Transcription
There it is, ladies and gentlemen. We're giving it up. And uh, welcome to another episode of the Going Over podcast. It is I, your neighborhood friendly coach, trainer, promoter, and 44-year-old professional wrestler, Zack Prime Time Ree Papa Pow. And I'm joined alongside my podcast partner as always, the 7-foot wrecking ball, Paul is Adora. And Paul, we, we salute you after 20-plus years in the sports entertainment business. That's it, man. I think it's, uh, I don't know if it's embarrassing or if it is, uh, just a, uh, I don't know, just, just tells you that my, my life is, is busy with other stuff. But, um, I made a point to, to watch Saturday night's main event last night. Uh, you know, it was like, uh, obviously 20 years ago. Um, well, it was, was it in 2002 when, uh, Cena debuted or when was, when was the, the debut? Cuz obviously I, I've seen it from the beginning, but it was like, you get to see the culmination of, of what's going to be the end of this guy's career. And, um, you know, I saw so much stuff online today just about like, um, you know, the way that he lost and different stuff and people saying, you know, "Oh, my trainer, when I first started in the business, said you're going to start off on your back and you're going to end up on your back when this thing is all done." And, um, just, I don't know, people's opinions of, uh, of how things, uh, went down. And, uh, regardless of if you think it was a good match, a bad match, whatever, um, you know, you're left with, with one, uh, you know, vision in your head and that's, uh, Cena tapping out and, uh, you know, giving his bows and, uh, everybody coming out and, you know, uh, giving them a standing ovation. And, uh, video package and all this good stuff. So, um, yeah. So, but this is, uh, this is the first, uh, you know, WWE programming that I've watched like start to finish in, in quite some time. So, um, but it was, it was good to see, uh, some of the younger guys that, you know, that Cena decided deserved a chance on, uh, on this, uh, you know, this last, uh, programming that he was going to be on as an active wrestler. And, uh, so I got to see some of the, some of the up-and-comers that I, that I've never seen before. Robo Femi and, um, the guys in the tag match and, um, the, uh, the girl in the, um, in the match versus Bailey as well. Never seen any of these people because I just, I watch so little, uh, wrestling. So, good to see that stuff.
Out of respect for John Cena, I did not watch Saturday night's main event because I'm gonna see all the the [ __ ] clips anyways. You know what I mean? So, I didn't watch it. I saw all the cool clips and everything that I needed to see and I got to read and and still continuing to read all the comments and John never gave up, John should have never gave up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, we, we always talk about wrestling is an art form, right? We're painting our own pictures. We're going to react to whatever we want to react to and we can have opinions. I just remember watching wrestling back in the day and, uh, we just, we just enjoyed it. We enjoyed wrestling. I thought it was great that John Cena smiled and, uh, tapped out and then closed his eyes and rolled over and, and that was the end of the end of John Cena. A great tribute at the end and it's just one of those things, man. It's, uh, you know, I think the coldest, I think the coldest line of them all was prof tonight, "Professional wrestling killed sports entertainment." And that's an interesting line to me because that's, that's something back in the day with, uh, you know, when I did that, that, uh, program with Mitch Valentine, I said, "I'm a professional wrestler and you're nothing but a stupid sports entertainer." And, and that's the thing. Gunther is a professional wrestler and John Cena is a sports entertainer, but we're all professional wrestlers and we're all sports entertainers. Let's not pull the wool back over the eyes because the real, the real compliment in this business is when you're called a great worker. You know what I mean? "What a performer. What a performance he had tonight." And we know it's sports entertainment. We, Vince McMahon made sure we knew that was sports entertainment. And, you know, it's been an unbelievable time watching John Cena. We'll never see one again. We'll never see another John Cena again. And out of respect for Cena, I, I went on about my business because what would John Cena say through hustle, loyalty, and respect? He would say, "Get up, get to work, and and just work your ass off, man. Don't say say yes to everything and don't say no to anything." And that comes to the business, not when people want you to do [ __ ]. And that's what I did this weekend. I just kept saying yes. And I had, uh, one of the most unbelievable weekends of my life. And we started out getting picked up at, uh, 3:30 on Friday and we took that long, foggy drive to San Leandro. Maple Gramps. She's been driving me around since she was 10 years of age. So I trust her driving 100%, no matter h how much she steps on the gas. And we headed to the Stars of Wrestling and the new Starlex down in, in San Leandro, which was, which was a really nice place. It was cold as [ __ ]. I found the only, uh, heater in the joint in between some staff members and I made sure I sat there. But I, but I learned here, here's some things I wanted to talk to you about that I learned this weekend. So, as we, as we send Reo down there and, uh, it's his first time basically, and what I mean by the big leagues is, you don't know anybody. You're getting in the ring with the Stoner brothers, which, uh, to Dustin and Derek, I had a great conversation, a great conversation with them, and I, I appreciate them. Uh, the kind words they had to say about my student. And, uh, wise guy and Dave Dutra didn't have such kind things to say to my student. And, and that's the thing. When my guys go to a place like this, I don't talk to them till the ride home or I don't talk to them until the next day. So, uh, I got a message at 1:32, the exact time, 1:32 in the morning from Christina von Eerie and she did not even know I was there. And we've been talking back and forth and it was the most [ __ ] heartwarming thing a coach can ever get. And she said to me, "Ethan came down and worked tonight and he got some very harsh criticism from both, uh, experienced teams afterwards in the locker room. And I gave him some criticism about getting some, you know, about his gear and, and getting some wrestling boots and, and all this stuff." And she said, "He was just so receptive and such a nice, polite guy. And it was not even workwise or training wise, but from human to human being. That's why I like this kid. I like this kid because, and I, that's what goes on in the wrestling business. We're they're going to get, you're going to get reamed in the locker room. You're going to get violated at times when you're just breaking in and starting out. But that's how we test the waters, right? We want to know if somebody can handle some criticism. We want to know if somebody can, uh, with pride, handle being yelled at and say, "You know what? I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna get better." And I know he was overwhelmed this weekend and I want to get into this stuff, but man, just that first night alone with this experience and the experience that Ethan went into and then the positive feedback I got back for just, just how good of a person he was outside of the ring and a pleasure to be around in the locker room. And that's what we go for, right? We, we want to teach our students and prepare them so that they can handle the worst."
