Transcription
[music] This is Steve Zeltzer with Work Week. And the attack on critics of Israel and Zionism has escalated tremendously in the United States, in every college, every educational institution. And one of the incidents that has happened in California is at San Jose State University, where a faculty member, saying hey Gail, has been reporting on some of the struggles going on, was uh targeted and attacked. And she joined us today to talk about what happened to her and the importance of this not only in her case, but what is going on around the country to other faculty members, academics. So, welcome to our show, Sang.
>> Thank you so much, Steve, for having me on your show again. It's great to be here. So, Sang, why don't you talk about this incident that was used by the university to remove you, suspend you, and how that happened?
>> Yeah, so they're going after me for three particular events. Um, and they're saying that I abused my role as the Students for Justice for Palestine faculty adviser. Uh, the irony is, is that none of the three events that I attended were sponsored or co-sponsored or officially sponsored by uh Students for Justice for Palestine. So, literally, I just showed up to my job um and performed my job duties, and they're na trying to nail me for a whole host of crimes, about five cluster of crimes. Um, so let me tell you about the events because I think they're pretty significant.
So, the first one happened when this guy named Blitinger from CSU Long Beach, who had denied a genocide in their local campus paper, was invited to speak by the Jewish studies department, co-sponsored by the English studies department, history department, and our um head of DEI on campus, to talk about a two-state solution and peace. The irony was not beyond me on the fact that this person a genocide and wants to talk about a two-state peace solution. So, um, in my due diligence as a scholar activist on campus, which was what I was hired to do, um, and which for for which I was promoted through all ranks. I'm a full professor. Um, I emailed the history department, the head of DEI, as well as the English department to say, "I think that you should probably um uncouple your co-sponsorship because this guy is not a good egg to talk about the two-state peace solution um and what's happening to Palestine. He's biased um and maybe unhinged." So, it was a very professional letter. Um, and my language is very clean and um they everyone refused to uh desponsor and they stood their ground, which is their choice. I was just trying to give them a warning.
So, I show up to this event and uh it's no longer in the public library. King Library is uniquely public because it's not only S San Jose State University academic public library, but it's also Santa Clara County's public library. So, it's one of those unique libraries that's truly truly public. Um, no signage that the talk has been cancelled. Instead, I I come up and there's a person there redirecting everybody and all they said was, "The talk has been moved to McCra Hall." I mean, um, Sweeney Hall. Okay. So, we all get shuffled and we go to Sweeney Hall. We arrive to the classroom being flanked by police and them telling us that only enrolled students are allowed to watch this lecture because now it's in a private classroom and you have to show ID that you're an enrolled student.
So, I called this at um, you know, I called this my um an academic ambush because basically they took a public talk and privatized it without any signage, without any um discussion. Um, funneled us into a very narrow hallway. You know, there's 60, 50, 60 people there um wanting to hear this talk that were denied by a couple handfuls of police who escalated the situation, didn't treat us nicely. I saw Jonathan Roth, a history professor, allegedly assault a student right in front of me. Um, he had also inappropriately touched me many times, using his back, pressing it up against my chest before he did that. Um, which I think he did to try to get me to push him off my body and claim that I assaulted him. Quite frankly, that's my narrative of why I think he pushed his back into my breast twice. Um, uh, the good thing about him assaulting me in that way, in my opinion, is that I I was able to track him. So, I saw him walking down the hall, taking out his phone, the person trying to block being filmed, and then him grabbing her arm, twisting it in a painful manner. Um, to uh, I I suppose discipline her um from trying to be soft-doxed by him. And it's my understanding that people understood him to be a soft-doxer on campus, a known soft-doxer, I guess.
>> And what is a soft-doxer?
>> So, basically, he, you know, um, I think he uses a social media platform as to uh uh kind of name and shame people who he thinks are anti-Zionist and conflates that with anti-Semitism, um, which is the IH definition that's adopted by the Trump administration and his uh pro-MAGA wrestling corporate head of the Department of Education. So.
>> So, this this is uh basically saying if you're critical of Israel, you're an anti-Semite?
>> Yes, that's that has been Jonathan Roth's claim for many, many, many years, my is my understanding, and I have refuted him on that claim for many, many, many years, um, is my stance. And so, yeah, so I saw this assault and this this student was a Palestinian student. So, I did Title VI him and I reported him to Title VI. Um, so my understanding.
>> What is Title VI?
>> Title VI is the uh federal um protections against uh religious discrimination.
>> I see. Okay. So, then, um, then Jonathan Roth, from my understanding, was immediately pa placed on paid administrative leave and an investigation was opened. Second incident was on May 8th, when an alumni group, um, mostly Muslim, is my understanding, did a sit-in protest on my campus against the genocide. So, I showed up for that because I'm going to show up for anything that's critical of the genocide. And the reason why is because all faculty groups on campus and the administration had refused to call it a genocide. And they still have not called it a genocide. So, my local union, CFA, SJSU, has not used the word genocide. My academic senate at SJSU has not used the word genocide, even though the statewide senate has. And all admins on my campus have never used the word genocide to describe what's happening in Gaza. So, resounding silence across the board on my campus about genocide. So, this alumni group is like, "Hey, sit-in against genocide. Hey, I'm there." Um, they have an open mic. They said anyone can come up and talk. And um, because I was co-chair of the Palestine Arab Muslim Caucus of the California Faculty Association, which is the union that covers the California State University system, I felt obliged to talk about, you know, my personal opinion on the matter.
