Transcription
Foreign. I'm not happy. I'm depressed. Your daughter will spend her life wondering what it is about her that is making you so electric, so unhappy.
[Music]
What is going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. So grateful that you've joined us. Talking about your marriage, and your parenting, and your mental health, and emotional health, and your kids, and whatever else you got going on. We have a packed studio house today. That's not really true, but we do have some, and we have some parents and their kids. And my favorite thing, I mean, literally, I love it when my kids tell me they love me. And, um, the second favorite thing is when parents and their kids come to watch the show. We always end up talking about something that's going to make lunch incredibly awkward, and I love it. Makes my heart feel good because they all know that everyone knows that they know that they know. And my also favorite is when, uh, like, uh, 20-year-olds, teenagers, when they start looking at the floor, like, like they don't like their parents don't know what's going on. So great. I love it. And so we got it today.
Um, all right. Hey, important. Um, when this show goes out, when is the show released? You guys know? September 8th. Okay. September 8th. That will be about three weeks out from when student loan payments are red or redo are due. Um, they're back in the world. We're gonna get rid of them. They're all gonna go away. They didn't go away. And I, um, also co-host the Ramsay Show. I also receive emails by the gajillions and social media requests. People are terrified. They're so anxious. They can't breathe. Um, people have bought cars, they took jobs, they moved across the country, they bought homes, they made significant changes to their life with this idea that this burden would be gone, and it's not. Um, and so, um, on September 12th at 7 p.m., we're gonna learn like, um, my friends here, my colleagues here, Jade Warshaw and some, and some others, are going to, um, do a livestream, 100% free. And what do you do now? Like, how do you get rid of these student loans forever? There is no cavalry coming. There's no white horse coming to rescue you. You're gonna have to pay them back. Um, I've done it. It's awful. I paid back six figures. Jade paid back almost half a million dollars, her and her husband, seven years, they just ground it out. Um, so her and a couple other, my colleagues are going to be walking through, what do you do? How do you get rid of these things forever? I'm sick of waiting on the government. I'm sick of waiting for all these things. Register today at ramseysolutions.com/studentloans. And again, if you're anxious about what to do next, check that out.
Okay, let's go out to, um, Dallas, Texas, and talk to two money. Let's talk to Trent. What's up, Trent?
Hey, how are you? Partying, man. What about you, man? I'm doing, I'm doing all right. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm a huge fan. It's an honor to get to talk to you right now.
I appreciate that, man. What's up?
Hey, uh, so I've been struggling for a while, like, prob, probably like the last three years, like a lot of people. Um, and I'm just wondering, how do you, how do you, like, reconcile mistakes that you've made in your past and like still find a way to, uh, excuse me, um, to feel fulfilled in life? Um, I'm kind of in a place right now where I just don't know if I'm ever going to be able to feel just peace.
What'd you do that's so bad that this many years later you can't breathe?
See, the issue is, uh, I have a lot of shame about feeling this way. So if you don't mind, I'll take you back to about 2020. It was, it was 2020. Um, and I'm sitting on the couch in my apartment with my wife, and I'm not happy. I'm depressed because of COVID and the quarantine, and it's all got us all shut down. And I'm sitting there thinking about, I don't know if this is the life that I want. I have no idea what I'm gonna do. I don't know if I want to stay married. Those kind of things.
How long have you been married?
Four years now. So you're about married about a year in, yeah?
Okay. So people tell me, no, no, no, no, no. You were about a year in when you started having this like, "What am I doing?" Yes. Yeah. So before we keep going, I just want to socially norm. That's the nerd word. I want to let you know I had those exact same thoughts. In fact, I sat down with my wife and said, "I don't think we've done the right thing. What do we do next? How do we untangle this? Because this is not going to work." And that was 21 years ago. Okay. So I want you to know you're not crazy. That's a super common. Sitting there next to somebody going, "What have I done?" Okay. Right. Okay. So bring it. Keep going.
Yeah. And as I'm laying on the couch having those thoughts, and I'm not really feeling it, but like inside, I'm just full of turmoil. You're showing it. And, uh, it's all over the place. But go ahead.
No, no, no, no. I'm so. Go to the bathroom. And she goes, "Hey, babe, I'm pregnant."
Fail. Yeah. Not planned. Uh, definitely. It wasn't our idea to get pregnant in the middle of that whole mess that was going on. And, um, you know, I feel so bad because she had always wanted a kid. And, you know, you see those videos of wives when they tell their husbands that they're pregnant, and the husband just has this overflowing reaction of joy, and it's this heartfelt thing. And I lay there on the couch and had a panic attack.
Okay.
Of what's led me to where I'm at today. Um, well, and I'm hearing it. And if you were here, if you were watching me live, you would see like, that doesn't surprise me. And there it would have been neat to have an Instagram moment, and it would have been cool to like, be flooded with emotions. But we were in the middle of an international health crisis that might kill us all. And so your first instinct, your body went, "Oh, no. I can barely keep us alive, much less a child." That's not crazy. In fact, I would think it was more normal than going, "All right, right."