"Absolutely. So, um, it's, it's ironic that you say that kind of walking into some place where you don't know anyone. Um, and we always kind of say like that's, that's going to be the, uh, uh, the indicator, right? Do you know how to work? Do you know how to get over? If you go to some place where they don't know who the hell you are, if you're working with people that you've never worked with before, um, you know, that's, that's a great indicator. Um, ironically, my daughter just, uh, this weekend was playing in a, in a Native American tournament and she was very nervous. She's not going to know anyone. And, you know, and the message was the same, you know, "Hey, you got to go out there. You got to put your best foot forward. Um, there's going to be times like this where you're going to go somewhere, you know, you're going to go to basketball camps where, you know, you're going to be the only person from your city that's going to these things and you're going to be with a culmination of a bunch of people from the West Coast or whatever." Um, which sounds like a very similar situation, right? You're just going to be in this situation where you're going to have to just show them what you got, right? Go be coachable. Um, you know, just go out there and show them what you can do, right? And you're going to get that feedback, you're going to get that criticism like, "Hey, this is what I need you to do next time, right?" Um, so very parallel paths, um, you know, that you're talking about and, and that I got to experience with my daughter today."
"So, um, you know, it's exciting, um, you know, and it's all about growth. You know, we, we talk about, uh, guys in the wrestling business and, uh, you know, going places and kind of, um, you know, kind of venturing out on your own. Although you were there, nobody, uh, I mean, it sounds like, you know, Christina didn't know you were there and, uh, obviously you must have had a conversation with Derek and Dustin at some point. They, they must have known you were there. So, um, but, but it's really cool to, to go, "Hey, what type of feedback did you get? Right? Tell me what they said to you. Uh, here's my feedback. Here's what I thought of your match and, uh, things like that." So, uh, you know, and I'm going to have a very similar conversation with my daughter, right? "Hey, what'd you think out there? Um, you know, what, what are the positives and negatives? Uh, what do you think you can work on? What do you think you did well? Uh, things like that." So, um, you know, it's just an exciting, uh, an exciting time, you know, when you get to kind of be that, uh, uh, you know, just getting your feet wet, right, for the first time, experience something new. So, pretty, pretty exciting, man. I'm excited to hear kind of, uh, how that, how that show went together, uh, as a whole and, uh, and kind of the rest of your weekend as well, because it sounded like you had kind of a jam-packed weekend."
"Oh, I had a, I had a great weekend. You know, that, that's the thing I was talking about is like, you know, I, I appreciate, you know, some of the old, some of the guys in the business and, uh, you know, Ethan took, Ethan took a shellacking in that locker room and people came up to me and there, there was some very unkind things that were said to him by a couple of the workers. And that's okay because people tend to forget a couple things in this business. And I'm not mad at anybody, man. I'm not mad at anybody for any comments that were made or regarding the trainer or anything else because I remember when I got in this business, right? And, and people are just, people just get mad about performances and they forget that other wrestlers are young and nervous and starting out. But the thing is, when I started in the business, uh, some, some people that were really close that I became really close with, you know, uh, Mike Modest, Vinnie Msaro, Roland Alexander, uh, Gabe Ramirez, you know, Donovan Morgan, all these guys, which I wasn't close to Morgan out of all those people, but all these people when I first started because I was supposed to go to APW, I was a backyard wrestler. I was dog [ __ ]. I was no good. You know, my, my trainer was a piece of [ __ ]. I got all these things when I first started, right? And then three, four years later, I'm at this place as one of the trainers, beating one of their top guys, wrestling, winning the belts, wrestling for representing the company in another, in a couple, you know, two other countries. And it's, and it's what I always like to say, and whatever you want to say to my students afterwards, go for it. Because I had to take, I had to be a man and take the shellacking from, uh, far better men. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not even going to say names here, but I, I got violated at a far worse time when by far bigger and far better men in the business. And I do mean bigger men in the business. And the thing about it is, just, you, you don't have to be a straight [ __ ] dick because you never know. You know, did any of those people know when they were calling me a backyard that I would end up coming down to that company and helping them come back up, bringing Oliver John and AJ Kersh and Brian Cage and Scotty Aboot and Rick? You know, they, they didn't know back then that I was going to be such an impactful person and, and help lead their company better than when everybody else left it and, and, and bring it back up and keep it around. They didn't know that. So, the thing I tell these young guys out here is, is you never know who's watching. It's what I told Ethan. He was real emotional on the side of the building and I said, "You never know who's watching." And I said, "You know, wear your, don't wear your heart on your sleeve. You know, don't show your deck. Don't show your cards what you're playing with. Cuz I