So, I, you know, first criticized time, place, manor, and I said how it impinged on constitutional rights to free speech, which is true. And then I talked about uh the week that I had uh supporting and helping the San Francisco State students encampment, which was just up the road of the 101 and 280. And what a glorious experience of democracy and action that I got to witness and participated. And then, because I was being watched, I was very careful with my words to the SJSU students. And I used a hypothetical conditional to frame what I said. And I said, "If you're thinking about doing an encampment at SJSU, then it's not too late." I was told later that they opened an investigation on me because of that speech and that they were even going to backdate it to the February 19th Jonathan Roth assaulting the Palestinian student, which is a due process issue because how am I supposed to collect evidence on myself to defend myself two months after when they said I was charged for a backdated event?
And then they did something really crazy. So, this Marie Fuentes um sent me an email saying that I marched the students through the Student Rec Aquatic Center. And I've never been in the Student Rec Aquatic Center in my life. [laughter] So, I don't know where she got her intel. I did a public records access uh uh public records act request to find out and she did not provide the emails to.
>> Who is she?
>> Um, I think she was some kind of like a VP for student affairs.
>> So, she was a a state college official.
>> Yes, she wasn't she was an admin, she was an admin. Yeah. Uh, she wasn't they didn't interview her for the investigation, which I find really interesting. And they didn't call her um as a witness, which I find really interesting.
>> But she provided false accusations against you.
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So,
>> Straight up false accusations. False accusations from top to bottom of the email.
>> So, I felt very comfortable replying, "I categorically deny your accusations." And that's all I gave him at the time because it was like so hilarious. Like, wow. And they even was just like, "At the sit-in, you ordered the students to encamp." And and, you know, thank God the students didn't listen to you. Uh, and they didn't encamp. And I I just wanted to hold my tongue. The only equipment we all came to that day for the sit-in protest was our buttocks. And no, I did not order the students to use their buttocks to sit down on the grass. [laughter] So, it was just amazing display of administrative incompetence in my opinion.
>> Well, actually, I mean, putting something like that out, these should be removed as administrators. They're putting out false information. Uh, basically, uh, I would say that was unethical to put out false information about people, uh, staff at the university. Um, and where did she get this information? How did she get this information?
>> I think she was actually promoted after she sent that email.
>> Oh, I see. So, you put out false information and then the state college officials promote you.
>> She was promoted after she gave me that email. Yes.
So, um, the third incident is obviously the encampment. So, uh, I was not aware that again, my local union, CFA, SJSU, which, you know, has done many questionable things, um, had was one of the early adapters of the interim time, place, manner policy that was released in summer 2024. So, they had agreed through a meet and confer to adopt some draconian time, place, manner policy that banned camping. So, here's the thing. We had a long, multi- over a decadey year tradition on campus called Poverty Under the Stars, where faculty and students encamped to simulate unhousedness and the growing unhoused population in the Bay Area. Even past presidents of SJSU have visited the encampment and encouraged it. So, how the hell was I supposed to know that camping was banned? So, past practice has been that was allowed and that was encouraged even by the administration.
>> Yeah. At the same location, the student Muslim students had their encampment for SJSU, the Smith Carlos Lawn, where they have the Olympic statue, you know, memorizing the historical moment when two Black athletes used the Black Power symbol in order to protest the systemic global racism against Black people in, um, I think it was Mexico City '68.
>> In '68. Olympics, yeah.
>> Yeah, exactly. So, that encampment, Poverty Under the Stars encampment happened there, same as the student encampment happened there. And so, unless we were ordered to get a brain implant ship with the time, place, manner upgrade, there was really no possible reason for me to know why camping was banned. And if it was such a fireable offense, why didn't they put signs up saying, "If you camp, you will be fired"? Like for other things that are that uh uh uh dangerous. [laughter] And and the union officials had actually agreed to these policies without notifying the union membership that they agreed to this?
>> Yes. I was never notified by the union that they had they had agreed to weaponized time, place, manner policies, even before the systemwide interim time and place, manner policies issued by our uh chancellor, Mildred Garcia, happened months later. So, and I'm I'm very ashamed of my local union because, you know, encampments had been used to critique not just poverty on our campus, but there's been whole national movements and international movements where it was used to critique the Vietnam War as well as apartheid in South Africa. And so, for my local union to uh do complicity in advance with our seemingly anti-free speech, possibly pro-Zionist administrators at SJSU and CSU is real shameful to me. And these are the charges they were bringing you up with, charges of a of a policy change that you never even been informed was a new policy at San Jose State University.
