Transcription
So ladies and gentlemen, today we are very honored to have Deputy Prime Minister Mr. Gimyong to our channel. Right. Right. DPM.
Very happy to see you here.
Good morning and good to see you.
It's a great honor. You're the biggest shot I ever had my channel. So you make me very Kong today.
You're one of the biggest channels I've ever had.
No, but I, I, I today, I, I actually get nervous. Usually I don't get nervous.
Oh, don't worry. Relax. We are all in good company.
Well, so just to let you know, our channel, uh, is a finance community. Mhm. We all very interested in investment, stock market, uh, AI, things that happen, uh, uh, to to Singapore. And, more importantly, I will let you have a chance to say hi to our community.
Well, I just want to thank you very much for inviting me to this channel. I just want to say hi to all your community, uh, all your listeners, and we hope to be able to have this interaction and, uh, share some of my views and my thoughts, and hope I hope that they will be helpful to all of you.
Okay. So DPM, I think all my interviewees come to my channel, I always ask them two questions, okay? And this is a very important question because all of us are interested in money and investment and stock picking and all this. But more importantly, we are also interested in food as well. So now that you have moved house to Punggol, mhm, can you let us know which is the best makan place in Punggol?
Well, every place is a good makan place, but I must say that there's a long list. But if you come to Punggol, I will bring you to...
I used to be... many of them. Oh, that's good to hear. I hope you had an enjoyable stay there while you were...
20 years ago.
Do come back. I think Punggol has changed since 20 years ago. And there are a lot of new places that you can go for makan. And one of our favorite place that I go to is, uh, the, uh, wantan noodle in the One Punggol. And it's a very popular store. Usually there's a long queue. And there's another one noodle store in the new, uh, hawker center in the Punggol Digital District. And that's a has a Thai flavor. So I think it's very unique and also very long queue. And of course, there's also, uh, duck rice which is very famous. And, uh, that's a Buona Vista duck rice. I think many of you are familiar with. Yes. It's not in Punggol Digital District.
I didn't know that.
Yes. And we hope you can come and I can 'branchai' you to this, uh, hawker center. And many of the stores, especially during lunchtime, has a long queue. And, uh, so do come early and I'll show you around.
I didn't know that. Well, today the biggest, uh, one of the biggest gain right now is this one.
Yes. But I must, I must emphasize, every store a good store.
Okay.
So political, all the food are very tasty and very good.
Okay. Very good. Now the second most important question, uh, not in order of importance, but is this question, uh, I don't know whether, DPM, can you buy stocks and shares?
Yes, I can.
Is it, can give some stock pick advice or investment advice to our community? Not investment...
It's a very important question, and, uh, I'll answer that question at the end of the program.
Yeah, okay. So ladies and gentlemen, please remember to stay until the end where DPM will share with us his investment, uh, uh, tips for all of you. Okay.
So now we now go to the content proper.
Mhm.
Uh, quite a lot of our community have voiced out, uh, this question in different ways. I would frame it that Singapore is going to face, or already facing, what I call perfect storm.
Uh, first, we have the AI wave that's coming. Uh, I think AI is generally viewed as disruptive, mhm, and also value adding, depending on which side you sit. But there's a AI wave that's coming, and a lot of people are very anxious and worried.
Then we have now the RTS link coming. So, with the RTS link, there's going to be a lot of people, they're going to go to JB and shop, okay, including myself. Okay. And that will bring a lot of the customers and demand away from Singapore. Some businesses will be hit and things like that. And on top of that, now it's very easy for Malaysians to come into Singapore and come and 'ch one,' come and compete with our rice bowl.
Uh, and the third one is already here, and it's probably getting worse, um, or maybe 'worse' is wrong, but more intense, is that the China Chinese companies are coming down to Singapore in a fast and rapid way. They are hungry. They're well-funded. They are innovative. And my goodness, you see them coming out in Singapore, mhm, in a massive way. And if very hard for companies, uh, and even workers, to compete with them. Mhm.
So, what's your view on this perfect storm? Um, how is the Singapore government position on this? And, uh, should we be worried, and what should we do?
That's a good question. I think I can fully understand the anxiety of Singaporeans when they are faced with these very recent trends, and they see that this will pose competition for for them, whether they are in business, whether they are working, uh, there's potential competition.
