Financial Momentum Starts With a Shift in Perspective | May 14, 2026

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From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George Campbell, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour here on the Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-255-225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money.

Betty is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Betty. How are you?

>> I'm hanging in there. I can't believe I'm actually talking to you.

>> Well, I'm honored. How can you, how can we help you today?

>> Uh, well, I'm I'm going to apologize up front in case I cry because this has been a really stressful situation. Um, but long story short, my husband and I have a house that we cannot afford. Um, our mortgage payment is over $6,000 a month, and it's been listed for over two months now, and the house is just not selling. Um, and we got we got a report back from our Ramsey Trusted Real Estate agents last night. Um, that's not very good. And so we're looking at either having to drop the price again and try to find $30,000 while we're in Baby Step Two to be able to pay to get out of this house that we can't afford. Um, and the other options that they gave us really were to potentially look at a short sale or a deed in lieu, or something like that. And those options aren't on the table because my husband will lose his job if we go that route, and I I don't know what to do.

>> Okay. So, what, what is your household income?

>> Um, my husband is currently working, um, between 24 and 30 hours of overtime each week to be able to bring in $12,000 a month take-home.

>> Okay. All right. And your payment is $6,000. And how much debt have you got in Baby Step Two?

>> Um, well, we we started out with a lot more than this in July of last year, but we were able to get cruising through through December. Um, and now we just have $45,000 left on two personal loans.

>> So, how much, how much have you paid off before that from when you started in June down to $45,000? What did it start at?

>> Uh, we I I think the balance was a little over $70,000.

>> Okay. So, how did you get that $30,000 given that this house payment, so how did you manage to pull that off? That's impressive.

>> My husband did receive, um, a bonus at the end of last year, and we used all of that. Um, and I I was working at the time when we first got it got started with our debt snowball. Um, but over the course of last year, um, I lost all three of my part-time jobs, and I have not been able to find another one. Um, and we have a seven-month-old, so I was pregnant during all of that chaos as well.

>> On. Um, no, no one will hire, will hire me apparently.

>> Yeah. Um, what, what is your career field?

>> Um, I am primarily a stay-at-home mom. I homeschool. So, I

>> No, I mean the jobs that the jobs that you've been getting, what were you doing? I mean, what is your, if you could go get a dream job right now making $6,000 a month, what would it be?

>> I worked remotely, um, doing data entry for the past 10 years.

>> Making, making what, what were you making?

>> Um, I was making about $2,000 a month.

>> Okay. All right. Good. All right. Okay. Um, well, um, and and the house, you you owe so much on it. That's what the $30,000 is is that you're afraid you'll have to sell it for less than or you'll net less than you owe. Right?

>> Correct, sir.

>> Okay. All right. What did the report say? You said you got a bad report from the real estate pro.

>> Um, yeah, just that if we didn't lower the price, they thought that we had less than a 10% success, like, likely success rate of being able to sell it.

>> Um, we've been in the house for just under two years. We originally purchased it. Um, it was supposed to be with my parents. We were supposed to split it, and um, as soon as we closed, before the first mortgage payment came, my dad went back on his word and said he had never agreed to split it 50% with us. Um, which was what we were all under the impression would happen. And then since

>> Is he, is he on the mortgage?

>> No, he is not.

>> And not on the ownership either. Okay.

>> No.

>> Okay. All right. Um, well, here's the thing. The great news is is that with bonuses and finding extra work, both of which could be easily in your future, you've been able to hang on and reduce debt by $30,000. That's fairly impressive, really. And so if we can add the bonuses and the income from you, and I think you can, back to the equation, even if you stop your debt snowball temporarily and start piling up cash to write a check and get out of this house, um, you you can make that. That's going to that's going to work. You're going to be able to do that. That you're not trapped. You're just in a really sucky temporary situation. But you know, 10 years from now, this will be in the rearview mirror and you'll be going, "Oh, that's a dumb thing I did. My dad lied and wouldn't have done it without that. And dad gum, what a horrible mess we got in just about the time the baby baby was born. By the time Rachel was that age, by the way, I filed bankruptcy. So there you go. I mean, and and I'm okay now, you know. So you're going to be okay is my point. U but right now, the snapshot that we take, it's got tears in it and that's valid. Okay. The snapshot is this, I can't breathe. But the film strip says there's an end to the movie. That's not the end of the world. The rainbow comes out. So, um, yeah. So, so I I would say stop your debt snowball temporarily and just start piling up cash because as soon as you start seeing options, your um anxiety level is going to go down. Um, and yeah, he picks up all the hours he can pick up, and you pick up all the hours you can pick up, and yes, you'll find something. You just gone through a dry spot here, and nobody's hiring people who have seven-month-olds. Not true. You're in Washington D.C. You'll find something. I mean, it's it's Is it easy? No. The job market's kind of slow right now, but uh, but you can, I think you can do it. Um, even if you don't get any income coming in, you can make the payment and not go into foreclosure, short sale, or anything else, uh, for for a period of time until you get rid of it. And while pile up $30,000 bucks and get ready to do what the real estate agent said, let's write a check and get rid of this hell hole. It's driving us nuts, right? Have you guys actually done a budget to see where this other $6,000 is going in your take-home pay? Because you might find some a,000 or $2,000 bucks right there.

>> Yeah. Um, we we have. We've actually been pretty locked in since July. Um, which I'm thankful for, but, um, generally speaking, with the work that we had to do to prepare the house for sale and everything, I think we're able to put aside about $1,000 to $200, um, a month right now to go.

>> And and then you add your income that you're going to get, and you add his bonus, and you start selling stuff because the house is going to get sold anyways. Might as well clear some rooms out, make some money off Facebook Marketplace, and all that can help if you get creative.

>> Yeah. And again, I take the pressure off yourself to get rid of the $45,000 unless it's a $45,000 car. If it is, sell it and be done with it. But, um, but I mean, personal loans, I the the if you're, you know, but I I think that the the proper perspective on this will give you a lot of, um, give you some of your fight back, um, and get the tears back, push the tears back from the edge a little bit, and go, "Oh yeah, we can do this. This is actually doable." I think you can. Um, but I think it's going to be, I think the next 12 months are not going to be fun. Um, and you get rid of the house, you got $30,000, and then you go knock out the $45,000, and you know, learn a whole bunch of lessons in this short period of time about the time the baby was born, and you'll look back on that 20 years later, and baby's 27, and you'll go, "Man, when you were born, our life sucked."

>> And the baby will go, "I don't remember that."

>> Yeah. "I don't remember that." "What's for dinner?" "I don't remember that."

Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance, or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something. Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly. These are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you.

>> That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Nate's in Houston. Hi, Nate. How are you?

>> Doing great.

>> Good. How can we help?

>> I have a question about boundaries with parents and money. So, um, got to have a family, you know, member or my mom and dad. They want to gift us a vehicle. Um, they had a track or at least my dad's had a track record of just using parent guilt throughout my life, and it's really created just some tension in our marriage. Um, my dad likes to have control over our life when he doesn't have any really means to it. You know, we have, I'm a breadwinner, and my wife stays home, takes care of the kids. We're active in a church. We're active, um, and we're states away, so it's really nice to just have that distance.

>> But we are trying to respectfully decline, even though they're very pushy on trying to give us this vehicle.

>> When in fact, um, you know, they want us to be, you know, going. Yeah. So, just trying to find a way to respectfully do that.

>> So, it sounds like you over a period of time have established some boundaries because of this pattern, and now they're like, "Oh, I think I'm going to try it again."

>> Pretty much. Yeah. And

>> I mean, there's not any current. They don't currently have any hooks in you, do they?

>> No.

>> Okay.

>> My brother, though.

>> Well, not you, but I'm talking about you. Okay.

>> Yes. No. No hooks.

>> Yeah. And so they're like, "Okay, well, we ain't getting any hooks in him, so let's set one." Right.

>> Mhm. Yeah.

>> So, I mean, just don't be a bass.

>> Don't be a bass. Yeah.

>> Don't bite. Right. Don't bite on the hook, man.

>> It's just I mean, so

>> Yeah. When you say they keep pushing, are they like calling you saying, "Hey, we really want to get you this car. What do we got to do?"

>> It I mean, yeah. I mean, they're they're it's like texting. It's, you know, and then you get on the phone and it's

>> Can you just say talk about this?

>> Here's the thing. When someone's doing stuff like this, the fewer words and the shorter the conversation you have, the better for everyone, them and you.

>> Because the longer you stay in a conversation, the more likely you are to revisit all the past sins. And that doesn't do anyone any good because they're not going to change. Yes.

>> And so, you know, "no" is a complete sentence, and keep your sentence pretty close to that. "Hey, Dad. Love you, man. Thank you for the offer. Not going to be able to do that this time. We've got other plans. Thanks." That's it.

>> And we we I mean, we love the offer. We have a beater car. We would

>> No, no, no, no, no, no. You don't love the offer. You You spent the whole first half of the call telling me you didn't love the offer. You would like a new car, but the but the cost is too high on this one.

>> Yes.

>> And you'll open the door to him going, "Oh, it looks like there's a chance."

>> I'd like to have a new car, too, but I don't want a $1,200 payment, or I don't want my dad breathing down my neck again, cuz I just got rid of him the other day. So,

>> You know, you know what's inside that Trojan horse. And so, you just got to keep it at bay.

>> Yeah.

>> Don't let the Trojan horse in.

>> So, even though you do need a car, then you just go, "Hey, I'm, you know, we're we got other plans and, you know, uh, we appreciate it. Thank you. Not going to work right now."

>> And I don't have to go into a long explanation.

>> And the more you feel tempted to explain yourself, the more you're going to cause issues that are not helpful.

>> Mhm. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, this is it's definitely helpful know the whole sentence. Um, yeah, and we're driving a beater. We're on we went through Y's course at our church, and it's been very helpful. Yeah, I'm I'm working a plan. I've got a plan out. I'm going to get me a car, and and I know you noticed our old car, but hey, thank you. I appreciate your offer. That's very kind of you. But we're we've got it figured out and you guys give find somebody that needs that car over there on that end of the world that's find a single mom and help her out with it. Dad, thank you. Thanks for the offer, though.

>> End. Well, what about what about No, Dad. Dad, I just told you we're not we're not going to do it. Okay. And it's just, you know, we don't have to be mean, but just real low volume, slow sentences, and short, concise conversations. And all of that's very helpful to bring this to a close. And it may it may take two or three times because this guy, these people are not used to hearing "no."

>> Yeah.

>> No one tells them no.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. And so, but I'm telling you, you're going to feel so much better when you get off that text or off that phone, and your wife is going to look at you with a beautiful smile and go, "I married a man. Look at that. Look at the backbone on that guy."