>> So, they I I asked for the policy on the first event, the Jonathan Roth assaulting a Palestinian protester event, right? Genocide denier speech where we were herded into a private classroom that we couldn't enter, that ambush. Um, but they told me they didn't have it up because they were still doing meet and confer. They didn't tell me that. I learned about it later. So, I was like, then I don't have the policy. SJSU's logic was, well, we have the interpretation of the policy up and that's good enough. And I was like, "Oh, no, I need the policy, not your interpretation." And the reason why I had that stance is that, you know, I had to go up for a full four times because they gaslit me on policy. So, I don't read their interpretations of policy. I only read the policy. So, they sent me the policy nine days after the assault uh that happened at the genocide denier's quote unquote talk about the two peace two-state peace solution. But at that point, I only skimmed it because it's 16 pages. It's single-spaced and I got the gist, like, "Oh, don't mess with business and commerce on SJSU during operating hours." That's the gist of time, place, manner, right? And then when I showed up to the other two events, the sit-in and the encampment, I was never officially Students for Justice for Palestine faculty adviser because for whatever reasons of their own, SJP refused to co-sponsor these events. I did encourage them to do collaborations and do co-sponsorship with allied groups, but for whatever reason, they didn't want to be an official co-sponsor of the sit-in and they did not want to be official co-sponsor of the encampment, and that's fine. They get to do what they want to do. I just support them. They're the leaders of their group, right? So, I never felt the urge to study TPM for any of these other instances, the second and third instance, because I wasn't an official faculty adviser for SJP.
>> In fact, the only time I ever studied our official time, place, manner was after the interim time, place, manner was issued CSU-wide in the summer of 2024. Then I took a look at it and then I was like, "Holy [ __ ] my local campus banned camping and I was thoroughly pissed at my local union for their complicity in advance."
>> And what did they say when you brought this up in in the union?
>> I don't talk to my local union much.
>> But there was no report to the members that they had a policy that they've agreed on, which would affect the members.
>> Yeah, my local union has been so nasty to me. They even sent like this union-wide message because I participated in open bargaining and I called out uh one of our Eboard members that was leading the academic freedom article of our statewide contract, even though our local union had never issued one message supporting my termination, my job suspension over free speech. So, at an open bargaining session, I questioned why she felt like she was qualified to lead the academic freedom article committee in any way, shape, or form. And in retaliation, they sent a state uh a campus-wide email to union members, not naming me, but saying that I was a liar. So, my local union is a [ __ ] up local union. I'm sorry. My my interactions with them have been pretty horrible. Um, they cosplay like they care about academic freedom. Uh, but they're willing to throw me under the bus every [ __ ] time with administrators and they're just, yeah, it's kind of nuts.
>> And of course, the targeting of you was a targeting of all faculty members who have any criticism of Israel. It really is an attack on on academic freedom and democratic rights to free speech. Yeah, I don't think my local union gets that. If you could you could talk to them that would be great. They maybe if someone outside the union speaks to them, they might have a light bulb moment. But yeah, after I to their credit, after I asked them directly to email their members about my about my hearing, they did eventually do that. So, to their credit.
>> So, the the union leadership was complicit in this these new regulations and then what happened?
>> So, I was on job suspended, paid leave for about a year, and then I found out that Jonathan Roth was put on the fall schedule, which shocked me because there was video evidence. Someone caught him on video with that assault and posted it publicly on social media. Many groups posted that video publicly on social media. So, pretty shocked when I saw him teaching multiple classes at SJSU. Um, and then I think I got my termination papers.
>> So, termination papers without hear without a hearing. So, they invoked Article 19 of the collective bargaining agreement and so they terminated me. And Article 19 allows me to appeal my termination and they offer me three venues to appeal. I can do it contractually behind closed doors. I can go to the personnel board uh which is I think appointed by the governor, or I can do a a public hearing. And I chose the public hearing option because this is a constitutional free speech issue related to academic freedom, tenure, and right of faculty co-governance.
>> And what was the position of the union on exposing this in a public hearing?
>> You know, unfortunately, behind closed doors, they weren't very supportive. Um, I had to, um, co-author and pass a resolution at one of our assemblies saying that we needed an academic freedom article in our contract. I also had to author and argue and pass at another assembly that CFA needed to defend people at their public hearings because they had made up a policy at that point saying that if you choose the public option, that CFA doesn't help you.
>> And CFA, how many employees do they represent at the state California State University?
>> So, my understanding is that California State University has almost 30,000 employees. And they really were not taking up a political campaign, even though their members were being targeted as a result of this campaign.
>> The Zionist.
>> Yes.