said, I'm standing over here and I saw you. You know what I mean? So, if I saw you, everyone else saw you outside the building. And the thing is, just be careful who you are a prick to and who you talk [ __ ] to because you could talk [ __ ] to a brand new student and treat them like trash or you could talk [ __ ] to the guy who's working the hot dog stand and five years' time, sometimes maybe less, that person can end up getting a contract or being something big in this business, man. And then you come back around and, and you go, "Man, I, I talked [ __ ] to this person and treated them poorly and now this person I is up here." And the thing about it is for me is like the measure of a human being to, to especially a young kid like this to have such criticism and this is what Christina was talking about, to have such harsh, angry, you know, just all kinds of criticism whether good or bad coming at him and to be able to just accept the criticism and not be mad about it, to, to even come up to me afterwards and not complain about it. To hear other people complain about what was said to him, but he's just, he's just, he just goes with the flow, man. And what that tells me is this is somebody which I've already known, but this is somebody, and for you out there, those are the type of guys that are going to be around in this business for a very long time. You can't break them, man. And at a young age, you can't break them. They still get up and their, and their focus is on getting better. And that's exactly what he did and we did with the rest of our weekend. But great experience, man. I want to thank Christina von Eerie. You know, I went and I paid for my ticket. You know, one thing I said and I paid for two other people's tickets too. And it was like, I know they're paying for this building. It's a nice, it's a big building. You know, they've did a lot of work to it. So, we, we should as a wrestling company, we, we should support each other. You know what I mean? Like, we shouldn't always expect to call ahead and ask if it's going to be free. There's some seats that need to be filled. They got, they got high rent to pay. I mean, [ __ ], they had, uh, Fred Roser in Victoria, not even wrestling, just sitting over on the side signing autographs with with Santa hats on and [ __ ]. So, so there's a lot of money going through that promotion, man. So, yeah, I, I'll support that any day of the week. And they took care of my, they took care of my guy, man, at the end of the day. So, that was the first part of my weekend. We, we got going on that. That's part number one. Now, part number two, we got to be, we get home at like 1:00 in the morning. We got to be back up at, we got to be in Sacramento at 9:45 for the ugly dojo. I got to have Raino down there. And I had, I got to run a 2-hour in-ring seminar with my coach side by side Oliver John and we were working on cut the cut off and the heat is what I was told when I got there. And I got to get in the ring and me and Oliver John just went back and forth and back and forth and, and it, it was just a time of my life, man, getting, getting to do that. So, so to go from this, this, uh, big building to this smaller building to watching all this go down to, to watching everything that, that went down the rest of the weekend doing a seminar. I mean, at this point, I'm tired as [ __ ]. He's tired as [ __ ]. But here I am just deep, deep into my weekend and this is what we've been doing every weekend. We've been doing wrestling and this is the last thing I do on Sunday is like, [ __ ], man, I'm so tired after class on Sunday and I'm like, I got to do, I got to do the one-hour podcast and then I can just close my eyes and, and fall faint to the world. You know what I mean? So, it was, it was very, it's, it was very good, man. It was a very good weekend up to this point. Training was great today. And I say it's unbelievable because it was just a weekend filled with just good people, new experiences in wrestling, which bled into today's training, which was 4 hours and 50 minutes of training we did today. Almost five hours of training, just nonstop. Everybody around that ring working hard and you just see the business, you, you just see the business starting to grow. And I'm sorry about this long rant. I will shut my stupid mouth up now. But I mean, just a great weekend and it's no knock towards anybody. Anything I'm saying, it's just a learning experience. And what I'm saying is, even if you are saying harsh things to my student that they agreed to work for you, you're paying them. They're working for you. They don't need me. They don't need daddy to babysit them. They don't need daddy to stand up for them. So, if you're out there and you book one of my students and you got some harsh ass things to say to them, feel free, man. I'm not going to look at you, uh, any other way, feel, it's, they're, they're your employee for the night. So, whatever you tell them, are, are you going to leave a good impression? Are you going to give them positive advice? Are you going to constructively criticize them? Or are you just going to be a no-good, dirty, swallowing [ __ ] when you talk to them? I have no idea. I don't know what you're going to do, but feel free to do it anyways because it's on you at the end of the day how you help the young talent. If, if you, if you want to bury them, bury them. If you want to give them positive, constructive criticism that may seem harsh, if they're too sensitive, go for it. You know, it, it's on you as the performer, the sports entertainer, the pro wrestler, the worker, how you want to be perceived when you help, you know, are you helping to groom and elevate and get these guys ready for the future or are you not? And, and that's the choice some people make. So, I thought it was a very, once again, another very educational weekend and sorry, Paul."
