Transcription
[Music] [Music] Hello and welcome to the Help is Here podcast, brought to you by the Beyond Compulsion Academy. Today, I'm joined once again by my co-host, Mary Boris. Welcome on the show, Mary. Today, we're going to talk about the real reason people watch porn. So, Mary, welcome on the show. How are you doing today?
>> I'm doing better than Barack. My cat is having a problem. So, I'm a little down about that, but other than that, I'm doing pretty good. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Having a sick cat.
>> Yeah. No, I bet. And, and as I was just saying to you, one of the hardest parts is not knowing exactly what to do and then seeing your cat suffering and wanting to help, right? It can be.
>> Yeah. They can't tell you what's wrong, you know?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Poor guy.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, the reason I bring up this topic then of what is the reason you really want to watch porn is because so many people have, have a misconception, um, being fed to them, really. You know, I was fed this lie about the reason that was actually important. For many years, I thought it was loneliness, lack of purpose, uh, maybe tiredness, stress, not enough stuff going on in my life, feeling disconnected, um, childhood trauma, of course, uh, many things from childhood. There's all these different explanations as to why I, I thought I had a problem with porn. Um, you know, since that time, I've finally got out of the porn addiction. Kind of changed the way I think about things, changed my neural pathways, and my perspective on the reason people watch porn is so different to what it once was.
Now, I was messaging a client, um, not a client, actually, um, it was just somebody who was, who was in touch, basically, this week. He's not a client at the moment, but maybe he will be one day. Who knows? But anyway, he said he'd had quite a lot of therapy and counseling and so on, and we was going back and forth, and I asked him a question. Um, I think I asked him, "Oh, yeah. So, can you think of what sort of thought patterns you've had before, um, that's led to you like choosing to look at it? Like, what, what sort of things going on in your mind with this problem?" Because he was really struggling with porn. And he said, you know, he gets bored, he loses some motivation, and he feels like he does it to replenish his motivation so he can be motivated again to do work. And he said, you know, he's very alone in life at the moment. Um, he wants to bypass some feelings of loneliness and feelings of lack of intimacy. Then he said he also maybe does it to relieve stress and get a sense of escape from responsibilities. Um, you know, these are the sort of reasons he, he's come up with in his mind.
So, over to you, Mary. Why are things like, you know, sort of, uh, wanting to get away from, you know, your responsibilities? Why things like motivation for like work, uh, doing it for motivation for work? Why things like loneliness, a lack of intimacy? Why are none of these things the real reason people watch porn?
>> Well, you don't want to get away from your responsibilities. You want to get out of the discomfort of withdrawal, which is normal because it's uncomfortable. But if you know, um, I was talking to a guy yesterday in a liberation day call, and he'd spent $10,000 on therapy, and it was all about, "What are you feeling? What are you feeling? What are you feeling?" So, it's normal that people are looking for these reasons, these responses. "Oh, I'm doing it because of this. I'm doing it because I'm lonely. I'm doing it because I'm disconnected. I'm doing it because I have a lack of intimacy. That's why I do this." When in reality, everything that you named right there are pretty much standard on the list of negative consequences of costs of engaging in the addictive behavior. You know, pretty much all of them.
>> Being in the addiction causes these, these negative things. Not, "I'm going to use the behavior to get out of them." You know, it's, it's really pretty much the opposite. But if you, if you feel deprived, if you feel like you don't have a choice, you go looking for a reason, you know?
>> "I'm doing it because of this," somehow like justifying it, you know?
>> So, it's, it's natural to have those thoughts, to have those feelings, especially when it's promoted with, "How are you feeling?" Like, it's all about, "You do it because of how you're feeling," right?
>> Yeah. Yeah. You're feeling uncomfortable because your, your neural pathway of addictive desire wants to go this way, and part of you is going, "I don't want to do this anymore." You know? It's uncomfortable. Withdrawal is uncomfortable. I mean, thank God there's a way through it because there's no way around it, you know?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And,
>> Yeah.
