Cultivating Joy and Wonder: Herbal Wisdom and the Science of Feeling Good with Taryn Forrelli

Welcome to the Virtual Herbalism Conference. I'm your host, Lindsey Feldpausch. In this session, we are welcoming Dr. Taryn Forrelli. Taryn is a naturopathic physician and the Chief Science Officer at Traditional Medicinals, where she leads innovation, research, and development, and the quality teams who work to ensure every product reflects their uncompromising standards of efficacy, ethical sourcing, and sustainability. Taryn brings a deep understanding of how the chemistry of plants can support our physiology, our mood, and our sense of well-being.

In this conversation, Cultivating Joy and Wonder: Herbal wisdom and the Science of Feeling Good, we'll explore the intersection of emotions and science, how certain herbs, daily rituals, and cultivated experiences can spark joy, elevate mood, and remind us of our connection to the natural world. Together, we'll look at the heart-based herbal practices that help us feel more joy and wonder through the plants that we love. Welcome, Taryn. We're so glad to have joining us for this conference once again.

Thank you, Lindsey. I am so excited to talk about one of my favorite topics. I always love to talk about plants in general, but when the focus is joy, I mean, I can't help but feel joyful. So yes, here with joy today.

And wonder, Taryn.

And wonder, yes. Wonder, wonder. Inviting in wonder. I think we all need more joy and wonder in our lives these days, Taryn, so I'm super excited for you to share about the plants that can help cultivate this and the science behind it. Let's start off by talking about wonder and what herbs immediately pop into your teacup when you think about cultivating wonder.

Great. Well, I want to start by just defining wonder a little bit. I think it's one of those words that maybe we say, "Oh, it's wonderful." Or we talk about wonder as a sense of curiosity, which it is. But wonder is actually almost like a state of mind, and it requires openness, curiosity, and deep attention to something mysterious, right? And it's also relational. So it doesn't just happen without us going inward and thinking about our relationship to something else.

Now, nature is just a wonderful place to experience wonder because all around us there's these mysterious things that we can engage in. But it does require, again, a sense of presence. We have to be present. We have to be open. And then really, because it's internal, it often comes from sensory engagement. And so when I think of the herbs that are most wonder-inspiring or that trigger wonder, it's the ones that have those really strong sensory characteristics.

So colorful herbs are ones that are like, "Oh, yes, hibiscus," really with its deep ruby red color. One that has been on my mind and in my cup a lot lately is butterfly pea flower because it's actually part of Traditional Medicinal's new Rosy Mood formulation that we recently launched as part of our 50th anniversary. And as you can imagine from the name, it's very much designed to create an uplifted rosy mood. And the color part of it, that like, "Wow," it goes from almost green to blue to this purple color. I mean, that's just such a fun little journey to go on. Again, in your tea cup, you start to think about the fact that the plants do make these colors, these pigments. And why do those colors exist? And that's actually part of how plants communicate with their environment. So color definitely is part of those colorful herbs of wonder for me.

Another piece, obviously, is scent. When you smell something that is like, "Wow," goes right into your olfactory system, into your brain, wakes you up and is like, "Wow, what is that scent?" Oftentimes can trigger memories. Some of those stronger ones or most memorable ones are things like cinnamon. I think the citrus family, like lemon verbena. You smell those citrus oils, and it just, it really starts to evoke wonder. You start to wonder where those plants got all those signals. What does that mean for them? And what does that mean for us?

And then the last category, I would say, of sensory characteristics that really create that sense of wonder are really the sweet type herbs. So licorice, which can be a little too sweet for some people. But the fact that you can get these sweet flavor profiles, even stevia, which, again, can be polarizing, but in the right amount, it provides that sweetness that we know, like sweetness is a part of the sweetness of life. And so I find that really interesting that the plants can deliver sweetness without necessarily using glucose or sugar. So just a small example. All herbs, I think in their own right, have wonders about them. But those are some that come to mind.

Taryn, I got a sneak peek of your tea cup before we started. Will you share the color to highlight yours?

Absolutely. I hope you can see it, but it is this magenta color. This is the Rosy Mood tea that I was talking about. And it actually does combine hibiscus with butterfly pea flower, hawthorn, cinnamon, a lot of these herbs I was just talking about, and a touch of stevia, and then damiana, which I want to talk about in our conversation as we get into the joy herbs, because that's a big part of it. The color in that teacup is absolutely making me feel a sense of wonder, and I cannot wait to have a cup of Rosy Mood myself.