I mean, right, right. No, for sure.
And then, and I've, I've battled with depression and anxiety my since I was a teenager. Like, it's something I've dealt with. It kind of ends and flows up and down. Uh, it just, I just manage it. And so over the last few years, you know, when she said I was pregnant, I put all my feelings aside and was like, "Well, okay, regardless of how I feel for the marriage, like, I want to give my daughter a, you know, a complete family, a household. I want to be a good dad and I want to be present." So that's what I've been trying to do. So we moved out of our apartment, got into a house. And like, now fast forward a long time, I'm in a lot of debt. I work a hard job. I just, this is just, I feel like if 18-year-old me was looking at 27-year-old me, he'd be so disappointed.
And your 18-year-old you was an idiot. Um, I'm sure he is, right? Yeah. He was. He was 18-year-old me. Bathed on a weekly schedule. Followed Pantera around and was like, you know what I mean? Like, if 18-year-old me was insane, I hope 18-year-old me doesn't like me. That tells me I've grown up some. Sure. Like, that's a, that's a bad comparison. That's fair.
And I'll admit, I was a dumb 18-year-old, like everybody else. Yes. My, my dilemma right now is that I feel like I have this life that so many people really would want, and I'm so selfish that I can't find a way to just be content and happy in it. That's, that's just what I'm dealing with.
Okay. You've talked about wanting to take care of your wife. You've talked about wanting to take care of your kid. What happened to Trent? That Trent thinks Trent sucks. Why do you think so little of Trent that Trent is worth having a peaceful life? Which, by the way, is the greatest gift you can give your kid. It's not a five-bedroom house, but it may be a two-bedroom apartment where there's peace because that's what y'all can afford right now. Or, maybe some significant, serious marriage counseling. And your wife's got a role to play in this, too. Where y'all create a house that's full of warmth and laughter as much as possible in this crazy world. As opposed to, "I'm gonna make sure there's this suburban, and this thing, and this style of backpack, and this kind of lunch box." And so I am going to live as though I'm on on fire so that we have this crap. Does that, see what I'm saying? Like, what, what happened to Trent? Because Trent deserves so much more than the life he's allowing himself to live.
I guess, I guess I don't think you ever had it, man. You could be right there as well. Because here's what it sounds like you're trying to do. It sounds like you're trying to get to a particular finish line. And that finish line might be number of cars, size of house, um, number of kids, number of times you have sex in a week, um, net worth, whatever metric you're putting up for yourself as normal. Um, whatever that's supposed to mean. And you're trying to achieve peace. And the, you've heard me say this a million times on the show, the crappiest part about making a hundred thousand dollars for the first time is that you go with you. You're the one that cashes that paycheck. And if you don't like yourself with 40 grand, you are not gonna like yourself with 100 grand. And you're gonna hate yourself with a million.
Yeah. No, it makes sense. And here's my future. Can I, can I be ugly for a second? Like, pretty direct? Please do.
No, please do. Um, your daughter will spend her life wondering what it is about her that is making you so electric, so unhappy. And my guess is, you were put in a position to make Mom and Dad happy. Is that fair?
Yeah.
Don't make Mom mad. If you say this, Dad's gonna get angry. Is that you growing up?
Yep.
Okay. And so what you did was, your identity becomes rooted in what other people expect of me. My job on Earth is to make sure other people fill in the blank. And that keeps you alive when you're a kid. And when you get older, you become untethered and you start chasing, "I need something to feel good."
That makes sense. So the question I'll ask you, man, like, from the inside out, um, and don't be scared of the answer. You're not gonna shock me. What do you want, man? Put it, put aside the house, put aside the, the cars, put aside the, what, what do you want?
[Music]
That's honestly, John, that's the question that I've been, I've been trying to ask myself. And this is why I feel so stuck. Because I feel like even if I, and I'm not, I don't want to do this, I'm not going to do this, but like, even if I were to leave my family, go off and do my own thing, I'd be so miserable. I'd be so miserable.
You'd go, "No, that's right." So, right. Let me ask you, um, I think an easier question, but a, a different one. Not, "What do you want?" That's people will go to counseling for years to answer that question. That's a hard question to answer. What do you want your house to feel like when you get home every day?
I feel like, like a home. I just want to get home.
What is it? What does that mean? Because here's, I'll tell you my house. I'll give you some words. When I walk in the door, you know what I just want to feel? I want to feel like my wife likes me. I just want to feel like she's happy I'm there. And I, my kids are kids, right? So I'm not going to outsource my feelings to them. But I want there to be a sense of my daughter running at me with a sword and a pillow trying to stab me with her imaginary thing. And my son sitting there working on his novel, like a good little nerd. Like, I, I want it to feel like that. You see what I'm saying? There's nothing great.