"That's all good. So, I mean, I just, as you're, as you're talking about, you never know who you're dealing with, right? Um, I remember, I feel like it was that the Undertaker, uh, documentary or whatever it was where he was talking about, um, you know, the, uh, the toes that you step on on the way up the ladder are attached to the asses that you're going to have to kiss on the way back down, right? So, I think that that's a really good thing to remember. Uh, and I think it just goes back to the, the way that you generally train your students to, uh, you know, to act when they go to a show, right? We talk about showing respect to everyone, right? You go up and you shake people's hands, introduce yourself. Um, you know, and we've, I think I don't know if we've had this conversation, but I've had this conversation with a hundred people probably. You know, you introduce yourself with your, with your real name. You don't go, "Hey, what's going on? Uh, Dynamite or whatever." You know, don't, don't introduce yourself as your [ __ ] work name. Um, you know, and a lot of people, uh, you know, so many people don't know my real name. You know, most people in the wrestling business just call me Ball, right? Because that's, you know, it, it wasn't like a, um, you know, they just, they know you as your, as your wrestling name. Uh, and in many cases, it's, it's an easier way to go, uh, so I don't [ __ ] it up in a promo or, uh, so I don't [ __ ] it up while we're out there in the ring and, and you don't go, uh, you know, call me by my real name where the fans are just going, "What did he, what did he just say?" Uh, but I mean, those, those are the things that, that we really, uh, I don't want to say we harp on, but it's definitely one of the lessons that we teach is like, uh, you know, you need to go and you need to treat everybody with respect because you don't know who this person is, who they know. Um, you know, this pro wrestling thing is, is a big network of people where you might say something, uh, and, and make an ass out of yourself, uh, in one situation thinking it really doesn't matter. Maybe you think this show is insignificant or this promoter is insignificant or, uh, this wrestler is insignificant, but, you know, they might know somebody who down the road is now not going to use you because you were an [ __ ] to somebody that they, uh, you know, that they trust or they respect or, or whatever it is. Um, you know, I think the first impressions in so many cases are, are such a big deal, right? I think about this at work all the time where the first time I meet someone, um, is a very good indication of, am I going to like this guy? Am I going to work well with them or am I just going to tolerate them because they're a coworker? Uh, you know, so that's, that's one of those situations, man, when, when you're in the locker room, you, and we talk about this all the time, how you want that vibe in the locker room to be positive, right? Uh, and it's, and it's not like we don't give criticism to people, right? If someone's match sucked, you're going to let them know about it, right? If they [ __ ] something up, you're going to let them know about it. But you try to use the compliment sandwich, right? You, you try to go, "Hey, uh, you know, great having you on the show or whatever. Uh, here's what I saw out there. Uh, but this is what I really liked." Right? So, you know, you give them a little bit of, um, you know, you let them know that they're appreciated, right? You appreciate them working on the show. Um, we, I don't know, in my mind, we respect everybody that, that does pro wrestling, right? Because it's, you're putting your, you're putting your body on the line, right? And a lot of times you're putting your life on the line, like this is, this is dangerous, right? So, you go out there and, and you're willing to go out there and work a wrestling match. Uh, you get some sort of respect just, just for that. Um, you know, but it's just like, you want to, um, I don't know, you just, you just want to give that, uh, that constructive criticism, right? So, uh, you just want things to be, uh, positive in the back, right? You don't want people that are just, uh, negative Nancy, uh, the guys that make your locker room, uh, suck to be in, right? You don't want to be, uh, in a locker room surrounded by people that you're just like, the vibe isn't, isn't there, isn't good. You want positivity. Um, you know, you just want that. You know, we've talked about that in the past, how, uh, the locker room here in Reno is just a good place to be. It's enjoyable. Uh, you have a lot of people that, uh, they just want the best for everybody else, right? So, they're going to give you those, they're going to give you the compliments on the things that you're doing well, but they're also going to pull you aside and say, "Hey, listen, man. I saw this and I, I would change this if I was you." Uh, and those are, those are the things that, that we're looking for, right? We want to, we want that person to come back and go, "Hey, this is what you critiqued me on last time." And, and so I, so I'm working on fixing it, right? Um, and I think I'm, I'm definitely guilty of sometimes giving too much, uh, too much criticism, right? Too many things that you can fix. But, um, I think it's just one of those things where you go, "Hey, here are the things that I saw. Here's the things I would change." And, and you give them the opportunity to go home to their, wherever they're training, uh, the next show that they're on, whatever it is, and go, "Hey, these are some things that I got as far as criticisms, things that I can fix, and I'm going to start working on doing those things and, and I'm going to come back the next time that this promotion gives me an opportunity, and I'm going to show them, um, you know, that I was listening, right? I'm a good student. Uh, I'm coachable, things like that." So, those are the things that I'm always looking for, uh, when it comes to basketball, right? I don't give a [ __ ] if you're a good basketball player or not, right? But are you coachable? Are you listening? Are you going to try? Uh, how's your effort? Things like that. So, uh, I think it correlates perfectly to pro wrestling. Um, you know, when, when you have those people that are, that are willing to take criticism, it sounds like Ethan is, is very much like that, right? He's like, "Yeah, lay it all on me, man. I want to hear it all." Um, and, and then you're going to sift through it, right? You're going to say, "Hey, what are, what pertains to me?" Uh, you're going to bounce ideas off of other people. "Hey, this guy said like this." Uh, you know, I, I use the example all the time, you know, using a big boot and, um, stepping through it, things like that. Just, just little tweaks that on things that you're doing or, um, selling too much. It was, was a big thing for me, right? "Hey, you're selling for, for people too much, right? You got to look like a monster." Um, and in many cases, it's like, you're not going to be, I don't want you taking any bumps, right? You're not leaving your feet. Um, things like that. So, that's definitely something that I got early on. Um, you know, all the time, right? You're giving these guys too much. You're making these guys look like they can beat you when it's not realistic that they can beat you. So, um, I don't know, man. I, I think you just have to be a sponge and you need to be open, uh, for that criticism and, and, and hopefully you don't look at it like, "These guys hate me and they think I'm shitty." And, and hopefully the situation is, they're, they're telling you something because they want to see you get better and they want to see the, you know, it's for the betterment of the business as a whole."
