Transcription
Are you ready to have this debate, or are you going to try to drag your whole Discord in here?
We can go at any time. It doesn't matter to me.
All right. Go ahead, Andrew.
Yeah, go ahead.
All right, great. Uh, Andrew, just name the trait.
Name? Well, I'm sorry. You said that I was going to embarrass Orthodox people by having a debate on "name the trait."
Oh my gosh. So, are you hang— are you going to tell me what the argument from the Orthodox perspective is supposed to be on "name the trait"?
"Name the no," since not Orthodox, that's why you would embarrass yourself. Now, "name the trait," I said I would assume his position. Were you not tracking?
I was not. I wasn't.
Look, look, look. I'm not interested in any of this offuscating or proaricating or posturing. "Name the trait."
Uh, "name the trait" for what? For the, the vegan things? The trait that if it were to true humans that is currently true of animals, would make it morally permissible to factory farm and eat them for food. Name the trait.
Yeah. Is that a knowledge claim that you're asking?
Do you know? Oh, my. You're so— I can't say that. Yeah. It has nothing to do with epistemology. "Name the trait."
It, it— Well, it doesn't have anything to do with epistemology. Are you making a knowledge claim?
No, you're not. You're not making— Well, you're asking me a question.
I'm asking you. So, I could be agnostic on vegan ethics and still ask you to name the trait. "Name the trait."
I see. So, so, are you— you're asking me a question, a knowledge-based question, right?
Yeah, I'm asking you to name the trait.
Okay. So, I, real quick, just so we can cover a few things. Uh, let's first, let's start with, uh, knowledge claims themselves. Is that okay? Can we do that? Take a look a couple. This is, this is, this is what we— Oh my goodness. Never say meta-ethics again, and you have no idea what that means.
What we can do is have you name the trait.
Yeah. But the thing is, is I think we have to take a look at a few things to justify whether or not you can even ask me this question.
Why are you dodging? Why on earth are you doing— you're doing the J-Der thing, right? Like this stupid, dumb EO J Dyer thing, and you're dodging the question. So maybe if I autistically repeat it.
Okay, if you want me— if you want me to only— Okay, here's my position then. If you're asking me this question, is the question that you're trying to ask me directly? I was trying to throw you a bone here, but is the question you're asking me directly just this? Is there a trait which animals have that human beings don't have that justifies you in eating them?
Wow.
Is that the question you're asking me?
That's the question. Yeah, that's the question.
The response to this question is, I'm sure there is. However, there are so many traits which exist that I could not possibly name it unless you can name all of the traits that human beings have so that I can pick one.
Can you?
What in the flying— Repeat what you just said. Please repeat it. I want everyone to hear what you just said.
Do you agree with me that there's a somewhere around, I don't know, an infinite amount of—
Repeat, repeat exactly what you just said. The— came out of your mouth. Nothing, nothing dumb about what I just said. Is it the case?
Hey, look, I grant that you don't think there's anything dumb about it, but I know what you just said is—
Okay. Well, then what did I just say?
Yeah, what you just said is this.
I believe there is a trait, right?
But I could never know what it is because there's so many. And you would have to name every single one of the traits for me to know which one it is.
Well, do you agree? Well, do you agree with me that because you just asked me—
If I call you stupid, why would I do— agree with— I don't understand why you're freaking out. Do you agree with me that there's so many traits?
Stupidity annoys me. That's why I'm freaking out.
Do you, do you, do you— Okay. Can you answer a question for me?
Do you, do you, do you— Are you going to answer my question? I did. I answered. I did not. I'm sorry. Did I answer your question?
I asked you to name the trait, right? I asked you to name the trait and I answered the question.
What you did was you said this. You said there are so many traits. I can't actually name the trait until you tell me all the traits. Which means the answer to the question is no. Right. What you said is contradictory. I can't give you the trait. I also can't give you the trait.
Really generates. Dude, you're really—
People think that that proposition generates a—
You're really freaking out.
