Finding the Next 100x Investment with Eric Jackson

I'm a full believer and I think long term I'm just as bullish as Michael Sailor. I think the price of Bitcoin will go to 50 million plus.

>> You think per coin it's going to $50 million?

>> Yes, absolutely.

>> In our lifetime?

>> Yes, of course.

>> Wow.

[Music]

>> Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. Joining me this week is Eric Jackson. He is the founder of EMJ Capital, which is a hedge fund that looks for 100 baggers. What does that mean? Stocks that can go 100x. And Eric has a pretty good track record of picking some great companies. So, this is a little bit out of my normal Bitcoin avenue because you haven't really talked about Bitcoin publicly, but Eric, it's great to have you. Thanks so much for joining me.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Well, let's get a little bit of your backstory. Uh, tell us about your investing background, how you got to start your hedge fund and how you've become so successful in picking winning companies that you've been able to turn around.

>> Well, I have um a long uh and windy career that brought me to this point. Um, but I it really goes back to my grandparents who came from Western Ukraine. Uh, and so I'm really close to all my family on both sides, but my dad's family's, you know, English, Scots, Irish, but my two grandparents on my mom's side are from Western Ukraine. And my grandfather, who's now passed, uh, came over to uh, North America in when he was 16 years old and because basically they had nothing in Western Ukraine, they were from this little village called Chernovit, Chernovitzi. Um, and basically his parents said, "If you want to be successful in life, you need to go to America." And basically, uh, we'll never see you again. And so I I have four kids, including a 16-year-old, and I can't imagine kind of just sort of saying goodbye to my, uh, 16-year-old son. But he went up to Hamburg, he got on a a steamer ship, got dropped off in Ellis Island. I found actual forms that he signed in Ellis Island checking in at 16 years old. And he didn't know anybody over here, but his his parents had some distant relatives who lived in northwestern Manitoba in Canada. And so he went to a place called Swan River, uh, Manitoba. It probably took him two weeks to get from Ellis Island to to Swan River. And u basically had to kind of look for work and make money. And so he literally rode the rails across Canada during the Great Depression uh from town to town looking for work. Uh, he had no, you know, no education, no skill set. Um, you know, did whatever he could be eventually became a welder um helped to build the Alaska Highway during the world World War II but basically get supplies up to because they were worried the Russians were going to invade um through Alaska. Anyway, uh, my my grandmother ran a b a rooming house in Toronto after the world World War II um because they couldn't afford a place to live and they got free housing um in this boarding house um and made some extra money taking care, you know, collecting sort of checks from these these retired military people that were living in this boarding house. Anyway, he u eventually like he came back home, they saved up enough money, they bought the their house in the 1950s in Toronto. Um, which was their first house and it became kind of like the the proudest um, you know, it was like it it was it was bigger than Drake's mansion to to my grandfather. He he's loved this place. It was the center of the whole family. It was a Ukrainian family so like big big family. We'd have all kinds of like celebrations there growing up as a kid. It was sort of the center of my world growing up. Wow. And uh and it was within their grasp, you know, when they were sort of this young couple starting out from coming from nothing with no background to live in kind of the biggest city in Canada um at the same time. And so, you know, the world has changed a lot. But so, he was a big influence on me and I remember he came and kind of sat me down once when I was visiting him when I was 11 years old and he gave me an Omega watch, which I didn't know what an Omega watch was. It it looked gold. It looked expensive. You know, and he said, "Eric, I want to give this to you and I want to tell you something. You have to remember in life, you always have to buy quality. Don't buy the cheap stuff. You know, cheap clothing, cheap suit, you know, it's going to fall apart. Buy spend a little bit extra and buy, you know, something that that lasts." And that always stuck with me. And, you know, I don't think he invested a dollar in his life. Like, he kept his money in the bank. You know, he paid for the family expenses. Uh, he was a simple man but um, you know, he he would have loved Bitcoin you know, because he was always telling me, you know, the government's never going to save you know, you're you have to get up every day work hard, you know, you're going to have to save yourself, you're going to have to push, you know, push yourself ahead and um just a couple months ago I was down um at the bottom of Manhattan at this party for American Bitcoin because they just had this sort of listing, you know, they had listed as a stock and so they were at Casa Chipriani, very swanky place in New York and you can if you go out on the the balcony, you can look around, you can see Ellis Island and I was like, man, you know, if my grandfather was here today and he could sort of see, you know, little he didn't have any opportunities like I've had and yet, you know, the hard work um 100 years later basically his his offspring are kind of able to accomplish all these great things in finance and business and with retail investors um like he is like, you know, had such a monumental impact on me um and my career um and which isn't over but like that's that's the kind of, you know, um, you know, what what sort of drives me and and, you know, I know we'll talk about Open Door but, you know, like just his the way that the house was so important for him and his family, like it's a major issue in our society right now.

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>> Well, so how did you build this successful investing company? I mean, you've really been able to set yourself apart and notice things in the market that are huge opportunities that go on to like you mentioned, I mean, 100x in the best scenarios. Um, but even recently, you saw that there was an opportunity with Open Door and you started now it's called like the Open Door army, right? They're probably going to be tweeting in in the thread in in this uh post. But how do you how did you become such a good investor?

