Transcription
Well, when you hear the word Pizzagate, most people instantly think of the 2016 internet frenzy, hacked emails, John Podesta leaks from Wikileaks, the mainstream media trying to spin it as if it was focused around a DC pizza shop which ended in violence. But of course, that wasn't true.
The pizza shop was cover for the bigger story of elite networks using coded language like pizza and hot dogs to arrange for abuse of underage children. Jeffrey Epstein was real. The trafficking was real. And in the newest tranche of Epstein documents, the word pizza is referenced tons of times. Some perhaps about food, others clearly about having their way with young girls. Code word pizza.
One journalist 10 years ago who was fearlessly reporting on Pizzagate was journalist Ben Swan. He was one of only a few mainstream TV people at the time who was willing to ask any questions at all on air about Pizzagate. And he paid a professional price for it, of course. So, after losing his career in mainstream media and with the newly released Epstein files, Ben Swan is vindicated. Here was his report from just a few days ago. Watch.
Anyone who dared to suggest that this might be true was blacklisted, shadowbanned, or thrown off of social media. But then, just days ago, the largest dump of Epstein files revealed what some of us have been telling you for a decade. That Pizzagate is real. Not that there is a pizza parlor at the center of a child trafficking ring, but that child trafficking rings run by some of the most powerful people in the world do exist.
>> Ben Swan is kind enough to join us now on the show. Great to have you here, Ben.
>> Guys, I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
>> Our pleasure. Well, they came after you fast.
>> Um, what was the moment? Maybe just take us back and just kind of unpack this and I want to get your meta-analysis of where we are now with the new documents, but what was the moment then where you realized like, oh, >> they're not just criticizing this report about the pizza shop, they're trying to destroy me, Ben Swan.
Well, I I knew that within about 30 minutes of getting into work the day after the report aired. The report aired at 11:00 at night, CBS in Atlanta, and the next day when I came into work, all of a sudden, you know, I'm I'm the first thing that happens, I'm called into general manager's office, sits me down and says, "You know, what the hell did you put on television last night?" And so, we start talking about the report, which by the way had been vetted in the newsroom. It had been signed off on by the seniormost news people in the in the building. I didn't go rogue. I mean, everyone had seen this thing. They knew I was working on it for over a month. And so, um, but then it was all the reaction. the reaction from Washington DC. We had lawyers calling us. We had lobbyists calling us. We had CBS network calling and saying, "What are you guys doing down there? How could you put this on air?" Uh, and so there was this this frenzy around it. And then immediately they said, "Listen, here's the deal. You're either going to take all your social media and turn it all off or you're fired today." Right? And I'm like, "Well, I mean, I guess you can fire me, but there's no cause for firing me. Didn't violate any rules. It didn't do anything wrong." And actually the reporting stands up. There was so much we could have talked about in that pizza story that's not covered if you watch the whole thing. Um I mean there were so many deep deep things we could have got into. This was just a very surface level because it was airing on broadcast television and as you guys know there's certain rules that you have to follow. You can't show a lot of the Instagram stuff. You can't show a lot of pictures and so we were very careful in what we did. But even what we did share was so shocking and alarming uh that all of a sudden, you know, it was this thing's coming down and all your social media has got to go away. And that's what happened for a year.
>> Now, I'm curious about the way that you might observe the way mainstream media today is covering this. They're not touching pizza gate even still. The way they cover even the Bondi hearings yesterday, our local news was like, well, they did say Lex Wexner. They just said it. Let's move on. not who is he that's you know it's Valentine's Day weekend maybe you want to rethink Victoria's Secret how about all the like it's so ignorant and purposely divisive and as someone who tried to tell the truth you must feel very vindicated but also pissed if you're like me I'm pissed.
