Kobe Bryant’s Last Great Interview

So, at 13 years old, I had a kill list. I got to hunt them down. Now you got a problem, right? I don't think I'm—as I said this before—seriously, seriously, this is gonna be fun.

Michael, in particular, became my big brother. The greatest of all time. But we call him Black Jesus. You're not intimidating me. We're gonna go at it. It's crazy. Yeah, man, you're about to take your shot, and all of a sudden, boom, the kiss of death. You know, my back was really spasming. How the hell do you tolerate that kind of pain? I play games with the flu. I play games with a 102-degree fever, man. Power. They all thought I was absolutely crazy the day Mia shag on the fist fight spike. Oh yeah, that's why I'm not backing down. Listen, dude, you got thrown me to Boston, man. [ __ ] That getting off the rebound if I miss, broke you. Tell them this: it doesn't bother you. I'm finding what the hell do you want me to do? Got it. [Applause] [Music]

Here's to tonight's speaker. Is you ready? Before I introduce him, I want to tell you what some of his accomplishments are. Hey, I got to tell you some of the things he's done. After the first one, you're gonna know who it is, and if you're jacked up about it, I want you to holler and bring this building down. You ready? Let me say who it is first. First sentence ready? You got your lives on you? Ready? He is the greatest Laker of all time. Five-time champion. The only guard to play with one team for 20 years. [Applause] More 40-point games than LeBron and Kady. Let me just say this guy's more 40-point games than LeBron James and Kevin Durant. More 50-point games—more 50-point games than LeBron, Kevin Durant, and Steph Curry combined—and more 60-point games than LeBron James and Michael Jordan combined. Give it up to the one, the only Kobe Bryant. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] Bear. All right. Now, this is this is a company, this is the cop business to come. It's awesome, wonderful. So, you know, I gotta tell you guys, I gotta tell you guys, thank you. Thank you. So, we got to try to get through this interview in 60 minutes. So, you know, it's it's it's one of the things a lot of you guys don't know. Let me get your attention. Let me get your attention. Settle down. Settle. You can stay where you are, but just settle down. Just don't make a lot of noise so we can enjoy the interview. I get it, little balance. So, you know, one of the things most you guys don't know, we were in the back. Mario was asking me a question. Mario asked me a question. He says, "What do you think about when you think about Kobe?" And I said, "The first thing that comes to my mind is my dad." He says, "Why your dad?" I said, "Because, you know, he's born August 23rd, '78. Yeah, I'm October 18th, '78." So you're sick. Then I have seven weeks older than me. So, when he came to the lake, up in a die-hard Laker fan since, you know, 1990 when I came to the States from Iran, and I never forget this, we would sit down, watch the game together. My dad and I would watch you play, and one day, Lakers are playing against 76ers, and it's Game one. If you know my dad, you know he's a lot of heart attacks. We're watching Game one, Iverson history over uh, right? Yeah, game ends. They wouldn't get it. First game, my dad gets up. My dad says, "Patrick, take me to the hospital." We went straight to the hospital because it was hard. So, that's how much we go back, grow up. It was amazing doing what you did for one organization for twenty years. But you know, before we get into it, before we get into it, and kind of talk about what you're working on today and some of the mental toughness stuff here, if I was in high school with you, if I was in high school with you, yeah, outside of your game, mm-hmm, outside you playing ball, who was Kobe Bryant as an individual and personality in high school? We were in high school together much the same that I am now, actually, which is extremely curious. Extremely curious. I had a great teacher in high school, name is Jane Mastriano. Well, I'm still I'm still very close to, and she sparked my curiosity in writing. And the reason why I felt it was important at the time was not for the writing sake or not for storytelling purposes, but there are things in story, inherently in story, that can help me be a better basketball player, be a better teammate, a better leader, understand emotions better. So that's why I got into it. It's a storytelling Ashley. So it's just insanely curious, man, and you know, trivial things weren't gonna pull my attention. It had to be sayings weren't gonna pull my attention. It had to be things that were I had a purpose. I want it to be one of the best basketball players to ever play, and anything else that was outside of that lane, I didn't have time for. At what age did that goal become crystal clear? Down there, I made that deal with myself at 13 years old. At 13 years, 13 years old, I made clear about it, crystal clear. And what did inspiration come from? The love of the game. The love of the game, the challenge. Like, I would watch Magic play, I'd watch Michael play, and I would see them do these unbelievable things, and I'd say, "You know, can I get to that level?" Oh, no, but let's find out. Let's find out. And so that curiosity to see where I could push this thing led me down that path. I think led you down that path. I think so. Now, were you were you always competitive from the day you were born? You were super competitive. Competitive with things that I I participate in. So I like I'll put it to you this way, slight, you know, Michael is competitive in all things, things that don't make sense, right? Ain't pong? Yeah, yeah. You know, you know I'm saying. So like he would try to get me to play golf all the time. Mike, I know about you. I've written books, report about you and like elementary school, like I know you started playing golf when you were in Carolina. So that means if I'm doing the math, you've been playing golf like a hundred years. I have not picked up a golf club ever. Ever. The last thing you're going to do is give me on a golf course and annihilate me. Not gonna do it. You've never picked up a golf? No, I did it one time, and I was hitting like 400-yard grounders. Grounders. And so it got my competitiveness going, like I gotta learn this game. But then I broke my finger during that year, and then I couldn't play much, and I was it. So, so the one thing when I see with you and I think about like brain and I think focus, like you know how so many different things brain can get distracted on, and I'm gonna put focus on this and focus on this and focus on this. Do you think one of the edge you had over everybody else was the biggest percentage of your focus was on one thing? Listen, do you see that way? Like that was my edge over everybody else. I do. At the time, I didn't really understand that, right? So, you know, basketball for me was the most important thing. So everything I saw, whether it was TV shows, whether it was books I read, people I talked to, everything was done to try to learn how to become a better basketball player. Everything. Everything. And so when you have that point of view, then literally the world becomes your library to help you to become better at your craft. The world becomes your library to help you improve your craft. Better your craft. Yes, indeed. So, because you know what, she won the world's giving you exactly the information 100-gram better at it because you know what you're looking for. So would you, when you when you size your peers up, how'd you size your peers up? Like, if your size and people, I'm talking you're 13 