Transcription
All right, there's a few more trickling in. I'm going to go ahead and get started. Uh, anyhow, so we can start the meeting on incidental contact, which is, well, every time I get on here, I say this is one of my favorites. I guess it has to be kind of a favorite for me to talk about it, but it's all contact. I said a little bit earlier, um, it's a good one because if you are ruling on contact, whether you blow your whistle or don't blow your whistle, when you don't blow your whistle, in essence, you're saying, "I'm going to consider that contact incidental because it doesn't rise to the level of a foul." Now, I know that's not how the rule is written exactly, but for the most part, that's kind of what we do. Yes, no. Yes, no. Incidental foul. Incidental foul. So, I'm going to have a couple of examples, um, many of which are going to be by the letter of what the rule book says, and some that aren't. I've got a few that I've marked up to help the process, and many that are not. So, let's go ahead and get started.
He'll play it slower, a little bit closer. Whistle was blown. I've played this video before, it made my YouTube. What do you guys think? Foul or is that incidental contact? I think it's a foul. I think he got him on the iron. Okay, I'm going to play it again, and then I'm going to roll it in.
Okay, here comes up of just a few little markings. Oh, if you zoom in, it's not the best video, right? So far, I'm, I pause it. So far, you can, through the blurred of the of the of the bodies, you can see arm and arm. Not really any contact at this point. Again, we're working on a grainy video. I'm not second-guessing what the the referee here saw. What I'm saying is, let's look at what we can see and talk about what we can see. Right now, it looks like there's nothing. Do we agree? Yeah, yeah. Nothing. Okay. Did that not look like he hit his hand while going up for the ball for the the layup? Yeah, I got nothing. He'll protect his hand. That looks like hand. Does it not? Yeah, hand to hand. Yep, yep. Again, maybe he got him on the wrist. Possible. Maybe he even got some of the arm. Possible. But from what we can see, it's on the hand. So, if the foul is on the hand, is that a foul? If the contact? No. Why not? Vitas tendedly. Hands the part of the ball. No. Okay, Shelby, that's a good comment, but, um, let's phrase it the way the rule book says, because the rules book does not say the hand is part of the ball. The rules book says if someone is, and I'm paraphrasing, if someone is going for the ball, making a play on the ball, and they hit the hand while it is touching the ball, it is to be considered what? What are we talking about? Incidental contact. To be considered incidental contact. So, if I hit the hand while my hand is touching the ball, and I hit the hand, and I'm making a legitimate attempt at the ball, if you think he's just trying to follow him, you can call a foul because they have to make a play at the ball. Then that's supposed to be considered incidental contact. Does everybody understand that? And it's not just on a layup. It could be while I'm dribbling and then they go for a, you know, a steal from behind. If they hit the hand while it's touching the ball, that's nothing. If they hit the wrist, and I know that's a small increment from wrist to hand, and we have to make that judgment, but if they hit the hand, that's a good steal because it's incidental contact. Questions? Yeah, if they hit the arm, it's a foul, or the wrist. The wrist is not part of the hand. The, I mean, you could say it's part of him, but it's the wrist, right? Correct. So, on, on this, uh, video, you're saying that that you feel that that's, uh, in an incidental contact? From what I can see on this video, on the blurry zoom in that I can make, it looks like he hit the hand while he was going up the ball. So that is a good block. It is an incidental contact on a play for the ball. Let that play on.
Okay, it does kind of go under him there. I mean, you know, we got away from him. I thought he did a pretty good job of trying to just block the shot. So, my, the point of, of this one is, let's try not to penalize the defender. The defenders, in my opinion, in the game of basketball as a whole, get penalized for everything. The dribbler gets away with everything. Not everything, but the dribbler gets away with a lot, and shooters get away with a lot. Defenders seem to always kind of, they do something legal, and we call a foul anyway. So, we just have to try and remember that the defenders can do lots of things legally. So, we have to recognize those. All right, next one.
