Transcription
The fact is you can't prove consent. You can't prove I just proved that it was unconsensual.
No, you you could. No, you can. You can pull ones and twos and you can say this girl said this and this girl said that. However, you you you don't know. You weren't there.
When they're all saying the same thing in cooperation of what he admitted to. You like to make a lot of assumptions based off of things that you're not. You don't assume. What did I assume?
You assume all of the things. I'm sure you want to talk about him, uh, you know, in the 80s being a sketchy dude and and, uh, how he's got 34 felonies, all these things. I'm sure. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Yeah. Here's what I want to talk about, Johnny. So, uh, this is the most effective argument I have to change the minds of Trump supporters. Now, you happen to be a pretty pompous, cocky brat. Uh, and and I want to see what you do with this argument. So Johnny, can we agree that exploitation is to unjustly take advantage of somebody?
Um, I don't know if that's the truth for in a criminal sense, but, uh, yeah, sure.
Well, we're not talking about in a criminal sense. I think that the criminal definition is exploitation is really weird. Okay. We're just talking colloquially. Okay. Like we could agree here that exploitation is to exploit somebody, right?
Uh, yeah, sure.
Okay. And exploiting somebody would mean to unjustly take advantage of somebody, right?
Um, it could. Yeah, it depends on, you know, depending on the circumstance, but yeah, sure.
Okay. So, would an example of unjustly taking advantage of somebody's be to abuse your position of, uh, power over their position of vulnerability to further unconsensual conduct?
Sure.
Okay. If Donald Trump had exploited anyone, would you still support him as president?
Um, as far as exploitation, yeah, I'd probably still support him. Yeah.
Why do you think that the president should be a predator?
Nobody said anything about being a predator. You said sexually exploiting a a woman or,
if you sexually exploit women and girls, you're a sexual predator.
No, I don't think that makes you a predator. I think that makes you a human being, male. You you've never seen a good-looking girl? DeMan, look at look at her, she's, you know, she looks great. You know, you've never you've never done that. I know, I know you're you're young and you probably don't have much interaction with the opposite sex. You sit behind your computer and you probably spend most of your time inside. But you know, I'm 35 and when I was growing up, you know, there there's there's this thing called, you know, locker room talk or whatever. It can be disgusting, right? It can be, uh, pretty chauvinistic and nasty. But it it was a thing that happened, you know.
To clarify with where we're at, we first agree on what sexual exploitation is: unjustly taking advantage of somebody sexually. We then further clarify what it means to unjustly take advantage of somebody sexually. We clarify that that could mean for a man to abuse his position of power to further unconsensual sexual conduct with a minor girl. And then in response, you tell me that, well, if Trump did this, you'd still support him as president and it would want to make Trump a predator. It would just make him a man. And then you kind of went on to sympathize with those actions. So, so you, you sympathize with,
unconsensually sexually exploiting naked little girls.
The the gymnast, the mental gymnastics you have to perform to get to that point. No, what I said was,
Well, that's what we're talking about, John.
No, I'm not. We're not talking about that because that never happened. Trump was never charged criminally. He was never charged. What you're referencing is talking about Trump USA. Haven't even started talking about Trump yet, but I know where you're going to. So, so what, what did you mean moments ago when you said that sexually exploiting little girls doesn't make you a predator, it just makes you any man?
That's not what I said. You're very good at. No, I want you to clarify. Clarify flipping the script.
What did you say?
I said that exploitation, it can be a, it can be, you know, there's there's a million ways to sexually exploit somebody. It happens all the time on TV. It happens in media. It happens. What? What did you mean when you said? What did you mean when you said that sexually exploiting a woman or girl doesn't make you a a man, or sorry, it doesn't make you a predator. It just makes you any man. What? What did you mean when you said that? Keep in mind, Johnny, I also just want to clarify that right before you said that sexually exploiting a woman or a girl doesn't make you a predator, just makes you a man. Um, we we defined what sexual exploitation even was.
