Veteran-Owned & Rebranded: Warrior Garden Exotics Enter the Reptile Expo Scene

What's going on, guys? It is Tuesday night. I am live from Minnesota. It's Proper Royals Live. I got Emily and Jim Gino on the show tonight from Warrior Garden Exotics. If you haven't heard of them, stick around. You should meet them. And I think you'll find them pretty relatable. I was excited to get them on the show tonight because we've all been there or we want to get there and they're going through some pretty cool things and their brand is doing well and I like them. So, stick around. We got a good uh good show for you coming tonight.

[Music] [Music] Good evening. It's 8:00 on the East Coast. It's 7 o'clock here in Minnesota. We man, I hope everybody's safe out there. We finally got through like the the heat dome. Is it me or is there all these new weather names that didn't exist when when I was a kid? A heat dome. I never had a heat dome before or the arctic blasts or whatever. Anyway, I hope everybody's well. I know it's hot out there in a lot of places. It was hot here yesterday and then we got uh there's another thing. The Midwest, they got these things called dretos. They're like hurricane force winds. We had it was like a cat one that came through last night. um which I've been through in Florida, but there's a certain sound when the tornado sirens go off, you're really like you kind of check your undies, if you know what I'm saying. So anyway, all went well, but I hope everybody's safe. There was massive storms come through uh Minnesota and the upper Midwest yesterday. I know the heat's uh just cooking cooking heading east. So take care of yourselves on that.

Uh tonight is u like all uh proper royals live content is now brought to you ad free by the good folks at Palm Street. If you haven't heard about Palm Street, you should check it out. It's a live selling uh live streaming selling app. Uh great for reptiles, but really just an incredible marketplace. It's it's sort of like uh Palm was the they started with plants and street was for Main Street. It's like an online Main Street of like artisal shops and whatnot. So, anyhow, go check that out if you are interested in applying to sell for Palm Street. Uh it's right down in the description. There's a link there for you. And also, since you're watching this YouTube channel, uh the most recent long form video that I just put out, excuse me, is all about uh both why I use Palm Street and how to get started on Palm Street. So, uh there's all kinds of information in there, and that's a new video. So, if you haven't seen it, um check that out for me if you would.

I got Jim and uh Emily on tonight from Warrior Garden Exotics. Stick around for them. They've been at it for uh several years, maybe even longer. Uh Reptiles, that is. Um and I've gotten to know them pretty well over the past few years. And uh they got an exciting thing coming up this uh this this weekend. Next week. This weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Um so that was kind of the the the moment for me to be like, you know what? Why don't you do the show this week? So anyhow, we'll get to know get to know them here very shortly.

Coming up, I'm still two weeks out from my next expo, but that will be the Snake Discovery Expo in Oaklair, Wisconsin. So, I'll be there and Emily will be there. If you're in the region, come check it out. It's um it's it is a small town uh feel of a show. But it's pretty cool and it's pretty eclectic. Uh Ed and Emily and it's busy. Ed and Emily bring the people, but um the animals that are at this show are pretty cool. And I never they do like a reptile only show and then they do a show called like wings, tails, and scales. And so like I do all of them, but some of them are reptile only and some of them are just these wild pets. And I I think the wild pets are always in Oaklair. But anyway, come out. I'll be there. That's two weeks away.

Uh, if you missed the announcement, I'll be working with Chris Eaton of the Fat Man Nation at this year's CRBE. That's Canadian Reptile Breeders Expo. And that's a part of a much bigger pet show. This is a massive show. He and I will be streaming live, excuse me, literally uh I was going to say literally all day, not 24 hours, but literally from open to close of the expo. And we're not stopping. It'll be one continuous stream. I think it'll be on both of our channels, but it'll certainly be on Chris's channel. And credit to Chris, he's the one that put all this together. I got a very nice invite to participate. Very, very cool. Um, so I think it'll be on this channel, but I'm not 100% sure. But keep that uh keep your eyes out for that and for fun updates and marketing on that. You'll start to see that.