>> The thing I experience with this is, and why this is so problematic to think in this way and have all these different reasons and explanations as to why we engage, is because there'll always be a new reason. There'll always be a new explanation because that's how the addictive part of the mind works. So, what happened for me for literally like years and years and years is, one time it might be stress, then it was loneliness, then it's like sadness, then it's feeling disconnected in some way, then it's lack of purpose, then it's poor habits, and then it's this, then it's that. And it would just go on and on and on. And so I'd end up trying to solve all those different problems in my life and develop like a super busy life, right? Um, a much more like connected life in some ways. And then it's like, I end up still choosing to engage. Like, I ended up still relapsing. And then eventually, I think for me, after like 10 years of being stuck in that cycle,
>> It kind of got to a point where it was just like, "Well, I'm doing this because I'm horny and I want to do it." And I didn't really have any answers left until I met you and realized that that wasn't the reason. And what was going on is I had these addicted neural pathways. And my brain was wired to have these cravings. And so experiencing that without acting on it was very uncomfortable. And so obviously, the addictive part of the mind would come up with all these rationalizations and excuses as to why I was choosing to engage back then.
>> Yeah. "I'm horny and it's my bio, it's my innate biological drive as a man, you know."
>> Yeah.
>> Just use it. The thing is, I feel like it's can be such a relief, you know, for the clients when it's like, "The only reason that you do it." I mean, break it down to the simple, you know, even if your life was free of all this other stuff, you know, you had the most fulfilled life, you had, you had, you know, every, everything was going great, right? You're still going to want to do it because you are wired from wanting to do it to acting on it.
>> That's it. It's going to come up, you know. That's why the whole removing triggers thing is so silly, you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And there's going to be certain situations as well where I feel like
>> People are going to want to do it more. But we've almost been like brainwashed by all these like self-improvement and neuroscience books and whatnot that like, if we have the desire, it's a bad thing and we're going to get out of control. It's almost like there's this, this misconception that, you know, let's say you feel lonely one day and therefore you want to watch porn because you've been taught that if you want to watch porn, you're going to get out of control. You do end up watching porn, and because you don't have a tool to deal with that desire, you do watch porn. So then in your brain, you go, "Okay, well, every time I'm lonely, I end up watching porn." So then you have this,
>> This like incorrect thinking, this incorrect thought pattern that the loneliness is causing the porn. But it just isn't. It's, there's still a space between you having the wanting, having that desire, and how you respond to it. And that right there is like the thing to actually focus on is how do you respond to that desire? Because there's nothing wrong with having these desires. You know, these neural pathways were wired from a very, very young age. Most people, you know, I was talking to a guy today again. It was 12 years old. I had a liberation day call with someone, and yeah, he got, he got addicted to porn from like around the age of of 12. That's when he first started watching it. Um, it's very common. So,
>> You know, you are going to have these desires because your neural pathways have changed in this way. But that's not to say they can't be changed again. You know, due to neuroplasticity, if you manage to think through these desires in a rational way repeatedly, you can change your brain and you can start to respond to these desires in a much more rational way. And then over time, what happens is you feel lonely, and you feel lonely. It's like, that's just feeling lonely. It's, it's nothing really to do with porn because you've changed that wiring in your brain.
>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah. The more I think about it, you know, with this wiring from such a young age. Yeah. Thankfully, though, a lot of the guys, they become unhappy with the situation at a pretty young age, too. We have a lot of guys in their 20s. You know, we have 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, you know, that's probably the oldest is in the 60s, you know, and not to say that they can't change it at that stage of the game, you know, because absolutely you can. You can change your neural pathways at any age, but, you know, the young guys, they're so they're wired from such a young age, but if they're stopping in their 20s, the, you know, they can, they can change that, you know? I mean, it's, I, I don't want to say easier, but I guess there's more there. Yeah, it's not as hardwired at that point, you know? So, I feel like the guys that are in their 20s, very go after this thing, you know, even though they don't necessarily have a, a vision of what is life without porn because they've been wired for such from such a young age, that it can happen relatively quickly where they can have some real tangible breakthroughs and go, "Oh, this is what it feels like, you know, to not be stuck in this porn addiction, you know."
