Transcription
So the count is now at 12 for the number of scientists that have either gone missing, died suspiciously, taken themselves out, just disappeared without any trace. We're up to 12 people now in this modern era. And a few of these people, it's it's kind of over the last few years, sort of 2022, 2024, most recently William Neil McCasten. This year, there's a couple of people, you know, Monica Justinto Razer. There's a bunch of names over the last few years, scientists that are involved in space technology going missing.
But what if I told you that back in the day at the height of the Cold War, all the way back in the 80s, back when Ronald Reagan launched an initiative called Star Wars, there were actually a whole bunch of scientists that had worked on this project that also died, too. And the body count for the scientists that were related to that program is way higher than anything we're looking at now because I'm hearing apparently 22 scientists that worked on the real life Star Wars for Ronald Reagan died mysteriously. A little bit sus.
All right, I'm going to break it down to you in this video. But you want to talk about, oh, there's 12 scientists missing. There have been 22 scientists that died specifically in the 80s the last time this happened. And it does seem like history continually repeats itself.
So during the height of the Cold War back in around 1983, President Ronald Reagan launched the Strategic Defense Initiative, nicknamed Star Wars, okay, the real Star Wars. And this was a program that was meant to protect the United States in the event of nuclear war. So here's a little bit of backstory about this defense initiative.
>> Here an artist projection. >> Can't lie, the beat sounded a little bit like a sound a little SD kid. Sound like blacked out with a phantom. No, I'll stop. Here, an artist projection of the president's vision. Banning into space, a layered defense to protect the country from nuclear devastation. US spy satellites would watch the world below, detect Soviet missiles blasting off, compute the position and speed of each missile, alert battle stations in space on Earth. The first response. Space-based kinetic energy weapons fire high-speed projectiles from hypervelocity guns. Intercepting enemy missiles as they are boosted through the atmosphere. Popped up into space. Earth-based nuclearpowered X-ray lasers fire their radioactive rays. Attack rays from land-based exter lasers are redirected by huge mirrors orbiting in space. Chemical lasers fire beams that burn through the shell of the on-rushing missile. Particle beam weapons with pulsing rays join the attack. Still over the atmosphere, the missile bus ejects its cargo. multiple nuclear warheads. As the remaining Soviet missiles now arc towards the US, groundbased projectiles are volied into space. Their giant steel ribs shatter the enemy weapons. The final minute, the surviving warheads enter the atmosphere above the United States, are attacked by laser equipped planes. Earthbased lasers and ABM rockets eliminate the last warheads. >> The administration's original claim for the strategic defense initiative was that it would be a perfect >> so rich basically not rich Nixon Ronald Reagan basically they launched the Star Wars. this was a real thing. And they basically wanted to be able to, you know, shoot down, they wanted to be able to use space lasers, kinetic energy to shoot down potential nuclear weapons from the Russians, from the Chinese, all that kind of thing. Okay.
Now, this was a big program and a lot of people worked on this. But what's crazy, okay, is that starting in 1982, 22 British scientists that were involved in this program would one by one mysteriously die. And the list of people who suspiciously lost their lives being involved in this program would eventually become known as the Maronei list. Okay.
So, I'm going to read you a long article um documenting everything that was going on with these Star Wars related deaths basically. So, this is a whole article. The original one uh isn't even available. There's a lot of stuff offline today. Twitter's not working. All that kind of thing. Um, but basically, this is from UFO evidence.org, the scientific study of UFO phenomenons and the search for extraterrestrial life. It says, "Who killed off the Star Wars scientists? Did 22 British SDI researchers really all check themselves out? 50-year-old Alistister Beckham was a successful British aerospace projects engineer. His specialtity was designing computer software for sophisticated naval defense systems. Like hundreds of other British scientists, he was working on a pilot program for America's strategic defense initiative, better known as Star Wars. And like at least 21 co of his colleagues, he died a bizarre and violent death."
I ain't even read the article and I'm already not believing the official story. Says, "Did 22 British SDI researchers really all check themselves out? 50-year-old Alistister Beckham um was a British aerospace engineer, very successful um designing computer software for sophisticated naval defense systems. Okay. And him and 21 of his colleagues died a bizarre and violent death. It was a lazy, sunny Sunday afternoon in August 1998. After driving his wife to work, Beckham walked through his garden to a musty backyard tool shed and sat down on a box next to the door. He wrapped bare wires around his chest attached to an electrical outlet and put a handkerchief in his mouth. Then he pulled the switch. With his death, Beckham's name was added to a growing list of British scientists who have died or disappeared under mysterious circumstances since 1982."
