Transcription
And in combined, since then, we've probably done close to about $100 million online. Online, that is not bad. 100 M's worth of knowledge.
This is my like nine-figure play. It made good cash flow. It was good for your 20s. It's not going to get you to $100 million.
Like I was at the point where the next number that would really change it would be $100 million. He was plowing like six figures a month where you're comfortable, bro. You get a little bit of success, your lifestyle goes up, and then you stop taking risk, which was the thing that got you there in the first place. There is this opportunity cost of not taking a bigger swing at this point.
All right, so I got some, I got some stuff for us to talk about. Good, good. Raw business, authentic. I love it.
So I think let's talk about 2025, like biggest wins and even just learning lessons.
Yeah. So 2025 was, um, yeah, that was kind of a crazy year for me. So, like I said, I've had scaling with systems for six years now. Um, 2024 was the year I launched the holding co. I think it took some of my attention away from scaling with systems, even though I had a really incredible team inside of there. And also, as you know, there were some really big shifts, I think, in the marketplace in 2025, end of 2024, beginning of 2025. You know what happened at the end of 2024 is I hit a certain net worth level that if I'm just being really honest with you, like I, at my current personal burn rate, I was like, okay, I'm pretty much set. Like, short of flying private everywhere that I go and buying three or four houses, I'm like, you know, I can live off of this forever. And so I think because of that, I got a little less motivated to grow the business that I had. And at the same time, there was market conditions where, you know, more and more people in the coaching consulting world were entering the marketplace at such a low barrier to entry, and ad costs were rising, and it kind of created this perfect storm where I almost fell a little bit out of love with the offer that I had that I had for like six years. And then at the same time, I realized, okay, if let's just say, just for easy numbers, like another 20, 30 million wasn't going to be substantially changing my life. Like I was at the point, and I hope I don't sound like an [ __ ], I'm not trying to. But like, I was at the point where the next number that would really change it would be $100 million. That was like the next number where it was like, okay, my life is going to substantially change at this, like my lifestyle, what I do, who I help, how I impact. And I didn't necessarily see my previous offer as the vehicle to get me to $100 million. And I even was like, okay, what would be the next cool thing to do? And in my opinion, it would be to do an exit. That was like something that I also really wanted to do because I'm already dabbling in the private equity game a little bit here. That's what I've been, I mean, scaling businesses and building enterprise value, I've been doing. That's what scaling systems was about. And so I thought, well, I need to kind of go through it myself. Similar to what Herozi did. So anyway, that led to the end of 2025. And I talked about this on the podcast.
So 2025, you were mainly just cruising, like maintaining the business, not really growing?
Not like aggressively growing. I mean, and and actually, it's not even fair to say that because, dude, we tested. We were running low ticket. I mean, I put almost $600,000 into a low ticket funnel in Q1, another $600,000 into a webinar funnel in Q2. Um, so I wasn't, it wasn't. Thank you. It wasn't that I wasn't necessarily trying. It was that like, it was the both the combination of me trying a little bit and also it being clear that the marketplace wasn't responding as it essentially used to. Like, you know, I was used to like, you know, putting, let's just say, one unit of energy in and getting seven, eight units of of output out. And now I'm putting two or three units of energy in and maybe getting two or three units of output out. And when I see that arbitrage is no longer there, where I'm working harder for my money, I know what it's like when things are going well with an with an offer, and I could kind of be like, okay, I guess the shortest way to put it is like, I don't want to work this hard for this amount of money, essentially. So, yeah, so at the end of 2025, we pivoted the offer, essentially launched an agency, a done-for-you YouTube agency, uh, and honestly are kind of a little bit getting out of the coaching, consulting, info world. Like that used to be like 80, 90% of our clients were coaches, consultants, agencies. And now we've adjusted our offer, our avatar, our minimum amount of clients, like the revenue that they have to be doing when they start working with us. And now, like, we just closed a client doing $70 million a year. Two days ago, we closed another client that's doing $35 million a year. Yeah. So, we're getting these big, big people.
Not, not in info.
Not in info, which is also cool because like, and and to give credit to Cole, Cole was the one that said this, but it was like, you know, let's say for our YouTube offer, if I go into info for the YouTube offer, like let's say I'm trying to, you're crushing on YouTube, but let's say like you were just doing a little bit in YouTube and I was like, yo, I'll help you with your YouTube. The problem is, you're, dude, you're already a master marketer. You already understand content. You already understand YouTube. So the arbitrage of the value that I could give you through an agency is less than the larger business who is crushing it in every other element except for marketing and except for YouTube. Um, and who, to them, YouTube is like coding. You know, YouTube is like, I don't even know what the [ __ ] they're talking about here. To them, there's so much more value. That arbitrage is so much higher. So not only can I get them better results, but also I can charge more money, etc., etc. And I think that coaches and consultants, dude, other than you, me, Cole, and like a handful of other people, there's not a lot of other like really big players that are still like doing heavyweight numbers inside the info coaching consulting space. So the other thing.
Why do you think that is?
I think because, I think, I think it's the market conditions I was talking about before. I think that number one, the barrier to entry. So the thing, the very thing that makes consulting and coaching so appealing, the barrier to entry is also what I believe is its ultimate downfall. Uh, meaning that because you can teach somebody something so easily, that means that the person that you taught it to can then teach somebody else so easily. Correct? So in some way, you're creating your competitors. The other thing that being in this game for so long and now understanding how big businesses work, you know, repeat customers in coaching and consulting are very low. You know what I mean? Like we had a 32% uh cross-sell or ascension rate for our clients. So 32% of our clients bought our backend or something else, some kind of one-off thing, etc., etc.
Nice.
Now that I'm in, like, let's say the agency space, 90% net revenue retention, which means that let's just say for super easy numbers, in six months I make $100,000, the next six months, that same people that paid me $100,000 pay me $90,000. That's considered the floor in an agency world. Like that's actually really, really bad. Were in the coaching world, if the people that paid you 15 grand for, uh, four months, then those same people paid you another 13 grand for another four months, that would actually be pretty impressive. You know what I mean? Like people don't usually have that cross-sell ascension net revenue retention.
It normally just falls off a cliff. One-time sales.
Exactly. It's you're constantly ripping through one-time sales. And that was the other thing, the last four to five years, or I guess five or six years, is that I've been so deep in marketing and sales like, and so, you know, I'm not going to say I'm the, the best marketer in the world by even a [ __ ] long shot, but I am really good. And it just felt like, like you had said, it was like I was doing all this energy on here and it was just kind of falling off on the back. So it was like, what if I took the same amount of energy but attached it to a back-end product that was able to retain that same revenue month over month, year over year, you know, etc., etc. And so that's why I think that, um, so, so when I pivot away from even working with coaches and consultants, and we still do, you know, it's still probably 10, 15% of our clients, but it's not who we're going after because I think all of them are still dealing with that same issue that I was dealing with.
Yep. So your, your main goal is just maintain your previous business model, consulting, to have that be cash flow but minimal time. Like, how many time, how many hours?
So essentially right now, I'm kind of going through, I think they call it a J curve in in SAS, but it's like, so the consulting, let's just for easy number or easy examples, I'll try to do the illustration here. Uh, revenue for consulting, let's say is right here. And I'm, I'm doing the agency, so now some of my focus is going off of consulting and towards agency, so there's no way that revenue is going to match it. But eventually, we want to hit this curve right here where the agency revenue is now surpassing the consulting revenue because that, I think, has a way higher opportunity to scale. Another example is like, you know, we're getting five to six booked calls a day from, I don't even know where. I think like, uh, uh, Chat GPT is recommending us. People are googling stuff and they're finding our stuff. Like clients are sending our links for so long too.
