Transcription
Wow, man. Good to see you guys. Y'all doing all right?
Is this the same crowd that was with me in the morning? Oh, y'all the same. Was this mother? This is the little homie Marshall right there. Shout out Marshall. Hey, let's give it up for Marshall, man. Marshall in the house. Young soldier. How old is he?
10 years old, man. 10 years old and he's about to be a beast in the kingdom. All right. Textual corruption in the Islamic traditions. I'm gonna give you guys the greatest Islamophobic argument of all time. Absolutely. Every one of you guys, when you guys leave here, you guys are going to be the top most known Islamophobes in all of the UK. All right, that I can guarantee. Why? Because whenever you hear this, whenever you quote Al Quran or you quote the Sunna, meaning the Hadith, you are quoting Islamophobic material. Whenever you quote Muhammad, that's Islamophobic material. When you quote the words of Allah, those are Islamophobic material. When you quote the companions of Muhammad who loved the prophet, peace be upon him, that's Islamophobic material. You guys are going to be— I heard that. You guys are going to be quoting Islamophobic material. You guys excited about this?
All right, good. The Quran has been perfectly preserved right down to the letter, word for word, dot for dot, and all that good stuff. Right now, we all know who Dr. Jay Smith is, right? That's the OG, man. That's the OG. Now, he and Hatun TSH and others, man, they have pioneered some excellent work in bringing different Qurans to, uh, to Hyde Park to Speaker's Corner, you know. And it just me, my little self, before I was little guy logic, I was just fascinated. I was like, I want to do that. I want to do that, but I'm going to have to become an Islamophobe. And I prayed. I thought about it. And I said, you know what? I'm okay with this. I am okay with becoming an Islamophobe. I'm fine with it. And so what I started to do was I started to collect the Hadith. Now, what they do is they show you the different variant Qurans since they all say one. There's only one Quran ever, right? And so they show physical evidence like, look, we got multiple, 27 of them, 30 of them, Bodiam, all these different Qurans. But what's fascinating, ladies and gentlemen, is that it's not just the Qurans you can show them, but you can quote to them in their own sources that there are different Qurans even back then. And that is what I'm going to show you today. I did an entire week, me and my boy Life. We did a whole live stream week dedicated to this session not too long ago, just a couple weeks ago. And it was so fun. It was so fun. I was a bot. I was an Islamophobic bot. I was using the same stuff. I was on a God logic script. I know we have the Dawa script. I had a God logic script, y'all. And I stuck to it because it was undefeated. Okay. So, I'm gonna give you guys the same thing. How many of you guys know about the story about the first time the Quran was compiled into an actual manuscript? You guys know about this?
Good. We have an educated group. All right. Now, let me just test you this. And wife, not you. What is the Hadith that talks about this, guys? The first compilation of the Hadith by Abu Bakr. Does anybody know the Hadith?
That is excellent. That's a for sure Islamophobe back there. Ain't no way. No. Hey, look. Muslims don't know that, but Islamophobes, they know the Islamic sources. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. All right. So, we all are familiar with this. Sahih Bukhari 4986. Quite lengthy, but I'm just going to go ahead and, uh, take the relevant parts here. Now, I'm going to try to, hey, Alistair. Is it possible that I can expand this like it was when we first had it? 'Cause it's too small for me, Mike. All right, Alistair's not. So, here we have it. Sahih Bukhari, ladies and gentlemen, 4986. And it goes, we have Abu Bakr Assad sent for me. This is Zab speaking. Zab says, "Abu Bakr sent for me when the people of Yo Mama." Since they want to talk about mamas now, huh? Had been killed. Man, you guys, what a good sense of humor out there. That's good. The people at the, uh, of Yo Mama had been killed. Um, a number of people who fought against Musaylimah and found Umar ibn al-Khattab sitting with him. Right. Abu Bakr said to me, Umar has come to me and said, "Casualties were heavy among the Quran," i.e., those who knew the Quran by heart, "on the day of the battle of Yamamah. And I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra on the other battlefields. Here's the important part, ladies and gentlemen. Whereby a large part of Al-Quran may be lost." Now, this is, uh, I'm a thinking person, and usually us Islamophobes are. We like to think. We, uh, critically analyze things. Um, and so my question is, if the Quran is perfectly preserved, and it's perfectly preserved through the miracle of memory, why in the world were they afraid that the Quran could be lost if just a few people who memorized the Quran were dying off? Maybe it's because not everybody memorized it, y'all. But the Quran is supposed to be so simple, so easy. Everybody's reciting it. Everybody memorizes it. Correct? Then how could it be lost? See, the Muslims today will tell us it can't be lost. It's impossible. But the companions of Muhammad, the Sahaba, those who lived in the time, say, "Yeah, it can be lost. Let's do something about it. Let's do something about it because memory ain't all that great anymore." So what do they do? What do they do? Because memory, they can't rely on memory anymore because people are dying off. So what happens? Therefore, I suggest to you, Abu Bakr, that you order that the Quran be collected. I said to Umar, this is Abu Bakr talking. "How can you do something which Allah's Apostle did not do?" Hold on a second. Now, this is bid'ah. My Arabic speakers out there, any Arabic speakers out there? Father Mike, what is bid'ah? What does that mean? What is bid'ah?
