Everyday Herbalism for Families From Tummy Aches to Big Feelings panel discussion

Welcome, everyone. I'm your host, Lindsey Feldpausch. And I am so glad that you are all here for this conversation on everyday herbalism for families. From tummy aches to big feelings.

Today we are gathering around the fact that herbalism isn't just something we study. It's something we live in our daily lives for ourselves and for the people we love. This panel is all about bringing herbalism into the rhythm of daily life for you and your family. We'll explore the practical, gentle ways that herbs can support digestion, immunity, sleep, emotional regulation, those big feelings that children and adults navigate. We have three wonderful presenters for our discussion today, each bringing their own experience, insights, and approaches to working with herbs. Ladies, let's take a moment and have each of you introduce yourself. And thank you all so much for being here.

Hi, I'm Jane Metzger. I'm the Co-director here at Herbal Academy. I spend a lot of my time working on course development projects and heading up The Herbarium, our membership site, and curating content in that space. I have to say, I love being part of the team that helps create our educational offerings. Herbal Academy is a big part of how I work in the realm of herbalism, but I'd also describe myself as a gardener and a family herbalist.

Hi, my name is Lisa Olson, and I'm the Course Development Director here at Herbal Academy. And before I was coordinating course development, I did some of the writing for the original Introductory and Intermediate Courses back in 2011, maybe 2010. And so I still do writing for the courses and other forms of teaching, but now I'm leading course development for various course projects as well.

And I am Meagan Visser, and I am one of the staff herbalists here at the Herbal Academy. And that means that I do a lot of different things for different departments, from course development work to marketing support, work in the student communities in My Herbal Studies, or answering questions on Facebook and Instagram, things like that. And I recently stepped into the role of Continuing Education Program Director, which is a new adventure for Herbal Academy, where we are trying to offer our courses as continuing education for medical professionals who need to get their licensure and just spread the word about herbalism to these different disciplines. So, I'm really excited about this new project.

Yeah. I love having the three of you here. You all work so hard behind the scenes to cultivate the incredible courses at the Herbal Academy. And it's so wonderful to just, like, bring you out to the audience and have your faces here with us today. So, we're going to be talking about herbalism, daily life, using herbs, and families. And, you know, all of us are moms, so we do have this great experience of living herbalism as parents. I want to start off by asking all of you, how do you make herbalism a part of your everyday life for you and for your families?

So, for me, it's definitely multifaceted. I'm sure for all of us it is. Herbalism has always been, for me, kind of about just being drawn to plants. And I just have this curiosity, I want to know about them. It's what I see in the landscape, you know, when I'm visiting, when I'm hiking, you know. And so I just, I tune into that in a lot of different ways. It definitely expanded and became more focused when my kids were born because I really wanted to know more about how to support them at home, and to the best of my ability. And so, you know, a lot of my focus has been on, you know, family focused herbalism as well as, you know, the things that we were doing at home. My kids are in college now, and they, you know, they don't need me as much, which is fine, you know, this is part of the process. And so, my day to day is really focused primarily on my own needs, although I do still support family members. But I think for me, there's just like, I've established a strong routine, like focused in the morning and evening of ways that I take herbs for myself and then just kind of this flow of, you know, herbs and foods that include herbs throughout the day. And I think, you know, obviously herbs, we benefit from repetition when we're working with herbs. Right. And so, for me, having a really structured routine around that has been helpful. And then I've also, you know, you know, and this has been happening right along too. But just focusing more on myself now, it's like, well, such and such is going on, what if I try this and, you know, for a period of time and observe that? So, more experimentation and like, observation and, you know, just maybe these mini personal clinical trials, so to speak, with no controls or anything like that. But anyway, it's helpful information and data points for me. Gardening is a really big part of herbalism for me. I've just loved gardening since I was a kid. And so obviously I've included herbs in that as well. And I, not just to harvest. I mean, obviously I love to be able to be growing and harvesting my own foods, but also just having the plants in my garden to observe them or just look at them or be around them. So that's a big part. And then obviously self study and my work with herbalism is a big part of how, you know, I do that day to day.

For me, I'll go next. In addition to working as an herbalist here at Herbal Academy, so I'm always kind of thinking about herbs and teaching about herbs. Herbs truly are a part of my everyday life. And I'd say a lot of that happens in the kitchen. So, when I'm cooking meals for my family, I'm often selecting spices and herbs for the meals that kind of match how everyone in the house is feeling or, you know, based on the energetics of the season. So, in the summer, I'm trying to incorporate less of the spicy spices in my meals. You know, all spices, most spices are warming, right? But I choose the less warming spices in the summer, like fennel and coriander, and then adding, you know, mustard and thyme and things like that in the winter. And then, you know, if we're in the midst of like sick season, I'll be adding some immune support to our meals and antimicrobial herbs. So, I'm constantly thinking about that when I'm cooking. And then also, I tend to make a pot of tea for me and the kids usually at least once a day. It's not like a routine where every day at 2 o' clock I make the tea. But there's always some point in the day where I'm like, "Okay, it's tea time." And that has been such a beautiful anchor, I think for me and my kids to have that time where I'm checking in with everybody, like really closely, like, okay, what do we need right now? Do we need calming herbs? Usually it's calming because I have a 2, a 3, and an 8 year old. So, we need a lot of extra calm support. But you know, sometimes it's uplifting herbs or energizing, or you know, those antimicrobials and immune support if it's sick season. But this has been a really beautiful practice. I think, especially with young kids, if something's bothering them, they most of the time can't really express what it is or tell you what they need. But it seems like they have this inherent trust in herbs and nature in general, and herbs as a part of that. Just having that pot of tea that's there for support for them has been really helpful. I can think about a couple of weeks ago, one of our chickens, my 8-year-old son's favorite chicken got got by a fox. And he was just understandably beside himself, right? Like, just crying, crying, crying. Nothing I could say would help, of course. He didn't want to hug. So, I was like, okay, let's go inside and make some tea. And, you know, the sniffles kind of stop and slow down. It's like, "Okay, yeah, let's make some tea." And we get inside, and he's like, "Mom, I think rose needs to be in the tea." And I'm like, "Yeah, I think so, too. Great choice." And then I was like, I'm also going to put some lemon balm and some hawthorn. And what else did I put in there? Some anise hyssop. And these are, you know, just going to help soften your heart a little bit. That's feeling, like, really brokenhearted. And that was the best medicine for him. You know, nothing I could have said or done would have worked as well as just that tea that's there every day and made special for him. So that's a big part of our routine. And, you know, that's the way that we take herbs into our body every day. But, like, Jane, I'm a big gardener, and I have a lot of herbs in my garden, and me and my family are all big foragers. So, there's always also some kind of herbal project going on, at least, you know, once or twice a week, harvesting something from the wild or the garden, making some kind of preparation with that. And I always, like, 99% of the time, involve my kids with that because, you know, for a learning experience and also because they think it's really fun.

Yeah. So, I, you know, I reiterate what you guys have already said, but I think I'll speak a little bit more towards, like, family herbalism, because that is kind of how I got started in herbs. Like you said, Jane, with having kids, it kind of, like, sparks you to, you know, dive a little bit deeper into herbalism. And so, for me, you know, like, my goal is to teach my kids how to use herbs, to continually use them, to become familiar, more confident, all of that stuff with it. So, I have always just tried to have, like, herbs on hand, you know, make sure that, like, our apothecary is full of dried herbs. They love to go and just, they'll just open the cabinets, and I'll remind them, like, all of the herbs are in ABC order, and they'll go and find what they want, and they'll make their own tea blends. And when they were little, it was like me going with them and like, talking to them about, okay, how are you feeling? And, you know, like, let's talk about the different herbs that are fit for your needs at the moment. But now that they're older, it's exciting for me to see that they have learned and they've remembered and they can just go and pick their own little dried herbs out of the cabinet and make their own tea blends. But it's very important to have those things on hand. And so, like, same thing with you, Lisa, when you mentioned foraging, like, that's something that when my kids were little, we would do a lot together. Now that they're older, they are busy to kind of doing their own thing. And they don't always love to go foraging with Mom. But I still, you know, it's like we have fresh plants that I bring in, and I'm, you know, asking them, "Hey, who wants to help me process these herbs?" Whether we're going to dry them or we're going to make them, you know, into some sort of herbal preparation. And sometimes they'll help out. But just having all of that stuff available is very important because I want to teach them that this is our first choice. When something's going on, we want to be able to have the stuff that they can draw from to use. So having seasonal preparations on hand, whether that's like, tinctures, oils, different things like that, just so that they can go find what they need to make a recipe, or if they say, "Hey, I'm not feeling great." Then I'll go with them and we'll kind of just do things together. I really do try to, like, pull them into everything. And as they have gotten older, I feel like they don't ask for help as often, or I will have. If I feel like they're not feeling well, I'll have to say, like, "Hey, are you not feeling okay?" Or, you know, "What's going on?" Because, like, when they're little, it's a lot easier for them to come and say, "Mom, I don't feel good." But as teenagers, you know, they've got this. And so, they don't always come to me. So, it's just offering herbal support, offering help, not demanding that they take herbs or, you know, you know, use a tea or anything like that. It's just having that stuff available, offering it for help, getting them involved as much as possible. So that is pretty much like what I try, like this environment or atmosphere that I try to foster in our home so that my kids are a part of it. And it's not just my thing. You know, they've been raised from the time they were babies with this is just the norm, this is what we do. And so, then that's pretty much like the majority of the practice of family herbalism in our home. And then of course, like you guys said, like, just working for Herbal Academy, that makes it a part of my life every single day. And I have had to kind of force myself to like, really work it in, work herbalism, aside from my job and what I'm doing, just to have my own personal thing. Like you were saying, Jane. And like you, you know, you make your cup of tea, and you're trying to do your own self experiments or whatever. It's easy to just like, do the job, like show up and work, and then, you know, close the computer. You're done for the day. But herbalism is personal. And so, I have to set aside work sometimes and really say, like, okay, what do you need to work on? Like, how do you need to put herbs into more practice in my own life? So, yeah, that's kind of been, I don't want to say a new thing, but I've been trying to challenge myself to do that a little bit more here lately.

