Transcription
Are you frustrated with how much you're charging, or how much people aren't willing to pay? Or would it be nice if people would just pay you 10 times more than what you're getting paid now to either do the same thing or less things?
And I'm so excited to have back on the department, Richmond Den. We are currently in Las Vegas at the Bellagio, and there are like eight beautiful, handsome-looking people in this room, dressed to the nines. And these are your highest-paying clients?
>> They are. Yeah.
>> How much have these clients paid you?
>> Uh, some of them in the room right now have paid me 100 grand.
>> Raise your hand, clients.
>> Raise your hand if you've paid 100 grand to be here. Okay. And then the other group
>> would be at least 30.
>> At least 30. Okay.
>> So, my question is, how do you charge a client $100,000?
Oh, that's going to trigger a lot of people, 'cause the first thing people are thinking, "This guy's a scam. He's a ripoff. He's not, he's not going to overdeliver. He's like, he's like a wolf in crept in, uh, uh, dressed in sheep's clothing or something like that." Right?
Well, this is, and I
>> which I'll say you're not.
>> Thank you. So, like, like
>> and if you think that, you just revealed insecurities about yourself, but that's okay. We're going to break through that right now.
Yeah.
>> I had. So, but I was like that 'cause I had those stories before I charged those. So I understand, like, if you're feeling that way, then it's justified because I, I used to think people who charge that much, there must be some scam, or there must be, they were ripping people off, or whatever it is. Only to realize that you charge for outcomes. That's the, the key difference is when people start focusing on outcomes, that's when you can charge more. But most people don't. They focus on process. They focus on the how. They focus on, "What do I need to do now? What's the steps? What's a, what's the ingredients?" Without knowing the end outcome. And that's what gets people stuck.
>> Yes. Okay. Price on outcome. 'Cause I've been through a journey. I mean, when I first started my coaching program, it was $2,000.
>> Yeah.
>> And now it's $25,000.
>> And as far as time goes, it's the same time. As far as fulfillment goes, it's essentially the same. Uh, I've just realized the same thing. Like, I was helping people at this point. There's actually somebody in this room who's in my inner circle who closed over $100,000 a month contract.
>> Whoa.
>> Yeah. Let's take a place to clap. You can clap. This is the live audience.
>> Let's go. Let's go.
>> Now, now
>> that must be a scam. Must now. Just
>> I mean, yeah. Put all art. Film him. No, I'm just kidding. Put him on the spot.
No, no, but it, it, it, it opens up my eyes because it's like, if Allan paid me $2,000, that'd make no sense.
>> Yeah.
>> But then I also want to unpack the psychological aspect to pricing, uh, the perceived value, and things like that.
>> Totally.
>> But when we say outcome, I do want to bring something that comes to mind to challenge that.
>> Um, what if they don't get the result?
>> What if they don't get the outcome that they paid for?
>> Well, here's the first thing. The re, the number one reason why they may not get the outcome is because the person selling the outcome may not be super clear on what the exact outcome is. So, for example, when you're selling a $100,000 offer, most people miss that one of the outcomes people want is the status associated with it,
>> not the tangible. And so, for example, there's no way you're buying a Ferrari if you don't get to show it off,
>> right?
>> And so, you need to sell the fact that you can show it off. This bright red color, here's what it looks like. Sounds loud. And people want to pay for status. And so sometimes the outcome is status, but people miss that. They think, "Oh, the outcome I'm going to make $100,000," or "I'm going to make $200,000 from this course. I'm going to make a million dollars," or whatever it is. But never, ever forget that people want status, too. And if you're selling outcomes, don't forget that status is an outcome. It's an intangible, but it's an outcome. No one's buying an Hermes bag or a Chanel bag if they didn't want the status associated with it. And if a Chanel bag was $10, no one's going to buy it.
>> Yeah.
>> So that's, that's what I mean.
>> No, that's, that's good 'cause you're bringing up a point that, um, there's so much more than what you get
>> when it comes to pricing. Yeah. Like, and, and I think newer entrepreneurs, which a lot of people that consume this are on, on the beginning of their journey, they think because when you start off, it's so internal. And we, we always project. But if you're in, you know, the way you were raised up, you're going to project something on your pricing. Your pricing is usually a projection of your beliefs and what you know, the value you create. Uh, yeah. So let's just go there. Like, what other things do you sell when you're selling people into coaching, consulting, uh, offers? Like, so you said status is one of them. That's one reason to charge more money
>> is to allow people to experience a higher status.
>> Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that.
>> And there's nothing wrong with that.
>> Nothing wrong with that.
>> Especially if the person you're connecting with is of a higher status.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. There's nothing wrong with wanting high-end stuff and luxury stuff and wanting to pay for it, and you pay for it because it's expensive. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Like, you feel like a different person when you put on a pair of LV shoes or some branded clothes. And sometimes you just wear normal clothes. Like, you just actually feel like a different person. It's your identity.
>> Yep.
>> Hey, we had to pause this podcast and let you know about The Department Live happening in Las Vegas. We're going to be recording the 100th episode of this podcast live here at our headquarters. And if you're seeing this, not that many people know because there's only about 100 or so tickets for sale. And so I want you to come to Las Vegas, come meet me and Art.mpp4. And, uh, we're going to be packing out this space of ours and shooting our 100th episode live. Going to be doing Q&A, going to be doing some like tacos or In-N-Out burgers outside, music, uh, gonna have merch, and so I want you to check out the link in the description, scan the QR code, and I can't wait to meet you, our Department fam, here at The Department headquarters. Hey, so grateful. Can't believe 100 episodes.
>> Let's get back to the combo.
So, that's one of the things is status. What's another
>> um, that's close to that, which is intangible, is identity.
>> So, people buy identity. So, people buy things they think they want to strive to become, or who they look forward to
>> and, or who they believe they are.
>> And so when you're selling outcomes, it's when, back to your original question, "What if they don't get the outcome?" The reason why they haven't got the outcome is maybe you've missed the outcome they actually wanted, and you're not actually selling that. People buy identities, they pay for status, and then everything else is cream.