"Name the trait" and also can't name the— Yeah. I, I told you, stupidity freaks me out, right? Oh, man. People say stupid things.
I, I agree. So, can you name the trait?
Yeah. So, I, I think I could, but you'd have to give me a list of every trait that a human—
I didn't ask. See, so this is a little bit of a tracking error on your part. I didn't ask you if you think you can name the trait. I asked you if you can name the trait.
I can name, I can name the trait if you give me a list of all human beings' traits.
Do you want to retract that claim?
No, I don't. No.
Okay. So, wait. You can name the trait if I give you— So, it's conditional. You can name the trait if and only if I list out every single trait which exists.
Yes.
Oh, that's—
Why?
Yeah, that's just a dodge. Do you want— Can you answer my question? What's wrong with what's wrong with that? Can you tell me what's wrong with that?
What's wrong with— So, when I say— Wait, I can't say that. It's— It's YouTube. Yeah. So, when I say "it's R-worded," that means it's dumb. So, the issue with what you said is really stupid. Yeah. That's not— Listen, that's not telling me what's wrong with it, except I just want— Wait. Do you want it?
Yeah. Give it to me in a syllogism.
If it's the case that what you say is—
Then I shouldn't answer it.
And then you can just— But that's not telling me anything.
It, it's not telling—
Okay. "Name the trait." "Name the trait."
What you said is recorded.
"Name the trait." Oh, there we go. That gave you a bunch of—
Yeah. So, can you, can you, can you answer— Can you answer what's the problem with that answer?
Are you like—
Can you answer my— What's the problem with that answer? What's the problem with that?
Oh, the problem is—
What are you talking—
What's the problem with the answer, dude? What's the problem?
Yeah. So, like, look, look. Maybe I could put it, maybe I could put it in a way that you understand. If I ask you what day it is today and you say "come me in the ass."
Mhm.
Right. I'm going to say the answer that you gave to my question is—
No. But if you ask me what day is it today and I ask you to give me a list of—
You agree— Wait, I just want to be— I want to be clear. If I ask you what day it is today and you respond "come me in the ass," you agree that's a response?
I would, I would agree that that would be a nonsequitur or they wouldn't be moving into what you're trying to— Dude, you have to, you have to stop spurting out and we can have a productive conversation.
Look, look, look. I just want you—
How is it that— How is it that you think you're making orthodoxy look good here?
I never said I'm making orthodoxy look good. But I thought your entire objective, the entire objection to me was that I make—
My entire objection to you is that you would lose to Synth in a debate on NT because you're—
Well, I got to tell you, if you ask me a question, you'd realize—
I got to tell you, you're looking really—
Is there— I'm sorry, is there a wrong answer to NT?
Yeah, any answer that leads to a reductio or a contradiction.
I give you— Did I give you an answer that led to a reductio?
No, no, you didn't give me an answer.
No, I gave you an— No, no, no. You didn't give me an answer.
I gave you an answer. Yes, I did.
No, no, no. You, no, no, you didn't. See, what you did was you gave a conditional. You said, "I will give you an answer if you do X." Which means you didn't give me—
No, I didn't actually say that. What I said was— I did.
Wait, you didn't say that. So, you didn't say that. What I said was— Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. So, you didn't say—
You have to let— Listen, if I named every trait that was in existence—
If you don't let the— If you don't let the other person speak, we can't even have a discussion. So, you tell me when you're done. You let me know when you're done speaking and then I'll speak. Go ahead.
Yeah, when I mute my mic, that means I'm done speaking.
So, anyway, whenever, whenever, whenever you let me know, just give me the high sign.
Well, when I muted my mic after I said, when I mute my mic, I'm done speaking. A normal person would take that as a cue to talk.
Yeah. So, I mean, are you— are you done? Do you want to let me talk?
Did you just say yes or not when I mute my mic? Can you, can you not see that?
Uh, well, no, I actually can't see that. Yeah, I'm going to mute it now.
