The Self-Made Billionaire Playbook: No Trust Fund. No Connections. Just Guts.

You are on the Forbes billionaire list with a Forbes self-made score of 10 out of 10. So I do think that that I am self-made, but I don't sort of begrudge the circumstance. I think early adversity is probably a huge advantage.

You went to Harvard for undergrad. Is it responsible for success or just a nice flex? Yeah, this one's going to be a little controversial.

Mark Cuban, business genius or overrated TV billionaire? Oh man. Okay, look, let's talk about the facts.

If you were starting from zero today, what is the first real move that you'd make to build wealth? The truth is that when you don't have anything, can you find maneuvers and tactics for yourself that aren't about capital? Everybody has fear. We all have fear about something. And so, what do you do with it?

When are we talking about love? I think Fernando wants to set us up. Really? I mean, I will try. Yeah, I will I will I will I will work really really hard. Let me ask you guys a question about love. How do very driven, highly intelligent women does it does it make it difficult to date?

You know what? Going back to your earlier point. [Music] This is the Tiger Sisters podcast where we talk about money, power, and love. We are number 11 top business podcast on Spotify. Today we talk about the truth about building wealth from nothing. They say generational wealth is the key to success, that you need a trust fund or a last name that people recognize. But what if you could build a billion dollar empire in one lifetime? Today's guest didn't grow up with wealth. He didn't have the elite connections. By the end of this episode, you won't just know Fernando's wild story. From crossing borders to building a multi-billion dollar empire, you'll walk away with his top three rules for building and keeping generational wealth.

I'm Sheree. I'm Jean. And I'm Fernando. And we're the Tiger Sisters. And I'm the Tiger brother.

Hey friends, it's Sheree and Jean from Tiger Sisters. We need your help. We just dropped our very first audience survey and it's actually really important to us. Why? Because we want to create the best content for you and learning more about you helps us to do that. It takes less than 5 minutes to fill out and as a thank you, we're giving away a $100 gift card at the end of the season to one listener who fills out the survey. The link is in the video description. Please fill it out. Thank you for being a part of this with us. Tiger Sisters is just getting started.

Fernando, some intense questions. Intense questions. You are on the Forbes billionaire list with a Forbes self-made score of 10 out of 10, which we looked up in Forbes. We actually looked at the like footnotes and that means you grew up poor and overcame significant obstacles to build your fortune completely on your own. There are very very few people who have this score of 10 out of 10. Two of them are Oprah, George Soros, and Fernando. All right. Forbes reports that you have a net worth of 2.8 8 billion. Are we going one of these? Um, let's talk about love. Let's talk about love. Now, he wants to talk about So, can you please introduce yourself to the audience in your own words?

Well, I did grow up um in pretty complex um circumstances. I grew up along the South Texas northern Mexico border. So, I do think that that I am self-made, but um but I don't sort of begrudge the circumstances. I think they were, you know, sort of a a real advantage, and I I think early adversity is probably a huge advantage.

I love that. Could you talk a little bit more about this view? It sounds like it's a view that's turned into a value that's really guided you to make the decisions that you've made in your personal life and your business. Overall the my view is that we live in a country where there are no constraints to what you can achieve. It's a simple idea. Most of the constraints that people put on themselves are self-made. This country has a massive economy, a $30 trillion GDP economy. And so there are places, pockets everywhere where wealth can be created. And so if you want to do that and that's a you know a value or something that you are interested in um there are an infinite almost infinite number of places to uh to generate wealth um but you have to have the stomach for it. You have to believe in in your ability to do that and then you also have to have uh the ability to provide value for others. So if you do something um kind of the way uh you two do this um you're disseminating information uh to young men and women um about pursuing business, a career um all of these things, they're massively important to people's understanding of uh of how to pursue their goals. And so if you provide that value, you get rewarded. Um if what you do doesn't provide value to others in society, then you don't you don't get rewarded. It's sort of a very very fair system um in my opinion. Um and I think that that underpins my pursuit of business creation is that if we can build businesses with people with stamina that have the ability to deal with adversity and that we can provide a value to to society, then we'll be rewarded for it. And we've done that, you know, a few times.

Fernando for for senator for president. No, no, no, no. The opposite. We need we uh No. what what we need to do is create continue doing what we're doing and the uh the the political thing um is way too complicated. That's one thing that people business people have not been able to solve is how to deal with with the political um chaos of uh of the last few years.

Fair Sharie for president. Yeah, Sharie for president or at least or at least a governor. Yeah. Why stop there?

Um, Fernando, I I'd love to go back to the beginning, some of your your early stories. Can you talk a little bit more about your earliest money memory? Money and wealth was never um sort of important for material things. It was important because it provided safety to my family. And so I I had a um you know early days uh my my father passed away when I was uh about 12 years old. And so the family um I was the only American citizen in in the family. I could speak English. I had these advantages. I had these things, these tools that my the rest of my family didn't have.

