The DOWNFALL of RUSLAN KD

shouldn't partner with DA liars who by the way have docs David Woods family. Uh >> nobody partnered with DA. You see this lie? The question was can I agree to a person's proposition? And this liar just reframed it as partnering with Dawa. So I hope he pays attention to all the [ __ ] that he says because if this ever blows up like those are like serious characterizations. Partnering with Dawa. Partnering. >> Yeah. >> Agreeing with the proposition is not partnering. and RSON, if you think that's going to hold up in court, you got another thing coming, dog.

So, now what came out is if you are not willing to have an opinion on every single theological issue to disclose your denomination. >> No. If it's you're not able to have a basic statement of what I'm supposed to go to as a Christian, again, this dude is such a liar. He reframes and reccharacterizes everything in the exact opposite of what actually happened. The question was, "You can't tell me a basic Christian position on sotiology as a Protestant after 20 years of apologetics." It wasn't, "Can you have a definite opinion on everything?" So again, he's lying and mischaracterizing. The Orthobos had the worst week. Are you sure about that? Did you mean to say? I'm just going to assume that you misspoke. The Orthros had the worst week ever actually coming out of this entire >> So this dude's strategy is to just triple down on everything being bad for him, losing everything, losing every battle. He can't even win a rap battle as a supposed rapper. And he's his strategy is to quadruple down that the Ortho Bros are losing when Relon is over here at synagogues that actually circumcised Young Dawn, right? turned him into no dong. Young Dong got circumcised to this dumbass scam synagogue because ruse run and god logic sent him there and then became an atheist out of all this. And here's rerun this is we had the worst week ever because ruse run I figured out that rulon everything Relon is saying is the problems that he's going through. Right? If the ortho bros are doing XYZ it's what Relon's doing. Right? So Rouslon had the worst week is how to translate that because remember he was just at the synagogue preaching on the Coke Pepsi schism from a laptop in a gym.

>> Can you guys imagine how that worked out? Didn't work out very well. So launching New Coke 1985 a semi- sweeter recipe that was more similar to Pepsi. However, New Coke was such a disaster. It almost caused Coca-Cola the soda wars. And this is why is because there was three categories of people that these folks were looking at. They had the advocate Coca-Cola drinkers. Then they had the neutrals. And then they had the people that were completely opposed.

>> So Bale's. >> So there you go. It's over for the Ortho Bros. We got shut down by Rap Church. We saw that Ruse runs rap church charges $2,000 for counseling on how to church plant. $2,000 to talk to his grift pastor at rap church on how to plant a church. We saw that this week. At every angle, at every turn, these people are making absolute fools of themselves. But it's the worst week the Ortho Bros have ever had. Even though we just showed, Andrew just showed that David Wood can't even say what the solas are and if he believes the five solas. 20 years of apologetics and he can't say basic Protestant theology positions and if he holds to them as a Protestant evangelical apologist.

>> God, logic, Muhammad, hijab situation. And let me give you guys a bit of the backstory, how I'm loosely involved in some of this, how they're attempting to put out fires by going on every single >> By the way, this dummy is the cause of all of this. So, he's leaving out the fact that he admitted in his other video that he was wrong to pit two apologists against a catechum. So, he admitted the whole thing that everything started from that it was all his fault

>> platform. Basically, in the last week, uh, there's been all sorts of infighting between Orthobo apologists. If you guys don't know who or Bro, are they kind of distinct? Actually, there's been no infighting with orthobro apologists. Every Orthob bro and orthobro apologist is on the same page here. So, I guess he just misspoke there.

>> From Eastern Orthodox folks who are generally very pleasant and very chill. Um, they are way more rigid in their thinking and like think of like the Westboro Baptist but with like Eastern bells and swells. Okay. Uh, so literally Ortho Bros are equivalent to Fed Phelps and the insane cult of uh the Baptist. Uh, he knows that's not true, which is it's not even a even remotely close analogy. So basically, because we have the same theology as the first thousand years of the church, Relan is saying that the Westboroough Baptist Church is what the first thousand years of Christianity was like. That's how dumb this idiot is. That's essentially what he's saying cuz he thinks that orthob bros who are really just normal orthodox people stating normal orthodox theology which anybody can go look to see if it is the case. We're equivalent to Fed Phelps and the Westboroough Baptist Church. Ironically, it's these people who send people to weirdo synagogues like this that tell people to get circumcised and not eat pork today. So in his mind to go to a Judaizing sect where he preaches that's normal Relanianity. But Orthodox Christianity is like Westboro Baptist Church to this idiot. And this dude is making himself into the biggest clown on the internet. Dude, easily making himself into it. The same guy whose whole open admitted approach is a marketing scheme.

>> It up and more people. When you drop something that's scarce, you're leaning on scarcity. Limited edition, there's only a few of it. It drives the value and the hype of it up and more people engage. Okay, so that is something else. In a strategic collaboration, you can use scarcity to drive the perceived value of

>> Now, let's also remind you guys that according to this idiot who sends people to this synagogue where you supposed to get circumcised, and they circumcised Young Dawn, made him Young Dong, and then he became an atheist. That's normal Christianity to ruse. Why? Because they don't teach exclusivism. But guess what? What have we seen all week long? Turns out inspiring philosophy, God logic, ruse run, Gavin, Gavin Ortland, Wes Huff, they are exclusivists. What? Yes. Turns out they are exclusively dogmatic that you can't be exclusivists. So that's a version of exclusivism, dummies. You all say that you can't go to a church that teaches that it's the true church. So you have to teach that all the churches are the true church. You idiots. That's another version of you're the true church. It's just an accumulist version of it, dummies. This is how stupid these people are. Let me remind you, this is the person that's telling you about the true church. This idiot.

>> 100,000 on TikTok, two two 300,000, 500,000. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean?

>> How do I monetize these people?

>> That's who you're going to for Christianity here. This idiot, this is his pastor.

>> Um, his pastor teaches entire sermons on how to be a good tither. and they can spot right away if you're not going to be a good tither. Right there. Some people in here that are like, "Well, um I tried to tithe and uh I couldn't afford to tithe or I I did the tithe and um I still like I still was broke." And I'd say um a bad budgeter will be a broke tither. So these this uh uh rap church has already got it all mapped out as to whether or not they're interested in having you in terms of whether you're going to be able to tithe or not. That's what that that's the decoding that uh marketing speak right there. Right. Okay. So, you're not able to do the 10% tithe, which according to average income of San Diego is $10,000 a year. Um maybe you need to go over there to the Cholo church. Dude, we're looking for we're looking for uh tithers that can actually make bank, bro.

Now, it's a bad week for the Ortho Bros. But David Wood can't even say if he knows Christian theology right enough to say or well enough to say what his positions are. Well, guess what, David? How do you how do you know that your anti-Islamic reasoning was good enough by that same standard?

>> Well, leading up to me becoming a Christian, everything just it broke down, right? It's like I was completely convinced of all these things and I was completely totally wrong. I concluded basically don't I can't trust myself that much. I can't trust my reasoning. Um I feel I feel like a constant [ __ ] Now when I'm around really stupid people, I'll start feeling like a genius. But um I'm always I'm always in the I'm always in the thought mode that like you know if this is everything that if this like if there's a circle with like everything that can be known, I know like that what I actually know is like one tiny insignificant dot of that. So if David Wood can't rest on his own reasoning when it comes to do you believe that the basics of evangelical Protestant theology 20 years into this he doesn't know his answer is I can't trust my own reasoning which is all false humility because David Wood is an admitted narcissistic psychopath admittedly. So he's saying that to play to the audience who he thinks are a bunch of idiots uh that oh it's just humility this which is why he can't say if he believes the reformation distinctives. However, how do you trust your reasoning about anti-Islamic apologetics for 20 years? So, this is all such a bunch of nonsense. Like, these people have all been exposed as don't no actual concern for Christian theology, church history, any of that. It's literally just the anti-Islamianity grift. Go to whatever church you want, but just don't say there's an exclusivist church. And by the way, we're exclusivist about that. What's up, Jim Bob?

>> Yo, what's going on?

>> Welcome, bro.

>> Yeah, thank you. I just wanted to add in there that, you know, if he felt like he couldn't really lean into his own reasoning and he feels stupid most of the time,

>> it would make sense to be around Muslims to make yourself feel a little bit better. But we're starting to understand that like, well, dude, you can get you could be given a script and refute Islam. The problem that you've been pointing out, and I'm trying to echo it here, is once you get a Muslim person thinking about leaving Islam, the last thing you want to do is just give them a Bible and say, "Good luck, dude. Good luck reading the Bible." It's like, especially a Muslim. Like, I don't understand how he can't see that as as a as a fair contention.

>> He knows that, but like he's doing whatever he can to save face. And that's why um he's literally just now supposedly learning what the distinctions between Protestants, Catholics, and evangelicals. How do you how do you apologize for 20 years? You don't know those basics. But Jim Bob, any comments?

>> Yeah, I mean something that's just kind of funny is that if they're arguing for like this pluralism, it would have to include orthodoxy. Um first of all, second of all, they they really want want to isolate on this thing called an orthob so they don't really have to contend with orthodoxy. Um, I keep seeing this over and over again talking about orthodoxy and then they're like, "Yeah, but then the ortho bros." And I'm like, "Dude, you guys have to deal with this this contention. Are you arguing for Christianity or not? And if so, you got to deal with uh what what's the true church?" And if you say everything is, then you shouldn't have a problem with Orthobros at all anyway. You shouldn't even have a problem with them. They're just another church, right? Just another subsect of a church, right? That's it. We should be included, right?

>> Yeah. But that's the point is that you the only thing that excludes you is orthodox exclusivity because their version of exclusivity is just uh accuminism. You have to you have to be accuminist. Now, let's let's see an example of this.

>> Here's God Logic again. He's got the opportunity to share uh real stuff with whoever this black dude is, Larae, whoever that is. Let's see.

>> Jesuit Catholic >> or Roman Catholic, whatever. just I'm a Catholic.

>> Yeah.

>> Are is that a no for you or

>> It would it would depend on the extremism. Like if there if you're run into like this is with any denomination. If you're running into one that's saying that you know uh if you're not part of this church or this denomination, you are hellbent.

>> Okay.

>> That red flags.

>> Yep.

>> But they are they are extremists. They are extreme accuminists who say that if you aren't an accuminist about the church, right? Then you are a rigorous crazy orthob bro. You're a cult. So they're just doing the same standard with their ecummenism. Do they don't see this? Of course not. There is no churchless apologetic as we've been saying. And over and over and over these guys when they're on the biggest platforms giving the so-called gospel to it's the same repeat with Young Dawn. They all told young dawn, "Oh, you would really want to serve Jesus. Come out of your Baptist church and come to this Messianic synagogue where we're going to circumcise you." That's what these retros. On what basis is it mean to tell people that there is one true church and that it's not the Messianic Synagogue with Mexican uh rabbi rappers? All right, let's play some Arusean and then uh Jim Bob, feel free to comment.

>> So, they were initially upset at God Logic. Okay, follow along for a second. They were upset at God Logic because God Logic did a live stream that then redirected to his second channel which is ran by his friend Life, which then redirected to JP's live stream where at some point JP was speaking to uh an inquirer of Eastern Orthodoxy and then they uh were talking him out of becoming Eastern Orthodox now. And the God Logic dude was in the chat cheering on the gaslighting of the Inquirer.

>> AP started doing all of this probably about a month ago. JP Mhler, uh, Alton, a bunch of different channels because all this vitriol was hurled at me when I said, "Hey, I'm not going to debate Jay Dyer and I'm not going to dedicate a bunch of time to this sort of stuff."

>> No, the vitriol was at you because you admittedly made a mistake. You said I should not have had the Inquirer on the stage. That's why it was after you. So again, he reframes it and leaves out the actual reason as to why everybody got mad at him. And also, if you admitted that you were wrong, why didn't you bring that back up, right? And by the way, the vitriol against you in terms of the other stuff had to do with your stupid ass attitude of flexing your channel in everybody's face. And also uh assuming that No, the the other thing was that you said four times you would debate and then you backtracked on it. That's another thing. So what happened was because this entire thing happened, Jay Dyer then agreed with a Da dude, a Muslim da dude who said that God Logic is a grifter. Okay, now this is an accusation often heard by the Eastern Orthodox. Now everyone is a grifter. Okay, so God Logic is a grifter. Uh

>> no, you're grifters because you run Money Church where you ask for $10,000 from your congregants and $2,000 to talk to your fake rap pastor for one hour on how to church plant. Jim Bob, anything? Uh yeah, I think they just have to understand what we're what we're saying when you say a grifter like we're pointing to specific things and and most importantly you're say people who say hey I'm a Christian I'm pointing you to Christianity but when we ask what is it they don't have an answer they're basically selling something they don't have

>> they're using the Peter Ducker model of no dogmas and inclusivity that is the pre Peter Ducker church plant church selling model and here's another one of these goobers with God logic, right?