I love how all of you have kind of cultivated these foundations for yourselves and for your families to set these, you know, expectations or rituals within, to have herbs as a part of your everyday life. And I definitely feel the same with my family and my child, who is 13. And he's definitely not excited about herbs as he was when he was younger, right? Where it was just like, oh, there was some magical aspects to the practice that he really adored. And now, you know, I think that that's waning a little bit. But I will say that recently when he had a cold, he came to me and he said, "I'm congested, and I think I should probably do a steam." An herbal steam, you know. And so, he went and got the thyme, and he got the bowl, and he got the towel, and I started boiling water for him. And, you know, he initiated that practice. I was just so glad because it was exactly what he needed. And I know that all the work that we do as parents, like set them up for that is what led to his reaching for that tool and utilizing it for his own well being in that time. So, you know, while our family members maybe don't always love to participate or children, you know, love to participate, I do want to hear what rituals are you all experiencing in your family that folks can get excited about being a part of.

Yeah, I think it's interesting that, you know, we all have observed that, you know, with the younger kids, herbalism, in some ways, it's easier. And also, for me, too, it was like an activity, you know, because it was always like, we're going to pick strawberries today, and then we're going to go, you know, going to pick lemon balm, and we're going to, you know, make a tree leaf project. You know, like, it was really, it was like arts and crafts and foods and like, outdoor time, you know, all the things. One of the things that we used to do, and I did this with my mom, too, which is, you know, certainly part of what spurred me to do annual elderberry foraging with my kids. My mom had found a big patch in northern Michigan that we would harvest from every year. And we would make elderberry jelly. I live in Massachusetts and, you know, had moved to a new town. And so, when my kids were young, part of that was exploration for me, too. And so, in June, as we'd be driving around to piano lessons or baseball practice or going on a hike or, you know, a bike ride or whatever, I would always point out the big, creamy white umbels of elderberry or elder bushes because they're very easy to spot in the environment. And I'll let you in on the secret. I had a map specifically for this that I kept in my glove box of the car. And so as soon as I'd see a new one, you know, I put an X on it or, you know, show the kids where it was so they could put an X on it. So then I knew in August when the berries were ripening, you know, then I could look back at that and remember, you know, all the places we saw them. And obviously we couldn't harvest at all of them, you know, because sometimes they're like, right off the roadway where we're seeing them. But there were a few spots I felt comfortable harvesting from. And so, we'd go back there, you know, hopefully beat the birds and harvest berries. And, you know, it doesn't even, like, it's fairly easy to get enough berries, like, for the fall and winter, you know, of elderberries and, you know, and then turn them into elderberry syrup or dry them or, you know, whatever you're going to need or prefer. But I also really like that it was like, well, it was an activity for my kids, but also, and me, but also like a really focused way to kind of pay attention to the landscape. Connect with the landscape. Pick one plant that you're noticing in that, and it's like kind of orienting you or them, both of us, to our plant neighbors and so on. So, you know, and I think that if you're not able to go foraging, you could also, you know, accomplish this with plants in the garden or in a pot on the patio and, you know, give your kids that connection. But a big part of it for me was like, kind of creating these annual rhythms that I think are kind of can be really nice cornerstones for everyone.

I love that so much. Jane, your elderberry map. I'll have to see if I can dig it up. Yeah, and you're so right that it's so helpful to have these activities for especially young kids. And hearing you all with your older kids, talking about them not wanting to do the herby things with you anymore, I'm definitely going to hold tighter to my precious herb activities with my young kids because, yeah, I think having young kids, it can be, you know, it can be hard, it can be exciting, it can be boring sometimes. And having those activities to keep everybody happy and engaged is so important. And like you said, Jane, the annual rhythm of having things to come back to every year is so special. I mean, my kids really love that. One thing that my kids really love to do right now. I talked a little bit about how I usually make a pot of tea every day. Sometimes they want to do that bit. They'll say, "Mom, I think it's time for tea and we're going to make it today." And so, I've made them this little what we call the tea basket. It's just kind of like a round basket with a handle. And it fits, I think, seven or eight of those little, what are those, half pint jars, I think? And looks like a little flower because there's one in the center and then the others are all around and they each have, each of the jars has an herb that's safe for kids in it. And you know, I'll switch it out seasonally so there's always something different in there. But they take down that basket and it has a little scoop in it. And I take all the lids off for them and set it out on the table. And then I give them a teapot that has like a built in strainer. And then they can just choose how much and which herbs go in there. And they love it. And they're so much more likely to drink the tea after they make it themselves. Right? And sometimes they'll be like, "Wow, we just made this amazing tea blend. We have to remember what we put in there." And we write it down. And so, we have a few, like, family recipes, you know, that the kids have made that they come back to again and again. Like, I remember this one time we were outside in the winter, and it wasn't supposed to snow, so we weren't, like, too, too bundled up, but all of a sudden it just started snowing. There was this huge blizzard. There's wind and snow in our face, and we're running inside because we're very cold. And as soon as we get in, my son said, "Let's make some tea." And so, he made a tea with the tea basket and loved the recipe, and he called it Snow Squall Tea. And that was three years ago, and we still have, we continually make a batch, and it's on the counter, or I mean, on the shelf. And he'll say, "We need some Snow Squall Tea right now." And it's just so sweet. So that's one of my favorite rituals that me and the kids do right now.

I love that so much, Lisa. What a beautiful idea. I want to share briefly one of the biggest wins that I feel like I've had in my family, with my family members, is my husband, who is, like, such a great herbalist now. And he's never studied. You know, he's just lived this herbal life vicariously through me and the work that I've done in this world. And so now I look at him and I'm just like, "You use herbs maybe even more than I do." I mean, he does all the cooking in our family, so he's constantly utilizing the herbal seasoning blends that I've cultivated. He has his, like, daily regimens and tinctures that he takes. He loves my infused vinegars and oxymels. And I think that's something to celebrate in my world, where it's just like, oh, wow. Like, you know, this has inspired this person who was never really interested in herbalism to be, like, a great herbalist. And then when things arise for, like, cold and flu season, he's like, "Oh, I'm going to reach for the Andrographis." Or I know that, like, now it's time for some fresh ginger juice. And, yeah, it's so fun to see these people in our lives being inspired and active in these practices of herbalism. So, I'm curious from all of you, like, what types of ailments have you felt capable of handling in your home lives? And where do we draw the line between, like, practicing home herbalism and seeking out medical interventions.