Exactly. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The credibility there is massive. No, but but I have Hyros for my YouTube attribution. These aren't coming from YouTube videos. These are like, these are, I don't know where. I think it's just because the offer is more appealing and like, I think it's being ranked higher on Google. I don't know what it is, but that was another like, really positive sign was like, literally without me doing anything, we're getting five to six booked calls a day. Minimum 50k a month people, um, where our average ticket price is $36,000. So like that's like, that's been very strong. But, um, the point of what I was saying before was, yes, I'm pretty much maintaining consulting. We'll still sell the occasional person inside of it, but I'm not marketing it at all. I'm not selling it at all. I'm barely fulfilling it. I only do one call a week with our consulting clients. Uh, I'm pretty much putting all my time, energy, and effort into trying to that, that, uh, essentially J right there. I'm trying to make it as shallow as humanly possible. Like, because I don't want to do this transition over six months and I lose all this money, essentially. So I'm pretty much trying to make it as aggressively as possible.
Nice. Just bare minimum maintaining it cash flow and then focus on the next thing.
Which is a big risk. You know, somebody, I, I was hosting a mastermind, that's why I'm here in Miami. And somebody was like, like, what, what if this is a shiny object? What if, like, this doesn't work out? Etc., etc. Which I was like, you know, honestly, it could not work out, you know, but, like I said, I just, I kind of saw what the future of this was. I've been doing it for so long, and so, and I'm getting enough positive indications from the beginning of this new offer. Like, even this morning, I launched an ad and our previous cost per qualified call in Scaling with Systems was like $650, $700. And I launched this ad this morning at $2,000 a day in spend. And we're getting $220, $230 cost per qualified calls. And these are people, by the way, minimum revenue is $50,000 a month, where in the consulting, our average booked call was $25, $30,000 a month, right? And you also think of the different type of avatar that is wanting consulting versus wanting done-for-you services, you know? So I'm getting higher quality people at a lower cost per call. And the biggest bottleneck with services is obviously just the operations and the system side of things, recruiting, etc., etc. But I also find that as one of my superpowers, my, I mean, my company is called Scaling with Systems, like building systems is kind of what we do. So anyway, I might eat all my words. This might be a huge mistake, etc., etc. But the initial, and it's been super [ __ ] hard, I'm not trying to make it seem like it was easy, but the initial numbers and indications make me feel like I'm going in the right direction.
You know what's funny? I feel like we're getting to that age where this is the age where you pivot that, that business you started in your 20s. Everyone's gone through this. Who were the, the class before us, same thing. Sam Evans, Becker, Becker did the exact same thing. Or Mosa, you would even consider as well.
Yes. So I feel like everyone has gone through the same thing where you're like, okay, this vehicle, it made good cash flow. It was good for your 20s. It's not going to get you to $100 million.
And and I think, I think you, you nailed it. And I think that, you know, first of all, I was wise with the money that I made from the consulting. So, like, you know, there's a lot of other people that maybe are, let's say in your, to use your terms, in the class after us, that, um, are blowing every dollar they're making. You know, they're literally Ferraris, Lambos, like trying to play the status game, where I invested in it, and now I have a net worth, like I said, where I feel relatively safe with it. Like, where other people I know that have done millions in sales, literally couldn't even make like a $20,000 rent payment if they had to next month. So, like, I, I think that was a big thing going for us. And, um, second of all, you know, also to give credit where credit's due, like people still, even though the writing might be in the wall, people will still try to ride this like consulting thing into the night. And, um, it kind of takes a little bit of balls to be like, okay, I, because it's not easy what Becker did, what Sam Ovens did, what Hermosi did, like those aren't easy pivots to make, especially because you, there's always that curve where, okay, here I am making these like serious massive cash flow profit every single month and my life's really easy. And you're consciously deciding, okay, let me take a fraction of this profit home. Let me work five times harder than I'm currently working, all for a potential of the business to be even better. So, you got to have some guts to make that leap. But, I feel like if you don't make the decision somewhat soon for a lot of these people that are the class after us, I feel like the decision is going to be made for them.
100%. It's people are not planning that when you make this next jump again, you're actually taking a step or two back.
Yes. And it's going to cost money to live fund this. And when you, you keep increasing lifestyle, you don't end up taking that risk to make the jump again. And and Becker was telling me, he was like, "Dude, I just, I literally, he cut his expenses down."
Yeah. He, he became like a monk, monk. Didn't even buy his furniture and just plowed all of his money into it. Even bro, even Sam Ovens, when school was actually losing a lot of money before he raised money, he was plowing like six figures a month of just money into it.
And it's scary. And also like, and the thing is is like, I will say, I'm not Sam's and Becker where I, I mean, you know, we go out to nice centers and do trips and everything like I have, I do have a level of personal burden and, and a quality of life that I don't want to sacrifice. So that was also another reason why I didn't do like a lot of people will jump into the SAS move, which is like super respectable, but I also knew I didn't know [ __ ] about SAS. So like, you know, I was going to have to rely on somebody else and spend a lot of money. Um, and two, I wanted to use the assets that I had, like you said, my YouTube channel, you know, 400 plus videos, etc., etc. So, I felt like that was an easier play for me to make, but also just selfishly, I was like, dude, I don't want to sell all my [ __ ] and live in like a box. Like, you know, I really love my life.
What's your, what's your personal burn right now? Like, have you found a sweet spot where it's?
Yeah. So if you, I don't think I've ever said this on that video. So if you don't include the, so the trips that we take, we take like probably three or four trips a year with Cole and all them. And those are, those are usually like for each person, my fiance and I, they're probably like, or the total for both of us is probably 50, 60 grand. If you take those out, my monthly burn is probably 40 grand, 35 to 40 grand. You know, that's the house mortgage, that is the cars, that is the food, that is events that we host, like personal events. I have a a boat. I'm buying two more boats. I'm building a dock. I told you I'm building a sauna.
So that's whatever, 400 grand a year, like roughly, uh, 400, a little bit more than that in a personal 35.
Yeah. So, I didn't, I, I needed to make sure that either my net worth would support that or there was enough money coming in from consulting that would cover that in the transition. But I pretty much, I had so, I had my Q3 meeting with my leadership last year, and I pretty much, everything I'm kind of talking about in this video here, I proposed this to my leadership team. I literally was like, "Here's the numbers. Here's where we're at. Here's what we've tried. Here's where the market's at." And I said, "Look, I really like, I'm, I'm at the point now where I could just like not work and I could be okay. I mean, I'm not amazing, but I could be okay. But like, I really want to do this only if you guys are bought into this. So like, I would do this and I would be comfortable if I took home nothing for six to 12 months. Like, I would just plow all the money right back into it again." Which Q4, I made no profit. Like, I really made almost no profit because I just was poor. We had to build a full, uh, creative director, uh, team. We had to build a full editor for the new business, for the new offer. Yeah. I just. And then ads, you know, cuz I was having to test how does it work. So we were spending a lot on ads. And then, you know, we had to even adjust the offer where previously we were trying to sell the 36K on the first call, where now we pivoted to, we're doing a 7-day trial. And so like, I had to go through a huge amount of testing and learning to make that happen. So I, I had to have enough money in the war chest where I could not make money for six to 12 months and be able to make this thing work. Um, and sure, there could have been a slower way that I did it that could have been maybe quote unquote safer or something like that. But like I said, I was just like, as soon as I got the positive signs, I was just like, how can I as quickly as possible get this thing moving and grooving, even if I have to sacrifice like my own take-home pay. And dude, it's just, it's just retaking the risk. Sometimes we get so conditioned where you get comfortable, bro. You get a little bit of success, your lifestyle goes up, and then you stop taking risk, which was the thing that got you there in the first place.