>> Jesus save people in the Greek Orthodox Church. But um I think the next question you got to ask is does Jesus save people in the Greek Orthodox Church or should you adopt solos scriptorra solid solar gratia solosis solely de Gloria we should move on.

>> So he's saying that the Greek Orthodox church doesn't have the solas so it's not a true church. So they can say we're not a true church. See the hypocrisy there. This guy says

>> I think the next

>> you're not a true church because you don't have the solas. That's exclusivist doctrines, dude. So, and God Logic's just sitting there. Let him say it. He doesn't even say anything. But God Logic tells the other people if you teach an exclusivist doctrine, that's the problem. Well, your co-host is teaching it right there, dude. What are you talking about?

>> Yeah. What we what we're trying to get them to do is we want them to be more clear on exclusivity. That's what we're challenging David Wood on. We If you say you're Christian, what we're saying is that's an exclusive claim to be Christian. What does it mean? Can you can you put your positive position up against our positive position? David Wood seems to think that means, "Oh, I now I have to attack uh now I have to attack Eastern Orthodoxy and figure out the arguments against it." That's actually not even what we're asking. We're asking you to just tell us what you believe. You couldn't even do it when Andrew was on. So, I I don't know what I don't know what they're thinking this avenue is. We just want them to make their positive case. But like you said, their positive case is plural, like a pluralism, a humanism.

>> Relon says, "Now, now everyone is a grifter." No, specifically you and David Wood are grifters. Now this and this is why

>> when you drop something that's scarce, you're leaning on scarcity. Limited edition, there's only a few of it. It drives the value and the hype of it up and more people engage. Okay, so that is something else. In a strategic collaboration, you can use scarcity to drive the perceived value of what you're

>> ron charges $500 to $1,000 to talk to him in person. And he's saying now every I'm serious. Now everybody's a griff. No, you dude. You dummy.

>> Then later Andrew Wilson uh who had a 5 hour live stream with David Wood, which is utterly insufferable, playing games and word salad around.

>> No. Uh David Wood was the one playing games cuz he wouldn't commit to a position after 20 years of apologetics. So you and your stupid ass broccoli head retelling of the story we all know is [ __ ] day one.

>> Presuppositions when you should or shouldn't partner with DA liars who by the way have doxed David Woods family.

>> Yeah. Nobody partnered with Dawa. You see this lie? The question was can I agree to a person's proposition and this liar just reframed it as partnering with Dawa. So, I hope he pays attention to all the [ __ ] that he says because if this ever blows up, if this ever becomes something s like those are like serious characterizations. Partnering with Dawa, partnering.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Agreeing with the proposition is not partnering. And Rouslon, if you think that's going to hold up in court, you got another thing coming, dog.

>> God logic, I think his wife just like really bad faith actors from this whole thing. Okay. And so now that what came out is if you are not willing to have an opinion on every single theological issue to disclose your denomination,

>> no. If it's you're not able to have a basic statement of what I'm supposed to go to as a Christian. Again, this dude is such a liar. He reframes and reccharacterizes everything in the exact opposite of what actually happened. The question was, you can't tell me a basic Christian position on sotiology as a Protestant after 20 years of apologetics. It wasn't, can you have a definite opinion on everything? So again, he's lying and mischaracterizing it.

>> To debate them upon their prompting, debate me or you're gay. hate me or you're gay. To date me or you're gay. You shouldn't even be doing apologetic.

>> Dude, you agreed to the debate, dummy. You're the one that said four times you would debate and then said, "No, I'm not going to."

>> He says it. He says it in this video, too, Jay. At the end, he says, "Well, I'm thinking of debating.

>> You already said I have to publicly repent to you, you gay dude."

>> Okay, this is this is what they're now saying. And in all of this, it's it's awoken an entire community of people to combat their issues. So now they

>> No, it's only awoken a bunch of independent re Baptists to try to find pearl clutching examples of $200 for a baptismal celebration renting out the fellowship hall. That's all it's done.

>> From calling uh God Logic a drifter to getting behind the GoFundMe of God Logic, which is peak irony in all this.

>> No, it's not. It makes perfect sense if you aren't a uh ADIQ. I support god logic against being irrationally sued by uh uh uh you he doesn't understand a person can have nuance in this. I don't want a live streamer to be able to be sued when it was agreed that they could li they could reream the this the the broadcast cuz I'm a live streamer dummy. It affects anyone in the live streaming community because if Muhammad Hijab won that case, it would affect all live streamers,

>> right?

>> And God Logic was correct in that case. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with God Logic's non-exclusivist exclusivity dogmatic accuminist claim, dummy.

>> At the same time, at the same time, uh there was a a scandal that broke out because a girl named Catherine wrote a Substack about dating in the Eastern Orthodox community and pointed out that, you know, a lot of these guys are coming.

>> Here we go. So this dummy of course is going to latch on to some rando unstable woman riding a Substack post as ammo against all the ortho bros when none of these people would just come out and say that they don't like orthodoxy. Although Rouslon did admit that in the previous video remember he was like uh I was open to orthodoxy not so much anymore. He's spilling the beans dude that he just doesn't like orthodoxy. Any comment?

>> Yeah. No, I think you're on to their to the game and everyone kind of knew the game to begin with, but it finally is is finding its head, which is like you guys can't just stay on the fence with broad Christianity. Um, and it's not a good enough excuse to have a business about it. We're going to press you on what you actually believe because you're actually misleading people.

>> Exactly. out of the red pill, manosphere, brain rot. Uh they are dealing with just like basic uh grooming issues and smell issues and they're very demeaning towards women.

>> So hear that. So all the ortho bros don't know how to groom themselves. They don't know how to act. So he just default listened to Catherine who was shown to be a total hypocrite in her post and it's all the ortho bros who don't take shower. Dude, you go to freaking rap church. You got broccoli hair. You wear your stupid godly ambition t-shirts when you preach. Look at your freaking grooming skills, dude. You got a wannabe afro because you wish you were black. I am black. You wish you were me, dude. What you talking about?

>> Not at all that they uh then exposed revenge corn of this poor girl. Okay. Which then divided the online orthobos even more. Or I mean,

>> another lie. No, they didn't.

>> Lie, too.

>> That's another lie. They blacked out the images and the one that was a bikini photo. Uh, so everybody who shows a photo that's a of that's so basically every website with a swimsuit is revenge corn now.

>> Right. Right.

>> This dude is so ret. You see why he put our debate when we were on friendly terms behind the payw wall because I called out about four fallacies when we had our two-hour debate and he put that of course behind the payw wall, right? Because he knows that. And remember he said in his last video, yo, they want to talk about freaking fallacies and all this stuff. I don't care about fallacies. Don't nobody care about fallacies. He thinks fallacies are like just a tactic. It's just word salad according to him.

>> Yeah. For the first time we saw Orthodox finally calling him out. And then this is all the same week, mind you. So they go from God logic is a grifter.

>> Shocker. He sides with the uh mentally unstable feminist to attack the Ortho Bros. Shocker. Right? Don't even know what the story. Don't even know what happened. Just just side with anybody who hates orthobros. Right now notice how different it is from our approach. I debate the Muslims for eight years straight, nine years straight. I agree with one statement of one Muslim. I'm alied with them with them, even though I've opposed and debated them for 10 years. Relon immediately latches on to and goes with and runs with anybody opposed to Orthodox, even schismatic priests like that lunatic they brought on their their their stream. So, do you see the double standard there? how crazy it actually is.

>> Everyone's a grifter. IP is a grifter. Okay. Uh which which is ironic because if everybody's a grifter, then then that word uses all meaning. Okay. Uh

>> no, it's you're a grifter if you can't tell us why or what church we're supposed to go to or what the history of the church is. That's the accusation. It's not just everyone is a grifter. No, you and your allies are griing. That's the accusation, dude.

>> If everyone's a grifter, it's like the word racist, right? Like everyone's racist, then what what is racism, right? You mean like how David Wood and your crowd tries to say that we're all racist with no accusation, with no proof? How can I be racist if I'm black? Exactly.

>> Why? Because they they're not willing to have the debate about the one true church. Okay. This

>> Exactly. All of the smoke and mirror is to avoid the actual theological debate

>> on top of the scandal with this girl riding a Substack talking about dating an Orthodox.

>> Yeah. The scandal is what she caused, dummy.

>> A very reasonable article. Her name's Catherine. That

>> No, it's not. In fact, she was a hypocrite and a lot of it. Who even knows if his name was true? That chick when she first came into the Discord was booted out in 2017 because she was causing problems. Shout out to Kai who sensed this years ago.

>> Revenge Corn that was released of hers is now even being debated within some of these circles and if she should be and and the photos they released were of her like in a bathing suit and then

>> oh well so wait a minute. If it if the ones that were posted were just bathing suits then you just refuted yourself idiot cuz that's not revenge corn dummy.

>> There was actually I guess explicit photo she sent. I don't know. basically they're saying she's a hypocrite for saying anything about dating, which is a very nuanced article. So that happened.

>> Oh, so wait a minute. So that happened. Well, that would undo your previous point, dummy.

>> Okay. And then it's a bunch of screenshots of Eastern Orthodox churches and I think some Catholic churches too seemingly charging for the sacrament of baptism.

>> He already corrected this, dude. He literally corrected this. You corrected this right on his post. Um Chase Haggard corrected this on his post. He knows that these are suggested donations. He knows that not a single one of these churches would say, "No, you can't get baptized. You you got to save up the money." Not not a single one. And he's he he knows it. That's why he says seemingly that means he knows he knows.

>> Yeah. But this is how he can still lie. Right.

>> This is how he can still lie. Exactly. So he's able to lie.

>> A liar.

>> He is a total liar. By the way, here's Relan's own church asking for $10,000 a year from its congregants to be obedient. So Relan's church asked for $10,000 a year. Relon says he's all he wants to do is monetize his audience. This is the dude defending $10,000 a year and complaining about a $200 suggested fee to rent out

>> the

>> to rent out the church fellowship hall. Cleave called these churches and asked them, "Is it $200 to receive the sacrament?" "No, it's $200 to have the party and the fellowship hall."

>> Bro, I got the following. I got 28,000. I got 200,000 on TikTok. Two two $300,000 500,000. How do I monetize these people?

>> This is the dude complaining about a fee to rent a fellowship hall at a he goes to a church that asks for $10,000 a year from its San Diego congregants.

>> Okay, all this all happens in the same week. Now, I didn't cover this last week cuz I was traveling. I was in Florida. Shout out to all my people that came out to the show in Tampa. Probably our best show uh that that we've had over 200 people. So, thank you guys to all came out there. So, in the midst of all this, they are absolutely messing up. So, Andrew Wilson is jumping into any stream he can to to try and, you know, put out the fires. And now this has led David Wood to say, "Okay, so I we're all grifters if we can't debate your one true church." So, David Wood has been doing an onslaught.

>> No, the argument is not you're a grifter because you can't debate one true church. The argument is that after 20 years of apologetics, you can't say whether you believe the Protestant basics or what the right church to send a convert to is dummy

>> of Eastern Orthodox streams uh and engaging with folks who are Eastern Orthodox here and the arguments against it here and the arguments for it prepping for some sort of debate. I'm assuming he's going to have this has other people doing now calling streams uh debating Orthodox inquirers and it's really all kind of culminating in the same week exposing the utter hypocrisy within this ortho community and how

>> where is the hypocrisy? Like the only hypocrisy is everything that you're saying with your church charging $10,000 a year to be a obedient uh church member, dummy. What are you talking about? The he hasn't actually pointed out any hypocrisy. Again, all he has is orthobro bad. That's it. This dude is total he's a paper tiger, dude. He doesn't know what fallacies are, as you saw from my debate with him. He even says, "I don't care about fallacies." And this dummy thinks he's going to debate. It's a joke.

