Alex Hormozi Mastermind September (1-Day Recordings)

You know the drill. Your name. Okay. My name and what I do for fun. Yeah, sure.

My name is Daniel. Uh, my niche is I do advertising and for fun I like to play chess against Ben.

My name is Victor. I work at school in in Grove. And for fun, I I like to watch horses.

And uh we'll add something which is important for everyone here, which is what you want to get out of today. Yeah, we'll see. So So there you go. So what do you want to get out of today? Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm Patrice. I do copywriting. Um and I really want to learn how to outsource and build a team. Perfect.

My name is Cam. I'm with SAT Prep Stewarting and um what I do for fun I don't know I run I guess I don't really do much for fun and then what I want to get out today is a blueprint to build a million dollar business. Where you at? We're at like 70k so far per month. No. Okay. So it's monthly. Yeah. So we're like we hit 40. Okay, cool.

Uh my my name is Ben. I run the um the school committee. It's tutoring, SAT prep as well. And what I do for fun, nothing. Um and out of today, just trying to find trying to find biggest biggest weaknesses and just demolish them. So out of today, you want to get your weaknesses? Not my business weaknesses. Yeah, we have it. We have He has no weaknesses. I have I have no weak. Yeah.

What's up, guys? I'm Jawan. Um, currently working with Benit for Sudtor. Um, I'm the marketing guy in art scene. Um, I guess one fun thing that I do is I like to go in the YMCA sauna and just talk with people, meet new people. Um, just chill in the back. I guess one thing I want to take off, I'd say just the general organic marketing, how to delegate that, outsource that as well and to build a team around that. um where I put myself out of the business and it's people who are recording, who are filming, who are editing and making that really structured.

My name is Mason. Uh I work with Anthony. Uh we teach people how to start on fans marketing agencies. Um, my goal from here is to learn the operational structure we should have if we want to make 1 million a month with our business. We're currently at 200k revenue. Um, and the key roles we should hire.

My name is Nathan and Nathan. I have a growth operator agency. I work also with Anthony on Lazon. And today I just want to listen and to implement like two to three best advice that I'm going to hear today. And that's it.

Hello, my name is Kevin. I made uh $2 million teaching the people how to buy houses in auction by accident. And now I want to learn how to grow. Okay. So just growth. Anything more specific around growth? Uh I want to know how I can be uh I want to keep the community secure. You know what I'm saying? Because all my student know me and we are like friend but now I don't know how to be big without losing that. Yes. Okay.

My name is Daniel. um Kevin grow Kevin's growth operator. I also have my own business where I teach people how to scale or start a business with a online community and I'd like to know also about growth, how to grow, how to scale a team, how to reach and gamma. A lot of common themes on this one. All right.

My name is Adnan. I teach people how to um learn I teach people how to do print on demand. um especially at the moment in the Arabic market. Um want to learn how to grow that from 40k to 100 200k a month and then get all the processes together, the team and all of that and then copy and paste the whole structure for the English community because I've got another English community on YouTube and I want to duplicate the whole process. Um so just here to learn and just listen soak in all the information. Is there anything specific besides scaling? Because I'll assume for everybody here, you want to make more money. So that I get it's taking one step below that. Is it traffic? Is it okay, how do I get more clicks to my pages? Is it how do I convert more of that traffic? Is it how do I price? Is it is there a way that I can make more per customer? Is it how do I decrease churn? If we can segment it down a little bit, then it could be a little bit more I basically I can do a better job of helping you guys out if you can be more specific in the things that you want to help with. Does that make sense?

So for us at the moment, churn is pretty good. It's about 2%. Uh but we're we're not charging uh a high amount. So I'd like to keep churn down, but charge at least 99. And I think we're working our way towards that. What we want to do is every single month we increase it by $10 so we we can retain the people that have got in as at a cheaper price. Um and and yeah just um just keep retention um good and and increasing the the growth. Cool. By the way,

my name is Lucas. I help coaches consultants in the German market to uh book more appointments um using school and uh I'm here to learn today that like how to improve my offer. So like it's currently not really scalable because we are helping clients a lot oneonone and doing a lot of like done for you servicing. So we want to move away from that in the future. It's totally scalable. You just add more people. Doug just saying like I have this things working and making money so I'm going to change that. Like that might not be the best idea. We'll talk about

hi my name is Bank. Uh I'm currently running uh a coaching business. I teach uh Thai audience how to make money on SE and Amazon. Uh so I'm at u I feel like I hit my growth plateau in my niche because uh my country did not have a buying power. So the past year we did like about 2 million in coaching but with uh of the school but now I just got into school. Uh but then now I feel like I cannot uh get more people into this niche. Yeah. I would like to maybe like eventually maybe create more community and I I don't know like how can it grow from this is making money on Etsy and Amazon. Yeah. For Thai people. For Thai people. Yeah. I think there's still probably more than $2 million a year people who are willing to pay for that in Thai. What do you say? How many how many people live in Thailand? Uh 70 million but 90% are poverty. Yeah. No, understood. Do you know what the GDP of Thailand is? gross dometic product like how much the economy is. Uh no. Okay. Worth looking at because some like most time like the amount of times just for everybody here the amount of times that I hear someone say like hey I think I've capp my market. I'm doing a million dollars a year. It's like there's so there's so much money there's so much money so much money that's out there and it's just like you didn't like how many different channels are you advertising on? How much are you spending on each channel? Like there's so many different ways to get customers. It's like you might have maxed out the the primary way that you're advertising a little bit. We'll get into it, but we'll we'll talk about we'll talk about that. So scalable offer offer scalability and then I'm glad you're here. You come from Pilot. Yep. Thanks for making a little trip. Yeah, thank you for having me.

My name is Maddox. I won as a affiliate for the school games. Sweet. Thank you. And what I like to do for fun, I train MMA after school. And what I want to learn today is how to build a team and how to be a good team leader for those people. Team

Uh my name is Javin. I help agency owners and coaches with their client acquisition. So, for fun, I like to run. And really, for today, I'm just I want to learn more about retention and organic growth like YouTube.

My name is Harry. I help J out with the Launchpad. I also own my I also run my own community where like with AI and also networking just because I found a lot of the biggest deals literally come from your network and someone was speaking to I think like 8 figure entrepreneurs in a week and they interviewed Sam Alton so that was pretty cool and for fun not really done much done much since I dropped out of uni a couple months ago so I would today I just want to learn more about organic content also maybe LinkedIn since I've seen quite a good trend of that recently so it's something I kind of look at more yeah I have some thoughts on LinkedIn

I'm Joe. I'm from Spain. I'm here with Deon and Matt. We we help people run us to the school communities. We are the school ads lab and we are very interested in organiz. Devin and uh started the school ads lab with Matt and now Joel and uh for fun like to ride dirt bikes, do stuff in the woods. And uh something I'd like to get out today is uh we kind of we niched into school ads and to help more people. We're kind of opening the offer and helping people outside of just ads with more things. We're trying to figure out how to position those other offers if they should be kind of inside of what we're currently doing or separate or or what offer stuff you're on the back end. Yeah. Yeah. Like people need help with their creatives, their about pages, their VSSL, their scripts, their media. We know how to do all these things. flip into like you build their business model. Well, yeah. We don't want to do everything. We We're good at one thing. Sounds like it. I'm just playing. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm Matt. I'm with them with the ads lab and I like It's a good step. Thanks. I like going on walks and just like pondering about stuff. Um, what I'd like to get out of today is I think continuing to refine the structure of how we have our group set up in a way that like maximizes I guess leverages our knowledge in the most efficient way possible within the group. I think there's like levels to how you have it structured that's like low leverage or high leverage. So really dialing that in. Not entirely sure what we said, but um so it's like if you have like a week, if you have it set up to where you're doing absolutely everything, then that would be like a very low leverage. But if you have it set up in a way, so like a DFY versus DIY. Yeah, kind of. But it's the how you have it structured, I think. Offer scalability. I think it' probably fall under that.

Hello, I'm Eno I growth operate for cell and what I want to get out today is converting organic top ofunnel audience into low take a school. So convert it like more like on the like page version stuff. Um mainly like the content because pole leads feels different than how do I grow more organic. So I'm going to put this separately. So motion does that work? Sweet.

And I'm Sala. Um, I'm a mom of four and I'm a UGC creator. So I create content for brands. I make ads. I don't close to my channel. I'm not an influencer. And I teach people how to do the same thing from home, from scratch. And I get a lot of eyes on my content. I just don't know how to convert them. I've built my email list to 25,000 in four months. And I had no sequence in place. So, they're all just ghosted now. And I just need to figure out what I'm doing. Really, I'll bet you if you email them, you will make more money than they can donate. What's that? I said if you email them, I will bet you that you'll make more money. I'm sure. Yeah. And I just don't know really where to start. So, I'm really trying to build a team because No, you're good. Busy mom. So, yeah, I'm excited for everything today. When did you um So, how long you been in the UC? Two years. So, and you're just doing the school thing now, teaching other people. Cool. Well, welcome. Thank you.

Hey, my name's Adam Pierce. I'm the community manager for AI Automations by Jack. We were here three months ago. We were about 60K turnover, 25% churn. We're now 15% churn and 100k turnover two months. Um, so we applied everything we learned three months ago. We're here just to pick up gems. We're an open book, so just learn everything we can. Um, there is some specific stuff. We want to learn how you guys got 2% churn. We'd love to get there. I think everybody wants to know that. Um, we're good on YouTube. Jax kills it with the soft cell, but we are trying to get into Instagram and shorts and Tik Tok. So, we want to learn from you guys on that. Road map's really good as well. Learning from Sam, Victor, and the team. Our community loves when we say look this is coming affiliates annual get them involved. So if we can get some visibility on the road mapap and then we're also doing a high ticket so we have a low ticket offer 50 pound a month $50 just to how to position it and how to pitch it and how to upsell it. So a few things. What was your turn three months ago? It was about 25% maybe touching closer to 28. And now it's 15. Now it's around 15. Yeah. Yeah. Was it 14? Well, that'll double you on its own. Yeah, we'd like you nothing else. Yeah, we'd like to get that to 10. That's our target.

Yes. Uh, cool. So, Adam says, "My name's Jack. We do AI. We do automations. We like to think stuff that works." Um, in terms of what I do for fun, I do MMA. We chat about that later. And I play Fortnite, so sort of like destroy 15y olds on the internet. Um, when I'm not doing that, yeah, we do VI automation stuff. So, it's really cool to be back and I look forward to meeting with you guys. what we'd love can add to there like it's like I guess like top level would be like the meta in the top 10. Um so really broad like what is kind of working at the top communities and then I know you talk a lot about simplification which feels quite counterintuitive sometimes taking stuff away to actually improve the experience. So as we kind of are on our journey to sub 10% we'd love to know some of the practicalities of that looks like. Um and then also we're now launch on a second platform which is Instagram and I guess combined with that is launching ads. Do we focus exclusively on Instagram and or when do we do the ads and if so how do we actually best approach that on which platform and what is that step by step ads on IG? Yes ads. So, ads now. Oh, yeah. Just Instagram.

Cool. Hey guys, I'm Ryan. Um, my niche is short-term lending for real estate. Um, for fun, hard money loans, not hard money. Uh, transactional lending. So, for investors, um, transactionally, like wholesalers and people that are fixing flipping and stuff like that. Um, secondary to hard money to be behind that. Um, for fun, I like to play the game of business now. It's my new hobby and try to be more like Victor. Um, what I want to get out of today is we're trying to figure out ads right now to the free community. Um, potentially building like an email list or something off school. I don't have anything outside of my free community right now as a funnel. So, lead magnets off of school, maybe building an email list to soft pitch into school for a lower CTA, something like that. Um, that's stuff that we're trying to figure out. Say that last thing one more time. Running ads to a lead magnet instead of directly to a free community to build a list offsite for a lower CTA. So lead magnet to email. Yeah. If anybody's doing that, how's going if they are versus using school as lead magnet? Correct. Okay.

Sup. I'm Aaron. I'm here with Max doing video for him and for fun I work for work I work and my goal here today is to learn of more ways and better ways of serving Max with video and really getting more eyes on the product and more eyes on the Max Christen universe. Cool.

My name is Max. I run a community called school masterclass and I would be interested to learn more about like how do we get people from the low ticket into the yearly if we can have any systems for that. Um, also like how do you build out a team? If you have a core team of four people and you want more people under them, like how do you do that in the best way? And also little bit about operations and support. I do daily calls right now in the community and they go for like two to three hours sometimes. Yeah. So I need to have like a system like how do I do that. Yeah. Yeah. Nightmare. Is that it? No. But people love them. Sam, do you guys want anything?

I'm Sam. I work on school and for fun, I used to ride dirt bikes. Not anymore though. He broke his collarbone like was it like last month? The day after this event last week. the last time and my neck. So now I don't ride them anymore. You try like this.

I'm Ted and uh I help Sam make school the best it possibly can be. And I'm here to learn how to help communities make their post quality much higher and slash how to rank higher on Discovery.

I'm Benon. I'm the COO of Conceptreneurs and today I would love to learn how we can transition a COO into a CPO position and how to do that effectively. Cool. Rock and roll. Lots of uh Arlin, do you want to go? Sure. I'm Arlin. Thank you. I'm Arllin. I have five schools, but I started August 4th and I've done about 180,000 since then, all organic. And I'm an entrepreneur at heart, although I'm an investor. Um, including in OpenAI, that's our latest investment directly. So, that's pretty cool. And I'm learning from a lot uh uh I'm consuming a lot of information. Uh that's that's what I do to succeed. And so, I'm I'm loving today Um, I'd love to know how I can get my conversion up on my main my main membership. My my churn is 7.5 on my main membership, which is really I'm really happy with that. Have zero churn on all four of the other ones. Um, they are newer, but there's nobody leaving those. And I have a different I have a $100 a month, 600 a year. I have a free I have a low ticket $9. I have a a $5,000. So, I have one of each type and um so I' I've learned quite a bit through that. But I'd love to get my conversion higher. Um I'd love to I want to get a little hormone YouTube uh like plug that in in magic because and you August got 300,000 new new viewers on YouTube and that's been driving off almost all of my convers all of the traffic. Um, so I think there's a ton I could have from you when it comes to that. Well, we'll do the best I can.

Kron, uh, what's up, nice shirt? Look at that shirt. Uh, he turned the goat into it. Uh, my name is Kron Rankin. Um, I have a school community called Billion Dollar Circle. I teach people how to leverage credit um just to become financially free and the main thing I want to learn is on how to keep the the ch what you call the charge churn rate low. Yeah. And um the affiliate program affiliates and an extension affiliate as well. Yeah. an extension of that. Um, a lot of our strategy has been around ascension and you know once they get the first taste of like success they want more and we don't want the offer to be too heavy. We want to keep fulfillment great. So this fulfillment uh ascension process which is really about the sales process and having the sales team do it but if it can be you know them just reading a post and clicking a button um I have some great reps and uh managing them to be able to handle that essential would be amazing. Um all right. Anything else? Sure. Yeah. Um me I would like to know how to get the right balance between low ticket and high ticket because I have like different profile in my agency and some of them make like 300k only in high ticket. I'm afraid then like if I put them on the school low ticket to losing like customer who could pay higher you cannibalize. All right some more around this like the high ticket versus low ticket shoot um I have a question about credibility and how to increase it. So we have an SAT prep community which is basically our target clients are students in high school but people who pay are the parents. Yeah. And so oftentimes we'll get students that are very interested and the parents will be like okay what is this to look into it? They'll like look at our website and stuff like that and they won't be sold because we're a bunch of kids or like it's just not a it's not a huge education business. Did you get a perfect score? No. But we we just say we have tutors that got like really good scores. So we'll just say like, "Oh yeah, our tutor's got like 15 70 or whatever." So yeah, and they've got all these better than your kid, you know? Yeah. Exactly. Right. So um I want to know how we can increase credibility without just video testimonials because we have all the video testimonials. We have like we've helped 100 plus clients increase the score, whatever. But how to just any ideas you have on how to increase credibility? Why do you need to and how do you know you need to? Because a lot of times parents will go on and they'll see they'll they'll be like on the verge of buying, but then they'll be like, I just need to look at it real quick. Just the website, send your website or do this and then we'll send them it and they're like, so maybe it's a website problem, but but is your conversion rate even bad? Yeah. What's your sales? What's your conversion rate is you're doing phone sales. Uh we'll do video calls and we'll do phone sales. I think on video, what are we like 30% closer rate? Like 2530. Yeah, 2530. It's not It's pretty good. Um I think That's That is good. Salom. People are always going to say that. More people are going to say no than yes all the time. Always. Yeah. Yeah. Um but just one of our biggest sales problems I've seen is the credibility aspect. So I want to learn how to do that. Maybe it's not a problem though. Could be not a problem. You know what? I'm going to [ __ ] cross this out. You're not going to volume is the problem. Yeah. Volume. Yeah. Probably right. But I'll still hit on it. Don't worry about it.

Adding on to that, it's like it's not just a sales thing. It's like we want to book out our calendars fully. But the problem with us is like vetting those students out cuz sometimes we just get the kids on the call. Like you can't sell to the kid on the call. So like then they're like, "Oh, I need to ask my parent." There's like no object. Like we do not objection handle that pretty much. So like you don't pre-qualify. We do. Like we tell them you need your parents to come. But like they're like kids. Yeah. Cuz we'll put on on the form we'll like we we'll say like per federal law your kid needs to come. Obviously it's not a law but you know trying to scare them, right? So, but then sometimes kids won't bring their parent and they'll be like, "I need to ask my parent." And the parent will ask for. So, I would just ask for the kid to give the um the parents uh contact info so they could be on the calendar invite as well. But often times parents don't want to like come up to a call for no reason, right? Um and like they're busy. It's only the future of their ch children's, you know, their children's future. I know. We got to sell that. But yeah, they'll just be homeless and useless. And your kids gonna go nowhere in life. Yeah. Unless they know how to pass the SAT. I know, right? Um I also like to know on delivery and pedagogy. We know what we have to delivery in what? Pedagogy. Is it English? Was it pedagogy? Is it? Yeah. So like it's like how to teach people the best way possible so they take action and get results. Okay, we get the experience side and we are working on it. But on like the pedagogy and the course, how to build it to remove a lot of stuff and go to the essential. What is the essential? What should be like the structure of the course to make it easy for them to follow it and take actions? I remember I feel like I heard simplify with Jack. Yeah, I thought I wrote it, didn't I? I'm going to write it here. I'm going to write it right here. And there's simplify delivery. I swear I I wrote it too. But yes, heard. Anything else? Good. Okay.

I was wondering if we could come back later to ask more questions later throughout. We'll be okay. This is it. I was scared, you know. Yeah, just speak now or forever hold your credit cards. Um Okay, cool. So, uh, big themes seem like lots of team [ __ ] That seems to be a big one. Um, I would just say scaling in general seems to organic was a big one. You hit that offer thing. That was a big one. Put this here. Um, and this was kind of one that a few of you guys hit on. Then we have the conversion. Looks like we have a pack day. All right. Um, we start with organic stuff. It's a fun a fun a fun a fun bit uh to get into. So, who here is doing uh really well with organic? That's like something recent that you guys have done that's like for you. Holland had pretty good organics. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. Let's It's I'm going to write all the stuff up here as you guys share it. So, yeah. Let's rock and roll. Let's go for it. Need to go. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

So, um, just YouTube has been 90% plus of our of my conversion traffic. And it's funny because, well, in January, I started at 6,000 subscribers and have about 80,000 now. And I spent a lot of money in the beginning of the year with, you know, studios and all kinds of I had a whole team follow me and all of that. And then I just got tired of like doing my hair every week like you know doing it up doing the makeup and doing things and I just I hear you. Yeah, you get it, you get it. But I just said let me just uh I think it was in July. I said let me just get open up my MacBook hit go on Zoom. Yeah. And press record. Because I had a lot to say. There was a lot that I I have learned in these in these last 10 years. Yeah. And I did that and they skyrocketed and and I know there's a trend now on YouTube to kind of to go and you helped start that but to help go more or like organic. Yeah. Um, but it really has to be like valuep packed. Um so that's that's been big. How are you pitching school on YouTube? This is how you're integrating the system.

So what I'm doing is I have a different audience than your core audience I believe. And so I'm not until today or yesterday actually I didn't put the word school in the title. I'm just pulling everyone in based on what what I'm teaching them. Memberships, community, things of that nature because they're not going to know what school is. I bring them in. That's why I won the affiliate games, right? Because I I bring them in just based on the topic and what I know that they're needing help with. I'm known for making a lot of investments and so people assume that I'm going to teach them how to raise money and I personally don't think that's the way that 90% of people should should go. Uh and so it's very natural for me to say, you know, I so I do videos like get paid to network, get paid to eat, get paid to uh to be you. So, my the the best uh performing videos are get paid to be yourself and bring them in that way. Have a a conversation as if I'm having a one-on-one with them and um it's very authentic and and that's going to work for me, but for everyone else, it's just about being as au mention like join my community in your video. Sometimes I do. I mention it, I kind of drop it, you know, I'll say it kind of um in passing and then I'll it's all in the description. Um one of uh one of the things I've learned from Alex is my my uh description used to be like have everything like my blood type, everything, how you can reach me everywhere and now it just says you know work with me goes into like a calendarly uh but you have to watch a video to go to that calendarly. It may have a school link. Uh I think I have like I changed it today to do a school link and a affiliate link just to see how that works because I like to experiment. But some my most of my videos are not directly saying join my membership. But the ones that I do um I'm very specific there too. So I'm trying to I'm trying to teach YouTube what my channel is. So you went off of the heavily heavily curated content and just talked more like this is the stuff that's going on from an authenticity perspective. You had topic based hooks in terms of your CTAs inside of the videos. And um when you found a video series that worked, you continued to do it and I I upped the number of videos that I do. I used to do one or two per week because they were highly stylized. Now I do one every single day and that's when things went crazy. volume does that. Yeah, cuz people watch like 15 20 of my videos in a row and then buy my book and then Is it free community you're pitching or a paid one? When I pitching it's the paid one because what's the price? $100 a month or 600 a year. What's the conversion rate? Uh it's about 1% that community because I have five but that one is about 1%. And I also the the $5,000 community is it's residual of that. So I I will upsell. So those hundreds you mean get upsold into the 5K? Some of them if I think that we could work well together. What is your ascension process from the hundred to the 5K? It's very organic in itself in that um they spend a lot of time in the $100 community. That's my main one. Arland's all access. They spend a lot of time and I give a lot there. Sure. And um I will kind of I will let people know if I think that they would do well in the 5K and it's actually really really discounted. So I'll give them that. I also now as of so but like from there it's like someone shows interest in the group, they're commenting, you DM them that they hop on a call. I'll Yeah. I'll kind of comment there, DM them in a conversation. But now as of maybe 10 days ago I do calls. Uhhuh. and the calls. That's you and that's Max. I do calls now and it's I get like I have like a 90%. Yeah. It's cool how that works. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it's it I I enjoy do I enjoy the entrepreneurship so much more than the investing. So, now I've created the time to do that. Sweet. Yeah. Phone calls are fun when 90% of them give you $5,000. And I don't I don't pitch everybody on those calls. Like, that's the main thing. You're not doing that to to get everybody to buy. You're doing that to find your people. Find to help them. So, straight to call or, you know, nurture to call. Got it.

We also got some good um organic stuff that's worked. Shoot. Um well, we target high school students, which is special as in like probably not good. Um special. Is that what you said? Yeah. Special as in not good because I mean they're broke. They don't have the purchasing power. um 100% is from organic. So like we have affiliate affiliates on Tik Tok, IG get them to mini chat, funneling, DM set and then get them to um the sales calls which we try to get their parents in but 70% of the time the parent are you what what platform is you on? We're on Instagram. Affiliates are on Tik Tok and Instagram. We want to go further into all three platforms of YouTube, Tik Tok, Instagram, but every time we do that, we don't get any views on different platforms. Only Instagram is working very well. Interesting. Um, and we try to dive. You have an Instagram to many chat funnel. That's the that's a setup. Yeah, that's I think I've seen that. It's like it's kind of interesting because like the the short form a lot of the the creators on short form runs to CTA to many chat as like pretty much I mean I feel like we've seen that that theme a lot like it just seems to work very well. Yeah, seems to work for high school students. Um but this past month we used it too much. We did like 70% of them um do a CTA and which wasn't good for the longer term probably. Um, and we're trying to get more into DM setters. We're trying to diverge into paid ads to parents where it could actually target the people who have the purchasing power, but it worked terrible. It did not work at all. So, 100% is from organic. Actually, we tried Kron's um weight list method. That worked and that worked really well. It was like we phone call them when they get on the weight list. Um once they accept the CTA, they go to manage funnel, they get on the wait list, we phone set them um to a lower ticket. Our ticket price is it wait list, wait 48 hours and call them. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Within 12 hours to call. Hey, whatever. Um ticket. Someone just left. Yeah. And you're next. Hey, did I get there's only there's six people right after you. I need to get you on this. I need to get you off the weight list quick. Yeah. Well, can you send me the brochure anyways? Keep going. Okay. So, you were you were running uh so from a conversion perspective uh you had a weight list thing um that worked well for you and then you were running uh short to many chat to call. Yeah. Um forgot about this part. But we also get freebies out which is um we try to convert them on there as well. Freebies as in like free resources. Um yeah. So what we'll do this is the funnel and then the you're saying the free the the free things here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. As a little lead mag. Are you guys doing many chat through your stories as well? We we do that as well. We because I've seen a way higher conversion rate. Yeah, we noticed that as well. We noticed that. And we know we noticed that the ones that have the most views which are like memes, funny things, they're actually like the least converted. Yeah. Yeah. But the stories for me have been my last test was 10x the conversion for story funnel verse post. So I did 10 10 posts did whatever the amount of comments it was and then I did one story and it matched that with or maybe it was two stories but it was just me talking straight to the DM because stories get way more it from what I've seen like Jennifer sells like over a million a year off just her stories. Yeah. And I've been seeing that the conversion rate on those because instead of people scrolling, they're like looking at you specifically. And if you just do the same, it's the same mini chat funnel. Like you can even add it to the same automation. But yeah, I've got a friend who's got um like three or four million people on Instagram. He hasn't made a new post in since 2021. Made just as stories. Just as stories and it works great for him. I'll I'll give you a story thing that's worked well for us recently is um this sounds obvious, but so you know how I do tweet uh I do a lot of tweet content. We just take the words and then we just type them into a story on black and white and then we post that story and it gets shared a lot. It works really well. So yeah. Or what kind of stories do you post and which ones work the best? the direct CTAs. I mean like is it like uh is it like text or I do okay which yeah I do my face just cuz authenticity. Yeah, it's not a great face but like it gets the message across. But yeah know I mean when I like improvement if I just do the quicker CTA like I was just talking to Max about the same thing with the calls. If I'm trying to get people to book calls, like I can only explain it so well in text, but if you just give me 10 seconds, I can explain it 10 times better and you can hear the inflection in my voice and you get to know who I am and I just say comment whatever that word is and it's it crushed it. And like he said, there's I know multiple people that like that is their literal business is just stories. Also, I think if you if you're somebody who does stories a lot, then a large percentage of your audience will be engaged with stories, which then will rank your because like stories like it's like a different business. Yeah, exactly. It's it's I mean, fundamentally, if you think about how Instagram worked, it's like originally stories didn't exist. And then they were like, "Oh, Snapchat has stories. Let's steal that." And so, they just like brought it in. And so, they kind of exist as two separate feeds. And so, some people I think have really bad posts but really good stories. And I think they rank completely separately. And so like if someone's new who follows you, if if you have good stories, so like we recently just put that little bit of effort into my stories. Um, and I've seen a really dramatic increase in terms of uh views and engagement across the story. So I think it's like you have two ratings. Um, at least that's how I see. I think it's a different reach too, like you said, like there you potentially could reach an entirely new audience that's not scrolling. And there are some people who only get on Instagram and just just click the stories and they don't even scroll the feed. And so Instagram will show more news. It's like yeah, everything's very siloed in terms of how stuff works. The content also feels more natural on stories versus like post and stuff. Yes, totally.

We've got some builds on YouTube. That's cool. Um yeah, so we so when we won score games, we only had So we're 100% organic in our traffic from YouTube and we had like 30,000 subscribers. We got about 40K now. Um same size. Yeah. And basically, yeah, we just drive it all from YouTube. So one of the things I do at the beginning of every video once I do the hook and set out the context is I say look here's what we're about this is what we do and I say my YouTube channel my school community are about three things and I say we do A we do B we do C and I showcase the school that's part of my intro I set and I introduce myself like almost nobody knows who I am at the beginning and it's almost what was really weird is like people that pick up on things like I've always got coffee but it was it was weird they like the intro which is funny they love the intros and know what I do and when we do we do like meetups our community on different countries and stuff and what I always hear them say is like, "You're really big on soft cell." They actually pick that up. So I never say, "Right, guys, I don't I never like stop the video to say you need to go and check out my school community." I'll just organically. Yeah. I'll just interact. So let me just pull this up actually and I'll I'll actually pull school up in the video and bring it over. So it's soft use. And then the other key bit was that every video I do, there's like a reason why you should join the school. For example, there's a digital product that exists for every video like for the automation like translating videos in different languages, the blueprints in school for this. So, there's a reason on every video why you would actually go and download it. And we also give them free resources in YouTube trying to like add as much value as you possibly can do. Um, and then if they want to quicker, faster, better plus a community and stuff, they can just like slow it, do it that way. Yeah, I really like that. his his soft YouTube stuff like they'll just be in his school community showing them the thing. Yeah. So he just teaches it the whole time, but it's literally all inside of the school. And then you don't like half the time you even say anything. It's just like if they want to do it, they just look at the video and are like, "What is that thing? Give me that." Yeah. And then click. No, it's great.

I have I have a question. Um do we know the difference in churn between organic and ads? Do we have any kind of data on that or like anecdotal? I mean generally organic would be better, right? Yeah. I wonder how much better in churn. Um maybe twice as good if you Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, I I would be making it up. But from the people doing the data stuff, you know, all of us on the top 10 have probably reached out to someone that does the data stuff. It seems that churn is a function of activity in the group and engagement more than anything else, right? Um

Churn is interesting. It's like, well, first of all, it does seem to get better the longer you do it because, naturally, people churn out early. And, you know, people are more likely to churn early than later. So, once you've kind of churned those out, your churn's naturally kind of going down, right?

Launches are generally not the best for like churn either because if you have a big spike in new members, often there's a that results in a big spike in churn, but it kind of evens out.