>> M. You would categorize it or prioritize it in that order? Or
>> I would actually prioritize identity first, then status, and then everything else is cream. If you give those two things to people, they will buy. And the only reason why someone else doesn't buy a $5,000 handbag, if I only buy a $20 one, is because they see themselves as a practical person. "I'm a practical person. Why would I spend $5,000 on a handbag?" Well, now you're selling a $20 one to that person 'cause they're a practical person. So you're selling to their identity.
>> 100.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And in some game, I'll just give it away. This game cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars.
>> Is you use status and identity for the names and the things in your offer.
>> Yes.
>> Like,
>> Yes.
>> "The Million Dollar Coach."
>> Yes.
>> The,
>> whatever, whatever that is, right? Like, yeah. I think, and that's something I've learned.
>> Yeah. Like, 0.1. Like, you know, our mastermind is called 0.1, is being the .1% like that's status.
>> Yeah. That's good. Dang. It's right there. Yeah. My, my inner circle is called the Content Mastery Inner Circle.
>> Exactly. And you're not going to name it like, "The Loser Program," like, you know what I mean? Before, or I, I just called it, uh, what did I call it? The Video Department Inner Circle.
>> That was it. Which, which sold inclusivity, but didn't sell necessarily status because it was just my, my business's name, and then inner circle. So, um, and so it's just a good thing that I've even learned as I've been able to confidently raise my prices.
>> Um, and then that's good. So, you're saying yes, outcome isn't always a final product. Outcome, in many cases, in most cases, is identity and status.
>> Yes. Because people want to feel proud of what they just bought. They want to tell their friends. And if they imagine you bought something, you told your friend, you're like, "Why'd you buy that? That's crap." Like, you don't, you don't want to buy it. You want your friends to say, "Oh my gosh, I want that, too." Like, even if it's a $5 thing, or if you went to a restaurant and it's like, "Oh my gosh, I, I was the first person that bought the iPhone," and they waited two days in line, or "I was the first person at that, like, at that doughnut shop that just opened," or if Chick-fil-A opened in Sydney, which it should.
>> They don't. They haven't.
>> No.
>> Wow. I'm going to be the first person there 'cause I'm going to get status associated with it to say, "I'm the first person." And I'll wait three days for it. And, but that's not a $100,000 thing. That's $5 or $10 'cause people just want to feel proud of what they're buying. That's the status part. Whether it's $5 or $100,000. So, Chick-fil-A, are you sponsoring this? You should.
>> Yeah. No, that's amazing. Yeah. And so
>> that's good. Now, now
>> let's just keep it at the $100,000 conversation. Yeah.
>> People would imagine, are you giving them a rib, maybe a finger? Are they, do they have your phone number and they can, they call you at any time of the night? Are, are you giving your life away? And this is, is this a one-time buy, or they have to pay again if they want to stay in? Like, these are, I know these are a lot of things that people are struggling with.
>> Well, I've got two stories for that, and I think this will really help anyone watching that's wanting to charge super high ticket without having to sell their soul. Because the story I had in my mind was, if I sold a $100k offer, which does not include any one-on-one coaching, by the way, I, like, I would have to give all my time away, my soul, my phone number, my kids. I can't, like, if they called me in the middle of the night, I had to pick up. Like, I had, I had those stories, like, "If someone's paying you 100 grand, you should do that." That's not the case. And like, two stories for this. Like, you know, I don't know if you heard this before, like the dentist story. So, if someone's going to the dentist, like, this guy had a big toothache, and he was like, "Oh, maybe I should see a dentist." But it got worse and worse to the point where he couldn't sleep.
>> And then he couldn't eat. And then he couldn't work. And then he couldn't function. And finally, he booked himself in for emergency dental surgery and got into the clinic and said, "Hey, my teeth is aching. I can't sleep. I can't eat. I can't work." And the dentist fit him in and did a couple of things. Two minutes later, said, "I'm all done." Walks out. I was like, "Wow, you're a genius." Sends in the bill. It's $1,500. And the guy says, "$1,500 for 2 minutes? You're a ripoff." And the dentist says, "Okay, let's come back in the chair. I'll take 4 hours." People don't want more time. They want the outcome. They just think more time is more value. No, you could take all the time in the world, but it's like, if you can do it faster, better, then they will pay for it. So, that's number one.
>> That's good.
>> But the second other story is this. Like, I mean, if you could get the result faster with less time, would you? For sure. Like, why would you want to spend an hour on a one-on-one coaching call with someone when they can just tell you in two minutes?
>> Like, that's, that's, that's the key. Like, it's like, "Oh, they don't give you an hour of time, but I got the outcome in two minutes."
When you do that, when you don't trade time for money, you also train your clients to think outcome-based. And so, it's like, "I don't want to book in an hour call just to get if you can give me the answer on WhatsApp, give me the answer on WhatsApp." And so, another, another thing, like, this is a true story. So, in my old home, we had, um, I don't know about you, but when the lights go out, I don't change the lights unless multiple lights go out 'cause I'm not going to get the ladder out. And you know what I mean? Like, like, for example, in this hotel, one of the lights busted, that, that will probably change it. But for me,
>> six of these have to bust before I go out and change. I'm going to change all six of them in one go.
So, we had this, um, dining room which, it was lit by two lights, and one of them, um, busted. And I'm like, "No, I'm not going to change it." So, it's, it's only one light. But funnily enough, a month later, the other one busted, and now both lights were gone in our dining room. And it was, it happened at a time where I was so busy, I was traveling a lot, running events, and it wasn't a priority for me to change it. And so, for a whole month, we ate with the neighboring, um, room light on to light that room. And it was like candle-light dinner every night. So, until the point where Penny got so frustrated, he's like, "When are you gonna change the light? When are you gonna change the light? When are you going to change the light?" Like, "Fine, I'll go change the light." And so I went to Bunnings, which is a big department store, to find the light bulbs. Actually, I went to my, I went to my shed to find a light bulb. Um, and I found the light bulb, which was a couple of years old. I didn't know if it was working or not. I put it in the light fixtures, turned it on, it didn't work. Like, "Okay, it must be faulty light bulbs." So, I went to the big department store, and you know when you go to these things to find a light bulb, there's a thousand choices. Like,
>> On the note of office side topic, if you got a thousand offers, you will lose. You should only have one offer because you'll overwhelm your clients. People like, "I got three, four, five offers. I got gold, platinum, silver, ruby, diamond."
