Transcription
Have you faced any retaliation or arrivals for any of your testimony or anything on these lines?
Yeah, uh, I have to be careful what I say in detail because there is an open, uh, whistleblower reprisal investigation on my behalf, and I don't want to compromise that investigation by providing anything that may, uh, help provide somebody information. But it was very brutal and very unfortunate some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and and personally, to be quite frank.
Yeah, do you have any personal knowledge of people have been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology?
Yes, personally. Have you heard have anyone been murdered that you would think that you know of or have heard of? I guess I have to be careful asking that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.
Um, Mr. Grush, what about you? What was your experience after you came forward?
Well, uh, it's only been about two months or so, so I guess my experience has been, you know, overwhelming support from, uh, former colleagues of mine that have, you know, privately messaged me and and I do appreciate that. Uh, but I I do have knowledge of, um, active planned reprisal activity against myself and other colleagues, and it's very, very upsetting to me coming from where, uh, certain senior leadership at previous agencies I was associated with, and that's all I'll say publicly. But I can provide more details in a closed environment.
Yeah, there were certain colleagues of mine that were brutally administratively attacked, and it, you know, actually makes me very upset as a leader to see that happen to other co-workers and actually superiors of mine over the last three years.
How do you account for that response? That seems like a bizarre response.
I call it administrative terrorism. That's their their quiver, their tool in the toolbox to silence people, especially, you know, the career government service cares about their career, cares about their clearance, uh, their reputation to climb the ladder. And when you threaten that float career path, a lot of people back off. But I'm here to represent those people.
Um, to your knowledge, are NHIs working with adversarial foreign governments in either technology exchange programs or back engineering programs?
I don't have data on that. I'm not sure. Have you heard or you had people come forward to present that evidence? Not that particular evidence that you just espoused.
Okay, on the 19th of April, Dr. Kirkpatrick, head of AARO, had said that he did not find any evidence of UAPs. You also stated that you had, in your interview, that you had briefed him on information that you were uncovering, but that he did not follow up with you. Were the items that you divulged to him pertinent to National Security?
Yes. Him and I had a classified conversation in April 2022, before he took over AARO, in July 2022, and I provided him some concerns I had.
Do you know why he might not have followed up with you?
Uh, unfortunately, I cannot read his mind. I wish he did. I was, I was happy to give sage counsel to him on where to look when he took the helm of AARO.
Okay, and then my last question for you before I move to Mr. Graves is, um, you received prior approval from the Defense Department to speak on certain issues, correct?
Correct. Through D.O.D. pre-publication and security review. And I just want to remind the public, they're just looking from a security perspective. These are my own personal views and opinions, not the department's.
Okay, I'm asking that though mainly because I think that there are many people that would like to discredit you. So it does bring a certain amount of credibility to your testimony.
I'm required by law to do that as a former intelligence officer, or I go to jail for revealing classified information.
Yeah, we don't want you to go to jail. Mr. Grush, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself of non-human origin craft?
Yes, I personally interviewed those individuals.
Mr. Grush, as a result of your previous government work, have you met with people with direct knowledge or have direct knowledge yourself about ATS, advanced technologies that the U.S. government has, uh, based on conventional advanced tech?
I was briefed to the preponderance of the Defense Department's both space and aerospace compartment of programs.
Yeah, do you have knowledge or do you have reason to believe that there are programs in the advanced tech space that are unsanctioned?
Yes, I do.
Okay, yeah, and when you say that they're above congressional oversight, what do you mean?
Uh, complicated question. Uh, so there's, you know, some, I would call it abuse here. So congressional oversight of conventional special access programs. So I'll use Title 10, so DOD as an example, right? So 10 U.S. Code Section 119 discusses congressional oversight of SAPs, discusses, uh, the, the SecDef's ability to waive congressional reporting. However, the Gang of Eight is at least supposed to be notified if a, you know, waived or wave-bigoted, I'd acknowledge SAP is created, and that's public law.
Well, so that, how does, I mean, I don't want to cut you off, but how does a program like that get funded?
I will give you generalities. I can get very specific in a closed session. Uh, but a misappropriation of funds.
And, uh, does that mean, does that mean that there is money in the budget that is set to go to a program, but it doesn't, and it goes to something else?
Yes. I have specific knowledge of that.
Yep. Do you think U.S. corporations are over, overcharging for certain tech they're selling to the U.S. government, and that additional money is going to programs?
Correct. Through something called IRAD.
Okay, um, satellite imagery. Let's talk about satellite imagery. We have satellites all over the place, some that we're aware of and many that we're not aware of, right? We're taking pictures of everything at every point in second. Uh, Mr. Grush, are you aware, do you have direct knowledge, we talked to people, direct knowledge that there are satellite imagery of these events?
That was one of my primary tasks at NGA, since we process, exploit, and disseminate that kind of information. I've seen multiple cases, some of which, to my understanding, and of course, I left NGA in April, so that's my information cutoff date. But I personally, um, reviewed both, uh, what we call overhead collection and from other strategic and tactical platforms that were, I could not even explain prosaically, and I have a degree in physics, by the way, as well. And I had, I, I'm aware that you guys have not seen these, um, reports. Unfortunately, and I don't know why it is.