And, uh, but some other Singaporeans will welcome these trends, like RTS, like you. Uh, you welcome it because you can go to, uh, JB to to buy things. Uh, this will help makan and to help reduce your cost. Uh, so I think some of these are, there are pros and cons. But overall, I think we cannot, uh, hope to be able to continue to thrive, uh, because of inefficiencies, and we are very happy that the business cannot come over and people cannot go over. It doesn't work that way because over time many of these, uh, inefficiencies will improve, eventually become very efficient.
We must embrace, uh, these changes because they're positive in nature, but it also has impact on us. I think we cannot trivialize it. The key is how can I prepare ourselves, uh, so that we are ready for this, uh, the impact of these trends.
Let me give you an example. If you think back, uh, during COVID-19, it's many years ago already by now. Uh, and...
Yes, still a nightmarish memory to...
Yeah, I think because it's a long period of time, so we remember. You will recall in the early days, we quarantine everybody, right? Then we have safe distancing. This is to protect ourselves because we want to, uh, make sure that the virus don't come to us. So this is a protection, uh, approach. But eventually we find that if you continue to quarantine people, you continue to keep on, uh, imposing safe distancing, the society will break down. So the real solution is vaccination. Mhm.
So vaccination will allow us to build up our, uh, our immunity, our, um, protection, uh, for ourselves against the virus, and allow us to somewhat go back to normal life. So I think this competition that we see is in a very similar nature. The key is instead of being fearful, being discouraged, uh, being try to protect ourselves and try to ward them off and resist them, I think it's important for us to pivot to a more sustainable strategy, and that is to make sure that we are strong enough, we are competitive, improve our skills, improve our capability so that we can compete with the rest of the world.
In fact, that has been the story of Singapore since the beginning. We compete with the rest of the world because we are very small. We don't have a our own market to rely on. We have to go out into the world. So we are looking at our neighbors, but our neighbors are actually not the main competitors. Our competitors are from much further away. So we need to make sure that over time we continue to upgrade ourselves, train ourselves, have new skills. We have things that others don't have. We, we are able to offer services that are unique to us and not so easy for others to copy and replicate. Right?
If you talk about RTS bringing in the, uh, uh, bringing Singaporeans over to, uh, Johor to buy things, but if you remember today, without RTS, you are already going to Johor.
We already doing that. Yeah.
You're doing that. And on top of that, in fact, Johor is also facing competition from e-commerce.
Many of us buy things on the internet, actually, is even cheaper than going over to Johor.
Absolutely.
Right. And therefore, even without the, uh, Chinese businesses coming here, their products are already here through the e-commerce. So I think this trend is going to continue. The real solution is really to make ourselves fitter. So we keep running, keep training ourselves so that we can run the marathon. I think this is unfortunately our story of Singapore's life.
It's like that.
It's like that. It's like that.
Yeah.
But, but fortunately, we have been investing over the decades in our people, training them, providing them with opportunities to upgrade. And that's why we roll out this SkillsFuture concept to encourage Singaporeans to continue to upgrade ourselves so that come what may, we will be strong enough to resist and to compete with our competitors out out there.
So, keep running, keep training.
That's right.
Keep running, keep strong, stay strong.
Yeah.
So now, talking about AI, it's a big wave that's coming.
Mhm.
And it's already here. And I was very fortunate that I'm involved in AI businesses. And recently I spent three weeks in China, traveled six cities, mhm, um, main tier cities, tier one cities. And I saw how AI is now being widely adopted, and how it also have destructive power in disruptive many businesses and industries.
So for Singapore, all of us are more or less aware that AI is not 'house,' is real, you know, it's, is real, and it's coming. Now I think there are two approaches I see around the world.
One approach of the governments, uh, in some countries, are taking is, 'Don't worry, I'll take care of you. I'll try to resist AI. I'll make sure I protect your job and things like that.' Uh, this called what I call a 'mother hand' approach. Mhm. Okay, protect as much as possible, resist the AI from coming in, give the people some time to learn and train whatsoever. That's one approach, 'mother hand' approach.
The other one is a 'lesser flare' approach. Okay, hands off, like China. Wow, I see China destructive power in, let's say, the film industry. Wow, uh, many of the jobs are all gone, yeah, all absolutely. But because of that, the people become more 'kong,' take things in our own hands, rush to learn. So I attended a few, take, attended a few, uh, AI classes. Not, not attend, I just went to see. But you see uncle, aunties, young people, all walks of life, different, all rushing to learn, the, because they know it's coming. They take things their own hands, then there's sense of urgency. So that's a lesser fair approach.
So what is the Singapore government approach towards towards AI in this aspect?