Price, price definitely impacts churn. Generally speaking, the lower the price, the lower the churn, right? But there is like a sweet spot where you can still have like low churn and a decent price. Like, your churn's 2%. What's your price point? >> 39 at the moment. >> 39. Yeah. That's probably where the sweet spot is. We've seen like up to 50 bucks. You can have super low churn, but still a decent price. Um, but that doesn't mean you should make your price lower because you could still make more money with higher churn, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Someone pays you a million dollars in insurance next month, you still probably made more money than your $50 per month person with 2%.

But a big one is annual. I swear, like, I'm I'm thinking of adding a metric that shows you the the ratio of monthly to annual that you have in your MR. So like, is it 80/20? Is it 50/50? Is it what? Because I swear that impacts your churn because the more people you have on annual, the lower your churn will be. Because, yeah, people tend to churn lower on annual. Um, so offering annual. And do you guys offer annual? >> Yeah, but >> we don't have that many. You don't have that many, but we do. >> What's the discount for annual? >> It's like 50%. >> 50%. 97 and 597. 97 a month or 597? >> Oh, so 1,200 versus 600. >> Wow. So, it's a huge discount. Yeah. I mean, [ __ ].

Well, you know, people have doubt, they don't believe in certain things, but are there any other bonuses that you unlock only in the annual? >> Uh, not really. I I pretty much what I did really to get a lot of people to join, I raised my price to $97 and I added something that was really, really valuable that I charge $1,500 for and added it. When you join, you get it for free. So the idea is basically to get people to join and to get people to stay over time, like keep coming up with new things, new ways to get them to stay. But >> yeah, it's going good so far. The turn, the churn is coming down. So we'll see how it go.

The other thing I'll say is like, um, so I've looked at it like the early indicator for churn seems to be user retention. I it mean, it has nothing to do with subscription. It's how like if people buy on day zero, how many come back on day one? How many people come back on day seven? How many people come back on day 30? Right. And that's the best early indicator I've seen for retention of or or churn. Um >> I haven't heard this is new. >> Yeah. >> Cool. >> Because I was looking for a metric that I could use for both free and paid groups. Yeah. >> Yeah. Something that I call it the wholesomeness score. Um, something that surfaces wholesomeness. Um, and generally, if you think about something that people value, they tend to come back, right? Um, that seem that that makes sense. But also, I looked at the groups that have really high retention. They have really low churn. I might be confusing you by saying retention and churn, but >> user retention, like user engagement retention >> users coming back. You could in theory have like perfect churn but no one comes back. I don't know what that group would be about, but that's possible. But yeah, those things, those are the main things I've seen. The other one is like overwhelm. That's definitely a big cause of churn. I think what happens if people join something and they feel like they can't keep up, >> then they're like, "Well, I'm paying for it and I can't I can't use it." >> If you're Yeah. >> If you're adding those things in, I would consider adding them as like month three, month four, month five, because everyone who's brand new can still join for that first thing because it's still new to them, right? Because if you come in and there's five things, it's like, [ __ ], it's a lot, right? To his point, versus like you come in and the one thing that got them to join, great. Well, next month you unlock this, and the next month you unlock this. And that way, the people who already are in your community right now, if you make the thing at a two-month unlock, then everyone's automatically who's been with you for two months will get access to it, just not the new people. And that also make them feel a little bit special, a little bit more, hey, to all my OGs, I'm dropping this. Everybody who's brand new, just do keep doing the first thing, right? Kind of like >> for sure. So when members first join, what I do, I create a game plan for every member. We look at their credit file, >> basically see what they need to do with their credit to get to what level they trying to, whatever they trying to get at, get to. >> Did you do that one-on-one? >> No. So I have a generator, um, my guy created for me. Yeah. They get a PDF print out. It's like every step, first like a 90-day. We got it like football. First down, second down, third down, touchdown. >> Okay. >> So everybody, touchdown, everybody want 100k in fun. So first down, they have to do something. Second down, do something else. Third down, then fourth down, they score a touchdown. Then I have team huddles. I have four team huddles, team diamond, spades, heart, and clubs. >> Like pods in the group, right? So every, every team, every member has to join a team, and the team coaches help them score touchdown. So they go over, they discuss game plans, they questions, engagement, accountability, everything like that. >> So everybody's got to join a team when they come in. So it's like, what team you, they just join whatever one they want, right? Okay. Okay. Usually the sales rep, the all the reps are members of the community that have gotten results and they'll say, "Hey, I'm a part of team diamonds. I'll help you with that thing you just told me about. Join my team >> and I'll walk you through it." >> And my boy Kevin Juan created a metaverse that when they do join, you could walk to their team huddles in a metaverse. >> So that was pretty dope as well. For sure. >> Kra, do you make the the plans like are they unique for each individual? Mhm. Uh, a lot of time people join, they basically have to do the same thing, but it be certain little things that's different, but we really analyze their credit to see exactly what they need, but nine times out of 10, like 90% of the members, their credit's the same, so they have to do the same thing. >> Are you customizing that when they join then? >> One of your guys customizes that? >> It's, it's a fill-out form, right? They fill out a form and then it generates the PDF and it fills in. >> Okay. So based on their answers, it generates their >> Right. But there's a step in the middle. >> Yeah. Based on their, yeah. Their answers, >> super clever. >> This the specialist will look at their answers, which are like three answers, and the specialist will say, "Okay, I recommend this, this, and this." Now, to be clear, it's designed >> and they also look at the credit, right? But it, the real, the process is really designed to hit the little upsells and other price bumps that are needed for them to actually be successful. >> So there's not too many variations. >> Not at all. Well, we are coming out with a fast game plan. It's probably in November sometime, December maybe. But for everybody that had a game plan >> for a 5K upsell, I'm guessing? >> Correct. VIP. >> Yeah. >> And what percentage of your new members do this game plan? And is it like your very first CTA when they join? >> A lot of my old members don't know a game plan exists, right? So right now, I probably got to do like a blast DM with their school to let people know or reach out to them, be like, hey, don't forget to get your game plan. That right, that that will really reduce the retention, however you said, and um, get people to follow their game plan, join the team huddles, and stay on board because I just released the game plan like 30 days ago, but I had members since February when I first started the school. So yeah, that's the thing. So I have to say maybe 50%, but the goal is to get at least over 80, 90%.

That's interesting because I'm I'm sort of wondering now actually, I'm hearing this like because one of our first steps is do an intro post because we get so many people that comment on that and they feel this really great sense of like being welcome. So we're trying to do like one action, one touch point and where we introduce that. And actually, I guess there's a question about how often should you be mass DMing everybody in the group because that's probably like, you know, is it does it function as a kind of quasi mailing list in some respects? Like should you actually like every week should there be a new message like >> every week for sure. >> I would for sure. >> But to be clear, we're touching them a lot. Like a lot. They're not technically, yeah, they don't. Yeah. Pause, right? They don't. They're like, "Oh, this, I didn't get the DM." And so we're like, we're we're hitting them. We're texting and calling and making sure that we make the connection. >> And you're also emailing them as well at the same time. They get emails every day. >> Yeah. >> Telling them to rejoin the group because we haven't segmented the. >> So your traffic is coming from where? >> Instagram. >> Okay. So you're Instagram and then you go mini chat tunnel or do you >> most definitely go mini chat tunnel. >> Okay. So mini chat tunnel, free thing that gets them to engage and then you work them to send them to the group. >> No freebie. They they know the price up front and they're said they're told to go get this special thing. >> Okay. >> We're not selling the group. We're selling the free service they get when they join the group. >> Yeah. Sure. And are you going call to group or group like straight to about page? >> So every every page of the funnel, every step of the funnel at the very bottom says just join the group now. >> But on the first page is a opt-in and it's like, hey, join the wait list. >> And then the next page is skip the line for a dollar. >> We got a we got a thing going on. Yeah, it's kind of unique. >> It's super unique. But the conversion rate is 50% on the opt-in and 60% for people paying the dollar. >> And everyone who pays the dollar is angry that we haven't called them yet. >> Angry? >> Hey, what's going on? Am I getting this? Yeah. >> And then we text them saying, "You got to join the group first." Or a sales rep will say, "Hey, do you have questions?" It's you got to be in the community to get the the thing. >> So IG, right? >> Mhm. >> And then they DM. >> Okay. That's a mini chat, right? >> Yeah. And we're experimenting today with removing the M chat thing to just send them to the uh page opt-in. >> Okay. So, mini chat. And then in mini chat, you send them the link. >> Correct. >> Right. To the funnel. So, you've got opt-in. >> Yep. >> On funnel. Okay. And then thank you page. >> Yep. >> Is uh skip. So, wait. Opt-in is opt-in for the wait list. >> Yeah. That's just opt-in, right? But >> it says wait list here. >> It says wait list >> on this one. Okay. Yep. And it says this Friday and we the date is the this date and the timer is counting down. >> Whatever day it is is the day that it >> No, it's actually Friday. >> Because we actually changed the price. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Got it. >> Okay. And so, uh, skip the skip the, uh, skip the line for a buck. >> For a dollar, right? >> Okay. >> So, 60% So, 60, if 100 people opt in, 60% will pay a dollar. So 100 clicks, 50 opt in. Of the 50 that opt in, 60% of those, so 30. >> Yep. >> Okay. So 30 people pay a buck. Got it. >> And then the final page, >> which is absurd, by the way. A 30% like if you just had a 30% conversion on a landing page for a dollar, it's still insane. >> The reps, my biggest thing is getting the like we can't call. We're only focused on calling the dollar people. We can't even get to call the waitlist people because it's >> Yeah. >> Well, they're on the waitlist. You know, they're waiting. They're waiting. >> Yeah. >> And they can skip if they just paid a dollar. >> They can skip the whole thing if they just join the group now and follow the instructions. >> Okay. And so after the skip this, it just says join. >> No, we have another one that say um bypass the the line like just go straight in. Just go straight in. >> Yeah. >> So, okay. Hold on. So, skip the wait list for a dollar. >> Yeah. >> And then skip the skipping. >> Yeah. The button that's on all the pages in the footer that says just join the group is emphasized on the last thank you page saying, look, just join the group. Here's a screen recording of how you do it. >> And join for whatever it's, what's the price point? >> 97. >> 97. Okay. >> Okay. >> That's crazy. >> What's the conversion here? >> Uh, one out of four. >> One out of four of these people? >> So, the people who make it through, if four people paid a dollar and the rep calls all four, one of one to two of them already joined the group. >> Oh, interesting. Yeah. >> So, of the 30, so we had 100 clicks, 50 opt-in, 30 pay the buck. >> Mhm. >> Uh, eight of them have already joined. >> Mhm. >> Of the dollars. Okay, cool. >> Which should be 25%. >> You said eight of the 20. I think it's more like 40, 40%. >> It it's honestly higher because the reps, these the reps are on two to three minute, four-minute phone calls. Like we expect them in an hour to close one every 15 minutes. Like if you're lazy, you know, like >> these are enrollment calls. We get all that sales training out your head. You don't need to pain and all that. So >> yeah, enroll them. Like keep the scarcity urgency high and enroll them right away. >> So the reps, what we had to do is verify their deals because they're calling people who already were like already about to join and stuff. So >> you know, it's a really smooth sales process. >> Cool. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, I haven't heard of this. This is new. Cool. Very cool. There's a gym that does the same thing with the wait list. You join the wait list and they call you two days later and it's a $1,000 a month like super exclusive gym. And you know what? One person just canceled and we keep it capped. >> Mhm. >> Uh >> I will say this, if I was like selling the services myself, I would close 100%. >> Yeah. When we assign the leads with the expectation is you close all the leads I sent you. Either you didn't connect the call or you like you should not not close the the sale. >> Yeah. And you should get a referral. A family member. That's another thing we emphasize. They should be bringing a referral >> every single time. >> A lot of referrals. >> A lot of referrals. It happens. >> What is your turn red cards? >> 33%. [Music] >> Yeah. Because you're like, "Hey, if you can get $100,000, wouldn't you want to get 100,000 on somebody else's credit? Get $200,000. Sweet."

I want to say something about the churn. >> Okay. >> It's okay. My English is a little bit short, but I will try my best. >> I like the shortcut with everything now. >> I love it. And what I do in my community that I where I have very low short like 10 in the whole life of community is that I identify what they want from me, you know, and I give it that every month. For example, they want to buy houses in auction, and I give us I give them a clear list of clear houses that you can buy, only seeing the houses, so they don't have to do the homework. And I do I give them that every months and they don't leave the the the community. That's my easy way to to have what I want, keep it, you know. By the way, I give um uh content and I do a call every every Tuesday and I have another call with the pro every Monday. But what I think keep my community everybody in my community is the list, you know, and I try to get >> So you send them a list of deals. The lease of deal of no, it's for example, if in Lousern County there is an auction, I get out the lead and the people that work with me do the whole home homework. >> Yeah, so your team does the homework, right? And then you say, these are all good deals. >> This is all the good deals and you just have to go in person and see the houses. >> And that's the way I I keep it. >> Yeah, so, um, it's interesting you bring that up. So one of the things that I think made Jim Launch or makes Jim Launch such a such a successful business that is in the media space is, um, basically what you kind of teased at, which is having some sort of consumable media. And so what I mean by that is, uh, because we serviced all one type of business, we could spend whatever 50 grand testing ads across 10 or 20 representative markets of gyms and then take the winners of those ads that we had made and then just hand them to the thousand gyms that were paying us. But it cost us nothing extra. But every month they have to use up those ads because then they fatigue and then they have to have new ads for their local market. And so like if you can find like the same thing, like deals change. So if you can find something that's kind of consumable, something that like because fundamentally, like this is where education versus like if someone learns how to do math the day before they learn how to do math, it's incredibly valuable. The day afterwards, it means nothing to them, right? And so it's like, what's are are there components of your offer that you can emphasize that are valuable every month? So it's like it's the same concept. It's deals. It's ads that we'd make, but because they needed them again, they like you you need to refresh them. So if you can find something that you can kind of refresh in terms of your product, it will make it significantly stickier. And I mean, for us, when we surveyed our community, like the number one thing bar none was just more ads that always work. That was it. Because for a gym owner, for example, and probably for somebody looking for real estate, the amount of work it takes to test ads and make ads, script ads, test ads, and then lose the money on ads that don't work compared to, uh, just taking lottery tickets that have already been, you know, chosen. They're just scratch-off winners. It's like, dude, just cash them in. They're like, "These ads already work." Um, same thing. It's like, "Dude, these deals are already good. Just cash them in." Like, just go see the property. Like, you take 90% of the work out of it. And so, it makes sense that that's a very valuable thing for the community. >> Yeah. >> Lazy. >> How How did you quantify that value? >> Huh? >> How did you quantify the value? Did you always give like a case study of, hey, this is the ad we ran and this is what happened with it? Oh, I mean, so ours were all business owners, to be clear. And so they all had gyms and employees. So it's a little probably higher level avatar in terms of who we're talking about. And so they already, so like if you think about like this, they bought what they paid a lot of money at for upfront was learning the system. And so it's like my system made significantly more money for gyms. And so then that's the machine, but you have to feed the machine. And the thing you feed the machine changes every month. So, it's like you pay one time for a really expensive thing, which is the the model, and you learn it. You learn the sales scripts, you learn the offers, you learn how it all works. But then every month, the thing that you need is you need ads to feed it. And so, they knew what an ad that one was worth because if they were going to get leads for $10, they know that they can on average make a hundred bucks a lead. And so, they're like, they're getting 10 to one immediately. >> So, to be clear, your ads that you shared with people weren't always necessarily vetted, even though you're >> No, they were vetted. I would spend $50 grand a month testing them and I would tell them, okay? >> And so it's like, hey, you pay me four grand, >> I spend 50, I hire models, which you're not going to hire. We script it. We record it. We test it. We spend 50 grand testing the ads in 10 to 20 representative locations. So we take some shitty markets, some uh, you know, Asian markets, white markets, Latino markets, uh, Canada, Mexico. We test across and we'd say, "Okay, this was the highest performing ad across all locations. This is second. This is third." By the way, in some of these markets, this one did better. And so then we just give them that and then if Yeah. Well, they'd get a drive, but Yeah. Exactly. Okay. >> And that was it. And so like every month it was like, "Sure, all this other stuff's great, Alex, but if you can just feed me the the ads that I need to run that I know are already going to be winners." Because if you run a campaign on ads that don't work, it's like you just literally just flush money down the toilet. So, not only did it save them money on ads that weren't going to work, it saved all the work of even making ads to begin with, but that only works when you have customers who have a very similar problem. So, all of his customers, if you think about what his his thing is, it's lead genen just for somebody who does who does deals, right? It's lead genen. I was doing lead genen for weight loss, but it was the it was the it was the thing that they always had to change every month. >> Yeah. I think I think our way of keeping because I think if they got a thing in the mail like um I was on Frank Kern's thing this one time $400 a month and he sent you stuff. >> Oh, it's the best. >> Yeah. And >> I love that thing. >> You couldn't cancel because you'd miss the next thing in the mail. >> Yeah. So >> I love physical. >> Yeah. Just to add on to that um and to what uh Kevin has said about reducing churn, we offer our community niches every single day. So in prints on demand, there's always niches every single day that come up. >> So that keeps them from cancelling because they they don't want to do the homework. They don't they don't have time. >> Sure. >> They want to get in, find the niche, make a design for it and upload. So that really reduces the time um from their part. So they just get it done and ready. But at the same time, when they upload and they they get sales, >> we encourage them to up um, you know, post it in the win section. >> And everybody goes to the win section and they get really hyped up. Oh my god, then I just shared this niche and I got sales from it and then everybody goes crazy. So I think um, it's it really validates the whole thing that this this thing actually works and new people that come in, they go, "Oh my god, yeah, this this really works. So, I better stay and learn how this really works properly. Um, and we we clear on the motivation every single day. We get the motivational posts. We do posts with with people that make a lot of money from the community. So, it's a like, you know, get other people hurt and um, you know, provide them with a good role model to follow that kind of thing. >> So, we we try and play on that every single day like we don't take it for granted. >> Yeah. >> I think that's what helps. How many calls do you do a week in your group? >> Every every day there's a call. >> Interesting. Yeah. I have noticed that one of the things that groups that have high member retention is they have quite a lot on the calendar. And so like if you have stuff on the calendar, generally people keep coming back and then if they keep coming back, they tend to turn less. So like >> but that's not guaranteed. It's just it's something I noticed. >> Yeah. >> But I do think there there's something interesting with that kind of common theme of >> is there is there some sort of work is there anything that's dynamic about whatever you do like whatever it is that you teach. Is there something that changes? So it's like is it there are new problems that come out every x period of time? >> Um, and like you're doing homework for them and then just giving them the output. So it's like the easy button. It's like I did all this homework on the niches that are emerging right now. Here it is. You're doing all the homework on, you know, you scraped all the the lead sources and you're like, here are the deals. Just go look at them. Um, like, you know, obviously we did the the ads thing. Like there's if you can find that thing, I'm really like >> that changes all the time that is specific to them. So, for example, we also do 24-hour support. I've got a team that works 24 hours. >> Uh, I've got someone that like literally stays up the whole night and just answers questions. So, that really keeps that touch. >> You find another time zone person. No, actually he he loves he's like a a bat. He loves to work at night. >> So I was like, "Perfect. Great." >> Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. So and and also things like encouraging them to motivate each other like the whole community to motivate each other. We created the culture of sharing. >> So not only you're there to learn, but you're all also to share and help other people to >> to achieve their goals as well. >> Yeah. That's probably the thing that impacts it the most is the culture. Like a feeling of belonging, like you found your people, you you're with your friends kind of thing. >> We've literally got people saying I pitch Tik Tok, YouTube, Instagram. The this community is literally my whole social media. >> They come and comment every single day. >> We got like we got someone called Lman. Yeah. >> Every single post anybody posts, he's the first person to comment. I'm like, "Dude, you're working for me without working for me." So, >> I I said to him, "Look, you're going to join my team." He's like, he's so over the moon. >> He said, "I'll do it without without you paying me any money." I'm like, "No, I'm I'm going to pay. Doing a really incredible job." >> Giveaways, >> huh? >> Giveaways. >> Uh, no, not at the moment. We're keeping that curve just in case. >> Yeah, giveaways just always crush. What were you saying, Kevin? >> Uh, no. I said that simplifying the things I I believe the my key is I find I I try to find something that my student need to do and I do it for them. You know what I'm saying? Something that I can be better than than doing it. I give it you to you already done and >> that's that's the way I like to >> keep it. >> It'd be worth brainstorming for your own businesses like what is that dynamic thing that changes on a regular basis? Like is it niches that are you know what like here's a a list of e-commerce companies that want UGC stuff like and you just send them that list every month or whatever. Um, and that might be something that I'm just thinking out loud. And so like with AI, it's like here's you probably have more than enough you could do for that. Like if like here's 10 more tools that are AI, you like um, but like it probably be one step past that I think for you because yours is like it it you could make list on list, you know what I So it's like can is there is there one more step of work that you could do after that that would make it >> I'm I'm thinking like case studies of how people have made money selling to agency this month like what are the tools what are the services what's the funnel surprise >> like the playbook like a new like this is a playbook for this this month >> yeah take all the wins from the group and then just share it for us something >> yeah I dig that >> it's one small question actually we I think we have avatars in different stages people who are beginning of the journey want to climb the mountain through to like businesses that are very successful. So one of I wonder is do we u I don't want to over complicate it. That's the thing. Do we kind of have two resources or do we kind of just go with what we think would serve the majority of it >> and have like some sort of high ticket thing. Is that what you're thinking? >> Yeah. Well, I'm thinking, yeah, because we we have a couple different avatars, and I think they would they get value from different there's some stuff they all have in common, which maybe that's the answer we lean into that, but we have Yeah. Quite a variety of different people in their businesses. >> What did you do to get your churn from 25 to 10 to 15? That's probably a good thing to talk about. >> Yeah. Um >> because it's a meaningful decrease. >> Yeah, it's huge. >> Many small actions that have compounded over time. >> No way. >> Well, let's hear them. Let's Let's write them down. >> There wasn't one thing. That's crazy. All right, let's start. >> I think annual, to be fair, if there was one. Annual's obviously helped. >> What's your discount for annual? >> It's only 17% actually. But >> yeah, it's just buy 10 get two. >> But we get exclusive content and >> so you have a bonus with it too. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we'll add to that every time. The profile feature unlocks the biggest though. They love that. >> Kron, you should hear that one. >> Missed it. All right. >> Onboarding is like just a hack. Um, what >> well, I think the annual thing is so simple, but like it would work for everyone is >> yeah, you're like 17% that's two months off, right? So if it's 99 a month, that's $999 a year and some content bonuses. What are your bonuses for annual? >> Um, so the we do specific content, so like a webinar on how I scale from X to Y in two different businesses, like play-by-play, and then also like >> just one webinar or a consistent thing? >> So I basically I want to recycle it twice a month is our strategy. So I want They have lots of free visual content, but then like I've done a specific training for everybody on and we call it hashtag team. So we make it kind of like a bit of a movement within the movement. >> Uhhuh. >> To push. >> Are we talking about a calendar event or classroom content? >> It's a it's a classroom. It's like something you could watch. >> Okay. >> It's something that you could watch. >> And you're getting a lot of people take annual once they're already a monthly member. Um, weirdly enough, we don't get many people signing up to annual at the front end, but it's like when we drive it and push it and say, "Hey, we've got this really cool resource that you want unlock." Um, and a cool cool profile for that. Actually, I think has driven most of our >> So, people upgrade after the fact. >> I get a lot of sign up on the on board. So, within the first week, if I get them a win on the call, a lot of people just go settings, change it, cool, I've done it right now. So, when they see the value after an hour on board, I get a lot of signups there. >> And you're onboarding everyone the first week. I do them daily. It's that I can't I don't say you have to join, but I do an intro post. Join me on an call. They usually turn up the next one. I do it every day and then I try and >> You just do group? >> Just group call. It's not Yeah, not one-to-one. We've got about 2k people in the group. So, okay. >> B2 man. >> No, you're good. >> What was this profile image? His community gets well? >> Yeah. So, every level from level five onwards, we unlock a specific avatar. Sort of like trailblazers, like red and dragon fire. Then we've got AI wizards and so you kind of like have a symbolic like and it looks really cool actually, like and then we made one for annual as well, which looks really epic because you can see who's got annual and stuff, but weirdly enough, it's like that's kind of like a bit. They love it, but most importantly, of course, you unlock the unlock the avatars deep in the group. And if you go on our leaderboard, every person has the profile picture but lots of fire emojis, lots of the profile pictures. So they got a cool story, goes deep. >> Yeah, it's funny. So, couldn't someone like take the profile picture and just make it themselves? >> Well, not really. I mean, like if you knew how to like remove backgrounds from images and stuff, but it's all consistent. People actually use it on their Instagram profiles, their WhatsApp photos. They really like the the images. >> What's your group called? >> Say Automations, AI Automations by Jack. >> Yes. >> The other cool thing about his profiles is all of his members that are in other groups. So, like one of his guys is in the 100 and I know that they're in his community because of that because it's cross-platform, right? You have those profile pictures, you always know which is interesting. >> That's cool. I love that. So this was one big thing with many small pieces to it. What else was there? >> Yes. >> Um, well, we do daily calls as well. We have two calls a day, the onboards and support, and then we have like a big event on Friday, which is our make money day. >> Did you start doing that after the turn was high? >> Absolutely. Yeah. We >> I'm saying this was turn was at 28. You started doing two calls per day, turn went down. Okay. >> We are toying between simplification and like adding more value. So we we don't we don't have we definitely haven't hit the sweet spot. So I I want to know how what's the optimum number of calls? What's the optimum classroom look like? So it may not be optimum to a day. We might reduce it again. But yeah, >> I think it's helped daily support at least. >> I would say frequent >> publicly on the calendar. >> Yes, it's not like a Calendly. Yeah. You just drop in and we have people turn up like four times sometimes, you know, four or five times is coming, sitting there on board. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then I I think like the kind of dirty unpleasant stuff that you probably wouldn't want to hear about is um replying to people, messaging to them, celebrating success, taking interest in their lives, making them feel welcome, >> all the important things. >> Just all the the boring stuff. Yeah. >> Yeah. Outreach to counselors and decliners. I do that like every day. So I reach the cancellations >> the client is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We also do personalized limbs as well. >> Yeah. It's all loable. >> Did the outreach to counselors work? >> The decliners works really well. And to be fair, the counselors, particularly for because we were losing a lot of our high-level people, a couple of people. There's not a single one that's lost. So I say, "Hey, what? We can't lose you, man." And they they stay. Yeah. So that that really >> dude, just keep paying. They're like, "Okay." But to be fair, that was probably a result that they were a bit lost and then one outreach and then they're back in. So, um, they they really work actually. Do you know what's really funny as well? Once they once they do an intro post, they're really likely to stay for a while because you get this rush of everyone, no way, I live there. I'm doing a similar thing. So, if we can get them into intro post, they crush it. So thing we noticed is that actually funny your point, if they my joined another group actually to see what the experience is like, your interest I feel highest when you join. If you don't get the group straight away, you go into this like cryogenesis and you never return. So we'll notice like some people, they'll you can see their like activity scores, right? They're green on day one and then 20 like 37 days later, they can cancel. They never actually got into the system. And one of my takeaways from to other groups that we need, you know, this first step is so important. And we almost see, we're looking at churn now in terms of like, you've got the month one which is getting to month two, and then we have this kind of three to six month period where it's a slightly different problem, and then I think we're looking at one of them after that. >> So what what are the components of your intro post? >> We just say we basically say, hey, introduce yourself, what you're about, >> what you want to get out of the group. And then everyone just floods in and it it's really simple actually, to be fair, but >> I comment on every single one. Join me on a call. And they like maybe 50%. >> Yeah. So because I secretly could be intro post then it would be on boarding call as a step one, step two. >> Do you let do you like um get them encourage them to do their own post as a introduce yourself or like they're commenting on an introduce yourself thread? >> They must do their own post. >> I see. >> Yeah. Because the problem with having it on a post is it just gets lost in the noise and it's just way too complicated. You have an own post for an own person and they'll have like 20 people that celebrate them and like engage with them and it's a real like energy boost. >> So it has to be that. >> And you found that people that do those stick. >> Yeah, they stick. Get they'll definitely make it a couple months, most of the time. Yeah. The specific date, but I do that and when I switched from the thread, so I had a thread with 3,000 comments, right? People might like it. When they started doing their own post, I do the thing. Well, Haley does the thing where she comments on all of them for me and engages them that way, but then they make 10 friends every time because 10 people comment and they'll say, "I love surfing. I live in Virginia, whatever." And so then they immediately get that community. >> Yeah. >> And that's when I switched. I think I switched that at the last games, probably. And when I switched that >> game changer. I wouldn't. It definitely >> Did your turn go down? >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What did you do to Yeah. I was like, "What did you do to reduce your turn?" >> Um, well, I want to keep drilling on this Jack stuff. >> Yeah, go for it. >> Um, >> how many new members a day are doing this? Because I wonder at what point does an introduce yourself post for every new member kind of get overwhelming. >> Yeah. So, one of the things we So, we were on this continuum of not all engagement is made equal. Um, so we got I think we're top 30 in Discovery at the moment and we kind of went a little bit too far over and then we had to bring it back slightly. So, so we started locking it after like a certain period of time, but that we turned that off after a while. >> So, we have suffered from engagement success at one point. So, we did have to turn off comments. We do sometimes get the feedback that the feed is just full of intro posts, but I think the benefit outweighs the negatives. Um, but if it got too much, we just turned them off after seven days or the >> What do you mean by turn them off after seven days? >> You can turn off comments so then they stop appearing in the main feed. >> So, when people just have a quick scroll, it's more value than just intro post. We don't do that now though. I think that's the only problem if there's not enough other substantive stuff happening in the group. If there's lots of value and automations and cool things happening, it probably forms like maybe 30% of the posts. Maybe maybe less than 30% but there's so much other stuff going on. But it when you read through the feed, it's like a pleasure. Well, it might begin pleasure to read through. So, it's not overwhelming, I think. >> Got it. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if we how what percentage of your new members would you say actually do an introduce yourself post? >> 20, 30% something like that. >> Maybe it's a higher really actually. >> Yeah. 40. >> We're on like level one. We're on like 35, 36%. >> So most people at least do something engagement in the group. I mean, we we need to get that way lower, but someone they at least do something. >> Yeah. I wonder if we could nudge them. I've been thinking of doing some kind of onboarding feature. >> That'd be good because it's just on our calendar at the moment. >> What What do you mean it's on your calendar? >> They just It's just an open call. If we could structure it a bit better. >> He's he's saying like a structured onboarding, like complete these steps when you join, right? >> Yeah. >> Basically start your module but more required. >> I'd be stoked for it. >> Cuz we >> that one video that on boards them like that, everybody has to watch before they enter, and then like directions, make your first post with a button or something. That would be genius, even if you cap the length at 30 seconds or something because weirdly enough, even ask by the way, guys, just did you know you've got these five really epic things and I have like we have like I had no idea we had this thing. We're like we thought about it so clear and obvious, but we it's good. We do these little refresher posts quite regularly and people really, really value that stuff. Awesome. Well, on that point, I think we do have so much going on. The onboard's almost essential. Like every single person is like your goal here, this is your resource. That's what the call for you is kind of essential. And I think we have if we didn't have that, our CH would be much higher. I basically require it to move on. So, I have 100%. We're like 90. >> You require the post. >> The post and on board. There's a there's a bypass for.

it. And also, they have a group 10 times bigger. But Gym Launch, um, is its own school, and we convert 25% of people who join the community, and we have 100% of people get on onboarding calls. Obviously, we're niched, so that's, yeah, you know, that's that's a big difference. But we don't unlock anything until they hop on the onboarding call. So, basically, you get zero value. Like, you opt in for all of these things, and we're like, "Great, so in order to get those things, hop on the call so we can make sure you go through the right stuff at the right time for your business, because if you do all of it, you'll definitely fail." And so, let's make sure that you just do the thing that matters to you right now. They hop on the call, they're like, "Oh, this is so much work." Like, "If you want, we can help you out." "Sure."