years old, your size and peers up, what lens are you looking through your peers? So, at 13 years old, I had a I had a kill list. And so, you know, they used to do these rankings, who Street and Smith basketball rankings, and I was nowhere to be found because I was like six four, scrawny, like 160 pounds soaking wet. So I was like 57 on the list. And so I will look at 56, 55 all the way up to number one, who these players are, with club teams they played for. So when we're going to a you travel circuit, I got to hunt them down, right? And so that became my mission in high school is to check off every other person, all those 56 other names, hunt them down and knock him down. That was it. Had a target on him right off the bat. That was it. Very simple. That's unbelievable. Let me let me ask you this question. You say say I'm one of the guys on that list ahead of you, and we play, what are you doing to get a feel? Is it is your mind like are you asking, let me see if this guy's better than me in this side and this side, and they said are you just going saying I'm gonna kill this guy? Well, it depends what year. So like in that 13 years old, I played the longer game because my game wasn't about being better than you at 13, it was it be better than you when you know the chips are really on on the line. So we played at 13, I was size you up and see what your strengths and weaknesses are. How do you approach the game? Are you silly about it? Are you goofy about it? Are you good at it just because you're bigger and stronger than everybody else, right? Or is there actually thought and skill that you put into it, right? And when I play, I play to my weaknesses. I wouldn't play to my strengths. I play to my weaknesses because when you're playing summer basketball, there's so many games, so there's not a lot of skill work being done. So when are you gonna get better, right? When you're playing in competition situations, you're only playing to your strengths, why? Because you want to win, right? So what I would do, I always work on the things during those games that I was weak at. Left-hand pull-up jump shot, post game, right? So I have a strategy. And so then fast forward to when I'm 17, and my game is completely well-rounded, and that player at 13 that I saw at 13 is still doing the same [ __ ] at 17. Now you got a problem, right? Got a problem. And you cut, and you saw that you got a problem. And by the way, let me ask you, so that's high school. You're going to the league. When you're going into the league, you're going with a lot of guys that were you know, same age, same age, you know, same classes you were going in. Yeah. Will you sizing those guys at the same exact way as you did in high school? I did, but you know, the NBA, it was actually easier because what I found that NBA is a lot of guys played for financial stability, and when they came to the NBA, they got that financial stability. So, therefore, the passion and the work ethic and the obsession, the obsessiveness was gone. So I'm looking at that, I'm like, "Oh my god, it's gonna be like taking candy from a baby." That wonder Mike wins all these [ __ ] championships, this is crazy. You know I'm saying? Like, and then you had the players that had that passion but weren't willing to commit their entire lives to doing that, right? It's a choice. You have other things, your family, you have all these other things that you have to do. The game can't really be your number one priority. And so that's what's looking at that like, ma'am, this is gonna be fun. And amuse, and amuse. You said I knew you couldn't do what I was doing because I was obsessed. I'm paraphrasing. And then you said whether it's friends, relationship, it didn't matter, it was all basketball. Yeah, if the fun buddies with you from high school, if I'm a cousin of yours, what happened to our relationship? How did that gravitate when you went into the league, and you're you're determined to become the greatest? Are you determined to become one the greatest? What happens to our relationship? Always suffers. It does. Stuff. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you understood that you were looking at. Well, yeah. And the people that love you, like friends and family, right? They know that about you. Got it. So they let you be you, and when you reconvene, you know, you pick back up where you left off, but make no mistake about it, everything in between is lost, right? So those long-term relationships, the commitment of time of you know, taking Vega, like I see a lot of players take vacations with other players that are close friends, and I'll just take vacations just to take vacations or just hang out just to hang out. Like I'm not, I never did that. Why? So what? Why didn't you do that? Well, because when I retired, I didn't want to have to say, "I wish I would have done more." I don't want that. You know, okay. So, okay. So you come in, it's it's very powerful what you just said. Some of your peers were in it for the money. So they got the money, okay, great. Buy a house for my mom, dad, wanted that car, get this, get that, have fame, go to different cities, I'm partying, I'm doing all this other stuff. Who are some of the guys that you saw on your watch that weren't just driven by the money? Where there's some names that you looked at and says, "These three guys or as crazy as I am." I do. At the time, I deal with what I've referred to as Goat Mountain. I went to Goat Mountain, and I talked to Magic, Michael, Bird, Hakeem Olajuwon, Jerry West, Oscar Robinson, Bill Russell, you know. So I would talk to them. What did you do? What were your experiences? Michael, in particular, he's become my big brother. It's been my big brother since I first came in the league. And what was that process like? So I went to them, I started understanding the ins and outs of the game and you know how they approach things and their level of detail and obsessiveness, and that's what I did. Why do you think, first let me ask how it felt, but I'm curious to know why you think as well. How do you feel knowing like from the moment you got into the league, the guy at the time, he's the greatest of all time, everybody wants to be like my Gatorade, all this stuff, the level of respect he had for you when he spoke about you was different than everybody else, and you're Nadine 19-year-old kid at that time? Yeah, how did that feel when you heard how we spoke about you? Yeah, it made me feel good, but like what I told him, I was like, "You didn't say anything I didn't already know." So, you know, so like wait, I tell you like when we when I was in high school and I used to work out with the 76ers, I used to ask him, you know, "What's it like the guard Mike?" You know, Mike mean Black Jesus, like what though? Black hoof, but we call him Black Jesus, or you can call him Black Cat. I'm gonna call him [ __ ] Mike. That's his [ __ ] name. So the level of fear that he inspired in others was insane, and I would tell him, I said, "When I face him, we're gonna go at it." This is odd, you don't want to do that. I'm like, "What, man? You don't know me, man." So when we matched up, I think he understood that, and you know, when I was 18, my first year, he got the best of me a bunch of times. I was right there. The next play, you're not intimidating me. I'm not going anywhere. And I think you saw that level of respect. I think he was the same way at 18 years old, and that common bond is what I think you know where our connection was built. Yeah, it was great watching you guys going back and forth, whether it was the all-star game or whether the famous scene where you know you're guarding him, he's in front