Taryn, you already mentioned herbs for joy. If joy had a materia medica, what would your top three herbs for joy in this felt sense to evoke in the body?

Yeah. So When I think of evoking joy and the fact that we can feel it in our body, it centers for me around the heart, which we often talk about the heart chakra, and then also the solar plexus, or the third chakra. And those are the ones that are both associated with openness and connection and really where we feel that sense of joy. And the solar plexus being the place where we feel connected. I think a big part of joy is feeling connected to something else, to someone else, or even to yourself. And so those areas of the body, if you just physically feel into them, for me, is where I associate the herbs that I can feel in those areas of my body with that sense of that feeling of joy starting to bubble up.

So, so the ones that do that... Now, I mentioned damiana being something that is not only in Rosy Mood, but is one of my favorite herbs for creating that sense of openness and connection. And when I think about damiana just on its own and really feel into what damiana does in the body, it's very softening. I would say it's very softening. Oftentimes people associate damiana with being an aphrodisiac, which it is, but that's a little too narrow for what it does. It really is something that uplifts the mood, and it creates an overall sense of more, I would say, sensual awareness. And so that is warming in the body. It's like everything is really like your fire in your body is warmed up. And what that does, again, is invites connection. And one of the things, again, when we were thinking about Rosy Mood and what people need most in their lives, it's connection. It's social connection. That is a major determinant of our mental well-being, how connected you are. And so what do we need more? Let's have more social connection. Let's open up our hearts. Damiana is great for that.

Another one is rose. I think I might have failed to mention that rose is also in Rosy mood. Go figure. But rose, literally the scent of rose, if you really let yourself come into it, I believe, starts to just open up that heart. You can visualize it, you can feel it. And they've done studies, they've done research where the scent of Rose within minutes, literally It really changes your physiology. It relaxes your blood vessels. You literally are getting more openness in your heart. It lowers the cortisol. It lowers your heart rate. So, yeah, it's very powerful these things, rose. There's a reason why we have such a connection to it that is both physiological as well as that psychological or mental experience. Experience with rose.

And then one more that I wanted to highlight that isn't in Rosy Mood, but is one of my favorites, is lemon balm. Lemon Balm, in the summertime, take that lemon balm leaf and smell it, or again, with the tea, with lemon balm in the cup, there is that lightness that I feel. And it is very soothing to the digestive tract, again, that solar plexus area. But it has this sweet and calm and gentleness that very subtly just uplifts the mood and creates that felt sense of joy. Those are my top three with a lot of extra detail provided.

I think those are some really beautiful choices, Taryn. Thank you for sharing. I want to speak a little bit more about flavor. You already mentioned that sweet is a flavor that can invoke wonder in our body. If feeling good had a flavor wheel, what notes would we taste and what's the science behind this, the flavor and feel-good connection?

Sure. Floral is definitely up there. Those floral flavors, rose, lavender, chamomile, and the science behind that is what I was alluding to earlier, where it essentially has an immediate, almost, effect through the limbic system of our brain. We don't even really have to be consciously aware of those sense being in our environment because it's already programmed into our body to do these things. And these floral sense have a distinct calming effect on the nervous system through that limbic interaction. So that one definitely is up there.

Spice. Spice is something that I include in my feel good flavor wheel. And in part, it's because, again, it has this physiologic effect. So think about spicy peppers, cayenne, other, your favorite spicy pepper. It has a phytochemical in there called capsaicin. And that triggers not only that feeling of warmth in the body, but actually releases dopamine and endorphins. And so there's a reason why people oftentimes are adding more and more spice because it's a medicine for feeling good. So I feel like you got to include that. And even cinnamon and clove, nutmeg, all of those warming spices that we associate it with the fall and winter. And for people, it makes them feel, I think, really cozy and happy and evokes happy memories. So I include those in my spice category.

I mentioned citrus earlier. Definitely, I won't get into that. But the limonene is the compound within those citrus fruits like lemon, orange, and grapefruit that we know through some of the The research that's been done has a very, again, uplifting effect on the mood. So that's one that really I would put in that flavor wheel.