>> Well, you know, there there are people out there that that um are short sellers and all they do every day when they wake up is kind of look at everything that can go wrong. Um, my just natural philosophy um in life is to kind of, you know, almost take the opposite view of of like what are all the things that could could go right, like what's the blue sky scenario in any situation with any stock. That's what gets me most excited. I don't I don't really get excited thinking about this stock or this coin could, you know, could go up 10% or 20% or something like that. Um, I I'm more excited about, hey, there's a there's an unraveling story that's that's going on here. And uh it might not happen next year or two years, but three years if this trajectory kind of keeps going, this thing could really um be huge multiples of of where it is today and hopefully 10x, 20x, and then, you know, 100x. Um, and I have found a few like that over over the years of being a hedge fund manager. Lots of ups and downs, lots of mistakes. But, you know, one of the big hits that I had a couple of years ago was I found this company Carvana Carvana that um, you know, was sort of left for dead. You know, it it had been a highf flyier, a big growth success story of like the last decade. Everybody's seen their like bubblegum car machines on the side of the highway when they drive around. Uh, and they knew that it, you know, it was a good customer experience. It was helping you bypass going to the, you know, the used car dealer on the corner to to sell your used car and have a more direct relationship. Uh, but they'd raised a lot of debt and they sort of got in trouble when interest rates rose so suddenly. Uh, so their stock went from $400 to $3.50 in December of 2022, like sort of like which was sort of the peak um pessimist kind of period after the rate hikes. And uh that crypto was down then and everything. Um, and nobody thought they would come back from the dead. Like it was sort of like if you talked with analysts or investors or finance Twitter people, they were like, "Oh yeah, like the these guys like they you you would have to be a bunch of idiots to let your stock go from $400 to $3.50." And yet um I sort of saw like an opportunity that they had to come back. And I was working away like in the first iterations of the AI models that we are using to this day to try to help identify, you know, opportunities, 100x opportunities. And one of the the first model came back and said, "Hey, Carvana, uh, something's going on here. This should be the number two long position in your portfolio." And I knew >> the AI model spit that out. >> Yes. And this was when it was like $11 a share. And I knew the company >> uh because I had traded it, you know, in the in the prior years. And um, you know, one of the things that had caught my eye, you know, in 2022 when the stock was going down was that several people on the management team had bought a lot of stock. You know, the CEO is a guy named Ernie Garcia Jr. He bought $70 million worth of his own stock that year, which is a lot. And some people criticize him because, oh, he's wealthy and his dad was wealthy, but $70 million is a lot of money. I don't care how wealthy you are to put into your own stock. And, you know, nobody does that thinking they're going to set it on fire, right? >> Um, but there was another guy who was on the on the management team who was the chief product officer, a guy named Dan Gil. And he happened to follow me on Twitter. And I noticed that in Thanksgiving of 2022, Dan had bought three half million worth of his own stock. And that's something you normally never see, like a a lower kind of a not a lower level person, but you know, it's usually just the CEO symbolically buying a little bit of stock. But Dan had bought a lot of stock. And um, you know, I I know just from my own marriage, like if I went home to my wife and and, you know, my stock was down 98%. You know, and uh probably she's worried that, you know, is this thing going to go bankrupt and what's going to happen? And I say, you know, what honey, we got to double down here or triple down and let's take another $3.5 million out of our savings and put it into this stock that has just dropped 98%. I, you know, I probably could have convinced her, but I think it, you know, it might have been touch and go there in that conversation for a while. So, that that he had had that conversation, you know, really impressed me. So, I reached out and had a phone conversation with him and I was just blown away. He was very humble. He's a Canadian guy. Um, and he said, you know, it's we we all know each other on the management team. We went to Stanford together, most of us, and we we have problems, you know, we have challenges as a company, but we really think we've got something here and we're going to be special. And that's why I put the money in. So, uh, just knowing that backstory, I I just, uh, when the AI model flagged it, I was like, okay, uh, I think this could work out. And it did end up coming all the way back and and recently got over $400 a share again. So, it went from 400 to $3.50 to 400. So, it more than 100xed. And so, um, because I had that feather in my cap, I guess, um, you know, I I I went on with my life. I was looking at other stocks and but I decided earlier this year, you know, that that was obviously a big hit and it's it's difficult to find these hundred baggers in in stocks. It's especially because most of these private companies stay private a lot longer than they used to. Um, but I I said, let's focus on that. And uh so uh we we found a couple of companies early that were, you know, I I was really excited about Iron and Cipher and that are Bitcoin miners that are transitioning to AI, you know, data center type companies and I would talk about, hey, this is the the next Carvana. And one of the things that I that I noticed immediately was that people were, you know, immediately, you know, salivating to hear about the next Carvana. And I would get these tweets from people like, I missed Carvana two years ago. I'm not going to miss it this time.

>> And and then questions would come up like, "Hey, Eric, didn't you once like Open Door?" You're like, "Whatever happened to Open Door?" You know, you I remember once you were on a podcast and you said, you know, you thought Open Door could be the, you know, a Carvana like company. And the truth was I hadn't looked at them in a long time because they had kept going down when Carvana had made this turn to go up again. And when I did uh in the summer get in, you know, s start looking at them again, you could you it didn't take a rocket scientist to realize that interest rates were going to have to fall because the e economy was slowing and that would obviously help a company like Open Door that's exposed to the housing market and mortgage rates and all that. And uh and they were going to have their first profitable quarter in in three years. Uh, which is sort of like a necessary, you know, pre precondition for any of these companies to start moving up again. People have to believe that they've sort of they're about to hit profitability again and hopefully there's growth ahead for the company. And so it all lined up and I decided, hey, I'm going to go public and this time I'm going to um make the Open Door a bigger part of my portfolio and I'm going to talk about it in advance. You know, whereas I was a little sheepish before to say, hey, I love Carvana because everybody was out there saying, ah, you know, this is what The Walking Dead and, you know, why would you touch this company? And I just figured, you know, what do I care? I mean, I've gone through my own kind of ups and downs in my career. Uh, I don't care if people laugh at me or make fun of me. Uh, I'm just sort of going to call my shot like uh like the the, you know, Babe Ruth pointing at the bleachers about to hit, you know, hit hit the home run hopefully. And um, you know, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'm going to you know, stake my my claim on this. And uh immediately like people were excited about it. And I came out with like my analysis in in a tweet storm where I said um this $80 stock I think in a few years could be worth $82. So a potential 100 bagger. And people were like 100, you know, $82. What you like it was such a crazy number to, you know, people just couldn't wrap their brains around it. This was like a $400 million market cap company and I was calling it the, you know, the the Amazon. It was going to be the Amazon of real estate and that it just it didn't compute for people and it sort of it was it was an interesting um uh, you know, you know, it showed me the importance of narrative in in these kinds of of um stories. Like we we can all be the best analysts that we want to be. We can all do our, you know, run our spreadsheets about what Bitcoin is worth now and what what it should be, >> but it's more of like how do you actually communicate that in a way that >> galvanizes people that, you know, at the end of the day >> prices of Bitcoin or prices of stocks are constructed socially and so we have to, >> you know, there has to be a re a reason for people to believe and and so that comes through story, which >> and I've even seen Bitcoiners this year because Bitcoin sort of underperformed what we would like to see even though we are up a lot actually if you look at a year ago but this year in 2025 it's been very very choppy and people have been looking for other opportunities and the idea of you know being able to 100x their money that's something that maybe a small percentage of their portfolio they want to allocate to those opportunities um specifically with Open Door I did want to learn more because there is such a housing affordability crisis it's in the headlines everywhere the administration is trying to get creative with the 50-year mortgage, portable mortgage, but can you explain what what the company actually does and what are your ideas maybe for allowing for more people to be able to have access to home ownership?