>> But luckily, our union's under new leadership. So, when I got terminated, uh, a new president had already stepped in, and she actually gave me a phone call. While the prior president did not and ignored me, she actually gave me a phone call and said, "This termination is uh against everything that we believe in and we have your back." You know, cuz I basically told her, I was like, "I'm going public whether CFA likes it or not. I'm choosing the hearing option whether your legal thinks it's wise or not." Because they were their their legal was basically telling me, "It's so risky, so risky." And I was like, "I don't care. I'm going public." And so, finally, they were able to line up their ducks because I basically told CFA, I was like, "I could defend myself. And I have. I've defended myself and four of the people in these public hearing statutory process. I'm well-knowledge. I have good knowledge of the CBA. I have good knowledge of how these public hearings work, more so than the union because they choose not to do these venues or help people to do do these venues." So, I was in a perfect position to turn to my union. I was like, "I'm going to have an empty seat next to me at this public hearing. You can choose to sit next to me or not, but I highly suggest that you probably sit next to me because this is a historic case and the whole issue of union democracy and the frontal attack on democratic rights, the frontal attack on on critics of Israel being accused of being anti-Semitic, and the failure of of the national unions, AFT, NEA leadership to to launch any kind of national campaign or SEIU. In your you're a member of this union that your CFA is affiliated to, the SEIU. It seems the SEIU with 750,000 members in California should reach out to all their members that this is an attack on all democratic rights if they can go after faculty who are SEIU members at the California State University. I mean, all educators are threatened. All staff are threatened. Okay, so David Huerta might not be happy with me because I did get him get in his face about this when they had um a statewide board meeting. I was able to capture him before he went into the meeting and I told him my thoughts on SEIU staying neutral on on uh AB715. And even though AB715 only relates to K through 12 education and it conflates anti-Zionism criticism with anti-Semitism, it actually greases the skids for that same mechanism to happen in higher ed. And it's an attack on the whole education system, not just K through 12, but also higher ed. So, I got in David Huerta's face because also I'm a border scholar. And I said, "What ICE did to you is what AB715 is going to do to teachers in the classroom." And he didn't enjoy that critique, but my critique was solid.
>> And he had been attacked in Los Angeles by ICE. He was in front of a.
>> Kidnapped by ICE.
>> And uh the SEIU made a national campaign. There were rallies all over the country.
>> Exactly. And I promoted his I promoted his case. I was very pissed. You cannot con you cannot kidnap our union members for your political convenience. They have a right to protest. They have a right to agitate.
>> And this the SEIU of course is tied to the Democratic Party.
>> Yes.
>> And the former head of SEIU 2015, which rep which has over 500,000 members, uh April Verrett is the president of the SEIU. Became the president of the SEIU from 2015. And the SEIU has tremendous power in California.
>> Yes.
>> 750,000 members in California. They could launch a labor party. They could lead a political fight if they wanted to. And that's why it was so important for me because I was under termination at that point to get into David Huerta's face and be like, "I'm being fired and it's because of decisions that you're making like with AB715 and staying neutral that allows me to be fired and I'm I am I am the canary in the coal mine, basically, and you've helped grease the skids for more of me to come." And uh SB715, why don't you talk about specifically what it does and also the role of Scott Weiner and the Zionists in California pushing that in the legislature and Scott Weiner, who says he's for immigrants and is now running for Nancy Pelosi's seat.
>> Who are the people call Scott Weiner in some way, shape, or form? Um, so the reason why I have such problems with Scott Weiner was because early on, he I saw a letter that he sent to the UC Board of Trustees, basically outlining his case for why TPMs need to be upgraded and weaponized in order to stop this quote unquote anti-Semitism that was happening on campus, which he equated with the pro-Palestinian movement against.
>> What are what are TPMs?
>> Time, place, manners are these seemingly innocuous policies that say, you know, business and commerce uh should not be disrupted during operating hours. Um, but what they are actually are um policy traps, basically, to kind of capture students, faculty, staff, or even people who just step on campus in order to police their behavior, particularly around um free speech. So, it's an administrative scheme in shutting down democratic rights and voices.
>> Exactly.
>> The faculty and students and at San Francisco State, which I was at during the San Francisco State strike, Hayakawa, they tried to ban demonstrations, they tried to prevent the students and the faculty who were on strike, actually, from taking democratic rights to speak out and organize.
>> Yeah. But here's the problem with time, place, manner policies. When you have sporting events on campus, people are free to make noise, disrupt, and shut down with their joy, right? But once you have a political protest on campus, then it allows the selective enforcement where people are shut up, possibly brutalized, and possibly silenced. So, this struggle around 715, I know that locals of SEIU uh 1021 and others opposed it and there was struggle.
>> It, yeah, so let me be clear, my union opposed it and we're under as we are SEIU Local 1983.
>> And we opposed it and we we did our best to pressure David Huerta and his board to also oppose it. But my understanding is that despite our best efforts, they stayed neutral. Was there a discussion, democratic discussion with the rank and file about this bill, how it would affect workers?
>> I don't understand the inner workings of SEIU, so I cannot comment on it. I just know the inner workings of my union and I know that we took a strong stance and we said no to SB715.
>> And what is SB715 aimed at doing? Is it going to threaten the elimination of people who speak out and and is that the purpose of it?
>> It's kind of like time, place, manner, like I described, in the sense that it's going to regulate people's speech. So, it's really kind of aimed at this like, "Oh, anti-Semitism is rampant." Uh, but their definition of how it's rampant is that they conflate criticisms of Zionism with anti-Semitism in order in order to say anti-Semitism is rampant. Now, here's the problem with that. AAUP, which is our, you know, who sets the professional standards for higher ed, has strongly come out and said anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism, and that is those conflations are actually an attack on our constitutional rights to free speech and also undermine academic freedom. Now, AAUP covers higher ed. I understand that. But the same same mechanisms for K through 12 also made those same arguments because those are true. And yet the governor still passed AB715, thus basically policing K through 12 classrooms for that particular conflation.
>> And Scott Weiner has never said that there's a genocide going on in in Gaza and Palestine. They refuse to use those words. What does that mean? My campus, my administration's done the same, my union, local union's done the same, as well as that. My academic senate.