>> Deluded they are. Now I want to draw a clear distinction. I think there's a difference between good faith Eastern Orthodox Christians who

>> No. So this this is not what's going on, right? Because he just means I like any of the fake and gay ortho people who are who won't say that there's one true church, right? That's all this means. Any comment, Jimbo? Feel free to

>> uh No. Yeah, that's it's clear that there's there's basically a protection scheme for a very general uh use of the word Christian as it applies to everything he does, which is performances, merchandise, you know, it's a wider net. And the reality is once you actually argue for the true church and you're a part of the true church, um you you obviously that's not a priority. You you know that's that's something that's going to get hit when you say the truth. It's just how it is. And so they're just protect he especially is just protecting it. He seems like he's protecting like basically a network of people.

>> It is a network and we saw for example that uh David Wood is funded by a a Middle Eastern country. Uh his outfit is and so they might even all just be a giant uh funded griff scheme that's actually political in its orientation maybe even over above anything to do with religion. It might actually just be money that's being put into these groups to promote certain types of non-denominational pro-Zionist types of Christianity.

>> See other Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ. This would seem like a brother named Fearless Truth who believes that hey, if you're a Christian um and you place faith in Jesus, you are a Christian. Though they would prefer you to be a part of the Orthodox church, but he would say, hey, you're still you're still a brother in faith, right? This is someone that's close to God.

>> Yeah. Well, I don't know that Nick actually said that, but that's whether Nick said that or not is still not true. Just because you profess faith in Christ, it doesn't make you a brother in Christianity or in the church. As we saw in the first thousand years of the church, anyone that disagreed with anything in the nino constant creed was not considered within the bounds of Christianity at all. So if you're outside of the nine creed, you're not within quote Christianity. That's the delineator. So whether Nick said that or not, which I don't trust anything Rouselin says, it doesn't matter because it's not true. logic versus folks that are more hardline and they're angry about anyone that's quoteunquote not ecumenical. All right. And this

>> we're not angry. We're just simply calling it out and refuting it. So he thinks we're angry. No, we're angry at all the lies that you tell to try to defend this indefensible position. We're not angry about accuminism. We think that it's the main heresy of our day.

>> Yeah. I would add that um the frustration if anything if they're sensing it is that they're not isolating it and trying to defend it, you know, itself. we just want you to try to defend it. And they're like, "No, we're just going to point out how you guys are flustered and mean and annoyed about us. Uh, but we're not going to actually try to defend this general accuminist view that anybody who says, you know, Jesus Christ is Lord is a Christian and the rest is history." No, we don't. It's never been done that way.

>> Yeah. Just ask these people why a Mormon isn't a Christian if they say Jesus or

>> Jehovah Witness. Yeah.

>> Yeah. They say Jesus is Lord. Well, Mormons are better because Jehovah's Witnesses won't say the Trinity, but a Mormon will say, "I believe in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

>> Sure.

>> So, it's even better with the Mormon example because they have the same propositions, but they had tribute, obviously, different meaning to the propositions, which is the whole point of why you can't be a churchless apologist.

>> This all culminated David Wood stream yesterday, which you guys should all check out, where he points out just some of the utter brain rot that is coming out from these folks and u the memes and and the craziness here. Okay, so check this out.

>> Jay Dyer said, "Cops are enraged. I was skeptical of the ISIS videos 10 years ago.

>> Right. So, because I said, when did this this is a tweet from like they didn't point out that this is a tweet from like eight years ago where I reported on Fox News saying that the video looks staged, right? And then they tried to twist that into they're trying to now get the cops on their side. That's the strategy here because the cops hate us as much as these people hate us. because I went to Fox News and said they are claiming that there's that this video might be manipulated or staged, which is entirely possible when it comes to high-profile war footage or propaganda footage. This footage comes out of sight intelligence run by Rita Catz, which is a Israeli operation. Thus, the skepticism. Now, the debate, the dispute became whether or not we can say the Coptics are Christian martyrs. We can't say that because we don't include people on our calendar outside of the church. When I explained this, I said, "We don't know those people might end up in heaven because in the Orthodox perspective, Christ can join people to his mystical body in extraormative means, but they're not going to be on our calendar." Same reason Thomas Aquinus won't be a on the calendar of the Orthodox Church celebrated as a saint. So this

>> Charlie Kirk or Charlie Kirk. Exactly. So this is the this is the this is so they immediately trying to find any dirt to try to pull up to make us look bad. But when you actually listen to what the situation is, it makes perfect sense.

>> But even the mainstream media doubted them. The second article here refers to the Washington Post. So that was back when he was saying he doubted the uh the executions of the 21 Coptic Christians. And AP replied, he said, "Do you agree the martyrs were actually beheaded?"

>> Okay. So by the way, AP, shout out to AP. AP is actually I guess a cacuman becoming Eastern himself.

>> No, he's not. He uh ran off to Israel and cheated on his wife during his cacumnate and was told multiple times to stop teaching theology and debating on the internet because he's an Israel shill. And he ran from a debate with me on the question of Christian Zionism, right? Just like all of these dudes were run. And notice I even I even explain in my tweet the correct answer. I don't know what actually happened in this situation because I wasn't there. But we don't call them Christian martyrs any more than we would call a Hezbollah leader a martyr. The very point that I was arguing against uh or with Ridbon two years ago. Go ahead. Uh Jamab

>> I just want to add in a recent very recent interview AP also declared he has has been Christian for a year and a half or something which you know um depending on how you communicate that um you know if he's not continuing his his katakesus and he's not in good standing uh and on his way to baptism like I don't understand how you could kind of declare that and and sort of be laring in the interview with his prayer uh uh rope and everything like he's fully involved with orthodoxy. It was it was a [ __ ]

>> I mean, they're all open like open Christian Zionists, which is the very thing that makes them enable to be to become orthodox online people. So, this is who Rouselon has now thrown his uh his his side in. He he's on that side and he doesn't realize that like do you not see that the future of where things are going is not Christian Zionism you dummy. So you're throwing your lot in with these idiots. And again I said spec look I even explained what I'm talking about here. They're not Christian martyrs in the canonical sense of like are we going to put Nazala on the Orthodox calendar because he was a quote martyr for Islam. Of course not. So yeah you just like the word Christian can be used in a generic sense because people are quote all self-identifying loosely as Christian does not mean that we consider them as Christians. So the Coptic martyrs might be publicly considered martyrs but I'm talking about the Orthodox Church and its law its canon law and its canonical lurggical celebrations. We are not going to call Coptic people Christian saint martyrs. And AP says, "Do you believe they're actually

>> dishonest thing here is people would know this and it wouldn't be controversial. You would just be saying, "Yeah, we hold the Orthodox position." They're like Jay and Andrew like or whatever. They're trying to like find people and try to present it like it's controversial, but it's actually not a controversial position from an orthodox position at all. It's actually quite established at this point. But Relon, who obviously doesn't know our theology, he's they're all just this is all to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, low IQ evangelical audience that they're directed towards. And this is to try to get uh uh dumb Coptic people to support them because they don't like us.

>> No martyrs. Now AP pointed out that their own patriarchs I believe Bartholomew uh one of the big patriarchs he's not like the pope but he's up there pointed out on this same stream on David Wood's channel that these folks that are kind of leading the church are more ecumenical and see Protestants and Catholics as distant brothers but still brothers in the faith still

>> yeah the fact that Bartholomew is an accuminist doesn't prove anything dummy that'd be like me saying that well I found a a prominent Baptist pastor who's not an accuminist so I guess that means that Protestants shouldn't be a humanist I mean that's the same that's the equivalence of but Ron is like Ron actually is ret and can't debate. So, I don't know why he thinks that he's going to be able to ever debate when if he ever does a debate, it will be the biggest slaughter in the history of online debates. I hope he actually does it because he is terrible. And even the closest friends to him that know him and that we know all tell him, "Dude, you're not a debater. You're going to get demolished. Even if you go up against Fuentes or Candace, all the people you've been trying to debate." No, by the way, notice this hypocrite wanted to debate Candace and Fuentes for the last two years and then [ __ ] and says, "How come Jay Dyer only wants to debate big channels?" Uh, Captain Crackrock's channel is not bigger than mine. Uh, Billy Baptist that I debated, his channel is not bigger than mine. I don't just debate big channels, but I do want to debate big channels cuz I I believe I could beat all these big dumb dums. That's why, dummy. I I guess you call us heterodox, but within Christendom. Okay, so AB pointed that out. So this is Eastern Orthodox asking uh the the the you know Jay Dyer the cult of this the cult leader of this entire thing and by cult I I don't mean literally cult I just mean the way these guys act is very much

>> No you mean see how he see how he backpedals so fast

>> he backpedals so fast because he's like whoop whoop whoops whoops

>> so we're a cult according to this liar and he tells people to go to a messianic synagogue where they circumcise people. You can't make this up. This is kind of unreal.

>> Yeah. Right. Well, further Jay, he uh you're in a cult, right? You're in a cult leader, but he call he does a call to action for Orthodox priests to go up against you and cancel people away from listening to you.

>> He does a call to action to cancel everybody who's a quote orthob bro. As if Orthodox priests give a [ __ ] what this says.

>> Yeah. And so that's a cult tactic to call everyone because of quote bad behavior to cancel these people. But we're cults because we actually ask people to do public debates. What cult even does public debates? You guys are the ones that run from debate. You guys are the ones that say, "I don't care about logic and fallacies." No cult teaches people basic logic. We do. Duh. We're the opposite of a cult.

>> Like the da bros is very much like the folks who were told don't listen to other arguments. You know, only stay isolated into this little thing.

>> Uh who says don't listen to other arguments. You don't have any arguments. We're waiting for you to present them, dummy.

>> I don't This guy's this guy's a lunatic. Like your point, a cult would would hide from like like Mormonism. They have a very low amount of people that can that even try to defend their faith. They're actually people are like, "Don't do it." You know, just just shut up. let's stay in in our Mormon little town. And uh but Orthodox people who are at least vocal online, we seek the we seek the confrontation. We seek the the examination of both our own view and other view. And we like to compare it like there's nothing you could ever find in a cult that went out into the world and put itself in a vulnerable uh position to weaken its leader. Right. Well, that's a total opposite of orthodoxy.

>> Exactly. And far from hiding the arguments of other people, we are begging you to do a public debate on the issues. This is so [ __ ]

>> And anyone that challenges orthodoxy is a bad person. So he's he

>> no, anybody that challenges orthodoxy should be able to come present the arguments in a debate. This whole stupid hit piece here uh is a um steering of the narrative. So he's just doing like uh media tactics to try to steer the narrative. It's like CNN level stuff. It's nothing to do with like formal debates and because we all know this reader is not

going to formally debate. He says this to Jay Dyer, and this is Jay Dyer's response. Like, do you think it actually happened? Do you agree the murders were actually beheaded?

And Jay says, "I don't know what happened. I don't call them martyrs anymore than I call Hezbollah leaders a martyr."

Yeah. Exactly.

So, they're not martyrs because they weren't martyred for the true church, and they're basically in the same category as Hezbollah jihadis. You wouldn't call them. So, this reader actually thinks that me just stating the orthodox position that we don't have martyrs outside of the church, which means canonically uh received and accepted as saints in the calendar, he thinks that's the same thing as a person who is an independent fundamentalist Baptist cult leader, right? Who says that you have to be in my IFB cult to be saved. By the way, again, we publicly reject the confessions of the heterodox groups. We don't make determinations on individuals' uh salvation. And in the case of these Coptic martyrs, I said "so-called," it's entirely possible that they could be united to the mystical body through baptism of desire, something like that. Baptism of blood. We don't know. But what I do know is that they're not going to be on the Orthodox calendar. That's what I said, and that's what I meant. Of course, they don't know anything about that, and they don't care.

Well, those guys are martyrs because they're outside the church, just like these uh these Copts were.

Okay. Now, this is an important distinction to make because again, within Eastern Orthodoxy, there seems to be some division on this particular issue.

This is also a fallacy, by the way. So, what? Because there are ecumenists in the world of Orthodoxy, this somehow means that, ah, you see, Orthodox, they don't agree, dude. They don't agree. Yeah, but all that shows is that people disagree. That doesn't prove Orthodoxy false. I want to say they've had some councils about this, and I want to say 10 out of the 14 or 15 different, they would say different Orthodox churches, but different, you know, Roman, uh, the Romanians, the Russians, a good chunk of them are actually becoming more ecumenical, that some may even say.