Yeah, so I. I can speak to this. I forgot to mention earlier in the introduction that I am a registered nurse. And so, for this question, I feel like that has helped me feel a bit more confident in handling things at home, especially since, you know, I studied to be a nurse before I learned anything about herbalism. I kind of just came into herbalism with this more medical mindset. And so, you know, over the years, learning about herbs and how to kind of integrate those two things together has helped me to become more confident. And like I said earlier, in my family, herbs are, like, the first resource that we lean on whenever something's going on. Then, of course, if we need medical intervention, we will seek that route. And I think for us, you know, when my kids were little and I had less experience and less knowledge at that time, simple things, you know, sleep disturbances, like, you know, herbal teas with relaxing nervines were helpful for them. Or, you know, digestive upset. Basic things like bee stings or sunburns, splinters. Those kinds of things I felt confident in handling. I was a nurse in the emergency room, so first aid stuff, I was like, I've got this. This is fine. And then learning how to use herbs for, like, say, infections, like viral, bacterial, fungal infections. Now, that took a little bit more time. I feel like I understood, you know, like, the pathophysiology of how that worked and what was going on in the body, but trying to figure out, like, the first steps of using herbs for support for those things. When my kids, you know, face things, whether it was, like, conjunctivitis or pink eye or some sort of, like, thrush when they were babies, you know, it takes a little bit of experience and seeking out other people who were ahead of me in herbalism. Getting some advice from people with more knowledge and experience than I had. But over the years, I have felt more confident in handling some of those things. I've had my own success in, you know, using those sorts of things with my kids. Now, as far as, like, I guess, drawing the line between home care and medical intervention, I personally, it's always kind of been anything that is outside my scope of practice. And again, that changes depending on, you know, your knowledge and experience level with herbalism. So for me, it's like, if they need staples or sutures, if there's, like, a broken bone and we need an x-ray or lab work or anything like that, I am seeking, you know, medical intervention for those sorts of things. If, say something's going on and it's not getting any better, then I'm going to take them to the doctor. Or if I need some sort of medical diagnosis so that I know how to use herbs to better support them, then I will need to go do that. And then obviously any sort of like, critical situation that requires the ER, like, you know, we're going. So, I think it's really just for me kind of knowing my boundaries and being okay with that. You know, when I was a brand new herbalist and I had my third kid. Well, I guess I shouldn't say brand new. I was on my third child. So, I had been learning and studying for five or six years now at that point. But my baby, who was like 8 months old, he just developed this fever. And you know, I thought, oh, he's picked up a virus, no big deal. And I'm, you know, doing the things that you can do for an eight month old to help with immune support at that time, making sure he's, you know, drinking and nursing and doing all the things. And he just did not get better. And eventually I noticed he had a little red spot on his leg. So, this is in the middle of winter and they have like onesies that completely cover them. And he's crawling, but I don't know how he got this. And so as like my nurse brain kicked in and I was like, that looks like cellulitis. So immediately I was like, this is not a time for herbs. This is a time for me to take him to the doctor and get the kind of help he needs. And that's what we did. And I was completely okay with that because I knew my limitations. Right. And then of course, over the years, I've gotten more confident with certain things that I have felt comfortable handling at home. But then there are things that we definitely still seek medical help for. And yeah, I just, I think that's just very personal for all of us.

Yeah, it is so personal. And I can also speak to this as someone who's not a nurse, but I was a clinical herbalist before I had kids. So maybe a slightly different perspective from Meagan, but pretty similar to what she said. I feel like, and it's a hard question to answer, right, because I could just say, "Well, I just, I take care of things at home if I feel comfortable taking care of things at home. But to give you more of an idea of kind of my thought process. I'd say that if something is new, like if it's not something my kids have dealt with before, and it comes up. If it's severe or maybe a little bit under severe, like if they're in a lot of pain and crying a lot, and I don't know what it's from or if something is happening for a long period of time, those are the times when I would say, "Okay, we need to go to the doctor and see what's going on here." But for run of the mill, like, respiratory infections and skin stuff and belly aches, those, you know, I can take care of at home with herbs. And I'm really, I feel lucky that I have a pediatrician in our community who's a naturopathic doctor. He does see adults, too, but he mostly sees kids. And, you know, my kids have gone to him since they were babies. And he, I wouldn't say he's an herbalist. He uses herbs sometimes, but that's not his specialty. But he knows I'm an herbalist. And so, we have this really great relationship where if I'm unsure if I should just kind of wait and see, use herbs, see what happens, or if something else is required, I will always take them in. So, if ever it's something like I said, new, severe, chronic, I'll take them in and check in with him, and he's really great and honest with me, and he'll be like, "I don't think we need to do anything here. I'm sure you can handle it with herbs." So, it's really nice to have someone that can kind of give me that confidence that I need. Because, of course, you don't want to be the person who's like, "Oh, I'm sure I can handle this with herbs." And it ends up being something really severe. And you never checked in with your doctor about it. That would be awful. Right? And so I, well, for example, when my son had Lyme disease, I didn't know he had Lyme disease at the time. And at first, he was just kind of complaining that his knees were hurting a little bit, and I thought maybe he tweaked them while he was running around. And so, at first, we were just doing some topical support, but it seemed to get worse to the point where he was, like, complaining about it every day. And then it got to the point where he was, like, crying in pain, like, it hurts so bad, you know? So, then I definitely called the doctor and he did some tests, and we found out he has Lyme disease. And then I needed the doctor's support to help me decide what antibiotic to use. And what dose, of course. And because I feel like with something like Lyme disease, you really do want to take the antibiotics and use the herbs alongside that. And so he was there to help with the antibiotics and that protocol, and then I was there to give him herbal support. So, it's really nice to have a practitioner you can kind of work with in that way. And that's what I always do. Take them in when there's any doubt and use herbs otherwise.

I think this is some really supportive information that you both have offered for our audience members out there listening who may not have as much experience in the medical field or in the herbal field to support their families. And just hearing how you all have dealt with this in the past or kind of where your boundaries lie will allow us to move into our questions to come where we're talking about specific occurrences of ailments. So let's start off with our go-to digestive allies for upset tummies and how you're choosing them depending on the condition that is being experienced.

So, my go-tos have typically been some form of mint tea, chamomile tea, which is useful in so many ways. And then anise or fennel seeds. They all are, you know, aromatic. They have, you know, volatile oils in them that help with spasm. They're carminatives. They help move gas out of the body. They have a little, well, maybe not mint so much, but chamomile and like anise or fennel have kind of a little bitter edge, depending on how long you steep them. And so, they can help support digestive secretions. And so, I used to, well, I still do, but one of my favorite blends was chamomile, orange peel, and anise seeds. Or you could sub in fennel seeds. And I think that this recipe is actually in our Intermediate Course. But it's so yummy. I mean, I just drink it as a, like, beverage tea too. It has that gentle apple flavor of chamomile and then kind of that little zing of orange and of the orange peel, and then slight licorice sweetness of the anise or the fennel seeds. And like I said, it can have like a tiny little bitter edge, but not so much that it turns off kids to that taste. So, I found that that was something that was not only really effective, but also, you know, easy to get them to take because they enjoyed the taste of it. I would say adding in the chamomile, then also as a nervine kind of supporting maybe that like anxiety or crankiness around, you know, when a kiddo has stomach upset. And so that could be helpful in that regard as well. If we weren't making a tea or if like, we just needed something really fast, I would give them a pinch of anise or fennel seeds just to kind of chew/suck on, because then that would get, you know, that into their system pretty quickly. Or you could crush that up a bit and put it in like a spoonful of honey. And if you actually planned ahead, I didn't always do this, but, you know, using those as a powdered herb mixed with honey in an electuary and then you just have it, you know, on hand, at the ready. If that is like something that is commonly needed for your kiddos. If they do happily sip on tea, then other herbs that I would use in that form were mint or catnip. Again, soothing and relaxing as carminatives, but also has that, you know, they have that nervine effect to catnip more so more of a calming nervine. Mint. Like if you're using, you can use peppermint, but if they want like a mellower flavor, you could use spearmint. And then, you know, catnip. I found that the kids generally enjoyed that with some honey. And, you know, it had, you know, that calming effect as well. Oh, and don't, and also, like, this is actually one of my favorite herbs that I use for a lot of things. But ginger was also key either like as a ginger tea. And that can also be really nice if there's like a component of nausea, you know, to the tummy troubles. And I'd often just kind of in my first aid kit, keep ginger pastilles or like ginger chews in there. So, it was really easy to grab those like in a hurry.

I always forget about those ginger chews. That's a really good thing to have on hand, Jane. Or you could even like just some of the candied ginger. Candied dried ginger. Yeah.