It's so, dude, it's so, you, you said it so well. Like,
Yeah, I think I was at that stage. I think I was just like, and when I think about it, even the, like the big pushes on the low ticket product and the big pushes on the webinar, like I, like even though I spent a lot of money on those things, like.
You know, money is not even the most, like scary, like the most valuable thing for me right now, really, it's like my time. I think that even that I was kind of fooling myself into being like, "Oh, I'm really taking a risk and I'm trying." Where I really wasn't, like I wasn't really stepping so far out of my comfort zone where now I feel like I actually am stepping far out of my comfort zone. But, and the, my fiance even said, like, you know, as you and I were talking before, I just moved to this like, you know, small town and I bought, uh, my hometown that I, uh, and I bought a lake house and like I'm in this like peaceful zen setting. And a lot of people are like, "Yo, when you left Miami, did you like work less? Like, are you like chilling more?" But it's the opposite, dude. I'm like, back to putting in like 12, 13 hour days, like sitting in my office, like, cuz now I kind of have that same excitement and drive that I had when I, there was a lot on the line when I first launched the business. Where let's say in Q2 or Q3 of this, of last year, it was like, kind of just more of the same. Like, I mean, dude, you've been doing this for so long and been so successful that you could probably run most of your business, especially if you were maintaining on autopilot, you wouldn't have to think a whole lot about it. And so the, I now feel again, like I'm in the [ __ ]. It might even be unhealthy. But I'm like, I'm in the chaos again, and I'm like, I'm excited for it.
It's, it, I think it's once you find that thing, the purpose, the energy. Cuz I, I'm, I'm actually in the same boat as you. Is this probably my biggest takeaway? Is last year I shut down one of my businesses, which was another trading offer, which I think.
I remember you had two. Yeah.
Yeah. And that one last year, I did 5 mil.
And we, I literally shut it down because I was like, I can't, by running both, I was fully maxed out.
Yeah. So, I'm like, I'm not going to, making the money from this is not worth my time trade-off and opportunity cost, which I think people don't weigh opportunity costs. And that's really how you need to be weighing. Cuz if you're spending more time and it, you're making the same level of hourly money, you're actually not increasing your leverage.
I had the exact same scenario. I had a B2C offer doing multiple seven figures a year, um, while I was running the B2B. Yeah. And I shut down the B2C because I, I made that same realization. Like, oh my god, I'm work, I'm making, let's say, just for easy numbers, I'm making two times more, but I'm working four times harder. So my dollar per hour is essentially the same between both of them, correct? And then the question you have to ask yourself is, if I took that same four times amount of work and I put that just in this one business, original one, could I make more than two times my current income? Which the argument is probably. And then Cole did the same thing. Cole, like within three or four months out of that, he shut down RCA and uh, went all in on the B2B. And then of course, he launched the holding co and he shut that down. I went back into the BB thing. I sometimes I feel like we have to learn lessons multiple times over and over again. But yeah, it's, I don't think a lot of people extrapolated all the way out to a dollar per hour. And I think the opportunity cost is a huge, huge lesson that you have to learn. You sometimes have to learn like three or four times over and over again.
Cuz dude, we're, we're at the point where we can make money with the business skills we have. It's just what is, what is.
What is the vehicle? What are you, what are you going to? Yeah. Exact example. Like, okay, I now feel confident enough that even if everything went to [ __ ], like I have the skills to make money. And so now it's almost like there, there is this opportunity cost of not taking a bigger swing at this point. And right now, we don't have kids. Like, you know, I'm doing, I'm financially well off. So like, why not make a jump now versus like in 10 years, I might have a regret that I didn't do it here. And yeah, I think comfort is like, yeah, I think that's a huge thing. And, and some people might laugh at that because it's like, you know, how, like, I don't know, I just didn't, I wouldn't think like, once, once you reach a level of success financially, like you could get comfortable, but you absolutely can. It's, and, and I was going to be a lawyer, and they call it golden handcuffs. They're like, you know, oh, you become a lawyer, then you start making 225 grand a year, then you buy the nice house, the nice car, etc., etc. And so I always like put the golden handcuffs comfortably to like the 9 to 5, you know what I mean? But it's funny because it could just be this, like the business owner as well.
That's a good way to put it. We, we got golden handcuffs.
We got golden handcuffs. We got golden handcuffs. Holy [ __ ], bro. It doesn't end. So, so I, I have another topic here in terms of talking about hiring and recruiting A-players. I think this is any business owner, whatever stage, like that is the thing that's the toughest part, I'm sure even for you.
Sure.
Figuring out how to, how to hire well for your next business. Like, how do you think about hiring and recruiting A-players?
I'll try to break it down as simply as possible. One, I think talent acquisition closely mirrors a client acquisition. So, you should treat it as such. Two, I think a brand, just like client acquisition, makes talent acquisition so much easier. Like, I think if you have a really strong brand, you can get really great talent and you could probably get great talent at below market rates because they just want to work with you and work with the vision, etc., etc. So, number one thing, brand is the tide that raises all ships. On top of that, um, what I have found that works really well for finding A-players and great talent is reverse engineering the entire process. Meaning, what most people do is they say, "I need to hire a sales team leader. So, let's go hire a sales team leader. Have you been a sales team leader? Okay, come over here and work at our company as a sales team leader." Instead, when you actually look at the numbers inside your organization, the first thing you have to figure out is what can you afford to pay for this role? So, like, what's your CAC to LTV ratio? Um, is there any margin, uh, uh, for a sales team leader? Do you have to lower your sales team commission comp so you can pay a sales team leader? What does that look like? And then reversing. For me, the number one thing with hiring is the job description. So, actually creating an accurate job description based on what the values are in the company, what the expectations of the role are, what the qualifications are, and what the KPIs. And then I truly think whenever I, I talk to somebody like, "Yeah, I can't hire for that role. Like, I hired and it didn't work." I say, "Okay, how many people did you interview?" They're like, "Three." I'm like, "There's your problem right there." Because truly, if it's a really important role and you've never hired for that role before, you should be doing 30 to 40 interviews. Because in every interview, you can figure out more about the position, more about the compensation, like the expected compensation, more about how your job posting is. Do they have feedback on like how you can make your offer or job posting better? Um, more about what the responsibility should be, what the qualifications should be, etc., etc. Like, when I've hired for director of operations, chief marketing officer, these are all roles I never had hired for before. And so I would do 20, 30 interviews, and by the time I got done with those, I would be like a master at understanding what I should look for in these people. And I feel just the most, what most people do is they say, "I need to hire a sales team leader." They do an email blast. They post on their social media, and then they, they do interview two or three people. Of course, the salesperson sells them on why they're a great sales team leader, and they just hire that person. Or, or this is the funniest one, I need to hire this person. Uh, you post inside your general Slack channel or you message your salesperson, hey, I think you'd be a good sales team leader. And they hire right away. Instead, figure out first exactly who you want. What does the dream person look like? And then once you do that and you put it out there, then you don't settle for anything less than that dream person. So that may be the person. Like, when we were hiring recently for a role, I created the application and then I sent it to somebody in my team and I said, "I think you'd be a great fit for this role. Would you apply here?" And so they applied, but ultimately I didn't hire them because they actually weren't the right person for that role. And so I think that person was happy that I even reached out to them in the first place and said, "I think you're the right person." But I don't think that they were upset that I didn't hire them because ultimately they didn't match the criteria qualifications of what was on the the application. And the final piece I'll say is everybody sucks at hiring. Everybody sucks at hiring in the very beginning. There's no coaching program or course content or YouTube video you can watch and you're like, "Oh, wow. I really understood hiring." It's literally just about volume, which is why doing 20 to 30 interviews will make you better. And sometimes, yeah, you just got to hire the person and then you figure out, "This is the wrong person. They're terrible. Let me go back and hire another person and what did this person have that I hated?" And let me try to identify that earlier on. And that's the exact same thing with clients. You know what I mean? Like in the beginning, you're like, "God, I just need money. Let me work with anybody." And then after you work with five or 10 people, you're like, "Okay, I hate these people. I love these people. Let me try to find more of these people, less of that people." I think talent acquisition is the exact same thing.