Already the way he went out, I'm not believing that whatsoever. Not a chance he did that to himself. Um, each were skilled experts in commu in computers. Each was working on a highly classified project for the American Star Wars program. None had any apparent motive for offing themselves. The British government contends that the deaths are all a matter of coincidence. And they wouldn't lie to you, would they? The British press blame stress. They were all so stressed by the Star Wars that they checked themselves out and it's still happening today. Give me a break. That is cap. Okay. Others allude to an ongoing fraud investigation involving the nation's leading defense contractor, but relatives left behind don't know what to think. There weren't any women involved. There weren't any men involved. We had a very good relationship, says Mary Beckham, Alistister's widow. We don't know why he did it. If he did it, and I don't believe that he did do it. He wouldn't go out to the shed. There had to be something super creepy.
The string of unexplained deaths can be traced back to March 1982 when Essex University computer science Dr. Keith Bowen died in a car wreck on his way home from a London social function. Authorities claim Bowden was drunk, but his wife and friends say otherwise. This Bowden 45 was a whiz with supercomputers and computerc controlled aircrafts. He was a co-founder of the department of computer sciences at Essex and had worked for one of the major Star Wars contractors in England. One night, Bowden's immaculately uh maintained rover careened across a four-lane highway and plunged off a bridge down an embankment into an abandoned railard, and he was found dead at the scene. During the inquest, people testified that Bowden's blood alcohol had exceeded the legal limit and he'd been driving too fast. His death was ruled as accidental, but his wife, Hillary Bowden, and her lawyer suspected a cover up. Friends that he'd supposedly spent the evening with denied Bowden had even been drinking, and there was the condition of his car. My solicitor instructed an accident specialist to examine the automobile. Miss Bowden explained somebody had taken the wheels off and put others on that were old and worn. At the inquest, this was not allowed to be brought up. Someone asked if the car was in a sound condition, and the answer was yes. Hillary, in a state of shock, never protested the published verdict. Yet she remains convinced that someone tampered with her husband car. It certainly looked like foul play, she maintains. Four years later, the British press finally added Bowden's case to its growing dossier. First, there appeared to be two interconnected deaths. Then six, then 12, then suddenly there were 22.
It sounds exactly like what's going on now. Says, "Take 37year-old David Sans, a senior scientist at Eoms working on a highly sensitive computer-controlled satellite radar system." In March 1987, Sans made a U-turn on his way to work and rammed his car into a brick wall of a vacant restaurant. His trunk was loaded full of gasoline cans and the car exploded on impact. Given the inongruities of the accident and the lack of a self-deion motive, the coroner refused to rule out the possibility of foul play. Meanwhile, information leaked to the press suggested Sans had been under a tremendous amount of emotional strain. Margaret Worth, S's mother-in-law, claims that these stories are totally inaccurate. When David died, it was a great mystery to us. She admits he was very successful. He was very confident. He had just pulled off a great coup for his company, and he was about to be greatly rewarded. He had a very bright future ahead of him. He was perfectly happy the week before this all happened. Like many of the bererieved, Worth is still at a loss for answers. One week we think he must have been got at, the next we think it couldn't be anything like that, she says.
But the wave of suspicious fatalities in the ultra secret world of sophisticated weaponry has not gone unnoticed by the United States government. Oh yeah. Are they noticing what's going on now? LA late last fall, the American Embassy in London publicly requested a full investigation by the British Ministry of Defense. Members of British Parliament, such as Labour MP Doug Hy, co-president of the Manufacturing, Science, and Finance Union, had been making similar requests for more than 2 years. The Thatcher government had refused to launch any sort of inquiry. How much more deaths before we get the government to give answers? The Pentagon refuses to comment on the deaths, too. However, according to Reagan administration sources, we cannot ignore it anymore. Actually, British and American intelligence agencies are on the situation. When the Sunday Times in London published the details of 12 mysterious deaths last September, sources at the American Embassy admitted being aware of at least 10 additional victims whose names had already been sent to Washington. The sources added the embassy had been monitoring reports of the mysterious deaths for 2 years. Sounds just like what's going on now. It's so creepy.