>> Well, not really pissed or vindicated to be totally honest with you because I I knew from the day that I did the story that it was true. Um I had I really struggled with whether or not to even release the story at all. I had talked with my wife about it at the time and and she and I went back and forth. She did not want me to release it. I wanted to. She was like, "This will come after us if you do this." And we actually took it to our pastors and said, "If you guys could read through this script in advance and pray about us, let let us know what you think." And and I basically agreed whatever they whatever they say, if they say this is too risky, don't do it, then I won't. They actually came back and said, "No, we think that you have to, right? You can't not report on this." Uh, and so then of course we had a lot of backlash as a result of it. Um, and and to watch all that happen, look, I went through a lot. Lost my job eventually because of it. Uh, was never able to work in in mainstream news again. But all of those things ended up being huge blessings. Uh, so I'm not really angry about any of it. I think the disappointment for me is that over the course of those 10 years, how many more children were trafficked? How many more kids lives were destroyed? How many more families were destroyed? Because the truth when it was in front of the public and able to be seen on an internet level really that technologically for the first time people could really dig into this stuff was ignored so that this could continue. Not so that people wouldn't go to jail for what they had previously done, but also so that they could continue to act this way with impunity. And it went on for another 10 years.
>> Right. And it's still happening as people in our chat room are pointing out and we've said it here on the show that this is active, right? This is >> New York Times. >> There's no evidence. It's not. >> Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.
>> No, there's no there's no evidence that that is it has stopped. The only thing I think is interesting, you know, I know you guys had Liz uh on your show yesterday and I was listening to that and she and I actually um did a live stream together last week and agree on this point that if you look through those those Epstein emails, if you go back to the Podesta emails of Pizzagate, the terms of pizza and hot dog, the terminology that was used um actually disappeared after 2016. They you you'll see a sharp drop. And I think it's because of the fact that people like myself and Liz exposed the terminology. Again, it wasn't new terminology and it wasn't exclusive to Podesta or to Epstein or to anyone in their circles, right? This is stuff that since 2007 the FBI had memorandum on saying this is how pedophiles communicate with each other on Tor browsers and on the dark web and this is how they communicate chat rooms. Uh, they use this coded language. Well, all of a sudden after 2016, 2017, they're not using that language anymore. And what I keep trying to emphasize to people is it's not because they stopped. They just changed tactics. They just shifted how they were communicating. And so now we have to relearn the language, I guess, to figure out where they are and what they're doing.
>> Right? I mean, these rats, these rats run into other holes now. And now it's incumbent upon investigative journalists like yourself to ferret this, you know, ferret this out and track them. Well, don't you hate when people say, "I told you so." Yeah, that's me, actually, because I I did tell you. Sorry, but I told you that gold and silver were going to reap the benefits of excessive money printing, the Fed just printing money like crazy. Overvalued markets, global unrest. It's here. It's happened. Gold and silver have both soared to all-time highs. So, I hope you called our friends at Lear Capital and you bought some. If you didn't, trust me, it's not too late. Experts are predicting even higher prices ahead. And they get it. They know what's coming. Isn't it time, folks? Get yourself some gold and silver today. Call the best in the business. I personally use them. So does Natalie. We both do. And our kids do as well in their IRAs. Lear Capital. It's a free phone call. There's no obligation to purchase. Just education information on protecting and growing your wealth with gold and silver. I'm sure there are many of you that have called and haven't purchased yet for whatever reason. Don't make the same mistake twice. Now is the time to get some gold shipped directly to you or shift some dollars in your retirement accounts over to physical gold and silver. It's easy to do. Natalie and I have done it for both and I've been extremely satisfied with Lear's knowledge, their service, their prices. I urge you to call today and learn more. Call them 1-800-613-3557 or go to Learredacted.com and you can receive up to $20,000 in free bonus medals with a qualified purchase.
I just want to put this up on the screen here. Take a look at this, Ben. So, you worked at CBS, right? CBS News. That was an owned and operated station in in in Atlanta, if I'm not mistaken. Correct me if I'm wrong. Right. So, CBS corporate >> was owned by Meredith at the time.
>> Oh, Meredith. Okay.
>> So, just if you look today, this is CBSNews.com right now. Of course, the main focus is is Savannah Guthrie's mom, right? There is zero mention, zero mention on CBS News here about anything Epstein related. More top stories. More top stories. No, nothing about Epstein. Nothing about Epstein. Does that surprise you?