Well, my two, I'd say my top two go-tos are chamomile and fennel. Similar to Jane, I typically turn to chamomile if it's kind of like a run-of-the-mill, my belly hurts. But there's no obvious cause. I don't think that they ate too much or ate something that upset them. And I chalk it up to stress or some kind of emotional upset. Since chamomile is such a lovely carminative and also a calming nervine, which is just so handy to have together in one package. Thank you, chamomile. And I'd say this is most of the time, right? Most of the time my kids are telling me their belly hurts. I think it's probably stress or emotion related. And so I turn to chamomile. It's funny, as a new mom, I really didn't think that that would be happening as much as it does. Of course, I know that my body is affected by my emotions and I know all about the gut-brain axis and all that, but just how common it happens in kids was surprising to me. And I remember when my oldest was younger, there was a period of time where he was saying every day his belly hurt. And I was certain there was something very serious going on, and was very worried. And I remember there was like a wait to get in to see the doctor and I was like, just absolutely certain there was something horrible going on because it was every day. And, and my doctor, like, I just talked about, he was like, it's probably just stress because I talked about how we, there was something going on at home that was a little stressful. But, you know, he did his due diligence and ran some tests and felt around on his belly and he's like, yeah, I think, he assured me that this is very, very common in kids. So, I really needed to hear that because when your kid is telling you their belly hurts, it's hard not to be like, "Oh boy, here comes the stomach bug." Or like, "Oh my gosh, something terrible is about to happen." It's nice to have that reassurance that, yes, most of the time it's just emotional stress related. And so, we end up using chamomile a lot for that reason. And I'd say if, you know, both of my kids like the taste of chamomile, but if they didn't, I would probably switch that up. Maybe try like lemon balm or anise hyssop or something if they were needing the chamomile a lot and getting sick of it, which hasn't happened, but I think if it did, those are two other herbs that I would kind of use in the same way as chamomile. And then I'll turn to fennel or anise, as Jane mentioned. We happen to have fennel on hand more of the time, if I know that it's related to something they ate. Like if, you know, they just gorged on pizza or something or I know they ate something that doesn't always sit well with them. We'll use fennel for that because it's such a nice antispasmodic and carminative. And it's also aperient. So, if they're telling me their belly hurts and I know they haven't pooped in a day or something like that, I'll definitely turn to fennel for that. And like Jane mentioned, I often don't even make a tea out of fennel. They love chewing on the seeds. So, I'll just give them some seeds, and they'll chew on that and that usually does the trick. And I'd say if they didn't like fennel, I might turn to mint as a similar kind of antispasmodic carminative. I remember using fennel as well as catnip for like that kind of gripe water combination when Odin was younger. And, you know, fennel plus catnip was this like instant pressure release valve for the stomach when, you know, just be like, "Oh, you're a little gassy." Like, okay. Next thing you know, I give just a little bit of tea, and there it went. And next thing you know, the baby is much better. So those are some really great herbs for digestive upset and obviously some like classic allies for us to be using in those cases.

I want to talk about herbal preparations next that your children are actually willing to take. So obviously we've already talked about like the ways that we've set the foundation for our children to build relationships with herbs. But I don't know about you guys, my child is extremely picky. Like he does not, he has sensory issues with foods. He has very strong flavor dislikes and in some cases likes. But yeah, so herbs can be a challenge in that way. So how are you getting your kids to take herbs and which preparations do they actually enjoy to take?

Yeah, I have one of those kids, Lindsey, and then, you know, my 8 year old on the other hand, I am always so surprised. Since he was little, he will take any herb that I'll give him. I've given him like the nastiest tinctures, you know, like bacopa and valerian. He's just like, yeah, no problem. So, for a while I feel like I didn't need to have that skill of making things tasty for kids because I could just give him anything. But my 3 year old is like Odin and very, very picky and has maybe some sensory stuff going on with foods and textures and tastes. And he'll take like a few sips of maybe a chamomile tea or maybe peppermint or lemon balm. But anything else, unless it's heavily sweetened, no go. So, if I really need him to take something, it's basically either a heavily sweetened tea or a syrup, which, you know, it's kind of the same thing depending on how much sugar you add to that tea, or honey or maple syrup. Glycerites. He'll often be okay with that because it's such a small dose, and obviously it's sweet. So that's been a good one for him. I'll do Bliss Balls sometimes, so it feels more like a snack. And, you know, I'll make them like sweet and salty. So it really does taste like a snack, but has the herbal powders in it. So for those of you that aren't familiar, that's like a nut butter mixed with honey, usually and some powdered herbs. So that's been a way to get herbs into him. Another thing I'll do is I'll take, I usually use jaggery, which is just kind of unprocessed, boiled down cane syrup with ghee. I'll mix those two with some herbal powders and just kind of roll them into little tablets. And so they're pretty small. And he'll take those as well because, again, it feels like candy, essentially. And what else? One thing that I do often that is usually a hit for my picky eater is I will make a tea. I'll add sweetener to it, just a little bit like honey or maple syrup, and then let it cool. And then I'll add some frozen berries to that, usually like blackberries or raspberries. Just a handful. And then I'll stir it up really, really good. So that kind of fruit juice is getting in there with the tea. And then I'll add a splash of vinegar. So it's kind of like a shrubby sort of beverage, but a little less vinegary than your typical shrub. And that's really nice in the summer. I don't do it as often in the winter, obviously, because it's iced. But he will often drink that down. So that's another way to get tea into him. But it's tough, you know, you basically have to rely on that sweetener to get herbs into my little one. Yeah.

So I can, I can totally relate to having my kids when they were little, having to sweeten everything to get them to take things. I guess, you know, most of my kids were not too picky. Like, I feel like I could do a little bit of honey in tea or maple syrup or something like that. And they would drink it. If they were a little resistant, depending on what the herb was, I would mix the herbal tea with a little bit of, like, organic juice, like grape juice, because it's such a strong flavor. And that would help them to drink it. Feel like they were getting a treat by getting some juice, which they didn't really get too much of. And then there was that herbal tea in there. And like you mentioned, Lisa, syrups, glycerites. I often would do, like, elixirs for the boys as they got a little older. If I really needed a tincture, I would just mix it with a little bit of honey. And that would make it easier to take. We would just squirt it in a little bit of water or, again, some juice and just have them kind of like, shoot that back in a little bitty cup. That was fun for them. But they were pretty good about just following my recommendations and using herbal preparations. Like, if they would sit still long enough, they would be good with poultices or anything like that that I put on them. Sometimes I'd have to bandage them on because they wanted to run off and play. But, you know, they would use things like that. They loved electuaries. When I finally figured out about how to make pastilles, because I think I just did electuaries I think for the most part, and when they were little and then I was like, oh, I can make these pastilles and put them in little containers. And they love that because they can just go get a pastille and pop it in their mouth and suck on it for a while if they have a sore throat or something like that. So, they were always pretty good about using things like that. Now as they've gotten older, then I don't have to, like, sweeten things as much. They will just take it because they still trust that mom knows what she's talking about. And she's saying, you should take these things. So, I don't have to sweeten things as much. But they will pretty much still do any sort of herbal preparations. The only ones that I have had resistance to from them as teenagers are sinus rinses. Because they do not like how it feels for the liquid to go, you know, like using a neti pot or anything like that. They're just like, no, I will just be sick. I'm not using that. And then. Not that I have. Not that we have ever done this, but we have.

said before, like, they're like, "I am never taking an herbal enema." Don't even ask me to take that. I'm like, "I would never offer that to you at this age. Don't worry about it." But those are the two things. Two different kinds of herbal preparations that are just, that is just off the board. We are not even going to consider that. But other than that, they're really good about everything.

You are so lucky. It's just the thought that you have four children who all just like, abide by your herbal choices is incredible, Meagan. Me with my single child, I will say a couple of tricks that I have developed is one, I can put stevia in any tea and he will drink it. So, he loves the taste of stevia. Not everyone does, for sure. But I will say that the herb itself actually tastes better than the powdered, in my opinion. So, like having cut and sifted stevia on hand, I can get him to drink tea with that addition. And then when he was younger and even still really today, like gummy anything. If I create gummy, you know, herbal gummies, he will usually take those because not only are they fun in the various shapes, like the Lego molds that I have. Yeah. But they usually taste pretty good. And that's certainly due to the sweetening. But you could use stevia in those as well. So.

Yeah. Since all of you are having some great successes, I'd love to hear if you have any tips for taste training these picky palates when we're raising our little herbalists. Well, I only have the experience of my two children for as far as training palates goes. But based on that very small sample size, and I actually really hate to say this, but honestly, I think the best thing you can do to train a palate is to avoid really sweet things for as long as possible, you know, when they're younger. With my first, I was like, I'm even embarrassed to say this, but I was just like, really strict about sugar. And he didn't have anything that was sweetened with anything, honey, maple syrup, till he was like three. And even then, it was just like muffins with a little honey. And he didn't have, you know, like candy until he was five or six. And he is the one that will take any herb and not bat an eye. But with my youngest, I had relaxed as a parent a little bit at that point. And also, I couldn't say no because his big brother was having sweet things and that wouldn't be fair. So, he has had sugar a lot earlier and like I said, is extremely picky. And it could totally be coincidence, but I do think that that early taste of really sweet things kinds of kind of sets you up for like preferring those and not being a little more shy about trying new unsweet things. But the other thing that I would say is really just getting them involved, of course, as much as possible. Like when they make their own tea, they're much more likely to drink it. If they help with some kind of other herbal preparation like a salve or a cream or a bath blend, they're like really excited to do it. And even if, you know, even if that doesn't mean that they're always going to drink tea, if they drink tea because they made it that one time, I think just kind of slowly getting them to drink more and more tea that way will eventually help out with the picky palate. The other thing I've noticed, and I have really have no idea why this is, but if we are out in the garden or in the forest or wherever and there's a wild herb or an herb growing in the garden, they will just gobble it down, you know, like they have no issues. Like with my three year old, he absolutely hates onions. If there's any onion in any kind of food, we have to pick it out or he won't eat it. But he will eat chives like endlessly in the garden. And to me, chives are way more spicy than a cooked onion. Right. There's something about them being with the actual plant and getting to just kind of take it right off the plant and eat it. There's something exciting about that for them. Right. So my thought is that the more I can encourage that, the more they'll develop a taste for those stronger or more bitter or at least less sweet things, and eventually that'll show up on the dinner plate, fingers crossed.

