Ep. 306 | Shopping Addiction

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The Minimalists. Hello, Minimizers. Welcome to The Minimalists Podcast. We discuss what it means to live a meaningful life with less. My name is Joshua Fields Milburn, and I'm Ryan Nicodemus, and together we are The Minimalists.

Are you intrigued by simplifying but still struggle with the tug of consumerism? Do you find yourself constantly wanting to purchase new, better things? Are you addicted to shopping, buying, acquiring, obtaining, and consuming? Well, that's what we're going to talk about today. On this Minimal episode, we're going to talk about compulsive shopping addiction. And this week, on the Maximal episode, this Thursday, on the private podcast, we're going to talk about five ways to combat online shopping addiction. Also, Ryan, I'm not sure if you knew this, I didn't know this until recently, six different types of shopping and spending addictions. So we're going to dive deep into that. That's this Thursday over on Patreon.

Speaking of Patreon, one of our kind patrons, the the Simpletons over there, one of them has a question for us. Angela, what does she got for us, Ryan? "How can someone who struggles with shopping addiction find their way out of it?"

Well, let's talk about what shopping addiction is. I'm going to put a link to this Better Help article in the show notes. Actually, podcast Sean is going to do that. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I want to help people understand what is compulsive buying disorder? What is a shopping addiction? What makes you a compulsive buyer? Now, it starts off here, early in the article, saying, "Shopping is an everyday activity such as drinking, dancing, and eating." Now, I think you and I both disagree with that.

Oh, yeah, man. I mean, I can think of plenty of days where I have not spent any money. Right? I mean, we consume every day. That's true. Yes. Yeah. But, but, uh, but yeah, the, the purchasing something every single day. I, it would be interesting to see where they got that stat from, right? And so there's two types of shopping. Even they're sort of the window shopping. In fact, you'll find some compulsive shoppers, they go out and do shopping as an activity, even though they don't buy anything. That, that can be one part of it. But then there's this other side of it as well, where it's constantly consuming, bringing things in. It's that addiction side of things.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, let's talk about addiction for a second, because, uh, we did a podcast with Rich Roll. It was a live podcast in San Francisco, and I had asked the audience, I'm like, "Hey, raise your hand if you do not have an addiction in your life." Yeah. And not one person raised their hand. And I was, the way that I described it is, I was like, "Well, look, we're all addicted to something. Like, whether it's like oxygen or water or food. Like, we have to have it, and if we don't, we're going to be miserable, and we might die." But then Rich kind of corrected me and said, "Well, you know, addiction is something that you're doing over and over again that is having a negative effect on your life, and you can't, like, you just can't control the impulse."

That's right. So, so yeah. So when we say shopping addiction, this is what we're talking about, right? So that shopping. I, I, I love that distinction, right? Because shopping isn't inherently bad. I was at Target last week buying paper towels and toilet paper. Not a very big deal. It's not an activity that I'm really drawn to. It's not irresistible to me. In fact, in this Better Help article, which, by the way, they are not a sponsor of ours. I just found some, some value in this article. It talks about the three main features of compulsive buying. Number one is irresistible buying. And so you, it's funny, I was driving down here, my wife was dropping me off today, right? And we were dancing. So that was part of our everyday activity. We were just dancing in the car. I do eat every day. I do drink every day. I don't shop every day. We were driving through here, and in the neighborhood where our studio is right now, I saw, we saw this line of primarily women were lined up for this, I think the store is called Nicole Martin or Natalie Martin. I've never heard of it. It's a clothing store. Mmm. And they're lined up the block. Now, we used to see this all the time down on Fairfax, where people are buying sneakers or lined up for Supreme clothing. And to me, that is a surefire symptom. Not all these people are necessarily addicted to shopping, but it is a symptom of some sort of what? Irresistibility. So much so. Yeah. Gotta have it, right? Yeah, because they're not selling anything we actually need, right? These are all non-essentials. Yeah, they're like selling a, it's like a status signifier or a status signal. Yeah. Yeah. That's, wow, that's crazy. Yeah.

