Transcription
[music] Leaders have to give, have to have to engage in accountability.
>> Yeah.
>> And course correct the team member.
>> Yeah. So that's always going to involve, um, those days that leaders hate, um, which is like every other day, um, that we hate when I'm leading, uh, because it means I've got to look at someone I love and have a difficult conversation, um, and it's going to be uncomfortable. It's going to be awkward.
>> But it's the only way that this relationship and this process survives. So it's got to happen. And, um, so I've got to sit down with them.
>> And that, you know, the the the thing that we as, unless you're just a jerk, you know, unless you're a bully.
>> Um, you dread making someone feel bad.
>> Right?
>> You know, because by definition, I'm going to make you unhappy for a minute when we have this conversation.
>> Uh, because it's going to sting, no matter. There's no way to couch it. There's no amount of words. There's no way to do that. So what's the, uh, science say about that kind of feedback? The science says that the best leaders, no, I'll start with the worst leaders. The worst leaders are so empathetic they can't do hard things. In other words, I feel your pain and I'm paralyzed by it. And and we have an empathy-based culture. We have an empathy-based public policy system that treats poor people like wards of the state and and and treats them in such a way that that takes their dignity and actually doesn't build them up into the kinds of people that we would want our children to be.
>> And and that that kind of empathy is paralyzing. And that kind of empathy is really deleterious for leadership and management and family life and communities and you name it.
>> But that doesn't mean that feeling somebody's pain is a bad thing. It just means it's part of the process of what we really need, which is compassion. There's never too much compassion. Compassion says it's a harder thing. It requires, you know, good leadership. And by leadership, I mean like parenting.
>> [laughter]
>> Is really a leadership is a leadership lesson. So it sounds like, you know, Dave, you and I are talking about CEOs. And we're talking about dads and moms a lot because that's the ultimate leadership experience that most people have. Starts off by understanding a problem and then by feeling enough of the pain to internalize it and then we go from there to figuring out what needs to be done and then having the courage to do it. Whether the person we're doing it with likes it or not because we do it out of love and not being paralyzed by the empathy. And and by the way, you know, the worst parents of teenagers are the ones that can't do the hard things. The best parents of teenagers say, "Yep, God put me on this planet to be his dad and not to be his friend."
>> And I knew the problem was and I remember when I was that age and I told him the truth and I brought down the hammer and he doesn't like me right now. And I'm really grateful to God that I'm in his life like this because he needs it.
>> Yeah. Otherwise, he's going to run the car in a ditch metaphorically or
>> actually. And that's with your employees and that's with the people in your church. And you know, you must have the love and compassion to do what needs to be done.
>> Yeah. So adults in those situations, you're saying we we love requires us to speak up.
>> It does.
>> Love requires us to do that.
>> Um, the other thing we call love is not really love. It's enabling.
>> And it's just it's just soft.
>> And it because no one is winning when you give a drunk a drink.
>> Absolutely not. And you know, a lot of jerks will often use this and they'll twist it slightly. Jerks will say, "I am giving you the truth out of love." And then what they're doing is using the truth as a weapon and not as a gift. And so they they'll do that a lot. You know, there are people who on television, this is what television political pundits do constantly. This is a big problem in our country today, which is look, I got to be truthful. I'm a Christian man. I got to be truthful all the time. It's not a Christian husband who goes to his wife and points out every single little flaw all the time. On the contrary, but it is a Christian husband or wife who says to the spouse what needs to be said for their good in a spirit of love. That's the kind of truth we're talking about.
>> Yeah. We're just simply not going there.
>> Yeah.
>> [snorts and laughter]
>> And it's just not, you know, and and those are interesting conversations. No, we're just the answer is a solid no and let me walk you through why and we're just not going to do this. And it's it's
>> [laughter]
>> such a
>> How many years you've been married, Nick?
>> Uh, 43.
>> Nice. I've been married 34.
>> Yeah.
>> And I'm still in love. You too, right?
>> Yeah. Absolutely. More more now than ever.
>> I know.
>> I told her if she leaves, I'm going with her.
>> [laughter]
>> Hey honey, you can leave me, but you have to let me come with you. That's
>> right. That's how this is working. So, what let's wrap it up with this idea. What are some simple habits business owners can start doing to create this environment where there's just kind of happiness in the air, so to speak, the culture?
>> It's a cultural icon, if you will.
>> But it's it's a byproduct. It's not a
>> It's uh it's something that occurs because you did other things.
>> Right.
>> Right. No, for sure. And there's a ton of really good business practices that I've written about exhaustively. Every Thursday morning, I have a column in the Atlantic called How to Build a Life. And about every fifth column is about what business people can do to have a happier workplace. And there's a lot of specific techniques, but here's where it starts. If you want people to be happier at work, which you should, by the way, it's even a good business practice. I've got the data that show that the 20% happiest workforces in the S&P 500, they outscore the index by about 500 basis points.
>> Whoa.