of you're asking him a question, there's a question, and he same footwork and do this. Yeah, it's just beautiful watching that take place with the two of you guys. How's your relationship today? That was my big brother, man. Like I can't, you know, it's uh, we talk often. You sent each other's Christmas cards every year. And each other Christmas kever year that we have nothing to do with, but yet still, you know, but we're extremely close, man. Extremely, extremely close. That's dream. That's great. Yeah. You know, it's a as a fan, I'm not in your world. Your world is a whole different world. I just see it from a fan, and I just see it from what experts say, but as a fan, I feel that's exactly how would be with you and him because the level of respect from both is reciprocal, and it's great to hear that. Going a little bit past it, you know, you came into the league, you start playing, first year, you get traded for Divac, which we were devastated when we lost Vlade Divac. Hard. Okay, I think he got the sarcasm. Some of you guys who don't know basketball, you missed out, like this, but Kobe show, I mean, I'm like a kid in a candy. So when you show up, like, oh, no more sedale trees. We can nothing against these guys, but we want to entertainment, you know. Yeah. So you show up, and you play, and there was the one game, I think you started getting a little bit more playing time. I think you did seven point, two points again because they won't let you play. The coach was just not putting you in there. Yeah. Second season was like 15. I I bet if you take your first three and you played ecology of twenty five point four, would probably would be a twenty six five, twenty six six top of a number. Yeah, but your first three seasons, then the one game, it's the last game of the season, you play Utah. Yeah, the one where you shoot three air balls at the end. I was like five, and then you hit one at ystem doesn't go in, right? And Moses, not Malone, one of the Malones came and spoke to you. I don't know who was from the Jazz. Well, oh yeah, say something. You were not even paying attention. Shaq was whispering something in your ear. What did Shaq say to you in that moment? I don't even know. You don't remember? No, I won't pay attention. You know, like like it was, you know, like for me, it's maybe it's a little like [ __ ] of me, whatever, but whatever. He was like he was trying to whisper encouraging things. I was like, "I'm [ __ ] fine." Okay. I shot five air balls on national TV in front of millions of people that cost us the series, and I'm 18. I'm fine, dude. How do you get the meant? How does somebody get there mentally with that public humiliation? To some people, Hurst them, and they don't come back because you know there was a player Barbosa. I don't know if you remember aboard course. Remember, of course. He was extremely talented for a quick first step, but they said he wouldn't do well when the spotlight was on him. Yeah. Did you get mentally and emotionally so strong where it doesn't bother you? Well, you know, it's you got to look at the reality of the situation, you know, like for me, it's not you know, you kind of got to get over yourself. I think it's not about you, man. Like, okay, you feel embarrassed, you're not that important, like get over yourself. Yeah, that's where you go, get over yourself, right? Like you're worried about how people may perceive you, and like you're walking around and it's embarrassing because you shot five air balls, get over yourself, right? And then after that, it's okay, well, why did those air balls happen? Got it. High school year before we play 35 games, right? Week in between spaced out, plenty of time to rest. In the NBA is back to back to back to back to back to back to back. I didn't have the legs. So you look at the shot, every shot was on line, every shot was on line, but every shot was short, right? I got to get stronger. I got a train differently. The weight training program that I'm doing, I got a tailor it for an 82-game season, so that when the playoffs come around, my legs are stronger, and that ball gets there. So I look at it with rationale and say, okay, well, the reason why I shot airboats because my legs aren't there. I know I'll make sure they'll be there. That was it. Done. Done. And then what is your process of improvement with your schedule leaving because you know, Phil Jackson gets asked between you and MJ, right? Because he coached both of you guys. So you know, you constantly gets asked that question. He's always gonna pick the first child. He's gonna pick the first child. But I tell you, he said something about you that to me, it's a level of respect that any player can duplicate. What he said about you to me, the level of respect for that is a whole different level. You can't teach big hands, right? Right. You cannot. Right. Right. You cannot teach 49, 48 inch, whatever the vertical leap is, and ya cannot teach that liar, but he said nobody in his history of coaching had your level of work ethic. I mean, you hear so many so many guys tell stories about your work ethic. Yeah. What was really your work ethic like, and for how long did you stay disciplined? Well, I mean, I mean every day, I mean, since 20 years, it was an everyday process and trying to figure out strengths and weaknesses. For example, jumping ability, my vertical was a 40, it wasn't a 46 or 40 45. My hands are big, but they're not massive, right? So you got to figure out ways to strengthen them, so your hands are strong enough to be able to palm a ball and do the things that you needed to do. Quickness, I was quick, we're not insanely quick. I was fast, but not ridiculously fast, right? So I had to rely on skill a lot more. I had to rely on angles a lot more. I had to study the game a lot more. And but I enjoyed it though. So like from the time I was I came, remember when I started watching the game, I studied the game, and it just never changed. Technical question here, how you gonna answer this? Who would Shaq be if he had your work ethic? He'd be the greatest of all time. If Shaq had you'll work, they'd be the greatest of all time. By sure, he he'd be the first to tell you that for sure. I mean, this guy was a force like I have never seen. I mean, it was crazy. You know, a guy that size, generally guys at that size or a little timid, and they don't want to be tall, they don't want to be big man. This dude was, he did not care. He was mean, he was nasty, he was competitive, he was vindictive. I mean, he was. Yeah, I wish he was in a John Wood had [ __ ] 12 rings. He had the work ethic. My god. Yeah. Wayne be close. Wow. And let me ask you, let me ask you this question. By the way, I'm not asking this question to create feud between you and I am you. You don't care sodomy. I mean, Shaq talks it down all the time when I say, "Dude, if your lazy ass in shape," I hear you've seen all the time. Any all right, tell them all the time. I'm asking this question for a different reason. I'm asking this question because look, we we've grown as a company extremely fast. We went from one office with 66 agents to ten thousand nine hundred offices, eight hundred eight and ten thousand nine hundred agents in 49 states and would have fastest growing insurance company now. But I say this, I say it for one reason, and by the way, this message is directed to a lot of you, so hear me out. Very simply, the fanic that you say the work ethic side, your in fact, they say work ethic side, and you say, "Hey, if you would've worked that hard as I did," do you think if he would have had the same level of commitment to the game as you did, you guys would have fewer feuds?

