him worshiping him in the heavenly place. No, it doesn't mean that. What it means is is every people from every nation. It says people from every tongue and tribe will worship me because God has created every color, black. He has created yellow, you know, Asians, he's created black, he's created Slavic, he's created Chinese, he's created every ethnicity. And so for that reason, every ethnicity will praise him because he has reserved some from every tribe. So when, when it says like he separates the sheep from the goats, I think there are people, the sheep are his believers. And you could actually locate this in another place in the Bible. He says he will se— separate the wheat from the tears. Now, if the tears are just the nations that will once be brought, it'd be like saying this. Imagine Jesus putting together a nice meal, right? He's, he's getting the wheat together. He's separating the, the bad parts of the wheat that need to be thrown into the, the fire. And then imagine taking them after the fire, after their ashes are burned and are nothing, and then throwing them back in the, the wheat and making bread out of it. That's not, that's not God's will. His will is to separate the wheat from the tear 100%. And the tears will be thrown like a fire and there'll be no more. And I can prove it because the Bible says it is written that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have everlasting life. But those who don't will perish. Perish meaning they will be no more. They will be thrown into the lake of fire. So I think Satan will cease to exist and all unbelievers will also cease to exist. They won't be given eternal life. And I could also prove it because in the very beginning, it was this way. In the very beginning, when there was the tree of life, when Adam and Eve fell, God put a flaming sword in front of it and blocked them from eating of it. Why? Lest they shall live. Because if they ate from the tree of life, they will live. I believe that tree of life was Jesus. They were not allowed to eat from it in that moment because they will gain eternal life and they were meant to die because the first prophecy, like you said, was that if you eat of this tree on the day of it, you shall surely die. And so they were not allowed to get eternal life at that time because they were meant to die first and then be resurrected. So I don't think that everyone will eat from the tree of life. Only those who believe. So those who die and are not elected, do not believe, they will be thrown in the lake of fire and they will perish. They will not. Because Jesus said, "If you do not believe, you will perish." He didn't say, "If you don't believe, you'll perish, but then one day I'll reveal my secret mystery to you to bring you back to life." No, they'll perish. Because if you don't perish, Jesus dying on the cross and all of Israel, all the promises, everything from Joseph and guiding the people out of Egypt, all that was in vain. Everything is in vain. Because at the end of the day, we could all, even the testimony I gave you guys earlier, that was in vain. Why? Because what's the point of God selecting me and electing me when I wasn't seeking him? You know, out of my own will, my will is to be selfish. My will is dark. But God, he showed himself and I believed and that was an internal thing. You know, that was being born again. So I think it's very clear that being born again is an exclusive thing. Not everyone's going to receive it. And in the end, after Jesus brings all things in subjection to him, even that when he says he brings all things in subjection to him, he is the creator of all things, even the devil. Isaiah says it. He says, "I am the creator of the blacksmith. I am the one who who makes evil," essentially is what he is what he said.

So God has created all things, otherwise he wouldn't be God. He is the only one who is, he's holy. He's the only one who's not created. Everything in this world, even time is created. Even space, everything is created. And God dwells in a place beyond creation. So that's why he's holy. He's separate from all of us. So because of that, because he's holy, because he created everything, everything is in subjection to him automatically. And it will be made clear once everyone, even those who were rebelling against him will acknowledge him. But they won't acknowledge him the same way that the disciples did. They'll acknowledge him like the way Judas did. He hung himself because he knew he did wrong.

He was wrong.

So he hung himself. But he didn't go to heaven. He went to hell. And that's why he says, "All of none of you will be lost except the son of perdition." Son of perdition means wrath. It means God was against him automatically. That's why Jesus prophesied, you know, "One of you will betray me." "Is it me, Lord?" "Is it me?" No. Just like in the parable when he's when he's saying when he, when he, when he, when he separates them, he literally, the people who were doing good said, "Is it me? When did I help you?" They were, they weren't, see, they were meek. They knew they were sinners. And so it was by default that the believers, the meek are going to be exalted.

And the prideful are not, you know. So I do think there, not everyone's going to reign in God's kingdom. And if it were that way, the gospel is irrelevant. I just, I want everyone to know that all the believers, everyone listening, the gospel is irrelevant if everyone goes to heaven in the end. I promise you that. Because if everyone goes to heaven, there is no gospel. And the Bible says he actually, God is very clear that anyone who preaches another gospel other than one that, then the one that's given shall be cursed.

You know, the same way Jesus was cursed on the tree, dead. You know, God's wrath poured out on you. That's why Jesus said, "Why have you forsaken me?" Because God's wrath was poured out on him. God didn't really forsake him, but God wanted him. Just like Abraham had to bring his son up, God wanted to kill him for our purpose, for his purpose. So yeah, my, my main thing is just that because I know I spoke about the universalism thing.

Earlier. I don't. I, you know, I love the fellowship with everyone in here, but I do not, under any circumstance, I would not recommend in any way, shape, or form condoning universalism because that is demonic. Because it's not. It is against the gospel. The gospel is life-bringing. But once you start saying everyone inherits life, it's confusing because everyone doesn't inherit life. Jesus said, "If you don't believe, you will perish." He warned the Pharisees, "You will perish in your sins."

If I, if I may, Julian, what do you know about the word perish? The word perish does not mean. This is what I know about the word perish. It does not mean when Jesus says you shall perish, he means it. He doesn't mean I will resurrect you back in life. If that is the case, rightly divide the word of God and show me any time in the scriptures where Jesus says that a person will perish and then come back to life. No, he says you will die or go to sleep.

So what do you know about the lost coin and the lost sheep? Well, I'd rather say this. You tell me what you know about the lost coin and the lost sheep.

Okay. So, I, I can tell you for assurity, the word lost and the word perished are the exact same word in the Greek of the New Testament. So, the, the perished sheep shall be found and the perished coin shall be found. The reason we have lost and perished is because of English idiom. The Greek of the New Testament, the word lost, destroyed, and perished are all the same word. It's *apollumi*. A-p-o-l-u-m-i. Apollumi. Now they have it in their grammar that they can talk about the destroyed sheep and the destroyed coin and the perished coin and the perished sheep and the lost. See, it just works in their grammar. But in English grammar, we have to give it three different words. And so because of English grammar, some boys like you assume that perish is more serious than being lost. But it's the same word in the Greek of the New Testament. The lost sheep can be found. He's perished according to Greek grammar. He's destroyed according to Greek grammar, but it's not necessarily permanent. It's a regrettable, serious situation for the sheep to be *apollumi*. It's a regrettable, serious situation for the coin to be *apollumi*. But it's not necessarily a permanent situation because the lost sheep can and will be found because the shepherd seeks the sheep until he finds it. And the woman seeks that lost coin until she finds it. And so it's, it's just a, a mistake, a regrettable mistake that we assume that perish is more serious than lost. But I'm telling you, you can verify it. Just look up the word lost, destroyed, or perished, and you'll see that they're all the same word. It's *apollumi*. And so we wouldn't want to say that Jesus failed to save the lost because Jesus said with his own mouth, "The Son of Man came to seek and to save that which is *apollumi*." So will he save the *apollumi*? Yes, he will.

Well, the Bible, the, the, the chapters we're quoting here are, you know how in the beginning, uh, I believe it's James, for example, it says, "written to the lost tribes," or it might be Peter. Yes. Peter and James both said, said like that, the, the tribes in dispersion. Yeah, exactly, just like that. Um, that that is clearly like, just there are no tribes in the New Testament, if I may say. That's an Old Testament thing. But the reason he's saying that, the reason he's saying that is because truthfully, there was no Jew or Gentile. And it's, it's like that from the beginning with Adam. There was, he was a Gentile. If I may, if I may, there was no Israel. If I may, Abraham was a Gentile. There was no Israel yet. They were in the world. That Babel, it was all Gentile. Like, they're all the world. But the reason he says that is because it's a line of succession of faith because Israel, like in heaven, there's 12.

So may I ask you, did the Son of Man come into the world to seek and to save that which is *apollumi*? Yes. And so he came to seek and to save that which is destroyed? Well, lost, they translate it as lost, but yeah. Yeah, only because English grammar insists on that. But he came to seek and to save that which is perished, that which is lost, that which is.

I will have to correct you on that, Ace. I'll have to correct you on that.

Okay, go ahead. Because we can get to a point with words where if we nitpick with words, we go beyond God and we actually deny what he's saying.

Okay, forget the word *apollumi*. Did Jesus come into the world to seek and to save? He came into the world to seek and to save. Will he succeed in seeking and saving? He will. Wonderful. My question, my question is, why would you agree that Jesus seemed very sorrowful and he seemed very urgent about the needing to be saved in this eon? Oh, yes, that's true. Because, you know, being lost, being lost is a serious situation, but it, there's no reason to exaggerate it beyond all, beyond all scope. Because Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 1:15 says, "Christ Jesus came into the world to seek and to save." Not that I'm sorry, I'm mixing them up. "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners." Who does he save? He saves sinners. He doesn't save Christians. He saves sinners. Christ Jesus came into the world not to negotiate with sinners, but to save sinners.

But my question is, if you, if you know his heart, you know the heart of God, you know that Jesus came into the world for a purpose on this earth that is that will be revealed on this earth. And that revelation is life. It's, I know I'm saved. Meaning I know I'm found. Meaning that there are those who are not found. That there are those who are not saved. Do you think there are people that aren't saved? That's my question. Uh, they are not saved at the moment, but that doesn't speak to the ultimate salvation of God.

