Transcription
This wasn't just someone who was like, "Hey, I'm interested in the case." He was going and downloading the Moscow press releases to his device. Brian Coberger's secrets are being exposed by two experts who did a deep dive into his cell phone and computer. And what they uncovered is disturbing.
Lot lots of like flexing muscles, selfies, half-clod like that. There's numerous instances of that uh on his phone. I talked with the two investigators who pieced together Brian Coberger's digital trail and the things he couldn't erase no matter how hard he tried.
Psychopathic paranoia and studying serial killers into the like it it looking to get rid of his car. He was nervous. Plus, we're seeing new video of Brian Kberger returning home after committing the murders. [Music] Welcome to Crime Fix. I'm Anette Levy. Brian Cobberger. He believed he had thought of everything in his plan to carry out murder. And he really tried to cover his tracks when it came to his cell phone and his computer, but he may not have done a good enough job. Because two experts went through data from his phone and his computer and found evidence that would very likely have painted a damning picture of guilt had his trial moved forward. Those experts are Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart from Celebrate and they're going to join me here very shortly. Celebrate is a firm that employs top experts from around the world in digital forensics. They analyze electronics and they testify at trials. And the things that Jared and Heather found, they're really going to creep you out. And those things could be part of what led Brian Cobberger to ask for a plea deal earlier this summer. Kobberger pleaded guilty to murdering Mattie Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalev, Xanna Kernodal, and Ethan Chapen last month. Kobberger is now serving four consecutive life sentences for the brutal killings. Kobberger was a criminology major at Washington State University. So, he was studying crime and serial killers. One serial killer we've told you about that Kobberger was studying, Ted Bundy, who attended college in Washington, but then killed women in several states, including Utah, Colorado, and Florida. Bundy was caught after murdering sorority sisters in Tallahassee. But the Barnharts say that Brian Cobberger was obsessed with other serial killers. When the Barnharts started digging, they found that Brian Cobberger was searching for serial killer Harvey Glatman. He was a rapist in the 1950s who was known as the lonely hearts killer. He also was called the glamour girl slayer. Another was Robert Hansen who kidnapped, raped, and murdered at least 17 women in Alaska in the 1970s and 1980s. Cobberger also searched for Tommy Lynn Cells, who was known as the Coast to Coast killer and is believed to be responsible for more than 22 murders. But one of Cobberger's searches really jumped out at the Barnharts. That search was for a man whose name isn't as widely known as, say, Ted Bundy. Danny Rowling was dubbed the Gainesville Ripper after he murdered four female college students and a male student in August of 1990. Rowling broke into the apartments of the college students dressed in all black wearing a mask. He sexually assaulted two women in one apartment and stabbed them with a KBAR knife. He also entered the homes of one of his victims through a sliding glass door. Does this sound familiar? This sounds a lot like Brian Coberger and what he has now admitted to doing to Maddie, Kaye, Zana, and Ethan with the exception of the sexual assault. But did a sexual assault not happen in Idaho because Cobberger was interrupted? I believe so. It seems like Brian Coberger copied Danny Rowling. The Barnharts also found searches for pornography on Cobberger's phone, and it was the type of pornography that was incredibly disturbing. They will describe it to you here later. And Brian Cobberger, for a 28-year-old man, had a really close and bizarre relationship with his parents. He called them mother and father, and it seems like they were his only friends. Now, it's not unusual to be close to your parents, but Brian Coberger, for someone his age, talked a lot with his parents. both his mom and dad and he was quite obsessed with his appearance. We'll have more on that later too. So to discuss all of this, I would like to bring in Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart. They are both digital forensics experts at Celbrite. And Heather is also a fellow at the SANS Institute. So thank you guys both uh for coming on to talk with us about your work on the Idaho case.
Thank you for having us. Uh Heather, I'll start with you. When were you first approached about working on this case?
It was late spring of 2023 when the FBI reached out seeing if I was interested in assisting.
And and then Heather, do you reach out to Jared and say or do you go back to the FBI and say, you know, I think Jared, you know, he should be, you know, working on the case, too, or how does that work?
Well, I casually asked them, would you prefer four sets of eyes versus two? and it was a laptop and a phone. So having us divide and conquer I thought could be really helpful and they said absolutely come in and that's how it all started.