Let me see down on the corner. Let me play it fast real quick. Wow. Foul was called, but what do you see? Was there a foul? There was definitely contact. Ball. Does it look like if he hit him, he hit him on the hand while touching the ball? Correct. I'll show it again real quick. His hand is on the ball, and if it is on the hand, even right now, that's okay, right? Because we just learned if you hit the hand in an attempt to play the ball, if the hand is touching the ball, it is incidental contact. Now, maybe he got his wrist. We can't tell from this video. The official's right on top of it. That's possible. But if he hit the hand, then that's, that's nothing. All right, everybody got that? That's pretty clear now. It's easier to watch it, slow it down, zoom it up, take a look at it. So, I understand them in a game, but if we can try to start recognizing in a game, we can get, we can get that right more often.
Now, here's another directly out of the incidental contact, uh, definition, which for those of you who don't know, incidental contact is rule 4, section 27, and there's five articles that explain what incidental contact is. The last two articles basically explain how it's considered in screens. I'm going to play this first, and then we'll discuss that.
That kid went down hard. Did you see it? Anyone have a foul on that? No. I thought it was a clean screen. The kid went down hard and got injured. How can that be a clean screen? I mean, he was, said he gave him time. I mean, he gave him more than two steps. I mean, all right, so here we go. He's setting a screen right now, and for the most part, outside the visual field of that player. Do we agree? Um, yeah. Okay. All right. Now, is, is the screen legal? Let's see. And I'm not doing this in order, um, establishing a legal screen in order from the book, but he's stationary. Yes. Okay. Basically within his own shoulder width. Yes. His stance. Yes. I think so. Pretty close. He has to give time and distance, and if you watch the play as it plays, but he gave him a little over two steps, and he's moving pretty quick. But do we have to give more than two steps on a screen? No, we do not. Maximum of two steps, and you can face any direction on a screen. He's facing toward the his opponent, so that's it. Four articles to establish a legal screening position. So, as he moves, one, two, and almost three steps, boom. Now, we agree that was a hard, hard hit and fall down. Yes. Absolutely. But the rules book says a player who is screened, um, outside the visual field of the opponent, may make inadvertent contact with the screener. Such contact to be ruled incidental, provided the screener is not displaced. If he or she has the ball. All right. It also says, I'm sorry, in article two, even though the contact may be severe, you could have incidental contact that is severe. Just because it's severe contact doesn't necessarily mean it's a foul. It could still be considered incidental, right? Because in, what is incidental, basically defined saying there's 10 players moving on the court rapidly during a game, contact is going to happen. Contact is going to happen that is not a foul, that's not illegal activity. So, how do we determine whether it is or not? On that screening play, if it's outside the visual field, and he gives him enough time and distance, even if he gets blasted like that, that is considered incidental contact. Everyone agrees that? Yes. Yeah, yeah. I was going to say, yeah, plus, plus the, uh, offensive kid that was, didn't see the screen, he made the contact. That big guy that was sitting the screen made no contact on that kid. He's just standing there. There's no contact made by the screener either. He didn't step forward, step to this. He's just standing there, right? Yeah, and you have to allow a player. I know, again, if you're setting a screen, you have to give time, a distance, but, right, they're allowed to stand there. All right.
Did you guys see that? You might not have seen it. It's going to happen. I want you to watch the two players. They're just getting ready to, um, connect. Not the two players directly from the free throw line extended, but the ones just below them, closer to the division line. Do you see who I'm talking about? Yeah. All right, watch them.
They fall to the floor. No whistling on the play. What do you think? Incidental or foul? Wow. He pushed right through to his shoulder, right into him. Any sore? It sure looked like he created contact as he was going by. He caused contact intentionally. Now, the contact in itself, in my opinion, the contact in itself, not a foul. Wasn't that bad until that contact caused the kid to fall down, right? So, you can, then it's just like, it doesn't have to be a play on the ball. You can see a play start, develop, and finish, and see how that kid is now on the ground, and he didn't fall on his own and flop. I got to call that foul, even if you come in a second late, because you see now how it ended. I think that was a foul. Does anyone else see differently? I mean, I agree. I think he put his shoulder into the game. Let's see it again.