Well, I just to say that, uh, AI is not just coming, it's already here. I think you can see even in Singapore, many businesses have, uh, embraced AI, adopted AI, and AI will continue to, uh, drive change in the, in the economy. I think the impact can be positive and negative, as you mentioned. The positive side is going to make the businesses more efficient, more cost-effective, and you need less resources to be able to do the same thing.
But it's also a able to allow you to do things that you could not do before because AI, with automation, with big data analytics, with large language model, allow you to do many things that you could not imagine before. So I think these are going to be game-changing. But AI will also be disruptive, like you said.
In order for us to embrace and benefit fully from the potential of AI, we will need to change the way we do business. We need to change the way we work, and in fact, you will may have to change the way we learn and the way we live. But I think AI is going to be very disruptive.
So the solution to managing AI is not the two extreme. Either you resist it, because it's, it cannot be resisted here, because if it's not here, it's everywhere else, and you will be, uh, uh, the only one that don't have AI. I think we'll be in trouble. So I think it's important for us to understand that this is coming in, and AI is already here, and we need to prepare for it.
But neither is it a case where we allow an open season, you know, everyone do what you want, and then you find that the economy may be disrupted and may be damaged and may be destroyed. So it's very important for us to take a calibrated approach, first, calibrated approach. I think calibration is the key.
Calibrated approach.
Because important for us to understand the impact of AI. It does, it will not happen overnight. There's a transition period, and it's important for us to manage the transition while we allow AI to come in, manage the development of AI to make sure that they apply correctly. But at the same time, understand the impact it will have to our people, to our workers, to our economy, and manage the transition to help the economies transform so that not only are they able to manage AI, in fact, they will be able to take advantage of AI to do even better.
From our workers, the same thing, we want to help our workers because instead of being affected and impacted by AI, they should be able to embrace AI. Give them the skills and knowledge how to learn AI so that when AI happens in their company, they will be able to master AI and become a user of AI rather than be a victim of AI.
So I think this is what we are hoping to change, and we announced our new strategy and approach to AI, uh, just during the recent departure debate. And Prime Minister is heading a National AI Council to coordinate all these, uh, measures and efforts on the ground to make sure that we take a whole of nation approach. Every agency, every part of the nation needs to be able to coordinate, to be coordinated, so that we have an effective response to the, uh, AI, uh, uh, wave.
Uh, one example is we want to help companies, uh, to transform themselves, as I mentioned earlier, to fully embrace AI. We need to help companies to transform their business processes, the way they do business, the way they relate to customers, the way they organize themselves. They need to change. So we want to help companies to change.
But at the same time, we also want to help workers to change. So we roll out, uh, many, uh, initiatives to help to train our workers. We also offer a, um, uh, six months of, uh, access to premium high-quality AI tools if they go for AI courses. Uh, so this is how we want to make sure that Singaporeans have, are able to embrace the technology.
At the same time, we also want to make sure that Singaporeans generally know a little bit of AI. So they understand AI, they can use AI, and don't, they don't have to be afraid of AI. If you recall, maybe 20 years back, uh, when internet first came into the scene, when computer, even 50 years back, when computer first came into the scene, people are worried about turning on the computer because they don't know what's going to happen if you press the wrong key.
Today, uh, you don't even think about it as a computer. It's just part and puzzle, like a cup and, and so on. You just use it. Internet is the same. I think today almost everyone understands internet and they make use of internet even without knowing it, like digital payment and so on. So all these are new technology, and I think in time to come, yeah, will become something like that, that it's integrated in our lives. We use it without thinking twice.
But in order to get there, there is a transition, and this transition has to be managed properly so that we make sure that the jobs will change, but we want to protect the workers. We may not be able to protect every job because jobs will change, and they will have new jobs created. But we want to make sure that we have enough new jobs that being created so that those who are affected will still continue to find good jobs.
So I think we want to protect the workers, give them skills, give them opportunity, provide stronger career guidance so that they will always be able to manage this process. And in the end, when we reach the other side, and where AI became, uh, becomes the norm mainstream, I think we will all be able to benefit from AI. And if we are do able to do it well, and we are do, we can do it faster than other countries, I think we'll become a very competitive economy. I think AI will become our strength. It will become our strategic tool to be able to help us compete in the new world.
Very good. So everyone must quickly pick up AI.
Yes. Just like last time, we encourage everyone to learn about internet. Today, you don't have to encourage them because they all grow up in the internet era. Correct.
