Transcription
There's a conversation that a lot of
people are afraid to have of if I've had
previous samesex relationships, how can
I still get married? Cuz for a long
time, I wrote myself off.
>> I wrote myself off on the idea of
getting married. I thought that my past
was going to keep me captive. That
because I had feelings for women before
that maybe I'm not going to have
feelings for a man and I'm always going
to have feelings for women. God never
desired me to be straight. God desired
me to be his. that right there.
>> Father God, we just want to thank you
for this time, God. We thank you, Lord,
that we're going to be talking about one
of the most beautiful things that you
created, which was marriage. God, we
thank you, Lord, that
>> What up, though? My name is Ara Ramsey.
Hey everyone, my name is Maggie.
>> Hi guys, my name is Haley Melinda
Record. I am so excited to have this
conversation. Before I go into this
conversation, if I'm to be honest, I
think I feel a bit inadequate. However,
I am excited to share the small things
that I know and also learn from those
that have gone ahead of me, widowed,
married, divorced, those who are on the
brink of divorces that Lord will be able
to even inspire people to fight for
their marriage again. And anyone who's
lost hope for marriage that God will
give them hope. God, we continue to
thank you Lord for the fact that you've
chosen us to do this work. We don't take
it lightly. God allow our tongues, our
hearts, our minds, and our voices to be
yielded to your spirit. In Jesus name we
prayed. Amen. Amen. Amen. Jesus name.
Amen.
>> Hey guys, welcome to this segment of the
show. This part of the show is You're
ready to eat already? Ready? I'm ready
to dive in, guys. This part of the show
is called conversation where we speak
about topics that Christians may have or
questions that Christians may have and
we speak about it as a conversation.
>> Firstly, thank you guys for coming.
>> Thank you for having us.
>> The topic of today is marrying into
destiny rather than desire. M marriage
is something that we think is just like
black and white but it's so nuanced and
I think that talking about whether or
not you know if it fits our desires or
our destiny I think it's it's a
conversation that's really needed. I
think you know marriage is under such a
big attack and I always say once you get
to this space where you are married you
think that that's it. That's the be all
and end all. So to have this
conversation coming up with these
amazing women is about to be something
serious. So yeah, I'm too excited. What
does marrying into purpose mean to you?
>> I'm going to let somebody else go cuz
I'm about to eat some planting. Marrying
into purpose, do you know what? I think
a lot of people have made purpose an
idol.
>> Ooh, preach it.
>> Yeah. I think I think a lot of people
made purpose an idol. And I think
purpose is not a destination. It's a
journey. And you can't expect yourself
to find purpose within marriage.
>> I think you find purpose
You're not going to start saying your
stuff
>> and not act like you're not going to
repeat it. Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> You can't find purpose within marriage.
You have to find purpose within Christ.
>> And the more that you discover Christ,
you will discover purpose.
>> And the more that you discover your
purpose, you discover the greater works
and the great commission because
everyone is a sign of a great
commission.
>> Like that Jesus will get the glory,
right? Why are you
preach?
>> I'm trying to be like you. I'm learning
from you. Mm-m.
>> But um I think there's a lot of people
unfortunately that have
>> really made marriage an idol and you
know marrying right an idol and um it's
something that me and my husband are
always saying don't look for the right
one like aim on trying to be the right
one.
>> Oh that's good you know because I think
we're in a generation that is kind of
pointing fingers and there's no
self-awareness.
>> Yeah.
>> And purpose starts with you looking
within yourself and having that mirror
to say actually
does this make sense? you know. Um, but
yeah, I I mean I will let I'll let Ara
speak cuz she's she's
Yeah. Oh, Max. Oh. Oh. Anyways, guys,
let me just let me give some clarity.
These are my family. So, if you see me,
if I call her Magstar, I may call her
Mama A. We're bouncing. This is a family
conversation.
>> Definitely.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. Marrying Interpose. I think
I don't think I don't believe in in in
the I don't believe in the statement
marrying into purpose. I think marriage
pushes you further into your purpose. I
think when you get married, the Bible
talks about two become one. And I think
the person meets you at a point of which
you are at and you guys continue
journeying together. And you know we're
having a discussion about destiny uh
marrying into destiny rather than
desire. And I think that in itself um
describes what marrying into purpose
marrying into purpose looks like. I
think when people when you look at even
destiny and desire desire is based on
how you feel at that moment what you
want um while destiny is irregardless of
how you feel irregardless of what you
want it is going to be. I don't know if
that makes sense. It's just a matter of
if you'll step into it or not. So for
me, I think marrying into
purpose isn't what it is. Marriage
pushes you further into your purpose. I
think before that even happens, you have
to know, okay, who am I? And this person
I'm going to be joined with, where are
we going? Cuz when you're married,
you're walking in agreement towards a
certain goal, towards a certain,
I don't know,
>> dream.
>> Uhhuh.
>> So you have to know individually where
am I going? And as this person that I'm
trying to walk with, are they going the
same way?
>> Yeah.
>> And that was our show.
I think they said it perfectly. I don't
think that anything else has to be
added.
>> Azure. Um, you've been a married
counselor and been in the ministry of
marriage for over 27 years.
>> What's the difference between a worldly
marriage and a marriage within Christ?
>> Sometimes nothing.
That's a good question.
>> So,
>> that's such a good question.
>> Something that um I think the difference
between the both and I think that this
is and let me say this. I think no
matter what it is, if if it's marriage,
if it's lifestyle, Christ is the
difference.
>> I think that, you know, one of the
things we try and do is we try and be
real like deep and like, oh, this is a
godly marriage. Okay, what does a godly
marriage mean? It just means that our
marriage is submitted to Christ. So
where we will have bad days, bad
moments, we won't just give up because
there's an anchor to our marriage.
There's an anchor to who we are as a
couple. There's an anchor. There's one
that has strength that we don't have.