>> It really is. I mean, that's what's going to happen. So. And if you continue to struggle with it, I always recommend Dr. Henry Cloud's book, Boundaries. I've sold I think he's sold 20 million, and I told him the other day, I think I sold two million of them. So, uh, for him, cuz I just love that book. I love him. He's a good friend, but also they love the book. And so, uh, because it's most every family struggles with some kind of boundary-violating person at some time. Sometimes they grow out of it, or sometimes they finally get the message, or whatever. But you just have to go. And there's a universal rule. People who violate boundaries don't like you setting them. M. That's when they throw the fists up and go, "It's time for." Always 100% of the time expect pushback, cuz their goal is to get through the fence, knock the fence down, act like the fence is not there. And then you put the fence up, and it pisses them off. "Wait, there's a fence? I don't like fences." And so 100% of people who don't like boundaries don't like you setting boundaries. So when you do, and and you, you know, you just go, "Yeah, but look, there's a fence."

>> I just had Jefferson Fischer on my show this this morning, and he was talking about this of if you start to sort of ramble and and talk more and more and more, it just gives them more ammo. It gives them more leverage. And so he said,

>> Puts oxygen in the fire. Yeah. He gives the same advice.

>> Firm, short sentences.

>> He's smarter about that stuff than I am. So he's very tactful.

>> I might have actually stolen it from him. He's a lot nicer than I am.

>> That's true.

>> For sure. He's a general Mr. Rogers compared to me. But yeah,

>> But I'm just like, "No, piss off." You know?

>> That works, too, though. In Dave's defense, that is a strategy that can work.

>> It does work. It's just a little more brutal.

All right, Sam's in Bend, Oregon. Hey, Sam. What's up, man?

>> Hey, guys. I'm a big fan. I've been working your guys' plan for several years. I absolutely follow everyone everywhere I can.

>> Well, thank you. Awesome. I'm, uh, I'm going to try and keep it short and sweet and not get too emotional. Um, I'm at the tail end of a divorce where I'll be able to, um, have access to funds and properly pay for debts and everything. And I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to go about that with, um, some of the lump sums that I'm going to be receiving, uh, when the divorce is finalized.

>> Wow. How long were you married?

>> Um, last Friday was our anniversary, and it was, uh, we're still legally married, but, um, 16 years.

>> I'm sorry. How many kids you got?

>> Three boys.

>> How old are they?

>> Uh, 15, 10, and eight.

>> Okay. All right. Well, rule number one, take care of them and your broken heart.

>> Oh, we are. We are.

>> That's rule number one. That's the most important thing in this. And and then and then so pretty soon you'll be able to laugh about this. I talked to a lady the other day that got divorced. She said, "You know, I got out of debt. I divorced him." So there's good, there's good that can come of all this. This much manure, you can grow something, right? So Oh, I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing to go through. All right. And so I I'm still going to take the I'm going to take make sure the household is taken care of. Food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. And then lump sums, if they're in, uh, retirement accounts and need to stay in retirement accounts, I'm just going to do rollovers. Uh, and other lump sums, we're going to walk the baby steps. You got debt, you're going to get out of this?

>> Well, so I was that was my kind of on the fence part with the retirement is I'm still young. I'm 38, so I have time. I have a full-time job.

>> I would not cash out the retirement. No, I would not pay the penalties. You'll pay penalties on it. And and I wouldn't do that. So, same as same as if you weren't getting a divorce.

>> So, if any liquid cash, just apply that to your next smallest debt, make minimum payments on the rest, and just debt snowball it.

>> And if you're getting a big chunk of his 401k or something, then go see a Smart Investor Pro and just do a rollover into an IRA into some good mutual funds.

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Well, we wish every call could get through on this show, but I'm afraid right now the lines are jammed, and, um, as soon as one of those people are gone, there'll be four more. And, um, we hope you can get through. The phone number if you want to get in the lottery is 888-255-225. But if you can't, I've got something that might actually even be better. It's called Ask Ramsey. It's our free AI tool that's built and trained only on Ramsey Answers. So, you'll get an answer the same way we would answer it right here on the show. Uh, you can ask your question today for free at ramseysolutions.com. Click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. And in case you didn't know, and I didn't because I'm a boomer, how AI works. Yeah, I did know that AI is artificial. It's not real. That's a good start. Artificial intelligence. So it doesn't manifest its own intelligence. It only can speak from the database that has been fed to it. And so that's the problem, for instance, with, uh, Google using AI to answer your questions because they're so stupid that they're using Reddit as part of their database to answer the question. And Reddit, if you look it up on in the Greek means not true. So, um, people's opinion, it's like the TikTok in written form, you know, it's stupid stuff. But that's being entered in. So we don't have any stupid stuff in our Ask Ramsey AI because the only thing we put in there was three years of this show, answers, all the Ramsey personalities answering your questions, and all the books we've written and all the articles that we've written. And so they're all our opinion. How to work our system, how to work the baby steps. That's the only data that's in there. So that's the only possible answer that's going to come out. Um, we've almost got it as snarky as I am. It's it's about George level of snark. Not quite at that level.

>> It's not yelling at you quite yet.

>> It's just snarky. It's kind of funny. Snarky like George, not me snarky like me yet.

>> It is conversational, though, and you can have a conversation with it. So there's a back and forth, which is great, and you can enter your own information. It'll get

>> I'm really, I'm really proud of our tech team. I mean, it's it's stinking good.

>> Feedback's been amazing.

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Ash is with us in New York City. Hi, Ash. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, um, I'm 26 and I make about $100,000 a year. Uh, $100,000 a year in my salary. And I had an education loan worth $65,000. My mom originally promised that she would pay for my education. So, I went through school expecting that support. But now I'm left with the student debt, and she hasn't followed through yet. Uh, I'm I'm sort of struggling with how to handle both the financial side and the emotional side of it. I want to move forward responsibly, but I also feel hurt and honestly misled. So, what would you do in my situation? Do you have any advice for me?

>> M well, I mean, if you sat down with her over a cup of coffee and said, um, "I feel hurt and misled." What would she say?

>> She gets really emotional and then she says, "Oh, I did so much for you, and you know, this small thing is bothering you. You make so much money. Uh, I don't think a $1,000 installment should hurt you that much." And it's we just usually end up getting in an argument, and then I

>> Okay, so this is this is settled then. This is settled. She's not going to pay, and she doesn't care if it hurts your feelings.

>> That's the fact.

>> No, that that's the fact.

>> Mhm.

>> Those are facts. Those are data points. She doesn't care if it hurts your feelings. She's not going to pay it. Now, then you've got to decide what you're going to do. Okay? I'm not going to give her access to my feelings anymore. So I'm not going to talk about it with her ever again. She's not going to pay it. You are.

>> Okay.

>> Now, the next step's easy. Let's attack this debt with our great $100,000 income. How fast could you pay it off on your own?

>> Well, so I've got about $20,000 in savings. I've got $20,000 invested.

>> Good.

>> Um, I live in New York. So, I mean, my monthly expenditure is about $4,000.

>> Yeah. Great.

>> Um

>> So, you pay off the $40,000, and you got $60,000 to go, and you just lean in and knock it out. And you know that your mom is your mom. So, we can't be too mad at her, but we can be mad enough at her to go, she's not reliable. And if she promises me something ever again, I'm going to laugh and wink and not believe it because she doesn't care if it hurts your feelings.

>> Right. And then I had this conversation that if if she wanted me to pay it off, and she said, "Just send me, just pay it off for for this year. Me $10,000, and then you won't have to worry about it from like Jan 2027." So now I

>> She's not going to pay it out.

>> You're wishing for something that's not going to happen. Okay? Dogs can't climb trees. She's a dog. She ain't going to climb a tree, dude. Squirrels climb trees. Okay? She can't climb a tree. She's not going to do it. And and every every answer she gives you is telling you she's not going to do it, and that it's on you. And so the faster you just go, you know, "I I I hate that my that I have to say this about my mother, but she's an unreliable person and is not concerned about the fact that she lied to me. And that just breaks my heart, and I have a bill to pay now." And you go pay it as fast as you can, Ash. And the sooner you get it paid off, and then please don't ever believe anything else she says. So any plan she comes to you with is false.

>> The plan should have a check attached to it for $65,000 if I'm going to believe her ever again.

>> Yeah.

>> And it can't bounce. So that's the only way you go, "Okay, we're going to rebuild trust here."

>> Yeah. But she's not going to do it. I mean, there's no chance. She probably doesn't have it either, by the way. It was probably wishful thinking, and it sounded like a nice thing to say that I'll cover your education when you know

>> I believe in you, Ash. I got your back. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, this happens a lot. We hear this way too often of parents that don't want to follow through on the promise of what they were going to do with their kids' education costs. And, um, so it's yet one more reason for those of you out there that are considering taking out a student loan based on the promise of a parent, uh, to pay it, that would be a dumb idea. Um, it puts a strain on the relationship even if they do follow through and pay it.

Chris is in Fort Collins, Colorado. Hi, Chris. How are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. Um, my question to you is, uh, I lent my mom and dad $40,000 20 years ago. They put my name on their house via a quick claim in 2012, and they, and I haven't lived in their house for 40 years. Well, they both passed. They have a will that says to pay me $75,000 off the top and split the rest between myself and my three other siblings. What kind of a tax mess am I in?

>> Are you the only one on the deed, or were they on the deed with you after they quit claimed?

>> They were on the deed with me after they quit claimed.

>> Okay. So, you're you're going to need professional tax advice, but I'll take a stab at it.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Here's what would happen if they had taken themselves off completely and it was just you. When you sell the house, you're going to be taxed on every dollar above what they paid for the house,

>> Which was nothing, probably.

>> Yeah. It was, you paid $13,000, and now the house is worth $500,000.

>> Yeah. So you'd have to, you'd have capital gains tax on $500,000 if the house was in your name.

>> Mhm.

>> So you may have tax on half of that since the house is in their name and your name. You probably do. You probably have tax on that. And so what I would do is require that that tax be paid before and my $75,000 be repaid before we divvy up any proceeds. And so you need to get tax advice, figure out what your tax bill is going to be, and I would add that and make the estate pay that because you got screwed.

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Recapping George. Um, lesson for the day for some of you out there. Do not gift capital assets like stocks or real estate to your children while you're alive, except in rare circumstances. Here's why. Okay, our last caller, Chris, mom and dad quit-claimed the the house over, thinking they were doing her a favor. They were trying to do something nice, and they were ignorant of tax law. So here's how tax law works. If Chris, if again, in Chris's situation, both names were on it, so it doesn't there, but if it was just her name. So if you gift, if mom and dad gifted that property to her, basis for calculating capital gains is their basis, what they paid for it, which was $13,000 in this case. And the house sold for $513,000. Then they got a half a million dollars that's taxable.

>> That's a gain in the IRS's eyes.

>> Yeah. It's going to be a 15% gain or capital gains tax. Okay.

>> $75,000.

>> So it's a $75,000 error in that case. The reason it's an error is if her name was not on the deed and they give it to her by will after they die, her basis is the market value of the house at the time they die. So her basis would be $513,000, and she sells it within six months of death, it's presumed to have been market value, and it's presumed that there is zero tax, which just saved her $75,000 by doing it that way.

>> It's called a stepped-up basis. So the basis goes to market value if willed to you. So, if Grandpa has stock and he's got $2 million worth of Exxon stock, but he paid $10 for it, and he gives it to his grandchild before dying, they have capital gains on $2 million.