>> Well, they they were founded 10 years ago and their idea was just like Carvana disrupted um going to, you know, the used car lot on the corner to to buy and sell your your car. Um, they said, "Why do we need real estate agents?" you know, wh why this and we we pay 6% of the commission rates to these folks. What do they actually do for that? Um, just because we've always done something one way, just because we've always done mortgage and title this way and home inspections this way and uh has this long closing period attached to the the the the home purchases. Like why do we have to do it that way? And so they the original business plan was to try to um streamline the whole process so that you would uh just go to an app or go to a website for for Open Door, type in your address of the home that you were selling and they would immediately make you an offer um and if you agreed and and clicked yes, submit um within a few days or week, you know, or when they started it was probably 3 weeks. Uh, you would have money wired into your account. No tours through your house, no like leaving your house. It was just like basically selling direct to this company, Open Door. And what they found is that there was a huge uh interest in that kind of model. Not for everybody and not for all houses, but there was a certain section of of the of the market that uh agreed, you know, really loved that that idea. Uh, and so that was how the company got built. And they got really good at, you know, making uh offer, you know, obviously you have to price it properly and um uh that's a key part, but they never they never really uh moved past something called iBuying, which is that just the actual buying and selling and obviously it's a big ticket purchase for Open Door to have to buy your house from you. Their average prices of the houses that they buy are $400,000, so you uh you have to have a big balance sheet to execute this business plan and you can't be wrong and especially when the interest rates turn. And so that's what you know led to the problems in 2021 when interest rates did jack up so quickly. Um, but they also never got to the part of bundling in um mortgages and as part of the service and and and um other ancillary revenues that you can attach to the actual buying and selling of of the of the house. And um, you know, that's that's what's interesting about Carvana. Carvana doesn't make much money from buying and selling cars. They make 80% of their profits from the finance and interest attached to the buying and selling of the cars. So for Open Door, it's it's the same kind of an approach. Like uh, there's a reason why like two of the NBA teams are owned by people that run mortgage companies. Like there's a lot there's a lot of money in in putting mortgages together. So yeah, >> right now Open Door is now um in the process of sort of version two of the of their of themselves with a new management team and a new CEO who's the former uh COO of Shopify. And they're really trying to fulfill this original vision of they want to do uh three-day closes closes where, you know, basically when you click submit, you know, your money is in your account 3 days from now. Um, and before you even exit that session of where you've sold your house, they've already immediately kind of made an offer, hey, would you like a credit line to now browse these other houses that you could potentially buy at the same time that you've just sold your house a second ago? So, we're we're sort of they're they're trying to obviously we all have gotten used to living in our phones. You know, we don't want to talk to people. We don't want a big elongated sales process. If we can do things faster and faster at a fair price um with kind of speed and assurances around the price that we're going to get for our homes, that's that's a compelling value proposition. So, and it lowers the it lowers the the costs for um people, the uncertainty, you know, that people have to move in different parts of uh of to the different parts of the country. Uh, so they they're they're helping uh lower the cost of home ownership just through a much simpler and cheaper process. There are some other political uh levers though that can be pulled that will help Open Door. So things like assumable mortgages um and portable mortgages. One is like if you got a low interest rate now, if you were lucky enough to lock into like a 2% um 30-year fixed mortgage a couple of years ago, what if you could take that with you when you moved from New Jersey to California? Um, and uh so like there are some things that the government uh the government can do and I think will do to kind of help um basically break the log jam that's currently you know, it's such a different world from when my grandparents were buying that first house u in the '50s and and if you don't have a good house uh that's sort of like the the the sort of c the central part of the family and if you know so you know America gets slowed down as a as a country if it doesn't have, you know, that sort of rock solid family base which is based on, you know, people being able to afford homes. Uh, so this is, you know, this is critically important for for the country.

>> Well, that's something I've seen you talk about that um real estate sort of anchors communities and is really important when it comes to a sense of ownership stake and building um an investment within a community, a neighborhood, and giving young people an opportunity. Um, so it seems like Open Door is trying to democratize it in a way, but what what are all these real estate agents going to do? You're going to displace all of them. Where are they going to go?

>> Well, the the funny thing is that, you know, the Open army like there are probably the the profession that is uh most represented in the Open army internationally are real estate agents. And I had a I had a dinner in Costa Mesa um California a few few weeks ago with this guy who's like all he runs a recycling yard out there in California, but his wife's a real estate agent. And so he was saying, you know, you know, we're we're all in on Open Door. I said, "Really? Like isn't that a threat to you?" And he's like, "No, it's a it's a hedge, you know, because you know, if something happens to Andrea, you know, uh, you know, like we know, you know, we're going to more than make up for it from, you know, the the value that Open Door shares are going to go up." So, Open Door doesn't see the house but buys it, right? Nobody goes to see the house and you purchase it.

>> They're using AI basically to kind of um better understand your neighborhood, that house, the the the individual deficiencies with the house that might kind of, you know, the the fact that there might be a barking dog next door that drives other neighbors in the neighborhood nuts. Um, there's the AI is like involved in the home inspections. Uh, it's involved in the staging um of houses these days. Now it's it's getting to be almost a problem where people get disappointed when they actually go into the house and they they expect something from the AI stage um version of the house that they saw online to what it actually is. Um, but it's uh Open Doors was a company that had 1400 people um this summer when it was sort of like a sleep at the wheel before the new team came in. They're they're hoping to take it down something like 80 90% of the headcount down and replace all those jobs and they had something like 11 people that had to be involved in selling one house every time they did it.

>> Oh wow.