Also, we got um Joe and Ash from Fear to Fascination. They're coming up with us as well. So Chris Eaton, Proper Royals, and Fear of Fascination all uh hanging out together up in Canada and I think honorable mention because these guys are doing a lot of the work. Uh Kevin from Sugar Skull Serpents and Paul from Large Marge Morphs will be there with us as well. So I don't know about you, that's a pretty fun trip that I'm looking forward to. That will be starting the stream will be on September 13th and 14th. I fly into Toronto uh Friday morning. Pretty cool. I got an afternoon to kill in Toronto. Going to be pretty fun. And then I'll be home Monday morning. So, Saturday and Sunday, we'll be in Toronto at the CRB.

Um, it's weird to say this because it's still July, but August is coming and right around the corner from that is September and October. And I've got seven shows that I'll be vending in 42 days. So, I'll be in Sou Falls, South Dakota. I'll be in Fargo, North Dakota. I'll be here in Minneapolis. I'll be in Tinley. uh um obviously in Illinois, then uh Hastings, Minnesota, and that means that there's two shows that I don't even remember where I'm going to be at uh in those days. So, anyhow, seven shows, 42 days. If you want to see me somewhere, I'll be out there. If there's animals that you see, you better get after them. And if you're ever wondering like where are all these animals that Adam produces, Patreon gets first dibs on them. Most of them don't even make it out of the Patreon. So, check that out, too, if you're ever interested in that. Uh something that I just posted to the Patreon tonight. So if they don't bite on it, we'll have some available. Uh I have visual ultraml hat pides. No other jeans in them available. These are just the the normals, but those are pretty banging normals. Uh ultramal het pides. Uh I may or may not have available. Uh Patreon gets a couple days on those, but if you're interested, hit me up on that. Um those are coming to market very very soon.

Um, I think, and I'm going to have to get Jim and Emily to keep me honest on this. I think the first time that I met uh them in person was when I had my first shot to vend at Tinley, which is a crazy story in and of itself, but I was vending out in the lobby because Redline Shipping Robin was kind enough to say, "Hey, I've got an extra table space and I kind of know somebody." So, the bad news is you'll be in the lobby. The good news is you'll be at Tinley. And I did vend out there. And I believe that's the first time that I met uh Jim and Emily in person. And we had interacted. They used to have a different brand name. We're going to talk about uh going through the rebranding process, all of that as well. Um, but uh we got to know each other. They became friends. They they are active member of the uh Patreon community as well. But I get to see them every time I go to Tinley. So, at least twice a year. uh they came here and we went and had brunch and hung out at the facility here. So, we've gotten to know each other and it's a real pleasure to have them on the show. Please welcome for the very first time Jim and Emily from uh Warrior Garden Exotics to the Proper Royals stage.

What's going on, guys?

>> Hey, Adam.

>> How are you tonight?

>> Are we live? The picture froze on. Oh, there we are. Okay.

>> There was a moment

>> froze on our screen.

>> There was a moment there was a lag. There was a moment where it was like that uh painting of American Gothic. All that was missing was the pitchfork. It was just right you two staring straight ahead. But no, we're good now. How are you tonight?

>> Pretty good.

>> Good. Good. Well, thanks for being here. Uh what uh what do you got coming up this weekend? It's a pretty cool thing. I think

>> we have spontaneously decided to venge Shamberg. NBC Shamberg.

>> Yeah, congratulations. I would argue it's not spontaneous. I would argue it's a couple years in the making and you're ready for it and you decided to go do it.

>> Yeah, we just kind of figured, you know, we're those uh sinker swim type people and there's never really a good time to do it. So, we just kind of jump in head first and see what happens.

>> I actually think that's a great point. Like, you can always think of the reasons not to do something. It's It's Yeah, give Yeah, give yourself a little credit and uh jump out there, you know.

>> Uh what was the uh what was the catalyst? You said it was spontaneous. How did that What you just like were like just were like, "All right, I think it's time." Or was there an opportunity or somebody pitched you something? Was there a table that came your way? What happened?