>> It doesn't surprise me. And honestly, the truth is it doesn't even matter, right? Because CBS is a failed organization, ABC, NBC, they're failed news organizations. People don't go to their news for them anymore. The number one news app in the world, you guys know what it is. It's X. That's where everybody goes to get their news. And so, it doesn't even matter. the the mainstream news organizations aren't just to the point now where they're dinosaurs. They're extinct. Uh, they're they're printing for themselves and and people who live on the upper east side of New York. That the American public, the global public is not getting their news and their information from them. And that's why I think when you go on and I'm sure it's true in your feeds as well, when you go on X, what do you see? Every single post is Epstein. Uh, the the administration's working very hard to try to change the subject on this and they want to move on from it. um for various reasons. Um, but I would say it's impossible, right? Because if you look at how the the news cycle was being driven on X versus how it's being driven in any other place, it's pretty incredible to see that the the public and content creators are not letting this thing go. And as a result, we're actually seeing so much more information come out every single day because people are digging in. You mentioned 911 times, right, pizza was mentioned. Well, the latest thing we're working on, I'm actually releasing a report about this today, is on the cannibalism part of it, which was a very small part of the original Pizzagate story, but now we see it kind of prevalent in the Epstein files. Jerky is the term they seem to be using uh in the Epstein files, but jerky itself comes up over 311 times in the Epstein files. Who talks about jerky this often? and and with again winky faces and little, you know, oneliners and Jeffrey's furious because he's out of he's out of jerky. Can you bring him some? You know, and and he's having jerky flown to him constantly in these emails. I mean, if the guy has such a hankering for beef jerky, it's not that hard to get. Why Why do you is it require specialized people flying to you and to your island in order for you to access jerky? So, we're really looking into that. But I got to tell you that is where this story for a lot of people is almost impossible to digest because we go from child sex trafficking for 10 years was hard for people to imagine. I think the most of the public has accepted on some basic level that this was in fact happening. But then when you start to say, but that also includes not just sex trafficking. We're also talking about torture and children who were caged and locked up and cannibalism. We're talking about emails that that discuss breeding programs to breed children to put them on the black market. Right? the level of depravity and satanic ritualism that is involved in this. It's another it may take another 10 years for the public to be able to actually accept that this is real. But these are the people the most powerful people in western society.
>> Another Can I just say one other on the word thing because something I've been looking into and maybe Ben you can run with this as well. I've just been looking into this and very curious that the word muffin keeps coming up.
>> Uh it's very strange. So, I started going through all of these emails where they're talking about muffins and >> Jeffrey's angry, you know, he he's back to eating muffins now. He's back to eating muffins. I'm going to fly some muffins in for you. Like, it's just so No one talks like this. It's just so strange. Anyway, sorry to interrupt. It's just that's when you talking about the jerky and now muffins and what other words aren't we even thinking of that we need to run a search on?
>> Well, that was actually my exact question is I was surprised when Liz said yesterday, these are known code words. They have been for a long time. And of course that makes sense because drug dealers use code words. And of course that's the FBI's job and the CIA to decode them so that they know right now. They have to know what the new code words are. We don't. Will it be another decade before we find out? That's that's the part that's so infuriating. I guess that's not a question, but um I'll let you respond.
>> Well, no. I think there is a question in there. And I would say it's difficult to know whether or not the FBI would know what some of these are because again if we're talking about since Pizzagate and if if people like Epstein and his circle and people like Wexner and and and the people who are in these circles who were discussing you know child sex trafficking and child pornography and and the assault of children using pizza words and they suddenly say, "Hey guys, we can't talk this way." Do they invent their own? One of the reasons that the FBI was able to do this is because there are many different kinds of networks that are involved in child trafficking and human trafficking. We all know that, right? Right.
