Transcription
Backstage America begins. Joining me to deliver this program is Mr. Yoshiyuki Kato, Professor of Literature at Rikkyo University. Please. Please. Yes. So, Backstage America is a program that introduces American backstages, the behind-the-scenes aspects of America, through books, movies, and music that are easy for viewers to get their hands on, and then interprets America through its ideology. Today, Mr. Kato, I'm looking forward to it. The theme is food. Food. American food is also diverse, isn't it? Yes. Do you have any favorite foods, Mr. Kato? It's difficult to say what my absolute favorite is. I have so many. I will be introducing some today, but among Southern cuisine, um. Barbecue. Ah, barbecue. Yes. There's something called barbecue. Yes. So, it's categorized as Southern cuisine? Well, yes. In the South, they do things like smoke roasting, but when people think of Japanese barbecue, um. They think of going to the riverside in the summer and grilling meat, but it's actually not like that at all. There's a specific way of cooking for barbecue, where they slow-cook large chunks of meat, like beef, for a long time. That's barbecue cuisine. There's something called brisket, which is a long cut of beef, or pulled pork, which is tender, shredded pork. They'll take that and put it between bread and eat it. Um, I don't know if you've been to Tokyo, but in Harajuku, there's a place called Smokehouse. I love it. Yes. I've been there. I really love it too. Um, you can eat barbecue that's quite similar to what you'd eat in America. Yes. The meat is big and it just falls apart, or rather, how do you say it? It's so tender. Yes, yes, yes. Like cheese that tears apart, meat like that. That's not a good analogy. It's not a good analogy, but it's delicious. It's delicious. And what's more, the sides are also great, like cornbread, which is bread made from corn flour, or coleslaw. You can also eat various sides. I especially like Smokehouse. Yes. Um. I talked too much. How was it? No, it's perfectly fine. Barbecue. Yes. Yes. Barbecue. Well, well, it's a bit of a story, isn't it? Yes. Yes. Do you have any other favorites? Other favorites? For American cuisine, I quite like, um, creative sushi rolls in America. Ah, like California rolls? Yes, yes, yes. I liked them. And there was a place called Zen in the Village area of New York, but it's gone now. It had a clearly suspicious vibe. That's very American. Yes, but sometimes when I wanted sushi, I'd go there. They had all sorts of creative rolls. Recently, they've started appearing in Japan too, but my favorite was something called the Dragon Roll. It had fried seafood on top, with mango, and a slightly spicy sauce drizzled over it, and it was cut up. You'd never think of something like that in Japan, but it was incredibly delicious. So, Americanized sushi, in its own way, was delicious. Um. Yes. It seems like you won't stop talking today. Yes. So, to organize our discussion, we've prepared an agenda, so we'll proceed according to this. Today is a serious discussion. A serious discussion. Backstage America is a program that goes deep, so please. Yes. 1. America is an experiment in food culture. 2. Fast food as national cuisine. And 3. Southern cuisine steeped in history. The concept of this program is the "B-side," meaning we want to talk about the deep, unseen aspects. To start with the thesis, precisely this experiment in food, the book "The New American Food Culture" by Mr. Suzuki is truly wonderful. He's a famous American studies scholar. What I found to be insightful, right from the beginning, was that many people immediately think of hamburgers and french fries when they think of American food. However, these are not foods of the Native Americans who lived on the American continent, nor were they part of the repertoire of the early English settlers. Hamburgers are German cuisine, and french fries are French or Belgian style. Americans also love pizza, but that's Italian. In the end, Americans are constantly experimenting with food. As you mentioned, the story of sushi, making interesting sushi. Um. They have an image of eating only fast food, and while there are issues with food and health, there are also gourmet burgers, aren't there? There's a lot of diversity in different regions, which is truly characteristic of Backstage America – there are countless stories to be found in the background. Do you feel like it's a food laboratory? Like they're experimenting with everything? Yes. This is probably common in any place where culture develops. In Japan, we've taken things from overseas, like castella or tempura, and localized them, further developing them. We have our own unique Italian, French, and Chinese cuisines, so that aspect certainly exists. But in America's case, as we discussed last time about the 10 regions, their cultural backgrounds are so diverse. The interactions that unfold there, or perhaps what I would call division in a good sense, where various cultures interact and create new things. For example, Cajun cuisine in the Louisiana region, New Orleans, was originally a French territory. Then, there