"Well, I mean, one thing I didn't see a lot of this weekend, I didn't see a lot of, uh, wrestling. And, and that's what, that's where, that's where I'm getting at. Like on the first night, I didn't see a lot of wrestling. I didn't see, I didn't see a headlock takeover. I didn't see, uh, something done to go back to a hold. Do you know what I mean? So, in-ring psychology was not something I saw a lot of. And it was a good experience, the, the first night and I thought, you know, obviously they took care of everybody well and, uh, you know, some big takes out of the weekend was, I've had some great conversations, uh, with Christina von Eerie lately and, and I like listening to what her ideas are with that Starlex and, and the training and what they want to do and I think they're doing a great thing down there and I, and I really appreciate because here's what we get in the business and we talked about it with like Adam, right? And that's why I'm saying the harsh criticism, I didn't hear the criticism. So, but I mean, even if it was, emotions get heavy and some guys, you know, take what they do very seriously. You know what I mean? You take, we take what, today I had a very passionate speech because I turned over at class when I was working on something near the end and we're in the fourth hour and like five or six people, I just hear and they're, and they're talking and I went off and I said, "I'm not trying to be an [ __ ] here, guys, but there's a door that says [ __ ] exit. Like, if you're not here to get your time in and be around this ring, uh, that I take this very seriously." So, that's one thing that, you know, I, I, I can't be mad at passionate people. I mean, sometimes you slip and you say some [ __ ] up [ __ ] to people. Maybe you made it, maybe you didn't. You know, maybe you went about it the wrong way, whatever. But I really, I really enjoyed, uh, the conversations I've had with Christina Voneri because it's nice that somebody is in the law. I remember she had given me, I've heard, I heard some feedback she had given me about another one of my students and they didn't take the feedback as well and I kind of went into the feedback like, "Maybe this person was being an [ __ ]." You know what I mean? But then when I got this feedback, it was almost similar type feedback. It was something like, "Hey, you're wearing amateur wrestling boots, uh, shoes. You look like you got out of a high school wrestling event. You should, you should get some wrestling boots. You know what I mean?" Like, "Oh, [ __ ]. You're right." You know what I mean? I've even said that before to Ethan. "Get some boots. Get some lifts on them. It'll make you a little taller, too. You know, look professional." So, as, as I started going back and listening to this person's criticism and then it came directly to me this time, I was, uh, I felt good because the person that I had trained, uh, handled themselves in a, in a good way in the locker room. You know what I mean? And that's what people want. They want to be around somebody. But just listening to, to the criticism, there's so many sensitive people in wrestling. You know what I mean? And if you're sensitive, you probably ain't going to go too far in the business. And everybody gets so uptight and wound. Like they come up to me and they go, "Oh man, this person said this and this person said that." And it's just like, "Who cares? Did you learn anything tonight? Did it motivate you?" Hopefully, it did. Hopefully, uh, it makes you want to work harder. And the fact that you come back the next day and you go do this and then you do another show and then you wake up the next day and you come to training and put it on even harder. There is like, man, this is just multiple weekends of Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and then I do a podcast. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, then I do a podcast. And to sit there at class and watch all these kids get better and it all start to click. You know what I mean? It was, I had a conversation with Preston Price down in San Leandro and I'm talking to his dad, right? And I, I heard something funny because he said he does the thing and says his dad's sitting right in front of me with his family and brother and they ball in. And I heard someone behind me say, "Balls in." So then I go, "Balls in." And the dad turns around like with the camera and like, "Ball in." You know what I mean? And I'm like, "Yeah, dad's sticking up for the hecklers in the crowd to let you know what the [ __ ] is up with his son." But I had a conversation with his dad and his brother afterwards and him. And I was just like, "Man, I would have loved to seen the dollar signs in your hair again, but you switched the hair." Every weekend, I told this kid, I told, I tell a lot of people, but I told this kid, "Every weekend, even if it's a new earring or something, change one thing about yourself." And every weekend he's changing one thing about himself and he's getting bookings and he's just such a good kid, you know what I mean? And he, he looks good. He's getting in better shape. And that was the only advice I gave him this time. And it's not like he's not in decent shape anyways, by just getting better shape, getting better shape. And, and he is getting in better shape, but I want him to keep knowing when I see him getting better shape, getting better shape, getting better shape. Because you got a chance, kid. You got a chance. And it's nice. It's nice to see feedback and positive stuff going around. I thought it was a very positive experience. I looked at the, I think the first four matches, four heels went over in a row, in a row, in a row, in a row. So, like at the booking, and I'm not, I'm not criticizing anybody else's company because it's their company. But the opening match was, uh, Aaliyah Mia Sweets versus Mo from West Coast Pro. And it was a pretty solid little match. You know, everything seemed to flow together well, but she beat, they were behind the candy girl and she beat the candy girl flat out with a finishing move and then kind of danced over the top of her at the end and then like kind of shucked her out of the ring and then followed behind her, mocking her while she was being helped from the ref. And I was just kind of like, "Well, there goes, there goes Aaliyah." You know what I mean? Like, in reality, because she was getting over as the babyface in the opening contest and then to me, things like that, we got to, we got to watch out and protect what we're doing because you can almost, especially if you want to use somebody again, you can almost bury a babyface if you don't even let them get the heat back or a little, whatever at the end. So, just a couple little, couple little booking things. But I mean, I see [ __ ] booking every single weekend. You know, I watched, I watched 16 matches in two days up close and personal and had a, and had a great weekend. So, I want to, I want to thank everybody who went out there this weekend and, uh, worked hard. And I, uh, the main event, the main event was probably my favorite match and I, I really like watching Anton Vorhees, man. I always have a real good conversation with him after and he's just such a, he's just such a likable dude. But, uh, really what stood out besides the fact that, you know, we're almost around the same age and he can still jump and do all that stuff where I've had to really tone mine down is the fact that, uh, he was really interactive with the crowd. So, the most memorable part of the, the Stars of Wrestling show was Anton because he was, he was con, so vocal with the crowd, you know what I mean? Still doing the, the modern moves and stuff and the athletic stuff, but he, but he found the time to slow it down and talk to the audience in between and it made it interesting and fun for me, man. So, I, I had a very good time, man. I want to thank, you know, everybody this weekend, Big Ugly, for allowing me to come down and do that. And it was a very busy and productive weekend, and I don't see it slowing down anymore. And I, I know I'm talking a lot this time, but man, I'm just, I'm just even more passionate about pro wrestling after this weekend. And the best part about it is I'm not dead tired right now."