And so I'm looking at that line, and I have just a ton of compassion for these people, and I also empathize with them because there have been times where I've waited in line to to buy something that I didn't need. A little bit different than if you're waiting in line to buy, you know, paper towels or or something like that. But buying something that is, oh, a signifier of who I am as a person. Yeah. Isn't that like, it's funny because like when you start to unpack it, like it just is really weird to me that I'm not going to show you who I am. I'm going to let this brand show you who I am.

Approximate it for me. Yeah. Yeah. And so we, we rely on brands for two things. One is to provide us goods and services that we get value from. So just because I say something is a non-essential doesn't mean it's bad. In our last book, *Love People Use Things*, we've got these 16 rules for living with less. One of them is the No Junk Rule. And everything you own can fit in one of three piles: it's either essential, it's non-essential, or it's junk. Non-essential doesn't mean that it's bad. It simply means that it adds value to our lives, but I could live without it. But because minimalism isn't about living without everything, it's about curating the things that are useful to us, and sometimes even things that we find to be meaningful or that really augment or enhance a meaningful experience in our lives. That's what we're talking about. Unfortunately, we get misguided because, well, many of the things we think are going to fulfill us, complete us. That's what consumerism is. Consumerism is merely the ideology that buying things is going to make me happy or more complete. Yeah. And I saw that in that line right there. If we just consume this latest clothing drop, then I will be more complete, more whole, more significant. Yeah. I'll be that much closer to, yeah, feeling whole. That's it. I'll be that. And not even, not even, I'm going to get there. I'm going to be one step closer.

And so let's talk about these three attributes. You've got irresistible buying. And so, uh, you then from there, you have uncontrollable buying. So I think that first, it starts as, "Oh, you know what? I, I can't resist this." Now, that manifests in a bunch of different ways. Oh, it's on sale. Oh, it's a limited edition. Act now, supplies are limited. Oh, it's irresistible. Yeah. I can't resist it. Beyond that, you have uncontrollable buying. And here's what it says: "As mentioned earlier in this article, if you are affected by the above, there is a higher chance that you may eventually start buying things you do not need." I would just say, you might start buying things that are junk. Those are things that masquerade as value-adding, but they actually get in the way of the things that add value. Remember when you did your packing party, Ryan? You had all these this stuff in boxes. After 21 days, you realized, like, "Oh, these things that are boxed up now were actually getting in the way of the things that add value to my life." Yeah. That are essential or, or, or value-adding in some way. Yeah. Yeah.

Man, well, it blows my mind. Like, there's that stat in the talk that I'm giving on, on the road right now, of how we spend $1.2 trillion a year on non-essential goods. And I mean, a lot of those stats in the talk blow me away, but that one specifically is just, um, it just shows how, how much shopping addiction is rampant through at least the United States.

Well, there's one, uh, stat that you talk about in there that also blows me away. So 93% was it? 93% of teenagers, yeah, ran think, uh, shopping, yeah, as our number one favorite pastime. I think it's funny how shopping. There's even a question we have in the Maximal episode about, "Hey, shopping is one of my favorite pastimes." And I can't wait to talk about that because it blows me away that that's a pastime. Shopping, right? But of course, it is with the amount of consuming that we do. And so I do want to get to the root of that, and we'll do that here on the Minimal episode as well.

So let's, let's get back to Angela here and talk about the third feature of compulsive buying. We talked about uncontrollable buying, we talked about irresistible buying, but then it goes to the effects on quality of life. So it affects your quality of life. And that's what Rich Roll was talking to you about with addiction. Ultimately, it's an addiction when it gets in the way of your quality of life. Yes. Now, that steps up in a whole bunch of different ways. One is maybe it's just taking too much of your time, and you're not allocating the time to the things you actually wish you were allocating time to. I will tell you, as someone who was formerly addicted to shopping, I bought a lot of things, a lot of junk, a lot of non-essentials, or really junk that I thought were value-adding non-essentials. I brought a lot of things. I brought a lot of things. I spent a lot of time doing that, but also obsessing over it in my mind. If I make the right purchase, which pants do I want? What, you know, what am I going to do after work today? I'm going to go into, you know, this department store and try these things on and, you know, this necktie will complete me. This suit will complete me. Whatever it is. And realizing as soon as I got it, it does fill some sort of void in the moment, but it's a void that I created.