Between each other, yeah, because I listen, I don't I don't deal with people that don't commit at that level but then act as if they do. I don't deal with that. I don't—it's real [ __ ]. I'm the other said so like we we used to get into stuff all the time because it was like, you know, you would say, "Okay, Kobe's not throwing me the ball," and you know, media would take it and run with it, and also stuff and I'm like, "Well, bro, if you were in shape, by the time I run down on the fast break and run back and then run down, you're still coming down the first time, bro. Like, what the hell do you want me to do?" Right? So a lot of our contention came from that, came from that. And even though he was older, you were still fit, confronting him, you didn't you didn't kill—I didn't care.

Manly one bro from day one, I knew for sure. Rick Fox, my teammates, they all thought I was absolutely crazy. The day Mia and Shaq got in a fistfight, after that day they were like, "Okay, Kobe, you're certifiable. Let's fight." Oh yeah, I'm not backing down. Listen, either you want to whip my ass or I'm—we want to have a knife fight, but you know, hey, no way. You know, there's a there's a level of respect. And for Shaq, to, by the way, now I know he's told me that that day was a big turning point for him because it was like, you know, he's generally used to talking trash and saying what he wants and nobody really stepping up and challenging him on that. And when he saw me challenge him on that, he was like, "This kid's crazy. Alright, I can win with that," you know. And so that was kind of the beginning of our relationship. I think that's probably never happened to him. That's probably not something that's common to him.

No, it's awesome. Salsa, Terry, years old or something, right? It was all—this is all coming back to me right now. This is also a game in Phoenix, my first year. We were playing, he kept posting up, but they couldn't find him, so he kept going to freeze a lot, kept missing him. And so he throws the ball out to me. I'm not throwing that [ __ ] back in there. Oh, I kept shooting him, right? So we get the timeout, he's like, "Hey, uh, hey, I'm open." Like, "Okay." So if we go out and same thing, coming, "Hey, I'm open." Okay, okay. Come again. "Hey, dude, you gotta throw me the ball, man. [ __ ] that, get it off the rebound if I miss, bro." You told them this first. You're 18 years old, man. 18 years old. I must have been out of my damn mind.

So did you have guys you went to outside of the players like when you come in to figure out a way to improve your your game? We had Billy Beane here a couple days ago, and I don't know if you know Billy Beane is—if you seen the movie *Moneyball*, he's—worse Billy Beane. So he talked a lot about predictive analytics. He talked about the fact that the year *Moneyball* came out, that your prior to that they paid players and looked at on-base percentage as eight stats and the year *Moneyball* came out, all the scouts started making on-base percentage number one as a recruit aful, right? Did you have ways to improve your game by looking at data, looking at conditioning? What were some of the factors you looked at on how to improve your game season after season? The game itself was—it's a it's a complicated answer. So there there are very tactical things in terms of footwork and geometry of the court. So you're looking at the court and looking at the 45-degree angle is that the court is is shaped in and how it needs to operate. That's one component to it. So looking at spots on the floor where you can increase your efficiency, right? You can be on the wing, but there's a certain spot on the wing that improves your angle to drive to the basket, right? So that's sort of stuff, footwork of the opposition, looking at the emotion of the opposition, their tendencies, their weaknesses and all that stuff, understanding the momentum of the game, how to create momentum shifts, where momentum shifts come from, all this sort of stuff. And then studying outside of that, right? Looking at different industries, looking at conductors, looking at writers, looking at actors and how they get into character and then how they keep themselves in that mental space. So looking at different different industries, looking at nature itself, learning from that and how you can incorporate that into the game. Man, it's—it was a lot of studying.

What's your process for making a decision? Do you have a flow of how you go through making a decision? Depends on the decision. Depends on the decision. If we're talking about, you know, a basketball decision, we're read a certain coverage or something like that, and a lot of that comes from the the pre-work, pre-work and understanding what their defensive packages and how to put teammates in certain situations. So, for example, if you look at players nowadays that are charged with taking game-winning shots or making game-winning decisions and you look at the play and then you look and say, "Okay, well, that shooter was there, the double-team came and you know, the player can do anything but pass the ball," right? Well, that's because they didn't do the pre-work, right? So we do the pre-work, you understand, "Okay, this team in a situation likes to run a double-team from this particular angle," all right? So I'm gonna clear that side out, force the double-team to come from a different angle, move myself to a space on the floor where it's gonna take a long time for the double-team to come, and now I can circumvent the double-team and get to a place on the floor where I can knock down a shot, to get to the basket. So it's it's all pre-work.

The decision—when I say decision, how was a—if you're looking at somebody that you were sizing up or if you're looking at somebody to go into business with, if you're looking at a big investment you got to make, what is the decision-making process there? Do you call—is their first—you do your own research, you take this much time, you call an advisor, reserve—is there a system? You know, it's pretty pretty simple for me. If it sits—do you understand the business? Is it a business that you can help in some form of fashion? Whether the barriers to entry to that business and then the entrepreneurs themselves, the company that itself, do they have a culture that you believe is sustainable? Are these leaders people that you believe in? Are they people that are obsessive, and in turn have they created a culture of obsessiveness? So I tend to look at those four factors, and that's it. That's that's big right there, by the way. I don't know if you guys caught that right there, that's pretty massive right there.