There's one that brings grace that we
don't have. And so when we're talking
about a marriage in Christ, it literally
is just because Christ is the anchor.
with if he's the anchor, if he's the one
that is also sailing the ship, then you
also realize and understand that
wherever we're going, like the ladies
were both saying, wherever we're going
in our purpose, wherever we're going in
this marriage, it's being led by Christ.
And I think that that's the biggest
difference. And that should be the
biggest difference because Christ
teaches me to be loved. He teaches me
that my love is patient. He teaches me
that my love is kind. He teaches me that
the sun can't go down on my wrath. like
he teaches me things that keep me
committed, humble and enduring in
marriage. So I think that kind of
>> would be where I go.
>> What would you say marriage is?
Um I would define marriage as an
institute created by God. Um
for man and woman um to come together as
one um to be committed to each other
unconditionally
and journey through life. Um I don't
know. I think maybe that's what I would
say marriage is.
>> That's good.
>> You've been married for 3 months.
>> Yes. Congratulations though.
>> Thank you. Oh,
>> what are one of the biggest differences
that you've realized now that you're in
marriage rather than you before?
>> I think for me actually this reality hit
on the day I was actually proposed to
you. So I think the journey of marriage
doesn't start on the day you actually
get married.
>> Even leading up to it like your I don't
know I don't I don't know if you guys
get what I'm saying. A marriage doesn't
start on the day that you say I do. It
starts way before then.
>> And I remember on the day that I got
proposed to I was like yeah there's no
turning back. That's one thing I
realized with marriage. Like, okay,
there's no turning back. And I think
people don't realize how much of a
decision that is because this is not
somebody that you've given birth to.
This is somebody you've met and this is
a person you're deciding to commit to
before you even know what you're
committing to. I realize that I'm
committing to what I know now and what
I'm yet to find out. And I think if
people that are trying to journey into
marriage and that is something they that
they desire
know that you are entering, you're
committing to something. Imagine
somebody saying to you, you're going to
commit
your finances somewhere. And you don't
know where your finances are going, but
you have to just say yes to giving your
money there. You don't know if your
finances are being built up. You don't
know if your finances are being spent.
That's what marriage is. That you are
trusting your whole self with somebody
and you don't even know entirely where
you're going. Um, you don't know how
it's going to look like. You don't know
who you're going to become. You don't
know what's going to happen. Um, so for
me
that's what marriage really taught me
when I started the journey of it. Like
there's no turning back. Um, I know
people do turn back, but I think for me
I just made it my decision. Okay, my
this is it. Um, so yeah, that's one
thing that I've learned so far.
>> That's good.
>> Yeah.
>> What about you, Eddie? In terms of what?
In terms of what? Marriage.
>> The food is too.
>> All I got to say is Reena, she cooked
it. this for?
Wow, that that mac and cheese. Oh yeah,
the food is amazing. Like, I can't even
really focus on what people are saying
because I'm just so into the food. Like,
Remma's Kitchen 10 out of 10. Marriage
means to me
forgiveness. Ooh, come on.
>> That's a good one.
>> Forgiveness.
>> I wouldn't have thought of that. I love
that.
>> Um, and the reason why I say this is
because the greatest disappointment
you'll face will probably be from your
spouse.
>> Wow.
>> Because they have the access they have
access to the most intimate parts of
your heart.
>> So if you it's your training ground to
forgiveness,
>> right?
>> You know, there are some people who have
hurt me in life and they're kind of
like, you know, they'll be like, oh, I
don't know if you'll be a if she'll be
able to forgive me. I'll be like, bro, I
forgive my husband every day
>> and if I can forgive my husband, I can
forgive you.
>> That's good.
>> It's marriage is a training ground for
forgiveness. And you know, by the grace
of God, I thank God that I I've never
faced anything so on the grounds of
divorce. And what I mean like biblically
in terms of like infidelity or adultery
or anything like that, everyone's
different.
>> Um, but I'm grateful that I also have a
husband that's reciprocal of forgiveness
as well.
>> So, he's also willing to forgive me
>> cuz he'll fall short, I fall short. You
know,
>> there's things that you say. I mean, as
a as a woman, um, the most powerful
thing you have is your tongue. Yeah.
>> Um, you know, I'm I'm very conscious of
the fact that, you know, the devil's um
sin never actually happened only when
Eve, you know, ate the apple. Sin
started with entertaining the
conversation. Come on.
>> And women most times their sin is
actually not in terms of eating the
apple. It's actually in the
conversation.
>> So, we have
>> the power to be able to build up a man
and to tear a man down. The Bible
literally talks about in Proverbs that a
folly woman will tear down her own house
with her own hands.
>> So you have to be able to get to a place
of understanding that marriage is
forgiveness.
>> And then when you go deeper into it, the
root of Christianity, the foundation of
Christianity is forgiveness. And that's
a representation of what Jesus when
Jesus died on the cross, it was
literally for the sake of forgiveness.
And that is the closest representation
you've seen to marriage anywhere. So I
understand why Maggie came and said it's
instituted by God because the
institution of God, the foundation of it
is forgiveness. And if you can't have
the foundation of forgiveness in your
marriage, you'll lose it.
>> So good. You lose it.
>> So within this conversation, I want us
to touch on marriage. I want us to touch
on singleness. And I wanted to touch on
divorce as well as marriage in an LGBT
household and your thoughts about that.
Oh, I thought we're going there. cuz I
don't think the church is actually ready
to have a conversation about the LGBTQ
plus community just yet. But I'm excited
to open up that conversation. That
conversation shouldn't be off limits. Um
it's same way how the same the
conversation of sex, pornography, all
the taboo topics when it comes to
marriage should never be off limits. So
I'm just happy to ensure that the church
is being more inclusive and having more
conversations that we've shied away from
from years. Being someone that is single
right now
>> in a Christian community,
>> every day I hear the term of when are
you getting married?
