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So, here's the story and and we've talked about Russell Wilson before. He's been was a frequent guest on this show for many, many, many uh years, many many times. Uh mostly when he was in Seattle, but he's fallen off when he went to Denver.
Now, the the numbers in Denver weren't terrible. I think his last year there was 26 touchdowns, eight interceptions. There's a lot of quarterbacks who would sign up for that. A lot of teams who would sign up for that. But given what they gave up to get him, Russ was not going to live up to that. And the contract that he signed, he was not going to live up to that. And you had Shawn Peyton who did not want Russell Wilson. He got, you know, to Pittsburgh. He got them to the playoffs, but, you know, they were going to move on from him because they had inside track with Aaron Rogers.
It's just he has not been the right guy at the right time where he was in Seattle and he was there rookie contract, third round pick. Uh Pete Carol saw enough in him that he said, "Hey, you're going to be my starter." You had a veteran team certainly defensively. You had a couple of offensive weapons, certainly Marshawn Lynch, you had a couple of really good offensive linemen there. And Russ did what you would want your quarterback to do in that situation, not lose games. Occasionally have some magic there. You won a Super Bowl, nearly won another Super Bowl, and he's gone to 10 Pro Bowls.
Now, you can say, was he an alternate last year for the Pro Bowl? Now, I don't know when's the last time he was a Pro Bowl quarterback, if we could check on that. >> Yeah, a true Pro Bowl quarterback 2021 in Seattle. He was an alternate last year. Last year, he had 16 touchdowns and five picks. >> Okay. The Pro Bowl is not what it once was, but that's only been over the last couple of years. Let's say Russ has nine legitimate Pro Bowls. Okay, nine in Seattle, nine in like 11 years, something like that. That's pretty impressive. And you won a Super Bowl. I think because he is viewed as losing a Super Bowl. He threw the pass, you lost a Super Bowl, that brings him down a notch. He did more for Seattle that year than Payton did the year in Denver when they won a Super Bowl. But Payton's given credit for two Super Bowls there.
Last night, Tony Gonzalez was asked by Carissa Thompson about Russell Wilson. >> Do you think we've seen the last of Russell Wilson? >> Honestly, I hope we have. And and I say that because I just looking at him and his career, his legacy, like you talked about, if ever there was somebody who played himself out of a Hall of Fame, it's Russell Wilson. And I say that because look at what he's what's happened ever since he left Seattle. When he was in Seattle, he was the man. He was making these good plays. He won a Super, went to two of them. But as soon as he left there, he went to Denver, signed that big old deal. They paid him $39 million to leave. He goes to Pittsburgh, plays there one year. He's out of there. Now he goes here and has three games. I just don't know if it's going to get any better and I don't want to see him on a sideline holding a clipboard.
>> Okay. Um here is Richard Sherman, former teammate of Russell Wilson. >> I think you got to judge his career off when the Legend of Boom was there. He had a legendary defense, an all-time defense, and how much success he had. And then without that legendary defense, the success he had without that legendary defense, he's been [music] 4 and 11, 7 and 8, 0 and three to start with the Giants. Like that's he was a winning football player in Seattle and people said hey winning is football player all this good stuff all these accolades and now you get to go on your own and you get to prove hey I'm this great quarterback I'm this guy that's going to be dominant and it just hasn't worked out that way.
>> Okay, this is revisionist history. The Legion of Boom went away when Russ was 27. You can you can point towards the last three years. How about we be fair to what he did in Seattle because that's what this is out and once you're in, aren't you in in the Hall of Fame? Unless there's a scandal, it doesn't feel like you're going to play your way out of it. Now, have I brought up this question? Absolutely. To be fair to the topic, I have said, is he playing his way out of it? My job is to ask the question. Your opinion could be of course not. But I think you got to be careful with what Russ did in Seattle after the Legion of Boom. And because of Russ's contract, you were able to keep players a little bit longer because he was on that rookie deal.
Yeah, Paulie, >> you're exactly right on the defense in Seattle when Russ was there. Russell Wilson's first five years in Seattle, they had a top three defense every year. His last five years in Seattle, they didn't have a top 10 defense in any of those seasons. >> Yeah, >> there's two different eras. >> But I think you got to be fair to him, and I don't think people are. Now, is he different? Is he odd? Yes. But he was still great in Seattle. He did what you want a quarterback to do. What do you need me to do now? How many times did we watch a Seattle game and the score would be like 17-15 and then Pete Carol would go, I don't know, Russ, pull this out. And he would. He had that one pass. That one pass. It it it's And and once again, the pass was on the numbers. You know, you just had Malcolm Butler who made an un one of the greatest plays in Super Bowl history, football history. Yes.
Marvin, >> did we consider Russell Wilson a first ballot Hall of Famer at the end of his reign in Seattle? >> No. But there are quarterbacks who have put up less numbers than him. Eli's regular season is not good at all. It is is average. His record is 500. That's average. He won two incredible Super Bowls. He was MVP, even though on one of those the defensive line should have been MVP, but he got two of those and had two incredible runs. We're trying to bring Eli into the Russell conversation or vice versa. Eli stands on his own. It shouldn't be about Russell Wilson and Russ shouldn't be about Eli Manning, but that's it feels like that's that's the conversation now. Yes.