English intelligence has suffered several damaging spy scandals in the 20th century. The CIA may suspect the deaths are an indication of security leaks that Star Wars secrets are being sold to the Russians. Perhaps these scientists had been blackmailed in into supplying classified data to Moscow and could no longer live with themselves. That's a reach. One or more may have stumbled into an espionage ring and been silenced. As NBC News London correspondent Henry Champ put it, "In the world of espionage, there is a saying, twice is a coincidence, but three times is enemy action." What about 22 times? What about 12 times in the last few years? Enemy action.
I think I spoke to a couple of my friends about this. I'm going to keep it real. I'm going to keep going with the Aqua, but I've been speaking to some of my more switched on friends about this situation. People that couldn't possibly believe the alien narrative. And everybody says they think it's the Chinese. Everybody says they think it's a hostile government. Russians, Iranians, Chinese is the main people that people talk about. They say that the Chinese are taking out and murdering the space technologists. All right? So, don't I'm not thinking the aliens are beaming these guys up and probing them and all that kind of stuff. I think most likely it's the Chinese or the Russians or somewhere in between the Iranians. Maybe the North Koreans, who knows? But they're I think they're taking these people out.
Um, where SDI is concerned, a tremendous amount is at stake. In return for the Thatcher government's early support of the Star Wars program, the Reagan administration promised a number of extremely lucrative SDI contracts to the British defense industry. Hundreds of millions of US dollars. the struggling British economy at that time could little afford to lose. Britain traditionally has one of the finest defense industries in the world. Their annual overseas weapon sales amount to more than 250 billion. The publicity from a Star Wars spy scandal could have seriously cut into the profits. It would appear that only initial promises made to former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher hold the US from cutting its losses and pulling out. A high-ranking American source was quoted in the Sunday Times saying, "If this happened in Greece, Brazil, Spain, or Argentina, we'd be all over them like a glove."
The Thatcher government's PR problem was the scandal centered around Maronei Company Limited, Britain's largest electronics defense contractor. Seven Maronei Scientists are among the dead. Maronei, which employs 50,000 workers worldwide, was a subsidiary of Britain's General Electric Company at the time. GEC and managing director, Lord Weinsttock, launched his own internal investigation. Yet, the GEC and the Ministry of Defense still contend that the 22 deaths are coincidental. A Ministry of Defense spokesman said they found no evidence of any sinister links between them. Well, if you did, it would be embarrassing, wouldn't it? So, you'd never admit it.
Uh, it says, "However, an article in the British publication, The Independent claimed the incidence of selfdeion among Maronei scientists was twice the national average of mentally healthy individuals. Either Maronei was hiring abnormally unstable scientists or something was very, very wrong. Two deaths brought the issue to light in the fall of ' 86. Within weeks of each other, two London-based Maronei scientists were found dead 100 miles away. in Bristol. Both were involved in creating software for a huge computerized Star Wars simulator, the hub of Maronei's SDI program. Both had been working on the simulator just hours before their death. And like others, neither had any apparent reason to check out."
Vimol Dbby uh DJI was a 24year-old electronics graduate who worked at Maronei Underwater Systems in Croxley Green. In August 1986, his crumpled body was found lying on the pavement 240 ft below the Clifton Suspension Bridge in Bristol. An inquest was unable to determine whether um Dubai had been pulled off of the bridge or whether he'd been jumped or whether he had jumped. Um, there had been no witnesses and the verdict was left open. Yet authorities did their best to pin his death on self infliction. Um, police testified that Jajabai had been suffering from depression, something his family and friends flatly denied. Um, and he had absolutely no history of personal or emotional problems. Police claimed that the deceased had been drinking with a friend, Hayat Sha, shortly before his death, and a bottle of wine and two used paper cups had been found in his car. That's all the proof you need, isn't it, folks? It says, "Yet forensic tests were never done on the auto." Uh, and those who knew Vimal, including Char, said that he'd never taken a drink of alcohol in his life. What a sloppy, sloppy fake setup that they put together. Investigating journalists found discrepancies in other evidence. Police report noted puncture marks on his left buttock after his fall from the bridge, explains Tony Collins, who covered the story for Britain's Computer News magazine. Apparently, this was the reason his funeral was halted seconds before his cremation was to take place. Members of the family were told the body was to be taken away for a second postmortem to be done by a top home office pathologist. That's not normal. Then a few months later, police held a press conference and announced it hadn't been a puncture mark. After all, it was a wound caused by a bone fragment. Nothing to see here, folks. find it very difficult to reconcile the initial coroner's report with what the police were saying a few months later.