>> Yeah. I think speaking as a guy in his 20s myself, I think the difficult part is like being so wrapped around a culture like for all your life, really, that where this is like the norm, like this is just the normal thing that everyone seems to do is like watch porn. And it's a bit more in your face now, I'd imagine, than it was in the past, like with social media and things. And most people being on social media, and there being, you know, OnlyFans. And I was reading that article that a client sent us this morning about there being like four plus million active,
>> Creators on OnlyFans. Like, that's a lot of people, you know. Um, so it's pretty insane. Um, so I think that's the hard part for people maybe in their 20s. But I mean, that's going to be true for, for any age as well. And I suppose if you've grown up with like Playboy, and then you've ended up with like high-speed internet porn, and you're in like your 50s or 60s, can imagine that being very challenging as well, because, you know, that gets introduced, you're like, "Holy [ __ ] like this is pretty insane," you know. Um, so yeah, I think, I think you think about it.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, back when hiding a Playgirl or Playboy, whatever, under the bed, under the mattress, you know, hiding to now, you know, that article, the OnlyFans being represented as like this, you know, this big business with these CEOs, and just, it really pisses me off. It was interesting, too, 'cause the client who sent this said, "Get ready to be pissed off when you read this." And I thought, "Hell yeah." You know, it's like, we're OnlyFans, a bunch of hookers are being represented by, you know, and next thing you know, they're going to be like on, you know, in the New York Times, you know, and represented as this business that's like legit, you know, and it's, talk about normalizing. My God, you know, LinkedIn and whatever else, you know, I would say, I would say ban them, you know, in my own personal opinion, ban them from that kind of thing, you know.
>> I mean, let them go on Instagram or whatever. I don't know. I don't know where you draw the line, but I just feel like, would you, would you have a, um, a brothel, and you're going to have the madam? You're going to interview her on LinkedIn or whatever, wherever this was, Financial Times or whatever the hell, I don't care, you know, but you're going to have the brothel with the madam?
>> You know? No, like now it's looking at it like it's just this corporate thing, you know, like this corporate legitimate business, and we're going to buy stocks and OnlyFans, you know, I mean,
>> Yeah.
>> It's just, it's so ridiculous how, how normal it is. It's when let's let's look at the product. Let's look at what they're selling, you know?
>> They're selling their bodies. They're selling sex. That's what they're doing. And they can put it in front of young boys, and that's just not cool, you know? I mean, we can't stop a lot of it, but it seems like some way we could stop this normalizing of it and making it look like it's some kind of legitimate business, you know what I mean?
>> Yeah. I think,
>> I don't know. It does piss me off. I think the other thing is like, there's so many ways in which society has become so over-sexualized. If it's not, it's not OnlyFans, it's like music videos and music lyrics. And I know there's been a lot of,
>> You know, romantic songs in the past, but some songs nowadays that are completely mainstream are like very, very over-sexualized. I literally walked into the podcast studio just now,
>> I was sharing this with Andy, who's in the podcast studio with me. I was just saying how literally within about about five minutes walk of this podcast studio, there were these two young girls, probably ages of five and maybe seven or so, and they were like, they, I think they were creating a TikTok. I think they were, because they had like some music on and they were doing some like dance, and it looked like they had like this routine. And I heard the lyrics to the song, and it was a song that I've heard before. Um, which is a very, very over-sexualized song. Um, it's a song that I, I know because it's come on in my shuffle before on Spotify, and I've clicked past it. I just despise the lyrics in it. It was about like just shaking your ass and [ __ ] and there's like these two young girls like literally dancing to that song. And it's like, what is going on in society? This is honestly heartbreaking. Like,
>> I know.