Yeah. Volume, volume.
Volume, volume, volume. Practice, practice, practice, and know that you're going to suck. Nobody's good at it in the very beginning. It's just that it feels more high, like high risk because there are literally other human beings that you have to talk to and deal with and work with and train and onboard than, let's say, a piece of content that you put out there by yourself in your room. So there just feels more high risk, but you just need to do more of it, essentially. I hate to give that boring answer, but it's the truth in my opinion.
I think most founders, if you pulled up their calendar and you looked at how much time was dedicated to hiring, Yeah. It is probably a sliver and it's 95% of other stuff that they want to do or deep work or they're stuck in meetings or in fires. And in reality,
That's the exact reason why the business is plateaued is because,
That, that time in the inputs don't match the output, the outputs.
And it's the most high-leverage thing you can do.
And you said it really well too, it's like, let's say they're doing marketing or whatever they want to do, whatever they're good at, you know what I mean? Like, correct. You know, I talk a lot about the theory of constraints to my clients, and like, a lot of times people are like, "Oh, I have a marketing problem," only because they want to spend time on marketing when they really probably have a product problem, but they don't want to spend time on product. So instead of working on the product, they create five or 10 different funnels, hire new sales teams, test this new email marketing system, etc., etc., because they're good at marketing and they feel comfortable with marketing, where you really just need to make your product better. I think it's the same thing with hiring. People try to, they, they try to systemize and AI and automate their way out of hiring a team, but there are no one-person billion-dollar businesses. Like, you, at some point, okay, you could have a million dollar revenue per employee, but at some point, you have to hire employees. So yeah, I think it's a fear that you kind of got to eventually get over for sure.
Yeah, 100%.
Good question.
Best systems we've built in our businesses. What would you say are some of the best systems? It could be AI, even as well. Like, what are you using right now that you're just like,
"Holy [ __ ], I, I don't know what I do."
Yeah, it's a good question. Okay, a few ones that have come top of mind. Number one, our sales quality control feedback system. That's huge. Like, so managing our sales team using AI. Every single time a sales call is done through Fathom, we zap the transcript to a GPT that we have trained on our script in our sales process, and it immediately messages it inside Slack.
Custom ChatGPT that has like our own, uh, all that zap to do that.
We use Zapier to do that. Yeah. Yeah. From Fathom. There might be a direct integration, but yeah, we use, we zap it from Fathom to ChatGPT, ChatGPT to Slack. It tags that salesperson, puts the notes inside of there, and then the salesperson has to respond back in that thread with, uh, what they're going to do or whether they disagree, etc., etc. Now, you'll never have a human being beat the AI, or at least right now, as far as QC is control, but you'll definitely have volume beat the human being. So, if I can do that on every single sales call, then it's going to be way better than my salesperson picking, you know, one to two calls a week per rep because they don't have enough time to do the rest of them. The second, and this is actually probably the most valuable thing I've done systems-wise. So, we launched this, uh, done-for-you YouTube offer. We blasted to our email list. We started running ads. I created the marketing. The original like marketing messaging was, "Get clients from YouTube," right? And so, then we did our first 35 clients from that. The problem was was that as we started seeing the clients that, uh, failed on their second payment, maybe didn't see the best results, complained, whatever else it is, we started to get feedback as far as who our ideal clients were, as well as what we really were selling. And so there's a system I've built and it's not even like with Zapier and automations and stuff, but essentially literally probably two, three times a week, I'll just take a bunch of the sales calls that either closed or were ideal clients, or I'll take QC quality control feedback from our fulfillment team, etc., etc. I'll pull those transcripts. I'll put it inside of, I actually use Gemini now more than Chat. So, I'll put it inside of Gemini and I will say, uh, and I'll put our avatar worksheet and I'll say, "How in line with the people that we're speaking to is our ideal avatar, and why are they not the same person?" And then I'll give it our video sales letter. I'll give it our ads. And I'm pretty much trying to create this really beautiful feedback loop where I think that sales calls are probably the absolute most valuable feedback you can have in a marketing and sales process. So I'm taking that and I'm saying, okay, who are the good ones? Who are the bad ones? And then how do I create the entire marketing sales process? So we're attracting more of the good ones and repelling more of the bad ones. So a great example of this is we eventually realized that we actually don't like working with people who need like, "I need five clients from YouTube this month, or I can't renew next month." You know, because YouTube's a little bit more of a longer play game, you know? So now we move the messaging from "Get clients from YouTube" to "Increase your conversion rates from YouTube." So people are spending 30, 40, 50 grand a month on ads and they need to increase the amount of leads that close and they have no brand presence. So now we're getting people, we're selling that. The video sales letter had to adjust, the sales script had to adjust, the, um, the onboarding call script had to adjust. The ads had to adjust. And then we do that, we take those clients in, we get the feedback, we go back again and repeat that process over and over. And that's how like within a 60-day window, we went from the average person booking on our calendar being 25K a month to now the average person being $300,000 a month.
Because you're looking at who's. Yeah. It's basically after the sale, which people don't talk about.
Nobody looks at like, and, and we're looking at who's getting the results, who's paying in full, who's giving us, you know, you know what NPS is, but a Net Promoter Score. So, we ask people to give us quality control feedback during the process and who's giving us the best feedback, what are they loving about it? Another great example was I also realized in this process here that the PE, we were originally doing eight videos a month was part of our package. Well, I realized that the clients that we were working with, they were, they already barely had enough time in the day. So, they didn't have time to do eight videos a month. So, they were happy with four YouTube videos a month. So, I switched it from eight to four. And, and when we were saying eight, people were feeling like if they didn't get eight, they weren't getting the value out of the offer. So, I switched it from eight to four. And not only did I cut my cost of goods sold in half, but now, uh, we're having clients that don't feel so bad for not filming all eight videos, and we can spend more time on one video. Um, and I also got that from iterating the feedback and process back and forth.
Yeah. Nice.
That sales and marketing one, I'm definitely going to build.