>> Now they're down to one just in just in the last month. You know, these are the changes the the new CEO has made and it's the rest is being filled in by AI. So, anytime people say, "I don't I don't see how AI is like changing the world, like I hear about all these companies spending money, you know, to, you know, uh, investing in AI, but where's the payoff?" Well, it's coming through these kinds of, uh, case studies of of Open Door and what they're planning on doing and revolutionizing the the real estate business.

>> So, if you're buying a house, you can see it, though. I'd imagine you'd want a tour, right, to be able to buy. Is this competing with Zillow in a way? Because Zillow you can't do this on. You can't like make an offer on the house. I guess you can. They connect you to a real estate agent. I don't know.

>> Yeah. Zillow started as basically a a nice place to kind of browse houses. But whenever you got excited about a house, uh, they would pass you off to an agent. Oh, yeah. And so they they made money from selling ads next to these houses or or or getting from, you know, real estate agent leads um for for the and Open Door. Uh, the interesting thing about them is they they had a million and a half Americans come to them last year to specifically ask for a quote to buy their house. Okay. So that it's a seller demand as opposed to lookie-loos, you know, and people interested in potentially buying.

>> And that seller demand is is highly monetizable. Like that's that's I think what people missed about Open Door when it was just a $400 million stock is that it's it's sort of like the difference between the power of people going to Google and typing in their intent into the search bar. You know, like Google realized, oh, we can actually start selling ads next to this. Uh, there's a whole revenue stream that we can that can flow from this. So that's uh, you know, a rocket mortgage doesn't have those uh one and a half million Americans coming to them looking for a solution to kind of selling their house. So, uh, they are in they are in a unique position and um, it's still a lot of work, but it's it's uh it has major upside and there and there were a lot of people that were Bitcoin investors, crypto investors who I noticed like they were saying, you know, we're bored of uh Bitcoin or we're bored of the Mag 7 and we're looking for kind of more interesting stories and we believe like this real estate, you know, is is a a major problem for America and this could be, you know, a great a great stock to own, but also be part of kind of uh something that reshapes how the country looks in a few years from now. So.

>> That's so interesting. Well, you can't live in your Bitcoin. I mean, for me, I have a dreamhouse. Every time I go on those apps like Zillow, the prices just depress me because it's like I don't have enough Bitcoin. Um, but do you have like a Bitcoin story? How did you get into it? Are you a holder? Do you share how much you hold in terms of your net worth?

>> Well, I I'm definitely uh um, you know, a Bitcoin bull. Uh, and uh and a holder and believe in uh Bitcoin long-term to the point where um next month I'm I'm launching um uh my own a spin out from my hedge fund EMJ Capital which is going to be a a digital treasury company, a DAT that's going to primarily hold Bitcoin, but it's unlike some of the other DATs out there. It's going to be a multi-asset treasury company. So it's going to have >> interesting >> Bitcoin, Ethereum, and some other coins which I call Carvana coins because that those would be smaller altcoins that um, you know, uh most people don't pay attention to once they get, you know, once they have their Bitcoin um holdings, core holdings, because obviously that's the granddaddy of everything in crypto and what everyone cares about. And I'm I'm a full believer and I think long term I'm just as bullish as Michael Sailor. You know, this I think I think the price of Bitcoin will go to 50 50 million plus.

>> You think the Bitcoin price like per coin?

>> You think per coin it's going to $50 million?

>> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

>> In our lifetime.

>> Yes, of course. Because I mean, this is not I mean, it it will easily um be as valuable as the current gold holdings um that we see today that are held by central banks and sovereigns um as well as retail investors around the world. And, you know, but that then, you know, I don't think it stops there. I mean, it's it's a so much more sort of a perfect version of digital gold. Uh, and I think it it has the opportunity to be to be a much more widely held form of currency. Uh, and so it's when you look at it that way that I could easily kind of imagine those kinds of like eyepopping, you know, per Bitcoin numbers. But um, the there were, you know, I was talking to Brandon Lutnik a few weeks ago from Caner Fitzgerald and he was saying, you know, a lot of people, they just don't they never look past Bitcoin. You know, it's it's sort of taken us all this time in the last 10 years just to tell the Bitcoin story and to then to explain Ethereum and to explain some of these other coins. They people sort of wave their hands and say, "Oh, it's too complex." Or I it's there's a lot of scams out there and there's no question there are scams out there in a lot of these crypto coins. But it would kind of be the equivalent of a stock investor saying, "I only invest in the MAG7 stocks. I'm just never going to look at the Russell 2000 or something." Which is fine. I mean, you can make a lot of money investing in Apple or Tesla or Nvidia, but you're never going to find a Carvana that way. And so, I think there's an opportunity for a digital asset treasury that's um, you know, focused on on on Bitcoin um and Ethereum as as sort of the two big players with with Bitcoin as sort of being the sun that everything else circles around. But, uh, there'll there'll be some smaller kind of off-the-beaten path, you know, hundred bagger opportunities um in in other coins as well. So, um, it's going to be a multi-asset strategy and it's going to use the AI models that we've we've built over the last four years to help us hedge the value of our treasury over time. So, I love Bitcoin. I have like the highest regard for like Michael Sailor with Micro Strategy. Um, but, you know, I think we would all recognize like Micro Strategy is kind of like uh, you know, sort of like Bitcoin rocket fuel. And so if Bitcoin is going to go up 60% in a year, Micro Strategy is probably going to go up 75% in that year. But when it when Bitcoin pulls back like we've seen just in the last couple of months, Micro Strategy is a more levered play on that. And so I think the opportunity for uh for a digital asset company, which which is what EMJX is going to be about, is to provide better hedging for those down periods. And so a we're using uh the AI AI models that we've built on our team over these last four years um to do that. And it's what's been surprising to me is that uh when we've built when we've downloaded, you know, all the transactions for Bitcoin in the past four years, we there's there's so much more information saved on the blockchain um that you can leverage when you're building these kinds of um, you know, AI models compared to a stock model. So things like, you know, obviously wallet level information, who's buying what, which whales are buying, which which whales are selling, which wallets um have made, you know, correct trades in the past that are worth watching, whether they're whales or not. Then there's all kinds of, you know, stable coin information. Is money flowing into Bitcoin? Is it coming out of Bitcoin? Um, that when we actually build the models, a good stock model, uh, is probably right 51, 52% of the time. In terms of making um money-making predictions for for for different trades, >> the the the the good Bitcoin models that we've built over these last few years, they have about an 83% hit rate.

