Soul Wounds & Freedom from Spirtual Oppression w/ Nelson Schuman

Unforgiveness is the number one reason why people have demonic strongholds. Say it again. I've done thousands of sessions with people. Unforgiveness is the number one reason why they're getting tormented and why there's sickness in their lives, 'cause they're angry and they're bitter, you know, and these demonic spirits keep giving them thoughts, and then what do they do? They trigger on their current relationships. And you need to start practicing taking thoughts captive, because if you do not do that, you'll hear a whole bunch of whispers from these demonic spirits.

When we are kids, we are easy targets for the enemy. If he fights early, he doesn't have to fight hard. There are a percentage of Christians who can have the Holy Spirit, yet still be tormented by demonic spirits. They don't leave. They won't leave until you remove their rights legally. I tell people, I can't get anyone delivered that doesn't want to. I commanded Legion, "What's your legal right to stay?" And it told her, she made an idol of listening to country music songs. We make an idol of food because we want to eat, 'cause it's a comfort food. You talked about soulish prayers. Trying to make a person do what you want. "Lord, just cause them to want me." And that's manipulation. "Oh Lord, I pray that the pastor will see my gifts in the name of Jesus, that he will promote me." Praying manipulative prayers. Ooh. And that's witchcraft. And in the dream, he revealed to me that the ring she gave me was cursed. And because I kept it, that made a contract, a spiritual contract with her where she could curse me. So I threw it away. And over the next couple of hours, the pain left and never came back again. You're kidding me. And I'm like, "Lord, why didn't you show me this like six months ago? I was in so much pain." He's like, "Well, because you're going to be teaching on this." And people talk about, "Well, a curse without a cause." I'm like, "Well, there's a lot of causes that you have that give rights to these demons, and you have no clue." Oh, because the church is not teaching this. This lady, she was like 70 years old. When she was seven, she used to dance seductively for older men. I go, "Do you know anything that happened prior to that?" And she said, "No, I blocked it out." I go, "Do you want to know what happened?" And she's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Well, just close your eyes." So then I commanded the demonic strongman that knew what happened, which turned out to be Jezebel, to come forward. So it told her, it said, "When you were age 3 to 5 years old, that you were sexually touched, molested multiple times by your oldest brother's best friend." When she heard that, she gasped. And I'm like, "What?" She said, "That explains everything." And the Lord reveals himself to me. This is not a podcast. This is a deliverance ministry. God is going to deliver just as many, if not more, here than he does inside of church buildings. And you got to keep giving yourself over to it. It's proving it to you over and over. And the weightiness of your anointing, the Lord says thousands will be delivered. Or you keep watching. Click the subscribe button. I'll wait. N seriously, subscribe right now. Also, like and share this video. The more you like, share, comment, and engage with this video, the more we're able to produce content just like this. And also, we got this merch. Got this merch. The link is in description. If you want to support the channel, you can also donate. That's also in the description. The more you guys support, the more we're able to produce content just like this. Thank you again. Peace.

I have the distinct honor to have with me here, and I did not know I was going to have him so soon, Mr. Nelson Schuman. Did I pronounce that correctly? Yes, you did. Oh my goodness. I've been watching you for the past several months, and the wisdom that God has poured out through you is just incredible. I just, I don't know what to say. So, I'm going to let you loosen a bit, but I need to know. I must know. First of all, before I get there, welcome. Well, thank you. We need to talk. Good to be here. Thank you. Thank you so much. If you guys don't know who this man is, after today, you will. I just want to know how you have become this deliverance minister that has this wisdom that has understanding. You're talking about soul wounds. You're talking about Jezebel. And I'm like, there's this white guy. My parents are Nigerian. And so before, like social media, I just thought Nigerians did deliverance. I just, they they're the only ones who did it. And so I'm seeing this white man who was able to distinctly and with detail go into the truths of deliverance. I'm like, who is this guy? So, I want to know, how did you get to this point?

Yes. So, first of all, I never wanted to be in ministry ever, let alone deliverance. That never crossed my mind. Uh, grew up in Indiana. Uh, in had corn fields that had had like a 160-acre farm. So, um, I always say I'm a kid from a cornfield because that's my roots. That's where I grew up at in northern Indiana. And my grandmother prayed for me when I was like 13 years old to receive the Holy Spirit with the evidence of praying in tongues. And I received it. And what was interesting was that my grandmother also needed some deliverance. So it kind of, and I, because I did not know at the time anything about it, other than my mom would read books by like Derek Prince. Yes. And some of the other great ones, and she, she was much into that. But yet I never really ever heard the spirit of Jezebel. I didn't know what that would have been if somebody would have said that to me. You know, I grew up in the church and I started going to a Church of God first when I was a little kid, and then a Presbyterian church, and then more of a Pentecostal, and then Assembly of God. Okay. And then non-denominational. Okay. So, that was kind of my background. And no one in the church ever talked about deliverance. I never heard it. So then, in fact, they would say that you're you're Christian and, and oh my goodness, you got your prayer language. There's no way you could possibly have demonic spirits. And yet, when I was 6 years old, I went to my, uh, I went to a public school. I was, I think I was in first grade and went to the bathroom, washing my hands, getting ready to go back to class, and some boys said, "Hey, Nelson, come take a look at this magazine." And I didn't know what it was. I thought maybe a Humpty Dumpty or maybe a Sports Illustrated. Turned out to be a Playboy. And I was shocked when I saw what I saw. And eventually, what happened is I started getting more addicted to wanting to look at pornography. And as I grew in the church, I felt such guilt and such shame because I'm like, I should not be doing this. This is bad. I don't want to be doing this. Why can't I stop? And nobody in the church ever said, "Oh, you need deliverance." And, and in fact, they sometimes they would talk about it and say, "Just stop doing it." And I'm like, "Okay, well, if I could, I would." But apparently, it's like as addictive as cocaine and some other drugs. It's extremely. So the Lord was kind of like showing me, even though I did not know it, that I was struggling with some demonic spirits of lust that I could not get freed from, you know, and I read books on it too, and, and how to, how to stop, basically. And none of it worked because it didn't talk about the demonic spirits that were behind it, the spiritual roots. M. And so it's really hard to get delivered from things unless you go after the spiritual roots. You know, you can go ahead and fast, you can pray, and, and, and a percentage of people can get some deliverance from that. But, uh, for me, it did not happen. And, uh, and I, and I was married. My first wife was 19 years, and, and we struggled. We both needed deliverance. Both, I did not know it. She did not know that either. And then we had three kids, and my oldest son, uh, was also shown, uh, some things he should not have been shown by a boy in our neighborhood.

Okay. So that's exactly how it happened to me too. Okay. Okay. I just wanted to say that that's like the enemy puts people on assignment. It's ridiculous. Well, and, and I do thousands of sessions with people around the world, and 95% of people that I have talked to, do sessions with, have either been exposed to pornography or have been touched or molested by the age of 14 because when we are kids, we are easy targets for the enemy. I always say the enemy, if he fights early, he doesn't have to fight hard. Yeah. And, and so, you know, I do all these personal sessions every week with people all over the world, and, and that's one of the questions I specifically ask is, okay, have you been shown pornography? And, and 95% of the people, yes, I've seen pornography. You know, and a lot of times it was again, kids at school that say, "Here, take a look at this." Could have been their dad had something in his bedroom and he kept it, you know. It could have been they went to the bathroom somewhere and they saw it in the bathroom. There's, it's just everywhere. Of course, now it's on phones and everything. Um, but I had no idea, you know, high percentages of people that have been touched and molested too. There's a lot, yes, that have that. So, and again, when that happens, there's spirits, demonic spirits of lust that will then gain ego legal rights to then attach to us. And then it'll cause us to have memories and cause us to have these urges, these fleshly things that we can't shake and we can't break off, you know. And that's why people come into the church and they're still struggling with that. They feel tremendous guilt and tremendous shame, tremendous lust, and they don't know how to get delivered. If the church is telling everyone that you don't have demons, don't need to worry about that. Well, then it's like, well, how do I stop? You know, and then oftentimes, in fact, you know, I live in Dallas now. I remember there was a teenager that went to a pastor there and said, "I want to get set free from looking at pornography." How, how can you help me? And the pastor's like, "No, that's okay. That's normal. You know, everybody does that." And, and so when I did some research, I found out that 57% of pastors, senior pastors look at pornography, 57% regularly, 64% of youth pastors, and then 75% of men that attend church, and a third of all women. So it's extremely, uh, common, and that was done by the Barna Group, which was commissioned by Josh McDowell Ministries. And it might be even higher than that because definitely some people are not honest with. Not even going to be honest with it. So, yeah.

So anyway, you know, here I am. I'm growing up in Indiana, church kid, you know, received my prayer language, praying in tongues when I'm 13, and yet still struggling. And I'm like, why am I struggling? Why am I struggling? Get married, still can't stop. And I'm like, why can't I stop? This is awful. You know, I, I felt such guilt, such shame, and, and I'm like, what in the world, Lord? This is such an addiction at such a high level. And what I, and, and then I kept struggling with it until the Lord delivered me. And when he delivered me, that was in my heart. I wanted to be set free from that. Uh, but he delivered me while I was asleep. When I woke up, I could hear the Lord speaking to me in my mind, in my thoughts, and I never heard it before because I was hearing stuff I never heard before. So I knew it wasn't the enemy, and I knew it wasn't myself. Yeah. And when I first started hearing, I'm like, "What in the world? You can't hear the Lord like that, can you?" And the Lord kept talking to me, kept explaining things to me. And then what I saw in my life was the being set free from pornography and other fleshly, uh, uh, manifestations, you know, being being more controlling or manipulative or selfish. All that stuff just went away. And I wanted to help other people. I remember it was on Thanksgiving. It was 2008 when, when the Lord delivered me. I wanted to serve on Thanksgiving to the less fortunate people. And that was not me before, you know. Before that, I wanted to be a millionaire. You know, I was in banking. I was in, in software. And I made a lot of money, and I grew up poor on the farm. So, we didn't have any money. So, I'm like, well, I'm, and I saw my parents argue because they didn't have money. So, I'm like, well, boy, if I make a lot of money, then my wife and I won't argue because we'll have money to buy whatever. And that made sense. So, um, but I made a lot of money, and we still had these arguments, and, uh, and then ultimately, you know, led to a divorce. And, and then my son at the time, too, was, uh, basically from the time he was 8 till he was 18, he was a mess. We put him in Christian counseling. I spent thousands of dollars, and he was just getting darker and more angry and more violent. And I thought he'd either be in jail by the time he was 20 or dead because he was just out of control.

So when the Lord delivered me, I remember it. The Lord spoke to me and he said, you know, how, uh, what is it that you want out of your life? It was kind of like a come to Jesus meeting for me. I was like 41 years old. What is it that you want out of your life? And I'm like, well, I thought it was money because I, you know, my parents argued all the time. Didn't have any money. And, but I'm like, I got all this money and, and, uh, saved it up. And I'm like, I don't have any peace. You know, my son is a mess. You know, my marriage is a mess. So, I'm like, I guess if I had to choose, it'd be peace. I go, now, if I can have peace and money, if I could have two choices, I will take that. But I go, if I had to choose one, it'll be peace. And the Lord spoke to me. He said, "That's a wise decision. Wise decision." He goes, "And I will do this for you. I will give you peace, but I will take away all the money that you have, and I'm going to humble you, humble the pride out of you because money and all that is normally, you know, can lead to pride." And I didn't even see the pride that I had until I was delivered. And then gone through the process where the Lord did eventually take away all the money. I didn't waste it and spend it stupidly. Yeah. It just, eventually went away. Circumstances and stuff. And I remember I had to give plasma to make money. So I go from making, you know, $160,000 to $220,000 a year in banking and software to having to give plasma in order to eat.