Yeah, dude. I, I'm telling you, I, I talked to Cole about it, a bunch of other people like, I'll show you some of the stuff when we get done with this, but like, the real secret is having a document of truth. So I just have this avatar worksheet, which is like, these are the two ideal avatars. And then I have what we call the anti-avatar, which for us is called the lead seeker, which is like, I need these leads tomorrow, whatever the next day. And so all I do is the simple system now is cross-reference the sales transcripts with this ideal avatar. Are we attracting the right people? And if it is the right person, what are some of the, uh, common words that they all use that then I can now push into the top of funnel marketing, uh, stuff so that even the marketing is now more effective because I'm using words that they actually use in, uh, in their everyday sales process, essentially. And then, dude, we have some wicked, wicked good systems on fulfillment. Like, I've been doing crazy. ASA came out with a sauna AI now. So like, we have pod structures. And if I'm talking too advanced or too fast, you can let me know. But we have pod structures in our fulfillment, uh, process. So like, one account manager, one creative director, five editors, etc., etc. for every 25 clients. So now whenever we get a client onboarded, uh, we have this, uh, a project management pipeline for all of our clients. And Asana will read, okay, which pod should we put this client in based on how many clients are in every single pod. So it's essentially like a coordinator. I'm using AI for that. And then in every pod, there's five different editors. And so every client gets a specific editor so that they have their brand, voice, etc., etc. So then once it selects the pod, it looks at the pod directory and says, "Okay, um, out of these five editors, look at all of their clients and see which one has the least amount of clients and assign that person to that, that editor."
So it's basically like a VA.
Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. A VA doing, but I don't have to, but it's not even just like paying for a VA, it's also like, you know, I'm just trying to have the, you know, the issue with agencies and done-for-you services is the headcount, you know what I mean? Like your revenue per employee is so low. So I'm just trying to see what are the systems I can put in place so I can have like half of the amount of employees I would need to hit the revenue levels I want to hit.
Yeah, 100%. Nice.
All right. You share your, your systems. I want to learn something here.
All right. For us, I would say we're in process of building the sales one, by the way. That's why I'm curious on asking because that, I think we should have that done in the next couple of weeks.
Yeah.
The marketing one we have is pretty beast. Okay. Which is basically,
All our best performing VSSLs and ads in the past, top performing competitor ads over the years, and VSSLs and webinars. And then that's just trained up. So now when we write an ad or a VSSL, and it ranks it, I know like where it's going to be at with a pretty high accuracy.
Ranks it in. What do you mean where it's going to be? Like where it's going to be at as far as cost per lead, cost per acquisition, ROAS, or what?
No. So, I will, what I'll do is I will say like, hey, rank this, this new VSSL. Let's say I'm doing a new VSSL. Hey, rank this new VSSL on a scale of 1 to 10, including decimals, and explain to me why. And it'll tell me, you know, why it ranked it like that, where which sections are weak, and it's like 90% accurate.
And, and then when you test it, yeah. Do you find that like when it gives it a higher score, it is corresponding with a higher return on ad spend or whatever else it is?
Yes. Yes. Or just the, the VSSL working off the bat, or the ad.
And what are you using, GPT or?
That we built it on Claude.
Yeah. Claude is really good for writing.
Yeah.
So Claude, we built that on. So that I would say is good because now, I mean, dude.
We don't. We have a very small marketing team, and we still, you know, spend quite a lot of money. But it's like we don't need so, like, you don't need a copywriter out there because the 80/20 of the ad creation is just the idea or the angle itself, and then that bot can do.
>> Are you asking it for angles as well, or no? Are you coming up with your own angles?
>> We come up with our own angles, I would say.
>> Yeah. So, walk me through, like, your ad creation process from scratch.
>> In terms of like angles.
>> Yeah. Like, you, I'm sure you, what do you film new ads every week or something?
>> We do it every month.
>> Okay. So, so you just, does somebody present you the scripts? Do you just do some, yeah, walk me?
>> Yeah. So, I don't even film the ads anymore.
>> Okay.
>> But basically,
>> Who films the ads?
>> My sister.
>> Okay. And you, she's like talent. You pay her.
>> Exactly. But like, if, if she wasn't doing it, I would pay somebody else.
>> Exactly. And, and was that a pretty easy transition to get you out of ads and your sister to do it?
>> I would say so.
>> And, and is she on VSSL?
>> She's on VSSL.
>> Okay. And did you get started getting more women when that happened?
>> I started getting more women as well.
>> Okay. But then, but overall the ROAS is the same?
>> But because of the narrative and story, we still also got a lot of men. And also, like, once she films it, I have male actors film the same winning ads.
>> Oh, really? Okay. So she's like the first one.
>> Correct. And then for the male actors, do they send it to their own VSSL, or do they send it to her VSSL?
>> Her VSSL.
>> So male and then to female, but it still converts?
>> Still converts.
>> Yeah. I really, you can keep on telling me about the ad testing for. But that's that's also my next big step is I want to hire talent and get out of the ads. I just feel like that's such an exhausting process to do, especially when we start spending a lot of money on ads.
>> Yes. 'Cause you have so much stuff to do. So, but just, it's very possible, basically. I'm confident you can do it.
>> And you, and you, yeah. The transition was almost like no problem. Maybe a slight hiccup, but basically the, the first way to do it is, let's say you have your winning angles running right now. Find different talents to record those winning angles.
>> That look like me.
>> Or I guess you did somebody that looks totally different. Yeah. It could just be. Dude, I would literally even hire a female to do your winning angles right now.
>> And then what you're going to see is like, some will just fit your audience, do well, and you just have them continue working. You keep filming winning angles, have them keep filming it. And basically, once you see enough data, you're like, "Okay, clearly every time she films my angle, it's working. If not, it's doing better." Like, my sister's ads do better than me.
>> And did you ever test your sister's ads to your VSSL?
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> So,
>> I'd be curious if that worked.
>> Uh, actually, yes, I did. I did. And it did work.
>> It did work.
>> It did work.
>> So, why did you have her rate? Because it was a higher return?
>> Because, yeah. So, that was actually the first transition. It was actually to the, the VSSL that I filmed.
>> Okay.
>> But once her ads started beating my ads, the next time I filmed that VSSL, I had her do it.
>> And I didn't even film that to test because I just knew from the ads that she was going to crush.
>> So,
>> Okay. So, she, so you don't, so then once a month, are you even involved in the process?
>> This is just behind the scenes, like looking at the copy and the angle.
>> And does she, does she live here? Or no?
>> No.
>> Okay. So,
>> So, she doesn't come down here?
>> She doesn't come down. There's a videographer where she lives, and then it's just filmed. Like, we have a good system for that.
>> You'll have to tell me what you compare. You can tell me offline, but I'm curious what you pay, like, the talent for that. But
>> Yeah, I'll let you know. I think Cole also has, he has a guy that films as well.
>> Yeah. And a couple other people I know similar to our levels are are having talent, and I'm just like, I feel like I'm the only person that's still doing all my ads myself. So, like, it does feel like
>> Yeah. The only benefit I think is like just further brand awareness on my own face. Like, you know, you're spending that much volume and you're getting that many impressions a month. Like,
>> Like, I guess to be a little bit selfish, it is nice to kind of have that. But at the same time, for scalability's sake and for reaching new markets, um, like the female thing is cool. Even one of my old account managers, she, after, um, she stopped working with us when I shut down the B2C company, she ended up launching an offer, which is, like, if you're a guy in the info space, she'll create a female ad and VSSL for you that goes out there and does it. Um, so that's why I was curious if who are getting females through that funnel as well.
>> Yes. Yes, you will. But then that's where you can balance it by just having, you know, you can find guys who look like you. They don't even have to look like you as well, but I would obviously start with a guy that looks like you and then just a female that you think would fit well for your audience.