Okay, thanks. That's, that's all I was asking for. So, actually, that's not what I said. I didn't actually say the only way that I could name a trait is through this. What I said was this, specifically. You asked a question, "Can you name a trait?" right? That's a— you asking a question. I answered your question. I do believe I could name a trait. I just think you would have to list every single trait a human being has, uh, for me to do so. That's not— not only is that not evading the question, but there's nothing there that leads to a reductio. And your only response is "that's," which is not— that's not false. What are you saying there?
Just to clear up some of the— I never said that. You said you could only answer the question if I gave you every single trait. What I said is that you said you would answer the question if I named every single trait.
Yeah.
That is what you said.
And I said your response is—
Why?
Because it's not an answer.
Yeah, it is an answer.
No, no, no. It's not an answer. In the same way as you, in the same way if I were to ask you what day is it today and you responded "come me in the ass." That's a response. Those things wouldn't be—
But it's not actually an answer to my question.
Those things wouldn't be—
But then I would just respond by saying that's—
And then if you were to ask me, well, what's the problem with it? I would respond again with that's—
Okay. So, let me respond to this. So, if it is the case that you, that somebody asked you what day of the week it is and you said something about "in the ass," that wouldn't be relating to the actual question that they asked you. I am actually answering the question you asked me directly. I even, I even asked you to make sure I had it clear.
The only thing that I told you is that—
The only— Dude, dude, let me, let me talk for five seconds before you cut in. I've been, I've been super, super good faith with you. I don't know why you're spurting out so badly. I just need you, I need you to relax. Look. Look. Walk me through it.
I don't want to have to walk through—
I need you to walk me through it real fast.
If someone asks me— Yeah, I will. I will. I'll do it real slow. I know you like a real slow answer. I got you.
If someone asks me the question,
Yeah.
"What day is it today?" and then I say, "I mean, look, you're just going to have to tell me every single day of every single month of human history before I can answer your question."
So, if somebody said that they need—
Stop, stop. Go ahead.
Stop. Stop.
Mhm.
That means they're providing a conditional, right? They're saying, "I will answer your question if and only if—"
Yeah.
"—you meet condition X."
Stop. Stop.
Yeah. That's not what they're saying. You stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.
Look, dude. They didn't answer the question. They conditional in which they would— they gave conditions under which they would answer the question.
And the principle I set forth—
With the other— Yeah. And the principle I set forth with the analogy is that—
If instead of answering my question, you just say something stupid,
I'm going to call it—
Okay.
And instead of answering my question, Yeah.
you just said something stupid,
So I called it—
Okay.
Do you understand now?
Yeah. So, can I respond now?
Yeah, you have permission. Go.
Yeah. So, if it was the case that somebody said to you, uh, "Hey, what day of the week is it?" The other person said, "You know, I can't answer that without more information," and then told you what the requisite information was that they would need so that they could give you a concise answer. That is actually answering your question. Can you refute that in any way or tell me how that's wrong?
Yeah. I just, I just— This is so stupid.
I— But you still haven't actually contended with what I'm saying.
No, no, no. You're just— You're so stupid.
Yeah. I mean, you just keep saying that, but I'm waiting, waiting for you to actually give me something.
Relax, relax, relax.
I'm relaxed.
Yes. So, in order for me to answer your question, you need to meet these conditions.
And then you said, "That's an answer to your question." You understand how the— Yeah. You understand how affirming those two—
How long have you been diddling? How long have you been diddling kids?
How long have you been diddling kids? Answer the question. Answer the question.
I just want to be clear.
Uhhuh.
You understand how affirming both those propositions is contradictory?
Neither. Neither are propositions.
Idiot. Neither are propositions. It's a— One's an answer. I just want to be. I just want to be.
Yeah, that's that's correct. Those aren't— Asking me a question is not a proposition. You stupid monkey. Monkey.
I'm sorry. Is a question a proposition?
Yes. Oh.