>> Tell them to mind their business.
>> It's too much.
>> Sorry.
>> So my question is to you. How did you
know that your husbands were your
husband?
>> Ooh, that's a question. Is it?
>> That's a good question.
>> That's a question.
>> Um, should I dive in first?
>> Go in first. She's ready. Dive in.
>> Cuz I've been with my partner on and on
on and off for seven years. Um I think
that in itself is a story um and a
testimony of God's goodness and his
mercy. Um and I remember I think we were
dating I think year four.
So at this point so how did I know he
was did you say how did I know how I
know he was your husband?
>> Okay. So I'm one of the people I know
people don't believe in this um
rhetoric. I'm one of the people that God
actually told me my husband was my
husband. Right.
>> And at the time that he told me my
husband was my husband. I was outside.
So we're a year four into dating and I'm
just like yeah I'm done. like I don't
want you. Um I can do better. I don't
know if you guys have ever got through
that season where you just took out your
partner, you're like, you know what, I
can do better than this. Um
>> um and then I ended up going to actually
way worse. So anyway, so in year four,
we had broken up. We weren't speaking
for like 9 months, like literally no
communication. And I remember I had just
come from a date and the date the person
I went on a date with had taken me to
Mayfair. And I was like, "This is what
I'm talking about." Cuz at that at that
point, my partner wasn't making a lot of
money. So, I'm out here with some
serious rich guys that are really
showing me life in a new way. So, I
thought this was it, right? Um, my
desire wanted the materialistic things.
Do you know what I mean? I was like,
child, I've been struggling for too
long. I don't want it in marriage. Um,
that was my desire, but that wasn't my
destiny. So, I remember I've gone on a
I've gone on a date. I've come home and
I've gone to sleep literally in my
sleep. And it's not that I had a dream.
I just woke up. Do you know when you
just wake up? Yeah. And it's like you
don't know what woke you up, but you
woke up. You wake up with a knowing. I
woke up with like a just a knowing that
that and I just Let me just say the
voice of God. The voice of God told me,
"Habib is your partner." No, that just
doesn't make sense because again, it
wasn't a dream. I just woke up and that
was the first thing I remember. So maybe
I did have a dream. I just didn't sit on
long enough. But I just woke up with
that in my m with my with that in my
mouth. Sorry. So I remember I called a
friend of mine. I'm like, "You won't
guess what. I just woke up. I just don't
know why I have this strong sense and
this strong feeling of that this person
is my husband, but right now we haven't
spoken at all. And she was like, "It's
so crazy you say that cuz I just had a
dream last night. And in the dream,
you're with this other person."
>> As I'm calling my friend, telling her
this this sense and this strong knowing
that I have. She told me she's had a
dream about me and a guy, a different
guy and my husband at the time who was
my ex at the time, right?
>> And then I'm like, "Oh my god, that's so
crazy." And I was like, "Okay,
who cares?" Do you know what I mean?
Like, cuz God can speak to you. It
doesn't, but it's your choice to still
obey his voice. So, that's how I knew.
Um, fast forward, the guy that my friend
actually saw in the dream, I never knew
who this person was,
>> but I end up actually meeting this
person outside of the country.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> And it was actually the same person she
actually saw in the dream.
>> And that person in in in the dream, the
person was actually abusive.
>> And the person in real life showed signs
of abuse. And I was like, "Oh, like
literally I remember when the first time
the person showed signs of abuse, guys.
I was like the dream." So fast forward,
I didn't do anything with the
information. I continued living my life,
continued going out and then literally
outside of the country, I met somebody
else and they showed signs of abuse and
I and my friend said that's the person I
saw. Um, but even with that,
>> yes,
none of that for the first time.
But even so that was year four and again
in the next two years in the next two
years um we ended up getting back
together right and my husband though
said himself that God had never told
him. So he said he has to also hear from
God himself. I think that's also so
important. So yeah that's how I knew God
told me four years into our relationship
but didn't tell him until seven years
into our relationship. No sorry 6 years
into our relationship.
>> Wow. What about you? Oh, I wish it was
that elaborate.
Um, I am I am unlike most Christians
today. Uh, me and my husband were dating
and
uh I got saved.
Once I got saved, uh, he then got saved
at my baptism.
>> Wow.
>> And we were still dating. But the
thought process for us was the fact that
we loved each other. We loved God. We
kept having sex because we just couldn't
stop.
>> And our desire was to please the Lord.
And literally, we understood and knew
that this wasn't pleasing to him. And
so, we just said, "Yo, we know that
really there's no one else." Um, and we
love God more than anything. And so,
let's get married.
>> Mhm.
>> That was literally it.
>> You've been married ever since 27 years.
>> 27 years.
>> I love that.
>> 27 years, guys. Can you guys spell 27?
>> Right.
>> Am I even 27?
>> Listen, and that's why I'm not even 27.
>> Listen, you're just older than M.
>> Wow.
>> Thank you for that.
>> But that's the thing, like it's such an
interesting conversation cuz like even
when we're talking about destiny,
desire, all that kind of stuff. One of
the things that I realized, and I think
you were alluding to it earlier, Haley,
is the fact that
sometimes we put so much things on
marriage as if marriage is supposed to
fix us, as if marriage is supposed to
give us purpose, as if marriage is
supposed to be this magical thing that
does this thing for our future and and
our life. And just because of what me
and my husband have been through, we
just realized that actually the desire
was God.
>> Mhm. He was the like pleasing God,
pleasing Christ was the desire,
>> right?
>> And because that was the desire,
marriage was the it was like it was the
next space for us. But like we tell
people all the time and uh we always say
to people like one of the things that I
like to debunk from the Christian
narrative is that once you get saved,
marriage is the next step on salvation.