was Caribbean influence, and Black culture was incorporated, resulting in very rich cuisine. The food eaten there is also creative and experimental in that sense. Um. Also, the food you eat can send a message. Veganism is easy to understand, but when I was in Silicon Valley, people ate a lot of salads. Salads are very healthy, and not eating fried food or fast food is an expression of their way of life, their ideology. Food and one's way of life, identity – it's like that in any country, but you can really see it in America. That's probably quite true. Americans, as I've said on this program many times, clearly express who they are through language. And I think food is one of those rituals, one of those ceremonies, through which they express, "This is the kind of person I am." Japanese people tend to blend in and not stand out, but in America, they clearly express their identity. They're good at it. Through language, and through food. "This is what I believe in." And sometimes it can become quite proselytizing, or rather, they want others to know it too. "Why are you vegan? Why is the beef industry so bad for the environment?" They can explain it properly, not just superficially. I feel like they understand the underlying issues, not just the food itself. Yes. Also, when I lived on the West Coast, many people carried bottles like this, exactly like this. Yes. This is due to environmental issues, plastic problems, etc. Of course, whether carrying this is good for the environment is a separate discussion, but when you ask why they carry a bottle, they'll talk your ear off. They'll explain the reasons. It's like Mr. Kato's barbecue stories. It feels like they have a strong conviction, a deep-seated belief. They can explain why they eat what they eat, what their background is, what their culture is, where their ancestors came from. It's quite intentional, in that sense. However, on the other hand, there are people who stick to fast food, and there's an economic disparity, isn't there? Having a certain level of余裕, they can afford to buy these bottles, which are probably not cheap. Yes. So, there are differences in those aspects. Perhaps just having this on screen makes us look like we're being conscious, or like we're annoying people. I don't mean to, I really did carry it. Yes. Also, Mr. Kato, your book on evangelicalism was a bestseller. How are religion and food related? They are quite related. Yes. They often incorporate religious principles. For Japanese people, religion isn't just about belief. What you believe in isn't the only aspect of religion. What's more important, as we've said many times on this program, is community. And in any community, there is always shared eating. So, you can form a community with people you can eat with. You don't usually eat with people you're wary of. You eat with people you trust and with whom you can build a community. So, in churches, for example, there are potlucks, where everyone brings something to share. On Sunday evenings, people bring their dishes to church, and in the large church hall, they choose what they like and eat, and they converse. It's not just about Christianity; they talk about how things are going, about school, hobbies, music. These potluck gatherings happen in America. By eating together, they become closer. It's like nomikai in Japan, but there's always something that the community promotes. Yes. Yes. Also, things like bread and wine have special meanings. Yes. In the context of, well, they've been very simplified now, and they're like wafers and small glasses of grape juice. But in their original context, it was the Last Supper. There are videos on YouTube that recreate the Last Supper, with lamb dishes, and they eat thin tortillas without leavening while having that meal. So, I think they believe that God is present when they eat together. Japan also has a strong tradition of shared eating. This is a bit about Japan, but at local festivals, and during the Emperor's enthronement ceremony, there's the Ohbarasai. Yes. Yes. There, eating with the gods is central. So, eating is important for religion. Yes. I see. So, as a thesis for today, America is more diverse than we think. It's not just fast food, and even fast food is a combination of various cultures, an experiment. Furthermore, eating is connected to religion, culture, and community. Now, let's move on to topic 2, fast food as national cuisine. There's a stereotype, and fast food is often equated with America. Ah, that's true. Perhaps it's because people drive a lot. When they're traveling, they don't want to waste time at drive-thrus, so they buy food and eat while driving. In Japanese cities, you stop and go, so you don't have time to eat. That's true. But in America, the highways are so straight that you can drive for a long time, so that's why it developed. Many people eat while driving. Yes. That's exactly what's written here. As industries developed and more people, like drivers or those working at night, increased, fast food became necessary. As cities developed, it became easier to eat. And brands spread across America. What's interesting