Yeah. But when I did that math, I had to get rid of a bunch of stuff that I had taken, I had taken loans out on, because my wife didn't like me when I was stressed out all the time. And I was stressed out when I owed a bunch of people money all the time. See what I'm saying? So yeah, when you walk in your house, what do you want to feel like?
I guess I want that. I want, I want to feel light. I want that weight of, of life to just, I want the world to be outside. And when I walk in, I want that to not be in the world anymore. I want the weight of everything to just be lifted off.
Um, you might be talking about your kids. And I don't want to make it sound like I don't like my family. When my daughter, I don't hear that at all. Okay. I hear that. I hear that you don't like Trent. I hear that you love your daughter beyond the end of time. And I actually think you love your wife beyond the end of time. You don't like that you, they have anchored themselves to you, a guy that you don't like. And you thought all of this was supposed to feel differently.
Yeah, that's probably pretty fair.
So, so here, here's the, here's the path you got forward. Okay. Path number one is you keep running and you keep achieving and you keep hustling. You keep grinding it out at work. And you're gonna have a customer come in one day, and she's beautiful and hilarious, and she's gonna make you laugh. And you're gonna think about her. And she's like, "That happens to all of us, right? There's beautiful, hilarious people everywhere." And then she's gonna come back the next month. And then she's gonna say, "All right, I'll be back in two weeks for my next order." And you're gonna be waiting for her the next time. And then you're gonna get her number. And then it all goes sideways that way. Okay. That's, that's number one.
Okay. That hasn't already happened. Some version of that, it's coming. My guess is, you, it's probably shown up before.
The second one is, you get a babysitter for your kid and you take your wife out and you say, "The life I'm creating for us is making me insane. And I love you more than life itself. And I've tried to show you I love you with all this stuff. And I need to do something different." Okay. I also think you need to call. Minute. Stay on the line. I'm going to send you, um, three months of free counseling with my buddies at BetterHelp. I think you need to call and you need to ask them, like, "When you talk to the counselor, what are you working on today?" "I don't like me." And my daughter deserves a husband, I mean, a dad, who loves himself enough to take care of himself enough to be an anchor. My wife deserves a husband who's not trying to use her to make himself feel better. And I want you all to work, work through that. Is that fair?
Totally fair.
Um, totally fair. In this, uh, "Building a Non-Exist Life" book, I just put out, um, there's a chapter in there called "Choose Freedom." And it's not like, uh, Eagles and like, uh, American flag underwear. That's not what I mean. Um, yeah, it's taking a true inventory of who is telling you what you need to be doing every second of every day. Where are those "shoulds" coming from? Or have "dues" coming from? Some of them come from a bank saying, "You have to go to work tomorrow at this crappy job because you owe me." Or a car dealership, or a clothing credit card, or whatever. Sometimes it's in-laws telling you when you're gonna do Christmas and how you're gonna do whatever. "And my granddaughter is not going to go to that school." So you, like, and you go on and on and on down the list. And so I think an important exercise for you, I'm going to send you a free copy of the book too. But I, I want you to go through that exercise. Where is this voice coming from? Who's the person telling me all these things that I should be doing this, and I should feel like this, and I? Because what you're gonna find is it's not you. It's your mom. It's your dad. It's your coach. It's some well-meaning but kind of moronic pastor from your childhood. It's, it's whoever, man. It's people you work with. And at some point, you have to take ownership back of those voices. Does that make sense?
Totally makes sense. And I'll probably do that exercise today.
Okay. That'd be, I, I would love that. And, dude, I'd love to have you back on with your wife sometime. You think she'd be willing to do that?
Uh, yeah, yeah. I think she would be. I didn't tell her I was calling you today. I was kind of involved. And talked to her about this for sure. I think she would love to come on.
All right. So just to peek behind the curtain. Okay. This morning, um, I have a close friend who's in a really, um, tough situation with one of his kids. Those kids is, um, sick. And one of the most extraordinary, beautiful little kids I've ever had the presence, I mean, the honor to meet. And he called me and asked me a question. And I thought I knew the answer. But just to make sure, um, I called one of my friends, um, and I've had her on the show, Lynn Jennings, Dr. Jennings, back there in Texas, who's an expert with working with kids. And she said, in her own wonderful way, "With all due respect, John, you're way off on this one." And here's this, and here's this, and here's why. And she gave me the developmental research. Because that's how nerds talk to each other. But here's the thing. I was wrong. And here's what I got the opportunity to be a little less wrong. Right? Like, there's no shame or embarrassment. I didn't know. Okay. So similarly, I want you to free yourself, man, from the shame and embarrassment of, "All right, I'm four years in. I have a kid that was a surprise. And I've got a wife that we're still figuring out. Do we like? How we even like each other?" Okay. Those are skills. I don't have. You've never been married for four years with a kid. This is all new. Cut yourself some slack, man. No shame here. What you're doing is you're finding out answers. And that's gonna help you be a better husband, better dad. And quite honestly, it's gonna help you make peace with Trent. Because I think Trent is a pretty good guy. I think if you ask the people in your life, or if I did, "What do you think about Trent?" They probably tell me good stuff. I think there's one person who doesn't like Trent. That's you. And you can make all the money in the world, and you can get your kid all the nice things, make sure your wife is clothed in rubies and whatever.