Do you have direct knowledge, we had spoken people with direct knowledge that this imagery applies to crash sites? Crash, crash imagery?
I can't discuss that in an open session.
Okay, uh, do you have any information that the U.S. government is involved in a disinformation campaign to deny the existence of certain UAPs?
I can't go beyond what I've already stated publicly in my NewsNation interview because it touches other sensitivities.
Okay, as a U.S. government become aware of actual evidence of extraterrestrial, otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence, and if so, when do you think this first occurred?
I like to use the term non-human. I don't like to denote origin. Keeps the aperture open, both scientifically. Uh, certainly, like I've discussed publicly, uh, previously, 1930s.
Okay, can you give me the names and titles of the people with direct first-hand knowledge and access to some of this crash retrieval, some of these crash retrieval programs, and maybe which facilities, military bases that would the recovered material would be in?
I can't discuss that publicly, but I did provide that information both to the Intel committees and the Inspector General.
And we could get that in the SCIF, if we were allowed to get in a SCIF with you, would that be probably what you would think?
Sure, if you had the appropriate accesses.
Yeah, uh, what special access programs cover this information, and how is it possible that they have evaded oversight for so long?
I do know the names. Once again, I can't discuss that publicly. And how they've evaded oversight, I, in a closed setting, I can tell you the specific tradecraft used.
All right, when did, when do you think those programs began, and who authorized them?
I do know a lot of that information, but that's something I can't discuss publicly because since.
All right, what level of security clearance is required to fully access these programs?
Certainly, difference between member access and say somebody like me, but anybody who has a, you know, TS/SCI clearance and meets the eligibility criteria, the access adjudicative authority should be able to grant you access.
Miss Merchant, feel, so just to be put a fine point on that, there's nothing that you're aware of that's above special access program classification. It's a misnomer that there's anything actually above Top Secret. Executive Order 13526 delineates the classification levels, right? And but I, I draw a point on that because we can have access to to those programs, and so the notion that we're not being given that access sort of defies our typical muscle memory here in Congress. Thank you, Mr. Merchant. I'll yield back to you. Thank you, Mr. Gates. Along those lines, Title 10, and you might not know this or not, but that Title 10 and Title 50 authorization, as they seem to say they're inefficient. So who gets to decide this, in your opinion?
In the past, uh, it's a group of career senior executive officials.
Are they government officials?
Does it announce what both in and out of government? And that's about as far as.
All right, well, that's it. Leads to my next question. Which private corporations are directly involved in this program? How much taxpayer money has been invested in these programs to your knowledge?
Yeah, I don't know these specific metrics. Towards the end of your question, uh, the specific corporations, I did provide to the committees in specific divisions, and I spent 11 and a half hours with both Intel committees.
Has there been any, has there been an active U.S. government disinformation campaign to deny the existence of unidentified aerial phenomena, and if so, why?
I can't go beyond what I've already exposed publicly about that.
What have you stated publicly in your interviews for the Congressional Record?
Uh, yeah, if you reference my NewsNation interview, and I talk about a multi-decade, you know, campaign to disenfranchise public interest, basically.
Yeah, if you were me, where would you look? Titles, programs, departments, regions, if you could just name anything, um, and I put that as an open question to the three of you.
I'd be happy to give you that in a closed environment. I can tell you specifically.
Thank you. At one point, you said that they're, they're my, there has been harmful activity or progressive activity. Has any of the activity, um, been aggressive, been hostile in your reports?
I know of multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured, and, uh, the activity, and I gotta buy, buy UAPs or buy, buy people within the federal government, both.
Okay, so there has been activity by, by alien or non-non-human technology and or beings that has caused harm to humans?
Uh, I can't get into the specifics in an open environment, but at least the activity that I personally witnessed, and not to be very careful here because you don't, you know, they tell you never to acknowledge tradecraft, right? So what I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing.
You've said that U.S. and has intact spacecraft. You said that the government has alien bodies or alien species. Have you seen, have you, have you seen the spacecraft?
I have to be careful to describe what I've seen firsthand and not in this environment, but I could answer that question behind, behind closed doors.
And have you seen any of the bodies?
That's something I've, I've not witnessed myself.
And with that being said, you have mentioned that there's interdimensional potential. Could you expound on that?
I'll get to answer your first question, and, you know, I'm here as a fact witness, an expert. But I, I will give you a, a theoretical framework at least to work off to kind of expose crashes, uh, regardless of, you know, your level of sentience, right? You know, planes crash, cars crash. Number of sorties, what, however high, a small percentage are going to end in, you know, mission failure. For well, as we say in the, in the Air Force. And then in terms of multi-dimensionality, that kind of thing, the, the framework that I'm familiar with, for example, is something called the holographic principle. Both, uh, it's, it drives itself from general relativity and quantum mechanics, and that is, if you want to imagine a 3D object such as yourself casting a shadow onto a 2D surface, that's the holographic principle. So you can be projected, quasi-projected from higher dimensional space to lower dimensional. It's a scientific trope that you can actually cross, literally, as far as I understand. But there's probably guys with PhDs that we can probably argue about that.