Uh, officials didn't fair any better with the second Bristol fatality. Police virtually tripped over themselves to come up with a motive for the apparent and unusually violent selfchecking out of Ashard Sharif. Sharief was a 26year-old computer analyst who worked on the Maronei Defense System headquarters in Stanmore Middle Sex. On October 28th, 1986, he allegedly drove to a public park not far from where Djabi had died. He tied one end of a nylon cord around a tree and the other around his neck. He then got back into his Audi 80 automatic, stepped on the gas, and sped off, decapitating himself. Are you kidding me? Maronei initially claimed that Sharief was only a junior employee and that he had nothing to do with Star Wars. Co-workers stated otherwise. At the time of his death, Sharief was apparently about to be promoted. Also, Ashard had reportedly worked for a time in Vamal um Dajib's section. The inquest determined that Sharief's death was a self things selfstarted thing. Um, investigating officers maintained that the man had done it because he had been jilted by an alleged I guess romance. Sharief was said to have been depressed over a broken romance, Tony Collins explains. But the woman police unofficially say was his lover contend she was only his land lady when he was working for British Aerospace in Bristol. She's married, has three children, and is deeply religious. The possibility of the two having an affair seems highly unlikely, especially since Sharief had a fiance in Pakistan. His family told me he was genuinely in love with her. Police suddenly switched stories. They begun to say Sharief had been deeply in love with the woman he was engaged to and that he had done this to himself because another woman was pressuring him to call off the marriage. Authorities claimed that he'd found a taped message in Sharief's car tantamount to a note letting them know what he was doing. On it, officer said he admitted to having an affair, thus bringing shame on his family. Family members who heard the tape said that it actually gave no indication as to why he might wanted to have might have wanted to do this. and his family was told by the coroner it was not in their best interest to attend the inquest. Uh cover up.
Um, it's also been almost impossible to get information about deaths that should be in the public domain. I've been given false names or incorrect spellings. I've not been told where inquests have taken place. It's been made very difficult for me to try and track down details of these cases. In the Sharief case, two facts stand out. Ashard had no history of depression and there was absolutely no reason for him to be in Bristol.
A widely held theory um among the establishment press is that the mysterious deaths are stress related accidents or personal decisions. Such theories might not be off the mark. Um, according to a high-ranking British government official, for the past year and a half, the Ministry of Defense has been secretly investigating Maronei on allegations of defense contract fraud, overcharging the government, bribing officials, and the extensive probe has apparently required most of the mod's investigative resources, conceivably reaching as far as the Maronei subcontractors and into MOD research facilities, such as the Royal Military College of Science and the Royal Air Force Research Center. Almost all of the dead scientists were associated with one or more of these establishments. If Maronei employees were being forced by management to perform or cover up illegal activities, it may be that the stress did indeed get to them. In America, there are considerable incentives for people to blow the whistle if they're being asked to perform illegal acts like ripping off the government. A confidential source in Parliament explains, "However, in this country, there have been perhaps 20 people who have blown the whistle, and none of them have ever worked." Again, they didn't receive any confirmation. Here, you don't get any recognition. You get threatened with prosecution under the Official Secrets Act. They can fire you. They can take away your home, get you blacklisted, maybe they'll kill you. It's an impossible position to be placed in. It's quite conceivable that these people could have hurt themselves because they felt terribly ashamed of what they've done or did someone do that to them. Um, for that matter, some of the accidents or self incidents could have been men who had taken bribes, bribes, but couldn't face the embarrassment of public disclosure. If Marone was systematic, systematically defrauding the government for millions of pounds each year, perhaps an employee stumbled upon incriminating evidence and had to be done away with. It would be easy enough to make it look like an accident. So that basically confir confirms it.