So like they took blood from. They took blood from me. I did, I could only do it twice a week. And then I worked a job where I made like $14 an hour scoring tests from, like high school kids. You had to have a college degree to do it. But so I did that, and then I gave blood in order to to live. And a very humbling process, you know, when you have everything and then you have nothing, you know, but what can you do? You know, I couldn't get myself out of it. And so the Lord started the process of changing my heart to his because he told me, "Once I have your heart and it's mine, then I can trust you. Then, you know, I will have you start doing ministry and I will start to increase the finances for you because then I can trust you. You won't waste it on buying yourself a bigger car, a better house, more clothes, you know." And I'm like, "All right." So, I made a deal. I was like, "Deal?" Thinking there's no way I'm going to lose all this money. Well, I did. It was like, I mean, it was within six months. It was crazy all the things that, uh, took it away. And, but in that process, it did humble me. And then eventually the Lord, um, I started, uh, in a church having these healing rooms where we would pray for people, and, and the Lord had taught me some things about the spirit of Jezebel. And so that I started learning about what that spirit did in relationships. I had had a, uh, I got remarried. Married. The Lord had me get remarried, and she had a very strong spirit of that, and I saw it in before my eyes and I couldn't believe how it could cause a person to change like a jackal and hide, you know, but I had compassion for her because I knew that she was being tormented by these demonic spirits, but I didn't know exactly what it was until after it had been six years of it, and I couldn't tell anybody. So I had to endure a lot of abuse and not even my kids knew, no one knew because she would actually behave when my kids were.

In front of people. Yeah. But then once they left, which was like every other week, then I would get the other side, and it was just scary, you know, knives thrown at me, glasses thrown at me, chased, yelled, screamed at, a lot of stuff that I was like, "Lord, how long do I have to endure this? This is, you know, I was, I wanted her to get healed and delivered because I'm like, this is, uh, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm seeing the results of when a person gets hurt and wounded." The Lord was showing me this up close and personal 'cause she had explained some of the hurts and wounds she had from her dad, from her mom, from other people. And so, I had compassion on that, and I just took it, and I took it, and I took it, and, uh, waited. I thought eventually over time she would get better, but she didn't. And then eventually that spirit started to manifest and wanted to stop me from starting to do a little bit of ministry. And I couldn't believe it. And I'm like, "Lord," I go, "I want her to be set free from this." He said, "She's got a free will." And I cannot override her free will, and you cannot override her free will. Even though I fasted for 21 days, water only. And that was the hardest thing I ever did. I lost 30 pounds in three weeks. And it did not change her at all. Now, it caused me to be really hungry. So, I appreciate it. Yeah. When the Lord's like calls you to do a fast, I take it seriously and I will do it. Um, as under the Lord. But eventually, the Lord then, um, you know, she ended up filing for divorce. I tried to stop it. Would not, could not stop it. And then eventually the Lord started having me write some books and then started traveling around the United States. And I started traveling for five straight years living in other people's homes, and people that did not know, you know, I knew none of them. They knew me from Facebook. That's how it started, basically. So I had to trust the Lord was setting me up to live with these people. Sometimes for a night, sometimes for a week. And what the Lord showed me was behind closed doors, I could get an eye's view of how their family, uh, was operating.

Oh, he was training you. Yeah, he was training me. He was showing me because I could see, like, I remember one lady that called me to come down. It was in Florida and said, "Oh yeah, my husband, he's a Jezebel. He's just horrible. He's mean." Well, then when I saw him behind closed doors, she was the one that was controlling and being mean to him. And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, she's lying." Gosh. So I could see all of this. And, and so it gave me tremendous, um, understanding because who gets to travel for five years living in other people's homes and seeing how they treat one another, how the husbands and wives treat each other, how the children interact. So, you know, of course, I'm not like spying on them. I'm just in the home so I can see it. And hear it. And, uh, and so I was traveling and I was doing ministry in some of their homes. Yes. Yes. 'Cause some of the churches flat out, they would not want me to come in because I suspect that either the pastor or some of the leaders were operating in some demonic spirits and they did not want me to come in there because they might end up being exposed and they didn't want people to know that. It's so sad. And the L, I told the Lord, I'm like, "Man, I go, we got to get the people in the church delivered." Yes. I go, "That's the problem. I go, there's so many people out there in these churches and leaders that are not healed, that are not delivered. They're prideful. They're Pharisaical. You know, they're in sexual sin. They're in corruption. They're in control, manipulation. They're very prideful." And it's like, you can't force a person to get delivered if they don't want to. You know, Jesus couldn't get the Pharisees and scribes delivered. He knew that their hearts were wicked, that they were jealous, and they hated him. You know, so I got to see all this. I'm traveling. I'm, I'm doing Facebook Live teachings, and it just grows, and then there's more people around the world that start to watch it. We eventually start putting it on YouTube. So then people on YouTube can watch it that aren't on Facebook. And then it just continues to grow, continues to grow. And then, um, you know, eventually, uh, like last year, it, it went from, uh, I think we had 10,000 subscribers on YouTube to 40,000 in about two and a half months.

No, that's crazy. And I'm watching this. I'm like, "How is this possible?" I go, "I'm not buying followers." I go, "And, and I mean, some, some days were like a thousand new followers, and I'm like, what's going on?" I had no clue, you know. And then after the YouTube growth, then, um, Facebook grew from like 11,000 to like 40,000 in a couple of months. And then, fin, well, then TikTok was already now. TikTok's up to 197,000. So that was wild that that took off over the last couple of years. And then, uh, Instagram. I hadn't done much with Instagram, but now that's up to 31,000.

Oh, that's where I found you. So that, yeah. Okay. That's how you found me. That's how a lot of people are finding me now, which. And then Threads, which a couple people are like, "Hey, I found you on Threads." God. So, and then the Lord had me write books. And so now I've got 10 books. And the last one that I wrote, Yeah. Um, I'll talk a little about it. Yeah. Called Freedom from Soul Wounds and Demons. And what does that mean? Freedom from Soul Wounds. In fact, it's funny because when I came up, I mean, the Lord told me to put that title there, and I'm like, "Lord, I go, if I put demons on there, people aren't going to probably buy it because they're going to say, 'Wait a minute, I'm not buying no book with demons.'" You know, maybe I should mask that and call it, uh, uh, soul wounds and spirits. Yeah, exactly. Something, I don't know. A little less intrusive. But the Lord said, "No, it's about demons. Do not sugarcoat it. Speak the truth." You know, and people are going to hear what you say and they're going to come because of the truth. You're going to be bold. I'm going to anoint you to speak the truth. Come on.

So, so the Lord often times has me talk about topics, you know, like today on my YouTube, I talked about Jesus wasn't nice. Jesus wasn't nice. It's funny because my, my wife is from Atlanta. Okay. And, uh, she, she would always tell me that, you know, when, when girls are raised in the South, that you have to be nice. They always want you to be nice. That means don't like rile anybody up. Just go with the flow. Well, did Jesus do that? Absolutely not. You know, he confronted the Pharisees and scribes, and he, he, he told them, you know, that they were whitewashed tombs and that they would, you know, they would look the other way. They would not do things that, uh, they would not walk in the same precepts that they had in their, uh, laws that they came up with. But they would judge people, and they would judge them unrighteously. So they had logs in their own eyes. You know, Jesus said that we should judge righteously. Well, when we are healed and delivered, we can then judge righteously. And we do need to do that. Wow. But you do it out of love. You don't do it out of condemnation or anything like that. Yes. So, you know, Jesus wasn't, uh, nice. Niceness is not a fruit of the spirit. No, it's not. Kindness is. Come on. Jesus was kind. Yes. But you can imagine when he saw them buying and selling, you know, in the temple, that he came in with a cord and started driving out the animals and saying, you know, "What are you doing?" And, and he was upset about it. Now, did he beat up any of the birds and kill them? No, he did not. But, uh, he was righteously angry with what was going on there. So niceness, uh, would cause a person to not broach a subject of a person that might be struggling with pride because they couldn't take it.

So, so I have to speak on that because most everyone's got pride, which is a spirit called Leviathan in Job 41. So niceness cares about their feelings and how they've received. Yeah. Niceness is like, don't want to rile anybody up. I got to look the other way when someone's doing things they shouldn't be doing, you know. And what, and when you're in the deliverance ministry, if you don't address some of these things, they're not going to get delivered from it. Well, gee, I didn't want to talk about that. They might have this spirit called Jezebel, you know, that causes them to be controlling and manipulative because they're going to get upset. So I'll just steer clear from that. That's good. And you see this when you go into most churches where there's pastors that are counseling. Like if you have a couple, and one of them has the spirit of Jezebel, which is they're going to be controlling, manipulative, mean, uh, dominating, prideful, sexually impure, and that can be on a woman or a man. So just to be clear, because some people think it's only on a woman, but the spirit Jezebel, woman or a man, and they marry a person that tends to be more like an Ahab, where they just kind of like go with the flow. So they don't say anything and they want people to like them, you know, and Jezebels can get them what they want because they'll be ruthless at doing what they want.

So ultimately, if a person is in a counseling session, you know, you're going to find one of them that's going to be more the dominant one that wants their way. And that can be a man, but that can be a woman. Come on. You know, and that's what a lot of people don't want to think. Oh, these women, they're all just sweet and nice. I'm like, uh, no, they're not. If you've not seen them behind closed doors, they can have a completely different personality. And I know the reason why now, it's because they got hurt and they got wounded when they were a kid, when they were growing up. Often times hurt by a father, can be hurt by a mother, or they're sexually touched or molested or shown pornography.

So you're saying that wound perpetuates the spirit of Jezebel? Yes. I'm going to say something about the niceness because the Lord convicted me about niceness like three years ago, and he said, "I did not call you to be nice." Yes. I called you to be righteous, and in my righteousness, you will find my kindness." And I realized that my niceness had everything to do with me wanting to protect myself and project an image. I wanted people to see me a certain way, and I could not have it that they thought Ezekiel could be this or say this because that would mar and taint my reputation and my image. But I realized that kindness is more selfless. It's about compassion. And if I truly love the real you, the true you, not your image, then I'm going to love your soul and tell you the truth. I'm going to be kind enough to you to tell you when you do something wrong because I truly love you. Right? So, man, that's that's. Because there's a lot of pastors out there want to tickle the ears of their crowd because they want to get paid, you know, tithes. And if you step on their feet and you speak the truth and say, "Hey, you need, you know, you need to repent for this unrepentant sin, you know, that can lead you to hell." You know, and if they don't hear that message, and then they end up dying, and then they end up going to hell thinking, "Wait a minute, I was supposed to be there." There's going to be a percentage of pastors that will also be there with them. Can you imagine that encounter when a person sees, "Oh my goodness, what is my pastor doing here?" In fact, I've met a pastor that, uh, he was taken to hell and, uh, shown some things, and then he came back, and Jesus spoke to him, and Jesus said that, you know, he goes, "Why was I taken to hell?" He's like, "Because you wanted me to punish those who did you wrong. You wanted them to have justice and consequences for that." He goes, "That's up to me. I'm the one. You are to forgive me." And, and, and what's interesting is in Matthew 18:21-35. Jesus gives the, uh, parable of the unforgiving servant. You know. And again, Peter's thinking he's great by saying we should just forgive seven times, right? Because at the time, I believe it was around three times is what the Pharisees would say that you had to forgive in a day a certain person that did you wrong. So he was saying seven to Jesus. And Jesus said, "Uh, no, not not seven. 70 times 7." So I can imagine Peter doing the math in his head, that's 490 times in a day. That's crazy. And then he gave the example of the guy who had a great deal of debt. And when I, I Google, I searched to find out how much that's worth in today's dollars. And it was billions. He was forgiven billions by the master or by the king or by the ruler, which version you read it from the Bible. He was forgiven that much. And then he turned around to a guy that owed him like, uh, half a year's worth of wages that couldn't pay and said, "No." And he threw him into prison. And then finally, that information got back to the, the ruler, the king, and he got furious. So he threw him in prison. And it says he was turned over to the tormentors. Tormentors. And Jesus said the same thing will happen to us if we don't forgive those from our hearts. And so when you do, you know, have the Holy Spirit, revealed, the Holy Spirit revealed to me what torments people. Demonic spirits do. Demonic spirits will torment you when you do not forgive people from your heart who hurt. You'll be like, you're imprisoned. Because they will give you all these thoughts. And it was interesting after a couple of years of doing the ministry, three, I was in Boise, Idaho, getting my oil changed, which I frequently did because I'm traveling all over the place. And the Lord spoke to me and he said, "How many thoughts a day do you think the average person has?" Like, I don't know. How would anybody know that? He said, "Google it. You'll find it." So I Googled, "How many thoughts a day does the average person have?" And I found in 2005, the National Science Foundation did a study, and they found that the average person had 12,000 thoughts a day, of which 80% are negative. 95% same thoughts as the day before. The Lord said, "Those are largely coming from demons." Those demons keep reminding people in their thoughts all the bad things that people said and did their entire life. And good. Because they didn't forgive. So they're tormented. Makes sense.