Not horrible, but he totally did it on purpose to create the contact, which caused the kid to fall down. Yeah, absolutely. Boom. I mean, yeah, you did see right there with the, uh, with the left was, I think it's the left arm, you did see him shove on the initial contact going through. Yeah. What's the fault? Now, if you say, well, I don't know this. Well, let me go back it far enough. Hold on. We're about here. Well, he hit him. Yeah, it's not real because it looks like the lead is watching this. Looks like he is. Yeah, and he's like, okay, he hit him a little, but he's moving around him. I'm okay with that judgment. But then when you see the kid fall to the ground across the whole entire lane, unless you think that kid is flopping, and you made that contact, now call it. Now, that's a second later, second and a half later, and if you get yelled at, that's a late whistle. Yeah, you're right. It's a late whistle. I was trying to pass on it, but you knocked him over. I can't, I can't let that slide. I think it's okay to call that whistle late if you want to. Yes, no. Yes, I agree. We have a lot of latitude when it comes to incidental contact. A lot of latitude to say, yes, that contact, yes, he initiated that contact, yes, he made the contact on purpose, but it didn't affect, as the rule book says, uh, it didn't, um, hinder the opponent from participating in a normal defensive or offensive movement. If we think that they were able to do a normal movement as they would have despite that contact, we can allow it to happen. But as soon as we say, nope, now because he got knocked to the ground, if I'm not to the ground, can I make a normal offensive or defensive movement? Of course not. So that's gotta be a foul.
It's not the best video, it glitches a little, but fall or nothing. Dolphin was there contact. Foul. Hands in the back. Was there contact? Yes, it was definitely contact. Okay, there was definitely contact. Now, the question is, is that contact incidental or not? Did it hinder the opponent from making a normal offensive or defensive movement? I think it made the shot more difficult because you're getting your back kind of put, you know, bent when you're trying to lay the ball up. That makes it harder to make the layup. All right, so if you think, and, and again, on that video, and I'll go back to it in a second, on that video, we can't see exactly. There's some players in the way. We can't see if the kid put his, you know, his forearm into him, or if he was coming in and just they just bumped into each other because they were both running that way. In my opinion, if he gives him one of those, I'm calling a foul because to your point, I don't know who said that, that makes it more difficult to put that in, and he did put it in. I agree. But you gave him a shot on purpose to try him not to try and knock him off balance. However, if they're just running along and he's kind of going up to make, and then there's some bumping, I'm passing on that. I'm waiting to see, does the ball go through the basket? And if it goes through, he made a his normal offensive movement. That contact did not hinder his movement, right? So, we do have to read a little bit of intent. And by that, you can see, did he, did he give one of these, or did they just bump? Anyone agree or disagree with that statement? I, I think that's a good statement. I can't tell if he gave him a shove, so I'm going to say.
He's trying to defend. He got behind. There's a little bit of a bump. He may have. I can't wait. Maybe he's going up to try and block the shot. I think that's an easy pass and let the bucket just go through and move on. If he holds his whistle for half a second, I think he probably realizes, I could let that go. That's right. Be patient with your whistle. You see it start, develop, make sure you see it finish, and then decide. Yes, foul, or no, I can pass. That's what I think. Now, it's also possible that that game had some context. We've said this before, context plays a big role in basketball, right? The fouls are seven to one, and though we don't call fouls because they're lopsided, it does make us go, all right, the next one that might go either way, I'm gonna get that. Or maybe it's 30 to one, right, in the third quarter, and okay, we're gonna get the little ones. All that stuff comes into play. And those of you that say we shouldn't rule on time and score, come on, we all do, right? It's about game management. And when it's a two-point ball game, or a four-point ball game, or even an eight-point ball game, that can swing either way. So, we don't referee that. But when it's a 30-point game, clearly we change the way we, we call things. So, and I don't know what this game was. I don't know if they've been banging. Maybe it's a physical, and they're banging both ways, both ways, and you say, we got to get as much as we can because otherwise it's going to get out of control. Great, you're managing the game. So, all we're doing now is taking that snippet out and saying, I'm passing on that because the contact was minimal. I don't know the context. Everyone understands that, right? Yep. All right.
I put this one on Facebook. For those of you on Facebook, I got two that I put on Facebook that got a little bit of, uh, discussion. So, let's watch.
No whistle on the play. Everybody saw it, right? It happens right here where the kid's shooting. I'm gonna play it fast real quick, and then we'll play it slow.