And spoke to the Pharisees and started whipping people. That was just to get a temporary reaction so that people can be saved on this eon. He found it very important that people be saved on earth even though he knows in the end they're going to be saved anyway after he puts all things in subjection to him. So his urgency was only for this eon, not the eon to come. The eon to come and this eon and all of God's eons are very important. They have a purpose and on this channel, uh, at the moment, we have been going over a doctrine called the doctrine of the eons. And you can go scroll backwards, uh, to some of the, we've been doing it for the last two or three weeks. Um, the doctrine of the eons because the word eon, *aion*, *aion* shows up 199 times in the Bible and most Christians are very confused about the eons because most Bibles do a hack job on the word *aion*. It shows up 199 times and the perfect English word to represent the word *aion* is the word eon. But in most Bibles, here's how they translate it: eternal, forever, age, world, never, ever, forever and ever. One time it's translated course. C-O-U-R-S-E. Course. There, they do a real hack job on the word *aion*. But it's the easiest word to translate. If you want to be consistent, just use the word a-e-o-n for the word *aion* because the word eon has an adjective eonian. And it, it unveils a lot of new truth that has been lost over the years because God has a purpose for creating the eons of time. And he created them for a purpose and that purpose is to become all in all when the eons come to an end. And when the eons come to an end, that's when eternity really begins.

I have a question though, like when, okay, cuz like I know I, I wasn't sure who's being universalist in here, but universalism in the scriptures. My question for you, Ace, as as my friend, is why in Revelation does it say their smoke will go up forever? It doesn't say that. It doesn't. It says their smoke will go up for the eons of the eons. Which means forever? No, it doesn't. Cuz eon of eon doesn't mean one eon. See, look. If there's one eon, look, let no one go beyond scripture. Let anyone, let me, uh, let me give you some insight into that phrase, the eon of the eons.

Hold on. Let's just focus on the verse real quick because if we could focus on the verse, we can actually understand it. Yeah, of course. Yeah. There's one eon. This eon and then there's the eon to come. No, there's two more to come. There's only, there's only, there's only two eons. No, there's two to come. Because Jesus said. Paul says in Ephesians that, uh, blessed be the Father for the eons of the eons. There's at least two more to come. When he says eons of eons, that doesn't, that is a phrase meaning it pretty much means forever. Because what happens when you multiply something by infinity or multiply something by zero?

Okay. So how many lords are there? Value. So if you say something is multiplied by zero, it becomes zero. If you multiply anything, any number by infinity, it becomes infinity. So when you say eon of eons, it multiplies it by itself. It means forever. So when, when Jesus says, and, and, and let's focus more on what Jesus said. I agree with all of the word of God. It's all Jesus inspired. But let's focus on the direct words of the man himself who warns about heaven and hell. He says, he speaks about this age and then the age to come. That's right. There's only two ages. These eternity with Christ, the marriage supper of the Lamb, right? That's one. And then there's this current earthly age. I could prove it in another verse. "Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." That evil one that you said is destroyed. See, there's only two ages. There's the age of the devil, of the prince of the power of the air. That's earth. And then there's the age of Jesus's reign forever. The millennial reign of Christ. Some people say that's a thousand years. Is it a thousand or is it forever? It's a thousand. Because you just read it at the beginning of my discussion with you. You just read that Jesus Christ will give up his kingdom to the Father and he will abolish all rulership, authority, and power. And he must reign until. The word until is a very, very special word. He must reign until he puts all of his enemies under his feet. And once he puts his enemies under his feet, his reign is no more. But honestly, in my mind, honestly, honestly, and I know that's going to hurt a lot of people in their Trinitarian, like, in their minds, but I have no issue saying that that Jesus is the Father. That confuses people and that's okay because it's not for everyone to understand. God is not easily understood. But I do know this, that the mind of Jesus is God. So when I, when the mind of Christ that governs all things is God. So when he gives up his reign to God, however that works, I don't understand that. But I will say.

I'm glad that you're admitting that you don't understand it.

I don't. Because. But it is understandable. Because even God said, even Jesus said that he did not consider it robbery to be counted equal with God. So he humbled himself and became a man. So because of that, because he knows, he literally says he knows that men can't understand it. It is hard for men to understand. Even he was even kind to Philip when Philip asked about showing us the Father. He didn't say, "Yes, I'll show you the Father and the kingdoms to come." He didn't say that. He says, "Philip, if you see me, you see the Father," because he and the Father are the same. We don't worship two gods or three or four.

Mhm. And honestly, I believe in the Holy Spirit. I believe in the Father and I believe in the Son. Mhm. But there's a fourth one that people forget. It's the Word. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." I'm not a quadritarian. I'm, I believe God is one. He just presents himself in multiple facets of reality. But he's the same person, same consciousness, same mind, you know. And so that same mind, that same person, that same God who will rule all things in the end, the same person we've always prayed to, he is Jesus. He's the same. I, I mean, I have no issue with that.

But when I say these things, I, I really just want to focus on the fire goes up forever. How many times does the word *aion* show up or the the Greek word *aion* show up in the New Testament? Uh, how many times? 199 times. What may we learn by doing a concordant study of the word *aion*? What would that be? We learned that the eons had a beginning and the eons, plural, have an end. We learn that the, the first three eons of time are evil and the last two eons of time are good and they're so good that they're called the eons of the eons. Now, this kind of phrase in the Hebrew culture is called the *palilaton*. I'm sure you've heard of the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords and the Holy of Holies. So when you take a noun and make a dual composite of it, the Holy of Holies, you're saying that this particular place is the holy, uh, the holiest of all holies. The Lord of Lords is the lord of all lords. The King of Kings is the king of all kings. And so the eons of the eons are the best two eons in God's eonian purpose. Okay? And we know that this is a better way to understand it because it's the genitive case. I don't know if you understand this, but genitive means possessive. So it's of the, but in the mo, in most Bible translations, they don't translate it the ends of the, say forever and ever. This the word and is not there. It should be, if you want to go with forever, then let's say for the ever of the ever be a more correct translation for the ever of the ever has a different meaning and flavor to it than just forever and ever.

Cuz like, look, this happens even in the world, right? There's a battle of homosexuality and genders. You may say, well, how does that have to do anything with eons? Well, this whole gender thing where people want to argue on a scientific basis how many genders there are. I think it's insanity, but it's possible to get sucked into it. It's possible to say, "Well, maybe there's more than two genders." Maybe there's. And I believe the Holy Spirit just gave me this, by the way. But I believe there's more than two genders. There's four. No, no, no, no, no. There's not four. There's five. No, no, no, no, no. There's eight. Well, well, no. Maybe there's unlimited genders. Well, we know this comes from Satanism. It's rooted in Satanism. But.

Same with eons. You say, "Well, there's one eon." No, no, no. There's obviously two eons. That's how God made it. Beginning on earth and then in heaven forever. Well, no. There's three eons. Wait, no, there's four eons. There's unlimited eons. Well, regardless of how many eons one person might speculate that there are, the scripture says eon and eon, right? It says eon and eon. So our eon of eons, however it says it, it means permanently. For every eon that there ever is, I believe there's two, but for all eons, their smoke will go up. And what that means is the state of their judgment remains forever. For every eon, forever, permanently. It's a sign forever, for eternity, for all of existence. It's like when Jesus said, "Not one tittle, not one jot will pass away from the law until heaven and earth pass away." Well, that means nothing will apart from the law until this eon is over. Well, in the same way, the final book, the book of Revelation says the smoke will go up until everything passes away, which until the eons end, which means forever. Because if time ends, you got yourself in a conundrum. That means nothing exists. But that's not how God made it. God made time to go on forever and ever. So their smoke, in the same way, will go up forever and ever. Therefore, proving undeniably.

Okay. So then I'll conclude that you believe Jesus failed at the cross. He, to save all. He came into the world to save sinners, but he will fail to save sinners.

That's twisting my words in any way. I, I, I feel the freedom to trust your words because you're saying sin is eternal. And therefore Christ failed to save at the cross.

Even in the desert, in the wilderness, not all look to the cross and perish.

So what? They perished and they died in that.

Perished or *apollumi*? To the cross. Is a serious situation, but it's not the same word as. One who wants to follow me must pick up the cross and deny himself, and we're all sinners. I have failed to do that at times, but honestly, you must pick up your cross and follow him if you want to be worthy of him. And if you don't do it, if you don't.

So he only saves the worthy. Okay, I get you.

Exactly. He only. He doesn't save sinners. He only saves the worthy. And you are a Pharisee.

That's not a Pharisee. It's. You are a Pharisee. You would never eat with sinners. You're just like the Pharisees. Oh, I would never eat with sinners.

No, that's not true. He only saves the worthy. Julian says. Jude prophesied of people. He only saves those who are worthy to save. And screw everybody else. Screw the sinners who are not worthy to be saved. Just Julian, Jill, they're worthy to be saved. Oh yeah.

I don't know. I, I gave you my testimony. I don't know when you came to Christ. I haven't got your testimony. I'm new to here. I've never. But I want to say this. I don't know if you're doing this on purpose or if you actually know what you're doing, but hopefully God will show you. But if he doesn't.

I get it. I'll quote you. God only saves the worthy.