We we brought up how it would mean to unjustly take advantage of somebody sexually. We went over how that can be a man abusing his position of power over the position of vulnerability of a woman or girl to further unconsensual sexual conduct. So, why do you think that engaging in unconsensual sexual conduct with a woman or girl is not something that makes you a predator, it just makes you any man?
When are you going to like listen, dude? Listen very closely. You ready? Listen very, very closely. Sexual exploitation happens in many forms, right? The owner of the Dallas Cowboys, do you think he's he's sexually exploiting the cheerleaders because they run around virtually naked? That's sexual exploitation, Dean. It's the same thing. It's not It's not the same thing as being a predator where you hunt, you know, hunt your victim and and do sexually explicit things to them. That's not the same thing. They're two totally different things, but they're both exploiting sexuality, both of them, in both cases.
If a 50-year-old man is finding is trying to find a 12-year-old girl online,
The fundamental, the fundamental difference between the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and, you know, um, somebody who's been sexually exploited would be consent. And the fundamental basis of what makes sexual exploitation sexual exploitation would be unconsensual sexual conduct.
Right. Okay. So, now that we understand that the foundation of sexual exploitation is unconsensual sexual conduct, are you still going to argue that if you engage in sexual exploitation, you engage in unconsensual sexual conduct, you're not a predator. You're just any man?
If it's unconsensual, then you're you're you're a predator. You're you're a problem.
Okay.
At that point.
Okay. Perfect. So, let me ask, so sexual exploitation. So, sexual exploitation doesn't just make you any man. Perfect. So now that we understand that sexual exploitation at its core would be some version of unconsensual sexual conduct, I want to ask you that question again. Would you still support Donald J. Trump as president if you knew he was a sexual predator because he had engaged in sexual exploitation?
Um, like I said, if it was to the degree of sexual exploitation that I define as making a person a predator, then no, I would not.
Of unconsensual sexual conduct.
Say that again. If it was to the degree of intentional unconsensual sexual conduct,
then no, I would not support him. No.
So, Donald Trump has admitted to engaging in intentional unconsensual sexual conduct.
He's admitted into he's admitted a lot of [ __ ]. You know what we're referring to here.
Would be when he sat down with Howard Stern on his radio show in 2005 and he told Howard Stern that he would barge into the dressing rooms of the naked women and girls at Miss Teen USA and Miss USA, look at their naked bodies, talk about how great they looked and leave, and he would get away with it. This is unconsensual sexual conduct because he's abusing his position of power as the owner of these pageants to barge into their dressing rooms to then take advantage of their position of vulnerability to look at them while they're naked. And explain to me where the unconsensual sexual contact was by him making those statements.
Conduct, sorry.
Yeah, the unconsensual sexual conduct would, as I just said, be barging into the private woman's only, uh, dressing room.
How do you know? How do you know it wasn't consensual bodies? How how do you know they didn't want him in there?
First and foremost, minors can't consent. Second of all, uh, he said that he allowed himself to go into this space. So even if it was women, it would still be unconsensual because,
how do you know they didn't want him in?
How do you know? Because as I just pointed out, he said he allowed himself in. He didn't say that the women allowed him in. Second of all, the women have said that he just barged in uninvited, like Tasha Dixon, Miss Arizona from 2001. And then third of all, at the end of the clip, he says he got away with it. If he had the consent of the women, he wouldn't have got away with anything because he would have been perfectly fine.
Okay. So, so where you still haven't proved to me that he's a predator, as you called it?
Yes, because I've proved to you that he's engaging on dressing.
You you proved to me that he walked into a room of girls undressing and then,
what what what he said he kind of walked into.
What kind of room?
He he said that he walked into.
What kind of room? A private women's only dressing room.
You know it was a private women's only. You can prove that.
Yes.
Can you? Yes. Please pull up the proof. Private women's only dressing room.
Perfect. Yeah, I could absolutely do that because in the clip where Donald Trump admits to it, he says that there was no men around.
What does that have to do with being private?
Because because that demonstrates that it was only for women.