[Music]
But if you don't like you, man, it's all for naught. It's all for naught. And on the light, man, we'll hook you up. We'll be right back.
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, this is Deloney. I hope you all are doing well. Listen, sometimes it's hard to get our brains to turn off. And I know what I'm talking about. I am the king of racing thoughts. They've kept me up at night. They've got me up early and kept me from connecting with people I love. If you find your thoughts start to race right before bed or during other super inconvenient times, a great way to make those racing thoughts slow down or stop is to talk them through. And therapy gave me a place to do that so I could get off the negative thought treadmill, learn positive coping skills, set healthy boundaries, and find some mental and emotional peace. And it can help you too. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. BetterHelp is convenient because it's entirely online, so it's flexible and can fit into your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can even switch therapists at any time for no extra charge. So take a break from racing thoughts with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com/deloney.
All right, we're back. Let's go out to Joe in Chicago. Hey, that kind of rhymes. All right. What's up, Joe?
Sean, thank you so much for taking my call.
Of course. What's happening?
Um, I have a quandary.
Quandary? Oh, that's a word that we've never heard on the show. I think this is the first quandary. Excellent. There you go. Grab a nickel for that, too.
Um, um, my quandary is, my issue is, I grew up very Catholic, very obedient, without contest.
That is fantastic. Very Catholic. Okay.
Yes. And, and, you know, like, so you are great at following rules and you do not ask questions.
No.
I exactly, exactly. That. And it's because an issue as an adult, correct?
Um, and it is, it has turned me into a people pleaser. It has turned me into a little, sorry, um, success-pursuing machine that is always tired. And it is ruining my relationship with people.
Is this, is this from church or is this from your parents?
I think it's a little of both, to be very honest. Okay.
Um, um, my mom, who is a wonderful lady, she raised me as a single woman. My dad chose to leave.
I'm smiling here. When you watch the YouTube, you can see me laughing just then. Anytime somebody says, "My mom, she was amazing," and then there's always a butt. Or like, or my dad was so great, but I mean, they're, they're your first love. They're your first nurturers. They're your first interaction with everything. And they can also be your first abusers. And they can be your first person who used you to make themselves feel better about themselves. It's all true at the same time, right?
Yes, it is.
Okay. And, um, my father was an abusive individual. And my mother didn't want us growing around, um, that in that kind of an environment. Good for her. So she left. She immigrated to the United States by herself with two toddlers. So she's a tough, strong woman, right?
You got that right. Okay. You don't mess with her.
And, um, you know, she, and, you know, being an adult, I recognize the hardships of that. I recognize not knowing anybody and taking your children and truly just relying on your faith and your, your tenacity to work and your mind. So as I grew up and I got older, I began to question things. This anybody does. Um, and I became skeptical about a lot of things. And it wasn't until very recently I started realizing, am I being obedient or am I honoring my mother? Which is a big, a big exhale, but also a big suspended breath in my chest. Because it is one of the things that, you know, I try to do. I try to be a good Christian person, but also try to live my life.
So obedience and honor are not, are not one in the same. Obedience and honor are mutually exclusive. Here's what I mean. Um, when you're 10 and your mom says, "Take out the trash," because you're a member of our household and you play a role here too, honoring your mom is taking out the trash, right? Um, if you're 13 and you come home and say, "Dad, I'm getting bullied," and your dad grabs you by the collar and says, "When you walk into school tomorrow, you get off that bus, you walk straight into the lockers, and you hit that kid in the mouth as hard as you can." That is not honoring your dad by hitting him. It's acting like a child like he is. Okay. Yes. So, um, one is obedience. Is honor? One is disobedience designed. I'm not gonna go hit a kid in the mouth. That's not gonna make this better. Um, or if the opposite happens, if my son witnessed somebody, another kid in his grade beating up a girl in the hallway, I would fully expect him to intervene. So I've trained him to do right, to make sure people are safe. And so all I have to say is this.
How old are you now?
I'm 28.
Okay. My guess is Mom had a very rigid way of doing life because that's the only way she could survive. That's the house she grew up in. You also grew up without a dad. You've got a lot of childhood trauma. Okay. And the, the research on immigrant parents and first-gen kids and all that is both like, really makes for really sexy headlines. And also, those are scary houses to grow up in. Both, right? It's cool to tell the story like, "Man, my mom made it. Whoo. That was 20 years of whoa." And there's a lot of those stories that don't get told. Her mom didn't make it, right? So we know that you lived through that. My guess is now Mama's starting to tell you, continue to tell you how you're living your life and what you should be doing. And I'm your mom. Are you just gonna disobey your mom? And the answer is, honor. In this case, the best way you can honor your mom is to be well and whole. Because she raised you to be fiercely independent, to make hard choices, to walk away when you need to, to work like nobody's business with a work ethic. And that might mean telling her, "No, I'm not going to do that this time. I'm doing something different." Doing everything she says and getting crucified is not, uh, honor.