So Jared, where do you guys go from there?
So we went into the the FBI office and and just sort of got a a little bit of the pulse of of where the investigation was um some of the digital evidence that they had. And I mean from there you really have to take a a slow look at at which devices did they had they extracted data from. Uh we had a one Android phone and then a computer and then understanding you know what they had already done like they had already spent time and effort in looking at at this evidence and then seeing where our expertise sort of fit and what we might be able to dig for.
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Okay. So, when you start digging into the information, what do you find?
Well, that was the hard part. I I expected I remember saying to Jared, "We're going to go in there. we're going to find the motive. We're going to be able to tell these families why. We're going to understand how this crime occurred. And there was so much information that just wasn't there that was shocking. And that's when I started to panic a bit and saying, you know what, I'm going to use Celebrate Inspector. Um the FBI granted me a license to use Magnet Axiom, which is a competitor of Celebrate. I used open- source tools. It was almost a desperate chase to find data that was erased. And and how hard is that to find data that is erased? Because it it can be done.
Well, it depends on how it was deleted. So on a computer, if you drag something to the recycle bin or if you do shift delete, that information can be recovered for a set period of time. If it's in a database on a computer, it can be recovered for a set period of time until it's purged. But when it's purged, depending on how it's overwritten, it can really be gone. And there are tools out there that will overwrite the data. So it is unreoverable. Mhm.
So, we hear, you know, in the news, we've heard in the past about programs, software, you know, bleach bit, if you will, and I'm not saying that was used in this case, but we did hear that there was some high-end software, if you will, that Brian Cobberger was using to, you know, quote unquote wipe his devices. Is that true, Jared? Is that what was going on?
No. Um, and again, just speaking to the two devices that we participated in, if there was something on something else, maybe that's true, but that's that's not true for what we did.
Really.
Yeah. So, for for the Android phone, um, if you think of it more of not some fancy wiping software, but the user making decisions to dumb down connectivity and make his device uh less fruitful. Um, ultimately he used incognito mode in uh Google Chrome to try to sort of obscure the the records that could be recorded about his web history. Um, you can manually go in and just clean things up, clear my history, like things like that with some time they do actually delete. Um, but he turned off his Wi-Fi and so making his device not able to look out there and beacon and talk to networks that he might have been near. Um, he used NordVPN, which in and of itself, it's benign. It's not something that is necessarily a nefarious thing. Security conscious people use VPNs all the time. Sometimes people use VPNs to stream stuff from somewhere else in the world just for fun. Um, but as you start to build this profile of all the behaviors that he did, um, especially around the time of the crime, um, he set up his device to be dumb, minimally collecting data. And so as we started to tackle um the evidence from the android, it wasn't what's here, but very obviously what's not here. And then hyperfocusing on the minutes and and hours before and after this void of time where his film was powered off in the middle of the night.
And and Heather, he physically the the prosecutor has said this, it didn't go into airplane mode. It didn't they the battery didn't die. He physically pushed this button, the power button, and turned off his phone the night of the murders.
Correct. Um, I got lucky that I had the exact same test phone, make, model, Android version, AT&T network, like everything aligned perfectly that I said to Jared, we have his exact phone. So, we would replicate exactly what we found. So, we would find these log files. Um, we work with a really smart person, Josh Hickman, who is an Android expert, and we would reach out to Josh and say, "Do you know what this log is? What does this mean?" So, we recreated not only did he physically power it off, he turned off Wi-Fi 2 days prior to the murder, he powered off his phone, it was at 100% battery. We're going to testify with 100% certainty that's what he did. Why would he turn off Wi-Fi 2 days before the homicides? What What does that mean? What does that say to you as a a forensics a digital forensics investigator?
I would guess he didn't want to be detected. He knows Wi-Fi scanning happens and we don't know. We didn't have fruitful location artifacts on his device because time to evidence matters and Jared can dive more into that. But if he did prejy runs or showed that he wasn't connected to his home anymore, because sometimes these phones not only show what you're connected to, but if his alibi was that he was at home, it wasn't. It was he was stargazing. But Wi-Fi is huge in putting you at a location. So, he knew that and he wanted to prevent that.