>> It's just sickening what is going on. It really is. And I think the important thing is for, for our listeners, is we don't have to be part of all of this [ __ ]. Like, we can choose how we live our lives. Like, that is the great thing is that we don't have to be part of this, and we can call it out and look at it from like an a different sort of lens and just be like, "What the hell is going on here? I, I don't want that for myself. I want, I want peace of mind. I want clarity. I want to feel calm. Maybe I want to get out in nature more. Maybe I want real strong relationships, uh, which I actually enjoy, that aren't just based on sex." You know, we can choose for ourselves what we do want in life. Um, but yeah, it's very sad to see what's going on with, yeah, this, this over-sexualization of,
>> I had a young kid. There's no way I'd let them be on TikTok.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I don't know what I would have to do, you know, to keep that from happening, but it's, it's TikTok is it really, is it like giving your kid crack cocaine,
>> with sex on top of it, you know? I mean, kids definitely at that age do not need to be have that sort of exposure to sexual stuff. It, but you're right, it really is. Is I mean, I think about like, like MTV when it first came out, like the music videos that used to be on there compared to what the music videos are now, and all the over-sexualized stuff on Reels and TikTok and Instagram and all that stuff. And it's like, it's really kind of night and day, you know? I mean, not that there weren't lyrics that, I mean, some of the lyrics of the old songs, you listen, you listen for your whole life and you really listen and go, "Oh, wait. What are they saying there?" They, it's some of it's pretty,
>> Pretty bad, but not so in your face, you know, like things are now. And, you know, with like,
>> Even just like the anime, like the cartoony stuff, it's like, I, I don't know what's going on, but it's, it's certainly is not healthy.
Due to the medium through which we consume information, it's very hard to ever really decipher who's like the right person to listen to when it comes to all of this, because,
>> Yeah.
>> What you'll find, and I'll give you an example of this, is, you know, yesterday, for example, I was, I was at my girlfriend's place, and I was reading this book, uh, called "Bosch." It was like a healthy eating sort of cooking vegan book or whatever, right?
>> Um, and my girlfriend was planning out some meals, and I say, "Hey, can I have a look of that, look at that book?" Right? So, I'm reading the sort of introduction to it, and honestly, I was just like, "Wow, he was just full of junky thinking. It's just full of compulsive [ __ ]." It was like,
>> "You need to have 50% of this food, then 25% of this category, and 25% of this." And then there was a section where,
>> It was like, "What you need to do is like, never watch TV as you're eating your food, and you've got to mindfully like consume this food, and it should take 20 minutes to consume it, and like, every, it literally said something along the lines of, 'Every mouthful, you need to be mindful of as you're consuming it.'" I was, I was saying to Leanne yesterday, I was like, "What the [ __ ] is this shit?" Like, if I want to sit in front of Netflix and eat a burger and chips, I'll sit in front of Netflix and watch The Godfather and eat my burger and chips. Like, I'm not going to eat every single item mindfully, like all this weird stuff. And like, when I was explaining it to Leanne yesterday, and I was just pointing out all these different junky thoughts and how weird it all was, even she was like, "Yeah, actually, you know what, Tom? Like, that is kind of weird. It's too obsessive. It's just like, oh my God, just chill. Like, eat some food and crack on with your day."
Completely [ __ ] up and completely sets people up for eating disorders. And if your kids see you doing that kind of [ __ ], that hyperfocus on food,
>> They're going to end up eating disordered as well. And I eat my dinner literally in front of the TV every night. And I, I'm not obese. I don't obsess about food at all. It's like, you know, I'm single. I'm not, I mean, maybe if I was, you know, with somebody, we'd eat at the table or whatever, or we'd go out for, whatever.
>> But, you know, I ordered GrubHub, which I'm sure is bad, you know, right? Ordering GrubHub, and I, like, last night, what did I even eat? I can't remember. I mean, much, maybe I should look in my journal where I recorded every calorie I ate so I can remember what the [ __ ] I ate last night. I ate it in front of the Sunday night football, and I literally cannot remember what I ate. Oh, I know what I ate. I ate, um, spicy fried rice from the Thai restaurant down on the corner, and I had a cucumber, and I cut up a cucumber, and I put, I had cucumbers and and spicy fried rice. It was good.
