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Hi, my name is Yasmine Tarahi, and this is Gateways to Awakening, where we host one-on-one conversations with leading experts in wellness, well-being, and spirituality. On today's episode, we'll be speaking with Dr. Bill Bengston, a professor of sociology with specialization in research methods and statistics. In addition, he's the president of the Society for Scientific Exploration, an international group of about 800 scientists who conduct rigorous investigations into scientific anomalies.
Dr. Bengston has publications in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine, and Explore. He's also on the editorial board of the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. Bill has written a memoir with Sylvia Frazier about his healing experiences and research entitled "The Energy Cure: Unraveling the Mystery of Hands-On Healing," which I'm very excited to talk about.
So, welcome to the show, Bill.
Thanks a lot for the invitation.
So, Bill, just to kick it off, what has been your experience and observation of hands-on healing?
Well, my experience goes back about 30 years. It was when I ran into a guy who turned into a healer. Quite spontaneously, he put his hands on my back, and my back pain went away and has never returned. I was thrust into this world unexpectedly, looking at healing. I was left with kind of a choice after skeptical me had his bad back fixed. I could either pretend it didn't happen or I could try to figure out what in heaven's name happened to me. For better or worse, I decided to go down the route of figuring out what in heaven's name happened to me.
So, I dragged this guy around from lab to lab. I had him put his hands on people here and there and see what would happen. I watched a few hundred healings and then said, "You know, there's something seriously interesting going on here." I decided, for better or worse, to take it into the lab and do healing studies under very controlled conditions.
One of the problems with doing clinical work is that you never know what did what. If someone comes in with a condition and they're treated, and they leave and healing starts, you don't know whether healing would have started anyway. You don't know whether it was time that did it, or whether it was what you ate or what you didn't eat. There's no way to really unravel it, and my brain doesn't work that way very well, so I had to try to unravel this wonderful mystery.
Can you say a little bit more about hands-on healing? Is there a specific amount of time that you put your hands on the person? How does it actually work?
Well, I don't see much hands-on healing going on anymore, to be honest with you. Most of the healing is done from a distance by the practitioners that I know of. I don't know of anyone who requires that hands actually be on someone.
If you're asking about hands-on healing, just picture a person lying down on a massage table or sitting up in a chair, and someone comes along and puts their hands on their shoulders or for the afflicted area or something along those lines. It would look nothing more exotic than someone putting their hands on somebody else.
How long it would take? There's no way to answer that question. In the more than a thousand healings I've watched or taken part in or done myself, the variation is extreme. This is one of the mysteries of healing. In the aggregate, you can make some predictions, but in any individual case, there's no way to know how long that case will take.
I've seen, for example, end-stage cancer fixed in five minutes. That's very rare. I've seen end-stage cancer that took months of daily treatment, multiple hours a day. There's nothing I can think of or that I've been able to figure out why one person would take five minutes and one person would take at least a hundred treatments.
Fascinating. Okay, and what is this concept called cycling?
Cycling is the method that I worked out with this initial healer. He and I worked on trying to figure out a way to replicate what he could do naturally. This guy who was a healer just kind of turned into a healer and didn't have a teacher. My question, or among my questions, was can anybody do this? If so, what do they need to do to be able to replicate what he could do?
Cycling is the method that evolved over the course of years, and it's actually still evolving. It's my very annoying method. It takes a great deal of practice. Out there in the healing world, there are people who claim they can teach you how to do anything instantly. Well, you know, they're better than me. Mine is a pain.
You tend to send me hate emails, you know, hating me, saying, "How did I get into this madness? You're an idiot. Get away from me. You've ruined my life." But when they come out the other side after their life has been pre-ruined, they go out and do pretty interesting things.
My focus has been taking the methods and bringing them into the lab for controlled conditions. I leave it to other people. After I've done hundreds and hundreds of people, I got it out of my system.
The cycling technique, to finally answer your question, is a very rapid imaging technique. It's mechanical, but it's extremely practice-oriented. If I were teaching how to play tennis and you said, "Teach me how to do a backhand," you wouldn't be ready for Wimbledon after a weekend. Same idea here. You're going to practice before you get a backhand in. You're going to practice before I turn you loose on somebody who's otherwise going to die.
