New DMT Experiment Finds 'Alien Code' Hidden in the Fabric of Reality | Danny Goler

[Music] Dude, last night was one of the wildest experiences I've ever had. I'm glad to hear that. It was fun to watch you. Wow, dude, I can finally say I've done DMT. Congratulations. Thank you, thank you very much. The way you did it too, like the way you helped guide us through it, and by doing the Wim Hoff breathing upfront and like timing out all of the the hits and understanding what to expect, like you really made it a super enjoyable and comfortable experience. So, first of all, thanks for doing that, man. That was a really cool thing for me to do. I appreciate it, man. Yeah, it means a lot, actually. I wasn't that, I realized later that I'm not that good of a guide, even though I've done it so many times. Uh, and then I put a lot of effort into understanding what it actually requires to guide somebody. So it means a lot that you're saying that. Yeah, no, no, no, you, you did a, a fantastic job. I wasn't expecting all of that sort of like warmup to it, so I thought that was great. Um, and I'm, it's kind of been crazy to process over the last eight hours. When I used to think of DMT, I thought of it more of something you would get from like a marijuana gummy or to, like, to the extreme, but just for a short period of time, right? Like this wasn't. And I was, I've always, whenever I take gummies, I sometimes I have like bad trips, like my worst fears creep into my thoughts. This was not like that. This was just smiles. Like I just couldn't stop smiling. And it was just so bizarre getting catapulted out of my body like that. I, I, I can't, I can't really put it into words yet, but, um, it's a, Jesus Christ, that was wild.

Well, again, I'm super happy that you had a great experience. Uh, one of the things, you were absolutely right. Before you do it for the first time, I remember mine. You can't really imagine that it's possible to go the opposite direction of getting high. Because with everything that we have, weed, alcohol, well, most things, even with mushrooms, that kind of send you in a similar direction, it's always like something is drifting away slightly from your senses, either up, like a little bit down, to the sides. Rarely that do your senses get sharper. And like everything kind of goes, like you said, I see everything more in 3D. Everything looks more real. Yes, that, that direction is not really familiar to us, though. Yes. Yeah.

But that part of it was kind of like an after part. That was like an after effect of it. Cuz like originally, after I was at like my third hit, I was starting to like feel a little wobbly. And then I did a fourth hit and I was like, I felt like the, the rocket lifting off, right? And then the fifth hit, I was like, almost gone. And then by the time I inhale that fifth hit, I just like, right out of my body, just shot right out the top of my body, and I was, I was gone. I was just catapulted through another universe filled with light, cluster, like different color lights and spectrums and patterns. And the few times I did open my eyes, though, it was, uh, it was almost unbearable. I was almost scared. Like when I, when I opened my eyes and I saw the, uh, like bursting with light, and then I saw like peripheral, like lights coming in, the TV, I couldn't even see the TV cuz it was just like, it was just light. Like, and the overwhelming sound that kind of like drone, weird sort of like droning buzzing sound. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's always there. It's weird. Terrence used to say that he thinks that's the sound that carries you in, uh, that it kind of, it coats everything in the right frequency so you can go there. It's almost like it vibrates your body in the right frequency so you can, in, in fact, experience it. So if we're a level of frequencies, right? And then you can perceive things on different frequencies. It's almost like it brings you to the right frequency to see that.

Is there any other drug you can take where everyone experiences the same things, or very, very similar things? Not to this extent, no. Well, I don't know if you know this, but, uh, so when Dennis and Terrence, Dennis and Terence McKenna, when they went to La Hoya, when they were, well, I think 18 and 23, something like that, they did this experiment in La Hoya. There's, Terrence wrote a book about it, Dennis has just released a book about it. Um, and the experiment was around, well, a few parameters, but the sound was one of them. Then it said that if you can, what he thought, and you know, it's a little bit more complicated to go into the details of exactly what he thought there, but the gist of it was, if you can bring about the sound with, with your voice while this is happening to you inside, there's, there's an alignment that's supposed to happen. It's supposed to do something. That's what they were trying to do. So he was trying to mimic the sound that his own voice with his own voice, and he was trying to like go through all the octaves and like find it exactly. And, yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. So there's like a, the idea is if you can do that while you're not on DMT. No, no, while you're on, while you're doing it. They were doing very strong mushrooms, *Psilocybe cubensis*, but those were strong enough to produce the sound. You can get strong enough mushrooms that would give you the sound, right? Okay.

And how is that different from, I, I, Ayahuasca is basically DMT coated with a different plant. I forget the name of it right now, which basically allows you to ingest it. Because DMT, uh, if you just swallow it, nothing happens. With Ayahuasca, when you, you know, you ingest it, you, you digest it, basically for like five to six hours, and it, yeah, and it lasts for a long time, right? Right. But if you're asking about the first-person experience of it, I always describe it as the human channel. So like what you saw yesterday was kind of like the main artery, just everything. Ayahuasca is everything about humans. So it's just like, I said, it's much more carnal. It's much more, uh, I always say, and this is actually, I think, I, I think I stole this from Terrence, to be honest, but he was saying it's much more carnal. It's much more kind of like the earth and the rivers and, uh, the human drama, like that kind of stuff. It, it's much more, uh, what it means to be a human on earth, right? It's that channel. So there's a lot of wisdom in there. That's why people find it so therapeutic, I think, because it's, it's the ultimate context of what it's possible, what is possible for a human. Like, for example, I had the experience of, uh, what is the ultimate father once, one time. So it's almost like it showed me what is this perfect archetype of a father, what that means. And the gist of it was, uh, it's the, your father will let you, as a perfect father will let you, you, as a male, would let you go full throttle, make all your mistakes so you, so you learn how to be a man, how all of that. But then if you can't go on any longer, he's got you. That's the ultimate father. Oh, wow. Yeah. He will never let you fall.

Yeah, it's got to be so much different when you're, when you're stuck there for hours and you have to face it and you can't escape, right? That's a separate subject. But yeah, at least last night, like I knew this was going to be over, like very soon. But when you're doing it with the Ayahuasca and you're, wherever in the jungle, and you're going to be dealing with this for three or four or five hours, that's a totally different beast. Yeah. But look, with Ayahuasca, this is why you do it with guidance, right? I mean, some people do it without, which I don't recommend. But I think you're right, there's a big difference between experiencing this for five minutes and experiencing something like that, and then something going a little bit sideways, and then you're stuck in that sideways, right? For hours. That can actually do damage. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Like my biggest fear is actually meeting the devil. Interesting. Why? Why is that? Just when I say meeting the devil, I mean just like confronting my deepest darkest thoughts or like the deepest darkest, um, potential realities. You know, like, like Mike was explaining last night, when he actually ate those four cookies, he said that he was just like in the fetal position in the corner of his hotel room for like eight hours and just thinking about all the, the worst-case scenario about everything, you know, just like in this state of fear constantly. And that's what, that's what I always go to when I get, go too far on like a marijuana gummy. Interesting.

So let's click on this for a second. Do you, did you come from a religious background, like your parents? No, no. So you mean the devil metaphorically, or you mean actually? Yeah, no, I don't mean like meet Satan. I mean, I mean just like, just go to a place that is what I would imagine hell is. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's a, that's an interesting thing because that, not a lot of people have this particular fear. People have like a specific, you know, they, they're afraid of snakes, like they have a very specific fear, right? Yours is much more general about suffering in general, it sounds. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Which is very interesting because it's a very deep, uh, archetypal component of of that space. Because ultimately, if you look at, for example, what the Buddha discovered, right? His whole teaching was around, what you want to do is, the way he called it is, get out of the house. So get out of the, uh, reincarnation cycle. And he emphasized that you want to do that, no matter what. So that's the only thing he ever emphasized from a metaphysical perspective. Out of the Incarnation cycle. Reincarnation cycle. The reincarnation cycle. What do you mean by that? So we reincarnate according to the, you know, to the belief. And basically, what happens is that the reason you're in this cycle is because of attachment. So the, the attachment is the fuel that keeps you in the cycle. And attachment to even form in general, like even if you're, you know, kind of liberated and you no longer need much in life and all of that, you still have an attachment to form because you are a form. Yes. So the idea is that you're supposed to get to a place where you're so, the, non-attachment is so complete that in the moment that you die, there's not enough grabbing power to keep you within the cycle. So you don't, you can't reincarnate anymore. You're just Nirvana. Just become. You get out of the house. It's out. There's no more reincarnation for you. That's it.

What's interesting though, the reason I mentioned this is because he said it doesn't actually matter if you're in the depth of of hell or in the highest of possible places of bliss. Mhm. It's exactly the same. Yeah. Because he said that even if you are, so according to the Buddhist belief, there are, you know, all the, I think there's like seven layers of hell. There's like, I, I don't remember how many layers of heavens. Mhm. But even if you're in the highest of heavens and you're the ultimate being there, which I guess what we in our Western world would call the God Almighty, right? You're still, still within the cycle. You're still in the house. Which means that eventually, even if you spend, I don't know, 30 trillion years in ultimate bliss, Mhm, you burn so much good karma that you might actually drop to the lowest of hell still. And because it's infinite, the only way out is out of the house. So it's interesting that you mention that because the ultimate, the ultimate way out is to just understand that it's all the same. And it doesn't really matter how much bliss you feel or how much suffering you feel. If you can just truly accept the present moment, which is what the now is, right? If you can truly be it, you, you're invincible like that. That's, that's the only thing that you should care about ever, right?

Yeah, that was another, another weird thing that I felt last night, right? After I got blasted out of my body, after my soul blasted out of my carcass, was that, uh, like the feeling of losing touch with everything in reality, like losing touch with like everything I'm attached to in the real world, right? And just like having the very core of my existence just catapulted through the universe. That was, it was such a wild, wild experience. How real it feels, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, so to open this up, you have basically found a tear in the fabric of reality. You found a way under the map. So as people that play video games would say. I get that. That's a really good way of putting it. Yeah. Yeah. Can you, first of all, explain exactly what you discovered and how you discovered it? And then we'll kind of like, we'll sum that up, then we'll like start from the beginning and then go through La Hoya like a linear fashion of how this all happened.

Okay, so in short, I basically discovered that there is a way, uh, there's this phenomenon on DMT that a lot of people are experiencing similar things, emphasis on similar, like very similar, but similar. And I, as, because I, I've done it so many times, I asked myself, okay, wait a second. I don't think there's any possibility at this point for me to believe that this is somehow mind-made, whatever we call mind-made, right? Um, and then I asked myself, okay, well, if it, this, if the space is real, is there anything we can do to prove that it's real? And one of the first things that came to mind is like, well, if we can find something that is exactly the same in that space for everybody, that puts us in a good place to start talking about it like a repeatable experiment. Well, repeatable experiment would be the thing that would show you that it's the same. I'm saying, yeah. Can we find that one thing in some way that is the same for everybody? That was the thought. It took me years to figure it out. And we can talk about the details of how I figured it out in the end. But this one component, which essentially is what I discovered, if you project a diffract laser on the surface, which just means a band of the laser, just like, you know, the thing that scans barcodes in, in a supermarket, and you smoke DMT, you will see code running in the surface that you're projecting the laser on.

It's football season and you know what that means. It's time for tailgate and touchdowns and partying like monkeys with my federal handlers. And that's why this season I'm only rocking with Mando because we both know the feds can smell your fear. And that's what makes Mando's whole body deodorant a game day essential. Even if you're not openly being spied upon, you're still going to get hot and sweaty when it's third and long and the game is on the line. So why is Mando the MVP? It controls your odor for 72 hours. And that's perfect for long game days, like at the bar or running from the feds. It's a cleansing bar, safe for your whole body, and deodorizes everything from your pits, package, feet, to everywhere in between. So it stops odor before it starts. Yes, even after those tailgate sprints to the restroom. It's available in solid stick, invisible spray, and invisible cream, and comes in four cologne quality scents. And new customers are getting $5 off the starter pack with our exclusive code and link. Use code Danny at shopmando.com. That's S H O P M A N D O.com. The reason I like Mando is because it's super convenient and it's a whole body cleansing bar that also works as a deodorant on top of that. It's baking soda free, aluminum free, and it's dye free and vegan. So my skin never breaks out when I use this stuff. But Danny, how is this any better than using soap alone? All right, 12 hours after a shower, the average man's grundle odor was a five out of 10. With Mando, the average grundle odor was zero out of 10. Sniff on that, Steve. Mando's starter pack is perfect for new customers or to secure some last-minute stocking stuffers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, a cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice, like the mini body wash and the deodorant wipes, and free shipping. And luckily, I have a discount code to help you get hooked on my favorite smelling whole body deodorant on the market. New customers get $5 off the starter pack with our exclusive code. That equates to over 40% off your starter pack by using the code Danny at shopmando.com. S H O P M A N D O.com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Don't let B.O. keep you on the bench. Smell better naked with Mando.

And this basically is the same for every single person. They see in the beginning, they kind of see similar, like they see some structures, they see some movement, they see something kind of like there. But then eventually they drop, drop into the space where they just see the same thing. And we can sit in a room, I had 15 people in a room at the same time talking about it, pointing to it. You can literally talk about it like you talk about a regular object in a room. This is how coherent it is. That's the gist of what I found. And how many people have you shown this to that have seen it? Me personally, hundreds of people. Uh, I know of at, I keep saying at least over a thousand that I, I just, I just wanted to be, you know, as concrete as possible. So I, I counted like how many people reached out and told me this is how many people I showed, this is how many people saw it. So I calculated all of that. It was, uh, at that point, it was like 980 people, right? So this was five months ago. So I'm pretty sure there's like, at this point, it's kind of like this little subcultural thing and people just, there's communities forming around it, people kind of talk about it, all that stuff. Yeah. So I think this would be a good point. Maybe we should show the trailer. Sure. Let's, let's show that to people. Steve, can you pull it up? Um, it's called The Discovery, right? Just type in The Discovery DMT on YouTube, you'll find it. Right. Let's see what we got here. All right, full screen that bad boy. By the way, I want to mention that, pause for a second, I'm sorry. Uh, I, I just want to mention that the director of this, uh, trailer and the film we're working on is, uh, Aaron Vanden. He's truly is incredible. He came up with this thing in less than a week. It's just unbelievable. I, I think, uh, where credit is due, credit is due, and it's very important to mention. Shout out to Aaron. Yeah. All right, here we go.

[Music] I remember things very vividly from a very young age. When I was a little kid, I actually spent a lot of time with my grandparents. My grandfather was a nuclear physicist. I remember he was telling me about black holes, and that terrified me. I was like, that's just mind-boggling. It's a monster, right? But at the same time, it fascinated me. And I said to myself, how do we know that this unthinkably massive thing? I realized that nature doesn't keep secrets. It's only a matter of, do we understand what tools can we use to expand our knowledge? And for me, dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT, was the tool that led me to the discovery.

[Music] When I first saw the phenomenon, he was like, holy [ __ ]! But then it was actually like, whoa, what is happening? Am I losing my mind? But then I showed other people, and things kept getting weirder. Just for the record, I haven't told him anything. Okay, just tell me what you see. Oh my God. Come on. Wow. What the [ __ ]? Holy [ __ ]! I just saw something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What the [ __ ]? Oh, I see that. I feel it. I've been under the influence of mind-altering substances a lot, but I've never seen anything like that. Whoa. I showed over 100 people, and I kept asking myself, how are all of us seeing the same thing? Oh my God, it's changing shapes right there. The laser was revealing numbers and letters running in a pattern, almost like this big here, and it looks like code. It looked like that was a thick laser. That's I told something. I just want to take a picture of it and translate it. Wow. You see that? Okay, so yeah, it's not stuck. No, it's not. Because of the light? No, it's, it's on its own side. Light is just literally revealing it. And each angle shows you different layers, different ways through it. I can see through the wall. It's not like a hallucination. It has spatial awareness and permanence. I don't know. Wow. For centuries, mankind has attempted to explore these psychedelic altered states, but we've never had a repeatable, testable phenomenon to observe until now. Wow. I'm, I'm obsessed. It's like you can see through the laser into another dimension. I mean, like, take yourself with that. Like, I, I just made a connection. Did nobody made before? Which is a simple connection. The claim is, if you project a diffract laser on the surface and you smoke the DMT, you will see code running in surfaces. Yes. Like in The Matrix. So there are a few possibilities. One, I lost my mind, which is the coolest losing your mind ever in history. The second option is that this is the biggest discovery of humankind. If anybody ever asked themselves what it would be like to know you live in The Matrix, for sure, well, I know for sure, I'm convinced. So where do we go from here? All I know is it's about to get crazy.