And the last one I'm going to throw out there is earthy. Because, well, when you nourish the microbiome with things like roasted dandelion, very earthy, burdock is another example of these earthy roots that work on, essentially, the gut flora. They help to nourish it. That makes us really feel grounded. I think feeling grounded and more calm in our bodies is really the place, again, where feeling good starts.

Taryn, I now want a feeling good flavor wheel that includes not only all the flavors that you have discussed, but also breaks down the phytochemistry that you've started to dive into. Can you explain the various ways that these phytochemicals are supporting our bodies through stress and mood chemistry?

Yeah. Well, every herb, every plant is very chemically complex. So while I may mention some plant compounds that are often best known for these effects, I want to just acknowledge from the start that it's often a multitude of chemistries within the plant. And there usually isn't just one way that a plant works to impact our body, our mood in this case. And so when I talk about some of the different pathways, we We can see the same herbs showing up in these pathways. So they're very, like I said, complex, and they are definitely not one single mechanism of action.

So one of the things, though, when you start to think about, well, how do herbs that make you feel good work, you're automatically going to go to things like your neurotransmitters that we associate with feeling good. So things like serotonin, dopamine, GABA, which is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain associated with a deep sense of calm. And what we see is that a lot of herbs that, again, are associated with uplifting the mood or impacting the mood, regulating stress, they work on these neurotransmitters systems, in some cases, through direct interaction. So GABA, again, that calming neurotransmitter, we see lemon balm, valerian, ashwagandha, chamomile. Those are the ones that are like. Yeah, of course, they're calming. And it's not surprising to see that they're interacting with GABA. With serotonin, St. John's wort is one of the ones that we see often being researched; but not just St. John's wort, turmeric is one that is, I think, sometimes overlooked in the mood category, but does have some really interesting effects on serotonin. Saffron is an herb that has really seen a lot of interesting research showing its effects on mood, and serotonin being one of those mechanisms. Even things like ginseng can affect serotonin and dopamine as well. So this is one pathway by which herbs work on those neurotransmitters.

I'll mention a couple of others. The regulation of the HPA or hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis, is really important. It's part of normalizing the stress response. And of course, adaptogens are the herbs that do that really well. So again, ginseng, ashwagandha, those things that we're also working on the neurotransmitters work on the HPA axis. And so, when cortisol is normalized, well, we see less imbalance in those other neurotransmitters that can affect our mood. So they all feed into each other and promote a a more stable and, I'd say, regulated emotional state.

Inflammation is actually something that can impact our neurotransmitters. So through an indirect, almost, effect on modulating inflammation. Things, again, like turmeric, lemon balm, even hibiscus and berries with those anthocyanins. We know those have really nice regulating effects on inflammation. And so, again, indirectly, they can help promote a healthy mood.

One area of research that's super fascinating is the connection between the gut and the brain. Well, there's so much to talk about there, but herbs that help to support a healthy gut, let's just say, also support a healthy mood. And so part of that is the fact that they work directly on the gut, and the gut has its own nervous system. It's entirely independent of our central nervous system. However, it is also very much connected. Oftentimes, people will throw out the interesting fact that 90 percent of the serotonin in the body is produced in the gut. However, that serotonin is not the same serotonin that goes into our brain. So, it's not like all your gut, all your chemistry around the serotonin in your brain comes from your gut. However, when the serotonin in the gut is, again, being produced in a way that is balanced and healthy, it communicates with the brain through what's called the vagus nerve, that you are safe, that you're feeling good, that everything is regulated, that you don't have to be stressed out. And so by supporting the health of the gut, you indirectly support the health of the mood. And there's lots of other mechanisms beyond just the vagus nerve, but that's a really interesting one.

Two other effects I just want to mention in terms of how herbs can support a healthy mood. One is affecting the endocannabinoid system, which is really fascinating. So literally, the bliss molecule in the body is called anandamide. And certain herbs, turmeric, hops, black pepper, even echinacea, have been shown to essentially help keep the anandamide in your body around longer. It's almost like helping to promote more bliss. I find that really interesting.