There were some councils about this. What? Where were the ecumenical?

I don't know.

Where, where were the ecumenist councils?

Churches, but different, you know, Roman, uh, the Romanian.

Let's make sure I heard what he said there. Let's go back.

I want to say they've had some councils about this, and I want to say 10 out of the 14 or 15 different, they would say different Orthodox.

So, according to Rouslon, there were some 10 of the jurisdictions that were doing ecumenical councils. Okay. What are those, Rous? What are you even talking about?

Churches, but different, you know, Roman, uh, the.

He probably means the Council of Crete, which was a big failure, didn't go anywhere. That must be what he's talking about.

Romanians, the Russians, a good chunk of them are actually becoming more ecumenical, that some even say they might have their Vatican 2 moment where they.

Uh oh, interesting. I like how he's likening it to Vatican 2, which has proven our point, right? So, if it's like Vatican 2 and it's uh ecumenism, that's actually an argument in our favor because our whole argument is that Vatican 2 departed from the tradition of the church. So, Rouslon is indirectly disproving uh Nova sort of Catholicism too. Did you want to say something, Jim?

Uh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, based on his reasoning, his criterion for for uh division, then pretty much like the entirety of the early church and keeping it in in one piece throughout the ages, he has to say like it was divided the whole time, right? That like he, how could he go back with this argument back to the beginning uh of the church and uh everything that followed? How could he, how could he trust any of that based on this one thing that that people disagreed on stuff? I just don't understand.

Well, again, not only do these individuals themselves not know basic logical fallacies, they actually are trusting as well that emotional appeals will score a lot better with their audience than actual logical argumentation and church history and theology, which is true, right? Exactly. Which is actually true. Yeah. Uh, so from a tactics perspective, uh, this was actually smart of Relan to do this re-level type of appeal because he has a he has an audience. So, here we have, for example, in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, you have the statement, "We confess one holy catholic apostolic church." That's in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed. And when we look at the people who composed that creed, uh, at Constantinople I, if we look at the Cappadocians, then we look at the theology for the succeeding centuries, the way that that was understood was you believe in baptismal regeneration and you believe in a visible institutional entity, the Orthodox Catholic Church, right? And Rome, by the way, agrees. That was the perspective for the first thousand years, right? So, accepting the post-Novus Ordo, the Latin church, even though we think they were in schism, even the Latin papal church up until Vatican 2 agreed that for the first thousand years of the church, yes, it was absolutely the case that there was one visible institutional body that makes up what the one holy, catholic, apostolic church is. Those are the four marks, right? No *rap* church existed. There is no *rap* church that has the four marks.

Acknowledged that folks who are outside the church can still experience salvation. But there are more of these hardliners, and unfortunately, the face of the Ortho Bros are the more hardliners. If you're not Eastern Orthodox, you're not a Christian. You don't have salvation. Okay? So, it's, it's a big mess internally within their own.

So, this is another lie. We never made the determination of individuals that they cannot ever be in some way united to the mystical body. We don't know people's destinies. What we know is that their public confessions in those religions are heterodox, and we have a duty to tell them to become Orthodox. So, but I mean, of course, this dude is not ever going to care about nuance.

Uh, ranks and the overlap with uh the Patriarch in Russia, one of the Patriarchs in Russia who's a billionaire, uh, in business with Putin, has a lot of overlap with the Russian government.

Oh, here we go. And by the way, this explains too why when I went on his stream, he started trying to grill me, implying and insinuating that I had some connection to Russia because I go to Roor. And we got, we, if you saw the podcast that we did, there was this weird section where he suddenly started wanting to defend the Ukraine and why, uh, Putin bad and all this kind of stuff. And I don't care about criticizing Putin. We can make a criticism, who doesn't bother me at all. But he wanted to turn it into a pro-NATO thing, which makes me think, why the hell does this dude care about NATO? But I also recall, I think he had from his Armenian heritage, there is some issue with Russia, which leads to some sort of, I don't know if it goes back to the Cold War or whatever, but then it goes back to, uh, political animosity that his Armenian heritage has with.

Soviets, perhaps? Uh, and that's why he's immediately turning it into, "Okay, if you go watch our podcast, there's a section where he starts trying to defend NATO, and we have about a 10, 20 minute argument about whether or not NATO was the source of the provocation against Russia, which I think that it was." Whe, like I would criticize Putin for example, you know, there's a, he's bringing in his own type of technocratic stuff. Uh, Putin has, um, a too positive attitude of Islam in in terms of Moscow, right? That kind of stuff. That's fine. Make those criticisms, but how does that make me somehow, uh, you know, linked to Russia or tied to Russia? So, these liars are going to keep doing the same old thing that they've always tried to do. By the way, when Ridvon converted supposedly immediately, what did he do? Start defending the Ukraine. Remember when he told Father Michael Liil and Father Whiteford and others that there was no persecution of the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine?

And after all of these priests called out Ridbond,

Uh, he had to back down and admit he was wrong. So, but why are these people automatically de facto defending all the CIA narratives? That's suspicious to me.

A lot of these guys are coming out of the Russian Orthodox side of the church. Like, ooh, ooh, big bad Russian Orthodox. But, by the way, uh, does he not realize that most of the Antiochene who have a connection to the Middle East are also not Zionists, you dummy? It's not just Russians. What are you talking about? And Roor is still very small in the United States. Um, so there are plenty of Serbs, there are plenty of Romanians, there are plenty of people all over the Orthodox church who are not ecumenist. But he wants to tie it into the political angle because he knows his re-evangelical audience doesn't know anything about geopolitics. So they're just going to believe the news that Russia bad, Putin is the new Hitler, all this nonsense.

Greeks are chill. You know, other folks are chill, but it's the Russian Orthodox. Oddly enough, my family, you know, my mom is Russian Ukrainian. She was adopted by an Armenian family. And so.

Ah, there's the root of it. There's a Ukrainian angle to Rulon. That's why he is defending Ukraine and Zelensky. Go watch our podcast where he.

So, here's this re-defend Zelensky, and he's trying to turn it into basically this 32-minute video is throw in any dirt, throw any dirt against the wall that you can come up with to make it stick for his uh.

Yeah.

It sounds like Jay just recently went over to Mommy's house. She cooked him in dinner and gave him an earful, and he's just, he's just remembering some of it.

Yeah. It's like, yeah, literally throw anything against the wall. Find any dirt. Find this old tweet, which is a nothing burger. Throw it against the wall. Uh, Dyer's KGB. I mean, he's running with like the lowest tier [ __ ] too. Like, dude, you got to do better ops research than this, bro. This is weak [ __ ]. This is all very interesting overlap with the corrupt side of the Russian Orthodox, particularly that's in business and in bed with.

By the way, uh, how does he know that Kirill is a billionaire? Who, who is this from the New York Times? I mean, did you go to a *rap* church that asked for $1,000 or $10,000 from your congregants? So, uh, and the source of the supposed, I mean, I don't know what his finances are, but the accusation that Kirill is a billionaire, um, I mean, what's the proof of that, right? This is just assertions, and I guarantee it's coming out of like the New York Times and other CIA mouthpieces.

Vladimir Putin and all the issues with Ukraine.

Positive. Like he, he's like the bill in the billionaire who's an ecumenist. You know, it's like.

Well, wait a minute. Yeah, hold on. So, wouldn't that be like, wouldn't he be like a top player in your in your scheme? Would if Kirill is an ecumenist with a who's a billionaire, then he's like mastered *rap*, he's *rap*, he's mastered business church. So he should be a hero to you.

Not being in communion with other Eastern Orthodox churches. So, they, you know, they blame.

He, he would be the first saint of a *rap* church, right?

They point out the issues within the non-denom space, the Protestant space, and it's like, man, you have churches that are fighting right now that aren't in communion with each other.

Yeah, dummy. This is the low tier. This was Michael Lofton's line of argument. You got problems in your church too, dog. Yeah, the argument is not, we don't have problems, you do, therefore ours is true. The argument is, you don't have a church at all. You have no conception of church. So, it matters largely what the problem is, not just is there any problem. Everybody has problems. Every church has phonies. Every church has corruption. The question is, is your issue a system-level defeater? Right? A corrupt patriarch, of which there have been many, is not a system-level defeater for Orthodoxy. Uh, having no doctrine of the church is a system-level defeater for your grift.

That won't even acknowledge.

For in favor of whether it's at the level of uh the social stuff that goes on, like policing uh Orthodox people and how they act and how they talk, to how the church operates in general. Isn't he arguing from some, for some normative structure itself? But, but then he's denying it. He's doing both at the same time.

Yeah. Wouldn't there have to be a normative structure to uh control or to try to corral the corruption in the church?

Sacraments? Okay. Now, you guys can do the research on your own for all this stuff, but this is all very fairly public information.

Uh, how come you didn't cite any of it? You just asserted it, right? Like, uh, Kirill is a billionaire. Well, where's the proof of that?

Uh, that is scandalizing to the church as far as concerned, and they're upset that, uh, you know, Christians don't want to disclose the nominations or Avery or David Wood doesn't want to.

No, that's not. We're not upset because they won't say where they go. They won't say what they're defending. He's got to know that. Like, this is so low tier, dude. I, I keep just saying to it's just sad how little they expect of their audience. They're so cynical that they know that the more irrational and the more specious and the more emotional appeals they do, that will actually resonate with their re-audience.

Drop everything they're doing in debate, who is the one true church.

And Joy Bayar on The View. Talk about Trump, but you're, but you're Trump like the church is Trump. Relon has the equivalent of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Exactly.

One more here. So, this is from Andrew Wilson. And I, I want people to understand like what these guys actually believe about people outside the church. So, this is a.

Yeah, but at least we believe something. We can't get what you believe. You won't even say it.

Andrew Wilson. This is Wilson. And he's got two memes there. So, the meme on the left was one that was sent to him to describe what's going on with the Ortho Bros. And then he fixed it. So, I'll show you the.

Hey, by the way, go check out this stream with David Wood. He sat down uh with Dr. Tony who went over and, you know, made a long.

One second, Jay. I just want to point out again, they go in between. I'm not attacking Orthodoxy. I'm attacking Ortho Bros. But this is an Orthodox position about martyrs, right? This is not Andrew Wilson and Jay Dyer's like personal like.

You didn't conjure this yourself, you know, when they were talking about that. So, they keep switching. They keep switching. I'm No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not attacking Eastern Orthodoxy, the the the theology. I'm attacking Andrew Wilson and and meanants.

But Tony Costa's whole podcast is actually against Orthodox theology, right?

And look, look behind Tony Costa. He's got a menorah. Why, why does a Calvinist have a menorah in the background?

They.

Can you guys see that? Are you noticing a pattern? And by the way, Tony Costa asked me to debate in 2017 or 18. I said yes, and then he backed out because I was too mean, quote unquote. These are the absolute cowards. They're the most pussyfooted cowards on the internet, dude. These people are so snaky, cowardly, pathetic. They don't have any actual argumentation. The only strategy here is make as much fuss about Ortho Bro bad, anything to avoid an actual debate. And they'd learn nothing from the Roman Catholics who did this exact same strategy. Now, a little side note, I don't know if this is true because I don't follow the drama, but according to Scam Shamu, Michael Lofton is so tired of the papacy and Pope's explaining that he's actually all he does on his channel, according to Scam Shamu, is [ __ ] about the Israel conflict. So, basically Sam Shamu alleges that Lofton is on the edge of agnosticism and atheism because he's so let down by the papacy in the last year or so because all it is is political drama streams now. He doesn't care about apologetics. Isn't that interesting? Because Michael Lofton for the last several years had the exact same strategy as these goobers. These goobers are doing what Lofton did. And guess what? It's going to be the exact same trajectory. When you defend incessantly [ __ ] nonsense, and use this as a deflective technique to not actually address the issues or to do an actual debate, what ends up happening is you will burn out. You will go off into the irrelevance sphere. You will become totally irrelevant like Lofton has because you're defending the indefensible.

Pace against Eastern Orthodoxy that I thought was was very good. Uh.

Oh, wait a minute. I thought you weren't against the or orthodoxy. You was just against the Ortho Bros. But here he is promoting a live stream against Eastern Orthodoxy itself. So proving Cleave and made by Jim Bob's point that they shift back and forth between. I'm not against Orthodox. It's just the evil Ortho Bros. By the way, here's a 10-point refutation of Orthodoxy.

And you come to your own conclusions on some of this sort of stuff.