That makes me think of we did a lot of hiking with the kids when they were younger and in New Hampshire and well, anywhere in New England as you're hiking, you can see the little sorrel, the wood sorrel. And you know, you're in the middle of a hot, like sweaty hike, and you see those and like they have this little sour lemony pop. And the kids used to love to pick those and have like, I mean, they're tiny but just it's like fun little refreshment on the trail. And definitely things like, you know, eating dandelion flowers, like just the ray flowers and then, you know, violets from the garden, like, it's just delightful to them. Right. And that makes a big difference. I think both of you covered a lot of the things that I had been thinking about. You know, I think that they're just, there's also the aspect of just integrating the herbs into daily foods. Maybe they're not tasting them, but if they're aware that they're there, you know, it's not like you're trying to hide them, but, you know, so they're knowing that, yeah, there's astragalus in the soup base or I've added nettle to this. Or you know, like, if you're using like a tea or a fruit smoothie base with herbs and, you know, a lot of fruit and making popsicles or just drinking the smoothie as it is. Those are tasty and they're like, fun ways. Like, kids typically enjoy eating those things. And so even if, you know, and obviously there's the aspect of choosing tasty herbs for things like that too. But I think just that enjoyment level, especially like Lisa said, if you're involving them in the process and you know, they're making their own popsicles, they're excited to eat them. But yeah, like integrating just again, like, there's a lot of value in culinary herbs and nutritive herbs and integrating those into meals, you know, like, or maybe you make these herbal kind of salt blends. I used to do this with the kids and you know, if they can self select and those are on the table and maybe they sprinkle a little bit of nettle with sesame seeds and you know, like powdered lemon balm or whatever, you know, if, maybe they'll try that. And they don't put on a ton, but it's like training them that it, like, it's not terrible to add these herbs to their food. Yeah. So I mean, I think that that's like, for me, it was a balance of, like, well, there was a balance of involving them in things and introducing tasty foods, but then also like, okay, this is here. I've used this in here, and you're not really going to taste it, but you're going to get the benefits. Or this is here for you to choose from, you know, and hopefully eventually they will. And then there were the times that it was like, take this, it's going to make you feel better. Which, you know, has very mixed results short and long term.

I've definitely been there too, Jane. I love that you both mentioned the foraging aspect because you know, while I spoke towards my son being, like, very picky. Interestingly, as you mentioned, Lisa, like, he will not eat an onion, but he will eat onion grass, like, all day. He cultivates wild foraged salads that he will eat from, you know, chickweed and violet leaves. I mean, I remember this image of him swinging in our hammock and just, like, picking up violet leaves by the handful and just shoveling them into his mouth. And I have this picture of him, like, standing in front of a sassafras bush, which, if you all don't know, sassafras leaves are absolutely delicious. They're a little lemony, they're mucilaginous. He loves them. And they don't contain safroles, so you don't have to be concerned about consumption. And yeah, I have this picture of him like a dinosaur just sitting there eating, like, leaf with his mouth, like, no hands, just, like, consuming. And so, yeah, and he's developed those relationships with those plants through this, like, foraging perspective. But, you know, I imagine that if I had tried to, like, bring them into a dish in the house, it would have been a whole different story. So, yeah.

So, let's talk a little bit about dosing for our children and the rules that we should follow. Obviously, some plants, like those violet leaves he's scooping up by the handful, like, we're not really concerned, but there are absolutely many plants that we do need to consider dosage for when giving them to our children. So when, like, specific dosages were needing to be calculated, you know, like you said, Lindsey, if it's not kind of a more nutritive situation, then I think Clark's rule is kind of the easiest and probably what a lot of us follow where you're just, because adult doses are so widely available for herbs. And so then Clark's rule allows you to scale the dose to a child's weight in comparison to the average adult weight of 150 pounds. And so, like, you know, an example, you know, a child who weighs 50 pounds divided by 150 is 1/3. And so, if I'm drinking a cup of, you know, whatever tea, then the child gets a third of a cup. If I'm taking 12 grams of an herb throughout the day, the child would get 4 grams throughout the day. And then obviously, you know, different weights of children would get different amounts. There's also Young's rule, and this is based on age, which, you know, could be helpful in some situations. But if it's just you and you know, your children, and you can target it more specifically because you have that information. You're not making like a general product that's going to be sold in the marketplace or whatever. So that's what I think is most straightforward. I would also note that just like adults, some kids are more sensitive to herbs than others. And so, it's possible that like, you know, you play around with that, you start with, you know, what's calculated, and then you kind of titrate it based on your experience. So maybe, maybe it didn't really do much. And you're still like, there's still a safe range. And so you can like kind of up that dosage a little bit until you see an effect, you know, as long as that's still within what's considered safe. And then the other thing I will notice and you know, you kind of kicked this off by noting this, but I most typically worked with nutritive and culinary herbs with my kids. And so, there's like, you know, there's more of an error bar with those. And I mean technically that's, there's just more of a safe range, a wider range that you can work within safely. And so that allowed a little bit more wiggle room than for example, like if I was like selecting a, you know, acute use laxative or something like that, where you really would want to like dial that in a little more, more specifically. So that's, that's kind of the approach that I took.

Yeah, I agree with, just, I would do the exact same thing, you know, that you said, Jane. There was one thing I was thinking that I have done with my kids in the past. And like you were saying, if one cup of herb is the dosage for an adult and you know, you need to give them one third of this cup of tea for a child, sometimes just depending on what the herb is that you're using, it might be hard to get that dosage in. So like, let's just say that they're supposed to have that one third cup of tea and you're going to spread it out throughout the day. And let's say that the book that you're using recommends three times a day. And so you're just spreading that out three times a day. If that's too much for your child and they just don't want to take it, you can reduce the dosage and then just increase the frequency. I found that that's helpful, especially when my kids were very little or if they were sick and they weren't really interested in taking anything. If I just decrease the dosage, maybe even used one of those little like my kids loved doing this one little needleless syringes that you get, like the medicine dropper kind of things. And I would just, you know, suck up a little bit of tea or a little syrup in there and then let them kind of just push it into their mouth. They would take it so much better than me offering them a cup. And of course that's decreasing their dosage a lot. And then I just offer that way more frequently throughout the day. So that was very helpful for us when I was trying to get a certain amount into my kids throughout the day.

These are really good tips, guys. Let's move in to big feelings. So how do you all support your kiddos' nervous systems, and what are your non-herbal levers for making the herbs work even better? So, for me with my kids we have as far as like non-herbal things. I mean, diet has also or has always been the foundation. Making sure that they're eating good whole foods, that they're getting, you know, all of the macronutrients, lots of minerals, micronutrients, all those things in just a good, well-rounded diet. It can be very helpful for just making sure that their nervous system's functioning properly. Another thing is not letting them overdo tech time. That's what I call it. I've always called it tech time. So even when they're little, like I know that technology can be really helpful to us parents sometimes when we needed it. And of course it's fun for our kids, it's fun for us. But just kind of limiting that screen time with them because that can be very stimulating to the nervous system. Just holistic things, making sure, you know, they're sleeping well and their environment is good. That their home environment is very supportive. Making sure, you know, I have all boys and just like making sure that they know that emotions are okay to express and they can talk to their dad and I and just all of those things. I think as far as like non herbal just lifestyle things, that's kind of what we focused on. And then as far as like herbal support for the nervous system, my kids love, they've always drank tea, you know, from the time they were little. Even as teenagers now they still enjoy tea. So, you know, incorporating nervines into tea. Lindsey, like you said that Odin will take gummies. When they were little, we would just make chamomile gummies or you know, all these things. They would, they would take all of that. So, lots of nervines, whenever they need it, trying, like me trying to talk to them and help them to know how they're feeling, to like recognize the symptoms that they are experiencing and then offer them the kinds of herbs so that they will like, learn and remember. These are the herbal allies that I want to call upon when I'm feeling this way. So, nervines for sure. And as they've gotten older and I guess as I've learned more about adaptogens and the role that they play for overall nervous system support, trying to teach my older kids how to incorporate adaptogens into their life a little bit more now that they're bigger, they don't mind swallowing capsules. So, like I make adaptogen capsules and you know, I'll offer those to them or you know, we've bought like supplements geared toward kids or teens before that have adaptogens in them, mostly their gummies. And so, they'll still chew on those sorts of things. Yeah, but I mean, those are the kinds of things that we've done that I have found very helpful in my kids.