Yes. So give me an example of something she's telling you to do that you don't want to do anymore.
Oh, centered. I am the first born in accordance, you know, birth order. And I'm also the oldest girl. So the expectation to always take care of people is something that I also struggle with. But recently, I finished my second to last semester of nursing school. So I'm entering that phase of my life. And she wants me to stay in our town. Which I don't want to do. I've lived here for 28, well, close to 28 years. 20 more, so. And I don't, I don't want to be here. I feel that I have callings to go elsewhere. I feel like I need to go. I don't have community here. Yeah.
And I think if I was you, I'd sit down the conversation and say, "Mom, at a young age, you had to go, and you had to go for an abusive reason. I've got to go to go make my mark. You raised me this way. I'm so grateful you gave me the courage because a lot of people just stay in their same small town and they die there." And you're saying, "Time for me to go." And that, that departure will be met with all kinds of, "I can't believe you're abandoning your family. What about this?" That's about them. It's probably because you're such an amazing daughter that your mom has come to rely on you like oxygen, right? And she's a grown-up, and she's gonna have to find connections there. And this doesn't mean you're gone forever, but it might mean, "I'm gonna go make a place for us, and then I'll come back and get you." Like, it can mean any number of things. But I think you need to go because here's what's gonna happen. If you don't, you're gonna start to resent your mom. And I don't think she deserves that. I don't think you deserve that. I don't think your relationship deserves that.
I agree. And it can be a two-year thing. Hey, I'm gonna try this out for two years. And that might give your mom a little dot dot dot. Give her an opportunity to grow into it. Might give you an opportunity to grow into it. And it doesn't sound so eternal or so forever. But I think you need to make a list of the things your mom is asking you to do or demanding of you, if you will. And walk through, probably with a close friend, would be best. But to walk through these and say, "Okay, as I'm 28 years old, I'm graduating college, I'm about to hit the market and go see the world. Um, how much of this stuff is honor, and how much of this is my mom just wants me around? Or how much of this is cultural from the old world?" To and I'm making some changes in my personal life. I'm adopting new parts of new cultures. And I'm gonna go do X, Y, and Z. Let's just choose reality, right? It's just owning it.
Mm-hmm. No, I'm telling you to do that. What's the feeling in your guts? Like, "Yes," or is it, "Oh, no."
I've tried to do that. Um, and, uh, it was really hard because the support system that I had gone to to get counseling on it, uh, was a pastor of mine. And I just, they knew that I was having issues with identities. They knew I was having issues with being independent as an adult should, or even just chart, what that feels like. And I remember sitting down and telling her, "I think it's time for me to go." And she said, "Oh, it's because of that new church that you joined."
Oh, gosh. You should have gone up and walked out. You should have got up and walked out. Oh, my gosh. Like, sit down with your barber and being like, "Oh, I see somebody else cut your hair." Like, what, what are we doing here? Yeah. You see how that, that pastor made your quest, your adventure, what comes next for you, your identity, all about her? Yeah. It's not that's not how you do that. You sit down with somebody. It's, "Man, I'm sorry that happened to you." Lucky for you, you've got some knuckleheaded, uh, podcaster that you've never met. I'll be sure to tell you. No, I, I mean, I, I think you gotta go. I think you gotta go. I think you gotta go. See. And I also think you got to be honest with your mom. I think you got to be honest with yourself. You are gonna feel incredibly guilty. And your mom probably wouldn't be your mom if she didn't just lay it on super thick. And if some of her friends and some of your extended family members can't believe you're abandoning everybody. Okay. But I think you need to go. Again, I would tell you, let's go try this for two years. Let's go try this for three years and see what happens. Let's see what happens. When we left Texas, and my wife and I left Texas, um, we left our all of our family, all of our friends, our whole thing. And to move to Nashville to work at at the university. I said, "Let's give this three years." And let's see what living in another state and their community. And dude, it's been magic. It's been awesome. So yeah, I think it's time. And, and again, remember, doing every single solitary thing your parents says, even when you're 30 years old, that's not honor. Living the life that they trained you to live to the fullest, taking care of them when they need care, setting up support networks that they can opt in or out of. "I don't want to live there." "I want to live here." "I can't afford there." "Well, then you don't love me." Well, I'm not taking out a mortgage, right? Honor is a much bigger conversation than I said. So go, go see the world. Let me know when you get there. I want to hear how it goes. Sounds like an adventure awaits.