Yeah. Or, or worse, it's a, it's a void that an advertiser created. Yes. Yeah. And I allowed them to, to create in my life, right? And so it affects your quality of life. There are other ways it affects your quality of life: stress, anxiety, depression. People can spiral into depression. Also, we talked about this already, but debt. Yeah. Going into debt to buy things you don't need. Yeah. Is going to cause all those other emotions and then some. Yeah. Just for that little ephemeral happiness that you get when you purchase something new that doesn't last very, very long.

It blew my mind away in the, the talk, too, that I give. The stat of the average credit card debt is $166,000. Yeah. For indebted households. Dude, $166,000. That's crazy. Mmm. Like, that, I never would have guessed $166,000. That sounds made up to me. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Well, one in four, uh, I'm sorry, the average American has four credit cards. I think you say. And then I was one of the one in 10 Americans who had 10 or more active credit cards. Yeah. Banana Republic and Macy's and Diner's Club. I all of these. And you do it because, "Oh, I'd be stupid not to get the 10% off." And, and we, what we try to do is we try to play these mathematical, intellectual games. Mmm. In this emotional arena. The intellect never beats the emotion. Yeah. When it comes to impulse or compulsive buying, compulsive consuming, compulsive spending. Yeah.

And so when we're talking about shopping addiction, what we're really talking about is not shopping. Shopping is not inherently bad. No. Angela, what we're talking about. So you're struggling with shopping addiction. How do you find your way out? Another way to phrase that question is, "What, how do I stop my shopping addiction?" You know what Kapil Gupta would say? He would say, "You don't stop anything. You see through it."

And now, before we were recording this, Ryan, you were saying, "Hey, you know, I wish that, like, I still didn't have the impulse." Can you maybe expand on that a little bit?

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I, I still struggle with the, the impulse to buy anything, whether even as one of The Minimalists. Like, whether it's like an upgrade or, I don't know. I'll be in the checkout line, and there's like, you know, different flavors of gum. And I love me some different flavors of gum. I mean, it's just like, even small things like that. What a metaphor. Yeah. Or, um, you know, someone hit me up on Twitter because, you know, he heard me talking about Allen Edmonds, and he's like, "I got a pair of shoes for you." Like, "What size are you?" And I'm like, "Man, I don't know where I'd wear those." He's like, "Well, I wear mine every day." And I'm like, "Yes, you wear them every day, but I would not wear them every day." Right? But my impulse is to be like, "Well, it's a free pair of Allen Edmonds. Like, send them on over." Right? Um, so, yeah. I, yeah, I wish I could say that, you know, as soon as you listen to all our podcasts and read all our books and watch all our documentaries, you will never want to buy anything again, and you'll never have that impulse. Yes. Um, personally, like, I'm not there yet. Like, I absolutely have that impulse come, come up. And I, it's not about ignoring it. It's not about repressing it. It's not about, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's really about holding space for it. It's like looking at it and saying, "Hey, uh, this is a symptom. There, there's something that's arising within me, and I get to decide whether or not I act on that impulse."

I, I totally agree with that, and I think it makes total sense. And I think our dynamic works really well, right? Right now, especially with something like this, because you were in sort of one camp. There are many camps, but you were in one camp where you're saying, "Hey, I'm able to recognize this impulse for what it is." And I'm in a different camp where I finally got to a place where I see through the impulse. It doesn't make me a better consumer than you or anything like that, but it's as soon as we see through the thing and understand it for what it is, you, I think the illusion begins to dissipate. Yeah. And see that. And when I was driving past those ladies today on, I think it was on La Cienega, in front of that store, that Natalie Martin store, I didn't also have that impulse. In fact, I had a, a little bit of sorrow, not for them, but for the time that I myself wasted doing those activities when I could have been doing something more meaningful. So the reason that I had the impulse is because, in many ways, I didn't see through the impulse. I thought the impulse was the path to happiness. Yeah. It was the pursuit of happiness. It was the seeking of completeness, of, well, it turns out it was really pleasure.