Yeah. A lot of times the, you know, choosing to press the button to turn off Wi-Fi. Um, to me that that was preparation. that was him doing an action that he thought would help him get away with it. But what it ultimately does is it creates logging of the fact that he did that thing, you know, and then now we're talking about it because he did that. Had he just left it on, um, you know, it may have done something, but it may not have also. and that behavior. You can go back and look at his phone months prior to that and see whether or not that is something he routinely did because people are creatures of habit.
Exactly. And that's what we do. We try to pattern of life. What is your norm? And then we let the abnormal speak volumes to us.
And he didn't do that normally. Like Brian Kberger did not normally go on his phone and turn off the Wi-Fi. I I would assume.
Yeah, there were just a few instances in the log where he did that, but I and and I think when this when we talk about this, we tend to focus on like one individual action. Did he always do that? It's really a whole picture. Did he did his phone ever power off, you know, manually by pressing the button with 100%? You know, like maybe he did that once before, but to do all of the things at the same time and in that time frame is when people were murdered. That's the point.
It's not a one-off thing. This is a culmination of numerous things coming together at the exact point in time where these crimes occurred.
So, at the time of the murders, within the two days of the murders, he's powering off his Wi-Fi, right before the murders, you know, he's powering off his phone. Was there anything else around that time period that you found that was out of the norm or unusual?
On his computer? So, this is supposed to be his school computer. And according to reports that I have read, Jared and I did a really good job of staying out of the media, not reading things, not listening to things. But in our investigative calls, he was apparently a good student. He didn't miss, well, shouldn't say good student. He was an attentive student who didn't really miss anything.
He showed up. He had huge gaps in usage from October 12th through November 16th on his computer. However, the computer, just like Jared said, everything you do or don't do, the computer's constantly tracking it. So, the computer would show that browser was in use, but then there's no history that the system was in use, but then there's no activity. So, we know that he was cleaning up his tracks. And what that may be, who knows? And that's something I think a lot of people want to know. What do we think would be there if he hadn't cleaned up his digital tracks?
Yeah. So, before the crime, we could see some browser history. After the crime, we can see browser history. In the period around the time, there's almost nothing. Like, he was manually going in and clearing things around that time frame. And that's just leaves you to wonder what was he searching? Where did he spend his minutes on his phone in the in that, you know, couple days? Because we don't have everything. Instead, we have a void and we have this period where he didn't leave the normal footprints that he did the rest of the time.
So, on the phone, he did Chrome incognito browsing a lot from what we have seen on his computer. He bounced back and forth. So, it seemed like he got a little bit lax in December after the murder and had normal browsing activity. But where he really made mistakes, he did a good job of clearing his browser on the PC. He cleared his downloads. He cleared cash and cookies. So, anything if you go into the settings and it prompts you on which buttons you want to clear. Great. He forgot to clear his downloads on his phone, which was very helpful to us.
So, what did you find on the phone that you thought was telling or indicative of guilt? As we started to dig in, we very clearly saw this couple hours of the device powered off. And so obviously we knew when the murders happened and that literally bookended that time. So the phone is powered off right away. We know like in that in that couple hours we're not going to have the location ping that puts him right at the at the crime scene. We're not going to have health, you know, we're not going to have some of the stuff that we would have had if it were just powered on. Um, but then taking sort of like a step back, so sort of timelining in both directions. Um, we didn't have a smoking gun and and that's okay because when an alibi is I was, you know, I was out taking pictures of the stars, I really silly put in a report. You cannot use a phone that is powered off to take photos of the stars. Like and you might say that's so dumb. Yeah, I know. But but it you know that's what he said it was doing. There was a period of time in.
I know I know I'm just you know we we all kind of you know I think did one of these when we read it.
So.
Right. And so just to say like there were zero pictures in this night of stars. Like not before, not after. Like this wasn't it wasn't photographing. Um, as as you take a step back, then you start to see like there's really there's nothing here and then you start to explore why does Google Chrome have nothing right now? But then later we see every inch of everything he is doing and it just starts to build this profile of specific actions taken to get rid of evidence around the time of the crime, which that in of itself is the conversation. It's the, you know, if you ask me what I was doing on that night, even if I happened to turn my phone off, I wasn't doing all of these things. And if I, you know, looking at every normal person, because I see a lot of people say, well, I talk to my parents every day and I do this and I do that. I was like, great. But with all of these things combined in one single moment in time, it's different than just doing one of these things as a behavior.