We'll be right back. Hey, good folks. Deloney here with some great news. You get to choose whatever you do, good or bad. Moving forward, the choice is yours. And when you're intentional about making good choices over time, those become healthy habits. They almost become automatic. Like choosing to slow down and make time for a daily practice of prayer and meditation. One thing that has helped me with my daily practice is Hallow. Hallow is the number one prayer app in the world. And they're giving you three free months to get started. That's three months for free to prioritize your mental and spiritual health and be intentional about finding peace through calming music, through guided prayers, meditation, and more. And by the way, Hallow isn't just Catholic. You can tailor the content towards your faith tradition. Or if you don't have a faith tradition, it's a great place to start. From scripture readings to prayers to journaling, Hallow makes it easy to practice mindfulness, build a deeper, more meaningful spiritual life, and choose peace. Remember, Hallow is giving you 90 days free. Imagine the peaceful habits you can establish in 90 days. Go to hallow.com/deloney today to start your free trial. Just follow the simple prompts at hallow.com/deloney for 90 days free.
All right, let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to the great and wonderful Ashley. What's up, Ashley?
Hi, how are you? Rocking out to the Breaking Dawn. What are you doing?
Um, decision. I submitted yesterday.
Awesome. Hey, um, do me a favor. Talk directly into your phone.
Can you hear me?
Perfect. Perfect. Okay. Okay. All right. So what's up? What have you done now? Just kidding.
So, um, I am struggling. I'm an emotional person. So this, I am really hard.
I am too. It's all good.
I'm struggling to be a single mom after a divorce. And just finding my place alone because I never saw myself being, um, alone. I'm a relational person. Like, I, I want to be in a relationship. I want to enjoy adventure and fun with somebody. And it's just, I'm really struggling with being alone.
What happened in your marriage? Sorry.
But, but, um, he ended it. There was a lot of, there was a lot of trauma that happened with my side of the family. And some things that happened that he wasn't happy with. And that he wouldn't support me through wanting to support my family. And so we, we, but it has a lot in that in the end. Um, but also ultimately, I felt like he was pulling away from me. And was a very, um, avoidant and dismissive person. And so when we tried to go through therapy, resolving that and saying, "I did more," really, really, I was stuck on my love languages, and that I need affection and words of affirmation. And he couldn't give that to me. I felt very alone. And so, um, I don't know if it was me pressing that. And, you know, at the end, plus some of the things that went on with, um, conflicts with my extended family, he filed in the end.
Did it surprise you?
Um, and then he was just kind of a more of a stoic, like, didn't show his affection. But it just felt like it got worse when, um, I lost my dad dramatically. And I lost my brother dramatically. And I just felt very much alone in that. And then when he tried to say that he didn't want anything to do with the rest of my family because of something that my brother had done, I just felt abandoned. I think. And I think I'm still struggling with that.
Is there a chance that, um, yeah, you should be struggling with that. That's hard. Is there a chance that you left him too?
Um, I think he just filed their paperwork. I signed. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, and I begged him not to do it. But I know that when it was all said and done, May 2022, a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders because of how he treated me. So I know that I'm, I was not with the person that I, that I would have wanted to be with forever. Like, I eventually, I might have ended things. But I wasn't raised that way. My parents were very happily married. So I, there's part of me that feels like I failed. And I failed my kids. But I do know that I'm happier now without him in my life. I just know it's causing me to struggle with where I'm at, single and feeling lonely.
There's a lot of different routes we could take. Give me, no, there's a lot. I know. It's okay. You're not a lot. Kelly, Kelly is a lot. You are not. So give me, like, give me a particular question we can work on.
Who I am? Because I know that I struggle with, um, my own identity and being okay with who I am because I think I said, there's still something there with feeling like I wasn't enough for him. So I'm not enough for someone else.