>> So much higher, much higher. And so >> why is that?

>> Um, I think it's because of all this additional information that's saved on the blockchain. So that we that we're able to kind of leverage as we build the model. So the opportunity is like why do you want to just be a boy on the water rising and falling with the price of Bitcoin like when we all agree that there will be periods of volatility and drawdowns. And so um I think what what we hope anyway is like this will be a sort of a generation 2 version of a DAT treasury, just like Google was generation 2 coming after loss and excite search engines that were that came around the first time and what what people will be attracted to is that we're going to ride through those periods of volatility better um and still make money when when times go up. So >> we haven't launched yet. I can only like refer to like the backtested, you know, numbers, but in in this year for example in 2025 um the kinds of of returns that we're seeing for you in terms of the value of of our treasury that we've been uh uh testing and kind of watching every day before launching, we're up something like 50%. You know, with with our models whereas I think Bitcoin, you know, today was like basically flat on the year, maybe up 1% on the year um and uh, you know, a micro strategy is is negative on the year because it's a more kind of levered play to it. So that's I think what what people will be excited about. So um I'm all in on Bitcoin. It's definitely u you know, my grandfather would be proud to be kind of disconnected from, you know, the the central banks of the world and kind of feel like more sense of autonomy and control um from owning Bitcoin. And that's what what uh we're going to be all about. But we hopefully will bring a story that's uh a little bit differentiated compared to some of the other treasuries um out there this year.

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>> How important is the retail investor? Because I see folks like you and Mike Alfred and you've built these communities online and people are following what you're doing on like a daily basis, are you are you selling? Are you buying more? Which which ticker should I look at? And I mean, it it must feel great in a sense that people are entrusting you. They they're looking to you as a benchmark for how they're going to invest. And I'm sure that also comes with some pressure because obviously now you may feel responsible for other people's kind of savings and where they're allocating their investments.

>> Well, it's it's definitely a lot of pressure for sure. Um, and uh a little daunting sometimes when you hear people's personal stories and how much money that they might have invested in particular stocks that you've mentioned or or with Bitcoin or something like that. But I I would it's incredibly rewarding and it's been uh super eye opening for me uh Natalie this year um sort of on this journey with with Open Door especially and then and since then and the the biggest surprise is that I sort of thought that, you know, you hear the term retail investor, you think dumb money. I mean, that was the name of the movie about the whole GameStop episode from 2021. Um, that that described like the retail investors and you and you sort of if you watch business TV, you you get the sense a lot of times Wall Street will will say, you know, oh, you know, here's the latest meme stock. Oh, they're, you know, retail is shooting themselves in the foot again. They're just going to lose money. Like, why, you know, I wish they would know better. I wish they were as smart as we are, you know, and why don't they just give all their money to us and our low-cost ETFs at Vanguard or whatever and just mimics the, you know, the NASDAQ or the S&P 500 or something like that, which is obviously more money in Wall Street's pockets and not not in retail's. And um what what I noticed this year is that when I would start to talk about some of these individual stocks, sometimes they'd be like super complex, like I'm talking like post-quantum cryptography companies. I I remember uh I was at home one day and some guy came in to paint the ceiling of our kitchen because one of my daughters flooded her, you know, she let let the bathtub run or something like that the night before. So, there was, you know, all this water damage in the ceiling. And he said, you know, hey, aren't you Eric Jackson? I was like, yeah. And he's like, oh, aren't you, you know, aren't you into like I I heard you talking the other day, uh, you know, on Twitter or something about quantum computing. And I was like, oh, yeah. And he's like, oh, yeah. I've been doing a lot of research on that. And we got into this like 30-minute conversation. And I said, "Man, you you know a lot more about this sector than I do. Like, how how how do you do that?" And he said like, "Well, like I'm I'm a I'm a painter. You know, this is my job. You know, I'm I'm I'm good at it. I'm happy. I've got this, you know, I' i've got this sort of planned out for the rest of my life. But every night I go home and 3 four hours I'll just spend in front of the computer researching stocks and re researching crypto and Bitcoin because I see this as like my second job. Uh, as and I have to and and I know that if I just do the painting, it's not going to be enough, you know, to provide for my family. And if I'm really going to provide generational wealth for them, I have I have to jump the line, right? I have to move up my lot in life somehow and investing is the only way that I can do that. And I was like, man, you know, you're absolutely absolutely right. And as time would go on, like I would hear more and more of these stories, people in the middle class like really struggling, you know, struggling to buy, you know, especially younger generation struggling to buy that first home. Um, and and it was international, too. It wasn't just here in the US. Like I was over at a conference in Germany in Frankfurt in September and some guy over there who follows me um, you know, sent me a message in the morning, you're in my hometown, you know, can I can I buy you a coffee? I've made some money on Open Door, I want to thank you and I was like, sure um, but then I I got busy and I was on a panel or something so I I I didn't check my phone and then suddenly I was like walking in the hall and this guy like pops up and he's like, I just showed up, you know, I I bought.

A ticket to the conference. I figured out what conference you were at, and he and he and he started. I said, "Well, let's go have a coffee." And he was going through the same challenges of, you know, struggling, you know, to get ahead. You know, he had a new baby. Uh, he was wanting, you know, he wasn't making as much money as he wanted. He wasn't fully happy in his job. You know, he was investing on the side, but like, how does he get his name out there and all this kind of stuff?

And I, I, I remember flying home and thinking to myself, this is global, you know, this is a global issue, and uh, there's got to be some solution. And people are looking for voices like Mike Alfred or me online, and they're, they're sort of hungry for guidance, but they're also a little bit jaded at the Kardashianization of society today, where everybody who's tweeting is sort of leading you to a link to their merch store or, you know, to spend money on my course or something.

So, uh, I decided that I just wanted to use my platform just to try to educate folks. And so, I, I came up with this idea with the help of ChatGBT of of Rising Dynasty, which is basically like, we're all trying to build our own little dynasties in our families. And, um, and for some people, they'll buy a mansion, you know, like a 50,000-foot mansion, I'm sure, one day when they have their winnings. Other people have no interest in that and they just want to have a comfortable life. You know, we all have our different ambitions, but we can learn from each other. Uh, we can support each other. Um, and, you know, I, I want to just do my part, uh, in that. And so, um, that's, and, and I think people just appreciate the help and the guidance. Um, and but they're much smarter than what they're given credit for.