Earlier you said, "I'm probably not gonna get this right," a 16-year-old, a 13 or 11-year-old? Yeah, 13, 16, 13, 2 & 1, that's a month. 1, that's a month, by the way, right? One, that's a month. All girls, all girls. 4, 4, 4. So 16 means you're in your fifth, sixth year, 60 or having a baby? Yes, it's something like that, right? Give or take. What was the conversation like with your wife to say, "Listen, this is the schedule," because look, you know, some entrepreneurs, they're coming home at night and late. "Oh my gosh, my wife is upset because I came home at 7:30. Oh my goodness, what a sacrifice I'm making," you know? This wipes—you know, I don't know if I can do this. Sure, you're on the road nine months out of the year. If you play, you want to gold medal, so you're doing that on the off-season, are you trying to get that part going and training for, doing your camps? What is the conversation like with your wife and kids to say, "Listen, this is what I'm doing"? How did that conversation go?

Well, what the kids—is different. So like, the communication would be with our children is, "Pop's is working hard. This is the level of attention to detail you need to have in everything you do." So it's it's setting the example. Same thing with my wife. My wife's a stay-at-home wife. It's the hardest job, man. So she works really hard at that. I mean, it's, you know, and so her attention to detail with that as well, or examples for our children. And then for my wife, it's, you know, she's as competitive as I am. She's just like, "Listen, man, if you're gonna be out here training eight hours a day, if you're gonna spend nine months out of the year away from the family, you better [ __ ] win the championship. Go ahead. Okay, what are we doing this for? What are we doing up? What are we doing?" Love that, you know. But it's a balancing act, and that's the thing that's important is understanding that we have to have so much energy because for like Natalia and Gianna, when they were babies, especially—not Thalia because it was during prime years—and I go to practice and I train and play the game and I come home and I'd be sore and I'd be tired and she wants to go swimming and she wants me to take her to the park, she wants to just jump on my back or whatever the case may be, you can't say, "I'm too tired, I'm going to lay down." Mmm, that's not fair. She doesn't know what the hell is going on, right? And if this was a game, you'd suck it up and play. I play games with the flu, I play games with 102-degree fever, man. I can't do that. Hey, all-powerful, you gotta be on, man. That's—they—that you guys—would you would you sit at the—because you you're obviously very detailed, your show—I mean, you're very very detailed guide—would you guys have a meeting like, "I sit in—it's okay if I'm cold. I'm thinking like, Kobe"—let's just say Kobe's trying to schedule out his—your season is about to start—would you sit with her and say, "Okay, babe, this is the schedule next 12 months. Tell me about birthdays. Tell me about this." Yeah, is that is that what you guys do?

Yeah, I look at it and say, "Okay, birthdays, what am I missing? Valentine's Day, Halloween, Christmas, you know, Easter," like all that fun stuff. I look at the schedule and see what I'm there for, what I'm not there for. Christmas is in a road game or a home game this year, and then we make a family decision, family travel. Do I come back? Like, sometimes I fly back, like I'd play a game and to not miss my daughter's birthday, I'd fly back, be there for a birthday, and then fly back with the team, yeah, just to make sure I don't miss anything. Respect. What's the least amount of sleep you played a game on? No, there's a story where it's like, you know, no one knows about what you went and played a game and it was so insane for whatever reasons. No sleep, you played a game? Games really seriously, it's like, you know, kids, Mitali, I had a certain, you know, health situation, what have you, and you staying up all night and then you got to go out and perform because fans don't know, teammates don't know, nor do they care, nor should they, that you've been up all night. You got to perform, right? And so you just got—it's got to go to work, man. Respect that. That's respect. And and I think one of the things for some, if you follow basketball or not, that you and Mike had in common is that it wasn't, "Say, I'm gonna take eight games off this year to try to stay healthy," you know, like that to you as comic—I like to do that. The hell is that? And I don't know that it is—this crazy seriously, it's crazy. Like, you know, you got a lot of people playing their hard-earned money to come watch you perform. Perform for sure. A job to be in shape, it's your job to be strong enough to perform at that level every single night. And as a competitor, I'm not I'm not ducking [ __ ], like it's not, "Oh my god, my back hurts, I'm sore." We got to play Vince Carter and Toronto Raptors tonight. We actually had this happening. We had a game against Toronto in 2000, and Vince was tearing the league up. Oh, my back was jacked, jacked. But like the perception of that, like, "Blood, Kobe's missing the game against Toronto, Vince Carter, because my back was really spasming," but people will be like, "What? Oh, he's ducking Vince." Excuse me, no, I don't think so. So I would be in the layup line, like, "Okay, there's a lot of days where you know you can rest and recover, today ain't one of them. Your back can bother you any other day, that [ __ ] ain't even bothering me today. We gonna—he gonna have to see me today." Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, he was another one that came in, you thought for sure, you know, he was gonna be where the—and a whole different league when he came, and obviously he just—extract—know what his vertical leap was, 46, 47 out of this world or what he does best, dunker I've ever seen. Insanity. I mean, insanity is why they call him that. So crazy.

You're an alpha, you have a very strong personality, extremely strong personality, and then you got a team with Shaq, and then you got a team with Phil Jackson, and you guys are all working together. How was it taking coaching from an alpha in your alpha and was there a progression of you finally understanding him or him understanding and what did that look like, the relation between you and Phil? No, at first it was rocky, but I didn't understand it was rocky. And let me elaborate. I was extremely naive and with Phil and his genius, his responsibility was to get the team to a place to win titles. It wasn't a piece to appease one player, it wasn't to look out for this player, it was to get the collective whole to win a championship. So he would do whatever it took to make sure that that happened. Hmm. He would see the friction between myself and Shaquille and say, "Okay, how can I use that? Alright, I know Kobe has a passion of play, so come hell or high water, doesn't matter what's going on in his personal life, doesn't matter what's happening here with the team, he's gonna show up and perform no matter what. Shaq is more emotional, if something's going on, he won't. So therefore, I got to figure out how to create a wedge between myself and Cole because then that brings me closer to Shaquille and then that helps me better man in Shaq." So that was his ability to manage the team, which was absolutely brilliant. I should tell him all the time, I said, "Phil, look, I know what you're doing, bro. Like, don't insult my intelligence. I know you're being a dick to me on purpose. Like, just like tell me." "No, no, okay, you don't—stick—stay with it." All right, cool. All right.