Bid'ah means heresy. Heresy, innovation, bid'ah. You're making stuff up. You're doing stuff on your own. Right? So, according to Abu Bakr, Muhammad never did this. Why are you telling me to do something that the prophet himself never did? So, what does this tell us, ladies and gentlemen? Muhammad never, ever, ever, ever had a collected Quran in a book. Never. This happens after he dies. So, here's an interesting thing though, because won't Muslims come to you and say, "Hey, uh, Paul never met Jesus. How can he write about Jesus?" Did Jesus ever see your New Testament? Did Jesus was Jesus there looking over Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and what they wrote over the epistles of Paul, over the epistles of John? Were was he there double-checking? No, he wasn't. And so therefore, your book's corrupted. Case closed. Right? As long as you don't read our sources. Don't read our stuff. Okay? And, matter of fact, it was a mistake. Allah never told them to translate this. This wasn't supposed to hit the masses. So, we see Muhammad was never there to double-check this collected Quran that these mere men put together themselves by their own wisdom. Interesting stuff, isn't it? Let's keep going. I love the story. It's really good. It's a nice setup. Um, so Umar then goes on and says, "By Allah," now I imagine this. I'm a visual person. I believe he did this to Abu Bakr. He said, "By Allah, this here is a good deed." That's how I imagine him talking, you know. Um, I think they all talk like that. I've just seen it. Uh, Umar kept on urging me to accept this proposal till the idea which Umar had realized. Um, I'm sorry, did I read this wrong? Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest for it and I began to realize the good in the idea which Umar had realized. Then Abu Bakr said to me, so now Zayd is jumping in. "You are a wise young man and we do not have any suspicion about you and you used to write the divine inspiration for Allah's Messenger." So Zayd used to be one of Muhammad's scribes. It then goes on to say, "So you should search for the fragmentary scripts of the Quran and collect it in one book." Now I'm confused about this part too. Why do they have to search for it if they all memorized it? Why do they have to go get it? Don't they all just have it up there in their hearts? Don't they just recite it together? Why do they have to send Zayd to go get it? Now watch, watch what Zayd responds with. This is, this always kills me. Um, he says, "By Allah, if they had ordered me to shift one of the mountains, it would not have been heavier for me than this ordering me to collect the Quran." In other words, why me, man? Why? Why you got to send me to do? Now, here's another point. Notice this is not an easy task. The Quran is so spread out. It's so split up. Not everybody memorizes it. It's pieced up with different individuals that it is extremely difficult to collect the entire thing in one manuscript, in one book. Not everybody had it memorized. Not even everybody had the whole thing. Isn't that amazing? When we look at the Islamic sources, they tell us a completely different history than what the Muslims tell us today. The Muslims tell us that the Quran has always been the same, has always been a united front, never any difference. It's all been easy to understand, easy to know, easy to memorize, easy to, uh, to access. But Zayd says it would have been easier to move a mountain than to get the Quran all in one piece. Mashallah. I told you, man. I love the story. I'm telling you. Now, let's see what happens here. So, he gets convinced. Let's skip down a little bit. So, by Allah, this is a good project. He kept urging me, yada yada yada. Here it is. So I started looking for the Quran and collecting it from what it was written on palm stalks, thin white stones, and also from the men who knew it by heart. Wait, hold on. Also from the men who knew it by heart. So very clearly not everybody knew it by heart. There was a few. Till I found the last verse of the of Surah. Now, this is interesting with Abu, this guy Al-Ansari. And I did not, here it is, I did not find it with anybody other than him. Now, hold on a second. Now, Dr. J. Smith, you can cooperate this for me. Haven't you heard Muslims tell us that if Muslims are reciting the Quran in the masjid and one makes a mistake, then another Muslim can correct that Muslim? You've heard that before? That's correct. Okay. Nice. Got it from the doctor himself. This is what they would tell us. My question is, who would correct this guy if he got it wrong? He's the only one who knew who knew the verse. So, who would correct him? How do we know that his rendition of the verse was correct? See, I'm an Islamophobe, so I think I like to think about these things. This doesn't really make sense along with the narrative that I've been given. Does this make sense to y'all? Not really. Not really ringing the bell. Okay. So, yeah. Okay. We're on the same page. We're all the other folks. Good. So, this verse was only found with one person. So, there's no way to double-check whether this guy was correct. And guess what? Muhammad wasn't there either. Maybe there was a new messenger after Muhammad to double-check this. Maybe Abu Bakr or somebody. Who knows? Maybe Umar. Umar came up with three verses in the Quran. So, maybe he was there to, you know, make this work. So, let's see here. They quote the verse, yada yada yada. It says, "Then the complete manuscripts of the Quran remained with Abu Bakr till he died. Then with Umar till the end of his life, then with Hafsa, the daughter of Umar." So, question really quick. Did Muhammad ever, ever see this manuscript?