Actual memes here. This is the first one that was sent to him.

Okay, so in this one, an unbeliever.

So look at this. This is how this is so ridiculous. They're arguing about memes like leftists bitching about memes, and none of them will do a formal debate. Who cannot see through this? They're arguing about memes.

The the crazy part is the meme itself exposes what we're trying to get them to to defend. Like, they didn't even understand that this meme, the meme correction that Andrew did, was spot on. And they're like, "Oh, this is the worst." Is you're like, "That's literally what we're saying, you guys. You're not actually saving the person." Exactly.

You're not saying, "Help me. She's on fire."

Go anywhere.

And a Christian runs up and says,

"Yeah, but see, that's the irony here is that the guy with the water hose is like pulling up and being like, 'Yeah, but uh, in other words, there's no water in the hose because you're not telling him where to go.'"

"Just go to Jesus, bro."

Imagine being an ADIQ Muslim who actually does want to convert, like Jim Bob said, and your response is, "Uh, here's a 2,000-page extremely difficult book. Good luck."

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, what are you talking about?

"Don't worry. Here comes the water of life." So, this is a, this is meant to describe preaching the gospel to the person, everyone.

And then he finds out what the.

Yeah, we don't agree or believe that you have the gospel. That is what is in question. So, come prove that. Oh, they can't.

And it's the hose isn't working. And it's because an Orthod has. First, let's settle who the real firefighter is between the two of us.

Now, again, he thought this was so funny.

Andrew Wilson's response. He said he fixed it. He said he fixed, he fixed the meme. So, here's his meme. It's an unbeliever. Unbeliever is on fire. And then a fireman runs up, and you see uh, it's kind of small there, but the fireman's hat says Protestant Christian. Protestant Christian. This Protestant.

And the, the Protestant Christian is actually, um, trying to pour gasoline, trying to put out the fire with gasoline. And then.

Is accurately, that's an accurate assessment.

So, "Hey, flee Islam. It's a terrible Gnostic Talmudic Judaizing sect. Where should I go?" "To the Talmudic Judaizing sect across the street."

Exactly.

"To the synagogue that you sent people to." So, here is again, Rulon sends people to this circumcising synagogue. This should be the end of all of it right here. This there should be no more. This shouldn't even be a debate after this. But again, the people in these spheres are so dumb that they don't even see a problem with sending Young Dong to a circum to a circumcised launching new co 195 semi sweeter recipe that was more similar. It's all emotion to this. He, he just totally doesn't get the point of it and he goes right into just like moralizing.

That's because he doesn't understand actually how to debate. He thinks that debate is just what he's doing where you just try to present the best smear tactics because it's all ADIQ [ __ ] anyway for his audience.

The Orthodox guy who unhooks it to keep the Protestant Christian from pouring gasoline on this person.

I mean, what amazing, what amazing heroes the Orthodox.

We're amazing. You're amazing, bro.

It's all just emo.

Are, what amazing heroes? I mean, if it wasn't for them, who else would be going on all these streams and calling all these women [ __ ]? Who else would be the most insufferable people on the internet? Who?

Uh, so, wait a minute. That's not all Andrew does. Andrew does just go on streams and call people [ __ ] right? If you go through the total uh catalog of the countless times that he has been on whatever podcast and debated and argued with countless feminists, the instances of that actually happening is very small. And by the way, some women are actually [ __ ], dummy. So why would it be wrong to say when many women actually self-identify as [ __ ] to say that? Secondly, the uh Ortho Bros mistreating women is very minimal compared to what is actually going on out there when you look at real sins and real problems. Let me give an example. What's worse, an Ortho Bro being mean on X. And by the way, anybody can create a profile. Who even knows if real Ortho Bros are this? I give an, I saw a profile the other day. It was supposedly an Ortho Bro literally just created, no comments. The only comment was, "It's time to legalize grape." Dude, that's not a, who, anybody could do that. That could be Gavin's sock pro sock. I don't know that it is. I'm just saying allegedly it could, it's a, it's a joke. But uh, compare that to, um, Gavin Ortlund's church hiring a known Skittles pastor secretly married to a man. They knew it. They still hired him. And then only after people called it out did they say, "Okay, it's time for him to be dismissed." Now, what's worse? And where is uh, where is Ruseine calling out Gavin Skittles' church? Oh, he didn't call.

By the way, by the way, I'll just add that, um, it, it says a lot that the OnlyFans [ __ ] is more willing to debate her view than you are, really.

Oh. Oh, that was a sick burn right there. Exactly.

Who else would be coddling next to the gripers and the racist, dropping the N-word unironically?

Oh. Oh, there we go. So, uh, we racist over in this sphere? We racist cuz they're dropping the N-word, dog. Oh, Relon, the social justice warrior of 2026.

Heroes are these guys, man. They're really fighting.

Relon, you a dumb. How's that?

The, the against the real evils of the world, which is Christians putting out fires and doing all the evangelizing.

The real evils of the world. How about gay church that you never called out that you're best buddies with? Oh, and by the way, translating all the Church Fathers and the Patristic Fathers for you guys and getting you guys copies of the Bible. Who? Who?

What?

Translating the Church Fathers for you guys. What are you talking about? You dummy. The, the Greeks already had the translation for centuries. The Orthodox already had the Church Fathers translated natively into Greek. You dummy. Oh, but because an Anglican translated the Philip Schaef.

This guy is a re, dude could do this than the Ortho Bros. Uh-huh. Yes. So, this is this is this is how they view this. Again.

That was the weirdest like flex ever because Philip Schaef translated the Church Father set as if there weren't Roman Catholic translations already of the Church Fathers before Philip Scha.

I'm making the distinction over because it seems like the vast majority of these Eastern Orthodox cities or or regions are becoming more ecumenical, which I think is great because I think these are stupid, personally. I think these are stupid things to.

This is a stupid argument anyway. That'd be like saying, "Well, uh, many Western countries are becoming more gay, so I guess gay is good and it's winning."

Great.

Hey, real quick. Whether you're Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic, or maybe you're not even sure what you are, here is something that every follower of Jesus can lock arms on.

I don't know what's he trying to sell now. Let's see what his sales pitch is. I hope it's something good. Is it consulting with Relan's pastor, which cost $1,000 an hour for the full package on how to plant a church? And by the way, Rachel had a great idea. I bet you if you were a woman and you paid $1,000 to Rouslon's pastor on how to church plant, he would tell you how as a woman to be a preacher in church plant. Somebody needs to test that out to see if they will. So, you know that uh Rouson's pastor charges like $1,000 for the full package to consult on how to church plant. M.

And uh Rachel had a good idea that a woman should call and pay that money to see if they will teach a woman how to preach and teach at a church plant because I bet you for $1,000 they will.

That would be amazing.

It would be. In fact, I may have to start I may start offering these people money to debate because number one, then it will show that they're grifters because they actually will debate. If I if I offer them like $2 or $3,000 to do a debate, like will that make them actually do the debate? And then if they will do the debate, then it'll show that they're grifters, and then they'll also lose, right? So, I'm I'm going to I can tempt them with their vice.

The nature to pile on and to just.

Oh, here's Ruseon. He's going to respond to being called a grifter because he's been called a grifter before. So let's see his response to this.

Harass people online has led me to actually learn something from.

Oh, harass. Right now he claims he's being harassed because people are calling him a grifter.

You're not being harassed, dummy.

Dire uh a valuable lesson which is man, how to use that block button on X. It's it's become one of my favorite pastimes is just to block.

He learned that from me. This is one true true statement here. He learned to block people from me.

Ortho Bros on X because the utter brain rot that's came out. One of the things that came out on X was uh, we've talked about this before. Prior to 2021, 2022, I, I when I started making primarily Christian content, I discovered Mike Winger in like 2019. I was making marketing videos for Christians who are trying to become full-time with their art or with their businesses or fill in the blank. Okay. And a lot of these con clips of me have been clipped out of context when I'm speaking to marketing uh gurus like Rand Man Sean on trying to help Christians learn how to build an audience, monetize an audience, convert.

No, no, you don't. You you misunderstood. We always said that it was always your scheme to create business church, dummy. Let's play this. This is it right here.

I got 200,000.

Bro, I got the following. I got 28,000. I got 200,000 on TikTok. Two, two or 300,000, 500,000. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean?

How do I monetize these people?

And through covetousness shall they withment now?

What, what is your, you got to figure out what, what is your product going to be? What can you sell people? That's the actual question, right? So, we could [ __ ] around and we could say, oh, like I want to have a ministry and I want to do this and I want to do that, right? But what we're really asking is like, how do I build a business?

That sounds to me like that sounds to me.

So explicit.

Yeah. Rouson, I don't think you're telling the truth here because that sounds like you're actually saying business church, bro.

Yeah. He actually said the distinction. The real question. He didn't say the real question is how do we keep our ministry alive and get people to salvation though they don't have access to that really. Um, so he said it explicitly. He's pretending. No, no, no. I'm just helping Christians build their business, for their homes, for the for their uh so they can pay for the plant their church, you know, coaching session. It's like he's not trying to be pious about it. He's helping Christians.

Here's his pastor again with $2,000 a month consultation calls on how to start a church and how to church plant. In other words, it's Don Lapri's marketing scheme, dummy. All Relan did was take the marketing scheme and apply it to the church. The church that they set up that they do is a marketing scheme. Allah Rulan's Peter Drucker style marketing. Duh. That's the point, dummy. And you admitted it right here when you said this.

Money. And you got to figure out what, what is your product going to be? What can you sell people? That's the actual question, right? So, we could [ __ ] around and we could say, oh, like I want to have a ministry and I want to do this and I want to do that, right? But what we're really asking is like, how do I build a business? I don't really care about how many followers I have. I need those metrics to an extent for the for the credibility of them, but I'm more thinking what is my bank account going to look like?

This is a marketing.

Dude, he's so shameless.

He's so shameless. This is a marketing who decided I'll take all of this and do business. And now here's his defense.

People so they can make a living and sustain themselves. Okay, now this is this all these videos are back up. One of the videos that's been clipped is me talking to Brandman Seawn who's a marketing guy. I actually talk about Brman Sean in my book, The Ambition. You should go get that. Uh, it's a great book. You, we talk about.

He even promotes the book in the middle of this.

Sean, and I'm sitting there talking.

Conversation, if I remember correctly, the dude he's talking to got a little bit weirded out and pushed back a little bit, and he was like, I remember watching that out in a section.

Yeah, we played that clip on the other stream. The one he's talking about.

A community of Christian rappers who are doing good music but they don't know how to build audiences. Have a clip where I say, "Hey, I got this many followers. How do I monetize these people?" That's been.

Yeah, but you were a Christian rapper and it didn't go anywhere, and then you turned that into business church. That's what we're saying. We're saying that you didn't make it as a rapper cuz you suck, and then you just decided to become business church rap man.

Clip as if I'm talking about monetizing these people. Not a Christian artist who's selling Christian music, but how do I monetize these people that I'm selling the gospel to? Now, I think if.

How do I monetize these people?

Selling the gospel to.

Selling the gospel. Let's hear that again. Let's hear that again. Let me, let me. It's going too fast. Let me go back to normal speed and then I might go to slow, slow motion too.

Music, but how do I monetize these people that I'm selling the gospel to? Now, I think if you are.

Oh, Ruse runs again. Can't help but spill the beans. And this is how all fraudsters are. They can't help at times but to say what's really going on.

Let's do it in slow-mo. This is going to be fun. Is have a clip where I say, "Hey, I got this many followers. How do I monetize these people?" That's been clipped as if I'm talking about monetizing these people. Not a Christian artist who's selling Christian music, but how do I monetize these people that I'm selling the gospel to? Now, I think if you are confused on what we do here.

We don't sell the gospel. Well, the gospel is free. It's available for everyone everywhere you can walk in.

Wait, wait a minute. Which one is.

God? He always doing backpedaling. He's always doing little band-aid work, isn't he? See.

So, from a metric standpoint, if what really mattered was the gospel, wouldn't you care about the following over the money? So, you, you, you saw what he just said right there. He said, "I don't actually care about the following numbers." Well, but wait a minute. If it was about getting the free gospel out, wouldn't that be more important than the monetary metrics?

Almost any church in America get, get a free copy. But we've been making videos and merchandise and all this sort of stuff. Uh, and I've been doing this as a public Christian. So, this clip gets weaponized against me. Uh, every six months this comes up. Uh, it's utterly in bad faith. There's also all sorts of other accusations, attacks on my church, so on so forth. So, someone posted this clip and I replied.

