#ABtalks Together with Karen & Elias | مع كارن وإلياس

He left the the crying one for last.

"You want the last tough one?"

"Sure."

"When was the moment you knew you were falling for me?"

"We had a long-distance relationship. When you go see the person, it's kind of like a mini honeymoon every time."

"If I met you today, I would love you the exact same way when I met you then."

"Pass them for you. Do you think seeing a parent divorced pushes you to put that extra effort not to?"

"Divorce is an option if I'm not happy."

"That's not the reason why I'm staying with you."

"No, but when I say the names George, Carly, and Kay, how does your heart feel?"

"I really don't think I can live without him, honestly. So we uh finally lured and lied and deceived Luch to come."

"So we finally got both of them. Uh I think um for me it was a pleasure because there's so much I don't need to sell. You need to watch and then you see if you agree with me or not. But there's it's a rich content. I think it's the first time you see maybe hopefully Karen Luch in depth at 90 or more minutes and you see the interaction and the bond and then you can judge how genuine and beautiful or if you want to criticize criticize. But I'm so happy uh Lucha you're you're big active on social media."

"I'm not that active."

"Okay, still find him and follow him and push and support and encourage Karen if you follow her. I hope you love her more and if you don't uh from our audience. Please find her, follow her, and again, support us, push us, subscribe, and we try to give you the best guests. I hope both of you enjoyed this."

"Unbelievable."

"Honestly, unbelievable."

"I think like Luch said, it almost felt like it was like a renewal of vows, and I think it's always important to have a space to, you know, sometimes you forget to communicate. You take things, you know, um, you don't have the time. And I think this was very important. And you gave us the time and the platform to reflect on a lot of, you know, things in our relationship and our marriage and and I think we need to thank you."

"Yeah. It goes both ways. The best deals and the best friendships and the best relationships in life when it's really a win-win and I feel I personally benefited. I think a lot of the audience will benefit and I'm happy to hear that you also enjoy this. It's a win-win."

"Thank you for having me. Thanks."

"She he has to like we have took it took bribing."

"Took a lot."

"Bribing. Yeah. So I'm glad because Karen um you know she shares so much of her personality and her life online and I think sometimes there is the intimate parts and the personal parts but I've had my relationship of showing what Karen is as a friend and and somebody I know and I respect. But you I I only meet you off camera. So I'm so happy that I have both of you now."

"You know when you Google Karen Wazin there's there's Karen Wazin husband as like top because there's not much they know about him you know. So I think after wife first."

"Wife, yeah. I think."

"Is that good or bad for you? I don't want it."

"They're looking. They're looking."

"I think they want to know so much about love and what works and what doesn't. So."

"That's why we do well I guess in that."

"Okay. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give questions."

"Um the first question is for both. I'm asking it. So how long have you both been together?"

"I don't know."

"15 years."

"15 years married. 15 years."

"15 years together. Okay."

"And 13 years married, right? Or 14."

"Okay. 13."

"No. No. 13."

"Yeah."

"Okay. Hello. And how did you meet?"

"This is my only question, by the way."

"It's actually a cute story. I'm going to try and make it short. You can jump in."

"Uh, I'm going to give you the shorter version, but I was I had just graduated from university in Lebanon, and I want I I knew I wanted to leave Lebanon. I felt like I needed a new adventure in my life. and um I wanted to go to London and I had a double major at at university. I had a business major and a psychology major."

"And I wanted to travel to London to do my masters in psychology."

"My mom had just come back from Dubai because she my brother was living here and she told me she's like you're going to love Dubai. You should go to Dubai. And I'm like in my head all I wanted was just to go to London. I was so adamant on on doing my masters in London. But I'm like maybe I'm not going to get accepted you know to that university. So, let me like apply and have a for a job in Dubai and have like a backup plan. So, my friend Tracy was living here and I sent her a message. I'm like, 'Listen, just in case uh I don't get accepted to that university in London, can you help me find a job in Dubai?' And she was like, 'Yeah, sure. I'm going to put you in touch with my friend, he can maybe help you find a job.' "

"And I she sends me the email, which is she connects us actually by email, which is leasi at the time. He was working at HSBC. So leakazi at hsbc.com and she puts us together an email and le sound is like like an old."

"It's it's like an old person's name."

"You know like tui or like when you hear tufi you don't think oh tufi he's such a you know you think of an old man you know is like that."

"I'm like is one of older friends I don't know and he's just going to help me out with finding a job so I send him."

"I've never met in person."

"No, I had no idea was. So I answer I I respond to the email in a very formal way. I'm like, 'Dear Mr. Bahazi, Le Bahazi, you know, it sounds like an old person's name.' So I write, 'Dear Mr. Bahazi, thank you for your consideration and time and little like super formal, you know, just got out of university using all my, you know, what I learned.' And then he responds to me like, 'Dear Miss Wazen, thank you for your kind words and whatever.' And then he writes like, 'Haha, Karen, no need to be so formal. I'm just Tracy's friend.' So I I call Trace. I'm like, 'Trice, who's Elias Bazi?' She's like, 'He's Luch.' I'm like, 'Who's Luch?' She's like, 'My friend.' I'm like, 'Trice, I'm embarrassed.' I sent him like this super formal email."

"Anyway, he ends up sending me his CV, tells me, 'Listen, your CV is way too long.'"

"You know, like she has like a four-page CV and she just graduated. And you're like, 'Listen, your internship in this bank, which we know you never went to.'"

"No need to put it. Just copy my CV."

"Yeah. So, he gives me his CV. He's like, 'Use this as a template.' And I'm like,"

"Okay."

"But I never and then the last I heard of it."

"Yeah. Meanwhile, I get accepted to the university in London. So, okay."

"I don't even respond."

"I'm professional. There's no use."

"But I don't I'm like, you know, like."

"All good. I don't need to go to Dubai. I don't need to get a job. I'm going to London. And that was it. That was in like November."

"And then come December, I was going I was going to London in January. December 28th, it was right before New Year's. And it was for me like my going away."

"So December comes, I go down cuz it's vacation. And I call and and say I bet that Tracy was going out with one of my close friends."

"Yeah."

"So I call one of my friends, uh, Shu, what's the plan? I don't know what you know when you live abroad, you come in. You call your friend. Who's there? What's what's going on?"

"Oh, let's go here to this place called the gems."

"Okay, who's coming? One, two, three, four, five. Uh, and this girl called Karen. Uh, Wen, do you know her? I'm like, I don't know her, but she sent me a really weird email. I'm like, okay, let's go. Never seen her in my life."

"Instagram. So, there's no way to check anything."

"We go and I came a bit later. I had a cap on. I say hi to everyone. She was sitting behind me. I tap on her shoulder. She looks around. I'm like, 'Hi, I'm I'm Mr. Bahazi. Nice to meet you.'"

"So, I'm like."

"'What? Mr. Bahazi is cool and young and he's very much like was very much my style physically. I'm like this is Mr. Bhazi. In my head you looked very different and I'm like oh hi I'm Karen and whatever. We just sat next to each other. We really like.'"

"We hit it off."

"Yeah, we hit it off and and but in my head I'm like this is just you know I'm having fun with someone tonight like with a nice conversation but that's it. I'm going to London in two days."

"I end up going to London. We don't exchange numbers or anything. He adds me on Facebook and."

"Then."

"On Facebook."

"And that's we're old. He adds me on Facebook. We have like an exchange of messages but that's it. Then two months go nothing. We don't speak or anything. I'm in London and he's in Dubai and then I go back to Lebanon uh on my like spring break. He happened to have."

"It was actually a bit lucky cuz it was like mid-March and you know in London they have one month off for like uh Easter break. So I was like, you know, I had one of my friends wedding. So say I was there the same time she was there."

"And we were in the same uh restaurant and then I saw her."

"Say a bit we saw I'm like oh my god that guy I saw I'm like."

"And that was the first night I came also."

"Yeah."

"So I was there for a week and then I saw her."

"Say a bit like we were just rant with different people. Y and I'm like oh my god this guy like I liked him I remember. And then."

"You started speaking speaking speaking. That day I took her number. I'm like, you know what? Let's let's let's go for it. You know."

"And the next day I called her. You know, usually at that time you send a text like, 'Hey, nice.' You know, I called her. What are you up to? What are you doing tonight?"

"Oh, I have nothing. She was a bit shy. She's like, 'Oh my god, he called. I can hear. I can I can tell in her head.' She's like, 'Oh my god, he actually called.' You know, usually you should send a text."

"I was like, 'Listen, I don't have time. I have a week.'"

"And then we just spent every day together and then long distance. And then."

"Here we are. We have three kids."

"But you know, like."

"I love how this was sorry the short version. It's like half the interview."

"Well, it's crazy how for me like if he even just chose a different restaurant."

"Yeah."

"Or he chose the same restaurant but different booking."

"Yeah."

"Time."

"Yeah."

"100%."

"He wouldn't be sitting here literally like we we talk about that like you know."