The last one I'll mention is effects on what's called brain-derived neurotropic factor or B-D-N-F. This is a very abundant protein in the brain that supports neuroplasticity. It helps our neurons grow, repair, form new connections, and higher levels of BDNF are associated with better mood, improved memory, just overall resilience, and let's just say cognitive flexibility. We know that chronic stress can suppress BDNF. Herbs that help to modulate stress, again, going back to those adaptogens, are going to help support healthy levels of BDNF. We also know that herbs, actually, mushroom, lion's mane, is one that can have a supportive effect on BDNF, and things like ashwagandha, bacopa, gotu kola, those herbs that we often associate it with brain health and being the neurotropic herbs we often see having an effect on BDNF.

So much happening. It's fun to dig into the science, and certainly we could probably spend a whole conversation on any one of these. But I come from a place of very deep, deep just respect and acknowledging that herbs are doing all these things for us at the same time. So yeah, very, very, very wise in their effects.

My takeaway, Taryn, it's like, no wonder we love herbs so much. So good to us. So you spoke about the gut-brain connection, and we know that this is huge in mood regulation. So can you dive into it a little bit more and share with us which herbs you reach for to support digestion and, in turn, elevate mood?

For sure. So just going a little deeper into how that connection works or even how we can nourish the gut, it's all about the microbiome. It is this ecosystem, essentially, of bacteria, mainly. But there's so many trillions, right? Trillions of, I think it's about six pounds of bacteria we carry around in our bodies. Wow. So much of health is about making sure that those populations are in a good place, and we have to feed them the things that really keep them healthy, that keep the balance, and that in turn impacts or determines the health of the lining of our gut.

So let's start with what the bacteria, the healthy bacteria, like to eat. Well, certainly fiber. That's a no-brainer. We know that they like fiber. But one of the things they also like, not we, but the scientists that have published papers have revealed is that some of these compounds, and particularly the polyphenol compounds in plants, they actually act like fiber for these microbes. They basically help them grow or create a healthy environment for them. In turn, those microbes create compounds that are called short-chain fatty acids. One of them is butyrate. That becomes the fuel or the nourishment for our gut cells, which are called enterocytes. When we consume polyphenol-rich herbs, some of them being like turmeric. Again, you keep hearing me mention these ones, but berries are another example that have been shown to actually have almost like a prebiotic effect for the microbiome. We start to see that it's having this stimulation of the microbiome in turn helps support, nourish the gut lining, which then helps to regulate inflammation in the body, which I talked about earlier, helps to create a sense of calm and keep your neurotransmitters in balance. So you start to see how all of these pathways are related. But by having a happy, healthy a regulated gut and a healthy flora, we essentially have this connection with the brain that makes us feel good. And so more and more we see that herbs that help to have an effect on the GI tract or the microbiome can in turn produce feel good effects.

I recently came across some research even showing that the ginseng, Korean ginseng, has some evidence showing that it can affect our microbiome. The ginsenosides get metabolized by the gut bacteria, and then they have, again, that effect that is promoting the health of the microbiome. Also, herbs that we know promote a healthy gut lining, slippery elm, marshmallow, licorice, those demulcent or mucilaginous type herbs, can play a role in nourishing the gut. Again, we don't necessarily associate them with mood benefits, but if you're thinking holistically about supporting an overall healthy mood and emotional balance, it's really helpful to think about starting in the gut, and those herbs can certainly be part of it.

I love the multifaceted approach, right? We have mucopolysaccharides supporting the gut lining. We have the polyphenols supporting the butyrate production, short-term fatty acids. The science is fascinating, and I love that herbs have so many variants to offer in this capacity. When I think about wonder and joy, I think about the capacity for creativity in our lives. I know that when I'm at my most stressed, that is lacking. But when I'm in my most joyful state, That feels so fruitful. So, Taryn, when you think about cultivating creativity and a creative mindset with herbs, how does this sense of creative joy spark from a scientific perspective with herbs?

Well, there's a part of the brain called the default mode network. And it is where actually, when it's active, it's where we're We're turning off the thinking about the outside world and maybe rumination and the things to do. And we're actually inward in that state of presence and attentiveness. And when I was talking earlier about wonder, it requires us to come into that state and activate our default mode network in the brain. And that is often where creativity stems from. So you may notice that when you are out in nature, I certainly notice that I get some of my favorite thoughts, my most creative ideas. And it's because we do have the ability, and not even we, but that environment, the exposure to the plants and all of the sense and all of the the experience, the full embodied experience of being in nature allows us to calm the rest of our thoughts that tend to occupy our brain and go inward. And then that's where we start to see creativity flow from.