No whistle on the play. What do we think? Is there contact? That's the first question. Is there contact? Yeah, a lot. Yes, there's definitely contact on that play. But did the contact hinder the movement of that player? Did it keep him from moving in a normal offensive movement? Not really. What does he do? Takes one step, dribbles, kind of looks around. Doesn't look like he was affected whatsoever by that contact, does it? No. That is a, that, in my opinion, a great no-call by that official. Everyone in the gym probably thought that was a foul, and why didn't you call foul? But it didn't do anything, right? Yeah, cuz he didn't go up and shoot the ball. If he was a smart player, he would have made an effort to shoot the ball, and then he probably would have got a foul. Agreed. Then that would have been contact. Well, then you could say, well, the slight contact made it harder for him to shoot that ball. I got that. He didn't turn, he looked, he passed. That's nothing. I agree. You guys are good, man. No disagreement so far.
Here's another one I put on Facebook. A lot of reaction by the defender. Okay, a lot of reaction by the defender. He ended up scoring, which is why I played it all the way to the end. But no, no whistle by any of the officials. And it's right kind of in that try area where everyone's looking. Little shove there. Another little kind of shove there. What do we think? Foul or incidental? And you can have maybe yes, a foul on one and not on the other. No. Neither of them a foul. Both of them are in foul. What do you guys think? This defender is strong. He's able to take. He wasn't really knocked off balance. The offensive player gained no advantage. He didn't really do anything. Just these are kind of plays you don't need to interrupt the game. And then that second one, he's throwing his head back. That's like a fake foul, right? I agree. Yeah, that's a reason why we need the flopping rule in high school, I think. But I totally agree, and I think that was, you, Mike, that that was saying that, uh, the defender's a strong defender, and although we shouldn't, you know, rule necessarily on what he can take, he gave a little shove. I agree. It was an intentional shove, and it even moved the defender, but the defender recovered. The offensive player didn't gain any advantage, and then he re-established himself, and then he came in, and I think he hit him a little bit on the second one. But the defender, I agree, totally flopped and faked with his head back. That's too. Again, it takes a, a good disciplined official to see those plays. Watch them again. Start, develop, finish. No. Okay, no whistle. Then move on. Start, develop, finish. Okay, no whistle and move on. That when we blow those whistles, in my opinion, you are interrupting the game. Those kids want to play through that contact. They want to play. That one kid, the defender, wants to steal. The offensive player wants a bucket. Make a drive. Let him, let him play. Anyone see anything different than that? Remember, this is a safe space. You can disagree. Well, now you tell us. I don't play many girls' videos. Let's play a girls' video. This is from a couple of years ago, but state championship game. Look at that on the fast break.
Oh man, what a terrible clip. I clipped a terrible job. Well, let's watch the, um, the slow motion here. She comes in.
And now the official called an out of bounds call. So he's ruling that contact incidental. Incidental. I'm gonna play it again. I know we don't, we don't see it fast. Very little. But here's the slow motion. I think he made a great call. He made the right call. So, where did he, who did he call the out of bounds for? He gave it to black. Why did Mike go out of bounds? I don't think she would have went out of bounds if she hadn't gotten bumped. It looked like she was stopping. Yeah, I got a foul on that. And then as soon as she got back, I think she was going. I mean, that, that's really close. I mean, I, I, I watch it. Watch it now. She's not, she knocked her down. Mike, I agree. It's really close. I do. But look, she's, for the most part, she got his other foot down. Yeah, you probably could have stopped. Maybe, maybe she wouldn't have stopped. But, you know what, that bump definitely made her go down. And white did get to the spot first, for sure. That's for sure. Yep. So, I think that is one where we say, well, it's an incidental. And, and I agree, the defender was trying to not bump her. I think she was trying to stop. It wasn't an intention, I'm shoving you out of bounds, but the reason she bumped into her caused her to go out of bounds, then I think it has to be a foul at that point. Hey, Josh, long time ago, when I was young, which was a long time ago, they used to have a foul. It was a force out. Yeah, really. There was a foul called a foresight. It was a force out. So the white would keep the ball. Yep. Wow. Long time ago. We got rid of that. It was too hard for officials to get right. Yeah, there was a backup. You know, you called it all the time. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, it was before, that's when I played, not when I was roughing, back in 1909, 10. I'm just kidding. All right, let's look at another one. I like this one.