Wow. So, cycling, like you said, is rapid imaging. I briefly read a little bit on your website. Can you give me an example? Let's say there's an illness in the body, and I want to eradicate that or remove it. We can just pick any area of the body.
One of the interesting things about this is that the cycling technique has nothing to do with healing. It's simply a very rapid imaging technique in which some of the images may have something to do with healing, but you could use the cycling technique just to go through life and make stuff happen to you. Some people call this manifesting. I just think stuff happens to you.
You're going to get the things on the list, and some of the things on the list could be about health, but there are many people out there who don't have anything about health at all.
So, what is the technique? You have to constantly have these images going through your head of, let's say, the thing that you want to manifest. For example, maybe like a new place on the beach.
A good place, a new place on the beach is a good image. If you want a new place on the beach, that's very specific, and you're getting at the heart of what cycling is. You'll know whether you get it or not. You either have the new place on the beach or you don't.
The things on the list are things you don't now have. They're a future address. So, I don't now have the place on the beach. I'm making this up. But I want one. I don't now have a fancy car, but I want one. I want it to be blue, and I want it to be this make and this model.
So, it's very concrete, very visualizable. You'd know whether you have it or not. You can't have anything on the list that's vague and doesn't have any content. An example of that would be, "I want to be happy." What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything. You don't wake up tomorrow and go, "Oh, now I'm happy," and forever after I'll be happy.
If I get the beach house, I have the beach house. I don't have the happiness. There's no parallel. So, people, when you ask them to make a list of things that they want and don't now have, they tend to be vague in general because they don't want to make a decision about what they really want, or they may not really know.
So, you default to, "I want to be happy." Again, no content. "I want to be healthy." Health has no content either. What does it mean to be healthy? I know a doctor, a friend of mine, who says a healthy person is someone insufficiently examined. I love that so much. That's hysterical.
So, people walk around bringing their hands going, "I want to be on vacation in Tuscany." Yeah, beautiful. We can get you to Tuscany, but I can't get you to happy, and I can't get you to healthy. If I can't walk, I can get you to walk, but that's not claiming health. Health doesn't have any content. Everybody's got crap in them someplace or other.
Right.
So, I have a couple of follow-up questions about this technique. Do you visualize in color? Do you visualize from the first person or the third person? Do you watch yourself having those things, or do you perceive yourself in the time and space?
Whatever floats your boat. If that's comfortable, but when you actually practice the cycling, you don't daydream about this stuff, and you don't spend a lot of time imaging anything. You're putting the imagery, you're burning it into your brain, you're getting it out of your conscious mind, and you're letting this thing loop in the background very, very, very fast.
If I said a hundred images a second, that would be slow.
Wow. How do you teach people to do that many images in, you know, given the constraints of time?
Well, I yell at them a lot and go faster. When that doesn't work, I hit them. If that doesn't work, I say, "Get away from me."
It really involves a boatload of practice. Again, it's like learning a backhand. You're going to swing and miss a bunch of times. You're going to hit it over the fence a bunch of times. You're going to hit it into the net a bunch of times, and sooner or later, something clicks.
The way that people learn this stuff, again, I don't have any hidden secrets up my sleeve. You can take the workshop. This isn't a sales technique. You can take a workshop, and I get workshop dates on my website. You can also just get a nice simple CD set. I don't know if it's actually sold as CDs anymore, but a CD set called "Hands-On Healing," and it's the training course. You can just pick it up, listen to the CDs, practice your brains out, send me hate mail, and then go out there and do your thing.
Amazing. Is there an approximate number of times throughout the day that you recommend people do it, or is it just kind of based on the entire time that we've been talking?
I've been doing it.
What are you cycling?
I've got a list of 24 things. That's my current number. We shoot for at least 20 things. All of them are selfish. The record holder has 94 things on his list, and I'm really impressed with that because that's a selfish bastard.
My techniques are about selfishness.
So, do all the things that you've cycled manifest, or do some manifest?
It's a pretty interesting phenomenon. Your initial list will never end up being your second or third list because one of the things that happens is that you learn in the process of cycling what you really want.
It turns out, and this just goes from a clinical practice perspective, you think you want stuff. You know, "I need the fancy car." But it turns out you don't really care. The script that most people work off doesn't come from them; it comes from some sort of a social script.