>> And so those networks operate, you know, you'll have some which will be the the 4chan, 8chan guys who were on Tor browsers sharing videos back and forth. That's a very different crowd than the people that Epstein's dealing with. He's not dealing with the guy who's in his basement, you know, in Virginia someplace who's sending something to overseas. That's not who he's dealing with. He's dealing with a very different group. They're all using the same language because this became established language at some point. But did after Pizzagate broke and after their codes were out in the public, did did different groups isolate themselves and begin to create their own language that's not in the broader uh lexicon that the FBI would be able to tap into? And I think there's a very strong possibility it's not that that that the terminology that Epstein would be using, whether it's again jerky or this word muffin, may not show up in other places. So there actually may not be an already established point of why are they using this word? And so it may take decoding through the emails, but also hopefully at some point arrests uh and and conversations with these men who are involved in this and women who are involved. By the way, I'm also a little frustrated with the fact that we keep talking about all the men. It's not just men. If you look at these emails, even within the small number of of unredacted names we've seen, Epstein had a circle of women around him who including Ghislaine Maxwell, but others who were recruiting girls and who were abusing girls and who were moving them through these networks. So it is a group of men and women who were deeply involved in this and did they create their own language and and how do we discover that? So it is a process.
>> Right and even like the women who were actively bringing the women uh the masseuses from Turkey and from the spa to Epstein island and facilitating all of that. You're absolutely right about that. Can I just ask you a journalism question here and you don't have to reveal sources or anything. Just curious in that month that you were grappling with releasing this story and you were talking with your wife and your pastor and everything. The story we were being told publicly was one thing, but obviously you were dealing with sources behind the scenes and working on this story deeply. Was there like a moment or a few moments where you said, "Oh my god, this is real. These this specific point stood out that you included in your report that validated it for you from a journalism perspective."
>> Yeah, there were two things that happened. One was I was able to get in touch with self-proclaimed uh pedophiles who were operating on 4chan and 8chan.
>> Wow.
>> Who were the ones who first flagged Podesta's emails, right? The the John Podesta emails that discuss pizza did not get flagged because people on the internet said, "He sure mentions pizza a lot. Wonder if that has to do with child pornography." It wasn't. It was self-proclaimed pedophiles on 4chan and 8chan who started messaging and saying, "Has anyone noticed that in the Wikileak dump of John Podesta's emails? He's using the language we use. That's how we talk."
>> So, I I was able to get in touch with some of those guys and and communicate with them about the language they use and why they use it. You know, cheese pizza, CP, child pornography. It's the acronyms is is how it originated and that's what they originated.
>> That's what CP comes from. Then once they had established that one, all the other words, whether it's sauce, uh, hot dog, uh, just pizza in general, those words all came out of the original, right? So then they use those based on anatomy and all that.
>> Wow. But once I had that, do you completely trust that? No. Well, obviously you're talking to the, you know, some of the most depraved people and deviants. They had no reason to lie. But do you trust it fully? No. But then the next step and where it really was this is absolutely real was when I was able to then go back and verify through 2007 and I'm the first person to ever put this on television. The 2007 FBI unredacted unclassified documents that not only showed the the use of this language, but also the actual symbols, the boy lover, girl lover symbols, pedophile symbols that existed. And what we started to find were different bands that were incorporating these symbols into their music or into the pizza places that were in question. It was in their logos. That's not coincidental, right? That that that you start to see all these things connecting. And you guys know from a from a journalistic perspective, you go into a story never expecting to know what the outcome is if you're going to actually follow a story, but you follow it wherever it takes you. And when you start to go down those those roads and everything is clicky, it just it makes sense at a certain point, you say you can second guess yourself and say this can't be real. But if if it looks like it, smells like it, walks like it, talks like it, at some point you have to just put it out and say this is where it is. Prove me wrong. Show me where it's wrong. And one of my my big conclusion in that original story 10 years ago was at the end of the day, law enforcement has not investigated it. That's the biggest frustration. And by the way, that's where we are again.
>> Right.
>> Right now investigating it.
>> Covering it up, you know, and then calling Thomas Massie, you know, theatrical or calling him a Trump derangement syndrome instead of actually investigating this. Yeah. It's just it's incredibly infuriating.
