Transcription
[Music] All right folks, Dr. Umar Johnson recently was on uh 105.1 FM out of New York, The Breakfast Club, with DJ Envy, Angela Y, and Charlamagne Tha God. During the interview, Johnson talked about a whole range of issues. It led to him being the talk of Black Twitter last week. Uh, a lot of people were questioning his educational credentials. Now, people ask me, what can we expect from a Donald Trump White House for Black America? And the answer is real simple: you can expect exactly what you got from an Obama White House, absolutely nothing. Black people know they're not American, but they will fight like hell to protect that identity because they don't want to be identified with who they really are, and that's being African. As long as you have a skill, you can always feed your family. But if all you got is college degrees, you might end up in an unemployment line. I'm a psychologist. Ain't too many Black people running around looking for a psychologist to reveal all the skeletons in their closet.
All right folks, joining us right now, Dr. Umar Johnson. Uh, welcome back to the show. Uh, first and foremost, um, um, it was amazing looking at this whole reaction. I'm sitting here, uh, you know, again, people asking all kind of questions, things are blowing up. Uh, and so many people jumped on saying, "He's not a real doctor. Okay, uh, where did you graduate from and you got your PhD?"
Mmm-hmm. My undergraduate education was from Millersville University, uh, three degrees: political science, psychology, master's in school psychology. Subsequent to that, Pennsylvania certification as a school psychologist, which I've been for almost 20 years. After that, I got my educational leadership master's degree and principal certificate from Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. And I earned my doctorate degree from the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine, American Psychological Association approved program, one of the top psychology training programs on the East Coast. Six degrees in all. And anyone can lift up a telephone and call and verify those degrees.
So when, when you see folks, uh, who, who, who, who question, uh, your degree, is your response, it's because my narrative is a whole lot different from the average mainstream Black scholar. I don't parrot the narrative that the American social order wants Black scholars to parrot. I tell the truth. I don't scratch unless I itch, and I don't dance unless I like the music. And because they're not used to having someone with the traditional education posit non-traditional views, people will automatically start to question his credentials. How did he get this far? Believe in what he believes in.
Well, you have to play the spook who sat by the door. When I got accepted into those three universities, they didn't know what I believed in. They didn't know what I stood for. But as time went on, it revealed itself. But I'm unapologetically African, so I'm not really concerned with what people think about me personally. Um, I have a job to do, and that is to awaken the sleeping consciousness of African people, not just in America, but all across the world.
Uh, one of the things that, of, uh, you said during the interview, you said that, uh, Mandarin was one, one of the official languages in South Africa. Yes, sir. And others said you were dead wrong. Yes, because I didn't clarify that I was speaking of it being an official language in the public school system of South Africa. So I should have clarified that. Mandarin is an official language in the Republic of South Africa's school system. It's not an official language in the country. It's an official language in the school system, and I was speaking of schools, but I didn't clarify that. So that's my responsibility.
Uh, also, uh, during that particular interview, uh, you, you talked about a, a variety of, that also, uh, got people, uh, talking. One of them dealt with your views on interracial marriage. Yes, sir. And so, uh, and so explain that for folks who did not hear it. Uh, certainly. Simply put, any Black man who is with a woman who's not an African herself is going to have a difficult time getting respect from me. I believe Black men need to be with Black women. The Black family is under attack. Only one out of every four Black women gets married. The Black woman is last likely to get married. She's the last married, the first divorced. We have what, two-thirds of our children being raised by working-class and, uh, single Black female-led homes. The destruction of a nation begins in the home of its families. And if we want to save Black people, we have to save the Black family. And in order to do that, Black men have to commit themselves to Black women.
So, so you talk about not getting your respect. So, which, so if that's the case, you're saying, uh, President Barack Obama, excuse me, President Barack Obama, to get your respect because his dad married a white woman? Not at all. With, uh, with Harry Belafonte? Not at all. I want to be very clear about something. As a Pan-Africanist, the product of an interracial union is an African. I have heroes who are biracial. Some of the grandfathers of Pan-Africanism were of mixed racial ancestry. You don't blame a child for how they got here. But I'm asking you this here, Harry Belafonte has a white wife. No respect for him.