"If and the funny part was that her mom."

"She didn't want to go out that night."

"Yeah. She didn't want to go out because she just like came back from London. She was tired and she had a flight and I don't know what. Then her mom was like, 'Go out. You haven't seen your friends. Just go. Enjoy. You're still young.' And yala go out, get dressed. Go. And she gave her that little pep talk and then she went out. And if she decided not to go out."

"This is what I love about life and this is why I reduce or try to stop using the word luck and I don't say coincidence. M."

"Maybe luck is fine but coincidence I find life too I mean there's some miracles to it and some design to it that I'm like it's lazy to say just coincidence because just her mom you that you met first time the email."

"I should I should say I should say thank you to my friend for having a wedding that week."

"You know come in so many days and it's off peak I wouldn't be going if it wasn't like a family friend's wedding I wouldn't have been going."

"If it was somebody's his wedding can you skip."

"Yeah. No, sorry. I have work. You know who goes like March 15."

"That's cool. I like that. Okay. Uh Karen."

"Okay."

"Oh."

"So I ask him."

"Yeah. Ignore me."

"Okay. What was your first impression of me?"

"When I first saw you, I was like, 'Ah, she's very cute. Very cute.'"

"You remember? Like do you remember how you felt or you forgot?"

"I I remember the she's cute."

"Yeah. I remember she's cute."

"Like physically or."

"There's no there's no like."

"Rush of emotion. Of course not. But it's just the Yeah, she's cute."

"And for us men."

"She's the girl who sent that email."

"Physical first. For us men, usually that's you look face. Okay. Like I like."

"And then you get to know. Now you look, you see approachable, not approachable, cute, not cute."

"Okay."

"You said I was the first person you immediately liked."

"Yeah."

"Why?"

"Um, you're funny. I remember you were very funny. You did a magic trick that worked on me. Oh, really?"

"Yeah, I did."

"Listen, I'll teach it to you later. I'll teach it to you later."

"No, it was a good one. And listen, I think I mean, don't forget I was coming from such a low base."

"You know, like an old man. I don't know what."

"Anything is good."

"Anything after that, she's like, 'Wow.' Anyway."

"You know, and honestly, that period of my life, I was single and um I was before that in a relationship for a long time and I, you know, about my past relationship, it wasn't like the the the best relationship. And when I was single, I was really I wasn't looking for anyone. And I just was enjoying my single life. And I had, you know, when a girl all of a sudden is single in in Lebanon, like a small community, everyone's like."

"Trying, you know."

"Yeah."

"Exactly. And I was that girl. And I'm just like, no, no, no. But with him, there was something different about him. And I just felt like Are you I felt like I don't know. I just felt you were very comforting and funny and like physically very much my style. And I'm like, I like him."

"It's nice that when things happen like when you don't plan."

"Yeah."

"Or don't. And a lot of people say this and you might think it's a bit like tick- tocky or cheesy."

"But like they say, Anna said, 'Oh, these things happen to people when they don't plan for it.' Like, okay, you weren't planning. Enter. Were you like thinking?"

"No. No. I keep."

"Like But that or it was just like, uh, interesting."

"No, it was just I called my friend. What's up? What are we doing? And then I met her. Yeah. Don't forget."

"You weren't thinking at all."

"She was 21."

"Yeah."

"You got married how old?"

"24."

"27."

"No. No. 30."

"30. Yeah."

"I met her at 27."

"Okay."

"So, you have six years."

"Yeah."

"Okay. It's good for us, man. We need to mature."

"Slower."

"Okay."

"Yeah."

"Yeah."

"Oh, that's that's the question I had for him. By the way."

"There is one similar, but I saw it and I'm like, 'Okay, it's flipping, so it's okay.'"

"Okay. When was the moment you knew you were falling for me?"

"The moment when because we had a long-distance relationship."

"So, I used to work at HSBC as well. So I used to travel a lot uh around."

"And I was able to work from London for a couple of weeks you know during uh let's say uh working uh times."

"And when I realized that I can spend like all day with her and not be bored I think that's when uh that's when you know when you know like you know I have a companion I can I can I can just hang out with and be myself."

"Yeah."

"Nice. You're like, 'Shit, I'm gone. I must be attached.'"

"Anyway, that's how we were when we first started dating. All our friends were like, 'Okay, guys, we get it, but like make room for us.' And it was just really us."

"But you know what? The the one thing about long-distance relationship is that when you go see the person."

"It's kind of like a mini honeymoon every time. You know what I mean? like you go, let's say I I we used to try to see each other once every two months for maybe like a week, you know, minimum, but that week it would be so like compressed and and and enjoyable. We'd have everything planned out. Today we do this, we do that, let's go see here, let's travel."

"So, it really felt like like a bit of a honeymoon."

"Yeah. Today I had this conversation with a friend and she was saying how interesting would it be if you first listen to a person before you see them."

"Yeah."

"You know that concept. I'm like yeah there's a show called Love Exactly."

"Like no I don't mean that. But I'm like that's the concept right? You get to know."

"Um because the one of my favorite quotes that I always constantly repeat on the show is speak so I can see you."

"That's why Socrates. So it's nice to see someone beautiful but it's much nicer when you get to know them like okay that's cool or the opposite happened you know but for you two."

"You were forced into this long distance position but you you were getting to know each other without the how attaching and hanging out you you're forced to know."

"And and you know it's as much as because we met for like a week in Lebanon that week when we first or the second time when they went for the wedding and then I took her number and then we started dating and we started doing long distance from then."

"It was maybe like two and a half two months maybe until I saw her again."

"So in those two months is exactly what you're saying. It's phone like my phone."

"There was no uh there was no uh."

"There was no FaceTime button."

"It was on video calls. It was phone. It was a phone call getting to know each other and then we got so close and then it's like okay I'm coming."

"Yeah."

"And when you're like you know you're like oh cool amazing and then when it's like tickets both you're like oh my god what what what did I do?"

"I was on I I remember landed in Dubai and I was literally shivering. I'm like I'm going to see someone that I'm so advanced with on the phone. We're like almost saying I love you. Like we're saying not I love you but we're saying like baby baby and I'm like I haven't seen him in so long I forgot what he looks like. So I was."

"Before like before Instagram I can see and it's more like."

"You see a Facebook picture."

"Yeah."

"You know what I mean?"

"I remember it was so."

"It was so I find that really good."

"Real. Yeah."

"Because especially if you if any of you are like physical love language people."

"It can be so distracting to hold somebody's hand to hug or to make out or you're you're distracting in spending time on the physical, which should come either way."

"But when you don't have that option and you really love the person or you're really interested, you have to talk to them."

"What do you like to do? Oh, really? This is and you start to get you're forced."

"Yeah, true. So I find that refreshing."

"You know, like if you if we block men from meeting the woman for a while."

"You want something funny? Funny as well. So she was staying at her friend's house cuz all her friends were in Dubai."

"And we were I think for like a week or a week and a half and when when when she was leaving, she started crying and crying and crying and crying."

"And I was like, she must really really really like me. Yeah."

"And then I found out she cries over everything."

"I was like, 'Oh."

"Actually."

"'You don't like me that much, but I mean.'"

"No, but I remember what I felt. And we used to have a thing for it. I remember I used to call it like fisting pains because I used to feel like my heart was like this every time I would leave. And we said like fist. And I would literally feel like a physical feeling of I'm going to miss him so much. You know, every time he would leave or I would have to leave. It was very a long distance isn't easy. It's hard. I don't think it's sustainable in the long run. I think it's sustainable for a period. That's why I always say like I believe in long distance but it really takes first of all both to be on the same wavelength and both to be willing and to sacrifice because it does take a lot of sacrifice to to make a longdistance relationship work and you need to have a goal."

"You know, like a common goal and I guess you know, we we did so it was worth the."

"When you say common goal end up in the end somebody has to move to with some like another country."

"It was a bit like obvious it would be her because she her masters so she had the flexibility."

"Yeah."

"Yeah. I think that's the only of course nothing I say is a generalist you know but generally I think."

"Um you need to eventually get there."

"Have that."

"You know."

"Or I think it's a bit unfair to the person to the both people like you're it's like you know sometimes at the end of the day you're like you don't have that option in long distance."

"100% you need it at some point."

"Definitely anything that has two questions. You finish one answer. Okay."

"Okay."

"When was the moment you knew you wanted to marry me?"

"Stop."

"Okay. So, there's a funny story there cuz I remember in one of our longdistance trips, he was in London."

"So, I don't remember when when after how long was it like? You remember?"

"Yeah. So, we started officially like dating in April and this was in November. In November, we were in London. I was in London. He came to visit me and like out of nowhere we were just sitting and chatting and he tells me he's like you know I want you to know that if we're still together in two years I was 21 then he's like if we're still together in two years I want you to know that I'm serious about you and I would want to marry you. And I remember feeling like I mean I loved him so much but marriage was like very far for me in my head. I was still young. I was 21 and I was not the kind of girl that looked forward to marriage. I always thought like I'm not going to get married before 30. Like it's not it wasn't in my immediate goals at all. So I remember like getting scared. I'm like I can't commit now to getting married to someone. This is not no it felt too big of a decision. So I remember I told him I'm like I don't know like I can't tell you now if I'm going to get married."