>> Uh, we were just kind of we've been talking about wanting to vent shows this year. Part of the whole rebrand plan was to get vending right away and it it didn't happen early in the year. And honestly, we've got clutches in the incubator and not a whole lot of rack space. So, it was kind of a what are we going to do? Let's try to vend something. and we figured one big show was going to be easier to schedule on our end than trying to do a whole bunch of little ones. So,

>> yeah. Um, and now you've definitely you've been to Shamberg before because I think we hung out there last summer. I think

>> we've been there. Yes. We haven't vended. No.

>> No.

>> No. I know. But you've you've

>> Yeah, but you've I'm saying you've been there as a as a as an attendee. You've seen the scene.

>> Yeah. I think we've only actually ever missed one Shamberg. I think we've been to every Stanberg except for the first one.

>> Oh, cool. Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Tell tell me this. What's the uh where in your in your mind where's the balance of like because I don't know about all but a lot of big names like there's heavy hitters at Shamberg. Uh where where does that when you say like you may as well do a big show than a than a few little ones. Where's the balance for you of like the fish in the pond? If you're feeling like you're the new fish in the in the big pond, uh does that excite you? Does it make you feel like I don't know? Or uh why not start at a smaller uh small town one?

>> Go ahead.

>> Yeah. Well, we have vended a smaller show and we felt that we could expand from there and do much better. So when we got the opportunity to vend at NBC Shamberg, it we decided what a better time than now than put our name at a big name brand of an expo.

>> Yeah. It's kind of one of those like the only other time we did vend before this was before our rebrand that was still under Straight Blast as as the name

>> and it was uh was that Richmond Richmond, Virginia.

>> Yeah, Richmond, Virginia Expo. And then we we kind of shared a table at Gettysburg at one point in time. It like we didn't have any logos up. We just had some animals on the table there. And we we just kind of figured we like the bigger show feel a little bit better. And if we're going to go all in with, you know, investing in banners and displays and everything like that, we just figure jump in the deep end and see what happens. But no, we definitely feel that we're one of the smaller fish in the pond as you like to use that analogy and kind of still have that imposter syndrome going on.

>> I said new fish. I didn't say small. I was very careful not to say small. I said new fish.

>> That's right. I said small.

>> It's all right. I I at honestly the reason I ask at Shamberg at Tinley I still feel like and I am a small fish. I like to say the heavy hitters are there and it's always been a question in my mind of um, you know, where basically where do I fit into that scene? What's my leverage to attract people to buy from me? And I've never really quite figured out those answers other than to just do my best and see what happens, you know? So, which does do I mean Timley goes well for me, so I think it'll go well for you. But, um, I I was I was curious about you jumping into the Shamberg scene. just seemed like a good idea at the time. We'll see how it works out.

>> Opportunity presented itself, so why not?

>> That's the old uh I don't always believe in this, but yet what is the the you miss the shots you don't take or whatever? You take your shot. Get in. What are you waiting for? Like you say, you're going to need space. You got your stuff. You got your brand. You got animals. It's this is it's time to go. Right.

>> Right.

>> Um, for people that don't know you, why don't you uh tell us a little bit about yourselves if you don't mind and uh introduce yourselves?

>> You want to go first?

>> You can go first.

>> All right. Well, I'm Jim. Uh, we previously decided to make the dumb move of trying to do two different brands under one household. So I was p previously marketing under straight blast pythons and was purely working with ball pythons with the extension into expanding into a few others. Obviously we've kind of combined forces and changed that idea since then. You know husband or wife team kind of makes more sense under one banner but uh Navy veteran. We're both Navy vets. I was a ET in the Navy medically retired 13 years. um did uh special programs navigator on hovercraft and now we're here.

[Laughter]

>> Did you all uh did you guys meet uh in the Navy or did you meet as a result of the Navy?

>> Yeah, we met in the Navy.