Because you're a loser if you don't have a fancy car. You're a loser if you can't play tennis. You're a loser if you haven't been to Tuscany. I don't want to talk to you. So, you're supposed to want this, you're supposed to want that.
What happens in cycling is you find out if you really want the stuff. You know, "I've always wanted this," and you fill in the blank. Then you start to cycle, and you can't get the cycling to go. It turns out if you take that thing off your list, your cycling flies.
What therapists use some of the cycling technique for is not just to manifest stuff, but rather for their clients, their patients, to learn what they really want. We evolve over the course of practicing cycling from what you're supposed to want versus what you really want, and those things you really want, yeah, you get them.
Fascinating. Is it just with people as well as with physical objects? Is it both?
Oh sure. One of our strong ethical guidelines, though, is you can't do something for someone else without their permission, and that's an inviolable rule.
So, you see somebody in a wheelchair and you say, "Would you like me to cycle you walking?" or you don't ask. No, I'm sorry. You can ask them, "Do you want me to cycle you walking, or would you mind if I sent you good thoughts?" However you want to phrase it. If they say, "Get away from me," you have no right to fix them.
You could fix them, but you don't have a right to do it.
What are some things that people have manifested through this process?
Virtually everything that I've said so far. I get postcards from Tuscany. I get pictures of them walking when they had been five years in a wheelchair. I get, you know, so the question should be rephrased: What are the things that people want?
The answer is it's extremely varied. You don't pick off the list. You really have to dig deep into yourself and come up with the 20 recognizable future things that you want to have. Twenty is not the maximum. Again, the record's 94. I'm still looking for someone to break into triple figures.
But it takes a while. It takes a bit of practice to learn about you. My experience, and it sounds facetious, but my experience is that I don't find people know a lot about themselves.
So true.
They know a lot about what they're supposed to want, but they don't really know themselves, and they're not empowered to be themselves. Cycling gets you to be yourself, and you get the stuff on the list.
We have a joke: Be careful what you put down.
Wow, that's fascinating.
So, I have an example for you. I've written this book, and I really want to manifest a publisher, but I haven't really spent a lot of time on that. If I were to cycle that, you're saying that I would imagine myself with, let's say, a book on the New York Times bestseller list at a bunch of bookstores.
What would be kind of the visual that would be?
What's most comfortable for you? So, you're not trying to find a publisher. You're trying to have a published book, is the way you described it.
You described to me two different things. You said, "I want to get a publisher," and then, "I want to be on the New York Times bestseller list." Those are totally different. If you want a publisher, then that's what you put down. If you want to be on the New York Times bestseller list, that's what you put down.
In all cases, we never embalm ourselves with when something happens or how it happens. We only deal with what's so. If the "what" is getting a publisher, you're done when you get the publisher. I don't care if anybody ever buys the book.
If you're a New York Times bestseller, it's a very different metric.
Got it.
So, you're always kicking the can down the road. If I'm in a wheelchair and I can't walk and I'd like to be able to walk, I don't try to figure out how to walk. I simply have an image of the place or me walking.
Now, where would the image be? I don't know. Tuscany? Where would the image be? Walking up to the flight of stairs in your house? I don't care what it is. There's no right answer. It depends on what resonates with you.
It's interesting because the end result is like ending up on the bookshelves, but the journey is obviously getting a publisher first. In some cases, you don't need a publisher. I've written books without a publisher.
So, I'm curious: Is it more believable to go straight to the end result, or do you suggest that people, especially if they're new to the process, manifest things on the journey, like getting a publisher first?
No, no. Get all the way down. Kick it down the road. One of the things that cycling does is it gets you past your— not you, but people's obsessive focus on when and how.
So, how do you get a publisher? Then I start to dissect the problem, and then I do this, and then I look up the publisher, and then I look for the spend, and I, you know, and your friends to yourself in terms of problem-solving.
Well, that's fine. Do that during the course of the day. It has nothing to do with cycling. In cycling, the issue is when am I done? I'm done when it makes the New York Times bestseller list, or it has to be number one on the bestseller list. If it only makes it to two, then I didn't do it yet.