Marshall? No. Okay. Marshall says no. I believe Marshall. So no, it did. He never saw it. It did not happen. So then why is it that you, you know, in this recent 1B20, Kora, Kora the Explorer, she said that— Why are y'all laughing? How rude. Kora the Explorer said that the Hafsa manuscript that was passed down from Abu Bakr to Umar, then to Hafsa, Umar's daughter, that that used to be with Muhammad. That's what she said. Now, I imagine her response would be, "Okay, perfect." And then we get a non-response, mashallah. But this is the story here, ladies and gentlemen. So now we understand this first manuscript. We understand, uh, the first collection of this beautiful Quran, which I have never seen. I don't know if anybody else can see it. I think it might be in the same, uh, mountain cave that the might be found in. Who knows? But this is it. This is a lot of interesting details. See, when you look at this stuff carefully and in detail, start questioning these things, asking these questions. And these are questions guys bring to the Muslims. They will have no answer, but they will say words. Okay, I'm telling you, they know how to do that very well. They will say words, but they will have no answer, no real response. Okay. We all know about the burning incident, correct?
Yes. Oh, that's our favorite Hadith, ain't it? Them Qurans was burnt up, wasn't it? Listen, they was having a Quran barbecue, but they say David Wood's a problem. They was over there burning Qurans before David Wood existed. That's crazy to me. I mean, shoot, Uthman should have been stoned or whatever it was. But here's the interesting thing about this is that Uthman had a particular group of people that he had come up with this new type of manuscript that they had to, uh, create. We see the, here's the issue. Zayd ibn Thabit, again, he narrates. Says Abu Bakr sent for the, uh, sent for— Oh, sorry, this actually didn't translate. See, that was just a test. Okay. I was just making sure y'all was paying attention there. Okay. All right. So, did it do this twice? Huh? Looks like it. It looks okay. How do we get this twice? That's crazy. You see how Elbl works? Elbl always trying to mess up our flow, man. But he ain't going to stop nothing here. Him or Jabril. All right. It's okay. Uh, Lady Logic knows it by heart, so she could come in. Well, sweetheart, what was the— So, we have the Hadith. This is actually going to be the next Hadith, over 4987 in Sahih. The first one we're talking about is 4986. The next, second one is Sahih Bukhari 4987. Back to back to back. All right. Usually that's how sheikhs talk. Okay. So, with this being said, we have another problem occurs. Okay. Abu Bakr dies, Umar, he dies. And now Uthman is now the Caliph. He's the new ruler. And so what happens is is that there's some issues with reciting the Quran. And so one of the people, I forget the guy's name. See, if I had the Hadith, you know, Jel didn't delete it. Uh—
Thank you. Hudhayfah says, "Hey, Chief of the Believers, listen. We got a problem. We got these people that are differing in their recitation of the Quran. Save us before we differ about the book like the Jews and Christians before us." Now, let me get this straight. Muslims would tell us that recitations are just different modes, right? They're just different ways of saying the same thing, right, Dr. Jay? If these were just saying the same thing, but if I'm just saying tomato versus tomato, then how can this difference split us up like how Jews and Christians were split? That don't make sense to me. This must mean that these differences were so massive, were so, uh, influential that they can divide the religion, doctrinal issues, rulings, differences because of these different verses, but they're supposed to be all reading the same Quran, reciting the same Quran. So what does he do? He gets four people together. Zayd is one of them. A guy named Ash'am is another. There's two others that I don't remember their names. But here's the crazy thing about that. I'm going to show you guys why this is later. Why this is important later. There's a few people that, uh, Uthman left out of this. One of them was Ibn Mas'ud. You guys heard of Ibn Mas'ud before?
Ibn Mas'ud is very, very, very important. And we're going to get to this later, but Uthman has his own little committee, mostly family members of his, little nephews and little, you know, little homies, and, uh, people that listen to him and look up to him who he could tell what to do. And so he has them bring, they he asks for Hafsa's manuscript. "Let us make a perfect copy of this." She ends up sending the manuscript. Then they rewrite it. The Hadith says they rewrote it in perfect copies. Now, was Muhammad there for that? No, he wasn't. So, hold on a second. Who gave the authority, the divine prophetic authority to rewrite the Quran? But how don't they always say your Bible has been rewritten many, many times?