Well, I think at the time Trump probably identified as as trans, so he just was going in there, you know, cuz that's the people he wanted to be with.
So, just to clarify, you have now completely novelized, uh, the sexual exploitation of women and girls. You completely brushed it under the rug and now you're trying to find a way to make this conversation about trans people because that's what you and every other MAGA-looper does when you lose the debate. Find some way to demonize trans people.
He was trans. So, so now let's stick on topic with Trump. Okay.
Let's stick on topic with Trump. Thank you. Let's go ahead and clip.
Okay. I'm obviously not going to entertain, uh, such an unserious claim that you are making in an attempt to demonize trans people to deflect away from Donald Trump's sexual exploitation.
Your obligation to do that?
So, so you have done that. Now, tell me.
Well, I'll tell you the funniest is that I'll go backstage before a show. Yes. And everyone's getting dressed and ready and everything else. And you know, no men are anywhere. And I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant and therefore I'm inspecting it. You know, I'm inspecting and I want to make sure that everything is good. You're there. You have to dress. Is everyone okay? You know, they're standing there with no clue. Is everybody okay? And you see these incredible looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that.
First off, two things. One, that was private.
Because because your argument is completely insane. Show me that it was private and show me that these were underage girls.
So, first and foremost, my claim would be that it happened to women and girls. But that claim is completely,
Just from that clip. Just from that clip, show me that.
You're interrupting me.
I know I am because you're interrupting me. Dressing room speaking. I'm going to go ahead and respond to your two questions. So, your first question was you wanted me to demonstrate that he was a private space where where women could get, uh, naked and get dressed. And then the second claim was, "Show me where that happened to minors." Okay. Well, my my evidence that this happened to minors would be that in that clip, Donald Trump seems to be speaking generally about all of his pageants. He owned one for minors. And we heard from the minors like Mor Delgado and three other minors that said this happened to them when they were underage. But that's actually completely irrelevant. Okay. Because the the age of the people he sexually exploited is is not relevant to your argument because you said that if he sexually exploited anyone of any age, that you'd stop supporting them as president. Now to respond to your first question, you said, "Well, show me and prove to me that this space was private and for women only." I could do that 110%. We know that this is a private woman's only space because A, he said that there's no men anywhere. If it was a space inclusive of men, why wouldn't they be anywhere? And why would he point out that they weren't anywhere? Point number two, we know that this is a private woman's only space because he doesn't say that he could just walk in. He says that he has to abuse his position of power to barge in under the guise of a quote unquote inspection. If it was totally fine for men to walk in and out of there, he wouldn't have to go in under the guise of an inspection. Point number three, clearly this was a space private for women only because it was a space where they were getting naked. Okay. Hello. Okay. Now, in consideration of those three things, plus at the end where he says this is something he gets away with, we know that it was a private space designed for women where they get dressed.
It blows my mind how how much you can advocate advocate for private women's spaces, yet you'll allow a man to walk into one. You'll allow a man to walk into one. That's just crazy to me.
Okay. The only person arguing that men should be able to go into private women's only spaces is you. Weird, weird, weird projection. Like that's like literally like never made that argument, but you are.
You you exactly. Do you think do you think that a trans female should be allowed in the female restroom?
We could talk about trans people as soon as we're.
Well, that's a simple question. Yes or no?
Simple question. Yes or no?
A simple question that we won't answer until you're until you're done either refuting or conceding to the fact that Donald Trump sexually exploited women and girls. And your question at the end there, why not? It's because I believe in linear dialogue. Okay? Linear dialogue would necessitate that we go point by point. You asked me to specifically prove that this was a private space for women and women only. I did. Then your response to me proving that was to ignore the proof and ask me about something else. So we could talk about that something else. We could talk about trans women using the women's restroom and what my thoughts are on it. As soon as you could respond to the damning, irrefutable proof I gave that this was a private space for women only.
He said there was no men there. Right.
So once again, there was three, four prongs of evidence I gave. The first prong of evidence I gave is the fact that not only did he say, uh, not only was there no men anywhere, but he said there was no men.