How's your relationship tilted? You guys—want fights—like a father-figure, really? Yeah, it feels like a father-figure, man. So when you were hearing all the experts saying what there was in comment, there saying what they were saying about Phil, how were you taking that when they were saying what they were saying about him with when he was at the Knicks? I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny. I told Phil, said, "Phil, I know this is all just Karma for writing literally three books about me. This is your karma." I did tell—this is all in good fun. But I was upset because people don't understand him, and he is a genius in every sense of the word, and how he sees the game, how he sees the spirituality of the game, and people don't understand that, and worse than that, they're intimidated by that. And even worse, they try to discredit that because they do not have the level of passion and obsessiveness, obsessiveness to get to that level. So they figure the best thing to do is to tear that level down. That's [ __ ] up. I'm with you there. Harder percent, by the way. [Music] Obviously had a lot of interesting rituals, you would hear about the yoga, you would hear about all the stuff that we do—he would do. But it's the weirdest thing he did with you in practice that you're like, "What the hell are we doing here?" Yeah, he had a Tai Chi master come to practice, and we walk out there, and you know, the Tai Chi master standing center court and tells us to take our shoes off, take our shoes off, and I'm pissed because I'm I'm ready to like play basketball. He's standing up there and says, "Everybody closes your eyes," and stuff, and he does stuff like monk gazing at the moon and talks about the fingertips and barely touching and the spirituality of all that, and I'm peeking around like, "He's—everybody doing it [ __ ] like going on," and there, you know, big-ass Phil, Phil's there doing it himself. He's like, you know, he's doing this whole like doing all this stuff, you know. I'm like, "Damn, okay, I'm gonna try it." But honestly, it—it—I bought into it. I bought into the meditation, I bought into the deeper connection that exists within the game. And so when you watch our teams or you watch any of Phil's teams or Chicago teams, Game 6 against Utah, you watch our games, you know, Game 7 against Boston, we were never rattled ever because we're always in the moment, always in the present, always extremely calm, always looking at the reality of the situation and not letting our emotions cloud our execution. And that comes from being in a meditative state that you would teach and preach from day one.

What would he take you back—would he take you back—would he take you back and say, "You had a terrible game and it was, you know, the season prior," would he take you back and say, "We're gonna watch this game. It was a worst loss we had. It was absolutely embarrassing for you," to kind of see what things you did to him for? Was he that kind of—was he? No, it was more about fundamentals and improving the game. One, he was very hands-off in the sense of if you allow players to develop, who allow you to find your truth and then go after it, he was there to simply guide you along that journey, which I actually learned from him, and that's how I parent and that's how I coach my daughter's team now. So that's why I say he's a father figure because I've learned so much from him as a coach that I take as a father, as a husband, and as a coach myself. But he was very—he's very observant. Was he a one-on-one better, one-on-one or one-on-few, like one-on-one versus one at 12? Okay, if I'm having a team meeting and I'm talking to guys to rally them or calm him down or it's okay, strategy, where is he very good? One-on-one, just you and him, closed doors? Yes. Great conversationalist, but hated confrontation. He hated direct confrontation. Is not his thing, doesn't do it, never did well with it. Had a lot to do with how he grew up in his, you know, his brother, his siblings and father and so forth. I saw—hates direct confrontation, and he knew that about himself. So that's why a lot of his challenges were indirect. He went to the media with things. So he's very indirect. He would never challenge a player directly, didn't like that.

Yeah, he said one time you guys had a meeting and he sat you down, Shaq down and says, "Listen, I know you guys think you're alpha, I'm a bigger alpha than both of you guys." Did that ever take place? Was not really—not—no. It was more like, you know, he would say it in film sessions, not with me and Shaq, like he never sat me and Shaq down, like him, me and Shaq. He never told—God, no. You kidding? Why wouldn't you—those at the concert—a—I'm sure it'd be a little terrifying for—got it. It—mad at me, Phil. You never seen Phil walk—I mean, Phil, you know, he's got like one good hip, one—like the best day of his life, it's like if some [ __ ] goes down, he is doing nothing to break that up. So I'm so much a little intimidating. But what he would do is he would do things indirect, and it wasn't about calming the waters, it was about stirring up the waters and creating a storm that eventually will lead this broken ship to the shore it was trying to get to in the first place. With you constantly instigating and steering, canessa way—that's what he was doing it. So like, if you ever seen the movie *Moana*, if anybody has kids here, I'm sure you've seen *Moana*, oh right, when she goes out and all of a sudden there's a storm and she loses her mind, thinks everything is lost, and all of a sudden she wakes up and she's right where she was supposed to be. That's Phil. That's a great example. That's a great example.

So we're coming down to the last 15 minutes. I got a list of questions that I'm not gonna get to, but I do want to ask a couple. These is—you're playing against the Golden State Warriors, score is 107-109, you guys are close to getting into the playoffs, you know exactly what happens in the game, you go up, you're about to take your shot, and then all of a sudden, boom, your Achilles happens, right? Friend of mine, Nima, he is here just to listen to—he played ball—and he told me, "Sis, Patrick, I don't think you understand," he says, "When I tore my Achilles in high school, there's four friends of mine dragged—I was crying from there straight to the hospice. It's—I have no clue how the hell this guy did it." He went and hit the free throws and then you walked off the stage. Yeah, you got the surgery back. Yeah. How the hell do you tolerate that kind of pain? You know, I tell this example, and I think this is the best way to explain it. You know, you have a hamstring injury, you pull your hamstring really really badly, you can barely walk, right? Let alone play anything, soccer, basketball, volleyball, whatever it is, can't do anything. Doctor tells you, "Go home, sit up on the couch, rest your hammie, right? Stay off of it, don't get up, no sudden movements." You're at home, all of a sudden a fire breaks out in the home, right? Your kids are upstairs [Music], you know, wife is wherever she may be, you know, as shits going down, all right, I'm willing to bet that you're gonna forget about your hamstring, you're gonna sprint upstairs, you're gonna grab your kids, you'll make sure your wife's good, you're getting out of that house, right? Hamstring be damned, you're not gonna feel your hamstring, right? And the reason is because the lives of your family are more important than the injury of your hamstring. And so when the game is more important than the injury itself, you don't feel that damage, not at that time. So you go to the locker room, you guys had a shot that you know to go into the play, you guys were a team that no one wanted to face, even though there was conflict, you know, maybe if you would have gone round one, who knows, maybe the white would have gone together, he knows, who knows what—what's gonna happen? You were the kind of team that, "Look, it's just a painting about to face these guys." I was hoping you don't make the playoffs, right? I'm sure a lot of people were very happy that you guys didn't make the playoffs that year. But you go into the locker room, and then one of the reporters comes up to you and he says to you, "Kobe, are you convinced that they told you it's probably torn Achilles, they're gonna do an MRI, are you pretty convinced that's what it is?" And your ass and answer is, "Yeah." Then one of the reporters says, "But if anyone is gonna get through this, it's probably you," right? You put your head down and you say, "Oh, man, [ __ ]," right? In your tears, in your eyes. Yeah. Did you say, "Oh, man, [ __ ]," because everybody's expecting me to be invincible, man? Like, freaking, "Let me just play the fan game. I'm a human being." Is that kind of what you were thinking? Or so like the world's expect me to come back in the next month cause I'm Kobe? Like, what were you thinking about all that pressure? I was thinking like, "I don't know if I can do this." The Achilles were like the kiss of—