And so, Angela, how does someone find their way out of it? Well, you, you examine the roots, yeah, of the impulse. What is behind this impulse? So let's talk about our impulses real quick, Ryan. Whenever I have an impulse to buy something, or whenever I had an impulse to buy something, it was usually because I felt some sort of emptiness, some sort of, well, I was incomplete in some way, and I thought that that thing that I wanted to buy was the ticket, sure, to satisfaction. Yeah. And here's the, the pernicious part. It actually is the ticket to satisfaction, which is really temporary. But it's not the same thing as fulfillment, like a deep fulfillment on a on a cellular level. Sure. Yeah. There is like a brief moment of pleasure that, even right now, like when I, you know, I had to get a new phone like a year ago, or however long ago, right? And like I was like, "Oh yeah, like unboxing it and taking it out." Like, there's this joy there, or not joy, I guess, is probably the wrong word. Pleasure. But there is this pleasure that comes from unboxing something new. Yes. And, uh, I don't perpetuate it. I don't sit there and be like, "Oh yeah, I need more of this." But it is again, that's another symptom that that I recognize. But, you know, I, I noticed when I was like going through the packing party, simplifying my life, spending less money, trying to get out of debt, trying to reclaim my time. I noticed that those impulses, they were arising based upon a lot of, not every single one of them, but a lot of them were arising because of the entertainment I was taking in, the conditioning. Yeah. So whether it was like, you know, commercials on TV. The one that I noticed the most was GQ Magazine, because, you know, if you want to be GQ, you got to read GQ Magazine. You want to be a gentleman. That's right. So, yeah, I just remember like, uh, looking at those magazines and realizing, like, "Oh, wow, like the, you know, the Tacker is that the watch brand? The Tacker brand?" Or the Tag? Yeah. Tag. Yeah. Or, um, you know, the Lexus or whatever it is. Like, I just was piecing it together. Like, "Oh, wow, like this magazine is what really is influencing a lot of these, a lot of these impulses." Not to mention comparison with others, or, um, trying to have, you know, some kind of status.

So I mean, with Angela, it's like, where, what are the triggers for those impulses? Um, is there a way to avoid those triggers? Of course, you're not going to avoid 100% of them. Like, you, I mean, living in LA is a great example. Like, it's, you, what do they say? You see 5,000 or 10,000 advertisements a day. And I bet you see double that in LA because of all the billboards and everything else. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, the, the question is, is like, how can you get rid of, take out, uh, these, these triggers in your life? That's, that's where I started personally. So like, yeah, I canceled the magazine subscriptions. I, you know, watch less TV. Whatever it was. Like, there were certain things that I did have, um, control over, or, or certain things in my life that I had influence over. Yeah. And if you, if you were to cut out some of those external influences, then you'll be less influenced by those externalities. There's, there's no question about that. And at the same time, if you start looking at the root and recognizing, like, "Oh, this is coming from somewhere. This feeling of inadequacy, of stress, of anxiety, of being incomplete, of, well, the need for chaos." This feeling is arising from somewhere. Let me figure out where this comes from. And then by looking at that and seeing it, the impulse begins to dissipate.

Here's, here's how I know. Whenever you're living a meaningful life, the people I know who live a meaningful life do not have a shopping addiction. The reason that people have a shopping addiction, you're not morally wrong or bad for having one, is we think it's a supplement for living more meaningfully.

We have a question here from Michelle in Phoenix, Arizona. "I opted for a minimal wardrobe, pretty much wear the same every day. I own five shirts and three pants, thinking that would last a year. And I'm finding out four months later, everything's starting to fade. So do you guys have any tips on keeping your closet minimal? Should I buy more clothing or just buy clothing more often?"