So herbs that can help, I would say, us stimulate more creativity or the "flow state" is another, yeah, it's an actual, yeah, scientifically defined experience where we're really locked in, like my son likes to say these days, he's locked in. Well, I think of things like peppermint that are very invigorating, right? And you feel that rosemary is another one that can really awaken attentiveness. Holy basil. I definitely, those top three ones, in terms of that sense of invigration. And I believe they're all from the same plant family, so that's not that surprising. Lamiaceae. Those come to mind.

Herbs that help to shift consciousness, I would say, and invoke almost like a dream state. Those are things like mugwort, sage, lavender, passionflower. Passionflower often people associate with taking it nighttime, which it is wonderful, but daydreaming is also very wonderful for creativity. It can be really helpful to allow yourself to have interactions with these herbs, whether, again, it's out in nature or in your teacup as a way to consciously welcome a creative state of mind.

Creativity also does stem from, like I said, this calm state of mind. When you're stressed out or very tense, you're not likely to really tap into that creative mindset as easily. And so it holds that using herbs like adaptogens and nervines, things like skullcap, even, that can really help us calm will help to unlock creativity. And then the last category I do want to highlight because they have great utility are the herbs that have a little bit of the stimulant effect. Caffeine, theobromine, these methylxanthine alkaloids, they're called. Those are in things, of course, like coffee, but we can highlight cacao and guayusa, green tea or matcha, yerba mate. Those can be really helpful for focusing the energy. If you can bring the calm into it, if you start with the calm and then you add a little bit of these chemistries that really awaken the mind, that can be a really powerful combination as well.

Traditional Medicinals actually offers a couple of products that can be really helpful for folks that want to really get their creative juices flowing, so to speak, or at least create the physiology in their body that welcomes more of that creative mindset. And what's coming to mind is the Stress Ease line that we launched over the last two years. And within that line, we have four different products, two of which can really helpful here. One is Stress Ease: Focus, which has Korean ginseng in it. So that actually does have a little bit of a stimulating effect, even acutely or with the single use. And the other is Stress Ease: Calm that we just launched, that has ashwagandha in it. So you can use them throughout the day when you want a little bit more of a pick-me-up and you want to get into your zone or flow state. I think the Stress Ease: Focus can be really helpful for that. Then helping to create a regulated nervous system on the daily, the Stress Ease: Calm is really good for that as well.

I'm really a fan of Traditional Medicinal Stress Ease line, Taryn. I think it's so nice for folks who are in a stressed state to be able to just reach for a box of traditional medicinal tea and feel like they know that they're getting all the quality of the herbs found and the taste is always fantastic. Formulated by herbalists, so yes. Love it. A little apothecary on the grocery store shelf.

Taryn, you started to talk about the way that we can feel more creative just by being in nature. So let's talk a little bit more about nature therapy and the simply being in the presence of plants, how this can be a great way to feel good. What's the science behind this?

Yes. Well, first of all, as humans, we are genetically programmed to feel good in nature environments. E. O. Wilson was a famous biologist who coined the term biophilia, literally the love of living things. And that is this essentially innate, genetically determined affinity that human beings have for being in the natural world. And you don't have to consciously say, "I'm going to nature to feel good." It's just in the presence of nature, we start to feel good. And while being out in nature, or what the Japanese call forest bathing. Sometimes they'll do that with intention. There's a lot of research behind how just being in the forest lowers cortisol, again, lowers our heart rate. It's just a fascinating body of research. It's very effective.

But what I also find interesting is just little things like visual cues can start to impact our physiology as well. When we look at green, and I see that beautiful green plant behind you, surrounding ourselves with plants and having green in our environment actually helps to trigger our parasympathetic nervous system to go into that rest and digest state, which most of us need more of that. And that's where we do have a lower heart rate and blood pressure and cortisol and safety. It's a sense of safety. So even just looking at the colors in green being obviously the dominant color in nature is something that has an effect on us.