Don't they say that? It's in the Hadith. It says that they rewrote the Quran in perfect copies. Now, here's the thing. Who's judging if it's perfect or not? Uthman. Imagine if Paul did that, y'all. Imagine if Paul said, "Hey, everybody, give me your, give me your manuscript of Matthew. Give me Luke. Give me, give it all to me." And Timothy, I'm going to need you. I'm going to need Luke. Uh, Philo, I'm going to need you guys. Go ahead and write, rewrite Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John in perfect copies. And then all the copies that you guys have, burn them. Get rid of them. Imagine if Paul did that, y'all. We wouldn't be able to defend that. Yeah. Bible B, they Bible, they, they might have a point. Bible might be corrupted, man. Bible might be corrupted. But thankfully, we're Islamophobes and we don't have that information in our history, but they do. So we're going to use it and we're going to use the good, ain't we? We're going to use it good. Out. So Abu Bakr has them all burnt and he says, "Whether fragmentary copies or whole copies of the Quran be burnt, toasted. Put in the, put in the fire." Okay. All gone. So when I'm thinking of this, this is supposed to solve the issue. This was, this was Uthman's solution. Correct? This is how we're going to save the nation from differing about the book like the people from before. So when we look at the Hadith, we should see unity, right? We should see continuity. Is that correct? Inshallah, we'll see that. Let's see what we find. Ah, now this is a good one. This is a good one. Now, this guys is a Hadith that I love to talk about. Why? You'll see. Abu Hurayrah reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa, one of the companions of Muhammad, Al-Ash'ari, sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were 300 in number. They recited the Quran. Now, just a little point here. This is actually a little bit before Uthman's burning of the Quran and all that. This is actually after Abu Bakr. So, right in the middle, Umar was the leader at this time. Okay. And so right when Umar is the leader, Abu Bakr already made the manuscript. So we should all be good. There shouldn't be no different recitations. However, so this is what happens. So the people of Basra come and they recite the Quran to Abu Musa. They were 300 in number. And so this is what he said in response to them reciting the Quran. He says, "You are among," and this is how I imagine him talking, "You are among the best in the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. But bear in mind," now he gives them a warning. What is this warning? Watch this, guys. "That your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you." Hold on a second. Shouldn't reciting the Quran keep you humble? Shouldn't reciting of the Quran keep you confident? How can reciting the Quran for a long time harden your heart? Well, Abu Musa tells us, he gives us an example. He says, "We used to recite a Surah which resembled in length and severity to Surah Baqarah," which is another name for chapter 9. Does anybody know how long chapter 9 is? About 129 verses. So there used to be a chapter of the Quran that used to be at least 129 chap, uh, verses in this chapter. But what happened to it? Let's see. "I have, however, forgotten it." Look at all these Islamophobes laughing at this. This is crazy. "I have forgotten it. But he said, he continues, "With the exception of this which I remember out of it." So tell us what it is, Abu Musa. "If there were two valleys full of riches for the son of Adam, he would long for a third and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." Okay, so not all of it was lost. He still remembers the verse. This is what I want you guys to do for me. Can any of you guys put this wording in the internet and see if it pops up of any of your Qurans? It ain't there. This is gone. It does not exist. So, we're seeing that within their authentic Hadith. This is Sahih Muslim, by the way, y'all. Sahih Muslim, authentic. I know Sahih ain't so Sahih in 2026, but it's okay. Where's my folks? We're still going to use Sahih Hadith. According to Sahih Hadith, you have entire chapters of the Quran gone. And we're not just talking about little verses here and there. About 129 verses are gone, ladies and gentlemen. But they tell us that the Quran today is the exact same way back to Muhammad's time. According to who? Not Abu Musa. Abu Musa literally told you, "Hey, I forgot it." Except for this. And what does he say about this? He gives this as an example of reciting the Quran for a long time. Reciting the Quran for a long time causes you to forget. How, bro? I don't. Now, that I don't understand. But mashallah, I don't get that part. But he continues, 'cause this ain't it. He says, "And we used to recite a Surah which resembled one of the Surahs of Musabbihat." Now, Musabbihat Surahs were a group of, they, they categorize these chapters in the Quran that usually starts with "Glory to Allah" or something like that, right? So, giving honor to Allah. So, these are a category of chapters in the Quran. Okay? So, we used to recite a Surah which resembled one of the Surahs of Musabbihat. And I forgotten it. He did it again, y'all. He forgot it. But he remembers this much out of it. "O people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practice?" And that, and he says, "And that is recorded in your necks as a witness against you and you would be asked about it on the day of resurrection." Y'all know where this is? Nowhere. Entire chapters of the Quran forgotten, gone, poof. My bad. Gone, y'all. So this narrative here, like we can show you different Qurans. We can show you different Arabic Qurans. Hafs, Warsh, Kufi, Duri. We can show you all these. We can hand you and show you the differences in the existing Qurans today. But another unique thing we can do is go into the Islamic sources as Islamophobes and show you that even the companions, even your history says that your Quran is not the same as theirs. There are chapters that are gone, verses that are missing. Poof. Now, here's a good example of this, guys. Watch this. Watch this. Narrated Ibrahim. This is Sahih Bukhari 4944. The companions of Abdullah ibn Mas'ud came to Abu Darda. Before they arrived at his home. Now, remember Ibn Mas'ud, remember this name, okay? I told y'all he was important. Ibn Mas'ud. So Abu Darda came to the companions of Ibn Mas'ud, looked for them, he found them. Then he asked them, "Who among you can recite the Quran as Abdullah ibn Mas'ud recites it?" They replied, "All of us." He asked, "Who among you knows it by heart?" They pointed at Alqamah. So out of all the companions of Abdullah ibn Mas'ud who recites it the way he does, only one of them could do it by heart. There goes memorization again. Was not that reliable. But let's see how he goes, right? All right, let's see what happens here. Then he asked Alqamah, "How did you hear Abdullah ibn Mas'ud reciting Surah Al-Layl?" This is chapter 92:3 of the Quran, y'all. Chapter 2, chapter 92:3. How do you, how did you hear Ibn Mas'ud recite this? He goes, "He recited it by the male and the female." Abu Darda