See, very, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter your social status. No, no, no, no. I don't say social. I'm talking about the one who put the work, right? But you put, no, no, no. I'm asking you. So Harry Belafonte, yes, sir. Sidney Poitier, Julian B. Vernon Jordan, and you're naming all them to say what? No, these are all African-American men who have married, have done some good things. No, who have married white women. And, but you said, you, any, any Black man who marries a white woman will not get your respect.
Can I respond? Yeah, go ahead. And what I'm telling you is this: I don't care who you name. I don't care how much work you did for Black people. Your greatest commitment to Black people is being committed to a Black woman. It is still a contradiction, no matter how much you think you did for the struggle. If you really were concerned with Black people, you would have committed yourself to a Black woman. So it doesn't matter how successful they are. It doesn't matter how great you may claim them to be. At the end of the day, you didn't think enough about your own people to marry a woman who looks like you.
Frederick Douglass, yes, sir. An ancestor of mine. So when you say ancestor, what does that mean? Let me break it down because again, some have said you tried to claim that you are a descendant of Frederick Douglass. Okay, so let's deal with that. So hold on one second. Here's a statement from the family. Uh, let me go ahead and read this, please. Um, the family of Frederick Douglass has received numerous inquiries about Umar Johnson questioning his relationship to Frederick Douglass. There have also been questions about the legitimacy of his PhD and the handling of the donations he's received for a school that he is promoting. We can tell you with 100% certainty that he is not a descendant of Frederick Douglass. With that being said, Mr. Johnson is very careful not to build himself as a descendant, but he doesn't correct people when they refer to him in this way. He calls himself a blood relative, which is a nebulous reference designed to make people think he is a descendant. We have researched his explanation of being a blood relative to the great abolitionist. Some of the information he provides is accurate, but an extremely important piece of his explanation with regards to a documented relative of Frederick Douglass is false. The information he recites correctly is from the public record, so his knowledge of our family ancestry is far from definitive proof.
Two things there. One, he's not a descendant of Frederick Douglass. Okay. I would concur with that. All right. But then two, you also heard that some of the things he says is correct. So the question becomes, he's either related or he's not. Okay. So are, so are you related?
I'm about to answer your question if you allow me to do that. I am a blood relative of Frederick Douglass. My name is on the family tree. We have a family reunion every two years. What they're talking about, I want to make sure you're clear, they're talking about whether or not I come through the loin of Frederick Douglass, which I do not, nor have I ever claimed. Okay? I have more videos on YouTube than any other scholar. I speak around the world more than any other scholar. Show me where I've ever said I was a descendant. I've only claimed one thing: kinsman. How am I kinsman? If you ever read any of the autobiographies of Frederick Douglass, he talks about growing up on Tuckahoe Creek with Cousin Steven. Cousin Steven is Steven Baily, Dr. Umar Johnson's four times great-grandfather, whose grave I just visited last week. I go every year. Okay? That's my four times great-grandfather. He married my four times great-grandmother, Caroline Wilson Baily. From that union came my three times great-grandfather, George Washington Baily, the first Black public school teacher on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. He married Grandma Annie. They had Grandma Caroline. Okay? She had Grandma Vivian. Grandma Vivian married a Spanish-speaking Cuban immigrant, Grandpa Cicero. They had Grandma Ida, who's still alive, who married James Johnson, who had my father, Jamal, who married my mama, Barbara. And from that union, I was born. I am a blood of Baily. I am not married in. What they're talking about is strictly descendancy, something I've never claimed. Am I a kin? Do I directly come from the loin of the first cousin and potentially half-brother of Frederick Douglass? And the reason I say potentially, the slave master who owned our family, a white man named Aaron Anthony, raped Frederick's mother and raped Steven's mother, my ancestor. And there's significant evidence to suggest that some people could still argue though that they were not brothers because it's not conclusive. Fine, throw that out. I'm still a kinsman because I come through the blood of his first cousin.