Now there's more. Consider the peculiar death of Peter Pipel. Found dead beneath his car in the garage of his Oxford cheer home. PEL 46 works for the Royal Military College of Science, a world authority on communications technology, electronic surveillance, and target detection. Pipel was an expert at using computers to process signals emitted by metals, and his work reportedly included testing titanium for its resistance to explosives. On the night of February the 22nd, 1987, he spent an enjoyable evening out with his wife Morin and their friends. And when they returned home, Moren went straight to bed, leaving Peter to put the car away. When Moren woke up the next morning, she discovered that Peter had not come to bed. She went looking for him. And when she reached the garage, she noticed the door was closed, but the car's engine was running. She found her husband lying on his back beneath the car, his mouth directly below the tailpipe. She pulled him into the open air, but he was already dead. Initially, Moren thought that her husband's death was an accident. She presumed he'd gotten under the car to investigate a knocking he'd heard driving home the night before and that he'd gotten stuck. But the light fixture in the garage was broken and Peter hadn't been carrying a flashlight. Police had their own suspicions. A constable the same height and weight as Peter uh found it impossible to crawl under the car when the garage door was closed. He found it impossible to close the door when he was under the car. Carbon deposits from inside the garage door show the engine had been running only a short period of time. Yet, Miss People had found the body almost 7 hours after she'd gone to bed. The coroner's inquest could not determine whether the death was a homicide, a suicide, or by accident. Damn it, I said it.
Um, according to Morin Pay, uh, Peter had no reason to do this. They had no marital or financial problems. Peter loved his job. He just got a big raise, and according to colleagues, he was exhibiting no signs of stress. We never may know what's killing these scientists, but everyone has a theory. The National Forum Foundation, a conservative Washington DC think tank, believes the deaths are the work of European-based left-wing terrorists, such as those who took credit for gunning down a West German bureaucrat who had negotiated the Star Wars contracts. The group also claims that the July 1986 bombing death of a research director from the Seaman's company, Paul's, a high-tech West German electronics firm. They have yet to take credit for any of the scientists. A more outrageous theory suggests that the Russians have developed an electromagnetic death ray. We've heard about those on the channel before, which they're driving um which they're using to drive the British scientists to hurt themselves. A supermarket tabloid contends the ultra thin waves emitted by the device interfere with a person's brain waves, causing violent mood shifts and including near fatal depression. Um the Soviets have apparently developed such a weapon. Why waste it on 22 British defense workers? I don't think that's a waste if they really want to get them secrets and get get these technologists out the way.
It says, "Were the scientists victims of a corrupt defense industry? Have they been espionage porns? Are the deaths nothing more than an extraordinary coincidence?" Guess the dossier of death. So this is all of the people. So auto accident. Professor Keith Bowden, 45, computer scientist, Essex University. In March 1982, his car plunged off a bridge into an abandoned railard. It was listed as an accidental death. Missing person. Some of these guys are missing just like Neil McCass. Neil McCassland. Um, Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Godley, 49 defense expert, head of work study unit at the Royal Military College of Science. Godly disappeared in 1983 April. His father bequeaths him more than $60,000 with the provisio that he claimed it be in 1987. He never showed up and is presumed dead. Shotgun blast. Roger Hill 49 radar designer and draftsman Maronei in March 1985. He allegedly used a shotgun on himself at the family home. Death leap. Jonathan Walsh, 29, digital communications expert assigned to British telecom secret Martam Heath research facility and GC Marone's parent firm. In November 1985, Walsh allegedly fell from his hotel room while working on a British telecom project in uh Abid Jan Abbijan, Ivory Coast Africa. He'd expressed a fear for his life. Verdict still in question. Oh, really? Another death leap. Vimal Dajibai 24 computer software engineer worked on guidance system for Tiger fish torpedo. Marone underwater systems in August 1986. His crumpled remains were found 240 ft below the Clifton suspension bridge and the death hasn't even been listed as a self decision. Decapitation. Ashad Sharief 26 computer analyst Marone Defense Systems in October 1986 in Bristol. He tied one end of a rope around a tree and the other around his neck and drove off in his car at high speed. That one's insane. Suffocation. Richard Puh, computer consultant for the MOD, Ministry of Defense. In January 1987, he was found dead, wrapped head