>> He just passed the hot potato right over.

>> If he waits until he dies, 10 seconds after he's dead, that stock basis for resale is the market value at the time, $2 million. Junior could sell every bit of it and have zero tax. This is huge, y'all. Quit doing crap like this without seeking tax advice and knowing what you're doing. And it's like, "Well, I don't want the government to get..." You just made sure the government's going to get it, dumb butt. It's exactly what you did. And you can't just practice law and tax law out of your ear and think you're going to get anything except screwed up. So just make a one phone call to a simple to a to a Ramsey Trusted tax person, and they'll tell you, "Don't transfer this, period." Now, again, there there might be a situation where you can use some of your gift tax exemption or you can use some of your estate tax exemption and qualify it, uh, under unified estate tax credit, and you have to fill out some forms, and you can make the move and not get into the taxes, but you still could set up a problem with income tax on the other end. And so you really need to think this stuff through. It's not as simple as, "Well, I need to protect little Chris. She gave us that $40,000, and her brothers and sisters ain't right." So I'm going to put the house in her name, make sure it's okay. Boom. Without checking. That's exactly what those sweet people did, and they screwed this up royally, and they meant well. I'll guarantee you they're not bad people. They didn't go, "Hey, let's screw Chris over." That wasn't what they meant to do.

>> Sometimes good intentions are the most expensive mistake you can make.

>> Yeah. Just don't be doing this stuff, people.

All right, James is with us. James is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi, James. How are you?

>> I'm good. How you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, man. Um, you know, I'm really interested in, um, how can I regain control of my finances? Um, I just graduated college. Um, you know, I have a good job, but I feel like I'm in control.

>> Cool. What's the good job? What are you making?

>> Um, $73, uh, base salary, and then, uh, with bonus and everything, I'll be should be around $80.

>> Good for you. Cool. Are you married?

>> I am. Well, fiance. Um, and then I have a son from my previous relationship, and then we have two kids, my fiance and I.

>> Oh, when are you getting married?

>> Um, you know, whenever she wants to. We haven't set a date yet.

>> Saturday works for me.

>> Dave is free.

>> I'll send you the invite.

>> Okay. And the, um, all right. So, what does she make?

>> So, she she stays at home. That is the, uh, that is what's best for us.

>> Yeah, Saturday works for me. All right. And, uh, she's in extreme risk right now. I don't like the position she's in. As her friend, I'm telling her to marry you now.

>> Okay.

>> Okay. Anyway, now we got that behind us. So, you got how much debt with your $80,000 job and three kids and fiance getting ready to be wife?

>> So, my student loans, that is the largest, um, $44,000. Um, I've had I've used that to supplement income all throughout, uh, my time at school. My car made a dumb, uh, purchase, uh, when my son was born. I'm not, I still owe about $20,000 on there. Um, and then my credit cards around $12, and then she has around $12 as well. Um, $12,000 on credit cards as well.

>> Gotcha. Okay. $44,000. You got $88,000. You make $80. It's going to take you, um, two and a half years of living on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you can pay all this off.

>> Okay.

>> And that's if nobody adds any income to the equation. And you ought to try to talk about somebody adding some income to this equation if you can. Um, so, and I am, I'm not being just smart-aleck only. Uh, there's all kinds of data points that says being married is going to cause you to succeed financially. And so I want, I want good things for y'all. I love y'all. I want you to win. Okay. So then we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're going to cut up the credit cards tonight. We're going to get on an EveryDollar budget tonight. We'll George and I will give you a premium version and let you get started. The two of you sit down together. Uh, and since you're going to be married on Saturday, you can go ahead and start doing it tonight like you were married. And, um, you sit down with everything and you're looking at it together and saying, "Okay, we have the this baby, and I've got these kids, and we've got this stuff we've got to take care of, and, um, you know, and we got a house, and we got to get, you know, we're going to plow through these credit cards, get rid of them. Then we're going to knock that car out, and then we're going to knock that student loan out." Meanwhile, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one. Everything but the little one. Attack the little one. Everything but the little one. And attack the little one with a vengeance. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job. And don't talk to me about a vacation. You are seriously broke. Broke people don't go on vacation. And get this mess cleaned up in the next two years. And if you get, you get kind of, you kind of hear that anger in my voice like, "Ah, right. The coach at halftime."

>> Mhm.

>> That's what I want inside of y'all. Okay? I'm trying to transfer that to you. And you get that that swagger going, and you start punching these credit cards out, knocking them in the nose, going, "You people are screwing my family's future. I hate you, City Bank. I hate you, Fifth Third. Get out of my life." Then, then when you kind of get that idea going, then then you have a villain in the story, and you are the hero. You get to go win, and it changes everything. And that's that's what I want him to do, George.

>> Yeah. What, what is your intensity level right now, James? One out of 10, would you say, to get out of this debt?

>> 20. You know, last week I sat down and I spent hours on an Excel chart because I hate where budgeting apps charge you a subscription fee. I think that's one of the biggest scams in this industry right now, man. It's it's mind-blowing. You know, you get on the app store, look up budgeting, in-app purchases, in-app purchases. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. We don't have any in-app purchases, but we do charge you a subscription fee after we give you this free portion. So, we'll give it to you for free for a while, so you don't have to worry about it. But you later on, you'll have to pay.

>> Okay.

>> I I I won't I won't hold back on that, but we have to pay. We have to pay the guys that build the app and run the thing. So,

>> If it gets you at $88,000 in debt, I'd say it was worth the purchase. But if you don't do anything with it, I agree. It was a waste of your money. So, I hope it helps you. But I just wanted to see how intense you were. And even think about selling this car if it's worth more than $20,000. Get out of that payment.

>> I think you're going to do it. I'm proud of you, man. Go do it. You're going to have a great life. You graduate. You got babies. You got a new wife. Life's going to be great, man.

>> But for now, you got to keep living like a broke college kid, which is going to be not as fun. I got a new salary. I'm a big. I got to go buy some things. Nope. You got to pay off some debt. You'll get there.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. So, why do people pay to join a gym if they can lift

>> It's a scam.

>> weights at home?

>> The environment.

>> Because they don't lift weights at home. That's why.

>> And there's some skin in the game. If I paid for something,

>> All you do is stub your toe on them. That's all they're for. Stub your toe.

>> I want to see a study. If it was a free gym membership versus a paid gym membership, who's showing up at each gym?

>> I'd be interested to see.

>> Inquiring minds want to know.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, May is mental health awareness month, and according to the National Institute of Mental Health, more than one in five US adults experience mental illness every year. And nearly half of those folks never get any help. These people are not just statistics. They're you. They're me. They're our friends. They're our neighbors. And listen, we're living in a world full of non-stop noise. All the screens, the comparison, all these notifications that are always going off. Our bodies are on high alert all the time. And we're communicating with everyone and everyone's trying to communicate with us. Yet, we're not connecting with anyone. And we all feel anxious, lonely, and more overwhelmed than ever. This stress shows up in our relationships, shows up in our sleep, it shows up in our health. It shows up right in the middle of our chest. We were never meant to have this much information and this much communication, and especially we were never meant to carry all of this alone. Talking to someone can help, and that's where BetterHelp comes in. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with a licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. Their therapists are fully licensed in the United States, and they follow a strict code of conduct. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions right in the platform, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. Cut through the noise and don't do life alone. Go to betterhelp.com/ramsey to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Janessa is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Janessa. How are you?

>> I am so good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, wonderful. Um, so me and my husband, we are struggling with a decision to make. We have decided to kind of get our butts in gear on our student loans.

>> But in the past year, we have promised our girls season passes to a local amusement park.

>> And we are trying to decide if we break our promise to our young kids and try to teach them a financial lesson, or we delay paying off our debt about two to three weeks and keep our promise.

>> Okay. Um, well, if you take sometimes if you take an ethics thing, uh, to an extreme, it'll give you the answer. Okay. So, you have information that is available to you today that was

not available to you today, or at least your viewpoint on the student loans was not the same when you made the promise. Things have changed.

>> Yes. So, if we took it to an extreme and said, "Hey, mom's got cancer and so we're not going to get the theme park things this year because we're going to pay the doctor bills." That's that's not that didn't happen. And I'm not speaking that into existence. Okay. But if it was something like that, you wouldn't have an ethics problem because it's new information.

>> Correct. Yes. And so I think the, you know, I I would sit down with them and say, "Kids, at the time we were trying to ignore these."

How old are the kids?

>> Um, we've got a six-year-old, seven-year-old, 9-year-old, and a 10-year-old.

>> Okay. Well, they're not going to remember whatever it is much past Friday anyway. But, um, but but you know what I would do is say at the time we sat down and talked about this, we thought we were able to do it. And now we've looked at our the details of our debt. And I know you don't understand that necessarily, but we are we're not in trouble. We're not going to be hungry. We're not going to lose our home, but we do have to clean up this debt. And we're going to have to get serious about it. And that means this year we're not going to be able to do the season passes unless we come up with some other way to pay for them. And you might create some

How expensive are they?

>> Um, all in all, it'd be about $1,300.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> All together.

>> And it it might be that if we come up with some kind of fun kid/parent participation adventure that is the u the GoFundMe of lemonade stands or something and um you know teach them a way. We got to go find this money if we're going to do this kids. And so we're going to have an adventure by doing these three things and we're going to cut grass or we're going to rake leaves or we're going to do this together and come up with a 1300 that that way because we can't just go buy it after what we've discovered about our debts and we've got to pay it. And so that's a third option. One option is buy it when you can't afford it. One is just look at them and go no, we can't do it. New information. Third option is, is there some kind of an adventure that we can turn this into that says, okay, the way, you know, what do we do when we're broke? We we go to work. Let's find something. Let's find something. Let's all get in here. And if y'all want to do that, we'll be able to do it. If you don't want to do that, that's okay. Uh, it'll just be next year at least because we've got to get this student loans knocked out.

>> Okay?

>> When I was 11, my parents sold our boat because they had a bad year in the real estate business. And you remember it.

>> I'm still in counseling.

>> but now Dave has multiple boats, so he's recovered.

>> I have I have recovered. I have lots of boats now.

>> His boat has its own boat. It's very impressive. So, yeah, this is a It's just delaying it. It's not a no. It's not crushing their dreams. It's just a not now. And so, when are you going to be debt-free?

>> Um, in a year.

>> Okay, great.

>> Will the theme park still be there in a year?

>> I I sure hope so.

>> Yeah.

>> Can we do something that's an alternative that maybe is free or super low cost that also is fun?

>> Um, that's what we've been talking about. Yeah. Our local pool has a swim pass for the summer we were thinking of doing instead.

>> There you go. There you go. That's a good idea.

>> So, there's still something fun for them to look forward to and their other things just delayed by a little bit. I like this plan.

>> Yeah. Our neighbors had a boat. That's what we did.

>> Find find a friend with a boat. You just saved yourself a lot of emotional hassle and finances and pickups. Find someone else that has it and use theirs. Yeah.