You talk about again, respect. You respect. I don't talk about respect. I get tremendous respect from my people. I'm not talking about that. Um, do you respect Frederick Douglass? Obvious. Yes. But he had a white wife. He did. So this is what I'm, I'm going to clarify. Why, why is that an issue? Why, I mean, why is that, if, if you put in the work, mmm-hmm, and you have the history, who, who cares who you married?
I already answered that question. And I told you, I don't care how much work you put in. If you don't commit yourself to a Black woman, ultimately, you wasn't totally committed to the struggle. Even Frederick Douglass, even Frederick Douglass has to be criticized, as I did on The Breakfast Club. Now, it has to be put in context. He didn't marry the white woman until he was an old man, after his wife, Anna Murray Douglass, of 50 years, a blue-black chocolate woman, through whom all my cousins were born. He was an old man when he did it. But nonetheless, he did it. And yes, he has to be criticized on that because a Black man needs to be with a Black woman. And it is a contradiction. I don't care how much work you think you've done for Black folks to not commit yourself to a Black woman.
Oh, tight. One second. I got more questions. We come back. I would argue the reason Black men marry white women is because they wish they were white themselves. And having the white man's prize, his queen, is a psychological symbol to myself that I am equal to him.
We're back with Dr. Umar Johnson. Uh, in one of the, in that particular statement, uh, the family also addressed this here. Uh, you talked about taking over, uh, the buildings or the land of a Black, of a Black school that was shut down, St. Paul's College. And you were raising money for it. First of all, how much money has been raised and what's the status of that project?
Well, St. Paul's has been sold. Approximately three to five months ago, I was told by the auction company in charge of the sale that it was been sold to a developer. So how much money was raised? People, people gave. All people gave. How much was raised? And what's the status of that? $700,000. And the status is, we're still looking for a school. And the status is, my start date for FDmg will be 8/21/18, or if at all, it may be delayed to 8/21/19, which is the anniversary of the N-word.
When you say looking for a school, why not start a charter school? I mean, you can start a school. Because charter schools are owned by the state, and I'm a Pan-Africanist. It's, I believe what is to be done for Black people must be done by Black people. Why do I want a charter school? So you want, so you want a private school? Exactly. Independent school.
Lauren, um, the question of interracial marriage. I mean, come on, man. You're too smart for this. We got 43 million Black people in this country. Over 190 million white people. You're going to sit here and say that if a Black person, white person get married, a Black person, white person get married, one can't understand the other person's struggle? You've seen, you've seen Tim Wise. You've seen Reverend. Seen white people who understand racism very well. That doesn't mean they're going to do anything about it. It's obviously true. Is they understand racism. When you see things like the murder of Medgar Evers, like the murder of Martin Luther King, they understand racism. They understand us gaining just fine. And that's why murder happened. Based on what? So the idea that somehow a white person can't understand our struggle, I could care less what they understand. I'm asking you, what have they done systematically to improve the opportunities? He did not tell me that. Yes, you did tell me. He did not tell me that. You're going to tell me that guys like Tim Wise and Reverend Wallace don't understand. Wise, they don't understand racism. Articulates racism. But what has he done to ally people? America, white, white people understand race in America. There's not a white person. There's not a white person in America who has ever worked to systematically eliminate the white privilege that they benefit from. Your oppression. You're lying. You know, million people in America. Eugene, oh, oh, we're not going to go there. We're not. I'm calling me a liar. And your, well, it's a fact that it's a fact. You're, it's a fact that you're understand to say to say to say that to say that everybody. One second. Several things. I don't allow. I don't allow the N-word. I don't allow. We can talk to one another and disagree, but I do not use racial slurs against my. That's fine. But he called me. No, no, no, no. The language, racial epithets will not be used on this show. And that's fine by anybody. But how we talk to each other. You can say whatever you want, but no racial epithets will be used on this show. About Black people, to Black people. Eugene, your question. So