said, "I testified that I heard the Prophet reciting it likewise. This is exactly how I heard Muhammad recite it. But these people, these people," now if I was, I would have been, "What do you mean, you these people?" You know, I would have felt a little offended by that, but, you know, seventh century is a little different, I guess. Um, he goes, "But these people want me to recite it, quote, 'And by Him Who created the male and the female,' but by Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala, I will not follow them." This is interesting. This is very strong language because he doesn't just say, "Oh, okay. Yeah, you know, I like your version better." He swears by Allah he will not follow the way that these people are reciting it because what they're reciting is incorrect. Now, how does he know this? Because he appealed to Ibn Mas'ud. So he, now let's just think about this. Abu Darda, he said, "I heard the Prophet reciting it that way too." So Abu Darda, he learned from Muhammad himself. But what he needed was a second opinion. The opinion of Ibn Mas'ud, whom Muhammad says— Abdullah ibn Abdullah ibn Amar mentioned Abdullah Mas'ud said, "I shall ever—" No, this ain't it. Oh, yeah, here it is. "I shall ever love that man for I heard the Prophet saying." They're talking about Ibn Mas'ud. Why they love Ibn Mas'ud so much? "I shall ever love that man for I heard the Prophet saying, 'Take, i.e., learn the Quran from four.'" What's the first name that's up there? Abdullah ibn Mas'ud. So, Muhammad says if you want to learn the Quran, the first person he mentioned was take from Mas'ud. Ibn Mas'ud. He names others as well, which none of these four were in Uthman's little committee when he rewrote the Quran. They were all left out. Think about that. The people that the prophet said, "Take the Quran from," were left out of saving the people from differing about the Quran. Why? Because of Paul. Exactly. The Apostle Paul corrupted Uthman. Don't y'all see? You see clear as day. That's how important Ibn Mas'ud is. So going back to this, we have, we have Abu Darda swearing by Allah that he's not going to follow the people who are disagreeing with Ibn Mas'ud's rendition of the verse. Why? Because Ibn Mas'ud is one of the ones that Muhammad said, "Learn the Quran from these guys." And so then what do we see now? Let's look at the difference. How did Ibn Mas'ud recite it? He says, "By the male and the female." The other people, "By Him Who created the male and the female." Which way do you think is in the Quran today? Ibn Mas'ud's way or the wrong people's way? What do you think, Marshall? Ibn Mas'ud. Good guess. You know what? If I wasn't an Islamophobe, I would think that, you know what, it should be in Ibn Mas'ud's version, right? Because that's the correct way. But somebody look at this. Somebody take a look at this. It says, "And by Him Who hath created the male and the female, BY ALLAH, I won't follow this." By Allah, which means that I have to reject the Quran today because Ibn Mas'ud and his companions rejected the Quran today. Insane, isn't it? The person Muhammad said to learn the Quran from disagrees with the Quran today. They swore by Allah they won't do it this way, but somehow, someway, by Allah, it made it in the Quran. Ain't that something? Corruption. I think not. I think this is perfectly preserved. There's no reason to think otherwise, is it? One more example. But do you guys see how we can go inside of the sources? We can go inside of the Islamic sources and we can demonstrate that according to, according to early Islam, the Quran has been corrupted in their early tradition. Let's see here. We got to get the Mother of the Believers here. I, hey, I couldn't talk about this without bringing up Aisha.
Hey, justice for Aisha, man. She was such a scholar. I'm telling you, if it wasn't for Aisha, man, I probably wouldn't be an Islamophobe, but she gave us so much ammunition. Yeah. God bless her. Um, all right. So, Aisha, Sahih Muslim 1452. This is a, this is a good one. You guys heard of this before. Aisha, Allah be pleased with— See, I don't mind saying it here. Allah be pleased with her. Yes, be pleased with Aisha. She's an MVP. She reported that it had been revealed in the Holy Quran. It was in the Quran. Is that right? It says in the Quran, right? Okay. In the Quran that 10 clear sucklings make the marriage unlawful. Now, because we have kids in here, I will not go into detail on what that means, but, uh, yeah, beautiful Islam. Beautiful Islam. Then it was abrogated and substituted by five clear sucklings. And Allah's Apostle died and it was before that time found in the Holy Quran. Now, this is interesting. Aisha says that it was in the Quran, 10 clear sucklings that make a marriage unlawful. Then it got changed to five. So we see abrogation, right? We see the substitution from 10 to five. So we should see this in the Quran, right? Maybe not the 10. Let's say, okay, you know what? 10 abrogated, deleted, substituted. Maybe they got rid of that verse. No worries. I don't expect to see the 10. Where's the five? We should see the five clear sucklings in the Quran. Marshall, you think it's in the Quran? No, it's not. It don't exist. But they might say, "No, abrogation though. It was abrogated. They got Allah substitute. Allah didn't mean for that to be preserved." Unfortunately, Aisha says that Allah's Apostle died and it was before that time, before he died, it was in the Quran. Which means, guess what? Abrogation can't happen without the prophet unless one of these guys is a new prophet. Unless you want to say that. I'm cool with that. Let's go with that. Let's have fun there. But without the prophet, abrogation can't happen because abrogation is a divine revelation. This is Allah communicating that a verse is no longer applicable or a verse should not be in the Quran anymore or yada yada yada. That's divine revelation straight from Allah. So a mere man who's not a prophet cannot abrogate anything in the Quran. They cannot delete the verses of Allah. So with Muhammad dead, abrogation don't work. Matter of fact, this is what their scholars say. Their scholars say that without the prophet, abrogation cannot be. It has, if there's going to be abrogation, it has to be before he dies. Aisha says these verses were there when he died. They were still in the Quran and they were still being recited by the Muslims. So where are they? Where are these verses? They are probably in the middle pages, second paragraph of the Injil. Probably somewhere around there. Who knows? I don't know. I'm just guessing. Just throwing that out there. So, what does this tell us, guys? Missing verses, missing chapters, abrogation can't save you. Remember the chapters that Abu Musa forgot? That's after Muhammad's death. Those verses are gone. This is after Muhammad. So there's no excuse. The Quran has not been perfectly preserved letter for letter, word for word, even according to the earliest tradition of Islam. All right, I'm done, y'all. Cool. We done. That's it. Any questions? All right, we got a few. We're going to wait. We're going to wait till for the brother to pass the mic around.