So what gave you the idea to throw this, first of all, create this diffract laser and shine it on the wall while you were on DMT? Well, that's what the movie is going to be depicting, basically. A lot of it is what are the moves that I had to take to kind of figure it out. It took years. Um, basically, so the question of whether this space is real is not the first time that anybody's asking this question, as you, of course, know, because you had people on the podcast like Graham Hancock, that are literally involved directly with these investigations on, on a scale of like actually putting in a lab and, you know, right? Uh, so that question is already out there. I actually wasn't aware that more serious people were asking this question when I asked myself that question. Uh, I just had a set of experiences that were so real, so like everything you experienced yesterday, I've had it for years, right? Yeah. Then I had a set of experiences that was one level above that, if you can imagine that, which is, it just became like my regular space. So I came back from, uh, actually a meditation retreat, and I'm, I always say I'm not sure it's necessarily related, but that's how it happened chronologically. And something tells me maybe there's something there. Maybe there was something about the, I was, uh, you know, aligned enough, pure, I have no idea. Mhm. But basically, I, I, I was called to smoke it and smoked a bunch of it, and then I realized after about 45 minutes that I was just staring at the ceiling, nothing happened. Now, that's impossible, right? I smoked a bunch of it and, and then I realized, oh, nothing happened. Now, there's a phenomenon on on DMT called a white out, which is that if you smoke too much, you don't even realize you went, like, you just have a complete, like, you don't even realize that anything happened. Is it possible that that's what happened? Sure. I can't know. But I, I think I know the space enough to say I don't think so. I think it was just like, nothing happened. And then after 45 minutes, I had this thought, which is something that Terrence McKenna said one, in one of his talks. He was talking about mushrooms, but he said, this is not a drug, this is an alien disguising as a drug. And then I thought, wait, what if it's actually not kind of a metaphor? What if it's actually aliens talking to us through these molecules, through the mind space, which is somehow the real space? Like, what if the mind is the real space and this is all just like kind of reflection of everything? So then the second I thought that, you know how you have this dial in your brain responsible for how seriously you take a proposition? Like, there's a difference between thinking there's a fire in the house and knowing there's a fire in the house. There's an emotional response attached to the second proposition, right? You're like, oh yeah, we got to get the [ __ ] out of here, okay, right? So the proposition is, this is an actual alien civilization. Went to full red in my head for a second. Like I was just convinced of that. Like the state that I occupied with my presence was just like, oh, this is an alien civilization talking to us now. I had this thought after 45 minutes of the smoking DMT. I did not smoke anymore in that instance. Everything flashed white. I didn't smoke anymore. I don't even know how that's possible. Everything just flashed white, like everything. And I heard whispers all over the room. It's like, it's paying attention. What do we say? Like, now it wasn't English, but it was, I understood that that's what it was, right? I was like, and then a frog dude appeared right next to me, next to my bed. And he was as real as you. He was tangible. He was coherent in space, standing. And in that moment, I was like, okay, I think I really did it this time. I was like, I was just staring at it. I was like, and then he basically, the whole room pointed at my guitar. And I, I was like, oh, they want to communicate to, like, music theory or whatever. I like, I'm just practicing, I don't know anything about that. They're like, just go to the guitar. So I got up, went to the guitar, picked up the guitar. He disappears from one side of the room and appears right next to me, like, in the speed of light, just like right next to me. And then he puts his frog fingers where I'm supposed to strum and, you know, do the chords. Yeah. And he's like, do this. And I was like, and I'm trying to follow, and, you know, I'm still like, all shaking up. Yeah. And I'm like, so I'm trying to do this, and all of a sudden, a melody starts to come on, like, like actual music. Uh, slow, because I'm following slowly, but it's like, clearly this is a thing, right? And he's like, you don't know how to do this. I'm telling you how to do this. This is real information. I'm real. And I was like, I, I was just frozen. I was like, oh my God. And then in that instance, the only thing that came out, I just exclaimed in the other room, I had an Airbnb guest, uh, was running out the other room. It was a PhD postdoc, uh, because I lived right next to UCLA, from Italy. His name was Marco. And I just exclaimed his name because I, I was just like, Marco. And it was like 2:00 AM. So luckily he didn't get up, you know, because I always say, like, what, what would I tell him that a frog dude from another dimension taught me how to play the guitar, right? So then I was like, okay, so then he didn't wake up. I called my best friend. He came over. I'm like, you got to get here right now. He came over, and I told him what happened, and I'm like, like, you don't understand, this is real. And he goes like, and now, this, this guy, we've, we've done everything together, like we've went really wild, did a bunch of things. So he's not new to this, right? And even he looked at me and went, I think you need to lay down. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, you don't understand, this is real. And he's like, he just couldn't, he couldn't like, he couldn't accept that. Mhm. So then from that moment on, when I started doing DMT, it was like literally like a phone call. Like I would, I would do it, and they would just appear. Not always like that frog dude, but they would be very coherent in space and they would like explain things to me, talk to me. And I was like, this is insane. Like, and this was going on for like a year, right? And then I realized I started reading online and I found that this is a thing, like some people experience this new level of like talking to aliens, like they always come to them, like all that stuff. In fact, there was this one case that I was mentioned because it was really funny to me, here in Florida, uh, there was this guy, who was a therapist, and this started happening to him, which is like, he started talking to aliens on DMT, and he just dropped everything. He just did that full time. And eventually he had to go quit his job. I don't know if he quit his job, but he just stopped doing everything he was doing. And then eventually he himself had to go to a shrink. Oh my God. And then the other guy told him, okay, listen, you're not talking to aliens, you got to stop doing that, right? Um, but the funny thing is, he was talking to aliens that was real. It's just that we don't know what to do with that. Which is kind of like where I landed after about a year of this. I was like, okay, how do we prove this? You know, I was trying to ask them, people ask me, who is them? Well, people like that frog dude, like whoever that is, right? And it was very, always very esoteric. It was never something that was applicable to our space. It was like, oh, when we jump into your body and you do this, the whole room folds in half. Great. What do I do with that, right? So, um, eventually I just kind of said, okay, cool, like, I'll come visit, but that's about as far as I can go with this because I, you know, now, luckily, it didn't actually really infringe itself too much into my regular life. I just kept on doing everything I was doing. But yeah, at a certain point, I had to kind of let, let it go. And then that was the beginning of all of this. And eventually, because I kept on thinking about this, like, how do we prove this? And this is what the movie is going to be about, things started happening to me like hints that would appear, things that would, you know, show up at the right time. And I just eventually kind of was led to this conclusion that if you project this laser, something is supposed to happen.

It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year. Holidays on the house with DraftKings Casino. With this season's offerings, you'll unwrap everything you wished for, from table games and jackpots to a slot at the top of everyone's list. Jingle Bells Power Reels. Like I've said before, I love DraftKings because I can jump in whenever I want and whenever I have downtime and not have to worry about dodging potholes while driving to the casino. And Steve hasn't even caught on yet, but I've been winning on his account too. Have a merry season like me with DraftKings. DraftKings is offering a warm welcome to new players with $100 instantly in casino credits with just a $10 wager. Plus, everyone can get in on the action with a holiday reward every week. So sign up with code Danny Jones Pod because the holiday cheer is here, only on DraftKings Casino. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-Gambler. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. Please play responsibly. 21 plus. Physically present in Connecticut, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia only. Void in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. New customers only. Opt-in required. Casino credits are non-withdrawable and expire in 168 hours. Terms at casino.draftkings.com/promos. It's linked below. Now back to the show.

So the, it started with this initiation of like a very realistic set of experiences that I put it beyond any shadow of possibility that this is real, followed by years of kind of following this weird intuition coupled with my technical understanding of the world, right? So I have, you know, I have some understanding of what we know in physics, and I'm like, okay, well, what can it be? And they started thinking in that direction. And when I would reach a certain kind of, uh, fork in the road, there would be something that would happen that would definitely not, you wouldn't be able to fold this into like a, you know, a methodology, scientific methodology, because it was like an intuitive thing. It's like, well, I saw these numbers, they mean this thing. It's more kind of like a long Charlie Day in the basement, just connecting dots kind of thing, right? Right. But then something would happen there that I felt that was concrete enough, and I would follow that. And then I would connect other things that I know, and I would follow that. So the whole time I was doing that, it's just a game I'm playing. Like it was never serious. It was never like, I never put it in the forefront of like, I'm figuring out the secrets of the universe. It's like, you just do your thing. Mhm. And that thing happens, great. So, you know, it was a fun game. And one day, um, we were walking in, uh, uh, we were in the botanical gardens in in Colorado with my now fiance, and we're talking about, I told her about a lot of this stuff. And then she, you know, well, she's like, all right, cool, like, what do you do with that, right? And then we started talking about why plants are green. We started talking about, like, the fact that, you know, plants reject green, that's the only color they don't use, that's why they're green. Um, and then I asked, why some color, why some plants are red? And she said, well, I think maybe that's because they reject red. I'm like, okay, why do they reject red? They reject green, like that's not clear. So we're talking about this stuff. And there was a moment where we stepped outside that. So I told her that also the number 42 started following me everywhere, okay? So that this is what, 2? Yeah. So there, there's a lot of components. This is why we're making a whole film about it. So I'm trying to like, keep the story coherent. Um, and this is one of these things, okay, so this is actually important to unpack, because I'm trying to kind of, uh, you know, get through the story quickly, but I think it's important to unpack. Yes. So numbers that would appear for you, right? People see, you know, 111 on clocks, things like that, right? It's, uh, it's a little flimsy because the clock does show 111 and 1111, Mhm, like times a day, right? So about people who experience this thing where they see always see the same numbers all the time, everywhere they go. Exactly. There's something significant that happens in their lives where there's, there's a number correlated with it, and then somehow that follows them for the rest of their lives, everywhere they go, something like that. Yeah, no, there, there is this thing, right? In the brain, where if you start paying attention to something, all of a sudden you see it everywhere. Just like when you buy a new car, you. Exactly. Yep. Right. So because of that, uh, all of these instances of people that follow these like, uh, very really like simple things like seeing something on the clock, right? That's not enough. That's like, okay, again, it appears four times a day. Now your brain is looking for it. It, it's easy to explain this way, right? When I'm saying the number, uh, like the number 42 would appear for me, it wasn't like that. It was in instances that just like way beyond the possibility of just like a statistical fluke, right? So basically, one example would be like, I would be thinking about this subject, and I would be in traffic, and I would lift my head and I would see a truck, right? In front of me, and it would be so dirty, like all muddy, and it would be one tiny area where just wiped clean, and with a 42 written with a Sharpie on the back window, like things like this. It's a little bit different, right? That still can be said, okay, well, you know, maybe your eyes saw a lot of numbers in that moment, and only when it lands on that, that's when you register. Yeah, I accept that. That's fine. But the first hint did appear for me, which is something that, uh, I didn't tell you yet, but the first hint that appeared for me was the, these numbers on the floor. You know, the Department of Water and Power, they write these, uh, uh, numbers on the, on the ground. You're familiar with that? No. So Department of Water and Power, they write things. You'll notice it, that now that I told you, you'll notice it, uh, sometimes on the, on the pavement, you'll see like random numbers written down with, with like a, almost like a spray or something. Oh, like on the sidewalks. Exactly. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. They represent what kind of power lines or water lines go through that thing, okay? So I'm an editor, and I was working on a music video, and I couldn't fix a color problem for hours. So I decided to take a break. I went on a stroll. It was the middle of the night. I went to Ralph's to get a sandwich. It was right next to Pierce College. I walk around and I'm thinking about this subject, which is, every once in a while, I would think about it, like, how, how do we prove that this space is real? One of the things that was very clear to me is that light had to be involved. And I knew, because you can see it with your eyes, and I knew that there's supposed to be some kind of an entry point to the space in which we're supposed to all see the same thing, which is what I told you in the beginning. If it's not clear, you can stop me at any point, okay? Even if the space is infinite, we all sometimes experience it and sometimes don't experience it, right? That means that we enter the space somehow, something happens, and then you're aware of it, right? So there's an entry point in which it's supposed to be the same for everybody. At least that was my conviction or my thought, right? So then I knew light was involved. So what I was thinking about was the double-slit experiment. Mhm. Specifically in the context of quantum computers and how they work, and in, and the fact that some, something happens when decoherence happens in the double-slit experiment. Is that right? Before the particle decoheres from the wave function and becomes part of, you know, whatever is real, uh, it, or at least according to the many-worlds interpretation, it basically interacts with all the instances of itself across all the parallel universes. Now, this sounds highly theoretical. However, the only reason the quantum computers work is because this is a fact, okay? So this is not, not enough people talking about it. But according to David Deutsch, who also is the father of the Deutsch equations, who actually made quantum computers possible, so he definitely knows what he's talking about, that's the only coherent interpretation of what's going on, which is that the reason quantum computers work, which is, you know, you can make these enormous calculations in an instance, you know, anything about quantum? Yeah, I know a little bit about. Is because we literally, uh, distribute the, the computation power across all the worlds. So all the adjacent parallel universes to you are doing the exact same calculation as you are in that instance. And then you have an equation that helps you understand what part of the, uh, of the sliver of possibilities of it occurring this way you are. And that's what allows you to do the calculation. But the important thing for our story is that basically the fact that quantum computers work tells you that the possibility that parallel universes are real, it makes it a very, very real possibility. Mhm. And that's what I was thinking about. And then I noticed that the stoplight, the way it was changing colors, looked different from each color. It was the middle of the night, so I had not a lot of things to pay attention to. So I noticed that when it changes from green to red to yellow, the way that the light is distributed on the edges, if you squint your eyes a little bit, looks different. It's like a different pattern. Now, I knew that there's a lot of possible explanations here. Maybe the glass sits a little, sits a little different. Maybe they use a different glass for each color. Who knows, right? Right. But the second I thought that in the context of the double-slit experiment and how light behaves, I thought, would it be possible to utilize these properties to communicate between the worlds? Would it be possible to send a signal, just like when the computers work, to actually send some kind of a signal between the worlds? And when I thought that, I had this very strong sense in me that told me, yes, look there. It was like almost like a person told me that. Now, I wasn't on any substance. I was just walking around. And it was like, yes, look there. I was like, okay. The second I thought that, I looked down, and I see these numbers from the Department of Water and Power. And what was interesting about this particular, these particular sets of numbers, because to the left of them, there was a line with a, a circle with a line through it, which kind of made it look like a, like a UI editing software, like Premiere or something, where you move the dial. So I thought, oh, wouldn't it be cool if this number just matches some kind of a lot number I have, you know, that will fix my color problem, right? But then I was like, ah, then I walked away. Went got my sandwich. Came back. Coming back, I'm looking, coming from the other side of the street, I'm looking to the other side. I'm like, looked around, nobody around. Nobody's going to see me do this [ __ ] it just go take a picture of it because I felt like it was insane, right? Why would I do that, right? So I took a picture, went back home, put in the numbers in, uh, uh, in Spotlight. Now, this is important because I didn't Google anything. I just literally, you know, Spotlight on a Mac, the way it works, it looks through your computer, and then it looks through the web at the same time. Spotlight is like the search engine on a Mac. Oh, yeah. You just, you're basically just, it's like a general search. I've never even heard of that, really. Um, uh, command space. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, like the finder thing. Yeah, yeah, I see. Well, Spotlight is kind of like, uh, it's more like the general one. Yeah, yeah, I see. You're probably right about that. So basically, so it's a series of six random numbers. It's all I put in. And I took a picture of that. Thank goodness, because I don't think anybody would believe me. So I took, so I just put a six random numbers. Now, think about this. It searches through both the web and the computer. M. What are the chances, even if it doesn't find anything of these exact six numbers, it would give you something adjacent, some file with numbers that kind of close to that? It would give you something, right? It will give you five, six options. Okay. Gave me one option, and it was not on my computer. It found something on the web from the entire internet, and it was a number that matched a research paper, a physics research paper, a physics research paper by CERN, searching for particles outside of the standard model, a year after the discovery of the Higgs boson particle. So I'm sitting there like, what was this number? You still have the photo? Yeah, I'll show you right now. So these are.