Yeah, it's nice to get a glimpse of what it's going to look like when my kids are older, potentially taking capsules and things like that. But with a two and a three, I keep calling him two, three and an eight year old. I feel like this nervous system thing is like a really big deal in our house, especially for my older kid. He and these big feelings that he has tend to come out most in the fall. And I think knowing that has been really helpful. Like, I think one of the biggest things you can do for your kid is just noticing when their nervous system gets dysregulated and kind of being prepared for that. Because once, once they're having a meltdown or feeling really anxious, there's not as much you can do, I think so kind of knowing in advance when it might happen, when it's apt to happen, and being prepared and maybe using herbs and like you said, Lindsey, these other levers beforehand can really go a long way for nervous system dysregulation. So, for my 8 year old, like I said, it always happens around the fall. And I think that's because, you know, there's decreased sunlight, school is starting up. So there's a lot of routines changing. And if I'm thinking energetically, the fall here in Vermont is very cold and dry and windy. And these are, he's kind of a cold, dry, windy kid. And so that aggravates his nervous system, I think. And so around end of August, beginning of September, I make up a formula for him. And it's usually a tincture, just because that's easy and he'll take it. And it's different every year, but usually has calming nervines in it. Some kind of uplifting herbs, some warming, some nourishing herbs. And so I start giving him that, you know, at the end of August usually. And it always helps. And, you know, after a month or two, he's kind of back to being more regulated. But I always keep a similar formula around for times when I know that might come back, like if there's some big event coming up in our near future, and we'll start using it again. And another thing that I have found really, really helpful, this is kind of my favorite thing that I do with the kids, and it's just been helpful in so many ways, is using herbs symbolically for different holidays usually, or just whenever I think we need it, we will make some kind of herb bundle. Like if it's in the summer and we have access to fresh plants, we'll make an actual herb bundle and maybe put it in a vase or dry it and hang it on the wall. Or if it's winter, we might make like a little pouch or a bath blend or something. Something where they have access to a bunch of herbs and they can choose what they want to sort of represent their wishes or the ways that they want to feel. And I never tell them what things, what I think things symbolize, right? And it's amazing what they come up with. It's so beautiful. I'm gonna cry. You know, if they're feeling sad, they might just go in the garden and pick a calendula and say, this is, you know, the herb of the sun, so it's gonna make me feel sunny inside. Or they might go to the Elecampane patch and say, wow, this plant is so big and strong, and I want to be big and strong like that. So I'm gonna pick a flower and have that kind of as my talisman, right? I remember one time when my 8 year old was maybe 4, he had this habit that he wanted to stop doing, and I wanted him to stop doing it. And it was very hard for him. And so it was unrelated. We were making one of these herb bundles because it was the time of the year we normally do it. And he picked a California poppy flower, and he said, this is going to be my will flower power. I mean, my will my willpower flower. And I didn't even know he knew the word willpower. Where did that come from? But it was amazing. So, he put it in his bundle, and it was hanging on the wall, and every time he was doing that thing he wanted to stop doing, he would look over at the bundle and say, "Willpower flower." And just stop like, well, that was easy. Thank you, California poppy. So that sort of thing and, you know, stories about the herbs and ways for them to connect with the herbs symbolically and see them as friends, to help them through hard times, has been huge in my family, and I'm really, really grateful to the plants for that. And as far as non-herbal levers, I mean, Meagan talked about the big ones, right? Making sure everybody's getting good sleep and getting all the nutrients they need, making sure their environment is stable and they're getting the support they need. I'd say the biggest one, I don't want to sound cliche, but is making sure that I am kind of emotionally stable myself, right? If I'm having a bad day, if I wake up and I'm just like grumpy, or if something's going on and I'm really stressed, it is, I can see it immediately in my kids, right? And that really, can I just say how bad that sucks, that I can't like have a bad day without it affecting the whole family. So to all you parents out there, like, I'm sorry for all of us. It really sucks. But it's so true. It's like the biggest thing that I've noticed makes a difference. If I can, you know, take my herbs and make sure I'm having self care time, seeing friends, doing the things I love to do, so I can kind of recover from the difficulty that is parenting sometimes, so I can be on level ground, then it's much more likely that I'm going to be able to handle their emotional dysregulation or it might not even happen in the first place. So that's, that's a really big one.

I love all that, Lisa. I feel like one of the things that I want to share with you as a parent of an older child is that there comes a time when you can communicate directly to them the feelings you are having and they can say, "Oh, okay, like maybe mama needs a little more space today." Or like, I'm not going to internalize that grumpiness because they see it for you just being an individual, right? And I'll also notate, like us parents taking the herbs ourselves, right? Like, the nervous system support is for us too. So really reaching for the cup of tea or the tincture blend, what have you, to support our nervous systems. Because I remember how stressful, like, my son is a very, like, it's like the most beautiful thing, but he is such a deep feeler and he is so sensitive, but it was a lot, right? And so, the emotional dysregulation happens for children. They're learning how to navigate the world and then how to regulate our own emotions alongside that. And herbs can be so helpful there. Yeah.

So I want to hear, you know, for us, we do evening tea a lot. And Odin has his tea blends. You know, we have a tea box where we actually have prepackaged tea blends from, you know, Traditional Medicinals or what have you. And like, he loves the Tulsi rose in the evening. So, he'll pull that out, and we'll have a tea and we'll sip that before. So, what are some simple evening routines that you all have that blends this kind of nervous system support with the, like, practical sleep hygiene for your family? So, as I am thinking about this, I'm trying to hone in on the simple part because my kids were terrible sleepers. Like, there was five years of bad sleep for me when they were infants and toddlers. And it got to, you know, it really drove me to, to establish a very structured routine, like eating routine from dinner to lights out or lights out plus plus. And so, I wouldn't call this necessarily simple, but it was what was really needed. And it does have some simple herbal elements in it. So, with that preface, I would say that, you know, when the kids were younger and, you know, up until they were teenagers, we always ate dinner at the table together. I mean, with young kids, like, that's just more convenient, right? And so, like, we did have that established dinner routine. And then afterwards there's time where they're playing or, you know, they're doing Legos or they're coloring or whatever, and I would use that as, like an opportunity to, you know, have a cup of tea. I mean, I know that this is a thread that we're like, harping on with, like, everything that we all do, but, you know, it is effective and enjoyable. And if your kiddo is not so much into teas, this could be a time for a glycerite. And so you would need to make that in advance. But, you know, ouldit be kind of a, the tea I would make would be a combination of nervine supporting herbs, but as we know, many of those also support digestion. So, it was kind of like a win win that would include things like, I mean, definitely chamomile, linden, spearmint, sometimes milky oats or oatstraw. I would throw that in there. Oh, lemon balm, always. That's so tasty. So, you know, some, you know, sometimes throwing in some rose or some dried violet flowers or whatever, you know, and if the kids would want to be involved, then they could help pick those. So, they're like, kind of, you know, sipping on that while they're also continuing to have fun and stuff. But that set the stage for, like, wind down time. And then there was bath time, like every night, which is, you know, may seem like overkill, but it was a really important, like, signal to their brains that this is wind down time. And you could certainly add, you know, bath herbs. And sometimes I would, you know, dump in some bath tea that just smells good and is fun for them too. And then, you know, in terms of kind of like, I mean, these are all kind of sleep hygiene things too. Like you're in your cozy pajamas and we're in bed and we're snuggled up and we're reading, you know, usually a big stack of books. And I will tell you that there were often flower fairies books or, you know, other, you know, kids herbal books in there too. But those were all, like, strong signals to them that, like, this is what we're doing now. Like, now we're at sleep time. So, like I said, that whole structured routine is not necessarily simple, although it was like, really nice family time. But there are simple herbal elements that you can pull into that. And, you know, kids thrive on structure. Most kids thrive on structure. And it was a big commitment on my part and my husband's part, but, you know, that's what ultimately worked the best for us.