>> And there's no narrative in the, in the VSSL that's like, you know, I'm Tim's sister or anything like that, is there?
>> Um,
>> It could, there could be, I guess, 'cause your dad's involved, too.
>> Yes. You would need to paint the story. So, for example, like if someone's filming an ad and you're in the VSSL, somewhere in the ad, they need to talk about, "This is Ravi in the body. Ravi does X, Y, and Z." It's like credibility, but passing it off to you in the body.
>> Yeah.
>> But obviously, the hook, the lead can still be whatever is what you're talking about, your YouTube thing.
>> Right? It's like you're hooking them in with whatever YouTube thing it is to get their attention. They're interested. They watch the hook, the lead. So then it goes to the body, and then that's that's where you come in. So either they, they're talking about you for the body, or you can film the body.
>> Yes.
>> Right.
>> God, it must be nice not being part of the, uh, Are you doing short-form content?
>> No. I, I personally think the [ __ ] secret sauce is Meta ads and YouTube videos. Like, the only reason I think Shorts are valuable is just for brand awareness. So, like, if someone clicks on your ad, there's something that's on there. So, I think repurposed content, I think statistically, based on my own numbers, because I used to track it really well, repurposed content almost always performs worse than like a native video that you did. But if your goal is not to get as many views as humanly possible and it's just to kind of like have some presence on the platform, I think that's exactly what you're doing, which I might even try to start, uh, streaming. But I think that long-form YouTube videos, paid ads, and repurposed on Shorts, it's like the biggest. And especially if you're not even doing the ads, that's like huge. You're in a good leverage spot right now.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. To me, it's that's that's a trifecta. And this stuff that I'm building is just more my play on brand versus like,
>> You know, even with, um, my current brand, like, you know, there's someone that films YouTube videos for it as well. That's more
>> For, for the offer.
>> Yes, for sure.
>> Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause in your videos, they're not even, like,
>> They're not even like, I don't even know if you're making CTAs for your
>> No, this is my like nine-figure play, just like how you're doing that for the agency. Yeah.
>> I'm going brand first here for that play and then figure out what to launch after. So,
>> That's getting the right eyeballs, like, yeah, I think that's massive. Um,
>> Yeah, I'm going to have to take notes on the talent thing as well.
>> Dude, try the talent thing. That's
>> And, and, and then for the, uh, for the scripts. So, who's writing the scripts? Do you have a copywriter or do you have?
>> Okay. And they're just giving them to your sister and it's like, here's five hooks, five bodies. We'll write it. And then obviously, I review because I think, you know, this copy is super, super important. Yeah. So I review the copy, give my comments, etc. Once the final version is done, then they meet with my sister, talent for anybody else, go through. You got to meet with the videographer as well. They got to understand the shots, etc. And then that's it.
>> Do you guys are scripting out the shots as well? Or
>> Oh, really?
>> Yeah, we used to not, but I think scripting out the shot is important.
>> So, give me an example of scripting a shot. Like, walking, like multi. So, let's say you have your script, right?
>> You're going to create another column next to your script and you're going to highlight and have a comment saying, "Here for the hook,
>> You are, you are walking while filming this hook, or you are turning around in your chair, or you're holding X, Y, and Z thing."
>> So, you're, are you trying to do it almost always on the hook to do some kind of pattern interrupt?
>> The hook is the most important, I would say. And we film, we film for every ad three to five hooks.
>> And then we'll just get a little nerdy here for a second. In the ads manager, are you launching them as dynamic creatives for each angle underneath an [ __ ]?
>> That, I, I don't know anymore. My media buyer has has run it. Yeah.
>> Um, I haven't seen what level of nerdiness.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I have been looking to add add.
>> All right. Well, kudos to you. You're more systemized than I am on the marketing.
>> I don't know.
>> That's like the last part I haven't removed myself is on the marketing. Yeah. I also think it's because I love it so much.
>> Exactly. I think it's all to your advantage.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I like it a lot.
>> Um, where I'm getting super in the weeds is the, the YouTube side, 'cause I feel like it's just,
>> Dude, this shit's like a skill. Like, I'm sure Mr. Beast, if he was sitting here right now and he'd looked at our channels, like us, I would do this thumbnail, this title, film this next video, and we'd probably get 100K views. Like, that's an insane skill to have, bro. That's that's kind of my next phase is like learning content, but to that that level.
>> But do you feel like, how is that going to transition over for the business, or is that all just going to be the play for your, the brand and the nine-figure thing?
>> You're saying for my current offer?
>> Yeah.
>> I would say if I can get to the point where I develop this level of skill. So, for example, I created another, um, AI bot as well, which was just like, you know, we've worked with a lot of different creative directors in the past in the YouTube space, like big people. We basically from all those transcripts from our winning videos, our non-winning videos, and obviously, we don't have like some insane amount.
>> Sure.
>> But we, we trained a GPT well enough where it's like, when I'm scripting and I go through it and I put it in there, I'm like, "Hey, like, how do I improve this script, this hook, the structure? Do you like this this angle?" Because it knows about my brand as well. Or they're like, "No, we would actually repackage and do this video this way."
>> And so by doing that, I'm now starting to learn like, "Okay, this is how like I need to film this outlier to give myself the best chance at going viral because I'm using my own differentiator."
>> Yeah. And I also think that like, so we do similar stuff for our clients. I think one thing that people overlook is like, okay, let's say you're looking at somebody else's outlier, too. But you also need to like almost put the lens on of what has performed well on your channel already. Like, so just because it performed well on somebody else's channel,
>> Correct?
>> It doesn't mean that it's the same thing that's performed well on yours. So, I think it's a great strategy to look at outliers, but yeah, if you can cross, like, even recently, we did a video, um, and our videos don't get insane views, but they book hella calls. But, um, yeah, I just was like, "Okay, here's the video that did well somewhere else, and then here's all the videos that did well on my channel. How do we blend these together?" And I ended up, I got a 4.5x outlier. And I was like, "All right, I'm just going to do this." That's what we did for our clients. And it was the first time, 'cause honestly, dude, I've been so deep in product and this agency switch that I put out like two videos in three, four months, which I was doing two videos a week for like a long time, years, and then I was just like, "Okay, something has to give. Like, I I have to I have to put something." Uh, and, and the thing about the agency offer, like I said, is I don't know if it's 'cause the offer is so good or what, but we were just getting so many inbound qualified calls already, and I didn't have it all the way dialed in yet that I was like, "Cool, the bottleneck now, which is just so funny to say, 'cause in being the info space so long where the bottleneck is always more booked calls, you know what I mean? Like, it's always, you just need more booked calls. The bottleneck there was just like, no longer that I needed booked calls, it was that I needed to work on the product to make it good enough." And now in Q1, we switched back over to book calls again. But, um,
>> So, what's this year? What's your YouTube game plan?
>> Uh, my own personal YouTube.
>> Yeah.
>> Honestly, I, I see it as one of three ways, right? So, number one, I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing on my channel right now because it is producing really qualified sales calls. So,
>> Pull up your channel.