"As you sip your coffee to stay awake. Uh, yeah. So, I mean, it's, uh, you obviously, you're, you're talking a lot, but I think you had, you had the most going on this weekend. So, um, the most to talk about, really. So, um, so talk a little bit about, so you, you guys talked about the cut off and the heat, um, when you guys did the training stuff. Um, how many people were there, uh, you know, doing the training with you guys trying to get better? Uh, and then how did that translate, uh, to the matches? You said there was a bunch of matches that night. So, did, did that pay off? Did you see, uh, what you were teaching, uh, during the morning? Did you see that type of stuff going on, uh, in the matches? Was it reflected what you guys were teaching? Uh, or did people just kind of go back to, uh, what they know and, and, and did put that into, uh, put it into place what they learned that that morning? Because, you know, you talked about the first time you were there a couple weeks ago, uh, the things that they worked on, uh, you know, wrestling at the very beginning of the match, uh, was, you know, was prevalent throughout all of the matches. They all started off mat wrestling and things like that. So, uh, how did it go this time as far as the cut off and, uh, and putting heat on people?"
"Um, well, briefly, you know what I mean? Like, it, it briefly, it briefly gets better. Like, there was some guys, I, I, afterwards, I gave an A+ to one guy. I gave an A+ because he kept his hands, you know, he kept his hands on the other guy moving forward. Like, no matter if the shot happened, he still grabbed on and he did that and he, and he left, he, the right, the right speed in the strikes because what happens is when you cut somebody off and we, we went over like the covers too. I had to bring that up because guys are covering over the midsection or even if they hook the leg, they're not stacking him up real high on the shoulders. But I think people are afraid to stay aggressive on their opponent. You know what I mean? Like, they're afraid to stay aggressive on him and stalk him. And that was the thing. Like Ollie was just, when me and Ollie were working together, we were showing him. And one thing Ollie said to me was he's like, "Man, we, we gave them the, we showed them. We literally put it in front of them and showed them exactly how to do it and, and they're, they're just not getting it." And that's something they'll get over time, but like Ugly said at the end of the night, there were better covers and they, the, it's, you know, everyone just throws those flickers when they're fighting back. Just, just real wild, fast flickers to the kidney or whatever area instead of like a good shot and trying to rebuild their position, you know? Knee one knee down, shot, pull myself up, you, then start really building something for myself and then getting cut off. And I think what a lot of people real, uh, fail to realize is, I just got cut off, right? Let's just say the belly to back cut me off, bam. All right, now I'm going to put a beating on you. And that fir, you know, that first one, you're going to start firing back and building yourself up and that first piece of hope is going to be more. Then I'm going to knock you back down. That second piece of hope is going to be less. That third piece of hope is going to almost be nothing. Maybe I grab you and we go down here, down here, wait for the audience to come back up here. But one thing I was saying today is, if, if you are the babyface, right, whether, and the audience isn't getting behind you in the heat, you might as well just pin the guy. The heel might as well just get up and hit a move on the guy and beat him because if the crowd's not getting behind him, his comeback doesn't even matter. He's, you're not going to sell. Nobody cares about this guy. If he doesn't have nothing to get the crowd behind him, why even give him a comeback? You know what I mean? Like, that's the truth about this as we look at it is like, why even give this guy a comeback if he, if the audience is not getting behind him? You're just going to do it just because that's formulaic wrestling or whatever it is. But little bits and pieces I saw like, they, they improved a little bit, but it's going to be hard to improve so much more. They got to keep coming back. You got to keep coming back. You know, if you're, if, if you show up one, one session there at the Ugly Dojo and then you don't come back the next one and we, maybe you come to the third one. If inconsistency doesn't create improvement. Inconsistent. Inconsistency does not create improvement. You do not get better. If you're doing this, you're not learning. If you're not showing up and putting in the work, you could show up and watch it all day long. If you're not getting in the ring and physically doing the rep, you are not going to get any better. So, you know, there, piece by piece, they were getting better. But I just, it's a pacing thing. People feel like they have to be moving around the ring really, really fast and they don't know how to slow it down and, and like even a punch. Oh, man, the punch is coming through. Catch it. Catch the punch right here and you control where it sits on your chin. This guy's just throwing the punch. Catch it. And, you know, just like catching the foot, everyone's just letting each other just [ __ ] rip on each other. You know what I mean? Just, you know, someone forearms me. I'm hook. That's one, one thing I did. Ollie grabbed me and I hooked my arm over him and he goes, "See what he's?" He said, "See what Zach's doing right there?" Like, and we just, it just went together so smooth. Like there was one point."