Well, I will use the same exact preface as you, Jane, in that our bedtime routine is not at all simple because same, my kids were just starting to get to a place, now that my youngest is three, where we're sleeping a little better, but it's been years of awful sleep. So, we have developed this rather complicated bedtime routine. But there are some, like you said, Jane, some simple things in there that you could take apart from my complicated bedtime routine. Like Jane said, I think that routine really does help them understand, okay, this is wind down time. We're going to bed. What we do kind of combines that with, I think another big thing for kids is when they can't sleep is that they don't feel like they've had enough connection time with you in the day or enough connection time right before bed. And so, you know, if they don't feel like they've had that connection, they're going to be asking for 10 more cups of water or more stories or asking you what the meaning of life is right before bed. So making sure that we're doing this routine and that I'm really, really connecting with them. And sometimes that's hard when it's been a rough day. But having this routine is also helpful for me because I'm like, okay, I can do this. It's just like I can do this in my sleep now. This is what we do. And the herbal part of it is that I really like to make stuffed animals for my kids. Either knitting them or sewing them. Crafting is kind of my nervous system regulation hobby. And so I make them a lot of stuffed animals and I stuff lavender in them. And I think you can probably buy stuffed animals that have lavender in them. I think I've seen them before, but you know, just a little bit of lavender in the stuffing and the smell, I'm surprised at how long, you know, I've had some of these stuffed animals for what, eight years now, and they still smell quite strongly of lavender. So, when it's bedtime, they pick out one of those stuffed animals that have lavender in it, and I have to guess which stuffed animal they chose. So, they hold it behind their back, and I have to guess and when I guess, the stuffed animal then watches them get their pajamas on and makes comments like, "Oh, look at the butterflies on your jammies." Or, "Oh, look how you put your leg in one at a time. That's amazing." You know, like the stuffed animals say really cheesy things but my kids just love it. Even my 8 year old, I don't know how long it's going to last, but like he is still way into it, having his stuffed animal talk to him before bed. And sometimes that's when those questions will come out, like the meaning of life questions. Like they'll ask the stuffed animal instead of me, like, you know, well before bed and that kind of helps get it out before we're in the bed trying to go to sleep. So we do that and then, you know, we brush teeth and they have a story and a little massage all while they're holding this lavender stuffed animal. And you know, I don't know if the lavender actually helps. I like to think it does because we've done it for so long that I don't have anything to compare it to, right? But I like to think that having that aroma of lavender around them helps them get into that place of calm and quiet before bed.

These are really sweet routines, guys. Thank you for sharing. I want to make sure that we touch on a really important topic that we haven't really dove deep into yet. And this is cold and flu season. So what herbs are we using? What are we having on prep before those, like, first sniffles of the season begin? Well, first I'll say, Lisa, I'm gonna put money on the fact that your kids are taking their lavender stuffies to college. Oh, I hope so. Based on my experience just with stuffies. But, like, that is going to be, like, a core touch point for them. And you let me know. You've got a few years, though. So, for cold and flu season, I would say in terms of prep, primarily going back to foraging elderberry, that was part of the prep. And then, you know, making elderberry syrup or elixir or whatever, you know, I was wanting to use or make that year. But then also, you know, some of it was like the prep in terms of, like, I'm growing certain herbs in the garden. But I will tell you, a lot of my prep wasn't really, I mean, it wasn't really needed because the herbs that I was relying on could easily be sourced from, like, the produce aisle or the tea aisle at the grocery store. And so, it was like, oh, I could grab those on a weekly, you know, shopping trip because, you know, like, ginger and garlic followed by elderberry are kind of my primary go tos for cold and flu season. Ginger is such a good antimicrobial. I feel like it's totally a must have. You know, it's probably the first thing, you know, someone's like,I get w ind that there's like a potential viral infection or like somebody was exposed to somebody with infection. And I'm like, grating ginger and making ginger tea and, you know, the fresh ginger, like, either grated or thinly sliced and then honey and lemon if they want it. Or I really like to just juice ginger in my juicer and then store that juice in the fridge, you know, for a couple days as needed like I do it in really small batches. But then you can just add like a teaspoon or something of ginger to hot water and honey. And it's just that fresh ginger is so, so potent. Garlic is really easy to keep on hand. And you know, garlic is something I grow, so I have a lot of it, so I actually don't have to get it from the grocery store. But a lot of times I would just chop that up really fine and put it in a spoonful of honey. And that's what I'm referring to where I'd be like, "Just take it, it's good for you. And surprisingly, most of the time the kids would, you know, certainly as adults, I mean my husband will just pop a garlic clove and chomp it up, you know. Or the other trick is that like right at the end of a meal, like putting the fresh garlic like right at the end of, you know, heating the pasta sauce or whatever. So it's still really fresh, but it's combining into the food. And I like one of my favorite things to make for, well, still but for the kids was like some form of kind of like a homemade ramen slash miso slash herbal broth based soup. Because then you can load up things like cilantro and ginger and garlic and you know, the other ingredients that I would, you know, like the food type ingredients. But it's just another way to get some like fresh and some herbal ingredients in them. As I mentioned, I would always have elderberry syrup on hand. And I, you know that like that was just and still is like a primary go to for us and so many other families. I will be honest and say that my kids just didn't love its flavor and they didn't use this word. But I what they were expressing to me, it has like kind of a cloying, like earthy flavor. And I would try to play with different like cinnamon and you know, cloves and things like that. But Lindsey's the one who taught me and you know, this was just last year. So now we'll all enjoy it as adults. But adding peppermint to elderberry syrup just like lifts the flavor and is like, and I prefer it that way. So that has been a fun new discovery. For respiratory congestion, my first go tos were always thyme and mint just to open up the airways. They're both antimicrobial but have this clearing effect. They can be really helpful as teas. You mentioned the sinus steam with Odin with thyme. But I remember I'll never forget tucking my 5 year old in with a cup of thyme and honey tea. He was like, he was so congested in his nose and I don't know why, but I didn't like have, I didn't have a lot of other stuff around or something. I don't know. But I'm like, okay, thyme I can, you know, thyme I can definitely use that. And, and I was surprised that he really enjoyed the flavor too. I mean I did add honey, but it wasn't like tons of honey. So it wasn't that he was just associating it with like spaghetti sauce or something. And so, he was like, he enjoyed it. He was so cute sitting on the couch with it. And then he's like, "That really helped my nose." For lung congestion, I really like, I just love elecampane root and I always think of like tyme for the nose and elecampane for the lungs. It's a, you know, it's a stimulating expectorant that helps like when you have stuck mucus in the lungs, it helps get that moving. Licorice root can also be nice for that and it's, you know, it has a demulcency as well, but also like helps with expectoration. I'm an absolute broken record about demulcent herbs. Like when you're recovering from a cold or even like helping to move congestion, sometimes you just need some slipperiness to help like add moisture to whatever's stuck in there so it can move out. But you know, if you have a sore throat and it's like rough and scratchy, then a demulcent like, you know, I use a lot of marshmallow root but also like I love violet leaf and flower also because the violet flowers are so pretty in tea. But just I remember one time I had such a bad cough like for weeks. This is early on in my journey and like I had a cold and then I just had this lingering cough that would like make my blood vessels nearly burst in my eyes. And it was just because I had this post nasal drip that was constantly irritating my throat. And as soon as I got some demulcent herbs in there, it was like, oh well, that was all for nothing because it was so helpful. So, I'm always, you know, like as soon as someone has a scratchy throat or you know, or they're recovering and still coughing, I definitely bring in the, the demulcents. And actually my son now is, he's a runner and he's in college and they run in really dry air in indoor tracks. And also like partway through the season, he got some kind of viral infection and he was sick and kind of trying to recover from that. And like, he's like, "What do I take?" And I, you know, I ordered him Throat Coat from Traditional Medicinals. It's like I love their tea blends, but that one we definitely rely on a lot and I know he'll drink, and so that was really helpful to him. And then for fever, like a lot of times my kids didn't really want to take anything, you know, when they have a fever. So it was kind of temperature controls, you know, like a cool washcloth, just like my mom did, and like a cool bath. But sometimes I could get them, you know, to take some peppermint or catnip.