Okay, I got you. He doesn't save the unworthy. And that's not fair.

God does not save the unworthy. Make yourself worthy. Hurry it up before it's too late. Anyone listening, the Bible says that those who are not dressed in the clothing of the Lamb, they will be thrown out from the heavenly gates. You must be clothed by the blood of Jesus to be saved. You must be written in the Lamb's book of life. He saved those who are written.

You must, or you're screwed.

Exactly. You must make yourself worthy.

Can I chime in on this or?

Go ahead, Mr. Source.

Sure. How's it going? How's it going, guys? Uh, uh. Oh, by the way, Mr. Source.

Yeah. You make yourself worthy and hurry it up. Okay.

So, uh, yeah, Julian, I, I think that, uh, I, I, I mean, now maybe you can correct me here, but it seems to me that you're like, you, the, the passages that you're interpreting are like, there's, they are very nebulous, man. They're very abstract. There's nothing really tangible about them. And you think that your clarification of these passages is somehow the only possible way that it could be. Like, let me, let me just ask you. Is it possible that somewhere along the way throughout your life, you might change your mind about what it says? Do you think there's anything that might reveal itself to you or anything?

I, I, I love Jesus Christ genuinely, and I'm not a liar. But I do believe there are liars out there. Do you agree? That's right. And God only saves the worthy. Do I, do I agree that there? Do I agree that there are liars out there? I mean, I feel like I feel like even that leaves a lot of like, like I almost need you to tell me what you mean by lying. I mean, like, like every parent that tells their kid Santa Claus comes down their chimney is a liar. Are they? So is so when you say lie, are you, are you assigning bad to a lie like definitively or?

I believe that the Satan has the, the accuser. He has a split tongue and he only knows how to lie. Do you believe that? Um, no. I, I don't believe that. If he only knew how, if he, if he only knew how to lie. Like the best lies have a little bit of truth intermingled with them. So he would have to, he would have to be able to tell.

You got to study scripture more, Source. I got to tell you, brother. Ace knows what I'm saying is true. Cuz.

Well, I mean, I would actually make an argument that suggests that the, uh, that God, if you were to actually, like, per my interpretation of it, is nothing more than the personification of fear, you know?

I just think at the end of the day, either submit to Jesus Christ as Lord and you love him with all your heart. You might fail, you might be a sinner, but then.

And again, that's a, that's a very vague thing, though. What does that even mean? Like, there's there's a whole lot that goes into what you just said, right? Like to just drop that line to somebody who, let's say that you're talking to somebody who has no exposure to any kind of religion at all and you just say that. You think they're going to understand what the hell you're talking about?

I don't. But that's not. Look, Jesus said to the Samaritan woman, he said, "We know the God who we worship." That's for the Jews that because they have religious background. The Bible also says in another spot that those who perish without the law, those who die without the law will die without the law. If you don't have, if you don't understand the things of Christ and you, you don't understand, then that's just what it is. But, but, but so to Ace's claim, like, just to, just to kind of like, just try to, you know, say it in a different way. It, it, see, like what the Pharisees were doing, what, like underneath what they were doing, what they were actually doing was they were actually saying that they know the absolute definite interpretation of all of these things. And, and every time you quote a passage from the Bible and use it to support your argument, you're basically saying that my interpretation is law. I know the best. I, there's no way that anyone that I could be wrong. There's no way that it's, it's sort of presupposed by by your representation there. And it's like, but you just admitted a moment ago that you might change your mind about it. So I don't, there seems to be an inconsistency there.

Violet is. Yeah. Yeah. I know who Pontius Pilot is. Or who he was. Anyways.

In your current state right now, you're like Pontius Pilot because you can't find truth and you won't find it. I'll tell you why.

Well, I'm telling you the truth is what I'm doing.

No, you're not telling me the truth. This is your truth.

I am. No. No. The truth is.

Your truth is. The truth is. The truth is what I say, not what you say.

Is what is truth? This is your truth. It's not Jesus.

Your truth isn't Jesus. If it were, you'd say Jesus.

Okay. So, now you're acknowledging that I can have a truth and you can have a truth. Is that what you're saying?

There is truth and then there's lies.

There's truth and then there's lies. Okay.

In your mind, this is a lie out of your heart. What is truth?

Could you define a lie? It's just a lie.

I defined a lie. I defined the lie earlier and you disagreed with me. You, you.

I did. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. I didn't disagree with you. I actually asked you questions about it and you, you failed to clarify further. But I asked you a split, a complete direct question and I said, I bet Ace would agree cuz he's very studied it in the scripture.

Well, I understand that, but I'm saying that the best liars truth in with their lies and you didn't, you didn't acknowledge that.

Would you agree? Would you agree that the.

Hold on, Julian. Let me just ask you the question again. Like maybe let me clarify the question. Would you agree that the best liars mix in a whole bunch of truth with their lies in order to sell them? Would you agree with that?

Most effective liars tell mostly the truth.

That if a little bit of lies are mixed in, it's all a lie.

Well, I mean, if you want to conflate it all. Yeah, sure. I mean, but you're still conflating.

And in so, and in so doing, you're truncating your logical deduction of of a lie. If you had a jar of clean water and someone threw a turd in there and you drank it, would you say it's good water or bad water? It's bad water. Doesn't matter that there's good water in.

That's not an. That's not analogous to what we're talking about, bud.

It is analogous because if you take and you mix it with lies.

Well, the water still, Julian, you can throw a turd into the water and but the water is still the water and the turd is still the turd. There's two still two separate things. They are mixing together. Sure. But we can actually unmix them to be purified and removed of of the lies for it to become true.

So, so to use your, so to use your analogy against you, I would say that. So, basically, all right, so we threw, and you know what? Let's not just make this a nice solid turd. Let's make it like, you know, a nice creamy one. Okay. A nice creamy one. Throw it in the water. Right. It's totally mixed in with that water. And what you're claiming is that you can sift all of the water out perfectly without without having any feces left in that water. And you're the only one who can't. And any only the people who completely agree with you are the only ones who can. Everyone else has still got a little bit of crap in their water. That's, that's basically what you're saying.

Purification. And it is possible. So what are, what are your qualifications to be the only one who has the proper interpretations of.

I never said that for one.

Well, no, it's, it's implied. You're, you're literally. It is the. It is the only inference that any rational person would take from the way you're presenting yourself.

Uh, Mr. Source, could you read the call out on the screen right there?

Uh, "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, not the worthy." What? So what.

Saying actually, but once again, I love that saying, but this is what I'm trying to say.

Someone has hot cocoa.

I don't have nothing to say. I'm just chilling.

So you know what though? I think at this time, man, I, I actually chimed in because the prompt on your channel actually raised a question for me that that really, uh, was intriguing to me and I was going to ask you, Ace. Uh, so it's where is the stupid Christian doctrine of free will in 1 Corinthians? Are, are you, uh, do you believe in free will or do you are you saying that that there is no free will?

There is no free will. We have a will, but it's not free. It's not free of causality. It's not free of influence. It's not free of constraint.

Okay. Okay. All right. So, I, I've actually, I don't think I've ever encountered a Christian make that claim before. So, that's that's interesting to me. Uh, I mean, I'm not saying they're not out there, but I've just never heard of that. You're actually the. This is like. So, I'm, uh, kind of intrigued. I was, I was actually hoping I could, uh, uh, hear more about that. And then I guess, uh, morality, how do does morality fit into free will? And like, are they like, are they influencing one another? And how, how do you, what's your worldview on that? My so-called worldview is that humans have a will, but our will is all bound up in being mortal. And Paul says in Romans 5:12 that, uh, Adam sinned and that sin brought about mortality and that mortality was passed through into all mankind and because mortality was passed through into all mankind, that's why we sin.

So in the grand scheme of God, if he can get rid of mortality, that gets rid of sin.

Okay. Okay. So, and, and in the grand scheme of God, he will get rid of mortality. Death is the last enemy to be abolished. And in that great day, we will all sing the wonderful doxology, "Oh death, where is your sting?" And it won't exist anymore because death won't exist anymore. Everyone will be made alive in Christ, unable to die again, unable to sin, unable to steal food because you, you're hungry. And if mortality is gone, we can't even feel insecurities and low self-esteem because we are immortal.

So, so can I just ask you a question about that? Um, so if, uh, so sin, I, I guess could you, would you mind just defining that for me from your worldview? So that.

Sure. Yeah. The most, uh, I think one of the most revealing passages about sin is in Genesis and it, it talks about this tribe of, uh, left-handed guys. There were 700 people in this tribe and they were all left-handed and it said that they could hit the target when slinging a stone. They could hit the target within a hair's breadth and not sin. The King James said they could hit the target and not miss. But the word miss and the word sin are the same thing. And so what sin is, is just missing the mark. Whatever the mark is, then you kind of have to try to hit the mark before you miss the mark.

Okay? And so, so sin, sin is not an impossible obstacle to God. Sin is a prerequisite to salvation. We cannot know salvation until we know sin. Yeah. And God makes sure. God makes sure that we're all thoroughly acquainted with sin, condemnation, and death.

Okay. So, so it sounds to me like presupposed in that definition is, uh, is sort of obviously a goal, right? There has to be a goal and like there has to be a mark in order to miss it. Right.

Right. Right. And what would you say the mark is?

Uh, any number of things. You know.