is that fast food, which was born from American innovation, rationality, and capitalism, is now becoming a problem. Or conversely, there's a movement against fast food, advocating for more natural options. The complexity is written here. Yes. So, it's a beloved identity, and even Trump eats it, but there's also opposition. It feels very dynamic. There's also a division, not like the "conscious elite" you mentioned, but a deliberate choice to say, "We don't eat fast food," or "We don't eat processed food." It's quite common. It gets into difficult discussions, but there are American fast foods that aren't known in Japan, aren't there? What kind do you like? Um, well, I think it's become available in Japan recently, but it's not exactly fast food, but Panda Express. I think it's fast food. Yes. It's Chinese food that you can eat quickly. I really like it. It's in Shibuya and other places in Japan too. I really love it. You love it? Mr. Kato, not so much? No, um. Is it because it's too "high-class" again? Not at all. But when you go to a food court in an American mall, they have it. It's not in a restaurant, but it's there. Especially the fried rice. In a food court, it's kept warm for a long time, isn't it? It gets crispy. It becomes like rice that has lost all its moisture. It might be different in Japan, but that's why it's delicious. The crispy parts, and the orange chicken, which is so sweet, I don't even know if it's Chinese anymore. And beef and broccoli. Yes. Ah, that's certainly not common in Japan. Not very common. I've tried to recreate it at home. I bought meat and broccoli, but I couldn't get the same flavor. I've tried. I've tried. But this box, this box is good, isn't it? The box. Chinese takeout. Eating it straight from the takeout box, as seen in movies. The crispy rice, which I don't know what it is, with a lot of sauce, and broccoli. You're saying it with malice. Please say it. It's incredibly delicious. Yes, that's definitely true. What do you like? For fast food, I lived in the South, in Texas, so Chick-fil-A. I know it very well. Kentucky Fried Chicken is delicious, but this is many times more delicious. The chicken sandwich. KFC is delicious too. KFC is delicious, but there's Chick-fil-A, and it's very popular in the South. You can probably eat it in California too. I ate it on the West Coast. It's delicious. I ate it. It's really delicious. It's a chicken fillet sandwiched in a bun, and it's a very delicious sandwich. And it hasn't come to Japan yet, so I hope companies will bring it here. Understood. Yes. I'll introduce it. If you eat it, it's like Krispy Kreme, which is from the South. It's a donut that's available everywhere, and Krispy Kreme is very delicious. In a similar way, it's a chicken sandwich, and it's delicious. The founder is an evangelical, a Baptist. It started in 1946, so they don't open on Sundays, because it's a day of worship. In recent years, they've made statements against same-sex marriage, which caused some backlash. There are connections to religion, evangelicalism, as mentioned in my book. And in response, Burger King, which is also in Japan, said, "No, we open on Sundays." They donated to LGBTQ causes. So, there's a cultural conflict happening in American fast food. It's something you don't really see in Japan. It seems to happen. Yes. I think it's true for most companies, but the CEO or executives have their own beliefs and ideas, and they sometimes reflect them in their business. And then rivals react. The rivalry between Burger King and McDonald's is famous, but the conflicts involving religious ideas and same-sex marriage issues make it quite serious. Of course, Chick-fil-A itself is delicious, but I feel a sense of the precariousness of America in that regard. Yes. Normally, fast food is meant to be widely available to everyone, so they would suppress their personal beliefs or ideas. But it's interesting that they don't. Yes. That's probably the founder's wish, or the executives' wish, to influence fast food culture with Christianity. And that's not necessarily bad, and it probably has had some effect. But that trend is visible. Yes. Yes. Also, there's the media aspect of fast food. Kentucky Fried Chicken, for example, its culture spreads from Kentucky throughout America and then globally. And Panda Express also shapes a certain image of China. Yes. In fact, there were stories, including fake news, about Trump eating Panda Express when he went to China. It created an image. It functions as a globalizing media. Another one I like is Taco Bell. Ah, it's in Japan too. Yes. It also popularizes Mexican cuisine. It's Americanized through America, and then it becomes globalized. Fast food, rather than being purely American cuisine, feels like it's spreading through America as capitalism. Yes. Yes. It's very Americanized and more palatable. Not too spicy. Yes. Also, Coca-Cola, hamburgers, and various fast foods. I like them and drink them. Trump also has a story about pressing a button and getting a Coke. But on the other hand, there's the affordability aspect, which can lead to poverty and obesity. Recently, Kennedy, the