>> The clients are not going to pick. And you go to a big department store, there's a thousand light globes. I, I was overwhelmed, and I hated it. And I was so busy. I finally got the globes, the right globes. I went home, I put it in, I turned on the light, and it didn't work. And I'm like, "Okay, so something must be wrong with the, like, electric circuit stuff." And I'm not an electrician, so I called an electrician. And I said, "I need you to come over and help out." But he was really ethical. And he said, "Send me a picture of the globe, of the light thing you bought, and also the, um, the fixture." And so I sent him all the photos, and he said, "Oh, that's the one with a dimmer." And I said, "Yeah, it's got a dimmer." "Well, the globes you bought are not dimmable." I'm like, "Here we So, I went from just from a photo because the reason why he asked me that was because he said, "If I come over to try to fix your problem, I'm going to have to charge you $140 as a call-out fee regardless of whether I do any work or not."
>> And so, I don't want to come out there to realize that you bought the wrong globes, and you're going to have to pay me $140. So, I thought, "Okay." So, that's why he wanted to know to see if he could fix the problem before.
>> Shout out to Shout out to Homie.
>> Yeah. Like, ethical, legit.
>> So, I went back to Bunnings to find a dimmable globe, and there's a thousand choices. And then, and I finally find one. I come back, and then I put the globe back in. Still didn't work. Messaged my electrician. "The ones I got didn't work." And he's like, "Okay, you did get the right ones." So he came the next day to see what the problem was. And I kid you not, he looked up, he did a few things. I left him to it. Two minutes later, he said, "I'm all done." And this is legit, two minutes. And, and I'm like, "What did you do?" He said, "Well, I don't mean to make you sound like an idiot, but those globes that you got, like, it's a really finicky globe thing where you just had to turn it an extra quarter inch." Like, I thought I had it tight, but it had to be super tight.
>> And so, from that one quarter inch turn, he solved the problem. And I had to pay $140, but I was happy to do it because there's no way I was going to be able to YouTube that. There's no way I was going to solve it on my own and would have had dark light for the next months and months and months on end. But that's the power of a quarter inch turn.
>> And I paid him for the outcome, not for the time.
>> And I was more than happy to do that. And so that's a clear example of just charge for the outcome.
>> Like, I, I don't want him to spend three hours trying to fix my light.
>> He did it in two minutes for the same price. I'm happy with that. Let's do it. In fact, I probably should pay him more 'cause it's out of my way.
>> So good.
>> Yeah.
>> Hey, Department fam. Question for you. Based on you listening to this podcast, you probably are either looking to grow your personal brand this year, build your audience online, and just stop chasing business and start to have business chasing you. If that's you, I want to invite you to the Content to Cash Challenge. This is a five-day coaching experience, a live coaching experience with myself that's done all on Zoom, and you get access to a private community, and it really is unlike any other experience that I offer. By the end of the challenge, you'll have unreal clarity on what you're supposed to do online, and you'll have the insight on how you can make an extra six or even seven figures. Yes, I said seven figures in your business this year. And if any of those things sound great to you, I want you to join the next Content to Cash Challenge. Scan the QR code if you're watching on a television or click the link in the description. Once you go through it, go ahead and upgrade to VIP 'cause you'll get an extra hour of bonus VIP Q&A with me every single day of the challenge. And so looking forward to seeing you there. Let's get back into the combo.
Yeah, I mean, my, I literally, the thing that comes to mind is, um, when I, when I first joined Myron's program in '23, I struggled with that. I struggled with, "Well, if I charge more, that means I have to include more. If I charge more, that means I have to make it longer." And, and then he, he just presented me a hypothetical situation. He's like, "Omar, I'm gonna ask you a couple questions." He was like, "I have this program that will teach you how to make $10 million. Are you interested?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "The, the first route you can go is $20,000. It comes with 100 videos, 100 audio files, and 100 download PDF workbook." It's like, it's pretty sweet.
>> Yep. Sounds good.
He's like, "I have another path, and it's one piece of paper, one audio file, and one video. It'll teach you how to make $10 million." That one's $40,000. Which one do you want?
>> I want the $40,000 one.
>> Why?
>> I don't want to spend hours.
>> So, that, and that in that moment, it broke.
>> Yeah.
>> It literally, it broke in, in that moment. Now, we, we all go through the process of, of transformation to be able to charge because anyone watching or listening to this could literally charge a $100,000 for something right now.
>> Agree.
>> But your voice would probably quiver.
>> Yes.
>> And you'd probably wonder because you're still going through a process, maybe. Um, but like, what was that like for you, like, when, when you first started charging for coaching and consulting? What was the price? Do you have like a story in that? And then how you started to see, like, "Oh, this is way more valuable. I need to charge more." What was like, what were those belief breakers for you?
>> Yeah. Well, first of all, if you're watching this and you're waiting for belief, you're going to be waiting a very long time.
>> Belief always comes from someone else first. Always. Always. And so borrow other people's belief that you can do it. So if you're around the right people, and they see something that you don't see, and they believe in you first, just borrow that. If you're trying to get the belief first, it's not going to happen. That's why you are who you spend time with. The only reason why I could sell a $100,000 offer is 'cause Myron saw something in me that I couldn't see in myself. And I'm like, "Well, I don't think he's trying to scare me. I don't think he's trying to give me a false impression that I'm better than I really am. I think he actually sees that in me. Why would he try to give me a false sense of ego? That would be weird." And I thought, "Well, if he sees it, then, and I don't see it yet, I'll probably just try to just give it a go and see if it works." And then the belief came afterwards. But if I had tried to meditate on it and do the whole incantations and kumbayan all kind of stuff, it would have never come.
>> And so the starting point is, if you're around the right people, and they see it in you and they believe it in you, then just borrow that first.