Cuz you were the youngest of six. Cuz I was the youngest of six. And and then the the the others were, you know, 10 to 16 years older than I was. And so I had this sort of golden ticket that was given to me, right, to be an American citizen. and and so I could take um the skills that I had and the ability to be in the United States and create um you know income and and that was important and so I had to kind of maximize that. So you know when I was about 14 years old I I was a translator. So there were American uh real estate developers that wanted to build manufacturing plants in in Mexico and they needed um you know help in translation services in navigating the environment and I was a kid but I but I could help them with that. In one instance the very first time that I made money I just got paid you know fees for translation services and it was you know a few hundred bucks but then I kind of realized that what I was doing was more than translation. I was actually giving developers the ability to execute their business plan. And so I thought about it and I said, "Well, I really ought to get more." Um I I did I mean I may maybe it was selfish or maybe it was just I was trying to take care of my family.

You were like, "My value is higher than this hourly fee." Yeah. My my value is higher and and and and there was a very big moment actually. my grandmother um who was an extraordinarily tough and resilient woman. She had she had widowed with seven children at the age of 29. Wow. And she was a tough lady in that part of the world. Um for her to run a a farm, a ranch um you as a woman with, you know, seven children, you had to be extremely tough. Um and she she was she she was very well known as a as a resilient and tough lady. um who happened my grandmother um happened to be friends with a union leader in in in in our town and uh the developer um that was building a a facility a manufacturing plant. He needed uh permits like job permits and you had to get those job permits from a from a from the union. And so I asked my grandma, I said, "Grandma, you you're friends with the with this union leader, right?" And she she said, "Oh, yeah. that that uh that man has been in love with me since I was 15 years old. And um and so I I said, "Well, can you set up an appointment for me?" She said, "Of course." So I showed up uh at this uh union leader um uh office and it was like out of a Godfather movie. I mean, dark room. He was fidgeting with a gun. I mean, it was it was it was and I was, you know, 14 or 15 years old. And um our favorite quote, we was you come to me and stay with my daughter. Pretty much. We love that quote. We say it all the time. Exactly. Um and so so I uh I I walk in. I I I he asked me um my grandmother's name is Aaro. And he says, "You're a grandson, right?" And I said, "Yes." Um he says, "Uh she called me. I know what you want. I know what you need. Um and I'll give it to you." Um and I said, "Oh, well, thank you." And and he said, "Yeah, I'll do it because I've been in love with your grandmother since she was since I was 15." And so he says that and um and so you know he writes down in a little napkin um that this should be approved and then I go to another guy and then that person was the the his underling and facilitator and so we had an approval for jobs permits and I went to the developer and I said hey um you know you've been working on getting these job permits for about a year um what would you pay to have access to these job permits? Um and he said, "Well, um you know, if if we could partner with this person with with them or or you know, pay X amount um we would do it to get the building permits." And I said, "Well, you know, I actually have the permits in my possession and I I um I'll take that offer. I'll take 5% equity in in the building." And uh and he you know, he he agreed. We signed it and we did that, you know, five four or five more times. and and that was the first time I ever owned anything. I was about 15 years old and and these buildings were not, you know, they were pretty substantial facilities. Um, they had leverage, they had financing and everything. So, uh, but I learned it and then I worked for that person for the next four or five years and I was a project manager and I was running, uh, real estate development deals from his office and so I was running them, you know, effectively myself as the coordinator and orchestra conductor of of engineers and architects and construction companies. And that's where I learned the craft as a as a kid. But I was making good money and that was important. Uh but it was important because I could uh support my mom and and the family. And that was sort of the the seinal moment that you know that made me want to generate um wealth as a as a protective measure, not so much for you know buying things or whatever. It was really a a sort of a a protective uh protecting the family. Uh that was my 100% of my goal was to protect the family and Leon Capital was born.

Yeah. Technically on a napkin. Well, technically, you know, Leon Cab wasn't uh signed uh into existence until like 200 2004. Yeah, 2004. Um germination. Yeah, you're right. The the ideological germination was was uh was there because you're right. What happened was I later when I was working at Goldman Sachs, you know, I I said, you know, I want to go back to Texas and do what I was doing before. Like I was good at that. I got to get back. And so, yes, you're right that that it was always pulling me to come back to Texas um after being on uh at Goldman. And I, you know, the uh the idea was had been built or was inside of me and I just needed to get back to it. So, you're right that that that was the origin of who I was. I mean, and that's something you you've talked about before. You said company ownership is the most hidden secret in American capitalism. What I mean by that is that I think, you know, you can own a lot of things. You can own ideas, you can own um you can own your time, but the concept of an asset, you're never too young to own an asset, right? And so, you have a I have a a nephew um who I told recently. He said, "Uncle Fernando, like what do I how do I start to create wealth?" And I said, "Hey, you know, you're renting an apartment. Go find a way to buy a town home, a duplex, and lease the second half of it, and use that to pay off the mortgage for for the two sides and start with that. Own an asset, you know, get financing, um figure out how to own an asset." And so I do think that um asset ownership, you know, that that asset, he will pay it off over, you know, a 15-year uh loan amortization and he'll own an asset 15 years from now. But he's 21 and so he'll be 36 and he'll own an asset and he'll say, "Wow, like I I I I built something. I owned something and it was painful. Maybe maybe he's got to live, you know, within his means and save more. Maybe he can't go to the restaurants and make sacrifices. But when he's older, he'll he'll be great. he'll be glad that he paid off uh an asset. And so I think asset ownership, company ownership um is is the way that you build um wealth. And I I don't I I think it's a simple statement, but it's hard to do. And and you just got to find the openings to figure out how how to get it for yourself. Um nobody's gonna, you know, I can't give you like the the story of what it's going to be for for anybody except for me, right? But for others, they got to find their own um entry point and and uh and get figure out a way to get a piece, buy a stock, buy a bond, buy a house, buy a duplex, buy something, and then over time make it grow.