Secretary of Health, said "Make America Healthier." There's also a controversy over Coca-Cola and corn syrup. Yes. When I went to school in America, there was no school lunch like in Japan, so some kids ate only fast food. Their parents didn't cook, so they ate fast food at home and became a bit overweight. It's linked to poverty, and to being unhealthy. Healthy people can eat more expensive vegetables or Japanese food. Yes. There's that too. There's also the change in working conditions. Women entered the workforce quite early in America. I stayed with a single mother in America. Her mother worked, so it was difficult to cook properly. And there was no school lunch. In public high schools, there was a place where you could buy things, like a cafeteria. They had small Domino's pizzas and cup noodles. Many people ate those. For lunch, they'd bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, which are quite delicious, but what about the nutrition? They are sweet. Yes. But I did rotate through those three things during my high school years. Thinking about that, Japanese school lunches and bento boxes are indeed precious. Yes. I had a friend who only ate potato chips. Yes. As a meal. Yes. Not as a snack. So, in that sense, I don't know if it's food education, but there are probably many issues related to food education and nutritional status. Also, economically, there's a company called Eli Lilly. They succeeded in developing an insulin treatment for diabetes. Since then, various treatments for obesity, which is prevalent in America, have been developed. This is also attracting attention in the stock market, with the future prospects of AI and companies developing obesity drugs. This is another facet of America, where companies come in with solutions, and investment flows in. It feels like they're jumping on it. Yes. So, after talking about fast food, up to this point, it's generally what we can imagine. Now, for topic 3, Southern cuisine steeped in history. I've brought everything here. I've brought everything. Yes. Let's have a deep dive. Yes. There are a few things, and they will probably be displayed at the end. Southern cuisine, like fried chicken, is probably familiar. But the one thing I really want to convey is crayfish dishes. Yes. Crayfish dishes. Crayfish that have come to Japan are called American crayfish, aren't they? They were originally edible crayfish brought to Japan and then spread. They are eaten a lot in the South. When I was a university student, I went to Georgia. There was a project to build houses for the poor in Georgia, as a church event, so I went to Georgia. The local church ladies welcomed us and wanted to serve us Southern cuisine. They brought a large pot and cooked crayfish, dozens, maybe hundreds, with corn and sausage. It doesn't sound that delicious, does it? It doesn't. But it's seasoned with spices, and there's no fishy smell. It tastes like mantis shrimp or small shrimp. It's a dish commonly eaten in the South. Southerners are very proud of it and tell you not to hold back. "Don't be shy." "Don't be shy." That's very Southern. Their accent is gentle, and they'd say, "Eat more, students." I remember eating it. Food is beautiful. Does it have identity and Southernness? Yes. So, for Southerners, Southern cuisine existed before the North occupied them and they were ruled by the federal government. And for Black people, it's their soul food. As I mentioned earlier, barbecue is like that, and fried chicken, which Black people eat, is also their dish. It's a dish they ate together as a community during their difficult lives as slaves. And here, I'd like to introduce a book that's available in Japanese: "From the Southern Kitchen." Have you heard of it? Yes. Written by Natsuyo Anderson. It's not just about how to make Southern dishes. She lives in Jacksonville, Florida. It describes what's sold in Southern supermarkets, the difference between peanut butter and jam, and episodes about making pork belly when it wasn't available. So, people who are going to immigrate to America might want to read this, and those who want to know what American cuisine is while in Japan should definitely read it. When you go to an American supermarket, there's a lot of deli, isn't there? They have various types of ham, and you can choose them and have them made into sandwiches. This book describes that. Yes. But this book, and this too, America has a history of hardship. Yes. When immigrants first arrived, food was difficult, so they were taught by Native Americans. And then various things happened, like Thanksgiving. Because there was no food, they improvised and made tortillas. Barbecue also involved slow-cooking meat to make it tender. Because it took time, many people gathered, and it became a community. So, when Americans talk about barbecue, they all have their own styles, "We do it this way," "Ours is the best." All this history is accumulated. Yes. That's why the most important holiday in America is Thanksgiving. They bake a turkey. How to bake a turkey, what spices to use, are all things that point to culture and history. The origin of that is