Uh, he just noticed he hand waves quote attacks on his church. You talking about stupid ass *rap* church that charges $2,000 to consult with your pastor? Notice how he just hand-waved that, right? Attacks on my church. This dummy says it in the clip. He gives it away and now he's got to backpedal.

With one of the uh screenshots of uh seemingly Orthodox churches charging for the sacrament of baptism, simply pointing out, hey, if you're going to attack me for helping Christian.

Yeah, but Ruth's line, this has been addressed and you know that it wasn't charging for the sacrament of baptism. This, you've been corrected on this multiple times. So, now he's just straight up lying, right? Because he keeps pushing this. But uh, would would you Ron, would you care to correct us on Pastor Jeff Moore's deep dive consulting for $2,000 a month on how to church plant?

Church plant?

More like y'all's a bunch of church plants.

For reals, dog.

Rappers seven years ago, six years ago, figure out how to monetize their audiences. By the way, the fact that you were working with Christian rappers seven years ago is actually worse for you, dummy, because you were trying to tell them how to get paid with religion seven years ago. That's basically admitting, yo, I've been in this griff game for almost a decade, son. He's admitting it again.

And and not see the plank in your own eye of you guys seemingly charging for the sacrament of baptism.

Seemingly. What a snake, dude. He admits. So, he knows he's been corrected. He knows he's been corrected. He knows he's been corrected on this. But the way to keep using this fake, fake bunch of moralizing is to say "seemingly." Exactly.

Oh man. That like you.

Like that, that's like, that's why you say allegedly in media so you don't get sued, right?

Yeah.

Are beyond cooked right now. Do I think every Orthodox church is charging for uh baptisms? No. Do I think, do I think this is a normative process in their church? No.

Relon, the difference also here, let's say for the sake of argument that there was an Orthodox church that was actually charging for the sacrament of baptism. The irony is that what your dumb church does is 10 times worse. I don't mean Protestantism as a quote church. It's not a church. Your *rap* church is 10 times worse, dummy. That's the accusation.

But the point is, hey, we're helping Christians figure out a way to make a living for themselves. Figure out a way to provide for their families who are artists. Six years ago, I don't talk about this stuff as much anymore. And I made.

Yeah. Cuz it's embarrassing. That's why you don't talk about it, dummy.

Yeah. Cuz it didn't work.

Yeah. Let's see. Because you weren't. Yeah. Cuz you didn't. You were not actually a successful quote Christian marketing guru. You realize if I really want to get paid, I got to start a church online. Do this is what you said again.

I like shoes and I like money. And you got to figure out what, what is your product going to be? What can you sell people? That's the actual question, right? So, we could [ __ ] fit around and we can say, oh, like I want to have a ministry and I want to do this and I want to do that, right? But what we're really asking is like, how do I build a business? So, he's defending trying to monetize dumb Christian rappers. He uses the same strategy when he went to mis into business church. And now he's got to try to make sense of all that. He's got to try to spin the narrative like CNN or something to say, "Look, I was just trying to help people get, I was just trying to feed the kids, bro."

Yeah. Yeah, dude.

You do. So, you, so you want kids to go hungry? You want kids to go hungry in the hood?

Some comments that I've apologized for, particularly the FU comment, you know, and I'm clearly in a different studio. I looked.

Oh, well, you got a different studio now, right? So, it, it don't count. Listen, if I got a different studio, so when I go back to Florida, if I'm in my Florida room doing a live stream, everything I said prior doesn't count. According to Rson, I'm in a different studio now. It don't count.

Exactly. Control Z, dog.

Particularly the FU comment, you know, and I'm clearly in a different studio.

Oh, I didn't even know Rouslon said a four-letter word. Look at this. Look at this dumb hypocrite. He said FU and now, Oh, the Ortho Bros is bad. And by the way, he's in a different studio. If you say a cuss word, just get, go to, you got to get a different studio to make up for it.

Their families who are artists. Six years ago, I don't talk about this stuff as much anymore. And I made some comments that I've apologized for, particularly the FU comment, you know, and I'm clearly in a different studio. I look totally different. I'm wearing a beanie. This wearing a beanie.

What the hell is, what is, what is this, dude? Dude, what?

I'm clearly so that was a different sim. This re, this is talking about, yo, I had different downloadable content skins on back then, dog. I'm different, bro. I got a different costume, man.

Dude, I, I had like Jordans like they were good, don't get me wrong, they were, but they're different ones. I got like new ones from like, you know, dude, total different. I don't even wear that style anymore.

Yo, back then I had an orange beanie. Uh, I was wearing, uh, Jorts. Michael Jordan's. I got different drip, dog. I'm a different person.

This is the, uh.

Dog, I didn't have this, this arm sleeve yet.

I didn't have this green tattoo right here. A Slimer. I got a Slimer tattoo on my right arm. But see that Slimer right there? I'm a different person, bro.

The peak of leftist brain rot of trying to take when when leftist would take stuff from uh people's Twitter accounts.

Dude, leftist brain rot. He thinks what we're doing is leftist brain rot. D. You all have mastered the SPLC leftist technique of immediately saying the Ortho Bros are a dangerous cult. It's going to end darkly. There's a dark cloud above the Ortho Bros, and it's going to end bad. All this stupid leftist [ __ ] talking point. And but we're the leftist tactics. Yeah, sure.

10 years ago something stupid they said when they were younger and then taking it.

This ain't 10 years ago, dummy. This is like 2020 era.

Repurposing it and literally canceling people. Just try that. They try to do this to Kevin Hart. This is what they tried to do to me. And if.

Look, he's admitting it's bad. Like, you got to choose, dude. You could just say, "Look, that sounded really bad." You know, I was, uh, I was after money. I was after something else. I could see how that's, uh, not a good look. It sounded wrong. I wasn't motivated by the right things then. No, he doesn't say that. He defends it, but then he's saying, "Oh, they're bringing up stuff that's old." Well, does it make you look bad or not? Like, wh, which is it, bro?

And it's not that old. By the way, uh, in co, he was defending uh pro-trans, pro-skittles Andrew Yang. Uh, he was all, he was part of Yang Gang. So, that's not that long ago. I'm in a new studio, dog. I got a different, I got a broccoli afro now, dog. I'm, I'm straight up, I'm reformed.

Why? Because they, again, gross miscalculation. If I'm a grifter and Avery's a grifter and David Wood's a grifter, then that word loses meaning.

Only, only if they are not in fact grifters. But if they are in fact grifters, it doesn't, it doesn't lose meaning.

It, it doesn't mean anything because I think the audience is sophisticated and smart enough to say, "Hey, wait a minute."

No, he thinks his, he knows his audience is, and that's why he's pandering to every emotional appeal.

Rousan's not selling us the gospel. Rousan is reacting to commentary. He's having uh conversations with different people. He's putting on live events. He's selling quality merch. Uh, Roolon, Rouslon charges $1,000 or more around that to meet him in person, but he ain't selling the gospel, bro. By the way, get tickets to his live event, dog.

Books, prayer journals. It's not the same as monetizing the gospel.

Wait, but how, how is it not when you were telling the Christian rappers how to monetize the gospel right here?

So, within all of that, gross miscalculation. And what they've done is now Wood is ready to debate the one true church count. He's getting pre, he's prepping to what they.

Gross miscalculation because David Wood, who just learned this the other day, is going to debate it. I mean, does he think that we are afraid of debating David Wood when David Wood just learned these things from Tony Costa, who's a done is they've divided themselves amongst themselves and now people are pointing out, wait a minute, you're throwing stones from a glass house. Okay. Now you have guys like JP and Mohler and and the Christian King and Outton that are doing call-in streams.

Dude, is that really like what they are going down to the bottom of the bottom, aren't they?

Yeah. The dumbest, lowest tier on the internet is who he's got to prop up because they don't have anybody else, and so they're going to prop up the lowest tier retards, and they think this is going to end well for them.

That are saying, hey, like, let's go out of this debate and I.

By the way, no, no, nobody's going to call into those re streams. If there's going to be a formal debate, it will be on MDD and Alex Saurin will debate uh JP or Mer or whatever those re, and I guarantee, I'm going to bet funny that that won't ever even happen. None of these dudes is going to do a formal debate. They're retards. They don't know how to. They, they don't know what the word colloquial means.

Colloquial.

Colloquialism, bro. They don't know what the foqu is.

Flo, the feel. I think this is this sucks from one standpoint because from my vantage point, there's a difference when people have permissible practices, like say you want to venerate icons, and then saying those permissible practices are dogmatic.

Yeah, we don't care what you think should and shouldn't be dogma. No, nobody cares. We don't care what you think is best and should be aopha. Nobody over here think cares what you think.

And everyone must submit to your practices and by dogmatic, these things are not negotiable.

By the way, you're being dogmatic that everybody has to not submit to that being dogmatic, you idiot. You're being dogmatic about your non-dogmatism, idiot.

Okay, they're not negotiables. So, can you let bygones be.

Bygone? Sure. But if everything is an attack of of dumb, sloppy, bad arguments against Protestants, and that's how you're monetizing your audience, by the way, is sitting around and debating normie Protestants. Okay.

>> See how he thinks he thinks it's all through his monetization.

>> Yeah. His first thought was the model. What model is Dyer using? Oh, it's only to debate low tier uh idiots. Uh, no. I've debated all the top Muslims. I've debated the top atheists. I've debated the top Roman Catholics multiple times over. So, it's a lie to act like all I do is debate low tier people. It's a call-in show where anybody can call in and debate. And now he's acting like, "Oh, we got you, dude, cuz we got my little army of little is going to do the same thing." Yeah. So what? Nobody's going to call in cuz it ain't funny and it ain't entertaining.

>> And then people say, "Yeah, well, we're going to do that, too. We're going to match that energy." Okay. And we're going to match the marketing strategy according to him, right? Yeah. How many views are they getting? Right. All All they got to All they do is stream about me every day to get any views.

>> Guys that are younger than I am, guys that, you know, maybe don't have as many responsibilities as I do and they're creating this

>> guys that have no responsibilities. Uh sitting in a damn uh empty ass apartment like uh JP Uncut with sitting in the sitting in the corner cuz he got time out with his blank ass apartment.

>> Entire new uh community of Protestant apologists. Okay.

>> A new community, dude. This is the biggest these are the biggest ret on the planet. This is what he's got to prop up is these re This is awesome.

>> Fine. Fine. This is good for us.

>> Yes. Please let those guys be your representative apologists. This is going to be awesome.

>> Essentially David Wood being one of them. Gross miscalculation. And this is all happening on the back.

>> Dude, David Wood is not going to formally debate anybody on this topic. I guarantee you he won't. And if he does, it won't be anybody in our sphere. It won't be me. It won't be Jim Bob or Alex Saurin. uh he'll find um I don't know some weak person or he'll probably debate a catacum and then you know that's because that's your strategy right that's the ron marketing strategy this genius over here yo dude what if we put a catacuman up against two apologists dividing quonker

>> drop of god logic being catapulted into mass success because of this Muhammad hijab situation them calling him a grifter and then doing a a U-turn and saying we're oh by the way go support god Logic's

>> yeah but rousan is too stupid to understand that both of those things could be true I criticize him on the basis of him being inconsistent with sending people to Messianic uh Judaizing heretical synagogues, but also support the idea that he shouldn't be sued for putting up a live stream. In Ron's stupid mind, those things are mutually exclusive when obviously they're not.

>> Uh GoFundMe. Okay. Utter miscalculations. I I really don't think these guys are very smart or sophisticated. I think they think

>> really are you sure about that? I mean, we're over here having non-stop laughs at you. You dumb wiger. We're literally every day. Does Rouslon not realize you want to talk about money, Relon? Every stream I've done about you, I've made one to $1,500 in super chats per stream. So, I don't know what you're talking about. You want to talk about money and marketing strategies? These people are not that smart. Also, uh if we're not that smart, we're we're stupid. Why can't one of you just do a public formal debate with me and end me? It would be I'm stupid. It should be easy if I'm stupid to do a formal debate. Send your boy Gavin Root over here. I mean, Gav Gave Rousland. Gave Orland. Gave Gavin Root.

>> They're smart. But it's just a total failure on their part while dealing with at the very iss at the very least optics issues regarding charging for the sacrament of baptism and calling guys like Logic and David

>> again lying again. Nobody was charged for the sacrament baptism. He keeps lying.