You're trying to kick the can down the road, and in the images of cycling, they have nothing to do with when something happens or how it happens.
So fascinating. I'm actually very fascinated in the world of manifestation, and I just haven't heard about this particular modality of cycling.
It's actually pretty naughty. Go first. Go for a different one. The other stuff's easy to do. Mine's a pain.
So, you offer live workshops and also workshops on Zoom?
Yeah, I do a few. We're trying to get down to maybe four a year.
Nice.
Okay, amazing. So, what about healing surrogates and distant healing? I know that you mentioned that earlier. How does that work? Maybe you can walk us through an example of someone that healed through that process.
Somebody that I met had been a healer for about 25 years. She had been certified in acupuncture and sound therapy. You name it, she had the certificate, but she was never able to successfully do cancer, and this was frustrating her. I mean, her patients were dying.
So, she took my workshop, learned how to cycle, and became obsessive about it. I mean, really, this is over the top. She totally immersed herself in it. She went home, and in a very short order, she cured eight patients in a row of end-stage cancer—just zip, zip, zip. Now she just does it routinely.
She reports she's a healer, a card-carrying healer. I'm not, but she's the card-carrying healer. What I get from healers is something drastically changes in their healing when they cycle.
Now, my job, since I'm not a healer, is I try to figure out what in heaven's name is going on. I can look at what happens to a brain, what happens to a—you know, and I use EEGs and functional MRIs and blah, blah, trying to figure out what's going on.
But the healers essentially all report something fundamentally changes. Whereas I couldn't do this, now I can do that. What the relationship is between cycling and healing, I don't have a clue because cycling has nothing to do with healing.
Fascinating. Just to go back to cycling really quick, do people usually—are they able to do the cycling process after a weekend with you, or does it just take months and months of practice? I mean, you mentioned that everyone's different, but just kind of on average.
Yeah, if you really throw yourself into it, and you know you're trying after a weekend. Usually, we do a weekend and then a week off and then another day, you know, so we come back after you've practiced and sent me hate mail and everything else.
I've read it. Usually, I don't respond to the email, or I just write back, "I hate you too," and everybody's happy.
But when you—you don't feel like you've mastered anything. There's no sense of arrival. Again, let me go back to a tennis analogy. When did you arrive as a tennis player? After a weekend? Or no matter where you are, could you, with practice, get better?
I think here, wherever you are, with practice, you can get better. I've had a case study: a woman took the workshop, felt totally inadequate, wrote my wife, Margaret, and said, "I feel totally inadequate."
She writes back and goes, "I hope so. We're not the most sympathetic group." So, I hope you feel inadequate, but you know, you're a loser. You just started. Lighten up.
Then she said, "Well, can I try this?" You know, with trepidation in her voice. She starts talking to her, and like she needs a therapist, and can I try it? I heard about this dog with a huge cancer growth on its side.
My wife said, "Well, go treat it. See what happens." But I don't believe I can do this. She'll say, "I don't believe you can do it either. Don't worry. This has nothing to do with belief."
So, she tries cycling. She's flopping on the floor. She doesn't believe a single thing about any of this, and the documentation of how this dog got cured is astonishing. It freaked the vets out because they were trying to put the dog down, and the tumor, like my experimental mice, just opened up, and they implode, and the dog's cured.
Wow, I'm so excited to try this. I feel like I already am like the queen of manifestation, so this might just accelerate everything. I have a feeling it will.
Well, just don't believe it.
Yeah, don't believe it because this is not a belief-based anything. I'm reasonably confident—I'm probably wrong, but I'm reasonably confident that belief does no particular good. I think a non-believing skeptic is the ideal healer.
Fascinating.
I think a non-believing skeptic is the ideal healer.
So, why do you say that?
There aren't very many skeptics out there.
I can share some with you.
Yeah, I mean, I'd be surprised because it's hard. I don't find more than a handful of skeptics that I've ever run into. I know I've gone and spoken at skeptic societies where they like to make fun of healing and all that stuff, and they invite me so they can mock me. I go, "Yeah, fine. Give me your best shot."
I go in there with data. I've got 50 years of reasonably good data, and I show some of the data. Before I do that, though, I say, "I'm probably the only skeptic in the room." They all get old, frowny-faced, and their lips pursed, and their arms folded.