>> And I think that that's what we do a lot
of the times. And so people now are
like, "Well, if I don't get married,
then it's my purp like like Haley was
saying, your purpose is fulfilled in
Christ,
>> right?
>> Not in your spouse."
>> Uh Maggie was saying it beautifully. You
can push each other further into the
purpose of God for your life, but it's
not this space where this is now my, you
know what I mean? So yeah, that was that
was that's was easy.
>> Really?
>> I made a joke that went viral on Tik
Tok. Yeah. People were saying I was
savage for it. And I said, "When you
marry the best friend that you told your
ex not to worry about."
>> Hi.
>> Oh my god.
>> But mine's layered. So mine was layered.
So long story short, um the day that I
got saved was actually more or less the
day that my husband stayed into my DMs.
>> Wow.
>> And one of the first questions he asked
me is if I'm a Christian. And I had just
given my life to Christ. And um I
remember thinking to myself, "Oh, okay.
Yeah, I'm a Christian." And he was my
first ever Christian friend. So he was
basically my first ever he's the person
that actually discipled me first more
than anything cuz he was my friend I
asked all the questions to. So I asked
him what do you think about praying in
tongues? I prayed in tongues for the
first time. Tell me about this. Tell me
about that. And he had been Christian a
few years prior to that. So um what had
happened is that me and me and Sterling
my husband's name Sterling. We ended up
kind of building like a really rapid
friendship a friend a deep friendship
very rapidly. And literally within about
2 weeks time, um, I'm having dreams that
I'm marrying this man. And in my head,
I'm here thinking, uh, God, no. Cuz I've
just come to Christ. And two two months
prior to that, I was with an
ex-girlfriend for 3 years. So, I had
just broken up with my ex-girlfriend of
3 years. Then I get saved. And then two
weeks after, I'm dreaming about marrying
a man. Hold on a second.
>> Did you date boys before your
ex-girlfriend?
>> Yes. So, I had I had boyfriend,
girlfriend, but my longest like my most
recent relationship before coming to
Christ was with a girl. Okay.
>> And it was very intense. I'm talking
about I was convinced that I was going
to marry her.
>> Wow.
>> Like it was intense. Like in a
household, my mom didn't know.
>> I didn't know. But actually, she did cuz
Jesus told her in a dream.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got Yeah. Jesus
snitched. She snitch. She snitched. Um
Yeah. My mom definitely My mom got told
the name
>> her name. Mom got told
>> That's why don't play with a player mom.
>> Yeah. Don't play with pray mother.
>> Jesus told her the name of my
ex-girlfriend, where she lived, the name
of her mom, how her mom looks like.
>> The lineage, the family lineage, the
country they came from. It was deep. I I
never mentioned anything me to mention.
Oh, yeah. Anyways, long day. Anyways,
fast forward. So, started having these
dreams in 2016 and I was just kind of
like like a boo boo and a moo that I am.
I told my husband, listen, ladies, if
you're having dreams, don't tell him.
Don't tell him because it can come
across manipul manipulative and
sometimes people need to understand the
way that God works and the way that God
is. God is the ancient of days. He's
alpha omega. His beginnings and the
endings, right? And the reason why I say
alpha and omega in terms of Elohim like
it means beginnings and endings. I don't
think people actually know that endings
has an s.
>> That's good.
>> Which means that there's actually
multiple endings.
>> So I don't actually believe in the one.
That's a story for another day.
So going on to um my husband now, I
realized that God's telling is not God's
timing.
>> So God was telling me that something
could manifest here, but I understood it
wasn't the timing of it cuz I hadn't
fully healed.
>> That's good.
>> I hadn't fully healed from my traumatic
I had a very traumatic breakup.
>> Then now I'm coming to Christ. I'm
unlearning a lifestyle that I had been
embedded in for years, right?
>> So now I'm having to also believe that
God loves me as a father. I never had a
father growing up. So, there's all these
layers, right? And fast forward to 2019,
didn't have a dream again for a long
time. Fast forward to 2019, I started
having dreams again about my husband.
Um, he had a girlfriend at the time. And
in the dream, um, someone had spoken to
me in the dream and basically said that
Sterland's current girlfriend is not his
wife and you need to know. And I was
like, why do I need to know? She like,
he was like, you're soon going to find
out. And then I kept quiet about the
dream. didn't really I only spoke to one
person about it and I asked them what do
you think the dream means? They kept
quiet because they didn't want to
interpret it wrong. So, I was just like,
"Okay, cool. I'm not going to say
anything." The same time that I'm having
this dream is the same time that my
husband's ex-girlfriend is hearing
voices saying Haley is Sterling's wife.
>> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> You are lying.
>> I didn't know that part.
>> Yeah.
>> What?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> My god.
>> So, his ex-girlfriend,
>> what she said?
>> She was my god. Dan said, "Get out the
way. Get out the way.
>> Yeah. So,
>> what? So, funny enough, what happened is
that she ended up breaking up with him.
>> Wow.
>> That's honorable.
>> Yeah, I respect. No,
>> actually, there's she ain't innocent
here, but I ain't going to I ain't I
ain't going to bring up her business on
there.
>> Um, God had to remove her. Let's just
say that cuz she went she went on in the
relationship.
>> I personally think that God was like,
"You you playing around." So, Haley's
going to be better.
>> Period.
respectfully. But um what what's
happening is that basically so he broke
she broke up with him
>> and I think she broke up with him
because of self sabotage if I'm being
honest with you. Sterling Sterling's a
good man. He's a good man to man.
>> He's a good man.
>> He's a good man and um I think God
didn't tolerate Tom Foolery. So um she
broke up with him and funny enough I
hadn't seen Stern for about a year and I
ended up bumping into him right after
she broke up with him.
>> Damn.
>> Wow. And I hadn't seen him for a year.
>> And I remember I
I remember seeing him and he was so
angry at me.