>> Yeah. Continue to produce higher quality, higher intent YouTube videos that maybe get 5 to 10,000 views, but not go, like, I'm not trying to go insanely viral on it. The second thing is, uh, I am going to likely, so I saw Hermoszi do this the other day, but I am going to likely do a, a second channel where I take coaching calls, mastermind recordings, like, etc., etc., and post that on a second channel. Hermoszi calls it Herozi Highlights. I want to do something like that because, dude, I have thousands of hours of content of me doing one-on-ones with people, especially if I can post some, figure out what performs well, put it through a similar GPT that you're talking about now, put hundreds of other scripts in there, and it says, "Hey, based on this one that did well, pull this clip from this video here and post it again there." And it's also another leveraged way that I can post videos without having to actually film them myself. So, that's one that I want to do. I even was even thinking of doing something like, obviously you know who Dave Ramsey is, but like almost like a call-in show where I can have my subscribers somehow like apply to get on a call with me and then post. You know who did that? Was actually, uh, Dan Henry. He would have an application in his YouTube video, which is like, "Hey, apply for me to audit your business on a YouTube call." And then he'd get on a call with them and do a live video. Which is a good way to sell consulting, you know?
>> Yes.
>> He still does that? Or, or
>> I don't think he does it anymore. No. But, but I would have to do it on a separate channel, you know? What I mean? I couldn't do it in the same channel.
>> No, no, I would do it on a separate.
>> Do you have call to actions through this? Like,
>> So, I, we, for myself and our clients, we do two CTAs. One mid-roll, and I do, it's actually three technically. One mid-roll and then, uh, one at the end where I'm dropping the CTA to work with us, and another one to where I say, "Watch this video next" so I can keep the watch time higher on YouTube.
>> And the "watch this video next," is it to a VSSL, or it's just to?
>> No, it's to a super relevant one. Yeah, 'cause like YouTube loves watch time per channel. So, if I can get them to watch another video, and it's going to be hyper relevant to what I'm ever I'm talking about here. If I can get them to watch the next video, then I'm going to promote the video more on YouTube.
>> And would you say if you didn't have the two call to actions in here, that people would book a lot less calls?
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> Really?
>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Even Cole, when I was talking to him about it, he was like, he left me a voice note. This is like four months ago, five months ago. He's like, "Dude, you're going to make fun of me when I say this, but I wasn't doing any CTAs on my videos and I was getting like no booked calls. And the first video I did a CTA on, we got like an insane amount of booked calls almost right away." Yeah, it is kind of funny. It's like,
>> Because you know the whole like jab, jab, left hook.
>> But, but if you think about it, even Hermoszi broke it down as well, like that's not based on like number of pieces of content. That's really based on, think of a TV show, right? They found the perfect amount of time that they can get somebody to watch before they show a commercial. And so typically a 22-minute show will have three breaks inside of it for commercials. So, it's if I'm doing a 17-minute video, like I don't have to put three 17-minute videos out before I do one thing. I could do it in like, let's say, whatever, 8 minutes into a 17-minute video. And sure, you're right. I could potentially do less or do one every couple videos, but you know, my YouTube channel is really to for sales. That's a. It's like, so I, if it was like a brand and sales play, it would probably lean more on the sales side than it would on the branding side.
>> Interesting. So, this video as well, two call to actions?
>> Two CTAs.
>> Halfway through and at the end?
>> At the end. And then the second CTA at the end is. And but the secret to the CTAs is it's almost like when you're watching another YouTuber and you realize like 25% of the way through the ad that like you're watching an ad, you got to make him like three seconds. Like, what do you say? Like, let's say for,
>> Like, uh, this video, "I quit social media, grew faster." So, uh, this is actually why I talk about how I stopped doing Instagram. Uh, so like I might be in the middle of the video and I'm showing like the stats of the YouTube sales coming in. I might be like, "Hey, by the way, if you want to have YouTube sales like this coming in your business, click the first link in the description down below." And you keep going.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, it's not an insert, usually?
>> No, no, no. The insert, the insert's good for scale because you don't have to do it, but it ruins the break of the, you know, like, like when you're watching another video on somebody else, anytime you see the change, you just skip ahead. Even YouTube now, I don't know if you sort of noticed it, it shows a jump ahead button. Now, if somebody starts reading an ad, like a sponsorship ad in the middle of it, there's a jump ahead button in the bottom right and you can just skip right past that because what happens is the algorithm reads and sees that 95% of people are skipping this entire section. So, they're giving you the option to skip and go ahead there. So, you have to make it short and super native. So, like, they wouldn't be, it wouldn't even make sense to try to click and move it around at that point.
>> Yes, that makes sense. So, dude, basically what you're saying is, right? Like, let's say, even, even at the peak of all this, when you're just getting, yeah, let's say 5K, 10K, 15K views, even though it's not like about going viral every single time, you can still get very high booked calls just a pure middle of funnel.
>> And I mean, you couldn't even say like, it's not even middle of funnel. So, we just, so we just closed somebody, uh, yesterday. I, I had to call my sales director this morning 'cause I had my event yesterday, so I was trying to catch up with him.
>> And he was like, "Yeah, dude. This guy kept on saying like, 'Hey, hey, uh, I just found you guys. I just found you guys and like I like all your stuff.'" And he booked and he closed. And he was like, "So I was like, 'So like, you find us on ads?'" And he's like, "No, he kept on saying, 'Find us on YouTube.'" And I was like, "Are you sure? Like, are you sure it wasn't an ad?" So we looked it up in Hyros and it showed the second video I just did, uh, or actually the first video, whatever the business is hard, uh, YouTube video. Um, he came from that one. Yeah. 1.3,000 views. And so he just closed for $36,000. Saw the video and then closed, uh, literally the next day for, um, or like two days he booked and then closed the day after that. And this is the first video that he saw. He might even watch this video. I don't know how much he's on YouTube. But,
>> Interesting.
>> Yeah. So, it's super. And that's also why I also really appreciate the agency offer because going back to what we said about lifetime value, net revenue, retention, etc., etc., all of my views just became, let's say, like 70% more valuable because now I am charging way more and my clients are renewing or hopefully they'll renew. Uh, I have a higher net revenue, retention, etc., etc. So now I care even less about views as long as I'm getting booked calls coming in.
>> Wow. And that's that's smart. You basically before instead of sending them the consulting, you're just sending them straight here.
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah. And the other thing is like the product is the marketing in this where if I'm making YouTube videos and they want to buy my stuff, then they're going to know that I know how to make YouTube videos that make people want to buy stuff. So, they're going to want to book a call and work with me.
>> I think that's why this, the sales coaches, it works well. It works always.
>> That's why the viral coaches work well. It's a, yeah, selling the thing. Yeah. It's a, I mean, if you can make your marketing your product, it's always going to work well. Absolutely. Yeah. The sales page crashes.
>> How long, um, I'm assuming you just wrote and did all this. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I feel like you can pump these out pretty fast, right?
>> Yeah. And honestly, I had an ugly version and then I just ChatGPT like, so it's all on ClickFunnels and then I just ChatGPT like, "How do I make this look really good?" And it just built all this like this. They call this a black pill box right here, and like, uh, all the, like, all this, the little gold bar there. That's a Jotform embedded. Chat GPT was like, "Yeah, just copy this code here. Copy this." I would take a screenshot, send it to it. It was like, "Okay, put this thing there." And so ChatGPT essentially helped me build. And then what I was saying before is I would go back. I'll show you my, um, my avatar thing, but I would go back and forth and I would say, so this used to say, uh, "Get high-ticket clients from YouTube," right? So then I, I would go, "Get those people on the call," blah, blah, blah. I would go back and then slowly I would be, um, refining it more and more. So this is a document that we use, but it's like based on the transcripts of founders generating $100,000 to $500,000 a month plus. So, Avatar One is bottleneck authority. For people that just need, they they're tired of managing a team of editors and all this stuff.