>> that's what I do. I borrow Dave's boats.

>> Yeah.

>> I wouldn't know how to drive it. Sadly, I'd crash.

>> You're not getting near my boat.

>> I barely could drive your little Sea-Doo. Do I almost crash that thing, so.

>> I know.

>> I haven't been on it since.

>> It's scary. It was a really scary day for me. Uh, I'm in counseling for that, too. But yeah, uh, I I think the thing is, um, I it's a bigger deal to you. This is grandpa talking, okay? Eight grandkids. It's a bigger deal to you than it is to them. This breaking your promise thing. And it's not like it's not like you have a pattern throughout their lives of setting them up and then disappointing them. Setting them up and then disappointing them. You're not that person or you wouldn't even be asking this question if you were that person. So they're fine. They're going to be okay. Uh, find an adventure to get them paid for. Buy the pool passes instead. One year from now, you'll be able to do it. And you can all talk about the time that we took a year off and got ourselves cleaned up as a family. And that's when we changed our family tree. And then when you're celebrating your 50th wedding anniversary, your kid can stand up and give a toast because of the character he witnessed when he was 11 that his parents delayed pleasure to change the family tree. That's a a great lesson learned and some character built there as well.

>> That's it. That that's what's really going to happen. Not they're going to be so disillusioned that they need counseling.

>> I would love for them to be in therapy going, "Yeah, what happened?" Well, I got a pass at 7 instead of 6. That really crushed me, man. I just don't see.

>> Never never recovered. Never came back from that one. Blake's in Washington, D.C. Hey, Blake. How can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Uh, yeah. So I just had a quick question about I'll try to keep this short like it will but I am just wondering I'm still planning out my education my career path. I just graduate graduated with my undergrad.

>> Oh, cool. What's your degree in?

>> Public public health.

>> Awesome. Public health. All right.

>> Yeah. and I want to go to podiatry school and that would be a three-year program and I do have some student loan debt from my public health degree. I graduated in three years as well and so now I'm just working and and applying for podiatry school. Uh, but because of, you know, I I feel like uh current times have changed and I feel like there's some things that I also need to change with my plan. So, I was just um actually thinking of holding back podiatry for like 2 or 3 years until I work and then I can save up that money, pay off some of my debt and then, you know, save up cash flow as well.

>> Nothing wrong with that.

>> Try to Yeah, cuz it's going to be all on my own money. But my uh family does they do want me to go straight into podiatry school starting next year. I'm just a little bit scared because I feel like that.

>> Well, they're not paying for it.

>> right? Yeah. Yeah.

>> Well, they don't get a vote.

>> Um,

>> you only get a vote if you're paying for it.

>> Yeah, I I definitely understand.

>> You can have an opinion, but you don't get a vote. And the opinion is is that it's no big deal for you to go deeply in debt. No big deal to them.

>> So, I wouldn't let them pressure me unless they're writing the check along with it.

>> I I I think they mean well, but they don't see this as big a problem as you do, or you wouldn't even be calling here. So, I like your plan better, Blake. Hey guys, healthcare is one of the biggest stress points in your budget. It's confusing and most of the time it feels completely out of your control. But there is a better way to handle it. Christian Healthcare Ministries isn't health insurance. It's a health cost sharing ministry where Christians share each other's medical bills. And it's not a new idea. CHM has been around since 1981. It's predictable and proven. And they've shared over 13 billion dollars in medical bills for their members. Plus, you get more flexibility. There are no network restrictions. And you don't have to wait for open enrollments. Now, let's talk about how CHM helps your budget because programs start at just $115 a month and many families save hundreds of dollars a month compared to traditional options. So, if you are tired of feeling stuck, check out Christian Healthcare Ministries. Right now, CHM is offering new members a 50% credit towards their first month of membership. Go to chministries.org/budget org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. That's chministries.org/budget and use promo code Ramsey. Noah is in Hawaii. Hi, Noah. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So I am in a bit of a kuffle. Um, I have moved home to uh try to help my dad with his business. Uh, we're in construction. Um, and we are digging into the finances. Um, I've been listening to the show for a long time. I am currently trying to get myself out of debt. I'm 4 grand away. Um, but have come to find out that Father at 61 has saved nothing for retirement. Um, it is met every time with I'll figure it out or it's not your problem. But Dave, I feel like it is my problem. You know, he's my dad and I've got to take care of him at some point.

>> Well, that's sweet, but it's not your problem.

>> He's right.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. Really?

>> Okay.

>> You're $4,000 in debt. You're broke. You came home to try to help him with his business. That's your problem. And uh, you keep that running. He, you know, he he's a grown 61-year-old man. He should take care of it.

>> I mean, he's not he's not mentally disabled.

>> You're right about that. Yeah. So, it's not your problem. I mean, if he if he was, you know, if he had a brain injury or something, maybe you'd want to go, okay, I need to help my dad, right? But all he is is bullheaded.

>> Fair enough.

>> Did you ask him why he hasn't put a cent away for 40 years?

>> Um, I I think the conversation scares him. I don't think he knows what what to do about it. And I think it's gotten to a point where avoidance is the only technique.

>> I think you can end up helping him. And I'll give you an idea. But first thing I want you to do is release this emotional burden of having to carry your dad. Okay? But the way you help him is this. You finish turning this business around, getting yourself out of debt, and then the more you get involved in the running of the business, set up a 401k at the business and sign him up for it.

>> Okay.

>> I mean, he's probably going to work another 10 years, isn't he?

>> Uh, I'm hoping he's able to. Um, it's it's.

>> How many people how many people on your construction team?

>> Uh, so right now we've just come down to three. So it's him, myself, and an accounts manager. Then everything else for the most part we subcontract out.

>> Okay. So he's not physically straining.

>> So.

>> you know, um, the the issue with with his kind of thing here is that he's he's kind of avoiding technology and you've got a bunch of other companies coming in and kind of taking over. See, you can fix that too is to the extent you take over the running of the business.

>> If you guys keep running the business and you continue to insert yourself in the operations of the business and you help with the technology and you help grow the business and you help keep it alive and and you know, if you can't do that, then y'all need to shut the thing down and you need to go both get go get a job, right? But if you can do that, while you're doing that, you could reach over to a Ramsey Smart Investor Pro and set yourself up a simple 401k in there and just sign him up and start dumping company money in his name into it and dump company money in your name into it.

>> Awesome.

>> And you know, it's almost almost against his will, but you tell him, you go, "Hey, I just set up a 401k. I'm going to be putting my money in or putting our money into me and our money into you, and I need you to sign this right here. Shut up. Sometimes you got to sneak the vegetables in for their own good."

>> Eat your broccoli. Yeah.

>> Does he have any money saved? Is he like a tin can guy? Like does he have anything or is he really just can't live on less than he makes?

>> Well, so the company does well enough to where when he needs money, he just draws it out.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, and so he has got nothing saved. I believe from what the digging that I've been doing, he's got about eight grand in debt, which is nice. That's not much. And he makes enough to pay it. Um, but yeah. No, nothing in savings. No emergency savings.

>> No other assets.

>> Yeah. So, part of your uh business job to grow this business is to take the the inner workings of the business and make them more sophisticated. You knew that already and you were the one told us that. And as you're doing that, you get your debts paid off, his debts paid off. You get you start in instituting some financial systems as part of it. And one of those financial systems is what's called a simple 401k. It's a 401k uh or simple IRA. It's a 401k for businesses, for small businesses your size. And um, and and you know, it's real easy to set up, very inexpensive to set up except for the money that you stick into it. And so then you guys when you go make some money, you don't have any debt payments. You've got some savings in the business called retained earnings. That's part of your systems. You're building your technology base. you're competing, you're even getting ahead of the competition out there and the way you're doing the jobs and in the process your profits go up and you start chunking a bunch of them into the retirement. That's how you take care of him is almost against his will. But I don't want you feeling like you failed as a son if a full-bodied full-brained 61-year-old didn't take care of themselves. That's not your a failure on your part. You have done nothing wrong. I'm not going to guilt trip you for I don't and I don't want you to guilt trip yourself.

>> You can't and shouldn't fund his lifestyle for the rest of his life once he's done working.

>> Yeah.

>> That's a bad plan.

>> By 61 or so, somewhere in there you should grow up somewhere in there. I'm trying still, but I'm still still trying, but I'm getting there.

>> All right, Ricky. Ricky's with us. Ricky's in Orange County. Hi, Ricky. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. How you doing? Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. Um, I'll I'll just paint a picture as to what the situation is. So um, I'm in California so I'm considered in under their world of high net worth uh based on my income. I have about 5 million in equities, two little over 2 million in 401k on top of that. So so we're looking about seven. Income around 600 a year.

>> Good for you.

>> Now my question to you my question to you is this. It's bothering me that based on discussing with my CPA that the house that I live in uh I guess around 6,000 sq ft house I bought it for 2.5 mil maybe it's worth 4344 today. Um, the mortgage is about 1.1. Um, and I know I've been listening to you a long time but I I feel I want to continue to keep the mortgage because the it's it's free money. It's at 2.2 two 2.3% fixed. But that's a separate issue. But the bottom reason why I'm asking is question is I have a lot of equity sitting there roughly around 3 million and I could be uh given the fact of my my income is not allowing me to write off any of the $30,000 a year in taxes for property taxes. I have zero write off on that. They won't allow me to write off any of the interest. So I'm thinking like based on my return that I'm on my equities, whether it's the 401k or the other 5 million. Um, I'm averaging, you know, maybe 12% a year. Um, in in in good indexes and um, and the amount of money I could be making 250 300,000 a year on that equity, I'm better off maybe renting given I'm uh given my I'm not getting any benefit of the write off of being a homeowner. And I don't think in this country necessarily it's a benefit to be a homeowner if you're if you're not getting the ability to.

>> Your analysis the problem is your analysis is based on a moment in time rather than projecting into the future. And so your analysis is flawed.

>> Okay.

>> And so so I'm calling bull crap on your statement that in America today it's not a good idea to own a house. That's just bull crap. So because you're looking at this particular moment in time, you forgot the fact that this house has gone up several million dollars while you owned it. You seem to leave that out of the equation.

>> But true, but then again, if I were to put, you know, uh I based on the money.

>> California real estate has done better than mutual funds.

>> ROI, return on investment.

>> Right? Of course.

>> Period. Okay. It's done better. it. Yeah, you can't write off the taxes. Welcome to your socialistic state. But that's, you know, that's the problem that you got where you chose to live. But the the issue is that re California real estate remains an excellent investment. And and so no, I no renting and, you know, putting all your equity in an S&P does not outperform owning real estate. I own a whole bunch of both. I believe in both. Uh, and all the people that we know that have 10 to $60 million net worth that we coach, my net worth several hundred million, uh, own a good mixture of real estate and mutual funds and they've owned their own home paid for for decades. They haven't overanalyzed this. Let me tell you something I see all the time. People are working hard trying to get control of their money and then their phone bill shows up higher than expected again and they don't even know why. That's why I want you to switch to Boost Mobile. Here's the truth. Your phone bill should fit your budget, not the other way around. Your wireless company is counting on you just paying it without asking questions. With Boost Mobile, you can unlock big savings compared to the so-called big guys. Bring your phone, keep your number, and pay just $25 a month forever on their unlimited plan. No contracts, no confusing fees, and that $25 price is locked in forever. And if you're skeptical, that's fine. Boost Mobile backs it up with a 30-day money back guarantee, meaning you can try it without feeling trapped. So stop overpaying for something you use every day. Go to boostmobile.com/ramsey to make the switch today. That's boostmobile.com/ramsey. $25 forever requires customers to remain active on Boost Mobile Unlimited plan. So, George, the uh Ramsey Show live recordings that we've done in all these different cities, Charlotte and Denver, they're a big hit.