So their unforgiveness perpetuates their unforgiveness. Their unforgiveness perpetuates and strengthens their bondage. Absolutely. So the longer, Oh, the longer you don't forgive, the more torment. Absolutely. And the torment's not only not only, uh, the thoughts you get from the demonic spirits, which mentally can cause you to have lots of challenges, but also can be physical. The Lord also reminded me to search this, and I'd never heard of it before. He goes, "Search to find out the correlation between unforgiveness and cancer." My gosh. I'm like, "Okay." So I ended up searching, and I found that there was a study done by Dr. Steven Standerford, um, also a pastor, um, that they found that there was a correlation that adults, adults who had cancer, uh, that 60% of them was due directly to unforgiveness. 50% they had severe unforgiveness. So when someone does us wrong and hurts us, if we don't forgive, we can then be poisoning ourselves and get these sicknesses and diseases. And when I found that, I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" And I remember I talked about it for the first time, and there's a whole bunch of people that didn't like it. But I'm like, "I'm sorry. Don't shoot the messenger. This was a study that was done, you know." So it's a powerful statement to saying, "Okay, well, I'm." And people think that forgiveness is just letting them get off the hook. That's another thing. That's not what it is.

Come on, talk to us. What it is is getting, getting your anger and your vengeance and your ruminating and all that that you have sickness in your stomach from because you're so mad and you're so angry, and you're plotting and you're trying to come against them, and you're giving that to Jesus, saying, "Here you go. You take it. I'm going to forgive them for what they did." Doesn't mean that you have to reconcile with the person. That's ridiculous. Why would you do that if they're going to hurt you and wound you again, you know? Well, so you just come away from that person, but you give them to the Lord instead of spending years trying to get back at them. You know, that's where so many, and there's so many people in the church that do that. But you talk about this because sometimes I feel like some people feel like they've let them go when they don't wish them harm. Like they don't wish that they would die. But there's something in them that's kind of like, "Yeah, but, yeah, something's still there." How do you deal with that?

Yeah. So, um, people will ask me that, "How do you know when you've forgiven?" Well, big thing is you won't even think about them anymore. You won't even think about them. You've forgiven them. No big deal. And in many cases, you have to really think about what they did. You know, there's, there's people that, you know, have been hurt what, you know, they were kids by their fathers and mothers. That's the first source that most of our hurts are coming from. Fathers, mothers, and stepfathers, stepmothers, aunts, uncles, cousins. Yeah. Um, grandparents. And if you're still talking about it now, and let's say that you're 30 years old, 40 years old, 50 years old, you've not forgiven. I'm sending this video to somebody. You've not, you know, because you're still dwelling upon it. And the, and the demons will keep giving you thoughts to join in to get you to ruminate. Well, you remember what they said. And often times, people can remember in the voice, in the tone that it was spoken to them, and it's 20, 30, 40, 50 years later. So they've not forgiven. You know, things that, uh, when a person's truly forgiven, you have to really remember. You know, there's stuff that, you know, happened to me four or five years ago, I don't remember it. You know, I have to really think about it. If I don't have it written down, if I wrote it down, then I can go back and say, "Yep, this is exactly the sequence of events." But, um, a person that's truly forgiven doesn't think about it anymore. And in fact, they could even pray for him, you know, go, go the extra mile. I mean, that's it. Does have a Bible reference to that that we should pray for our enemies. Yes. You know, and in fact, uh, I know the pastor that went to hell and came back. He said, "I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to go to hell." Come on. And I'm like, "Lord, go, you probably need to take some of these people to hell to show them what they're getting into if they refuse to forgive." Because unforgiveness is the number one reason why people have demonic strongholds. Say it again. I've done thousands of sessions with people. Unforgiveness is the number one reason why they're getting tormented and why there's sickness in their lives 'cause they're angry and they're bitter, you know, and these demonic spirits keep giving them thoughts, and then what do they do? They trigger on their current relationships. They get overexaggeratedly angry or bitter over nothing really.

What about the whole trying to protect ourselves and the distrust that we create once we've been hurt and we go into another relationship like paranoid and ready to kind of kick out the first person that attempts to even try to love us? Yeah. Yeah. So, so if we're not healed of those hurts and wounds, we will trigger on our current relationships because it'll feel like the same thing that we went through. So, that's why a person gets hurt and wounded as a child. 99% of them aren't healed and aren't delivered. So, they're also getting tormented by demonic spirits in their minds, getting all these thoughts all the time, you know, and then it causes them to get into relationships with people that generally aren't healed and aren't delivered. Come on. So, they're going to come together and they're going to fight. They're going to trigger and they're going to be like, "Oh no, I got hurt again." And then they want to be loved. So then they go on to another relationship, and if that person's not healed and delivered, then they both trigger on each other again, and they're like, "Oh no, here we go again." So that's why it's important to take a time out, get yourself healed, get yourself delivered because when you go through that process, it takes a whole lot to cause you to trigger now because you got those wounds healed. So you won't be feeling those feelings or hearing, you know, that's another thing is you need to take the thoughts captive. You got to say, "I silence the voice of the enemy every time you hear a negative thought that comes in." Come on. Because most people don't do that. So when I take a person through a session of healing and deliverance, I always end it saying, "Listen, you need to start practicing taking thoughts captive because if you do not do that, you'll hear a whole bunch of whispers from these demonic spirits and they'll cause you to have fear and anxiety and anger and bitterness and jealousy and, and, and to try to get you to back into triggering again because you'll be hearing things that aren't true."

I'll say this. This is a true, uh, testimony from a guy from Houston. He, I was married to his wife 20 years, and she was ready for a divorce because he wouldn't trust her. He would call. He was married to his wife, or you were married to his wife? No, no, no. He, he was married to his wife. Okay. They were, they were in Houston, and, uh, and she, she started following my ministry, and she knew exactly that this is, he needed deliverance from this because he had some traits of the spirit of Jezebel. Okay. So ultimately, um, they came down. I was at a TV station doing a TV program at the time, and this is like, I don't know, six years ago, probably seven years ago, something like that. And so they came down there, and I, I went to meet with, uh, her husband, and he, he was willing to meet. And I, I, he was about 25 feet away, and as I was talking to him, the Lord spoke to me and said that he had a wound sexually when he was a child. Ask him about it. So, here I am, don't know him, just met him. I said, "Hey, did you ever have any sexual wounds when you were younger?" And he looked back to make sure his wife wasn't looking. And he's like, "Uh, yeah. Um, when I was," he goes, "I haven't told anybody this my entire life." And he was like 40 years old at this point. Never told anybody. He said, "Yeah." He goes, "When I was 8 years old, my 15-year-old sister molested me." And I'm like, "Okay, do you remember what thoughts came into your mind the very next day?" He said, "Oh, yeah. I remember like yesterday. The thoughts told me I could not trust women." And I'm like, "What are you doing with your wife? I don't trust her." I'm like, "See the correlation? You're hearing the same demons today that you heard as an eight-year-old." He's like, "Oh my gosh." So I'm like, "You want to get delivered from that?" He's like, "Yes." So I took him through right there. He just said, "I choose to forgive my sister for molesting me, which caused me to feel." And he named off how he felt. I felt dirty. I felt violated. I felt, uh, shame. I felt guilt. I felt anger. Um, and then he gave all those wounds to Jesus, asked Jesus to heal, which Jesus did. And then I commanded the demons to go that attached to his soul. He was delivered. And then what was crazy is go on this TV program, and the Lord said, "Ask him if he'd be willing to come share his testimony." I'm like, "What?" I'm like, "That just happened like five minutes ago." I'm like, "I don't think he's ready for this, Lord." And the Lord's like, "Uh, you won't know if you don't ask him." And so I did. I said, "Would you be willing to come on?" He said, "Yes." And both him and his wife came on. And then he shared. He said, "Oh yeah, I used to be really jealous and control." I'm like, "Well." And his wife's like looking at him like, "Well, that just, you, you were up till like an hour ago." Because that's what freedom does. Like, that's what freedom does. Yes. He could share the truth. And then, and then she checked back, uh, like over the next several weeks and said, "He doesn't do it anymore. He doesn't call." 'Cause he used to call all the time. "Where are you at? Where are you at? Where are you at? Where are you at?" You know, text, "Where are you at? Where are you at?" You know, because he was hearing these demons telling him that he couldn't trust his wife when he could. So it saved their marriage. Oh my gosh. Oh Lord.

I got a like by few questions because you brought up certain things that I've seen on certain videos and especially because this book is called Freedom from Soul Wounds. Could you break down what does it mean to have a soul wound? And then I want to get into.

Kind of some of the spiritual things that you mentioned?

>> Yep. So our soul is our mind, will and emotions. That's our soul. And I need to explain this is when uh when we get hurt and we get wounded, demonic spirits will have rights to start tormenting us. And where do they torment us at? First place is our thoughts, our mind. So they essentially attach to our soul. That's where they attach to. And then they start giving us thoughts, reminding us of all the things that were bad that so that we don't forgive. So they can still have rights to keep tormenting us forever and then get us to justify staying in sin and then then we become a Christian.

So okay, okay, you know, in the Americanized version they said to ask Jesus into your heart, you know, in the Bible it says to repent >> to change, you know, and so what happens is when we have, you know, the Holy Spirit come into our spirit, it's right there in our spirit.

>> Yes. But as long as that person still has not forgiven everyone truly from their hearts or repented for pride or repented for unrepentant sin, yes, those demons will still torment them. That's why there are a percentage of Christians who can have the Holy Spirit yet still be tormented by demonic spirits. They don't leave. They won't leave until you remove their rights legally through largely forgiveness from your heart. and repentance for pride and repentance for sin, then you can command them to go.

>> Whoa.

>> So, you know, I was taught in the church that, oh, Christian can't have demons or there's no way you can have the Holy Spirit and demons. Well, I've heard people that pray in the spirit, can pray in tongues, and then they manifest behind closed doors demonically or they get mad, they get angry, you know, they can yell, they can scream, they turn into a different person, a different alternate personality. And it's because they still have those hurts and wounds. You know, I've talked to thousands and thousands of because I've done sessions with thousands of people who have the Holy Spirit. They can pray in the spirit, but they're still they know they're being tormented by these thoughts that are demonic, and they want to get delivered from that. They want to take those thoughts captive, and they oftenimes have sickness in their bodies because of that.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> You know, one of the big things too besides the unforgiveness is pride. So many people that have pride >> and the Lord showed me this uh in the Bible, of course, uh Non had leprosy.

>> Non wanted to be healed.

>> Yes.

>> You know, and Jesus wants to heal. Yes.

>> But if we have a legal right that we've given to the demons, then Jesus can't. He can't heal until we forgive or we repent for our pride or we renounce and uh and basically turn from the sin, repent from the sin. So pride is a huge huge uh blocker of people in their healings.

>> Oh my god.

>> You know, and allowing demons to come in and torment them. So non in his case, you know, he was told by uh by uh Elisha had sent a messenger out to him and uh he was told to go dip seven times in the Jordan River. I've been to the Jordan River. I've been baptized there. It's dirty. They have rats there.

>> So to get baptized there, you got to humble yourself. He was like, I'm above that. I'm not doing that. You know, at least send me to the Farar rivers or another river that he names because those are clean. Yes, I'm not going to do that. And then then he's arguing and saying, "You know what?" He kind of he walks away, but he's mad because he's prideful. And uh and then he has a person that comes up and approaches him that reports to him. And uh and and and then non says to him, he's like, you know, at least he could have just, you know, said the word >> or or taken his hand over my leprosy and waved it.

>> So, you know, I was taught in the church that, oh, Christian can't have demons or there's no way you can have the Holy Spirit and demons. Well, I've heard people that pray in the spirit, can pray in tongues, and then they manifest behind closed doors demonically or they get mad, they get angry, you know, they can yell, they can scream, they turn into a different person, a different alternate personality. And it's because they still have those hurts and wounds. You know, I've talked to thousands and thousands of because I've done sessions with thousands of people who have the Holy Spirit. They can pray in the spirit, but they're still they know they're being tormented by these thoughts that are demonic, and they want to get delivered from that. They want to take those thoughts captive, and they oftenimes have sickness in their bodies because of that.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> You know, one of the big things too besides the unforgiveness is pride. So many people that have pride >> and the Lord showed me this uh in the Bible, of course, uh Non had leprosy.