>> Yeah, that's, that's actually a biblical thing. I find in Mark, Mark chapter 2,
>> uh, verse one, I think it's Jesus's first sermon. He's preaching in home. I think it's his home. And then there are these four friends, uh, who have a friend that's paralyzed, and they break the ceiling of the wall or the ceiling, bring their friend down in front of Jesus. And then it's a very powerful portion of scripture where it says, "And then Jesus looked at the faith of his friends and healed the man."
>> Wow. Borrowed faith, borrowed belief. That's what's up.
>> Wow. Wow.
>> You can steal that one if you want to. Yeah. Um,
>> I'm writing that one down. Yeah. Yeah. So, so when you first got into it, what was your pricing? And and and then, yeah, like,
>> and who do, who do you want to help? And things like that.
>> Yeah. Well, I, I knew I was confident in my ability to help someone make a million dollars through a $100,000 offer. That's number one. I just didn't know what it would look like logistically or how.
>> Um, but
>> I mean, are you talking about the $100k offer?
>> Yeah.
>> No, I'm talking, like, go back to young Rich.
>> Oh, young, young Rich. Yeah. Well,
>> you got to charge what you're confident in charging. Number one. Like, that's, that's, that's the first thing. If, if it makes you want to vomit, then just take a step back a little bit. Just a little bit. Um, although, I mean, you know, there's arguments to that.
>> Yeah. People say, "Just say it, whatever makes you nervous, times it by five, and then say that number, and then see what happens."
>> Exactly.
>> But I feel like that route, but from my, my perspective, because I know what you're talking about,
>> is it's like, "Oh, it worked." I, I do feel like that can get you in a scammy system.
>> Yes. That's correct. That's correct. But, but if, if you are confident because you know the value and you see the value, I, I like to call it conviction. Conict, conviction-based pricing.
>> But, yeah, early on in your journey, what would you?
>> Yeah, yeah. So, my early, my journey was conviction-based pricing, and I got that from my mentor. It's like, "What, what do you, here's a, here's a key question: What do you secretly believe it's worth?" 'Cause what you secretly believe it was, maybe not someone you will say with conviction, but you see, "I secretly think it's worth $5,000, but if I say $5,000, I feel like I'm going to choke and vomit. I'm going to scam." Okay. So, you secretly think it's worth $5,000. That's good. That's, that's a starting point. That's the goal to move towards. Okay. What would you be confident in saying out loud without choking? Probably $3,000. Okay. Start there. Just start there. And that's okay. You should feel like they are getting the best deal of their life. And you should feel like,
>> "This is so cheap. They're getting a bargain," and that's why they should buy it. Like, if you're not feeling that, then, then, then, then you're not charging the right way that is congruent to you. You should never be feeling like, "Hey, I think I'm ripping them off." You should be feeling like, "I think they're ripping me off."
>> 100.
>> That's a great place to start.
>> It actually, you, in your book, you say, "Don't charge more than you're worth. Charge way less than you're worth."
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. And I love that because that's not what we're always told. You.
>> Yeah. Whole misconception. "Charge your worth. Charge your worth. More than that. Charge more." No, because you'll be charging your worth. You're trading a one-to-one outcome, like, one-to-one value. You should be charging, you're giving 10x the value of what you're charging. So, by default, you're always charging less than you're worth.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, always by default. And that's, you always should feel like, "I am getting ripped off in this deal." And I love that because they're winning.
>> And that's, that's the key. Like, if they win, then you win. But if you're ripping them off, then it's not going to work,
>> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, like, so then you started off at the price point of
>> Yeah. $3,000. When I started. $3,000.
>> Yeah. And I say that because that may be seem really high to a lot of people because I see a lot of people starting out and they're like, they choke on $500, they choke on $1,000. And I started on $3,000. And I wondered why I started on $3,000. It was because who I was spending time with.
>> So, I was, I started out as an optometrist. I had no friends in the coaching space. And I didn't know what people were charging. It's just the first coaching program I had bought was a $25,000 mastermind, and he just said, "Charge $3,000," and everyone in that community was charging $3,000. The funny thing is, everyone in that community was always doing paid in full. There was no such thing as a payment plan. So, all my clients when I started out was $3,000 paid in full. There was no other option. I didn't have any other awareness of any other pricing.
>> And so, I didn't have a living belief on $1,000 because I just thought $3,000 is normal. And so that's why I charged $3,000 'cause it was normal around my peer group. And that's, that, I know that's another topic altogether, but for me, I didn't know anything else. But now people do, so it gets in their head sometimes. Too much information
>> is not good.
>> Right? No, I mean, I actually think it's always bad.
>> 'Cause it overwhelms, and then it, it paralyzes, and then, yeah, you overthink because you're overwhelmed, and then you don't take action. So, for example, if you knew how what it took to be to create a successful podcast before you started, on what you know today,
>> you, you might not even start.
>> No, I, I think what's the, the thing is is
>> because people are so close and familiar with the thing they're good at,
>> they also feel like it's hard to charge a lot.
>> Yeah. Easy for them.
>> Because it's easy for me. Well, like, because it's easy for me is why I should, it may, I'll do it. Like, back to the time. It goes back to the time thing. "Well, it'll only take me two seconds. Just, just give me a couple hundred bucks. You just give me a thousand bucks."
>> Yeah, but
>> I'm guilty of that, too. 100.
>> Yeah.
>> I just shared with him a crazy magic trick that I, I don't know. How much do you think I could have charged for the magic trick that I shared with you today? Just, what do you think? Like, a million dollars? $100,000?
>> Are you, are you saying like a real magic trick, or you mean like a magic trick in, like,
>> metaphorically?
>> Metaphorically,
>> but it's a magic trick as in like, if you knew this, this would change your life. And
>> I, I don't think I could charge $100,000 for it, but I, because to me, it's easy. But they're saying it was like priceless, right? Like, I mean, um,
>> what was it?
>> Are we going to reveal the magic trick now, mate?
>> We'll just say it, and then we'll decide.
>> Yeah, the hund, the $100,000.
>> Yeah, the $100,000 magic trick. I think it's worth the trick that I share with you. Like, legit, legit, legit. Like, no, I believe it's pricey.
>> Let me, actually, I actually have a point to make that might persuade you to want to share it.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> So, personally, I genuinely don't have a filter on this podcast.
>> Yeah.
>> Like, I don't gatekeep.