"I wasn't looking for an answer. I was more like just stating you know."

"Yeah. And then."

"It's like what do you think? Yeah."

"So, I remember I was I was a bit freaked out and then he was like, 'Listen, I'm not proposing. I'm just telling you like I'm serious about you. Like, it's supposed to be something good, you know.'"

"And then I that was the end of the conversation. I went to sleep. I woke up and he's like, 'How do you sleep?' I'm like, 'Not very well.'"

"I felt bad sleep, a bit like it was a bit overwhelming. And I feel like I don't want you to think to like me saying, you know, yes. I don't want this to be a commitment. He's like, 'Karen, forget anything that I said. Let's just continue with our relationship as we are and let's forget about it.'"

"That was in November."

"And then uh December, we met again in Lebanon. And I remember from November to December, we just carried on with the relationship. And I'm like."

"Actually, I really want to be with this guy forever. I'm so happy. And if I'm going to be like the way I'm feeling now forever, like what does a girl want more than this? And I remember feeling like safe with him and I felt everything that I needed to feel and then and then I we were out for dinner and I'm like if we're still together in two years I want to marry you too. So at this point I felt that fear that I was feeling was more of a something that was in my mind rather than a fear of what our relationship was. You know what I actually thought about it with my mind. I'm like this is you know my heart is saying yes. So what is stopping me in my head? And it was just the concept of marriage that was scaring me. But in fact, what is marriage? You know, it's just if you find a partner that you're and I couldn't find anyone. I couldn't find I didn't want anything else. This is exactly."

"She went to London. She was like, 'I'm going to find Prince Charming, you know, like.'"

"That was before I met you. Then I was like, no, he's he's he's better than anyone. So then, yeah, I I remember coming back feeling so confident and I told him and I think it was like a cute moment. Did I propose too soon or did I make you wait?"

"No, you didn't make me wait at all. I mean, it was again like I I think I I answered that question because it was I wouldn't say it was to that was in the proposal. Yeah. That was us talking about marriage, but then he waited until I graduated."

"Which I think was also a great thing. And then once."

"A two-year master, right? Yeah."

"Yeah. Two years."

"And then when I graduated, he proposed. So two years your promise came."

"Yeah, it was."

"Luch is a very organized person who has his life planned out. I mean God willing this engineer to finance. I'm very bullet. That's but that's good and it's unfortunately it's rare and this is where like one of my main videos on my socialism as something I learned from my mom where she's she was always telling us a man is a word. You know technically a human is a word but she was telling us boys a man is a word so make it count like when you give somebody your word it should be enough but today and I'm sure a lot of the ladies watching this they struggle with men overpromising uh and you know they'll put flowers on the promise without maybe some of them are actually convinced they'll do what they're claiming to do and some of them are just using it as a tactic to to have a relationship. And it doesn't come through so the woman will think you know I I invested two years with this person or five years and then it doesn't work and and that toxic cycle happens. It's nice."

"I think actually that's something that I really love about Luch that he's really a man of his word like when he says he's going to do something He doesn't need to say it twice. He'll say it once and I know that it's going to happen and he's very honest with how."

"I think he might be answering one of the questions already."

"We'll keep it."

"No, but he really will stick to what he says, you know, whether it's not just with me at work, with with colleagues, with with his children, like anything he says, he's going to it's going to he knows what like he knows what he's saying and he knows that he can do it."

"You'd say that's how your mind works. Like you're very conscious of everything you say."

"Not conscious but very structured. Like my whole life is on an Excel sheet. I don't know about you but I have."

"It's a calendar actually."

"I have calendar Excel you know I have."

"Everything."

"Planned organized."

"So how early did like you know like I asked I made her ask you Basani how long you get to know this woman as a man now manto man. You're getting to know a woman and you you're a good-looking man. You can meet you can date different one. How did you know? Hadi okay I can see in two years you know mother of my kids wife."

"One we connected uh uh uh let's say u through our phone calls which we had the long distance we really connected really liked her sense of humor."

"Um funny caring uh for me she was so good-looking and still is."

"Uh So I was like."

"Both to be fair both you both take care of yourself which is I think should be kind of sorry to interrupt you."

"Should be a good idea for a lot of couples watching this is to keep taking care of yourself don't let go."

"You can look great at 40 50 60."

"100% 100%."

"So you know and then when we do these trips we'd connect so intensely because I said it was such like intense trips that I was like wow I can like I can really see myself with herm And I can see and and she has a lovely mom as well."

"Oh, nice."

"To be to be honest. So, you know how they say that."

"You want to see your wife in 20 years, look at their mom."

"Interesting."

"So, I really like the way her mom."

"Okay."

"So, I got brownie points with your mom. I got brownie points with your mom when she sees us."

"So, uh her mom's a lovely lady. So, I was like, you know what? I I really I really like her mom."

"So, she's going to probably be like that. And I can see myself uh her raising my kids uh being my companion cuz at the end of the day like marriage is a companionship for some and I hope for more."

"Yeah."

"You know that's good. Okay."

"You never asked for the spotlight but my job put you in it. Have you embraced it by now or do you find it annoying?"

"No, I think I've embraced it."

"You know what?"

"You being here is one way of me being here is one of her, right? I think I think like humans are creatures of habits, right?"

"So, at the beginning, I shied away. And then I realized that as she kept growing, you're like there's no there's no turning back. Number one. Number two, it's like you can't hide. So, Ha, start embracing it."

"Um, go along with it. Um, trust me, at the beginning, you know, like I don't know if you I'm a guy's guy, you know what I mean? I play sports, cards, have fun with the guys, mess around."

"So, my my friends were busting my balls at the beginning."

"My my guy friends were busting, you know, their job."

"This is their job. I wouldn't expect anything less of it. You know, you have those like group chats on WhatsApp."

"Sending funny stuff, being mean. for you. Memes memes."

"Oh, memes. Yeah. But, you know, it's guys being guys, you know, at the beginning I was like, 'Oh, god damn it."

"It's going to have they're going to have me for the rest of my life.'"

"And then slowly like it grew turned into a business. And now everyone's like, 'Dude, amazing what you guys are doing.' You know, so that switched from, you know, that like banter to now, dude, we're really proud of what what you guys are doing. Amazing. you know, and I think by me embracing the spotlight maybe earlier on or embracing what she's doing earlier on, it kind of like kept me going because trust me, you know how guys are, they can be really harsh, you know, and then but then you put that away, you're like, listen, there's a bigger goal."

"Uh it's uh it's fine now, but sooner or later."

"You know."

"We're going to 100%."

"And also I think one thing about I would say how you are is he's very supportive and he trusts what we have and he trusts me. So I think I'm speaking on your behalf so correct me if I'm wrong but I think he also knows that yeah this is my job but it will never come at the cost of my family or my husband or anything that might be detrimental to what we have."

"So I think that's tell you can tell that at an early stage of of of like the social media let's say growth you know how a person is going to respond or react."

"Respond or react and you know and because she responded in like all the right ways you need to keep like fueling and and giving that like energy to keep going because it's the right way to to respond."

"I think the only thing I would say is uh Luch is very expressive with his hands. So when he's angry."

"You'll see."

"When he's happy, you'll see it cuz he's he talks with his hands a lot."

"And sometimes."

"I'm like, I'm trying to hold I'm trying to hold the chairs on the side."

"So sometimes we're at the mall and he's like I'm like luch less hands. People are watching us. Less hands. That's I think the only time where I think he forgets, you know, that people know."

"When I'm saying a joke."

"No. Or sometimes he's telling me a story about someone. It's not like he's mad at me, but he tell me and then he came and then whatever and then this and this and."

"He got so mad and he went like this."

"Yeah."

"And then I I look and I see like people looking like this. I'm like just say the story. Just do this."

"But you know, Luch, I I have a a level of appreciation for you embracing something you're not naturally comfortable with. And I know how men can be with their banter or whatever, but it takes a certain type of man that is already at peace and self assured inside to still go on. You know what I mean?"

"100%. Why it can be."

"And then it will cause issues with her like, 'Oh, I can't believe you're doing this and don't call me. Don't invite me. I don't want to be in this because you're influenced by that.' But if you're like, 'Guys, relax. week or week I'm going. It's my wife. It's my companion. I have to.'"

"It takes a certain man to do it."

"He has a a level of maturity I I think and self-confidence like you're saying that I definitely see in him for him to be able from the beginning to one tolerate his wife being in the spotlight."

"Uh you know, being working with me on the brand, but the brand's called Karen Wazen. Um, there's a lot that people don't see about Luch that he does behind the scenes and he doesn't feel at all the need to be to to have the light shed on him and I think this is very manly of him and uh and I respect that a lot in her honesty."