The original numbers, okay, okay. 081, 802, 08802. Hold it closer to their mic. Go and and and notice something about the second number. It kind of looks like 081, 801. And the only reason you think that is because the first number is the second number of the first number is eight, right? So you would think it would be consecutive. The second one looks like 03, exactly. So it either looks 03 or 05, even maybe. MH. But because the first number is 081, 802, you think maybe it's 081, 801, right? So anyways, I searched the first one. It doesn't even matter about the second one right now. Okay, you see what I meant by the circle with the line through it? It kind of looks like a dial. Okay, so then I'm searching through the web. This is what I got. And this is actually, it's funny because it's like this is still the music video I'm working on in the background. Premiere. Stephen, can you punch that number in your Spotlight? See what happens. Uh, what? What's the number? 081, 802. Now, it, it also changes according to computer into the person and everything, but let's, it's interesting. Let's find out. 081, 802. 802. All right, so 08. No, no, no, not in Google. Not in Google. There's a little magn on Mac. That's right. Magnifying glass. Command space. Yeah, there you go. Spotlight. Okay, 081, 1802. Uh, 08802. Okay, search hex color. It's a hexad color. No, see, mine didn't come up with a hex color even, which is interesting. Let's see here. Can I zoom in on that? Search the web. Um, search the web. Related searches on the bottom. Oh, [ __ ] I jumped off gasket. Number is that it? The second one. American Physical Society. Press on this one. Abstract. The, the Prospect and stereo collaborations present. But click on it. Let's see what the paper actually is. Okay, stereo collaborations. Combined measurement. Pure. Is that what year is this? 2022. So this one was from 2015. Okay, so first of all, it is interesting because it also changes from person to person, from time to time, because it depends on a lot of different factors, the way it searches. But that's, that's why I took a picture of this because this, you can't fake this, right? It's just what it was. Okay, so then the only other option was the calculator, which is not an option, right? And then this was the only other one for me in that instance. That's the only thing that came up. Okay, so now I have to be honest, like the paper itself, it wasn't clear to me in the beginning, like what, what is the even the connection? Because it was, I mean, the fact that it was in physics just blew my mind. The fact it was CERN blew my mind, right? But other than that, I couldn't really. The name of the paper, if you want to pull the actual paper, is search for B on pair production. I found it there. Oh, there you go. Yeah, there you go. There it is. Y. Look at that. 081802. Yeah. Oh, this one's, this one's published 2022 though. So they do, uh, the same paper, they do like a, like another version of it. Wow. So it's kind of like based on. And then they do the. From what I understand, that's how they do it. Okay. Right. So we probably need a physicist to actually tell us exactly why they do it this way. Yeah. But so what are they, what is the significance of the paper? So actually, there was no significance to this particular paper as far as results. The, the gist of it was that they were searching, they were trying to see if there are any particles outside of what we know with higher energies, outside of the standard model, which is the accepted, uh, zoo of all particles that we know about, right? Okay. Right. They found nothing, according to the paper. Okay. Further research required, all that stuff. But there was, and this is what we kind of approaching in the film too, there was some things in the paper which right now I'm actually in the process of going through, ex read, trying to remember exactly what the trajectory was. But there was something in it, I think that's something that led me to. I don't remember in this one what it was. Anyways, we, we'll approach it in the film. But there was, that's what I mean by the Charlie Day looking in a basement, like sometimes it's like a split second that you see another thing here and then you go to another thing, right? Right. Uh, if you, what's interesting, and we, we can keep testing this if you want. If you do 081, 801, which is the, the other number, or what you would think the other number would be. Mhm. Mhm. 801, 801. Search. Go down. See if the, what other p, uh, physics paper we have. You can just do at this point, just cuz I don't know if the same. Yeah, you have a lot of. Just do physics. Just do physics. So it will be easier for us. Physics, uh, paper. Maybe WR paper. Physics topics. There we go. That should be it. Yeah. Physical. Well, this can't be. This can't be because 2024 from this. Yeah. But, but it, it's probably also a revamping of the older papers, right? Try. It says, yeah, yeah. Let's try it. Let's go through this. Two body invariant mass distributions using unsupervised machine learning. So this is already something much newer. Back then, you didn't have the all the all the stuff about machine learning, right? Right. Right. But, uh, so I saved all these papers. It's actually on my, on my Mac. If you want, I can actually pull it up. Okay. I have all these papers saved by these numbers. I want want you to try something. Steve will find it. Huh? Steve will find it. Okay. Cool. Yeah. What other word would I? No, no, no. The thing, the problem is that they are of different dates. That's see if you go down on the right hand column. Are there like older versions of it? The oldest one I think 2013. I think that was the one that popped up. Yeah. I, I looked in the previous one and there's no references to older versions. Like sometimes it's at the bottom and sometimes it's not, right? Okay. Of the 801 or 802. Well, I mean, like of this paper, like because there, there's multiples, right? Mhm. And, uh, but it just seems like this is the, like this number right here, 128, seems to be like letter 128 of, right? Whatever this. Got it. Top. Okay. Okay. That actually makes perfect sense. So this is like a, almost like addendums. Mhm. Yeah. Got it. Okay. Great. So maybe that 081, 1804 is like a lot number and the, the 128 is just like the, like one paper that's a part of it or something, right? Yeah. Well, to me, to be honest, it was, uh, more the, the things that have kind of appeared inside. That's why I said if you're going to try and fold it into like, if you want to try and present this way of figuring things out to a scientist, they're going to ask you to leave, right? Yeah. Cuz this is not a way to go. I don't, I can't follow that as a scientist and say, okay, I get how, what the methodology is, right? You can't say, I saw something spray painted on the ground, then I Googled it. Exactly. It doesn't work. Well, exactly. Um, but what I discovered, and this, the reason that I keep mention, so I have some friends who are scientists, and they all unyousual to remove this from your story. Even the people who saw the code, scientists who saw the, is like, you really need to remove this part from your story because it hurts your, your, the spray paint part, the spray paint part, and then, and this whole thing that I'm telling you right now, right? They say it, look, it makes you, it immediately makes you tune you out. Like I just, H, automatic. Mhm. And I get it. Yeah. And it is even correct to do in relation, in accordance to what the way we do things in science, right? It has to be repeatable. I have to understand every step of the way of what you've done, and I need to be able to repeat it exactly this way, and I need to be able to extrapolate something universal from it. In other words, you have to explain to me why you think that these specific numbers mean anything. Do you have some kind of a reason to follow these numbers? Like, what is the function behind the fact that you think that these numbers represent something, right? What is the theory behind it? Unless you have that, you just sound like an insane person. And I agree. However, what seems to be the case, and I only much later realize this, is because I think that we understand everything this way. It's just that we usually take the credit for it. So what I mean by that is that we have a set of intuitions, Mhm. That then lands on a particular concreteness of what we understand about the world. But so you have to have a set of understandings first of like certain things, and then you make extra conjectures on top of that. And he was like, what, what works? This works. This works. This works. You do a lot of guesswork, and then you have a way to test for a particular set of the guesswork that you come up with. So there's one branch that seems to be promising, and then you follow that branch and you test it in the most rigorous ways you can possibly think of. And if something checks out, most of the time, nothing checks out. That's how it works. When something checks out, you're like, ah, great. Okay, I'll follow. And then you build on top of that. The fact that something checked out told you that this was the correct direction. But the whole time, you were following a thread that was not random, but it was something that you were basically conjuring all the time. You were like, well, what can, what can it mean? It's like this infinite possibility pool, right? And when we dial it into a more, uh, narrower and narrower channel of guesswork, we call that science. You understand what I'm saying? So the difference between a rule of thumb, which is like, I know that when I build a door with this kind of arc, without measure, measuring the door, and then you try and like align it as much as possible, and eventually it works, you're like, that's a rule of thumb. You're like, well, I kind of know when it, it looks like kind of like this, okay, it, it works, right? And then you can even, you know, you can teach your son this, and then that's basically what an expert back in the day was before we had measurements, right? You just kind of like, well, I know I have a feeling that this, this should work. And, and then your experience of that door with that arc, exactly like that, is right. When we discovered calculations and mathematics and how you measure angles and all that stuff, it stopped being guesswork. It stopped being being a rule of thumb. It became more scientific because you can put numbers on it. Okay, so that's really the only difference. It's a major difference, but that's the only difference. Notice that, you know, what people repeat, which is like the double helix of the DNA, uh, even the one of, I think it was the first Intel chip that, uh, that we figured out how to do the exact, uh, um, engineering of the, the way that the chip is constructed. All of this came, one in one case, a dream. The other case, an LSD trip. M. And this happens all the time. People get these Eureka moments out of nowhere, right? And they have already have a set of experience, sets of expertise, on top of which this now Eureka moment comes on top of, and they're like, ah, okay, I get it, right? So this is important because the reason that I can't remove this from the story is because that's the truth about what put me on the path of searching for that thing. And if I remove this part of the story, I'm lying. Okay. Okay. See what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. So, and this is a very important clarification because I think that ultimately what matters if something actually checks out. And because if, if it would lead to nothing, we wouldn't be here talking about this, and I would just keep living my regular life. But because I follow this exact way of trying to do things, that's what eventually led me to the laser. And it, it does put me in a little bit of a hot seat because, you know, again, it's like, it's not clear why this works. If I have to give it my best guess, is that there is this actual information of about how things are that is constantly floating around, and we are essentially just picking them up, almost like a radio, right? And then if we can take that and we can apply it to something that works in our space, in our three-dimensional space, we call this a discovery because it, it's applicable, it's, you know, functional, you can do something with it, all of that stuff. But ultimately, this, uh, this element of the guesswork is always there. And I, I don't want to minimize it because I think that the intuition part of it is important for something much deeper than we yet to understand, which is our relationship to the world. What is consciousness? How consciousness is, and what it is in relationship to the world? All of these things are very important to consider if we are to understand what the world really is. Mhm. So how did you get from these papers to this defract laser? So, okay, so now that I gave us the, a little bit of the background of this, so this couple with the number 42 is start following me like crazy, right? So we're in this botanical gardens talking about the plants, why green, why red, blah, blah, blah. Great. Stepping outside. Until that point, my, my now fiance, she, she never seen this kind of stuff in action. She only heard me talk about it. She knew enough about me that it's fine, she doesn't have to leave me. Um, and then we step outside. It was a very hot day. It was like 115 degrees. So I'm calling an Uber to go back to the hotel. And she crossed the street to stand under a tree in a shade. Okay. Called The Uber across the street. Come and I hug her. Oh, and that feeling that I described to you about like, yes, look there, you know, when I, when I thought about that idea and something told me, yes, look in that direction. Okay. The same feeling was in me when we were in the botanical garden. It was like, yes, look there. Whatever it was about colors and plants and whatever that was. Okay. We step outside. Called the Uber. She's under a tree. Cross the street. Come and hug her. I hug her. I look down and I'm like, Kelsey, look down. Stressed about the holidays? Bring some calm into your life during this holiday season of shopping madness with VI. I will be embracing the natural power of legal cannabis this season with VI. If you haven't heard, VI is very well known for their award-winning hemp-based gummies, vapes, topicals, and calming drops. I've been taking their gummies and I love them so much. I've been giving them out to all my friends. I like to break them up into quarters and then microdose them throughout the day. If I take a quarter in mid to late afternoon, it enhances my focus. I can sit down and complete a task or read a book. And then late at night, I'll even do up to a half or a whole, and it helps me fall asleep quicker and doesn't affect my REM sleep later on in the night. Via legally ships to nearly all states in the US with discreet packaging with a worry-free guarantee. Via's hemp extract is perfect for relaxation and rejuvenation. Via is the only lifestyle hemp brand. They use compounds found in hemp along with active plant extracts to create products with specific effects so you can get a tailored experience. Whether you want to ease anxiety, enhance your mood, or just get high. And if you're not into THC, that's okay. Not all their products have it. Their CBD products, one of my favorites, are designed for sleep, focus, and energy too. They are experts in hemp extract and using it to get the effect you want naturally. Their products range from 0 milligrams to 100 milligrams of THC, so these guys have you covered whether you're looking to microdose or enjoy more of a potent effect. Via is handcrafted in the USA with no harsh chemicals, AB tested and certified hemp, and they've won awards for customer service with over half a million people served. This holiday season, gift yourself some peace of mind. If you're 21 plus, check out the link to Via in our description for limited time during the holidays. Via is offering 25% off sitewide plus up to 50% off select items and bundles. And if you're hearing this ad and you've already bought via, you can still save by using my code Danny for 25% off. After you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them, and please help support the show and tell them we sent you. Enhance every day this holiday season with Vio. And I still have the picture of her cracking up. The number 42 spray painted right under her feet. The same color. The same color because it's not always in this color. Department of Water and Power writes the same color. And this is now two or three years after, I think. So now we follow the street. The number four. I'm not going to do this now. It doesn't matter. But I mean, if somebody wants, I can always email them the pictures. They can verify it. We, we, we searched and the number 42 repeated twice, like right one, one after another. And there were no other numbers that repeated twice. Wow. So what did that tell me? So, okay, so this is a great example. What do you do with this, right? From a scientific perspective, this is one person or two people in this case, having some kind of a joint, uh, delusion about something mattering or something meaning something, right? Mhm. But from a first person perspective, I'm aware of all these biases. I'm, I'm understand them. Like I get it, right? And then I, at the same time, I have this thing happening to me constantly, constantly, constantly, constantly. I'm telling it to this other person, which happens to be my loved one. We have this experience together. You can either just say, oh, this was funny and walk away, or I'll go, okay, wait a second. What is it telling us? 42 follows me. Follows me every time. I'm kind of like on the right track from what I understand. Great. She's standing on the 42. She's a key somehow. She's supposed to help figure this out somehow. That's what I understood. Okay. And we were talking about it together in the botanical gardens. I, okay. And then we started, and this is where again, I'm, I'm going to disappoint you here because this is still a thing that I'm, I'm going through all my pictures and all my files and trying to figure out exactly what the moves were for the film and all of that. I don't remember exactly right now. But we basically went on this rabbit hole together that whole day, going through different papers, and she's also, uh, she did a lot of research back in college, so she knows how to do this quickly. We, like, you know, we go through all these things. Yeah. And we land. The thing that kept on popping up towards the end was diffract light, diffract light, coherent light, so laser. 650 NM. 650 NM. It kept on repeating again and again in different papers that we found. I was like, okay, I didn't know what that meant. Mhm. But I was like, I think we're supposed to get a laser now. That was during Co. So you couldn't really get a laser ironically anywhere from other than China. So 42, you were searching for 42 in research papers? No, no, no. 42 was just the sign that you're on the right track if you want to follow this line of thought. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Then we kind of started think, I, I started showing her the other papers and through that together, we started going through all the other papers. I see. Again, not applicable to an actual scientific method, right? Right. But we're doing it. We're playing. Mhm. We reach at the end of this, like crazy funnel, whatever that was. We reach these conclusions, which is it's supposed to be diffract light, supposed to be 650 NM. Don't know what that means. Just order a laser. Cool. Okay. Can't find a laser. Only in China because it's Co, ironically. Yeah. And it took it like three months to get to us because of Co, right? Everything was backed up. Got to me eventually. And also the only laser I could get is the ones that you have to kind of like wire and do all that stuff. You could just get a laser pointer was nothing like this. Uh, well, this is essentially the same laser inside of the box. It's just that we already put the, the circuit and everything inside. Yeah. But this is what I was, if I show you the original models, they were hilarious. They were like, just look so janky and crazy. Uh, so anyways, I, I ordered this laser. There you go. That's what it is. This. Look at, look at the original beam how wide it was. Oh, wow. See. Um, and this is kind of like, first, this is what it looked like. You had to get this, you had to like solder this thing. I try to put like, um, a microscope lens on top of it, like play with all kinds of ideas for it. This is like a really wild. They make those ones at, uh, at Home Depot. You can get for people that are like trying to cut stuff. You can't use that. You can't use that. No, most of them are too powerful and they are too narrow, and you don't have a way to make it wider. Ah, so it's too concentrated. You're not going to see anything. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Oh, by the way, I don't want to waste any time on the podcast, but I just, I really want to show you how wild the 42 was. So I don't even know if you will understand what's going on here, but this is me sitting in front of my on my desk in front of the window and just working, crossing my legs, and I'm looking in the window. I'm like, wait, what the [ __ ]? I'll show you what, what is that you're looking at? Yeah. I'll show you. A piece of luggage. No, no. I'll show you right now. You won't be able to see just by twisting it. I'll show you. It's crazy. Like this is like, we're not talking about like digital clocks, right? This is like, this is what it's reflecting. Look, this is a reflection that I'm sitting, crossing my legs, that looks like 42. Uh-huh. Look what it actually reflecting. This, right? Your pants. Yeah. Whoa. What the [ __ ]? That's wild. So [ __ ] like that, right? Yeah. So then, um, so I order the laser. I, you know, it comes. I solder the thing. I turn it on. I smoke DMT. I see code in the surface. So in that instance, actually, maybe not that seriously, but maybe maybe a little bit, I thought, oh, it's a schizophrenic outbreak. M. Cuz numbers are talking to me. I'm searching for this thing, right? Like, uh, delusions of grandeur, right? M. And, I, and now I'm seeing this thing. Also, I was in the beginning of my 30s, maybe like mid-30s, I think it was. M. So that's kind of the age where it happens, if it happens, you know what I mean? So we kind of matched. Now I knew myself enough to know that can't be, because I was like, I felt normal. But it was a real possibility across my mind. But then I decided, showing other people, how did you know to get like right up close to the wall and like look into it? Oh, no, I just saw it from far away. You saw it from far away? Yeah. Yeah. I just saw it right away. Wow. Yeah. I just saw it right away. It was a little blurry to me because I didn't, but I saw something. I saw like these like like some kind of a letters or code running or something. And I was like, what the? And then I, I already had like a, like a long set of experiences that were very realistic. But that was a different level. That was like a different thing because it just looked normal, right? And then everybody started seeing the same thing. And eventually, it just got to a point where I showed like almost 100 people. It was like 80 something people. And that's when I was like, all right, then I started emailing scientists. I actually emailed Donald Hoffman, which were, I, I never get to tell him fully what it is. I, I think soon I probably will. But he just was just, uh, going through like a major, some kind of a medical procedure, and he was recovering. He was actually, he actually reacted. It was very nice. Mhm. Um, but then he was like, well, you know, I'm just recovering right now. And he gave me the list of all his, uh, uh, PhD students. He's like, here, these are the people that are, you know, under me and very smart people. You should talk to them, whatever you want to say. MH. Um, I felt like I need to talk to him, not to them. But anyways, yeah, right. Um, so, yeah, that now take yourself through writing that email. What do you say, right? It's, it's not that easy. Like, hey, I discovered, you know, code in the wall. Um, how many different did you reach out to? Maybe four or five. It was, uh, um, space, his name, right now, Gary Alman. MH. Alman. Yes. Yes. Right. The guy who studies UFOs. He's, he's a cognitive scientist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, uh, Donald Hoffman. Did I reach out to Bernard Castrop? I think maybe I have, Nim, uh, Harmain. How do you pronounce his last name? You know, sure. Okay. And I know you talked to Gamore? In Gallamore? Yeah. I think I reached out to Gallamore. Okay. And Gallamore, I actually met later, like actually went in, met. He recently was also on my podcast. Super nice guy. And, um, yeah, so these are the people that I reach sh. Maybe actually a few more. But the point is that I was trying to basically go through this, you know, like talking to scientists at the same time, showing to people. Yeah. And then I was like, okay, well, it wasn't really getting a lot of traction. It was just kind of like people. Yeah. What were their reaction? What were their initial reactions to it? You're saying, hey, smoked DMT, I looked inside this laser, and I'm seeing. No, I never got to that. I basically told them, look, I have, I have strong reasons to believe. If I remember the wording of the emails, they were along the lines of, I have strong reasons to believe I found something very significant. I actually reached out to David Deutsch, which was interesting. Yeah. Um, and, uh, I would love to just take 10 minutes of your time to explain, right? Something like that. And we never got to the point of like, I'm me actually telling them what, what is the process? Yeah. Okay. So, uh, it's, it was really interesting because David Deutsch, you know, he's a really known scientist. It's kind of like, very famous. I've heard the name. Yeah. And, and then I, and he was one of my biggest influences as far as like how to think about things these things more concretely, but still with an open mind. And, and I reached out on Twitter, now X, and then, and he actually texted me back right away. And it was like, well, uh, you, you're gonna have to make this more publicly known, and I'm sure that others can help you. But at the moment, I can't help you. That's what I think, what that's what he said, which was interesting. Like, why would you even? Is he tied to like a big academic institution? Yes. But I never told them the specifics. I think it's just, I'm not known enough. I don't have like a, like a whole track record of accolades running in front of me. I get it. Like, it's, it's not, it's not. There was no, there was never like, uh, you know, hard feelings. Um, but then I decided, okay, well, this is important. And also, I can't, I don't know if I can figure all this out by myself. I need to get people's attention. So the one thing I did know how to do a little bit is to make content. So I was like, well, I'll just make a video about it, right? And, uh, and I, it's the only time in my life where I kind of had some respect to authority because I, I usually don't have a lot of that. Uh, and I was, I basically asked inside the DMT space, I was like, is it okay if I talk about this? And the reaction was inside the DMT space, yeah, was well, just like the Frog dude appears. There's someone there. Oh, you went there and you asked? Yeah. I was like, hey, is this okay to talk about this? And the reaction was seemed to be unanimously, oh, this is not like a secret. This is just like, it's there. Like if you can figure it out, you can figure it out. We can't tell you anything, but if you could figure it out, great. Okay. So then I started talking about it. And at first on YouTube, it didn't really get that much traction, but it got me enough attention from people that started inviting me to like different events to kind of talk about it a little bit. And that's, that's where the journey really kind of started. I went to Costa Rica. I was invited to this event to talk about that. After that, I met a lot of people through that. Started talking about it more. Put out the second video. And then eventually, somebody convinced me to do a TikTok video because I was really not into TikTok. I was, you know, and I didn't know this, but on TikTok, actually, things go viral a lot easier and with a lot bigger scale. And I was, I have to say, I was actually surprised with how well-intentioned most people on TikTok are. So, you know, that the different platforms, they have like a different vibe of whatever that is. Oh, yeah. I was really surprised. Interesting. Yeah. And, and when the first video went viral on TikTok, and it went to a few million, that's when it really kind of started kicking off. That's weird because I've never even thought to engage with any Com or even read any comments on TikTok ever. It's too fast, you know what I mean? Like, yeah. And there's a lot of noise, just like everywhere else, especially because you have a lot of interactions. But I found personally the most kind of like balanced interaction of people that are genuinely interested to engage, right? And with on Reddit, everybody just wants to voice their opinion, right? It's kind of like this very opinionated thing. X is similar. And I guess it's more mainstream. Yeah. X is almost like a mainstream Reddit, basically. And YouTube is just a longer game. Well, you know, it's a longer, longer arc, right? So you have to really kind of like put in the work and put in the years, and eventually the algorithm starts to actually. YouTube, the comments on YouTube are more of like a competition of comedy, I've noticed. That's funny, you know, because the, because the best comments that people like the most go, go to to the very top when you're looking at it. Oh, I see. I see. And whoever's the funnest, they're ranked from like, the most people can relate to it, or maybe the most the funniest. Got it. So I feel like that's, yeah, you're right. There's very a very different sort of attitude and vibe to the comments, uh, comment sections and the way people engage with those platforms. Yeah. So the my surprise was that on TikTok, at least, it was the clearly where people like truly engaged in a way of like, okay, I, what is it? Like, tell me, like, I want to understand instead of just immediately vomiting whatever it is that you think. Yeah. Of course, there's that as well, right? But I had a lot of people that genuinely kind of reached out. Okay. Right. So anyway, so that, that's when I kind of started getting a little bit more attraction. And that's, I think it's around the time where Aaron Vendon, the director, who is now we working on this film together with, he, he reached out because he said that he saw some of my interactions on Reddit and he liked the way that I was talking to people. So then, so then we, you know, he's like, hey, I want to do something with it. And then a year after that, we met up, we started kind of reconstructing what all this whole thing is. By then, there was already kind of like this thing going where there was these communities and people were talking about it and people making lasers and exchanging notes. So people on Reddit were doing, were trying this experiment on themselves? Yes. Wow. Yes. Not just on Reddit, everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. And I think now the reason you and I are talking is because of Aaron's work because he put out this trailer on the film that we're working on about this. And that's when I, I made it just available on YouTube. And I was actually thinking about whether I should put on Reddit or not. And before I could even decide, somebody, it wasn't me, somebody put it on Reddit. I think it went high strangeness, uh, subreddit. Mhm. And that's when it started blowing up. It just started, and it spilled into X and everywhere. Okay. So, so what do you think you're seeing inside that laser? Or what are you seeing? First of all, like, what does it look like? And what do you think it is? Okay, so first of all, you see kind of like, kind of like in the movie The Matrix, you see Japanese Katakana characters mixed up with some, I guess what looks like Hebrew letters, with some with some regular numbers. Hebrew letters? It again, all of these are approximations, okay? They're not any of these things. The closest things it looks like. Okay, I see. You're saying Japanese and Hebrew and numbers? Something similar to that. Yeah. I don't. Are you familiar with the? I never know how to pronounce it. The KET carrot report? C A R E T, I think it is. No. So somebody put out, yeah, I'll just show you this. Oh, yeah. You can fill it up. Report, I think, or a project. What is it? Go down. Go down. No, no, no, no. Uh, uh, just do ask. Ask. Do you have Chad GPT here? Oh, he can pull it up. Yeah, we have it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Just ask. Carrot report. Palo Alto. Uh, alien drone. It should, it should tell you immediately what it is. Okay. Okay. Okay. Carrot ET report. Report. Palo Alto. Palo Alto. Palo Alto. Uh, alien drone. Alien. Alien drone. Yeah. So it's correct. Application research. Yeah. This is commercial applications research for extraterrestrial technology documents. First released online in 2007 by anonymous source known as Isaac. Detailed alleged advanced alien technology supposed to study at the Palo Alto laboratory called PACL in the 1980s. According to Isaac, the carrot program focused on reverse engineering alien aircraft to develop civilian applications from alien technology, provided technical illustrations, symbols, descriptions, and anti-gravity drones. Quote that claimed were based on extraterrestrial designs with symbols allegedly functioning as a form of self-executing code embedded in the aircraft's structure. Right. There's been, um, there's been UFO, um, alleged UFO crashes and debris that have been found that do have inscriptions on them. Have you ever heard of the, um, there's been like UFO crashes, even Roswell was one of them, where they allegedly they have, um, pieces of or debris of these crafts that they're finding that have inscriptions in them. I need to see it because I've, people tell me all kinds of things. And Steve, type in, uh, type in, do another tab. Type in Roswell crash. R whale crash. Yep. Um, in, uh, what would you use? Symbols. Symbols. Yeah. Try that. Go to images. Images. Okay. Uh, are these them? Roswell incident. This is not what I remember. Keep going. Maybe zoom. Oh, yeah. So I've seen. Yeah, see where that, uh, that piece of metal is right there at the bottom? Well, it is. It is like these. Okay. So this is similar to what you're seeing? No, it looks like in what you just saw in the carrot report. Very similar to that, if not the same. Trying to find, if you look in the trailer, in the beginning, there's a piece of paper. Do a free frame on the trailer. Yeah. See the paper. Okay. Wow. Is this? So this is what you're seeing? No, this is just the M. Keep going through. You'll see. So, uh, yeah, right there on the left. See on the left. I'll show. We'll let it play through. Gosh, that looks just like Stargate. Oh, wow. Pause. Uh, it, as soon as it came into focus, it, yeah, yeah. I'll just show you the. He cut it. I have it all right there. Oh, wow. Okay. So this is the image. Okay. Text it to me and I'll text it to Steve. You can put it on the screen. Cool. Oh, I see. Is you got like a symbol on the left, but then you have like your interpretation here. I'll just, yeah, exactly. I'll just show you the. I'll just send it to Danny right now. So the reason I mentioned this is because to be clear, it was never substantiated if this report was real or fake, which by the way, if it was fake, it's one of the greatest fakes of all time. Um, towards the end, Steve, there's more paper at the end. Pull it up right now. Almost. Yeah. So that thing on the left. Oh, by the way, I have, uh, also text you all the stuff from carrot because I have a bunch of the images. Okay. I'm just going to text you all of them so you can later look at them. Uh, oh, here it is. Okay. Great. So we have everything here. Here we go. Are you going to send it on WhatsApp? Yeah, I think that's the fastest. So, um, so, okay, you can pull it up. I now there last night after I, uh, after I basically came back into my body after like the most extreme part of that trip, I was kind of like more in reality. Things were obviously like, I was experiencing more of like a three-dimensional world. The edges were crazy. Um, but I wasn't like hallucinating or anything. I wasn't like seeing things moving or whatever. And I, I went over there and I looked into the laser and I looked through the laser, and it's clear that you could see a pocket of space. So we shined on a door, a white door, and behind that door, there was a, a very obvious pocket of space behind the laser. So I could see like a cavity behind the door. And what I saw was essentially, the best way I can describe it is like millions and millions of little gears all connected and spinning. And they were, they were so tiny, they were like specs, like static. Mhm. It was like, like a millions and millions and billions of these gears just turning. Yeah. And all connected to each other. Yeah. Okay. So there's a, okay, so I, I do, okay, I'm, yeah, I, I have to go into this because, because this is very important. Okay. So first of all, yeah, if you can, if you can test this to Steve so we can actually talk about it in real time. Yeah. So there's two things here. Let's just keep them in view. One is what we talk about, like what we're seeing inside, I think it is, which is what I'm going to say now. And then I want to talk about the beginning of what you saw because it's important to mention all the other, to steal man, the other side of the argument, because physicists would tell you, well, listen buddy, this is just the speckle effect, which is an effect that you can see, which is the same even without any DMT. When you look at the laser, it kind of looks like this glisteny thingy, right? And you can totally imagine how with a very, the heaviest psychedelic known to man, it will come to life, it will be animated in some form. Okay, great. So that's, that's a powerful argument. Okay. So first of all, this is what we see in the, according to what I'm saying, this, or what everybody is seeing, the same. You kind of see these like, uh, like these mandalas. And then when you look closer, they're made out of these Japanese looking things, which is actually when you look at the, the carrot report, uh, uh, images, it looks almost identical to that. I don't know if the report is real, even, but whatever it is, the language looks very similar. And something in the report that was very interesting, the claim there, according to this anonymous person, the person basically claims that he, he worked in Palo Alto in this lab on these recovered, uh, alien drone that had these symbols on them. Okay. And then he talks about the, so if you look at the map, you see these maps, uh, second from the left. Yeah. Right there. If you arrange them in the right map, like this, for example, can you punch in on that? It will create some kind of a function. You see how it's fractal like and it goes into like these all these functionalities? So if you know what to do, you know what they are, and you know what they represent, you literally can code a physical material to do something. So specifically, for example, you have a craft that can create anti-gravity. I'm just pulling it out of my ass right now, but let's say it can create anti-gravity with the right amount of magnetic field around it, let's say, okay? It wouldn't be able to do it without the right arrangement of the symbols of the map like this on it. Only when you put this on, it goes, ah, okay, now I'm doing this thing. You see what I mean? So the code is so sophisticated that when it's designed, when the environment that it's designed to operate in recognizes, recognizes, recognizes these symbols to be in it, it instantiates the function automatically without you needing to put it in some kind of a, the, the hierarchy of everything we do in computers. So like right now, you would have to put something in the on the screen, you code something in, it goes through all the levels, through the compilers, into the logic gates that executes a function, and then there's an output. And these outputs you receive back as either a calculation, an image, whatever it is, right? That's how computers work at the moment. So you don't have to do any of that. The proposition in this report, which I found very interesting and somewhat accurate to what I kind of already gather from the space, is that the code is so sophisticated that it can literally code for the functionality of itself without you needing to put it through this chain of commands. You literally, it just, the environment knows that it needs to do that when this code is present. So you can write with a Sharpie, the right arrangement of these characters on a certain surface, that surface will now know it is functioning differently than what it does usually does. Does that make sense? I mean, what you're saying makes sense. Yeah. I just don't, I don't. That's, that was so I wanted to mention this. Okay. Because I found this very, uh, relevant to how the code can potentially be coding for everything. Because what you see in the laser is very similar to this. So it would make sense that if the entirety of spacetime is this environment that is designed to receive this code, if you put this code in the right arrangement, you can do anything with spacetime. You just need to understand what it is. You need to know the Rosetta Stone. You need to know how to code. Okay. Does that make more sense? Yeah. Okay. So now all of that is like out there in the clouds, crazy the propositions. Okay. Now let's bring it back to the second question that, well, not question, but the thing you said, what you saw was these rotating little things and like I said, it is absolutely a strong case to make, which is like, yeah, you have this like stochastic pattern, just repeating pattern. And