>> And IP grifters. This is this couldn't be more poetic. And so, yeah, if you're going to cons consistently hurl f and slanderous accusations against myself and friends of mine, guess what? There's going to be the people that are going to say, "Okay, well, we you can play that game right now. Is that done in good? Is that not done in good faith? I don't know what people's motives and intentions are." And I think there are a lot of good Eastern Orthodox folks behind the scenes that are trying to figure this out. And in all of this, I think this is where the the question comes down to, which I think is really a question of faith. Can you have dogmatic views? Meaning, dogmas are not up for negotiation. They're not up for negotiation. You don't get to pick and choose dogmas. Okay? Can you have dogmatic views? Cuz he's an orthodoxy here.

>> Notice what he said there. You don't get to pick and choose dogmas. Yeah.

>> things of dogma if some of those dogmatic views are not in the primary sources. Okay, and that's where these debates are about to start going by the way. So all this attacking of solos scriptor, all this attacking of Protestants, the question becomes, can you have views like the intercession of the saints which is a dogma? Can you have views like the veneration of icons which is a dogma that when you look at the antiian fathers, okay, the the

>> Yeah, you dummy. They're in the primary source sources you and you're going to get destroyed when you actually debate these topics. Do you understand that we've already been through the stuff you're bringing up 10, 20 years ago? People on our side, don't you think I already went through this as a Protestant converting to Catholicism in 2001, too? Yeah, I'm I'm already on to this 20 years ago. Don't you think I went and read the Apostolic Fathers to see if they actually support this information? By the way, it's not just that. It's the Bible. The Bible is icon, dummy. fathers that were writing before the council na can you look at the scriptures and not see these dogmas in there and then make these dogmas that you must hold over all Christians everywhere and if we don't agree with these dogmas then we're the ones

>> well that just presupposes solos script you're a dummy so what you think is in the primary sources in the scriptures presupposes that the scriptures alone are the primary primary sources and you haven't proven that

>> right

>> that are lukewarm or university Christians and we don't have the fullness of the church and I would say a reasonable person if we're looking at the primary source is if you're claiming a dogma but those domas aren't the primary sources will evaluate that and say hey Yeah, that

>> you haven't demonstrated that the Bible alone is the source and you've not demonstrated that they're not in the primary sources because we always argue that they are

>> doesn't add up. Now, again, from my vantage point, I think they could be permissible uh actions and I think that there may have even been some Christians prior to the antiian fathers that had these these practices, but that doesn't mean normative practices for all Christians as doth.

>> So now he's going to admit and backtrack and say there might be some evidence of iconography in the pre- nine era. Oh, but wait a minute. So then you're moving the goalpost about what counts as primary sources. So when you ask about primary sources and that shifts between petristic evidence to biblical evidence and then you move the goalpost to say well there might be some church fathers in the pre- nine era that believed in images. But uh that doesn't mean it's normative. You just move the goalpost

>> doctrinal development. There was development of

>> by the way you have no basis to say anything theologically is normative. You're in rap church. the seeds of them were there where they develop. Whereas the Orthodox claim that we are the one true unchanging church. Now, how can you be the one true unchanging church if your dogmas aren't found in the primary sources?

>> Yeah, they are. That's because primary sources isn't Bible alone. And they're in the Bible, too, by the way.

>> That is what's going to be discussed. And when you hear these arguments for when you hear the arguments for intercession of the saints, when you hear the arguments for icon veneration, when you hear the arguments for you must confess your sins to a priest, okay? Okay. Or or confess your sins to God in the presence of of a

>> uh I thought you demand that I repent and confess my sins to you. So you do believe in you believe you do believe in oral confession of sins. Rouslon

>> of a priest they'll want right. I think they're lacking.

>> Well, yeah, cuz bless God is actually in Relan's mind when you give money to Relan.

>> That's that's how you bless God. Because in Relan's mind, Rouslon is God,

>> right? And I'm actually starting to think this dude actually was has always been an atheist and I think probably with David Wood too. I cannot understand. There's absolutely no possibility in my mind that you could be a Christian apologist for 20 years as a former atheist and not know whether you believe the Protestant evangelical basics. That's not possible.

>> Well, another part of it that they get really uncomfortable with is what do you practice? Cuz like what do you believe has been the basis for like a lot of debates and it's very useful. But when you get into well what's your practice like they get very uncomfortable when you ask them okay what is it what is it for you to actually practice and they ultimately they say well I just pray and in my and it's basically head church it's like actually in their head

>> the entire thing

>> the very thing they criticize orthobros of oh you live online dude your whole church is online what are you talking about

>> that means is you come back to well I'm just going to receive this stuff by faith which is if it's by faith then it's not this logical mathematical formula where you have the better arguments you don't

>> oh notice Again, Rouslon hates logic cuz he can't logic. He doesn't know what fallacies are. And that's why you put our debate behind a payw wall. So, it's not logic. It's what's in your heart. It's faith, dog.

>> Which is if it's by faith, then it's not this logical mathematical formula where you have the better arguments. You don't.

>> So, wait a minute. Faith doesn't mean that I have the better arguments. But you want to do a debate to see if the sources contain iconography and have the Bible. So, wouldn't that require logic, you dummy?

>> It's going to be a faith off. Is it a faith off? Right. How how do you faith off? Right. All it's performative. So, actually, he's correct. He's actually right because in his perspective, it is a faith off, which is who's a better performer

>> performatively.

>> Uh that's why he doesn't want to go to the logic and the argumentation. You heard it right there. He said, "I don't care about logic and argument." He says this all the time, too.

>> Okay. Now, that doesn't prove Eastern Orthodoxy false. It just shows that perhaps perhaps if you have multiple dogmas that aren't in the primary uh sources, those dogmas invalidate the claim that you are the one true church.

>> Yeah. You're going to get slammed and slain so hard on this topic. I hope you find somebody who will debate this topic cuz you're you're going to get

>> They won't though. They just won't debate it.

>> All they do is talk big. It's all talk, dude.

>> Hey, that's this is permissible practice, but you can't say you're the one true church and and you're unchanging. You're unchanging. Okay, now you got to change with the word unchang.

>> Dude, you're unchanging. Like like you have first of all, we take pride in being unchanging. So, you're going to have to demonstrate that being unchanging is actually a problem.

>> Means for any of this to be coherent. They have a framework for this, but I think it falls apart. Now, in the midst of all this, uh, my in

>> Okay, you think it falls apart? Cool. What any You want to give us any argument? Like any Relon's videos are all just what Relon thinks. Like, I've never even heard him cite a church father. I've never heard him give a theological argument. When we were on his podcast, he pulled up on the screen two verses out of Galatians and something else, right? Like the obvious ones you would think. Now, this verse right here, Jay, it say salvation by faith, not by works. How you going to prove that to me when you seemly got a unbiblical stance? And then we had a two-hour debate. I'm like, your whole argument was two Bible verses and when I called out four logical fallacies, you say, "I don't care."

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, this guy's the worst.

>> And I think there's other issues with the oriental Orthodox claiming to be the one true church and the true Orthodox claiming to be the one true church. And you got billionaire billionaire patriarchs who have said stuff like,

>> "Yeah, you haven't proven that that's actually true. You're just citing New York Times articles, dummy. By the way, uh a lot these people are so low tier that they actually think that if there's multiple people claiming to be the one true church, that is somehow an argument against the one true church. This is so stupid. That'd be like if multiple people don't think 2 plus two is four, then we don't know if two plus two is four. That's how stupid this is. That's why this guy doesn't want to have a formal debate and and constantly says, "Yo, I don't care about no logics. What you want to logix me, bro?

>> All Muslims and Christians worship the same creator God. Sounds a lot like Vatican 2. Okay. And all this stuff is being waved away. Why? Because I think my prediction is this is only going to create more and more divisions within the Eastern Orthodox community because you're adding

>> Wait, what does Vatican 2 have to do with this? Oh, he's talking about because Kurroll has made a or Barthol if Bartholomew makes an ecumenical statement. By the way, does he not realize that the Russian patriarchet just put out a statement that Christians and Muslims don't worship the same God? I mean, that was literally stated last week and he's acting like that didn't happen. But also, it doesn't matter if there's a patriarch who's a heretic dummy.

>> Microscope and unnecessary scrutiny from constantly attacking Protestants and we were like, man, you you guys do you. But I think it's crossed a threshold and it's only going to get worse. And I'm here. I'm I'm I'm here to watch and enjoy and uh eventually have some conversations, signal boost some of this stuff. That doesn't mean that I think my Eastern Orthodox uh friends are not Christians. stuff that

>> uh but wait a minute because you are saying that the only dogma that you can't be uh unfolding about or unbending about is if you have an exclusivist church. That's what y'all are saying on your streams. That's what God Logic just said. So that's not true.

>> That's not that's not my position and that's not the normative Protestant position. What that means is hey if you're

>> there is no normative Protestant position, you idiot. going to be hyper critical.

>> He doesn't even know. I guarantee he doesn't know what normative means. He thinks it just is the the normal. I bet he thinks normative is normal. Like majority. That's not what normative means. You

>> if you're going to have this hyperritical spirit about everything and everyone, guess what? There's going to be people that are

>> Dude, nobody is having a hypercritical spirit about everything and everyone. It's specifically the error of saying that it doesn't matter what church you go to. It's very specific and he keeps lying throughout this video.

>> Gonna want to match that. There's going to be people like David Wood that are gonna say, "Okay, cool."

>> Yeah, I'm happy for people to match it. We've been asking forever for people to match it and David Wood would not do a formal debate with me on the topic. He already declined. None of your gay crew will do a public formal debate with me on this topic. God Logic won't. IP won't. Gavin Ortland won't. Raes West Huff won't. You won't. You already said you would four times and then said, "But he got to repent to me publicly before I do it."

>> I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna learn from your guys's best sources. I'm going to learn from the other best.

>> Wait a minute. How are you going to sit and learn when you just said a minute ago we don't have evidence in the primary sources? But you're going to sit and learn. So you don't actually know whether we have evidence in the primary sources. You sources and we're going to examine and we're going to have this one true church debate. And I think it's good. I think it's fine.

>> Yeah. Right. Who's going to have that? When and where? I I'll I won't hold my breath.

>> Okay. And then uh Protestants have to look at the same information and say, "Hey, yeah, what we're doing is a retrieval method. We're trying to retrieve the uh the the original hundred years of the church post." Oh, so now he's a restorationist. This doesn't even know what he's arguing for. Now he's a restorationist that Protestants are retrieving the original first hundred years of the church. How are you going to retrieve the first hundred years of the church when you don't even have the Bible yet, Donnie? There was no completed cannon in the first hundred years of the church. So obviously they weren't solo scriptura in the first hundred years dummy. They're still writing the Bible.

>> The the the ascension of Jesus, what was that church like? What was their values and how did

>> So the book of Acts dummy? You mean where they have sinnods and where they have episcopacy?

>> They gather. And by the way, I don't think either church looks like the way the early church looked. For the record, I don't think they uh

>> Nobody gives a [ __ ] what you think. You just admitted that you got to learn from the people on the topic. So, you admitted you don't actually know. So, who gives a [ __ ] what you think? Dummy

>> saying rock and roll uh CCM songs. Nope.

>> Do you think it was rap church? Do you think the first century church was [ __ ] rap church, mate? I'M OFFER SHELBY. THIS MAN'S a bloody and you heard it first from the Pey Blinders.

>> Okay. Okay. So, I don't think it looks like my church and and I also don't think they they they

>> Hold on. You don't you don't think it looks like rap church? So, this just admitted rap church isn't the first century church

>> saying rock and roll uh the the the ascension of Jesus. What was that church like? And what was their values and how did they gather? And by the way, I don't think either church looks like the way the early church looked. For the record, I don't think they uh sang rock and roll uh CCM songs. Then they didn't sing rap songs, dummy. Then rhythm church, rap church is not the church of the first century. You You just admitted that your church is fake. Good job, dummy.

>> Okay. So, I don't think it looks like my church. And And I also don't think they

>> I don't think it looks like my church. Ron is admitting the early church, which he wants to be the model for this debate, wasn't rap church. Shocker, it wasn't rap church. But what a [ __ ] ret. This is the stupidest man on the internet. There's nobody dumber than this. And how many of y'all people got duped by this idiot? He's supposed to be He can't even do a rap beef in response. All he does is [ __ ] and whine and run to the feminists on the on Twitter to try to back him up.