And I think it shows premeditated intentions.
Definitely.
Did he Did he call his parents every day? It sounds like, you know, from what we're hearing after he was incarcerated, I mean, he's on video calls on his tablet in jail with his mom for hours every day. So, did you guys find that he was somebody who called his mom and dad like every morning?
Mother and father. That's what he called them in his phone. Mother and father. And yes.
It was very consistent. Like.
Starting at like 5 in the morning his time and then every single night to also put him to bed.
Texting, calling. Um, yeah. I mean, there were numerous times where it seemed like his mother was basically saying east coast time saying, "I'm going to bed and then he was west coast time, you know, still staying up and doing whatever, but it was normal that it was the most, you know, like consistent conversations between them.
Yeah, I think there were even there was a good night text once where she said, "Go to bed, Brian. Calm down." And there were a lot of exclamation points, too, from his mom to him because he would confirm like, "Call now." And she would say, "Brian, I said I will call at 5:30 exclamation point." And he's like, "Now question mark." And she would write 5:30 exclamation point. So he's a 28-year-old guy. I mean, this sounds like he's got some attachment issues. Did you see that? Um, or is he does he come off as very needy when it comes to his parents?
I mean, just based on the communication that Yes. And and there didn't seem to be another person in his life based on what the evidence we looked at that filled any of his time. There's not there's not a friend that got consistent messages. There was pretty much nothing except for his communication with his parents.
The investigators have said there was no connection. They found zero no connection between Brian Cobberger and Maddie, Kaye, Zana, and Ethan. In my I've been to the house many times on King Road and you can see straight into Mattiey's bedroom from that upper parking lot of the apartment building next door. Did is that what you found? Zero connection, you know, not one search of Maddie, not one search of Kaye or Zanna. Not before, but again, he cleared a lot of his history. So if he was searching for it, we weren't able to find that on the devices. And that's one of the things we initially looked for right away. Any ties to the victims. Um, after the fact, he was searching everything associated to the murders. And so he did have that information. Then I want to talk about the um searches he did. He it's my understanding he he was searching watching a lot of news stories on YouTube about this. I mean, he watched our stuff. He he watched a lot of people's stuff on YouTube about this. Searching for his own name related to this um searching for psychopath. What are you what do you guys say about all of that? All these searches that you see initially and this is where it's hard because he was a criminology major. Now, something I would challenge. I have a forensic science undergrad too, and just because I did blood stain pattern analysis doesn't mean that I looked up people who were hitting heads with baseball bats excessively. So, to each their own, we know that's what the defense was going to be. Um, he looked up a lot of home invasions, um, burglaries, co-ed killings, serial killers. Um, there was one search, I remember the first time we found it. Jar I was sitting at the FBI and Jared was not, and I was on the phone with him like, I saw something. We are Danny Rawlings and he was like, "Wait a second. What's that name?" And Jared looked it up and he's like, "He's a the Gainesville Ripper. He's a co-ed killer. Same knife." Like there were a lot of details there that were just too eerie. And then as Jared dove into the phone, there's even more. Do you want to share that?
Yeah. So, um, again.
And I think that was November, right? The first hit for Danny Rawling.
Yeah, I think so. Um.
November of 2022.
Yes. On Christmas 2022. So after the crime, uh late at night and into the early morning of the 26th, he was just like working through serial killers. And the site was specifically serial killer timelines. And so it just basically has this list of a bunch of serial killers. And it seemed based on the timing of it that he was just clicking one, scanning, reading, and then going back and clicking the next one. And literally for a period of time just reading about serial killer timelines. And it's literally a breakdown of like how they were raised, um, what their childhood was like with their parents, that somebody killed a dog when they were young, or that they were beaten by their like, it is a timeline of these people's whole lives leading up to what ultimately is them getting caught for being serial killers. But he did that into the wee hours of the morning after Christmas day.
Wow. And it's that he did search for Danny Rawlings and that one's a really chilling search because Danny Rawlings used a KBAR. He sexually assaulted his victims and he was wearing all black and he entered a couple of their apartments through sliding glass doors. I did some research on that. He also searched for Harvey Glatman, Robert Hansen, Tommy Lynn Cells. Um, did you find any searches for Ted Bundy?