from your paradigm, from your perspective, Civil Rights Act isn't an act of, of white folks stepping up on behalf of Black folks? Current criminal justice reform legislation moving, isn't it a current act of white folks stepping up on behalf of Black folks? Folks that funded the Civil Rights Movement in the in the '50s and '60s, isn't it an act of white folks stepping up on behalf of Black folks? I'm sorry, as an American, because I define myself as an American, an African American. Sure you do. I live in a country that moves forward together. And I say that as a Republican. We move forward together. Yes, we have individual struggles. Yes, we have struggles. Yes, we have. We have system. Finish, finish in 15 seconds. Then we have systematic struggles, and together as a country, move forward to defeat those struggles. Really? So based on what you said, I want you to give me examples of white folks, not individuals, but systematically. Indiv, excuse me. Why indiv? Second. I know you can't wait to. One second. Answer. Can I finish? Go, go. Okay. I'm going. Okay. You cannot name anything systematically done ever in this country by white people that equal the playing field for Black folks. The Civil Rights Act. Congress literally sits behind us. The Civil Rights Act. The Voting Rights. Are you aware? Both of them. White people are proud of you. Son. Scott Bal. Quick. I think the, the terminology and the narrative being used is a little misleading, not from you, but from this dialogue right here. Okay. You know, it's one thing to sympathize with a struggle. It's another one to be to empathize with the struggle. Very different. When you talk about marriage being a political choice, and that one of the things arguments that you made, that I tend to agree with, is that that if you don't marry a Black woman, then she can never support and comfort and value your day-to-day struggle as a Black man. Uh, that being said, I do think that the, the level of the rhetoric that you use in regard to your Pan-Africanism is, um, is, is difficult for many of us, quote, in the mainstream, to get our arms around. But this issue about Black men and white women in the Civil Rights struggle is not a new discussion. My mother was a Civil Rights activist in Chicago, and she would often, uh, complain privately that, one, you can't sleep Black, you can't sleep white and talk Black, if you will. And that's always been in the American struggle. African-Americans struggle with ourselves. The other thing is that we struggle with our own psychology about self-love and otherwise. And if we get our arms around that, that does make sense. But you would have to say that, you know, 190 million people, but you're being too close. Matter. You have to claim that. Go ahead. Respond. Go ahead. And I agree with, with, with my brother's comments. Brother Scott, he brought up the Civil Rights Bill. But what he did not talk about in relation to the Civil Rights Bill is there were two words included in that bill that ultimately served to take away from Black people what that bill was intended to deliver. They added gender and they added sexual orientation. And as a result of that, white women and homosexuals have been able to strip Black America from the intended gains of the Civil Rights Act. So there was still racism in that bill, if you will study that history. But Umar, your question was, did anyone has anyone Black ever systematically done? I mean, anyone white ever systematically done anything systematically? White America, LBJ would be the answer for that, because that's the government. I don't think you a systematic move. No, you didn't hear the question. No, you did not. No, you didn't. You're so quick to defend white folks that you're not listening. Have 45 seconds. So reset the question and give the answer. Got 45 seconds. Let's get an answer. The question was, what has white America done? Right? Not individuals. Systematically. Can you, you won't even let me finish because if that in love with white folks, you won't even let me finish. Finish. Literally 20 seconds. There is no bigger system than 20 seconds. I'll finish. And in 20 seconds, I would say that the panel that you have here, who are extremely intelligent, do not represent the everyday Black man and woman struggles. And then because of that, they cannot articulate. You represent 43 million people in this country. Days on TV1. I will never lie to you. Oh my God. Roland Martin, he doesn't want to talk to us. He wants to ignore us. Uncensored. Hell no, that ain't going to cut it, boo. Unapologetic. No, no, that that is fundamentally false. You are wrong. Filter. He wants an America where we all look alike. He ain't talking about Black people. Unrelenting. You better go work out because you got a fight on your hands. News One Now with Roland Martin, weekdays at 7:00 AM on TV One.