So early on in your career, you invested in Chick-fil-A when the big guys thought We've done our research. Yeah, we've done our research. Um didn't think about that one for a while, did you? No. um when the big guys thought it was beneath them. What did you understand that other people didn't see? And what's an industry you're investing in now that others still overlook or possibly underestimate?

Oh, interesting. Okay. So, first of all, the Chick-fil-A trade was not in the company itself. It's that's a private company. It's owned by a family. They they as much as any of us would want to invest in Chick-fil-A, you can't. Uh it's owned multi-generational trust, so that's not going anywhere. But what I did was I said, I think this concept um is massive and people love it and they have this connection to it. Um you know a large percentage of people surveyed they go to Chick-fil-A when you ask them if it's fast food will tell you it's not. So it tells you you know the service everything was built with intentionality and I wanted to participate in in that business plan but I couldn't. So the way I couldn't invest in the company directly. So what I decided to do was I had a piece of land. The very first buil uh uh building that I built for Chick-fil-A. I owned a piece of land in San Angelo, Texas. Small little town. I had bought some some land from a bank that had default uh borrower had defaulted on a piece of land. And I owned these sites all over the state of Texas. And um and Chick-fil-A really wanted that site. And I said, "Well, I will um I'll build it for you." and said, "No." And we, you know, we traded hard for a while and they finally um agreed and we built a building that they leased. Mhm. And my philosophy of that was to say, well, if I can't invest in the company, but let's say that Chick-fil-A was selling $2 million of of of product of chicken there, and I was renting the building for $200,000 to them per year, that means that for every um for every 10 pieces of chicken that they sold, one of them was being sold on my behalf cuz I owned $200,000 of rent as a royalty on a $2 million sales figure. So I effectively own onetenth of their total revenue production at that site. And and that was my way to be in business with Chick-fil-A. And I did that with Starbucks and I did that with many companies around the country. 7-Eleven, I did I that was my philosophy about it was if I could own the real estate, um whoever leased it from me was effectively my partner on some portion. Sure. Um that came to me through rent. And uh and that was just a philosophical um view of it. So, so Chick-fil-A, you know, and and many of those companies early days, um, you know, it was a small deal. You know, giant real estate companies didn't want to go mess with it. They're like, "Ah, that's beneath me." But I was like, "I'll do it." And, and I I'll do I'll do whatever it takes. So, so we did a lot of it. And and they were fantastic partners. And many of those uh businesses like like Raising Cane, 7-Eleven, uh Chase Bank, CVS, all of these businesses, I built buildings for them and we had great partnership with them.

On things that I see kind of that others aren't particularly paying attention to. So out of the real estate business um about nine years ago um I co-founded a business called Krexy which today is based here in Los Angeles and today is the second largest purveyor of commercial real estate data in the country. And so early days um nine years ago you know somebody said hey do you want to own this office building and do you want you know they offered it to me to buy it and I got to thinking like what is the opposite of an office building? And I didn't like the office building business. I never did any deals in it because I thought the the capex was too high. I thought tenants would roll over too much. So I I found the cash flows unpredictable. I didn't like it, but I liked um but I said I want to find the opposite of it. So it was kind of a you know sort of a mental game with myself and and my myself and a co-founder and a couple other people. We thought about data as the uh the best commodity to try to own in commercial real estate. And today we have about five million people on the site. We have uh hundreds of thousands of of subscribers and uh and we have a listing service um where uh commercial real estate is listed you know Allah Zillow and and then also we um we harness data we synthesize it and then we sell it as lease comps as um sales comps and information that is really really important to commercial real estate professionals in order to make decisions about um selling a property, buying a property, leasing a property, financing a property, things like that. So we we sell you know um information and data to appraisal districts and you know city governments uh brokerage uh real estate brokerage companies things like you know groups like that all over the country and it's become a huge company um with about 600 employees um roughly based here in in uh in the LA area and it's um it's a fantastic business but we saw it way earlier than many others and and it took a lot of you know a lot of capital to to stand it and to to fight through the competitive landscape. And there were massive um semi- monopolistic competitors that were tough to engage and and fight through and still um takes a a lot of stamina to fight through that. So um yeah, that's one of the things that we saw and that I think

Um, uh, we, you know, we we helped build and and it's a massive um business, and I'm really proud of the work we've done there.