>> Met in the Navy. I gotcha. Uh well, first off, thanks for the service. I know that can get awkward and all of that, but I do um I do hold you guys in very high esteem for that. And I um, you know, part of why I I I think I gravitate a little bit towards you all and not in the same way there there's no relationship between the military and restaurants. I want to make that clear. I don't think that's the case. But I think that uh both maybe put us through strenuous times yourselves far more than me. But I think that when uh tough times come or uh challenges come in the market, it's a lot easier for somebody who's been through a rough or challenging time to go, "This is pretty good. I got this." Versus somebody who maybe hasn't experienced that or had a easier career path, and I'm not knocking anybody for for finding a great job. That doesn't come with stress, but I just know some of the things I was doing was unhealthy. And um, it makes it makes the challenging times for me easier to go. This isn't that big of a deal compared to some of the stuff. And I have to imagine it's magnified for you all.

>> I waited tables and did kitchen work when I was younger. Yeah. Restaurant restaurant life sucks.

>> The problem is I loved it. I was I loved it too much. I wish I thought it sucked. I would have done something different.

>> I like the cash pay every night from the tips waiting tables, but that's about it.

>> Yeah. Yeah, there. Well, and most of that's gone these days. There's almost no cash flying around anymore, you know. So, it's you still got on get on your paycheck. But, um, how do you do you find that, um, you're able to say that kind of thing to yourself where like, uh, I've been through tougher or this is no problem or this is wildly a relief compared to other things I could be doing? I mean, if you're talking about the, you know, trying to build a reptile business and working with the snakes, that's easy. There's there's some some headaches, but it's usually self-inflicted. So,

>> Gotcha. Um,

>> customer base.

>> Yeah, that's true, too. Let's not Exactly. Let's not uh gloss that over. It's not all rainbows and butterflies with customers. That's for sure. Um, when did you when did you guys did you uh when did you guys get into reptiles? Was that something that happened together or were one of was one of you like the driving force to the other?

>> That's your story.

>> So, I started secretly watching Brian Barek and his egg cutting videos and I got really super interested into it and the genetics behind the ball pythons and the variations of colubrates. It was a guilty pleasure of mine for months. He had no idea about it. And then my daughter started watching it and she got into it and I discovered that Snake Discovery was incredibly family friendly, incredibly kid-friendly, really broke it down to understanding reptiles at the basic level for kids, adults, and everybody in between. And once that started rolling, Snake Discovery ended up on our TV constantly. and he's Jim started watching it and he got interested into it. So in 2020 we went and got our first reptiles and it's just really been a snowball ride down the hill from there.

>> Yeah. Right. What were those animals that you got first off?

>> Uh first two that we got were was a corn snake and a rosie boa

>> and and then uh

>> we got a ball python. We got a ball python and then we got more ball pythons and then we got the garders and then we started moving into the geckos and it just kind of like she said it snowballed from there.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I think I counted the other day we got like 15 species now or something like that.

>> Really? That many? Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> We don't count. We just feed mouths.

>> Yeah.

>> Um Okay. Are there any guard rails when it when it comes to purchasing species or getting into new things or or are there like rules for like what's the hobby and what's the business or is it just like talk through some of that decision- making?

>> The original idea was everything is the business somehow, but part part of that goes to we want to eventually start doing like outreach and education as well. So, while some stuff might get brought in or kept with the idea of, hey, it's just a pet, the idea is eventually it's going to be used as like an ambassador animal as well in some way, shape, or form. So, somehow it's all going to wind up relating back, but

>> well, and on taxes on paper, it's really easy for it all to relate back. So, I get that part of it. So, then what would you say that your primary few focus and what would you say focuses? Folky, how do you however you say it? What's your what's what's kind of driving you these days? What's motivating you?

>> Ball pythons, garder snakes, and the new Calonian geckos.

>> Oh, cool. Okay. Um, what's what's some of your setup like? Cuz some of those take the geckos take a different uh uh uh ambient temps and that stuff, don't they, or not? Or can you can you keep them all basically in the same scenario?