They know where the such-and-such skeptics are. They say, "You're not a bunch of skeptics. You're a bunch of mindless believers. You believe everything I haven't yet said is wrong." That's a believer.
Believers come in various flavors. You have believers that think everything's true, and you have believers that think everything is false. Believers have a tendency to want to reinforce their beliefs. They're not interested in open inquiry.
Oh, got it.
So, it's more just like an openness. Neutrality is open because they don't have any illusion that they understand the way the world works, and so they don't spend all their time defending their beliefs.
The people who believe all this crazy stuff is true, they're scary. Why do they believe it?
There are people who believe everything is wrong. The believers get together, throw rocks at each other, and call each other idiots. It's absolutely of no use. A skeptic comes along and says, "Man, I'm not going to default to belief, but let me take a look."
Right, right.
That's powerful. I mean, that's also why the show is called Gateways to Awakening, because it's really just an invitation for people to become more aware and then investigate different modalities further. If it resonates and if it doesn't, I have no conclusion or opinion on that. Just an invitation.
Yeah, so if I ever have someone who says, "I believe everything you say," I said, "Well, get away from me," because I'm sure everything I say is not accurate. It's my best shot, and it'll evolve over time.
Unless you've already set in your ideas, well, you're a believer, and I don't want to play with you.
Right, right.
Yeah, powerful.
So, Bill, I want to actually talk about some of the experiments that you did because I think that part has fascinated me. Can you talk about some of the work that you did with the mice and how they reacted to some of the healing modalities that you shared?
Sure. After watching a few hundred people get fixed of a variety of things, including myself, I realized that I'm never going to be able to unravel the clinical applications. I just don't know how to do it. I don't know anybody who does know how to do it.
You're trying whatever you're trying, and people are a little more complex than experimental conditions. They take their meds, they don't take their meds, they do this, they do that. They believe on Monday, they don't believe on Tuesday. They eat grapefruit Wednesday, they don't on Thursday, and on and on. In the middle of that, they get better.
Well, what did it? The answer is, I don't know. After watching a few hundred, maybe more than a few hundred healings, I started to look at the patterns. There are some gross patterns that occur.
For example, things that you don't want, you want to take away, respond very, very well. Things where the healer is trying to stimulate something that you're missing, we're not as good.
So, just as an example, if you have Parkinson's, your brain is not putting out something that you need to put out, so you're missing something. The healer comes along, does hocus pocus, and all that stuff—not so good.
At least in my method, we don't have a great track record for Parkinson's. Same thing with type 1 diabetes. We don't have a good track record. In type 1 diabetes, you're not producing something you need to produce.
In the case of diabetes, you can compensate for that easier than you can in Parkinson's, but either way, the body's missing something. If you contrast that with the body having some crap that they're trying to get rid of, it turns out that if you have malignant growths, we get rid of them.
The more aggressive the malignancy, the easier it is to get rid of. A kind of mild, slow-growing malignancy goes away slowly. A really aggressive thing that's coming in like a freight train leaves like a freight train.
The energy is in the system itself, not the healer. A biological condition that has a lot of energy in it tends to be easier to face, and we tend to be better at taking away stuff.
So, Alzheimer's really responds, and I mean really responds. I'd love to do a clinical trial on Alzheimer's. Now, Alzheimer's is different than just age-related dementia. In Alzheimer's, you've got crap on the brain. We can get rid of the crap.
We're good with malignancies. We're not good with benign growths. Here's a joke, but it's real: We can't fix warts.
Yes!
Anyone in the healing world says anybody can pick—any loser can fix a wart. I go, "Yeah, but not this loser." The interesting thing is the people who learn how to cycle also lose the ability to do warts.
I'm actually thinking about something you just said, which is like energy's in the system itself, not in the healer.
No.
Which is so powerful because I think, at least in my own life, I can anecdotally say I would imagine the opposite to be true. Not that particular comment, but that the more intense the energy, the harder the movement and the transmission or the transmutation.
You're saying actually the bigger the energy, the sort of easier it is to get rid of that bigger energy all at once.