Yeah, I think that's so cool because I think it's such a good example of your business intuition, because you came from the world of real estate; like that's what you knew, like hard capital assets, all this stuff, but you were like, "What is a business that I want to get into that I know enough about that I have a competitive edge?" And so you're like, "Data—I want to get into that business," and you're like, "How can I do it through real estate?" I think that is so—there's like there there's definitely a lesson there, because I think a lot of people are trying to transition what they do and they're like, "How can I possibly, you know, get into," or like even myself when I worked—I started off working at at Goldman, and I thought I was going to work in finance my whole life, and then after two years I was like, "Same pivot, hard pivot," yeah, and I was like, "I want to work in consumer tech. How do I work in consumer tech?" It's like you find you you find the entry point—the entry point.

Yeah, but I I will say that I think part of the lesson too, for me at least, was real estate was comfortable, but but technology and engineering and uh software development was not. I was really like I I had a discomfort and a little bit of a fear. I can talk about it now. In the moment, I probably didn't internalize the fear that I really had. Um, and so I think that to me the lesson in many respects is um everybody has fear. We all have fear about something, right? Something that we don't understand or don't know. And so what do you do with it? Do you—I think about it and I say, okay, well let me let me understand my fear. Let me then compartmentalize it and then leverage it so I can adapt around it. But you got to leverage it. If you are afraid to leverage that fear, then then you don't go anywhere. I think you get stuck. And so to me it was always about putting it in a box and saying, "Let's go," right? Like let let's let's move against that thing and lean into the to the whatever is causing you a discomfort, but you got to recognize it, be a little bit self-aware, and fight through it. And I don't I don't—I think a lot of people don't want to do that, but you you should want to do it. That's how you uh adapt and uh evolve and and and progress in in your life journey—is leveraging it.

Almost like using that fear as motivation, or like how do you like leverage it practically? I mean, yes, I think yeah, I think leveraging it um as motivation, but I think also there's like a like a almost like a resentment or an anger that you have against a certain weakness. It's like, "You know what? I know it's there, and screw it. I'm going to go and fight it directly, like head on," and and who does that? Like it's tough to do, and and it yeah, so so yes, I think it's it's it's um leveraging it, it's modifying it, but it's also um having a certain resentment um that makes that fuels you um so do you want it or not? And and I think the people that that succeed are willing to um to go right at it um and fight it with a little bit of a little bit of of anger or resentment or whatever you to call it, but it's not it's not a it's not a um a soft feeling. It is an aggressive feeling. I think that's that's the difference. And I would say embrace it.

Yeah. Interesting. I'm having so many associations right now. Like I feel like there needs to be like a superhero track theme song like going on in the background as you're saying this, because it kind of reminds me of like Batman or like Batman Begins or like the Dark Knight or where like I see Fernando. I see it in you in the way that you're talking about it. It's really powerful as you're just saying it. I'm like, you know, absorbing everything, but also kind of just like witnessing kind of how you how you work and how your brain works and kind of some—I'm just—it's really admirable that I'm just like kind of seeing the power right now, and it feels like the Dark Knight when he's like, you know, you know, training training.

Yeah, it's kind of it's I think it is training. I you know, your mind needs to train, right? Like Yeah. Like if you've got a soft spot in your body and you physically train for it, it's no different with the brain. The brain says, "Oh, no, not there." No, that's where you go. And and that's not not a natural state. It's not a comfortable thing. If you're comfortable, you're not doing it right. Like it's got to be it's got to be you like suffering through it. Um, I do I do believe that, and I think that's really hard to to do on a self-awareness basis. It's not it doesn't come naturally. You've got to got to train for it for sure.

Yeah. A question for you. Maybe I don't know if this will kind of push you to think a little bit more about the the opposite side of that. It's like I talk to myself with a lot of um harshness, in a good way though. Like I push myself and I'm like, "You can do—like do it—like go for it." Is there a softness? I I wonder is there a voice in your head that also embraces like the softer, kinder side of motivation?

I think so, because it depends on why are you doing it—like why why are you pursuing that? Is it all about you? Um, it was never about me um in in the things I tried to accomplish. It was about our family, and and so there were, you know, five siblings, and now I have, you know, four children. I these things matter in the context of of our family, and this is a a philosophy of of uh of survival, of pursuit of improvement, and so I I think yeah, if you—it depends on who you're doing it for, right? If you you know I I I bet in your relationship between you two, I bet that there is a feeling of accountability, of not wanting to let each other down, of wanting to pursue together in that journey, so it's not out entirely about you. It's about both of you and about your family and and and um you know a certain gratitude that you have for your parents in the effort they put to send you to you know good schools and to and to provide an environment—like you are a function of those feelings, right? You can't you can't move those um so I do think that having a cause um for others and for yourself and for a um you know a company is massively um uh inspiring, and I I look at our companies and I I bet a—I don't know how to quantify this—but a substantial part of my motivation to build a business is that the people that are there—I want them to have good lives. I want to be supportive of their professional development. Like I I don't want them—I mean I I I feel like I'm obligated and I am accountable, and so we need to go row in that direction and make that company, that business, our initiative work. And so I don't know that—I think it depends on who—the softer side to your—on on your question is is about the people around you. Who are you doing it for and why? If it's—I don't I suspect that if you're entirely self-centered, you probably don't have the leadership and the charisma to motivate others to come with you in building something. If you're just self-absorbed and you don't have this softer side to to ask others to come with you, how do you scale?