So the Muslims say that, um, uh, regarding, uh, what do you call that, Abu Bakr's Quran, right? They, uh, I mentioned this when I was at Speaker's Corner. They say that, um, the question is, how do you explain that? Why did Uthman have to redo the compilation when Abu Bakr had done that? Um, what would you like? Would you want to comment more on that? Because that's something that's very important.
Yeah. What, uh, you're saying that they raise an objection or a reason?
Well, I mean, they can't really say much to that because why, why would it be necessary for Uthman to even recompile it?
Exactly. So here's that's a good point. So his point is, is that why in the world would he have to recompile the Quran if it was already compiled by Abu Bakr, right? Why would he have to take it and rewrite it? Yeah, you're absolutely right. If, if they already compiled the Quran, which Abu Bakr did, they said, "Why are you going to ask me to do something this difficult?" They already compiled the Quran before Uthman was leader. So they didn't need to recompile it. All they had to do is just send out those copies, I guess. So then why rewrite in perfect copies and then have everything else burned and say, "Yeah, follow this now." It's a good question. These are holes in the narrative. Yeah.
Hello everyone. Thank you very much for the presentation. Praise God. Of course. Um, so about nine years ago, Voddie Baucham did a debate with Shabir Ally titled, "Is the Quran Trustworthy?" And admittedly, it's quite hazy in my mind. It's like I watched it about, like, two years ago, but I remember Shabir basically, Voddie kept, maybe if Voddie is here, maybe he can comment more about it. But, uh, basically from what, yeah, so from what I recall, basically Voddie kept, you know, he was bringing up most, if not the exact same Hadiths that you were bringing up, obviously, you know, sound argumentation. And, you know, Shabir, he was kind of beating around the bush, but eventually he just said, "Oh, you know, my view on these Hadiths is that they've been abrogated and stuff." And he said, you know, he seemed to imply that quite a few other Muslim leaders, whoever they are, um, seem to agree with that view. Um, if you've heard that, I don't know if that's actually like a mainstream response that the Muslims give to these Hadiths and stuff, 'cause I'm sure like they do like have some kind of mainstream responses to the Christians who bring up these Hadiths. Yeah. Is abrogation one of them? If, if you know—
Yeah, abrogation is the, is the response they give. Remember I told you they say words, right? The only word they say is abrogation. Abrogation. Abrogation. The problem is is that contextually, abrogation cannot be without Muhammad. So if they're going to say these verses were abrogated, meaning they were intentionally substituted by Allah, they would have to show where Muhammad did this. Where does Muhammad say that this was abrogated? Where does Muhammad, where is Muhammad around to delete or get rid of or nullify these verses? They have to show that. They have to demonstrate that. We have examples where Muhammad, like for there's a, there were two people who memorized a verse and they, uh, this narration says that they woke up the next morning and they couldn't remember it. So they went to Muhammad about this issue and so Muhammad said, "Oh yeah, don't worry about it. It's just been abrogated." Right? So it's it's funny, but there's there's two things about this. One, look at the cop-out. Muhammad had no answers. Abrogation was the best thing ever. "Hey man, yeah, Allah just made you forget. That's all good. Allah made you forget, right?" But Muhammad had to be the one to tell them that. They can't just assume, "Oh, Allah made me forget." So this verse is gone now because that verse can very well still be, you know, legal or whatever. It can still be true, um, even though somebody forgot it. So forgetting something does not automatically mean abrogation. It has to be through Muhammad. That's number one. Number two is I forgot the second point I was gonna make. So thank you for your question.
Dialect.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
With the dialect.
Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Jay. So, yes. So, another objection that would bring up is, well, dialects, just different dialects. It's a dialect issue, right? They're they're saying the same thing, but in just a different way of saying the word. That's all. Here's the problem. So, there's a Hadith where Hisham and Umar were arguing over their Quran. Umar heard Hisham reciting the Quran and he was about to beat him up. But he said, "You know what? Let me let him finish. Let me maybe he'll get it together." But when he finished, he grabbed him by the collar and dragged him to Muhammad. Here's the thing. Um, and Hisham both spoke the same dialect. They were both from the same tribe of Quraish. So they can't say that dialect was the issue that made Umar just see red and attack Hisham because he heard difference in the Quran. It wasn't dialect. That was a real issue. They spoke the same dialect. That's number one. Number two, we see, uh, with Uthman's compilation, right? The differences in recitations were so bad that they can split the religion like the Jews and Christians were split about their book. So this can't be a dialect issue. This is doctrinal. This is ruling issues within their Qurans, right? And here's another thing. Uh, uh, you know, Uthman said, "If you guys disagree with the Quran, then just write it in the dialect of Quraish because that's the dialect that it was revealed." But I thought it was revealed in multiple dialects. Interesting.
In order to have dialectical differences in a written text, you need vowelizations. There were no vowels in the seventh century. So these could only have happened in the 8th and 9th century when Al-Bukhari was writing this down. It was a problem for him in the 9th century, redacted back to the 7th century, which makes no sense.