Jealousy. Jealousy would be, you know, a sign that you're missing the mark. Insecurity, low self-esteem.

So that's what I'm asking. What would be the mark like of jealousy? So if we're using that as an example for specificity, I guess I was just looking for a generalization, but since you gave an example, a specific example, what would you say would be the mark, uh, if when it comes to the sin of jealousy? Uh, I guess not being jealous, of being loving and kind toward the person you're jealous about and wanting the good for them.

Okay. All right. I, I, I agree with that. I mean, I say it all differently, but I think I, I honestly think that we very much have very similar, uh, similar worldviews. Um, but I, I guess, um, so but now this just leads to a question. So, do you believe that people are in control of whether or not they sin?

I don't think so. I think, uh, it's baked into the cake because we are born mortal. Even a little baby dies or can die before they ever sin because Romans 5:12 says that death was passed through into all mankind and that's why we all sin. So we are all going to be acquainted with death and as we grow old from the beginning of our birth, we will sin. It's just baked into the cake. Sin is a prerequisite. It's not an impossible obstacle to God.

Okay. So, so in generally speaking, we're going to sin. We don't have any control over that. But what about like in a specific occurrence? So like there's a specific occurrence, uh, where jealousy might may or may not be roused pending, uh, the person, we'll say. Do you think the person has a hand in that at all or do you think God's pretty much in charge of it all?

In the grand scheme of things, God is in charge of it all.

All right, man. So let me ask you, dude. Uh, you, you like debating like a, like you would, you would make a, a good ally, bro.

Oh, yeah. Uh, uh, well, I mean, I just enjoy debates. I'm a theist. I believe everything you just said. I wouldn't necessarily label myself as Christian. Uh, to be honest with you, I've kind of.

I knew you weren't Christian. I knew you were.

I kind of exp. Well, I, I don't think Christians are actually Christian. Actually, Ace, you are the first real Christian I ever met, bro. Like, I, I mean that, dude. I really do.

You're. And, uh.

I'll show you. Let me, let me ask you because I'm just chiming in from earlier. Um, Ace, did you agree when I said that from Satan comes lies and only lies? Did you agree?

I can go with that because he's the father of lies.

Right? And you know some of the things he has said like to Eve, "You won't really die." Well, that was the first great lie. And it's the most popular lie even to this day because even Christians don't believe that you die when you die. Death is another form of life. It's not the end of life.

But he told them that they would know what God knows. I mean, I don't think that they became God when they. So, it was obviously a lie. So, I mean, but if, if I may, and I'm just going to throw this out there for you guys in inspection, okay? Like, you can throw it away if you don't like, but this is, uh, um, I believe that in that garden of Eden, it actually is the best explanation we have for human suffering, period, okay? And I believe that when we're talking about Satan the devil talking to Eve, okay, what he's basically, what basically what's actually happening is she's having a conversation. And same thing with, I guess, the, the posited explanation with Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, right? Who is he talking to? Who do he go off to talk to, right? And I think it's like you're talking to their own fear. You know what I mean? And if you really think about, if you really analyze fear, like in, in an instance, right? Uh, it, it basically tells you lies. It tells you things that aren't true in order to, uh, in order to cause pain, okay? In order to cause suffering. It, it tell, it does tell things that are so, uh, so I can give you an, a specific example of what I'm talking about would be like, um, uh, say a person has a fear to succeed or or their fear of failure. We'll say they have a fear of failure and what, how this generally manifests, right? And, and a lot of, a lot of times would be like, well, fear is sitting there, I'm just going to personify fear for for the sake of my explanation and say, well, fear is now sitting there saying, hey, whispering in your ear, hey, listen, man, you might fail. You could, you go out and try and you fail and, you know what? Then you're going to know you're a loser, okay? So why don't you just not even try? Then you can tell yourself that you would succeed if you tried. Don't try. Stay here with me. And then, and then the suffering that comes is the actual failure that the person was afraid of in the first place. It's like the fear of the failure actually causes the failure. And that's, that's fear. And those are the lies that it tells. It convinces you you're not good enough. It says you can't do this. It says, uh, you know, all, all kinds of like, you know, whatever the fear specific fear is. And I believe that's what the devil actually is. So now it mixes in a lot of truth in order to be convincing. It, it has to. Like a, a lie that's that has no truth mixed with it is not convincing and ergo, it would not be effective. So an effective liar has to tell some truths in there, right? There has to be something in there that's true, or else. And then, and then to your analogy, Julian, I, I mean, I don't, I don't disagree with your analogy either. I'm just, I, I'm saying that you're, uh, I don't want to be mean or anything like that. Um, but I, I mean, I'm just saying that you're like almost doing the thing that you're saying that it is. Like, it, uh, you're, you're like performing that it's reflective in what you're saying. Uh, the moment that I judge somebody for anything in a negative way, I'm literally, uh, doing something that I wouldn't be okay with someone doing to me because I don't want to be judged in a negative way. So that very, that very action, that internal mental action is like, I, I, you know, not to use an inflammatory word, but I would say that every time I do that, I'm actually a hypocrite and I think I know better than God and I'm listening to the devil. And because of that, the world is split into good and evil and now the, and that, and now I open the door to shame and pride and all of the sins and now I open the door to all the suffering and that opens the door to scarcity and, uh, and all that. And if I can just trust God, then I won't listen to the devil. The world won't be fractured into a false dichotomy. Uh, shame can't occur. Uh, it's literally needs that in order to even exist. Judgment can't occur. It needs that in order to exist. And, uh, and I'm basically living in utopia, you know what I mean? Floating around in the Garden of Eden, metaphorically speaking, uh, completely impervious to pain, uh, born again, or whatever. Uh, anyways, I didn't mean to go on that diatribe, man. I, I feel like I went a little too far, but, um, uh, but anyways, Ace, the point what I'm saying is is that like, you, you have the, as far as I'm concerned, anytime I've ever, I've never heard a Christian interpret the Bible in that way, and I believe it is far more, uh, far more effective and far more, uh, far more truthful than most of your mainstream Christian interpretations. Is that a school of Christianity or is that like just your own thing or is there like a denomination that that you're a part of that all kind of agree with you or?

There's a kind of a movement. You can find a lot of literature over at concordant.org.

Concordant.

Concordant.org is the, uh, the guys who about 110 years ago, they began to make a translation based on a principle that one English word should only represent one Greek word as near as possible. So they ended up after a decade or more issuing the Concordant Literal New Testament.

Okay. Yeah. I definitely would like, I would like to know more about this. This is interesting to me. There's hundreds of articles, hundreds or thousands of articles over there about re-examining regular Christian theology in light of a concordant literal translation of the Bible.

Okay. And then, and, and back to what Julian was saying that he did raise a point that, uh, that it does seem to be almost a contradiction to that which I actually agree with and, and I'm not really, I don't particularly have a way to reconcile it and it would be, it does appear like, like you said, like I don't believe that people are in control of their sin either. I think that causality, which is God or whatever, uh, is actually in charge of that. And so at the same time, I don't know that people are necessarily in charge of being saved, right? Uh, which, which kind of gives a little bit of credence to the idea that there are those that that you're chosen if you are.

You know what I mean? I don't, I don't know how to, I don't know how to combat that that claim. You know what I mean? It's like, it does appear to it, that does appear to be true to me.

Um, so it's, it's almost like there's a little bit of a paradox there, right? Mhm. That I, uh, do, do you have any, what's your, uh, what's your take on that, Ace?

Uh, yes, the chosen who are chosen are chosen for a purpose and they are chosen for a larger purpose, larger than themselves. And so chosen Israel is part of their purpose is to, in the, in the thousand-year reign of Christ, to head up all the nations and bring all the nations back to God. The, the chosen that we call the church, which is his body, which is Jew or Gentile, neither Jew nor Gentile, they are chosen according to Paul's revelation in Ephesians. They are chosen to bring back all the heavenly creatures, the celestial beings, back to God. And so our, the choosing of us, saved Israel and, and the Gentiles as well, were chosen for a purpose. Not, not to be that purpose, but for the purpose of bringing all back to God.

Okay. But that, but that still leaves the question though, like, uh, the selection process, like.

The selection process happened before the eons of time.

Well, no, and you know what? I actually agree with that. I, I agree with that. But even still, it's like, let's say you're not one of the chosen.

Uh, then does that just mean you're cursed? Are you just left behind? Are you just like, like where does that, uh, like, like, um, how is that justified? Why are some people chosen or some people not? Like, and listen, I, let me, let me put it to you like from my anecdotal, like my own emotional con, uh, uh, contention with this idea that I still is like, well, okay, so let's say that I feel like I'm one of the chosen, right? Let's, let's just say. But then I have a brother that I love very much who, who I would die for. You know what I mean? Like, I would absolutely die for him. As a matter of fact, uh, I, uh, I would actually rather it be him that was than me.

Yeah. But yet here I am. Like, like, do you see what I'm saying here? Like, like how come he's not, he's a better person than me, man. Like when we were growing up, like I was a wretch, you know what I mean? And then I was saved to not be a wretch anymore and he's kind of digressed from where he was and, and it seems like he, I don't, am I making any sense? Do you see where.

Sure. What do you, what would you, what would you, uh, offer as, uh, as reconciliation to that contention?