Mhm. You have to be—you have to be—I mean I'm sure there's plenty of people that control great technologies that can just be total jerks and don't care about anybody but themselves. Um, because their technology is great. But I think for the most part, for mere mortals like like like us, I think you your ability to inspire and motivate others is what gives you operating leverage and allows you uh to go forward. So I do think there is definitely a softer side.

I love that. I think it's very cool—like listening to you speak, it makes a lot of sense in understanding that your original motivation was to provide for your family, and now it it almost sounds like you view your company as like your broader family now, and so it's just like scaling up that same that same like desire from a young age, and now you're just doing it on a much bigger scale.

Yeah, I I think so. I think there's a lot of people that have worked with me for 15 or 20 years that are um extraordinarily important in my life. And those people, you know, I know their families and I know um what they've done to sacrifice time and effort and you know, the the toughness um that they've exemplified to build a business, and how could you not be reciprocal? So you Yeah. So I think every every business that we've built um there are men and women that have sacrificed um time and and and there are you know other things in their life in order to build those businesses. So you have to be—I think I think it's um it's the right thing to to be reciprocal um in in having their back.

Yeah. Fernando, we're going to go through some more tactics and advice. So if you were starting from zero today, what is the first real move that you'd make to build wealth?

The truth is that when you don't have anything, what you really—if you don't have capital or resources, right? Like you have to figure out how to to get some. I know that sounds kind of basic, but it's true. Can you find maneuvers and tactics for yourself that aren't about capital? Because if you say, "Well, I don't have capital. I don't know how to get it. And then and I so I can't do anything," well, then you're stuck. So, it's—I don't have capital, but I'm going to find a way creatively to accomplish something through an idea, uh a tactic, u some kind of insight, um persuasion, charisma, whatever, right? Like salesmanship, whatever it takes. And you're going to find a way to maneuver around the opportunity and find value and extract it. That that is something that anybody can do. um There are no handbooks for it, there are no manuals for it, but you've got to develop it for yourself, and then um it'll manifest itself as value creation that you are able to at some points extract. And so, for instance, when I you know, when I first started my career, um in in Dallas building subdivisions, the first ones was a piece of land, and I didn't have the ability to buy that piece of land and build a subdivision. So, I had to go and talk to a uh the land owner and say, "Hey, I have this idea for building this land into a subdivision, and I'm going to sell these lots to home builders, and and I'm going to, you know, these are my my my numbers, my uh my expectations. Um, would you like to be a partner in this?" And they would contribute it into a partnership. Or sometimes I would have an option to buy the land and then go get entitlements or zoning changes from the city, and I could go do that through persuasion. I could convince the city to let me, you know, change it from an agricultural use to a residential use, and then that made the value of the land more valuable, and therefore I could get financing and limit the amount of capital that I needed. But I think that early days my my instincts were about how do I build value? Okay, so this piece of land—I'm going to option it, and if I change the zoning it's more valuable. What the option contract was a piece of paper. Um, and then I had to convince engineers to do the work um without me paying them. And they're like, "But you're 24. Why am I listening to you?" I'm like, "Come on, man, let's do this together." And and then it's like, "I'll take you hunting," or whatever. I did—I took these guys hunting when they they they did some work for me, and and they made good money. I I ultimately paid them because I was able to execute on this on this project. Um, but I don't know—like that that isn't a economic thing. It's not a capital constraint. It was just like getting people to um agree with you and follow you. And so, um, I think often times it's about, um, a little bit of tactical creativity and, um, and finding, uh, people that want to advocate for you. That person, by the way, that that put that land into a partnership with me, his name is Harold Pullman, and he, um, he was like in his early 80s, and he um, he actually told me, he said, "That piece of land can't be developed." I started—I I—he had come back from World War II and had built homes for GIS, and he—this was a little extra piece of land that he said was unbuildable, and I said, "What do you have to lose then if it's not buildable? Let me give it a shot."

Yeah. And he said, "You'll never be able to do it." Um, and I went and I convinced the Army Corps of Engineers and the city, and we we designed around some of the problems, and it took me a year and um and all of it came together, and he was shocked. He's like, "You know, I tried doing that for 40 years and I couldn't do it, but but but you did," and and so kudos to you. And so there are things that you can do with work and sweat equity that don't require having, you know, capital day one. So I would say focus on creativity, persuasion, salesmanship. Building something out of nothing is damn hard, but you—there are—everybody who has built something out of nothing has done it. So So uh so give it your shot.