related to the founding of America. That's quite true. Also, Japanese drinking culture is often criticized, but there are similar things in America. You might be invited to a barbecue by a superior at your company. My friend was. And you're observed there, just like in Japan. I remember during the presidential terms, there was a discussion about who would be more fun at a barbecue, Trump or Obama, or Bush and Clinton. They discuss the idea of having a barbecue together, choosing a leader. It's hard to say. Someone who's sulking there, or someone who says, "Let's all do it!" and starts grilling. That seems important. So, as an appeal, Trump frequently eating McDonald's sends a message of "I'm with you." And going to places like barbecues, watching baseball, eating and drinking beer, as Obama often did, that's also significant. Yes. Yes. Through food, interaction. It's the same in any country, but especially in America, barbecue is something everyone is committed to, as Mr. Kato passionately explained. Yes. In Natsu's book, this is a bonus, there's a book called "American Southern Home Cooking." The photos are beautiful, and the recipes are also... Do you cook? I used to cook a lot. I'm a bit busy lately, so I don't, but I like cooking. Yes. I've never made barbecue, or fried chicken, but I like it. Do you cook? I cook quite a bit. Do you cook American food? American food? That's a good question. What is American food? Isn't it what we're talking about today? Isn't it what we learned today? I've never made crayfish, but chili con carne, and since I lived in Mexico, I want to make Mexican food, but I can't. So, in conclusion, I've never made American food. Yes. Then, I have a tool that I've saved for today. Do you have a tool? What is it? Ah, do you know what this is? This is a tortilla press. Yes. A tortilla press. This is mine. A tortilla press. I've never seen anyone else with one. Yes. It's like this, and you put about this much dough in it. You put it on something like parchment paper, and then you place it. You press it once, and it becomes this size of tortilla. It's not like it's complicated. You just put the dough in, and press it. That's all there is to it. Then you bake it for about 2-3 minutes. And then you put in your favorite carnitas, which is slow-cooked pork. When I lived in Texas, I often went to Tex-Mex restaurants, which are Texas-Mexican cuisine. They have breakfast tortillas. And what do you put in them? Eggs. Scrambled eggs with salsa, and then you just eat it with the tortilla. This can be done in any household. As long as you have salsa, and you can warm up store-bought tortillas, put in eggs, and drizzle with salsa. It becomes like a Tex-Mex breakfast. So, it's Tex-Mex. Yes. Tex-Mex. Yes. So, I highly recommend you buy this. Buy it. Yes. It's hard to say. You need one of these in every household. Is that all? What kind of dough do you use? Dough? You make it. My favorite is made from corn flour. You can also make it from wheat flour. There are many ways to learn how to make it on YouTube, especially for Mexican cuisine. So, you can watch and learn. Yes. But Mexican food, when you're in Texas, it's everywhere, isn't it? I also lived in Mexico, so it's very familiar. Everyone eats Mexican food. Yes. And America is diverse in its food. But I don't know if it's directly connected, but they want to build a wall with Mexico, and there are immigration issues. Are these separate? It's difficult to understand. Yes. Yes. Indeed. People who have lived in America for a long time, or so-called Latinos who have become Americanized, are actually in favor of building the wall and want immigrants to be properly vetted. This is because, especially among immigrants from certain regions, there are gangs and drug problems, and they don't want to be seen in the same way. So, they might like Mexico, but they can't accept illegal immigrants. I can understand that. Yes. This is very true. The American presidential election, when you're in Japan, you wonder why it's like this. But as you said, foreigners and people of foreign origin in America support Trump. And it's not all of them, but I feel like restaurant owners and food business owners are not a small number. This is because they are rooted in their communities. Food is something that people put in their mouths, so if they don't trust the community, they won't eat from someone they suspect of being a gang member or doing something bad. So, food business owners are highly trusted in their communities. And they think, "I've worked so hard, and if illegal immigrants come, I'll be seen in a bad light too." So, there are some twisted opinions. Yes. Indeed, as for cuisine that is accepted in America, it's from various cultures, like Mexican and others. It's seen as connected to the outside. Therefore, they need to keep saying, "No, we are different. We are providing this for Americans." That might be necessary. Also, last time's program was about regions. And beer also varies by region, doesn't it? Yes. Yes. Recently, craft beer has become very popular. Do you drink beer? I've stopped drinking alcohol recently, but