So I think in times to come, it will be like that. But this period is important. So we want to encourage them to learn as much as they can, at least have some basic skills on AI, just like you have basic skills in internet.
Sure. Very good. Okay. Um, so DPM, I think that was a great response to for the country towards AI. But for those uncle, aunties, like myself—I don't like think of myself uncle, but I am uncle, I'm going to be grandfather soon. Yeah. So now for those in their maybe in their late 40s, 50s, and even 60s, they want to work. They want to be part of our Singapore story and dream, and they want to keep themselves gainfully employed.
But now they face all these threats of, um, of AI, um, agism, meaning that their bosses think of them as a bit too old, too expensive, and maybe some job displacements and things like that. Mhm.
What's your best advice specifically for this, this senior segment? Okay, which is my segment, before you think I'm talking my segment. Okay.
Thank you very much. Uh, first, I must say that, uh, in Punggol, uh, the young children all call me 'Ah Gong,' so I fully appreciate the impact of, uh, growing old. Uh, but growing old can be fulfilling, can be exciting, can be very colorful. I think so long as you are able to stay active, continue to be gainfully employed, there are many opportunities for us.
But it's also, uh, uh, important to recognize that there are challenges. I think we cannot trivialize that. I think the, the government has been working very hard with our tripartite partners, with the unions, with the employers, uh, federation, together with the Ministry of Manpower and the rest of the government. We work together to see how we can make the workplace more, uh, senior friendly.
And we know that as you grow old, your interest will change, your, your focus will change, your capability may change, and your productivity may change. But if you're able to continue to stay active, continue to upgrade yourself, acquire new skills, understand new technology, embrace new business models, new way of working, I think you can continue to stay productive for much longer. So I think training and upgrading continues to be very important.
Training and upgrading, training, upgrading, very important, even for, for seniors. Okay.
We Chinese has a saying, '活到老学到老,' and last time when we read it in the book when we were very young, say, 'you know what is this?' But now that we are older, we understand. We understand when you are learning, you are alive. So I think when you're alive, you must continue to learn new knowledge, new skills, new capabilities. I think this way you'll be able to remain productive longer.
But at the same time, we also recognize that we need to work with employers. They do need to make the employment, the workplace, more senior friendly, uh, barrier-free access, for example, um, better design of the offices, and also seniors find more comfortable. It's also important to remind employers that we should not practice, uh, discrimination against age. And that's why we introduced the, uh, Workplace Fairness Act recently to, to, to encourage, to show the way forward how employers should make their workplace senior friendly and should have human resource practices that are, uh, friendly to seniors and do not discriminate against them.
And this way, I think, is better for all of us because at the end of the day, we know that Singapore is always short of talent and manpower. So I think if you are able to allow the seniors to continue to contribute, not only will it be a positive, uh, outcome for the seniors, it's also positive for the employees because they can then have access to more manpower.
I think one element is a flexible work arrangement. I think as you grow older, your priorities may be your family, your children, your grandchildren, and you want to be able to work more flexibly. I think the flexibility is something that we're also working with the employers to see how we can inject greater flexibility so that seniors can continue to work, maybe in a different way, uh, but continue to be productive and contribute to the economy.
And there are also many opportunities for seniors to be active in the community, uh, doing, uh, community work, voluntary work, and to continue to contribute to the society. I think we Chinese has another word, uh, '老有所为.' Yeah, so for, for the nation, I think if we have seniors among us, I think it's a blessing. So we should find a way to make sure that they can live comfortably. They can continue to work as long as they wish, and one key, uh, strategy is make sure we give them training and upgrading so that they can stay relevant and keep up with time. So I think that is very important.
So, regardless of what age you are, we must keep upgrading ourselves, right?
So I must tell you, my own mother-in-law, when, uh, she was 80 years old—that's about, uh, 10, 12 years ago—uh, she was learning Facebook. Yeah. At that time, Facebook was the 'in' thing, and then she saw everybody using Facebook and children having Facebook. So she learned how to use Facebook.
And then during COVID-19, we taught her how to use Facebook to do video, uh, uh, conferencing so that we, we can't visit them. You remember there was a lockdown period, so we have to teach her how to use, uh, uh, Facebook, uh, uh, video conferencing and Zoom later on, how to communicate as a family. So I think these are the new things that she continues to learn, which, because she's alone at home together with my father-in-law at that time, all of us have stay on our own family. So it was very difficult to visit her.