So it sounds to me like Michelle is talking about a capsule wardrobe in a way, Ryan. And I sort of have a capsule wardrobe, right? Yeah. You remember that guy, uh, we were just in Aspen for those listening. We were just in Aspen giving a talk at a conference. Uh-huh. And I told them how many shirts I had. And that guy saw me, saw us walking around. He came up to me and he was like, "I can't believe you have that many shirts." Right? And it's like, I think that's the wrong question to ask. How many shirts am I supposed to have? Right? How often am I supposed to buy things? I mean, these are, I guess they're reasonable questions, but really the question is, like, why is that number important to you? Why is the, you know, the timing of your buying, why is that important to you? Yeah. Um, so for, you know, Michelle here, uh, yeah, there's there's no perfect answer that I can give you. What I can say for myself is like, I will, uh, re-up my shirts about every like 12 to 16 months because they do fade. And I take the faded ones and I put them in the donation box and I let, you know, the donation warehouse like sorted out, right? Yeah. And, and so I think the thing to think about here is, what is appropriate for me? And I appreciate Michelle's question because she doesn't want, she doesn't want to begin to participate in consumerism again. But I will say that the ideology of buying certain things in order to complete my wardrobe is a type of consumerism in a way. And what's nice about you, the the experts who know things about this, like our friend Courtney Carver, they recognize that. Yeah. Well, she has Project 333, which to me is the best capsule wardrobe thing that you can do. It's 33 items over the course of three months. 333, right? And in understanding that, what you do is you don't get rid of everything else. You essentially make a packing, it's like a reverse packing party. You, you hide all of the other clothes except these 33 items, and you realize how little you actually need. Now, Michelle's already there. She has five shirts and three pairs of pants. The answer for you, Michelle, is you might have too few things if you feel as though your things are wearing out too quickly, or the story you might be telling yourself is, "These things are wearing out too quickly," but they're not. Your clothes will wear out in time, and that is okay. Mmm. It's not a shopping addiction to replace things that add value to your life, as long as you're being honest about those things adding value.

Makes me think about, I was talking to, uh, Danny about my kettle and how it works really well. It's a great, I can like choose the temperature. I've had it for like four or five years. It's the second one I've had because the first one like broke in a couple years. Josh Weaver over at Bandit Coffee, he was telling me how that specific kettle, like, you're lucky to get, you know, two years out of it. And this is going on five. But there's a piece in me, like, there's this really beautiful kettle that aesthetically, I really am drawn towards. And a piece of me is like, "Oh, I cannot wait for this kettle to break so I can like replace it with this beautiful kettle." So, you know, I don't know. I'm just saying that because, yeah, I, I'm with Angela here. Like, there is a, there's a line between buying something because it's worn out and you need it, or just buying something because you're drawn towards it because it's, you know, for whatever reason why you're drawn towards it. Indeed. Yeah. But for me, it's, yeah, it's all about, same thing with my shirts. It's like, as soon as they start to fade, it's like, "Okay, it's time to get some new shirts." As soon as that kettle breaks, it's time to get a new kettle. But I'm not going to like, you know, randomly drop the kettle all the time to break it on purpose or anything. Indeed.

Michelle, I'd love to send you a copy of our book, *Love People Use Things*, because in that book, we have these six questions to ask before buying. And so one of the questions that you're, that Ryan's asking when he's not replacing his kettle right now is, "Is this the best use of this money?" Because, Ryan, you could afford, sure, to replace the kettle, but right now you're saying, "This isn't the best use of this money." Also, things like, "Can I go without this for a period of time?" For you, you don't need the new kettle right now. But you wouldn't be wrong or, um, bad for replacing the kettle right now, even if the old one wasn't broken, if you decided that you valued the aesthetics of of the new kettle. You don't even want to deprive yourself of that. But the difference is, you're being intentional. And so, Michelle, you can be intentional by asking yourself these six questions. In fact, anyone listening to this can download a free wallpaper over on our website. It's theminimalists.com/resource. They're on our resources page. One of our free wallpapers has those questions right there on your phone. So next time you're in line at at some department store or grocery store, or you're getting ready to buy something off of Amazon, just ask yourself very quickly those five questions. It'll give you enough pause so that you can move on from the purchase, or you can purchase the thing knowing that you're doing so deliberately.