Do you think there's a lot of men at a women's?
If this was if this was one moment, if this was a space that was open to men and women, why would there be no men anywhere? And why would he make a point, make a point out of saying that? Now, my second prong of evidence is, well, if this was a space that was inviting and inclusive of anybody, including men, then he wouldn't have had to abuse his special privilege of being the owner under the guise of doing an inspection to go in. He wouldn't have had to create that justification to go into the space. He would have just been able to walk into the space regardless if he was the owner and regardless if he was doing an inspection. My third prong of evidence that this was a space just for women is the fact that women were getting undressed. Women were getting naked and women were changing. Women get undressed naked and change for events in private spaces. Okay. Now, my fourth prong of evidence is at the end of the clip he says he got away with doing this thing. Okay. But if it was a space that was open to men and women, he wouldn't be getting away with anything. Like, I'm not getting away with anything by being at the hotel I am because this hotel is open to everybody. But now imagine if this hotel was just open to women and men weren't allowed at this hotel. Well, then sure, I kind of would be getting away with being at this hotel right now. You know what I mean? So because of those four pieces of evidence, I find it, uh, to be irrefutable that this was a private woman's only dressing room.
Okay. Well, because you find it doesn't mean that it's true. However, think about it on a spectrum, right? Where was where was Trump at during this time? He was on Howard Stern show, right?
Do you think, uh, Well, let me just ask you. Do you think Trump lies? Do you think Trump tells lies to the public?
Okay. Yes. I think.
Just yes or no. Just yes or no. Okay. So, you think Trump lies a lot, right?
Yes. Would you say that it's there's reason to believe that when he's bantering with a sexual deviant like Howard Stern that it's reasonable to think that maybe he's going to embellish some [ __ ] or lie a little bit or tell, you know, tell a fib or whatever.
And look, I can agree with you. This is incredible. He so you accept that if we take his word for face value, he did admit to barging into a private space designed for women to then unconsensually, uh, further sexual conduct by looking at their naked bodies, right?
Uh, yeah, I think we could agree that that's what he was saying. Yeah.
Okay.
But I I've gotten you to concede on a couple things. That doesn't make him. I've gotten you to concede on a couple things. Okay. The first thing that I got you to concede on was the fact that it's a private space for women only less than three minutes ago. That's something that you rejected and you were asking me to prove. Okay. Now, where we're at is, well, if we take him for face value in that clip that we listened to, he was barging into a private space for women only, and he was unconsensually looking at their naked bodies. Now, you're saying that doesn't make him a predator. Okay. Now, you're walking back what we originally agreed to. We,
What if it was an accident?
Absolutely agreed. One moment. Well, if it was an accident, then he wouldn't have been saying that he did it intentionally.
Why not? You just agreed he lies. You just agreed he lies.
We'll get on to the lie part in a moment because we're still at the if we take it for for face value part. If we take his word for face value, it does make him a predator. The reason why is because his word is admitting to unconsensual sexual conduct. And before we started talking about what Donald Trump did and what he admitted to in 2005, both you and me agreed that if a man engages in unconsensual sexual conduct, that that man is a predator.
We we did not come to that agreement. I don't know how you could how you could mistakenly walk into a women's dressing room and you're automatically a predator.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, dude. Holy [ __ ]. Wait, what? So, I just went to. Wait, you said mistakenly. Okay, let's set up a scenario where you mistakenly walk in. That if you intentionally engage in unconsensual sexual conduct, that that makes you a predator.
Sexual conduct in the form of.
Unconsensual sexual conduct. Conduct in the form of contact, then yes.
What about looking at somebody's naked body?
No.
Okay. So, if a 45-year-old man were to follow your 10-year-old girl into the bathroom, then open her stall to look at your 10-year-old, uh, your 10-year-old girl's private parts. Okay. That that man wouldn't be a predator under your view.
There's a huge difference in intent here, right? If you.