"So, you go with a lead magnet that's for something, and you only unlock it while they hop on a call?"

"Yeah. Everything's locked."

"Do a lot of people get pissed?"

"No. Is it because of the way you frame it?"

"Yeah. I mean, this part of the experience of being in the in the community is like the first thing you do to get the stuff is this."

"How did you make the decision between, um, having the setter do that onboarding, versus having the onboarding specialist do the onboarding, versus having the group onboarding? Like, how did you... it?"

"I actually don't know the difference of what you were asking."

"Well, at at some point, you would have like a group onboarding call. That's probably might be phase one. Oh, like a group. You mean like, you mean number of people group one onboarding versus the setter doing the onboarding, which is really to set the call for the upsell of the thing?"

"Um, versus just like a regular specialist?"

"I think you have both."

"But I think the, I mean, we're obviously very high ticket and niched, and so for us, one-on-one makes complet."

"Can you tell me what you're doing in your onboarding call?"

"Because that that's something you do every day, right?"

"Like, what does that look like? How long is it?"

"So, it's an hour every day. But if I'm honest, the Monday, Tuesday is always overrun 'cause, um, the first thing I do is say, 'I'm Adam. I'm on this journey with you. I'm an admin. You introduce yourself.' I want to make sure every single person gets five minutes of that call. So, if I have 10 people, it's it's a long call. So they tell me about their goals, their background, their business, what they want to do. So if they want to grow on LinkedIn, boom, these are the resources for you. If you haven't even built an automation, this is perfect. We have a 'Start Here' module, 'Zero to Hero.' So it really depends where they are in their journey. So I want to hear a little bit about them, you know, where they're from, their hobbies and stuff, but mostly where you are in the business, in your automation journey, and then I can insert them at different points. Um, but really, I think it's just they have their five minutes, and there's a group and a cohort. They've made some friends. And one little hack is that I unlock a time-unlocked module. So I say, 'Look, because you joined us, I'm going to give you a little sort of advance,' and I unlock a few things in the call just as a gift. And then I also can upsell them as well. So I don't think it's an upsell. It's like, 'Look, annual's here. If you can see the value at the end of the call, you can do annual.' And we're also going to upsell them to the high ticket as well. But I do that after I'm pretty confident they feel better after they've joined the onboard than what they when they started. So I like..."

"So, people self-organize like the calls on the calendar every day, but if people joined over the weekend or Monday morning, they're all going to jump on Monday's call?"

"Yeah."

"But they just figure that out on their own?"

"Well, there there's a bit of a sequence. Like I have a pinned 'Start Here,' 'Do This,' 'Start Here' section in the classroom. The final action there is 'Join the Onboard Call.' It's a link to the diary, just pops it up. So there's a sequence that gets them. They don't just have to fall on the calendar. There's like a pinned post, a classroom module, 'Start Here,' induction. They introduce themselves. There's a few touch points that push them to the onboard, like an email as well. If they get an email, uh, sort of sequenced emails that they..."

"It's still quite complicated, right?"

"It is. We can get We want to get more people on the onboards. I think there's more."

"Yeah, I know it. I'm just trying to think how I could make it better."

"What do you do with your autodm?"

"Yeah, like, yeah, exactly. That's like, 'Introduce yourself and join an onboard.' That's basically it. Yeah. But I think the hack is, whatever the action, whatever, once they get to the next step, the next step must be, it's like, you know, book a make and close me type of thing. They, the next step must be clear once they've done the first step. So once they've done that, it's done. Now you're going to do X after that."

"Does anyone show up to an onboarding call that's already onboarded?"

"Yes."

"Is that annoying?"

"It's so annoying. It's my fault. I mean, I must not..."

"They just want to hang out, ask questions or something."

"And and they won't leave. Like I'll be like, 'Hey, I'm not gonna talk to you.' I I'll literally say that. I'll be like, 'Hey, we already talked. Like, I'm gonna give these people the time.' And they'll still stay every time."

"Is your onboard in the calendar? Is it public?"

"Mhm."

"Have you ever experimented and not made it public in the calendar?"

"I have and it didn't go well, but I think I could do it again better. Um, I the way I did it didn't make a lot of sense. So..."

"Do you think there's Does this happen to you too, Jen?"

"Um, well, do you know what would be cool? Yeah, we do. But we love them. We love We love all the people. The the familiar charact selling, don't they? They This group's amazing. Did you need to stay in this group? Like they start selling it for us, which is cool. I think if I could have anything in the platform, it would be a mandated onboarding video with a little section. It says like, 'Join your first onboarding call.' Once they've done it. So they could like, it's almost like they've got the video, and then we could have a way to add maybe toggle something in the calendar that says this is an onboarding call, and then they can see that beneath it. Because I I think..."

"Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Maybe the onboarding thing doesn't show on the calendar for everyone, but it's a one of the requirements of completing onboarding."

"Yeah."

"Do you know what I mean?"

"We we sort of think churn is solved with the onboard. Um, so..."

"Totally."

"But that way you can see if the member's onboarded or not."

"That would be cool."

"No one who's onboarded sees any calendar event for onboarding."

"Do you know what I mean?"

"Yeah. That your calendar gets pretty beefed up from that, right? It's hard to describe."

"Yeah, because you're like spamming everyone and cluttering everyone's experience for a minority of people. So..."

"It's true. Because it's the next call up, onboarding, then it's tech support. So it's almost like they can't see some tech support coming after it."

"But Adam, have you tried to instead of linking to the school calendar, or like link to Calendly or something?"

"I have considered it. Um..."

"If it's not broke, don't fix this sort of thing. But yeah, I've considered doing a Cal and blue light, just..."

"I'm pretty sure I know how to fix this. If this is a big I'm just trying to think if it's worth it or not."

"The way we do it is we do, um, support every single day from 7:30 to to say 8 or say 9. And we created the whole course with a link to the support link. So they go, they know exactly where to go for the support link, and it's always static. So 7:30 on the calendar, there's support, they click on it, and they just join the call. And that works for onboarding and also for supporting current members if they have any questions. So it feels like you're giving them time and, um, helping them out with any question they have. So I think instead of getting lost within the community or trying to look for answers elsewhere, they have that support right there whenever they need it. M"

"The, uh, on the churn thing, one point I'd also mention, we had this policy which was no question unanswered within 24 hours. So if you asked a question, you'd get an answer. One of the reasons being printed that is because when we just sort of anecdotally looked through the cancers list, what we found with some of the counselors was they'd asked a question like four weeks ago, nobody responded to it, and that was like a little theme that we saw. So then we said, like, we need to make sure that because you can filter on school by like, you know, have they had any replies or not, and we just make sure that list is as slow as possible all the time, and that made a bit of a difference as well."

"Unreliable to posts."

"Yes. The what we can't really figure out well is the unreliable questions in threads, and like my notifications get a little bit out of control. Um, so sometimes I can fall through the cracks. It's also not fil..."

"If you do this, um, please make it, um, optional only because I like doing, or I think a lot of people like doing, like monthly or bi-weekly onboarding calls for any new members, and then old members can join, and it really does help them meet each other. And so it's not always, um, necessary. It's not always necessary for it only to be members."

"Yeah. Well, the the little video makes sense, right? And then like we're introducing rules feature next week because that helps with moderation. So, if they could see the rules and click, like, tick, tick, tick, um, watch the video, but then maybe you could require a introduce yourself post. So, you'd have to like watch the video, check the rules, and introduce yourself, and then onboarding's complete. You know what I mean?"

"The, if I could have anything, and have them do intro posts, but I appreciate, like, I guess like Reddit's a good comparable, isn't it? Like, like even my, I don't really comment that much, but there's like this huge like swath of people because we reach out sometimes, 'Hey, guidelines, everything okay?' Little health check, sort of thing. 'No, no, we love it. We just we just look, we just exist in the shadows and look at things and don't talk to anybody.'"

"That's how I use Reddit. I just..."

"Exactly. Yeah. So..."

"That's the whole internet, by the way."

"If everyone decided to talk, the internet would break."

"Yeah. Yeah. Actually, yeah."

"You don't want 100% of people commenting and posting and, yeah."

"Explode. Yeah. Too much, too much engagement."

"Um, so that's why I'm wondering if you, is it even worth requiring an introduce yourself post? It can be listed there as like these three check mark things to tell people what to do, but then they can decide whether or not they want to."

"Well, we've leaned into the level system, so they almost have to to unlock a lot of the stuff. So, you did mention time unlocks, but I really like the level system. So, we leverage that. So, the intro post gets them to now three and level four, actually. So, they almost needed to unlock the content. Yeah, we have a big software unlock at level four, like X thousand dollars worth of software, once you reach level four. And with enough, the intro post boosts you to other four. So, you pretty much unlock it, like the intro itself available, and there's like a reason to get engaged and get those conversations."

"Every school is different in its own way. The, what's what would be the same is having the intro video."

"The video and the rules."

"Right. Right. So, everyone could customize it to how they want their tool to be."

"But it would be great because you have the, um, everybody has the, uh, leaving video option."

"And that's really helpful. So, just have that in the beginning."

"Yeah. So, maybe just video, rules, and it seems like maybe actions, but they're not required. So, like, you could say, 'One, introduce yourself,' and you could tick it if you've done it. And 'Two, join the on next onboarding call.'"

"Yeah. And a little emoji if you do it because then it would it would just tell you like, you've done this part, you've done this part."

"It is it is rare for us to have churners in the first three months if they've done an intro post. Like, that would be weird to see. It absolutely makes a difference. So, we we almost see category one churners are they come, they they get frozen cryog genesis, they do nothing, they disappear. Um, so we get them introed, get them like engaged. And then category two churners, maybe have they seen, have they gotten the value bits? So that's how we sort of thinking about it in those kind of frames."

"Do people write the intro post when they're on our board call, or they did it themselves?"

"Not really. I do encourage it. I I don't like mandate it, but I highly encourage it to either do it now while someone else is doing it, or after. But to be fair, a lot of them have already done it as they come into the onboard because that's where I get them and I say, 'Hey, join me. I'm an admin.' And they do it."

"Right."

"And have you ever locked everything, but just tried, you have to show up to the onboard call?"

"Never tried that. Now, because some people, we've got some great resources. So, you could just get your value from Jack's automations and the blueprints. Some people love that. I don't like that they do that, but they can get the value. So, some people like to just be a lurker. So, I haven't mandated it."

"Another big thing on churn is that I have someone in one in the main membership. Her name is Allison, and she just, she's such a great member that she now works with me, and she volunteered to do an experiment where she just DMs anyone who's turning out in the next few days and just says, you know, 'Is everything okay? You know, we're going to miss you.' And we accidentally found out that a lot of people didn't know that they were turning. Like their card expired, or they they didn't, something happened. There was some technical glitch or something. Or they may have even said that out of like, 'I want to come back.' But either way, we brought back a lot of people who are turning out. That's why we're at 7.5."

"So, just sometimes just asking people, um, if everything's cool."

"Do that as well. I think they know that they're they're tuning 'cause we send them a notification. It's pretty obvious, but they don't want they probably don't want to admit that."

"Yeah. That and that could be psychological, but..."

"Because it's just they don't they probably think, 'Oh, she won't see me.' Like..."

"Yeah. Yeah. Exactly."

"Look out the back door. Irish goodbye."

"Yeah. Yeah. But then when you, they see they're like, 'Oh my god, they feel so bad instantly.' It's like unfollowing someone on social media. You're like, 'I really want to, but this might cause a lot of issues.'"

"And then you do it, and then they're like, 'Hey, I saw you don't Oh, I must have accidentally uh uncllicked it.' You know, like..."

"That's why I don't follow anyone, by the way. Like, because it's such a weird dynamic. Um, but this intro, this onboarding feature, I'm curious about it because you could do the video, that's obvious, the rules, and then maybe you could have some actions like, 'Introduce yourself,' 'Join the next onboarding call,' 'Download the app.'"

"And would it be unlockable?"

"What do you mean unlockable?"

"If you hit the actions?"

"Well, the problem is was we could require it, or they couldn't just say they did it. If they say they did it, you know."

"That's I do everything like that for my unlockables. I I literally just have a disclaimer that's like, 'This is what you have to do to unlock this. You can say you did it, and like, then you just won't get any value out of the next thing because you have to have this, and I don't care."

"And I'll hate you."

"Yeah."

"I just throw that one."

"That's yours. Yeah."

"And I'll hate you."

"But it would be interesting to see who's onboarded and who's not, right?"

"Yeah. Because being able to see onboard churn versus unonboarded churn, I feel like would be very valuable. But if we make it mandatory, though, to your point, then it's like everybody has to be..."

"It's quite hard to make it mandatory."

"I feel like video with the like check the list of rules, that feels like you could make everybody watch the..."

"The intro post is is reasonably hard to make mandatory, but we could still do it. The calendar is definitely really hard because..."

"How do you know if they added?"

"Yeah."

"The app is very easy to do because we can tell if they've got the app or not."

"D is huge. Like Calvin and Doug and a few other people who really nailed retention."

"They spend a lot of their efforts to try and get people to use school."

"That makes a ton of sense. Do..."

"Yeah. I want to do an analysis of how many people, like, what does churn look like based on the percentage of like, it'd be cool for everyone to know what percentage of your group has the app downloaded, right?"

"And churn like because like I, the majority of my consumption of school is mobile. Me personally."

"Really? Damn."

"Like I pull it up. So when I do the calls, that's the only time I'm on desktop on school. And the rest of the time I'm looking at the 100. I'm just I'm just seeing what's going on, seeing what's in the group."

"There's also a really cool feature that helps retention, uh, or churn, that the video that you, uh, record when people are, or the video that you put, um, at the pricing page, I believe."

"Yeah, the about page."

"Yeah, that that feature. We didn't announce the pricing page when they want to churn, when they want to..."

"Cancel. Yeah."

"That's a really good one. So..."

"People that have that, their churn on average is like 7% lower."

"Absolute seven, or like 7%?"

"Seven. I think it's just normal seven, not absolute."

"Okay. Yeah. So, what we do is we say, we remind them of why they joined, and we also, um, basically reignite the fire in them and to motivate them a bit more. And then say, 'Hey, look, you joined at a really cheap price. Next month, it's going to go up higher.' So..."

"And I don't think you I think you can be the best one I've seen for that, by the way. There's this group about relationships, right? Like finding relationships, and it's only a 30-second video on the cancel page, and the guy is sitting in like the position on the like on the floor of a shower, and it says like, 'Please don't leave me.' And there's sad music, and he's like pretending to cry. It's because it's like you're breaking up, and it's a group about relationships, and it works so well. And there's not even any real words, right? Like I think sometimes if you can make people smile or like just change their pattern because they're in this like, 'I'm going to cancel' pattern, but if you just do something where they..."

"Especially if it has something to do with the group."

"Um, but in general, I know that those videos lower churn as a general rule. Yeah."

"Everyone have that."

"Please do that."

"It's a very hidden feature. I should really make it a bit more obvious."

"I was I was playing up with the with all the features and I found I'm like, that's that's really genius to have to record a video for that."

"Yeah, it's just I mean, if you decrease churn by 7%, you increase LTV by 7%. So, if you make 7% more revenue with one thing, feels like worthwhile."

"But this onboarding feature, who would want this one?"

"Yeah, there's nothing mandatory."

"What about just the video and the rules, though?"

"Yeah, I would love that. Just nothing like they have to do an intro post."

"That'd be tough. I think that if we know that the app is a huge, like, if we find I like I feel like if people have downloaded the app, they're likely to just stick in general more. But if we know that those three things have high correlates, like you check the box, you understand the rules, you watch the 30-second or two-minute video of onboarding, and then you click here to download the app so you can, you know, take the group with you in your pocket or whatever."

"So, what should they be limited on until they onboard?"

"I could freeze everything. Yeah. You could just freeze everything. I just don't see a reason if it's going to benefit them. And I've had people complain too, like people say, 'Can't you just unlock it for me?' And I say, 'No.' And then they say, 'Then I'm leaving.' And I say, 'Okay.' And I just leave it at that 'cause they're not going to get what they want out of it."

"We scraped all of our charity members and we saw that 60, like the biggest commonality between all of the members was that 60% never made a comment or a post."

"Yeah. They made a comment or a post, but 40% did."

"And then if you look at all all members in general, if it's a 60/40 split, then it just means that there's it's representative of the population."

"Well, there's a few things we could do. We could like make it so you can't post, you can't comment, you can't DM until you finish onboarding, right? But that might reduce people even..."

"Commenting. Um, or we could make it so you can't do anything. It's literally useless until you onboard. That's the extreme version."

"I'm saying it more as more like the automated DM, more like a plugin, just like a a nice thing that is a welcome rather than uh we..."

"I think I know what I should do. Like, you know how when you create a new group, how you get that onboarding wizard, or like the thing at the top of the feed?"

"Yeah."

"And you can't dismiss it until you finish it, right? Those, I don't know, like when it, when there's something annoying in the UI and the only way to get rid of it is to finish it, do you always finish it to get rid of it?"

"Yeah. So if it's something like that for users."

"Level two kind of is though, right? Like that was the intention is you have to introduce yourself and engage before we let you do more stuff. Tried it. It's hard to just communicate that because there's so many places someone can go. There's a welcome post, there's a million other posts, there's a classroom, there's a calendar, like, and someone lands in there and they don't even know how to use school yet, like..."

"Right, there's a lot. So, if if there's just this thing at the top of the feed that's real blatant, that's like, 'Complete onboarding.'"

"And so it's not mandatory, but it's really can't miss it. If they complete the steps, like downloading the app, get a point towards them ascending a level."

"Well, that's another thing like what, like I mean, making it real obvious is one thing. Putting it at the top of the feed and not dismissible until they do it, somehow communicating their status if they're onboarded or not. But I don't know if that's worth wasting status on, honestly. Could we just increase the character limit in the autodm so we could actually like have more..."

"Well, I I think if if you get this onboarding feature right, the autodm isn't it could be used in different ways. But if everyone's using their pin post as their onboarding, and that's annoying because it's just there for everyone all the time, and eventually you're going to get sick of it and unpin it, and then new people don't get onboard anymore. And then if you're spend sending your autodm trying to onboard people, that's not the best either. And then if you're like in the autodm, you're linking people to a pin post that links people to a classroom. I mean, [ __ ] Like it should just be like, here's the onboarding, right?"

"It'll also declutter your classroom because a lot of people have a..."

"Well, you don't need to do the pin post for onboarding anymore."

"And you don't need to start here classroom."

"So, my classroom, one of the things is obsoleted after they do that, right? But it's there forever. It's the first thing they see."

"So, if I had the post and the call there, then my classroom would be a classroom and it wouldn't have a module that was obsolete."

"Yeah. Even ahead of the onboarding wizard, which I think is cool, if we could just get when you join a group, you see a video and it's like, even if you cap it 30 seconds or something, because the tetra man's going to be quite short, that in itself I think would be like significantly helpful."

"Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. And then maybe you can just see as an admin who's onboarded and who's not, but it's not a status that other members can see."

"So, right. So, that same place where the live with the red dot is blinking."

"If you haven't been onboarded, you're not going to see our calendar stuff. Instead, you see a static video that we've recorded that says, 'Here are you, here's how you get onboarded. Here's the steps.' And they watch that video. It's at the top of the community chat, right in that area where the live red button would be. Um, they can see the other posts and scroll around and get value, but that video is up there and they know that they have to complete that because we made a thumbnail that says 'Watch me now.' So I was sort of thinking you had like a middle page in between it. You sign up, it's almost like welcome, the little video, green button, join. They get this like in..."

"That's how I see it in my head."

"Yeah. That's really hard though, because sometimes like someone gets approved in a free group or something and they're not online when they get approved, so then they come back."

"And so now we're like redirecting people. Like it's messy. If we make it just at the top of the feed, it's dynamic, 'cause I think also people want to see like they got in, but there's this thing that they need to complete. I think if it's just really blatant, people will do it. And maybe if you gave them some points."

"What are we doing in games at the minute?"

"When someone joins, they just land on 'Start Here' a module, but it still doesn't really explain like how to use school, the basics, like, 'Here's the calendar, here's the right.' Like, we don't tell them to download the app. Vibe."

"But you're saying where where it says now, uh, 'Get three members,' and it kind of reminds you to get three members, the top."

"Yeah. So I can make it blatant like that. I can even make it yellow. Like, you will not be able to miss it. It'll be, yeah. And you can't get rid of it until you finish it."

"Yeah. My vote's for that."

"Yeah. But it's like it's reminding..."

"And then I think as an admin, you should be able to filter members by onboarded or not, so that you can see new members that aren't onboarded. But then whether we need to give them points or anything, I don't know. Probably not, right?"

"One of the things I'm thinking about, the onboard wizard's good for like, first time you join the platform, not not per group, I guess, but it's more like if I, if I see school and it's kind of like we get biased over because we're on the platform so much, like trying to think about it from fresh eyes when I join other groups. One of the questions I ask myself is like, 'Where's the first bit I go, click?' And many groups solve that by having it, 'Hey, start here' section. So I'm wondering if there's another element competing for the attention of the first time using the group, if that confuses the experience. It's almost like I like I like the bottleneck of you're just watching this video."

"Yeah, me too."

"And then they go to the next step. And even, and I I hear your point about the complication free groups, but I wonder if we just did it to pay attention where they just, just to simplify, to get something out, we can test it perhaps. They join the pay group, they see it, and then we see if changes things."

"So you're saying like a blank page that you can't, so you can't even access the community until you complete the boarding. You can add like a skip button, which I think would be probably good for like user user experience, where it's like, 'Welcome video, click button,' and then underneath that, a little green button which is to the community. So like, if you don't want to watch it, that's fine, that's on you. You can skip it, but it's so clear what it is, and in that 30 seconds we can say, 'Hey, we got this, we got this, we got this.' And then they're kind of like, at least they won't churn because it's confusing. We can we can be sure of that. And if they don't want to watch it, they can just simp just get past it. But why, why is that better than doing it at the top of the feed?"

"Because where where do they click? Do they click on 'Start Here' post, or they go to the calendar?"

"Well, it will be above all the posts."

"You're thinking, so you almost knock the post down?"

"Yeah, it's right at the top."

"Would no longer exist?"

"The post would be there, but you would not see them. So every time you look at the feed, it's re, and it would be yellow, too."

"Yeah."

"So, like, you know, big, like you're not missing it."

"Yeah. Cuz because I, I was thinking it was going to be a little bit, do you know where the count, the notification, you actually going to make it quite like significant?"

"Oh, no, no, it will be serious."

"Like you have, have you made a new group and seen the onboarding wizard thing we do?"

"You mean that?"

"Okay, it'll be like that."

"So satisfying when that, when you finally get to dismiss it."

"Exactly. Every, like, you want to finish it, you want to tick off your things. Yeah, it's above the, the highest end."

"Yeah, it's the main thing, and it's real obvious, and you can't get rid of it, um, unless you finish it."

"And so, would people turn on onboarding, or it would be automatic for everybody, like for admin?"

"I would probably turn it on for everyone as a default feature because I can't because we're when we release the rules feature next week, we're giving every group three default rules, and then they can edit them if they want. But that means just out of the box, there's three rules that almost everyone would want. Um, and then I'm thinking for the video, maybe we could have one universal video that tells people how to use school because some people might be lazy. They're like, 'I don't want to make a Loom.' And so it could just take..."

"Just like a cartoon video, like a, I can, we can make like an animated, you know, school video."

"I think it would just be a nice woman's voice."

"Yeah."

"Showing you like, this is how you access classroom. Yeah."

"Would it, would it have multi, multi-language support?"

"Yeah. Good. Yeah. Right."

"What do you think?"

"Yeah."

"Not not initially. Um, but that's why you can add your own video, right? Like, so yeah, you can, you can support..."

"Arabic."

"If you're lazy, you get English."

"If we were going to rank features, I think affiliates is number one for for us."

"Yeah. Free trials comes out on Monday."

"Oh, that's going to be crazy."

"That'll be an interesting one."

"If people are getting people to buy normally, I don't know if they would want to do a free trial anyway. It could lower the quality of the group."

"Are you going to do, are you going to make a, is there a feature connected to that for locking everything?"

"No. But it's a fixed 7-day free trial. Credit card required, and we lock it. So, you can only have one trial per user. So, if you do a trial and then cancel, and then you go back to the about page and you click 'Start Trial,' it'll say you've already had a trial, but you can just join as a paid member. So, we don't block you from joining. You just can't get a second trial. And then we lock it per card. So, only one trial per card. So, if you think you're sneaky and you make another account, won't let you. It'll say you have to buy it. So, it still won't block you, but it will just make you pay immediately."

"Thought you were."

"Try and do it a second time sneakily. You shouldn't even ask. It should just auto charge and put..."

"Then you'll have more, then you'll have more support tickets."

"That's true."

"Yeah."

"But yeah, that one is..."

"That one will be interesting. But this onboarding thing is is an easy win, I think, because I think everyone would see a reduction in churn."

"Yeah."

"And maybe an increase in the quality of the interactions, which is like, that would make everyone's life a lot better if posts were higher quality, comments were better, everyone understood how to use the thing, and your churn went down."

"Those are all good."

"And you don't have to [ __ ] around with pin posts saying 'Welcome, start here.' You don't have to have..."

"It use up real estate."

"Yeah. And your AutoDM can be used in better ways."

"Yeah."

"It's a no-brainer."

"So, I would prioritize this one definitely, like right after, well, like right when I get back, actually, 'cause this one makes a lot of sense even for us in the school games. Yeah. Like we've probably seen an increase in trial conversion rate, a decrease in churn."

"Because everyone doesn't know how to use school. Like that's the issue, right? It's like as soon as someone understands the platform, then you're like, 'Oh, this is [ __ ] great.' You know? But it's like that 60 seconds or whatever it is of just like, 'Here's how calendar works, here's how this works, here's like, just it's right there.' Like, we've been traveling for a week and I can feel our churn going up because I haven't been able to."

"Yeah. Deep inside. Taste it in the air."

"Do you like that churn met drink?"

"Love it. Yeah, it's awesome."

"Yeah."

"Delicious. Yeah."

"So, what were your thoughts on So, I checked out a competitor, my brain started, it felt like my brain was bleeding. It was so confus I was like, I was so counterintuitive. But one of the feedbacks I hear from people that use Discord and other ones is like the kind of chat threads people have where they can like break out into rooms and stuff. I know we probably talked about it a few months ago, but like, do you have any like thoughts in the lab about the way people communicate on school? Like where we could have these like breakout chat threads like from like Slack or like Discord or something?"

"You mean like a group chat?"

"Yeah. Yeah. Where they can, it's just so easy to get like conversations and stuff, and it like runs against the threads."

"Yeah. I mean, already the people go to DMs to do like bad stuff, right? Like spam, scams, and things like that. So once you make it group chats, it'll happen there, and that's really hard to to crack down on. But then also people are just going to like divide themselves endlessly into smaller and smaller subgroups, and that will take the engagement out of the main feed, right? And so it's like, is it, that'll happen for certain. So it's like, is it, is the upside, like, does it outweigh the downside? And I'm not sure about that."

"So, what happened to Facebook like Messenger came out, and then news, newsfeed like activity went way down. Yeah, it's to organize though, to your point, in the teams, it would be a really nice feature to just like specific use cases, like team diamond, this is your pod. It'd just be for small use cases like that, at least."

"Um..."

"Teams are a turn code. People love teams."

"Without that, my churn would probably be like 80%."

"If you..."

"Without teams?"

"Mhm."

"But you guys already have decent churn, and if we add a few more things to it, it'll probably come down even more."

"Well, when we hit 2%, I don't think we're decent, to be fair. Or 7% and 0%."

"Oh, he's doing it without group chats, too. That's what I mean. It's like, is it necessary?"

"Well, we have a white group, you're lock energy. I know what you mean. You It's like the Instagram DMs, right? It just, there's so much exists in the DMs now versus a thread. I guess I My object, I'm trying to find more ways to connect people and get better conversations."

"There's an audio feature."

"A new audio feature that..."

"Sneaky secret."

"I killed that feature."

"Oh, you killed it?"

"Yeah."

"Never mind. I thought it was a distraction from like, I would look at school and I'd notice my eyes always go to that audio room feature, and a lot of the time it was empty, or there was only one person in it, and it made me feel like school was dead. But then I would look at how many people were online, and there was like thousands, tons of online now faces. And then I'd look at the feed, and there was typing indicators, like people were typing now. There was a latest comment just now. So, it was very alive, but I almost ignored everything else because I just looked at that room."

"Was it, um, was it, was it where you could plan it, where you could schedule it, rather than it being just open all the time, or not open all the time?"

"Yeah, that would be a different feature. Yeah. Um, 'cause if you're going to do that, why not just do the live stream thing? Yeah. Um, and I think it was kind my fear was it would do what Instagram Stories did to posts. They make them irrelevant. You know how like you said that some people just do Stories now? They don't do posts anymore. And it's like, is that what we want school to just become like everyone looking at that bubble at the top?"