Hey, out of bounds call. No whistle on the contact. Let me play it fast again real quick. Not the, the verticality block, right up here at the top. Anyone have anything yet before I play it slow? Oh, you have a foul. Yeah, he, he reached in, but I think since he gave it to white, well, no, he didn't. He gave it to black. I mean, I got a foul. No, black jersey. Do you see any contact there that gave anyone an advantage or disadvantage over the other, or were they both just going for a loose ball? Yeah. Now I see loose ball, right? They're both going for the ball. There's hardly any contact. There's some, but they're both throwing their bodies at the ball. That is an excellent, excellent no-call by that official. It looks bad when you see it live and you see two bodies and they kind of go together and then they fall down, and how's that not a foul? Because they both had the same advantageous play at the ball, and yes, maybe there was some contact, but that's considered then incidental. What does the rule say? It says, um, they're both in equally favorable, favorable positions, which I thought in that video, that it was textbook. Exactly. They both had the chance at it. They both had the chance about the, yeah, a little bit, and then the ball was out of bounds. Yeah, no. Yep, I agree. I agree too. Now, the old, the old Josh, the old line save a foul works too. Well, save a foul. I don't like lines like that, Tim, because, you know, guy, that's, that's, that's intel. That's, that's the line. Hey, let's just get the felonies. Let's say, oh, let's even it out. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying there's all these little phrases that when used in the right context, you're absolutely right, that's good. We can save a foul. But when someone else who doesn't understand the context, yeah, here's that, they say, oh, I'm not going to call that, I'm going to save a foul. Well, no, but that's not what you're saying, right? I mean, no, that's about what I mean. You're right. So, you have to just be careful with what you're saying, because some guys will say, well, I heard some guy told me on officials institute, save a foul if you can. If it's a foul, it's a foul. The following, right? Whether the play cost an advantage or a disadvantage, and if it didn't, or if you can't discern whether it did or didn't, then call nothing. Better to call nothing and not penalize a good play than to call something and then now you've penalized someone for not doing anything wrong. Agreed.
This is an old one. Look at this. No foul. Coach, looks like what the, okay, now he loses the ball. A little other player comes in. There's some contact. It's a last-second shot. You have a foul on white, black, or nothing. Nothing. I got incidental contact. And the reason why I say that is because, as we stated earlier, they're both green or black, whoever it is, obviously it's losing the ball right here, and white's just in it because he knows he's already lost it. So he's just over the loose ball at that point. Okay, so incidental contact here at this point, right? Yes. What about here? I want to call that. Yeah, then I would call that. Yeah. Is he not trying to grab him so he doesn't get to the ball? Yeah, he's clearly holding his arm on a last-second shot which he could possibly get and throw up. I think that's a foul on black. That's a foul. Yeah, foul on black 20 with the hold. No. Again, easier said than done when you can slow it down and freeze frame it. Looks like maybe he hits him and just causes his body to turn from the incidental contact. But when you slow it down, I think he grabbed him right there. Yeah, like literally has a hold of his arm. He's got a shirt too. Yeah, right. Yeah, the bottom of his shirt too. Now, the seconds are counting down. If you get that foul, would it have made a difference? If you didn't get it, would it have even gotten to it and thrown it up? Maybe. It is a good no-call because there's no way he would have got to the ball to put the shot up. So, just let the time run out. I was going to say that. I thought the ball was moving so fast away from that player, and the time is so close to the horn, just let it play out and and leave it alone. I thought if you can think that fast, and honestly, I don't know if I can. But if you can think that fast, like, hey, no, there's no way he's getting to that ball to get that shot up. I'm passing. And it's not like he went over to him and grabbed him from getting it. He got bumped by the defender. So there was contact, which now they're there, and then, yeah, he grabbed him after that. So I could see passing on that foul and it being okay. Would it have made a difference in the score? No, it's 26-18. So why stop the game at that point for for a foul that's marginal, right? That has no bearing on the game.
All right, let me play this one. I, I put this together today. I just wonder what you all will say. Okay, foul is a shooting foul. What do you think? Oh, charge all day. I got a shooting foul. I got a shooting foul. Shooting foul. Watch it again. This is a double foul. There's a, there's a hack on the arm, and then any charges.