>> Uh, we keep our house set at a balmy mid70 degrees and the new Caledonians are perfectly fine at that with no additional heating or cooling and it's a good ambient temperature like a for a cool side for the ball pythons and the corn snakes and we keep a warm side for those. So, it's really

>> cohesive and uh homeostasis is the word I'm looking for in our household.

>> And then what about in the winter? Um, do you heat the house up to the same temperature or you have I guess do you have separate rooms or spaces for the reptiles or they just out throughout the house?

>> Yes, to both.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. between between quarantines and

>> yeah, we're we're in the process which has been an ongoing process. It was supposed to only take a few months. We're, you know, year and a half plus in now to renovating our basement. And uh the the end goal is going to be we're going to have our basement renovated to actually have it set up specifically for the reptiles. So, we'll be able to kind of, you know, regulate temperatures a little bit better. But right now, we've got stuff spread all over the house. We got, you know, racks and gecko enclosures literally right off camera here. We've got racks in our basement. We got a whole spare bedroom that's full of just enclosures and racks. So, it's like stuff spread over all over the place right now. Um, ultimately everything is going to be in two dedicated rooms in the basement, though.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. What are uh some of the hiccups that occurred in the renovation? We all know how renovations go. I understand how budgets get busted and things take longer, but what are uh Oh, I see uh I see Emily maybe needs to answer that one. power and time.

>> Yeah, it's just time time and and money involvement. It's we're doing it all of ourselves. We're not actually paying to have anybody do it. So, it's kind of just been a as we get spare time, little bits are getting done here and there, but that's also, you know, along other house projects and everything else going on. So, it's just

>> our schools and life and just juggling all of the things.

>> Yeah, we've both been full-time students for the past almost two years. She's in her extership right now. So, it's just, you know, kids, animals, everything else. It's just lack of time. That's really all it came down to.

>> All right. So, you got you got kids, you got reptiles everywhere. I forgot the full-time student stuff, too. Can you guys talk about that a little bit? What you got going on there?

>> Yeah. So, I am finishing up my degree for becoming a certified vette, and it has been a 18-monthlong process. It's been very hard, but very also rewarding. I've learned a lot, and I hope to eventually focus in on the exotics, especially reptiles, if I can find somebody that will hire me.

>> Yeah, I was going to say, what's the path to that? I mean, is there programs for that or is that a whole lot more of a intern apprenticeship kind of scenario where you go work for the best person you can?

>> So, there's two paths for that. You can go to school and become certified and you have documentation and a license that goes with it. Otherwise, you can go work at a clinic and just become a tech assistant or a just a a clinic technician,

>> but they will not hold a certification.

>> I gotcha. Um, any idea which path you'll go down at this point, or is it a matter of getting to work from uh from the uh from the from the school time? Uh,

>> I'm definitely getting my licensecertification here in Illinois. It's a certified vette

>> and I'm currently working at Neapville Animal Hospital and you see them wandering around the shows doing health checks on the animals here in Illinois at the NRBC's.

>> Wow. Okay. I know exactly who you're talking about. Yeah. For for people that don't know, when you vend at the NARBC's, you have to get inspected. And I'm Is that a Illinois law or is that just a policy standard for the NARBC? Now, that's for Illinois. If you're an outofstate vendor, you have to have your uh your health certificates,

>> right? Right. Um, it's not as painful as it sounds, guys. They you set up, you come in, all of that, and the vets come around and you have a fairly quick inspection and little couple questions here and there, that kind of thing. But I I've always passed. Uh, it's it's pretty harmless. It's not it's not nearly as it's not an FWC situation that I've seen whatsoever. So,

>> No, they're actually they're actually pretty cool here as far as uh the Fish and Wildlife for Illinois. They're they're really not too bad to deal with.

>> Uh, first, thanks to Keith. Thank you, man. I appreciate that. Keeps the lights going a little bit. No ads. Adree, full uh uh uninterrupted enjoyment. Appreciate you there, Keith. Um, yeah, talk about that. What do you see about the Illinois Fish and Wildlife? Are they tolerable? Are they collaborative? Are they uh really a great uh uh resource? Where do you where do you see them on that that spectrum, so to speak?