And I, and I think the, uh, one of the, one of the tenets of Rising Dynasty is something called slugging percentage over batting average. And so the idea is that if you find a Carvana, if you find an Open Door, if you find a Bitcoin, like, uh, that you think is going to be a $50 million coin one day, for example, um, it's not enough just to put like half a percent of your, whatever your investable income is, into that idea. You got to, you got to swing big. And so you can't be reckless. It can't be everything that you own or something. But you, you sort of realize that there are these moments in time, you know, we all wish we could go back and buy Apple stock after the iPhone got introduced, right? Or we wish that we had read the original Bitcoin, you know, white paper in 2009 and immediately gone out and figured out how to assemble our home computer system to start mining Bitcoin immediately, right? But we can't. We're here now. We've got to make the best of what we have. Like we have, we are so blessed. Like nobody before us could just like type into ChatGBT, get all the information that's available to humankind, you know, immediately sort of downloaded to us. So we just have to make the most of that now and and and just keep our eyes open for the best opportunities that are out there, uh, going forward.

And so, uh, I want people to kind of, you know, have a core holding in Bitcoin. I want them to also be thinking about other hundred-bagger, uh, types of ideas, um, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, and that, and put a meaningful amount of money behind them. You know, there's, there's this guy, Masayoshi Son, who started SoftBank, uh, and so he's had so many big failures. Like WeWork is probably the biggest one that people remember from a few years ago. But what people don't realize is his one of his biggest successes was he invested in this company, Alibaba, in 2000, right after when the dot-com bubble was about to burst. He decided, like he'd met the CEO, the founder CEO, this guy named Jack Ma, and just from like, he, the way he describes it, there was something in this guy's eyes that sold him on Alibaba and made him know that this company was going to be super successful in China, trying to create a sort of an internet behemoth over there in China. So he put, he wrote a check immediately for $20 million. Whereas at the time, an American startup check might have been like two or three million, but a Chinese like internet startup would probably be like $200,000. So it was like a much bigger check than normal. That $20 million check, by the time that Alibaba IPOed in 2014, so 14 years later, made was worth $60 billion to SoftBank and to Masa. So he bet big and he won.

And we're not all going to, you know, be able to kind of see those $60 billion paydays in, you know, 14 years from now. But the point is, like when you find that big opportunity, whether it's Bitcoin or whatever, Open Door, you have to make sure you're really putting some muscle behind it rather than worrying about like, oh, you know, I have like these 60 investments and I need to make sure I make like 5% on each one. Sometimes all you need is one really good big idea. I love so many of the points you made. Um, I actually talk about in my new book, "Bitcoin is for Everyone," the fact that we are all pushed into investing because our money doesn't hold value. So, um, you know, some people put it, you have to earn your money twice. You have to put it to work. You have to acquire assets because our money is just being drained of purchasing power. And I like that you have a very positive outlook about it because some people think, you know, this is just the world is so broken and no one has a shot. No one has an opportunity today, and it's all going to get worse with AI and economic displacement, like employment displacement. But you make it sound like, no, anyone is capable of this. You have so much information at your fingertips. We all have AI that we can type into, and you can start learning about tools like Bitcoin to empower yourself. That seems to be the message that I'm getting from you, one of empowerment, and anyone can do this.

And, and realize, like I've made so many stupid mistakes. I think sometimes people, like regular folks, like say, "Oh, like I, what do I know about the stock market? I, you know, I haven't, I'm too afraid to try." Like, you got to try, and you, and part of trying is failing. Like, you don't learn unless you fail at something. And there have been so many times where like I was like, "Oh my god, you know, like I should be more successful, you know, than what I am right now as a, as a hedge fund guy. Am I really a hedge fund guy, or am I just like cosplaying like I'm a hedge fund guy?" And like, you know, should I just throw in the towel? And you just have to realize, like, part of, you know, being successful is just realizing, like, you're put here for a reason by God. It wasn't just to kind of fail and go away and crawl into the corner and die. You're here to persevere and to fight through those like difficult moments. Make the mistakes, lose money on some stock that you thought was going to do better than what it did. And just learn from it and move forward. Press ahead and just understand other people are in the same boat as you are. And they're not any smarter. I'm not any smarter than my grandfather who got off the boat at Ellis Island, you know, who didn't, who never gone to school, basically. Um, I just was given more opportunities, and it's all, we all have great opportunities, and we just have to make the most of them.

And you're going to bat a lot, and you have a pretty good track record. Um, I'm going to ask you this, the same question I asked Mike Alfred. Uh, if someone handed you a million dollars today, you get to keep it. Yay. You win the lottery. You get to allocate it how you'd like to five investments. Give me the percentages. What investments and what are the percentage allocations?

So, I'd say, uh, 30% Bitcoin. I'd say, uh, going to be 10% other, you know, Carvana coins, you know. And then, um, I, I think the, so that leaves me 60%. So, and the rest is going to be, um, uh, it's probably 50% of these these kinds of like Open Door opportunities, where these these are these are stocks, uh, tied to different stories that are going to play out over like a five-year period, but have a chance to kind of really revolutionize some little niche or sector or area. Uh, and then probably 10% would be a little bit of safer, kind of, uh, slower growing, you know, uh, plodding like little little stocks that have good stories. They're not, they're not going to 100x, but they are solid citizens, and, uh, you know, I'm never going to be embarrassed kind of seeing them in the portfolio.

So besides Open Door, like, do you have any other specific ones that you're really targeting right now and you're eyeing and you think are good, good 100-bagger opportunities?

Yeah, so I've got about eight in like the Rising Dynasty portfolio, I call it. Um, so Iron and Cipher, we we touched on those briefly. I think those are super, uh, high potential stocks. I think long-term, everybody's like ringing their hands because Iron dropped from $75 to $40 or $48 or something. I, I think it's ultimately going to be a $900 stock. So like, you can like cry about it. I, I always hear from people and they say, "Oh, I missed it because I didn't buy it at nine." Well, if it's a $48 stock that's on the route to being a $900 stock, you, you didn't miss it. I mean, so I like Iron. I like Cipher. I like, um, Hut 8, which is also it's kind of in a similar story of playing on the AI data center, but also they have the Bitcoin mining angle because they own 65% of American Bitcoin.