>> They they war.

>> By the way, I'm absolutely convinced that there is no way this dude was actually a gangster. Who actually believes that [ __ ] This dude probably stole a pack of now and lers. He stole a pack of now and lers off the principal's desk and got got detention from it. Yo, I WAS A GANGSTER WHEN I was young, son. wizard outfits and had incense and can

>> wizard outfits. So he thinks lurggical vestments are wizard outfits. You that means the Old Testament is a bunch of wizards. You just undid your own Old Testament religion. That means the synagogue that you send people to, they're wearing wizard outfits. You You are the stupidest person on the internet. Look at this dude. This is where he sends people to get circumcised to this this fake ass Messianic synagogue. He's wearing lurggical, rabbitical, vestment outfits. So, Old Testament Levites were wizards, dummy. This dude is unbelievably stupid.

>> Everywhere. Uh, and had beautiful art everywhere. I think they may have

>> Yeah, the church being persecuted is not going to have giant cathedrals,

>> used art and seemingly had some art. Uh, and

>> also, but now he's moved the goalpost. Remember a minute ago he said, "You need to prove evidence from the primary sources that they had orcs and that they had imagery." And there might be some of that. They do got some of that. But you got to prove it's in the Bible. So he moves this. This dude is so dumb.

>> I also think that they had very simple gatherings around the gospel.

>> Yeah. We don't think we don't care what you think. And there's already been scholars that have disproven the house church model. Like the house church you think is a low church because it says a house. Yo, that that was a prayer meeting, bro. That was a prayer meeting at LRae's house where we did a circumcision on little Don. We took him in the bathroom and did a circumcision. Improv circumcision. Yo, that's what house church means, dog.

>> So, those are my thoughts. I think everybody at the end of the day uh is is looking for the truth. And I think if you're going to look for the truth, you have

>> You just admitted it's not rap church, you dummy. You literally just said my church isn't the early church.

>> Have to be logically consistent. And they're just not. The arguments are

>> Wait a minute. A minute ago you said it's not going to be proven by logic and reasoning. You literally said that two minutes ago. He said it's a faith issue. It's not logic. But now it's we're not logically consistent. Dude, you can't go five minutes without contradicting yourself, dummy.

>> Not logically consistent. They can nuance it to death. They can word salilot it to death. Uh, and now

>> he actually I actually think Relan is so dumb that he actually thinks logical argumentation is fancy words. He's at that level. Like he thinks that that's what logic is is like, you know, silver tongue car salesman talk. That's what logic. Know logics is like when you got a bunch of like, you know, fast talking and like fancy words and [ __ ] like out of the dictionary I ain't never even heard of, bro. Yo, that's a that ain't how I roll, dog. I roll by heart and faith.

>> This is going to be scrutinized because they decided to pick this fight. Uh, and now you got

>> No, you you baited everybody with your dumb idea to put a catechum in against two people. It was called debate across the internet and then you backtracked when you got mild push back and had a meltdown and admitted that you were wrong. you already admitted that you're the source of all this. So, yeah, we're happy to pick a fight now. And guess what? We won't stop coming. It ain't going to stop. I'm gonna be making fun of you for the next 10 years, dummy.

>> Andrew Wilson scrambling, trying to hop into debate, which by the way, Andrew Wilson stuff generally against leftists, uh, I think has been good. And I've

>> noticed Rouslon lied too and said that Andrew Wilson only repeats red pill talking points. And then when Andrew showed from Grock that Andrew consistently doesn't repeat the red pill talking points about don't getting don't get married etc. Relon blocked him. So Ronan is a legit 100% pathological liar.

>> Celebrated it and I've championed uh his moves in those regards. I think his language and his mouth and his demeanor and his smuggness uh is

>> here we go. Smoking man bad, right? But you just said a cuss word a couple years ago. you. Yo, I've apologized for the f word and look, I'm in a new studio. I got some new drip. He actually said that. He said, "I'm in a new studio and I got different clothes." What the [ __ ] does that have to do with whether you said the f- word, dummy?

>> Generally, uh, unbecoming of anyone that's a Christian, lacking fruit.

>> Yeah, but all Oh, here we go. Smokeman bad. Four-letter word. Okay. So, let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. I don't even buy that it is, but uh how come you didn't call out uh Gavin Ortland's gay church? Where were you on that? That's 10 times worse than anything Orthob bros are doing. And by the way, orthob bros are bad for rage bait. He just did a lame ass rage bait in his video, which we all just laughed at. I thought rage bait was bad behavior on the internet.

>> The spirit in these sorts of conversations. Um but if you want if if this is what they want, well, guess what? There's going to be a bunch of people that do it.

>> No, let's do it. Let's go. Let's I will we will this war will never stop. In fact, we'll ramp it up. I'll do streams every day.

>> And there's going to be a bunch of people that go there with them. Um I'm not going to keep talking about this because I don't want to bring more attention.

>> Who is even going to go? He's he's flexing David Wood as if David Wood is some like like we're scared of David Wood. I already asked David Wood to do a formal debate and he wouldn't do it. David Wood just learned two days ago what the orthodox positions are on any on basics. David Wood can't say if he believes the the reformation solos. You think he's your ace in the hole? You are a legit [ __ ]

>> into unnecessary drama with this regard because I think this is only casting more and more division. But this is my video on it for the month.

>> Yeah, but we're not in league with you. We're already divided against you. So what you talking about cast creating more division

>> and uh and and I probably won't talk about it for a while after.

>> Oh, but you want to start a war. Uh but you're above talking about it. He wants to He wants to go at a war and he wants to have that war, but he's not gonna talk about it for a while. Dude, I swear Relon is you. Somebody should go through this video and every minute to two minutes there is a backtracking of the thing he said two to three minutes earlier. That's all he ever does. Every statement is backtracked and contradicted within 3 to four minutes within the freaking video. Unbelievable. And this is the same dude who said four times he would debate me and then backed out because I'm too mean and I must publicly repent to him. So he actually does believe in oral confession. It's just to the god rlon. Right.

>> As much as they want to debate me into a friendly chat uh over nonsense. Uh I'm going to just

>> wait a minute. How is it nonsense when you just said you're about to go on the offensive and you're going to have these battles, but you won't debate even though you said you will, but also it's nonsense. So, if it's nonsense, why are you going to war over it?

>> Engage. Because honestly, I I've been traveling a lot. I'm busy. I got other

>> Yeah. Notice Relan's tour, his tour we saw on his website. Two cities. There's two cities. He's so busy, dog. I'm on tour. I ain't got time to mess with you. I ain't got time for you, son. I said, "How about a fivem minutee conversation?" This before all this blew up. I got time for you, son. I'm on tour. Oh, two cities. Two cities on his website. That's a tour, dog. I'm on tour, son. Yo, this is like a you know, smoking grooves tour, right? 199. We got like 50. Maybe not 50, more like three locations that we're doing. You know what I'm saying?

>> Stuff I'm working on. Um, but I again at some point I will have one of these conversations. At some point we we'll keep having these conversations with Eastern Orthodox, but uh I I really don't think they understand how facious some of the logic is. And

>> wait a minute, Ronin, you just said a minute ago logic doesn't matter and you don't care about logical argumentations. And now you're back to yo, you facious and full of logics, bro. And I'm going to show you you ain't got no logics, bro. I'm going to show you you got no logics.

>> And uh now that that energy IS BEING MATCHED, OH, WE'RE THE VICTIMS. HOW DARE

>> AIN'T nobody saying we're victims. We love it. That's why we're ready to formally debate, dummy. And ain't nobody on your side going to I guarantee you. How do you think people been studying this stuff for 20 25 years? How do you think David Wood, who just learned about it yesterday, is going to do well. Are you this stupid? This whole stream is a a facade of fear. You can tell he's scared about this. That's why at the end of it, he's he's backtracking being like uh uh I'm going to go to war, but also I'm not going to do it cuz uh I'm above it all. I'm above it all. But you want war, you got it. But also, I'm not going to do it because I'm above it, but also logic don't matter, but I'm going to show you you fellacious.

>> YOU HOW DARE YOU? HOW DARE YOU POINT OUT that man, optically, we have an issue. How dare you? And so those are my thoughts.

>> No, everybody is saying you got the bad optics, dude, on our side. All you have is whining and bitching about uh Pearl CL. That's you. All you had is pearl clutch this whole time, dummy

>> on this sort of stuff. I want to know what you guys think about this. Like, are you are you actually considering how bad of a weakness was for Orthors? How

>> Yeah, nobody thinks that. That's why everybody is laughing at how ridiculous David Wood has been exposed cuz David Wood after 20 years can't say what his basic positions are. That's David Wood got exposed.

>> Bad of a week this was for, you know, you got revenge, you got all kinds of nonsense.

>> There was no revenge corn. You're lying again. like this is this is really bad. Now again, the the the rest of the Eastern Orthodox community gets to gets to decide on if we're going to be complicit in this by being silent about some of the stuff. And I'm just

>> here he goes again. This is here's his uh call to cancellation. He did this on the last video. This piece of [ __ ] is so dishonest that his only move is to try to get other Orthodox clergy to cancel anybody in our sphere. Meanwhile, he's not man enough to actually do a formal debate after he said he would do it four times. and backed out. What a piece of garbage, dude. This piece, this dude is way 10 times more snaky than I ever thought he was. I regret even going on this podcast.

>> So proud of the Eastern Orthodox that have stepped out and said, "Nah, this is wrong." Like, revenge porn is terrible. You can't You can't

>> It wasn't revenge porn. You What are you talking about?

>> Do this. This is This is not how we behave. I'm I'm I'm I'm pumped for those priests that have spoken out about this sort of stuff, but man, there's a lot of coddling and man, there's a lot of pragmaticism. Hey, these people get people to church. So, pragmaticism. Pragmatism. The [ __ ] are you talking? You don't even know the words you're saying. You word salad. This dude's trying to do word salad. He doesn't even do pragmaticism. Pragmatism. What are you talking about?

>> Everything else they do, we're not going to speak out against it because we want to keep a unified or Eastern Orthodox face. That sounds a lot like the Dao Bros. That sounds

>> Yeah, that's a fallacy of association. Again, doesn't know basic fallacies. Yo, that's a that's a genetic fallacy, dummy. That sounds like what he said. That's the same as that dude.

>> Like a lot like Islam apologetics, right? Uh and I I just I I've seen this before. I don't think it ends well. We saw what happened to the red pill movement. And

>> here we go. Uh Ortho, bro's dangerous. Ortho's bad. Ortho's going to create uh uh there might be violence, bro. Look out. Something's common, right? SPLC level talking points. Same thing they always do. Uh, how many examples of actual orthob violence? Zero. Absolutely none. And yet, uh, it's it's going in bad for these dudes. Dark clouds is coming. So, they're actually, in my opinion, doing the SPLC style talking point. He does it again. Same thing that Gavin Ortland did. Same thing Wes Huff Huff does. Uh, these guys are dangerous. They're online cults. They're gonna get people hurt. They're destroying lives. No examples, no proof. Where's your proof? Uh here's a sock account with no followers that said legalize grape. Yeah, that could be anybody, dummy. That's not proven nothing. And none of that will hold up in court either, by the way. So, I hope you do keep pushing this. See what happens.

>> Crashing and burning and and and now being a shell of itself. Uh we we've seen what happened to the flat earth movement, you know, crashing and burning. Now,

>> so again, guilt by association. And this is the left. He's the does all the leftist tactics. Orthob bros are like the the alt-right. Orthob bros are like flat earth, right? Associating us with all this nonsense online.

>> So this

>> uh how by the way, how has the SPLC fake funded stuff per uh uh uh worked out? It didn't work out very well, did it? That fell apart.

>> Oh, okay. So, but you're going to do all the same Solinsky style tactics of orthobros is dangerous. Yo, they might hurt somebody. they're going to something bad's coming. I don't know what it is, but something dark is coming.

>> There's an inevitable end to this sort of stuff. Uh, and and it's just it's sad that it had to come to this. So,

>> so again, notice he is seething. He can't stop making videos about this because it's actually dipping into his market share, right? Relon's numbers are worse than mine. He's trying to talk about like he's winning this battle online. Like, this is all facade. This is what he's doing here, which is proclaiming victory when he's beginning to collapse. It's cracking for him. And we are not going to I'm not going to stop the