>> Non wanted to be healed.

>> Yes.

>> So, >> like so many Christians, they don't want to be sick. They want to be healed. Yes. You know, and Jesus wants to heal. Yes.

>> But if we have a legal right that we've given to the demons, then Jesus can't. He can't heal until we forgive or we repent for our pride or we renounce and uh and basically turn from the sin, repent from the sin. So pride is a huge huge uh blocker of people in their healings.

>> Oh my god.

>> You know, and allowing demons to come in and torment them. So non in his case, you know, he was told by uh by uh Elisha had sent a messenger out to him and uh he was told to go dip seven times in the Jordan River. I've been to the Jordan River. I've been baptized there. It's dirty. They have rats there.

>> So to get baptized there, you got to humble yourself. He was like, I'm above that. I'm not doing that. You know, at least send me to the Farar rivers or another river that he names because those are clean. Yes, I'm not going to do that. And then then he's arguing and saying, "You know what?" He kind of he walks away, but he's mad because he's prideful. And uh and then he has a person that comes up and approaches him that reports to him. And uh and and and then non says to him, he's like, you know, at least he could have just, you know, said the word >> or or taken his hand over my leprosy and waved it.

>> So there's so many of us as Christians, we want to be healed in a way that we want to be healed.

>> We don't want to have to go through some work on our part.

>> So many people, they want to be healed and delivered, but I'm sorry, you know, it's not just a oneandone. Now, it can help tremendously, absolutely positively, but you need to come with a heart, a humble heart. And there's so many people that are prideful. And so that that uh example is so true today is people want to be healed from their their pain and their hurts and their wounds, but have you looked in the mirror at yourself and you've said, "Lord, humble the pride out of me. Whatever it takes."

>> Come on.

>> So in his case, he had to go back to the dirty Jordan River, dip not once, not twice, but seven times. And then he was healed from the leprosy. And I'm like, so, you know, I I think about so many people in the church that, you know, I was taught wrong. You know, again, I know the Lord took me in to the church churches and then I traveled all around the United States and going to different churches and I could hear these messages and there's a percentage of them that were not the truth.

>> Come on.

>> You know, people want to hear what they want to hear. They don't want to have to actually repent for their sin and change.

>> Come on.

>> But I'm like, I'm sorry, but that's like a salvation issue. If you want to keep justifying, I'm not saying that that we're sinless, but what the Lord told me, he said, "Sin should be rare in a true Christian's life because it has no appeal anymore."

>> That's so true.

>> Say that again. Sin should be rare because >> because there's no appeal to it. You know, when I was healed and delivered is like I remember I was like, I did not want to look at pornography one time. I did not want to lust after a woman. I go, that had no hold on me anymore. Why? Because it would grieve the Holy Spirit in me. So if you're not convicted by the Holy Spirit,

>> come on,

>> for the sins that you're trying to justify staying in largely because the demons keep giving you thoughts telling you nobody's perfect. Only Jesus was perfect. Trying to get you to say, "Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true." So they try to twist some of the scriptures to allowing you to keep staying in that sin. So, it's one thing if, you know, I came to church when I was 17, 18 and I struggled with pornography, but if I'm still struggling with it now and I'm, you know, 58 years old, that's not a good thing.

>> You know, we need to have the Holy Spirit convict us.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> You know, and so here's the Holy Spirit trying. In fact, I mean, Derek Prince talked about this. Derek Prince um you know, was one of the premier deliverance ministers back in the 70s 60s7s 80s >> and he said we need the Holy Spirit and he he gave the example of this >> he said if you are a college student and you go take a class and the professor comes up and says I'm going to give you the test without teaching you do you expect to pass it no you've never been taught he said so that's why you need the Holy Spirit in in order to help you get delivered from the demonic spirits.

>> Come on.

>> That is so true.

>> Come on.

>> You know, cuz when you hear the Holy Spirit, Holy Spirit's trying to tell you, hey, listen, you need to forgive everybody from your heart. Read Matthew 18 21-35. Read that. And then when you read it, the Holy Spirit will show you, oh, it says, I'll be turned over to the tormentors if I don't forgive from my heart and be imprisoned. And that's symbolic of demons. Well, that makes sense. You know, a lot of times people that may may have the Holy Spirit, but may also be hearing a lot of demonic stuff. Yes. You know, that'll cause them to behave in ways where they're mean and they're selfish. Well,

>> you know, when you get healed and delivered, you're not that way anymore. You're loving, you're kind, you're gentle. You You have the fruit of the spirit. So, the Lord showed me is when you're healed and you're delivered, you say goodbye to that struggles with the flesh stuff. No more. It doesn't have a desire for it anymore. Who wants to do that? Who wants to be selfish? who wants to have wrath, who wants to be angry. But there's so many Christians that say, "Well, that's just the way I am. That's just the way I am."

>> And I I I I I'm going to attest to that because I feel like Holy Spirit is going to do a progressive work. Sanctification is a progressive work. Meaning

>> that this is what I've noticed and this is what I I start to tell my friends. I'm like, "Man, it feels like >> the closer I get to God, the longer I'm here, he starts to nitpick at me." Yes. at things that yes, >> he let me slide with years ago. And so I I give it I give the example of, you know, there was a uh when I tried to take this gym membership, I got the cheap membership and the coach was he would yell instructions every now and then, but the people that paid for the high $800 membership, the bodybuilders, he would be on them, no, do this again. Do it again. I'm like,

>> "Yeah, well, first of all, I don't want that. I don't want it to be that tough." But that aggressive intense kind of >> it feels like, "Oh my gosh, like Lord, you won't I can't watch this. I can't listen to this. I can't go here. I can't do this." He's on you perfecting you progressively. So,

>> yes,

>> the year this year or last this year,

>> I'm going to look different next year because that progressive voice is going to continue to say, "Hey,

>> better. You could you could do better. There's a little anger here. There's still more here. you can grow here. And it's and it doesn't stop as he perfects you.

>> Yes. Yeah.

>> Because you don't want to grieve the Holy Spirit.

>> See, and that's why when we are, you know, doing things we shouldn't be doing, the Holy Spirit has to back up because it can't even put itself around what you're doing if it's, you know, sinful and uh toxic and so forth. Now, I'll say this, what you just talked about there. The Lord got a hold of me uh about three years ago. So, when I grew up on the farm in Indiana, we would eat meat and potatoes and normally we would have dessert.

>> Okay.

>> And I like my dessert.

>> Come on. Come on.

>> And I go with my mom to the grocery store and get to pick out some donuts.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> And so what happened is throughout uh the next, you know, many years of my life, I would still have a craving for sugar like cookies and stuff. And a lot of times people struggle with eating food that's not healthy for them.

>> Talk, that's another story.

>> So oftentimes they're like, "Well, I don't do that sin. I don't do that sin." But then there's some gluttony going on and people don't want to hear that. No, they don't want to hear that at all. In fact, the demonic spirit behind gluttony is called Beelzeub. And it's a um god from the Philistines. And you can search and find it. Lord of the flies. Sometimes flies come to the food. So anyways, the Lord got my attention and said, "I don't want you eating sugar anymore. It's not healthy for you." I'm like, "But but but I like sugar."

>> What does it got to do with us?

>> I'm like, "What does that have to do with anything spiritual, Lord?" He said, "Because he goes, you know, that that can cause you to have a lot of damage in your body because guess what? You are not walking in self-control."

>> Oh my god.

>> And that's a fruit of the spirit. I'm like, ah. I go, but I like it. I like my I like my cookies. I like my And I'm like I I cut back from drinking the soda pops. And uh I was drinking lemonade. And the Lord's like, "Hello." And sweet tea. Like you know how much sugar is in sweet tea? I'm like, "But it tastes so good." So I had to uh start practicing self-control. And you know, a lot of But you know, most people they're they're not going to receive that. Nope. if they're if they're opened to the enemy in all these other areas, the Lord's like, "Hey, you need to work on, you know, uh, forgiveness first, you know, and um, and and I'll say this is, uh, I've helped thousands of people, taking them through these sessions, and the Lord specifically spoke to me about these are called soul wounds. When we get hurt, we get wounded.

>> You ask me about the soul on

>> and our souls, our mind, our will, and our emotion. And we've all been hurt. We've all got soul wounds. Everyone. Not one person on this earth has not been hurt and wounded by someone.

>> Okay.

>> And so when you're growing up, you tend to get hurt and wounded by those you are around the most. Yes, sir.

>> Which are your father and mother because they're not healed of their hurts and their wounds. Yes.

>> So they're getting struggles with these demonic spirits. And again, a percentage of them can be regular churchgoers. They could be the Pharisees. you know, they could be prideful and then they're just pointing out everything and judging you, you know, in an unrighteous way and then that hurts you and that wounds you. So, soul wound, you know, it can be physical abuse, sexual abuse, of course, but more often than not, it's going to be emotional. So, if you have a father that did not validate you,

>> if you had a father that rejected you, if you had a mother that controlled you and you couldn't make your own decisions, you had to do everything that she said. And so many people have been hurt and when rejection is one of the biggest uh emotions that people get hurt by. They feel rejected. They feel not good enough. Those are like the top two that I've seen and it resonates with so many people. I mean everybody I take through a session, you know, well I felt rejected. I felt not good enough. I felt unworthy. I felt unheard, unvalued. Or the father, you know, they told them that they were fat, they were ugly, you know, and then it's the self-fulfilling prophecy. They start to actually either overeat or they do things to make themselves say, "Well, you think I'm ugly. I'm gonna really make myself that. Then I'll validate that." You know, it's horrible. It's a curse.

>> Let me jump in. Let me jump in and say something with on this note. God had to reveal to me, and I I share this all the time, but you made it so much more explicit now. I used to think that I had such an issue with the pornography and the masturbation until I realized that it was literally chained to the soul wound.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And so often times we we like to get into behavior modification,

>> right?

>> And there would be times that I would stop I would stop or when I find myself going into it literally I always give this example. I hate limema beans, so I don't buy limema beans. But I hate pornography. But I find myself going to it, hating it, watching it, hating it, and hating myself after it. I'm like, God, this don't make no sense. I don't eat lime beans. I hate lime beans, so I don't buy them. How am I indulging in something that I swear that I hate? And so I realized that I was so busy trying to modify the behavior or muffle the sin and not paying attention to the real soul wound that was associated. Those feelings, those emotions, those states of not being accomplished or feeling rejected or

>> Yes.

>> feeling lonely, whatever those things are. Yes.

>> I didn't realize they were tied together.

>> Yes. Yeah. So what happens and we get hurt. We get wounded when we're a kid. Okay.

>> We got all these hurts. We got all these wounds and there's demons that attached to our soul because of that. When it comes to pornography, you know, we were innocent at one point until we were exposed to that, you know, and when we're exposed to that, then there's lust demon that attaches to our soul. So that lustful demon will keep giving you a lot of thoughts to try to remind you, oh, you should look at this. You don't you remember that that naked person, this naked, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you'll start to have the feelings of, "Oh boy, if I end up masturbating, I'm going to feel that high again." That's why it's so addictive, just like cocaine, is because there's a high attached to it. So to get healed and to get delivered is important because you can't behaviorally modify and change as long as those demonic spirits still have legal rights to your soul because they'll keep reminding you all day long over and over again. You might be good for 3 days, four days or 5 days, maybe a week. Yeah. You know, but then all of a sudden you start getting these thoughts coming in and you you don't take them captive and you get these images coming in and it's and and then you oftenimes can be triggered because you feel alone. You feel rejected. So it's like, well then I'm not going to feel alone, rejected. I'm going to do this. I'm going to feel good for a few seconds

>> and then it's gone. And then you feel so guilty and you feel like ah and you hate yourself and and then the enemy blames you and says look how bad and dirty that you are. You're like, "Oh yes, I'm horrible. I'm scum." And they're like, "Yes, you are." So they tempt you, tempt you, tempt you. Once you do it, then they blame you, blame you, shame you. And so to get those wounds healed is critical to being delivered from all of these behaviors. So, and how the Lord's had me do this is let's say it's your father that hurt you. You know, most people are going to have hurts, wounds from their father. And so, I'll ask the person when I'm taking them through a session, do you know how your dad got hurt and wounded? Because a lot of them don't. More of them know about how their mom got hurt and because she talks about it, but the dads tend not to.