>> Oh, yeah. We had a blast doing them in April and we finally released the very first one. Charlotte dropped last week. Denver episode releases later this week. We got Phoenix and Anaheim coming in the next few weeks. And uh I was on that one with Rachel and Ken. We had 300 people filled with live questions. So you actually get to see the person asking the question. And even better, we bring the spouse or boyfriend up.

>> And does that make you meaner or nicer?

>> You have to be nicer.

>> You have to be a little nicer. You can kind of poke a little more as which is fun and be a little snarkier with the live audience because they can tell it's for entertainment purposes and you kind of get the crowd on your side or against you. And so that kind of adds a whole another element to it. So my favorite was, "How much should my boyfriend spend on an engagement ring?" And you know, Rachel and he's there. So we bring him up to say, "Hey, you tell me, bud." And so that got into some juicy debates.

>> That's a good one.

>> So if you want to go watch it, it's live on our Ramsey Show YouTube channel, Spotify, Ramsey Network app, go check it out. It's like nothing you've seen before on this show with a live audience like that.

>> That's fun. Very fun. So yeah, we got four cities. Denver, Charlotte's already up. Denver will be up this week and then you'll see Phoenix and Anaheim come on in the next few weeks. You don't want to miss these. Every one of the Ramsey personalities had a blast being out there with you folks. So, uh, thank you all for showing up. We appreciate you. John is in Nashville. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I am 23 and I am debt-free. Um, I when I first graduated, I took out a truck loan and all that and I I got it all figured out. Um, so right now I have no debt. I got about 35,000 saved up and uh trying to figure out what I should do next.

>> Wow, that's impressive. Good job. What do you make?

>> Um, I make about 60,000 a year. Um, and I work for family business and that's part of my issue is is coming up with that.

>> What's the issue?

>> So, at first at first it was me, mom and dad in the restaurant every day and everything was going great and it seemed like more of the responsibilities were getting pushed my way. And now it's me in there every day and mom and dad don't really work anymore. and he he gave me a business card that said, "I'm owner operator, but I'm making about 20 bucks an hour." And my mom, you know, I don't I don't want them to work all the time, but you know, mom's working no days a week and dad will work, you know, one day a week.

>> They own it.

>> That's they own it, right?

>> So, it's a formality that it's you're not an owner operator, right?

>> You're an employee. I have business cards that say I am.

>> That's of no value whatsoever. Okay. Well, I mean, could you get a job at another restaurant if you were the general manager of another restaurant and you were responsible for the operations? What would you make?

>> Um, well, I'm not exactly sure. I I applied for BIES in Murfreesboro. I applied to be the assistant manager up there and it does pretty good.

>> Um,

>> what does that pay? But I hadn't I don't It pays 33 plus uh benefits and retirement.

>> Mhm.

>> See, right now I'm a 1099. See, here's my issue. So, he kicked me out of the house. Understandable. I'm 23. You know, it's about time.

>> Mhm.

>> And so, I came and got an apartment and started looking at one day getting my own home. And I'm a 1099 employee.

>> No, you're not.

>> And uh.

>> You're not supposed to be.

>> Oh, I'm not.

>> Yeah. that y'all y'all are screwing that up. You're going to make a mess. You You're not an employee. I mean, you're not a 1099. 1099 is an independent subcontractor. You're an employee. They're going to they're going to get their butt fined by the IRS big time. You're you guys are going to end up with tax penalties and all kinds of stuff. You need you need your family needs to get some professional tax advice on how they do payroll.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. This is going to that's going to get ugly. It's going to end up with a mess. But I think we got a bigger mess, and that is is that your parents walked off and handed you this thing, but they didn't really hand it to you. So, I think y'all are just going to sit down and go, "Okay, Dad, what's the plan? I'm going to I'm going to need to get with a tax person. I've gotten financial advice that says I'm going to get messed up on this 1099, and you're going to get messed up when we get audited. You're not going to like it." So, we need to get that fixed. And then we need to get me in there as the general manager, and I need to be paid like a general manager, which is a base salary plus a percentage of profits. Okay.

>> And it's not an hour. It's not an hourly. It's not an hourly rate.

>> Let's see. And And uh.

>> I'm sorry. I I hate to keep interrupting you. What kind of revs is the restaurant producing?

>> Um, we do about about 2,000 a day. So that'd be 12,000 a week because we're close Sunday. So that's about 50,000 a month roughly. Now we got a food truck. So sometimes those numbers can change. Um, but but just in the restaurant, that's what I do. They they'll do the food truck um when we do it. Now, this year they decided we're we're only going to do it about five times this year.

>> Is this their retirement plan? Like is all are they basically getting paid from the business and don't have anything else?

>> I'm not sure if we got a plan.

>> That's my fear.

>> It's really starting to bother me.

>> Yeah. I think you need to sit down and say we've Okay, Dad. We need to formalize this. BIES is going to make me an offer at 33 plus benefits. and properly pay me on a W2. And so, if I'm going to stay in here and I'm going to do all the work, I'm going to need to be paid like a general manager because I'm g I'm your general manager. And that's going to be a base salary. Uh, that's the equivalent of $40 an hour for a 40-hour week, but you're probably going to put in more than 40 hours plus a percentage of profits as your bonus. And then you need to close the books on the restaurant each month and tell what the profits are each month.

>> Well, see that that's part of my problem is I pay all the employees. I buy all the supplies. So, I I know I can do simple math. I know how much he's making.

>> And too.

>> It's a lot lot more than me, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> And uh.

>> I mean, you are you are only 23, but you are doing the job. And so, regardless of your age.

>> and your experience or whatever, if you're giving a job, you should be paid to do that job. I'm not asking you to be paid more than the job is worth, but if you weren't there, they would have to hire a general manager for a salary of 30, 40 bucks an hour average and some kind of a bonus kick based on profits. That's what you would get paid in that business. Agreed.

>> Yes, sir.

>> And if you weren't there, that's what they got to do. So, if you take the job at BIES, that's what they're going to have to do. They're going to have to hire somebody.

>> Right? And I'm I'm about at the point to where I'm I'm about to just start looking and applying just about anywhere cuz it's getting it's been a little overwhelming.

>> I think you sit down, have a cup of coffee before you do that and say, "Mom and dad, I got a problem. I'm about at the point that I need to go do something else." The way we can solve that is I need to be paid for being the general manager and I'm going to close the books and we're going to get a base salary and a and a percentage of profits for being the general manager and we're going to develop a plan where I become the owner of this a little bit at a time overtime and um meanwhile you guys are going to make a lot of money and you don't have to work as much. I'll take care of running the thing, but if you don't want to pay me to the proper amount to do the job that you've got, then I need to go work somewhere else and you need to get somebody in here that's going to enjoy doing this.

>> Which by the way, you can't get for $20 an hour.

>> Right? Um.

>> That's fair. I mean, you sit and have that conversation with them. And if they say, "Screw you. You're supposed to work for free," then go get a job somewhere else and let them figure it out. They're not going to say that.

>> That's what worries me. When I told him that, hey, I'm.

>> When I told him, hey, I'm looking for a new job. It's kind of like he got aggressive and.

>> He took it as a.

>> Right. And I didn't want to I don't want to mess up my family situation. You know.

>> You're not messing it up. They are.

>> Okay.

>> All you're doing is talking about it.

>> And I wouldn't say I'm going to quit if you don't do this. But I would say, "Dad, if we can't work something out that's reasonable here, I'm going to be forced to do something different." And if he wants to get aggressive based on that, then go do something different. Cuz you're going to get aggressive every time you have a conversation about this business.

>> And then you're going to build resentment.

>> Can't have a conversation.

>> Ruin the relationship anyways.

>> Yeah. I mean, my son and I get in arguments. We run Ramsey together, but we don't get an argument every time we're together. We're most of the time we don't have an argument, but occasionally we just like, no, we fuss and fight.

>> We fight like grown-ups.

>> Yeah, we fight like grown-ups. We're arguing about an idea. We're not personally offended like a four-year-old. Okay, guys, let me ask you something. What would it take for you to switch your bank? Because if you're still earning next to nothing on your savings, you need to check out Fairwinds Credit Union. And I know what you're thinking. It might sound like a hassle. Moving your direct deposit, updating bills, getting a new debit card feels like a lot. But here's what most people don't realize. Staying where you are could be costing you hundreds of dollars every year. Y'all, the average savings account pays less than half a percent. So, let's say for example, you got $20,000 saved. You might earn around $70 a year. But with a Fairwinds high yield savings account earning 3% APY or more, that same money could earn you over $600. And that's real money that you can use towards the baby steps. So, don't let temporary comfort keep you stuck. Check out the smart bundle from Fairwinds Credit Union. You get a high yield savings account, a no-fee checking account, and the Ramsey Be Weird debit card. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey to learn more and make the switch today. That's fairwinds.org/ramsey. Insured by the NCUA. Our question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. When you fall behind on paying back your private student loans, it can feel like your life's being held hostage. But Yrefi helps borrowers explore a fresh start with low fixed rate refinancing and a payment plan designed around their ability to pay. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey. That's the letter Y, R E F I.com/ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Dylan in New Mexico. I'm aware of your recommendation to invest your money evenly in four funds, small cap, midcap, large cap, and international. I also hear you guys regularly reference the average annual return of the S&P over the last 30 to 50 years. Can you provide some insight into how his investment protocol has performed compared to the S&P? If mimicking S&P performance is the key metric, why wouldn't he recommend just parking your money in an S&P index fund?

>> That's a great question. He I assume meaning Dave per your recommendation for for many many years now.

>> All right. So inside how this investment's performed compared to the S&P. Well, the small cap, midcap, large cap, international, there's not a a one fund that we can look at to compare to the S&P. But the S&P largely is a bunch of, you know, midcap and large cap companies if you look at the makeup of that. So it's just not as diversified as what you're mentioning.

>> Exactly. So here's the thing. Individual mutual funds uh in the growth mutual fund sector uh less than half of them beat the S&P and that was um the guy that started the Vanguard S&P index fund, Bogle, John Bogle was brilliant and he he discovered that and so he came up with this idea of where you hear the phrase passive investing, that's where it first came from where you don't have to worry about about it. You just buy the S&P. Screw it. Because half the mutual funds don't even beat it.