>> Yeah, that's what I ate. But God in, you know, I'm gonna think about every bite I put in my mouth mindfully for what the [ __ ]. It's wild. Talking about cucumbers.
>> Did I ever, did I ever share that story with you about the cucumber that was eating down the street that time?
>> I don't know. But share it again, 'cause
>> All right. This was a few,
>> Hilarious. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. It wasn't that funny. But I don't know if I did share this on the podcast or with you ever. But anyway, it was, it was a few months ago. I was just, I was hungry and I wanted a snack, and I just went into like a Sainsbury's or whatever, and I just bought a cucumber. And then I was just eating this cucumber as I was walking down. Uh, I was actually in a park. So it was near my house in Sheffield. I was just walking through this park, Enkliff Park, um, eating this cucumber, just like on its own, just, yeah. Like I didn't, I didn't really care. Like, I just eat whatever, whenever I, I don't really think these things through too much. Yeah.
>> And there was like these four girls who were like about my age or so, and then they were looking at me like, "What is that guy doing? Is he just eating a cucumber like walking through the park?" They carry on walking, and then I walk past them. They're all looking at me really weird. And then as I just passed them, one of them shouts and like turns back to like look at me and was like, "Are you eating a cucumber?" And I was like, "Yes, I am. I am eating a cucumber. Just let me carry on." But, um, I mean, that's more the,
>> Cucumbers. I'm picky. I peel them and I core them.
>> I take the peels off and I take the seeds out. That's how I eat my cucumbers. But I, I love cucumbers, and they have so many good uses, too, you know. So, but yeah, but the, the idea that you're going to like, you know, in any way, shape, or form, go to a book other than a recipe book where you're going to figure out, you know, because it gets damn boring figuring out what to cook and whatever. So, maybe get some ideas from a book, but a nutrition book or whatever that's going to tell you like, "20, spend 20 minutes, and here's where you eat, and here's where you don't eat, and how much you think about each bite you take. And you record your calories and your fats and your this and your that." Oh my God. Stop. Imagine. Right. We got Uncle Harry and the Body Cast from my from my film, right?
>> Seven Misconceptions About the Obesity Epidemic, which is on YouTube. Anyone wants to see it, but,
>> All the [ __ ]. Okay. Take the, take this book that you had over at Leanne's, right?
>> Yeah.
>> With you over to feed Uncle Harry, who can't feed himself. And then think about all this [ __ ] in there. Like, it would be so ridiculous if it was Uncle Harry. You'd go feed him some food, and that would be the end of that.
>> You wouldn't think twice about it, you know?
>> 100%. And,
>> Because you know, people know what to eat. They know. They know what's
>> Exactly.
>> Reasonable. But,
>> Oh God. What's unreasonable is all the diet crap, which is is way more prevalent than than porn stuff. Well, I guess depending on your algorithms, what's going to come up for you, but,
>> Oh, right. You know. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of that on Instagram for sure. And, uh, yeah, I do want to caveat the thing about Leanne's book because I said to her yesterday, "Oh my God, this book is like full of nonsense. Can I talk about it on the podcast?" And she was like, "Yeah, you can, but make sure you get across that I didn't read the introduction. It's just a book I want to learn some meals from." Cuz do you know what I mean? So like, uh, she doesn't,
>> Yeah. She, yeah.
>> To her, it is just simply a recipe book, and she hadn't even read the start of it, so she was a bit surprised when I was reading the start and the introduction and was like, "Yeah,
>> What is going on here?" You know?
>> That's what people are getting exposed to, you know?
>> Maybe Leanne went past the intro straight to just looking for some interesting ideas to for cooking meals, you know, but, but just the general sort of atmosphere around that,
>> It's, it's going to be there, you know?