He called an arm drag, and I gave him a [ __ ] mean ass Ricky Steamboat arm drag. And we're just working, and it's like, man, that, that, that made my entire weekend because there's, there's, there's levels to wrestling, right? Wrestling with Oliver John, wrestling with Adam Thornstone, wrestling with, you know, just wrestling with these different levels of guys is so fun, man. And I was getting blown up. I was getting blown up, right? Because we're in the little tight space. And and I get up and I'd be like, and I'd just be like, "Please don't ask me to grab your arm or do something right now." So he's talking and he's like, "Cover me again." And I'm like, "Other fucker." You know what I mean? So it was just a good weekend, man. All the way around. Even things that people think were bad this weekend. Uh, it's all positive because it's how you take it, man. How do you, how do you want to be remembered in the wrestling business? Well, I want, I want to be remembered as somebody who helped young talent get better. And it's professional wrestling because we should be wrestling into the moves and wrestling into the spot or the spots. And that's it's just a good weekend, man. You, you learn. We said it the other weekend. You can learn a lot. You can learn a lot. You learn from bad wrestling. You don't learn from good. I was talking to Raan Prince about that. I'm like, man, if I see a, if I see a good match, a good match, we don't learn nothing from a good match. We just find something that we can steal or throw into our match to make it better. You know what I mean? We learn from. You got nobody learns unless they make a mistake.
>> Exactly. Yeah. So obviously, you know, we are 109 episodes into kind of the quest uh of what we're trying to accomplish, and that is to make the pro wrestling business, especially on uh the West Coast here, the NorCal region, uh, you know, get better, right? And you know, it's, it's just amazing to hear um that there's a seminar with you and Oliver um and you guys are going going uh into such important things as uh as a cut off and uh and putting heat on somebody because you think about um, you know, and I'm 100% sure you guys were talking about off or uh defensive, you know, offensively selling and um, you know, you're putting the heat on the guy and uh the guy's fighting back and and things like that. So, uh, to not die and and doing all the uh the the little subtleties that we we talk about so much that that means so much or and are those little uh the glue moments, right, that kind of hold the match together. Um, because if you go from zero to hero, um, it doesn't mean as much, right? Or if you die when you're when the guys put the heat on you, like you just said, man, it's like it is very, very difficult to get the crowd behind you if they think that you're just you're a lifeless body that's just getting the [ __ ] kicked out of you, right? Um, you know, if you fight back, um, you know, you're talking about just little subtle things, you know, uh, punching from one knee, working your way up to to fighting back before the guy cuts you off again, right? Uh, where the fans can kind of get behind you, man, and think like, "Okay, the guy that I'm cheering for is fighting back. You know, he might have a chance to turn this around and uh and get, you know, get in control or or give himself an opportunity to win and uh put the guy in danger of of getting beat and things like that." So, um, you know, it's, it's awesome to hear that this is happening, uh, on a regular basis, that there's, um, some small skill that's that's put together throughout the, uh, uh, the seminar in the morning to lead into the mat show and, uh, give them an opportunity to work on a specific skill. Um, and I guess in like uh when I first heard about that I was like, "Okay, so all the matches are going to be exactly the same because you're work everyone's going to be working on the same thing, but um obviously there's so many ways to work on uh a cut off, right? Uh, there's so many ways to work on putting heat on somebody and uh getting the heat put on to you that um, you know, it's it gives you the opportunity to really expand your uh your your wrestling character and your wrestling game uh as a whole. So um, you know, it's, it's great to hear that man. And it sounds like um, you know, after the fact there's a lot of feedback as well um how the matches went. Um, you know, I didn't hear you talk about the kind of what you talked about last time, which was after the show is over. Uh, we're going to clear the fans out and we're just going to talk to the wrestlers and we're going to go, "Hey, here's what we saw, right? U some good and some bad. Uh, this is what we worked on this morning. Um, you know, we wanted to see more of it. You said you're seeing a little bit of growth. Uh, people getting a little bit better." So, uh, obviously this isn't this isn't going to happen overnight where all of the sudden, uh, you know, you guys show them something and then they've just got it right. It clicks and oh, I I I know how to do it now because I saw it this morning for a couple hours or, uh, I experienced it for a couple hours this morning.