>> I was like, "Yo, what's your problem,
bro?" Like I was like, "Bro, what's your
problem?"
>> Then he was just moving mad. He was just
kind of like, "Nah, man. Why are you
here?" And I was thinking, "Jamaican
boy, like I know I know we had seen each
other for a minute, but I ain't done
nothing to him." I remember having an
honest conversation a few months after
that and he was just like, you know, the
day that I saw you was actually the day
that we had a breakup and he was
basically like opening up to me about
how it made him feel and stuff like
that. And then um I was just kind of
like, okay, cool. And I realized that
when we were talking up and opening up
my heart, I realized I was catching
feelings.
>> Wow.
>> I was catching feelings and I was being
reminded back to 2016 and 2019. And then
I was just like I said to him, I was
just kind of like, "Yeah, I'm catching
feelings for you." So yeah, deuces cuz
I'm not trying to like I don't think
this is going to work cuz we've been
friends for such a long time.
>> And then he was just like where you
going? I want to pursue you and just
like that. Literally then that's where
the journey of us started. So our one
comes with so many layers. Sorry to take
up so much time but
>> it it it's so layered cuz there's
dreams, there's the running away.
Sterling got into a relationship. I got
into a relationship. I even got into a
situ situationship with a girl pri a a
year prior to that
>> that literally so mad like and I
remember literally when I when when
everything had happened I remember God
literally saying to me
this situationship the enemy was trying
to take you back to your past
>> and the enemy was trying to but because
basically the next relationship we're
going to get to is going to be your
marriage. M. Oh.
>> And God made it very clear cuz this
happened in another country.
>> And I remember literally thinking to and
funny enough, I had a dream that that
whole situationship was going to happen
and I didn't listen to God. I just went
to the country anyway. And it everything
happened. Everything that I saw in the
dream happened
>> and um I remember literally having to
have a conversation with Sterling and
being like, "How do you feel about my
past?" Even though we had a conversation
as friendships, now it's completely
different when you're having a
conversation with in a relationship
setting. Like, how comfortable do you
feel with my previous relationships
being with same sex? I don't think the
church is actually ready to have a
conversation about the LGBTQ
plus community just yet. Um, and
especially in the nuance of marriage. um
simply because I think that we haven't
been able to have an opportunity to
listen to the different experiences
um of those that have had experience
with sexuality. You know, he we were
honest. We were completely honest. He
asked me in terms of do I still have
feelings there? What where where do I
stand now? What is it in terms of this?
And we walked it through. And I think
these are conversations that people are
not willing to have. People are not
willing to address their past. people
are not willing to basically say um you
know this is kind of where I was at or
this is how I feel now and stuff like
that and you know there's a lot of
people I literally was on a podcast
episode the other day and they were
asking me Haley like are you a lesbian
or Haley are you yeah yeah and I always
kind of say listen I don't like man I
don't like girls I like Stellin period
like my eye is not bing for anybody
other than my husband and you know um
there's always that conversation I get
it all the time and I think it's I think
it's a necessary conversation I think
there is there is and it's it's a taboo
topic and for a long time I didn't talk
about it for 9 years. I never shared
this story. I only just started sharing
this story probably about 3 months ago.
And the reason why I share it is because
there is another there's a conversation
that a lot of people are afraid to have
of if I've had previous samesex
relationships.
How does how does that how can I still
get married?
>> Cuz for a long time I wrote myself off.
>> I wrote myself off on the idea of
getting married. I thought that my past
was going to keep me captive. that
because I had feelings for women before
that maybe I'm not going to have
feelings for a man and I'm always going
to have feelings for women. Um, but
something that I'm constantly learning
and this is not to attack anybody,
especially anybody who may be in a a a
journey in terms of their sexuality is
understanding that God's never desired
me to be straight. God desired me to be
his.
>> That part right there. And in being his,
you will find what God desires. Your
your desires will align with his
desires. And his desires for you is his
perfect will.
>> That's good.
>> So I don't actually believe that God in
coming to Christ, God made me straight.
I think God aligned me with my will. His
will
>> and in his will, I'm meant to be with
Sterling.
>> And in his will, I'm meant to be
journeying with the Record family, which
is now the the the family that I'm I'm
married into. And it's an honor. Um, and
I think there's a whole conversation I
think the church is very afraid of
having.
>> And I think a lot of the church has
handled it wrong in terms of marriage
and saying, you know, marriage is ex
marriage is not black and white. It's so
layered. It's it's it's a gray area for
some, you know, cuz it's the same way
how for me, I wouldn't put it just with
like same sex. I put it with like
pornography. There's some people who
have been having pornography um
addictions like for like 10 years and
then they get married and then you
expect them to just stop like it's it's
so it's just so many different things
like
>> so yeah I know sorry I know I dragged it
into a different conver a different
tangent but I just felt led to to share
that
>> you touched on you don't believe that
there's the one show of hands to to show
if you believe that there is the one
interesting thing. Why?
>> You're the only one. I'm joking.
>> The only one that believes in the one.
Um,
>> right.
>> I think again, let's we're talking
destiny, right? I think if if the Bible
says that God has a plan for me, right?
>> A plan to prosper me, one of good and
not of evil. I think that in that plan,
he also, and I know people say, you
know, there's multiple there's multiple
ones. No, I believe that there's there's
a person that God has. Okay, let me put
it this way. I think there's God's
perfect will, his permissible will, and
then there's man's will. And I think in
God's will, there's the person that he
has for you. And then there's a person
that God can allow you to be with, and
then there's the person you can choose.
But I ultimately believe that there's a
person that God has set aside for you.