"It's a very good point. Yeah. Even with the brand name, you have to have again if it's ego driven you're screwed. If you have a guy."

"You know, ego, ego is the dream killer."

"Yeah. I think it's a relationship killer. It's."

"It's a cancer."

"100%."

"But to I could see couples that are competing for the spotlight."

"You know, it's not going to last."

"100%."

"You know."

"Oh my god."

"You're like I'm talking."

"Okay. Tell me one of your favorite moments of us together that comes to mind."

"There's so many. I mean, so many honestly. Like um I just love really the simple simple ones when it's just literally me, you, and the kids and we're just like playing. I just feel like nothing else in the world matters literally. And I think we have a lot of these moments. I remember one moment it's it's maybe a bit more not superficial but uh less on the emotional side but I remember uh I got it was like I think last year I got um selected as a BF500 member and it was something that I really wanted."

"And he found out before me that I was that I got that and I remember he called me into the room he's like he's like come I want to tell you something and I remember like I'm like what like what is it? And he's like and then basically he told me and I remember literally like jumping just literally like jumping out of how happy I was and and I remember like I saw in his face that he was so happy for me that I was you know that I got something that I wanted and also I felt that he was proud."

"And uh and I remember I'm like I don't know I remember that. Do you remember this? Yeah."

"This is I guess one but I mean."

"I pulled her leg. I'm like listen sit down. I have to tell you something."

"'You might not like it.'"

"'But you've been selected.'"

"Yeah. But that's again like we have so many, you know, I was I'm so grateful. We have so many amazing moments when I found out I was pregnant. I mean, not with Carly and Kate, that was that was a scary moment, but with with Georgie. I remember as well feeling like true such a big rush of emotions and."

"Yeah. uh you mentioned a point that I think is very important to highlight. It's and it goes on to friends, it goes on to family, it goes on to of course a partner, someone who's happy or as happy and sometimes maybe happier for you than you for you."

"Yeah."

"And it's very rare. I can remember very few people in my life. I remember the first time I was on a radio station. And if you're on a radio station, okay."

"You made it. And I had friend a friend in mind um because so many friends didn't give a like they really didn't care and I'm not upset like it was like okay he's on the radio but I have a life and I have one of my friends and I have to tell him after the interview to to thank him because I never told him how much I appreciate but he was in a car with his mom and him and his mom stopped and put on the radio because they were so proud that Annis is."

"And he's not my best friend. Yeah."

"And I that always stuck with me because so many people who love me didn't."

"And I'm like how nice."

"That some and I didn't took the time out of his life."

"Yeah."

"So."

"By the way, it's usually them."

"Yeah. For me, that's why when she said you were happy, she could see it in your face. I really think that's when you know you really have a good person in front of you."

"Yeah. Envy is jealousy because some people have it. It's their insecurities and whatever competitive side, but to truly purely be happy because it's not even for them."

"Yeah. Yeah. It was literally it's just Yeah. It was just something for me and I felt like he was so happy and I remember like I was literally like jumping like no not exaggerating. I was literally jumping and I could see in his face how happy it was for me and it was a cute moment."

"I like that."

"Okay. On to tougher questions."

"Yeah. Got it."

"Was there a moment you thought something might break us?"

"Not really."

"Yeah."

"I think we really had like a tight relationship from the from from the start. I think the reason why is because I always trusted you and I feel that you trusted me from from the start. You know, you can tell we were a bit more mature for our age than than than the way we should have maybe been acting at that uh at that age. You know, like even when she went out clubbing with her friends, I trusted her. But so many times, especially here, you remember like the days of like chooses we used to go to. Sometimes I would skip that with my friends to to be on Skype with her and we we would Skype talk the whole night."

"And then sometimes she would sleep Skype."

"You know, she would her screen would be on, my would be on. We'd sleep."

"So."

"We'd sleep just with our Skype on just I mean maybe maybe people don't know what Skype is. I don't know."

"Like Zoom."

"It's like Zoom."

"They probably have no clue this what Skype is. Like Zoom. Exactly. So we used to sleep with both of our cameras on so that it's like almost as if."

"100%."

"Yeah."

"You know, and then like my room my roommate was like was like, 'Dude."

"No listening. Let's go out."

"Yeah. Let me just finish this phone call and I'll meet you guys there, which you never end up doing, right?"

"And then Yeah. So I think listen, I think we had a very mature relationship from the start."

"Yeah."

"The So everything we're going to see is there's a reasoning. Nothing is for gossip or clickbait."

"So why I ask this because you know how many of your friends and I my friends they will talk about how obviously every marriage or every love relationship goes through ups and downs and some of them are close to divorce and some of them are never and some of them become miserable but they stay. So there's always this topic. Okay. Were you at a tough point and then what made you go to the next?"

"I think it was Lewis House who told me you just have to learn to keep falling in love with the new version of your partner. And that was a cool way. Maybe it's nice on words, but I don't know if it's as practiced."

"But that's kind of this question. I think you need to like also try to evolve together and and and and finding hobbies you like doing together. Like for example now like like Karen is recently maybe the past year and a half is going through let's say a fitness journey you might want to say or a health journey. She got a whoop. I got a whoop together. Uh she wants to do her 10,000 steps a day no matter what. I've always been athletic, so I'm like encouraging her. So, now."

We go on like walks together at night, which we never used to do before. You know, I used to go. So, now I feel we're like growing. The more you grow together into hobbies you like doing together, I think the more you learn to fall in love with the newer version because you're molding each other to things you like, you know?

And I think Lucha and I are, you know, when I think of my especially my daughters, I really and I tell them I really tell them I really hope for you to find the love that I have with your dad. And it's just because I really feel that both of us want to have the person in front of us be the best version of themselves. And I think we really work hard on that. Like I don't take my marriage for granted at all and I don't think Luj does either. It's something we both are very lucky I mean to have each other to both recognize the value of what we have and not to take it for granted and we really work hard on it.

So if for example for whatever reason we're going through a phase where we feel a bit more disconnected, we both recognize it. We don't let it last. Yeah. And we just, "Okay, let's travel. Let's go. Me and you alone. Let's do this. Let's do date night. Let's do," you know, if we feel that we're going through a phase like that because obviously, you know, we have three children, we have work. Um, life just sometimes takes you in different directions, but I don't think it's ever, I mean, we've been together 15 years, but I don't think we've ever let it go long to the point where it's been a problem.

And there's something actually that's quite, I think, unique and very solid in our relationship. And when we first got married, um, my grandfather and my grandma were like the example of what love is really like. They were so in love and they, my grandfather passed away like in love with my grandma and my grandma too. And I remember when we got married, we spoke to my grandfather and my grandfather told us. I asked him, "What is it? What is the secret to you being so in love still with my grandma?" And he told us one thing and he said, "We've never slept one night angry at each other." And he said, "Make sure you don't sleep angry at each other."

And, you know, we've been together 15 years and not one night did we sleep angry at each other, literally. And it doesn't mean that we don't fight or we don't argue, but we just really make sure that we fix the situation like on the spot. By the time we're sleeping, by the time we're ready to sleep, that we're good. And I will make sure, "Are you really good?" "Yeah." "Am I really good?" "Yeah." And then we'll sleep. Like we'll have not let one day pass like that.

It's nice that you had a role model also. Yeah. And your grandparents. Even though my parents are divorced, you know that. And so the role model of marriage was more the grandparents. But it's good to see that there is, I think it's sometimes this idea of hope. Yeah. Yeah, especially in a very pessimistic, understandably pessimistic world when it comes to marriage and serious relationships because a lot of people don't have the education or the know-how on how to manage a modern marriage today. It's very different than 50 years ago, 70 years ago. So I understand why people are pessimistic. I think at some point we're very skeptical. But to have a grandfather and then you say, "Okay, I can maybe take these things, adapt them to a basic rule. We don't sleep while having a grudge."

I think this is, it sounds basic, but I know how hard it is if you're arguing and to be like pushing your ego and say like, "Okay, are you okay?" Like, it's hard. Somebody has to take the first step, you know? It's tough, but that's what love is. Yeah. Because that's a true test of love. Not when everything is rosy. Yeah. Yeah. You're having a really tough day and you, and it's usually the person who feels that they're a bit more in the wrong, they kind of like, you know, like do a little, "Hey, what's up?" You know what I mean? Who's the peacemaker more, you or you? It depends on what. I think both. But Lucha is also very good at saying sorry. Like, it comes back to, no, like I don't want to say no ego because everyone has an ego. It comes back to controlling an ego that doesn't take over. And I would say I'm good at not escalating. So when I know that Lucha is angry at something, I know what I can do to provoke it even more and make it bigger. And I know how to take a step back, let him have the time that he needs until, you know. Don't forget she's a psychotherapist. Yeah, it helps. It helps a lot. Sometimes she uses her techniques on me. "How are you really feeling? How are you really feeling?" She's like, "Just lay down, put your head up. I'm going to ask you some questions."