>> Yeah. I actually leverage the limitation of the medium and the context of who's consuming it to be the in control of that.
>> Yeah.
>> Now, if you don't pay for this information,
>> you're not going to hear it the same way than if you did.
>> That's correct. And all of them did.
>> Yes. And so when I came in the room, and you guys were sharing the biggest takeaways, I was like, "Hey, just let me know one at a time, what's your biggest takeaway?" I, I will say your takeaways aren't revolutionary. And you guys would agree. You guys are nodding. Okay. So, then what the heck did you pay for if it's not like,
>> they could go on YouTube? They watch your channel.
>> They can go on YouTube. Like, literally, can we all agree that it's the information is out there?
>> Yeah.
>> So, so
>> all right. Fine.
>> So, what I'm saying is,
>> we're going to tell you that people paid $100,000 to hear this nugget. It is up to you to value whatever he's gonna say. And if you don't value it, then sucks.
>> Yep. Right. All right. So, this is how this is how you win over a room. Okay. Because proximity is power. And we all know that who you spend time with is who you become. How do you network up a social? So, I'll share a quick story. I want to leave an open loop for them to watch.
>> Slow down, dude. You're Russell Bruning. Russell Brun.
>> All right. I'll slow down. Okay. So, so I'll give, I'll paint the context.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, I really believe who you spend time with is everything. So much so that I had an opportunity to ask Grant Cardone one question.
>> I was touring with him around Australia, who's running this event thing, and I was like, kind of shadowing the event as a sponsor, and, uh, and I had an opportunity to ask him a question. And one question you can ask Grant Cardone, what are you gonna ask him? So, I was thinking about it the whole time he was talking about proximity. "You are who you spend time with." And the only way to do that to increase your peer group is to pay to play. Like, he kept on saying, "You gotta pay to play." Like, if you want to improve your friends, just pay to play. That's why golf country clubs are so expensive because you're not buying a membership, you're buying the proximity to the people at their club. And so paying to play, we all know works. You're just paying yourself. You're paying to get friends. And that's good. So I asked Grant, the question I asked him was, "Hey Grant, like, I've been touring with you the last three weeks. You kept on talking about pay to play to network up the social ladder, but there must be a way to network up the social ladder without having to pay to play. What is that way, Grant? How do you do it for free?" And you know what he told me? I'll tell you at the end of this podcast.
>> Okay.
>> It was crazy. But that's the context of what I'm about to share with the magic trick. Now, um,
>> Was that the magic trick?
>> No, no, that's not the magic trick. That's not the magic trick. So, for example, we're going out to dinner tonight. And you can apply this philosophy to any situation, right? And we're going to go out to dinner tonight. And let's just say dinner tonight, let's just call it, let's just say it's gonna cost $5,000, for example, like $500 bucks a person, fancy restaurant, they're $5,000. Now, generally on that kind of dinner, you'd tip $1,000, like 20%. Is that normal for?
>> And you, and if you had a bad experience, you probably still tip somewhere close to that, or maybe 10, 15%. But you're still tipping.
>> Still tipping.
>> True. Like, you're always gonna tip. Even if it wasn't the best experience, you just don't go back, but you're still tipping. What if you tip first? M.
>> I call it the pre-tip. So tonight, whoever's looking after us, I'm gonna give them $500, and I'm gonna say to them, "Hey, look, I tend to get carried away the night. We have so much fun. I'll have a few drinks, and I always forget to tip, and I know you're gonna look after us, so I'm just gonna tip you first." You know what it does to someone? They now feel obligated to overdeliver. And you will have the best night ever. And everything that comes to you will be the best service. And if you're with friends, and your friends like, "Wow, why are we getting such great attention?" Richmond, do you know the owner? No. First time here. First time here. And 'cause I'm gonna tip them anyway, but if I tip first, they're gonna overdeliver. Because when you give someone gratitude before they've earned it, they will try to earn it 10 times more to get it back. And that pre-tip principle has changed the whole game of how I treat people, of how you build friendships, of how you have great experiences at restaurants or at bars or whatever the thing is, because you're gonna do it anyway. And there's only been one situation where I didn't get like awesome service. It was just average or not below, like below average. But it didn't matter 'cause I would have had to tip him anyway 'cause I was gonna do it anyway. But nine times out of 10, when you pre-tip, you get a 10 times better experience. And I can't tell you how many times where the tip is actually less than what you would have actually tipped because you did it first. And they'll come with you with a check and say, "Tonight, they're gonna come with a check, and there'll be the total bill. Let's just call it $5,000." And yet there's a tip section. They will actually cross it out and say, "I got you. Don't worry about that."
>> They don't want you to give. They don't want anymore.
>> Yeah. And the pre-tip will change how you interact socially, but it also, you can do that from a friendship level. You can do that from any, any context.
>> That's really good. Yeah. I mean, I see that from like the pr, what's the principle in that? Would you say that's the law of reciprocity?
>> Yes. At, at its highest, but you give it to, yeah.
>> But like, you could build a brand where you're pre-tipping people in your world.
>> Your content is pre-tipping.
>> Exactly. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. But legit though, like, it's legit, like, it's legit, like a legit pre-tip. It's not like to manipulate the situation 'cause I have forgotten. And this is how I came up with it because I do get carried away, you know, and I do have a few drinks and, and next minute I'm like, "Damn it, I forgot to tip them 'cause I like to tip cash."
>> Yeah.
>> And I really legit forget to tip. And then I'm like, "Did someone tip?" And I feel so bad. So I started tipping first, and it became like the most genius thing ever.
>> That's really good.
>> So I don't forget, and that, and I did, so I didn't do it to manipulate the situation. I did it because I actually forgot a lot of times.
>> No, that's really good. Dude, that's fire. Come on.
>> Let's go.
>> Dude. I have, I have one.
>> Yeah.
>> You ready for it?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Go to Starbucks. Get an iced shot of espresso. They put the 2% milk on the counter. Just fill up the rest of the cup. You have a latte. That's my magic trick.
>> I don't do that, dude. I bring my own milk. I'm just, yeah. No, that, that's so random. I'm just, I don't know why that was a magic trick. By the way, my first job, I spent all my money on magic tricks.