>> 100%. And, uh, it's kind of, the other like correlation here to just point out is, you know, the problems going on with our thought patterns and what's going on in terms of our thinking, right? If you think about this whole like food compulsion problem, and the solutions people come up with, a lot of it is tracking things. So, yeah, tracking the calories, eat this, don't eat this, you've got to measure, blah, blah, blah, right? And it is very, very similar to the porn addiction recovery solutions, you know, you've got to count your days, right? You got to be on a low-fat streak. You got to have a counter. We're going to have to meditate every day. We've got to journal every day. We've got to remove our triggers. We've got to do all these different,
>> Little micro strategies that are going to help us sort of hack,
>> Hack into some imaginary like peace or some 90-day no-rap streak. But that's just not, not the way to do it. Like, what you want is simplicity. You want to learn how to change the way you think and deal with the thoughts that are creating the problem in your mind, because the problem's in your mind. So, yeah, that's,
>> Avoid triggers, right? Don't, don't eat. I had somebody a long time ago, they said their doctor said, "If you, if you eat something you like, spit, spit it out," or something's just completely ridiculous, you know, like, "Don't eat anything you like," because it, because that will trigger you, right? And remove your triggers. So, let's just have a bunch of, you know, buy all the food you'd hate,
>> And put that in your house. How, how much more ridiculous can it get? And I just want to, you know, and we can get off the food stuff, but my article, you can see this. I brought "Sad Food." It's everybody on this planet should read it if we want to turn this [ __ ] around, you know? And it's on, um, it's at beyondcompulsion.com, my website. I don't know if it's at beyondcompulsionacademy.com. Is there access to this?
>> But yeah, go read it. Share it with every wellness person you know. Um,
>> And, and maybe there's an opportunity to, you know, educate and stop teaching children. I mean, it's way too late for, um, you know, gener, this whole generation that is learning this misconception about about obesity and, and, you know, but share, share, read the article. "I Brought Sad Food." It's on at beyondcompulsion.com. On, I believe it's on the philosophy page. I'm not sure. It's there, easy to find. So,
>> I'll have, I'll have a look into it and I can put it in the description for anyone who wants to read it. It is a good book. Yeah, it's a mini little free book you can read. I think the thing is,
>> A lot of the, the things that we talk about, it is going to go very much against the grain. Um, so yeah, it's up to you to decide how you want to live. But I think one of the biggest shifts that we help people make is,
>> Going from feeling confused, overwhelmed, going in loads of different directions into having just like a very strategic, simple process in place to change the way you think and feel in control of yourself, basically, all the time. Um, and it's not quite as hard as some people may think it is. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of relearning to do, a lot of unlearning to do, for sure. Um, and you got, you know, experience some temporary discomfort at times, for sure. But, you know, simplicity is king when it comes to all of this sort of stuff. That's what you need because if you go online nowadays, you're going to end up in a million different directions and feel probably even more confused than the first time you went online trying to find an answer to to a problem.
>> Yeah. Well, you know, I ask all the guys in liberation day calls about other, potentially compulsive behaviors that they would have, because of course, we don't want them to go into substitution, which we call detour to disaster, right? So, I have them identify potentially compulsive behaviors or things that are already compulsive. And at this stage of the game, I just assume that they're all going to have some sort of food compulsion based on the misconceptions around it, you know. Yeah.
>> Um, and they, and every single one of them will minimize it. "Oh, well, you know,
>> I'm pretty, I'm pretty good with food. I eat pretty healthy." And lot, you know, it's not a ver, it's not healthy food versus not healthy food. If you're thinking about healthy versus not healthy on any regular basis, I mean,
>> They're, they're being born into this environment of food compulsion, you know, they can't really help it. One guy says to me, "Oh, yeah, he did, he doesn't have a problem with food. Um, but he does, but he does, um, he'll put food into his mouth, he'll chew it up and spit it out,
>> To not, to not take in the calories." And I'm like, "And you don't have a, and this is not a problem for you?" I said it to him, and, you know, if he hears this, you know, he knows who he is. It's like, it's that's a problem if you, you know, I mean, have, would you ever even think of doing that? I mean, I guess a lot of people do it. Somehow you're going to get some sort of satisfaction out of chewing it up and then spitting it out. It's kind of like bulimia, but a little sooner than don't even swallow it and throw it up. They just chew it up and spit it out. But yeah, it's so normalized that I just literally assume that every guy is going to have some sort of, you know, food compulsion going on that he's learned from society. So,
>> Yeah.