We're talking about intent. Yes. We're saying if you engage in intentional unconsensual sexual conduct, that would include contact or would include looking at somebody while they're naked, it makes you a predator, right?
Um, yes. If you if you intentionally go in there with the idea of I am specifically going in here to look at somebody naked, then yes, that makes you a predator.
Okay. Yes. You intend to do it. You intend to do it. Perfect. Okay. So, if we could prove that Donald Trump didn't waltz into that dressing room by accident, okay, then he's a predator.
Uh, no. You can't. Because you can't prove that there was no consent.
I'm saying if we prove that he walked in there with intention, then then he's a predator, right?
No.
Why?
Because those those girls could have said, "Yeah, we we don't mind if the president comes in and inspects the room. We don't mind if he comes in and checks and looks around. We don't mind. You cannot prove that there was that it was unconsensual."
Okay. Well, actually, we can because we have a lot of evidence that it was unconsensual. Uh, then why hasn't he even charged?
Then here's the evidence. You're you're sorry. You're you're you're throwing like a billion things at me at once to overwhelm me. It's not going to work. Here's the evidence that it was unconsensual. The first data point of evidence that it was unconsensual is the fact that he said he allowed himself in there. He never said the women allowed him in there. The second data point that this is unconsensual is that the women he did it to have spoken out and said it was unconsensual. Like Tasha Dixon from Arizona, one moment when she was asked about it. Like Tasha Dixon when she was asked about it when he started running for president. Duh. Like,
when he started running for president. It's amazing how all these accusations came out as soon as he enters the political.
Wait, this isn't when the accusation came out. This is when she was asked about it. Now, are you going to stop cutting me off? I'm still in the middle of my sentence and this is your third time cutting me off because you know that you're losing the debate. So, I'm going to go ahead and respond to this, too. You know that I'm right, and that's exactly why you're now telling me to kick you. But now, to continue the point that I was making, you said that there was no evidence that there's unconsensual. There's so much. Okay, he has something to say. Go ahead. I'll finish my breath once you're done because you clearly have something so important to say that you need to cut me off in the middle of my sentence. Go ahead. I'm crashing out by being courteous and giving you the mic. How is that me crashing out? I think I'm being very kind to you.
You're interrupting me. Just calm down.
I interrupted you.
Use a little bit of rationale, right? Use some rationale. Think about where Trump was. Was it creepy what he did? If he did in fact do these things, then yes, it was creepy. Was it unconsensual? We don't know. Because it wasn't until the fact that he started running for president that an accusation has been unearthed, right?
It's amazing how that works. This man lived for 40 years in the public eye and nobody said one thing about him being a predator until he runs for office.
Make that make sense.
Okay. Yeah. Let's clarify on the when the women came out about it. It's not that they only came out when he was president. It's that they were only asked about it, uh, by mainstream journalists when he started running for president. These experiences, uh, are are those in which these women and girls lived with for many, many years. And as far as I'm concerned, they very well could have told everybody within their personal life. Yet, that never made its way to you or I because they weren't telling, you know, like the ABCs and the CNNs of the world. But then when Donald Trump started to run for president in 2015, that's when he gained that mainstream notoriety and the ABCs and the CNNs of the world then started to investigate his history. They probably found that clip of him on Howard Stern's radio show in 2005. Let's said, let's, they said, let's investigate this. Let's find the women and girls. And then they started individually reaching out to the women and girls. So clearly, okay, 2015 is going to be the first time the story breaks nationwide because that's the first time since it happened to them that they were asked about it by somebody who could break that story nationwide. And obviously, when we hear the same thing from every woman and every girl at different pageants in different years and all of these things, not only stand on their own, but also stand in cooperation of what Donald Trump admitted to in 2005, we should absolutely believe it. Once again, the point that you're choosing to drill in now is that we don't know if they consented to it or not. So, first and foremost, let me tell you how logic works. We can only believe something. We could only find X to be true if we have evidence that X is true. And as it