Okay. So those are two completely different things. All right. The first thing is, if you're not, if you're not happy being single, don't force yourself to pretend that you're happy that you're single. Yeah. It's okay to grieve that. I miss somebody. Yeah. And you miss just knowing that somebody's in the house in case there's a sound. You miss sex. You miss sharing a meal with somebody. You miss silliness. You probably even miss the conflict a little bit, just miss engagement, right? Yeah. I wouldn't pretend that you're not feeling that. That's going to make you insane, right? Yeah. Or like, to give you a picture, if you take that feeling and you don't want to feel it, like you press it down, you shove it down, or you compress it. Another word for that is to depress it, right? And your body goes, "Oh, we got it. Those things aren't good." So we don't want to do that, right? The second thing, you're talking about confidence. Because you're asking yourself the question, "What was so bad about me that he wouldn't just say, 'I love you,' and give me a back rub? What was so bad about me?" Right? What was so bad about me that when he was stressed at work, I was in his safe place to come? Um, like, "So bad about me that he wouldn't be with me when my dad died and my brother died?" And that's a question of confidence. And so the hard, the hardest turn to make is, "He didn't show up when my dad and my brother died because something was wrong with him, not me." Okay. And confidence is not something you can just whip up. You can't just imagine it. Confidence is something you have to practice. Your body knows the difference. We failed miserably with the self-esteem movement. Right? They studied a whole bunch of CEOs and they saw that these super successful people had insane belief in themselves. And so what they tried to do is go back and give that to kids. Just tell kids they're wonderful. Stop having trophies. Stop letting kids lose or get second place. We all win. We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna inject this, this insane self-confidence. What they failed to realize, and we've got a generation that grew up thinking that they're the greatest thing that ever lived, is those CEOs gained that insane self-confidence by failing a million times, right? And getting beat up and beat up. And they kept dragging themselves to one more step and one more step and one more step. So by the time they finally got to the top of whatever hill they were trying to climb, dude, they were the most confident guys in the world because they've been dragged down so much. And that's different. Okay. And so you got knocked completely over. Some by your own doing, some by him, somebody, just the, the nature of your relationship, man, for whatever reason, couldn't sit down and say, "Let's, let's dig into this." Yep. So you have to go on a journey to be weird. As how old are you?
42.
Oh, gosh. Making friends at 42. The worst. I have amazing friends, honestly, I do. Because I've had a couple girlfriends who've gone through divorce, and they're my rock. So I do have.
Hold on, but they can be your rock. But I've hung out with a bunch of divorced women before, right? Yeah. Yes, right. And I've hung out with divorced dudes before. When there's three or four, and it's like, "Bro, bro." And I just want to set my face on fire to make sure I can still feel, right? So it is good to have people who have been there before, who are like, down the road from you, to get some wisdom from. But you also need people in your life who still love the idea of love. Yeah. And who are still actively seeking connection. And you're gonna have to just be weird about some of these pictures you have in your head about, "This is the way this works." I just sit idly by in my church pew and some guy taps me on the shoulder and says, "Would you?" And you're like, "I would like that." That's not gonna happen.
I know, right? It's not gonna happen.
So you're gonna have to be weird. You might have to ask somebody at your office place, "Hey, didn't go get coffee?" Or somebody at the daycare center where your kid works, or your kid goes. I, I don't, I don't know your world. Or you have to say, "Hey, I'm back on the market, ladies. I've gotta, I've got to slowly take little baby steps into this thing." And dating is the absolute miserable worst. It's worse than making friends, as I've been told. Right?
It is. I've tried.
Yep. Okay. So remember back to those CEOs. It's, you're gonna have to just decide, "I'm gonna keep scratching and clawing. One more step. One more step. One more step." Okay? Because you're practicing confidence. And let's be super, super honest. Um, have you sat down and been reflective on what role you played in your marriage?
Um, yes. Okay. I've been through a lot of therapy. And, um, I know that I was codependent. I was a stay-at-home mom for the last six years. And I kind of lost myself. And I know I played a role in that way that I just felt, um, I was very dependent on him at times for my happiness, instead of finding my happiness somewhere else outside of just him.
I don't think it's necessarily bad to find happiness and to begin to lean on your spouse. I don't think that's codependent. Codependent is when I'm gonna bury myself in order to make sure they're okay. Um, and I, that okay. I was so that I kind of, I just felt like I really let myself go. And, you know, I, but I also think that I, I created that in my mind because I didn't have him telling me out anything else.
That's fair. That's fair. I thought it wasn't good enough for him because he wasn't saying those things. So I think I'm not sure. I'm not 100% sure exactly what I did.
I got so. Let me say it like this. The only way marriage works is if both people go all in. Like, in in a way that's insane. It doesn't make any sense, right? Right. Like, "I am all in on you. This is it." And you got to be all in on me. And when that doesn't work, or it falls apart, often the solution is kind of a misguided definition of codependency. And that, which basically means the next time I'm gonna go one foot in because I always have to keep one foot on the ground. One foot in the boat's fine, but one on the ground to make sure that I'm doing what I need to do so that I can. And I'm here to tell you that's not gonna work. Right. What you have to do is be willing to risk getting hurt this bad again.
Yeah. And I think I am there. Because I, I am the kind of person that, um, I wear my heart on my sleeve. I tell you how I tell them how I feel. You know, I've dated and I've been in a couple, you know, short-lived relationships. And I feel like maybe like, I always question, did I give too much? Did I tell that person too much? Did I, you know, share? I share a lot because I want them to know everything about me and who I am and what I'm willing to give.
So let me tell you this. You probably are a lot. And there is somebody who loves a lot. And so walking away every time that's just that anxiety spinning up on you. I said this, "I shouldn't have laughed like that." "Oh, my gosh, I ate this." "And I should have put my fork down like that." Right? What?