>> And those people that do that are passive investors, sometimes called Bogleheads. Uh, because John was actually on to something. His actual data was correct and is correct. Um, to this day, half the growth stock mutual funds do not outperform the S&P. But that also means it's kind of like there's a 60% chance of rain, there's a 40% chance of sunshine. Hello. So I have picked in the four categories four mutual funds that have outperformed their indexes. Now, the small cap, the index would be the Russell because a small cap is uh not necessarily it's more like a an aggressive growth stock mutual fund, right? A midcap would be like a growth that's more like a that's a typical growth mutual fund. Large cap, typical growth stock mutual fund. you said the S&P is a mix of those two. And then obviously international, a foreign fund, that's a different index. Okay. So, what I want to do is pick a fund that outperforms the no-brain way of doing it, the passive way of doing it. And so if I've got a mutual fund that for 35 years has outperformed the S&P and it's a growth stock mutual fund and I put that in my four. I've got a SN I've got a small cap that's outperformed the Russell and I put that in my four and so on. Well, guess what? The four of them as a group are going to outperform the the group of indexes unless they don't do as well as they did in the last 25 years or whatever the number was of the history on the things. So, my particular four mutual funds that most of my stuff is in that that has outperformed the indexes has outperformed the S&P because I didn't pick one of them that didn't. That's why.

>> And the other piece of this that we're not factoring in is that that international fund, which we recommend 25%. If you look at the S&P 500 and it's down in a given year, the international fund usually is up.

>> Yeah. It pretty much runs the inverse. And so even if in a given year if the index, you know, beat your mutual fund setup, you're not factoring in the long term of what could happen in the market.

>> But it never has. I my my the four I picked has always outperformed the S&P every single year.

>> So if the average in the S&P is 10 to 12, you might be seeing 13 14.

>> Yeah. I've not gotten 10 points more. Not.

>> It's not 20%.

>> And here's the thing. Let's go back on this too. It's very interesting. I mean, the way I'm doing it is actually mathematically beating it. So it does answer the guy's question. But the problem with this discussion is always that somebody's having this hypothetical if I had done this thing. And and when we actually have figured out that people who invest in slightly substandard mutual funds way outperform those who never invest.

>> Or those who jump out or those who are in single stocks.

>> Those who analyze everything to the point that they've got an anal problem with it, right? And it's like, you guys, would you shut up and invest because 100% of the people that invest end up with more money than those that don't every time. And that's the number you need to concentrate on. And so if.

>> It's not mutual funds versus index funds.

>> If you actually do the index fund versus the person that believes what we believe and doesn't do anything, I'm on your side. I'm glad I got you to invest in something because if you just put money away, you'll have some money. It's magical. And so like for instance, as we studied the m all the millionaires we studied, most of them were not super sophisticated investors. They c they didn't spend a lot of time analyzing like Dylan is what this is and what I should do and D. There's not a lot of theoretical mumbo jumbo.

>> They weren't prodigies. They were people. Uh, I got a 401k at work and I'm gonna put some money in a growth stock mutual fund and now I'm a millionaire. And that's exactly what they did. I mean, they really didn't they picked out their mutual fund based on what the guy in the cubicle next to them was doing. They did not do some kind of sophisticated uh think tank analysis. But here's the trick. They did put money in investments. They didn't sit around and talk about it and NOT DO IT. THAT'S the problem. So, you know, the percentages all go out the window until you actually do it.

>> Yeah. Whether it's 12 or 13% doesn't matter if you have no money in the market.

>> So, all that to say, Dylan, I have four mutual funds that have outperformed the S&P for 30 years as a group. Not hard to do. It's really not that tough to do. You can have your Smart Investor Pro say, "Show me some mutual funds that have a 25-year track record of outperforming the S&P." They can do it. They're there. Not all of them, less than half, but they're there. Okay? And you can put that little portfolio together and if it does what it did in the past, it will outperform the S&P. Mine half. But if you don't want to do that and you just want to put it in the S&P, you're going to end up with a lot of money. We'll all end up rich.

>> And we'll be happy for you. We're not mad at you. But that's the answer to your overall question.

>> What a great nerdy discussion.

>> It is a fun.

>> By the way, you actually cover how to pick mutual funds in our Investing Essentials virtual event. We've got one coming up later this year. Uh, so if you guys want to learn more about that, you can sign up for updates at ramseysolutions.com/events. But that's where if you want to nerd out like this, you're interested in this kind of conversation, you want to know how to build wealth the right way in depth, we'll walk you through it in that event.

>> Yeah. And and but here's the thing. I I go the we have talked more people into putting money in their 401k and Roth IRAs than anybody in America because we got them out of debt so that they could do it and then they believed us and so they went and did it.

>> It's a margin issue and a little bit of education.

>> And then there's some not Dylan, but there's some, you know, on the internet going, "Well, Dave Ramsey's created more poor people." No, he didn't. He got people to invest while you're sitting with your thumb in your ear.

>> You weren't listening very well if Dave Ramsey made you poor. I mean,

>> that's pretty wild. That's just But that's they said, you know, because he doesn't understand. He doesn't understand how. Yes, I do understand it, you idiot. Of course, I understand it. But what I'm better at than you are is getting people to actually invest instead of discussing freaking theory. Theory doesn't matter until it's applied. You know, I really don't care what you think about swinging a baseball bat until you swing one, honey. And then we'll talk about whether you can connect. That's how this works. You got a lot of theory going on out there. You got a lot of people that have an opinion out there, that have no stinking money. It's all these life coaches that don't have a life. It's the same thing, you know. And so, guys, just invest. Even if you do it wrong, you're doing it better than the who talks about it and never does it.

>> It's like a bunch of out of shape people talking about workout routines and which one's better. It's like, yeah, great. Let's go work out. How about that?

>> Arnold Schwarzenegger has created more fat people. No, he didn't. No, he didn't. It's just that's just dumb. Okay, seriously. But here's the trick. If you invest, you're going to have some money. Oo.

>> And if you don't invest,

>> you're not going to have any money. Take the money away. You're not going to have any money. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Joshua's in Houston, Texas. Hey Joshua, what's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me on your show. I appreciate you taking the call.

>> Sure. How can I help?

>> Let me uh let me give you kind of like a brief backstory. I'm 31 years old. I work as an HVAC technician. I make around $92,000 a year, but I still feel like I'm drowning financially and living paycheck to paycheck. Over the last year, I spent $22,000 fighting a custody battle for my son, which I al ultimately lost and kind of wrecked me financially. Right now, I have about $17,000 through uh a loan, another 28,000 through an Affirm loan, and then I have some credit card debt, about $3,500, and then I owe some family members around $7,500 because they help with my attorney fees. Um, I have some student loan, but I'm in a forgiveness program with them. Uh, which I have like zero dollar payments, but they're expected to be forgiven in about 30 years. I've also been in a debt settlement program for about a year now uh through National Debt Relief, and I pay them about $63 a month while they're working to settle my debts. I pay about 20 to 250 a month in rent, 650 in child support, and they also may be increasing that soon. Uh, I pay $750 a month in health insurance through work. Um, and I pay $520 a month for my truck, which is about to be paid off in two months, thank God. Um, and other monthly bills, obviously. But I feel like no matter how much I work, I can't get ahead. And I also want to buy a house soon, but I I feel stuck.

>> You're not buying a house soon. You're not buying a house anytime soon. You're broke. You You got a lot of cleanup to do before you buy a house. So, let's just set that on the side.

>> And then and I mean, okay.

>> And you're getting ready to have the truck paid off. So, that's going to free up a bunch of money. You do know where your money's going. It wouldn't take you long to build your every dollar budget because you've got most of the numbers in your head that are pretty clear. And I still hear room in this. I still hear room in what you've got.

>> Um, but what you've done is you've been focusing on the heartache of a uh custody battle. And you've been focusing every single dollar that you could towards that. And that's been a valid distraction for a year. And now that distraction has passed because you lost. And now you know where you stand and now you've got to turn around and focus back on cleaning up your mess. But you really weren't working on the mess before and so it was sitting there or getting bigger and now you can work on it. I think you're going to be okay.

Well, my question really truly is like now, should I get out of the debt settlement program and pay the $63 that I paid them and just pay them uh pay my creditors.

directly. Probably, you can do what they're doing on your own without tanking your financial world because they told you to stop making payments, goes into collections, then they try to settle. I've already done. Yeah, I've done that for about a. I've been doing cuz I did it. I've done it like twice now. I've gone through different programs, but I've been doing it for about two years.

Yeah. You keep looking for one of these programs to straighten you out and you got to straighten you out. And that's kind of where it's like I've never really had any real instruction on how to put money away while trying to pay off those debt. You don't need to put money away. We need to clean up the debt. That's. And then don't go into any more debt.

Yeah. First thing is don't borrow more. The second thing is we're going to get on a detailed written budget. We're going to give you every dollar. Our budgeting app once you sit down tonight and fill it all out. It's really not hard. I mean, I actually have that app. Okay. We'll start using it tonight. It's going to guide you through step by step exactly what to do and how to build that out and then stick to it. And you make enough to pay all these bills and extra on these bills and get rid of them. Particularly when you get your car paid off, that's going to free up another $500 bucks a month to be able to attack this stuff with. And then if you want to stay in the debt settlement thing until you get this moving, that's fine. If you want to step out of it, that's fine. If you want to check with Guardian Litigation, they're a different type of program, but they do similar thing. They don't work the same way uh that we endorse. You could talk to them and see what they can do. But I think more than anything, you've got to take control of this and you've been focusing your energies emotionally, spiritually, financially on other things. And that's valid because it was a kid and you need to take care of that kind of stuff first. But now, now we know where we stand. And now it's time to focus on the best dad you can be. And that is cleaning up your life and getting this mess cleaned up. Because dude, if you didn't have any payments, you'd have money to stack. You got serious payments going around that place from everywhere. And no, we're not waiting 30 years. Pay off the stupid student loans. They're just the last thing we're going to get to. When you get to them, knock them out, too. List your debts, smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance. So, hang on. I'll send you a copy of the Total Money Makeover book also, which shows you exactly how to do this stuff. And you can go you can read it to go with your every dollar app and you'll be fine and you call us back if you want more help but more than anything it's focus and being very intentional and I think you can do it with the numbers you gave me. You really do know what you're where you stand and that's pretty stinking cool.

All right, Junior is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Junior. How are you? Hey, I'm doing well. Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Doing well, doing well. So, a what what the reason why I'm calling is because a couple of years ago, um we went through Hurricane Helen. And unfortunately with Hurricane Helen, we had a a couple of things that ended up happening um with the devastation to our home and our property. Um things like, you know, our roof. It's in Augusta. Augusta hit us hard. Oh, okay. Oh man. Yeah. Um, so in Augusta, we got hit pretty hard with Hurricane Helen and and you know, our roof, our uh deck again, our fence and and now we had a power surge ended up messing up our AC unit. Uh, fast forward, we've been doing band-aid repairs.