The next one, which I've referenced a couple of times in this conversation, is the olfactory experience that we get from being in nature. And what happens is these volatile organic compounds or VOCs, they're essentially the essential oils from the plants, are released into the air. As you're in nature walking or just being present, you're likely inhaling essentially the the aromatic compounds of the plants. Some of the more famous ones are like the pinine from pine and the limonene from citrus, but it's in all kinds of plants as well, camphor, camazulene, which is in yarrow and chamomile. But you think you're in this cloud of chemistries when you're in nature. And while those are the plant's defense compounds to help them be protected against things like insects, bacteria, fungi, et cetera, they actually do have an effect on our nervous system and can be very calming through some of the pathways that we talked about earlier, including our neurotransmitter pathways in the limbic system. So, yeah, just through that sense of smell in nature, we start to see our bodies get more regulated.

And also the sounds. When we hear the sound of rustling leaves, essentially nature's soundscape, the birds, the wind, the water, that is something that we see, again, starts to activate this default mode network in the brain. And that helps us come into this state of flow. And it's all part of this holistic experience that we have. There's actually a field of work called attentional restorative therapy or A-R-T, and it's focused on how do we create almost like a sense of soft fascination with nature? How do we quiet the parts of our brains that are associated with our to-dos and busy mind and allow wonder, creativity to flow. And ultimately, it allows us to feel more connected to something much bigger than ourselves. And that feeling can spark not just joy, but something really incredible awe. And when we experience awe, it's been shown through some recent research that We have an overall better quality of life, more happiness, more well-being. And so, yeah, I really invite people to just go out in nature, engage with the plants, allow yourself to be present, see what comes up, invite wonder, and you're most likely going to feel much better afterwards.

Taryn, I think you just described the feelings that made me an herbalist. Right? I can totally relate. Once you experience it, it creates this sense of gratitude, and you want to give back, you want to go deeper, and it becomes such a joy in itself to discover the world of plants and the ways that they are showing up for us and the ways that, again, we're connected to something that is so much bigger than we know.

All right. Well, let's get our listeners some fun explorative ways to get out in nature. Could you share some playful plant encounters or any favorite activities that you have with plants that you could share with the listeners?

Yes, I'm happy to. One of my favorite things to do is to collect select wild flowers in places where you're allowed to, and create little, I call them trail bouquets, along the path. And just allow yourself to create beauty, whatever calls to you. And it's really such a sweet practice that you start to create, you start to see the harmony between colors and sense, and you're building something. Anyway, that's just a simple one that when the wild flowers are out, a wildflower trail bouquet can be a real beautiful thing.

Foraging is something that really can create a sense of joy and connection because it requires mindfulness. If you're picking berries, which, who doesn't enjoy picking berries, eating some, enjoying that sweetness, it's on a warm summer day. If you get just the perfect berry, it's incredible. I think that's amazing, mood medicine right there. But even looking for mushrooms, acorns, whatever it is, if you're foraging something with intention, it helps to create that sense of focus, again, that helps to drown out those extraneous thoughts. So whatever that foraging activity is can be really a portal, let's just say, to play, enjoy.

And I would say the other one that I'm revealing myself, but I will oftentimes want to do pull-ups when I see a tree branch that's just perfect for that. And it, for me, brings up that opportunity to really physically engage with a tree. One of my favorite trees is the madrone tree that grows out here along the West Coast. It has these just smooth branches that... It's called the refrigerator tree, actually, because it's cool. And when you grab onto it, it's just even that sensual experience of feeling the smoothness of the tree, and then it is strong, and then you're getting strong. Anyway, climb do pull-ups, whatever, that can really bring back that childlike sense of wonder that, again, from that, more things can flow. I think we all need more play in our lives.

Taryn, do you combine breath or body work with herbs to create joy somatically?

Well, you certainly can, and it's a beautiful practice, especially if If you're doing a daily tea ritual, which I really invite people to try that as a way to connect deeper with a plant, but bring into their daily experience a connection moment with nature, which a cup of tea can be perfect for that. When you combine it with breathwork, remembering that breathing is one of the ways that we are just already in relationship with the plants, and give intention or bring intention to that exchange, that reciprocal exchange, I think it does help to deepen the sense of wonder and obviously create presence for us in those moments, whether you're sitting with a plant, sitting with your tea cup. I had the really wonderful opportunity to do some training and experiencing with Pam Montgomery, an herbalist in Vermont, who has a technique that she calls Green Breath, which is really about focused, intentional breathing with a plant spirit and really allows you to journey with it in very profound ways. So, yes, breathwork, whether it's just bringing yourself into your centeredness or using it in a more journey-like way can be really, really helpful.