Well, uh, during the eons of time, um, the story has to play out. And the story is rather complex. I mean, we have everything from Adam in the garden to the flood to Jesus being put on the cross to the thousand-year reign of Christ, the great white throne, and this, the lake of fire. The story has to play out, but at the end of the story, that's when the great reconciliation happens.

Oh, I see. Okay. So, you're saying at the, eventually everybody gets chosen.

You and your brother will fall on each other's neck in that day and say, "Oh my God, I'm so happy."

"I'm so happy." In fact, there's a movie. We were just going over a movie like two weeks ago called The Game, starring Michael Douglas. Um, yeah. Yeah. Not familiar. Yep.

I watched it three times in seven days, and I could see every, metaphorically, every doctrine that we teach on this channel, I could see it in that movie.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you know, I, I mean, I saw it years ago when I was a, when probably a teenager. I don't, I don't think I was equipped to notice stuff like that at the time.

Let me give you the, let me give you the metaphorical plotline of that movie.

Okay. Michael Douglas got caught up in the game. He didn't know if it was a game, but nothing that happened to him was his own doing. It was all brought about by the company that put the game on. So, the company is God. Everything that happened to him during the game was brought about by the company. Okay? God is the company. He brings everything into our life. The bullets, the explosions, the crazy stuff, the chase scenes. I mean, everything was orchestrated by the company. And, and we can see the parable of the prodigal son because Sean Penn was the wayward son who, who got Michael Douglas into the game. And there was some animosity between those two boys. And then we could see, um, the, the parable that the Michael Douglas character was full of himself. Absolutely prideful. He was a, he was a bazillionaire investment banker, right? He lived in a mansion by himself. He was full of himself. He looked down his nose at everybody. He was better than everybody. And then the game starts, and he doesn't know what the game is, and he doesn't even know he's in the game, and he's not sure about anything anymore. This is of God to bring us to the point where we're not sure about anything anymore. And then we can see the first death and the second death in that, in the metaphor of the movie because Michael Douglas at one point wakes up in a Mexican graveyard. That's his first death. And then at the very end of the game, he thinks that he's killed his own brother. He's so depressed, instantly depressed, that he commits suicide. He dives off of the 10-story building, crashes through two plate glass windows into a bunch of airbags. It's his second death, and then he's brought out of the airbags, and he's reunited with his brother and every participant in the game. And there's a wonderful reconciliation there. And so, there's no free will involved. It's all God all the time. And it's bringing him to the end of himself. And it's bringing him to a reconciliation with his brother and every member of the game that, that's on the screen. And I just, I, every time I got to the end of the movie, I saw it three times in seven days. I was in tears. Right on.

You know, you know, actually, the, the Matrix does that for me, man. I don't know if you, if you like the Matrix or not.

I do. I do. Yeah.

Yeah. The Matrix is really.

Yeah. Well, hey, listen, man. Thanks for, uh, thanks for sharing all that with me, but, uh, uh, I'm going to subscribe to your channel and I'll, I'll chime in again sometime. And, uh, um, do you do debates or do you, are you into that or you not really prefer to not engage like with, like say with specifically with atheists? Do you have, do you debate atheists at all?

No. I've had atheists come over here to debate me, but they melt. They say, "Oh my God, you're right."

Yeah. Well, maybe I'll call upon you.

I don't tell atheists that they need to change their minds. I just say, "You belong to God. Even in your current condition and your current belief system, you, you belong to God. You are his. He owns you." What are they going to say to that? Nobody can deny that God owns us all. He created us all for a purpose.

Well, I think that they'll, I think they can raise argument to that. Some of them are very clever, man. But, uh, but yeah, uh, this is a lot of fun, man. And I'll, I'll chime back in at another time. I have to get going, though. But, uh, yeah, and maybe we'll, uh, maybe I'll see if you want to team up with me in, in a debate or something at some point.

Sure. All right. All right, man. It's a pleasure, man. Thanks. Uh, thanks for having me. I'll talk to you later. And, uh, Julian, keep at it, buddy. Stay the course.

Thank you, bro.

Yes, sir. Man, listen, man. There's nothing wrong with being wrong. Just, just know that. You know what I mean? Like, it's, uh, And I'm not saying you are either. I'm not saying you are. I'm saying that was saying, all I was saying earlier was that, um, the Bible is objectively true. Not my opinions, but God is objectively truth. That's all I was trying to say.

No, no. I, you know what? I don't disagree with that statement, man. I completely agree.

That's all I meant to say earlier in the beginning.

But, but, but it is very abstract and it leaves a lot of room for in, like, here, let me say it a different way. In its abstraction, the levels of truth that can, can be that can be taken from the Bible is, I don't believe any human being could ever get to the bottom of it. Like, I, I just don't, I just don't think. I think some of the past.

What's that?

I, I saying that's why I, I knew what you were trying to say, but I actually do believe there's there's many types of spirits out in this world. There's many different beliefs, but there's only one truth. And I'm not saying it's everything I'm saying, but I'm saying that truth can be seen. It's, it's called light. It's called.

Well, let me tell you what I think about that, right? I, I agree that we can get closer approximations to the ultimate truth, but to see the ultimate truth, all of it, like, which is like, I don't think that our actual brains have the processing power to do so. But even if they, and even if they did, then you would become God himself.

But you would just, you would just and be gone and you would be God.

Every facet of God. Just because you don't understand everything about God does not mean God doesn't exist. And it does not mean you don't understand God on some level. Because the Bible says that everyone knows that God exists, but that people are in their unrighteous thinking suppress the the knowledge of the truth and they darken it, they hide it because they don't want to believe, otherwise they'll be held accountable.

Yeah, actually, you know, the fig leaf in the, uh, in the garden of Eden, I believe is representative of what you just said. Like, like we, they hide their, it's like hiding your humanity.

Good point. That is a very good point, Source. I, I agree with you. That is a very.

Wow. That is a very good point. Because Adam and Eve, once they sin for the first time, they hide themselves.

They hide. Yep. They hide. They hide. They hide something that, like. And if you think about it too, man, like, why are, why do you need to wear clothes? What, like, like where does that even come from? A dog don't give a dog can run around naked. Nobody cares.

Exactly. Exactly. But, I, but I would be disturbed if some naked dude went running down the street. You know what I mean?

Do you know the second part to that?

With the fig leaves. Some people say that's the law. Like, we try to clothe ourselves with good works and doing good to cover our, our error.

No, I believe that. I believe that it is, uh, a human being is in denial of many of the qualities that make him a human being. Actually, when we were talking about movies, I would say that there's a line in The Matrix where they're sitting there eating this nasty food, and this, this guy's talking about how he has a, a hologram that he made or whatever, that you can go in and there's a red woman, a woman in a red dress that he can arrange a personal meeting with, and everyone scoffs at him. They all scoff at him and say, "Oh, the digital pimp hard at work." And then he, and he turns around and he says, "To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human." And interestingly enough, like almost like there's a darkness inside all of us that we, that we don't want to wrestle with. We want to deny that it's even there. And it, it, it's not attractive. You know, there are human qualities that every one of us possess that are just not attractive. And it's not uncommon for people to deny that they even have them at all. So.

I'm an example. And, and so I, and so, and then, and then psychologically, they, they actually call it cognitive dissonance.

Uh, oh, yeah. Cognitive dissonance.

Yeah.

Before you go.

I also want to talk about, um, cuz you, you mentioned the leaf thing, like, you know, how they were naked and stuff, and then God was like, "Who told you you were naked?" Um, you know, how God clothed them with an animal skin right after that?

No, I don't remember that. I.

He actually clothed them with, I believe it. You could search it out for yourself after this. He clothed them with lambskin, and it's actually a prophecy of Jesus because after they disobeyed God for the first time, because Satan was able to confuse them and deceive them, and they didn't know any better, they just were deceived. Once they sinned and fell from the garden, from their good relationship with God, God actually came to them and clothed them with that lambskin, and that is a foreshadowing of Jesus. If you look out throughout all of scripture, the lamb is Jesus Christ because Jesus, even in the end of scripture, the very last book, it says that.

I understand the lamb is very symbolic, you know.

It's symbolic of death, of Christ. So, the death of Christ, we are clothed with Christ. And that's what I was saying earlier when I was talking to Ace, I was saying that there are those who are kicked out of, it's an analogy, it's called the marriage supper of the lamb in heaven, and some people come in there without clothes on, and he's like, "You don't have on your proper clothing for this attire, for, or for this, uh, the proper attire for this event. You have to get out of here and get kicked out and go where all, you know, the dogs and the sorcerers are." So that's an analogy for heaven. So, like, there'll come a point where those who are clothed in Christ will be accepted into eternal life, and then those without Christ. But, and I want to tie this into election, that there was, there are people who are chosen by God to understand him, to be born again, to be able to believe. Just believe. It's just belief. It's just faith. It's not works. It's, it's just believing Jesus. Because once you believe him, that changes everything. It will change your works. It will. And God will work on your behalf when you believe him. But if you don't believe him, you already are condemned because you don't believe in the Son of God. So, once you believe in Jesus, once you're clothed by him, that is when you're brought into relationship with him. But if you're not clothed by him, and most people aren't, because the Bible says that many are called, but few are chosen. So, like, it does sign into what you were saying, like all of faith. And the only reason I said you were like Pontius Pilate earlier is because Pontius Pilate actually went one-on-one with Jesus, and he asked him, "Are you, are you the king of the Jews?" And Pontius eventually got to a point where he said, when Jesus said, like, I forgot exactly what Jesus said, but Pontius replied back and said, "What is truth?" Because Jesus is truth, and Pontius didn't agree with that. Now, to me, if you were to ask me, if someone were to say, "What is truth?" I'd be like, "You're a crackhead. What is wrong with you? There's truth and there's lies. There's on, there's off. There's one, there's zero. There's black, there's dark. There is truth."