Did you not get an insurance settlement at the time? So, so we tried to go through the insurance at the time. We had All State and All State told us that we had a clause that uh any typhoon, cyclone or hurricane related damage was a 10% deductible on the of the entire dwelling coverage. My my home's value is about $360,000. So out of pocket, they wanted us to come out first $36 grand roughly. And so what's it going to cost you out of pocket now if you do it on your own? To do all the repairs on our own? Mhm. Well, right now we're we're going through getting all the estimates for everything that needs to be done. Um we've thankfully we've been approved and and I say thankfully uh lightly because for a loan uh hang on we'll be right back with you. We want to make sure we get the good all the details and we'll be back with you in a minute.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent. That's ramseysolutions.com/.

Junior. He's got a house in Augusta, Georgia. was damaged by Hurricane Hela a couple of years ago. All State doesn't pay out on typhoons and hurricanes. He discovered after the fact, so I'm guessing you have different insurance now that you figured out All State's not a good idea. And um they pay out, but they wanted a 10% deductible of $300 or $30,000 on a $300,000 house. So now he's got all these repairs that still remain undone. And that's about how far we got in the discussion. Does that sound right, Junior? Yes, sir. That's correct.

Okay. So, what repairs remain to be done today? We are still getting an inspection on our roof. Um thankfully, uh one person mentioned that it it's looking good. There's no need to go into the uh into into the attic. Um I need to replace an AC unit. Our deck is completely done for. Um and it's only deteriorated over the past year and a half. The AC has never been fixed since the hurricane. It's been b we've had a couple of band-aid fixes and then finally the condenser has finally gone out and they said that all that's left to be done now is to um. So you got to put a new heat and air unit on it and you need a new deck. Correct. And that's what we need. Correct.

Okay. And the deck has been that way for two years and the heat and air unit just finally gave up the ghost after some band-aids. So, uh, have you gotten three or four bids on the heat and air unit? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. What do those bids look like? What do they look like? Yeah, you're we're averaging $10,000, $11,000 uh just depending on what the uh you know, what the type of the the air unit is? Yeah. And uh and what's your household income, sir? We're at about $175,000 between my wife and I.

Okay. So, why can you not come up with $10 grand making $175,000? Well, the the the reason why is because since the hurricane, we've had so we've had two major life events in the past couple of years. So, one, my grandfather passed, which um anyways, we had some major uh some major expenses come out of that. Unfortunately, we've also had some just uh mal money management. So, we are currently in debt. uh what we've truly never have been as far as credit card debt goes.

So, how much debt do you have? We've got we've got about $30,000 in debt right now. So, why can you not come up with $10,000 with $30,000 in debt making $175 grand? $175,000, man. Really? I mean, are you taking home $10 grand a month? Uh, no. We So after after all our taxes are taken out, our takehome is probably about um I want to say maybe about $6,500. No, it's not. You're taking home $72 out of $175. No, there's not $100,000 worth of taxes. Nope. Nope. Are you putting money in your 401k? No. No, we stopped that when. How much is your How much is your Are you taking health insurance out? What else is coming out of your check? Yep. So, health insurance is coming out. Um, so we do owe on our on two vehicles. Out of your check. Uh, I'm sorry. My apologies. I'm just I'm pointing out the monthly expenses. I'm talking about what hits your bank account. Here's the thing. $175,000. That's $15,000 a month. Okay, you with me? Yep. Minus taxes, you should be coming home with $12. And $12 minus your house payment, you should be able to save up $10 grand and fix your heat and air. But you guys are just running in circles chasing your tail instead of getting on a system and making these these dollars behave as you said, mal handling, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. And so, uh, you got that that's how you ended up with $30,000 in debt. Um, I'm sorry your grandfather passed, but that didn't cost you any money, did it? Um, well, the overnight um travel for the family and just the day. A few hundred a few hundred bucks or something, but it really wasn't I mean, it's not. It was it was heartbreaking and it's tragic. I don't I'm not not diminishing that, but we don't confuse those things with the math impact. So, you make enough money to have cleaned up this mess long ago. And that's what you should do. You should cash flow the heating and air. And then you should begin to work on paying down your debt and talking about putting together some money to fix the deck and uh out of your monthly income. And are you getting a big tax refund every year? Yes. Okay. I thought you might be. So, you probably need to look at that. You probably have too much coming out of your check and you're getting it back at the end of the year. Correct. We uh I we we claim zero. Okay. What was your refund this year? This year being the biggest one that's it's it's been. Yeah. This year was about nine $9,000. Okay. Where did that go? So we we we still have it in in a in a savings. So you can almost cash flow the AC unit. So, use it to buy a heat and air unit. Why are you getting approved for loans? Well, this one was through the SBA. The loan. So, correct. I don't care what it's through. I don't care if it's through your mama. You don't need a loan. You have the money in your bank account to buy heating and air. Go fix the heating and air and start getting the money that you have coming into the house. And you need to change your take-home pay by $700 a month now. And and that's the minimum you need to change it by. So that'll at least that. And go in and change your go in tomorrow at work. Tell payroll you need an extra $700 a month coming out of your check. Pull the money out of your savings. Order a heat and air unit. Call the guy and tell him if it's cash, what's the discount? Because I'm going to give you cash. Like Benjamin's. What's the discount? And I want a discount. I want you to get over here and get this thing fixed now. Then I want you to get four bids on the deck. And I want you to find some guy at your church that's looking for work that knows how to build decks and get him to build the deck for you at a deal. And he gets work and you get to use some money to do that. And you got $700 a month now to put towards fixing that deck. And then you start getting rid of these credit cards. You get them out and chop them up. So you just got to sit down by the way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. You list these different things out that are going on and you fix them one. Fix that one. Then fix that one. Then fix that one. Then fix that one. And you've been very passive and stood back and all of this has happened to you and you're being a perpetual freaking victim. And you need to stop it, man. It's killing you. I mean, I talked to you for seven, eight minutes before you finally revealed to me you have the money in your savings account to buy your heating and air. You buried the lead. That's how screwed up your brain is right now. So, dig into this stuff, man. Dig into it and get it laid out like it was your job because it is your job. That's what you got to do.

Anna is in New York. Hey, Anna. What's up? Hey, George and Dave. Very excited to be speaking to you guys today. So, I recently learned earlier today that my husband um was hiding. I would say hiding um not being fully honest with $40,000 worth of credit card debt and I am unsure how to proceed in both our relationship and paying it off. Wow, you're being very calm. I'm trying. Is he alive? Why did he do this? Let him out of the closet, Anna. You can't lock him in the closet. That's illegal. Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, you rebuild trust one brick at a time by being trustworthy. And so, it's not instantaneous and it's not a system and there's not a switch you flip. So, he has violated trust. Whether he did it because of shame and didn't want to tell you about it or deception, which is even worse. Either way, I think it's the former. Yeah. Either way, he he you know, he he regains trust by being extremely transparent. Both of you getting on the same page and every single transaction is in front of both of you for the rest of your lives. And then you sit down and you go, "Okay, with our income, how are we going to pay off this $40 freaking thousand? We're going to cut up the stupid card and we're going to attack it and knock it out as fast as we possibly can.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com/.

Well, we love debtfree screams. We love debtree screams on the debtree stage in the Ramsay Solutions lobby. We especially love them when it's our own team members. So, Gabe is with us. Gabe Fox is a copywriter here at Ramsey Solutions. Been with us for a whole year over in the Ramsey Trusted area. And he's up here to do his debtree scream. Did I get all that right, Gabe? That's correct. Absolutely. Very cool. So, when you moved here, did you move here from somewhere else? I did. Yeah. From where? From Texas. All right. And you came here to take this job? I did. Yes, sir. Okay. And how much debt did you have? Uh, I had $26,469. Okay. And that's been one year you paid it off then? Uh 21 months. 21 months. Okay. So, since you've been here, it's been half of that roughly. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Very cool. And we don't ask incomes on team members cuz he's got 50 of his friends that work with him standing around here. Don't make it weird. Not fair and awkward. Okay. So, anyway, uh what kind of debt was the $26,000? Completely student loans. Okay. And your degree is in? Uh it's called integrated studies with a minor in business. So, okay. Very good. Perfect for being a copywriter at Ramsey Trusted. That's right. No question. Good. Okay. So, before you came here, had you just graduated? Is that what the 21 months is or? No, I moved home for a year. Graduated in 2024. Moved back to Texas for a year and then I moved here. Okay. All right. And so, this was your second job, I guess, after college then. Correct. Okay. Cool. And uh so how did because you started this get out of debt process a year before you came to work here. Correct. I did. And how did you find Ramsay at that point? So I graduated in 2024, moved back home to uh work a copywriting job for a Christian TV network back there. Um and right before graduating, uh one of my buddies sitting over there. Um he was like, "Dude, uh this I was just becoming familiar with Ramsay. I'd heard about FPU and a few other books. Um and he's like, "Dude, I I think that might be something that you should take." And I'm like, "Honestly, I think you're right." So signed up for it, started taking it. It fired me up. Started. Financial piece. Correct. Okay. Went to Financial Peace University. Correct. Had freshly graduated from college. Freshly minted. Right. Yeah. Literally like two weeks later bought it and started taking it. Wow. Okay. And so from then on, there's no looking back. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz once we suck you into that portal, you're going to do it. Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. And then once you got here, did it put things into high gear for you? What what changed once you landed at Ramsay? Lots of shaming. We shame them. We shame them at length until they pay off their We don't even hire you unless you're debtree and I should tell them that's a lie. Lots of guilt tripping. No, I'm I'm being sarcastic. There's a lot of encouragement really, isn't there? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My whole team was encouraging me. They they knew where I was at. My whole onboarding team walked me walked me through this and encouraged me to do the debtree scream and uh it was just so encouraging to have people alongside me that that one had their own stories. A lot of people here have paid off their own debt um and were just in it with me daily and and catching up with me and and taking me to the end. Very cool. So, other than the Ramsay team that you sit with every day, who was cheering you on? Um, I've got four friends over here. Um, yeah, went to college with two of them and they were with they were with me from the very beginning. Um, when I realized, guys, I've got $26 grand to pay off. Um, and I have a decision right now that could really impact my future and not only my future, but my family's future if I go ahead and deal with this now. Um, and they were they just sat set me sat me down and set me straight and said, "Guys," or "Gabe, this is this is the time to deal with this." Um, and I said, "You know what? You're right." So, decided to do it. Boom. Game on. I love it. So, mom and dad cheering you on, too, I'm sure. 100%. Yeah. They let me live at home for a year and um I mean, that freed up so much money for me to send to the debt. Um, so massive shout out to them. It was such a generous offer. Very cool. Very cool. Good to for you, man. And then you have been here a year and finished off the thing 21 months total for $26,000. Okay. Now you write copy for Ramsey Trusted. Which area in Ramsey Trusted? Which? Protections. Protections. Okay. So for insurance? Correct? For those of you that don't know, out there. And uh so you're kind of immersed in this stuff every day. But now when you're personally doing this and your buddy from college calls up and says, "Hey, what's the secret? What did you do to get out of debt? What do you tell them? That's a great question. Um, I think the idea of ownership, just realizing that this is mine to deal with. Um, I could look away and I could just act like it's not there for 30 years and and look back and it's grown to be much larger than it was in the first place. Um, or I can decide that I have a decision um, an opportunity to transform my family tree, my family's financial legacy. Um, both are hard. Both are hard in different ways. Um, but I think hard things are worth doing and this was a hard thing worth doing. I decided that um this decision is going to change my life forever and um just deciding that uh taking ownership is is so worth it. Um, that would be a message that I would share with anybody teaching them to take ownership.