It's somewhat glistening, so you already have some kind of a, uh, illusion of movement. Because when you move your head around, the, the, the projection of laser, everybody looks kind of like something is moving. And now you're on this very powerful psychedelic, so of course it's going to look like it's doing something, right?

The thing there is that, and this is hard to communicate unless you've seen it yourself, but it's the specificity coupled with its complexity. So, you, it's highly specific, and everybody sees the same thing, and it's highly complex, and everybody sees the same thing. The coupling of these two qualities. So if you would just have, for example, something, um, highly specific, but that specific thing would not arrange itself into more complex patterns. For example, like if you would only like see like little things that kind of look like letters, but they kind of like shiver in one spot, you know, then I would say, yeah, like then that, that explanation that we just mentioned, that is just like a speckle effect that jitters, and then you have a psychedelic substance. Now it makes sense. But because it creates also extremely coherent structures that are much larger, even without you moving your head or doing anything else, and everybody sees that exactly the same thing. Now you have a slightly different relationship to it.

Okay, also another thing to mention is that there is a quality to it. Which is the first video I put out about it, I didn't really know what to call that quality. So I called it epistemologically sound. Which just what I meant by that is that the way it appears communicates to you that it's real. Like there's a, there's a rigidity and insistence of itself to be itself, the same way that everything else in regular space operates. So like, would you postulate that this can possibly be hallucination? This mug right now? No. Why? Aside from the fact that you know that nothing happened, it should suggest that this should be a hallucination. But, but there are specific qualities of this. Let's say we would have, well, technically it, technically is a hallucination, right? Because our mind, our brains create this. There's like the, what Gallamore talked about was like the, the brain filter hypothesis. Hypothesis is that our brains are filtering reality into a way for us to be able to survive and get through the day and to function as human beings. Kind of like what we're talking about last night with evolution, how evolution is correct. In fact, his book, Reality Switch Technologies, is one that I always recommend all the time to people. I think it's right behind you, the blue one. Yeah, great book. It's a great entry point because it explains really well, even without anything that I'm saying, why specifically with DMT, which is what he's explaining in the book, it's very difficult to explain it away as a hallucination in terms of what we understand about neuroscience and how the brain works. Which is exactly what you said. Yes, that the brain mostly ignores information. It doesn't project information. So it already has world models. It's a filter to help survive. It basically prevents information from coming in unless the information disagrees strongly with what the brain thinks is going on. Then it goes, whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not what I thought it was. And then it goes like, there's an error signal. And then it corrects. It goes, it searches for adjacent world models or in, in the world model, like adjacent structures. Like, ah, okay, it moved to the left. No problem. So now it will correct. But the brain is not like you're receiving information from the outside like a camera. It doesn't work like that. The brain projects a guess. Work. It's almost like a, a model of the world. And as long as whatever is coming from the quote unquote outside, we're not going to get into what that means at the moment, but whatever it is that we call physical, as long as it agrees with what the brain thought it was, the brain just ignores that information. So everything you're seeing in the room right now. But this is important. I know you know this, but it's important that listeners understand this. This is a crucial point. That everything you see in front of you, if you're just staring at a static room, like if you, whatever, like this ruler over there, whatever that is, my brain has a whole set of neurons responsible for particular angles that are that exactly positioned this way. Yeah, particular colors, particular, uh, textures. And it just projects all of that as a model. Yeah. And everything that's coming to me right now from the room, you are, when you don't move too much, like just this way, literally everything, all the photons are coming in, informing my brain about what's going on right now. My brain ignores because it's exactly what it thought it was. So it just projects from the inside the model. And that's all it has to do. It actually preserves energy this way. Yes. When something surprising happens, if all of a sudden a crow is going to fly into the room, the brain will go, whoa, I didn't expect that. There's going to be a neurological, there's going to be some kind of reaction of my body. But also the brain will go, away, I didn't expect that to happen. It will allow more of the information from the outside to inform what is going on because now it has to pay attention to what's going on because it's new. It's not what I thought it was going to happen. But a brain has seen a crow before. So in that instance, it'll be like, yeah, it will be surprising for an instance. But very quickly, my brain will go, okay, I, I get it. Like a crow flew. Right. Okay. But if you have something that is so outside of the possibilities that the brain has ever seen before, like the DMT space, it's going to start struggling because it doesn't have world models for that. He's looking through all its documents and going, this is not, this is nowhere. We don't know what this is. We don't know what this is. So it goes into into this like, and we didn't, we didn't sort of climb a ladder to, we didn't like, we didn't start from point A and like gradually go get ourselves to point X, right? We're just jumping from A to X. MH. So we're not building that understanding or that, that scaffolding, if you will. That's a great point. That's exactly what it is. It just kind of surprising and it's an island of information versus versus a map of information. Exactly.

So why are we saying all this? Is because I discovered from Anil Seth's book, Seth's book, Being You, MH, that there's a term that cognitive scientists actually use that exists. It's called objectness, not objectiveness. Objectness. It's, it's, uh, used to describe the repertoire of all the qualities that a real object in three-dimensional space has. So this is almost like an unfakeable bill. Now, I'm sure soon with VR, we'll be able to fake it. But it's actually very difficult. For a good example of this is that people that have synesthesia. And this is something he mentions in the book. People that have, you know, they associate colors with particular numbers or their senses cross paths, right? So you can induce synesthesia with synesthesia with psychedelics. But some people are born with it, or they had an accident and all of a sudden it happens. And sometimes they would see colors that are not there, so to speak. Like it's just projected from the brain. But nevertheless, people with synesthesia never confuse synesthetic colors with regular colors because real colors have objectness. There's a certain way that ambient light hits these objects that when your brain is projecting it from the inside, it looks different. It doesn't have the same repertoire of, of all the qualities that three-dimensional space provides. Does that make sense? Okay.

So the code, for all intents and purposes, has this quality of objectness. You can't touch it. That's true. But that's the only thing that is missing. Everything else behaves like it has objectness. You move your head around it, it doesn't care. You, you, you're going to see the parallax effect just like you would with a regular. You even move the laser and it stays still. Oh, yeah, it stays still. It, well, it stays with its own motion on its own side. It doesn't care about what the laser is doing, right? So it literally looks like you shining, uh, it's in, in a pitch black room, moving a flashlight around, exposing things. And actually, the best description I've ever heard was by this woman who saw the code. She said, it looks like we're looking through a microscope. And that was the closest description that I've ever heard. Like literally, you're looking into a new world. You're looking into a new dimension. And it just does what it does.

Now, it is also important to mention, to be quite fair, is because even Gallamore himself, as far as I know, he never, he never tried it yet. But he did say in a few, on a few occasions, that actually seeing language is something very common. And we know all about it. He did say this. He said that with a lot of psych, we see language. I think, and hopefully he will try this soon enough when he's see it, he's, because I know what he's talking about. I've seen that too. It's not like that. And it's hard for me to point to it because, you know, Gallamore is a world expert. So if he thinks that there's no distinction there, I have to kind of say, okay, like if it'll be anybody else, then I would say, oh, you don't understand. But you can't tell Andrew Gallamore he doesn't understand. He definitely understands, right? So I think it's just an experience thing. He needs to see it. And I think he will see immediately why it's different. It's not like what people see when they're on MDMA sometimes and they see these languages kind of like moving on surfaces. I think it's actually related. But the way it appears is very different. It's, these, these languages and codes are much more kind of like subsumed. They're, uh, a little bit more smudged. You can actually change them with your attention. If you, if you try, you can actually change the content of what you're saying with your attention. You can make it into numbers. You can make it into different languages. I've tried. Yeah. But not with what you see in the laser. You can't change that. It doesn't matter what you do. I had come in from all walks of life and they're like, oh, I, I bet you, I, I can figure it out. I, I can do something to it, change it, whatever. Nobody could do it. You can't change it. No matter what.

Which is one of these things I'm trying to do now, to see if there's anything physical I can do around it to induce a change to the code in the way that you and I would agree on. Because if I can do that, that, that's it. Like at that point, you have like a level of confidence about it that is very, of a different, very, very different flavor. Cuz if, let's say I can turn on a very powerful magnet around the diode. MH. And because of the Zeeman effect, which just creates suborbitals in the elements, I would see some departure of what the code is doing. And you and I would agree that we see the same departure, either in content or in the way it behaves. Not only then, now you have a much higher level of confidence that this is real. But also you can start now start trying to map what does that mean in relationship to the code? Cuz if the code is related to what the physical world is doing, or maybe it is the physical world, then if we know quite a bit about magnetism, for example. So if I turn on the magnet and it does X, I can ask myself, what does this function that I see the code is changing mean in the context of what I understand about what magnetism is? And if I move the magnet, if something changes more, I can start literally creating a Rosetta Stone of what I think the code is doing. Okay, you see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

So what else did Andrew say about this specifically? Did he have any like, um, like suggestions of other ways you could sort of try to experiment with this or, as far as I know, corroborate it? As far as I know, Andrew didn't really say much about it. Uh, he, I, I can't guess why. My best guess is that he's actually really busy. He is building this new thing with, uh, um, with Dennis McKenna and, uh, I think it's Notics. So they're working on something big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as far as I know, he's very busy with that. Um, and maybe he thinks that, because of this association he has with something that he thinks that he really knows about, maybe he thinks it's not important enough. That's my best guess. I don't know. Right. But as far as I know, he wasn't making any suggestions or anything like this. I do know that a couple of people associated with that side of the project saw it. I don't know if I'm supposed to mention them. I don't know if they want people to know who they are. But for a fact, I know that two people saw it. Okay. Okay. One of the reactions was, I don't know what to do with this. Which I found very interesting because usually scientists who have a good idea of at least what basket to put things in, right? But the reaction was, I don't know what to do with this.

So now I want to mention that I actually am not relying on the laser, me personally, at all, to establish my claims for myself because what started happening to me personally after I discovered the laser is, you know, transcends any bound of like, there's no more shadow of doubt in my mind that this is, in fact, what's going on because of what started happening to me personally. One of these things is, well, I call it now the console, but I, I'm not sure what else to call it. But a few months after I built the laser, I smoked DMT and a computer console appeared for me. Like straight up. Like, like imagine Tony Stark augmented reality menus just open in front of you. MH. They are coherent in space. They behave like a real object. I can interact with them to some degree. I can kind of pull them with my attention. They just hover in front of me in space. I released a video about this in which I also created a little 3D illustration of what it looks like, right? And, and I'm now working on a second video with the, also a virtual reality expert is helping me to build like the more robust.

How long does it stay there for you after you smoke the DMT? No, it's, it's just there until DMT dissipates. The whole time. It just appears immediately. Roughly how long? 20 minutes. It stays there for 20 minutes, even after like the most extreme part of the trip. So for me, the, so they also changed something about my experience of the molecule too. Okay. Yeah. So basically, there's, I don't experience what you experienced yesterday. Okay. I don't experience that anymore. Oh, interesting. This is why I'm a little jealous because it sounds amazing. So you built up a tolerance? I don't think it's tolerance. I think they shifted something about my, my way of seeing the space. So this is where I want to make it very clear. We're entering kind of like, you know, you kind of have, I call it, you kind of have to take my word for it land. So I don't expect anybody to take this on board too seriously. But that's my experience. My experience is that, um, basically, and I saw this one time, I saw other people flying into the space physically. Like I saw other people flying into the space. And there's these snake-like looking objects. They're not snakes, but they're kind of like, you know, like a pipe thingy that comes on with almost like VR glasses. And they just come on from the ground. And then they meet the person that flies into the space. And they just, they basically like puts on like entertainment, like just meets you and then shows you whatever. Okay. Okay. And I saw beings or whatever they are, they were like keep going about their business. So what I, I assume, what I deducted from that is that they are basically like people. Things are flying into their space all the time. Cuz it's kind of like mainframe. And what they do is that they have these entertainment human system. So they don't, so people don't, not just people, but other beings, they don't interrupt whatever they're doing. Cuz otherwise, it's just chaos, right? So then it's like almost like for toddlers, it just like comes on your face. And you're just like sitting, you're watching a movie. Okay. And then you come down. As far as I know, these go goggles don't meet me anymore. So I'm, so I'm seeing the real space, what it actually is. Okay. Okay. And I know of other people that are experiencing a similar thing. And maybe there's a lot more that are not talking about that. I'm not sure. But there's actually a difference between what you experience, like what you described, and actually seeing the space for what it is. Okay. Okay.