>> So, they're like, "I don't know. I don't know. He was just horrible to me. He was mean. He was judgmental. He was he was awful." And then I'm like, "What would you like to know?" Because if you can see what God knows, guess what? You can forgive. It softens your heart. Oh my gosh. So you can truly forgive from your heart. So then what I do is have them close their eyes and I just say, "Okay, I asked Jesus for you to come and to show them or speak to them about their dad. Let them see their dad from your perspective." And it takes like 30 seconds and the Lord reveals to them or speaks to them and they're like, afterwards I'm like, "Okay, what'd you hear? What'd you see?" And the Lord's like, "Well," or the person's like, "The Lord showed me my dad was hurt by his dad." And I'm like, "And and do you ever sense that? Did you ever sense that?" He goes, "Yeah." He goes, "He never really wanted to be around his dad. They weren't affectionate or anything. Never hugged, you know." I'm like, "Okay, well then that makes sense. He got hurt and wounded by his dad. And now he hurt and wounded you. Hurting people hurt people. It's because they have demonic strongholds they're not delivered from. And they can go to church all they want. But if they've never got those wounds healed, those demons will keep tormenting them. and they'll keep behaving in ways that are not the way they should. So then to get healed, what the Lord showed me to do is just to say this, have them close their eyes and then say, "Heavenly Father, I choose to forgive my father for causing me to feel." And then they name off all those emotions. And I'll say, "How'd your dad? How how'd you cause you to feel? I felt rejected. I felt bitter. I felt angry. I felt not good enough. I felt unvalued. I felt unheard. I felt um b like a burden. I was a burden. He never wanted me, you know. And so then after they've named them off, then I say, "Okay, now say, I give all those wounds to you, Jesus, and I ask you to heal me now." And then they do that. They give it to Jesus. Jesus comes and he heals them. And then all I do as a deliverance minister is say, "I command every demonic spirit that attached to your soul from your father to now be gone in Jesus' name. Any damage that was done, I command that it be repaired in Jesus' name. Amen." They take a couple of deep breaths. Sometimes they yawn and they feel lighter is normally what they comment. Wow, I feel lighter or I feel better. I'm like, good. Let's go on to the next wound. Go on to their mother. We go through we go through all these wounds. Typically, it takes about 30 minutes for the average person. You know, the average person I'd take us through a session is probably 50 years old. So, so if they're a kid, if they're younger, then it's much faster because they have less time to see hurt and wounded. Yes.

>> You know, they haven't been married yet. Oh my god. Well, let me let me ask you this. Um because you're leading in deliverance.

>> I used to feel like with deliverance it was more of a power kind of thing like I'm so anointed I can cause these demons to leave. But why the way you're explaining it is

>> it's about that legal right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean is there anointing on me? Sure. But I I never, you know, I I don't need to mention it, you know. I mean, in fact, before I even started doing this, the Lord said, Nelson, he goes, "You need to walk in humility and purity."

>> Oo.

>> Because he said, "Those are the two things that the enemy will try to come against you with. Got to walk in sexual purity and you got to walk in humility."

>> Oh my gosh.

>> This is not about you. He goes, and so I've never, I guess, viewed myself as, oh, you're, you know, that's why I'm like, I don't like titles.

>> Mhm.

>> Where people ask me what your title? I'm a kid from a cornfield. That's my title. So,

>> so, but it's true to walk in the minute because really what it is is is and I tell people I can't get anyone delivered that doesn't want to

>> talk. If person does not want to be healed and delivered, I'm I can't override their free will no more than Jesus couldn't override the free will of the Pharisees. He couldn't just go on there and say, "I'm going to command all y'all demons to be gone." You know, he couldn't because they have a free will. That's that's the key. And that's why when I'm taking a person through this, they have to forgive from their hearts. It's up to them, you know. And I explain that to them. I'm like, I can't get you delivered. If a person's got a strong Jezebel spirit, it's very hard for them. You know, they'd be considered a narcissist. And most people say there's no hope for them. Well, we've seen thousands of narcissists that have been healed and then delivered and changed and been very loving. You know, I I remember one testimony from a couple that the husband didn't want anything to do with my ministry. The wife found it. She loved it. She went through, got herself healed and delivered. He refused to, so she divorced him. Well, then he started watching on his own. And then after several months, um, he even drove all the way from Iowa to Chicago, uh, he ended up getting delivered. And he said, "How I knew I was delivered was I was no longer selfish. I wanted to see what I could do for other people." Oh my gosh.

>> To help them. And I'm like, "Yeah, same here." I go, "I remember when I was delivered." I go, it was no longer about I want to be a millionaire. I want to see have people do things for me. It's like I want to do things for you.

>> Oh.

>> And so he got delivered. They got remarried. And now they've been happily married for I don't know three years now.

>> You giving me so much hope when I'm hear when I'm hearing this. But when you're talking about the legal right and not wanting to be delivered, it makes me feel like man, God honors agreement.

>> God the same way God honors covenant. And I guess covenant and agreement kind of move hand in hand. Spiritually, the principle spiritually is like, man, agreements are honored. If if I say I want a demon, then you can't cast it out of me. If I say I want this, then you if I don't want to let this go, then literally I'm rejecting you because I'm in agreement with that.

>> So, I'm going to share this. The Holy Spirit just brought this up. There's a lady lived in uh Las Vegas and she was in a mental facility. She had schizophrenia, okay?

>> And she wanted to be healed and delivered. So, while she was in there, uh, I was able to talk to her on the phone, and we were getting the wounds healed from her past. And one of the wounds was from her father. And when it came to the, uh, demonic spirits, Legion, which we know Jesus cast out Legion, Legion was like the number one demon, which has about 6,000 demons that report to it. If you do the research, they called um, a uh, foot soldier from Rome. If there were 6,000 of them, they called them a legion because they were many. Of course, when the demon spoke from the man of he said, "We're a legion because we're many." And then they cast, you know, Jesus cast them into the pigs. 2,000 pigs had drowned themselves into the Sea of Galilee. And uh you do the math, 6,000 demons divided by 2,000 pigs is three demons per pig to drive them to their death. Suicidal thoughts is largely legion that is causing the person to hear all those thoughts. So, so anyways, here she is. And Legion, uh, I commanded Legion to tell her, you know, what's your legal right to stay? And it told her she made an idol of listening to country music songs. She made an idol. She loved her country music. So then I asked her, I was like, "Is that true?" And she said, "Yeah." I said, 'Well, then I can't cast out legion because until if you want to repent for that and no longer do that. And she so she had to think about I'm like, "Think about this." I go, "Because this is a major thing." I go, "You you obviously love this country music." So I go, "But that's a right that it has because of that. You made an idol of it." And so she thought about it for about 30 seconds and she said, "Okay, I don't want to listen to country music anymore. I'm I'm going to repent." And so she chose to repent. She said, "I repent for listening to country music and making it an idol in Jesus' name." And then Legion commanded it. "Do you have any other rights to stay?" He said, "No." So I said, "Okay, I command all 6,000 demons report to you be gone in Jesus' name." Amen. And you know, and any damage that you caused, command that to be repaired in Jesus name. Well, then I ended up, my wife and I went out to Las Vegas and met her and her dad, and she was in her right mind.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> Very sweet lady or girl. She's probably like I think 22 23 years old and and she had uh um uh restored her relationship with her father. He was there too at the meeting. So they hugged. It was just wonderful. I'm like yes, thank you Lord.

>> That is insane to me.

>> I know. I mean cuz some of the things that we have as an idol, you know, it could be food. We make an idol of food because we want to eat because it's a comfort food. And it all goes back to being hurt and wounded when we were a kid. Oo,

>> you know, you know, and I know of uh I hear this or I see it all the time is where you've got say say a girl gets molested or raped when she's little. You know, then there's going to be demonic spirits that are going to attack her. She's going to be angry. She's going to be, you know, most of the time most time it's hard for them to forgive and then that could take over. Well, I've seen a percentage of those where, you know, if if they were physically attractive attractive um during that time, there often times there are a lot of men that have lust that will be drawn to them because of the lustful spirit in them attaching to the demonic spirit that was on her.

>> Oh my.

>> And she's just like, so what does she do is as she gets older, she's like, well, gee, if I eat a lot, I'll gain weight and then those men won't lust after. Sabotage.

>> Yes. Sabotage.

>> Change the way they dress. Sometimes they go for the opposite sex and change into masculine clothes.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

>> You know what you just said? You know how many people I've had come to this podcast and share what Oh my gosh. What you just said was something happened to them when they were younger

>> and something attaches itself to them. was one one of the guests called it a scent in the spirit that those that have that type of spirit are attracted to them and they they start to say there's something about me that's making this happen. Yes. The enemy accuses them and makes them feel like oh it's your fault. And then later on the enemy comes to water seeds and it's like it's not coincidences. These people are starting to come and with the same spirit, the same people are being attracted to them and they so much so begin to start

>> cursing themselves and believing that they're the problem.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. In fact, uh the Lord spoke to me about this and this is kind of what I see is about 85% of relationships in marriages and dating relationships are between one person who has the spirit of Jezebel and the other person who has the spirit of Ahab. and and you read the characteristics Jezebel are going to be controlling, manipulative, demanding, you know, prideful, arrogant, sexually impure, um, threatening, intimidating, are going to marry a person that is an Ahab. Ahabs tend to be more, uh, wanting people to like them, you know, look the other way instead of confronting. And, uh, there's a benefit they get from having a Jezebel as a spouse. Jezebel can be on a woman or a man. Ahab can be on a man or a woman, but and and you see in the Bible where Ahab wanted Nabbath's vineyard

>> and Nabbath said, "No, not going to give it to you." So, he goes back and pouts about it and then Jezebel sees him not eating and laying in the bed and why? What's What's wrong? Well, uh, I couldn't get Nab's vineyard. He wouldn't sell it to me. She's like, "Ah, you're the king. Well, then I'll do it for you." Oh, you will? Oh, you're the best, Jesse. And so then she comes up with a plan or rather her demons.

>> Yes,

>> demons will give a lot of thoughts and plots and plans in a person's mind.

>> They're very good at giving them all this stuff to do to try to hurt people or take advantage of them.

>> So of course she invites him to a banquet Nabbath and then they have two scoundrels or you can call them flying monkeys today for narcissists that lie and say, "Oh, you you blasphemed God. You're coming against the king." And then they took him outside and stoned him and killed him. And then Nabbath got or Ahab got what he wanted. So that's why a lot of times Ahabs will draw to the Jezebels is they'll be more scary, intimidating, demanding, but they can also turn on the Ahab and be very controlling, manipulative. Oh my god.

>> you know, and then that that's what ruins the marriage is a person that's not healed of those wounds and they're hearing all these demonic spirits all day long thinking that they're justified and then they never can look in the mirror because the demons don't want them to be honest and saying, "Well, you need to look in the mirror with a log in your eye." No, they're looking out the window and blaming everything on the spouse that is the victim, the true victim. And the Jezebels will see in themselves as a victim and say, "Oh, I'm just I've been hurt and wounded so much." Well, they were when they were kids, but then they turn into the abuser along the road.

>> Oh, so

>> man,

>> I mean, this describes 85% of marriages. So, if we get people healed and delivered, guess what? No more fighting, no more striving, no more arguing. They actually listen and obey to the Lord, and then they can submit to one another like the Bible talks about. So many misogynistic men want their women to simply bow down to them. And I'm like, don't you dare. I go if he's not submitted to God, you are not to submit to him. Look what happened to Ananas and Safhiv. Acts chapter 5 verse 1-11. Safh listened to her husband. Submitted to him and then he caused her to lie about how much money they got for their property. Lie. He lied to Peter first. Then he ended up lying to the Holy Spirit ultimately and he died. And then three hours later she comes in and goes along with it. She submitted. Okay. Well, and she could have she had time. She could have said no. Yes, he lied. My husband caused me to lie, but she went along with it.