It's plain and simple. That's what I
believe
>> God when he created you um knew your
start from your beginning, your
beginning from your end. And in that, so
let's say in the likes of Sterling and
Haley, um, picked up a Sterling, knowing
that Sterling is perfectly made for
Haley because for example, even with
your past as it's a good thing that you
had that concern, somebody else might
say, "Okay, no, and somebody else might
say maybe and somebody else might say
yes." But it might be something else
maybe on the other person's side that
you say no to. So I think God cultivates
a person knowing your beginning from
your end that is perfectly suited for
you with your weaknesses, with your
strengths. Um, yeah. So, I believe in
the one.
>> What about you? You don't believe in
>> I don't believe in the one. No. Um I
believe that and and I and I understand
that. I think that's that's um and I
know people that that feel that way. I
think why I don't believe in the one is
because I understand uh man. I also
understand the fact of
and this is where sometimes I think just
the way that my my thought process goes.
So if there is a one and I never meet
the one, what happens? and and and so so
my thought process always is I believe
that there is a type of person that
suits who I am. So there's a man there's
a person that has a thought process that
has a a way of doing things that has a
character um in in birthed in Christ
that suits who I am. Um, and because of
that, God will open up the doors for me
to meet those people. And why I also say
I don't know if I necessarily believe in
the one
is because uh just in life, you meet
people that you can be like, yo, you all
right. You do. And your minds think
alike, your your the ways that you go
along life think you think alike. You're
very compatible. And so just looking at
my situation, um, and you know, with me
and Tim obviously coming and just being
girlfriend and boyfriend,
>> uh, we didn't know Christ before we got
saved. And so this was just two people,
two young kids meeting, two young kings
meeting, having a a good time, falling
pregnant, having a child, one getting
saved, him getting saved on on my
baptism day. But the interesting thing
was
it's not like he was the only person
that I had who had the same similar kind
of situations or the same thought
processes with him as well. Um and so I
think in the place of choice
uh I don't necessarily believe that God
would be like if you don't choose this
one then my purpose and destiny for you
is not going to be fulfilled. I think
and that's why that's where I come back
to the point of if my purpose and my
destiny is in Christ then he will have
people and things that will be able to
help push that forward.
>> Um and so necessarily the one no a type
yes because I think that there are
people that can kind of fit the mold uh
that will kind of help me to get to
where God wants me to be. So yeah,
>> I just think that
life is not black and white.
>> Mhm. I just don't believe that life is
black and white. I think a lot of people
try and simplify
the God is a very simple God, but
unfortunately we live in a world where
there's an adversary and we understand
that there's spiritual principles and
there's demons and there's angels. It's
not just us and God. There is a whole
other layer of the spiritual realm
>> that impacts so much of our decisions
and what we do. We're mo we we we are
humans, right? So what does that mean?
We have a soul, which means we have
emotions, which means we have will, we
have forgiveness, we have grief, we have
pain, we have um disappointment and all
of those things. God has considered that
and understands that and he gives you
space to feel those things and he gives
you space sometimes to even let you act
on those things. So it means that you
know in even if there is the one God is
merciful enough and considerate enough
to know that he knows you in your
decision- making that if you don't
necessarily say yes to this he can
always raise up something else for you
to say yes to. So I just don't believe
that you know I I personally for me I
know that Sterling is my man you think
he's the one. Do I believe he's the one?
Um he he has to be the one cuz I ain't
choosing anybody else
there. I like he has to be the one like
I don't have a choice in marriage. This
is till death to a spot. So
>> well then you say in that sense that
there is the one
>> there is the one when you're married.
>> Okay.
>> You said once you say you do you did.
>> Yeah. Once you said you do I do I did I
have I will until
>> the death of us. Yeah.
>> I have a question though, Haley from
what you said cuz I know and I agree
like you know with life and how we we we
navigate life things happen. But do you
think that negates God's plan? Cuz my
thing is despite all that we go through,
his word, who he is, his plan for us
still remain the same. And I think the
way I look at life, right, is that point
A, point B, how we get there might be
different. But I think if God has
something he's entrusted you for for you
to do, even if it takes you going
through the highest of valleys or the
lowest of of of um sorry, the highest of
mountains and the lowest of valleys, I
think you'll still get to that point.
And the reason why I believe I believe
in the one on top of that is that if we
believe that God knows our like I think
my thing with the one is
we believe that God orchestrates our
steps
>> up until it comes to our relationships.
I don't know. I don't know if you guys
get what I mean. I think
>> we we say that God is in the detail of
all that we do. But how if he's in the
detail on all that we do, why wouldn't
he be in the detail on who we marry
>> being that
being
>> that being the biggest decision you'll
ever make.
>> But he gives you choice.
>> I think I think God also gives you
choice in your He gives you choice in
your business, your career. God gives
you choice in your friendship.
>> Yeah.
>> Is your best Do you believe in the one
for your best friend?
>> They are. I think there are some destiny
friends that
>> Yeah, I I get it. Me and you like we're
locked in. You
>> That's what I'm saying. Like we're
locked in.
>> Yeah, this is this is definitely a lot
being in the middle. I believe both are
true. I believe Maggie is true and I
believe Ara is true. I believe the one
does exist and I believe the one doesn't
exist. Um I think the at the end of the
day like the one that we should all be
desiring is Jesus Christ. And when you
are pursuing Jesus Christ, you are going
to find the one that you know you are
meant to be and the one you're meant to
do life with. So I just feel like the
one is Jesus Christ and in the one
you'll become the one and becoming the
one you'll find the one and all of it we
are all the one. So yeah I'm I'm
literally listening to both of them and
I'm like this is some good tea but you
know I I I understand where both of them
are coming from and I agree with both of
them actually
>> I think let me ask you a question then
what about the woman that is 65
>> and has walked with the Lord all her
life and has never found the one. I
don't now that that I also that's a
question I've been asking the Holy
Spirit like is everybody supposed to be
married?