Death? Yeah. Athletes like, yes. I don't I don't know if I can do this. I don't know. There's so many factors. Is the surgery that has to take place? The surgery has to go well, right? And then just, it's a tendon. I'm not dealing with anything that's muscular—things that I can control. I can't control a tendon, you know? And so I like, no. And then thinking about what that process of recovery is going to look like—it's a long one. Do I want to do that? [__] I don't. I don't know if I only do it. I don't know. So that was the hardest part. You don't know if you want to do it, or you don't know if you are gonna be able to come back from it. Both like, oh no, if I can do it. I don't know if I want to do it without it. Miss it. It's a long process. But like, when I win the trainer's room, my kids are in there, and you know, they're looking at you and stuff, and I'm looking at them and I'm like, you know, "Sorry, dad's gonna be all right. Would be fine. It'll be alright. It'll be alright. It'll be alright." As a parent, you gotta set the example. You gotta set the example. This this is another obstacle. This obstacle cannot define me. It's not going to [__] me. It's not going to be responsible for me stepping away from the game that I love. I'm gonna step away on my own terms. And that's when the decision was made that, you know what, I'm doing it. Doing it.

I noticed a lot of times you go and you talk about like, the even the example you use right now, if your hamstrings are this, your down, your wife's upstairs, your kids—your going to think of my gun—or so did you have a lot of these sinners you will, you use your wife and your kids to use as no excuse. I'm gonna get through this. Was that a mental conversation you had that nobody could hear? Yeah. You got to lead by example. There's parents, you got to lead by example. If you want your kids to do whatever it is they want to accomplish in life, you have to show them. Hmm. You can't. You got to show them. That's what I tried to do. And you're obviously doing that, man, at a whole different level. At alter ego. Let's do alter ego, and I want to kind of go into the story side and how you went into the story telling that you wanna get it. Guys, this guy won an Academy Award. He's a basketball player. How the hell does that make any sense? Right there's a frickin' Academy Award. Right. So, alter ego. Alter ego. You know, sometimes we are so worried about what other people think about us. You know, it's like, "Oh my gosh, what if they think I'm crazy? What if they think I'm over-obsessive or competitive? And what if this is like, you're too much. This is just not healthy for you to be thinking this way." Right. Yeah. How did you get your mindset into this alter ego to be comfortable being black mama? Look, how did that happen?

It's a good separation for me, you know, emotionally, to be able to put myself in a place where at practice or when I'm training or during games, I switched my mind to something else. I switched my mode into something else, right? For me, it's the equivalent of Maximus Decimus Meridius and Gladiator picking up the dirt, smelling dirt—is go time, right? So that was my mental switch. It was like an actor getting ready for a film. You got to put yourself in that cage. When you're in that cage, you are that character. And then when you leave, there is something completely different. When I'm in that cage, bro, don't [__] touch me, don't talk to me, leave me alone. I used to be—certain games, like for like certain key games—I don't think I'm as—I said this before, this kind of makes me seem very psychotic, but whatever. I used to play the Halloween theme song over and over and over in my headphones pregame. Seriously. Seriously. Seriously. And it was important that it was Michael Myers because the mask itself was the void of emotion. Void of emotion. Sure. It has nothing to do with hype, has nothing to do with camaraderie. Stone-cold killer. And I would listen to that song over and over and over again. That's that's when you know you better run, because that's what a lot of people that this probably coming out of, you know, my story. Yeah. So told me you've probably made in this 50-minute conversation, I don't know, 12 metaphors. So typically people that make metaphors, they're storytellers. To them, everything has to paint a picture. And from the day one you're talking on, you were very curious, right?