>> We got to deal with it all the time, you know, to not end up people, you know, we, we called it back in the brea days, smoking food, detour to disaster, you know.
>> So, when would people that would stop smoking, now it's like, if you try to feed your porn addiction, any addiction, food, you're going to end up, I was joking with one of the guys, I said, "You're going to end up a fat porn addict," you know? And, and then he said, he'd also in the past tried to, um, use weed, you know, so now you're going to be a fat, stoned, you know, porn addict. It's like, that's just not the way out. But yeah, kind of going on and on about this, but sorry. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Nice.
>> It's really important. It's so important to be recognized. Yeah.
>> It is important. And I know I've said it a few times, but I think it does quite, it can be quite useful when you see that the approach towards porn compulsion, this problem, is pretty much identical to our approach towards like a food compulsion problem, right? Um, like the videos in phase one to phase three are literally the same videos. Whether you got food, nicotine, weed, gaming, social media, porn,
>> We don't discriminate. It's the thought patterns that require a change. And actually having a tool to deal with those thought patterns. And I think for me, and a lot of the guys, that comes as quite a relief because we kind of come into things thinking, "Ah, is there something wrong with my sexual desires? You know, what's wrong with me?" And we all, we often have those unanswerable questions going on, and there's a lot of shame there as well. But then when you just realize that actually, you just have these thought patterns that, you know, millions of other people have, and you've been taught a load of nonsense from random people on the internet, you go, "Oh, yeah, actually, um, you know, I can't change my neural pathways and, uh, I don't really need to feel any shame because this sort of [ __ ] kind of happened to me from a young age, and I can rewire my brain." And it's a big relief. So I think, I think hopefully, it can be useful to people. Yeah. And the thing is too, like people out there that are that don't understand this, you know, don't understand addiction in this way, they, if they're working with people with guys that are trying to overcome pornography, but they're not dealing with the substitution with the food or the weed or the alcohol or the whatever, you know, then they think, "Oh, well, the guy's not using porn, so he's a success." Yeah.
>> But for a while, but then, you know, but now he's 300 lb, you know, and stoned and drunk, right? Or gambling or something, or whatever. Or how about, um, obsessive working out, right? Compulsive working out, you know, no, his muscles just, you know, like Terry Crews, right, who's open about his pornography addiction. You seen this guy's body? Oh my God. It's like obscene. It's like so,
>> Like what does it take to maintain that? He's got, guy's gonna be living at the gym. I don't know how he has time to like host America's Got Talent. He's got to like live in the gym. He's like,
>> Literally, he, he can have a suit on and he like takes his pecs and makes them go up and down. You can see it through like a three-piece suit, you know. But yeah, so it's not, I mean, people might think they're, they've got, you know, helping people stay off porn for a little while, but, you know, if you keep those addictive pathways going with something else, then you've just got, you're probably going to end up back in the porn, too. And then you've got multiple addictions to deal with. It's just,
>> Yeah. I think,
>> It's a [ __ ] show, my friend. It's a [ __ ] show. The thing that would always come up for me if I was listening to this and I didn't have the full, like, Beyond Compulsion method, when you say those things is like, "What are you going to do then? Like, are you just going to live like a monk?" But the reality is,
>> You will know what to do. Like, this is the difference is, uh, you're not going to feel like you need to always be doing something once you're beyond compulsion. Like, that's kind of the point of it is like, you can actually get to a position where you might feel a bit uncomfortable, but it's just like, "Yeah, I feel a bit uncomfortable, you know?"
>> Yeah.