I think that I think that existence is more is more nuanced than that, man. I, I think that, uh, um, I, I don't think that you can divide reality into, uh, you can reduce it to truth and lies. I, I think that is, uh, um.

Well, that's why I say, I think God gave me discernment on where you're at right now. I'm just telling you as someone who believes in Jesus, Source, where you're at right now in life is, you are Pontius Pilate. You don't believe in Jesus. You're, you're curious about him. You want to ask if he's the king of the Jews. You want to inquire about him. You're, you're curious about him. You see all these wonderful things going on with his word. But you.

Brother, brother, listen to me, man. I want you to, I want you to listen, listen to this. Okay? Where I'm at right now in life, if there is a top of the m, if there's above higher than the mountain that I'm on, bro, I can't even dream of it. So, you know, uh, I, the, the evidence of my experience is, uh, evidence against the claim that you just made. And also, and also not only that, you cannot, listen here. You want, you want an objective truth. Here's one of them. It is impossible for a human being to judge, to judge the qualitative experience of another through their own value systems. It's, it just doesn't even equate.

It's not my value system. I'm judging.

If I may say, I believe I'm saying this through faith. I believe I have a strong sense. I may have the Holy Spirit. You know, I believe that you are Pontius Pilate in many ways because Pontius Pilate was curious about Jesus, but he did not trust him with his life.

Well, see, that's the thing though. I, I don't have any curiosity here. I feel like I have, uh.

Well, why did you join the stream?

Well, I fe, well, because of the, I, I said that when I joined because I never heard of a Christian claim there was no free will. I was curious. I was curious about a Christian claiming there to be no free will. Do you believe in free will, Julian?

I believe we're free as much as we're slaves because to be honest.

So that's kind of a nebulous answer. Like it.

Is nebulous. I agree.

Believe in free will. Free. Here, I'll define free. Free will means you're in control of your choices. Do you believe you're in control of your choices?

This is what the Bible says in the book of Proverbs. It says, "A man may choose his path, but the Lord directs his footsteps." So, yeah, I do believe we can choose where to go.

But the Lord ultimately chooses.

And I, and I, and I, I can, I can, I can, uh, I can completely crush the idea of free will with about three questions. I, I don't have time to get into it though.

Yeah. Matter of fact, I. Are you on here a lot, too? You, this is your.

I'm not. This is, this is my first time on here. I've never, I just was off today because of snow and. Dude, do you, do you have a, a YouTube channel or TikTok or or anything like that or what?

Um, honestly, my free time is limited, but if you did want to add me on like Discord or something, you could hit me up. It's, um.

Well, maybe we'll just, maybe God will divine that we run into each other again at some point. I have a channel. It's, uh, I haven't really published anything yet. I have a lot of content that I just kind of want to drop a plethora of content at a time. You can look me up if you like. Uh, actually, you could review some of it, man. You might be interested in, in that take on it and argue with it if you disagree with it. I, I welcome, I welcome arguments. Like if I was.

Oh, go ahead.

Yeah. I want to say if you want to get in theological debate.

There's some things that are very hard for people to understand that are beyond our minds. And I agree with that. Um, and I do believe deep down there is no free will. Deep down in the end, because where were you when you asked to be born into this? You didn't ask, you were made. And Romans nine says that God has mercy on whom he has mercy and he chooses whom he chooses. The Lord is like a potter with clay in his hands, and he forms whatever type of vessel he wants to form. So I believe that yeah, we're all subjects to God and there is no free will. I think it, God makes it to where it feels like free will, but in the end, really everything is everything, nothing is outside of God's will. The only type of free will that there is is God in his mind. The God is the only free person there is. Everyone is subject to him. No one's free. No one can invent anything. No one could create anything. Everything that's already been created has already been made. Boats and all that. We just take wood and we chop it down and we reinvent something. But we never created something out of thin air the way God did in the beginning where there was nothing. There was no thoughts. There was no colors. There was no sky. There was.

That's. You're speculating now. You don't actually know.

No, I'm not speculating. This is facts. No, no, I can prove this.

Where, where did you? How could you? How could you prove that?

You might have new content to upload to your YouTube channel after saying this. Before there was anything.

Before you were even born, Source, before your mother.

So you're begging the question just by just by saying that you're automatically assuming that there was even a time when there was nothing, that there was ever, that that's even possible. You're assuming that possibility.

It is possible. It is possible. It is possible.

Because everything in the world has a beginning and end.

Nothing just. Well, no, that's not necessarily true.

You're right. Nothing is something. So, but nothing didn't even exist. Sorry to say that. That's going to confuse a lot of people. Nothing didn't even exist because nothing.

Well, it is, it is a confusing thing. But, uh, but when you, when you say there's a beginning and an end, like, give me an example of a beginning and an end.

As far as humans can understand.

As far as, yeah. Like, what? Like, just anything.

Give me an example. You won't even understand what I said. What I'm trying to say is I'm trying to.

Try, try me.

You can say try me, but once again, it's not going to make sense. The human mind can't comprehend it.

Try, try this.

God said in Genesis, "In the beginning," he said, "In the beginning." There is a beginning.

In the beginning of what, though?

In the beginning of all that we can know and comprehend.

Does it, does it say all that we can know and comprehend? Does it say that or what does it say? It says in the beginning, right? It doesn't specify, but it's the beginning of.

But, but it, but it automatically infers all that we know and comprehend.

It could be the beginning of, of, of Earth and its, its capabilities of supporting human life. It could be the beginning of the universe. Could it, could it be the beginning of existence? But, but it, it could also not be any of those things. And it could be something that we can't even imagine. So, the point is, is that when you, you're, you're inserting, uh, the specificity as to what it's the beginning of. It doesn't say what it's the beginning of. You understand?

It's the beginning. That's all I'm trying to say. Is the beginning. It doesn't matter what of it's the beginning. There is a beginning.

And, and also, also, uh, I would add that, let's just say that this book was literally written by God, which I would raise argument to that, but I'll, I'll just grant that. Like, God came down from the heavens in whatever way that's possible and wrote this book himself. Who's he talking to?

But, but who is he communicating with?

Is actually.

What's that?

Your name, your name is Source Known.

Well, my name is my name is Draper, actually, but that's my, that's my YouTube channel.

My name is is Source Known.

But do you know the source of all life?

Do you know where we came from? Because I'm telling you right now.

God, God is the source of everything.

Exactly. But that God has sent a son to the world, and his name is Jesus Christ.

How do you know? I mean, how do you know his name isn't, isn't Draper?

It isn't Draper. That's blasphemy.

I don't know. Well, I, that's what they accused Jesus of, isn't it? They crucified him for it.

Maybe I, maybe I am. May, it could be. And then you could, and you're, and like we said, you're like the Pharisees.

They had a right. No, they had a right to.

Commanded his crucifixion.

They had a right to accuse him if he wasn't God, but he was.

In your case, you would have been killed. And.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You broke, you broke up there. You, you're cutting in and out. I said that you, you would have died if you were in Jesus's time rightfully. But when Jesus was stoned, he actually claimed he was God. He was God.

Well, that's an assertion, but you don't, you don't even, you don't have any support for that other than your.

Incredulity.

But I'll tell you what.

The heavens and the earth declare the glory of God. The fact that you're breathing right now and your lungs are filling with oxygen that you can't see. You can't prove that you're breathing, but we know that you are. You can't prove that air exists. Show me. Show me where air exists. You know it exists because you breathe and you live. So, in the same way, I know I'm alive because of Jesus Christ.

I, I can provide supporting evidence for that I'm breathing and I can provide supporting evidence.

Okay. Show me air.

Show me where the air is at. Point at it. Point at it. Well, prove it.

Point at it. Well, I can explain it. I can, I can provide an explanation that supports.

To Jesus Christ. But if you don't want to believe in him.

No, it's not the same way. It's not, it's not the same way. I, I can use, I can use like, here, take a deep breath in. Go ahead right now. Are you able to do that?

Okay. So, I just proved to you that you can take a deep breath, right?

Uh, I don't think you did. I just, I'm alive. So, you're, so you're still not, you're still.

No, no, I just, I somehow exist without air. It has, you know, I'm breathing it in. I acknowledge it.

Well, regardless, your, your argu, your, your style, your style of argument is, it has a lot of holes in it, is all I'm saying. I'm not, I'm not even saying I necessarily disagree with you. And it's almost like you're arguing with me as if I'm an atheist or something. I'm not an atheist.

Well, you are an atheist.

No, I'm not. Because you don't believe in Jesus.

That would. How do you know I don't believe in Jesus? I haven't, I haven't, I, I have not at any point presented my claim, uh, as to what my higher power is. I haven't, I haven't expressed my conception of God.

It doesn't matter. It's just what the Holy Spirit says. Does the Holy Spirit say that Source Known is a believer in Jesus today? You, you might believe tomorrow, but do you believe right now? And that's why I'm saying what I'm saying in a serious tone because you don't believe in Jesus. If you did believe in Jesus, you would know that he is the truth. You wouldn't have to say all these things and make all these speculative claims.