Um, I also like a really like a company called Better Home and Finance, BR, which is a mortgage originator using AI to kind of, uh, try to do what Rocket Mortgage does in a much cheaper, uh, faster way, uh, through using AI instead of people to kind of push paper around and get, you know, people the lowest price, uh, mortgages that they can possibly get. Uh, and as we're sort of approaching this moment where rates are finally going to come down, they're perfectly positioned. Uh, and in the biotech space, there's a little company called SANA, which the ticker is SA, and they are building a whole new platform using stem cells to try to come up with a sort of new, uh, much more powerful and innovative way of solving different kinds of, um, difficult diseases. And the kind of the first one that they focused on was, uh, type 1 diabetes. So that's what you're born with. And I, one of my four kids has type 1 diabetes. He was diagnosed when he was 13. And so it's a huge kind of worldwide kind of market for it. There's a lot of, sort of, 100 years ago, if you got, basically you stopped being able to produce insulin in your body, it was like a death sentence. They came up with insulin. But now this company has a solution that basically one treatment and you're, it retrains your body to, uh, create insulin itself. So they've successfully shown, you know, evidence that it works in a handful of humans, but in the next year or two, they're going to have to go through the whole, you know, mix of proving it out on a wider scale basis. If they get across the finish line, I mean, they're a potential hundred billion dollar company just from that one, you know, solution to type 1 diabetes itself. So, uh, I mean, it, so it doesn't always have to be, you know, an e-commerce company or an AI company. Um, but you want to kind of look for stocks that you just think, uh, people are missing. You know, they're walking by like like a piece of, you know, uh, trash just sort of blowing on the street. People thinking like it's worthless. And yet, like within something, you know, you find a jewel of a company that could be much bigger and more successful one day. And that's what you want to put your, put your money behind.

But you have AI models that help you with this, right? Like, did you create those models, or is this something that the average person can access and like do their own homework to try to find one of these gems?

We created our own. Um, I mean, a lot of people just go to a, uh, ChatGBT and like, you know, type in, "What's a good 100-bagger stock?" I don't, you know, like they're not that, they're not that powerful yet that they can tell us like how to make perfect trades and the perfect stock. So we have a, we have a system where we're building all kinds of like machine learning models and taking different factors into account. And, you know, it could be like volume or profitability and, you know, insider buying, and we're ranking all these things on different, um, scales and then running it through some sort of pipeline to give us some insights on which, uh, companies randomly out there, whether they're trading in the US or some like, you know, Pakistan stock exchange or something, like, you know, might catch our interest. Um, and sometimes, you know, it'll just be like somebody will mention a stock at a, at a dinner conversation and I'll, I'll think like, "Oh, yeah, I haven't looked at that company in a while." And but then you'll go back and you'll run it through, you know, the system. But, uh, so the average person can't create their own, you know, statistical models necessarily yet, although, you know, things are changing all the time. But you can just start to use the tools that you do have at your fingertips. And some, and I, you know, somebody was said to me yesterday like, "Oh, how can I trust ChatGBT because sometimes they give me the wrong answer?" And that's true. But like the really smart folks are the, you know, somebody told me that all kids today should, you know, major in prompting, you know, in college, you know, like how to write a prompt and then how to realize when the answer you get back from ChatGBT is maybe it's like 65% right, but there's probably like 35% like it is hallucinating on. And then you have to ask a few follow-up questions. I always get coached by my kids like, "Oh no, Dad, you got to get angry at ChatGBT if it says something like that and tell them, no, you told me to, you know, this and that doesn't make sense." And because then it learns and all this kind of stuff. So there's, you know, the point is like, be proactive, you know, kind of use what what you can, and that's the only way you'll get, you'll get smarter and smarter about about figuring out like what's useful and what's not useful.

Yeah, I hear people using ChatGBT for creating their securities and like all of these advanced applications. And I, I think I need to improve on prompting because sometimes my ChatGBT definitely hallucinates, and I'm like, I, you cannot trust this thing. But that's so, so funny. Um, you have gone viral for doing videos outside of Drake's house. Can you, uh, share what you're doing when you make those, uh, videos and have you reached Drake? Has he talked to you?

Well, it started in the summer when I got long Open Door, and I was like, you know, tweeting about it non-stop at all hours of the day. And it was my 16-year-old son, Julian, my second born, who said that, "Dad, you know, you keep saying like Open Door is this amazing 100x opportunity, but you, you know, you haven't, how do you really like communicate that more broadly? Because there are only so many people in the world that watch Bloomberg or Fox Business or CNBC." And I said, "Oh, that's a good point, Julian. Uh, what, you got any ideas?" And he said, "Well, why don't you make a video in front of Drake's house?" And, um, I thought he meant like just a one-off kind of video. Uh, but he said, "No, like if you want it to go viral, Dad, you got to do it every day until he does something." And I was like, "Until he does something?" He's like, "Yeah, you know, like you should say, I'm going to be here every day, you know, rain or shine, weekends, too, and until he buys, you know, some Open Door stock, for example." And I thought, "Oh, okay." So, I mean, that's how it started. And, um, and so today, actually, before I came up here in the elevator, I recorded the day 88 video, which I had to do in New York City. Um, unfortunately, not in front of Drake's house. Uh, so it's been 88 days in a row. And, um, I thought that, um, you know, it was going to be about winning Drake over. And I have made good contact with the guy who's the head of security at Drake's, um, place in Toronto, this guy named Bucky.