Yeah, I suppose. Healing is an energy. I have a book called "The Energy Cure." When the publisher said, "We want to call the book 'The Energy Cure,'" I said, "I don't think there's any energy." They said, "Well, thanks for your input," and said, "We're calling it 'The Energy Cure' anyway."
There's still energy in it. You can negate the idea of energy really quickly. If I have a cage of cancerous mice that I'm treating, and they're sitting on the table in front of me, I get a particular outcome, including the curing of that cancer.
If I take cancerous mice and I put them 2,000 miles away, there's no difference in effect. Now, energy diminishes with distance. If this doesn't diminish with distance, it's not energy.
So, if it diminishes with distance, then the remote healing piece is limited by this kind of physical distance from one person to the other, and it's not limited at all. It doesn't make any difference where you are.
So, if I'm treating cage one and right next to it is a control group of mice in cage two, and only the mice in cage one are cured, I mean, come on. That's not energy. It's not a field. It's not a sphere of influence. It's nothing like that.
It's something outside the bounds of the concepts we normally categorize the world with.
Wow. This is powerful. I think for a lot of people who feel very stuck in their circumstances, this feels like there's a lot more possibility with your approach.
I encourage folks who are listening to go check out Bill's website, which we'll include at the end of the show.
So, Bill, I know that we're coming to time, but I wanted to ask a few more questions. How has the pandemic shifted your thinking, and how has it shifted your practice, if at all?
Well, I don't have a healing practice. I just have a research agenda. I can tell you some stuff on the pandemic you'd be happy to hear. I'm trying to figure out ways to make healing conventional.
In order to make it conventional, I think it needs two characteristics or two attributes that people don't think of. One is that healing needs to be storable, like a battery. I'm taking electrical charge and putting it into a thing, and I leave it there. I can stick it in my pocket and bring it out later and then use it.
The second thing it needs to be is scalable. I need to be able to mass-market the batteries. I've been working for a few years on different methods of storing healing. I've stored it in various things. I've stored it in cotton. I've stored it in water.
I've also done a bunch of research to see if I can even record healing because a recording would be maximally scalable. If I have a healing recording that you can hear, I could upload it into the cloud and have it globally scaled.
If I could upload a cancer cure that if you listen to this, it gets rid of it, well, that's a good thing. You don't ask, "Do you believe it or not?" The only issue is, do you want to have it or do you want to get rid of it? If you want to get rid of it, listen to this. If you don't want to get rid of it, don't listen to it.
I'm not trying to save the world.
I love your sense of humor on this topic. It's so fun and refreshing.
Yeah, so I've been able now to record, and I have a number of publications in conventional biology journals showing the effect on cancer cells and cancerous mice and all that kind of stuff.
I've done a bunch of experiments with water, and now I can— it turns out I have a way to treat water and have that water reproduce almost limitlessly.
I'm eventually going to get to your question. You probably forgot what it is, but I just finished an experiment, and it really was an experiment—double-blind, placebo-controlled—on COVID because we can fix COVID really simply.
I mean, COVID is not like a difficult problem to solve. COVID is a social contagion phenomenon, but biologically, I mean, it's a virus. Give me a break.
We just did a study on 300 people entering a COVID hospital. You know, they're serious. These aren't, "I have sniffles for today." These are folks about to be hospitalized for at least a week.
We took them, and we gave some of these my hocus pocus water. This was blinded, administered by physicians. Nobody knew what they were giving the patients, but the hocus pocus water, and some people got water that had no hocus pocus in it.
Our results are astounding. I mean, they're seriously astounding.
Can you share what the results are, or is it too early?
I just finished a 41-page technical output that I finished writing yesterday that would put anybody into a coma if they read it. But it gives you an idea.
One of the things we measured was a bunch of symptoms, you know, what happened, your cough, this, that, and we had a general expression of how healthy do you feel on a scale of one to ten. One means you're about to die, and ten means I've never been better, you know, that kind of thing.
When they come into the test, the people averaged about a 1.8 on a scale of one to ten. That's how they felt generally. After a week in the hospital, the people who didn't get the hocus pocus water went up a tenth of a point, so like 1.8 to 1.9.
The people who had the hocus pocus water were over nine.
Wow!
I mean, we're not talking subtle changes here. We're talking over-the-top, in-your-face. We've given this water informally to certainly over 300 people, and people are just simply astonished at what happens.