It's there's a lot to learn from this, you know. And for me, part of why I wanted both of you here is not only about this relationship. It's about what it can influence outside. The questions, yes, I'm asking two people that are together because I think it's more justified because you have the numbers under your belt, experienced kids, mashallah. And from outside, you seem happy and healthy. I'm like, "Okay, you know, we can get their relationship." But how can it reflect on people having problems? Or, you know, I see it today and it makes me, it makes me also feel a bit, not sad, but it is disappointing because I do feel that there isn't a lot of respect anymore for unity, marriage. I do see that it's taken quite lightly. And, you know, we've had this conversation before. I believe in divorce and I believe that divorce is at some point, in some marriages, it's very important. And I think, for example, my parents, I'm grateful that they divorced. I think it's an amazing decision that they've made. They are both extremely happy and they have both given me, I think, and my sisters and my brother, an understanding of how important it is to make the right decision before getting married. And I think because Luch knows that I'm not the word isn't comfortable with divorce, but that divorce is an option if I'm not happy, he knows that. So he knows not to, you know, I mean.

That's not the reason why I'm staying with you. No, but, no, but I mean, like, you know that you're not gonna make me happy and if I'm not happy, I'm going to leave. And I know that. You know, this is a very good point. Sorry, don't forget your thought, but I want to make a point. I think every man and woman should know that, like subconsciously know and consciously that they would leave me. Like, you should know, like not like complacency. Number one, I agree because your body goes down, like you see men go fat, or women who let go of their body. That is a sign of complacency. "I have the ring and I'll do whatever I want with my body," or "I'm not going to show the love or the interest or the compliments or the dates." But I think for a healthy marriage, both should know this person is not going to tolerate everything. They would leave me at some point. I think that's what I meant. Maybe you're better at expressing it than I was. But you know what I mean? Like, you know that I'm not going to take being unhappy, and you're going to make sure that I'm happy. And the same with you, you know. And I will never, I will never tolerate going against what I believe a marriage should be and remain with my husband if I'm living another life, which I know that has unfortunately become quite more common, at least, you know. And that's why I'm grateful that my parents got a divorce. And I think Luch would not be in love with you if he thought you're the type that would stay. Yeah. I swear, like, from the little I'm learning about this guy, he's a competitor. He wants the best of the best. And if he gets a complacent, no self-worth or no self-esteem, or "I'm going to accept whatever," I think he'll be bored in one year. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, he keeps me on my feet a lot because I know, I swear, because Luch is like you said, you know, he's, I think Luch could have easily been an athlete. Luch is extremely gifted athletically. I didn't, I don't think there was the culture at his time to make a profession out of being an athlete, but he has the mindset of an athlete and he is extremely competitive and extremely like goal-getter and he really does want the best for himself and for the ones that he loves. So he's literally like, "What did you do today?" Like, he just wants to make sure that I'm not wasting my time, not wasting my talent, you know. And I'm often, I often feel this like, "Okay, I want to do more. I can do more." L shows me that I can do more, you know. And I want to make him proud and I want to make myself proud. And he makes me feel like I can be that person and not to settle or be complacent, to really love myself and to want the best for myself.

There was an interesting point that my therapist was talking about the competitive men. So we were talking about the idea, you know, when you grow up, especially in our generation, the music video is like 60 women, one guy, you know, like the more women you have, the more masculine. And that's our definition of masculinity. Very false. No intimacy, just numbers, right? And I was telling him like about these wrong perceptions of what we grew up thinking masculinity is. "The more the marrier," and you go tell the guys, "I'm talking to 10 girls." Oh, wow. You know, like all wrong. Wrong KPIs. You know? So, and then he said, you know, an if competitive men, and I think you're already doing it, that's why I'm bringing it up. He's like, it's if you're really competitive and it's not about how many women you can get. It's how many times you can win over the same woman. That's real competition. And I'm like, "Man, that's exactly it." Because it's if you're suave and you're educated and you're good-looking, you can go, you talk to somebody, you get their number. It's not that hard. Especially in today's, the access is everywhere. But you get one good woman and she, you keep her on her feet like she said, and she's still like, "I love this guy." You know, like, I really, I mean, he knows it. I don't think he knows it, but like sometimes he wakes up before me. So I wake up. I mean, he's still in the room and everything, but like getting ready. And then I wake up and I look at him and I tell him, like, he's very much my style, even physically and everything. And I just tell him, like, "I feel so lucky," you know, that I get to wake up next to him every day, you know? Yeah. She got stuck with her words for you, huh? It's a good sign. Okay. I love him. Bigger topic.

If I cheated, would you want to know why or would you just walk away? Um, can it be both? I mean, I would want to know why and I would walk away. And you would walk away? You know why I would walk away? I mean, even though I do believe in chances, but I know myself and I know that it's going to break something that I don't think I will be able to. I might forgive, but I will not be able to forget it. And I know that I will have this feeling where every time he doesn't answer his phone, or if I'm on a work trip, or it will cross my mind. And I don't think I can live with that feeling. And I think that if it's happened once, and that trip happened once, it can happen again. And I don't think I can live with that. And I think this is just how I am. And I do think that someone who can cheat once can cheat again. Easier. Of course, there is that. Especially if you forgive it. There is that saying, you know, "Once a cheater, always a cheater. Once a liar, always a liar." I edited it for me. Like, it's just my version. I think, "Once a cheater, almost always a cheater. Once a liar, almost." Because I've seen, I've seen drug addicts. I've had one on the show, five times rehab. And the fifth time, it worked. He's been sober for 14, 15 years. Jiu-jitsu world champion. National team of Bahrain. So I'm like, you know, that's such a good story. Fifth time. So, but that's one thing. It's another thing to be able to be that patient. Like, you're not obliged for saying, like, "I hope my cheater partner this time will not cheat." It's hard. But do I believe some people change? And I'll tell you why, Luch. I'm, I brought this question not again for gossip because it's a big topic and it's a big thing in the society today. And you both, for me, represent kind of blind trust. And I think this blind trust is so important because you're a busy woman, you're a busy man, you're good-looking, you're good-looking, you can, it's easy to get attention elsewhere. Like, "Oh, he's not giving me attention, I'll get my IV from somewhere else." But for me, it's like this big debate of, do you tolerate it? Do you not tolerate it? Do you understand it? Do you just walk away? What? And there was this session of Oprah Winfrey with eight couples, and all of the men were cheaters in that episode. And she asked them, "Did you cheat for the men?" Like, "Did you cheat because you, you know, you wanted physical attention or you were bored?" And none of them said they were just like horny or they just wanted to jump on any person. They were talking about like, there was a symptom. There was a problem in the relationship already. So that's something I wanted to say as well. I wanted to say that I will make sure as a partner in this marriage not to let my partner get to the point where he needs something that's outside of what he can get from me. So I will do my part in that. And I also don't think that cheating happens overnight. Don't think that you trip on something and fall and cheat. I don't think this is how it is. Cheating is a buildup. And if you're going to let your mind accept going through the first phase, the second phase, the third phase, the fourth phase, until it becomes something that's physical or something that you thought about it, you let that happen. It's not something that happened overnight. One night you went out, a girl was flirting, you flirted back, it was innocent, whatever. You know you're doing something wrong. Stop. Don't play with the fire. Stop there. You know, and I, it's both ways. I don't think guys only cheat. I think a lot of girls cheat. And this is why I need this episode and different episodes to kind of try to kind of balance that there is healthy love and there is communication and there is blind trust. And a lot of the guys would maybe the insecure ones like, if you don't trust your wife, it has nothing to do with mine, you know. But I want your, listen, trust. In everything, in like business, relationship, it takes so long to build, but so quickly can be broken. You know, it takes years to build trust, but that one time you mess up, whether it be in business, in relationship, in friendship, whatever, it's broken. You know, so you really have to take care of that trust because it's so easily damaged. And once it's damaged, like she said, it's hella hard. It's so hard. It's like a balloon, you know, that has like a little, it's just a little hole in it, but with time, the air is going to come out of that balloon and the balloon is going to get, you know. So and that's how I see. Even if it's just a small thing, but it's going to break something and eventually it's going to dissolve what you have. This is how I see it.

I have two points on what you said. The first one, you said, even if I choose to stay and I forgive, it will keep haunting me. Like it could be literally your partner looking at a message. It could be literally from his brother and he smiles. You're like, "What's that? Why is he smiling?" So now you have this ongoing insecurity. Same if your wife. And I find that such torture. Yeah, exactly. Like something. And I agree. I feel the same way. Like if the roles were reversed, I'd also be like, you know, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. You know. And, you know, we, Luch and I, I think, and I think in general, not just us, but a marriage is supposed to be something that's positive, you know, that's adding to. And it's supposed to be comfortable and supposed to feel safe. It's not supposed to feel like a battlefield. It's not supposed to feel like there's someone who's winning over the other. It's not supposed to feel like a scary place. And I think what makes us, I would say, successful at our jobs, what makes us good parents, is that we're safe and comfortable and happy at home. And if that was taken away from me, I don't think I would be a good parent. I don't think I would be good at my job. I don't think I would be a kind even person in society because my mind, I wouldn't be present. My mind is always going to be somewhere else. Whereas right now, my marriage is just, it's just a safety net for me. It's so, it's so, I don't worry about it, you know. And I think it should be that way. And if it's not that way, I won't be who I am.