>> Yeah. Because if that pick doesn't happen, they're the exact same. >> Well, no. Russ is a would be considered a in my opinion far better quarterback than Eli. >> Yeah, but if Russ has that second ring, then he's in. No question. Absolutely. >> And that's the comparison. >> Eli getting that second ring and beating the Patriots, that gets him in for sure. No problem. And Eli made the Pro Bowl four times and he led the league in interceptions a couple of times. Uh three times. Um I mean I don't have any problem with Eli being a Hall of Famer. He's going to be uh you know his name you beat Bellich and Brady twice. Okay. Played a long time. He was durable. He played in over 200 consecutive games. But Russ is a Hall of Famer. I I know he's tailed off here. He's playing for a bad team. Pittsburgh, they went to the playoffs. Denver, that was bad move by Denver. And Shawn Peyton quickly realized that.
Yeah, Paulie. The comp on this is almost like an actor. Like a guy like Liam Neeson was once considered one of the top actors in the world and like he was in the most serious movies. He was he won awards. Then he kind of changed directions at the end of the career and it was different. It's it's not the same stuff. It's like just because an actor or even a musician changes what they do in the back half of their career. It doesn't take away from the first half. And it's almost like these guys last night were looking through the lens of Russell Wilson as a giant and they can't see the past the 10 years in Seattle.
>> Yeah. And I mean there's different comps here if you're trying to do that. I mean, is he a Ben Rothlisberger kind of quarterback here? Rothlisberger was carried to that first Super Bowl. Jerome Bettis and Hines Ward have talked about that how he was scared to death in that first Super Bowl, but you know, he put up great numbers here. Yes.
Heaton. I think it's tough to ask a former teammate who played on the defense to be impartial about certain conversations cuz in his mind, I mean, Russ uh uh Richard Sherman's reaction to that interception is almost as famous as the play itself. >> Yeah. >> Right. And he's like, "No, man. Cuz if it wasn't for that dude, we would have won. >> The defense is what carried us all these years. We're the ones that did this." >> And the whole story the whole time was Yeah. Legion of Booms, whatever. But no, let Russ cook. What about Russ, man? We got Take the training wheels off Russ. Let him go do what he think. And meanwhile, you know, people like Richard Sherman are like, "No, dude. Like, we carried that dude." I kind of I think it's difficult to ask people who are in the situation to not have an opinion, a strong opinion about it. Be fair.
>> Rich, the Legion of Boom has gotten a ton of credit. A ton of credit. Nobody is bypassing them and saying they weren't impactful. one of the great secondaries we have ever seen in the NFL. So, they they've gotten their flowers here. And you got Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman who probably Hall of Famers. Cam Chancellor was wonderful. I I just Here's the last five years in Seattle for Russell Wilson. Touchdowns and interceptions. 34 and 11, 35-7, 31-5, 40 and 13, and 25 and six. Only Aaron Rodgers was better over that period. Touchdown to interception ratio. I I think you look at today and you're not being fair to what Russ was without the Legion of Boom because the Legion of Boom wasn't there after he was 27. He's 36 now.
Yes, Mark. >> Going back to Rothlisberger, the same point that you made with Eli. Ben Rothlisberger became a Hall of Famer because of an unbelievable Super Bowl against the Cardinals. And I think that's the big distinction is the one Super Bowl versus the two Super Bowls with Eli and Ben. >> But nobody says, "Boy, the Steelers had an unbelievable defense." >> I mean, right. >> And James Harrison had one of the best defensive plays ever. >> Yes, James Harrison's interception at the end of the first half. But I think Ben Rothlisberger had that unbelievable pass that how many people could make. >> Okay. He had an unbelievable pass. That was an unbelievable two-minute drill. Absolutely. I mean, Ben's a Hall of Famer. I just um I'm surprised that, you know, the tail end. What if Russ started his career right now the way he's ending it and then flipped it around?
>> He's in like Matthew Stafford. >> Yes. We're like, "Oh my god, this guy's unbelievable." But we look at the tail end. I mean, you know, when we see Willie Mays falling down in center field as a Met. Well, yeah. Do I remember it? Yes. But I also remember might have been the greatest talent I ever saw on a baseball field.
Yeah, Paulie. >> The two years that Ben Rothlisberger won a Super Bowl with the Steelers, they had the third ranked defense in the league and the first ranked defense in the league. >> Yeah, but nobody brings that up. >> No context. >> No. And that that's that's all I I think Richard needs to at least say, "Hey, I don't have the best relationship with Russ. Maybe I can't be impartial here." Uh Tony Gonzalez can say whatever he wants. I mean, these are their opinions and they played the game and and you know, uh you had Richard who played with Russ. I understand that. Let's just remember the numbers here and how the team performed.
Yes, Eaton. If you look at say like 2012, the Seahawks averaged about 25 points a game on offense and gave up 15 points. >> If you go 10 years later, uh well, not quite 10 years later, but if you go to say 2019, they were averaging 25 points a game still on offense, but giving up 25 points a game on defense. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's like the whole story. Just based on that, to me, Russell Wilson and that offense stayed exactly the same through his entire tenure there. The only difference was the defense started giving up too many points for him to overcome.
Yeah, Paulie, >> if you go back to the Super Bowl, Patriots versus Seattle, the luminaries that Russell Wilson was throwing to, Chris Matthews, Ricardo Lockette, uh Jermaine Kearse, Doug Baldwin, and Bryan Walters. >> Yeah. >> And uh Gronk and Edelman were on the other side. >> And Brady. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Maybe you heard of them. >> Yeah. It's an interesting topic. I I just think it's easy to dismiss Russ now. um and forget about what he did.