>> You don't have to go to the gym to like run away from the discomfort or do all this crazy stuff. It's just like, "Yeah, I mean,
>> Yeah, you can do those things in a take it or leave it way,
>> And actually benefit from them when you're not using them to try to outrun addictive desire, you know?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Be reasonable, people. Be reasonable. We got. Well, there's a whole lot of unreasonable going on right now. I mean, I just like,
>> I was, I was gonna take, uh, videotape this, um,
>> Commercial last night when I was watching the football game. Can't remember what it was, but it was just like, "Oh, I think it was, it had to do with, um, I don't know, nothing, nothing super related, but the extremes in the commercial where people are just like going crazy to get to some sale thing or I don't even know what the [ __ ] it was. I should have taped it for you, but,
>> I was just like watching it going, "This is so not normal for people to act like psychotic over over, um, saving, saving, you know, I don't know, 20 bucks a month on some subscription or whatever the [ __ ] the, I don't know what the commercial was, but I was just looking at it going, how do these people actually get on site to film this thing and act like this and and think like somehow this is normal or okay or whatever, but that's what's going to sell, I guess. You know, just go get out of control. Get out of, be just completely psychotically out of control. And so then we're going to validate this with the commercial. So you're going to go buy their product or whatever they're selling, you know?
>> I was, uh,
>> Cuckoo. I was walking through Phillips Park in Manchester the other day, coming home from a long walk, and there was a bus,
>> And it's like owned by the council as well, like this bus. So I'm guessing the advertiser had paid Manchester Council to have their ad on this bus. And the ad was, uh, Pizza Chicago Town Pizza. And I think they're quite good. I think they're decent pizzas. I've had these a few times in the past. But then the big text on it, and we may have covered this before, potentially, but the big text was, "Feed the urge." Oh my God.
>> The urge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy.
>> Um, yeah. Yeah. Someone's, someone of the guys just sent us a crazy ad, too. I don't remember what it was, but,
>> Yeah, you're crazy.
>> Once you know what's it,
>> What, what?
>> You can't go back. Like, what, once you see it in society, like you see the junky thinking, you can't go back from that. Like, you just see it everywhere. And that's why like loads of our clients will just send us WhatsApps of mad [ __ ] they see around them and they're like, "Tom and Mary, look at this." And it's like,
>> "Your craving deserves a whatever," you know?
>> Oh goodness. Yeah. It's really, it's really out of control. And, you know, the masses are going to keep getting stuck in it. And hopefully, people that can recognize it will be like, "Want to take a different route," and we're here for that, you know?
>> Yeah. Definitely can change your pathways. And, and you say, you say we go against the grain, which I think is brilliant, you know, because the grain is like, I don't want to go there, you know?
>> No, I don't want to be part of the grain.
>> Me neither.
% Um, yeah.
>> I think,
>> I think what we talk about here, you know,
>> I don't know. I, I hate saying "I don't know." I like to say, "I know," right? But,
>> What do you know, Tom?
>> Exactly. I was about to say something along the lines of, "Well, you know, there are a lot of people who think very rationally. They, they aren't engaging in compulsivities. It's not like everyone is in a compulsivity." Then I just flash back to walking to the office this morning, and there's these two people walking just behind me, and the guy was on about how he hasn't eaten any food today, and how that walk that he was on right there, as he's walking behind me, was to help him earn some, I don't know, some calorie deficient [ __ ]. I don't know. He was basically saying like, "I'm going to be able to earn myself some food later on today by being on this walk." And that's why he was on the walk with the person next to him. And even that, I was just like, "What is going on? Like, you don't need to go on a walk to earn your ability to eat other like items. Like, what?" Oh.
>> So yeah, I don't even know. Like, it is around us all the time, isn't it? Uh, it really is.
>> Everywhere. This morning, non-stop nonsense. Yeah. All right.
>> Help is here, man. Help is here.
>> Help is here. Yeah. Yeah. Get involved. Get involved. All right. Cool. We'll wrap it up here. If you would like to learn more about the Beyond Compulsion method, go to www.beyondcompulsionacademy.com. I'll also leave a link to Mary's website below, and hopefully, we'll find a link to "I Brought Sad Food," which is a really great article. Go give that a read if you like, and we'll see you in the next episode. Bye-bye.
>> Thank you. [Music]