Also, because you're in Phoenix, we're going to be in Phoenix this week, Michelle. So Sean, if you would mind, reach out to, um, to Michelle, give her a couple tickets to our Phoenix event. We're going to be in Salt Lake City and Denver and Phoenix this week. And then next month, we'll be in Nashville, and we'll be in Atlanta and Orlando. And then after that, we've got like 11 other cities. We just got back from Texas. We're going to talk about that during our Right Here Right Now segment, some of the, the experiences we just had on the road. Michelle, we'll see you in Phoenix. For anyone else who wants to join us, theminimalists.com/tour.

Ryan, what time is it?

You know what time it is. It's time for the lightning round, where we answer your text messages. You can text your questions and comments to 937-224-654.

Yes, indeed. Now, during the lightning round, this is where Ryan and I do our best to answer questions with a short, sharable, less than 140 character response. We put the text to these minimal maxims in the show notes, so you can copy and share our pithy answers on social media if you like. And now, thanks to our good friend Jessica Lynn Williams, Social Jess, as we call her, you can, uh, you can find all of our minimal maxims over at minimalmaxims.com.

Ryan, we have a question from Teresa. "What can I do to alter or change my shopping habits?"

You know what's fascinating about this? Is so, I'll give you my pithy answer here in a moment. It actually comes from this essay I wrote called "Changing Your Life Won't Change Your Life." And so here's my pithy answer: Clutter doesn't make you discontented; chasing contentment through consumerism does. So the, the reason that all the habit change experts know this, whether it's our good friend Matt D'Avella or, or, uh, James Clear. You look at all the, the, the behavioral psychologists. They understand that behavior change comes from the root. It's like, "How do I grow fruit with just a branch?" Well, you don't. It's about planting the tree and, and tending to the roots and understanding what's going on from, well, at the base level of this. So, so changing your habits, I understand the desire, but think about this for a second, Teresa. Think about all the times you've changed a habit and only changed the habit, didn't change any of your understanding, didn't change the, uh, you changed only the behaviors. Guess what? You may have changed for a week, or a month, or even a year, and you deployed the discipline and you committed to the new habit. But eventually, something happened, didn't it? Well, why, why did something happen? Because you didn't actually understand the why behind the habit you were trying to change.

Deploy the discipline. Sounds like a really, like a self-help book title. Joo Willink. Uh, you know, my pithy answer has to do with the why. So here it is: The how is most useful after you understand the why. So, so, you know, like kind of like what we talk about with decluttering. There's not a lack of decluttering tips out there. Mmm. There's not a lack of of tips on how to change your shopping habits. There's plenty of how out there. The real question is why. And that can only be answered by one person, Teresa, and that's you. Right? I can't give you your why. Right? And so I can tell you what my whys were when I was addicted to shopping. Is because I felt a sense of inadequacy. I felt a sense of insignificance. And thinking as though those things are going to make me significant. And so it's two whys here. Ryan, I love that you brought up the why, because the, the first why is, well, why do I have this habit in the first place? And it's not about replacing it with another habit. I often, I will often say, letting go is not something you do, it's something you stop doing. The same thing is true with habit change. It's not simply about, well, I need to change my habit. No, I just want to stop the habits that I no longer want to do anymore. Well, how do I do that? Well, as you said, Ryan, you understand it. You get to the why. So, why do I have this habit? And then also, why behind the why? Why do I feel insignificant? Because if I understand the insignificance, or whatever your why is, then all of a sudden, I don't even, oh, it's a trap. It is an illusion. It's a delusion. These things are going to make me more significant. Start saying some of these things out loud. That new t-shirt is going to make me more significant. If I buy a Lexus, I'll be a better person. Mmm. If I get my dream home. What's the, the line from *Belly* when he said, uh, "I bought my dream home, and I've now, I've been having nightmares in it." Yeah. That's what that's what shopping impulse is. That's what shopping addiction is. Buying the things we think we want, these dream items, and they end up being a nightmare.