But you have not seen any documentation that that's what's occurring, only a theoretical framework discussion?
Okay, okay. These aircraft, um, have they been identified that they are being produced by, by domestic, um, you know, military and contractors? Is there any evidence that that's what's being recovered?
Not to my knowledge. Plus, the recoveries predate a lot of our advanced programs that I previously am waiting of.
So, um, would it be safe to say that there could be a scenario today where you have an aircraft that crashes, and because it's been involved in one program from one federal agency, and the, but the, but the agency that retrieves it is not aware of that program, and to them, it appears alien in origin?
I mean, that's a hypothetical situation. I'm not aware of any, uh, historical situation that would match that that you described.
So you're not aware, it has not happened that you're aware of?
That I'm aware of.
Um, what percentage of UAPs do you feel are adequately investigated by the U.S. government?
Of the five percent that are reported, um, I can only speak for my personal leadership over at NGA. I tried to look at every report that came through that I could triage.
So do you believe that officials at the highest levels of our national security apparatus have unlawfully withheld information from Congress and subverted our oversight authority?
There are certain elected leaders that had more information that I'm not sure what they've shared with certain Gang of Eight members or etc. But, uh, certainly, uh, I would not be surprised.
Okay, you've stated that the government is in possession of potentially non-human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligent extraterrestrials?
Something I can't discuss in a public setting.
Um, okay. I can't ask when you think this occurred. If you believe we have crashed craft, stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?
As I've stated publicly already in my NewsNation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries.
Yeah, um, were they, uh, human biologics, non-human?
And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still on the program.
And was this documentary evidence? Is video, photos, eyewitness? Like, how would that be determined?
The specific documentation, I would have to talk to you in a SCIF about what agency, sub-agency, what contractors, who should be called into the next hearing about UAPs, either in a public setting or even in a private setting. And you probably can't name names, but what agencies or organizations, contractors, etc., do we need to call in to get these questions answered, whether it's about funding, what programs are happening, and what's out there?
I can give you a specific cooperative and hostile witness list of specific individuals that were in those.
And how soon can we get that list?
I'm happy to provide that to you after the hearing.
Is there any indication that the Department of Energy is involved in UAP data collection and housing?
I don't have an answer. I can't confirm or deny that in a public setting.
And could you do it in a secure setting?
Yes.
Do you have any personal knowledge of someone who's possibly been injured working on legacy UAP reverse engineering?
I can't get into specifics, but you can imagine assessing an unknown unknown. There's a lot of potentialities you can't fully prepare for.
Why is it that you referred to the phenomenon as non-human intelligence? Why deviate from the basis of extraterrestrial life?
I think the phenomenon is, uh, a very complex, and I like to leave an open mind analytically to specific origin.
When you say, can you elaborate on that for those that might?
If it's a traditional extraterrestrial origin or something else that we don't quite understand from either a biological or astrophysics perspective, you know, just like the, keep an open mind on what it could be.
To your knowledge, are there safety measures in place with foreign governments or other superpowers to avoid an escalatory situation in the event that a UAP, um, malevolent event occurs?
Uh, yeah, you're referring to actual a public treaty in the UN register. It's funny you mentioned that. The Agreement on Measures to Reduce the Risk of Outbreak of Nuclear War, signed in 1971, unclassified treaty, publicly available. And if you cite the George Washington University National Security Archives, you will find the declassified in 2013 specific provisions in the specific Red Line flash message traffic with the specific codes pursuant to Article 3 and Article, also Situation Two, which is in the, the previously classified NSA archive. What I would recommend, and I, I tried to get access, but, uh, uh, I got a wall of silence at the White House, was the specific incidents when those, um, message traffic was used. I think some scholarship on that would open the door to a further investigation using those publicly available information.
Thank you. And then my last question with 51 seconds remaining. You even white-collar crime, intentionally being taking place in regards to a cover-up? Can you please elaborate?
I have concerns based on the interviews I conducted under my official duties of potential violations of the Federal Acquisition Regulations, the FAR.
You've been able to answer in great detail on certain questions, and then other things you say you're not able to respond to. Can you just explain where you're drawing the line and what's the basis for that?
Yeah, based on my D.O.D. security review and what they've determined that is unclassified.
I see. So you're answering any questions that just call upon your knowledge of an unclassified questions, but anything that relates to classified matters, you're not commenting on in this context, in an open session, but happy to participate in a closed session at the right level.
Yeah. Starting with Mr. Graves, why did you come forward on this issue?
Purely a sense of duty. I first swore an oath when I was a cadet 18 years ago, and I, I still uphold that even out of the uniform.
Let me ask you, how can the public contribute to UAP reporting, and what avenues do you think are available to the public to report these sightings?
I'll just touch on the whistleblower side. If it's, I do encourage, you know, current, former military, intelligence community, and industry contractors to come forward in a legal way, either through the IC or DOD or whatever the cognizant IGs are, to lead, you know, lead, you know, join me in this discussion.