Yes.
Was on the PDF, right?
Yep. Ted Buddy was was in this uh same um search time.
What was Brian Cobberger searching related to pornography?
Yeah. So, to not be too graphic with it, um, the the consistent nature of the searches were non-consensual sex acts, which, you know, I don't know what normal would be, but it stood out to me from I've done investigations for years and tons of mobile device extraction analysis. And seeing pornography is not weird. Seeing what someone is interested in is not weird, but the fact that that this person had non-consensual um specifically only that, not not one other thing that was a consensual sex act. They were all like aggressive or drugged.
Or sleeping.
Voyerism. It was all consistently non-consensual things.
And this was this before after the homicides or both?
Um, it was I'm not sure. It's autofill. So, I don't know that we actually even have a date with it.
Yes.
And that's another thing when you're clearing your history, there's so many things that when you clear your history, you may not think about. Autofill is typically something you enter and it wants the browser wants to please you. So, if it knows that you go to a specific site every day, it's like, "Oh, you're going to this news channel." As you start typing a, if you're going to ABC, it knows I'm going to promote. I'm going to save this for you. And those words were saved in the autofill for Chrome. Now, there has been endless speculation that Brian Coberger could have encountered Maddie or Zana at the Mad Greek restaurant in downtown Moscow where they both worked. The Mad Greek is now closed, but the restaurant served some vegan dishes. Law enforcement has said they found no connection to Cobberger and the victims. I asked Heather and Jared about the possibility that Coberger ever visited the Mag Greek.
Yes, and I would love to specify this a little bit more. And this was the one finding that was in um that was released to the prosecution that they came back and said the defense didn't like it, which made me think we were on to something like this is great. So there is a Google map cache file that was recovered from the Android that showed Mad Greek and it looked like a um I actually have it in front of me. It looked almost like a review or if you think about if you Google in Google Maps and you look up restaurants nearby, you could call it, you could look at get directions, you could look at a menu. So, it looks like all of those things were available. Now, the issue, could it have Wi-Fi in that file? Absolutely. But I don't know. The issue is Mad Greek. Their Wi-Fi name was Mad Greek. So, it's not helpful to see what was in that listing. But what Jared and I had looked at a few times and I plan to keep testing this to figure it out exactly. If the prosecu if the prosecution said, Heather, is it likely that the user was in Moscow and on Google Maps said nearby restaurants or bars and Mad Greek appeared? I would say yes. But if the defense came up and said, "Heather, is it possible that from Pullman, Washington, the suspect searched for restaurants in Moscow and this came up? Could that happen?" I would say yes. So, it's not like we can tie him to the location of Mad Greek, but Mad Greek, he physically saw Mad Greek on his phone. So, you can't say specifically that he was there, but you found something in his phone that indicated that he had at least viewed it on his phone.
Yes.
So, you don't have any evidence showing that his Wi-Fi on his phone bumped up against or tried to connect to the Wi-Fi at the Mad Greek?
No. I wish. And as Jared said, he was really cautious about his Wi-Fi and the cleanup. And there's so many things. Logs are only kept for so long.
Mhm.
And the fact that the investigators didn't know who the suspect was right away. So it took time to get to his device. And on Android, logs can be cleared after 24 hours, a week, 30 days. So time to evidence is huge in cases like this. And there just wasn't a suspect fast enough. Now, Heather and Jared also have some thoughts on that disturbing thumbs up selfie that Brian Kberger took 6 hours after the murders where he is in his bathroom. Jared noticed something specifically about Cobberger's hands.
Yeah, that this thumbs up with sort of the band-aid. As soon as I saw it, it it it catches your eye, you know, because his knuckles look just so white and like it it it reminded me of like scrubbing your hands for days to try to get something off. And then there's this like band-aid that's visible that's, you know, like just barely visible in the picture.
Mhm.
