Transcription
But with a lot of these guys, what was interesting about Nick Land is that, uh, there's a they keep getting the same ideas. These guys take drugs, whether it's Elon, Nick Land, or even in the '70s the scientist John C. Lilly. John C. Lilly was an eminent scientist, brilliant dude. He started doing, uh, ketamine, the same, the same drug, you know, everyone does in Silicon Valley. And they, when they do this drug, and even if you're an atheist materialist, this is still interesting. They all get the same idea, which is that the machines are, you know, coming like Skynet in Terminator. They're coming together. They're, um, they're evolving to eventually take over, and that we are, uh, hanging ourselves with the rope we're currently building by building this.
But this goes back. Nick Land was interesting, but he became less interesting to me when I realized that other scientists in the '70s, uh, John C. Lilly, the movie, uh, *Altered States* from 1980, his horror movie. This is about, you know, you know, he would have these visions about the machines. He called them the solid state entities. Um, he, he would have this in the '70s, Tucker, in this, in this tank, um, the isolation tank. He'd go in. And you probably haven't seen it, but the new *Mission Impossible* movie, um, Tom Cruise, you know, he fights this AI and he goes in the isolation tank and he has these visions of it. One of the biggest movies of this past summer. And, uh, that, that plot point comes from John C. Lilly and the visions he would get of AI apocalypse in the isolation tank back in the '70s. So I bring this up to say Nick Land is the most foremost, uh, proponent of it that has a public name, even though he's not that famous right now, but this goes back a long time, uh, you know, at least back to the '70s.
So are these, so people take ketamine and they all have the same vision?
>> I mean, or species of the same.
>> Enough of them do to make it very strange and alarming that, I mean, I mean, that, that's the thing. That one of the main influences on both the show I was building, these guys, um, Brian Gleason, William S. Burroughs' creative partner. He would say the thing is about getting high and about doing psychedelics is that, you know, you can spot people, you know, eventually, who are on the same drug and you're both getting the same ideas. Some, some drugs, he said, you know, increases telepathy, you know, people are, it puts them on the same, same wavelength.
So with a lot of these guys, it's a little weird that different people from different places, different countries, different life experiences would take a drug and have the same kind of vision.
>> It's totally weird. And, and for anyone who, who's tuned in, that can't be organic.
>> No, no. And, and, and, but that is weird beyond what anyone's individual personal beliefs are.
>> Exactly.
>> That, that's, yeah. So if anyone tunes in and they're like, where did Tucker find this guy that looks like Greg Olsen talking about, uh, insane AI stuff. Uh, I'm, if they're an atheist, they don't believe any of this. Like you're saying, the fact that people are taking these drugs, and they're very powerful, and they work in tech, and they are getting the same ideas, the same fears. They think in some cases they're talking to the same entities. There are books now about, if you take DMT, if you encounter this, this machine elf, be wary of this. You know, they're encountering the same stuff. That's, that's an interesting phenomenon just biologically, regardless of what people.
>> Like ancient sacred art has the same images created on different continents at different periods. They couldn't have had contact with each other. So why, why are they drawing the same bird man or the same purse? Like it because they're seeing the same visions, which suggests that those visions are real.
>> Why, why is snake worship, uh, universal around the world? Circuit worship.
>> Exactly. Because there's something that people are responding to that's not coming from within them, but outside of them.
>> That, that was Carl Jung's like main insight is that, um, is that, you know, getting the idea of, of, can ideas come from without you and not just within you? So, yeah. Well, yeah. And the materialist doesn't want to admit that. And our culture has, since we dropped the atom bomb, has sort of written off the possibility that that could be true. But it's just reconnecting with something that every civilization has always assumed was true, which is there's a spiritual realm that's every bit as real as your iPhone or this desk. And it's just, it's absolutely real and it acts on us all the time. And that is the truth.
>> Yeah. And, um, I know you seem to take that for granted, but it's still shocking to those of us who grew up in a, you know, basically a, a godless country.
>> Totally. I mean, one of the, the basis for my, my interest in a lot of this is, you know, um, my mom was raised in a Christian home. I consider, you know, I'm a Christian myself. And my mom would always say, you know, she became a Christian in the '70s, and she, but she knew all the psychedelic, um, groups back in the '60s, you know, Love Spirit, um, you know, she and my aunt would go to, you know, Door Shows and all those, you know, uh, groups from the late 1960s. And something that she'd say, and, and people who are, um, you know, rock and rollers into the occult would say that they both say the same thing, um, which is that people take drugs, musicians do, uh, for inspiration, for creativity, to tap themselves into the spiritual realm, to get to pull something from outside themselves. So the basis for my interest in a lot of this stuff was like, that's something my mom says, my mom's a great Christian, one of the all-time greats. And, uh, this is something that, you know, every musician knows too, that's why they take drugs is to tap into the spiritual.