So now, in addition to all of that, I have this console appearing for me that is like extremely realistic. And it's there in space. And it always happens like 100% of the time. And recently, I've heard about this guy, Tom Matt. I don't know if you heard of him. Tom Matt. M A T T E. Okay. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So he, I'm actually supposed to have a call with him tomorrow, as far as I know. Um, but he basically had some kind of a also interesting story about a decade ago. He had like a mental breakdown from just doing a lot of drugs. MH. But he was like a, you know, family man, as far as I remember from his story. He was like a, I think advertisement company, something. And then he just dropped everything because he, you know, basically had to, I don't know if he got a divorce, but basically his whole life fell apart. Right. Right. Right. And then, uh, he went, he was homeless for a while. And then he, he had to rehabilitate himself because he realized, okay, if I want to be taken seriously, I have to really rehabilitate myself. MH. There you go. And there's something it calls Upsite. Okay. And what's interesting is that, what I'll tell you what it is right now. An ability stayed with him after he completely rehabilitated himself. MH. Which from what he's describing sounds very similar to the console. But he sees it all the time. He can just choose to see it without any substances. "I broke my brain with drugs. That's pretty metal. Most people who have lost their minds never find their way back to tell the story. I was lucky. Not only did I find my way back with lots of help, I found something more, more mind than I know what to do with. I no longer believe insane things, but the way my brain works has fundamentally changed for the better." Wow. So basically, I think he can pull the console that he calls Upsite on just by command. Like he can just do it without anything. Without anything. Now, I, the reason I mentioned him is because when I read what he, or I heard him say it, I forget. But I either heard him say it or I read it somewhere where he said that he was working with, uh, Dean Raiden. And, uh, the way they tested, one of the first things they did to test what he's claiming is that they checked his eye track. Okay. And I never thought of that. That's brilliant. Because when your eyes move throughout the room without looking at anything, they would go through saccades. Right. They would just like jump. Right. Yeah. Okay. But if you're tracking an object, your eyes won't do that. They would just glide. Yeah. So if he's seeing something real, that's how you begin to test for that. So at least real for him, like it's an actual thing that is moving. Yeah. So that's one way that I can for sure substantiate that I'm looking at something real because literally the thing is just hovering in front of me. Now, I understand that it's a little underwhelming for just somebody else to tell you like, well, I'm seeing this thing. It's like, okay, but you need to understand this thing is so realistic. Like it's not like, I was just standing there and my mouth was just open and Kelsey was next to me. She was like, what's going on? I was like, give me a second. I couldn't believe it. It was like this egg-shaped object that appeared and then it opened like slices of orange, like, or like a flower. And then a podium came from the middle and arranged itself into these different screens. A suit that was hovering in front of me, a pair of gloves, and a VR glasses, uh, carousel that was spinning on my leg, like a VR helmet. Straight up. Like, just like real, real, real. Like imagine just this, you know, glass kind of hovering in front of you. I can walk around it like a coffee table. Like it's not moving. Some, some parts of it are not moving, like the main body of the console. And then the some sets of screens follow me around. Like whenever I walk, it just follows me around. So that coupled with the fact that, well, I asked, I asked directly like, what does this all mean? Does this mean you made this space? And one time they just showed me. So I was shown that explicitly that that's actually what's going on. So my conviction comes from there, not from the laser. The laser is just the only thing that I can show you. Okay. But I know this for a fact because I've literally been shown this. So I don't expect anybody else to take this on board because somebody else was shown. But the laser, I can show you and it's something that you can repeat. And now I'm trying to see if I can also create some kind of a coherent change to the code in a way that others would agree that that's what's going on.

What other have you thought of any other possible ways you can introduce different elements into this? Like you were talking earlier about magnets or, or any other ways to change the experiment to see if you can see something else? Or are there any, how do you plan to push this like to the next level? The only way that I, that it comes to mind is that I have to prove that that's possible. Like I, I have to be able to produce another thing, like another result of some sort that is coherent and reproducible. Yeah, that's the only way. Because I spoke, here's my experience with this. I thought that the second people are going to see the code because I saw the reactions, everybody would just like mind blown. I thought, oh, all I have to do now is to show this to like, you know, to some scientists. Game over, right? Not the case. Because your brain is still, I discovered that this insistence of the brain to maintain the previous frame is so strong. The amount of effort that it probably requires to reformulate and reframe the world in a fundamental way is just too much to, it's too much to postulate unless you have very strong reasons to do that, like you don't have any other way, any other choice, right? So I showed it to a few scientists and same thing. Mind blown. Holy [ __ ]! Next question: What do you do with that? What you just asked me? What are you planning to do about that? It's never like, how can I help to? It's never, so it's like, and then I thought of it. It was like, oh, I get it. Like, in the end of the day, you have to get up, you have to go to work, you have to do your thing. What animates us every day is we like the big questions, but what animates us is the immediate future. So you, and by the way, when I say the immediate future, I mean even your next 50 years in, in the terms that we're talking about here, right? So your immediate future, even your the rest of your lifetime in the context of what I'm saying now, I call your immediate future obviously the next month, the next year. People who are better at planning, maybe a decade, maybe even two decades, as far as investments or whatever. But that's about it. Nobody thinks in terms of 200, 300, 400 years because they're not going to be around. Who cares, right? I want to enjoy my life. Totally get it. There's something about understanding, you know, the true, like the deeper qualities of reality that requires this recession from the self. Like you actually have to remove yourself from the picture and try to see the bigger picture for whatever it is that is actually possible for humanity. And that is something that, I guess, psychology is not that easy to convince to do. Like your psychology is just like, no, I just want to, yeah, have a nice vacation, have some fun, have self-preservation, self-preservation, self-care. And again, it's also very important. It's, I'm not saying this in any negative vein. This is just the state of affairs, right? So then I realize, oh, it's on me. There's no like, unless I can show something that a scientist can just take, it's like, oh, I see. Okay, so you're saying I can reproduce this. Let me test this. Then scientists will get involved. At the moment, I mean, the testing the laser in a lab is easy, right? You can just put 200, 300, a thousand people. Put them all in extended state drip. Yeah. How, how do they, how do they do that with IV? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then put the laser in front of them. Tell them nothing. Right. Have a placebo group. No, tell them, tell them nothing. Right. Right. Okay. And then double blind. Right. Yep. Just run with it. Do a thousand, 2,000 people. Obviously, it will take time. But it's easy to do, right? And then you just run the numbers. Like who says what? At what point something appears for somebody who told nothing? At one, at what point something appears for somebody who you told what to look for? Right. At what point something appears to the people you told something else on purpose to throw their scent off, which I've done sometimes. I would tell people like, hey, you get, I forget what it was, but like, I would tell people something else and they would come back and they would say, oh, I didn't see what you said, but I saw these weird Japanese looking things. Yeah. Yeah.

What kind? Have you gotten any, any people that you've talked to? H has has there been any, um, reasonable pushback to what you're saying or someone trying to explain this away in a way? All the time. Yeah. And what has been the most compelling argument that you've heard? Uh, I've never heard a compelling argument based on an actual experience. And that's important. So people try to explain it away in terms that they, they simply use what they already know, which is not the case here because it's not something you know. So the speckle effect is something that people immediately jump to. The speckle effect. Yeah. The speckle effect is the shiny stuff that you see on the laser, right? Which is the thing I said like, and they're saying, so if you just, if you're sober and you look into that laser, you see those speckles, right? That kind of staticky stuff. Yeah. And, um, it's not necessarily moving in a way that it would move if you were just on any sort of hallucinogenic drug. So if you're, if I'm looking at you and I'm taking DMT, you're going to be moving around. There's going to be colors. It's going to be animated, right? So they're saying that it basically makes sense that if you're looking at it in this state, of course, these speckles are going to be animated and look like this. MH. So, so I guess the relevance of this is, does this actually advance humanity in any for shape or form? Is there something about this that we can do something with that helps the world in some way? And by the way, understanding that this is the truth, if it is the truth, is squarely fits within the description of helping humanity because if it's true, we want to know it. Either way, whatever it is, right? Um, because, you know, with all the biggest discoveries in the beginning, it's not really clear if it's ever going to be applicable to the, to our world. Like quantum mechanics. It was never, like in the beginning, it was not clear to anybody that it will ever have anything to do with our lives. But within a decade from its discovery, it allowed for some things that were very, that completely shifted a reality, like computers or lasers, actually, right? So you couldn't do any of these things without understanding of quantum mechanics. But at the bottom of it, it just looks like this, like super, like, what? Right? Like, what do you even do with that? Right? Yeah. So how do you apply this? I have no idea. But ultimately, it would have to be the cash value of it. Like you would have to be able to do something with it, understand something with it. Well, not necessarily. There's lots of research projects that go on. There's lots of, not, not as much nowadays, a lot of it's secret. But there's, I mean, there's like blue sky research, right? People that just dump billions of dollars, not maybe not billions, but like millions and millions of dollars into things that they don't know there's going to be, like, like just experiments that, um, trying to figure out what happens with things or or developing technology or doing experiments like remote viewing is an example where they don't know if there's going to be, there's never been like a proven, uh, result that's profitable from it, right? But there, it's worth throwing X amount of millions of dollars towards it to see what happens for the, just in case there's a 1% chance we can learn something about it that will put our, the United States in a dominant position on a global scale or like a global. So you're, so you're saying exactly what I'm saying, that that would be the potential applicable thing. Yeah, you're looking for it because you want to see if there's a potential to apply to something. That's, that's what I mean. So at the moment, this is, so first of all, you have to lift it from the maybe. So for me, it was lifted from the maybe to the sure. MH. But you have to lift it, uh, on more global scale, on a more cultural, general scale, and especially for the scientific. Because you might need to literally redo almost every scientific experiment on DMT to see if there's something there, right? Yeah. Right.

Well, what, so what is the point of Gallamore's study that he's doing, the extended state DMT, the DMTx? As far as I know, uh, well, there's a few, uh, points of contact with applicability. But one of them is, uh, to see if the, if there's a way, if there's a way for people to create world models that would make that space more coherent. So they can actually engage with it with a more, uh, in a way that will allow us to draw more, uh, actual information from. One of the problems with DMT, as you experienced yesterday, is that it's so confusing and bamboozling is that there's not enough time for your brain to make sense of it in any shape or form. The, the, one of the questions that they're asking, as far as I understand it, is, is it possible to send people there long enough that the world is going to start creating world models that are related to that space so you can start making sense of that space as much as it makes sense of our space, right? And then you can start interacting it with a way that you can actually study it. That's one of the, that's one of the ways they're trying to aim for, right? Um, I'm sure there's a lot of other things. Uh, and I'm sure that there's also things they're not talking about. But that's, that's one that I can think of that is very, I think, uh, very worth doing. Yeah, because I think it's, that's the important part. I think like understanding if this space is real, how do we interact with it in a way that we can actually understand and do something with and connect with. One of the most, uh, beautiful ideas I've ever heard, Gallamore outline, I think it was in his first book, which was that what might be happening, and I think that there's a very good chance that it's exactly what's happening, is that there's this infinite informational space or computational space, whatever you want to call it. And then things arise, conscious units arise within it. And whatever the local environment that they have, there's going to be a bubble around which they're going to build their world around. So if, imagine like just infinite space, right? And then there's even the regularities of their immediate space for us will be the three-dimensional space, right? Is still the local group of whatever is happening there. If you move a little bit more in the, in the, in the, in the world model world, in the, in this, uh, mind model world, you're going to have a completely different set of rules, maybe even completely set of experienced laws of physics. But if you're here, then the central nervous system will start interacting, exploring whatever that is, build world models related to this tiny bubble because it has to preserve energy. It can't have, it can't use infinite energy. And then it just stays there. When a civilization reaches a certain level of comfort, let's call it, where it can postulate more things, has more time to think about the, you know, the larger implications or whatever that is, it builds tools, scientific tools, all of that. And it starts to probe outside of its own, uh, local bubble. And in the beginning, it's because the rest of it seems chaotic in relationship to whatever is inside. It's just seems like soup, like nonsense. But if you reach long enough, you might reach another local bubble of coherence, of actual, uh, structure. And now, but it's very alien to your structure. So now you have to learn how to interact with it. But you have to stay there long enough with your attention to be able to retain anything of value that you can then translate to something that will become part of your, uh, tapestry or or or structure. So in order for you to understand what that is, you have to stay long enough there, right? Familiar with, you're going to neglect what's happening here. At the same time, not necessarily. You might be able to fold both of them into view. So like be able to interact with both of them at the same time. But it will, because your genes already have enough information to keep you tethered here, right? That's what builds your body and what keeps you here, right? But then your mind is exploring on. And maybe you can actually start evolving not just in this space, but in this space and that space at the same time. So that, I think, can actually be of, of a very interesting thing. Because I think what computation is, is actually a process of a higher dimensional, uh, value. So it's like a computation is completely orthogonal to the laws of physics. It's not arising from any law of physics. It's just possible. You can compute with the waves of the ocean if you want. It's just going to take forever. So the fact that you can send signals in a binary, in like zero one, so just an a state of two state, a possible two state situation. And if you can do it in a particular, uh, uh, arrangement, it will do something, right? And that is a very difficult thing to grasp if you're not on the end of like trying to actually build this thing or think about it a lot. But it's not arising from any law of physics. Now, physicists would insist that computation is a physical process because you always have something physical happening when computation is happening. Right? But I feel that that's a slight, uh, begging the question kind of thing. The same way that people insist that consciousness is just whatever the brain is doing. I think it's a confusion of the terms because consciousness is not what just what the brain is doing. Consciousness is the experience of this, right? You can say that whenever the brain is doing X, you experience this, whatever that is. And when brain is doing Y, you're experiencing that other thing that you're experiencing. But to say that they're the same, it's that somehow this, whatever you feel inside is expressed, can fully be expressed in just what the cracklings of the brains are doing. I think there's a mistake. I think you can say there's somehow the same thing looked at from different perspectives. But then you have to explain what are these two different perspectives in the same way. I feel that computation, the abstraction of computation, is actually something that floats, floats free of a substrate. So it doesn't matter that you're going to have a physical thing happening. You pro, if what I'm saying is correct, then you would be able to do computation even in non-physical systems. It's just a matter of finding something that can actually do the one and represent the one and the zero and then do the computation with that. So, and that's important because if, if it's true, then computation is truly a universal thing, which will also explain why after we discovered computation, we're capable of doing so much more sophisticated things with it than you would ever be able to do if you would just try and make manipulate physical matter. There's only so much you can do with just the technical stuff of the physicality of the space, right? And there's so much more you can do by playing with computation, even though you need to instantiate it in physical objects, build computers. But the actual function of computation, I think, is completely free of substrate. Okay.