I want to ask you something that I speak of, but you can tell me if I'm wrong or right. From my perception of good relationships, it's um, it has to be multi-threaded. You know, in some relationships that we see, they're just attracted to each other physically. They're together, but it's all like physical chemistry. In some relationships, maybe not the physical, it's the mental. In some, it's like, uh, like she's the mother of my kids. I just stay there because she got me kids or vice versa. I've noticed the ones, and those are, sorry, so the one-threaded relationships are so easy to break because the moment that functionality is weak, like, "I've had enough kids," and then, yeah, I don't, but you're like, "Can you talk?" They're like, "No, we, I don't get, I talk to the guys." So I noticed one-threaded relationships are very fragile. But when you have multi-threaded relationships, which seems to be yours, you were the Skype buddies, you were, you make each other laugh, you can spend the whole day together, you said, and not get bored. You are parents to kids, and you have same hobbies. But when you have multi-threads, even if a few of them are weak, you have other fish. And this last thing about this example that I want to hear your point of view is, it makes it much harder to break the heart of someone that is so intertwined in you and giving you so much. If it's just one thread, maybe it's like me, you know, it's not that valuable in my life. Yeah, that's very spot on actually. And I think with, with Luj, it's that there's so many fundamentals I think that are there that if, for whatever reason, one of them is not there, I don't know, physically, whatever, something happens to one of us, and you know, but there's so much more that's going to hold us together. Or, um, I don't know, let's say I count on him as a bit of like a mentor or someone, you know, and he's going through a phase where he's down, he's not, there's other things that are putting us together, you know. So we definitely have that. And in fact, Luch is, and he knows that, like, and I think and the same for you, but we're actually like besties. Like we spend so much time together, like literally willingly, like we want, we enjoy each other's company a lot. You know, we're friends and we just, we really get along. And from your point of view, what do you think? Like what I said, do you think it's true? 100%. I mean, if you don't have like layers to your relationship, once the first layer cracks, then it's over. You know, we have so much to besides kids, which is the obvious way. You know, people get married, they want to have kids, but like she said, you know, we're like best friends. We hang out. We love each other's company. We do everything together. We have a business together. So I mean, it's, we're intertwined in a beautiful way, don't get me wrong, you know. So I feel sometimes like my friends are a bit like, I mean, they obviously know how we are, but I think sometimes it's like, "Okay, fine, like I get it, but you know, you can also make time for like us." And I, and I get that because I do feel that I don't have a lot of time to give outside of what I had used to, you know. Yeah, like we used to. Um, but that's why I feel like so lucky that I actually really enjoy my time with Luch because it's not, it's a time that we look forward to and not, we don't cut it short, you know, like. And I make sure, let's say for example, he has, let's say paddles and cards, for example. On those days, these are the days where I will do something with my friends, you know, not on the days where he's free and not on, and he will not do something, a commitment on a day where he, you know. So we just make sure that we're minimizing, we fill each other's like schedule, you know, like she has something, I'll do something with the boys or vice versa. Yeah. Looks like a nice tag team, you know.

After being married for this long, what do you think is the most important thing that has kept this marriage alive? Trust and honesty. Yeah. I think I think trust because like, like you said, I mean, we're on social media, you get exposed to a lot of stuff. If I didn't trust you, trust me, I would be miserable. Yeah. You know. And, you know, you can't, how do I put this in the right words? You can't be able to trust if you're not okay with yourself. 100% I agree. I agree. You know what I think also, contrary to what people might assume, you know, they think of couples that work together, you know, that's it's going to make them eventually fight or it's going to make them. But I think the fact that we work together has gotten us even closer because we're part of each other's day-to-day. Like anything that happens at work, he's aware of, I'm aware of. So we have this closeness that's not just on the fundamentals, but that's also in the daily. And I think that's also what keeps us so connected that we're very aware of. So if I'm having a down day, he understands exactly why. He knows why I'm tired. He knows what happened. And same with him. It's not like we're disconnected from each other's worlds where we're like, "I'm not going to understand what he's going through. He's not going to understand what I'm going through." You know? And I think just on the honesty part is like, if you're feeling down for a specific reason, tell me. Don't keep it in and let it boil and boil and grow. You know what I mean? So I think it goes back kind of to the, let's say, the knowledge her grandfather like gave to us, you know, never sleep angry at each other. But it's also maybe if you have something which you want to say, just say it. Let's work on it. Don't hold it in and let it grow. Some people hold stuff in for years. And then all of a sudden they like explode on their partners and they're like, "Where the hell did this come from?" "You've been doing this." I'm like, "Just tell me from before. We'll work on it. We'll fix it." You know, I think that's the two main things is trust, trust, and honesty. This could be a long one, huh? Watch out. Maybe short. Maybe short.

Why do you still love me? Uh, I love you because you are, okay, I don't know how I'm going to phrase this. You are still the person that I loved when I first met. And you've evolved with me every day as well. So there is this, and that, which is what I feel for you. You've evolved with me that if I met you today, I would love you the exact same way and I would feel the exact same way that I felt when I met you then. Does that make sense? I feel we've evolved on really like on in the same, in the same ways that you will always be like a crush, even, you know. Like I like that answer. It was a good one. I actually love that answer. And I'll tell you why. I don't think it's a fluff answer. Uh, I usually draw up or imagine healthy relationships like two dolphins swimming. You know when dolphins do this? Yeah. Like sometimes he's a bit ahead, maybe in his career or in his health, and then sometimes he cannot. And then you go, but you keep at similar speeds. And I think that's the beauty of a good relationship because I remember in my relationship or my ex-marriage, I remember nobody was bad, but I felt the trajectory of our growth or evolving. We were very young. I think sometimes even if I am at two degrees to the right and you are at one degree to the left, if you multiply that with time, by with time, you can become so different. And that's without me even putting in the factor of time as speed. And if we're even similar, similar direction, but he's going at 8 km and you're going at one, at some point, someone's left behind. So I think your answer was like this, like you evolved together. It's so cute how you said, like, "I would still fall in love with you, you know, this new guy." So that's nice. And how old were you when you got married? 24. She was 19. 24. 19. Okay. Two. Very young. Yeah. But also, I don't think it's just about the age. I think it's maybe you didn't know each other that well to know if that person was really someone, you know, that you'll that you can be with. Because you can, I do believe it also comes with the maturity. It's not only age, it's also again, come back to her, the evolving speed and similar directions. Yeah. And you kind of like, you know, my parents, for example, they met quite young. And everyone that I speak to that was friends with my parents at the time, they had the biggest shock when my parents got divorced because my parents were lovebirds. They went against all odds to be together. They were 10 years together in secret to be able to get married. And so they really fought for each other, you know, and they really loved each other. And it was very shocking to people like, "What? These, you know?" But it's that, it's the factors didn't. There was a factor of them being together despite something. When that factor was gone, they discovered other layers, I would say, to them. This is how I analyze it. I've never had a conversation with them specifically about this, but I think I hope they don't mind, but I think that with us or in general, you need to just make sure that when you are with that person, there isn't an anomaly factor that might change with time, you know, because when that goes, will you still be who you are? I don't know. For us, not much has changed, you know, like in who we were as people, like as individuals, you know, we've evolved, yes, but factors around remain. Good talk.