I'll jump in with just a few other things that I do for cold and flu prep that Jane didn't mention, because a lot of the stuff that I keep on hand are things that, you know, she's already talked about, like the broth blends, the elderberry syrup, respiratory virus things. Actually, real quick, a respiratory virus tea that I keep on hand is, I think it's on the Herbal Academy blog. It's the recipe that's on there, and I love it. Lisa, you might have actually put that recipe together, if I am not mistaken. But anyway, I can't remember, but that is like my favorite respiratory tea blend. If we had come down with some sort of respiratory virus. And like you mentioned sore throat pastilles. I love to add like marshmallow in those, but I actually like to put like cinnamon coating on them because cinnamon has a little bit of a demulcent property as well. And the kids love the flavor and so they'll take those. But I like to keep fire cider on hand. Jane, you were talking about like what's available to you in a grocery store and easy to come by. Fire cider is one of those things. And we tend to use that before we've had any sort of exposure just to kind of keep our immune systems supported before we come into contact with somebody who's, you know, had a virus or whatever. And when the kids were little, I would always do like a kid friendly fire cider that wasn't so spicy because they didn't like the spicy version. And they would take that a little bit better. But now that they're older, they don't mind like the spiciness as much. It's not their favorite, but they will take it because I have some kids that just really enjoy spicy more than others. And then of course, the ones that don't want it, we do have our elderberry syrup in case, like, if we do come in contact with somebody around us that has a virus and we've been exposed to it, then we'll kind of start our elderberry syrup. But some other things that I like to keep on hand. I did mention the sinus rinse blend before. My kids don't like that, but I use that, like, for myself and my husband. So we always have that on hand for cold and flu season. Any sort of like congestion salves with like, whether it's eucalyptus or peppermint, you know, lavender when the boys were little, just to rub, like chest or right under the nose just if they feel like they can't breathe well at night. That's always nice to have. I do like to have some herbal cough syrups on hand, and I do make different ones. And I do make mine shelf stable, so I add tinctures to them just so that I can like make them at the beginning of the season and then I have them. But I always like to have, you know, one for like a productive cough, one for just a very dry cough, and then one for those kinds of coughs where it's just irritated, like your throat's just irritated, like you mentioned, Jane, and you just cannot stop coughing. And you have some good spasmolytic herbs in there. So yeah, I like to also do immune broth blends, Jane, you mentioned that. But I will take like astragalus root and different mushrooms and things, and I'll put them in those little like drawstring reusable tea bags or muslin cloth bags and just have those in my spice cabinet. And then whenever I make like a stock of some sort or I'm making a soup, I'll just drop that whole little bag in so it's easy to find at the end and take it out. But that just lets all of those good immune herbs kind of steep and soak in that soup or that broth while I'm cooking it. So, yeah, those are just some extra little things that I do for cold and flu season prep.

So many good suggestions, everyone. I think that, yeah, there is such a huge potential in utilizing herbs that we find in our kitchen pantry for times of cold and flu. You know, I'm sure you all are also kind of a source of information for friends who kiddos get sick. So, I regularly throughout the fall winter months, I'm getting text messages or phone calls, it's like, oh, hey, this is going on. And recently, one of my friends, you know, she had already taken her kiddo to the doctor. They had gotten a diagnosis of walking pneumonia. Wasn't really much that they could do. And I was like, all right, here's what we're gonna do. Onion socks, like, regularly putting rounds of, like, the pungent, most pungent onion you can get. Like a white onion with, like, the onion smell, and it will definitely carry and cutting it round like you would put on a burger, right? And then you put them on the bottom of the feet, cover those with socks, and they can break up congestion so, well. You can even just put onion cut up next to a bedside of a sick kiddo, and that can help break up congestion. I mean, ginger, garlic, all the things that you guys have already mentioned. And I'll just also talk about briefly. I had a friend who had also taken her kiddo to the doctor, and they had an ear infection, but it was pretty mild. And they were like, "Well, we'll give you a script for antibiotics, but you can, like, watch and wait and see if you want to give them the antibiotics or just hold off." They weren't too concerned at that time. So, the friend reached out to me and I was like, you know, you can make your own garlic olive oil infusion on the stove top. And then they're actually my neighbor, so I had them come over and I showed them ground ivy, which is still in the lawn. And their three year old was like, totally up for just eating some ground ivy leaves, which is specific for inner ear congestion. And then they went home and they made the olive oil garlic infusion and put just a few drops in the ear. You know, one to two really is typically all you need. And they said after two rounds of that, that the ear infection was like, the pain was completely gone. And, you know, we also about talked about massaging behind the ear and tugging, and you can move your jaw anyways to clear out that congestion. And there's just so much you can do that is accessible in your, like, everyday life. Right? Like, you know, you should prepare and you can, but also like thinking in the spice cabinet as well.

All right, ladies, so we are going to do our final question as a lightning round. I'm going to read a sentence and you're gonna finish it. So, Lisa, let's start with you. The best tea blend for a tense tummy is. A really nice tasting blend that I love to have on hand for sort of emotional tension that's causing the belly to tense is 2 parts anise hyssop, 1 part chamomile, 1 part lemon balm, and 1 part peppermint. Tastes really nice. Kids love it. Sounds amazing. All right, Meagan, you're up. One herb you wish every family knew how to use is. Oh, goodness. One of my personal favorites, and I would

say is garlic because it's so readily available in stores. You can grow it, you can replant it. It's just like such a great herb. It does so many different things, whether it's like antimicrobial, helping as an expectorant if you have, like, lung congestion, spasmolytic in the digestive tract to kind of calm any spasms. It's great for your cardiovascular system. And there's a lot of ways to work it into food or work it into herbal preparations topically, internally. I just love, I just think garlic is so cheap, and I don't know, it's just such a good one. That would be my recommendation.

I love that answer, Meagan. All right, Jane, you're up. If you could suggest one herbal routine for listeners to implement, it would be.

Well, I'm going to cheat a little bit and pull from two of the things that I already talked about. And one would be the post-dinner tea, family tea routine. But I would sub in there the blend that I would use for that is the chamomile, orange peel, and anise seed because I totally love that. And then you're supporting the nervous system, you're supporting the digestive system. And it's super yummy.

That sounds wonderful, Jane. Ladies, this has been such a beautiful and informative conversation. I think it's so special that all of us here together, you know, are a big part of the course development team at the Herbal Academy. And, you know, we all are working behind the scenes to cultivate the beautiful courses that come out of this school. And for the listeners and the audience members out there, if you didn't know, we do have a kids herbal course, the Holistic Care for Kids Course, that you can definitely check out and find information on all the topics that we discussed today, and so much more.

Ladies, if you want to share anything else about the courses that you work on, maybe your favorite course or where they can find you working in the Herbal Academy, please feel free.

I'll start. I mean, I'm here every day. So, you know, an email away. Yeah, I spend, like I said, a lot of my time in course development and I don't know. It's hard to pick a favorite course. It really is. So, I'm not going to because I really love seeing like all these course babies that we've created over the past 12, 14, 15 years. And I love that they build upon each other, but then there's little offshoots that dig in deeper and there's just like a lot of entry points. And I've learned a lot through this process as well. And so, they're like, there are babies, but also kind of a record of, you know, like our journeys as well as Herbal Academy. So, you can find those on our courses page. And then for like shorter, you know, one of my other babies is The Herbarium and there's so much great content, like bite-sized things from monographs to master classes to the intensives. And like actually, I mean bite-sized but also pretty in-depth. So, there's a lot to learn from that. So, you can imagine me tinkering around in both of those spaces and, you know, when I'm here on a day-to-day basis, as well as other things.

Yeah, I think for me it's hard to like choose a few favorite courses. But I, when I'm thinking about like entry points into herbalism, obviously the Introductory Herbal Course is one of those, you know, how I came into herbalism was when I had kids. So that's one of my, you know, the reasons why I love the kids course because I think that's applicable to so many people who are interested in learning to use herbs in their homes. I think that the, we have a mini course, the Tea Blending Mini Course, that's like an easy way to start using herbs with tea blends. So I think that that's like a fun one for people who are just kind of curious and want to get into herbalism a little bit. But I just, I love so many of our courses. They're so fun to put together. They are, they're all very well-rounded. I learn so much, like, I learned so much just having to do my own work in the portions of the courses that I'm working on, but also from everybody else, whether it's like our internal team or we reach out to like external herbalists and bring them in to help out. Like, I just, I just love what we're doing here at Herbal Academy and I'm super grateful to be a part of our team and yeah, just so good. Yay.

Well, Jane, I think it's so appropriate that you call all these courses our babies, right? Because it really, it's so special to kind of give birth to them. Right? It's quite the journey to put them together and to offer them out into the world. And it feels so special to be able to do that. I do have a favorite, though. I love, love, love the mushroom course. It was so fun to put together. I am total mushroom nerd, and I think if any of you have kids that are interested in foraging, mushrooms can be a little bit scary, right? Because there are poisonous ones out there. So, I love that this course not only talks about how to use mushrooms in herbalism, but also guides you through safe foraging practices and helps you identify the mushrooms in your own bioregion. That's my favorite.

We'll make sure to get links to all of those courses in the chat. And ladies, this has been such a joy. I feel like you all have shared so much positive and potent information for our audience members. Thanks so much for being here today.

Thanks, Lindsey.