I walk the scripture.

Well, what I'm saying is is that a lot of the things that you're saying, okay, come from a from a book that is extremely abstract. And, and not only that, I, I could, I could find things in that book.

That I can find things in that. Hold on. Yes. Yes, they are. Because I could find things in that book and I could use your words against you with simply a simp, a different interpretation. Now, whether I'm right or wrong or not is irrelevant to the point. You want God to write a book that says Source Known on December 5th at 3:23 Eastern time. You want him to write this in, in the Hebrew when it was written, right? You want him to prophesy about 2025. Prophesy about a guy on YouTube to tell him exactly what he needs to do with his life. No, you, God's gonna speak to through his spirit, through faith, through belief. But if you don't believe, the scripture ain't going to make sense because you don't believe.

No, it makes sense to me. I'm saying that your interpretation of it is specious. That's what I'm saying. Not all of it either. Some of it you, some of it you're saying is is spot on. But what it sounds to me like is that you're like, like more so more so than interpreting the scripture yourself, you're actually like listening to someone else. It's like, so you're, you're taking someone else's interpretation of it.

You know what I mean? Like, it, this sounds like you and, and you, you believe that authority, that that authority is valid. And which maybe it is. May, maybe it is. I'm not contesting that. But my point is, is that you're, you're appealing to an authority. Okay. Now, I can simply do the same thing and appeal to a different authority, and then we're on this, we're on a level playing field. Who's, who's more right? Now, what I would say is, is that mainstream Christianity, which is why I actually tuned into this in the first place, cuz I heard something, uh, that was not mainstream at all, that God, that that Christianity doesn't, uh, doesn't say anything about free will. I agree with that. It literally, as a matter of fact, I could point to like tons of cases where it's clearly pointing out that there is no free will, and it doesn't say that there is anywhere in that book. Yet, your average, uh, Orthodox, uh, Catholics, uh, Southern Baptists, like pretty much every denomination of Christianity thinks that. And the reason they believe that is because they're trying to reconcile an all-powerful God with, uh, the occurrence of evil. And they can't reconcile that. So they say, "Oh, well, it's because there's free will." You know, people can choose to be bad, right? And this is their way to dodge the question. When, when actually the real dodge is, is actually you're just appealing to emotion by calling something evil in the first place. And that's just logically not sound. But I digress. I, I don't mean to get into all that. But I don't believe that Jesus, I don't believe that Jesus was, uh, is, well understood by modern mainstream Christianity. I think that he's taken out of context a lot. I think he's misrepresented a lot. And I think that he would be rolling over in his freaking grave at the representation that has been portrayed in his name. Okay, that's what I think. That most blasphemers.

But I, I just got to tell you, I hope this stays with you for all of your life.

What's that?

As, as a, as a fellow human being. As your friend.

Um, what did you say your name was?

Draper.

Draper.

Yeah.

Like Donald Draper? No.

Yeah. No, actually. Yeah. But it's my first name though, not it.

Yeah. No, that's cool. That's a nice name. Um.

Thanks, man.

I put my actual name on here. Um, but.

Yeah, I didn't put my name in. It's, uh, it just took my YouTube channel name. So.

Yeah, I believe that. Not to mince words, but you say Jesus will be rolling in his grave.

Yeah.

Well, I believe.

He's out of his grave in the heavens watching everything.

Well, then, then he'd be, then he's squirming in his throne. But I, and, and not really either, because Jesus didn't judge anything, man. He wasn't the arbiter of things. He, he was like basically saying, "Judge not." You know what I mean? Like, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Like, like if you really break it down, like his ideology and what he was trying to say. And he was trying to use the Old Testament to explain, uh, you know, you know what I'm, and, uh, his ideology doesn't reflect what I believe modern mainstream Christianity reflects. I don't believe there's a one-to-one reflection there. And I think it's largely.

What's that?

God judged sin.

That's why he put the wrath on his son, Jesus.

Oh, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I don't have time to get into anything else, man. I, uh.

Hey, that was fire what he said, though. Just it was simple. I think every congregation, every denomination agrees with what that guy just said.

What, what was that? Was there? I know that's what I'm saying. I'm saying I know that they do, and I'm saying that I disagree with them. I'm thinking Moses, Paul the Apostle, everybody disagreed with what that dude just said. Disagreed. Everyone, even Ace agreed with it. Everyone who has ever existed, who has ever believed anything about the Bible, just agree with what that dude just said. It was so simple, but true.

I, I didn't hear what he. Tell me what he said and where did he go? What happens?

I booted him.

Oh, you. Because he was interrupting you and Julian.

Oh, well, okay. Well, what, what, what did he say?

Let him talk some more. Bring him back. I'll be quiet.

What did he say?

He was fire. He said that. He said, "Well, God did judge sin." He just. That's all he said. And then he said, "Oh, well, that's why he said that's why."

Judge Jesus. He, he put the sin on Jesus.

Yeah. But that, but that's God. God can judge all he likes. As a matter of fact, I don't think that, uh, it's appropriate for us to do so. Do you understand? It's not necessar, it's not appropriate for us to, like, let me, let me, here, let me say it in a different way. I, I, man, I really, I got to get going after this, though. I, I'm, I'm wish I didn't. Man, I'm having a lot of fun right now.

But, uh, but basically, it's like this. Okay. God's in charge of everything. Okay. He's literally in charge of everything. All right. All occurrence was inspired by God. It was his handiwork. All right. So anytime that I have a, a disagreement with the way something is, like, so you could say that I was just, I'm doing this when I talk about Christianity, right? In a sense, uh, uh, anytime that I have a disagreement with the way something is, I'm sitting in my little God throne, hovering above the world, writing the script for how, how creation should be. I'm playing God. That's what we call that. Okay? I'm literally thinking that I know better than God, the thing that created everything. Okay? Anytime I form any kind of negative judgment about the world, if I say that this is wrong, if I'm saying that this is wrong in my head, like, or feeling that, and you know, I guess saying that it's wrong is one thing. I, I care more about when it actually, when it, when it's so wrong that you feel it, that's where I think the real problems emerge. That's when it's fear. Okay? And, uh, and I don't have, I can't make a universe. I can't build an ecosystem. I can't build a biological system. I don't, any, any business, any business at all saying that something is objectively wrong or that God, God messed it up. I, God messed it up, and I know better.

And, uh, I feel like Christianity does not, is literally in complete and utter violation to that principle, which I think is the core principle of of spirituality.

Question to ask you, Source, is.

Are you using the words of Jesus to.

I, I, I use the words of Jesus to affirm the findings that I have uncovered through my own spiritual journey.

You're honest about it. So you're using the words of Jesus.

When they're applicable to what you already believe outside of him.

No, no, no. I use the words of G. Let me, I'll, I'll repeat it. I'll repeat what I said. Okay. Well, I'll, I'll expand upon it a little bit too. Uh, I am basically, I went on a spiritual journey. Okay. All right. Now, I was an atheist. I went on a spiritual journey. Uh, and I found God. And I, when I say I found God, bro, I don't think that you can really, I, I don't know that most people could really grasp what the hell I mean by by that. But I would just say that it was, uh, um, there's a line in, in the Old Testament in, in Exodus, when there's a, a bush is lit on fire, and, and God appears before Moses, and he's, and Moses could not look upon the face of God, for it was too terrifying. Right? I'm telling you that that's not metaphorical. That, like, I, I, I had a similar experience to that.

So do you think God, to be in the presence of God, hold on, hold on, hold on. To be in the presence of God, like, if he actually, which you can't not be in the presence of God, but let's say that he actually makes himself known to you. The f, here's what any human being is going to do. They're going to fall flat on their face and they're going to start apologizing for that they might have done wrong, and they are going to beg this thing to not erase them from existence. Okay? Because you are going to know that it has that power. And then when it doesn't, you're going to feel, you're going to feel a lot of love, man. You're going to feel like really, really validated by the fact that this thing didn't just kill you when you, when you think you deserve it.

So that was my first. So that was my first experience. So now I went from atheist to having that experience. My world was completely flipped upside down. And then I went on my journey. Okay. And with that experience came a lot of revelation, brother. Okay. Like, a lot of revelation. Like, I, I knew that I, it took me years to even be able to explain to people, okay? I've been spending my entire life devoted to trying to articulate these understandings that I gained from one day to the next, okay? In a way that is palatable to most people. All right? And then I went on my journey and I explored every single religion, dude. Like, thoroughly. I practiced them. I didn't just read the book. You know what I'm saying? I lived it. All right? I lived every, I lived every ounce of it. And I'm telling you that if you, that through a spiritual understanding, all right, mainstream Christianity misrepresents what Jesus was saying. And, and, and, and not having any knowledge of mainstream Christianity at the time that I'm talking about, I didn't even know that. Okay. So, I'm reading this book and I'm reading what Jesus is saying, and I'm seeing that this is on fire, bro. Like, he's got it, dude. This dude is like, he understands, man. He sees this that I thought that I was the first person to ever learn. I thought I was the Messiah. Okay. Well, I, I'm not. I'm, I'm not. But it's, uh, uh, it's actually a common thing that happens in the West when people, uh, have experiences like that. They think that they're special or chosen. But anyways, but so I read that, and then I start talking to Christians. I start going to church. I start, you know, as I investigate Christianity, I'm like, "What the hell are these people talking about?" Like, yo, you guys are so far off track, you don't even know there is a track.