So I think that was a good opportunity for her to learn technology, and that also shows that even if you are 80 years old or more, continue to learn, and technology is not frightening. You can master it. So go on, take on the courses, and continue to learn and acquire new.
Take on all courses and continue to learn. Very important.
So DPM, now that we know that AI is coming, it's already here, it's probably going to get more serious, and they are highly disruptive. Mhm.
Uh, I've known of companies that used to be in need of maybe customer service officer. Now they got agents, AI agents, to replace them. They can only replace from maybe five or 10 workers to now one worker. So the question in our mind right now, in many of our community, is, so where's the new job going to come from?
Because, uh, when new companies are set up, uh, people are talking about, uh, a company of one, one person, then you have many agents replacing them. So a lot of people are very frightened about the prospect that there'll be less job and maybe massive unemployment. I think Elon Mus was frightening the whole world about this, uh, massive unemployment. That could that happen to Singapore?
So let me, uh, put it in context. If you look at the technology, whether it's AI, whether it's productivity movement in the past where we had it, uh, the first initial reaction is going to be fear, right? 'Chalat.' And the idea is that, well, if AI can give me the agent, AI agent, to allow me to have one person to handle 100 people rather than 10% handle 100 people, then I'm going to lose nine jobs, right? But that's the initial natural reaction, instinctive reaction.
But if you think deeper, if I can use AI agent to help me with one person to handle 100, I can still use agent with 10 people to handle 1,000, right? So there's scaling effect. So if you're able to scale and allow me to be able to handle 1,000 people, last time I can only have handle 100, and my competitor who didn't have AI agent is still continuing with 100. I'm going to 'muck' his 100 so that I can have 1,000 customer.
And the, the 10 people that I have may not need to lose the job. And so true, they may, I may not need 10 altogether, may need five or four. But I still have new jobs created. Someone has to design the, the agents. Someone has to run the agents. Someone may have to have, uh, uh, additional services provided to the people. So there will be new jobs being created, but these are likely to be, uh, higher knowledge-based jobs, higher value jobs, these even better jobs.
So the key again is go back to training. If I'm able to train those customer officers to be able to handle the agents, or handle the developmental work, or handle personal relationship development work, rather than to have to answer phone calls. Yeah. Train the agents, and all this is new jobs that will be created.
So it is true that it's harder to create new jobs, and it's harder to, uh, to have, uh, the capability to, uh, master these new jobs. But I think training is going to be the key. That's one part of it.
The second part, which is, uh, maybe even more important, you know, uh, there's a difference between intelligence and something we call wisdom. Intelligence is something that you can train. You can get the agents to help you do. You can get AI to do many of the task with some intelligence. They know what to do.
But when it comes to judgment, actually it's very important to have, to have wisdom. Wisdom allows you to take into account many factors. Sometimes they are not scientific factors. Sometimes it is your judgment.
Human.
Yeah. Human factors and judgments and relationship. You cannot have a AI relationship with your customers, right? You can have AI agents to help you manage customer queries and their daily operation. But every now and then, you know that you need to meet your customer. There is a personal engagement and relationship, and you cannot, uh, be talking to your wife through a AI.
She slap me.
Yeah. Right?
So there's need for us to develop relationship in, in our daily lives, in our businesses, in our learning. All these require personal touch, and therefore there will be a lot more new opportunities for jobs that requires this wisdom and judgment and human touch. I think, uh, don't have to worry. We'll continue to create more jobs for our Singaporeans. But the key is we must train them so that they have the skills to be able to master these new jobs.
The new jobs are going to be very different from the old jobs. Right? If you remember, uh, when we first roll out productivity movement, we move from, uh, mechanical typewriter to electric typewriter, which a lot more effective. Then we went from electric typewriter to word processor. Right? The word processor is very effective.
Now you don't even need word processors. Uh, either you can verbally, your dictation, you will take your, your speech translation, right? And now the whole machine is on your handphone, right? You, you don't need word processor anymore. So therefore, I think the technology will change. The new job that is created is going to be very different from the old jobs, and therefore training and skills upgrading is very critical to be able to do well in this new world.
I see. Wow, this a very big theme, you know, training, training, training, retraining. Very good. So thanks, DPM, for what you shared so far. And I will put a pause to here, and then we'll come back again tomorrow for you as we have the next session for DPM. And remember, DPM haven't shared his investment advice yet. Okay, I'll try to get his, what did, what stock did he buy, right? So that'll be in tomorrow's session. Okay, so stay tuned. Right, thank you.
Thank you. Stay tuned. Thank you so much. Thank you.