For all of us. We got so much more to talk about, Ryan. But you got something for us?

Yeah, man. Here are some voicemail comments and insights from our listeners. Check them out.

Hi, my name is Stephanie. I'm in Denver, Colorado. I was just calling as a, um, a person who has a creative hobby that accumulates a lot of stuff. I really love to crochet, so I have lots of yarn and felt and needle and all sorts of, um, all sorts of accoutrements, I think is the word you like, with with that hobby. And I actually had turned it into a business on Etsy for about a year, and then I decided I, um, that that wasn't a good choice for me. Well, now I have all these items. I have a business-size store of these items. And the way I decided to handle that was to, um, liquidate my stock by creating donation items. I'm making little crochet photo props that I'm going to donate to my local hospital. And so it's become a project, uh, for me that will both help me minimize the stock that I have on hand, which are, you know, yarn is something that's kind of hard to, um, donate. But it's also given me a way to give back to my community and a, what I hope is a meaningful way for families that receive these little items that they can possibly, you know, have photos taken of their children and then maybe donate themselves. So, um, I just thought that that was a way for artists to handle the, "I have way too many supplies" because it really is a, just in case item, not a just for when. You're holding on to tons and tons and tons of craft supplies.

Hi, Joshua and Ryan. My name is Manny Deas from, um, Greenville, Delaware. I just listened to your Ask The Minimalists live episode where you mentioned your friend who's a photographer. And I love photography. And I have a recommendation for any fellow photography lovers, including the Instagrammy kind. So I confess, I spent way too much money on DSLR cameras and lenses and equipment, over $1,000. And like many other things, it was a never-ending cycle of lust and desire and upgrading, fueled by all the ads and excitement on the photography online forums and magazines. And I finally realized the problem was not the cameras, it was me. Like you said, it isn't a pen that makes a great writer. So what helped me find peace was using film. Like you mentioned, which is why I decided to call in. I actually started using a Fujifilm instant film camera. And the pivotal thing was that each film cartridge holds only 10 shots. So in addition, each shot was roughly 75 cents. So I was forced to become much more intentional with every shot. I would walk around the scene, visualize the best shot from different angles, and only then take a single photo. Also, I quickly found I ended up taking a lot more photos of people I cared about, and not of random scenes or parks or sunsets. I think the process revealed my true priorities to me, which was an important surprise. And the other thing is, although each photo was another physical object I had to possess, I found I ended up feeling joy and gratitude each time I taped a new photo of my friends or family on my wall that I can see every day, or put it in my car, uh, you can put it in your wallet. Uh, you can also easily give them to other people for them to appreciate, too. And I found that people really like this. So I'd recommend checking out an instant film camera if, like me, you were on the digital camera upgrade treadmill and you want to get off.

All right, Josh. We got a bunch more surprise questions this Thursday on Patreon. That's the Maximal episode of The Minimalists Private Podcast. Patreon.com/TheMinimalists. But first, real quick, Right Here Right Now. Here's one thing that's going on in the life of The Minimalists. Actually, two things. We're on TikTok now, Ryan.

Oh my God. Do I have to learn all the TikTok dances?

Well, it is an addiction of yours. Dancing. Oh my goodness. It's ruining his life. How much he dances. Oh, man. We are, I had no idea we were that cool. Emma was trying to talk us into doing some TikTok dance to announce. But no, it's really, it's one-minute snippets from the podcast. Big thanks to to Danny, who's curating those with with Jess there. There's nothing wrong with those dances. I just can't dance is the problem. I mean, you can dance, but not well.

You said it. I, I think you're a fine dancer, Ryan.

Oh, thanks. And so we are on TikTok now. We're just at The Minimalists on TikTok. And there aren't dances yet, unless Emma can talk us into it. She, she looks very, uh, mischievous right now. Um, but you will see little snippets from the podcast. Go ahead and do us a favor. Hop on over there. If you are on TikTok, you don't have to feel compelled to do this. Give us a little starter like and share and all those fun things. Interact with our TikTok account so more people can learn this message of living with less.