I want you to take full ownership of is I'm freaking Ashley. I've been there. I'm a good mom. I'm raising my daughters. I was married to a cop, which I grew up in that household actually. I know that's a whole different ecosystem, right? Like there's not a lot. And now I'm looking for somebody to just, um, for like, rock on till the wheels fall off. I don't have a good time. And so this is, I'm not playing games anymore. And a lot of the modern dating is set up literally like a video game. It's a game, yeah, right? It's a swipe right, let's meet. I'm gonna give you a thumbs down emoji or no, dude. I'm just gonna tell you, I'm hard on my sleep kind of person. And my promise is that those people are out there who love honesty and directness and somebody that's a little bit, whoa, that's a lot, right? But if you start hedging yourself, you're gonna end up in the same spot again. It's both feet. I think I, I think I did that in the beginning when I first met my husband. I wasn't a lot. I didn't wear my heart on my sleeve. And then when I started to truly become who I was in the marriage, I don't think he liked it. And that's really hard, right? My husband liked a pseudo version of me. But I want to back up and say it again, that was an issue with him, right? Did you give it your all? I did. You gotta let that go. Like, you're still trying to fix it now. Yeah. Can't fix it. It's over. What you can't do is build something else that's rad. Yeah. There. Yep. Do you want rad? What does rad feel like? Um, laughter. I'm not very, I love to laugh. I love to be funny. I love to be on adventures. I'm very athletic, so I just love to be out trying new things. I'm spontaneous. That's what I want. I promise you there's guys listening to this looking at their wives now going, oh geez, how do I get in contact with Ashley? Okay, what you just laid out is a dream. It's awesome. Okay. And if you had laid out, I just, I'm kind of boring and I'm a nerd. I like to read books and go to bed at nine o'clock and I don't, I like just being stable. There's some guy listening going, yeah, yes. Right, right. It's when you feel yourself, um, gosh, I'm trying to think, uh, something extraordinary. And it's on the internet somewhere that Brene Brown talked about, but about belonging is devastating. It when a person or as a person begins to look around and say, okay, what do these people need from me so that I can be included, right? And that's dangerous. Maybe the word's not belonging, but that's the sentiment. When you start hiding parts of yourself so that maybe they'll ask me out again, that thing's already, that thing's already sunk, man, right? Somebody's gonna love the dance you do when the tacos are delicious. Okay. They are. They just don't. Yep. Fair. Yep. All right, hang on the line. I'm gonna send you a copy of uh, building an unanxious life and I want you to read all the way through it and do all the exercises in the back. You're, here's what you are. You are rebuilding. You're rebuilding something. You're rebuilding how you think of yourself. You're rebuilding your day-to-day. You're rebuilding what a home looks like. You're grieving what you thought this thing was going to look like and now it's different. You're rebuilding everything. And as any building project goes, you always are like, all right, I'm gonna get the foundation down on Monday. No, you're not. It's gonna take like seven days or 14 days or 22 days because it rained one day. It's just gonna take a while. That's okay. It's all right. It's never forgetting. I'm not. There may be parts of me I gotta change. Cool. But my core essence, the core person who I am, dude, I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna put a lid on that just to try to get temporary approval because that always, always ends at chaos and ash. And you, my friend, are worth more than that. It's awesome. Thank you for calling. You're, you're, you're a brave woman, Ashley. We'll be right back.
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Hey, what's up? Dr. John Deloney here. Check it out. My new book, building a non-anxious life, is now available for pre-order. Here's the great news. Anxiety is not the enemy we've been led to believe. I know this because I've walked alongside countless folks over the last two decades and I've struggled with this too. If you create a life of intentionally living out the six daily choices I've outlined in this book, you're gonna be able to better respond to whatever life throws at you. You're going to learn the choices you can make day by day to create a more peaceful, joyful, less chronically stressed, non-anxious life. Plus, when you pre-order my book, I want to give you something to help you today. That's why you'll instantly get my newest talk, smoke, fire, and freedom, that I gave to several thousand folks a few months ago, where I break down the misunderstandings and myths we believe about anxiety, how to reclaim your freedom, and how to build a non-anxious life. So pre-order building a non-anxious life today for just 20 bucks at John Deloney.com.
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All right, as we wrap up today's show, literally my, uh, my friends loved Poison. And I've come around. They're, they're definitely one of my, one of my greats. But my band was Tesla, not the car, the rock band. And if you don't know Tesla, what are you doing with your life? But they came out with a great record called The Five Man Acoustical Jam that changed my life. And in so many ways, I should probably do a whole show on that record one day. And on that song, on that record, I was introduced to a song called Love Song. And it was on another record, but man, goes like this. So you think that it's over, that your love has finally reached the end? Anytime you call night or day, I'll be right there for you if you need a friend. It's gonna take a little time, time is sure to mend your broken heart. But don't you even worry, pretty darling, because I know you'll find love again. Love is all around you. It's knocking outside your door, waiting for you as a love made just for two. Keep an open heart, you'll find love again. I know what a great tune. Love you guys. Stay in school. Bye.