>> Yeah. Well, if if you take the time, I took my time to walk back there afterwards, even after we were done, and talk to everybody a little bit about everything that I thought, you know, tall, slender, do this, you got this move. Uh, you know, I, there's a lot of talent down there, man. Ugly had like he would put him baby heel, and then he'd be like, Olly, you coach the baby. Zack, you coach the heel. You guys just yell at him and talk to him the whole time. Like uh the the coaching patterns of what Ugly does and the way he controls the time management of what like I really like the way he coaches because of the time management. You know what I mean? I'm big on time management and getting most out of it. So, and and that's the thing is, you know, do you, you can't expect in a small intimate atmosphere like that that, you know, you're not going to get a [ __ ] ton of fans. You're not going to get. But what you're going to get is you're you're getting a a solid education like Scoot and Samurai were there from SPW and then uh uh Justin Ken from Next Level was there and you know Sin's there with me and Karina Kyle and and all these students and then me and Olly are in there and ugly right there and there's just this it's just what what you cannot not not get better is what I'm saying. You know what I mean? You cannot not get better in that type of of environment. And I too when I first heard the NorCal United thing, I was like, well, I don't know. I don't know how this is going to work. But when you really look at it, big ugly like his like Bishop Jesus, man, every week that kid gets better and better and better and I just keep watching him and I'm like he's the one who really progress through it and and then when Ugly talks he goes, "Well, I'm not going to say anything really positive because he's my kid." You know what I mean? You're like, you're getting the hard knock life right there. You're the youngest of the three wrestlers of a dad who had a a career before you and ran companies. You know what I mean? Like, you're the baby and you're not getting babyed. And it's just I see these students, man, and what they're going through. And Ali's there and to see Ali like, man, what a positive guy. You, you can't not want to be positive. And that's what I was talking about earlier in the program is like, you know, you, you talked about a good locker room. It's like, you got to have a good locker room because a negative locker room can can make a show not fun and having negative people in the locker room just it it takes away from from learning and growing. Like, yeah, life was uncomfortable for us when we first started out, right? Like, people were dicks to us. And no matter if you're seven foot tall or you're [ __ ] 5' 11, people are still dicks to you and you're like, man, you didn't have to be. Thanks for doing it. But how much how much further would we come along if somebody wasn't a dick to us? It's okay to be stern. It's okay to do this. But if somebody would have just came up to us and been like, "Man, you know, you got some potential here. Work on this. Work on that. Don't do this again." Not be like, "Oh, you [ __ ] suck, dude. You shouldn't be in the ring. You're [ __ ] you whoever trained you is a piece of [ __ ] and should." It's like, you don't need to say that stuff, man. That's the type of stuff I'm talking about that like if you can weather through that type of [ __ ] and those type of assh like there's a difference between people who are very passionate and might come across as a dick and then people that are just five minutes remain in this podcast. People who are just a dick, man. Like if if you and I had a bad match, I wouldn't come up to you and be like, "Oh man, your match sucked just as much as your mother probably sucked dick." You know what I mean? Like you, you suck more dick than your mom did. You're that should have ran down your you the best part of you ran should have ran down your mom's leg or something like that. And then to tell someone and the guy who trained you, oh, what is he [ __ ] [ __ ] You know, it's like that's like you just don't say stuff like that. You can still get your point across without uh calling someone a homosexual, saying their trainer bends over and takes it in the ass while uh eating uh pop rocks that are sold past the expiration date. You know what I mean? Like we don't need to do that. Just say, "Hey, man. Positioning was was out there a little bit. Maybe here's what you need to work on. You know, where do where do you work at? Who do you work with? And if you got a problem with that, maybe send them a message and say, "Hey, I worked with this guy, one of your students this weekend." Because that's what I do. I say, "Hey, don't sell out. Sell down. Hey, listen to the crowd a little." I don't go, "Man, you know what? You were just a worthless no good human being. Uh, the match sucked. It was the worst m like when you tell someone it was the worst match you've ever been in, I doubt that, you know what I mean? Like I doubt that's the worst match you've ever been in because you've been wrestling for a long time, especially if it's a veteran guy. So you're telling me the first three to five years of your career, you didn't have a worse match than that one here here tonight? And sometimes people project some stuff. But I just had a really positive weekend. So when I hear negative stuff out of us. A lot of times I just smile and laugh and go, "It's not life or death. No big deal. Don't be a dick. Don't be a dick to people because you don't have to be. Just be cordial."
>> Be cordial.
>> That's right. You want You don't want to hear that comment that, "Hey man, I think you should probably take a break from the business and then uh then quit."
>> Yeah.
>> Take a take a few weeks off and then quit the business.
>> Yeah. You don't want to You definitely don't want to hear that. We just We just want suicide looks good on you, kid.
>> H definitely do. We don't want any of that. But um but yeah, man, it's, it's good to hear, man. The the positivity and um, you know, that that the majority of the weekend was uh uh was was really good. Um, you know, and obviously, uh, the culture that we're trying to create in our locker rooms is, uh, is kind of what we're talking about with surrounding ourselves with positive people that are just trying to, uh, further the business and and help people out and, uh, give good, constructive criticism. Um, you know, because in theory, you'd like to come back around, right? You'd like to have that guy uh wrestle that person again and and the match be better, right? You know, we talk about that all the time, right? You want to have a match with somebody that you can come back and go, "Okay, well, what was the story last time? What's the story this time? Uh, how can we further what we were trying to do last time and and make something better uh the next time, regardless of how good the match was, right? We always want to get better. We always want that that next match to to top that first one or u you know, the series to get better, right? We want the we want that excitement and and the drama to uh to get to a a fever pitch when we when we get to the end of this thing, you know,
>> and just let some things go, man. And unless you're drugged back out to the ring again, unless you grab a referee and drag them back out to the ring again and tell get on the microphone like, "Sorry guys, that last performance we put on was not up to my liking. We're bringing the bell. We're going to do this again. It's it's over. Just move on. Move along, my friend." Some people like to talk [ __ ] and be very negative. I' I've been there before, too. So, I totally get it. But I will tell people that with that type of negativity, karma is a [ __ ] and you're just gonna end up being a miserable sack of [ __ ] with a ton of oil rubbed all over your body while you're standing out in front of a bunch of strangers freezing your little dick off. So for Zack Prime Time Reeb and the seven foot wrecking ball Paul Isadora, be kind. And ladies and gentlemen, we can't rewind because we're living in the [ __ ] present. So, hit that subscribe button for us.