When I, uh, two questions. Yeah. Two. So, stop at one. Okay. When I say the names George, Carly, and K, how does your heart feel? Fulfilled. Yeah. And love. Yeah. And am I a good mother? Of course you are. You know, she, we're having actually a conversation recently. You know, you do like regular checkups as as a woman. And the doctor was like, "Listen, she's 38. She's like, 'Listen, if you're looking to have kids again, now's the perfect time.' Yeah. Because you're getting, you have two eggs and you're primed for twins. If you guys want twins, now's the time for twins." So, you know, we actually had like a bit of a debate like, "Should we do it? Should we not do it?" You know, my kids are 10 now, so they'll be 11. So I don't know. I just don't think we, Yeah, I know. We decided, we decided not to, you know. She's a great mother, but again, you know, we kind of evolved in our relationship and now we're doing stuff with our kids like we're traveling together. We're taking them out for dinner. They can actually now have dinners with us. You know, before they get so tired at like 9:00 or 8:30. I want to go to bed. Now, you know, we go, we have fun. I can't see ourselves. Yeah. 100%. It would feel like almost, even though they really want, like every day my kids literally every day they'll come to us, "Go make a baby. We want another baby." And now they, they understood how to make a baby. Like they know. So they're like, "Go make a baby now." Am I a good dad? Oh, the best. The best. I swear. I think I'm a good mom, but I think that Luch is the best dad. Honestly, Luch is a mom. He's. And that's a lot saying. That means a lot. Luch is the one that is on the group chats with the other moms. He's the one that's putting the kids in activities. He's the one that's with the kids at activities. He's the one that's dropping them off, that's picking them up, that's doing the groceries for them, that's cooking for them, that's buying books for them, that's getting activity books for them. He's the one, not me. And you know, a lot of the times I hear women complaining about the husband like, "She or they're doing everything for the kids." And I just cannot relate because my husband probably feels this way about me. Like I'm the one who maybe does, I mean, I do obviously a lot for my kids, but differently, which is extremely present. He wants, you know, like now what he was saying about us not having another child because he wants to be there for the kids and he loves the time with the kids. Like he's a real parent. He's not just there as a dad. You know, especially in our culture, unfortunately, sometimes the dad's job is a lot more limited than a mom as a parent. And Luch is not that. He's a real example of a dad. And I, and my kids are so lucky. Thank you. You know, she tells me that. So I know. It's refreshing to hear Luch, because you are really crushing taboos of how men are supposed to be. And you're doing it. I don't think you're doing it with the intention to do that, but you are. That's happening. Annie, the way I'm listening to this conversation today, the way you're not competitive with your wife, you're not jealous, you trust. And the fact that you're not even, you don't mind being the guy behind the camera, right? And now the fact that you don't mind, I want to take my kids. This takes so much healthy masculinity to do. He cleans at home, by the way. Yeah. Because it's one thing if a man doesn't mind. It's another thing is to be knowing that in this society, he's the one person and somebody's gonna make a comment or somebody's gonna make fun, but still be like, "You know what? I like to do this." Takes a very different level of. I like to get things done. And I don't have time to waste. I like to get things done. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Let's move on. Yeah, but you also enjoy it. Like you like to be. I enjoy like getting activities for the kids, you know. I really like sports. So I put the kids in sports. Like Saturday mornings, I'm sleeping in. Luch is taking the kids out. And there's always something else. He'll take them either to play paddle or he'll take them to the basketball field. Or he's doing it all by himself. I have no idea. I come back. And he would have done so much with them already, you know. He's very, very, very hands-on. Very hands-on. Maybe that's why it's also working well. I said, thank him. Yeah. And a lot of the times, and he knows, because also there's a lot that I do as a mom that maybe wives don't do. You know, I work very, very hard also. You know, I also provide, you know, I, so I come with a lot of stuff that maybe typical women won't do. And he comes with a lot of stuff that maybe typical men won't do, you know. And and I like that we are not intentionally, but we are kind of breaking the norms in a lot of ways, you know. This model works for you, both of you. And I think Luch is a very big team player, maybe because of your sport background. You don't, you respect the rules and who's good at what and okay, that person is the striker, he should be getting the ball. And even sometimes, like I have a lot of trips. So between, I have let's say, three trips in one month. And for me, it makes me sad that I need to be away from my kids for that long. And then he'll comfort me like, "I'm here, don't worry." And I know that him being there is me being there even more. There's probably more structure at home. There's probably more, you know. There is more structure. Trust me, I'm like the stricter one. She's the more lenient one at home. You.

What do you hope our children learn about love from watching us? I wish they can see the respect. So the way I respect you, the way you respect me. And I wish that they won't settle for anything less than that. Yeah. To be honest, because at the end of the day, it's it's it's a respect and trust between each other. And I think they, they see that. The kids and they see that we're really a team, you know. They see that we do a lot of things together. They see it. And sometimes they find it cringe. But I think on the long run, it'll. 100%. At the end of the day, everyone looks at their parents as role models, if you want to believe it or not, you know, you're influenced by your parents. So, 100%. So, I mean, hopefully we're setting a good example which they can reach. Your parents are together? My parents are together. Yeah. And for you, do you think seeing a parent divorced pushes you to make sure you put that extra effort not to? Um, I see a lot of love with my parents with their new partners. So my dad and his wife are very in love and my mom and her partner are very in love. So I still see, I'm around a lot of love, you know. My sisters are very much in love with their. We have a lot of love at home. And love is, I don't, I cannot live without love, honestly. I really, really can't. Like, it's, I need it. I need to feel like I'm, it's nurturing. I need it in my life and I need it with my kids. And I want my kids to see the love. And I kiss him in front of them and I hug him in front of them. Sometimes they do it on purpose and they go crazy. Ew, that's so cringe. You don't know how important it is. Little hugs and little kisses. And imagine the child is watching everything. 100%. And if you're telling him, "We're dry as a couple," he's going to have a very dry relationship with his partner. But if you're like, And they remember everything, kids, by the way. Even like our kids, like maybe we said something three years ago, she'd be like, "Three years ago, you said." I'm like, "What the hell? Do you even remember? You're seven years old." Yeah. So, yeah.

Our family in one word. Unit. I would say. I feel like we're such a like like a squad, right? I'd say special. Mhm. Yeah. Because also, you don't find too many kids who, as of now, they're all the same age. Yeah. All of them are 10 years old. Three kids. All three kids. They're not triplets, but they are. One's born 2014, one's born 2015. But between August 20. So now our daughters now just turned 10 and Georgie is still 10 and will turn 11 at the end of October. End of October. So I think that's pretty special. Apparently, it's healthier for the women to have a child after each other. Not waiting. It was a bit of a risk for me because I had a C-section and usually you need time for your scar to heal. But that's a whole other AB talk. It's a whole another. When I found out she was getting twins, I almost fainted. Yeah. Literally, by the way. Literally, because you know, I was, I was, I was working at HSBC and I have like my colleague next to me. And you know how you are. And you know me, I'm a very structured guy. So I have like my plan. Okay, I get one kid, I work two years, maybe I do this, maybe I do that, we get another kid. I don't know what. Two months after she delivered, she got pregnant. That's like, I don't know. I mean, maybe you don't know, but that's very, very, very tight, you know. So she called me and she's like, "Hey, you know, I'm not feeling well. I don't know why." No, no. I basically, I felt nauseous one day, tired and just really tired. And I'm like, "Something's wrong with me." And I told him, and when I felt that nausea, I'm like, it reminded me of another nausea that I felt, which was a few months before. So I told him, I'm like, "Do you think I'm pregnant?" He's like, "There's no way you're pregnant. Like, that's not how it works. Like, you're not pregnant." You don't get pregnant like that. So I remember I, the next morning, no, that day I went, I got like a test, a pregnancy test. And he didn't take me seriously at all. That he didn't even. I still will remember I was in the other room playing with my son, who was three months old. Three months old. Oh, no. He was like two, two. No, he was three months when I found out. Three months. He was three months old and we were still not sleeping. You know, you have a three-month newborn basically. And I was still like, I still had my pregnancy weight on from my son. And I remember sitting in the toilet and I'm like, "Come with me. I want to do the test. Come with me." He was like, "I'm like, 'Listen, no way you're pregnant.'" Like, "No way you're pregnant." And then I remember sitting and then looking and so the first time I took a P test with Georgie, the pregnancy test, it was plus minus. Like, plus you're pregnant, minus you're not. So I remember I took it and then I look at it and it was written in my face, pregnant. It wasn't like it was, no plus or minus, either pregnant or. And I remember doing. And then he's like, "What?" I'm like, "I'm pregnant." He's like, "There's no way you're pregnant." Like, this is just to the extent whereby I'm like, "There's no way you're pregnant. It's probably like still like, I don't know. I don't know the hormones from your previous." Say, like, "There's no false." I told him, "There's no, they say there's no such thing as a false positive." You know what I mean? And then she called like the doctor. "Doctor, I think I'm pregnant. Come tomorrow and we'll do the test." I was so certain of myself. And there's no way. I'm like, "I'm not even going to go." You know, I have a lot of work. There's no way she's pregnant. I went by myself. You know. And then. And I was sitting and then he was like, and I was crying. He's like, "Why are you crying?" I'm like, "What do you mean? Like, I just gave birth. We're not." He's like, "Are you not ready to have a baby?" I'm like, "Does the doctor know?" I'm like, "No, I'm not ready to have a baby, but let's just see." And then he's like, "Let's see. Let's see. Maybe it's like some not a false, whatever." He does the ultrasound. And then he starts literally laughing. And I'm like, "What's funny?" He's like, "Karen, not only are you pregnant, but you're pregnant with twins." And I was like, "What?" And I remember, it was the first time in my life where I was laughing and crying at the same time. I was literally like. I was like that. And alone, like how am I going.

To tell Luke? He thinks I'm going to call him and tell him I'm not pregnant. Now I'm calling and telling him that we're having twins and he's mister. I have my five-year plan and that's going to change.