>> Oh, and it cost her her life. She died.

>> So, so there's so much stuff that we end up hearing from the standard churches

>> that are not right.

>> And once I started seeing all this and and being exposed to all this and then uh you know, it's just like, oh lord, the church is a mess,

>> man. Talk to me about I saw this on your page. You talked about soloulish prayers.

>> Mhm.

>> I never heard that before.

>> Yeah. So prayer is kind of like witchcraft. You're trying to make a person do what you want and and in a really in a really uh true form, it is witchcraft. So you're praying a prayer like it could be a person that you want to have them marry you. So you might be praying a prayer that will cause them to find you desirable and you keep praying that Lord just cause them to want me. and you know and that's manipulation that's trying out it's should be free will if the person's interested or not you know um other things that you could see with people in the church where they want to be like people that have the Jezebel spirit want to control other people they want to lead other people they want to be up on the stage they're very prideful so they could be praying oh Lord please just I just uh pray that the pastor will see my gifts and that he'll use me so I just pray in the you know in the name of Jesus that he will promote me so I'll be in charge of the deliverance ministry or I'll be in charge of the worship ministry, you know. So, they'll be praying manipulative prayers.

>> Oo.

>> And that's witchcraft. You know, witchcraft is basically trying to control another person to make them do what you want, not what God wants.

>> Well, Jesus even said, "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

>> Yes.

>> We're not manipulating and imposing our will into people's lives. So, I've never looked at it like that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of people they'll be praying and that's what they're doing. You know, when we're healed and delivered, then you just pray, "Lord, whatever your will is, whatever your perfect will is, you know, for my life and for theirs,

>> make them love me." A lot of people get into witchcraft because they're just trying to get somebody to love them.

>> Yes. Because they've been hurt and they've been wounded and then they start learning that there's some power that they can tap into that is actually deep, dark, and it's witchcraft. You know, I knew of a lady that uh the Lord had connected me to and uh um she ended up giving me this uh ring and it was in my car and I was driving around the United States and I had pain in my sciatic for 6 months and I kept praying for it and I've been seeing healings in my my body, you know, throughout my life. Sometimes, you know, they were progressive, more oftenimes progressive than they were instant. Uh but with that, it was horrible. I was like, why am I got this for six months? I'm like, "This is crazy. It's so painful. I've never had a sciatic pain before." So, I have a new appreciation for people that have that. It's like a rubber band that's been tied tight and you can't even get comfortable trying to sleep, let alone trying to stand on it. And so, the Lord gave me a dream finally after six months of enduring it.

>> And in the dream, he revealed to me that the ring she gave me was cursed. And because I kept it, that made a contract, spiritual contract with her where she could curse me. And I'm like, "Are you kidding me?" So I threw it away and over the next couple of hours, the pain left and never came back again.

>> You're kidding me.

>> And I'm like, "Lord, why didn't you show me this like 6 months ago? I was in so much pain." He's like, "Well, because you're going to be teaching on this. You're going to be teaching on witchcraft." And uh experience is always the best teacher. Even though it can be the most painful, you will not soon forget this. If it was just a couple of days, you would have forgotten it. But because it was 6 months, you will not forget it. And you can teach and and warn other people because there's a lot of clueless Christians that are in the church that these witches are duping and and people talk about, well, a curse without a cause. I'm like, well, there's a lot of causes that you have that give rights to these demons, and you have no clue. Oh,

>> because the church is not teaching this.

>> First of all, you said some stuff right now. First of all, that's going to set somebody free because the the whisper of why me is in a lot of our prayers. And so, what you just shared, you you said, God, why didn't you reveal it sooner? He said, because I need you to help people.

>> Yes. And so when when you were sharing earlier about those people that have been victimized by abuse or mistreated

>> and you said how demons then take advantage of those very people, it almost feels like, well, God, that's not fair.

>> Mhm.

>> Something happened to me. I didn't invite this. I didn't ask for it. Now I'm suffering.

>> Yes.

>> I'm being tormented for something that I did not do. Could you help someone navigate those thoughts?

>> Yeah. I've asked that to the Lord. I'm like, "Lord, it doesn't seem fair." I go, "Because we're kids. We're innocent. And then we get hurt and wounded or we get molested and then we get demons on top of all that."

>> Come on.

>> And he said, "That's how he set up this world is free will." And he said, "I don't like it when there's people getting hurt and wounded." Absolutely, I don't like that. But he says, "I cannot override everybody and protect everybody from those who have been hurt and wounded." He said, "If the church was doing their job, they would be teaching this." You know, it takes in, you know, I think in my case, it takes a guy from Indiana who never wanted to be in ministry, who's a business guy, has to go through stuff in order to learn this and then be launched largely outside of some of these churches because the churches don't want people to get healed and delivered. They'll say they do, but of course you can imagine that the leaders have stuff. They don't want to be exposed for that. So, but that's exactly what happens is we get hurt, we get wounded. And if the church was teaching this, they would teach about forgiveness and how that breaks the rights of a lot of demonic spirits when we choose to forgive from our hearts. Matthew 18:es 21-35. And then pride, you know, God hates pride. Proverbs 6:16-19, there's six things the Lord hates, seven that are abomination. First things are arrogant or a proud look.

>> Yes.

>> Pride. Pride got Lucifer kicked out of heaven. So there's a lot of people, you know, m uh Job 41:34, Leviathan spirit, pride, the king over all the children of pride. So this is this is a good teaching too is when we get hurt, we get wounded as children. And that's when Leviathan starts to speak to us, starts to attach to us, starts to tell us that, "Hey, you know what? You're getting hurt and wounded by your father, by your mother. You know, you can't trust them." You're like, "Yeah, yeah, makes sense." Well, I'll protect you, though. Just listen to me. Let me protect you.

>> I'll protect you.

>> All right. Yeah. So, we get duped by these thoughts that are demonic. And then it will cause us to have our pride puffed up. And then it'll say, "You know what? if people just listen to you, it's everybody else's fault, not yours. You're good. All your decisions are good. You're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And so when I started helping people get uh where they would repent for their pride, humble themselves, they would need to forgive people, too. That hurt them from their hearts. But what I noticed is Leviathon, when you read about it, it's similar to like an alligator. It says the rows of scales are its pride. Has lots of teeth. So, it's like a a marine spirit, a demonic uh water spirit. But, uh when I started getting people set freed from that and delivered, I noticed that it would unwrap from their back and their neck and their spine. That most people would have back pain, neck pain.

>> Well, let me look out my neck right now.

>> Yeah. They they'd have back pain, neck pain, headaches. They'd have insomnia, couldn't sleep well at night because it would steal their dreams. They'd have confusion in their minds. you know, they'll they'll think someone that's speaking to them is saying something that they never said. Like, case in point, there was a couple in Indiana married that the wife told the husband, "I'm going to go into town and get some groceries. I'll see you in a while."

>> He thought she said, "I'm going into town to the bar and I'll see you whenever."

>> And she's like, "What?" And he's like, he swore that that's what she said. He's like, she's like, "No, I didn't." Well, that's what Leviathan told him in his mind. So he heard something that was never spoken. So it causes lots of confusion and lots of arguments in marriages, lots of arguments. And then it also causes you to misremember things sometimes conveniently. So if you said and did some things that were bad, you'll leave that out when you remember it. Well, I never said that. I never did that. And if you try to read the Bible or Christian books, it'll put you to sleep. So

>> Oh, talk loud. Talk loud. So, and it will so when we get people delivered from that again, you know, make sure that they have have repented for their pride is like the number one reason why. Um, and we command Leviathan to go. Then I command healing to take place in their body. And often times their spines will be aligned perfectly. They'll feel it go pop because I used to have scoliosis.

I used to have headaches all the time. I haven't had a headache since I was delivered in 2008.

"No way."

"17 years. No headaches. Not taking Tylenol, ibuprofen, nothing."

"Yo, y'all listening to this?"

"Amazing. Can you tell me what it..."

"Well, if someone had the Leviathan spirit..."

"Mhm."

"...what would, how would they know? Like, apart from maybe some of the physical things, because I'm hearing that there's neck, insomnia, and things like that, but how do they speak and what, what do they say? How do they think?"

"Yeah, normally, um, they'll think that everything that they say and do is right. They won't listen to somebody else, like their spouse, especially. You know, the spouse might be saying, 'Hey, listen. You know, you made a mistake here or there.' They're like, 'Nope, nope, nope. I didn't do that. I didn't say that.' Oftentimes, it goes back to their childhood because if they made a mistake, their parent would say something over and over to them to berate them."

"Oh my god."

"So, man, I can't make a mistake, you know? So, as they become an adult, and then the demons keep telling them that you're right, you're right. Everything that you said and did is right. Everybody else that comes against you, they're wrong. It's them that's the problem. And you're like, 'Yeah, yeah.' So, that's a lot. And then a lot of it is they'll hear people say things that they never said. So, it will cause a lot of confusion. And when they try to remember sequences of events, they will either conveniently leave out stuff that they did that was bad, or they'll just confuse things a lot. But they'll have often times back pain, neck pain, headaches, insomnia, and, uh, they fall asleep and they try to read the Bible or Christian books, or they're in the church and they're trying to listen, you know, it puts them to sleep. And I know one guy, um, true story, it was a great testimony where this husband and wife, she had, uh, uh, had some stuff that happened to her as a teenager, and so that impacted her. She got married to her high school sweetheart, and then they fought and strove and argued, and then she divorced him."

"Well, then she got remarried to him later, and then she was getting ready to divorce him again. And then she came to one of my meetings that was in Indiana, and she said, when I was speaking, the Lord slowed everything down for her in her mind so she could hear what I was saying. And as I was saying that to her, she knew that's what I've got. I have Leviathan. I have Jezebel."

"Oh."

"And so she repented and she got delivered. When she went back home, um, and I've, I've interviewed them on my YouTube channel. I'm like, 'How did you know that she was delivered?' He goes, 'She, uh, actually took responsibility and said she was sorry for things. She never did that before.'"

"So, that's a trait."

"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They, you know, people won't ever normally, they, they just won't, you know? Or if they do, they, they make it so it sounds like it's really somebody else's fault, but I'll own a little bit of it or whatever. But..."

"...but never fully humility, repentant, and sorry for what they..."

"Yeah. So, anyway, changed their lives and it helped their children too, because you can imagine if you're a child."

"Well, oh yeah, I forgot. Holy Spirit just reminded me this. This is crazy. So she would go for times without speaking to her husband. Silent treatment. She would go often times, you know, a week. Weeks. A long time. Weeks. A long time. And but she told me the longest she ever went, and they had children in the home, and I still can't believe it. A year and a half."

"That's..."

"I don't think it's possible."

"That's what I'd be like, 'How can that be?' But she's like, 'Yes, it was. I did it.' She goes, 'Because the demons kept telling her that you had to win, basically, that your husband's out there trying to plot and and and you have to go two or three steps ahead of him.' So, she didn't trust him because the demons lied to her and said it was all his fault. And so she said when she got delivered, it's like it changed the whole atmosphere in their home and their kids all improved. Like their grades improved, they had more peace."

"What would you say to someone? Because even for me, some of the things that I've kind of said, 'Okay, that's an emotional response to this, and there's an emotional response to that.' It sounds like there seems to be a heavy, heavy weight in recognizing that there are spiritual implications to this. What would you say if someone says, 'You're over-spiritualizing a lot of this stuff'?"

"I'd say, uh, I've seen thousands and thou, I've had thousands and thousands of testimonies from people online saying, 'My life was changed because I got healed of my wounds. I forgave. I repented. And I got delivered.' Because this is what happens. This is the truth. When a person's not healed of their wounds and delivered, they're going to trigger. They're going to be hearing all these thoughts in their their mind, and they're going to have these emotions that are going to feel very real to them because they're not healed. So, they're going to overreact to things. And so, um, and they can't behaviorally change."

"Wow."

"You can't behaviorally kick out a demonic spirit that's got a right to stay."

"So, what do you think about therapy? Because this sounds like the complete version of therapy."

"Yeah, it is. I've had people that are psychologists, psychiatrists. I've taken medical doctors through sessions."

"No."