>> Great avatar by the way.
>> Uh, the second, Oh, is that you on here? No. Okay. Thank you on there. Uh, the second one was scale architects. So these are people that need more sales-centric content. They're creating a lot of content right now, but it's not leading to sales. And then I have this anti-avatar, which is this is the red flag. These people want guarantees, short-term results on leads. Like, "I need 50 new leads next month," etc., etc. So now, even in my VSSL, like the last, like, I don't know, the last couple words that I say here.
>> Wow. You're only doing 3-minute VSSL?
>> Now, this is not for the short-term leader who treats content like a long-term slot machine. This is for the founder who's ready to build a permanent system. So, like, I'm now, I'm anti, I'm throwing out people that.
>> This is your, your V2 though, the VSSL?
>> Oh, this is like probably V12. Yeah. This this sales page is probably like.
>> But you don't want to do like a 10-minute VSSL, you think?
>> So, I, la, so funny story is on Friday of last week, I launched a 7-minute VSSL and I launched it and I was so desperate for booked calls because I hadn't been running ads in a little bit. Uh, and we hired a new salesperson. So I just launched new ads on a Friday in the middle of the day, which is like the worst thing to ever do with ads. But I launched it at, uh, two grand a day and I got no booked calls all the way through Monday. And I was like, "Okay, it could be a weekend thing, but like, I'm getting the same CTR, cost per click." So, I was like, "I think it's because the VSSL is long and it's, it was kind of like dense. It was kind of verbose. Like, the words were a little bit complicated." So, I went back into Gemini and I was like, "Okay, let's redo this. Let's make it shorter and stupid simple, but I still want to call out these people that are doing 5, 10 million a year, 20 million a year, but I want to make it so that they don't have to think too much when they're watching it."
>> Relaunch this new one, and now we're getting calls, $260 cost per booked calls. Um, and the other thing is that, so I, we didn't talk about this earlier, but I, when I originally launched this offer, I did it for $36,000 and we did it upfront. Our, our call to close rate was, meaning from booked to close, was 2.5%, which is pretty atrocious, honestly, on paid ads. It was, it was not profitable. So then I was figuring out what can I do to make this work? And I know in SaaS, they do, you do a trial, right? You test the product, and that's essentially product growth. So, in Q3, end of Q3 last year, I transitioned into offering a 7-day trial where they pay us $1,000 refundable deposit, and we will publish one YouTube video for them within 7 days. So, they can see how the video looks, how the voice is, how the editing, the scripting, all that stuff. See how little time it takes on their product, etc. So, the nice thing about that is once again, I don't have to work so hard on marketing now because now the product is really doing the selling. It's a $1,000 refundable deposit. If they don't want to work with us, they'll still publish the video and give them the $1,000 back. And so now I don't have to have this like, you know, what 20-minute VSSL taking them through the ups and downs and the story and whatever. I can just be like, "Here's what it is. Book a call if you want to learn more." You know what I mean? And now our book call to close is 16%.
>> Now, that's also including us. Now you can't book if you're doing, um, if you're doing less than 50k a month, you can't book as well. And the change in the messaging and a bunch of other stuff. So that's also. And, and when I first launched a trial, our trial ascension rate was 20%. Which our goal was 40%. Because I couldn't get, because I was, I was working with all these people that were doing 10 to 50k a month. Y.
>> But all the people that were doing 50k a month plus, our ascension rate was 40%. So I just immediately cut off everybody doing less than 50k a month.
>> Smart. See, bro, you're just, I think you're very good and quick at just putting something out there, testing it, and then improving. I, and that was going back to like, you know, taking risk and buying and like spending money. I just was spending so much money on ads so I could just buy all this data.
>> Because to me, if I can't scale an offer with ads, that I don't even want to scale it in the first place.
>> How much are you, like, let's say, okay, you launch this new funnel, back, back when it was V1, V2, whatever it was, how much did you start spending on ads first? Like, $500 a day or more?
>> Oh, like two or three grand a day.
>> Okay. You, you would go and see. Yeah.
>> Because I mean, because once again, like I said in the beginning, my original cost per call for scaling systems, the consulting was $500. So it was going to give me four calls a day, which like, that's not a whole lot of calls. You know what I mean? Like to try to test something out. So I was planning with that at two grand, I would be getting four to five calls a day. I could test it out. And honestly,
>> When I first launched this, even without the 7-day trial, we're getting $50, $100 calls. But once I started calling out, changing the marketing messaging, etc., etc., I started getting the, um, the ideal avatar. So we just even launched a bunch of ads the other day. If you do scaling systems, it's scaling W systems. So I even showed. So now the sales copy says, "Your sales team doesn't need more leads. They need believers." Right? The problem is in the lead source. So now, once again, I'm kind of not saying, "Get clients from YouTube, get clients from YouTube." I'm saying like, "Increase your conversion rates, clone yourself, your 24/7 YouTube conversion."
>> And this one's actually crushing things right now. Yeah. So, like, what's your ad process when you think about writing an ad?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Like, how did you come up with this?
>> Yeah. Honestly, Gemini and I. Pretty much take my ad, my worksheet I just showed you, my ideal avatar. I have my VSSL transcript. I have my sales transcript. So, I, I want all that messaging to be as congruent as humanly possible. And then I honestly just say, "Oh, oh, and I have my best performing ads on this offer so far." And I say, "Here's all of that. Best performing ads, blah, blah, blah." Right. For me, one angle at a time. Two, uh, video hooks, two video bodies, three primary text hooks, and three headlines. And then I'll just massage that into like something good. I have an Osmo gimbal pocket thing. Uh, and I got a little adapter to it where I can hold my phone to it right here. It's all, it's automatically on there. And then I just like literally look at that, say something, look at that, say something, and shoot. Yeah.
>> Exactly.
>> And I,
>> Damn, bro. Yeah.
>> I had an ad. Why are you saying damn?
>> Because Gemini, you're right. If you take all the sales script and the messaging of the prospects, especially if your closers are like, "What made you want to book a call today?" Like, "What did you see? What's your, you know, pain points? What are you going through?"
>> You're using their own words.
>> Exactly.
>> It's, it's, I, I will tell you, it is crazy how much it's increased our click-through rate and lowered our cost per acquisition. Like, like people are like, "Oh my god." And ours is even trickier because, dude, we're getting like, like I think I just told you, we're close to doing 70 million a year. Like, we're getting like enterprise level clients. So these aren't like, you know, like, "Oh, want to make 10 grand a month?" Like this is like people that are [ __ ] doing some serious numbers. And so you can't just use like whatever language you want. So this has been so just constantly going back and forth and it's not only pushing it up the funnel on the ad side, it's also that we're, I'm making sure all the messaging in the creative, the copy, the VSSL, the sales page, all that stuff is matching from top to funnel to bottom.
>> This is money.
>> And then I don't even do fancy edits. Short to the bottom. I just uploaded a script and I just do captions right there. Might be so many.
>> That's, that's my house, too, though. So, I actually like the nature background. I think it performs better.
>> Nature. Nature is actually good for business because it is a pattern.
>> Yeah. I sell you.
>> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
>> Robbie, thank you for coming on, my friend.
>> My pleasure, dude. Thanks for having me on.
>> We just, we spoke about a lot of stuff. Hopefully that's great sauce for you guys.
>> Yeah, that was good.
>> Nerding out with us and, uh, we'll see you guys on the next one.
>> Peace.