And then she calls me and and I used to work on a trading floor, so I couldn't pick up the phone on myself, so I had to go outside the floor. There's like a glass window. I go, "No, you're not pregnant." She's like, "Baby, we're having twins." I'm like, "Oh my god."

He literally like. I'm like, "Oh my god, I need to get water." He literally was about to faint. Like, I'm like, "What? Two twins?" Know one. I thought, I'm like, first of all, is it healthy? That was my first concern. You know, you know, two months, you right after your, you just got pregnant. By then, twins, they come early. It's not nine months, it's like seven and a half, eight, you know. So, I was like, is it healthy to give, and I've never heard of someone giving birth that soon? Number one. I went back to my desk and then I'm like, "Listen, I told my boss at that time, like, dude, I'm not feeling well. I, I need to go home." He's like, "Yeah, man, go home." I told my colleague next to him, I'm like, "Dude, was one, two, three, four?" He's like.

Everyone, by the way, the funniest thing was people like, imagine there was this girl who came because Georgie was three months. Like, you tell someone and like, I'm pregnant with twins. Like, okay. So it's funny how word spreads around. Yeah, I won't say. Of course. So, this, this girl comes to me to Tanina with the with my with Georgie and then she was like, "By the way, I heard this like crazy story." I'm like, "What?" She's like, "This girl was um pregnant and she had just given birth. Sorry, she was just given birth and she found out that she's pregnant with twins." And I'm like, [laughter] you're like, you're like, you're looking at her. She was like talking about the girl, not knowing because somebody had said the story without saying that a kid. I'm like, that it's me. The girl, she's like, "Why did I get pregnant with [laughter] twins?" So it was like a thing, you know, at the time. So I do agree that it's very special about what we had and quite unique.

I have two last questions before your questions. Yeah. Okay. If this is the last time we see each other, what would you say to me? Of course, I love you. And take care of the kids. Why are we doing this? This is more a question about um gratitude. Mhm. Um, sometimes when I have the people here, I want them to have this moment of realizing that, you know, you'll be gone, inshallah, but this is life. And sometimes when I bring the topic of death, you, you did [laughter] you realize how precious and fragile what you have is, and you can put an extra promise that you don't take anyone for granted. You know, but this is why this question is there and it works. And people like, after this, after the cameras, I'm sure you're going to have the biggest love and hug together because if your love is true, it's a beautiful reminder of what you have and what you have, you know. So, yeah, it's a tough question. So.

He, he left the the crying one for last. You want the last tough one? Sure. If I don't live to see our grandkids and then they grow up and ask you, "How was grandpa?" How would you describe me? I would cry, I'm sure, every time I'd speak about you. And I'd say you're the best. [gasps and sighs] I really don't think I can live without him, honestly. Well, I hope you guys [clears throat] live really long, cuz I have a lot of love for both of you. Thank you. And you, you represent, I hope it's all true what I feel for both of you and what I see. Uh, only both of you know when the doors are closed and you're alone. But it's, it makes me feel warm to see both of you and how you put an effort to be good people and good parents, and you're more selfless than selfish. Yeah. And I think this is what real love is. When you are more selfless. It's not about, it's me, me. It's sometimes the other. I love if he loves Karen, and Karen loves Luch. Do things for each other that goes beyond our own interest, you know, sometimes. And I, this is why I'm rooting for you and. Thank you. I wanted to celebrate both of you. So, [laughter] honestly, I'm, I'm really proud of what we've built. And I think, you know, we often get asked, I know that from like people who tell us like, is it real? Do they really love each other? And honestly, I don't have anything to prove to anyone. And I don't think Luch has anything to prove to anyone. At the end of the day, like you said, we're the ones living with each other behind, you know, the closed doors. And uh, you know, we're not newlyweds. We've been together for 15 years already. And.

And I feel like if you'll interview us 15 years from now, I. My gut is. Yeah. Is we're still going to be the same, you know, because I think we've really. We have our relationship set on the really right foundations. And I think we both are lucky enough to value what we have a lot. In 15 years, we'll be interviewing on us. With his. Question. [laughter] Google. With these questions, you know, why not? I'm, if I had a bet, I would, inshallah, bet on you. Like, I truly think um, you have, I don't want to say crack the code, but whatever ingredients you both have figured out a lot. Inshallah, our kids and the current generation can learn from watching this. Listen, there's no code. That's why I don't want to use the word code. Each relationship is different. But, you know, honesty, honesty, trust, respect. Uh, putting your ego aside, you know, sometimes you have to put your ego aside. Sometimes you have to say sorry. Even when you know you're not the one at fault. And that's selfless. Yeah. And I also think that getting married for the right reasons. And I think both of us were lucky enough to marry for the right reasons. We didn't marry because we had to. We didn't marry because, um, you know, I was trying to escape anything or you were trying to escape anything. You know, we, we both got married because we felt like we were going to add value to each other's lives. Yeah. And you had the same goals. Yeah. Like you said, the dolphins were on the same trajectory. I love that image there. No, it's.

This is two questions that you guys wrote for each other. Okay. Let's start with Luch, since we made you cry a lot. Oh, so I ask him or he asked. Let him ask you first. Okay. It's almost like the same. What is the first thing that you made. That you made you feel like I was the one? I wrote it wrong. Yeah. What is the first thing that made you feel like I was the one for you? Yeah. What is the first thing? Oh, I'm asking. No. This question. What is the first thing that you made? Sorry. What is the first thing that made you feel like I was the one for you? No. Okay. What is the first thing? Asked me and then I said that when when when I felt that I can spend so. Yeah, yeah, true, true. Okay, but I. Okay, but I asked Anna. I wrote this question down. Hey, it's. Uh, for him to ask me. Okay, fine. No, no, no. It's for her to ask. This is the first time we do this, by the way. So it's for her to ask me. So, so since, since no, since I answered it, let me ask you two questions. Okay. What is the first thing that made you feel like I was the one for you? It was that I felt like I was able to combine a best friend and a lover in the same person. And I felt like that's my partner for life. It's a good answer. Right? Like, yes, I think. But this one now means. And he went very serious. I went a bit more friendly and life. I like to have fun. I like to have fun. By the way, I don't know if you noticed, but when I give him a very emotional question, he says it in a jolly way. He reduces the seriousness. I The last one, cuz I don't want to make her cry. I know. It didn't work. What is your favorite nickname you gave me? Yeah, cuz we do have a lot. Oh, really? Okay. [laughter] I like random stuff. Angi. Angi. [laughter] Angi. Angi means angel. Yeah. But it's like a reiteration of angel. Angry. Now she has like a new one for me. She's, she's sticking. But that's like weird. [laughter] That's Angi and is your favorite. Uh, it was the one I think that that phase of when I used to call him Angi was. She used to call me angel a lot and then. Angel, angel, angel, angel. But they was like still in our long-distance days. And I still have a screenshot of a lot of our. Remember, oh my god, every day cuz we were long-distancing. So every day. I would wake up with texts from him and he would wake up with texts from me. And by the way, we we still do that, but now they're shorter. Before it was like proper like love messages that I would wake up to every day and him too. Because in London, it would be like four-hour difference in the winter. So I would sleep before I would sleep. I would send him something that said, by the time he wakes up, he would wake up to messages from me. And then he would write to me. So by the time I wake up, I would have messages from him. And I have some screenshots of these messages and they were so cute. Honestly, like. You know, like you're the best, like stuff like that. And and at that time it was Angi. Yeah. She used to also do a lot of uh like I still have them, by the way. We have like because we we would like travel for short periods of time to see her. We'd go to a lot of restaurants together. That used to be our thing. Restaurant. So she would keep all like the matches. The cards, not the matches, the cards of the restaurant. And she'd create like, let's say, a books. Mi like, you know, Instagram just books. So she'd do hardcover books. And like of memoirs of. Everything, like I have our first like football game. You should have bought it, by the way. It would have been nice to show. Very, very nice. The book that I that we did that I did for him. But it's like all our memories and stuff. It's really. It's and it's all like real, you know, like actual stuff. Uh, scotch tape or. Yeah, like a scrapbook. Scrapbook, you know. That's nice. Well, thank you both. Thank you for having us. So nice to have you both. Um, thank you. I enjoyed it with both of you. I hope I wasn't too difficult. But it was so nice and like you said, I think we're like both um, you know, it was nice. I want to go have dinner with you now. [laughter] It's nice. It's like we're like rekindling our vows here, you know, like. Why not? Why did you love me? Yeah, 100%. Best. I think the questions even you guys both took it so well because I think you kind of live beyond yourselves, like, you know, why I'm asking. So it's not only about what I want this juice, but I know people will watch this, kids will watch, the teenagers, the newlyweds. And I think you took it with that responsibility. So we had good conversations, you know. I hope so. And I mean, I always want the viewers in general to feel like it's some like we added some value to, you know, not that they wasted their time. So I hope you guys enjoyed. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. [music] [music] Heat. Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. [music] [music] Heat. Heat. N. [music] [music] Heat. Heat. N. [music]