sometimes I like craft beer. IPA, or IPA. And in California, it's interesting that besides companies like Anheuser-Busch, which have Super Bowl commercials, there are local breweries. This is America. The idea of America as a whole and regions coexisting can be seen through beer. Yes. Regional flavors are quite enjoyable. Of course, it's not just beer. I also like whiskey. In the South, there's Tennessee, and within Tennessee, Bourbon and Tennessee whiskey are slightly different. Other regions also produce whiskey. So, enjoying the regional differences is part of it. Yes. Hamburgers also vary by region. And there's cheesesteak. Ah, Philly cheesesteak. I lived near Philadelphia. Yes. Seven-Eleven recently sold it. Oh, really? I haven't tried it yet. It's on a sub-style bun, with thinly sliced steak, and then sautéed onions or bell peppers. It's topped with cheese sauce. It's hard to say if it's Italian or American, but it's delicious. Companies, please bring this to Japan. Everyone who watches this program. Yes. There aren't many places where you can eat Philadelphia cheesesteak in Japan. So, it's influenced by America, and in a sense, Japan has lived in a dependent manner since the war, but there are surprisingly many things we don't know. Indeed. So, we can't see the deeper, deeper regions of America, even through food. Yes. Ah, that's interesting. Yes. And the landscape that emerges from that is different. And it's layered, with layers from different eras. The industrial structure of the time, fast food, or craft beer from a microbrewery, changes. Looking at culture, it's quite interesting. Also, when you go to the supermarket, there's soy meat, and in small shops, there are diverse menus, including vegetarian options. The diverse America can be seen through food. Indeed. The difference with Japan is that in Japan, there are dozens of types of miso, but there are almost no miso without soybeans. That might not be a problem, but in America, there are people with wheat allergies, so there's pasta without wheat. The consideration for diversity seems much greater in America than in Japan. Of course, in recent years in the US, there's also a trend against diversity, partly due to the media. When asked about food, instead of "Do you have any disliked foods?" they ask, "Are there any foods you consciously avoid eating?" They ask if you're intentionally not eating something, not just because you dislike it. I felt that it's become natural. Yes. In terms of consideration for diversity, it's an important point. At the same time, as you see with backlash, people in the South might feel their culture is being denied. "You conscious elites are doing that, but we like barbecue!" There's probably that kind of historical pressure. It's a difficult situation. Consideration is important, but the act of consideration itself can become pressure. Yes. Also, being thin, or being fit and healthy, is linked to wealth and the upper class. That's also difficult. The culture of "I like hamburgers, so I'll eat them until I'm full" has been suppressed, hasn't it? That's also a difficult point. Yes. It really branches out. Yes. So, while the discussion about food is exciting, let's reintroduce today's tools. You've introduced a few. What are your three, Mr. Kato? Yes. Crayfish dishes are the first. Unfortunately, they're not here. The second is Natsuyo Anderson's book. As a bonus, there's also this cookbook. And the third is my tortilla press. One tortilla press per household. One per household. Yes. It's sold on Amazon, isn't it? I think it is. Yes. Yes. Can I hold it for a moment? It's heavy. Ah, it's quite heavy. It's from Don Quijote. Be careful. Be careful. I've got it. Sorry. It doesn't seem like something you can buy casually. Yes, thank you. Yes. And for me, first, this "America, the Food Laboratory." And second, Coca-Cola. I like it. Yes. I drink it often. Yes. And there's a movie called "Super Size Me." Yes. Um, yes. It's a somewhat ironic, comedic documentary about what happens if you eat a lot of hamburgers. Yes. We didn't talk about portion sizes today, but America's portions are huge. Are they huge? Even at fast food places, the regular size is very large, and they're filled to the brim. Milk is also big. Yes. They buy milk by the gallon. Yes. The story about portion sizes is also interesting. Does the portion size have meaning? It has meaning, or perhaps it's just how it is. They eat a lot, I guess. This is a movie that's somewhat on the surface, so I highly recommend it. Yes. That concludes Backstage America. Please give us a high rating and subscribe to our channel. Also, please follow Cross-G on X. Cross-G has started a newsletter. My newsletter, MC Nakagawa's, and TBS's Hara-san are also writing. It's in the description, so please subscribe. Also, we'd love to hear about your favorite American foods. And actually, if this place has expanded to Japan. You said "please expand" earlier, but there are actually places. Yes. It might exist. Panda Express is in Japan. Panda Express is there. So, please send us that kind of information. Thank you very much, Mr. Kato. Thank you. Yes.