I would also say that things like dance and singing are ways to invoke a somatic experience with plants. And we we're talking earlier about playful encounters with plants. Again, don't be afraid to dance with the plants when you're out in nature or sing with them or let that sound come through. Song emerges from a place of the heart. And so we can often tune both the third and fourth chakra, those areas of our body that are expressing connection and feeling joy by singing. So breath, dance, singing, those are all somatic practices that you can utilize to cultivate more joy.

Those are some really powerful connection points with plants for that, Taryn. I wonder if you could share herbs that you use in a social sense to cultivate joy through more connection and laughter with our human counterparts.

Yeah. Well, as I mentioned when we started off, human connection, social connection, is such a big part of feeling good. And that was really the inspiration for that Rosy Mood tea that we launched. And so damiana, that's an herb that comes from Mexico, Baja area, and it's long been used as something that helps to infuse love and joy and vitality. They've even infused it into things like mezcal to bring more play and joy into the experience. So yeah, damiana, I think, is one that can be a real social connecting herb. Rose because it does relax the nervous system. So we talked about those. But some other ones that surely are not surprising are things like cacao, also these heart openers that creates almost a sense of curiosity. You want to talk to people, you want to engage and see where you hold maybe a connection or there might be something there for you that is surprising and delightful. Then there's, of course, the herbs that, if folks experience a sense of social anxiety, herbs that can really relax the nervous system. The nervous system, the skullcap is one that works really well. Again, lemon balm or even chamomile. If that's something that you want to soften into the experience, call upon the nervines. Those can really be good friends for a social connection, too.

When we're working with herbs and mental health, there are some lines that need to be drawn in regards to mood shifting. Taryn, can you speak a little bit towards drug-herb interactions and mental health conditions and giving a good rule of thumb for beginners in regards to mood shifts?

Sure. I'm so glad you to asked about this because it is something to be aware of. It's also a pretty complex, I would say, individual thing to explore with a practitioner if you are on any type of mood-altering drugs. Let's just say that, as I explained, a lot of these herbs can work on the same pathways as some of the pharmaceuticals do. It's important that if you want to start incorporating herbs that you talk to, either an herbalist and or I would say really, probably both, you're prescribing a practitioner to explore the best way to do that.

But for folks that are not taking medication and want to start to see how herbs can impact their mood or emotional state, I would say start slowly. And generally, while there are herbs that can have, like I said, almost an immediate effect, and some of your nervines work that way, and certainly the herbs that have those strong sensory characteristics, when you're trying to shift almost like a balance of neurotransmitters over time, or you're trying to work on your gut, or really, let's just say, nourish your nervous system into a more balanced state, that's going to take some time. Committing to a routine of working with an herb, or, again, I mentioned the Stress Ease: Calm, a protocol of adaptogens, like any of those Stress Ease products. But that's something that really you want to do over a couple of months before you maybe notice in a significant way how your system is shifted. It's helpful to journal, I would say, as well during that time and just keep track of your energy and your mood and sleep. Sleep is such an important determinant of our emotional state. So, yeah, those things can really come into play and are a great place to start, like I said, with the gentle herbs, things that are going to open your heart and bring more ease to your day.

I think that gratitude and mindfulness are some really potent offerings for our listeners, Taryn. Before we go, I would love if you could please take a moment to tell where the audience can find you and the work that you are doing with Traditional Medicinals.

Yeah. Thanks, Lindsey. Certainly, traditionalmedicinals. com is a wealth of information, not just about our products, but also about herbalism, There's an herb library there. There's actually a new educational offering that we launched this past year called the Plant Wisdom Collective. It's free videos with Guido Mase and myself talking about herbalism, the roots of it, just inviting folks into the practice and education about some of the individual herbal allies. So I think folks might really enjoy that. And folks can also just go to their local TM, Traditional Medicinals retailer, and pick up a box of tea to take home, read about, and cultivate some joy with.

I love that, Taryn. I'm excited about the new educational offerings you all have at Traditional Medicinals, and I am so grateful for you and your time and your teachings today with us.

Thank you. It was a true joy to be here.