>> Why why can't they say the word genocide since most of the world recognizes this is a genocide going on?
>> Uh, Democrats. [laughter] Liberals. So, the Democratic Party is basically the leadership is basically saying, "We're not going to use the word genocide because that raises questions about the relationship of the United States to what Israel is doing." Israel's think Israel is being supported by the United States.
>> I was job suspended with pay under Biden. Let's be clear, not under Trump. I was terminated under Trump, but I was job suspended under Biden. So, they've continued the policy of supporting the genocide and supporting what Israel is doing to the Palestinians.
>> Exactly.
>> Whether Democratic or Republican.
>> Exactly. The people that stay silent are the people that are that like what's happening geopolitically with Israel and their imagined like threshold to power that we maintain through our relationships with Israel and our support with money and arms in the genocide of mostly women and children in Gaza and Palestine.
>> And they're trying to shut down, it appears, any criticism of what the United States is doing in supporting Israel and supporting the genocide? What has been the reaction of faculty and staff and students at the univers at state California State University?
>> Oh my gosh. So, um, the CSU provided personal data to the EEOC in violation of California law, amendment one, that says that, you know, workers have privacy and confidentiality about their personnel data. So, CSUA was offered up as a sacrificial lamb to the feds, the EEOC, who are hunting for anti-Semites. So, that violation has already taken place. Luckily, because we're under new leadership, uh, the CFA has sued and to try to prevent any other campus's personal data to be given up to the EEOC.
>> And Newsom appoints the trustees at the California State University. Who are these trustees of the California State University that appoint the management of these campuses?
>> I think the appointment of the trustees is one of the fundamental problems, or even the existence of the trustees is one of the fundamental problems here because um they seem to be so aligned with the democratic uh money machine that they just do not have any kind of analysis on how this would impact uh faculty tenure, faculty co-governance. Or maybe they do and they're just going for it. You know, part of me thinks that because we're in MAGA-mania right now and because our board of trustees and chancellor are very pro-corporation, that they're seeing their moment of interest convergence where they can kind of take a lot of these MAGA initiatives in order to reconfigure um the California State University in their corporate kind of fantasy.
>> And is there a labor representative, one union representative on the trustees of California?
>> No. And that's the problem. Exactly. You know, we don't have any CFA reps there, you know. So, like, what the hell? These are just people. These are moneyed interests, money people who at the end of the day care about money, money, money, money. And if they can feed an AI initiative to create our future scabs as faculty to replace us in the classrooms, they're going for it. It looks like they are to my.
>> So, Gavin Newsom, who is taking uh $10 million from Google, uh apparently is bringing AI, these uh technofascists who run these AI companies into the California State University. What's And he did that without consulting the union, the the workers. Is that what happened at at CSU?
>> Oh, yeah. So, I remember Bill Gates a few months ago saying that, you know, AI would basically replace the whole education system, K through 12 and higher ed, within 10 years. It feels like Gavin Newsom is thoroughly inspired by that prediction and is going for it. And so, it is our duty as educational workers, as people who are strong in their labor movements, to push push back against this injustice. And this AI, there's mania now. Billions and billions of dollars are going into it. In uh San Francisco, they're building these data centers. Um, I had a did a story on Tucson, Arizona, where Amazon wanted to build a secret data center.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> And in a in a desert community to take their water.
>> Yeah. In Tucson. And I lived in Arizona for 10 years. I can tell you how little water they have. But yet they're going to steal that water to cool down data centers. I just recently got like uh I live in San Francisco. I I recently got from PG&E, which is my energy company, uh announcement of a rate hike. And I seriously wonder if this is related to AI, you know. [laughter] Like.
>> Well, Gavin Newsom also with the support of Scott Weiner and the Democratic legislature uh passed a bill to fund uh Diablo Canyon continuing to operate with our state money, with our utility money, so to keep this nuclear broken-down nuclear facility PG&E running and increasing our bills. So, this massive increase in California.
>> Uh, under Gavin Newsom and who was also attacking solar energy in California.
>> I mean, my nickname for Gaz Gavin Newsom is Blue MAGA, quite [laughter] frankly, you know, I mean, I know people think he's the champion and he pushes back on MAGA so well or whatever, but I don't see I see a lot of collaborations here between what MAGA wants and what Gavin Newsom wants. Well, one of the underlying principles is abusive capitalism, especially towards workers and our planet.
>> And one of the things that's interesting and happening [snorts] in the rise of fascism, and we should talk about that because they have a plan for public education in Project 2025, which is to sanitize it and make public universities like fascist institutions. Was this Proposition 50, uh, which the SEIU and the unions in California spent over $23 million on? They're not mobilizing against fascism and militarization. Military are being brought into cities, but they are going to spend massive amounts of money phone calling on Prop 50. Is Prop 50 going to fight fascism?
>> I mean, there were so many things the Democratic Party could choose to do to resist, but they went for, "If MAGA goes low, we meet them at their low" motto, which does that inspire me? No. Is that brilliant strategy? No.
>> Isn't it plain in the hands?