"So..."

"Yeah, I'm sure if everybody voted, they would say they want video streaming over audio. [Music] That's..."

"They have to choose."

"That's what the platform is. Like, these platforms are you connect, an influencer connects with his audience by being on a live stream."

"And then people hit the hearts and the thumbs up."

"And then they're chatting in that thing."

"Then it fills that soul where the approval of your father should be."

"Yeah. Everyone feels approved, and you're like, 'Oh, hey Sam.'"

"A feature that I actually want to prioritize soon is after we do moderation. So, we're going hard on moderation features right now. Like, when you report something, you can select the rule that they broke. When you delete something, you can select the rule they broke, and it will send them feedback as well as a copy of the content you deleted, right? Which is nice 'cause then people don't, you don't feel so bad about deleting stuff, right? And just does it automatically. Um, and then some more things around like reducing DM spam, especially for free groups. Um, and then I think the map feature is a real, like, in terms of connecting people. I think map is..."

"I'm so amped."

"Is a really good idea."

"They love it."

"Let me, I'm going to share a story because I think it might be relevant. Like, I think the, I think y'all meeting up with your communities in person is one of the biggest unlocks that. So, it's like, as the world goes to AI, like my whole internal theme has been around businesses IRL, and so, like, where I'm leaning in terms of like what we're doing with the businesses in the portfolio, and we're seeing like ridiculous results. And I spent, I think Ben Francis came out here, um, last week. Do you know who he is? Gymshark. I know the UK guys know who he is. Um, so anyways, we hung out for the day, and something that he found that was really interesting was when he had his first, you know, two or three years of Gymshark, they just went to all the fitness expos that they could. And later, when they mapped where all their customers were, they had concentration heat maps wherever they had done the in-person experiences. And that was like many years later, far in excess of the amount of pe, you know, the amount of the hundred t-shirts they sold in a day. Like, it wasn't even close to that, right? And so it was just like the word of mouth of how good of an experience those people had just created this big ripple effect. And if school is about helping people create community, obviously part of it's online, but part of it's in the real world. And I think, um, I think, and what what Ben was, was, uh, was telling me was basically, if someone comes to the in in-person experience, it's like they're, it, right? Like they're, they're locked in. Yeah. And I think, I mean, you know, obviously for us, this is why we do these things in person. These aren't 8-hour Zoom calls or whatever the hell."

"Yeah. I can tell you what we're thinking about it because I think it's our job to lead by example about building community. If we're a community company, we should be good at building community and lead by example so that everyone else can copy that in a way. So, if we do a map feature, and it would be in school games and school community, everyone who joins is automatically added on the map. So they don't have to manually add themselves."

"Is it, is this like tracking by their IP, or do they say they're in Miami?"

"Um, no. We auto-detect where they are. We can find their latitude and longitude lines. It's pretty scary, actually. So, what we actually are doing is adding 20 miles of noise to the coordinates."

"So, we throw it off by 20 miles so that we're not like doxing anyone. We're still debating how many miles is your coordinate off before it's doxing. Some people, it's in between 20 and 40. People think..."

"I feel like five, it's like you don't know where a five-mile radius in like New York. It's like you don't know where..."

"It's just the city. The problem is, if you look at a map, then you load like a thousand people on a single. It needs to be like distributed because you're going to visually look at it. We need latitude and longitude lines to put a pin, right?"

"We should get what floor they're on too. That way we can just..."

"I prefer 3D."

"No, this is pretty cool. Like when people join."

We automatically add them, and we can be very precise, but we're throwing it off by a bit. Then you can remove yourself if you want. You don't have to be on the map. You can also change your pin, right? You can put it more precise or less precise. It's up to you. But I think it's important that you auto opt people in.

And do you want to keep it auto updated? So when everyone's at an event, you can now see that every... It doesn't auto update. Cuz otherwise, it would be like tracking you around. Yeah. Like if we're going to do something on by default, it better not be too intense. Creepy, you know? Yeah.

Um, and then what I think the the natural evol... And then there'll be a tab at the top that says like map. So it's it's built in. Everyone's on the map. You can click map at the top and you can see where everyone is. And if you click on a pin, it pops open their profile preview thing. You can message them or whatever. But then the natural extension of that, I think, is events. So on the calendar right now, you can type in an address for IRL event, but that would plot that on the map. So you could look at the map and see events and people.

And then what I think we're going to do, and Ted's going to do this for us, cuz if we look at naturally what's been happening in our community, like the school creator community, people like Ted have done meetups. So he he held a meetup. I think you've done three. Four. Four meetups. Did you see School Festival? Did you see this? Yeah, that was in Germany. Yeah. Yeah. So, this guy Calvin Hollywood, right? You guys heard of him. He's like a school like fanatic. Um, he just held a a festival in Germany called School Fest and there's like 500 people there. It's big. I mean, he paid like 50 grand to host this event. Wow. And he was like he all he asked for was permission to use the logo. I was like, "Okay." Yeah.

You know about um school center like Sports Center? What's that? Like Sports Center ESPN is like, "Oh, who's in the top 10 playing the playoffs? This this guy is having school center." And he's like, "So Max is leading by 30K right now." You're saying that's already exists. Yeah. Yeah. He's on YouTube, right? Really? Yeah. It's called School Center.

No, but I think what I'm getting at here is people are we notice people are naturally doing this without us telling them to and without us paying them, right? And people were flying all over the place. Like people were flying from Poland to LA to attend a free little like meetup. So that showed me like we should have something called an ambassador program in a way. So we find the people that are already obsessed about school and we can make them an ambassador and then they can add their own events to the calendar.

So now you're kind of decentralizing your community. So you could have a Germany ambassador, an Australia ambassador, and they hold local meetups. So that way the burden's not fully on you. And so they're allowed to make meetup but basically they have the only permission level to make. Yes. And they probably will get some kind of status too, right? Yeah. Right. We've already had that like we did one in German and happening everywhere. It's cool.

I have a thought on what you said with the Gym Shark thing. What's the difference or what's your opinion on creating so like Ted and Matt and them did the Belt Blast thing, right? They brought everybody there. Sure. Then there's the inverse, which is what they're doing, which is they're flying. So that what have you done? Germany, LA, Vegas. So they're flying to their community.

I think it's just who the ambassador is. I think fund like I think at the end of the day, you have a heat map. You see where people are and you have events there. And whether you're the one flying to them or you have somebody there who hosts it. Either way, it's like you try to make his community possible. If you only have one, then everyone's like, you have one IRL event, then everyone's going to go there. If you have five, then they're going to go one that's closest to them.

I think if you have ambassadors, it makes sense to use them. It's just if you don't, then you've got to go and do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. What do you What do you think about band Alex? Like our theory is two benefits. One is the members for life when we shake the hands in person. But I guess it's also an optics thing about it's added that fourth dimension being in real life. Do you is your theory like just the visibility of the fact that it is happening in person like elevates the kind of like adds a third dimension to the group which like makes it just feel...

I think once people show up in person they're not cancelled. Yeah. Do do you think the like and I think when you're there in person you can just be like hey everybody upgrade to annual and they be like okay. Yeah. When I see AI, when I see your name or your group or something like I'd seen Mr. Addie or whatever, like number three on Discovery, I'm like, "Who the [ __ ] that?" Right. But last night he was like, "Oh, I'm number three on Discovery." And I was like, "Wait, you're Mr. Eddie?" And he was like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Oh shit." Like it in AI Jack, I remember seeing that, but then I met you. If you think about what you thought something was and everything before you met them and then what it's like when you see their profile picked online after you've met them, it means so much more, right?

Different experience. Yeah. They're spending more hard cost to fly to the meetup than they do for the entire group you have for multiple years. Yes. I mean, it's crazy, right? So, the last thing they're going to do is cancel the $50. Like, if they're spending a grand or two grand to fly and do all this like...

There's another version too which is what people in my group have just started meeting each other on the same date. So I'm going to be in DC, we're going to be DC, but the same weekend Atlanta's happening and Dallas is happening. So you can you don't have to fly everywhere. you can kind of be there in where you are and give people what we did is we gave people a little bit of like props what they could say to each other and how a lead can lead that group. Cuz I'm sure you've seen the post where someone's like hey anyone else in like Canada like and they're kind of annoying. Um, but now you just look on a map, you're like, "Oh [ __ ] you're in like Montreal like want to meet up." So that it can create those natural ones, but then you could have some more official ambassador ones or you could tour it. It just opens up this new dimension of...

You want to talk about like connecting people? I swear that's the one of the strongest. I'm [ __ ] a for the brand will grow really this year for sure. The idea that you can go on a map and so like let's say somebody does a cool value post whatever which I hate the term and whatever but like whatever they put something good up and and a couple people respond or whatever and somebody says like hey that was awesome gives you a really nice comment to whatever you sent right? You click on their profile, you're not going to remember that two months ago when in their intro post that said hey I'm out of Dallas because you weren't there you don't give a [ __ ] or whatever right? But now when you click their profile you can find out you're like oh [ __ ] they're not far from me or even if you know they are far from you it gives you something to say dude how's Dublin, right? So, it gives you it gives you that immediate thing like, you know what, my sister lives out there. I was going to go visit her, but if you're in town, I'd love to, you know what I mean? Like, I think it just creates this natural I'm [ __ ] in for it. I'm like...

There really is an an invisible dimension of the internet. Like, no one does geography. I think because if you if you think about it, all the big companies are investing in metaverse and AI. It's the opposite of meeting in person, right? That's 2024. The map feature. We've almost finished it. So, it's like it's Yeah, I I killed the audio rooms because I was like, "Fuck it. I just want to ship the map one." Like, this thing I'm not so sure about. But some with the events like you're talking about, I'm thinking cuz I've I've teased it. I might just wait for the map feature because I like...

You can also make it part of the annual if I mean like there's a lot of you there's just whatever. There's just cool [ __ ] Yeah, but I think that you like to your point like we started with group chats for example. I think this thing's a lot more powerful. We we set up a group chat for every meter actually to be fair WhatsApp group but we just had an 11 hour flight and we were like are these worth it? I think it's answered the question that yeah these are totally worth it. We do it every month. We were debating is this really attacking our churn but after this feedback yeah we'll keep it.

Once you find some ambassadors, I honestly think that's even more powerful because this guy Kelvin Hollywood in Germany, he's like the ultimate spokesperson for school in Germany. Um, and they get more it's more of a community vibe if someone that isn't the owner is organizing things. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, it that's more of a community. Otherwise, you're kind of a touring celebrity, right? Yeah. Because Jack, we also talk about whenever it moves to IRL, it means they go to real. Yes. You know, school is like this digital thing, it's like the profile pictures and you mean real life. You see like the back of somebody's head, you're like, "Whoa, crazy." And then all that content, like think about all the guys. Oh, that's very specific. That's never happened to me. Think about your leaderboard. Like, you know, the main characters of your community. Yeah. Yeah. Whenever people see the main characters interact with each other, it does something to them. We're like, "Oh my goodness, this is like real people, real place, real stuff." Yeah. And that's actually they literally do use those words like it's it's just it's real. They love it. They absolutely love it. That that sign will definitely reduce churn as well. Like if I if we could just have networks of people in every country building those connections, those relationships do in the threads. Like they're just not going to all lead because I know Tom, I know Ben, I know Steve, I know Alex, and we'll pop the group. That's the only thing they had in common. Well, probably more than that, but you know, that just helps them stick. So, I think that will turn us.

And when affiliates rules out, they have an incentive to recruit people in their local area. Yeah. Yeah. It's getting this kind of shape, isn't it? Kind of like...

I always ask for like a local VIP for recommendations, but if I'm honest, I might just leverage them more as the ambassador and almost like give them the event and just help just guide them to organize it opposed to us to do it constantly. So, I think we should lean on Yeah. Super users more. Yeah. So, that one's coming. I think that one's going to be quite interesting. We're going to use it as a strategy for us. Yeah, because it makes sense for a community platform to be good at building community. Yeah. You think? Right.

I'm so stoked for this one. Personally, I think it's going to be [ __ ] huge. I'm for it. What What numbers would you set as like goals or milestones? And um, you know like 10x Grant Cardone they had like a certain thing they hit right. What what would you say could be the trajectory of you know how would you measure success of a live event? For what for what type of community? For any community? Yeah, well what whatever school is hosting I guess.

Well, we're not really going to schools isn't going to really host them. It's more like we will so I'm going to make Ted like fulltime. He's gonna be in charge of the ambassador ambassadors. And then there will be ambassadors like Kelvin Hollywood and he's in Germany. Evelyn could be... Oh yeah. Where is she? Austria. She's also somewhere else. Austria, right? Yeah, Austria. Austria. Max is in um Sweden, right? And like...

It eventually would have to mature to hey this one conference, the school con. Oh yeah, we'll do a school con which will be only once a year probably in LA and it'll be like paid and a one big conference where the whole world comes together for one thing. But this is a more distributed always happening thing that you wouldn't have to pay to attend and it's like more community building because at a big conference you're just sitting looking up. You're not really like interacting with everyone. Do you know what I mean? In it.

Well, different communities could have booths. Could be like a walk around thing. What was that? Booths. Communities could have booths at the conference. We do all sorts of things. We have funnel cakes. We have the churros. Yeah, we do lots of things. No, but I'm I'm just stoked for that. And I think we I think probably like four school days ago, uh we did a we did a huge kind of deep dive on events. And I just think that not obviously we get all the benefits of the churn stuff, but the amount of media that you're able to capture too in terms of testimonials in person like ads for those of you who want to start running ads like doing stuff in person makes it so much better. Um, yeah, it's just it's just better. I think you like those can get also incorporated if you think about your about page video. If people are like clicking and they see that like oh people are meeting from this community in the real world, I think that just makes it like it one it makes it legit, right? Like oh this is a real thing. But on top of they're like, "Oh, I kind of want that." Like a whole group of people who want to talk about anime and fitness. Like, [ __ ] yeah, I'm interested. I think we'd be I think I'm I'm obviously very pumped for it.

Okay. So, uh, in terms of turn stuff, these were all the See, there's these are some of the the golden BB's um that you guys did and hopefully the the map feature and the onboard the the easy onboard. The onboard's probably going to do the most. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Sweet. That was quite useful for me in terms of the product. Yeah. Yeah.

It was great. All right. So, um, I think we hit I think we started here, but we ended up here, which worked out great. I don't think it really matters what we Oh, no. It doesn't matter. I just I just let it wander. Yeah. Basos says he likes uh crisp memos and messy meetings. So that's his like perfect his perfect setup. Interesting.

I think there's an interesting thing that I've been thinking about a lot with offer scalability. If you guys are game for it, I'll kind of walk you through some of the some of the stuff that I've been seeing. Um, but in the uh in the offers book I talk about something called the hard to sell, easy to fulfill continuum. So it's like if something's really hard to sell, then it's usually easy to fulfill. And so like versus like something easy to sell, it's like I'll do whatever you want whenever you want it and it's going to be great. Very easy to sell, really hard to deliver on, right? Versus, hey, just do this one thing that's automated. And they're like, "But I'm not sure if that's going to help me." You're like, "No, no, it's it it doesn't require any time for me. It's it's completely automated. Uh, but you're going to love it." It's like it's harder to sell, right? And so, um, in thinking about this, basically, you have kind of two paths of of scalability. So, one is that you add you add more people or uh so this is like adding headcount. This is scaling teams like internally. And then on this side you have your ratio which is you go from one-on-one to one on four to one on eight or whatever. And so I think big picture uh you have to make some decision about which way you want to go. And I think a lot of people kind of get like caught here of like what like okay I'm kind of maxed out on my time. Am I gonna be doing should I just get one on four, right, for your onboarding stuff, or do I uh hire two of me? Uh, and it's it's I think it's a super tough uh split that has to happen and it depends on what the thing that's being fractionalized is. So like with onboarding, I think it makes sense to hire another person to do onboarding at a certain point rather than just get it bigger and bigger because I think it'll s like the the experience will suffer, right? Whereas if it's uh if it's like you making content, like where's the star power being? Like where's the star power? I think that if you have a star power thing, it's about ratio.

It's like I want to continue to fractionalize basically access to me versus uh kind of like core core services. I would go down the headcount route. So like what are the things that we have to do on a regular basis? Like moderation. Okay, cool. like maybe we have to add a couple people there. Like the core value things I have yet to see. I think the reason that like quote coaching businesses have a hard time scaling past like 30 million bucks a year oftentimes is because they try and hire coaches and they say okay I will take this person and they'll be you know you pay the same rate as you did to see me but now you get this person that I trained in a weekend and it's like well if it's fundamentally it can't be because either either what you have is so easy that you can train someone in a weekend which means it's not valuable or more likely you just train someone in a weekend and they're 10% as good as you right? And then churn goes up, etc. And so when I look at the biggest like quote influencer businesses that sell information, um, more of them go the ratio route on the core thing, the core value, and then you add headcount on all the noncore stuff. And so it's just been something that's been top of mind for me lately just seeing how people kind of like if you try and replace you like Taylor Swift isn't like man if I get just somebody else to sing for me I could totally I'm trying to make this scalable. It's like it's like that's the star power right but like she has tons of people who help her on the other things like when the events go from small to big she has more headcount that helps with all the kind of supporting value. So it's like is it the thing that creates the value or is this the thing that supports the value? And I think just like differentiating those things um I think will help a lot of because a lot of people are trying to outsource core value and then just like get [ __ ].

Does that make sense? That that's actually a really good thing because one of the questions we've had or thought about is like per unit of my time. Where's the best ROI? Is it actually doubling the contact on YouTube which start to do uh versus your physical presence within the groups versus what you should outsource. It's something that we're thinking about.

Per unit of time. Where's the best ROI? Stick to think of that. I'd love to hear from the group how often the creator is present on calls and in the group. Is that daily support once a week? Because we're trying to just optimize your time to the max. Yeah, at the moment it's like weekly calls.

Let's sift through it by people who have good churn because sometimes people are like, "Oh, this is what I do." It's like, "You have 30% churn. Like, I don't know if I feel like listening to your thing." So, what do you do? So, you do daily calls, right? Yes. So we start with them um from the start right from the start. So they join we do the whole course but we do it step by step. So I do uh daily calls and they are registered calls and they go onto the classroom. Um, but then to when we finish all of that we're going to start again with different things. So the it's almost like continuous learning. It never stops. That's how we're going to make sure that we...

But you're on basically every day. Oh no. So I do I do calls five five days a week and then I have two other teachers that do different things um in the week. So you're five days out of seven. Yes. And what are you AI... Once Friday. And you've got other people doing other... Five? So I have had a tentacle uh our AI was he does Monday does four or five days a week and then we got four or five onboards and then I do war on Friday.

Your turn's low. What do you do? New ones I still personally onboard everybody um at ratio because I'm still small enough it's like five to 10 um but I just do one value call and then I've had people honestly pitch to me doing calls that are solid and so they're on my schedule now so almost every day there's one call I don't have any days where I do more than one call that's what I've tried to stick to um but I do one a week that's like pure value whatever they need.

Are you presenting or answering questions? Question. I present first and then I answer questions. Um, I've found that personally, and maybe this is partly my fault, a lot of people don't know what their questions should be. So, I I go through the data from the prior week, things I've seen, what I've learned. I answer that question via my presentation. This is what I'm seeing. This is what I've been doing. This is what's working. And then I'll do calls at the end.

I'll I'll share something that I just um that happened just yesterday. So, some of you guys might know who Simon Squib is. He's uh I don't know. Apparently, I'm just crushing in the UK. Anyway, so anyway, Simon came out here and we did a YouTube video yesterday and his number one YouTube video on his channel. So, he like struggled. I don't want to say struggle, but like for like three years he was making content. It didn't like really take off. And then he had one video that got like I think it's at like seven or eight million views long form. It's two and a half hours. It's like a monster video. And he was like, "Yeah." So, what I did was he kept getting all these DMs on Instagram and Tik Tok of people asking questions. And so he just asked his team to put the hundred most frequently asked questions together because he felt bad that he didn't like couldn't respond to people's questions. And so he just made the list of all the questions. And then that video that ended up going completely viral was just him answering all of the most the 100 most frequently asked questions so that he could just send people a link like once and for all. So he just wouldn't have to be like if you have a question here's this link and it answers [ __ ] everything. Um, but I think about that in terms of like how we approach the quote value calls for the group. Um, because we saw this at school too, like when I because we've we've we've evolved it too. So like in the beginning it was like school center like I was we kind of like did a lot more commenting on who was leading the leaderboards. People didn't and like we did the opening and closing ceremony and people didn't find that as interesting. So then we so then people we started doing more Q&A people liked that. But then when it was lots and lots of Q&A, um it like the it was a lot of it just it didn't seem as interesting. And so then we switched to um basically I come with a topic that's top of mind and I talk about that thing for like 30 or 40 minutes and then the last 20 we pick like five really good questions and then just kind of answer those rather than trying to like all right let me answer this guy's let me see if I how many questions I can get through. It's like unless someone gets their question answered, it's of basically no value. And so it's really valuable if you're small because you get your question answered. But as soon as you get past like 50 people on a call, like you can't answer everyone's question. And so I think it has to switch to like basically you having going deeper on a specific concept and then the questions at least that I try to select on are questions semi-related to that deeper concept because then the the the calls are at least somewhat themed um which then make them a little bit more value after the fact rather than just like here's another of Alex telling people to get their first five customers and pull their head out of their ass.

Yeah. Because I I think if doing daily calls would drive up like would have net value. I think we would would do that immediately. I wonder if like not rationing access but like is it actually a feature that it's kind of in limited supply to some extent that you only get that like that one day where you have it. I think I think also what we found random jams where we say turn up and ask questions don't perform as well as the theme of this call is X. Ask your question in advance and then it's like there's a reason to show up for that specific call. It's true cuz people just show up because you're there and they want to hang out with Jack and they may be thinking of a question just for the sake of the call. Just to hear their voice. I like the theme idea actually if I scrape the group for the questions that you mentioned and then we talk about at least at the start.

Live attendance has gone up by 50% since we did that. Interesting. And you don't announce topic, right? No, I don't announce it at all. I just hop on and I'm like well you know what I Yeah. And it's still called Q&A. Yeah.

With your courses, are they pre-recorded or do you do uh live streams and then you put them on the classroom? You watch your course? Yeah. All live. All live. All live. Yeah. And do you find that that uh helps you with the churn because then it takes a long time for them to actually go through the whole course. Dude, you have 2% churn. Don't change anything. Yeah. You're the lead. You're winning on churn problem. Yeah. Don't change anything. People should be asking you. Yeah.

So basically, you want Well, so what what I try to do is I don't try to give them everything all at once. Not not because I don't want to give them everything because I want to make sure that I give them the most value possible. So I do a massive deep dive on every single topic. So every live is like two hours. So we structure it in this way. So the first 10 minutes is like meet and greets, you know, hello, how how you guys all good? And then we um wait for them to to basically come into the call. pretty much everyone. And then we uh dive deeper into the topic of the of the um presentation.

Do you present something? Do you like Do you have like slides and things like that? Yeah, slides and all of that. And then you do that daily. Daily. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Well, that's why he has 50 months average. I've only made like five slideshows in my life. That was... So, it's excruciating. It's not just slides. It's I mean, it's it's basic stuff but like just like listing off the things that I want to talk about and I dive deeper into it and then I also try and do some interactive stuff like screen sharing and actually showing them how it works. So the theory plus the practice and then towards the end I give them about half an hour of doing Q&A.

How long is this? Is that like an hour? Uh screen sharing probably about half an hour or so. So it's like you'll teach some topic deep dive and then you'll screen. So it's like this is theory and then this is the application right or tactics whatever. So so that whole that whole thing is about an hour and a half and then towards This is 90. Yeah. And then towards the end we do Q&A um in case they didn't understand something. So, but we don't like do a whole deep dive in Q&A.

And then the next day is a full Q&A where they get to answer anything they want on that previous lesson. But what we do to make sure that they get really engaged is um we prepare a list of questions and I get them to come up on camera with me and I ask and and my moderator asks them the question and then we kind of have a laugh. So I ask them the question and they go, "Oh, I didn't know." Or, "Oh, I got" and then and then if they answer it right, you know, we give them a clap. So it's like we trying to make sure that we make it really interactive.

So you like quiz? Yeah, pretty much. But how so they ask questions to you? No. So the first se So it's split into two sections. The first section is we I ask them the question, they come up on camera and they answer that question. So it's A and Q. Yeah. Yeah, if they get it right then and then then obviously we give them a round of applause. If they don't get it right, we encourage them to basically we we support them basically. And it's 30 minutes the first half and then 30 minutes the second half kind of thing. I think that can go on for also an hour and a half for the Q&A interview.

Have you how big your group and have you tried outsourcing that somebody else and had that affected chat? Uh yeah. So initially I want to do it myself to like really provide the value. I've got two other teachers on um on the in the community as well and they do that um well when I am away they're doing everything now and that hasn't affected the churn because they know that I'm going to come back and I'm going to be there.

So A and Q so you bring so you quiz them on the stuff that they did the day before. Right. They come up. Yeah. All that. And then after that. And then after that they can ask me anything on the chat and then I answer for a little bit and then it's it's also a session of like interactivity to keep to make sure that they are being heard and they are being listened to. Yeah.

What's the community about again? Nate. No, no. What's the community about again? Print on demand. Oh, it's the print on. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, so they come. So, so can you give me an example of what like what you like what would your quiz question look like to them? Okay. So, for example, we talk about a specific um uh way of finding a niche, right? And then I ask them a very very So, for example, what does a BSR mean? A prince uh a bestseller ad. So and then I ask them to give me the reason why we use BSR and how we use it to identify niches and what is the role of learning about BSR that kind of thing right? So like we really do the technical stuff also talk about the practical stuff. So how would I um use that BSI metric to identify that niche? Do you know what I mean? So it's like...

So you just call someone up. So do you you call them up and then you just ask them questions and you pull somebody else up. Is it randomly who you choose to call up? So, I've got a moderator who's on the um live call as well. Um he picks a person at random. So, they raise their hands who whoever wants to come up to to get ask that question and they get picked up randomly. And when they come up I ask them that question and then we turn it into a laugh and it's like it's a whole it's a whole vibe. So, we create a vibe about it. Yeah.

I think it's brilliant. Yeah. I think you calling them up is also like a lottery for them of like who they love it. Like we get on every single call, we get anywhere between 200 to 300 live members on the call. On every single call. Yeah. And on on our first call, we had more than 500 members. We maxed out on our webinar live webinar slot. So we literally they just had to wait. You you came here late. There's nothing we could do. So they had to watch the record. The wait list. They could have skipped the wait list.

We're also using so on that topic we're also using a weight list to uh to basically on board them onto school. They don't come in right away. So we do it but we do it with Google forms. Tell me more about that. So we do the whole menu chat funnel with Instagram. So you go Instagram. So yeah, let's walk through your because because churn is every like everything affects churn like what you promise on the front end what the lead like everything like the onboard all of this stuff affects how the expectations people come in with. So, you do Instagram, right? And I'm guessing your Instagram is about print on demand stuff. Yeah.

Okay. So, you go many chat. Yeah, we do some print on demand stuff and also some um top of the funnel stuff. So, like how to make money online and print money is one of the ways, that kind of thing. Um, if you want to get started, um, comment start. And then they they enter the they get a DM. Mhm. Um, and then they get a link to get onto the weight list. So that weight list is not just a weight list. It's actually an email sequence that teaches them everything. So that it moves them from um, you know, interest to um consideration and all that kind of stuff. And we warm them up until basically they get closed just through the email list. And then the email before the last we send them a form um where they have to answer certain questions. Why do you want to join? What is your motivation etc. So all certain questions that will uh hit all those spots, all those pain points. Mhm. That we're going to leverage to close them. Mhm. Um, and then we tell them, are you able if you were to get accepted, would you be able to pay this price? Uh-huh. So basically if they say yes, we know that we're going to join on the actual form. Yeah. Um, and then the next day we tell them you got accepted. You better sign up now. Other otherwise it's going to go to someone else.

So you never do a call with them? No. So it's all automated. I love it. I think we're leaving some money on the table um that in terms of like not calling the one. Do you think this would work? Oh, this explains why you said your conversion rate was like 17%. At the at the first. Because no one was seeing the page until they went through this thing. Yeah. So, at first it was 17% and then it start to drop in and drop. I think it's only gone down cuz you're ranking number three in Discovery and you you're getting other traffic like worsening. And he's in Arabic and so like, you know, most people visiting Discovery are in English. So, like, yeah, I think that's changed your metric. Um, but that's interesting. I've always wondered if there was a weight list feature, what it would look like. I love that, dude. I think it's really good.

Have you ever tried just going straight to the page and let them buy? We haven't tried that. We haven't tried that yet. Do you know what your So, do you know what your your metrics are on this? Uh, yes. I do. So, um, the first email open rate 55%. So weight list. So here. So the first email is like an introduction to what what the opt into the weight list. Do you know what this is? This is a separate page? Uh, so the weight list is actually not the first touch point. Okay. The touch point is an introduction of print on demand merch by Amazon what it is like that business model because everybody knows about it. So we want to educate them in that email sequence. Uh-huh. Um, so that first email is about 55% go through rate, but getting them on onto the weight list. So they they DM for something, right? And then on Minihat there's some exchanges or whatever. What's the link that you send here? So, it's the link to go to um um watch a video. Okay. Okay. And that video is an introduction of basically it talks to them about like the fact that u the the world needs more money. You need more money to toss your family. It's a VSSL basically. Got it. And then we move from that to talking about print on demand and how you can make money with print on demand. Um, and then we say there's this amazing opportunity. You need to join the weight team list. Okay. So, it's a VSSL above an opt-in. Yes. Do you know what percentage of people opt in from that page? Right. So, it's about 40% 50%. Great. Okay. So, you have 40% that opt in uh on the weight list or you know, they they put their email in. Then you have your nurture sequence. How many emails is this? Do you know before you get to the second to last? Seven. Okay. You got seven emails here. And then of the people who join your weight list, do you know what percentage of people fill out the app and then buy? I haven't got that figured out yet. It is okay because this because all I'm trying to figure out is just e earnings per click. It's just okay if we get 100, you know, 100 people, we get 40% to opt in, however many days later, uh 10% of these, so four people actually click uh click this thing. And then of these four, 17%, call it 20, it's like it's under one percentage. So, you're still ending up at one like which is what yours is direct. But what's crazy is like the final number we've got is 950 of people clicking, but then we've already got over a thousand people in our community. It's like very very high conversion rate. I'm just trying to work out the exact numbers in it's really hard to get those exact numbers. Um, and I think that they're coming from other uh channels as well, YouTube, Instagram, and we've got people on the DMs talking to them as well, converting them that way. So that is not even countable. funnel is just like yeah channels and it's really hard to like really pinpoint the exact convers.