stands, we have evidence that he barged into those dressing rooms and looked at their naked bodies. And we have no evidence that it was with consent. So we believe it to be true that he looked at them while they were naked, but we don't believe it to be true that it was with consent. Therefore, by default, it was unconsensual unless evidence suggests otherwise. And the evidence does not suggest otherwise. It only reaffirms that it happened without consent. The first part of evidence would be what he said in the clip. He did not say that he got permission from the women to go into that private space for them. He said he gave himself permission as the owner to go into their private space. The second piece of evidence here is that if he did get permission from the women, well then why once he walked in were they undressed? It would be understood that if they if he got permission to go into that space, that they would first get dressed before he went into that space. And then the third and most compelling piece of evidence here is that we have the individual testimony from like 20 different people that were competing at these pageants all saying the same thing. Tasha Dixon, Miss Arizona 2001. She said he barged on her while she was naked. Miss Massachusetts from 2002. Miss Vermont from 1997. They both said that he barged in on them while she was while they were naked. Mariah Belato from Miss, uh, Teen USA in 1997, she said that he barged on her while she was naked and said, "Don't worry ladies, I've seen it all before." Same thing with four other, uh, compat, uh, beauty pageant contestants from that same year. So, when we listen to both parties, Donald Trump when he states what he's admitting to, then asked them for their consent, I barged in there because I'm the owner. When we listen to the beauty pageant contestants, everyone's saying that it happened without consent. Then therefore, yes, we do know that it was indeed without consent.
You done talking? Holy [ __ ].
Yeah.
You talk for so much, man.
Yeah, I'll try to do it with crayon on paper next time.
Yeah, that'd work out a lot better. Um, yeah, the fact is you can't prove consent. You can't prove.
I just I just proved that it was unconsensual.
No, you you can. No, you can. No, you can pull ones and twos and you can say this girl said this and this girl said that. However, you you you don't know. You weren't there.
When they're all saying the same thing in cooperation of what he admitted to.
You like to make a lot of assumptions based off of things that you're not that you don't assume. What did I assume?
You assume all of the things.
What did I assume? I waited for like 45 minutes and I just said you both.
Sorry. I'm just, just the trust me, bro argument is not going to work. You said I gave I specifically cited his admission of guilt on the Howard Stern radio show where he said that he allowed himself in. He was not allowed in by them. And then what cooperates that admission of guilt that he did so unconsensually is the testimony of every woman and girl that could recount experiences of it happening to them. There was not one woman or one girl from any pageant that said, "This happened to me and I consented to it." Every woman and every girl that said this happened to them said that they did not consent to it.
So, he's creepy. We We agree. He's creepy, right?
You elected. You elected a guy that sniffed people and Trump walked into some dressing room.
Well, no, you'd be a predator because he engaged in unconsensual sexual conduct.
I think your definition of predator is misleading.
We literally agree that I think you do that because you have.
Because you engage in unconsensual sexual conduct, then you're a sexual predator. That is leads to contact. Be very clear.
So if it's just conduct like looking at somebody naked?
If I if I if I mistakenly walk into a woman's bathroom and I see.
Mistakenly, mistakenly. We brought up intention.
How how did do you think Trump knew for a fact that they were that they were undressing in there, that they were all naked?
Yes. I think that people know for a fact that women are undressing and naked in private women's dressing rooms. Yes.
You don't you don't know that at all times.
God Jesus Christ. So, the janitor that goes in that cleans it after is is just automatically supposed to, uh, assume that there's 50 naked women in there.
Actually, yes, janitorial staff do assume, uh, that there would be naked people in a dressing room. That's why it's the job of the janitorial staff to be the same gender as the people in the space. On top of that, knock on the door and say, "Inside, is anyone in here?" which is exactly the case. But I just want to clarify. Do you accept that if you intentionally engage in unconsensual sexual conduct, that you are a predator? He left. Naga, the best that you have are puny, petulant crashouts like that last guess who will argue, "I don't care if a 50-year-old man perves on the genitalia of your naked 14-year-old daughter. He's not a predator." This is MAGA.