>> This is good business, right? And a lot of CEOs are like, "Wouldn't it be lucky?" No, no, no. It's not luck. Here's where it starts. Work on your own happiness. People don't want to work for a miserable sob. They don't want to do it. They don't want to work for a miserable person. And and this applies to everything too. You know, the stupidest kind of parenting I ever hear is starts with this idea. You're never unhapp You're never happier than your unhappiest child.
>> That's really dumb because nobody wants an an unhappy mother.
>> Nobody wants an unhappy dad. You can't help your child by being as unhappy as your child. That's just that raw, weak, flaccid empathy. That is the biggest problem inside families. And so if you want a happier company, start working on your own happiness. And that will become infectious.
>> That's interesting because, you know, we we end up with the world that I'm in and the world you're in where you have a certain level of notoriety that people are coming at you with these negatives.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh and people are coming at you with these positives and you know, sometimes they're 45 seconds apart.
>> I know.
>> You know, it literally is it's crazy. And and they're both extreme.
>> I know.
>> The extreme is like, you know, you changed my life. No, you changed your life. I just showed you how. And the other one is like, you're going to hell. You're the worst cult leader ever.
>> Yeah, I know. I know.
>> It's just this is and they're 45 seconds apart. It's very very interesting. And so you one guy the other day, one of my buddies, he said, um, you know, Dave, h how do you handle all that? All the negativity, all the stuff that comes at you. I'm like, dude, that's just the price of admission to get to be me and I'll pay it. It's a good life. My life is awesome.
>> [laughter]
>> It's awesome. But also, you know, the truth of the matter is that that that fame made Dave Ramsey more Dave Ramsey. And so the real question is who are you integrally as a person? The fact that that this life is a good life and you like it suggests that that was an accelerant to the goodness that you had and that you could have been had you been a roofer. That's a really really good thing that that you're apostulate. Your mission was to bring these ideas to more and more and more people and being a roofer wouldn't have been the highest and best use. But but I think I let me ask you about this because I I I agree with that. I agree. You do become more of what you are with fame, power, money, right? I don't disagree with that. I completely teach that concept to it and I'm glad to know that research actually backs it up because I just pulled it out of my ear. But the um
>> Yeah. Well, your ear's got a lot of
>> Yeah, it's got a lot of stuff in there. But
>> there's a lot of good good knowledge.
>> But the uh uh uh
>> also that was true when I was 33
>> and I'm 65.
>> Yeah. And so I've watched men and women in leadership get better,
>> right,
>> and in their character and grow in [clears throat] that they make better choices, make better uh character decisions. And uh like you said, you you know, you kind of straighten up your life in your early 20s there and and uh so you didn't who you are didn't change, but the you tapping into a much better version of you. So personal growth for these leaders is still necessary even though it's exposing who Ramsey is or who who Arthur Brooks is.
>> And and one of the things that actually really helps us a lot quite frankly to just to be honest about this and this is as from a scientific perspective is having a supernatural perspective on your life.
>> Oh absolutely.
>> If you're answering I mean you're not answering to the you know the the owners of this company. You're not answering to just your audience. You're answering to God.
>> Right.
>> You really are. And so the result of it is that when you have more resources, when you have more notoriety, when you have more persuasive power, then the stakes go up. And that means you need to be better, not worse. And a supernatural perspective on life is critically important. All the people who are your fans and who are gaining financial independence, thank God, and are doing really well in their jobs and are hiring people and their businesses are growing, you need to be better, not worse. Right? The stakes are going up, man. And that's a huge responsibility. By the And and it truly is believing that you want to know the answer when you say, "What would Jesus do?"
>> Yeah.
>> And I really want to know and sometimes it's not a bracelet, you know? I mean, this is a this is a thing. It's the It's a way of it's a worldview. It's a way of life. And you go and in the moment
>> when you want to choke someone or in the moment when you go, you just got to stop and go. And you're right. I think that elevates you out of your lizard brain
>> faster than anything else does.
>> Yeah, that's a technique, believe it or not, in our business called metacognition where you actually have a set of impulses and you reflect on them. You have a technique for reflecting on them. Some people journal, some people go to therapy, some people meditate in eastern techniques, um you and I lift things up in prayer.
>> That's what we that's metacognition that moves the experience of your emotions into the prefrontal cortex of your brain, right behind your forehead, your executive centers. And there you can actually make the decisions that you want to make and be the person that you want to be. That's all.
>> Critical thinking skills exist there. They do not exist deep in the lizard brain and the emotions.
>> The limbic system is not good at making the smart decisions.
>> Keep you out of traffic, but that's about it.
>> Yeah.
>> It'll keep you'll jump out of the way of the of the oncoming car. You're not going to get hit.
>> Yeah.
>> H the happiness files insights on work and life. Arthur Brooks. Uh, we could do this for hours, you and me. We may just keep going out here without a microphone in a minute just because we like hanging out together. He's going to be with us again in May in Orlando, Florida. Thank you, my friend. Appreciate you hanging out.
>> Great to be with you.
>> This is incredible. Be sure and check the book out. Be sure and come to Summit in May and uh consume and see anything. You get the opportunity that this guy's involved in. Obviously, he's stone cold brilliant and uh a solid guy that every one of us love to hang out with and I get that pleasure.