If you put your VSSL on your about page and just set the milly chats to the to the about pins directly. That that is something that we want to test because at the moment the uh VSSL on the about page is that you're here because you got accepted. So now they feel uh kind of motivated to actually join if they don't join now their spot will go to someone else. Yeah, I don't want to break your business because you have 2% churn. So, it's very like I don't want I don't want to mess with anything, but like that would certainly be interesting to send people directly. Yeah, definitely want to try that. It might work better. I don't know if it would work because it's already 1%. So, you can already automate that if you do a weight list on your about page like um how do you like when you switch the free to paid or whatever but make it where you have to answer the questions and then you get have to get accepted. You know what I mean? Yeah, but then they can't buy. You're right. So, it would have to be a different group. Unless they were buying off platform. No, but I mean I I could do some kind of weight list feature. I just don't know what it would be and what what its purpose would be. Um, how would you capture the emails if you send them directly to page? You can.

do that through the questions that I have automated. So when they opt in and answer questions, you can already use Zapier to automate that.

So aside from >> paid though, >> so they pay. >> Well, yeah, but it would be if you turn the paid. That's what I'm saying. If you turn the paid feature off and have them answer questions, >> he wouldn't want to do that. That would be a nightmare because then you'd have to cancel all the membership requests and say, "Okay, now buy >> on your on your mini chat." I'm sure Minihat has it like if they type their email and you can store that, right?

>> Yeah. >> So maybe you just get the email on the mini chat >> and then and then basically that way it's like you get the email and then you you send them there >> and then if they don't buy then it's like, "Hey, you know what? We actually just got full so [ __ ] you." Um, now you go through my sequence. So you can hit them from both sides.

>> They don't buy. How would you like figure out whether they're bought or not and then retarget them with men? >> That is the issue like can you use like that?

>> What we could do honestly and I've thought about doing this cuz we started doing it for like the school games and school if you because there's two steps to sign up right step one is create account. Step two is payment. Right? So we started if someone completes step one but not step two, we send them an email sequence to get them to convert, right? And it's really good sequence. We made it so when you click the link in the email, it auto logs you in and takes you immediately to that payment step. So it's and that increased our conversion rate like significantly. Um, we're going to roll that out to all the groups. So if we do card abandonment sequence for you, >> there's a 40% lift to give you contacts. That's a massive lift.

>> Then it's already done just naturally cuz the only reason you want to capture emails is to follow up to people who didn't buy so that you can increase your conversion rate. What if we just increased it? >> I think that really answers it. >> Yeah. Then you don't have to send them to the page. We'll do the followup. Right. >> Beautiful. you can already retarget them and then you don't have to set up all this crazy logic, right? And our sequence will be better than yours because we can autolog them in, which is crucial cuz if you if you're like clicking a a follow-up sequence and it takes you to login, you're like, "Fuck it." >> Yeah. >> Right. But if you auto logged in straight to that form, >> is this feature coming out or? >> Yeah. >> Soon. How soon? >> Um, well, I think pretty soon. >> Ret trials on Monday. [Laughter]

>> Alex, can I ask you a really quick question on this? What do you think about Instagram pushing to YouTube? Because the YouTube audience is like amazing, right? They get they can choose which content versus this kind of funnel. I'm I'm actually I want to I want to give you a a perfect answer and um we actually so this is going to sound embarrassing for me but most of our work is at the portfolio level not at the holding company level and so we recently this month got like attribution across all 16 channels for us uh across our whole site and so we actually we segmented it to like uh so if you look at my Instagram right now it says like acquisition.comiga which is like Instagram Alex and And then there's IGL which is Instagram lea. And so like Tik Tok is TTL TTL. Like we just use that as our kind of like naming convention. And so something that was really interesting is that Instagram actually sends two and a half times the contacts to my to acquisition.com at least track through those links than YouTube which is mind-blowing to me. Um, and then third to me that was even more was uh LinkedIn was my third highest uh conversion in terms of absolute signups or like opt-ins or whatever. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, I was blown away as well. And so, and Facebook was fourth and Facebook we're like brand new on like we just started doing Facebook stuff. And so, um, all that to say, I don't think like I think there I think Instagram is I mean a lot of you guys here use Instagram. I think and in terms of like how much does it contribute to you making money like most like Tik Tok for a lot of you guys here really tough right and I Tik Tok has been atrocious for us in terms of return on effort um but Instagram and and YouTube together are the our 80% it's 87% is actually the number 87% of all of our [ __ ] is Instagram and YouTube

>> the Instagram is a Jonathan right is a paid to follow >> yeah I think I I don't want to say I overplayed YouTube but YouTube's the depth the depth thing, right? >> Yeah. >> What's What's your opinion on uh LinkedIn? Maybe like short form content on LinkedIn for B2B.

>> Um I think so we do a variety which you've probably if you follow us on LinkedIn um we we we we basically rotate between we still do because now LinkedIn's pushing short short form video if you've seen that. So we're incorporating our best hitting short form videos there. Um, and long like long form text with image just murders. It still crushes it for us on LinkedIn. And the big thing with LinkedIn in terms of growth has been it's basically it's actually comments. So LinkedIn is super overindexed on comments in terms of how you grow. And so like if I were to comment on like this happened the other day. So there's this guy who I can't remember but he tagged me in something. And so I just was like I left like a a three sentence comment and I think his biggest post ever had like 50 likes and then like I commented and it has like 1500 likes um for the post like it's because basically the way LinkedIn is like if you comment on someone's stuff your entire audience sees where you comment and it shows up in so the so if I comment something in your post your post would show up on all the people who follow me's newsfeed. It's it's super leveraged on comments. And so basically the objective is to maximize comments on LinkedIn in terms of growth. Um, now we're not very like leave a comment if you like I don't I don't really do that but I I do like having more thoughtprovoking stuff that creates conversation. Um and I think that's been like that's been super effective for us. Like we're doing really well on LinkedIn.

>> Do you think LinkedIn's better for B2B or >> BC? For sure. >> I mean it's for sure it's better to platform. >> You don't think it's great for like B2C? Uh, it's better for B2B. >> Okay. >> I don't think it's bad for B2. I just think it's it's it's a B2B platform. So, yeah.

>> Oh, food. Okay. >> Cool question. So, >> I can smell it. I'm like starving. Yeah.

>> When we first started, we said that we're only going to accept 50 people. >> Now, we got 50 people pretty much instantly. And then we opened up new spaces and we told them we added support so that we can support the extra people just >> so they don't think that we're just playing the game. Yeah. >> Um, and then we got to a thousand people pretty quickly, like within two weeks or so. >> Yeah, we added more support. So, we had to say that. >> So, 200 times you added more support at 50. >> Crazy. So, we can't really play that card anymore, I feel. So, >> why not? >> You need more support. I mean, it's not like you don't need more support. So we started with 50 people and then immediately within two weeks we increased to a thousand. So like they have to see that we've actually done something way way extra for for us to like increase the amount of people um that join us and we were also playing on on the fact that um it was uh it was very limited. >> Sure. >> Um so what would you do in this case to to um scale and play that? So one is you could say you're adding support which you still I think very well could but the alternative is it's more about limiting the flow rather than the than the absolute count. So put it on like we can only we can only handle 50 new people a week with my so instead of saying on the absolute size you just say how many can we handle in terms of new and then again you can play the same like okay I have to I can only do 50 and then over time you're like I can only do a hundred every new week because I I need more staff to handle that to give you a good experience. I think it works the same way. just put it on the on the inflow rather than on the total.

>> And when we're doing the waiting list thing, can we still play that um with the straight with the link go straight to um the about page? >> No, I don't think so. >> So, how would you do how would you do it then? In >> I'm saying I don't think you could do that game if you're going straight to the about page. But the question is just all about it's just what's the conversion rate on the it's just really like what's >> is that unnecessary? >> What >> it like that's my question. Well, yeah, that's fundamentally we just have to look at it's just earnings per click. >> If you got the same conversion without that, your life's better.

>> So, how in my case, how would you create um scarcity? I think the point that Sam and I are making is that if you if you run the because you're losing a lot in the friction of this. You might just >> you might just get three sales instead of point >> maybe you don't need scarcity >> like iPhone doesn't have it doesn't sound like you need scarcity if you went from 50 to a thousand in two weeks.

>> Are you p in Arabic? >> Yeah. >> There's nobody else that does that like in the world. >> There is. But I'm I'm the biggest in in that in in the the whole country. >> Yeah. So, I think it's it's worth the test. The the only the only thing I would keep my eye on is um is just if these members churn differently than the than the weight list members. That's the only thing I would really pay attention to.

>> The food. >> Yeah. Sweet. Let's get food. All right. >> Thank you for the soft. >> So, uh good lunch. Yes. Little Chipotle. Everyone in that nice post lunch dip. Are we out of the dip? We're on the upswing. Um, if you guys did notice, my team set up this like kind of crazy set of stuff on the back wall. So, uh, just to give you guys some insight at the end, um, I think for those of you who hop on the on the weekly calls, I am um I'm going to try and beat the control of the VSSL on the about page for school. And, uh, I think for a lot of you guys, one of the like one of the highest ROI tests you can run is the is the is the VSSL. And if you're not even sure what to test, just test the first like minute or two because that'll be when you have the most drop off. And like we did this with one of our portfolio companies and we got a a 20% lift on a webinar that was that was doing um 200 no 350,000 a day. Uh and so we got a 20% lift on that which is pretty sweet. And so um yeah, recommend. But all we did was we had a three-hour webinar. We just re-recorded three variations of the first 5 minutes and we found a winner that beat the control by a lot. And so, um, we beat the original school page by adding the VSSL. And so, this time I'm going try and beat the VSSL overall. But anyways, I think most of you guys could just make more by just having that in, especially if you have conversion on the page.

>> So I had um I think like three of you asked me a similar question, so I figure I'll just hit on it and then I'm sure it'll spawn into other stuff, but it was around um basically like getting more out of like the small team that you because some of you guys who here has like at least one person who works for you. Okay, cool. So, um, this is actually kind of fun for me because I haven't I haven't directly managed a team in a while. Um, and so I'll walk through, uh, what worked really well for me. And then you can do whatever you want with that. And so I came in, mind you, to fix an apartment that was just sucking. Um, and so the first thing was was questioning the requirements. meaning why are you guys all doing what you're doing right now? Can you explain that to me? And so the thing is is a lot of times people will fill their time with work, but that work doesn't actually produce anything meaningful. Like they make they do stuff and they're not like ill-intentioned. They're not trying to destroy the business, but they're very much just just doing things just wasting time, right? And so once we're like, okay, I know that these few things uh like most of the things don't matter. So then I deleted. So I said, okay, I need you guys to just stop doing all of this stuff because it's not driving anything. And so this is important because the first thing I want to do is like clear space so that we can then optimize what's left. So, it's like, okay, these are the only two things or three things that you do that drive an outcome in the business, and now I want you to take all of your time and just put it on these one or two items. The next thing was dragging up timelines. And so it's like, okay, these are the two or three things that are most important for this role in general. How long will it take you to do X? And then I would usually get a response that would be something like, uh, I can get it done by next Monday. And I'd be like, okay, how many hours do you think it will take you to do? And then sometimes a person would say something like, I think it'll take me four hours. It be like, okay, well, it's noon now. Why Why don't you just get it done by 4 today? And then it's like, oh, well, I have all this. Oh, no, no, no. We deleted all that. Why can't you do it by 4:00 today? It's like, well, if I don't have to do all this stuff, then I I can do that. It's like, okay, cool. Then I'll meet you at four. Then you can show me what you did. And so when we speed up timelines, I increase communication frequency. More like not like sitting on meetings, but just like, hey, quick morning. Like it can be five minutes. Just like you're on this, you're on this, you're on this. Great. How long will that take you? How long will that take you? What's blocking you? Let's move that out of the way. Okay. And if someone brings up something, it's like, "Oh, well, you told me you had to do this other thing." It's like, "Well, if that is more important, do that first. How many more hours you got left on that?" Okay. And then we'll do the other thing. And then finally, whenever possible, it's like, is there anything here that we can automate or that we can that we can put some sort of tech behind so that we don't have to have you doing it over and over and over again? But the the three big steps are two, three, four. But you have to, you know, before you can delete stuff, you have to figure out why it's even important. And um this has just been like I feel like it's been a it's been top of mind and like two or three of you guys asked me about this during the the lunch break and I think some stuff was around you know operations and so a lot of you guys have your like your first teams your first few people and most of those people have no idea how what they do translates to the business making money and I think at the very least even asking them like do you know how what you do makes the business money? A lot of them, I'll bet you, will have no idea. Seriously. And they're like, "You do support. How does that make the business money?" It's like, and if they can't translate what what they do every day into how it makes the business money, they certainly won't do it by accident, right? And so, it's like making sure that they understand how they tie into the economics of the business. But this process has been uh super effective. And so I I took an apartment over and they were kind of floundering a little bit and um I think in six days it it was like okay the first day I took like three hours to figure out what all the problems were and so then I was like okay guys so these are the three big problems of this department. We're only going to do number one until number one is done and I don't care about anything else you have to do. We're just going to solve problem one and we're going to meet twice a day until we do that. And so then it was just simply breaking down what are the tasks that are required to solve number one. And so for for example, this was I told you earlier I was doing the attribution thing. So I was like for three weeks I hopped on these weekly meetings and I was like what the [ __ ] are people saying right now? It's like this is marketing. I I have a pretty good understanding of this and I have no idea what any of you guys are saying. And so uh the real thing that was missing was data. And I think a lot of you guys have this this common theme of like you're just guessing a lot which is you know like in the beginning you need to do [ __ ] fine but once things start working if you want to make your guesses like stop wasting time on stuff a lot of times you're doing solutions that you're just shooting blind. It's like I want to I want to test this new thing out. Well it's like we don't even know if the new thing is going to work better until you know how well the current thing's working in terms of click to close. It's like well we have to measure it first. And so the first thing we did was put put attribution in place. It's like well shoot there's seven different funnels and we have 16 different traffic sources that are running through these. And it's like right then we're going to solve them one at a [ __ ] time. It's like but what about all these other broken things? It's like not a priority until we have data. We can't do anything. And so it's just like that's who it is. Like okay so let's start with the first one. This is how we're gonna fix the first one. Everyone on board. And so once we if you have a team of people this is a little bit more you know advanced here especially if you have more generalists. So like Sam is a bunch of developers. So like they're going to have probably more niche down stuff than probably a team of that's more generalist. But when we're doing the assignments, I just think to myself, what are they doing? So hey, that's a great idea. I think that'll solve that problem. Cool. Who's doing that? Who's owning that? Okay, great. When can you get that done by? And I I I prefer to ask for how many hours will that take rather than when can you get that done by? Because you would be amazed at how much padding people give themselves. You ask like when can you get that done by? They'll say next week. And you say how many hours? They say three hours. And you're like okay why does that take a week? And so if you can speed up the the the cadence of deadlines basically. And I've I've talked about this between like the difference between end of week and end of day. You move the whole team at seven times the speed. And a lot of the things that you're doing in the early days are not super timeconuming. you're not rebuilding the architecture of school, right? You might just need to like send the [ __ ] email. Does that make sense? So, just anyways, just something that that's been helpful for me in terms of running small teams.

>> So, how do you build a team especially um finding like what roles needs to be automated sorry outsourced and then finding like the best people for that? So, for example, for organic like for for like your um like editing like how do you figure all that out? >> We try to over time bring anything that's core to value creation inhouse. Now, if we want to get into a new platform, for example, then I'm more open to bringing on a vendor who understands the platform well with the clear intention that I want to learn from them to eventually bring it in house. And so sometimes, so like Michael's right there behind, Michael was a vendor of ours for YouTube and did an awesome job. And then I said, "Hey, you should sell your agency and come work for me full-time." And then Michael said yes. And so that's what we did. Um, but it's really that's not always what it is obviously, but you know, I had a a YouTube vendor before Michael that it's like, okay, I learned from that guy and then I started bringing kind of like a base level of YouTube in and then Michael was so much better at it that I was like, okay, cool. Well, how do I get this guy in? And so over time your your the requirements of talent go up and what is required to bring that type of person on also goes up.

>> Would you rather train someone to become like to become that skill or would you rather hire someone to get to that skill? >> So I think that the business has requirements and then there's you want to hire for the small skill deficiency because then it's just like how many resources are required to fill the gap between where they are and where I need them to be. And some people have node deficiencies and they're the perfect, you know, thing for the business. Those people tend to be more expensive.

>> So just can you afford that? That's the >> Yeah. And so like when you're starting out, you hire a lot of people that are typically underskilled and then you have to make up for a ton of it with training and a lot of the stuff that you're doing in the early days is not super complex. It's usually you. It's like, hey, this is how I post. This is how I respond to DMs. This is how we, you know, get someone, you know, someone someone has an issue with their credit card, this is what we do. Like it's a lot of simple stuff. um as you as the business advances and gets bigger then you have deeper expertise that typically becomes required. So is that kind of like the same that you wrote there? Is that also what you'd use as like a training process to like >> this is just usually how I optimize a system in general. Like if you have a team of people, it's like how do I how do I increase throughput? It's like all right, what is the stuff that matters most? Delete everything else. Reallocate resources towards the thing that you get the highest return on. Speed up timelines and then if there's thing that I can automate, it further speeds it up. That's fundamentally it. And then in terms of what who when is just like that's just my mental framework when I'm talking to the team where when we're like thinking about what what what activities or tasks have to get create you know completed I'm just saying okay that's the most important that's the what okay great who's owning this great you are all right how many hours will this take

>> so what's your what's your I guess what's your framework or process for training someone in the most effective way to get the most out of them >> well now you're just talking about how do humans learn >> yes a behavior yes how would you do that >> um a lot of of it comes down to god a lot I mean it depends on the role right so like we can't train it's like hey how do I can I teach somebody to code uh for 10 years it's like it's probably not worth it it's probably worth just finding someone who has 10 years of coding experience right >> let's say sales >> yeah well sal yeah sales is straightforward sales is like you have to get them to practice the script they watch automated recordings um of other people closing sales uh we have typically like twice a day touch points with the manager for their first two weeks. Um during the the the touch points, we are listening to them go through the script and we set the the the expectation that we're going to interrupt them 30 to 40 times uh of them going through it. So that's like if we're interrupting you 40 times, it means everything's going okay. Don't worry about it. And so while the um salesman is saying uh the script and we're roleplaying with them and we're responding as though we're a prospect, if they say it wrong, we say, "Stop. Say it like this. Try it again." And then they do it again. We say, "Awesome job. do it again. Awesome job. Do it again. Great. We keep going. And so it might take us, you know, an hour to just get through the first however long. But we want to drill it. And so the only way, especially with like speaking patterns, like you drill through repetition. And so you just want to have as many feedback loops as you can as quickly as possible um with them. And then we give them a half calendar once we think that they're proficient. And if they do a good job, we expand to a full calendar. If they do a bad job, we get them back down to to zero. And we keep them. And then if they're they still can't pick it up, they're out.

>> So repeating this back to is pretty much you take someone through a feedback loop and you just want to reward or punish them as fast as possible as soon as possible when you Okay. >> And the way that we do that is like literally like head nods while they're going like thumbs up. Mhm. Pause. Try it again. Say like this. And so a lot of it is also understanding the variables that someone kind of presents with for a sale. So I think Jack, you're saying this about like how AI has 12 whatevers. Like for for sales guys, for us it's like we use the font of the script to indicate basically as a tone guide. So it's like italics means this, call caps means this, bold means this, underline means this. And so that way the guys start to like learn how to read through that tone. Uh and so you know, if something's uh you know, italicized, it's like, okay, slow down here. If something's in all caps, it's like, okay, speed up here. If something's uh if one word is bolded, uh you emphasize it, right? something's you know underlined then it's like you mean your voice in flex at the end so it's a question that make sense >> thank you >> could you share a model of that like could we show the Google doc of a script >> I'll see what yeah I'll see what Jacob's got I I don't even have access to it I have a guy who has a guy underneath of him who then reports to the sales team yeah >> yeah shoot

>> um we currently um scale uh fast regarding the size of our business with five team members and we at the moment have so many things to do and we don't know how to prioritize. What would you say is like an efficient system for us to put in place in order to follow up with all the task we have with the team members? Is it okay? We need to put a paste like >> notebook. >> Notebook >> numbers. >> So, how do you figure out >> [ __ ] I run school like that. That's a lot more complicated, I'm pretty sure. >> How'd you know which numbers are the ones that you should be optimizing? >> I mean, like you write down the >> like number one, number two, number three. >> He doesn't mean those numbers. >> First of all, you just write it down cuz otherwise you'll stress yourself out thinking what's one, what's two. You just write it all down and then you go. Then I tend to just think, okay, what can I get rid of? That's a that's a nice way to get a quick boost in your spirit. >> Oh, it really does just be like actually I don't think this is important. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's why delete is the second like why do I even do this? Can I delete it? Great. It's like >> and often I like to ask someone else with that because I'm like is this really important? And if they're like I don't think so. So then I'm like, "Okay, like cross." Um cuz sometimes it can be hard to make that choice on your own. Um and then you get the list down and then you think, "Okay, what's the most important thing first?" Like what's number one and then what's number two and then what's number three? And then you you find that you generally only need to know one, two, three. Because by the time you do those, the list the priorities change anyway. and they might be new items.

>> It's a huge point. I like I want to emphasize that if if you actually solve priorities in order of the priority, the first thing like if you solve the biggest bad thing, you'll often times find that the the number two and three on the list might actually not be as important anymore and something else now might be what would have been number two and now becomes number one. And so like reassessing basically make instead of trying to obsess on like what's number nine versus number it's like no one it doesn't [ __ ] matter. Like you have to figure out what the main things you have to do are. Do those and then the whole list will change because new problems will emerge when you solve old ones.

>> So how often do you update the list? Like every time you done with the number one you >> Yeah. I think I mean that's how we do it. Like once we once we like I was like when I was talking about the the department there I was like until we finish this thing we're not doing anything else. >> Okay. >> Once we finish that I was like all right now I have these two other things. Which one's now more important? Okay this one. Because fundamentally you just have to figure out what you need to do now. The rest of the list like is just like, okay, this is a rough order, but it doesn't matter because I'm not doing it.

>> Okay, so one at a time. >> So you talk a lot about >> that's like companywide priorities, right? Like obviously you still have to repositive support tickets and, >> you know, still need to advertise and do the normal stuff. >> So you talk a lot about like 100 golden BBs. It's just doing the same thing over and over. But I guess what's your like big three, what's the way to put this? Big three Hiroshima bombs on like >> So no, no. So it's I get what you're saying. >> You'll have a priority. So maybe it's like, hey, we need to reduce churn, whatever. So that's the big thing, but then underneath of reducing churn, it's like here's the hundred things that we're going to do to try and reduce churn. Now, of those hundred things, what's the most important, right? And you do the first one and all of a sudden it's like, oh shoot, churn just cut in half. Well, maybe these other things aren't even important. Or maybe you do the first one, doesn't matter at all. You're like, [ __ ] that didn't work. You try the next one.

>> So yeah. So what I meant by that is like within that churn like within those 100 do you usually find a commonality like the again Hiroshima bonds of like what's the most important or what you see repeated >> honestly like you just guess >> that's it. >> Yeah I think there's a lot of guess work like as much as like you have the key data you know you have your key data points that exist in business but you know we were talking earlier about like how do you get better at stuff it's like well you do a lot of [ __ ] and then you look at the top 10% of the things you did and you say okay what did these things have different than these other things I'll try and do more of that stuff. The hard part is figuring out what were the variables. So it's like, okay, these 10 these 10 videos I made or these 10 sales calls I did. Uh I coughed in the beginning of of you know three of these top 10. Is that important? It's like I don't think it's important. So that's where like a little bit of it's like well I coughed on some of the ones that didn't do well. So I guess there it was on both sides. So no, I'm not going to look at that. I had pink socks on this day. Huh. Maybe that's right. But like again you get into like huh I did start this one with an agenda. These ones I started with an agenda and these ones I kind of didn't. So maybe having an agenda at the beginning of the call is a good idea. All right, next from here on out, I'm going to just use agendas at the beginning of the call. That's the only thing I'm going to change and then you do it and then it works or it doesn't work, right? And you just keep going because there's always going to be like certain amounts of random uh variables that enters because life changes like life's dynamic. And so that's where that's I mean fundamentally I think that's how a lot of innovation happens by accident.

>> So innovation is like thresh >> kind of. Is there is there cuz I feel like Sam you might I mean you guys are both in the same thing but I feel like is there a way you figure out which kind of [ __ ] to throw at the wall? >> Yeah. By throwing [ __ ] at the wall. >> Yeah. But you do not like pitching. >> Oh, you start to learn patterns. >> Yeah. >> That's the that's the quote 100 like that's the the hard part is identifying the observation. It's kind of like being quiet and listening. It's like I did a lot of [ __ ] and it's like okay, now I'm looking at these like what am I like what were the variables? Like that's actually in my opinion the hard like you have to take action. Most people don't do anything. Okay, cool. I did action. Now I can identify the top 10. But it's looking at those and like what did they do? So we're talking we're like okay because the thing is is you're going to get a ton of false positives. So if you did everything you're like okay well the print on demand group does all these things for for delivery. All of those things might not be the reason that his turn is 2%. It might be just the whole weight list thing. I don't know. It might not be. And so that's where the the unknown thing is. It's like, okay, there's 20 things that we talked about. Which ones are the ones that contribute the most to the outcome? And so that's where that's where the deletion gets kind of interesting because like if you were to delete one of those items and your turn didn't change, then it means it didn't matter at all. And until like and that's where like deleting first, I mean I think Sam and I both share that in terms of process is like if you can keep deleting, you delete until something happens because then at that point you can always add it back and you know what actually drives output. Which is why Munger talks about like, okay, I'm going to start by how do I kill this business in the fewest moves possible. It's like, okay, well, if I kill the business in three moves, then those three things are probably the most important things to do.

>> That's the only way you can tell if something's actually necessary is by removing it. Because otherwise, you're like, I think it's doing something. Yeah. So, I was trying to simplify the feed like last week and I removed the category label from the posts. Did anyone even notice that? >> See? Yeah. >> Someone told me it was a glitch. >> Yeah. Some people thought it was a glitch. Some It's funny. The woman, a few women that complained to me in DMs, they were all intuition experts. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. And I was like, "Okay, that's the level of like sensitivity that people need to notice this." But that showed me everything I needed to know. Um, and I put it back because I was feeling the same way. Um, but yeah, like killing the audio room. No one complained either. So there's the way you make a product better is by removing stuff. And if no one complains, you know it wasn't important. But then if people complain, you got to see who they are, why they're complaining, and maybe it's still not important. Um, but it's the only way you can actually know if something's important is to remove it. It's easy to remove something from your to-do list because you haven't even done it yet.

>> It's the best. >> Yeah. But I think what you're getting at like the by this Hiroshima bomb thing that you keep saying is probably like more of a question like what am I optimizing for, right? That's how I think you get the big breakthroughs. Cuz just optimizing for something and just throwing [ __ ] at the wall trying to get it's only going to be incremental. But if someone comes along and rethinks everything and optimizes for something totally different, that turns out to be better, then that's how they'll beat you.

>> Do you know what I mean? So I think that's where you get the big gains from. >> So it's like everybody here's like obviously I'm assuming everyone here is optimizing for money, right? It's like but what's what's under that? So you're talking about what's underturn. >> No, but what's interesting is the people that make the most money don't optimize for it. Then what are they going for? What are you going for? >> The best product, a billion users. >> So product is the main thing. >> Yeah. Product and users and people using it and and having an emotional relationship with it where they say, "I love it." Right? Those kinds of things.

>> How are you truly staying stimulated towards that goal? Because this school games run thing, especially the last like five days, was the most stimulated we've ever been to achieve a business result. >> That's cuz there was a Cyber Truck on the line. >> Whose Cyber Truck is out there? Is that yours or >> I saw Hanie. I was like, is that is that what's that? >> I ran it. Mine's back in Miami, right? >> Oh, I was like, what's Hanie? Okay, cool. >> But really though, are you staying in alignment with the bigger goals? Like are you just like always thinking of the bigger bigger goal or is there a weekly thing like I think the tasks are determined like it's determined by the milestone of now right like we didn't care about fulfillment we just wanted to drive sales at first right um well it depends on the vision and like the long-term goal right so that's how you get motivated I think is you're making progress ress towards it. And then it's things like hiring more smart people like you get excited about the new feature you might be working on like the maps or something or this on boarding thing. So it becomes more like project based but all of them contribute to this bigger thing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Um, and I think it's exciting for me. If you can make something so good, then maybe you it grows on its own. Maybe you don't need to advertise. Maybe you, you know, like maybe all of these really interesting things happen.

>> So, you're trending you're tracking towards making something that sells itself that's so good that you know you don't have to advertise. >> Well, that would be great. Yeah, >> I mean that's the goal. Yeah, >> but yeah, seeing things like that guy paying 50k to hold school festival in Germany with 500 people, that was pretty cool. Um, people wanting to do that or like there was an Ireland meetup that happened without me. Seeing the podcast run without me, some of the videos are getting like 12,000 views now. I'm not the guest or the interviewer. It's the ultimate YouTube channel. Um, so like you know those things really I really like those seeing those things.

>> Yeah. What about um most of the general population attributing the school brand to one of Horos's new projects and uh you know like are you looping yourself back in on the I mean people obviously meet you when they come here but um and how are you reflecting on that like you're now the face of school. Is that affecting your other ventures? you know, like how was that? >> A few months ago, we had a school games winner. I think it was in April, maybe. They walked up to Sam and they shook his hand. They asked him, "What community are you part of?" >> And that was and that was awesome for me. Like, >> yeah, >> he was so happy about it. I was like, "Oh, how do you feel about that?" >> Cuz I knew they were here cuz they like the product, right? So I was like perfect. Um yeah.