Yes, sir. Dr. Jay.
Yes, sir.
Have you come across Muslims who believe that all the Hadiths are false and just the Quran is true? Quran only.
How, how do you get around that?
Yeah, sure. So, what you want to do with a Quran-only Muslim is you present them two Qurans and ask them which one. Which one? 'Cause I'm Quran-only. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure a bunch of this congregation are original Quran-only Christians, right? Is that right? That's right. Yeah. Let me hear y'all. For those of y'all who don't know what that is, these are Christians who believe in the original Quran before it got corrupted. Before it got corrupted. You know, the original Quran used to affirm the Gospel. It used to affirm the crucifixion. It affirmed the Trinity. It literally said, it literally said, "Jesus said, 'I am God. Worship me.'" But it got corrupted by Uthman. And so, unfortunately, it's lost. We can see a little bit of the truth in the Qurans today, like where it says, uh, that the Quran came confirming the Torah and Gospel. Stand on the Torah and Gospel. Jesus, the word of Allah, you know, but when it says, "Don't say three," that part's a corruption. Um, but yeah, that's what you do with a Quran-only. Give them multiple Qurans and ask them which one. 'Cause I want to be Quran-only too. So, which Quran-only should I follow? That'll be fun. Yes, sir. Father Mike, or actually, he has the mic. Sorry.
Thank you.
Yes. Thanks.
What up, Kingston?
Yeah, man. Um, brilliant speech. Thank you very much. Um, I just wanted to explore your thoughts on, as you can imagine, most, um, you know, Muslims are conceding, um, they're saying it's like it's now 97% textually like preserved, right? So I just wanted to, um, explore your thoughts when a Muslim says, "Actually, you're right, it's only 97% um, preserved textually. Um, so, um, your book is not corrupted, our books is, you know, is what we have. So, let's compete in good deeds, right? To each prescribed a new law, right?
You know, to the Jews, the Torah, to the Christians, the, uh, Injil, and to us, the Quran, wherever we've got. So, on the day of resurrection, we'll know where we used to differ. So, how would you respond to when that is the end, the stalemate?
Sure. So if a Muslim concedes and says, "Yeah, okay, but let's just each follow our own books." Um, then I, you can go in different areas with that particular Muslim. Now, you might ask that Muslim, "Okay, then so since you see that there's actually corruption in your Quran, why do you believe Islam is true? What makes you trust Islam? Why do you trust this religion? Why do you trust Muhammad as a prophet?" And then go take, carry on the conversation that way. You know, um, you could take it in a way that, "Okay, let's say we do that. Let's say we, I adhere to my book, you adhere to yours, the Jews adhere to adhere to theirs. If I were to adhere to my book, then I have to judge your book as false. So, how do I get around that? How do we reconcile that? Because it doesn't seem possible." And take that conversation that way because then you're breaking down Islam. I mean, you got that first barrier down of preservation. Now you're going to break down the theological consistencies within the Quran itself and Islamic theology, and, uh, that's a good, that's a good place to, with that person, they're on their way to Christ, you know. So.
Hi. Um, the other thing to bear in mind is that there are narrations where Uthman is, uh, quoted as saying that even after he saw the compilation, there were still mistakes in the text and he basically said, "Leave them in there because they don't make what is haram, halal, and what is halal, haram." Afterwards. So even after he compiled the text, he looks at the text and he's saying, "There's still mistakes in this thing." So it, whatever he did didn't resolve all of the issues.
Clearly, clearly didn't resolve all of the issues. I mean, look, guys, there, there's a narration where Ibn Mas'ud says, "Hide your Qurans, hide your husbands, hide your wives, hide your kids, and hide your Qurans." He says, "Conceal them and keep them and take them to paradise with you on the day of resurrection." That's what he says. He says Zayd ibn Thabit, the one who was used by Uthman to, you know, collect the Quran and write it and scribe and all that kind of stuff. He says he was in his, uh, let me use appropriate language. He was in his father's loins. He was just a thought, um, while, uh, while Ibn Mas'ud was reciting the Quran and came to Islam. He was, he was, he wasn't even born yet. So how can you take him over me? Ibn Mas'ud did not agree with this idea. He had a huge problem with this. A lot of conflict.
One more quick thing also. Is it my imagination or after the Uthmanic recension when they burnt all the other manuscripts, in theory, that should have destroyed at least six of the seven Ahruf?
Yeah. Here's the interesting thing. Like, there's confusion about because they don't know what the Ahruf are. And there are actually some that believe that yes, some did get, uh, burned during the, um, Uthmanic, um, what do you call that?
Rescension. Yes. I like to call it campfire. So during the Uthmanic campfire, there's there are some scholars that say that the six Ahruf were dealt burned away.
They don't know what those are. Which means somewhere else.
It came from somewhere else, man. Came from Paul, dude.
Yeah, you guys don't get it.
What's up, Tiger?
Yeah. Um, I wanted to know whether this is authentic. Um, on the narrative of burning and Hafsa getting her copy back, isn't it said that Hafsa's copy was then taken by Uthman's cousin and then burned after she died because of the differences between hers and Uthman's?
I don't know. I never heard that before. Dr. Jay, have you heard that before?