>> But see okay so then so then in that
premise alone
that's where I that's where I would push
back on the one because this is my
conversation is if you're looking at
let's go like my husband always talks
about let's go to the and the the
genesis of a thing. So if we're looking
at the genesis of a thing God creates
man he says it's not good for you to be
alone. He creates a woman. And from the
genesis of the thing, we see that life
begins, starts, ends with this couple,
this union,
>> we birth, we do these things.
>> So, if we're talking about the perfect
will of God, then we can look and say,
well, that's that. Then
>> then if you if you come now to a woman
who is in her older age and desired
>> to be married and went after the Lord
hard
>> and is now 65 70 and never found the one
because she was looking for this
specific thing that she never found.
What what would be the conversation
there?
>> I think when I speak about the one I
don't think it's something that you look
for if that makes sense. And I think
sometimes in people trying to find the
one, they actually can miss the one. If
that makes sense.
>> So I think in regards to that question,
sometimes people can be so focused on
finding the thing and thinking it's
packaged a certain way that you actually
miss it entirely. So that might be a pos
a plausible answer. Um but the reason
why I even said are people like would
everybody have to marry is because the
Bible says that in the last days
>> I agree with that.
>> We will fight over men. So meaning
meaning there will be a scarcity. So
yes, in the beginning everybody like
it's not good for man to be alone, but
I'm going to fight my man.
>> No, but the Bible says that that in the
last days that I think
>> I'll fight back.
>> And we're seeing that that when we look
even in the church, there's a lot more
women than they are men. So that already
shows that like not everybody in the
church that is praying for a husband
might not get one. So then can I and so
this and this is why I don't do the one
because what that then looks like is God
is favoring because it then looks like
well you were favored and I wasn't. You
had your desires of your heart met and I
didn't. And so that's why I feel like
and I agree girl when I tell you I agree
with you that people have made this one
this list look like this thing and not
really resting in first of all and
foremost purposing God walking in what
God has called him to do and then those
doors opening. But one of the things
that I do think just as we grow in in in
grace is understanding that we have to
be very careful when we say a certain
thing because there is a space and just
because I've been doing this and I've
seen women there's a space where it's
like well wait a minute if you're saying
to me okay maybe maybe I did what you
did what what you said I shouldn't have
done I overlooked someone which I got
aunties that I'll be like Well, you done
you missed him cuz you was looking for
Morris Chestnut and he wasn't in the
Morris Chestnut package. We're going to
let we're going to let that be another
day.
>> Um, but what happens also that I do
understand is that there is a place for
the for the grace of God. And I think
that we have to uh just as seasoned
believers understand that the journey
and the thing uh may not always come out
the way that we think and it and
sometimes it is it's a good conversation
and it's it sounds well but as you
journey in life you're going to also
understand that there will be people
that look at you and say so what so I
was following and I wasn't doing the
foolishness I was open I was like Lord,
whoever you send,
>> but no one can.
>> I know a lot of people are going to be
thinking with this, I believe in the one
argument. I don't know what I'm talking
about. I just hope I explain what I'm
saying properly. I just hope you guys
get what I mean. I know again the pros
say there isn't the one. I'm not God.
So, it's just my opinion. Don't come eat
me. Don't come eat me. Don't come fight
me. If you don't believe in one, you
don't believe in the one. For me, I
believe in the one. Okay. Okay. So,
who's favored? And and that's that. So
my question, my thing is this. I'm not
even telling you don't because baby, you
got your one.
>> Praise the Lord. I'm not even saying
don't do that. I'm just saying that I
think that in in I love what you said,
Haley. Sometimes we want this black and
white. We want this is it. This is it.
And it's not even that. When you think
about even in the Bible, if we go Old
Testament, we think about how some of
the wives were gotten. They weren't
gotten by God. They were gotten by a man
coming and grabbing a woman and saying,
"Now you're mine." M
>> so I think that when we have these
conversations sometimes what we do is I
think we were saying it before we put
ourselves and what God did for us in
this moment and make it a blanket
statement and sometimes it's not that
sometimes there is nuance
to what that looks like
>> can I can I also share this I might this
might be on topic off topic who cares
>> that and that part is very true
>> who cares if there's the one or not the
M
>> who cares? I feel like this generation
is focusing on the wrong things.
>> Yeah.
>> Like we have made such we've had we've
made many things the main thing when the
main thing is Jesus Christ.
>> That part.
>> And it's like who cares if he's the one
and not the one? Who cares if you have a
kingdom fast? You don't have a king. Who
gives him what?
>> Who a kingdom?
Oh my gosh. I'm here for a kingdom.
Kingdom. Who? like
like who cares? Like I just feel like
there's just so many conversations I
think are just so unnecessary. And I
think it is a good question. I'm not I'm
not I'm not coming against you, my my
beautiful my beautiful one.
>> But what is you know what I mean? It's
just like
>> we are in a major where people we major
on the minors and it's like
>> listen if you're happy does a man treat
you well? Yes. Does he love Jesus? Yes.
Is he leading you to Christ? Yes. Does
he beat you? No. That's like that that
is
>> Does he cheat on you?
>> No. Is he pushing you into purpose?
>> Yes. Like is he the one?
>> Yes.
>> Like does he make you like does he make
you look more like Christ? And and it's
something that I've been saying from the
beginning of the year. Does he wash you?
Amen. Cuz I've been saying like a lot of
people asking is he the one? Is he the
one? Stop looking for a husband and
start looking for a priest.
>> Oh,
>> this generation is not looking. They're
looking for husbands. Like what Maggie
said, I want someone in terms of the
Mayfair. Someone in the Mayfair. Someone
Mayfair me, Mayfair me.
>> Does he fast for you? Right.
>> Does he pray with you?
>> You want Mayfair to pray?
>> I mean, and that's the one you want.
>> Like I feel and that's how I feel like I
feel like for me the one is one that
looks like Christ.