>> So then Sam I have to ask you then if product is your main focus right that's what you're optimizing for then what do you measure? >> Yeah that's hard with a good product. Um but things like so you can see things like usage right like people if people use it that's a good sign. How long they use it for. if they keep using it, right? But then like that's a good start, I think. But I more look at like what does it feel like to use? And that you can only experience by using it yourself, right? So frustration. So you don't generally know if something feels good, but you know when something feels bad. And once you remove everything that feels bad, the good's there, but it's harder to find the good. That's why you just keep removing the bad, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um, like the guy that invented the iPhone said the key was just identifying frustration and removing it until there was nothing left instead of trying to make it great. That was how you made it great.

>> So, just intuition. Well, removing frustration to the point that it a child could pick it up and was just using it. A grandma could pick it up and was just using it without being told. Yeah. Um, so it's a lot more subjective to get to that point. And then you look at what people say about it. If people really love it to the point where they start doing these conferences and [ __ ] and flying around the world and that's a good sign. Um, yeah, but it's a lot more subjective and hard to measure than like money. But there is this good thing and it's kind of good timing, especially with how shitty Boeing's going right now. Um, but they used to have the mission, their mission statement was to build the world's best airplanes and I think they had the most valuable company in the world while that was their mission. Then they got a new CEO and his goal his he changed the mission statement to maximize shareholder returns and it bombed and now they're [ __ ] Like because they're trying to maximize shareholder

Returns like you forget that you make airplanes, right? Yeah. And when they start failing, you have a real issue. So school shareholders shouldn't expect anything of

>> No, but see, see, but this is fascinating because that's how you get them the most. See what I mean? Like it's still not clear, but that's how you give them the most returns by building the best thing. Yeah, cuz he's giving the Boeing shareholders, he's screwing them right now, right? But he used to be giving them was a different guy. He used to be giving them really good returns when they were making the best thing. So, that's what I'm talking about with this, like what you're optimizing for. That's how you get the the big gain.

>> And if you think about like, like the big, like the the bombs, right? Um, I think about like my big strategic moves is if I only were able to do like if only one thing were true a year from now or three years from now, and if only that thing were true, how like what would what would be all the downstream consequences of that? I think Tim Ferriss talks about his like big domino, like how can I just, what's the biggest domino I can knock down that if I knock that down, it makes all the other dominoes irrelevant? And so, like to take a hypothetical extreme with you guys, it's like if I were able to get every single student to get a perfect SAT score, like what would that business look like? Probably be rich.

>> Well, right. So then your marketing would not be a concern, that like all of these other things would would fall away because it's like, if we just saw for that, then we will make a shitload of money. That'll happen for sure because if you have the best, like again, so it's like, but I think to Sam's point, you think differently because you're solving a different problem, and so the solutions, even us talking about this is like, how do I grow my school community versus how do I get people the best SAT scores are very different questions, and so you think about very different answers to those questions.

>> Do you think the latter? So, how do I get people better? We get better results?

>> Absolutely.

>> Okay. I mean, well, think, I mean, what do you think? If everybody who went through your thing got a 1600 or whatever the, you know, scoring they're using nowadays?

>> But what do they really want? Why do they even care about the SAT score?

>> College, like the higher score you get, the better college.

>> So, can't you, what if you got more? What is the best college?

>> Like Harvard.

>> Stanford.

>> Like the big name.

>> So, if you got 100% of everyone into Harvard?

>> You could do that.

>> Yeah. People would pay every.

>> You make a lot of money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

>> A lot, a lot. A lot of money.

>> Right?

>> And the thing is, is like, a lot of these ideals, like I mean, with, you know, Boeing, it's like, we make airplanes or we make the best airplanes, but like, a lot of it's just, it's an ideal that you never really achieve. It's like the be like the best. Well, it's like technology improves, engines get better. It's like, and they keep getting better. And like, whether you get 100% of people into Harvard is different than whether you are actively trying every day to get 100% of people into Harvard.

>> You do it for the sake of itself.

>> Right? And that's also how you attract better people because then they're like, I would I want that. I want to make the the best community platform in the world and connect people. Like, I I want to be a part of that. I want to build the best airplanes. But no one's like, you know what I want to do today? I want to maximize shareholder value, right? So a part of that, like long-term, like the mission stuff does. So, okay, I'll tell you a quick side note. So, I so I told you Simon Squid came out yesterday, and we both had almost an identical experience in terms of post-sale. And so, um, he and I both came to, like I started with the idea of like, maybe I'll start a charity. And so then I thought about that more, and then I was like, charities aren't self-sustaining. They have to, it's always about like getting other people to give you money. I was like, that kind of sucks. And I was like, well, maybe I'll do like a nonprofit and like build something that way. And then at the very end, I was like, well, no, it's like to benefit all stakeholders, it's like you need to have money to reinvest and grow [ __ ] right? And so then it was like, oh [ __ ] I just basically figured out how to have a business with a mission. Like, and so, like, it's like re, you know, like re-inventing the wheel, but if you start from like, okay, I want to do this really, like if you want to do this amazing thing in the world, you end up deriving what a mission-based business is like, you just re-derive it from zero. And he had the exact same thing with with what he's doing with Bank, which is a for-profit business. Acquisition.com is a for-profit thing. School is a for-profit business.

>> So, to summarize, both you're saying pretty much, you're saying make the goal to be the best at that thing and automatically everything else kind of optimize for itself.

>> Kind of, like you have to make sure you don't run out of money. Like, so you, you're trying to make the best thing and deliver the best experience to your customers, right? But you have to survive to do that, right? Because if you die, you can't help anyone. So, it's balancing those two things.

>> How do you find the upper limit for like, or even lower limit for how much you want to like optimize for money versus the best product?

>> It's like survival, but you, because you need talent, like that meat requires money. So you do need some kind of growth, and also for the talent to be interested, you need some kind of growth, right? So, like, you need a minimum amount of growth, I think, to to fund the development of the thing and to attract the the caliber of talent that you need. So that's a minimum requirement for that side. Um, but then, then you should be putting everything that's remaining into the longer term, like vision of it. Do you know what I mean?

>> Kind of. Could you expand on that? I'm a little confused.

>> Well, school's not trying to really make any profit. We just pump everything back in. And so, I'm not, we're trying to grow and we're, cuz we need to hire people and we need to show growth to be able to hire good people because they want to be in something that's growing. But otherwise, we're trying to make the best thing possible, cuz we believe that'll be the best way to grow longer term, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. But we're not trying to like make profit right now.

>> But you need the profit to show that the.

>> No, we don't need profit. We just need growth.

>> We just need growth, if that makes sense.

>> Put this in context, like if we wanted to make school profitable, it would be very easy and very profitable immediately. We just would slow down growth. And so, it's like we spend money to advertise. We spend money on bringing new talent in. And so, it's like we could just say, like, we're not going to reinvest at the same rate into the product. So, that's main stop hiring people. And we're not going to advertise to get more people to find out about the product. And so, all of that cash that would go into more developers and more marketing just becomes bottom line profit. But we just would rather just grow that much more next month. This is why this is why having this is why long-term having a product that that that keeps customers is so important because if you if you keep customers, then you're willing to forego profits a day because you know that that person's going to keep paying you. And so you're willing to take what they're paying you today and tomorrow and the next day to go get more customers. If that person stays for three months, then it's like, well, [ __ ] I just gotta like, I got to go get more customers again just to stay alive, to stay the same, to stay the same size. And so that's why I mean, obviously, you know, Sam's coming from the the software perspective. Um, but often times like in in traditional, you know, tech stuff, you you keep building until you get retention. Like you don't want to scale it. You don't want to pour more water into the bucket until you know that the water that's that the little droplets you put in actually hold it, hold there because then at that point, then you can pour more in and then it does stick. But it's like you really want to have essentially a cost to acquire a permanent customer.

>> And so right now, a lot of you guys get transactions, but those people walk out the other side really quickly. The the real like wealth alchemy happens when you say, okay, I mean, if you look at the biggest companies in the world, look at like Chase, right? Bank. It's like, okay, they know that once someone gets on Chase, they pretty much just stick. And so, at that point, they're willing to just spend whatever it takes to get more people on because they know that whatever day they feel like they're going to have this massive nut of scale, uh, that they can they can they can milk whatever profits they want from. Obviously, Chase is 100, you know, plus year old company, and so they do make profits too, and they know how to reinvest and whatnot. Especially when you're smaller, the growth matters if you're building something. If there's holes on the back, you're not building anything. And that's why like that's that's why it's tough a lot of times in the beginning because you don't know how to get good. And so you do sell people in the beginning mostly to get feedback, to get better, rather than selling people in the beginning in order to like make your nut. Of course, you have to survive, you got to eat, whatever. But like the amount that people expand their lifestyles relative to what they put back into making the product better is usually the the discrepancy between businesses that stay for the long term.

>> Would you say you're still like, for acquisition.com, would you say you're still at that point, even though like you've advanced so much in business? Would you.

>> I don't know what you mean.

>> Would you still say you're like learning from each business, like how to improve, or are you just implementing more for them? We learn lots. I learn stuff every day from all the portfolio companies. But for me, acquiring a permanent customer is, I buy a business, it's permanent. And then I take capital, and then I buy another one, it's permanent. And so, it's like, so the the equivalent chunked up a level is I could take all the distributions from all the companies and somehow expand my lifestyle to an obscene like level. Uh, or I could take that cash and then buy another company. And then that continues to re, like those are all permanent assets.

>> So, thinking about that permanency is like that LTV to CAC ratio you talk about.

>> Yeah. And the ideal, you know, LTV is one that just continues to grow because no one leaves.

>> And the CAC stays the same. Okay.

>> And CAC sometimes goes up, but you also are getting more customers or continuing to pay you. I don't know if someone's raised what's up.

>> Oh, yeah. What's up, Daniel?

>> Yes. So, just curious because we're talking about.

>> Just pain. We're talking about that.

>> What'd you say?

>> I said there's enough. [Laughter]

>> What'd you hear last month?

>> All right. What do you want? What do you want?

>> In terms of making a great product is amazing, but then capturing those testimonials is another challenge. With Gym Launch, did you have a specific strategy on getting like the before and afters and the testimonials of like the right time, the right outreach method?

>> Yeah. So, we had, um, here, I'll pull it up. We had, uh, we had seven ways that we captured them. So, the first thing we did was, uh, we had customer life cycle ads, which is basically like, most of you guys record your sales, right? You record your setting calls, you record your sales calls, you record your onboarding calls. If you don't, please record them. It's automatic. It's not hard to do. You record, and then all you do is you figure out who's successful and you pull them on a call. Have them tell you what their success was. And then all you do is you search for those people inside of your recordings and you find the other three calls. And now you have a journey for each of those customers that's right there and it's automated. So you can basically be like, "Oh, so you can like pull to the part of the sales call where it's like, hey, what was your, uh, like what are you here for? I'd like to make, you know, I'd like to find funding for my credit score or whatever, right? And then it's, you know, at the onboarding call, they say the same thing. And then at 30 days, uh, they're like, oh yeah, you know, I'm struggling with this thing and this thing, and then it just, you just show the time lapse and it's like at day 60, like, holy [ __ ] I just got funded or whatever it is. Right. So the whole customer journey.

>> Exactly. And you just do it in 60 seconds. So that's number one. Number two is to do a sword and unlock, which is, um, having an award for some sort of big milestone. Like, almost all you guys have some, like you guys have your touchdown, right? Uh, you guys have maybe a perfect score, or just like, maybe it's a 100-point improvement. You want it to be something, you know, that people kind of aspire towards. And so we'd say, "Hey, once you hit this milestone, you know, send a video of yourself saying that you, you did that thing to, you know, marketing@gymlaunch.com and, uh, and then post that video inside of the community and then tag this person." And so when you do that, then we get the video and we get the screenshot of the post. So we have two kind of like versions of the testimonial, and then they get whatever the the award is. Right now, you can either make the, like for us, we just, we didn't even unlock anything. We just gave him a sword. Yeah. Cuz it was gym lords. That was like our, our whole thing. And so the thing is, is that then when you do have your events, which I recommend you do, when people come in person to get the sword, everybody lines up on stage, and then you get another testimonial because they're all together, all collecting their swords, which means something. Um, I also would have, uh, the unlock. You guys already have that feature inside of school. Like, if you have a bonus course or something, it's just like, just send me a video about how great you're doing, and we will unlock this for you. Really simple. Um, I had my team, uh, at the end of every week, uh, search their DMs for keywords and search the group for keywords. So it'd be like sales, leads, cash, closed, whatever, like whatever the keywords list of wins are. Now, school makes it easy because it has a wins column, but back in my day, uh, we had to search for all those terms, and then, um, we would screenshot all the new posts and then upload those into a folder, um, that had that had happened. And then when we would send them the sword, uh, in the mail, we would have them do an unboxing video, and they would send that to us, too. So, basically, every one of those success stories gave us a post, which we screenshotted. Uh, we would be able to get the customer journey. We'd be able to do the, uh, them sending an unboxing video. We'd have the video itself that they made the post about, and we'd have them on stage receiving it as well. And so, it's, we were able to get five testimonials from every single person by doing it that way. And then obviously, the bonus unlock is just extra. Does.

>> That help? It's heavy duty.

>> Yeah. It's like we're trying to win.

>> Systems for collecting the video. They just email the video.

>> Yeah, we just had them email it, whatever xyz.com.

>> Wow.

>> Would you tell the gyms that they need to get their clients to take before photos? Like, would you be very specific about that, or do you just assume people have them?

>> No. Assume no. Ed's right here. Ed worked with me on on Gym Launch. Uh, they just assume they have none of that. And so, um, we built it into the process. So we ran weight loss challenges or taught them how to run weight loss challenges. And so part of the weigh-in process, which is when you do someone's nutrition plan, was that you'd weigh them in, you take a picture. So when they do the weigh-out, you'd weigh them out, you take a picture. So basically manufacture testimonials for everybody.

>> So that's in the onboarding process that the before photo.

>> Yeah, totally 100%. Yeah. In-person. I mean, in-person businesses, it's a, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to not have testimonials. Like, you just have to really suck. No, I'm. You do.

>> I have a question regarding free trial, right? So, how would you make sure that the maximum amount of people that take the free trial end up converting at the end? So, I mean, a lot of it's going to be the onboarding. Honestly, everything that we talked about with onboarding earlier, like that's going to be that's going to be the main thing. And, uh, you know, like for for school, we have like inside of the activation sequence that I wrote, which I think should be going out in the next couple weeks. Um, I looked at all the top posts, uh, inside the community. Uh, and so it's like, what are all the obstacles that someone presents with? And so, someone's going to say they don't have time. So, it's like, okay, here's a long-form post about time. Uh, someone's going to say, I don't have $99 a month. So, it's like, hey, here's six things you can immediately cut to save $300 a month. Okay, great. So, it's like, I'm going to buy them time. I'm going to buy them money. I'm going to buy them, like, what are all the reasons someone cancels? It's kind of like removing the bad stuff, like Sam was saying. It's like, what are all the friction points? And let's just remove all of them one at a time, and then have that be the onboarding. So, the only thing that's left is the good stuff.

>> Ke, um, you just say that, uh, to grow, you need to, to fix the holes, right? But my question is, how do you find the holes? Because sometimes.

>> Totally. I think you ask customers and why they're canceling, why they're leaving. And part of that's like the listening and observation part. Like, unfortunately, there's a combination of one is people lie because they don't want to hurt your feelings. The other thing is a lot of times people don't know. So, people have an easier time saying something's wrong than saying what is wrong. And so, I learned this from from Stephen King because, um, like I read his book on writing, uh, when I was writing my books. And so, he talked about part of his editing process being like, he gives his books to, you know, to four or five people that are his kind of like his test readers. And he says, if everybody circles like one area or has like some problem, he said, don't listen at all to what they said the problem is. But if everyone says there's a problem with this section, it just means there's a problem, then you need to fix it. But most people don't know how to solve the problem. So, customers oftentimes don't know how to solve it. They just know it's wrong. And so, I would just like, you take really strong signal to what they complain about, and largely you can dilute down how much you care about what they think the solution is. So, listen to where they're in pain, and then you try to solve the problem for them. I also, I do want to remind you guys the point that we made earlier with print on demand and Kevin's, uh, of like, if you can find something that's dynamic and valuable that you can give on a a regular basis, I can almost guarantee that that will be the most valuable thing in your membership. So, just like worth considering and having the cancellation video, if you just want to make 7% more money, feels like a good idea. Goodbye. Can you try another another Cyber Truck with 7%?

>> Over this year?

>> So, we have a SAS business that serves the print on demand community.

>> Sure.

>> And, um, I feel like we've kind of plateaued a little bit because it's really hard to like advertise SAS without the education part. So, we thought we'd do the education, go really hard on that. And when we get those people, obviously, they immediately have to use our SAS because that that's it's built for that kind of community.

>> So, how would you like.

>> So, you have two businesses.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> So, how would you go about, uh, serving the English and the Arabic community at the same time? So, I'm thinking of two communities. It can't be in the same community.

>> Are you already doing that in Discord? Just for context.

>> Are you already doing that?

>> Sorry. Are you already serving English and Arabic?

>> Yes. So, it's, it's what the SAS is worldwide, but the, um, education business is in Arabic and in English, but in school at the moment is only in Arabic.

>> So, I, I sell courses in English as well, but it's not in school yet. Okay.

>> We're going to duplicate the whole process from Arabic to English with.

>> So much work.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, it's like, because you have actually three businesses because you have software.

>> Yeah.

>> And then you have English community, and then you have Arabic community. So, the English community is only in courses now, not not in school.

>> Still, you have an English course community or course business. You have three businesses. It's a lot.

>> It's amazing how well.

>> I feel like it's so much work.

>> Yeah. I mean, yeah. You have three businesses. I mean, you told everybody here what you did on your one business, and you were outworking just about everyone in this room on the one. Imagine if you only had one, be easier, right? So, I'm I'm finding it really hard to like detach myself a little bit, like stepping back and like systematizing everything and automating everything with different teams doing different things. So, we've got the SAS business is all right, like we've got developers and all of that. Struggling to find really good marketing people to actually like grow that side. The Arabic business is okay, but we're not doing any ads. So, I want to do that, like pump a lot of ads. And the English side for school, I want to like get it set up properly.

>> Dude, that's so much stuff.

>> So much work.

>> Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea. So much.

>> How would you do it?

>> I was literally, I was on the way here this morning, and I was driving the car with Ila, and, um, she said something about someone having like, oh yeah, there was this, uh, there was this employee that we passed on, uh, cuz he had some like ridiculous demands. He was a good guy, but his demands were too high to to work for us. And she was like, "Oh yeah, I think he he like started three businesses or something." And I was like, like started three businesses, like newbie [ __ ] And he, she was like, "Yeah." And I'm just saying this to you because like, it's just this really common thing, which is that you know how to solve a problem, and then you don't know how to solve the next problem. So, you go back to the beginning, you, you restart the game on a new business because you know how to beat those levels, and then you get stuck at the same boss again. And then you just do that two or three times, and then you're like, "Oh, shoot. I have three businesses." And so, it's like, once you learn how to make your first dollar, often times people are like, I'm going to, I'm going to have nine businesses. But Alex, how can you say that? You have 10 portfolio companies. I run none of them. Truly, like, actually, like, really, really, like, just to give you guys context, there's 10. I meet with two of them. Like, the other eight, I don't meet at all. I don't talk to them. I'm not on anything. It's not like, but you, I'm on on, I'm on nothing, like not annuals, like nothing. I'm not involved.

>> So, like the goal literally is to like, once I set up this Arabic community, I'm going to remove myself from the whole process and have teachers doing the whole thing all the time. So, just going to be like meeting once a week to make sure that everything's running okay and just posting every once in a while in that community.

>> Okay. Why don't you just double that one? Um, because, because I want to funnel users to the software.

>> That's fine. But like you said, you also want to start this whole English thing up. It's like, just why don't you just double your Arabic thing?

>> Because then I'm not serving the English community for the.

>> I'm not serving the Arabic community.

>> Why don't you find an English you?

>> Yeah, makes sense.

>> Well, that's what you were saying last night. What we're talking about is your next.

>> To your churn will will not be the 2% if you move away from all the wonderful things you're doing right now in that community. So.

>> Yeah, I'd be, you do twice the work and make the same.

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz what you gain on the other, you'd probably lose.

>> Lose for sure.

>> And I find that with the Arabic community, the, uh, spending power is really low. So, I find that with English community, I can charge so much higher.

>> But how do you know you'll be as interesting to the US?

>> I've already got a big audience for the, I'm pretty well known in the English world as well in print.

>> What you, what you really want to do is get your model down pat in the Arabic community first, and then duplicate that model to the English, and let the Arabic just be where it's at. Not that you want to grow it, because it'll fund the software better, is what you're really wanting to get to.

>> Because, like ultimately, I want to funnel people into the software. Um, I want to do through education, cuz I feel like that's the only way to like educate them about the software.

>> Why do you want them in the software?

>> Sorry.

>> Why do you want them in the software?

>> Um, because I want them to use the software and, and it's another avenue. Why?

>> Because I feel like it is literally the best one right now, um, in the print on demand world, and I come from that background. Um, I used to, well, I do print on demand, but I started off as just a seller and a creator, and then I moved into software because I wanted to solve all the problems that exist in print on demand, especially to do with research, workflow, planning, all that kind of stuff. I don't feel like there's anything out there that does what our software does. So, I wanted to like use all of the mistakes of other softwares, all of the bugs, all of the frustrations, pain points, and basically solve it through our software.

>> Got it. Does the software come, does the software come bundled with the membership?

>> Um, so what we do now is we give them one free month, um, if they become members at school in our community. So, that gets them to use it and it gives them that user experience, and then they become members afterwards if they, if they want to stay.

>> Got it. How much is it?

>> So, we're provide, it's $49 a month, um, for the software, and we're giving them 50% discounts, but we're going to change our whole pricing model, uh, because we've got, um, new features coming out, especially a big extension coming out. It's going to like literally change the whole game of print on demand. It literally scrapes the whole of Amazon and provides data and all that kind of stuff, all in real time. So, like, it's, it literally will revolutionize the whole print on demand research game.

>> Why don't all the other print on demand English people use the software, and you don't have to make an English community?

>> Uh, we do have influencers using it, like top influencers using that software, but I want to like literally make it so well known that they don't use anything else. But you just want people using it in like brand recognition more than the revenue.

>> Yeah. I just want.

>> Why don't you just bundle them? So, for $49, they get your membership and the software.

>> It's almost like what School does.

>> Interesting.

>> Are you just targeting Morocco right now?

>> Uh, no. I've, I've been doing content since 2019 in Morocco and the English side as well.

>> I mean, for your Arab community.

>> Yeah. Are you talking about the, the School community?

>> We started last month.

>> And just with Morocco.

>> Yeah.

>> So, why not just go for other countries?

>> Yeah. That's that's what I'm trying to do with the English side as well.

>> But not just other.

>> Arabic countries.

>> The dialect is different.

>> Yeah. So, they find it really hard to understand the dialect. Yeah.

>> Have you thought about just translating your videos into that language?

>> Very, very hard. Uh, what English?

>> Like, for example, we, or I made like, if I do a video in English, it will translate into any language and post it on YouTube. I worked our show, the Polish version. It's like, it sounds exactly like you in a separate language because, because weirdly, we had this really narrow chunk of people. We probably get a few a month who don't speak English, but they really want the product. Um, so we were thinking of ways we could translate the content into a different language. And there's extensions you can throw on top of School that will, where they read it in English, it turns it into language. But it will, it will like, the same way you speak English, translate that into any language, which is zero effort on the video side.

>> See, the Moroccan community want you to speak to them in Moroccan. Um, they don't want to read subtitles. They want to interact with that. It's literally your voice in that language. Yeah. I, I'll show it. Looks like.

>> Yo, Laya has a Spanish one of Ila, and it's like frightening.

>> She's like, she's like a natural Latina. It's crazy. She's not. Yeah. Right. No, but I think I think what, what Sam was, was getting at is probably like, what's the goal?

>> Growing it to a multi-million dollar company for the software, and then obviously education is on top. I think having one, one business would probably serve you really well rather than having like all of these other things, and having one membership that you drive that just has the software and the, you know, the education's kind of embedded within it feels like a good idea. If part of, I'm assuming that when you do your deep trainings that you, we went through, I'm guessing a lot of that is showing them how to use the software and whatnot, right? So, I feel like you're already doing it, but you just kind of like build them separately when you could probably just build them together.

>> You're doing that in Morocco and doing it in English and building the software is sounds like too much.

>> But if you just did the software in the Moroccan, you're already doing that.

>> But I do want the software is global. So, we've got English speakers.

>> Yeah, I know. But I'm just saying you're doing the software. You're doing the Moroccan membership, and it's working. So, I think you just should find someone that can be you in English, but feeding into the same software. Because that way, they can just look after English, you can look after Moroccan and the software. And if you bundled it, like almost 100% of your members would use the software. It might make your membership more valuable.

>> And then you can charge a higher price.

>> Or it depends what your goal is. Or you could just keep the price the same, but it'd just be way more valuable.

>> It's stickier.

>> Is that the moment? People paid for the membership and for the software, and they're happy doing that, doing that because it, it provides so much value. So.

>> True. You'd have to do the math, but then how many people would use the software if all of them got it? Probably more. Then how many more people would join the membership if it came with the software? And then how many people would you lose because you bundled them together? And if all of those equaled out, and you just had more people using your software, still probably be worth it, depending on your goal. Yeah.

>> But then again, how many users can you get and how many users can you serve? If you, if you really bundle everything together, like it's quite hard to scale to like thousands and thousands of members, and then you lose out on quality because we already have hundreds of, well, we've got over 100,000, um, free members in the software and over 2,000 members paying the software already. A lot of them are annuals.

>> Well, it might be too complicated to bundle them then. But.

>> Yeah, these would be some of the things I would think about.

>> I think Sam and I are just on the same page that like you're doing too much.

>> And you adding more to your plate sounds like a very bad idea.

>> Well, it sounds like you're coping, but if you added more, I'd be you would be [ __ ] myself from the Arabic one and then like start the English one. What would you? What do you think?

>> It's just like the Arabic is going to go to [ __ ] when you leave.

>> I can't even make content at all. All I can do is the software, and I'm still struggling with that. So, like, imagine if I was doing multi-language communities and your Q&A that you do. Holy [ __ ] Like, come on.

>> I have a big why. I have a really, really big one.

>> Yeah. And I spend a tremendous amount of time, effort, and resources on just making the ungodly amount of School ads that we put out every week.

>> How many do we?

>> A lot.

>> Now, even if you were to hire teachers that would basically, you teach them how to do it.

>> Then you're going to teach them.

>> That might be take up more time than just doing it yourself.

>> If there were just three of you, I think you'd be great. I wish.

>> Yeah.

>> I know this applies to more than just him because it's like the most common thing that people do in the beginning, especially like 0 to 100K, is that they learn how to market, they learn how to sell, and then they immediately hit some skill gap where they say, "Okay, well, I'll just do that again with some other thing, and then I'll do it again with some other thing, and this time it'll be different." But you end up just working three times as much, and then you lose some on the main thing you did. I mean, we used to see this in the gym space. Like, people would have one location, they'd get it really profitable, and they'd be like, "Oh, great. I'm going to open my second location," and then they'd do the first one, do a little bit worse, and the second one doesn't do as well as the first one. And all of a sudden, they're like, "I'm making the same money as I did when I had one, but now I have two and twice the headache." And they're like, "Okay, but this time I'll open a third one, cuz I think this is what the standard is." Then they open a third one, and then number one and number two both go down by another 10 or 15%. And now they're just spread completely thin, and now they make no money, no profit, and they're killing themselves. And this happens all the [ __ ] time. And I only know this because I've done it like seven times on my own.

>> Yeah, it's the compos. So, I guess like doing a slight 90° pivot on that, then, uh, a lot of this like seems to fit in the theme of simplification and that like In-N-Out Burger model or whatever it is. So, like, I guess we have to get practical with like an actionable, then thinking about when it comes to communities, processes, also like, I guess our workflow, how, how do we all think about how we simplify the product itself? Like, if you were to ask every member of your community, why are you here? Well, they all say like the same thing. So, like looking at, I suppose the communities that are killing it and crushing it, and like I know like she's spoken about your friend who overcomplicated it, then it went really bad, then they simplified it. Like, how do you get really practical about like implementing that, identifying what is fat and actually what is moving the needle.

>> Sam, do you want to answer? I mean, I have a a little process that we run for services. So, we just, um, so we make a, so this is actually a fun exercise for everybody here is actually write down every single thing you provide for your community. And then you'll be amazed. You're like, "Shit, I do a lot of stuff." Like, you'll, if you actually write it down, you'll be like, "Shoot, I do like 14 different things for this community." And so you list them all out, and then you send it to them and say, "Hey, if I were to eliminate everything but one thing, which would be the thing that you would want me to keep?" And you'll get a very good idea of what they actually care about. And the thing is, is that most people do stay for like one, one thing or two things. They have one use case that they actually use it for. Like, we're right now we're building gymowners.com, which is the, um, the CRM for gyms, uh, at Gym Launch. And like the, it's a super fragmented market, which is why we decided to build the CRM. Like, the largest competitor in the gym space owns 7% of the market. It's the largest person. So, like, it's just a gazillion different logos. And the main thing is, is that most CRMs do like a hundred things, and gym owners use four. They use it for payment processing. They use it for scheduling, and I can't remember the other two, right? That's it. And so, the CRM that we have is like, we're just going to build those four features, and that is it. We're not going to add anything to it, and we're just going to do that. And so, it's like, you probably have, and, and of the, like, right now we have beta users in there, and we have two features, and they just use one. They're just using it as a point of sale because they're like, "Oh, I like the interface better." Like, that's it. You know, like, that's it. They're like, "I don't use a scheduler because I know I know when everyone's showing up for classes, like they don't even care." And so, I'm just bringing that up because a lot of times we do a zillion things, but this is like, kind of the point we're making early about deletion is like, you may be able to delete one of those. I, I deleted, I'll just give you a really painful one. I had, I ran this test for Gym Launch. One of the things we did was we had tech support. And so we had continued to scale a 35-person tech support team because a big issue for gyms is they're not very tech-savvy, but they had to like learn how to run ads and build a landing page and then autoresponders and things like that, right? It was just a nightmare, right? Because they were like, "But how does it fit inside of a fax machine?" And I was like, "Doesn't fit." Anyways, and so we had this 35-person department, and, uh, when I, when we, we did the, the thing, the, the lowest ranked one was tech support, and I had a 35-person department. And so, then I fired 35 people, and nothing happened.