Well, so anyways.

There are there are spiritual experiences, but.

Yeah, I believe you have. You just.

I don't believe every spiritual experience. Do you believe that Moses actually existed and God did do the burning bush thing with him?

I, I, I don't really have, I'm not sure, man. I can't say. I, I don't. Oh, excuse me. Sorry. Uh, I don't really have enough information to form.

Yeah, because I know you got, but I do want to.

No, no, it's not the time that I'm lacking. It's, I don't have the information. Like, I, I don't know. I, I know that when I hear anybody, I've ever heard.

Interpret that story. They don't interpret it. They always throw some, some smidge of metaphor onto it. And I'm telling you.

Like Moses actually did and was born as a Hebrew Israelite. Pharaoh historically was trying to kill all people because that some spirit entity told him that all the, that there was going to be a son that would rise up.

Spirit entity would have been God, or at least God would have been in charge of that spirit entity. I mean, literally throughout all of Exodus, they talk about God hardened the Pharaoh's heart. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, clearly God's in charge of that.

Like anyone can anyone argue in that? So, and, and if God's in charge of everything, then what the hell is evil? Like, that doesn't even make any sense. So, back to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It's a delusion. It's a human delusion that we're all, and we're all born into that delusion, which is made clear because what's the first thing a human being does when they get here? What's the very first action that almost every human performs the moment that that they show up in the world?

It's funny you say that because my second born, Caleb, didn't cry for 48 hours after he was born.

Well, I, I get it. There's outliers, but generally speaking.

Yeah. I'm saying they always cry.

They always cry. And, and you were saw, and you saw your kid, they were not tears of joy, right?

Yeah. No, they were, they were.

So now the human being that's experiencing the most joyous occasion that according to almost everybody, literally thinks it's wrong the moment that it's born, and it expresses that through its tears. It's saying, "Yo, this ain't right. God messed up." Even if it doesn't even believe in God, saying God messed this up. Then they lay, then we, then we're laid in our mother's arms where we hear her beating heart, and we say, "Oh, okay. Maybe it's not so bad."

Definitely the crying. I'd say a lot of it has to do with because we live in the broken world, and that's just the way it has to be for now.

I don't think that. I don't, I, I mean, yeah. I, well, I mean, you say broken world. I don't necessarily know that I would agree with that. Uh, or with that. Um.

You don't. Everyone's insane and there's sinners everywhere.

Yeah, we're all sinners. There's nothing wrong with being a sinner though. Is it? Would be like my.

The baby was a sinner.

Exactly. And what? So what?

That's fine. Probably.

Right. Well, it was, it was committing the original sin. It was not trusting God. Exactly.

It was, it was thinking it knew better than God. So, uh, and that, I think, and, and then there's all of the, all the baggage that that claim carries, which I think, uh, is denied. It's disavowed. So, I get somebody to, to, let's say I get a Christian to agree with everything I just said, but then they go back out into the world wanting to stone gays. You know what I mean?

It just doesn't make any sense. Like, they're sinners and God's in charge of them, too, man. God's in charge of them, too, man.

I do have a question for you. The Bible says that you should not judge. Don't judge.

And many time, many ways, it says it doesn't say thou shall not judge. It says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged."

But.

The same person who said that, and this is why people say the Bible has contradictions because they're not wise enough to understand the scriptures.

But to just, to be honest, they're not wise enough to understand. That's why they say it contradicts. But the same person who said that, if you read the context, you realize it's not what people, people don't understand it. They're, they're so low level.

I agree with you. No, I agree. They, as a matter of fact, I say most Christians don't really understand. It's basically saying that the moment you judge, you become a hypocrite.

Well, that's not, that's not actually the full wisdom. God's wisdom is so deep and so grand.

That.

Yeah. Okay. I'll grant you that. I'll grant you that. Yeah, sure. I, I probably.

There are ways to grow in it. And one of the ways is to understand that when it says judge not lest you be judged, it doesn't say judge not. It says judge not lest you be judged. Meaning you can judge, but you also will be judged. But to further that.

Yeah. The person said that he also sent out, he also sent out apostles and said to judge. He told them literally, it literally says in the Bible, he asked them, he told them to judge. He commanded them to judge. It is a commandment to judge. It is written even in the book of Revelation, it says that you were created a little bit lower than the angels.

But we're talking.

But you will judge. But you will judge the angels. Now, now.

If we could judge, if we could judge angels in the next life to come, best believe we can judge humans now because.

And that, and that's just, look, I need this passage from the Bible and I need to interpret it in a way that justifies my judgment rather than just admit that I'm actually shouldn't be doing that. Like, if I'm trying to, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be doing that because if you are doing it, then you should according to God. But I'm saying if you're trying to have the most qualitative life experience according to you, then that's not serving your function. It's just not skillful. Okay? It's not skillful because the moment you do, you set the stage for your own suffering. And you also, and, and not the least of which, which is an unconscious shame that comes from being a hypocrite. You know what I mean? Like, so I don't admit that I'm a hypocrite, but somewhere inside I know that I am, and I'm ashamed of that. And then I carry that shame around with me, and it affects my behavior and my life experience. You know what I mean? So, the truth is, God's in charge of it all.

We're all sinners. But this is the thing. When I say that, not all, not all sinners go to heaven. But, but I want to say this.

In a way that's honest with God's heart. God calls everyone everywhere, everywhere to repent. To repent of sin. Have you.

What? What would you say that even means? What is, what is to repent?

Repentance is an action, but it's also a heart. It means to turn away from sin, to be sorrowful of sin, to not like it. That repentance is life.

What if I, what if I offered a different explan? Tell me what you think of this. Just, uh, some food for thought. What if repenting from sin was actually, uh, at the very core, was to actually just be at peace to just be at peace with the sin you've committed. What if I told, what if I said that? What, what would you, would you agree with that or would you.

Well, God in the Bible would disagree with that. Heck, according to, disagree with that.

Even the Hindus who are new age at most of the time would disagree with that.

Brother, I practice Hinduism. You're not going to tell me they disagree with that. I think I know them really well.

I'm saying, but Hinduism is confusion in itself. I believe it. Hinduism is.

It's actually not. It's actually like, it's more clear than Christianity.

It is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It is the same thing to become God because you are God in your own mind.

Don't you know that in the beginning God made Adam and he made his wife Eve and he put them in the garden?

Bro, you're kind of all over the place right now. You were just saying something about Hinduism. What did you say about Hinduism?

I'm explaining it actually. Um, did you, did you know that when God told them not to eat from the tree of, what? Knowledge of, knowledge of good and evil. Did you know that Satan enticed them with these words?

He says, "God doesn't want want you to eat of it." Why?

Then you'll know what he knows. Yeah.

Because you'll become like him, seeing good from evil. You'll become God.

Yeah. You'll be sitting on your little God throne. Right in the script for everything by it. Eve said, "Oh, that sounds good. I could become like God. Yes, I want everyone to worship me. Let's go." And then they ate from it and fell because they weren't God. Because they can't handle that knowledge and they aren't God. They're created beings.

What do you think? So, you think she messed up or what?

She messed up. And I think Hindus.

Well, it's a good thing she did, or else we wouldn't be here talking about it.

Well, see, that's God's wisdom. And God's wisdom is beyond me being able to explain it. It's.

How did she mess up? If God was in charge of it.

So God allowed her to mess up because he has a grand glorious plan to restore her.

Correct. And if that's always the case, then when I say, "Oh, she messed up." That would be a judgment, and that would say, well, messed up according to who?

She did mess up, but she got to rightly divide things. You know, she messed up in accordance to what God said.

So, so you say rightly divide things. What if Jesus messed up? What if Jesus sinned?

What did Jesus say?

Well, I mean, I think there's two examples of sin where Jesus committed. Uh, one was, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" when he was on the cross.

That wasn't sin. Uh.

Why not? Because God did forsake him.

It's literally. It doesn't matter. It's. He still disagreed. He was obviously in disagreement with the original.

Why? He asked the question. He said, "Why have you forsaken me?"

"Why have you forsaken me?"

He asked the question. He didn't sin.

He, he literally asked.

What do you think his emotional state was while asking that question? You think he was like, "God, thanks for for shaking me." Like, what do you think?

Jesus was 100% human. So, it doesn't mean 100% sinful. It meant he's 100% human.

Okay. Okay. Okay.

All right. I'm going to wind it up there, boys and girls. Hate to interrupt this, uh, turd slinging monkey fest. Uh, I, I will say that, uh, that as far as talking down, Julian wins the prize for he was talking down to Source Known.

Rule, baby.

Speaking the scripture authoritatively.

Of course you were just speaking the scripture, talking down to one for whom Christ died. How dare you be a sinner, Source Known? How dare you?

Well.

Anyway, thanks for coming, boys and girls.

The Bible says that if everyone says good of you, you are like the Pharisees.

How dare you be a sinner, because Jesus only saves the worthy.

Okay.

All right. Hey guys. So, I'm going to get going. Okay. It was.

Hey, I appreciate talking to you, man. You weren't talking to any. Like. Likewise. Likewise. Take care. Take care, guys. Ace, it was nice meeting you, buddy. Well, I'm sure I'll see you soon. All right. Bye.

I.