It actually—listening to your story reminds you reminds me of kind of like our beginning for Tiger Sisters, because when we first conceptualized Tiger Sisters, we were like, actually we want to build Tiger Sisters as a reality TV show, and like we want to bring people along and like have them like learn these business lessons through this reality TV show where we would, you know, work with all these different startups or different companies. And then as we made kind of like our pitch and we started like bringing it to different people, first of all, we were like, "Oh, wow. Hollywood is like five different strikes going on. Not a good time. Not actually the worst time in history to bring reality TV to Yeah. Yeah. to life." And then the second thing was we were like, "Oh, you know what? This actually is going to create—it requires a lot of capital and also a lot of sort of like ingrained systems and relationships are required to to bring something to life in the Hollywood system, in the traditional traditional—get it on a streaming service."

Yeah. And so we were like, okay, what can we do that we actually build it on our own terms and we can still achieve the goal that we want, which is bringing sort of like education to people in a fun, digestible way. And we were like, "Let's do a podcast," because the barriers to entry are pretty much nothing, almost nothing. And we started out in our home office, actually the the kitchen table, literally in our kitchen um our dining room table, which is very small, with these crappy microphones, with a camera that was $400. Like, do not watch our earlier episodes because they are not well produced the way that they are now here. The information is good.

Yeah, the information is good, but you know, we were we were iterating on it constantly, but if there are obstacles, it's—to your story and your point—it's like how do you go around it, over it, under it, but like don't let something like that stop you. We we heard a lot of nos in the beginning. We mourned our reality TV show concept for about like 3 days, and we're like, "We need to pivot. What do we do to actually bring this to life the way that we want to?"

Yeah, but it's that concept of like taking what you know and like creating some sort of value without having the capital behind it. Like you don't need to have capital in order to begin.

Yeah. No, I I totally agree. I mean I think there are countless examples of of that situ—that kind of situation. I think there is a little bit of like self-awareness too of just saying, "Hey, um, like for instance the brand like Tiger Sisters, the concept, right? Like this was like, 'Hey, we know who we are, and we think this will resonate with the public,' and then you're authentic, right? And and and then then fundamentally that's what people are responding to—just like Mr. Pullman was responding to my authenticity. You know, your viewers are responding to saying, 'Hey, um, these two women are, you know, strong and smart and they're building uh a set of ideas that we can um rally behind and and and understand, and and the content is valuable to me.'" So, I think ultimately, by the way, the that last part, "It's valuable to me."

Yeah. Is has to be there.

Yeah, you can have all the the dreams, but if it's—if your viewers find it valuable, then you have something that's important. Ultimately, I built homes in that subdivision that were valuable to those people that live there, and they went and and um built a family there. They built home equity. They built net worth through home ownership, and that was valuable to to those groups of people and to society. So ultimately, that last part has to be there. Otherwise, you just you can't you can't fake it, right? That has to that has to permeate through your through your work.

Yeah, I really love that. It's like so fundamental, but just the idea of like, "Build something of value." Like so many people start—like startup founders, I think like forget about that now. They're like, "Let me just build something—like let—I want to do something in AI. I want to build something AI blah blah blah." It's like, okay, but is it valuable to people? Are you building something of value? Or or or if—or for instance the other thing that is done a lot—not just in venture, but it's um what valuation can I get, and then that is just a bunch of groupthink where somebody says, "I think it's very valuable," and they're all in the same little bubble, and then when it goes out to people that are going to consume that good or service, it turns out that people don't value it—the only people that valued it were the ones um you know giving it a valuation of of X or Y, and then the consumers of that good or service said, "You know what? I kind of—it doesn't really give me anything."

Yeah. And so it—and then that that valuation bubble bursts, and it happens all the time too. Um, so fundamentally, a group of people deriving uh value of time or or anything through that good or service is the only way you get rewarded in capitalism.

It's fair. It's fair. It's very very fair. I've always thought capitalism is this you know interesting this philosophy that fundamentally has fairness at its value. And not everybody agrees with me on that. I think um but but I do think that if you give people—you may not like the person that created that technology or that idea, but why do people consume it? Because they derive value from it. So it's a—it has to permeate that; otherwise things break down um often very quickly too.

It's kind of a hot take that capitalism is is fair.

Yeah. Mhm. Should we wrap up with one one last—Wait, when are we talking about love? Do you have do you have some advice for us? You have some advice. Well, actually, do you want to talk about love? I would like you—love. I don't know. Uh, I think Fernando wants to set us up.

Really? I mean, I will try—I will I will I will work really really hard on—I guess I—Let me ask you guys a question about love. Um, how how do how do very driven um highly intelligent women—how how do you find the way to um sort of properly interact with uh with members of the opposite sex? How do how do you how do you how do you do that when you're when you're so driven? Does it does it make it difficult to date? You know, someone

Asked me this exact question yesterday, too. Really? Yeah. Over Instagram.