>> Leon Leon Black, who is the head of Apollo, that that massive firm, right? He comes up in those Epstein files multiple times talking about, you know, having accused of having sex with 16 year olds and then girls as young as seven and eight and that he had used toys and and caused bleeding. I mean, it's very graphic stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> Why is he not right now being questioned by the FBI? Why is he right now not sitting in a room being interrogated and being charged? Because I understand some of this stuff is very old stuff. I don't know what the statute of limitations are on it. I don't know how much evidence there is, but there's a lot of evidence that would at least require you to go and sit him down and to interrogate him. And nothing's happening. Doesn't matter if the names are redacted or unredacted at this point. Les Wexner, who's coming after this guy, who's interviewing him today? It's not happening. And that's the biggest problem. And and I just want to point out for anybody who thinks, you know, that Thomas Massie's grandstanding when Pam Bondi says, "Yeah, there's 3,000 emails with Les Wexner's name." You found one that wasn't unredacted. The one he found that wasn't unredacted was the most important document out of those 3,000.
>> The word co-conspirator,
>> FBI said he's a co-conspirator.
>> Very important, I would say.
>> Oh, I lost my I lost it over that. Here's something that's new to me also. I had not I think a lot of this was scrubbed from the internet around the time your report was to was the bit about Wayfair ordering Wayfair furniture specifically. There's one in which Jeffrey Epstein orders Wayfair furniture to the house of Woody Allen. Now Wayfair is known for affordable cheap furniture. I didn't think billionaires sent each other cheaper
>> furniture items like this
>> wicker. And so the theory is
>> that these are pieces of furniture that contain humans for the purposes of trafficking. Um have you been able to validate that? What do you know about that that's new to me?
>> Well, I mean the story it was a little bit after Pizzagate. It was probably like 2019 2018 2019 when the Wayfair scandal broke. So the the concept was that Wayfair would be cheap furniture and it was, you know, cabinets and and dressers, things like that. But suddenly there would be one or two items that would show up on Wayfair's website for ridiculous pricing. Like you suddenly you think you're on Restoration Hardware, right? It's like it would be a file cabinet or a a closet like portable closet for $26,000 for $35,000. and and people started saying, "Why does Wayfair, you know, everything else is like $2.99?"
>> And then they have like a $30,000 wicker uh cabinet. And so the the theory began began that they were actually putting kids in these because they would also name them and then people started matching like missing kids names to the names of these products. Is there any evidence that any of this is true? No. There's I have not found any evidence that Wayfair was involved in human trafficking, was trafficking kids, had kids in those cabinets. There's no proof of it. However, it it got a whole bunch of renewed interest because, as you pointed out, rightly Natalie, all of a sudden, you find out Jeffrey Epstein ordered an $8,000 cabinet and sent it to Woody Allen.
>> Yeah.
>> From Wayfair.
>> And Woody Allen's a good And Woody Allen's a good guy,
>> right?
>> He's right.
>> No. And Sununu is here thanking him for the update. Like, okay. You know, we I've been we're going to be eating outside. You know, we need this
>> outdoor furniture. So, okay. Thank you. They couldn't they couldn't get it any other way.
>> You had to get it from Jeffrey Epstein.
>> It had to come from Jeffrey Epstein. And it it came from Wayfair. Again, this is where you so the clever part of what they've done over the course of these these many years is they have been committed to their coded language and committed to kind of hiding things in plain sight because you sound like a crazy person when you're like Wayfair is shipping children around the world to pedophiles, right? They're being used in this way. That sounds crazy. But if and I'm not saying they are for the record, but when you suddenly see that in fact Jeffrey Epstein was buying Wayfair furniture at ridiculously high prices and shipping it to known pedophiles because he himself was a known pedophile and then sent it to Woody Allen who's a pedophile. And you all of a sudden see this happening. You say it,
>> am I the crazy one for asking the question? Am I crazy for thinking this is real?
>> Right? And then they'll gaslight you, right?
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, can you imagine just accidentally ordering like a really expensive piece of furniture from there and it shows up and they're like, "Actually, you're not part of the program, so we can't actually make this delivery."
>> And then the question is, has anybody at Wayfair been interviewed by the Justice Department?
>> Right. Yeah.