Die from behind. There's the file right there. Yeah, obviously on the arm. That you got that charge right there. All right, let me break this down. So, I heard, let me see, I heard shooting foul, I heard a charge, even though it sounds like maybe they changed their opinion, and then I heard a double foul. So, first of all, is this defender legal? Yep. Yep. Right? He's got two feet. He's facing his opponent. He's definitely has a legal guarding position. He is getting ready to take that charge. But then what happens? Gotta foul first. This kid fouls him stupidly while he's in the act of shooting. Yes. Correct. What does that mean? That means the ball is still alive because he is allowed to continue his motion. Yes. Correct. Okay, what is this? The false, uh, oh, what's the right word? I'm going to. Yeah, you're, you're getting there. Um, 419.1. On the note, it says contact after the ball has become dead is incidental unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed on an airborne shooter. Wait, what is this? Airborne shooter. Airborne shooter. And is it a dead ball? No, no. The ball has not become dead yet. So, this cannot be considered incidental contact, can it? No. That is a foul. So, what do we have? Mike, I think you said it. It is a false double foul. Oh, come on. False double foul. Who has a fossil file? I agree. I kind of say go with the first one because it's easier, it's cleaner, everybody understands it. But by rule, he got fouled in the act of shooting. Totally. But he ran into that player who was standing there before he went airborne. They both should be penalized. How do we handle that then? If it's a false double foul, do we know what the ruling is for that? Two shots. If you don't, you better not call it. That's right.
False double fouls and false multiple files are penalized in the order individually. Right? So, each file carries its own weight and in the order that happens. So, what do we do? The first file happened. Was so he's gonna get two shots. Yes. Or one if it went in. I don't remember. One end. It went in. But what did he do? If it went in, we don't count it. We shoot the two free throws. He charged into that player. That is a player control foul. It's not a double foul where you count the bucket. It is a false double foul. Therefore, that is a player control foul. Still. Basket is wiped off by canceling the score, then allows the shooter what? Two shots. He gets two shots because he was fouled in the act of shooting. Do you put anyone in the lane? No. No. Why not? Yes, no. Because the other team gets the ball on the charge. Oh, because the next file is a player control file, which gives the other team the ball for a throw-in. Correct. Yeah. Point of interruption. Correct. So, you clear the lane, you let him shoot two shots, and then you give the ball to the other team for throwing. Everybody understand that? And to be honest, this is kind of news to me too. This happens kind of often, right? Foul, and then he barrels the guy over. That's penalized on both, or should be. And I think the more I think about it, that's pretty fair. Yeah. So, that happens often. In 11 years, I've never had that situation. Although I've never, because I've never called it, right? I've, I've been roughing almost 30 years, and I've never called it once. And I know specifically in my mind, I said, coach, I know he ran him over, but he got fouled here first. Now, as I'm playing it back in my mind, maybe he wasn't in the act of shooting. If he wasn't in the act of shooting, then the contact is incidental, right? But if he's in the act of shooting, the ball is still alive because he is allowed to continue his motion. Yes. Correct. So, the clerk, the player control is not incidental contact because he was fouled in the act of shooting and the ball remains live. Josh, you also, Josh, you got to hope that you don't have two refs that come in, one with a charge and one with a block. They hold their signals. Boy, that just creates even more, doesn't it? So, now you ever did that, you have a false multiple? No, a false double double foul. That's when you say, let's just go with the first one because, and actually, Bob, technically, if you've got a player control foul and a block, that then becomes a double foul. Yes. That's a double. Yeah. And the ball is dead on a double foul. And if the ball is dead on a double foul, you know, I guess it still would be, right? Because the after shooting is live. So, no, it's a, yeah, I just, I don't know. Don't have one of those. Yeah, the ball's not dead if it's out of the guy's hand too, right? It's not dead, right? It doesn't become dead until the second foul. Well, actually, until even if the second foul happens, the ball is allowed to continue, right? Yeah, it doesn't go dead unless, if it goes in through the hoop, then you gotta. Well, the player control makes it dead as soon as the player control happens. But if it's a double foul, and the ball goes in, it should. Don't you count the basket, and you give them one shot for the first foul, and then the second foul is double foul, which is point of interruption, which would then, what, what's the point of interruption? The file, the foul. No, the batmobile. The main basket is the main basket is a point of interruption. So, who gets the ball? Uh, who gets the ball after a main basket? The, the defensive team. The team who wasn't scored on. So, right, you still wouldn't put anyone in the lane because they are supposed to get the ball after the made basket, right? Oh, that's good. You go into the arrow. If it's missed, it's a double foul. We have no team control. Then we got, if it's a missed shot, we have, okay, that's a good question. So, if it's missed, where was the point of interruption? The, uh, release. Second foul on the missed. On the missed shot, right? Which means it goes to the arrow because the ball's in flight. The, uh, other scenario is if the, if the guy is dribbling the ball, and he has not, he has not, ball has not left his hand yet, and he runs into the guy, then the point of interruption is that the contact, right? Ball, and the ball goes back to the offense. If the ball is still in the offensive player's hands. Hand, yeah. Yes. Then it goes back to the offer because the point of interruption is a double thought, and he still has control of the ball. So, really, when trying to discern on a double foul, what we do with the ball, it doesn't automatically go to the arrow. You have to know what the status of the ball was, correct? Yeah. And so, if the ball is in the offensive player's hands, point of interruption is with the ball in the offensive player's hands. If the ball goes through the basket, the point of interruption goes to the team it wasn't scored upon because the ball went through the basket. If the ball is in the air on a try, and it doesn't go in, the point of interruption is on a try, it goes to the arrow. Exactly. That's it.