to toe in rope that was tied four times around his neck. The coroner listed his death as an accidental sexual experiment gone left. Asphyxiation: John Britain, Ministry of Defense, tank batteries expert, Royal Military College of Science. In January 1987, he was found dead in a parked car in his garage. Engine still running. Accidental death verdict. Drug overdose. Victor Moore 46, design engineer, Marone Space Systems. In February 1987, he was found dead of a drug overdose. And that is listed as his own decision. asphixxiation. Peter Pipel, 46, scientist, Royal Military College of Science. In February 1989, he was found dead beneath his car, face near the tailpipe in the garage of his Oxford Sheer home. Death was due to carbon monoxide poisoning, although the test showed the engine had only been running a short time. Foul play has not been ruled out. Asphyxiation Edwin Skills, 43, engineer from Maronei. In February 1987, Skills was found dead in his car, victim of carbon monoxide poisoning. A hose led from the exhaust pipe, and his death was listed at his own cause. Auto accident. David Sands, satellite projects m manager. Eimums, a Marone sister company. Although up for promotion, in 1987, Sands drove a car filled with gasoline cans into the brick wall outside an abandoned cafe and he was killed accidentally. Foul play has not been ruled out. Auto accident. Stuart Gooding, age 23. Post-graduate research student from the Royal Military College of Science. In April 1987, he died in a mysterious car wreck in Cyprus while the college was holding military exercises on the island. Verdict: Accidental death. It was an accident. Another accident. Auto accident. George Countis, experienced systems analyst at British Polytechnic. In April 1987, Countis drowned after his BMW plunged into the Murzy River in Liverpool. His death was ruled as a misadventure. Just a little misadventure. Suffocation. Mark Weisner, a 24. Software engineer at the Ministry of Defense experimental station for combat aircraft. In April 97, Weisner was found dead in his home with a plastic bag over his head. At the inquest, his death was ruled as an accident due to a sexual experiment gone arai. These guys are freaky. They're freaked out on the Star Wars, right? Auto accident. Michael Baker, 22, digital communications expert. Pi defense systems. In 1987, Baker's BMW crashed through a road barrier, killing the driver. Verdict, misadventure again. Heart attack. Frank Jennings, 60, electronic weapons engineer for PI in June 1987. He allegedly dropped dead of a heart attack. No inquest was held. Death leap. Russell Smith, 23, lab technician at A atomic energy research establishment. In January 1988, Smith's mangled body was found halfway down a cliff in Cornwall. Verdict. That was his own decision. Asphyxiation. Trevor Knight, 52, computer engineer, Maronei Space and Defense System. March 1988. Knight was found dead in his car asphixxiated by fumes from a hose attached to the tailpipe. The death was ruled his own decision. Electrocution. John Ferry 60, assistant marketing director for Marone. In August 1988, Ferry was found dead in a company owned department. The stripped leads of an electrical cord in his mouth. Foul play was not ruled out. These are absolutely bizarre. Electrocus and Alistister Beckham 50 software engineer PI in August 1988. His lifeless body was found in the garden shed behind his house. Bare wires which ran to a live mane were wrapped around his chest. Now a note was found. Police have not ruled out foul play. Asphyxiation. Andrew Hall, 33, engineering manager, British Aerospace. In September 1988, Hall was found dead in his car asphixxiated by fumes from a hose that was attached to the tailpipe. Friend said he was wellliked and he had everything to live for, but the verdict was he did it to himself. And for some reason, there was a random picture of a UFO at the bottom of this document, just if it wasn't chilling enough.
22 people, and it's like back in the 80s, they probably didn't have the high-tech methods to take people out like they do now. So, they're out here plugging them into [ __ ] electrical cords, putting hose pipes from the back of their cars, laying them down next to the Give me a break. This is exactly what's going on now. It's exactly the same. It's been going on in the 80s is exactly what's going on now. And I think it is a hostile foreign government murdering scientists. I ain't going to say too much else. You heard what the You heard everything. All right, you can make up your own minds. I know you guys are smart. We see what's going on here. Okay, this is a giant international scandal and I tell you what, we were covering this before everyone else. This is going to be one of the biggest stories of this year and I think we're going to get to the bottom of it and it might be World War II. I'm not playing around. Okay, so let me know what you thought of that breakdown. Let me know what you thought of the last video that I did. And I will keep chasing these clowns until we actually have justice cuz this is just a bunch of nonsense. We can't allow this to happen. Anyway, I'll catch you guys in the next video. I'm out for now.