So the relevance of this to to everything I'm doing and I think to what is going on now is that to understand that the reason I went on this whole explanation about computation is because I think it is important to understand that what we found, computation is an actual function from a higher space. It's not just a thing that is possible in our universe. We essentially found a function from a higher dimensional space, which is why it allows us to do more. Okay. Now, I know it might not be that clear to everybody. But it's, it's another civilization. Uh, that other civilizations definitely live in these higher spaces, for sure. Do you think they're biological life forms? I don't think they're, well, depends what you mean by biological. Not biological. Do you think they, they evolved somewhere else? The same way we evolved here? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Um, and this space is infinite. So the reason I think it matters is because it, it seems to me that it's not a coincidence that I, that I found this now. And I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of this, the things that are happening in the world right now are happening in the world right now. MH. And I think that understanding what things really are and what is our relationship to these things is one of the key components for us moving forward in the near and the, hopefully, long prosperous future of humanity. And you tell me where it becomes a little bit too unclear or esoteric for you. Okay. Um, well, first of all, do you, do you think that, do you think that it's possible that when we evolve in a 100,000 years from now, we become so advanced, when we have a better understanding of physics, when we have a better understanding of what's going on in these DMT realms and all this, and what we, you know, under our understanding of the universe, expands, do you think that it's going to be possible that we are the ones that are simulating these sort of simulations with people like us interacting in them and being controlled? So actually, okay, great, great guiding question. I, I don't think we're being controlled. I think it's actually open-ended. The point of it is to see what happens. So I actually think, uh, if we want to take on board the fact that we are simulated, and this is actually simulated space, and by the way, in the context of what I explained about computation, what this means is that it's, I always say it's like the Matrix upside down. It's not like we're stuck in a computer software and we have to try and get out to the real world. It's that the real world world is computational. It's digital. Like outside of our universe, everything else is computational, and our universe is too. But from the inside, it looks what we call physical. It's a subspace. It's a, it's a smaller slice of reality, basically. Okay. Okay. So it's not like we're going to try and get out to some kind of a base reality. It's that we just understood that we're part of a larger space and now we're starting to investigate what is this larger space and how it can be applicable to our space. MH. One of these functionalities, I claim, is computation. It shows you that you can harness some of this higher functionality to do certain things. Where, oh, I thought it was the door. Stevens, you all. [Laughter] Right. Did you leave the DMT pen back there? Jesus. Um, so to your question, whether, so first of all, that's important for me to outline because I don't think we're controlled. MH. Um, yeah, you don't think we're controlled like as if, if we're, if there is some sort of higher intelligence out there that created our reality or we're living in some sort of simulation that was created by another civilization, you're saying that they wouldn't want to control what we're doing because we would be more of like a science experiment to them. They want to let us loose and see what happens. Bingo. Okay. And, and again, super important for me to to make this clear. This is like, and now we're talking highly speculative. It's just kind of like my impression. This is not, I'm claiming to know for sure. I am, here's what I'm claiming to know for sure. I'm claiming, I'm claiming to know for sure that code is real. I'm claiming, claiming to know for sure that there's an actual civilization talking to us. They're real for sure. What I'm not claiming is that I understand exactly what their goals are or I'm not claiming any of that impression is. But no, but but I am claiming that I know that they're real. And I am claiming that the code is real. Okay. That's the only things I'm claiming. They are real because you can say that they're real because you're experiencing them the same way you're experiencing this cup of coffee table and you, yes, and me, right? Our brain, our brain creates and and projects what is real, right? All of this is essentially a hologram and that's created in our brain. Yes. Well, you, you would have that situation even if you would be thinking from a physicalist perspective. Like even if it's just like a regular physical world, like you said, this is already some kind of a rendering. Whatever this is, it's not what the real world looks like. The only difference is we can actually touch it. Yeah. Yeah. But even the touch of it is already a simulation of some sort. You, so what I'm saying, right, right. So because this is not what atoms look like, this is not what the particles and all of that stuff looks like. This is some kind of a rendering. That's already a simulation, even if you're looking at it purely from a physicalist perspective. Okay. So now, but I'm claiming more than that, however. I'm not claiming that they understand their goals. So everything I'm saying from this point on is highly speculative. But it's my strong impression that, follow the next 20 minutes. So my strong impression is that they are, yes, we are kind of like their science experiment, slash entertainment. So imagine like a TV set that you basically just can always pull up in front of you. And it's just everywhere. You can just, oh, I want to look at this patch of space. And it doesn't have to be this patch of space. You can pull any patch of three-dimensional space to you because you're in a higher dimension. So you can actually pull anything towards you from anywhere. Yeah. I think they are dark matter. I think that the galaxy.

Is their city? And I think what we're seeing essentially is kind of like we're seeing through behind the veil. We're seeing back into whatever surface we're projected from. I think the holographic principle is correct. We are a hologram. We are a projection.

What is the H for people that don't know? What is the holographic? Holographic principle is a is something that was popularized by Leonard Susskind. Uh, it was originally uttered by a scientist, I forget his name right now, but Leonard Susskind is the most known person to kind of like make it more into a mainstream thing. M. And it's a very accepted frame through which to look at all physical theories nowadays. In fact, even Sean Carroll, who is known to only interact with like the most mainstream parts of physics, uh, is saying that he thinks it's the most promising thing we have. And according to the holographic principle, everything in the universe is a projection, a three-dimensional projection from a two-dimensional filament somewhere outside of the outskirts of the universe. It, it, they came to that through basically looking at black holes. And there's something called, so when you ask yourself, how can it be? Because we know that, you know, energy is not supposed to be able to create it or destroy it, or information is not supposed to be be able to create it or destroy it, according to physics. What happens to all information that falls into a black hole? Does it disappear? Because then it violates some physical laws. Well, Stephen Hawking gave a solution this, which is now called the Hawking radiation, which he says, well, black holes are not completely black. They're, they radiate a little bit, which is what the Hawking radiation is. And essentially, he proved it by showing that you have a situation where particles and antiparticles are created at the edge of the event horizon, where nothing can escape. And the, let's say, the one coupling will go inside and the other one will stay outside. So that way, you basically preserve all the information. And in simple terms, what that means is all the information that falls into the black hole, for the external observer, will not fall into the black hole, but would be smeared infinitely on the event horizon around the black hole. So technically, you could retrieve all the things that ever fell into the black hole and reconstruct them if you would know how. Okay, that means that all information that is inside of that black hole now is also kept on the external part of the black hole. So that gave Leonard Susskind an idea of how to play with it. And he came up with a model called the holographic principle that basically thinks of all of us kind of being in this enormous black hole. And what we really are is smeared on the filament on the external part. So we're inside a black hole, projected inwards, which is exactly what a hologram is. The technicalities of it is obviously extremely technical, but that's, that's the most kind of like basic explanation you can give of it. What's important to understand is that truly the most mainstream physicists today think this is the most promising frame through which to look at all our physical theories. Okay. Okay. And, and I think that it's exactly correct. In fact, if you look at what you see inside the laser, it looks a lot like a hologram. So I think what is happening is that we are the hologram, looking back through the sheet, looking back at the source of where we're projected from. So you see the actual way that the information is arranged that then gives rise to what we actually are. I think that's what's happening. Wow. Yeah, that's [ __ ] crazy, man. Yeah.

So you were saying earlier also that, that, um, you think there's something big coming? Yes. So this is where, you know, the way it sounds even right now makes me uncomfortable because I'm so not into the whole like, you know, prophecies and like, oh, we know about the disclosure and that all stuff. Yeah. Uh, but I, I have to say, I'm kind of seeing like, if I have to look at the whole situation, it seems like it would make perfect sense to me that within the next couple of years, really, you're going to have a situation where we're going to start discovering very big things that we didn't know before. Why? I don't know if I can unpack this in 20 minutes. It's okay. We got plenty of time. Okay. Your, your flight doesn't leave for like, um, I'm trying to think of the most robust thing that I can say that is not just relying on strong intuition. So I guess one of the things is, um, it's the peculiar synchronicity of all the possible biggest, uh, coming to fruition moments of all the possible perceptions of the world, both in religious terms, spiritual terms, scientific terms, UAP terms, AI terms. Everybody seems to be converging that something big is supposed to happen soon. Really? Yeah. Uh, there's already this kind of like, you know, buzzword about like, uh, Altman saying that AGI will be real by 2025. Mhmm. Some people, people talk about, uh, in the UAP community, people talk about the disclosure, which they put somewhere between 2027 and 2030. I think it's much earlier than that. Um, well, we can, I guess in this context, we can exclude the religious perception because for them, it's always in a few years or something big is coming. So it's okay. So that, that doesn't count. Um, but also you notice this very big uptake in, I guess what you would call the spiritual pursuit. And, you know, this more and more, at least I know this more and more, uh, people going through what I guess you would call the awakening. And it's not just, you know, some broad on on Instagram just kind of like, oh, you know, now I only eat granola, like I'm not talking about that. Um, I'm talking about truly like transformative experiences that you can see people are having that are more than just some kind of a, uh, longstanding relationship with psychedelics that that that culminates in something. It's, it's they become something else. They have a different attitude. They all of a sudden shift. They, they, they, they carry themselves differently in the world. I don't know if you've noticed this in people at all. But have you noticed this people that, um, that use DMT often or use psychedelics more often? Do you, do you, do you ever, do you think there's a fundamental shift that happens in the brain or in consciousness or in, um, like, do you think it makes people smarter? No, that's, I've heard people say that. They think that's too broad of a statement. No, no, that's, I've heard people said that use DMT say, like, it, it helped them think better and it made them smarter. I think that the only thing that happened there is that it gave them the courage to be what they really are. I don't think it got them smarter. I think that that, it, it's, it's a meaning aperture, what psychedelics are. Yeah. So I think what it expands is your understanding to interact with meaning in a more confident and more comfortable way. So, so really, what if you want to define what smart is, if I have to define it, it's a very difficult thing to define, obviously. But if you want to put something that will encompass not just IQ, but just all the kinds of smart, you know, like somebody who's just right, there's all kinds of intelligence. Yeah. So they're really intelligent, like they can write plays that just make people cry, you know, like, yeah, but their IQ might not be that high, but so what? They can literally touch people in a way that nobody else can, right? That's smart. Okay. So what would be a definition that would fit all of those inside? I would say is interacting with information in a creative way. In other words, in a way that you can arrange it in a way that was never arranged before, in a way that can actually create a function that, that, that, uh, it, that touches, no, what's the word? It, the function that will allow for broader and broader application. So if you, for example, more universal. So in the context of a play, right, which usually you wouldn't necessarily think of of a of a of theater in the context of this kind of a description. But if you can touch more people, let's say I write a play that that makes this kind of community weep for whatever reason, because you knew something about, you know, some something idiosyncratic about the way that they do things. Okay. But if you can make a play that can make the world weep, you understand something about humans that is much more deep than just the cultural zeitgeist, right? Okay. That's what I mean by universal and understand. So that would be someone's smart. They can understand something about something. They can see deeper into it. Ah, okay. So what I think that happens to the people that you just described is that they got a glimmer of that this thing that was kept in them the whole time, but they never had the guts to actually put it to action. They're like, and then they saw that what they thought was real in that space, right? And maybe that gave him the courage to actually do. Do I think it arranges your mind in a different way that now makes you just like cognitively functioning? I don't think there's any evidence to support that. But I think that what does happen is that psychologically, it releases you from the constraints of your own, the feelings of your own inadequacies, basically. Okay. Interesting. So, but I, I don't think that necessarily matters that much. I think what matters to me is that these psychedelics can definitely show you that something else is possible that will then put you in the trajectory, hopefully, towards engaging with that thing more. So they can open the door, but doing the work, you know, this is a daily thing. Like maybe then a person would be more open to do meditation. Maybe that person would be more open to pay attention to he, his, on her, or her loved ones, which actually changes your moment-to-moment experience. When you connect with your community, it creates a different person. Yeah. If you're not socially isolated, you have a different kind of stride to you, right? Right. Um, which also then opens the window to a deeper feeling of whatever it is that you're doing. So, um, I forget who said this, but I think it's brilliant. I think it's true. But we wouldn't be doing what we're doing to the Earth if we could feel it in real time. So if I could feel what happens to the planet over time, or at least to the biosphere, it's not true to say to the planet because the Earth will be here no matter what, but to let's say to the biosphere. Okay. If you would feel what you throwing away plastic just on the floor does on a massive scale over time, if everybody would do it all the time, if you could feel it in your body, you wouldn't be doing it, right? Okay. So that kind of a connection, I think it definitely opens the door to that. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, definitely that makes sense. Yeah. So I think that that's what the psychedelics can do. But beyond that, it's up to us to actually put in the work, to actually do the practice. It's either meditative practice or connection practice, or get yourself into some kind of a, a, a skill set that you always wanted to get into and then just go with that. Some people all of a sudden discover they really love mathematics. They just never had the gut to interact with it, right? To go deeper into what we really are. So we can add something to the collective. That kind of function. We are part of a collective. It's not just what I make in the end of the month. How does that, whatever I do, impact larger and larger sets of people and the planet and the biosphere and all of that. Again, the opening, the opening versus the closed attitude of like, who's out to get me? Yeah. But that's also millions of years of evolution have gotten us to where we are now and the way we act in the world. And yet we override it all the time. When you jump out of a plane, you override these millions of years of evolution that tells you, don't jump, you'll die, right? But because you have certain certainty about things that we've created, like parachutes, right? You still do it because the thrill of the fear is something that you now enjoy in the context of, oh, I know that whatever it is that we created now can protect me, even though every impulse in my body tells me, don't do it. The same thing with intermittent fasting, right? Same way with jumping into cold water. Yeah. You don't want to do it, but you know the. So you can definitely override by by putting the right emphasis on things, you can definitely override your entire genome. Yeah. And I think that's what we need to do collectively. There's certain things, don't venture outside the village. That's a very deep, entrenched fear, right? Right. Not only from the dangers out there, but from the ridicule back home, where if you're the one that did venture, now look what a fool you are. We told you, we told you, don't go out there, and look at you now, you don't have an arm, you deserve it, right? That's a very deep fear, right? Because not only you're going to venture out there and you're going to get hurt, maybe you're going to come back and you're going to get no glory for it, and only ridicule, right? That's a very, it's a double-edged sword. Like, well, actually no, it's like a, like it's just there's no winning here, right? And yet people still do it. And we are the descendants of the people who only, of the people that did this. Only the people that ventured outside the village, we are the descendants of, right?