>> Dude, I wanted to be a magician.
>> Yeah. Penguinmagic.com. I had a dude, they were selling video trainings. It was a ver, it was digital products in 2006, five. Sorry if I made people feel old. Sorry. Uh, I had a self-tying shoelace, and it would just un Okay, never mind. All right, let's keep it going though. Okay, so was there ever a time where you were pumped up and then you gave your offer and no one bought?
>> Yeah, that haunts me, but it was a blessing 'cause it made, it was a slap in the ego. So, back then, like, before COVID happened, most things were done in person. It was a very in-person kind of business model. Do an in-person event, get 20, 30, 40, 50 people in a room, give some value, and then sell something at the end.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh, now everything's virtual, which is awesome. Uh, so I remember doing an event at an RSL club, and I had 80 people that came. And in hindsight, I'm thinking, "Wow, that's pretty cool." I had 80 people in the room in an in-person event that had to drive there, and, uh, and I pitched on stage. It was a ridiculously awesome offer that I sold. It was $1,500, super cheap. It was half what I was normally offering, the $3,000 special price, thinking everyone's gonna stand up and run to the back, and not one person ran to the back, and it was embarrassing. It was deflating, and I just wanted to crawl on my bed and go home because, you know, that was like, that was my income for the month.
>> I wasn't running in-person events every day. It was like earning one once a month, and then you got to go home and
>> tell your wife, "How did you do?" Yeah, "I made a difference tonight."
>> "Made a difference."
>> Yeah. "I helped some people." Yeah.
>> Dang, dude. Art, do you remember that trip to San Diego? It was February of '23, and I just launched my $2,000 program, and I closed it at at midnight of December 31st, and then I'm like, "Well, I'm speaking here, I can open it up, and maybe this time I'll charge like three grand." And I did a, what I thought was a great talk.
>> I was invited to this real estate event to speak, and there was hundreds of people in the room, and like, nobody moved. Like, no, like, and it was a, like, QR code situation. I was like, "S.K., you guys get to scan the QR code."
>> Yeah.
>> And it was just like, I was like, "All right,
>> peace." Yeah. Didn't make a single sale.
>> Um, looking back now, why, why would you say at that moment no one said yes?
>> 'Cause I thought I knew. See, I thought I knew what they wanted, but it was what I wanted. M.
>> See, that's the difference.
>> Bro. Literally, that's like everyone's stage one.
>> Yeah.
>> Go ahead.
>> Yeah. Like, sounded good to me, but I just didn't do my market research. Number one, it's, it's, you got to understand your ideal client, and it goes back to the very first thing we talk about about status. If you, if you know that your clients want status, and you're not giving it to them, then they're gonna go somewhere else to find it. Some, some people, not not everyone wants status. Some people want community. Some people want certainty. Some people want mentorship. Some people just want to vent.
>> And so we have an emotional coach in our program. And people say, "Why?" Because people just want to vent. And so it's like, "Wow." And they say, "That was the best call I've ever had." Now, we will never understand that. Like,
>> "Just talk." That's why I don't do one-on-one coaching. It turns into therapy.
>> I'm like,
>> "It does. It does. Just delegate it to someone else." Like, like Jenny. Jenny. Yeah. It's like, "Well, you pay me $30,000 to vent, but you know what? Because they don't have anyone else in their life to." Yeah. But that's value for them. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. No, that's really good. I just got done speaking at another person's mastermind before this,
>> and one question he asked me before I left, um, was, you know, we came up with stuff today. They were, he, they were working on like signature talks, and a lot of the people were, when they came up with like a very sexy name, they were like, "I can't be the one who's who says that." And he's like, "What would you say to them?" Because they're, they don't feel like they can use these words confidently. They don't feel like they could title their offer or their thing with status and identity. And I, and honestly, it was, it's that you're so worried about you.
>> And, and honestly, imposter syndrome is another, it's just simply a another word for insecurity.
>> Yep.
>> A lack of confidence in who you are, but also insecurity is an an obsession of self.
>> Yeah.
>> Boom. Now, to
>> and, and when you start to obsess over customers, clients, prospects, problems more than they do,
>> then they'll be happy to pay you whatever you charge.
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. You hit the nail on the head. And if you've ever felt imposter, then unfortunately, you're just being selfish.
>> Mhm. Which is why I think most people who would say, "Yeah, man, I'm working, I've been I've been thinking about launching. Yeah, I'm working on my offer." You've lost already. Because you're trying to get it to a place where you feel like it's good for you.
>> Yeah.
>> No, let people decide.
>> Sell it before it's ready, and let people know that you're going to be a part of architecting this offer with them. It's gonna be way more once we dial this in.
>> And then you get
To build it with with them. It becomes better. They get better served. It's a crazy experience. And now you have this bulletproof, you know, iteration.
Yeah. Um, which is something that just broke off me because everyone's in their dungeon or proverbial basement working on the thing they want to sell, and then they come out and they're like, "Man, this looks good to me." I love that you said that. This seems this looks good to me.
No, it has to seem and it has to look good to them.
Yes.
Yes. On that note, do you want to um do you want to hear what Grant Cardone said?
Yeah, I do.
Yeah. And this this in relation to what you're talking about right now.
He said, "Well, that's easy. Everybody needs something. Whether you're Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Elon Musk, or whoever you are, or the bum on the street, everybody needs something. Your job is to find out what they want, go get it, and go give it to them." And I'm like, wow. That's the whole key to success, finding out what people want, go get it, go give it to them.
So good.
Yeah.
Cool, bro. In a moment. Art, if you could film, I would like you guys down to ask some questions. You have any questions? Just say yes for the sake of the podcast. Come on. But so, so Art Art's just going to hit record on a wireless mic. Just hit record and record on board. Scratch audio. We'll clap.
Um, I will say when I that that talk I gave where nobody took the next step.
Um, yeah, I I just I didn't give too much away. I overtaught.
And I think sometimes when I because I teach this I teach this with people like, "Hey, you're teaching too much." What? You're telling me to hold back? No, I'm telling you the goal is to get people to feel like this is easy. The goal is to get people to believe that you're the right person. And when you communicate from a place of within, which usually ends up in tactics and and nuances and specificities, you're not shifting belief. you're not speaking to get people to think and feel different about the thing you're teaching, they don't take they don't take action.