>> So I didn't know that. I thought that people took drugs. I mean, I took drugs.
>> People take drugs for all kinds.
>> I'll admit it, but I always assumed that those insights were really mostly fake insights, but, um, all that stuff came from within. That it was, I mean, I bought the Freudian analysis of it, that there's, you only use 10% of your brain and there's this whole sort of primordial sea in your head of of thoughts and visions that you're not in touch with on a daily basis, but that drugs thin the membrane. But I, it never occurred to me a single time until middle age when I started to see reality that actually they're coming from outside you.
>> Well, that, and Tucker, that's a great point. That's something that any psychedelic, it's kind of a double, double standard thing I deal with where when talking about drug use, they'll always say, well, there's no difference between what's going on in my head and what's going outside. It's, we're all one. That's always, you know, I think it was William James said, you know, the great oceanic feeling, you know, what he, what he would. But that's, that's always their big insight is, hey man, what's going on in my head is different from what's going outside. Until the psychonaut encounters some sort of weird demon on DMT, and then they backtrack and they're like, brother, that's just in my head. Don't worry. What's in my head can't get in your head. So they, they go from until you have two different people meeting the same demon.
>> Right. Right. Right.
>> Then you realize, well, wait a second.
>> Well, psychonauts are maybe not the most logistically consistent.
>> No, but I'm just saying again, just to hammer the point again and again and again, because it can't be hammered hard enough, that there is a realm that exists outside of us over which we are not in control.
>> Yes.
>> And that it can enter, you can bring stuff into you.
>> Right.
>> That has control over you.
>> Right. Right. Right. Totally.
And, you know, um, to, to bring this back into some historical precedent, a good question that, you know, people have asked me, you know, what are the precedents for this? Because this is really weird to think of people in tech, uh, you know, who are into this strange AI stuff. You know, I thought everyone was pretty grounded. But, um, you know, if you look at, um, you know, are you familiar with the story of Jack Parsons over at, um, you know, he.
>> Please tell the story if you don't mind.
>> I, I'll do, do a succinct one. Um, Jack Parsons, you know, he grew up in Pasadena. Um, you know, he was, uh, he was brought on by, I think it's Theodore von Kármán, um, uh, this, uh, this scientist over at, I think it's Cal, is it at Caltech or eventually it was JPL, but he, but he, he was really, really into the occult. And, uh, he summoned the devil, allegedly, when he was 13, really, really into esoteric stuff, part of this greater LA avant-garde scene. And, um, you know, he's, I think like the, I think it's been said he's the fourth most important person in the history of, um, of, uh, you know, of jet rocketry and stuff like that. But he was really, really into the idea of, um, you know, bringing in a, uh, manifesting a supernatural being. So he would go with, um, L. Ron Hubbard, the future founder of Scientology. And I know that Scientology says, they say that L. Ron Hubbard was, he was doing intelligence work, he wasn't really into into this stuff, but, um, he would, uh, he would go with L. Ron Hubbard into, um, the Pasadena Royal Oaks and they do rituals there and they try to, uh, manifest, you know, a kind of supernatural, uh, figure. So there's a classic example there. And science is littered with these of people who are brilliant scientists, but who are into incredibly strange stuff. And, uh, you know, his the guy.
>> I noticed that a lot of those scientists are working on technology that kills people.
>> Yeah, you know, they also do that too. And, and the guy that brought him on.
>> Well, Parsons was doing that.
>> I mean, ultimately the technology was used to kill people.
>> Which one are you referring to?
>> Rocketry.
>> Oh, yeah. Rocketry was. And what's funny, too, is he, he, he either he or Von Kármán, they donated to, um, my friend Rick Spence. He, he, um, he's like the Doc Brown to my Marty McFly. This, he's this historian I brought on for, um, my show trying to do it. And he's an expert on Parsons and this stuff. And he pointed out to me that Parsons and Von Kármán, that they were, um, they were part of the Pasadena cell 122 of the Communist Party, which is, he said, the exact same one that I forget if it was Robert or Frank Oppenheimer and Pasadena were also donating money to. So there's an incidental, um, funny historical connection there between Oppenheimer and Parsons and, um, you know, the Communist Party. But, uh.
>> As if we needed more evidence that nuclear weapons are demonic.
>> Well, I know this upsets certain people on the so-called right, but it's evil. And if you can't see it as evil.
>> Yeah.
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