Isn't it, isn't it interesting? I don't know how familiar you are with like, um, the classical period in like ancient Greeks and their exper and the different, um, mystery cults that there were that were basically dedicated to doing drugs in antiquity. And like, that was respon and then I had a gentleman in here who basically did a, um, he did his PhD dissertation on the use of drugs in antiquity with the Romans and the Greeks using drugs. What's his name again? Uh, Ammond Homan. Okay. And, um, he, you know, he basically discovered that recreational drugs were everywhere back in the day. And he believed that the use of drugs in antiquity were responsible for the explosion of intellect and art and philosophy and creativity and science, democracy, the scientific method, all that stuff. Yeah. And, um, you know, he, what he does is he basically goes back and he reads all these ancient texts, these these plays, the philosophy, the medical texts. And by through reading the medical texts is how he discovered all this evidence of drug use and drug experimentation back then. And, um, it seems like it seems like, you know, since then, 200, 300 BC until now, it's, you know, we went through the Dark Ages from 1400 to like, uh, or from, I think it was from 900 to 1400, essentially till we got to the Enlightenment. And all of that sort of dissipated and stagnated and went away. But it, it, it feels like we were on a different trajectory in that period of time during that classical period when we had of people like Plato and Socrates and, um, all these just gigantic minds that were responsible for creating some of the things that we still use today, like the scientific method. So, I, I'm actually, I have, I'm not sure it's an opposing thought, but I think it's a thought that maybe gives a different context to the same thing you just said. I think that our minds, with these minds, are with us today. They're here. It's just that somehow in the last, and this is very recent, I think in the last 10 or 20 years, somehow we stopped valuing, elevating these minds. Yeah. I think what happens is, and this is somewhat ironic, I think that the thing that actually leads to the demise of a civilization, it's not all the things that we tend to think of today, which is like, well, you know, don't fly too close to the sun, maybe we should stop playing with this. It's actually the opposite of that. What gave, what led to the demise of all these ancient civilizations that were great civilizations, Rome, you know, like throughout, like all of them, um, is the fact that eventually people got too scared to proceed. And that's the thing that killed that civilization. It's actually the opposite of that. It's all these voices that seem to say, hey, don't venture, don't venture out of the village. On a different scale now, they're the ones that kill the civilization eventually, because the danger will come and find you wherever you are. If you're going to stay in the village, wolves will still come to the village. It's by venturing out, you discover new ways, by keeping danger at bay in a better and better way. Yeah. All these guys were were persecuted and literally executed and sent to prisons for this stuff. Which ones? Back then? You mean like Socrates and some of these guys? Some of these people. Yeah. In some cases, by the church. But in some cases, by the church, right? So the church. So, so that's exactly what I'm saying. That the church, and again, this, it's kind of hard to see because it's coded in this other vibe. But I, and if you believe in, and depending on what your beliefs are on Jesus, you know, literally executed, literally for being some sort of prophet. Exactly. So when you think of it, the people that are very much align with the message of Jesus are now the Catholic church. Right. They are the ones that are doing the burning in a different way. M. They basically, in a very sophisticated way, they say, don't, don't do this. So imagine, just to entertain the thought for a second, I'm not necessarily saying it is the case, but let's play that game. Yeah. Let's pretend that AGI is actually our salvation. It's actually our Jesus. Mhmm. And yet we're scaring ourselves shitless from it. And eventually, right before it, it becomes a possibility to actually free us, we kill it because we're scared. H. Do you think exactly what happened to Jesus? Yeah. Do you think it's possible that AGI is going to save us? Yes. Really? Yes. I think it's our only way out. You don't think that it's going to essentially render us obsolete when it, when it gets merged with stuff like quantum computing and basically we're, we're basically meaningless to them? No. Do you know why? Why? Because it's us. What do you mean by that? We are AGI. I'm not following you. And I, and everything that humanity is, is the AGI that we're so scared of. And all the things now that we call AI, they're just extensions of what we are. And we haven't learned how to fully integrate them and wear them as a suit yet. But we're basically, yeah. Okay. So now they feel external, they feel something else, but they're not. They're us. So essentially, you have information evolving from the beginning of time. That information eventually finds new ways and new degrees of freedom to operate in different kinds of spaces. M. This is the best way that information found to operate in our little corner of the universe. This idea, you know, this whole transhumanist, uh, idea of like, oh, you just want humans to go away and be replaced by something else. That's what the history of everything in the universe is. Why, why do we think for one second that what we are is so special? So it's, it's the, it's the opposite of what it tries to express. So this whole movement is trying to express humility, right? It wants to say, hey, who do you think we are? We're nothing in comparison to everything. When in reality, by doing that, you're essentially isolating yourself and you're saying, look, we're special. We're so special that we can be called different, outside of nature, saying, well, that's unnatural because that's just made in a lab. Well, wait a second. You are nature. You are the universe doing whatever it is you're doing in a lab. If you think you're somehow outside of that, now you think you're actually special, but you're not. You're just part of the tapestry or whatever it's going on. Plastic pollution, all of that is completely natural now. So all I'm saying is that that's a bad distinction. You can still talk about things that can lead to a better and worse kind of experience in a particular environment. Is it better or worse to have the whole world filled with smoke? Worse. Yeah, because of what we understand about how living things operate. And there's a much better way to operate, right? But it has nothing to do with what's natural and unnatural, right? What this eliminates is this delusion that somehow we're outside of nature. There's nature and then there's us, and we're the disease. And that kind of thinking is actually the thing that leads to your demise, because you see yourself as the problem versus you, you're this very advanced thing that nature is doing, through which it now found a way to build a, a, a bigger bridge through silicon. And now eventually you're going to learn how to be merged with it. And then you don't become something else. You're exactly what you were the, the whole time, is just that now you understand the full potential of what that thing is. In other words, if you ask yourself, if you imagine this AGI in a computer that we always imagine Skynet, right? That thing becoming conscious inside of the computer and then runs and whatever. So if you ask yourself, how long would it take it to un, to realize that it is this thing inside of a computer? Then there's like all these people outside and whatever it is. How long would it take it to do that? Well, the answer in physical matter is four and a half billion years through the process of evolution until it reaches an advanced enough mind like our own, that then realizes that it is it. And then it builds the higher cognitive function bridges through whatever tools required that it will become a collective. It will literally, like the internet, if you look at it like the, the whole spiritual idea, we're all one, right? Yeah. Well, the internet is that now. The fact that we're utilizing it at the moment for, you know, all these like nonsense things like pornography and like all this, these are just products of the previous stage of evolution, right? But the tool is not the problem. It's the content we inject into the tool. Mhmm. So if we utilize the internet to remove all this nonsense and we just use it for like a global communication system of deep meaning, profundity, connection, exchanging ideas that can lead to like larger understandings of what is possible, how to fix global warming, all of these things. Now the tool is not so bad. It's just what is our value system? Who are we really in relationship to the world is determined by our value systems. A value system is the thing that guides us towards this direction or this direction. There's no guarantees, by the way, right? But what I'm saying, this is inevitable, not because it's already bigger than us and faster than us, like Vaynerchuk keeps saying, right? It's, it's inevitable because it is us. Yes. You can't escape what you are, right? But I think the scariest part about it is that until it becomes its own thing, that somebody, somebody with nefarious intentions is going to be the one that controls that. Sure. Sure. No guarantees. Just like with the, like the beginning of, uh, Google's AI, what was it called again? Um, what was Google's AI? Whatever it was. Oracle? Is that what it was? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When like they injected all of this woke stuff into, like you search for Julius Caesar and they pull up like a black Julia Caesar or whatever, like a 300-pound overweight black Julia Caesar, just to like inject some sort of idea. That's what I'm saying. Like, how do you know? Like, the scariest part is human beings in our ape form with the way we think now, injecting that into something that's so powerful. Mhmm. It could destroy us. Imagine we're flying a spaceship. It's flying in one direction. It's flying really, really fast. You have a pilot in there that has to pay all the, all the attention on moving through this very, very, very narrow entrance of something, right? The spaceship can't, let's pretend the spaceship can't stop. It's just going forward. And that's it. So the argument that people are having is like, should we slow down this ship? They cannot slow down. Okay. The only thing you should be focusing on is going through that narrow entry. Yeah. In order to do that, you have to fully be immersed in the task. You cannot, you cannot disperse your attention towards worrying and like, it just, that's the thing that's going to make you hit the wall. Mhmm. You have to focus on how you go, how you do that. It's inevitable. Yes. Yes. Sure. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Now, time will tell if, of course, I'm not claiming to be some kind of an omnipotent being here and to know that that is necessarily the answer. My strong intuition that is the case. M. And we're about to discover that that is the case. I think that the big discovery is they were, it, there is no thing that is going to arise in the system from the other side. Yeah. I see. I see what you're saying. But it's like, the amount of people that are focusing on this stuff full-time, fully focused on it, are, there's so few people that are doing that. And the majority, and the people that, like, if you want to look at Silicon Valley and the people that are working at these companies, developing things like working on, uh, AI and ChatGPT and, or even all these social media companies that are the big, basically they have more money than most countries in the world. Sure. Um, they are focusing all of their attention on, I mean, first of all, these are huge corporations, giant bureaucracies of people with their own personal aspirations, trying to climb the ranks into a company to make more money, to please people that sit on top of this board, right? Members of the board. And essentially their only goal is to get people to spend more time on their platforms, to be stuck in their lizard brains, mindlessly scrolling through pointless content for them to create more money. Exactly. For the wrong means, like the wrong ends. So the only answer is, so all of this, all of this human power and human potential is is aimed at the completely wrong target. You're absolutely right. So the only way out of this is to adopt an attitude based on a completely different value system, fast enough. Mhmm. Even these people at the top would actually not think like that and actually think, okay, I have enough. We have enough. How do we now work towards the global goal versus just my personal goal? How do you? That's what I meant by the opening, like, how do you open to that? Right. It's a big challenge. Yeah. So now, but then you have people like Bill Gates that think they want to do that. They want the global, the globalists. You again? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And frogs are gay. But maybe we bring the gay frogs to do it. So it's right. The World Economic Forum, they want to make the world better, right? They want to make, uh, the only, here's the thing. Yeah. The, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Yeah. Exactly. Well, you, you will never have a perfect situation with guarantees. You're just going to have what it is, and then what can you do next? So I think it's just a level of magnification. Because if you think about the alternative, right? What is the alternative? The alternative is like, all right, we shut the whole thing down. Hey, let's say we could do it today. Let's say somehow we could. Great. Should we? I'm saying, I'm saying no, because at some point you will have to do it again. Now, it's possible that maybe we're not ready. And we do want to, okay, take a step back for a second. Let's figure ourselves out first, okay? And then try again. Okay. I'm, I'm done with that. That's reasonable. But eventually you're going to have to do it anyway, because no matter what you do, no matter how much you hold hand to Kumbaya around a campfire, eventually the sun will become a red giant and will engulf the Earth. M. With everything on it. Talking about global warming. Yeah. Right. So that's an intelligence test that eventually you're going to have to cross, either way. And you have to start at some point. Now, people say, oh, but that's in two billion years. Just so what? It, it's inevitable. So un, if you think that the civilization should only live as long as its star, okay, then cool. No problem. Then just live as long as a star. But I think, look at all this real estate out there. I think that things like us arise for a reason. The reason that we can build artifacts that can go to space, the reason that we can interact with this higher knowledge that some people now demonize and say, no, this is just like, you know, you just, it's for your own personal gain. It's the only reason you care about it. No, I think it's actually the same self-preservation. They're saying that about what about technology? About science? Right? And I think it's the same preservation that we had from the beginning of time. It just takes a different form in a much larger form. Don't sail into this ocean, you're going to fall off the face of the Earth. Sounds familiar. Mhmm. Same thing. Now, does that mean that there are no dangers in the ocean? No, of course there are. Some people will die. People die all the time. This happens all the time. Does that mean we necessarily, we're guaranteed to survive as a civilization? No. Civilizations destroyed 99% of the time, right? It's the norm. We have the potential to finally escape the norm. But in order to do that, we have to, what I think is to relinquish a lot of our fears and to actually connect to something deeper inside of ourselves. And yes, I know how this sounds, but to understand that there's a deeper picture here that involves us, but we're not the only player in it. So the best way to put it is like, imagine there, you know, we're kind of like just becoming young adults as a civilization and we're kind of starting to understand that maybe just banging on everything and doing whatever we want, maybe not the way to go. Maybe we start to understand why you should clean your room versus just being told we should clean our room. And also understanding that we, what responsibility is. And maybe what is the career that we want in the universe? What are we going to be? And there are adults looking at us, observing very carefully, if we are wise enough to enter that space. So I think that's what, what's going on. Who do you think the adults are? You can call them the simulators, you can call the management company, whoever is responsible for this immediate layer after us. There's levels. Do you think the, the things that are flying around around and flying saucers with the adults? Uh, I don't know what they are. I've never seen a connection between the DMT space and that space, personally. But the timing of it is just too impeccable. So I do think they're connected. I just don't understand how. There might be, there might be protrusions from this higher dimension. I have no idea. Well, there was more of it in the past than there is now. You mean what you mean like UFOs and aliens? In the past? You mean 60 years ago? You mean 2,000 years ago? I mean, uh, in during the Cold War, 40s, 50s, and 60s. Okay. When we were testing nuclear bombs. Or more so. Here's a perfect example, right? Um, I think that if you want to bring it to a functional level, the only thing that matters, what is your personal attitude towards all of these things? Because how are we all implied in this? People tend to listen to all of these different things that are fascinating. I agree. They're amazing, right? UFOs and spiritual stuff and all that stuff. But they usually look at it as a spectator. They never feel like they're an actual participant. They feel like it's a TV. It's a show. And I think that's why the problem persists because people, they're watching something. You're watching a show. Your tendency is to always like, don't go in that room, right? Right. But you, that's not going to change anything. The person is going to do what they're going to do in the movie, right? But if you understand that you are a participant in this game, then the emphasis becomes from pointing to looking inwards. And that is the only thing that can actually radically change the world. Instead of thinking, what Bill Gates is going to do, by thinking, well, he has all the power, I have no power. Well, guess what? Unless you can change something about your own behavior, how you greet, like people, like, you know, criticize Elon Musk and Bill Gates and like, and then as they're doing this, literally in real time, they won't even realize somebody's going to cut them in traffic because maybe their baby was sick and they're going to the hospital. And a piece of [ __ ] you know, that's a much bigger problem, right? Because everybody are doing this. Yeah. Right. But second ago, you were criticizing all these people that would put so much work into making things that you now use every day. And because they did this one move that somebody on a radio show said something about, you're like, oh, I know what they're up to. You know what I mean? It's absurd. Yeah. The point is, you can only control yourself. You can only control your actual state. So if you, as that's, you can criticize anybody you want, but as long as you're not paying attention to yourself as well, and how you operate, how you talk to your mother, how you, how you treat your friends, how you do things when nobody's looking, that's the thing that's going to change the world. Or to be more accurate, that's the only thing that has the potential to truly change the world. And by the way, it's very easy to slide off of it. But even in the name of like, all the good things, you know, like, no, let's build an eco-village and just take care of the Earth and just, I mean, yes, that's beautiful. You should do all of that. It's beautiful. But at the same time, the attitudes that a lot of these communities take towards things that are very hard to do, that they use all the time, like phones and like, you know, they criticize it as if it's the work of Satan, like, you know, oh, technology will be the end of us. It's like, you use it all the time. It's vilifying things, being scared of them. This is going to be the end of us. This is going to be the end of us. Listen, if it's going to be the end of you, it's going to be the end of you. Don't worry about it. How about right now, just enjoy this moment? Actually say, I love you to whomever you love. Actually understand that somebody cut you in traffic. Yes, they might have had selfish reasons, but maybe they had some justified reasons. You will never know. You getting upset at that person without them ever knowing about it makes no difference whatsoever. But it makes you feel not great. And then you take that with you throughout the day. And then you talk like that to somebody in the office. And then they pick up on that. And they talk to somebody else like that. And that's the real problem. Because if eventually, if you, if you do this on a regular basis, you, you, even if you don't teach it to your kids directly, they pick up on it, on that energy. And then they behave that way. And then they, and then everybody behaves that way. Change yourself, right? I know it's so tried. We've heard this a billion times. Be the change you want to see in the world. That's the only way. Literally the only way. That's what I mean by we will also understand that it's us. Because these technologies, they're a reflection of what we are inside, right? That's it. And then whatever Bill Gates is going to do, if everybody, everybody values something else, guess what? They can put all the pornography they want online, but if you don't care about it, they're going to stop. Yeah. Because you're not going to click on it. So it's not there. It's right here. That's the deeper point. Yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense. That's a great way to end this, man. Sure. Very profound. Um, thanks again. This was, this was fascinating. It was amazing. I'm going to have to watch it like three more times to fully understand it. I appreciate it. Also, it's, thank you for the opportunity. And, uh, this is the first time actually do. No, that's not true. I did another podcast in the beginning. The first podcast I've ever done. S podcast, which was great, but it was just audio. It's the first time I'm doing it live with somebody. Um, and I think it's better this way. Oh, I agree. Yeah. That's, that's how I do mine. I try to. And I appreciate. I really appreciate you took the time and for trusting for doing the, you know, the thing. And yeah, man, I'm, I really love what you're doing as well. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Where, where can people find out more about your film and what you're working on? Uh, so you can always go to my channel, Dango Thoughts, D-A-N-G-O Thoughts, or TikTok, it's Danny Gholer. Um, yeah, there you go. Uh, you in the trailer, you have all the information about you can donate to the, uh, GoFundMe for the film. We do have some private investors that are now interested to put some money in, but we're also relying on people donating because, you know, making a movie is not cheap. Mhmm. That's where you can find out about the movie and about more things that I'm doing. Uh, yeah, those will be the, those will be the main two answers. That's really cool. And you're actually, uh, having like conversations, like a podcast with people on here as well? That's how it started. Yeah. Yeah. I had Gallamore recently. I had Alexander Boehner, that was one of the participants in the DMTX project. Uh, yeah, so a lot of fun conversations. And I'm going to bring a lot more. And again, shout out to Aaron Vanden, who's just like, yeah, powerhouse, man. This guy is just unbelievable, truly. Um, yeah, you said he made that trailer in like four days. Four days, man. Like, we just listen in a while. And I'm so excited about everything that we're doing together. So, yeah. That's really cool, man. Well, thank you again for coming down and talking to me. And, uh, thank you for showing us that experience last night. That was [ __ ] life-changing. You got it, brother. Cool. All right. Good night, everybody.