So when you finish the last game you had, and I'll never forget, we were having a training by the way in Dallas, and we finished it—this was three years ago—and my sister and I get home, it's 12:30. I was hoping I could catch the game. It's your last game, you playing, you Tom. Yeah. And I'm stand-up the entire time. I'm getting the last four minutes, which is the best freaking four minutes. And I see your shacks and go for 50, and then you you're just going, and you're not heading easy shots. These are not easy shots. You hit your last shot, you scored. Sick guys. Nobody has ever had a 60-point game to retire with or happen like, it's insane for this to happen. You hit your 60 points. I gotta say this, my sisters in the room, Kolby, I got tears coming down now watching you when this happens because 20 years I've been following this guy, and I relate to you because in the insurance world, I take a lot of your similarity. You may be in a complete different world. I'm looking at the world here, and it's just like seeing this guy, he's so freakin' determined to say, "I came and gave everything I had, and I'm gonna give it to the last frickin' second." That's what you did. But then you leave and you're like, "No, it's good. I'm cool." You tell your story, you give your message, everybody's flipping out. You're like, "Now Kobe's gonna come back. Now go, Vinny." You're going, are you going to your story telling, all this stuff? How did that disconnect and going into that going, you're still helping out a lot of players, you're always advising Laker, you know, Jeannie calls you, anybody calls, you're helping out, no problem. But how did that just me go from there to all of a sudden now I got to go tell stories? Yeah. Did that happen because I love it? So you know, started for me again in high school when I started learning about storytelling, writing, how to structure a story, how to put together, how to thread together a narrative that has a bigger message, how to create compelling characters, how to take some of the emotions from—not from my own journey—and instill them into characters that inspire or teach the next generation, therefore they can avoid some of the pitfalls and landmines that I had to go through. That's something I'm extremely passionate about. So I loved it. So it wasn't a matter of, "May I got, you know, I got to put this aside. I got to move on to something else." I was excited, and I can't wait to get started. I can't wait to move on and do something else. And everybody kept saying, "Man, like, it—" My wife asked me one time, we were filling out a form for school, and it said, "Father's occupation." She's like, "What am I, what am I supposed to put down? You know, 'Storyteller'? You want me to write 'Storyteller' or your kids' form?" Wow. Yeah. I guess I mean, that's what I'm doing, because dude, really, artifice producer, I don't know, right? But during that year, everybody kept coming up to me and saying, "Okay, you're gonna have stages of grief when you retire. Are you're gonna go into a state of depression when you retire? And those are all normal and also their stuff." And I'm like, "Dude, I'm fine." Yes, of course you would say that. I said that to my two [__] man. And so I have to awhile just start listening, like, "Oh yeah, yeah," you know? And then my competitive competitiveness inside was like, "No, I'm gonna do something in the next 20 years that is better than these last 20. You might not understand that I'm doing that, you know, you know." So the competitiveness kicks in. You gone. Same determination. What's your current work schedule look like today? It's it's uh it's different because I personally am NOT writing every word of the novels. I am not animating the films. What I have to do now is make sure that the people that we bring in—these obsessives that we bring in—are challenging themselves to do the best job that they think they can do. That's what I'm there for—is for them to constantly look in the mirror and self-assess and challenge themselves. If we have a project and you're saying, "Okay, I can do that," that's not the project we want. The projects that say, "I don't know if I can animate that. I don't know how to write that story. I don't know how to do that." Those are the things we want, because through that curiosity, you'll reach a level that you didn't think was possible. And so running the studio, that's what I'm doing. [Applause] Are you a you a big movie guy? Your views okay. So how do you watch movies like, you know, my experience that people watch movies in many different ways. Not everybody watches movies the same way. When you're watching movies, how are you watching a movie?

I watch them multiple times, and I wear different hats every time. So the first time I watch it, I watch it just as a fan for pure entertainment value. Then I watch it from the director's lens and see why he made some of the scissors or she made some of the decisions that she made for the film. And then I look at the lighting. Lighting? Oh yeah, light and assuring the important course. Oh yeah, that. Now listen to the music. And then you can challenge yourself by really understanding the director's point of view. If you watch a film without music and without sound, then you can actually see the film for what it is. So I'll watch it at different different stages. I mean, obviously Academy Awards that you won, the gentlemen you hired for the sound was in a jump. Is it John William? John will do the right. And John Williams is like the goat in his world. Oh, you know, a modern-day Beethoven. Yeah. This guy, I mean, this guy's compose any song right now that you can remember from a film he's done. Superman theme, did that. Indiana Jones, did that. Jaws, did that. Harry Potter, did that. The Olympics theme, did that—I mean, the list goes on and on and on and on. And you know, he's like 85 years old. That's crazy. Yeah, man. Doing the new Star Wars film now. Oh, Star Wars—that part you did that one—yeah. So when you say recruiting and putting a team together with your projects today, who are you recruiting like, you know, if you're putting a basketball team together, Union, GM, president, you know, trainers, all this stuff, assistant, good coach. What do you need right now when you put it for example right now building out an animation house, right? So you got to start with the head of the snake. Yeah. Look at the person that's better understands the type of animation that you want to create, and they have to be obsessives. Have to have a knowledge base, the historical knowledge base, because I love people that understand the history of their industry, ends an ounce of it all. And then you you bring that person into the picture, and then you allow them to do what you brought them in to do. So you leave them alone, kind of like Phil left you guys alone—I'm not gonna hire you to tell you how to do your job. Got it. So recruiting, well, obviously in the league you were known as a great recruiter. So what is your recruiting approach? So if you're sitting down with me, I'm somebody you really want, you really want me on the team, what's your approach to recruit me? You want first place, come play with me. You want a second place, go somewhere else. It's too much fun here. Final thoughts, man. What are we going to see with Kobe next 20 years? What other projects got in mind that you're working on right now? The biggest challenge for us is looking at the entertainment industry and how to diversify it, particularly in animation, but also in writing and and and young wai' a novels, middle-grade novels. How to create more diverse characters? How do we have better representation? How do we create better opportunities, not just an ethnicity, but also gender diversity? I have four girls, right? So my mission is to make sure women have opportunities that they are haven't been afforded. That is my made. I'm the father of four girls, so that is my next obsession—is how do we lead that charge from the front? How do we take an animation industry that lacks in diversity, substantially lacks in diversity? How do we take some of those old animation techniques and teach a whole new generation of animators to come in and create films to inspire the world? And we're getting after it. I think everybody knows crystal clear Kobe is gonna get whatever Kobe wants, man. Brother, appreciate you for coming out, and truly this has been a blast. Maybe some noise. Kobe Bryant. Thank you. I got a gift for you, my doll. I gave him the gift. Thank God. Let me give you this gift. Alright, let me give you this gift. You have it. So first one, I'm gonna give you is this. This is something that you represent, and we have to go get your size, and it's just saying that post-game you are now an entrepreneur, so we're giving you shirts. This right, that's your word. And next one, word you said, script. So we went and got a Star Wars for the Hawaiian script signed by JJ Abrams, man. Space. Oh, that's amazing. I hope roll, wait. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed. Thank you. Thank you. Thankful, coming on then. Thank you. No, thank you for coming out. Thank nabob. Thank everybody. Make those Kobe Bryant. Well. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]