"Mhm. One guy from San Diego is a medical doctor, and, uh, I mean, it's, and more than, I mean, just therapists are learning this now. We're teaching them, and counselors, and pastors, because this is really the most effective way to get a person healed and delivered. Because there's some that do inner healing, which is fine. But if you don't deal with commanding the demons to go, the demons are going to still be there, and they're going to keep tormenting the person. So, just because they forgive everybody, you know, the demons have not been kicked out yet, they're going to stay there, and they're, they're not going to leave. They don't want to go. And if you command the demons to go without getting the wounds healed, then they're going to still feel and trigger from unforgiveness that they've not forgiven people that hurt them. And then that'll give the rights to the demons to come back."

"Oh my gosh. So, and, and again, I've been to, uh, counselors that don't get this, and all they do is talk about, 'Okay, how the person hurt you or wound you.' Some of them will talk about forgiveness, but, but like, none of them deal with the demonic, demonic stuff, commanding them to go. So, it's kind of a band-aid approach that does not completely remove the rights of the demons and then change the person from the inside."

"Ooh."

"You know, if you don't deal with the getting the wounds healed, forgiving, repenting, getting delivered of the demons, then that's why that's why the church largely is still a mess. And of course, those outside the church."

"Wow."

"It's, it's sad, you know. So, man, you, you're blowing my mind. I, I know I kind of gave giving you a lot of questions. I got a couple more, um, in relation to, um, the anointing. You, you talked a little bit about when you're anointed, then it seems like the attacks are increased. It seems like you become a target. How does someone know? This is my question for you. How do I know if I'm anointed, if I'm chosen, or if I'm oppressed?"

"What's the difference?"

"Well, you can be both."

"Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, my gosh."

"And I'll say this, is a lot of times people think that, 'Oh, he's talking about being possessed.' I'm like, 'Nope. Never once did I say possessed.' I said, 'I'll say oppressed.'"

"What's the difference?"

"The big difference is with oppression, which is the majority of everybody that's out there in the world, you know, then you can still get healed and you can still get delivered. With the possession, you know, it makes it much, much, much harder to get a person set free and delivered, you know, because they've kind of given themselves over to those demonic spirits. You know, I've seen a lot of people that end up sadly getting dementia, and they're not in the right mind anymore. And the Lord spoke to me about that, and he said, you know, the majority of them have been hearing these demonic spirits throughout their life, and then sadly, they have legal rights. They've kind of given over to them at the end. I've not seen anybody been delivered from dementia. They might have been somewhere, but I've not seen it because you can't really get through to the person at that point. Um, sadly. But yeah, most all of us are oppressed. Oppressed just means that you're, uh, having some interference from the demonic spirits, getting some thoughts from the enemy that's causing you to not be at peace and so forth. Um, you know, cuz again, if you're hearing, you know, demonic spirits and they're telling you that, you know, blaming you, shaming you, tempting you, all these things, and then you end up giving over to it, then, you know, you're being oppressed. And, and, and most church leaders are going to be oppressed themselves until they have forgiven everyone from their hearts, repented for their pride, you know, and repented for the sin, and then seen the change over from the struggles with the flesh to walking in the fruit of the spirit. You know, Matthew chapter 7:21-23, 'Lord, Lord, look at all I've done. I've cast out demons, prophesied, done many wonders in your name.' Lord says, 'Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness,' which means sin. So, if you're regularly practicing sin, that means you're getting pretty good at justifying it."

"You know, Galatians 5:16-26 talks about all this fruit of the flesh. And it says, 'Those who regularly practice those things will not inherit the kingdom of God,' because you're, you're justifying it, you know. And again, people I've seen gone through the, these sessions and been healed and delivered, they see the flesh goes away. They don't have the desire for that anymore. So, how do you know when when you're anointed? You know, like, um, I remember when I first started attending some of these Christian conferences, I never had a word of knowledge over me. Never heard from the Lord."

"No way."

"Could pray in the spirit, but it wasn't until I was 41..."

"...that I attended. It was a Morris Cerillo. Have you ever heard of Cerillo?"

"I never heard of the guy."

"Oh, okay."

"Very interesting voice..."

"...when he talked. Short little guy that, uh, so was from New Jersey. And, um, anyway, amazing anointing on him. And I remember he talked about that. He goes, 'Everybody wants my anointing, but few of you want to pay the cost that it takes.' And when I heard that, I'm like, 'Well, what does that mean?' First of all, what's an anointing? You know, I had no idea. I'm like, 'Do you pour oil over yourself? Is that the anointing?'"

"Well, then when I started to to walk in this, then what I noticed is like the Holy Spirit came upon me pretty strong. And when I would do it, it was like I, I knew what to say. I know where, what to talk about or what to focus on. And then a lot of times the people would tell me, 'I can feel the anointing. It's very strong.' Like even this last week, I was doing some sessions via Zoom, and the people could both, uh, two of them said, 'I can feel the anointing. It's very strong.' And, you know, and so what I've learned is that when a person is anointed, you'll see, um, stronger results than a, a typical person that's not. You know, a person that's not really that anointed will be trying to make themselves appear to be anointed. They'll try to manipulate other people, manipulate favor, try to manipulate, uh, whatever it might be. It could be pity, could be, uh, 'feel sorry for me,' and then try to manipulate people for money and things like that. People that are anointed, you know, they're going to walk in, they, at least they better be walking in humility and the fruit of the spirit."

"Yes."

"You know, they better be taking that first and foremost, and then the, the results will play out, and then there'll be attacks. Sure, that's part for the course. The Lord always told me, I'm like, 'But I don't like the attacks.' Attacks aren't fun. He's like, 'Well, you know, welcome to, welcome to the club of attacks because, you know, Jesus and, you know, you know, be glad you didn't have, you know, Paul's assignment.' And I'm like, 'Yeah.' I go, 'That wouldn't have been fun.' You know, and, uh, but those who are truly anointed are going to have to have a lot of, you know, spiritual warfare that will come against them and things that are hard and not fun to go through, and attacks and lies, false accusations. You know, the people that are anointed will have a lot of that. And what the Lord's shown me to do is to simply keep on doing what I've called you to do."

"Because this is important. And he goes, 'Just forget. Put that out of your mind.' Whatever. Whoever is saying stuff that's not the, the truth. And I'm like, 'Okay, I'll do that.' So, it's not easy, but you have to do what you're called to do. And then the fruit speaks for itself."

"You talk about how sometimes the enemy wants to provoke people to defilement, especially when you're anointed. How does that has any of that played out where it's just you just want to, let me just be honest about today. I'm going to tell you something. Um, I had to repent. I had to tell my men's group I had to repent. I was, um, on my way to pick up my daughter from, um, the airport as an unaccompanied minor, and I got in the line. I've never been in such a long line because I have all the TSA pre-checks. I have everything. So, I couldn't speed pass. But this time, because I didn't have a ticket, they said I had to get in the general boarding, and I had to go on the ground, and it was like crazy lines. Got in the line. After waiting for 30 minutes, a guy said, 'You got to go to the back of the line because you can't be in this line.' And I was just like, 'I got to get my daughter. My daughter's been waiting for maybe 45 minutes by now. I got to get my daughter.' I'm not listening to you, guy. And so got up after waiting about an hour, got to the front of the line. And the guy was like very aggressive with me. And he was just like, 'I told you, you go to the back of the line, you get out this line.'"

"And when I tell you that you could spit in my face, you could slap me. But I wanted my daughter so bad. I was in his face."

"Okay."

"I was in his face, and I was just like, man, I said, 'Just look him in his eye,' and I was just like, 'Man, get out of my way,' or whatever the case may be."

"And I said some, you know, some words. I just wasn't kind. Not to curse him out or anything. I just, I just wasn't kind. But I just felt like, oh my gosh, this was an opportunity that I could have reflected Christ. I was, I'm just like, 'Can I see this man again to, to just to say I'm sorry, to show him the love of God?' And I'm just like, 'How? I'm not a person that walks around with anger. I'm not a.' But how did I get to a point where I was able to get beside myself, whether whatever the case?"

"What, what I, uh, recommend people, um, you know, because I had had to walk my, my process out as well. Um, but what I noticed is when there were certain situations that I had to go through that maybe I got a little more upset about something, is when I was back at peace, then I would say, 'Okay, I give to you, Lord, my anger or my, uh, frustration, whatever it might have been, and I ask you to heal me in Jesus name.' And then when you do that, and then he heals you, then the next time something that happens similar, you will tend to be able to have even more patience, you know, longsuffering. The Lord took me through some experiences that were extremely hard to go through. Very hard. I ended up writing a book called 'Loving Like Christ.' The Lord had me write because of the some of the stuff that I had to go through. It was extremely, extremely hard."

"And I had to bite my tongue, bite my tongue, bite your tongue, bite my tongue over and over and over and over thousands of times. And, um, but what that did in me is developed, uh, a, a very strong, uh, self-control, uh, walking in self-control, but also, uh, understanding that other people, other people that are out there in this world, you know, 98% are not healed, not delivered. So, every time, like if my wife and I are out in public, and there's somebody that might behave in a weird way or a mean way or whatever, you know, I always just say, 'Well, they're not healed. They're not delivered.' That's a simple, the long and the simple of it, because that's the truth."

"And we, person, we personalize that stuff. We take it personal when the enemy might be using someone, or the fact that you bring it back to a wound that takes it to a different place now, because if you're wounded now, >> I, I want to be part of the process of bringing healing. Yeah. Not wanting to continue to make our wounds kind of compete. And so that changes my life. But also too, I can't take this stuff personal because if I am called, if I am anointed, then I know that I'm a target. One, two, >> the enemy is going to use a human being that he's trying to oppress."

"Yeah."

">> To aggravate me. Absolutely."

"One, I shouldn't let that happen to defile me. And two, I'm supposed to be an ambassador of reflection to him. So, there's two things that are happening that I don't want the enemy to rob me of."

"Yes."

"Yeah. 2 Timothy 2:23-26. 'A servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle to all, in hopes that they will see the error of their ways and come to their senses, if God perhaps will grant them repentance.' So, I, I remember that, uh, the one of the guys that mentored me said, Nelson, he goes, 'You need to get to the point where you don't strive over anything.' You know, you don't strive. You don't argue because if you do, all kinds of demonic stuff can happen because now you're upset, now you're angry, now you said something that you can't refract, and then the enemy will remind you, as well as the person you said it to."

"Oh my god."

"What you said over and over again, you know? So, it's like, yeah, I go, we, so I, I learned to, you know, if it's, if it's an important issue, then we can talk about it, and we might have to talk about it a little stronger, but we always do it in love, you know? And then love covers a multitude of sins, so it's true. Um, but, yeah, in the case of a child, when we want to see our child, then that can often times churn up that, 'Listen, I got to protect. I don't want my daughter being out here, you know, by herself. I got to will find her.' Yeah. And so I can see and get that. I think most people can relate. I think Jesus could probably relate to that, too."

"Thank you. That helped a little bit. But I definitely, you definitely are speaking to me now. And I, and what you said, a couple things you said that are going to help me, and I think it's going to help a lot of people. Um, you said asking God to heal me."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Because, because oftentimes it goes back to sometime, you know, you just ask the Lord, you know, 'Where did this start from? Where did I get my, my feelings of this? Where did it start from?' And the Holy Spirit will often times show you, 'Well, it happened when you were seven years old.' Oh, yeah. Holy Spirit just reminded me of this. So, true story. This lady, she was like 70 years old. 70. And, uh, she, uh, remembered when she was seven, she used to dance seductively, sexually for older men. Seven years old. And so I was talking to her, and I go, 'Do you know anything that happened prior to that?' And she said, 'No, I blocked it out.' Which can happen. You know, if we're a kid, something happens, then, uh, it blocks out. So, in her case, you know, I go, 'Do you want to know what happened?' And she's like, 'Yeah.' I'm like, 'Well, just close your eyes.' So, then I commanded the demonic strongman that knew what happened, which turned out to be Jezebel, uh, to come forward to speak to her, to tell her exactly what happened to her. So, it told her, it said, 'When you were age 3 to 5 years old, that you were sexually touched, molested multiple times by your oldest brother's best friend.' And when she heard that, she gasped. And I'm like, 'What?' She said, 'That explains everything.' I'm like, 'What?' She said, 'I never liked my oldest brother's best friend, and I never knew why.' I'm like, 'Well, then that would explain it. If he's molesting you from age 3 to five.' So, so then to get healed from it, I basically had her say, 'I choose to forgive my, you know, oldest brother's best friend for molesting me,' which would have caused me to feel, and she just named off violated, and all the things, guilt and shame and dirty and all that. And then she gave that all to Jesus, asked him to take it and heal her. And then I took authority, commanded the demonic stuff to go, and then she felt so much lighter, so much better. Cuz she said, 'What happened is she struggled with promiscuity throughout her life.' I'm like, 'Oh, well, yeah.' I go, 'It all went back to that.' I go, 'Had that never happened, you wouldn't have danced seductively when you were seven.' I go, 'So all this stuff, this explains people's lives.' And they're just like, 'Wow, why don't they do this?' And I'm like, 'Yeah.' I go, 'They should. Everybody should know how to do this because this dramatically changes people's lives and sets them free from demonic stuff that people don't want to talk about.'"