Another thing that's going on in the life of The Minimalists right now. We had to move our, our Denver tour stop, which is this week. So the Comedy Works double-booked. They have two locations. We're just going to the other location. Okay. If you already have tickets, you already received an update. All tickets already will, will get you in the door. Just make sure you go to the right location. Just go to TheMinimalists.com. You can click on Denver or any of our other 20 cities.

Ryan, we just got back from Texas, man.

Yeah, that was awesome. Oh my gosh. We had some great guests, some surprise guests. Yeah. Yeah, man. No, I really was happy to get down there and, man, to be back on the road after how long's been since we've been on the road? Two years, three years. Good grief, man. It was, I had, yeah, well, I was very rusty, but that's okay. Uh-huh. The crowds were small enough, I felt comfortable like, you know, just kind of working all the kinks out. Mmm. But man, getting people in, I just forgot how that made me feel. The live podcast. It was, uh, it was awesome. Yeah. Your talk was awesome. Uh, we, we did a book reading from *Love People Use Things*. In fact, I'm going to talk about that on the Maximal episode this week. There was something about shopping addiction in the book that really resonated with the crowd. I think it made them uncomfortable when I was reading to them. You started seeing these looks on their faces. So yeah, we were in Houston, we were in San Antonio, we were in Dallas. We had Ian Cron at our Dallas event. We had Dr. John Deloney at our Houston event. And it was just me and Ryan in San Antonio. We got some special guests on the road with us as well, some secret surprise guests. TheMinimalists.com/tour. If you want to see a talk about minimalism, if you want to hear a reading and a live version of The Minimalists Podcast for our added value this week, Ryan, this is a song. Sean, I feel like I couldn't find this in our previous show notes, so I'm going to recommend it again. If it's, if it's an added value from the past, then great, you get it, uh, twice. It's added that much value. It's a song called "Personal Shopper" by Steven Wilson. He has this new album that came out last year called *The Future Bites*. And here's this lyric. It's a long song, but go ahead and start playing it right now. I'm going to start talking about this. Sean, here are the lyrics: "Have now, have now. Pay in another life. Kickstart the future. Accept this loan. Fill in the form. You're pre-qualified. You're now the sum of what you own." And the song just goes on to talk about how we are owned by our addictions, by our shopping addictions. We're going into debt. We're tethering ourselves to this life that is making us miserable. And shopping is a big component of that.

By the way, we have a bunch more surprise questions this week, like, "How do I handle a shopping addiction if it involves buying things not for me, but for my children?" "How can I stop obsessively researching every new purchase?" That's one thing that I quite often do, as I get obsessive about the research. "What are The Minimalists' thoughts on retail therapy?" Plus a million more questions about shopping and consumerism. And if you want to hear all that, join us on The Minimalists Private Podcast this week. Visit Patreon.com/TheMinimalists to subscribe and get your personal link so that our private podcast plays in your favorite podcast app. You also get access to any of our live events. The upcoming live events, we'll put those up on Patreon and our archives, thousands of hours of less, and our Ask The Minimalist Anything sessions. We do one of those once a month. In fact, we're going to record one of those today. Ask The Minimalist Anything. People ask some wild questions on that. And you get access to our entire community of Simpletons. You can interact with folks over there. Patreon.com/TheMinimalists. You can follow The Minimalists on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at TheMinimalists. If you have a question, comment, or minimalism tip for our podcast, email a voice memo to podcast@theminimalists.com. Comment on this episode, youtube.com/TheMinimalists. And if you want our show notes in your inbox, sign up for our email list over at theminimalists.com. You'll also receive our Simple Sunday emails whenever we send those. We send them for free. And if you leave here today with just one message, let it be this: Love people and use things, because the opposite never works. Thanks for listening, y'all. We'll see you next time.

[Music]

Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing you think that you need. Every little thing that's just feeding your greed. Oh, I bet that you'll be fine without it.