>> Inside. Yeah.

>> Nothing happened. And the amount of like drama and just all it was just gone. Just disappeared. And I was like, wow, that was a waste. At 35 employees did nothing. I mean, they did stuff, but just like, question the requirements, like, does this actually do anything? Does this retain customers? Turns out it didn't. What really retained customers was ads that got them leads. M.

>> Did you do that, um, when you fired them? Did you do the walkthrough thing of, um, you know, an offboarding, sort of, you know, I mishired you, you know, you got to go.

>> Yeah. We took responsibility, and we tried to set them up with, uh, job interviews with different companies that I knew needed support. They were well-trained. There's nothing wrong with them. It was just we didn't, it wasn't a business need of ours, turned out. But, uh, there was, there was this clip that I, I recently watched of Tim Cook talking about, like, the biggest lesson that he learned from Steve Jobs and working underneath of him, which he said it was the, it was like, basically, I'm paraphrasing, but it's like, the tremendous task of making things simple. It is the hardest thing in the world is to make things simple and keep constraints around projects. It's just like, it's so hard, and that's, and that people think because it's simple, that it's easy, but it's like, it's the absolute hardest thing to do, which is why, you know, in his mind, he was like, it was such a noble pursuit to make things simple.

>> Yeah. The reason why it's so hard is because the way that people do things is complicated, and they expect you to support the way that they do it. But the way to make it more simple is to get them to change. And that's that's where you can like make some big improvements. But that's where it, that's why it's hard, I think.

>> But I think Sam's framework, you mentioned earlier, it's like, just look for the pain. So, rather think like, what are, what are all the things I can give them in gain? Because like, we think a lot of times by adding, we just always want to add because it just seems like, I'll just add this other thing, I'll just add this other thing. But if you just think, I can't add anything, I can only remove things to solve their problems. It's like, how do I do that? It's just a different framework for for thinking through solutions. Removing frustration and pain is guaranteed to improve your product. So, it's like, you can't miss with those things. So, they're easy wins.

>> I think it works in relationships, too.

>> It works in honestly, like everything.

>> Yeah.

>> I even found this species of like turtle that, um, it has the longest lifespan out of all living things. And its secret to its like DNA structure is that it has a bias for fixing errors over forming new mutations. Yeah. So, actually, if cells form new mutations real fast, that's how it dies fast. But if you constantly fix errors, it leads to longevity. Like, error removing errors is the most important thing to like make something last and for it to be good. It's so easy to do, too, because you generally know what's wrong.

>> But it's hard to know what to add, right?

>> It's also way more boring. So, Ila had this thing with me that she's, she's helped me a lot with, which is delineating the difference.

Between missed opportunities and problems. And so, a lot of times I would stress myself out of like, you know, we were talking earlier about UGC and emails, right? You're like, I can't believe I haven't sent these emails. I suck. The thing is is that that's a missed opportunity. It's not a problem.

And so if you think about all the things that you can do to grow a business, there's there's unlimited things you could do. Like you could immediately go to start going to conferences where you you just see people are and sign up sponsorships. You could do the emails. You could start doing outbound. You could start running ad like there's a million things you could do to grow the business. But um and so missed opportunities are unlimited. Problems are more more finite in terms of the the they're all right there. And so a lot of times the growth comes from solving problems rather than like growth occurs.

We talked about we were talking earlier about um fixing your churn, right? It's like should I focus on fixing my churn? It's like well yeah you're at 37% like let's fix churn. And he's like okay so so I shouldn't worry about growth. It's like but if you fix churn growth will occur growth will just happen because if you go to 15% it more than doubles the business. So solving problems oftenimes is the way to growth. is just as entrepreneurs solving problems is painful and and a lot of times like boring and less exciting.

>> It's way more fun to add them.

>> Yeah. To add problems. Yeah. Right.

>> Yeah. I I love that like idea of challenging assumptions. We've got the software locket. I said, "Well, hang on a second. Like how much of this are they actually using?" So, we just said, "Hey, are you let me know of these 37 things you get? What are you actually using?"

>> They won't. That's a you. There's only one way to find out.

>> Is it Is it remove it?

>> Yeah.

>> Cuz I'm telling you, Ted was campaigning at my desk for keeping the audio room feature.

>> He was he just did a 25 person live stream. He said everyone loved it. He was like almost in tears.

>> I wasn't in tears. This girl was almost in tears.

>> And everyone was like, "No, this is amazing." So like you know they're if you ask people they will they people love things they want more of them and they don't want to let them go.

>> So like they will they're really bad at telling you what you can remove.

>> I think I mean like you don't know what actually is making a difference unless you remove it and they shout about it if not.

>> Yeah. I I think it's interesting because you may be doing like 20 things but how do you know what the the three things are that making a difference? Right. So

>> yeah,

>> people also say they want something more if they know it's being taken away.

>> Yeah.

>> Like if I take this away from Sam right now, they go out with that water.

>> But right now he's only touching it.

>> So they they did there was like this um uh flight from LAX to London and like nobody was taking this flight and so the airline made an announcement like hey we're going to remove this flight and then it got booked up like non-stop for the next three weeks.

>> That's the other thing. never announced that you're removing something either

>> cuz everyone will care right at the point of announcement, but they wouldn't have used it

>> before. So, you got a silent remove and it's easy if you keep it there and you're like, "Okay, all I need to do is click this button and it will be back on." So, you know, you can easily undo it, but you just take it away and if no one notices for a week, you're good.

>> And even if and and you said this earlier, but like and if someone does notice, okay, who are they? Do I care? Like like how much of a problem is it relative to how much it cost me?

>> Yes.

>> That that thing you just said, that framework of who are they? Why would they like that's how you define the problem? Because if I'm like a Twitch guy, I really need live streaming on school. But if I'm like the original audience of school was

>> you're going to get live streaming,

>> dude. Free trials on Monday, dude. Free trials.

>> Free trials are coming. But I guess the real the question I'm asking if I frame it in a question is is how are you defining the audience you're solving problems for because at first it was YouTubers and now it seems to be just you should bring build your business you should you know business owners you should start a school group like it's it's more but what is the audience and how are you defining that?

>> I don't really think that much about it. I just look at like who's using it, how they're using it, and what they want. And then you get a list and then they there's generally, you know, they might say, "Oh, live streaming is so important." But maybe if I said, "What about affiliates?" Then maybe you would immediately be like, "Actually, I want that one first."

>> Okay. Okay. So, more

>> would you want affiliates first? I'm curious.

>> It depends, right? Because it it super depends because if I have a you know, I mean it sure affiliates, right? Like Yeah, like school could rival ClickBank in that way and like really take over.

>> That's why live streaming keeps getting pushed back because of these conversations. It's not that we don't want to do live streaming.

>> Yeah.

>> No, it's not even screwed. It's always just priorities cuz you can't you can't do everything at once.

>> Yeah.

>> But who are you targeting in the ads then? like what what are the because this is where you're spending money to who are those audiences like you define them.

>> They're mostly people that know who Hormosi is who are like people in the like online business market I would say.

>> Okay. So because Horoszi used to live stream and make so much content you said let's take that audience let's retarget that audience of people.

>> Well I know like everyone wants live streaming calendar feature stream it's about the audience you're targeting right? Calendar is one of the most used features we have. Yeah. But there's a workaround too. Like you can use Meet or Zoom. So it's not like you can't do it. You can still do it. It's just not as perfect. You know what I mean? Yeah. Whereas affiliates, there's no no work around too. So like there's all of these trade-off decisions.

I think like what we've been talking it's actually been almost a theme of the second half of the day has been um is tradeoffs, right? And so like I think like fundamentally like the people who move furthest in or rather yeah people who move furthest in life aren't really like doing things faster than you. Like we you know we only have so many hours every day. It's just they're picking things that get them more for the time they put in. And so it's like if I was I was talking to my team about this um one of one of the directors the other day was basically like everybody in the world is a strategist and if we define strategy as prioritization of resources that's what you do like when it's like what's our strategy? It's like what are we prioritizing? What is what are we saying yes to and what's every basically everything else is also a no by by implication. And so it's just that the the higher up you go in business the greater the resources you have to prioritize. And so at the at the very bottom level, it might be, you know, an individual contributor who's the resources they have is their time. And so I I was walking through our our video team through this where I was like, okay, you got like you guys do all this stuff to a video, right? All right. How much time does it take to do these things? And they have this big checklist. And one of them was something called color grading, which I always like is the butt of like my video jokes. Apparently, it's this thing that takes a while and I don't think it does anything. Anyways, and so I was like, "Okay, if we were to power rank these, which of these things that you do and you spend time on actually makes a banger video?" And so, you know, everybody be like, "All right, well, the big idea is going to matter a lot. The the the hook, you know, the hook and intro is going to matter a ton. Headline and thumbnail, those probably those are right up there." It's like, "Okay, what what else? Okay, well, the road map for like how the video is going to go." Okay, none of those are color grading, but color grading is taking 20% of your time. And are you allocating the same amount of time to all these things? No. And so just because we can color grade videos doesn't mean we should. And that's that's where well the video would be better if we color graded. It's like, yeah, but it's not really going to make a difference relative to how much it costs. And so maybe we just don't do color grading.

But what we just don't do color grading?

>> So are you guys still doing it? No, not if I was saying. Are we doing color grading anymore?

>> We We're using these cameras now, so

>> Oh, yeah.

>> But your new cameras are made for color grading.

>> I know. And I uh and I got to eat that 200 grand.

>> So like, yeah, I've made choices like that sometimes.

>> No. And I So I mean, this is a real This is like real business [ __ ] My team bought super expensive cameras. Those super expensive cameras create like terabytes of [ __ ] information. And then as a result, uploading those took 25 hours. And so I was like, "So the end result of us doing this is that I spent more money and you do less work." I was like, "This sucks for me."

>> And you invented a new task, color grading, which takes the most time.

>> I hate I hate this, but that's what that was the end result. Forget about all the other reasons. It was just Alex spent this money and the output per unit of time for the team went down and that didn't in any way translate to more views.

>> That's why I used to film YouTube videos on my iPhone. cuz I learned how to color grade cuz I went down this path. I got a like black magic camera. I got all the lenses and [ __ ] I got like lights. I learned how to color grade. And I was like, I spent two weeks making this [ __ ] video.

>> I still don't even know what color grading is. I know it's something. And focal point. I know we talk about that. That's a thing. I've learned some terms.

>> I had to learn all of that. Like literally I used to edit all my videos. I learned how to color grade. I used uh I learned how to like add all the elements, motion graphics and all and you literally takes a week.

>> Yeah, I definitely spend 100 grand on camera gear like and spend more than a year learning about it.

>> Crazy.

>> Cuz I'm like that type of person

>> that if I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. Yeah. And so to to stop myself from falling into that trap, I just had to use my iPhone and not edit at all.

>> And did you like whenever

>> just one take upload

>> literally whenever

>> otherwise I couldn't help myself. I'd be tweaking little things. Yeah.

>> And and did you like buy all the new cameras? Whenever something comes out, you you buy into the hype.

>> Yeah. I would be like, you know, following the latest Blackmagic camera, the latest lens. I'd be looking at like, you know, all kinds of [ __ ]

>> You know what he's talking about? Black magic. Do you know this stuff? You guys No, I'm asking my team behind you. So, let me This is actually a per this is a perfect micro example. So, I want to like I want I want to take advantage of this. So, we're talking about optimizing, right? And so, if we're talking about these the like the video editor as a micro, but you can apply this to every position, right? So, they're they're spending time. That's the resource they have. And so, it was like, so number one, so this is me. So, this is me talking to the the director of this. I I I literally just walked him through this. Um, okay. So, I said, "Okay, I want you to power rank, force rank the people in our team by skill." He's like, "Okay, so that's what we're doing in terms of like editing horsepower." Okay, great. These this is the absolute number one. This is number two, number three, number four. Okay, got it. All right. Now, based on that, we have platforms that get us more bang for our buck. When we make Instagram stuff, we get way more than we get Tik Tok stuff. Would it make sense for us to put our best guy on the worst platform? No. We get less for our effort. So, let's put let's rank the platforms. What do we get the most from? And then who do we get the most out of? Okay. Well, if we had the best people on the best platforms, we're going to do even better. Okay. Now, what are they doing with their time? So, the guys who are the best editors are, you know, they do these 20 things to a video. They color grade, they do focal, they do lighting, they do all this stuff, right? But if we had to power rank those, what are the things that generate the best videos or what are the the things that weighted make the greatest impact? Okay. Well, then that's the new checklist. We erase all of these things so they can spend more time on this stuff. Because if you had 80% of your time spent on what's the packaging, what's the hook, what's the big idea, what's the intro, what's the thumbnail, then I'll bet you we'll do way better than if 80% of your time is doing all this other like cool transition, visual effect, like whatever the [ __ ] right? And so by doing that, it's like we take our existing resources and we get five times the output by making sure that we have the best people on the best platform doing only the [ __ ] that matters most. And then like this is fundamentally what I think the job of the entrepreneur is is to constantly reassess, prioritize, cut, reassess, prioritize, cut. And you do that because the thing is is that a lot of people want to add [ __ ] to their plate. You want to start another [ __ ] company, right? And so it's like you just people just add things and it doesn't always necessarily mean that it's going to get better. Peter Teal has this whole thing on this where he would be ruthless with the people in his company where he said he would only give them one thing. He's like you can't do something else. He said because people will solve B and C problems rather than trying to solve A problems because A problems are harder. But solving lots of B's and C's problems never give you the breakthroughs in the business that you want.

>> Question if you don't mind. Um, so if you have this SAS business that serves, you know, the whole world, but then you want to make people from all over the world use it, what would you do? And your primary um your your primary uh audience is in Morocco. So what what would you do? Find an English version of you because English is the probably the main language for like software I'd say.

>> Yeah. So you need an English version of you.

>> An English version of him as an operator or as the promoter that he's

>> literally him. So like he doing the calls, doing the marketing, being the influencer, being in the community and sharing the same amount of enthusiasm and passion for the space and the industry. You know, you know what I mean? So maybe acquiring someone that is in the print on demand space and then saying, "Hey, add this software to your stack and let me help you accelerate your users adoption of it."

>> Yeah. Like partnering up. Yeah. Cuz I decided I'm not going to become an influencer. So I partner with Homozy, right? We're going to do this ambassador thing. Okay. I'm going to get Ted. We do a podcast. Okay. I got Matthew. Kirby runs the school games. So like because I can only do the product. So if we're going to do something else, someone better own it.

>> And this is where one of the things that happens over time is that your ability to attract and recognize good talent goes up. Is that right now every one of you is by far the best person in your company, I'm guessing, right? And so you're the rain maker, you're the everything person, but over time you learn to bring people in that are actually better than you at something. They're just better than you straight up. Not just kind like not like oh yeah if I'm spending 10% of my time if they put 100% of their time they'd be better than no like they're just [ __ ] better than you no matter what. And like that's how like if you look at the uh like Y comodator and things like that like often times they try to find it's they don't even take on like Y Com doesn't accept single founder companies. They don't accept them because they're like there's no way that someone can be that good at everything because to be fair they're also looking for billion dollar multi-billion dollar companies. And so to get to that level, now if you want to build a million dollar business, one person can be that good. $10 million business even you can probably still get. They're just being good on your own. Above that, you need you need other people.

So I have a crazy idea for you. So you recall there was this moment where Sam gave up consulting.com and then um and then eventually shut down the mastermind, right? So you could go all in on school. Is there a world like I don't know how much you've got saved up things like that but like is there a world where you just just become the English- speakaking one and just stop doing the Moroccan thing?

>> Yeah. And then transition all the Moroccans that can speak in English to the English version.

>> That is possible. A lot of them can actually speak English.

>> Yeah. And sacrifice the rest.

>> You lose some. Yeah.

>> I mean, he gave up $3 million a year for like three weekends or something like crazy.

>> Yeah. But it takes up head space.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> It's the attention piece and that's like more difficult to quantify because it's hard to quantify like your thinking time. But from what I understand, people who have children, as soon as you have children, you've got this thing in the back of your mind that's kind of like always there. And I think like having a business is like having a child as somebody who has no children. Um, but like you think about it all the time

>> and it's something that I've been thinking for about for a while because I've got two YouTube channels. The primary one is the the Arabic one and I wanted to like get rid of the Arab.

>> Sam didn't want to do just content. You're doing two content trying to do two communities and SAS. It's like, dude, there's one of you, man.

>> Yeah, it's crazy.

>> I'm just working on the product and sometimes I'm have no idea how I'm going to be able to do this. just working on the product.

>> Have you learned to code in uh Go at all?

>> No, I don't write code either.

>> Cool.

>> What's the best way to move your

>> My co-founder writes code. There's also like 15 other engineers and all of them sometimes think, "How are we going to do this?" Right? Like it's an enormous job for everyone. So yeah, someone doing it all would be crazy. Like it's impossible. Completely impossible. And Daniel spent what 20 years?

>> Yeah, 20 years.

>> He's been coding for 20 years. Like 14 hours a day.

>> It's like I'm not going to go be like, "Oh, you know, I'm going to start learning code so that I It's like just

>> I wouldn't even try. Like he's so good that I'd never be as good as him.

>> So then what do you do? Like not in like a like a brash way like for brevity like for like just being straightforward like what?

>> Um work on the product. So use it, talk to people that use it, um look at the data of how people are using it and thinking about what would make it better and then designing the thing

>> that takes a I mean the design thing is I feel like takes a lot

>> honestly most of it 80% of it is figuring out what to do that once you know what to do I can do a design in like you've seen it explode out like onto the screen. Like a design can sometimes happen in like I bet you I could design a whole feature in probably like 4 hours very fast. It's figuring out what to do that takes the long amount of time. H

>> Have you found any ways to shortcut that process to figuring out what to do?

>> No, because it's easy to add something, but is it the right thing? So it's Yeah. like the audio room. I we spent like a long time building that and then I just killed it. So we actually decided what to do, did it, put it, gave it to 30 people, used it and then we still decided not to do it. So yeah.

Do you find that sometimes your engineers uh misunderstand what you're trying to achieve and you having to really communicate exactly what you want and what what would be the best process for that in order not to create any misunderstanding cuz they they only know how to code but you're trying to design a product you're trying to design the whole uh user experience and all of that and how do you like get that across to them? So for me, I design the interface in Figma, right? And I think through all of the details of how it works, and unless they have that, I can't communicate what I want the engineer to do. They need to see the interface, too. And then they have all of these questions like, oh, what about in this case? What about in this case? What about in this case? All the scenarios.

>> Yeah. And then they will often have more questions as they're developing it because I didn't even think of some scenarios and then they do it. But it takes a really good engineer to be able to do that.

>> Are you um are you modeling you know every they're looking at you Kajjabi and all these other people? Are you looking at them at all when you think of things?

>> Not really. He's on only fans a lot.

>> I did use Only Fans when I was researching our billing system.

>> Our our account, it's funny. I've got the message in Slack. Our accountant screenshotted the transaction and he goes, "Really?" And I was like, "I promise it was just like research. This actually happened. It's pretty funny."

>> Um, but no, it's obvious I'm not looking at Kajjabi because otherwise school would look like Kajjabi, right? Like Yeah.

>> Um, any big collabs like uh you know uh ClickBank and some of the like places where other huge affiliates hang out, people that sell digital products and um do this.

>> ClickBank's kind of dead now, isn't it?

>> Sure. Digi Store. I mean, whatever. Well, I I don't know if those are like modern things. They're like things that were big a while ago. I think they're all kind of dead now, which is kind of the opportunity we've got to build the new thing. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And do you actually take time to think because it seems like a bit part of your job is like to have like the right vision. So would you like allow like specific time just to think about your business or I think when I'm driving to work, driving home from work, lying in bed, going to sleep. He stares at a blank desktop a lot, too. There's like nothing on the screen but a screen saver and he's just sitting at it every day.

>> Really? I didn't know that. it. No, but honestly, talking to the customers is is like anyone that's talked to me has probably already seen me been doing work while just talking to you. Like developing ideas, features, right? That's so much better than trying to do it in my own head or like blocking out space to think is the talking to the customers is really the magic and developing it with them. So that's what I would spend most most of my time doing. Using the thing. Using the thing is so important. Um talking to people that use the thing and then just coming up with a list and prioritizing it. And you I even use the customers to help me prioritize it because they're very good at doing that. Like I said to you a you thought you wanted live streaming. I was like what about affiliates? You're like yeah affiliates is more important. So customers can help you with a lot of those choices and then you just do it. But it that's what I mean it takes a lot of effort to like figure out what you should do.

>> Yes. Sam like what what influenced me the most is when I came to HQ for the first time. Um, you showed me the slideshow. I think it was for like the it was like when you're announcing the 100K or something the Cybert truck and you asked me specifically. You're like what do you think of this? And it was such a small thing to me. It's like oh you just asked me for a slideshow. Um, but at the same time it's like he genuinely wants to know other people's opinions that he works with. Even though I'm literally like I'm pretty much in like I guess business terms. I'm pretty much nothing. But like you still came and you still asked me cuz I'm a customer of school and you want me

>> and you said it was confusing, right?

>> Yeah, I said it was confusing.

>> And then I cut it.

>> Yeah.

>> Did you see that? It was gone by the time I did the webinar. I cut out like a huge section.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Cuz you were like, "Oh, I don't know if

>> I don't know if people need to know that." And I was like gone. like

>> yeah and I was like he actually listened and to me that gave me a huge mindset shift. I'm like he literally listens to his customer like it's that simple but I was like over complicated.

>> Well that's why I was more confident delivering it live on the day in front of like a thousand people because I had had a few little tests and remove the parts that sucked.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

Is multil language and multiurrency something coming any soon or

>> languages will be coming before currency? Um, but that will be coming after affiliates video and live streaming

>> and free trials.

>> Well, free trials is already built.

>> Um, with the new rules, you know, rolling out the rules feature and the post moderation, will we have draft posts? Do you mention anything about multi?

>> No, no drafts at the moment. Is this for like Why do you need a draft?

>> It's Yeah.

>> You want to schedule posts post? I think everybody wants schedule post. No.

>> See that? What's tricky about this one? And this is interesting when you're trying to make a product better, right? It's things like this because a lot of people want scheduled posts, but you have to think what behavior is that going to encourage if you give it to people because some people might have it want it for a legitimate reason like they're a mom of five kids and they've got a knitting community and they're so busy that they need to schedule this post at this time because they're going to be looking after their kids. That person truly needs it. But it encourages this different type of behavior where someone will schedule a month worth of content and that's not how you run a community. And then they'll just they won't be there for a month and these random articles will be posting and it will kind of kill the like humanness of school. Do you know what I mean?

>> He did it like a day in bed in front of them.

>> Why bother? Still, I just think why don't they just put a calendar reminder in their calendar?

>> Like my I I think I agree. I'd rather not schedule them, but if you did do it.

>> I mean, I think the humanness is like what differentiates school.

>> Yeah. That is the part that makes school magic is they're like it's human. Everyone has a profile pick. Everyone has a name and you're talking to a human, right? Like that's becoming more and more rare on the internet with AI with with scheduled posts with you know

>> bots

>> bots like Yeah. And that that's a step away from humanness is scheduling stuff you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, you were asking me what was that? What was I just saying?

>> I was saying um you

>> Oh yeah. Do you love everything you do? No. I [ __ ] No. No. I like what happens. I like what happens as a result of the work I do. But there's tons of times. Like if I'm I'm like I don't feel like writing [ __ ] emails right now. Like I don't want to write yet another script or like okay I'm going to go review a bunch of ads. I mean like I like it because I'm good at it. But like it just like I put zero attention to how much I enjoy something or not. It just like I just don't even think about it. It's all like I think the thing that keeps me going is like the big vision that Sam and I both share about what school can become. And like I'm so [ __ ] bought into that. Like I'm so amped for the decentralized map feature to come out and have everybody start like these little I can't wait to see the amount of posts of people like hanging out together and like talking about like I'm I am stoked for that, right? Um, but the stuff that it takes to create that might be largely painful, you know, and I just like I just think a lot of people judge themselves on I should feel happy at all times while I'm working and everything should and I should also have this amazing work life balance. It's like you can you just won't you trade off.

What were you going to say? Um, what have you noticed in the last month or two cycles in what's working and not working for school ads in your cos like

>> the same stuff?

>> Same stuff.

>> I'll give you something funny. So, the company that we spend the most dollars per day advertising in the portfolio. We found an ad that worked and we literally just refilm the same ad over and over and over again. We've tried to beat it. We just keep refilming the same ad. And so like the school ads are going to be like so we'll film some today and you guys will be able to see them. But um, I'm today's the first day that I'll try to beat the VSSL. So that'll be kind of new and you guys you guys will be able to hear twothirds of the script. I already did the second the basically the way it works is I'll do this very fast pace like dollar shave club and at the very end it'll go transition to my desk and I'll calm down the tone slow down the speaking and be like because it's all risk reversal for the last third of like hey if you don't believe me let me just show you some stuff blah blah blah it's like kind of calm so this is like sucks them into the video does all the big persuasion stuff but then the rest is like hey let's reverse some risk here's here's how you cancel it's okay blah blah blah blah um but in terms of the ads Like starting a school community is the fastest way to start an online business. Hook number one. Highest performing hook. This is a Cybert truck. This is 100 grand and somebody watching this video will win one of these two in the next 30 days. Add hook number two. Add number three. Real quick, what's your email address? Because I want to send you $1,000 of free stuff. The same stuff that John did last month to get to X. Hook number three. And we're gonna do uh bananas, which is uh we're gonna have somebody in a gorilla costume chase somebody in a banana costume uh right in front of the video like in the first second and it be like, "Well, that was bananas. You know what else is bananas? Look at these results. Top four hooks, right?" And the fifth hook would be uh would be starting with the result, which is like a specific number. So like $6,762. That's how much Kyle, the lowest person on the leaderboard, made last month in the school games. and no, so you're not going to be the richest man on four, blah blah blah, right? And so like those are the ads and we have more or less been just saying like how many different ways can we say the exact same thing. And so in the beginning a lot of guys when you're making ads and like my my ad creation process over time like it has taken me I've been I've been running paid ads for 13 years and paid ads specifically interruption based so like not PPC so like YouTube and meta ads I've been running those for 13 years and the thing that has changed from when I started to what I do now is I just spend almost all of my time repeating winners. I spend very little like like the very beginning the first batch of ads we did I think we recorded for like two straight days and it was like I think I had a hundred hooks written down and I was like here's all the different hooks that I think we're going to start with and we ran all of them and then we had five or six winners that became the top ones and then it was like okay and then we try to beat like we try to beat those we're going to the banana thing with the gorilla that'll be a little bit new uh compared to the other ones now that's one in a different category for us so we're going uh we're going to we think that might work here, but the other four they're just winners.

>> Also, the the two best ones we've had so far, it's like the two themes are Horoszi and the winners. Yeah.

>> So, you're going around and you've seen those ads, right?

>> The other one is the Cybertruck one.

>> So, we're like, what if we combined both?

>> What if it starts with the Cybertruck but then goes to the winners? So, if you like start to like mutate the things you know that work into new creations, I think that it's hard when you imagine that you're like, I'm pretty sure that'll work cuz both work on their own. So, like I'm pretty sure that's going to be our best ad,

>> right? And right now the number one meta ad was because that was exactly what we did. So, the Cybertruck ad won and it was before we had one of these. So, I was like, let's just run that. And so, that was a winner. And the if you guys seen one with me with two balloons where I'm like popping it and it's like ah and we go down the line. That was one of the big winners too. And so it's like okay we'll do both those together. And the next month the winner was both those two things together.

>> The Cyber Truck works so well we're like it's not even in the VSSL.

>> So we're like let's redo the VSSL to put that damn Cybert truck in.

>> And that's hence the

>> So then if we combine all the things we've got that we know work all together, it should work even better in theory.

>> Yeah. at least not suck.

>> So, Alex, on the topic of ads, um, have you ever because our situation is that right now we're targeting kids. I guess you can lump in content for this, too, because you know it's like tutoring. It's for the kids, right? It's their thing, but like at the same time, it's a parents who can buy. So, we're thinking of even switching to just targeting the parents for the ads or even the content. But like, have you ever had in your personal situation or even for what we have switched someone else's ads or when you ran for gyms, have you switched it to a different personality or different like group because you thought that might work better?

>> I thought you said that didn't work. Didn't you try it?

>> We didn't switch to do we did we should do we target it's for parents.

>> You said you did something towards parents.

>> We did. I think we like

>> You said it bombed.

>> Yeah, we said some Yeah, it was it was bomb.

>> Oh, okay. You should definitely do that again.

>> Forget about that.

>> Yeah,

>> but like if we get the kids and they just It's just not

>> But you closed 30%.

>> Dude, that's almost the best strategy cuz no one's targeting the kids for two grand. There's cheap traffic. You target the adults. You're competing with everything and they're too busy and [ __ ] Like the kids, that's how serial companies work, right? They like go for the kids and then the kids convince the parents what they want. You know what I mean? Like a lot of business is done on targeting the kids. Like think about video games, man. Like that's parents,

>> but they don't target a dad with a Fortnite ad.

>> Your children will be so much better off playing Fortnite, you know? So, we still want to run it to the kids, not the parents, even though they have buying power.

>> Well, it's working.

>> Yeah, you're right.

>> Do you have any testimonials from parents?

>> No, we do not.

>> I think that's a good idea.

>> Like for your website, few parent testimonials up there.

>> We only have the kids like, "Oh, I went from this to this."

>> Do the kids actually want a high SAT score?

>> Some a lot. Some like who are serious about applying to like good colleges do?

>> I'd say 100%. 100%.

>> Interesting. Then I guess that works perfectly cuz they want it. Then they sell their parents on it. It's hard for their parent to say no. Mom, I want a better SAT score so I can go to a better college.

>> [ __ ] you, son.

>> It's a hard I mean Yeah, it's a hard [ __ ] Yeah, I want to better myself, Mom. She's like, [ __ ] you. Stay. She's like, stay poor and dumb. You know, like

>> Yeah, that's almost the ultimate pitch to get it to come from the child,

>> right?

>> Right. Maybe we're pitching it wrong.

>> Maybe you need to teach the kid how to sell their parent

>> like here's how to present it.

>> Having like a video on the case study page just for parents. So when you hop off the sales call like it's like this is the video you can show to your parents. So it has like a case study from the teacher and a pitch just for the uh the parts without that work. Could you

>> Yeah, I mean why not? I mean, I try and close who I I mean, we already talked about this is like try and get the parent on the phone if they're the ones who are going to buy, do all that stuff. But I think have like having another sales aid, it's not gonna hurt you.