>> Has the Justice Department ever bothered to look? And listen, if I'm in the FBI and somebody calls me and says Wayfair is shipping kids around in in wicker closets, I'd be like, "That's okay. No, next. Let's move on to the next thing." But but to your point, Clayton, and actually this is would make sense if you were doing this in that the people, not disparaging anyone, but the people who shop on Wayfair will never accidentally buy a $26,000 cabinet,
>> right? Because you're shopping, you can't afford a $26,000 cabinet. So the if you if you were again hiding in Restoration Hardware furniture, you might accidentally send the kid to the wrong person. But in this case, pretty good chance that the only people who are going to buy the ridiculously priced product on Wayfair know what they're buying, right? Is that what's happening?
>> Look, the Justice Department picks up on weirder things. There was a whole documentary on how they prosecuted the McDonald's monopoly scandal. Like they do that's not crazy to someone was they got that was from an anonymous tip and it turned out to be a real thing. So you know children inside cabinets maybe maybe to just follow the trail. If it's cold it's cold but look into it maybe.
>> Yeah. And that's what I think is the biggest issue is there is no case file on any of this stuff.
>> Yeah.
>> There's no case file in the FBI on Pizzagate.
>> No. They'd rather go after Catholics. I mean that's I mean honestly that's what you're dealing with the Obama Biden years in the FBI. And by the way is something we've talked about with our friend of the show Kyle Sarapin. I mean the rot is still deep inside of the FBI. You know you might have Dan Bongino and a few of these other people that go in there. The whole the whole thing is just uh rotten right needs to be completely leveled and brought down to the ground. So they don't have any interest in they've been helping to facilitate all of this. It's been run through the State Department for crying out loud.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah. It's all to me that's what's so deep state.
>> Go ahead, Phillip.
>> Well, what's what's so damn frustrating to me and just like is it's not like people are asking them to go I mean yes go back and investigate these crimes that happened but this is still ongoing like in in protecting the people that are named th those people are still operating business as usual.
>> Yeah. So like in in not investigating these people, they're perpetuating it.
>> Like Tara Roas, friend of the show, Tara Rous, who's a Health and Human Services whistleblower, um I think HHS. Yeah. And she, you know, blew the whistle exactly on these operations of ferrying these children around the United States for this illicit trade. And it's still happening right now under Trump. Like it's still going on because these NGOs and all of it, the billions of dollars, and I guess that's who we're protecting right now, Ben. I mean, that's why you lost your job for asking these questions and doing real journalism.
>> Well, yeah, and and as you pointed out, it's it takes on a lot of different forms. There's a whole uh set of investigations that need to happen over Haiti when the Clinton Foundation got involved there and a lot of kids went missing at that time. Uh the the John of God, he comes up in the Brazilian guy that was Oprah's guru for a while. Remember this guy? Uh he was apparently running kids through Zorro Ranch, Epstein's Zorro Ranch. That's all in these files as well. We see so many different avenues through which this is all happening and again who's investigating any of it. And I I you know I know you said like you see people like Bongino and Patel. I mean Cash Patel has been probably the biggest disappointment as FBI director that he possibly could have been on this issue because he talked about this issue >> a lot before becoming FBI director. And so I think people like me had a lot of hope that looks you're going to get Cash in there and he's going to go after these people and then he just denies it's even happening. So it makes you wonder too >> that there is a level to this that we're not understanding. There is a deeper level than just powerful people um that is paralyzing uh I think otherwise good people who have gotten into those positions who just they don't even know what to do with it. So they just pretend it's not happening. And I don't know how you can go to sleep at night pretending it's not happening.
>> Right. As David Icke points out and pointed out on our show a few weeks ago, I mean, it's all being run by this really nefarious cabal that's way bigger than all of these people. Um, and uh, you know, Jeffrey Epstein is not >> he's just a ring piece of it. Yeah, exactly.
>> Absolutely.
>> Ben Swan, great to have you on the show for the first time. I can't believe we've never our schedules have never aligned to have you on, but we'd love to have you back and continue the great work. Um, and God bless you for your the work that you're doing uh to try to expose all of this. Thank you so much.