"Talk about what you have to offer because I, I know people are are hearing this stuff and they're just like, 'Oh, that's amazing. He has all the information.' But you also teach a class. Yeah. Not to mention this book. How can this book help us with what you're sharing?"

"Yeah. So, uh, the 'Freedom from Soul Wounds and Demons' book, uh, it's available on Amazon and paperback, Kindle, and Audible. And I'm the one that reads it on Audible."

"Okay, that was an easy book. I read all my books on Audible. And that's a great resource to have because what this was written for was to have people who have never understood the correlation between soul wounds, hurts, and wounds, and demonic spirits, and then how to forgive and how to get delivered. So, it's all written there in the book, and we've seen fabulous testimonies from people all over the world. So, that's first and foremost. Um, I, um, I've also, I, I have done personal sessions for people for the last, uh, well, for years, and, um, and I, I am, uh, pretty booked out for about 3 months now."

"Oh my gosh."

"Um..."

"People want healed and delivered. They're desperate. I mean, that's the truth. I would, if I, you know, and so I can't obviously take sessions with everybody in the whole world, but, uh, we have trained over the last year and a half, almost 500 students, um, around the world to have them understand how to get taking people through healing and deliverance, doing the same thing, you know, that I'm doing. And, uh, we, we teach classes or school every month, every month. Um, it's on, well, you sign up on basically Eventbrite, but you can go to our website, and it'll have a link to it. Uh, but I do do classes on Zoom. So, wherever you're at, like we had a guy this last Monday who, he, I, I would take some of the class people through some, some examples of a soul wound healing. And this guy, uh, brings up his video, and he is from, uh, Poland. Poland. He's originally from Nigeria."

"Oh."

"But, yeah, he's, uh, lives in Poland now, apparently. And, uh, he went through, and it, so it was like 3:00 in the morning his time, because I do, I do the classes at, uh, 8:00 Eastern until the 10:00, uh, Monday nights. And so people that the Lord's calling into the inner healing and deliverance ministry are doing this. We had one lady after only three classes, like, I do, it's four classes for the month. So, it's not an onerous process. I teach them the basics of how to do this. They read the books, and then they end up walking out and they see miracles. One lady, she went through three classes, didn't go through the fourth one yet. She was out of Chicago, and she had a friend of hers that was an ER doctor, medical doctor, that she took through a session. And that medical doctor, after she went through the session, said, 'I don't hear voices in my head anymore. I have peace.'"

"Let's go."

"And I..."

"So, we need to get, you know, everyone healed and delivered, no matter what their occupation is."

"Yes."

"Um,..."

"And this book is a, is biblically founded because some people be like, 'Oh, he has this special book with this strange material.'"

"Yeah."

"Yeah. It's got tons of scriptures in it that, uh, validate it, and people that have have read it have seen life. I mean, so many comments that are just, 'This changed my life. This changed my life.' You know, there's like, you know, they've read the Bible. I'm like, 'Absolutely. You need to read the Bible.' Absolutely. For yourself. Because a lot of times people are taught things in the church that are not what the Bible says. Oh, that's truth. I was until I started reading it. I'm like, 'Wait a minute. It doesn't. Why are people saying that?' I'm like, 'Oh my goodness, that's not the truth.'"

"Come on."

"So, anyway, it compliments obviously the Bible, but it teaches the correlation between the hurts and the wounds, and how there's demonic spirits. Whether you are a Christian, whether you have the Holy Spirit or not, you know, people need to hear that."

"Oh my gosh. Listen to me, sir. I know what's going to happen. So, what's going to happen is people are going to see this and they're going to say, 'Part one, part two, part three, part four, part five.' So, unfortunately for you, sir, it's likely that I may be seeing you again. I'm not sure what type of inconvenience that would be, but for those that are watching, I want you to make sure you click the link in the description. That way, you could get a hold of this book. I think everyone that follows this channel, you see these testimonies going forth, but you feel helpless. This book, like you said, compliments the scriptures to be able to kind of walk this stuff through. Some people are reading these books, reading this material, and they're getting set free."

"Yeah."

"Um, so I, I just think it, it's basic. It sounds basic, but this is lifegiving, and I want to thank you for it. And as well, those of you that want to be a part of this, this class where he's teaching these four sessions, I think that that is amazing. The link is going to be in the description, and everything that has to do with this man. So, y'all stop bombarding me and stop emailing me as much, and y'all can send those messages to him. And if this, this, um, session, this conversation impacted you, that's where you can message. I want to forward those emails back to, uh, the man of God. Um, just, if you were here, and after we pray, you might experience some things while we pray. You might hear some things while we pray. You, you might manifest, whatever it is, I want you to send those messages in. We want to encourage the man of God that, um, he's doing, he's on the right track. He's doing what God has called him to do. So, if you can, uh, there are people that are watching this that are just like, uh, I have soul wounds."

"Yeah. Yeah."

"Now, I, I want to know where that came from. I want to know why I feel like this. I want to know why I'm still hearing things. If you could pray with those people that are listening now."

"Yeah."

"Um, some of them may be saved. I pray that those are those people get saved. You could even pray a prayer of salvation. And then for those who know the Lord and are still experiencing that level of bondage, we want to pray for those."

"Yes."

"All right. So, thank you, heavenly Father, uh, for all that you, uh, want for us, Lord. You want us to be freed. You want us to be set free, healed, delivered. You want us to walk in the fruit of the spirit. You want us to be able to walk in our callings and help others to be healed, set free, delivered. So, I just thank you, heavenly Father, for those who are struggling, have been struggling. Lord, I'm going to pray, uh, an abridged, uh, version of a healing and deliverance. I want everyone to say this. Say, 'Heavenly Father, I choose to forgive everyone who has ever hurt me.' Say, 'I give to you all of my hurts and wounds, and I ask you to heal me.' Okay, now I'm going to pray. I take authority. I command every demonic spirit that would have attached to your souls to be gone to the pit now in Jesus name. I also speak and declare 100% health, wholeness, and healing throughout every cell in your bodies in Jesus name. I command backs to be healed in Jesus name. I command diabetes to be gone in Jesus name. I command pancreases to be healed in Jesus name. Uh, I declare cancer be gone in Jesus name. I declare, um, hearts to be healed in Jesus name. Uh, any skin conditions, any autoimmune, um, uh, sicknesses be gone, be healed in Jesus name. And I declare, Lord, that they will have peace in their minds in Jesus name. I declare silence. I silence the voice of the enemy in Jesus name. Amen. And amen. And I pray for all those watching that have not made a commitment, or you want to make a recommitment to your, uh, walk with Christ, to just say, 'Heavenly Father, I ask you to be real to me and to help me make you Christ over my life. I repent for all pride. I repent for all sin in my life in Jesus name. And I declare that I will pursue forgiving everyone, repenting for things that I've done to hurt others, repenting for my sin in Jesus name. Amen. And amen.'"

"Amen. Sounds so simple, but there are very few times that I felt that level of just power."

"Amen."

"During prayer. I believe that I'm going to get flooded with emails. It's okay. I'm going just start forwarding them your way so you can see what, what God has done. Again, you guys, the link is in description. Make sure you get a hold of this book. Get inside this classroom. It's time to get active. I feel such an urgency in the spirit realm that there, it's not by accident. I'll just give you, give you this. I grew up in a, in a church. My dad's a deliverance minister, and I've tried to escape a deliverance ministry for, for many years. I traveled around the world doing speaking, spoken word, and I'm just like, ah, this, I found my lane. I never in a million years thought I'd be having a podcast where we'll be having conversations like this. And God has been making it so clear that he's not just stirring up and training those that are listening, but he's training me. And so every time I sit in front of someone like you, God is literally opening my eyes in a tremendous way. And there's a level of urgency for his people. He wants his people set free more than we could ever want for them to be set free. He wants it more than the people that are crying out to be set free. That's, that's the heart of the Lord that we have. So I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being obedient."

"Well, thank you. Thank you. It's an honor to be on your show."

"A thank you. Bless you, Ray."

"Amen."

"Now, you might be asking, what is the gospel? The gospel is very simple, that you are a sinner, and that you are on your way to hell without a shadow of a doubt. You were born in sin, and the wrath of God abides on you, and you do not deserve to go there by way of your sin. But while you were still a sinner, God sent his son Jesus, who loved you and died for you as your substitutionary sacrifice, which means he died in your place so that you could live his life. Which means he died for your sin. He was buried, and 3 days later he resurrected from the dead. And if you would confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. That's out, that's out here. No, no. I'm talking about the real Jesus of the Bible, the eternal son of God that became a man. God manifested in the flesh that became a man, and in 33 years, he died on the cross providing redemption, buying us back, translating us out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of his dear son, which means he redeemed us back to God. He reconciled you back to God by way of his death on the cross. And so you're probably saying, 'How can I be saved?' Very simple. All you have to do is repent of your sin. I'm not talking about 360, I'm talking about 180. You turn, you turn from your sin. You believe in the gospel exclusively. Just Jesus. I'm not talking about Jesus and Mary. I'm not talking about Jesus and Buddha. I'm not talking about Jesus and some other centralized figure. And I'm not even talking about Jesus and your spiritual father and destiny and all of that. No, no, no. There's only one way to heaven. Jesus said, 'I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life, and nobody comes unto the Father except through me.' Jesus is exclusively the only way. You want to know why he's the only way? Because he's not only the only way, he is the door to enter in. And the only way you could get in is by way of repentance. You must repent and become born again. Why? Because only sons and daughters can become citizens in the kingdom. Outsiders can't come in. But Jesus died on that cross, and he made the way open for you. And if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. I'm not talking about all this other stuff to get saved. No, no, no. Just believe. Believe in him. The efficacy of Christ's work on the cross as the substitutionary sacrifice in exchange for your sin, which means you give up your sin. You give it to him. He exchanges it and takes on your sin, >> but he gives you his righteousness. And then you are righteous and justified by faith in Jesus. And when you have justification because of Jesus, now you have peace with God. You have peace with God. And watch this. And now he will no longer be just your God. He is now your heavenly Father through the person of the son Jesus. Why don't you pray that prayer right now? Just repeat after me. Say, 'Lord, I believe that I am a sinner and that I deserve to go to hell, but God, you sent your son.' Go ahead. Those of you that are watching, repeat what I'm saying. Say, 'God, you sent your son, Jesus Christ, to die for my sin. He was buried. 3 days later, he resurrected from the dead. I now confess you, Lord Jesus, as my Lord, as my Savior. Come into my heart. Come into my life and wash me from my sin.' And now say this. Say, 'Holy Spirit, I surrender my life to you.' >> 'Make me born again in Jesus mighty name.' My friend, if you said that prayer, whichever way you said that prayer, as long as you believe, confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and that he died on the cross for you, and 3 days later he resurrected, and you repented and believed that message, the Bible says, 'Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' You are saved, my friend. Here's what I want you to do. There's going to be an email that's going to be put on the video right here. And I want you to write, I want you to write this channel and tell them that you accepted Christ as your savior. And Brother Ezekiel and the administrative staff of this channel will help you find a local church in your area. They will point you in the right direction. But we need to hear from you to say, 'Man of God, in that broadcast, I know you guys were talking about demons and devils, but I ended up getting saved and I ended up renouncing all other gods.'"

"Yeah."

">> Which means you got to renounce all other gods and believe exclusively on the son of God. And welcome to the family of God."