Okay, so for all you people out there that when I say there's awesome Gen Z's and a bunch of them work here, you just heard it. Okay, you just heard it. That was a complete mic drop. That's a good hire right there. That's a complete I see myself in your story, Gabe, cuz when I started here, I was 23, $36 grand in student loan debt. And we did good to get a continuous sentence out of you. That's true. I was I was a on the struggle. He he just preached a sermon. Gab's a stud from day one. It took me a while to to blossom, but I just I love that story cuz I go, okay, he's on this trajectory to be a baby steps millionaire now, probably in your 30s if you continue down this path or sooner. And so it just encourages me that we're going to see a whole new generation of of Gabes who go, I'm not going to wait on the government or student loan forgiveness or make it someone else's problem. I'm going to look in the mirror and go, I can clean this up. I own this. I'm not a victim. Yeah. And in 21 months, it's done. Most people go 21 years in mediocrity hoping that someone else changes their life. And you decided it's my job. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Well done, sir. Thank you. Very proud of you. The gang is very proud of you. Got a few hundred people. No one's Is anybody working anymore, Dave? Does anybody work here anymore? They all come out and watch Debtree Screams. I love it. Gabe Fox, copywriter for protections and Ramsey Trust, had been with us for the last year. But 21 months ago, he started Financial Peace University, started the process, and he's now paid off $26,000. Debt-free Gen Z, ready to rock and roll. Count it down. Let's hear a great debtree scream. 3 2 1 I'm de free. YEAHOOP. The crowd goes wild. Yeah, that's pretty cool, man. I loved his answer. Ownership. Own it. I did it. I got to fix it. I own it. Personal responsibility. you you call it whatever you want to call it, but I mean that at any age once you look in the mirror and you go, you're the freaking problem and you're the solution. Your life has changed. But until you look in the mirror and you say that to you, you're going to struggle the rest of your life. And getting people to do this at any age group, that's an emotional maturity, a spiritual maturity that that is necessary to be uh to be other I mean to to just have a worldclass impact on things. Yeah. I mean, if he can do this with money, now he's going, I can take ownership in every other area of my life. And so, it really gives you agency maybe for the first time to go, I can affect change in every other area. That's encouraging. I'm I'm not going to wait 30 years to pay off my student loans. I'm not going to wait on the government or Biden to forgive my student loan debt. I'm not going to just just knock it out. Just draw back and smack it in the head, man. Just go, you going down. I own you. You don't own me. And when you get that going, you get that thing going. You understand? The borrower is slave to the lender. And I don't need any more masters. I am so done with masters. I'm so done with people telling me freaking what to do. What's in your wallet? Jump off a cliff. I don't want to care what's in my wallet. What's in your wallet? Millions of dollars for doing them stupid ads. That's what's in your wallet. So. No. We don't want We don't want to listen to some broke actor. This is not No, no, no, no. I'm not living like this anymore. Not Ford Motor Company. Keep it. We don't need a payment, you know. No, no. It changes everything when you take that ownership. I love this guy. Yeah. When you have that level of focus, just for a short time in an ADD culture, you'll be shocked at how far it'll take you. Just being focused on one thing at one time. You will get so much done and be so successful. Yeah. But it starts with this idea of just spiritual ownership. And Gabe Gabe nailed it. So proud of you, Gabe. I love it, man. Glad you're on the team, man. We are. We're definitely proud of you. Glad you're here. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, this is how it works, ladies and gentlemen.

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Our scripture today, 2 Corinthians 4:8 and9. We are hardpressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not abandoned, struck down, but not destroyed. Artha Franklin said, "It's the rough side of the mountain that's the easiest to climb. The smooth side doesn't have anything for you to hang on to." Which makes a good point. Not bad. Not bad. Hey, the right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and if your wallet and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. ramseysolutions.com/checkup is where you go to get the free coverage checkup and be sure you do that. Ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Andrew is in San Francisco. Hi Andrew. How are you? Hi. Good. How's it going Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. Good. Just uh kind of calling about a issue I got myself into. A little bit of a backstory. Um about 2 three years ago I put myself in a bit of a hole. Um, I had a very good financial year for myself and then I lost someone who meant very much to me, a good friend. I decided then to take the money that I had after becoming debtree and buying a car. You know, they went the spoil myself route to feel better. Uh, I now have a remainder of a balance of $34,000 on a car loan at a horrible interest with a $795 car payment per month, not including insurance and the rest. I also have about $5,900 in credit card debt included with about $7,000 in personal loans debt. And I have a baby coming up that is due in August.

Cool. How long you been married? I am not married. Okay. What does your uh fiance make? Um she's actually a stay-at-home mom. Okay. All right. And how old are you? 23 years old. Okay. One more time, tell me what did what you make. I make $83,000 a year gross. Doing sums up to about I work in I work in sales. Okay. All right. Cool. All right. Fun. Okay. Um well, you're probably going to get a little more than you asked for on this call. Um but I'm going to try to love you well. If if you were uh my son is 10 years older than you, but if you were my kid, here's what I would tell you. Okay? The data tells us that people that are married and work together have higher net worths and higher income and live longer than people who are not. This is statistical data. Okay? So when we study millionaires, we find almost none of them shacked up. Almost all of them are married is what we find. That's the data. Okay? So it's a financial advantage, a relational advantage, um an advantage for your child, a legal advantage for your wife because she has some protections then. And so I'm my first recommendation to you would be to get married Saturday. That's my first recommendation. Okay. To help you move forward and build your family and let's go from here. Then you've got $5900 in credit card debt and $34,000 on a car and you make $83. Is that your only debts? Those are my only debts along with the credit card debt. Uh yeah, credit card debt, personal loans, which was $7,000 and the car loan. Okay. $47 total. Who Who are the personal loans to? Me. Okay. No, I mean, who are they? Who'd you borrow them from? Oh, um, it was an online company called Upstart. Oh, crap. So, this is like a payday lender type thing. Uh, not necessarily. It's crappy interest rate. Yeah. It's horrible interest rate. Yeah, that's the one I remember. Okay. What's the car worth? Car is worth an estimated of about $30,000. So, I've already looked into getting rid of it. I'm about $4,000 upside down.

Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So, I think I would scratch up the $4,000 first, pay minimum payments on the other stuff. Let's get rid of the car and get you a $2 or $3,000 car that you pay cash for. Getting rid of that car mistake does two things. One, um, obviously the mathematics are horrible. The interest rate and all of that, the payments crazy, all that stuff, it's dra it's dragging you down. But the other thing is that car is tied to pain. It's tied to psychological trauma for you. So every time you get in it, every time you write a check for it, you know, I got ripped off because my heart was broken and I made a bad decision. And it's a reminder of that. I'd want that reminder out of my life. Am I right? Yes. Yeah. And with that, an $800 a month raise. Yeah. Yeah. So, the first thing I'm going to do is pay minimums or just quit paying the $7,000. I don't care. Doesn't matter to me. But I I want you to get rid of the car by scratching up $4,000 working overtime. You got anything you can sell? Do you have any money saved? Um I don't have any money saved. I've been trying to work continuously to save up a little bit extra money on the side. Um How old is the baby? The baby isn't here yet, luckily. So, we're due in August. Oh, great. Okay. So, you can get married before that. That's even better. Okay. That's that's very helpful to the data. Okay. Good. Um, yeah. Uh, well, I mean, anything she can do to earn money until the baby comes, I know she's in her third trimester. I'm not trying to put her in the salt mines, but if anything she could do to earn money, it adds flavor to this, right? Cuz here's the deal. If the faster we get rid of this car, we got $800 bucks. And then the two of us sit down, we do a tight budget, we work what we and then all we got to do is just, you know, knock out like $10, $15,000 bucks and you can do that in a few months. Yes. Cuz most of this debt isn't tied up in this car. Think about what it would be like to get to Christmas and have zero debt, man. It would feel good. Yeah, that's what I want for you. And a new baby and a new wife. Life is good. I'm smiling right now. Now we're moving forward. I like this a lot. And you've learned your lesson at 23 to never go on one of these ripoff interest rate personal loan sites. Like you got screwed and you got screwed on the car, too. Yes, I did. It was a very bad decision that I've made. The good news is you got the whole rest of your life to never get screwed again because now you know what it looks like. You go, I'm not signing up for that. I don't care what you do. You can do whatever you want to do. I'm not signing up for that. You can have a gun. I'm not signing up for that ever. Again, I'm not going to let myself get screwed ever again. you you got a beautiful life ahead of you. Only 23. I went broke when I was 28 and filed bankruptcy. I've had a beautiful life since then because I learned a lot of stupid but stuff about myself during that time and I there's a lot of stuff I never do again. You know, you got a great thing going here. I'm so proud of you, young man. You're going to be great. This is going to be so good for you.

All right, I'm going to give you a wedding gift. Oo, so kind. I'm going to give you a copy of George's book. Oh, perfect. Happy to give that away. And a copy of the Total Money Makeover book since you and I are the ones that took the call. And the baby's going to have a mommy and a daddy and they make $85,000 a year and he's 23 years old and he's going to get rid of people screwing him. All these car companies, all these payday lender types on what was it? Upstart. Upstart Chris. Yeah, Upstart just had 30 million people say you suck. Upstart, I hope you heard that. We just told 30 million people you suck. You screwed a 23 year old kid and you deserve for everybody in America. I bet they're marketing is like we're the lifeline. We'll give you the financial marketing is like we suck but come do it anyway. We'll screw you but come see us anyway. That's their marketing line. Just it's like like SoFi, right? Yeah. We have a stadium. Who do you think paid for that? Yeah. You and your and you and you and you. They are people that we help. Yes. We're helpful. That's what we are. Oh man, I tell you what, the villains are the villains are run a muck in this cartoon. Well, it's funny. The the villains will happily show up in your life when you're so desperate and they'll act like they're the hero. That's the scary part. We're here to help. You'll get an Instagram ad going, "Oh, finally relief is here." No, that's not relief. That's 600% interest on your payday loan. Relief is when I get Upstart out of. Unless you're selling hemorrhoid cream. We don't want relief name. You people ought to be I bet your mother's ashamed of you if you work at Upstart. Oh my gosh. Wow. Hey, hang on. Uh Andrew, we're going to give you a couple wedding gifts and congratulations on your wedding this weekend. That's exciting. I love that Dave just planned the wedding for you. The man should be in the wedding planning business. Totally assumptive clothes. Yes. No question about it. I wonder how many people you've convinced to get married that otherwise wouldn't have. That's a beautiful thing. It's a wonderful thing. And you're not even ordained, I don't think. Not yet. You never know. You never know. A lot of things, but that's not one of them. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.