>> Yeah. one that can push me
>> to him deeply and cover me and you know
and I think I think that it's it's a
beautiful thing when you do find that
person and when you um when you submit
yourself to that. So
>> yeah, I feel like just
>> I think that that's a beautiful thing.
>> It's the most beautiful thing. And I
think I didn't recognize how blessed I
was having a priest until this year
where I faced some of my hardest
seasons.
>> And I I I I I realized that this is not
a man who will fight physically, but a
man that will war me spiritually.
>> That's amazing. Like you need a man that
has the discipline to go before God and
bow before God and bow before Jesus
Christ Yeshua Hamashiach and say on
behalf of my wife
>> and say basically to the enemy before
you touch her you've got to come for me.
If you don't have a that's why the Bible
says that love your wife like Jesus
loved the church. Do you know what Jesus
did for the church? He died for the
church.
>> If you're not willing to have a husband
that would die for you. And sometimes it
means die to your flesh, die to sin, die
to desires. It's like I'm realizing, but
it's also the same for me. Like I also
have that same mandate as a wife. Like I
need to understand that I've got to die
every single day in my marriage because
there's going to be sometimes that my
husband's not going to be strong and I
have to be the strong one. Doesn't mean
doesn't mean make him less than a
priest. It makes me his helpmate. It
makes me his e is ezar, right? His his
helper, right? And when you think about,
you know, Ebenezer, the god Ebenezer,
>> the the interesting thing is this,
right? And I'm going to speak to the
woman. The the thing is Ebenezer is
Ebeneza was always mentioned when Israel
was Israel was a strong nation, but
Israel needed help.
>> That's good. And I think with a lot of
people when they are being called a
helper, they mean it's weakness. It's
not. Weakness is not the same as
weakness. As a woman, you're weak, but
you're not weak.
>> God brings you a priest to call you up
higher. Yes. And if anything, your
strength, and the reason why I say this
is you need strength to actually be
pulled up because if you're doing
pull-ups, you need strength to be pulled
up. You need your own strength. You need
to have at least body strength to pull.
So, a lot of people want no strength and
they just want somebody to be a prince
charming. No, you need you need to help
your husband pull you up as well. Like,
he's got his have his strength and I've
got to have my own. So, it's like if
you're on a cliff, I don't know if you
guys seen in the movies and someone's
hanging off the cliff and they're like,
"Hold on, hold on or pull yourself up."
It's like if you don't have no shirt,
baby, you are rip,
>> right? Baby, you going go you and that
is what marriage is. Marriage is that my
husband can be holding me up and pulling
me up, but I have to have that strength
to pull myself up as well. And it's vice
versa. Same for if my husband's on the
other other end, he's got to have that
strength to pull himself up as well. And
I think, you know, there's this
conversation of, you know, I like, is he
the one? Is he the one? Is he going to
come save me? Is he going to say, "Baby,
nobody's going to come save you."
>> Yeah.
>> But Jesus. about Jesus.
>> Nobody. You have to save yourself.
>> Of course, through through Christ, but
it's just the conversation sometimes can
just get so
>> boring.
>> Yeah.
>> It's not that it's like it's not
important, it's just boring because I
think that relationships are so nuanced
and I think it irritates me because I
don't like how social media has
cheapened what love is. Cheapen
relationships. I mean, I was on a
podcast not recently and they asked me
about whether as Christians we should um
whether as Christians we should agree
with Love Island. So we we can't.
>> Mhm.
>> How can you agree with something that's
cheap in love? Do you know what love is?
Agape love like that that you could just
jump from one person that your someone
goes to the villa then you start lifting
one person and you can't say oh George I
love you so much. What what the hell is
that? Cuz that's how that's how they
sound.
>> I love you.
>> George I love you so much. George you
love me so much. You everything to me.
What guys? Can we be for real? Like that
is not love.
>> Yeah.
>> And then after you see they win Love
Island, win the money, then two months
later, oh,
he he hit me or whatever.
>> It was too much.
>> This one he cheated on me was like in
girls pictures, we've cheapened love.
And I hate that we've now made
dysfunction the norm. And dysfunction is
never meant to be the norm. And it's
unfortunate because the marriages that
are trying to fight, we now even
sometimes question and demonize it
because we're so used to dysfunction. So
we'll see a mar someone post love
content as be like I know he gay anyway
or I know she this I know she that I
know she's that anyway. It's like no
someone can love real love still exists.
Like there is there is this but we need
as society to create the space for it
>> because I honestly believe the question
about is there the one that question I
think that question actually came from
dysfunction rather than healthiness
>> cuz if we actually were learning how to
have healthy relationships that would
not be a question right
>> I promise you it would not be a question
it's everybody looking outward rather
than everyone looking inward in terms of
that self-awareness. So that's that's my
two cents there. Talking about marriage,
let's we've talked about it in in the
point of singleness
>> in a relationship. Let's talk about
marriage in to the point of divorce. Do
you feel like if one is divorced, they
can still meet their destiny?
>> Wait, what?
>> Yes.
>> Yes. Wait, hold on. Say that one more
time.
>> Do you feel like if one is divorced,
they can still meet their destiny?
>> Why would they not be there?
>> But there are so many Christians that
demonize divorce. It's not saying it's a
true thing,
>> and I know this is going to be a taboo,
but they're staying in toxic marriages
because not because of the fact that
they are trying to fulfill God's will,
but because they're afraid of the
opinion of man.
>> And I know many people that have gone
into bad marriages and are staying in
bad marriages because of the pressure
that's come from the body of Christ.
>> People wouldn't be making particular
decisions if people are being taught to
go back to God. Many people are still
waiting on their pastor for affirmation
and confirmation. There's many churches
that even the narrative is that you
can't marry someone outside of the
church. Oh,
>> you can't marry somebody outside of this
church. They must be within this tribe.
They must be in this stuff.