>> Is that going to help with the stolen elections that are going to happen at the midterms and possibly the next presidency? No. So, it was a d for me. I'm sorry. And my union is totally for Prop 50. And so this is me being my, you know, bracketing my personal opinion here. What a stupid [ __ ] idea and a waste of time and money.
>> It's a diversion, isn't it?
>> Yeah. And we fell for it.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, because in California, they want to bring in the military. They have brought in the military in Los Angeles. They're using ICE. Yeah.
>> I mean, Trump took over the National Guard and then was using National Guard helicopters to chase farm workers.
>> Yeah.
>> Off the fields.
>> Yeah.
>> In California. I would say that's something to organize around. They're terrorizing our workers, our immigrant workers off the fields. So, one of my allies, one of my close allies, by John Caravello, who is also a lecturer at Channel Islands, you know, is now facing federal charges because he showed up to his local community in Ventura County to stop an ICE raid of farm workers, one of which was chased across a building and he jumped off and later died. Undocumented worker. I mean, this is how brutal. This is how menacing and this is how cruel these ICE raids and federalization of these ICE raids are.
>> These are fascist tactics.
>> Absolutely.
>> And yet.
>> And people who are like, "Oh, can we use the word fascism yet? Have we really reached that point yet?" I'm like, "Get your head out of your ass. We're in it right now."
>> I mean, these are what fascists do. No warrants. Grabbing people.
>> Yeah. Having immigrants, whatever their status, citizens, immigrants.
>> Yeah. Trump is not tearing down the East Wing for McDonald's. Trump is tearing down the East Wing for a ballroom because he thoroughly expects to dance in that ballroom with the next term. Let's be real.
>> And the threat of martial law, the threat of a coup. And in in light of what's going on, for example, in Venezuela, where they want to bomb Venezuela and Colombia. Yes.
>> Gunboat diplomacy. It seems like, let's have a war and let's declare martial law. Use the insurrection act to prevent people from protesting against an attack on our brothers and sisters in Venezuela and Colombia.
>> This is not new. We saw the Republican party as well as some of the Democrats making money off of war very long ago, right? Cheney is like a prime example of that kind of stuff. So, now we've progressed. We didn't do much reforms about this, and now we're here in this moment where again, warmongering is going to make money for people, not only politically but personally, and we know that that's happening. So.
>> And the SEIU and the AFL-CIO have a long sordid history of working with the CIA uh and overthrowing governments. In fact, the AFL-CIO was involved in trying to overthrow the government of Venezuela in an attempted coup. They overthrew the AFL-CIO was involved in overthrowing the government of Chile, Allende, in which 10,000 workers were killed uh in Chile, in Argentina, in Brazil. In one country after another, the AFL leadership, Liz Shuler, used to be on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy. Seems they're complicit and colluding with the policies of US imperialism around the world, harming workers, our brothers and sisters in other countries. And this is why the international workers unions are really important because I think a lot of the problems, and this is true for CFA as well, is that we are not educated in solidarity with unions outside the nation. And in actuality, there was many times where, you know, me and others argued, you know, uh for our union to, you know, protest the genocide, and they came. And this is prior leadership, not present leadership. They came with um arguments like, "Oh, our union doesn't get involved in international matters." "Oh, our union doesn't get involved in anything outside of California." Well, let me tell you, if you do not do solidarity work with other unions outside of California or other international unions, particularly of the Global South, then you're just basically signing your death warrant. And isn't this business unionism, this ideology that the issue of uh workers' internationalism, the issue of privatization, the issue of the program of Project 2025 has to be fought politically. You have to educate workers and join with workers in other countries who face privatization of education, which they're pushing throughout the world. These multinationals.
>> Exactly. Which is why when I always, you know, at my mask to publicly speak, you know, I always try to bring it back to the general strike because I think the general strike is going to be really helpful in like, you know, uh shutting down the system that Trump and MAGA need so much in order to fulfill their nefarious plans. And a general strike is something that, you know, if we can pull it off, and I think the Chicago mayor just recently called for a general strike as well. Really powerful speech. I'm not a fan of politicians, but that speech was really particularly good because he really showed the the intersection social justice forces that are at stake in these kind of like ICE raid, military operations, etc., that are taking over cities like Chicago. And his call for a general strike would be a tremendous pushback, would be a tremendous strategic political message with tangible outcomes, equivalent to [ __ ] you. And I thoroughly appreciate that call for a general strike. I think more leaders need to call for a general strike. And I think that unions as well as community groups as well as all people across the left need to organize for a general strike.
>> And Sarah Nelson, who's the president of the airline flight attendants CWA, also called for a general strike on No King's Day. And you know, they're ordering people to fly in a dangerous situation. They're not playing the air traffic controllers uh and TSA workers. And uh yet the AFL-CIO and even AFI are not saying, "Let's shut it all down. You want a shutdown? Let's have a real shutdown. Shut the whole country down." Which of course Trump and the fascists would be terrified of.
>> Because if all the airline workers go out and shut it down.
>> We caning we can shut it down.