But people who are really good, you got to just keep teaching and realize like, "Oh, I know what that means." Because you'll say something and people will write it down, but they're still processing what you just said while you continue talking and you continue giving tactics and and they're like, "My brain's fried."
You know, that that's that's what I didn't do. Yeah. So like that all I did was like do exactly this everybody. But what that the this I was telling them to do in that room was very technical, which that's why it didn't serve it. It doesn't serve them. Some people like you know, you feel like you should tell them everything and tell them how hard it really is, but it doesn't really serve them, cuz then they won't do it.
Bro, oh my gosh. One of my pet peeves is when I pay somebody and they tell me this was difficult. Like I I got the frame TV in one of our rooms, hired a handyman, hang the TV. I want I want one hole in my wall. And bro just didn't put it in the right place. And I was like, dude, it's too high. He's like, "Man, these these are just harder to hang." Bro, I I'm paying you because it's supposed to be easier for you than it is for me. But anytime in any context, every time cuz And I think sometimes people try to guard that.
Yeah.
Like they'll like, "Oh, yeah. No, no, dude. You just tell me like what are you doing when you run those Facebook ads?" "Oh, dude, it's it's a it's a complicated process, man." I'm like, "Ew, is it complicated to you?" like or can you just tell me what you're doing real quick so I have a better understanding you know anyway that's just a me ranting I totally get it it's like dude, I want you like because so much of what we're talking about the you know the undertone and everything we're talking about is so much of this is solved when you also become a better buyer, when you start to buy with value in mind and you buy quality, and and you and you you realize that when you usually buy the most expensive ensive version of something, it usually results in a better outcome.
Yep.
And I have a crazy story about this. My friend Neil, he uh bought an Aston Martin, like the SUV, the DBX I think it is. If I'm not mistaken, he bought it in December. It was about $300,000. Um, unfortunately, this summer when they were out of town, his house got robbed and they, you know, everything. think about wife's purses, watches and stuff, and the car. So, he tells me this like detective dude comes, little junior detective. He's like, "Hey, sir. So, uh, so tell me what happened." He's like, "Who are you?" Uh, he's like, "Bro, $500,000 worth of goods just got stole stolen from my house." Dude, they called in CSI. Why? because of the price point of what was taken. So it almost served him better because he had a lot taken from him because he had exp uh I like the word expensive but yeah expensive stuff.
So it exceeded the amount. And the crazy thing about this story because I've just been he's been processing it with me. He was he said that's the only reason why they turned it into a crime scene. It's the only reason why they cared. And because he bought a car with great tech, dude, they got they used AI and all the GPS points and they tracked down the person.
So good.
And he's been stealing stuff forever.
Wow.
Because of the guy who was willing like I just you just think about this, you know, and this is just a it it's a principle I' I'm learning is Yeah. It's and it's motive is number one. We don't we don't we don't buy expensive things. We don't buy nice things. We don't join the country club if our motives are off.
But so much of this conversation too undertones is service. When you find out what people want, go get what they want and then you bring it to them. That's called service.
You know, and um, and yeah, it's just that's that's been a big huge unlock for me, understanding how to charge more. It's like when you can't fathom it, it's because you're you always want a deal. You always want a discount. So, how can you expect to charge somebody without giving a discount? Without giving a deal and it being um higher in the market, but the crazy thing is you because of the prices you charge, you're not in competition anymore.
Yeah.
You're not a commodity. You're on your own category.
Yeah. And it's a beautiful thing to build that way because there's peace. You get to decide. You get to choose what you're doing. Um, and and it's really it's just really cool. Sorry, I'm just going on.
Well, to your point, more expensive things as a general rule almost always last longer and you will always be further ahead. And I'll give you an example. Like you could buy a cheap dining table for $200 or you could buy a marble one for $1,000. The $200 one you're going to have to replace every single year for the rest of your life.
And so at some point you're spending more. The marble one will last you forever and it's better. It's durable. It looks nicer. You get all the benefits of the classiness of it and not breaking and the inconvenience of having to replace it. And so people don't understand that more expensive things even though they're expensive now, they actually last longer. And so you actually save money in the long term.
Right? And so if you're afraid of spending more and it is scary like I mean not saying like I mean got to drop $100,000 on I mean you should feel nervous dropping $100,000 on an offer or a car or something like that. But also know that it's going to give you a better ROI because more exp more more expensive things always almost always last longer.
Yeah. It's so good. Yeah. I I actually learned that principle with clothing.
Yes. Yes. When the fast fashion wave came out and they were studying uh now cotton in the US is like genetically modified and so H&M and uh Top Man and all these things they're they're kicking out a ton of um looks whereas the high-end stores like the stores downstairs four times a year they swap it out, but they spend way more time on these pieces. And then what happens is when you buy a t-shirt from H&M, it changes shape with one wash.
Uh, and then you buy a organic cotton potentially made in the USA or wherever you're from. But like, it gets better with time. Like the your oil your body oils and and the way dude it's crazy. That's why me I mean I love like vintage Levi 501 denim made in the US or Mexico. They just it's they don't make them like that anymore.
You got to get a response to this video.
I know, right? And then the last thing I'll say about value uh is lobster and steak. Lobster has zero value. It's like a bottom feeder, but it's the same price as steak. And steak's like a cow that eats grass.
That's so random. That has nothing to do with anything. But when I I judge when people I'm at a table, it's like, you don't like lobster? It's not even that I like. There's no value in it. The lobster just crawled forever. the And I know we're gonna go eat at a steakhouse and people are gonna get lobster and shrimp, but it's just that's I'm just projecting. Yeah, let's do some questions if you got some questions about pricing.
Um, yeah, no, I mean, it'd be really cool. Or Oh gosh, I'm so sorry. My ring just fell off cuz I lost 30 pounds in two and a half months.
Damn.
But you're getting swole. I'm getting skinny, bro.
Yeah, I put on trying. I was training with Andy Elliot, you know.