Um, there's a lot of noise, and it's actually interesting. You know what, going back to your earlier point about credentials blinding you, I think that's where it can be tough as dating as like a very ambitious woman. So, uh, women we like, you know, going to business school and like this is it. I'm going to find, you know, my partner for life, you know, in my class, all this stuff. But I think also dating at that level, um, I want to make sure the person that I'm dating is supportive of my dreams, goals, and ambitions. I think that can be tough when I have a lot of them. We have a lot of them. And someone who's not afraid of that, who will support me along the way. And also, I think there's a lot of noise because at that level, I think the people that we're dating are also very successful. Yeah. And um, it's a balance, and so they have dreams, too. And so making it all complimentary is not not an easy Rubik's Cube. And making sure that you know there's no ego when it comes to love. Yeah. Um, that part I think is really hard, and seeing deeply into their heart.

Oo, damn. If you can, you know what, you know what's interesting is, is um, when I first um, so I sold a bunch of assets in like 2007, um, and then you know, when 2008, nicely done. Well, it was it was a little bit lucky. Um, but but but in 2008, um, you know, I got back into it, and the first few deals that I did, I struggled, and I had a lot of problems, and I was really really down, and I almost gave up, and my um my wife um we were like very recently married. Um, she said um she's like, you know, shake it off. Get back up and go go find your place. And and I was like, "No, you know, I'm just going to go I'm going to get a job somewhere and and and not be an entrepreneur anymore." And and she said, "Look, if you do that, I don't think this is going to we're going to do we're going to last." And I said, "Why?" Um, she said, "Well, you're going to drive me crazy because you have to be an entrepreneur. You're never you're never going to be like, you know, inside an organization and like be a good employee. You're going to be a pain in my ass. So, please go out there and go build a piece of real estate or go do something, but go go uh get back up and do it." And and she was doing it a little bit to like, you know, protect her own self from me being, you know, around the house too much. Um, but it was interesting that she knew me um, you know, and and was willing like she actually believed in me, but she also was pushing me harder than I was pushing myself, which didn't happen a lot. But in a moment of vulnerability when I was down and like psychologically I was uh vulnerable, she was like, "No, we're doing this. Get back up." And she was like, you know, in your corner in a boxing match and you're kind of getting, you know, punched around. And she's like, "No, get back in there and go fight." And and so I do think that that in in in a relationship, you have to have a person that that sees you um even in your most vulnerable state and and compels you to to keep going.

She knew you deeply, and we we had only been dating for a couple of years before we got married, and so yeah, she did kind of know my essence quickly. I think it's also it's very funny you asked that question because I was telling you earlier I was at a bachelorette this weekend, and it was 10 HBS girls, and we actually were talking about this. We were doing a little bit of like not accounting, but we were like talking through all of our friends. Were like, "Actually, a good number of our friends are the breadwinners within their family unit." Yeah. And it's a lot of people are like, you know, I didn't think it was going to turn out this way. And it's not like my husband is not, you know, or my partner is not incredibly talented or like successful in his own right, but they're the the breadwinners. And they are receiving a lot of support from their partners. And one of my girlfriends was like, you know, I thought it was, she's like, I always thought it was so important to have a partner who was, you know, the same sort of credentials, like Ivy League, undergrad, you know, MBA, like all this stuff. And she's like, I actually realized that that wasn't what was most important to me. It was like having someone who loves me and understands me deeply and we support each other. Yeah. And so I think that's I don't know. Yeah, that's massive. I mean, I think that's that's a big chunk of it. I think, you know, there's uh in my case in particular, my my wife really was able to interact with my family, too. And that was super important uh for me because they were so foundational uh as a part of my life. And so that was an important thing, and she she took it on as a as as part of her identity and and that was inc, you know, super important to me. So yeah, I mean I think I think the supportive element has to be there. You cannot both, you know, move forward um without a supportive element.

Money, power, and love. Yeah, there we go. Hit them all. The trifecta. Thank you for bringing us back to, you know, we almost forgot for a second. Thank you for bringing us back to love. Yeah, I never thought I'd be uh talking about love. I've never I have never gone down this rabbit hole, but um but you know, it's good. It's a little cathartic. Yeah. And it's also mixing the hard with the soft as a holistic person. It's the spice of life. It is the spice of life. The juice of life.

Okay, so we have a section called rapid fire where we're going to hear your hottest takes if things are overrated or underrated. And yeah, this is going to be super fast and really fun. So those are the two answers, overrated, or underrated. Well, they they kind of depend for each one, but it's so that's the concept. But yeah, you can start. Yeah, you can kind of start with that and then explain. Yes. explainer behind. Yeah. Okay. I like this. Okay. First one, Fernando. Okay. Mark Cuban, business genius or overrated TV billionaire.

Oh man. Um uh um okay. Look, let's talk about the facts. Yeah. Broadcast.com was sold to Yahoo, and Yahoo um wrote down the value of Broadcast.com to zero within about a year, a year and a half. Um, so that wasn't a good one. Um, you know, the the idea of um I don't know I I I don't know what kind of investments are done on Shark Tank, but it seems to me that they're uh mainly consumer products and and and not extremely um scalable businesses. And so um maybe maybe I I would take the under on that on that one. I like that. I like that. Okay. So Harvard, you went to Harvard for undergrad. Is it responsible for success or just a nice flex? Are elite schools stepping stones or status signals?