>> It is so possible for us to shut this down. So, that is why it's so important for us to keep on chanting, "Shut this down," and call for a general strike. I see it in our distance. I see it on the horizon, and it's heading toward us. It's coming closer. It's within our reach, and we need to organize for it in order to actualize it because that [ __ ] is going to kick people's ass. And it will empower people to the power of democracy, not only on an individual level, but on a collective level. And we can really turn this downward um spiral in history upward, uplifting, empowering democracy.
>> And of course, the last general strike was in 1946 in Oakland. There were several many general strikes. I mean, the Minneapolis strike, the San Francisco general strike in 1934, and the capitalists were terrified of these general strikes. They said, "The communists have taken over. The communists have taken over." The general strike in San Francisco was for a union hiring hall, which they won. But the capitalists were terrified. One of the reasons they were terrified is when you have a general strike, workers who want to join unions, want to join unions, join them, and they organize.
>> Yes.
>> And hundreds of thousands of workers organized in Northern California as a result of the San Francisco general strike. And the capitalists are afraid this mass movement of the working class, a mass working-class movement will organize the Amazon workers, all the workers at Walmart who would like a union, but if there's a general strike, they join unions, and the working class becomes.
>> Yes.
>> A powerful class.
>> Let's note this. You know, Chris Smalls, who was one of the first people to organize an Amazon Union, also got kidnapped by Israel twice on those on those flotillas trying to break the siege.
>> And they beat him up.
>> Exactly. And they beat him up and they brutalized him because he's Black and he's pro-Palestine. So, let's just be clear here. These intersections are already being made by very brave leaders, you know, and so we need to take inspiration from people like Chris Smalls, you know, who sees their um desegregation and and disrespect as an Amazon worker linked with what's happening to Gaza and the people of Palestine because there is a link. There's a very clear link.
>> And the internationalization of the working class. I mean, the multinationals, the capitalists who run this country want to control the world. They have operations all over the world. They pit American workers against Canadian workers against Mexican workers against Chinese workers. The enemy is workers abroad, not the billionaires and multinationals who outsource this country, who de-industrialized the United States for greater profits. I mean, they it wasn't the Chinese that forced them to close factories here, move them to China. It was the drive for their profits that really drove them to to destroy the United States and dismantle the United States now.
>> Yeah. And we're seeing that same trend over again, but a little bit more on transparent display. The way that these billionaire oligarchs are influencing politicians.
>> And the technofascists now who run the US government. Uh, Elon Musk and Peter Thiel, David Sachs in San Francisco, uh, Larry Ellison of Oracle. I mean, they have basically taken over directly the run of the US government. Isn't this fascism? Isn't this what happened in Germany? I mean, I didn't the Pentagon kind of anoint them with military, some kind of like, whatever, you know, like.
>> Their staff were given military positions.
>> Yeah. Right. They gave.
>> They're part of the military.
>> Yeah. Exactly. So, um.
>> Now, I mean, the unions in relationship to the rise of fascism, the SEIU, for example, where are they? Where is the AFL-CIO? I mean, they don't want to mobilize. I know in San Francisco, there were very few labor contingents. The CNA, National Nurses Union, uh, did support the No King's Day rally, but they didn't talk about fascism. And how are you going to stop fascism? Do you think the Democrats will be able to stop fascism?
>> Uh, no, I think the Democrats are thoroughly enured in the uh corrupt system that feeds the money and APEC money and all the other lobbies and stuff. I mean, they just don't know how to exist with all of this lobby money. And.
>> Well, isn't it interesting? California, fourth largest economy in the world. Um, has tremendous wealth, has over 170 billionaires. And yet Newsom and the Democrats are completely silent about making them pay, making the billionaires pay for the cutbacks passed by Trump. They could have a capital tax.
>> Political donation and they [laughter] don't want to cut that off.
>> Exactly. In fact, I understand the SEIU is preparing a bill uh a a a campaign to have a bill in or a uh uh a referendum next year for a capital tax on the billionaires in California. But the state legislature in California has a supermajority. They could convene and say, "We're going to tax the billionaires for the money we're losing because of Trump's budget cuts. Make the billionaires pay." Yet, complete silence.
>> By the Democratic Party. Yet they passed 715. 715 is apparently a priority. But making the billionaires pay for the cutback. I mean, in California, under the Master Plan, it used to be free.
>> To go to the state university. I was paying $72 a semester.
>> I hear those stories a lot.
>> And yet kids are going into into debt to go to college.
>> Yeah.
>> They have to work two or three jobs. They're going to bankruptcy. I mean, they're hungry.
>> One of the most expensive. I think they almost go into debt. Almost $40k for four years.
>> Mhm.
>> And this is with 170 billionaires in California. And this is with the Democratic Party in charge of California. Apparently, that's okay.
>> It's okay that kids go into debt to go to college to.
go to San Jose State and San Francisco State.
Yeah. The Debt Collective has a very interesting book um London Rule that talks about like the financialization of higher education. you know, teachers are in debt, staff are in debt, students are in debt, and so the education system just becomes this really big, you know, interconnected debt hub that keeps us all kind of like under control because we're all in debt, you know, um, and struggling to be even middle class, you know?
I mean, I'm a >> They don't want freedom. They don't want freedom for people.
Yeah. So, it's amazing that this higher ed K through 12 and higher ed because we love to teach has turned into this like debt mongering mechanism that keeps us all suppressed in debt, not being able to climb up the economic ladder um and disempowered as workers because of it.