Um, the the hoodie picture as well. It's been like sort of a popular one in the case as well. Um, the general behavior, the as I looked at it, I would have said that criminology major and studies of criminology does not excuse you for the amount of searching, the times of day. This wasn't a healthy, you know, like I'm doing this for my college class type of activity. It seemed very different. Um, I think the the smoking gun, there really wasn't one, but for for his device was his his book end that he put around these these killings. Um, to be awake at that time in the morning, turning your phone off, and then turning it back on. And there's plenty of other records that we didn't access, you know, like the FBI did some sort of cell record mapping for where his phone was based on the cell towers, right? That wasn't anything that we were doing. Um, but the moment that he turned his phone back on, you know, that they can start to take over and say, "And this is where he was, right?" And so for that period of time where these people were killed, uh, he was awake and had turned his phone off and in my opinion had prepared by killing his Wi-Fi, using VPN, clearing all his search history um to do this.
So he was obsessed in your mind with serial killers and had had basically been planning this for some time. I mean, he bought he bought the knife, we know, in March of 2022, but then maybe actually plotting this, Heather, you're talking October.
So, a month prior.
So, you know, he might have had the thought in his mind in March, but the actual maybe planning and selection could have started possibly in October.
Yeah, the gap of why that far back only on browser was weird to me. It didn't it didn't make much sense. And I'm not sure if that's possibly when he decided he was going to be more of a incognito browser. Who knows? It was just really bizarre behavior. And then there were also Jared, do you remember all of the I saw the show or movie American Psycho just a few times and how much the guy loved himself and would take selfies in the mirror and how clean he would want to be and just examining his body. He seemed to do those same types of things.
Yeah. Lot lots of like flexing muscles, selfies half clothed like that. There's numerous instances of that uh on his phone. There was also um he he spent a lot of time on Reddit and especially post crime. Um he was I mean there's tons of history of him looking into like the Idaho murders uh on Reddit.
And that's actually another thing that stood out is this wasn't just someone who was like, "Hey, I'm interested in the case."
He was going and downloading the Moscow press releases to his device. Like not just taking a look at what the news said, but like almost like saving all everything that they populated.
Um, there was a Reddit post that it appears that he made based on his emails where he was looking for excons to participate in some study and people were like emailing him and ultimately you see Reddit suspends him, which I think was, you know, at time of arrest and notification to the world. Um, but there was also a really interesting sort of pattern of things where he read something on the news that said, uh, police still looking for Hyundai Elantre white in color this year to this year, you know, make a model. Within minutes, he searches for a car detailing place and then starts to shop for used cars.
So, it was almost like I realized that they know my car. I have to get rid of it and get something different, you know? So, like again, does a normal person look to clean their car before they sell it? Sure. Right. But all of these things adding up, it just it really paints the picture.
Wow. Well, is there anything that I haven't touched on that you think is really glaring and and a red flag that that you think the viewers really should know about? This has been fascinating. He just had extreme obsessive behaviors like with his mother and father, with the abnormal porn searches, with his serial killers, wiretapping, like even some of the terms psychopath paranoia. Um, one thing I would say to any family, I believe by looking at his computer that he was paranoid in the end. And I think Jared can say the same thing from looking at his phone. It's not I don't think he was just resting easy thinking he got away with these murders. I think he he knew that people were coming for him.
Jared, he he you think he knew?
Oh, yeah.
And he was just waiting. I I definitely think I mean again the the late hours, the the searches that he was doing um, you know, to say like psychopathic paranoia and and studying serial killers into the like it it looking to get rid of his car. He was nervous. He I I can't imagine when he got pulled over coming across the country what he thought in that moment. And then he probably thought I got away with it, but you could tell that he was still very nervously like thinking that someone was coming for him and and they were. You just need a little time to figure them out.
Well, it's been really fascinating talking to both of you, Heather Barnhart and Jared Barnhart. Thank you so much.
Sure. Thanks for having us.
Thank you. So Brian Coberger was obsessed with serial killers, non-consensual pornography, and his parents were his main contacts in his life. And take a look at this. You'll blink if you miss it. The Pullman Police Department released this surveillance video from the morning of the murders. It shows Brian Cobberger's white Elantra driving home that morning at 5:27 a.m. We'll slow it down for you. Take a look again. This camera is near Coberger's apartment. It's absolutely creepy. We'll keep an eye on more news as we find it and bring it to you. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Angelet Levy. Thanks so much for being with me. I'll see you back here next time.