Oh, um yeah, this one's going to be a little controversial, but I actually think that um the idea of a flex and a and a name that comes with your background may often blind you uh to blind spots that are uh that are painful lessons later. So you have to be really careful with letting that take up too much of your identity and and so you got to you got to manage it. Um I don't think um I think you know some harm can be done from embracing uh brand identities like that. Brands are information shortcuts, right? And Harvard is an information shortcut just like any other. It's like Apple and and every every uh brand out there. So um do you do you uh you know fall into it? Do you embrace it fully? And then what kind of implications does that have for your scrappiness and your resolve and going forward? Does it slow you down a little bit? I love that phrase. It's information shortcut because we actually do use it that way. We've talked about this a lot where sometimes we feel like it's very cringe that we're also we're always like, "Oh, Harvard and Stanford like blah blah blah." And we sometimes we're like, "Oh, do we overrely on that?" But it's an information shortcut. It's basically just a way for us to be like, "Hey, like we're not just talking out of our asses. We're actually legitimate, and this is why you should, you know, tune into what we have to say. You know, one of the reasons my my daughter asked me like, "Is it important, Dad, to get into a good school?" And I said, "Look, it's important in so much as it shows the discipline of you trying to achieve something and getting it done." So, I think that's important. Um, and so you don't want to be passive and you want to pursue your dreams. And if some of that is a great university, then go for it. No, no, no judgment. But but but then you know once you're out there fighting like did Mr. Pullman really care about my Harvard degree? Probably not. Like he was like, hey, can you get it done or not? And so ultimately it's got to be um you got to execute and and so you know if that's a crutch does it slow you down? That's just it's a question and uh and I pose it for for everybody to for reflection forction. Yeah.

Crypto, is it a legitimate long-term play or glorified casino?

Oh man, you got me. Um, that's a This is so fun. That's a tough one. Um, you're you're you've been like hacking my emails or something cuz I've got serious. Okay, so let's see. Um, let's see. Number one is I used to see in other countries, and I grew up around, you know, straddling two different countries. And so in Mexico, you would see currency devaluations every time a president left. M so you would see like the the treasury rated um reserves uh decrease and therefore the currency of of the country um suffer in value. Crypto is a great way to store wealth against that kind of thing. So in the United States not so much because you know the dollar is a reserve currency, but if you live in Angola, if you live in Africa in certain African countries in certain parts of Latin America where you have hyperinflation and dysfunctional governments, would you want to have crypto? And I think I think I would lean towards yes. Um I I believe in crypto; there is a lot of regulatory framework that is immature and needs to be built. I think there are for obvious reasons elements of of crypto that are um shady and and uh and difficult uh to navigate. And so I think you got to be careful. I've invested um in crypto, and I did very well, but I would say that there was very little fundamentals around it. I think, you know, I got lucky and and I took my wins and and ran with it, but but I don't I don't I wouldn't know how to invest in it at a fundamental level. I think it would um it would be difficult for me to do that. I wouldn't go as far as what, you know, Charlie Munger said, uh which was that it was, you know, dog [ __ ] But it uh but it but it you know but I think there is a use for it in certain you know contexts. Um but I think you have to tread very very lightly on crypto. Okay. So crypto better than dog [ __ ] according to Fernand. That's what Munger said. I think I wouldn't go all the way over there as a headline. But uh yeah, those guys were old school or are old school, but uh but I think um there is a place for it in some context. I think if you went to I mean if you see the devaluations that happen in some countries there are people in Nigeria I think um I have a friend that runs a a a crypto exchange company and he says many of the customers are Latin America, Africa, Asia um so you find those people have you know derive value from buying those stores of wealth and so if they're deriving value then who are we to to say that uh that that that there's something wrong with it. So I wouldn't go as far as tarn did. That's a very practical practical very like capitalism very international very yeah I could imagine it's it'd be really useful for like remittances too now that I think about it. Yeah, I think it has been been used in remittances good and bad right that's the that's the catch and so like in in in many topics like this it's not black or white and and it is uh a whole bunch of gray in crypto and um we'll see we'll see where how it evolves for sure. It's not going anywhere. I don't think I think if you thought if you thought crypto was dead, you know, two or three years ago whenever we had that bubble burst, um I don't think that that's the case right now.

Fernando, thank you so much for being here with us and giving us the real talk on money, money, power, and love. And we always say we want to be the internet's big sisters and career mentors and that we wish we had, and that's really what we got with you today. So, thank you for being here and for being, you know, the internet big brother like kind of family that we've built together with Tiger Sisters. I love it. I love it. I'm happy to uh I'm happy to have been a a guest because I think you guys are uh disseminating and procilitizing great ideas that that people can benefit from. So, if you got value from this conversation, if it made you laugh or kind of like think deeply or question what you've been taught, um take a second to follow, like, and subscribe. And please rate us five stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. And also send this to a friend who would enjoy it. We'll see you next time on Tiger Sisters. Bye bye.