It's just a virus, for crying out loud.
So, how do you program? You mentioned that healing needs to be storable and that it needs to be scalable. How do you store the healing in, you know, the water, for example? What is there, like, a methodology, or is it just...?
Oh no, it's a pretty elaborate methodology that I haven't yet published, but it involves treating like you would treat. I've done experiments with water, certainly.
For example, at the University of Connecticut Medical School, I treated water, and it was fed to mice I never met, and those mice were cured. Well, you know, that's interesting. It shows storability, but the question is how do you mass-produce the water?
I've worked a few years on that, and I have actually a device that mass produces the treated water. The treated water is put into bottles, and the patients just take them sublingually.
I've done three clinical trials of 100 people each—two in the States and one in Europe—and given it to people with all sorts of stuff. They've got depression, they're bipolar, they have cancer, they have diabetes, they have, they have, they have.
The craziest thing about this is 98% report getting better. I mean, that's nuts. It's difficult for a skeptic to say that out loud, but not in all three studies.
Ninety-eight percent reported getting better, and the effects of the treated water or the hocus pocus water tend to be stronger than hands-on.
I think I've improved healing. We've got, for example, a Parkinson's guy who's in a wheelchair for five years. He's thrown out his wheelchair and his walker, and he's walking a mile.
So, Bill, where can we buy this device? Just curious.
Well, you could—I'm not sure you can buy it now in the Netherlands. It's not the device. You can actually just get the water. We're trying to set up something in the States, but I don't know if there's anything on my website.
I'm told I have a website. I don't know what's on it. I think it's bangsproducts.com. I don't know if you can get the website. You could email or contact on the website and say, "How do I get the water?"
I know you can buy it in a chip from the Netherlands. We're trying to just start up a company, you know, let people get it at affordable rates, you know, take the water, see what happens.
Amazing.
So, just to wrap up, what is your main takeaway? What do you want to tell our audience about their vitality, their health, their well-being? What sort of like your mission and purpose, and what would you tell our audience to think about, you know, going forward?
If you're in need, and you're in serious need, it's hard not to think about your need. But if you can step outside the system for a little bit, take away the craziness surrounding healing. Healing is commonplace. It's all over the place. You heal all the time with or without a healer.
A healer gives information and helps your body figure out how to do it for itself, but the healing comes from you. It ought not to be conflated with, you know, I need to be a believer, or I need to be spiritual.
I liken it to walking across the street. Nobody in your audience knows how to walk across the street, I guarantee you, because nobody knows how to do it. It's too complex a problem. You can do it, but you don't know how.
The sequence of neurons firing and muscles contracting and all that stuff burns out a supercomputer, which is why robots look so stupid when they walk, but a two-year-old looks fluid. Walking is a miracle, but it's not, you know, don't make it past. It's a beautiful thing. So is healing. Don't worry about it. Relax.
Okay, all right. Well, on that note, where can people find you? Where can they participate in maybe a study or even work with someone that does hands-on healing or cycling? Of course, your workshops are all on your website, right?
Yeah, if you go to bengstonresearch.com, I'm told there's a bunch of stuff on there. I'm not big, so again, I have one. I don't know what's there. I think there's maybe 25 or so geeky papers that nobody's going to want to read.
The stuff in English, read around the papers, but if you want to read some technical background, have a ball. I usually write the kind of stuff nobody reads.
Oh, well, thank you so much for doing this work and this research. The last name is just for people listening who might be driving. The last name is B-E-N-G-S-T-O-N, William Bengston.
Just for people listening, and we'll also include the website in the show notes so that you guys can check them out and also check out the book, right?
So, thank you so much for your time, Bill. This was so delightful. I have so many more questions, but I know that we're at time, and I look forward to taking your workshop. I'm sure that there's going to be a lot of interest in your course after this conversation and a lot of hatred, you know, as you take the thing. You convert it to just absolute hatred.
I love it.
Amazing. So, for our audience, thanks for joining in and listening to this episode. We learned about how to unravel the mystery of hands-on healing and cycling with Bill Bengston. You can tune in to Gateways to Awakening, where we host one-on-one conversations with leading experts in wellness, well-being, and spirituality.
Thanks again!