All right, let me play a few more, uh, incidental, and then I have an end of the quarter play I want to show you.
Two bodies on the floor here, and no whistle. What do you think?
White, his balance, but green, uh, green was able to complete the pass, so it didn't really affect green at all. Yeah. I'm gonna play, I'm gonna put in my commentary, and I'm not saying we're gonna see this live because this is a tough play, so you have to get a feel for the game and a feel for what happened, and it's, uh, I think it was, you, Mike, nothing really happened as a result of those bodies on the floor, therefore it's nothing. But let's see what actually happened.
How does green fall to the ground? He trips over white. Yeah, right there. Did white trip him, or did green simply trip over white? Thanks. Looks like white, white tripped over green. Well, right, but green tripped over white, and then white tripped over green. They got their feet tangled up, right? Not because either of them did anything illegal, in my opinion, right? They both just were moving, trying to defend, trying to play offense, and they got tangled up and they fell. Yep. So, therefore, that's nothing. They were both, they were both in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive and offensive movements. They just got their feet tangled up. Okay. Was there a call in that play? Josh? No whistle. Good. Excellent. And I think it was more because, again, the more games you work, you get a feel for the game, and I think, I think was Mike said, nothing really happened, and he passed the ball away, and they fell, and you know, it was, you know, nothing egregious. So, it's a, it's a play on. You have to sometimes just know that's nothing, and, and you could have anticipated a charge there, but green did a great job of pulling up and passing the ball without any real contact. Agreed.
And one more. I just like these so much.
Foul or no foul? What do you think?
Yeah, and let that go. Yeah, and let that one go for sure. Not much there. Nothing was there even any contact at all? Very little. Very little. If there was, it was very minimal. I agree. They both were off balance. They both went through. I think the shooter honestly went down easier trying to get the foul. That's nothing. We all agree with that, right? I want to find my end of the quarter play, and I just want to see who was on the call. About two months ago, maybe, and we had a last-second shot at the end of the game. It went in. The benches cleared. The fans came on to the floor. They called a technical foul. There was supposedly a timeout that was being asked for. Does anyone remember that? That was on the call. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, I was on it. Nobody, nobody acknowledged it until afterwards. All right, right here is a, it's not the same, but here's a similar play. Well, that kid's proud of his dunk, too. Yeah. And wait a second now. We have all the fans on the fl, are all the players on the floor. And wait a second. Where's the visiting team going now? If you can see it, that's me trying to direct traffic. You should be a policeman.