It's Da'if.
It's Da'if.
I was wondering if you could just flip through the slides again for a couple of seconds so I could take pictures.
Sure.
If that's all right.
Yeah. Okay. You want me just— You want me to just go through them gradually?
Okay. Um, question. Well, actually that's the same one. Sorry. Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you.
So, guy, yeah, all of this is going to be on the website on Fander Fanderenter.org. So, you guys can get the slides, the notes there. That's good stuff.
Here's another question. Hi Avery, thank you very much for the talk. Um, of course, how do you respond to people who claim that the Abiima Alinsari who had the last verse of Surah Toba had a witness equal to two?
Sorry. So, how do I respond? Yeah. So, you mentioned that the last verse of Surah Toba was found with Oh, Abi Kuza Alinsari. Yeah. Muslims claim um which I disagree with by the way, but Muslims claim that this Kuza had the witness of two. Is that the witness of two? Yeah. The witness of two. So a witness equal to two people because they tried to claim that like cuz remember before you were saying that they found one verse with one person. Yeah. But they claimed that this person had a witness equal to two because in Uman's uh reension the last or a missing verse of Sorah Alazab was found with Kuzbin Tab alsari who had a witness of two. So they claim that they're the same person which I disagree with. But my my my what I've seen when I'm debating with Muslims is what they'll bring up this point and say that this kai this kusima had a witness of too to try to counteract that it was just one person basically who had uh this missing verse.
What what would be their evidence for that? Um there is there is an evidence there is although I I'd refute it the evidence would be based on 4987 and um the story of the bedin where Muhammad had a horse that he allegedly s bought from a bedin and this kuza um uh was actually a false witness cuz he claimed that um Muhammad did buy the horse when he wasn't actually with him and testified that he testified on his favor because he believes that he's a trustworthy person not because he was actually there and he witnessed But essentially what I'm saying is that in 4987 when you see the standardization you find that there was a Kuza who had a missing verse when they were transcribing the Quran and um and he had a witness equal to two and they try to say that that's the same Kuza who was a part of the the compilation 20 years before to try and get away from the uh the claims that we make that there was not two witnesses when Z collected the Quran.
So, so if I'm understanding this correctly, their argument is that Aul Lima was so trustworthy that his witness equaled two witnesses. That's correct. Yeah. Based on a hadith that um because he was trustworthy before. Yes. Although I would argue, Avery, it's because he's a Sahaba. That's why. And the Sahabas have double of anybody else's witness. So they go back to the Sahaba or the Tabune. Either the Sahaba or the Tabune have doubled the witness of anybody else because of the fact that he was a Sahaba. He was an eyewitness. It doubles his his testimony.
Okay. So, so, so interesting. So, he he's doubly trustworthy because he's a Sahaba. Um, and we're supposed to go, okay, yeah, that sounds good. That's that's how we're supposed to take it. Okay.
Yeah, this is interesting. I mean, e even if he even if he was like trustworthy to them, like he has the witness of two, that's still this this is my problem. I can't I can't just take that off of face value off of uh oh he was trustworthy before or he's a Sahaba so therefore he's doubly trustworthy so whatever he says about the Quran verse we can just take it because if that was the case then would you do the same thing for us with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John? Would you do the same thing with Paul? No. Oh, they have to meet them. They have to do you know they they're they're hyper skeptical about these things. So what I would hold the Muslim to is because if they brought that up to me, I would have a fun time with that and be like, "Oh, okay. So you you trust the disciples then too, you know, and show that same methodology, see if they're consistent." If they're not consistent, then that shows that that methodology doesn't work. They're just saying that just to say words here to fill up whatever hole this is right here. That just it doesn't work. This is one guy. You say he's trustworthy. You say Muhammad trusted him before. That's fine. Muhammad ain't here to trust him this time. You know that's interesting.
I is always it's always good to hear from you. Um 4987 from Bkari 4987 that wasn't here unfortunately. Um it says that Osman said to three Quri men in case you disagree with Z bin Sab and on any point in the Quran then write it in the dialect of Quraysh. The Quran was revealed to their tongue. Yeah. And looking to Z um bin, he is from the um tribe. Oh, he's not from Kuresh.
So is that is that we could we are actually the convolation of the Quran. Is it kind of a discrimination against all the Arab or is is it actually on a tribal selection or is it actually according to God? Yeah, that's a good question. Father Michael over here cooking. So, so Z Benav was from a different tribe with a different dialect and it looks like they prioritized the Cureshi dialect. And so is this is this, you know, revelation or compilation of the Quran is it of divine origin or is it tribal superiority? That is a good question. I might ask that on my next live stream, man. That's good.
Hey. Hi. By the way, I uh I often refer to uh Uman's campaign as a campaign of suppression. Yeah. Nice. Um so you've done a a very nice job, I think, of kind of demonstrating that there are things that were in the original Quran that are not present in the Quran that we have today. That there are things that are possibly different from what was for example given to Mass Masud and so forth. So I guess my question is on a completely unrelated note of course um if I were to give you a glass of water uh and I told you that this water is completely pure except that there is one drop of urine in it. Would you drink that water? I wouldn't. Yeah. Some of the Muslim probably be a good choice if it's camel. You get the reference.
Okay. Guys, can we give a massive warm applause for Avery Gio? Thank you, Alistister.