He bought Open Door. He bought Open Door. He bought Open Door. Cuz maybe he'll be richer than Drake soon. And he bought Better, too. And, uh, he, he was like, he's a perfect guy. Like that illustrates like, you know, the people that are kind of following this whole Rising Dynasty because he's like, he liked the idea that he could make a 100x from a stock. When I explained it to him, he was like, "Really? He's like, "What, what, like, what if I put $10,000 into this thing?" And I was like, "Well, Bucky, like if it 100x, if I'm right and it 100x's, like then you would be worth a million bucks." He's like, he couldn't believe it. Like he was like blown away. Like it, the concept just hadn't entered his mind. And so he said, like, "Well, the guy that you got to talk to is Future." And I was like, "Future?" Like, "That's a guy?" And he's like, "Yeah, it's a, that's Drake's business manager. We call him, we all call him Future, and he's like been part of the crew for the last 15 years and stuff, but he would, he would want to hear more about this." So, um, I'm trying to get in touch with Future. Some people from Open Door on the board have actually been in touch with Future. There's talk about like a Super Bowl commercial and all this kind of stuff, you know, with Drake and Open Door. We'll have to see. Uh, if I gave, if I gave Drake and Future some business advice, it'd be like, get paid in stock, you know, for what you do, because this thing could 100x. So, uh, I haven't given up on on on that at all. And, you know, we'll keep, I don't know how many days I'm going to be out there. And people sometimes worry like, "What are you going to do in the winter, Eric?" And I'm like, "Well, we have coats in Canada and stuff like that." But, um, but the, uh, but I have, I have tried to broaden it more recently because you got to keep it fresh. And so we, uh, we do some videos in the Drake's neighborhood because there are a lot of celebrities that are kind of nearby. And, um, and what I found from from people who've watched the videos is like, they say like, "Eric, I started watching them because I was like, who is this like hedge fund guy like standing in front of Drake's house? Like it was so like off-the-wall, but then I, I sort of like, I just like that you're the kind of person that would do whatever it takes to kind of help this stock. And then all of a sudden I started noticing that I liked just getting these messages from you every day. And now it's like a part of my morning routine where I want to wake up and I want to see like what crazy thing like Eric, you know, says in his little video at 7:00 AM in the morning." So it's more of like, you know, emotional support. Like we, you know, sometimes there are bad weeks in the market and people are frustrated with Open Door dropped from eight bucks to six bucks or something. What does it mean? And so if I can try to help, you know, offer some assurances during those periods of time, like that's what the video messages have sort of morphed into. And so whether or not Drake buys, I hope he does because I think he'd make a lot of money. He, he does like apparently he does like to buy Bitcoin. I've heard. And sports betting.

Yeah. So I like he lost something like $750,000 on the US Open like betting that this guy S would win the tennis in the US Open. And so if I get my chance with with Future, I'll be like, "Future, just like take half of Drake's like sports betting budget and put it into 100-bagger stocks and like you, you guys will be so much better off." So, if Drake called you on your cell phone, you had a minute to talk to him, what would you say?

I would say like, "Hey, Drake, you're the most successful artist in the world." This is what people don't realize about Drake. He's had 88 top 10 Billboard hits. You know, do you know how many the Beatles had? 30. Taylor Swift has only had 33. So, he has, he's not just a great rapper. He is like this great artist. I don't know what he's worth. I don't know what he's worth, but like let's say he's worth a billion dollars or something after, I think he's been a rapper for like 15 years. But like the power of compounding and investing and like whether it's for my grandfather or it's for Drake is like if he put in, you know, for him a small amount of his money into something like Open Door and it did 100x, suddenly like in two or three years he's worth 4 billion instead of 1 billion. And so like I don't care like how many tours he goes on in Europe, how much merch he sells, how many OVO shirts he sells. Like that's the power of investing. And so, uh, part of the whole Drake thing has also been, it's not about celebrity worship. It's about showing everybody, whether they're in Germany, you know, whether they're in Alaska. But we've got like Alaskan fishermen like watching these videos, investing in stocks for the first time sometimes on these like 10-week, uh, trips out in the Bering Sea on using Starlink, trading stocks, like in stocks like Open Door because they want to take the $60,000 that they've earned in the last few months fishing, uh, to double it, triple it, or something like that. So it's like this power of compounding, you know, whether it's in Bitcoin. It's like the important thing is like we have to get more people into the pool. We have to get more people excited and to see the potential of what they can make if they just start small, but start doing it religiously.

So you'd say, "Hey, Drake, buy Open Door."

Uh, yeah. We, we, there are like amazing album covers with me like in place of Drake giving advice, like, you know, like he has one album cover where he's like got all these like cartoon like baby mamas or something, and somebody put in Eric Jackson like holding like Drake's bags of money, like protecting Drake's bags and all this kind of stuff. So yeah, Drake, I mean, it's a, it's a sure thing. And nothing would win the Kendrick war more than being able to say, "Hey, I put some of my money in Open Door and now I'm the first guy who is conclusively like bigger than anybody else in terms of my billions that I got from investing." That's that's the other thing. All these guys like, they like to be, you know, did you ever notice like one of them starts a clothing line and then every all these other artists start copying the clothing line? Kevin Durant got into venture investing cuz he played for the Golden State Warriors. All of a sudden, like every athlete had to make investments in VC funds. Where is the athlete that's going to be the first one to be this like ultra billionaire because they got behind a 100x stock or crypto or Bitcoin?

I'm waiting for Taylor Swift to be a big Bitcoiner. Maybe write a song about it. Um, it has been such a pleasure, Eric. You know what's cool, too, is a lot of people look at folks like hedge fund managers and the suits, and they're not really that relatable, or they think they're not. And you're just, you're one of us. So I love that. I know you have a huge following. People are going to be so excited to hear from you. Thanks so much for joining me. Any final thoughts?

Hey, thanks for giving me the opportunity to kind of spread the word about Drake and the power of investing and the power of Bitcoin. Um, I'm super excited. I've, I've, the Open Army is with you, Natalie, and I think they're, they're going to be, you know, big believers in, they are big believers in Bitcoin. They love kind of the message that you espouse, uh, and so good luck with the launch of your new book, too. I know that's going to do great things.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for checking out this episode of Coin Stories. Make sure you're subscribed to the show so you don't miss any new episodes. And if you can, turn on those notifications and leave us a positive review. They really help the show grow organically with new listeners. We have a free weekly newsletter. You can sign up at thenewsblock.substack.com. This show is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Nothing should constitute as official investment advice, and you should always do your own research. I'm always open to feedback and guest suggestions, so please feel free to reach out at info@talkingbitcoin.com. I'll see you next time.