>> Well, big challenge that we faced was um for tutoring businesses. I mean, we go against monopolies like um businesses that like

>> have a lot of percentages of the sector. So how do you think us as an

>> everybody has a competitive advantage?

>> Well, how are you even surviving now then if these companies are so great?

>> So I guess one unfair advantage that we have is we tutor every single day twice a day and these are live calls that I guess made.

>> So you not a corporation. That's always the like so I so I had Allen which is our software company and we sold to agencies and so I also sold to gym owner agencies that were selling to the same exact people as me. So I literally sold to my competition and they would then ask me how to grow their business which was literally in direct conflict with the main business that I had. Right? But the thing was is they were like well how do we compete with you because you're crushing us. Um, and I would say, "Well, everybody has this has an advantage. Like, if I'm you, like me being them, they were smaller." I'd be like, "You're just a number in Alex's business. Like, you're going to get an account rep and they're just going to follow a process. And if you cancel, he doesn't care. Like, there there's just this massive, you know, faceless thing. If you're with me, it's like, you're going to get my cell phone number. I'm going to be the one who's actually taking care of you." Like, Alex is great, but he's not going to be the one talking to you. Like, it's us. Like, we're actually doing this every day. And like, we'll be able to help your kid more. That's the advantage. Now, if I'm me, I'd be like, "These kids are in their basement. You don't even know if they're going to be here next year." And there's a reason they're small. It's because they're not good. If they were good, they get bigger, right? Because the market would demand that they get bigger because they're so good. And so, like, we're Coca-Cola Classic. We're the original. And everything that they have is just a bastardized, diluted version of what I have.

>> Just framing it different.

>> Everybody has an advantage. And so, you just play the strength you have. And like when I came up because I it was like everyone forgots like when I started gym launch I was the small guy and so I was like he doesn't give a [ __ ] I was like I'm gonna [ __ ] stop it.

>> Now how did you I guess if we can make the safe assumption that gym launch is the monopoly.

>> Yeah.

>> From big bad wolf.

>> I actually told our marketing team that I was like we're big bad wolf

>> 100%.

>> From a no no name or how did you turn that into a monopoly? You just keep going until eventually everyone's gone. And a lot of times in that world too is like people go out of bit like you don't actually beat PE like there's this whole idea that you like put people out of business. It doesn't even really happen. People just like entrepreneur like think you're trying to start nine businesses, right? And so like there's some other guy who's in like the Moroccan, you know, print on demand market and if you decide to go to the US, that guy's going to be like, I I put that guy out of it's like he just he's going to change his mind because entrepreneurs do that. And so like if you just stick with something for a while, you just end up being like last man standing. And so like we just kept growing and everyone else stayed the same or you know switched and got out of the business. And so like we looked up 5 years later I was like oh we're bigger than everybody.

>> Just sticking to the same thing for a long period of time

>> and we just kept getting better and just fixing small things. It's like okay we need to put this ad creation process in place. We need to we need to start helping them work their leads better. We need to we just started just taking all the problems that gym owners had and just try to solve them.

Alex, what would you say the difference is like scaling from 10 to 100 versus 100 to a million on a month?

>> Wait, say it again.

Like, you know, like each each like magnitude higher has like a different like challenge. And you talk about people want to default to the starter Pokémon type of thing.

What do you think the biggest difference is from like 10 to 100? That that scaling goes 10,000 to 100,000? Got it. I was 10 to 100. I was like, why do you care? I was like, just get to 10 first.

Um, so 10 to Well, dude, at 10K, no one's consistent.

Yeah.

So, the big thing is is like no one like the business isn't consistent because you're inconsistent. And so, um, like when I walk through this mentally, it's like in the in the beginning, you don't know what to sell. So, give stuff away for free. Once you give stuff away for free, then get people to try and buy it or like, sorry. So, the point there is get people to try and try it. Uh, like the next stage is you're just trying to get people to buy it, which you use off the using success stories from the free people to sell paid people.

Um, now that you got people to buy it, you're inconsistent. So now we try and get people to be more consistent with it. Uh, then at that point it's like, okay, how do I do more? And so this is actually a framework that I've been um working on. And so this is like a repeated cycle that happens over and over and again in um in every business. So it just looks like so you have to start, right? You give away your free thing, then you do more of it, then you make it better, then you make it reliable, and then you do something else, and you start over. And so that happens like over and over and over again. In every single business, you just keep repeating the cycle. You start something, you do more of it, then you make it better, and then you see, can I make it reliable? You do it consistently and then you're like, "Okay, I've got this thing that is good and reliable and now I'm going to try and do something again." And so it's like it just happens over and over and over again.

And so like if you're at like 10K, you know, like fundamentally all we like all we have to do is sell more units or make them worth more. It's the only way to grow a business. And so it's like, okay, what are the things that are stopping us from doing that? What's stopping me from doing more? Well, in the beginning you're just not consistent. So just okay, we need to do like you will do more by just consistently doing. Okay, great. Now that we're consistently doing, okay, there's probably a bunch of holes in our [ __ ] so let's augment it. Let's make it better. Okay, now we're getting more for the effort we put in. All right, so when we do the leverage thing, it's like, okay, that means either I have to make a system around it or I have to get somebody else to do it for me and they, you know, give it to them, they follow the checklist. Once they can they can match your output, then it's like, great, I'm going to expand to do the next thing, which means either I'm going to do more again, hire somebody else, or I'm going to create more leverage, whatever it is. But it's just like you spin that. So I I run through these when I'm looking at like any department or any any process I'm looking, okay, do we need to do more? Do we need to make this better? Or is this unreliable? Do we need to make some sort of like make this more more error-free?

So that's interesting. So like so if we want to go from 100 to 200 or up to like a million, it's basically there's nothing magical. What happens when you hit these thresholds? It's just the same process. But I guess as you get more velocity, there are new challenges, I suppose, that happen amongst that. But I mean,

just getting more customers or making them worth It's the only way to grow. Like you guys you guys doubled mostly off the back end, which is making your customers worth more. Did your sales velocity go up by double?

No, not really.

Right. You kept people twice as long and so your revenue just kept doing this. Max, you've done a great job of this, right? I think. But you you've you've s you've pushed more people in the front end, too.

Yeah.

Yeah. But like I mean that's it. And so it's just like what's what's the thing that's stopping me from either doing more? Because sometimes it's like I have to do better in order to do more because that happens a lot. It's like my LTV is too low for me to be afford. All right. So I have to fix LTV, I have to fix churn, I have to fix retention and then I can go back because now I can afford the traffic and I can do more. So, like we had a company that we invested in that was doing, I think it was doing like 15 or 20 million bucks a year and we doubled LTV and because we doubled LTV, we were able to 5x our advertising spend profitably and keep the same 3 to 1 LTV to CAC ratio and we took it from 20 to 100. Obviously, there was a gazillion things that happened in between there, but like that was fundamentally what happened.

That's a simple framework. Yeah. Affiliates should give you almost double.

I know. Waited. We're eagerly awaiting affiliates.

For what? Oh, affiliates.

Maybe a practical question. What percentage split do you typically run for your affiliates?

Who are you asking?

Well, how are you building the tool? Decide which way.

I think you'll just I think the easiest way to do it instead of giving you a field to put in any number would probably just to allow you to do like 50, 40, 30, 20. I don't know if even offering 10 makes sense. Does anyone offer 10? Cuz you want the affiliate thing to be successful?

Huh?

It's too low. 10 is too.

Yeah. So maybe we'll just do 20, 30, 40. Does anyone off? I've seen 50s. I think.

We do 10% per high ticket. There's people offering 25 as well. So,

yeah, but that I mean they can just round up.

Yeah.

If I had a digital thing.

So, maybe we just give you a form field and you can put in a number.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you guys are going to want every number. I mean, [ __ ].

Yeah. That.

That's a 100 things in a dropdown. Better to just give you a field.

Mhm. Oh, and then commission bumps for super affiliates.

Oh, no. Too much.

Some people should deserve more if they're going to.

They make more by doing more. They are already incentivized.

Do it. You can you can do your competition around that though.

Yeah.

Pop affiliate gets buck.

Well, the thing is is you can so think about like this is sure you like they get this just give them bonuses.

Right?

Yeah. You could unlock things when they hit a certain level, right?

Yeah.

Would you consider recurring and one-time payment? What?

Recurring and one-time payment. So, like two options.

Means for like course sales. Is that what you're saying? Like the onetime purchases?

No, for the affiliates. So, they can Yeah. The the community owner can set up um the affiliate system whereby they pay them on a recurring basis. They can pay the affiliates on a recurring basis or.

But who who really does one time?

We'll have less adoption. I think one time.

Yeah. Cuz we they want we want it to work for them and I think they want it to work for them, too. So, we should kind of give them the options that will most likely work, right? Otherwise, we're making it more complicated and then we're giving people more buttons to hurt themselves with.

Way to fails. Yeah.

Yeah. You don't want to let the customer ruin themsel like. Well, you should make it hard at least.

I don't. But as for the the the amount, I think it's I mean, it's entirely like it's up to you. Like it's at the end of the day it's like what how can I it depends on what how much they're doing, right? Like are they are they are they doing everything around like it just how much are the affiliates doing? Um and you just want them to actually do it. I mean, I think it really just comes down to that like you just actually want them to promote it all the time. Like the perfect world. Like either it's going to be they own a business and they're going to tag your thing along with their thing, right? Or it's going to be that this is their entire business and they don't want to do anything except for just like let you run. Like they're just going to promote. That's all they want to do. And I think those are two different types of avatars in terms of affiliates. Some people are like, "Oh, I just promote Jack stuff. That's all I do. I just that's all I do."

Even offering 40% lifetime, I still think it's hard to get people to promote your stuff. So, like if you do less than that, it's going to be even harder.

This is why I'm like I I'd give away a ton because it's it's a digital it's a digital thing. You know what I mean? If I can actually get somebody to full-time promote then then awesome. You know, like I'll give 80%. Like I know I'm still making 20 on money I wasn't going to make anyways. And I still get the viral effect of like if that person refers somebody or whatever.

Yeah. Spirit.

And get the brand lift overall.

And then a sort of slight pivot on that, Alex, like you started emailing more, I think you just said earlier.

Yeah.

What's your cadence for volume on that?

Yeah. So, we do three times um we do three times a week. We do one kind of longer one targeted at um business owners on the list.

Uh, we do longer ones and then I do two what I call Mosy Money Minutes. And so they're 60-second emails that are all just like super super tactical.

Different lists. Uh, yes.

Because I I get the two, not the bigger one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You weren't big enough.

Yeah. So, it's uh people who are big enough to come to a workshop, uh, they get the longer email as well. And so, typically, Leila writes the longer email that's usually more like team and operational focused. And then I just usually write the two tactical emails that are like I actually it's actually kind of tough to think, okay, how can I give something hyper tactical that works for all businesses? If I'm working with gyms, there's a ton of things I can do, but it's not going to work for you guys or it's not going to work for an e-commerce business or a SAS company. So, it's like I have to think like what is it what is a tactic that works, which is typically around uh offers, finance, strategy, prioritization, people. Like those are kind of the buckets that all businesses have to have to do. And so I think about think about like that. But the way that um I had a big decision overall, which is like from a subject perspective, some people just like they have different uh subjects for every one of them. I wanted to create a little mini brand for Mosy Money Minute. And so all of the Mosy Money Minutes start with Mosy Money Minute: and then whatever the topic is because over time I was hoping that if I can build a little mini brand man for Mosy Money Minute, then I'm going to get people to read it, remember it's great, and then over time they're just I'm going to train the train the open. They're just going to as soon as they see it, they'll just click it to open it. And so I think about uh the email structure as like what what kind of behavior do I want to reward, right? And so I want to reward the open. And so for me, the first line after the email is uh the highest performing tweet of the last week um or one of my higher performing tweets. So I know that people like that. Then after that, I go to the meat of the Mosy Money minute, which I keep for under 200 words so that it stays under 60 seconds um for the read. Then I'll have my CTA inside of my uh inside of the email. And then I'll have a sign off, which is usually just like something funny. And again, so it's like I want to reward them opening with the first line. And then uh you want to train the click out. And so the thing I'll try and almost every email has something that they can click on that's that's fun or interesting.

And it's more Do you do a jabs right half? Like how many are like actual?

I don't even I actually don't I don't do any right hooks. I just jab.

You just jab jab.

Yeah. Just jab to death.

Take them around the world. Yeah.

Yeah. I just like I it's I just think it works fine. Like basically like once you get enough volume, I just I want to never shrink because of my asks. And so then I'd rather just ask regularly just like you like you the same strategy you're using on YouTube. You're still growing and you're gaining customers.

And so it's like I just I'd rather just fix my ask ratio so that I can give sorry that I can grow and monetize at the same time.

And that's pretty much that's pretty much how I've done with email and it's been it's worked well. And do you write emails under the assumption that people reading it? I don't know. Do they have to read 50 emails in 10 minutes and they're on the move and like you treat every word is almost if they're reading it under very rushed conditions.

Sure I do.

Yeah. I I suppose that philosophy feels like it carries everywhere. YouTube hooks, ad hooks, Instagram, like across the whole book.

I write emails the way that I would want to read them. And I hate email, which is why I think I've been so slow to adopt email for every business I've had. I just hate email. And so I just am like, if I were going to read an email, I'd want it to be just straight to the point.

Like and I think we fill in the same boat actually because we don't really touch much of the email. One of my many concerns that's why I have the volume side cuz I'm a little concerned of overwhelm. I'm part of those groups where it feels like every six hours I'm getting an email and to be fair, it does put them top of mind, but I I'm I'm just conscious I don't want to fall into like spam.

No, I get it.

Crisp sniper with value.

The alternative is that you don't email them and they don't think about you at all to begin with. So like it's so one of the big fears is like I don't want people to unsubscribe from my list when I email them. It's like, well, then you can just never email then why bother having a list.

Same thing. Yeah.

Right. And so I think like you have to I had to walk myself through this because I actually have the same fears. And so um I was actually talking to Frank who was out here one or two times ago and he had a really good frame for this. He was like, it's just content, dude. It's just another platform for content. And he's like, they're not going to read every email you send. And I'm like, "What? This masterpiece that I said." He's like, "They're not they don't see every reel that you post. They don't see every every, you know, YouTube video you put out. They're not going to read every email. So if you send two emails or three emails, they might read one. As long as the one that they read was good, you're good." And so it's just really making sure I think that for me at least the the big thing is just making sure that every email is good because I think it's worse to have it's it's not about having too many emails and I think it's more about having bad emails.

Where because it's like as soon as someone opens it's like that was a waste of my time. That might just be enough. It's like removing the friction that just might be enough to never consume another email again. And that's I'd rather just send fewer emails that are always meet the quality standard than be like and so I've never committed to a cadence to be clear. So, like I send about two, but if I don't have like another, I'll send one or I'll send done. I'm okay with that. And I've done the same thing with our content. Like, if we don't I would rather not put a YouTube video out than put a bad one out.

Yeah. You I love that you've been a big evangelist for proof. I think that's really um really bold, really impactful. How have you thought about sharing because one of the things I want to do my YouTube community section now is share so and so got this incredible win. He just made 20K from X. I'm thinking about ways we can surface those wins.

Don't make it that sounds like an ad. Just make do it as a as a case study. Do it as a breakdown. So to be like this was the person's current condition. And so you want to like look at the audience be like, hey, so I want to tell you guys about this uh this company XYZ, this guy John or whatever, and he was struggling with this. So if you're struggling with this, then this is definitely for you. And what we did was we had this this plan, right? So we have our promise, we have our proof, we have our plan, right? Same same format. And it's like, and so what I'm going to break down this video is the six things that we did and three of them worked and three of them didn't, but I'm going to walk you through them all so that you can save some time. All right. So, the first thing we did was this, and this is like this is what before was, this is what after was. This is the result. Great. Second thing we did, this is before. This is the after. This is the result. And so, you walk through it. Now, that's like that's a really good educational piece of content. But implied within the whole thing is that you helped this guy win.

And that carries over to say the community tab on YouTube or emails, which is you're not posting it like, "Hey, this guy made this win." It's his education in the win.

No, I think that's spammy.

Well, what if you vlogged you at one of these meetups?

Yeah, I think that's when we want to stop doing that. Showing the community in your content and then you could even ask them, so what what do you do? And then they're like they're saying what they did. So it doesn't feel like it, but it's a promotion and a testimonial and a vlog.

Yeah. It feels better coming from them actually because they've done it. Yeah.

You can do like a live podcast at the event as well. That can work really well, right?

Yeah. That's not a bad idea. Actually, they can't go anywhere anyway. They all want the room. So we'll just get get them drinking coffee to record. But if you can get everything to work together like that, like if you're going to go there, then you could turn it into a a vlog and then you could send an email afterwards with like the key insights.

Send.

Yeah.

Yeah. You can make everything work together.

Um, did we want to end cuz we're going to do the ads.

In like 30 minutes.

But the thing that we did at the end of the last event that people found helpful was like, what are you going to do when you get home?

Okay, let's rock through it. What's that one thing you're going to do that'll absolutely like make sure.

Yes. So, you should write down to do.

Yeah.

First.

You're going to have the number system, too. You can try that. Notepad with numbers.

Just use number one.

Yeah. You just Yeah. One.

Yeah. Put one through 10 and just erase two through nine.

Now, write down number one. Besides adding a cancellation video immediately.

Does anyone know what they're going to do?

What?

Quick win. I need to have a better quick win. I'm going to uh I have a white label right now that I give to people that I just launched, but I have it behind like a pay wall kind of t time wall essentially. Um, everybody's eating it up. It's only been three days. I'm just going to put it at the front. Just give it to them. Give it to them. You got you have to stay a part of the community to keep it. That way they're dialed from day one, locked in. They get a logo, their own domain, a website in 30 seconds. So, right now I have three communities and it's really just because I got into school. I wanted to win and see everybody experience it. But, um, really like my agency that I've been running for three years, uh, my main product is AI voice agents, AI infrastructures. I basically help automate client acquisition. But what I realized is my most valuable product, what everybody really wants is the voice agent. And I feel like I can attack one specific market and just get to 10 million a month instead of wasting my time doing everything I'm doing, managing um all these communities just because it's something I'm interested in. I talked to Matthew and I think I need to stop doing like 99% of everything I'm doing. What's your what's your honest advice? Like if the voice agent's my most valuable product and let's say I can go into an industry like dental offices and just replace reception, that's all I do. I mean, what's your advice? Cuz right now, honestly, YouTube in school, I just do it because it's fun. I.

Mean, it sounds like you already made your decision.

I do want to hear what you have to say.

But why do you care? Cuz I want to see if it would like, should I continue doing what I'm doing or should I just cut back?

Well, what do you think you should do?

Whatever's most profitable. You have you know a lot about your situation. So, what does your instinct tell you to do?

I think I could be much more effective if I just cut back everything and just focus on one thing.

Then you should do that.

Thank you. I figured it would go like that.

That's cool.

Um, I've got a lot actually, but I've had one I'd call it like like defluffification. I think.

Defluffification.

Yeah. Defluffification. Yeah. Um, be clinical on what we're doing, why we're doing it, removing loss. I think work to this framework. Um, and just make sure we're getting like maximum return per unit of invested time and try to cut out the fluff for it.

I got three things. Um, one of them is just to like we're doing the right thing. Like I talked about the parents and kids, but we just need to do more of what we're doing. Like you said, it's just volume. Second thing, I want to get a low ticket and then sell because we have so many people in our free community just like poor. They want cheaper stuff. Like they want to increase their just poor. So I'm probably going to do a low ticket for that. And then third is going based off what we say. Sam, just get our students the best results in the entire industry.

What if you did one and three?

And skip two?

Yeah. It's two. Two is not a good idea.

Two is another business. Yeah.

Well, you're only doing it because you're like, these people can't buy. We've already got them. But so that's generally the wrong way to come to a decision.

Does it help you build the best SAT prep?

I think one of the things that we need to do is really have a better mission statement because we haven't been doing we our goal has not been to build the best SAT prep. It's been to make money.

So I think going off of that whole conversation earlier with just building a better product, having that mission would probably make us more money.

Yeah. I think everyone starts trying to make money cuz you need it.

Yeah. But once you've got enough, then you look for something deeper. Plus, you also need a lot of money to do something really big and to focus more long-term, right?

Actually, I think it's one of the biggest. We had a conversation like two or three school days ago about this, but like the the big point of having a little bit of money like saved up and having a really low lifestyle is purely for the purpose of being able to think longer term. Like that is the like you will beat other pe other players by simply thinking long and you'll make way better decisions thinking long. Like you you can't like if you want to build a brand, which I think everybody here would be like that's a really good idea. Well, that takes two years. It takes two years.

It's so easy to beat someone that just wants to make a lot of money. Their margin is your opportunity.

Let's try that. Yeah.

It's a Bezos.

That's a Bezos.

So yeah, literally are you done? Sorry. Oh, my second thing was um going to be that we should double down on organic marketing because we had both paid and organic and affiliates, but the biggest winner was by far the organic. So, we're just going to, you know, kind of cut out the rest and focus on that. I think.

Yeah, I'd ask a lot of deep questions like why do you want to do this? Why do you care? Why do people why do parents why do why do they even want to go to Harvard? I was curious about that.

Ask. We just stopped at Harvard. But like why do they even want their kids to go there?

Because it's a fixed belief in society. Plus they get pressure from their parents. Um, plus they think it's the golden ladder to success, which a lot of students a lot of people in our age do. The short question is they don't know why they want to go to Harvard. I mean, the short answer.

You want to go to Stanford. Why do you want to go to Stanford?

Because I want to be in Silicon Valley and have ideas. I want to be around bigger and better ideas. And in that area, that's where they are.

That's what you want.

That's what I want.

Okay. It's interesting because the prevailing consensus is don't hire people from Stanford and Harvard.

What?

Yeah. Really?

You don't hire people from there?

Well, no. They kind of suck now. Like like honestly, like a lot of great talent is not coming out of the IB Leagues anymore.

Not Stanford.

Yeah, they've changed. I'm sure there's still brilliant people at Stanford, but like it's definitely changed.

Just crushing his dreams.

You should do it.

Well, you can get into Silicon Valley and build [ __ ] without going to Stanford for sure. In fact, most of them did.

Yeah, most of them dropped out. They got into dropout to have the dropout story.

I work with most of them.

What if the.

Yeah. What if I do the same?

I think that's the goal is to just say that I was a Stanford dropout.

That carries more name.

That does.

Because that'd be funny.

That carries more name than.

I worked in Silicon Valley for a while and I went to a super shitty liberal arts college in the Midwest. If you want a recommendation, it's been worked. It worked really well. That's like a It's not about the school. I feel like you know.

Who's got other things they're going to do?

The homepage revamp our video first 30 seconds and then Ryan's got a really good testimonial video on his just like testimonial after testimonial for 6 minutes. We need to get both them videos straight up.

Love that.

So back to our product. Um, I think getting every single customer's feedback is pretty important. We have been doing that, but I think when we get back, we should do it to every single person just so that we have feedback on each and one of those to really make it a product where every student is getting the results. I guess some tactical thing that I would do is um try to fill out the missed opportunities that we missed. Like one thing was Instagram stories. I've never really considered that. Um, so I think that's one thing that we would start.

Um.

You've already named like four.

You've added so much.

You just you just ruined your life.

Yeah. Now you're following every customer for feedback and exploring a totally new like dimension of social media on top of everything else.

Well, I think it was a missed opportunity that has a high return.

Where do most of your customers come from now?

All organic.

From where though?

IG.

Like what?

From where?

Like like.

Reels and [ __ ] right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it's because we haven't done much stories though. Like our data is pretty limited.

So maybe exploring stories is fine, but I don't think you need to follow every customer for their feedback. You probably know.

Yeah.

Right now what's wrong with your product.

Yeah, it's probably like the question sets themselves.

No, it's it's really obvious to you. Yeah.

So just fix those and then by the time you fix those, you'll have new ones that you know it never ends. You don't really need to ask. Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, one of the first things we want to implement is running traffic directly to our about page instead of running them through the entire sequence to test that like the difference in conversion. So, I think that would be one of the quick wins and I believe that it will definitely make a big change.

Cool. This would definitely worth testing.

We're going to create an onboarding process and add a consumable to the product to reduce churn and also create one educational video per week.

Cool.

To win the games, we uh we went pretty hard on ads, as you may know. And I want to bring it back into the the classroom because we got a lot of high ticket clients and we learned a lot about how we could get our customers much better conversion and just more of the result that people are in the group to get. And so we just want to bring it back to the classroom and put our mind power to like simplifying the classroom and adding all the most effective things to get people more resulted. Anyone else have anything?

Two. I'll do um the the charting out video. I don't really have one of those things. That'll Are you saying 7%?

Total or you say could be basis price for me?

Basis.

Okay. Still worth something.

Uh, the second things I want to remove. I'm going to find one thing to remove in my classroom. That delete thing.

That's great. It's also less work.

Yeah. Just one thing cuz all of it is valuable of course, but own it. Remove one thing and then see if anybody mentions it.

I love that.

A good habit by the way to get you into this this like mode of removing. So you know your wardrobe if you if you twist around every coat hanger, you flip it right? Then every time you wear something, put it back the opposite way and after two weeks, look at how much is used. The rest of that stuff you got to force yourself to just put it in a clothing bin, donate it. And you can do that with everything. I tried to do it with everything. When my wife did our kitchen, I was like, I don't want cupboards. I want to see the plates because I'm tired of opening cupboards and trying to find the [ __ ] plates. And then she said, but the plates don't look good. And I was like, well, this will force you to buy ones that do. No, this is the mindset of like, do you get what I'm trying to say?

Yeah. You can simplify and sometimes it forces you to simplify something in order to enjoy the simplified solution cuz it exposes the problems. I swear cupboards only exist cuz people want to hide their mess. So sometimes if you force something out into the open, it forces you to clean it up.

Oh.

Sam doesn't even have a drawer for his knives. He has a magnet on the wall.

Yeah. Yeah, then the magnet for the knives. If you don't have one of those, it's a game changer. And then my pots are hanging up to right above the oven. Having things visible without being in cupboards.

Kids not old enough yet.

It's interface design actually. You're trying to figure out which things which things are clickable. It's like the the light the light switches that don't communicate their state drive me nuts. So like ones you just tap. What was wrong with the up and down? You could tell if it was on or off just by looking at it.

You should just look at the light.

Yeah, but there's there's something like really nice about using a classical one of those switches. Yeah, this is going really far into this field. But this is the sort of stuff I obsess about because that's how you make a good product. By the way.

I have I have the the same like I know some of you guys like bought the same short like I I put a I wore a hundred different types of shorts until I finally found the shorts that I liked and I probably I bought over a hundred pairs of shoes that I wear. It took me two years. Um, and so like I wear these shoes and um all my whole wardrobe is in my bedside drawer. So, I like get I like put my feet on the ground and then I just open my drawer and I have my shorts and my shirts and then I just put them on and I leave. And then I have eight pairs of these that are just sitting by the door lined up.

How many?

Eight.

Why not one?

Uh, I like you let them breathe cuz I don't wear socks.

But do you need eight?

I just like having more of them.

Let them breathe.

Yeah, just let them breathe.

H kind of shoes.

They're all.

Cuz you don't wear socks. Why don't you wear socks?

I hate wear I hate wearing socks. I deleted my life was better.

Yeah, but you got eight more shoes because of it.

But I don't I hate But then I don't have to do this whole thing and then they get like sometimes they roll out. I was like hate all of it and my feet get hot.

I love these things, man. Like this is this is what I live for. These kinds of decisions.

Kevin, what are you doing?

Thinking how to win the the school game then. Didn't you didn't you already win?

But I I can participate again, right?

Um, not unless it's battle royale.

Isn't battle royale now?

Right now? Yeah.

Right then.

So you could have been participating right now.

You afford it.

No, no, I am not participating right now.

Well, then.

Oh, you are?

No, I know.

He's not.

Okay. Well, you have to wait for the next battle royale.

Yeah, it's next now more.

But you can still make money.

You can still make money, which is also nice, right? That's.

Yeah. A lot. Yeah.

Yeah.

But can you create a new community and participate again?

I don't know what the rule is there.

Uh, I don't know how it works either. I think it's the person.

I don't think we've had anybody try to kill their business and then start it again just to win the games cuz that feels like the tail wagging the dog, if you will.

But we're going to come up with new ways to do the games to make keep it fun and exciting. We have.

Plans. We have plans.

Yeah. No.

There's there's sweet [ __ ] coming. You love the games, Keon. You.

Can you can you start a new community and and and go again?

How many Cyber Trucks you want?

You said you're going to win this month, though. But Max has got a pretty strong. At least last time I checked, you got a good good lead.

Days. I think you got something cooking as well.

Yeah, Max is so quiet today.

He's sitting across from his competitor.

Yeah, Max hasn't tried a single tactic today.

Yeah. Yeah. He also seems quite highrung.

You look bad.

But can you though? Can you create a new community?

I don't think so.

But we'll come up with other ways to make it.

Check with the rulemakers. We're both like I don't.

So, all right. So, anybody else have something they're going to do? Um, I'm just going to continue to perfect my product just copyrightiting instead of trying to build multiple communities at copyrightiting.

Love it.

So, I mean, you're deleting your low ticket.

You have to say yes or no right now.

Or just completely outsource it.

That never works, by the way. Never works. You'll be worrying about it every day.

Like a child from what I understand.

And it will and it will start to fail and then you'll feel like you have to step in and intervene.

It's my reputation. People are going to think that I suck because look at this terrible community.

Go for it, man.

So I want to remove myself from some areas of my company so I can focus on the highest ROI, which for me is creating content and creating courses and optimizing courses. Any recommendations on how to not how how not to create havoc when you remove yourself from from an area?

Well, you try and want to get somebody else to be able to do it. Depends on how core the area is. If you know, if he was like, I'm not doing any calls anymore, I was like, that would probably wreak some havoc. But if it's like, I'm not going to answer support tickets, it'll probably be okay. So, I would look at the lowest ROI areas first. Any other ones? Eugi, Madame Eug.

Um, I feel like we have so much in the community. So, just figuring out what to remove so that we can just simplify it more.

Deletion. Love it. It also takes the least amount of time.

Those are the best tasks. They take like 5 seconds. Do less.

Cool. You guys want to do a VSSL? Sweet. Let's rock.