Dude, that's cool. Um, yeah, question over here and uh, awesome. So my question is my secret thought of how I want to charge for my coaching that the amount is, you know, it's there and to actually say and I know the value, I know it's worth it, I know it's um I given more value than what it should be on the other side, I'm kind of stuck with the thought of am I being arrogant if I charge that much compared to what most people are charging, you know, this other amount.
Yeah.
So, how do I, dang, understand or change that thought process?
That's a great question.
It's a great question. You're focused on the wrong person. Like, no one who thinks you're arrogant is going to buy. So, whoever you think thinks is that, they're going to think that thought of you. Who the heck are they thinking that they're not your customer? Because they think you're arrogant. So rather than focusing on the on the people or persons that would think you're arrogant for charging that price, focus on the people that are glad that somebody is doing it a different way, that looks like them, that talks the way you talk, that has your experience, like all those things. It it it's a funny thing that we naturally tend to do because we're uh we're hardolics or or we naturally bent into negativity, but we will we will focus on the few that aren't going to buy versus the many who will buy and just need to be have a question answered and they're being like, "Oh, I'll buy. I wasn't going to, but now I will." So,
Okay.
Is that helpful? And to add to that, your pricing should be designed to deter the people you don't want. And by default, it'll attract the people you want. And so, it's not about arrogance or not. It's about strategically saying, "I don't want these customers. That's why I'm charging twice as much." Or maybe you don't like pompous people and you're going to charge cheap cuz you don't like those. You know what I mean? So, so think about it that way. Like it should be a deterrent for the people you don't want in your world. As as Marin says, the reason why I charge 350,000 or a million,
375.
375 now. Yeah. Cuz I just don't want headache, right? He just doesn't want headache clients. And um, not to say that you should charge that much, but it's that his whole structure is based on who who don't I want to buy this. And that's the game. It's for whoever doesn't want to buy it. I have this offer, so people don't buy it.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And the ones that do want it, well, that's the one I want to buy. So,
That's really good.
Okay. So, the the few that might be voicing it out in a negative way, it's like, no, no, no. My focus is the the the many who are not voicing it, but thinking it and saying, "Yeah, we want that." So, just really focus on on that.
Yeah. Now, now on one I mean I'm in a season where I I did like seven challenges with one offer, right? On the eighth challenge was the first time we introduced a downell offer after the challenge. It was like an inerson event. It was it was a great offer. You know, in my mind, I'm like, shoot, man. There was over a thousand people that I didn't sell the right offer to. But you know what? No, I became a millionaire with one offer. I wouldn't have done it with multiple offers. So, my my thing is like understanding your season, who you want to serve and uh who would love to be to work with you. I would just focus on that group and then over time you'll you'll you'll find but even that air that person if they think you're arrogant with that first offer to begin with, they're probably not even going to buy the low the lower offer or whatever offer. So again, it's just like, yeah, it's kind of like, oh, you're just here for the information, and that's fine. That's why I'm doing this, you know, just don't focus on it.
Awesome. Thank you.
Yeah, that's good stuff.
Um, you mentioned, you know, your first program was at like 2,000, then you did the jump to 25K, right?
I I I'll be honest, two and then it was like five and then it was 10 and then 15, 17, 21. So my question is what was the belief probably at that moment you didn't see it but you wish you had let go that you would like probably had jumped quicker like was there a belief that was holding you back that maybe later like damn great question.
You know what's so funny about that is when I first started coaching and I offered a $2,000 coaching program for a year I originally put it out at five check this out because no one responded right away. I said, "Dang, that this is crazy. Everyone wants in. I really want to serve you all. So, we're actually going to drop the price to $2,000." And when I when I sent that email that I'm dropping the price, and I did it because I wasn't I didn't have the conviction to charge five. Personally, I was trying to charge five and I myself never paid $5,000. So, that's one thing.
As soon as I sent that email, I got two people literally texting me and say, "Hey, I saw your thing. Where do I send the five?" I was like, so like notice how like my insecurity like literally like and and I and I my I I was insecure, but I was integrous and I said, "Hey, it's actually two now. Congratulations. Bet. Where do I send the two?" you know, but it all just came from uh that deeper place, right? And then and then over time as you start solving problems and you and you do see the results that people are getting, it just starts to just not make sense anymore.
Um, every time I had to increase my price, the limiting belief I had was I don't think they can see the like how they how are they going to justify the value? Oh my gosh, like it's 10,000 but now it's 15. like they won't see the value when you increase the price. And this is what I've learned. They don't even know it's you cuz you don't see the value. Increase the price. In actual fact, it's the opposite. They think it's more valuable when you increase your price. When you're thinking they're going to think, I can't see the value in that. It's the opposite. I'll give you an example. Let's just say I have this 100k offer and I got this 10K offer. I'm not going to tell you what's in it. What do What do you think? Which one's better? I want 100k.
Yeah.
Case's closed. I'm not going to tell you what's in it.
Yeah.
That's crazy.
But you already know 100k one's better. So every time you increase the price, if you think that they are thinking, I I'm not going to see value in that or I see I can't justify that. The opposite is actually happening in their mind. They're going to think it's better. It must be good.
So good. Yeah. Every time I raise my price. Well, that's really good, too, that just know too, nobody's obsessing over your price over time. Like, if somebody thought about joining at one point or doing the thing and they went through an environment, when you come around, you're teaching them that, oh, snap, it's going up. So, I must get in now because if I wait again, I'm in the same place. I I'm going to jump in. So, yeah, every time I've I've raised it, I've always raised it after like a an event, a virtual event, and most of the people don't even know I raised it. And then of the people that are doing the event again, they're like, "Oh, shoot. It was lower last time. Dang it." And that's a life principle that today's price is not tomorrow's price.
You know.
That was Thank you. That was 100K worth of game right there.
Dude. Crazy. We were showing magic tricks. doing everything.
Yeah. Magic tricks.
Uh, wow. Thank you so much. You're you're bright and you're type the type of person I I know people like love being around to include myself because it just Yeah. It makes me level up and and you're so uh honest. You could tell there's you're not hiding anything. And in a world where we're living in a trust recession, it's good to see good people doing good work.
Appreciate you, man.
Yeah. Likewise.