>> And of course, the adjuncts the use of part-time faculty.
Yes. I much critical of the two-tiered system at California State University. The two-tier system meaning that there's tenure tenure track that have more protections and the lecturers that have more precarious job security. And I've seen that two-tier system used against faculty over and over again to try to divide and conquer. And it works. And so that's why I passed a resolution with other unionist tenure for all system, you know, for everybody because if a person wants to teach and teach only and not do research, they should have a tenure system to protect them to do that. And if a person wants to research and research only and barely teach, then they should have that system, a tenure system to protect that. And so we need as a union to transform this two-tier system into a unionized one system where we're all equal and equivalent to each other in power and in privileges and benefits.
>> And another aspect of that in the working class of course is nonprofits because nonprofits are used to uh like charter schools are used to uh basically exploit workers. They're doing public work but they're not public workers. They don't get public pensions. Uh they have nonprofit workers in San Francisco.
>> They're taking money from public education, use nonprofits. I mean, that's driving uh a lot of the capitalist drive for profits. Turn into a nonprofit. And let's if you're even if you're doing public work, you're not a public worker.
>> in Europe and and uh France and Switzerland. The people who do public work are public workers.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean there was much more of the nonprofit industrial complex critique, you know, in the past 15 years and nothing's really changed. That nonprofit, you know, industrial complex um is still happening and it still has delletterious effects on our democracy when we have it unchecked, right? And so the charter school system like you talked about is an example of that where people use nonprofit mechanisms to basically uh one condemn the public system for not doing enough but two actually drain and transfer money from the public system to these nonprofit schools that don't meet criteria very often.
>> It's a commodification of education.
We're going to turn it into a profitm machine and then we're going to have religious schools, Christian fundamentalist schools get public money.
>> Yes.
>> Transform our whole society. And you have in San Francisco Mayor Daniel Luri, the billionaire mayor from the Levi family who ran a nonprofit tipping point and now is giving his friends uh the Kizar stadium. He wants to build his friend who owns Prologess uh Mohagadon is uh building a the a big project warehouse where they're going to use non-union Amazon workers to do the work. Even though the people of San Francisco are against Amazon's attack on democratic rights, the right of a unionization, the Amazon workers voted for union in San Francisco, and they're fighting that, but they're going to, the city, including the politicians in San Francisco are supporting prologes project Daniel Lur's friend building this warehouse in the Bay View where 6,000 trucks a day will be coming in, further polluting the Bay View community in San Francisco.
>> Yeah. I mean, these billionaires all see what they do as benevolence. You know, the National Guard was about to come to San Francisco, right, with ICE, and suddenly they stopped and they're 45 miles outside the perimeter of San Francisco, but hasn't entered. And my understanding is that billionaires started talking to each other and started talking to Trump and said, "Maybe not San Francisco, maybe not today." This is ridiculous. the levels that these billionaires, millionaires have influence on our political system.
>> Well, they control the Democratic party very clearly.
>> They control everything. It looks like
>> they control everything. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's not just the Democrats, you know, um it seems like they want to be the new political process that, you know, the three branches of government that we have is no longer convenient for billionaires in terms of how they do business. And so we really need to find some other way of doing quote unquote democracy, which is not democracy, in order to grease the skid so that they can go live on Mars. And the issue of uh a labor party, a workers party, and that the unions give millions of millions of dollars to the Democrats. They do the the uh campaigns, you know, on to to raise money for them to support them politically. Where has it gotten working people in in California and nationally? I mean, we gave my union gave money to Scott Weiner, and look what Scott Weiner did with Time, Place, Manners on both the UC and CSU campus. I mean, look, it directly relates to me be getting fired, me being terminated, Scott Weiner, and my union gave money to him every year. I I don't know if they've even stopped. I still think they're giving money to him. I'm clear. And what can people do to support you and others at CSU have been attacked and fired and you know and your effort to defend yourself? I mean what kind of campaign can people do? Can unions pass resolutions? Can workers oppose this? I mean it seems that CSU management, the trustees really have an agenda of getting rid of you and shutting down any any opposition, any critique of of what's going on with the genocide and what's happening here in this country?
Yeah, I think that I think that um what would really help is that you know you know other faculty and other campuses and universities across the nation need to see me as the canary in the coal mine and what's happening to me is going to happen to you all. You know, I had Henry Reichman as one of my witnesses at my hearing, you know, basically say um without mincing too many words that, you know, if I get terminated that my campus will more likely get censured by the AUP, just like Mora Finkelstein's campus got centured by the AUP. So, this is a battle for our speech. This is a battle for our profession. This is the battle for our tenure system and our right to faculty co-governance. It encompasses all of that. And if we don't unite and fight together, we're going to lose. Not just our jobs, but the entire industry. That's what's at stake.
>> Okay. Thank Thank you, Sang. And uh we've been talking with Sang Hey [snorts] Gill. She is a faculty member at San Jose State University who stood up uh to oppose the genocide and has been attacked and uh fired and is fighting for her job back and uh trying to defend democratic rights and defend human beings here and human beings in around the world. So, thanks for joining us.
>> Thank you again, Steve.