Camper looking for some good ones. And then they line up and they shoot because there was a foul. For those of you that didn't see, there was a foul. And then I'm letting this all play out because you see the official who called the foul heading to the table. Now he's at the table. What's he doing? Can we assume what he's doing right now? Yes. What's he doing? Adjusting plot. Yeah, checking the time. See if there's time left. Is he checking the time, or is he telling them that there's time left? He's telling them that there's time. Time left. He is not checking. He is not saying, hey, what do you guys think? No, he's making a decision. He is going there and saying, we're putting one second on the clock. Now, does he have definite knowledge? We're gonna say he does. Yes. But I will tell you, there's no sound on this play. I'm gonna play it again as I speak. But if you see when the foul is, I'm gonna pause it. Beep. How much time? Two, two seconds. Okay. And then watch it. And now, from the foul, from the whistle of the foul to the buzzer of the horn, do you think the officials know that there's time on the clock? No. No. I think they do. And I'll tell you what, I'm the center, and I, I don't know what's going on because I didn't call the foul. And I said to myself, that that was an awfully long time before the horn went off. Now, I don't have definite knowledge. I'm not coming over to give any information because I don't know. But I know that there's got to be time left on the clock because that was a really long time after the whistle. Okay. Now, because I know that there should be time on the clock, does that give me the right to go over and say, we got to put time back up on the clock? No. No. Because I have no idea. No. Well, the only re, the only way you would know, Josh, is you heard the whistle blow, and you looked up at the clock, because you, you have rocks, you have last, you have last second responsibility. So, almost always, the official, well, not always, but the official calls the foul, probably knowing that it's the end of the quarter, probably gonna look up at the clock to see, I blew my whistle, and I'm gonna make sure that that clock doesn't run all the way down. And that's what we should be doing, at least, right? Doesn't mean we're always going to do it, but the one who calls the foul knows, and they look up, and they get a shot. So, I'm assuming that's what he did. He saw one second. Took him that long to look up there. One second on the clock. But let's remember the last time the fans came out, the players came out, they end up giving a technical foul. Should we have given a technical foul on this? If you want to. No, because everybody thinks, no. If you want a big hassle.
I mean, the reason why I would say no, good with this, because it's kind of like the last video. It's like they, the players really didn't even know. It looks like they were basically saying it's over. They didn't even know there was a foul call to the last minute. Yeah, cause the horn went off. So they thought it was over. You're, the horn went off. Everyone thought the quarter was over. Look at the, look at the, uh, visiting bench. Even the coaches kind of like, what's going on? Right, right. You can see the offensive coach, the home team bench coach saying, come on back, guys. Come on back. Because he's now realizing, and of course, me, I'm directing traffic. But now watch what I say to the coach here. Look, he's like, did you see that? I'm gonna just play it again real quick. I just want you to see the acknowledgement. I'm like, yeah, yeah, no problem. The coach says, I didn't hear the whistle. Yeah, I know you didn't hear the whistle. I'm not gonna pick you up because everybody in the gym thought that the game was over, right? So, you bring the players back. Yeah, it's kind of a mess. You got to bring them all back, and you bring them over, and you line them up, and you get the time back on the clock. But nobody was doing it maliciously. Yes. By rule, the players cannot leave the bench area, right? By rule, that's a technical foul for both teams. But nobody knew. They were just kind of, yeah, game's over, let's go to the locker room. The game's over. Half it was halftime. Half's over, we'll go to the locker room. So, just bring them out, put them back, line them up, and you're good to go. The calling official really didn't, didn't convey with any kind of conviction that there was any time left. So, there's no way, how could anybody even know that it was a little. And it was, it was loud in that gym, and there's whistles under masks, and lots of things come into play with, you know, yeah, he wasn't very, he, he went up, it was clearly he had a foul, but the buzzer went off, nobody heard the whistle, he kind of walked over nonchalantly, right? So, a lot of things could have been done to help avoid that, but the point is, it happened. How do we handle it now that it happened? Right? You guys agree that we should have just brought him back, or does someone think we should have sent some technical fouls? No, no, no. There was nothing malicious there. Common sense, right? Right. Yep. Game management. That's all I got, guys. March 17th is our next meeting. That's St. Patty's Day. It is. I just saw it today. It's St. Patrick's Day. So, for those of you that hit the bars heavy, you can come over and be a little inebriated if you need to. I will still be here. If you all don't want to come because it's a national holiday, I understand. But it's a national holiday for me. Josh, we're talking about guarding, and so that's going to be not so much black charge, which is my favorite, so I'll probably throw a few of them in there, but legal guarding position. Was the guard legal when the contact happened? Were they moving obliquely? Were they moving laterally? Was the dribbler allowed to go into a less than three-foot area? Those types of plays. So, hopefully, you all can make it next, uh, month, but I thank you for coming tonight, and, uh, as always, hope it was helpful, at least enjoyable. Good job. Good job. Very good. Very good. Josh. Sure. Thank you. Good luck in both season, guys. For those that got post-season, good luck. And may you not, may you never have a false double foul.
All right, guys, take care. All right, Josh, thank you. You. You.