>> So, so the guy that runs it, his name's Scott Ballard. He's actually a pretty cool guy. He's usually around the NBC shows as well. If you you can probably find him over there. We've talked to him a couple times on the phone. I haven't really met him in person, but uh he he's a reptile guy, so he's very sympathetic to everything we're all doing.

>> And he's getting into isopods as well. Oh yeah,

>> like invertebrates.

>> Yeah. But he he's the guy who is directly in charge of like infor in informing and and uh more or less helping to create the regulations. So he's uh

>> he's he's actually pretty educated on everything. He's a personally a colubrid guy and he's working to try to get a few of the things like they're trying to work on getting hog noses allowed here and stuff like that because right now it's all permitted stuff. that they're they're actually trying to make some positive changes.

>> Yeah. I was uh so for people that don't know, I moved from Florida two years ago to to Minnesota. Um, and as uh Josh and Sarah have have noted, uh FWC is is um is no joke. Uh, and they're not. And they shouldn't be a joke. I think that there's a healthy space for educated uh um regulation. I don't want to get into a a rant on FWC, but let's just put it this way. The the the board of directors of the FWC are all real estate developers. So that that tells you that tells me all I need to know. I'll leave my commentary there. Um, but I was pleasingly don't have to deal with that thankfully.

>> Yeah, I was going to say like for a state that uh is known for such things. Um, but in Minnesota, I was really surprised the the collaboration. So, ours is called uh uh um heck is it called? Uh DNR, Department of Natural Resources. Um, they're really collaborative. Our uh local herp society uh is operated and or one of the leaders some of the leadership on that works for the DNR as field herpatologists. And like when I got here, I was just blown away by that. And I wanted to make sure that I was legal and and and following the laws. So they were a great great resource to find out, you know, what was required for ball pythons and then also more specifically for ASF. Um, and it was really nice to hear an authority, the people that regulate it say you're good. There's actually no regulations on ASFs whatsoever. ball pythons. Uh, there's no regulations other than um certain municipalities will not allow uh venomous animals um, which of course ball pythons aren't. He said, you know, long as there no complaints, you're not going to nobody's going to bother you. And I was like, all right, that's basically how it is here, too. Mo most of for the most part, as long as it's not a native species or an invasive species, they're they're okay with it. They've got a short list of what they consider native and it it does affect a couple of common things like uh

>> western hog noses easterns.

>> Yeah, the hog noses um like the the uh species of corn snake.

>> Yeah, a couple of the corn snake morphs. Not corn snakes in general, but a few of the morphs have outcrossing in it that allows them or that makes them bad. I know like the root beer and a couple other ones you can't have here.

>> Oh, bullsnakes.

>> Yeah. And he can't have bullsnakes

>> or I think fox snakes as well or gophers.

>> You can uh you can have them. You have to have the permit. So Chris at BNS, he brings bowl and pine snakes. I think maybe I'm maybe only pine snakes or maybe

>> you can you can have them. You can't breed them and you're limited to the number that you can have and you can't take them from the wild. So yeah, there there's there's restrictions on it, but you do have to have a license for it

>> and you have to renew it every single year.

>> Yeah.

>> Gotcha. Uh for those of y'all that do come to Tinley and you are looking for one of those, Chris will have that paperwork and walk you through it and you'll leave with the documentation in hand that you need to have. Uh I I dropped the ball. I was You guys got to check out the uh the Morph show. Um No Remorph. It's It took me a minute. Pretty good. Uh you guys got to check that out. Uh they were kind enough to host me this past uh Thursday night. And it's a really unique show. much different than uh just the usual uh you know rambling podcast you might hear on a Tuesday night. So go check out their show. Um I had a really good time on it. We crushed two hours like it was nothing. And um so anyhow, thanks for hosting me to the uh the Morge crew there. That was really great. Thanks guys.

>> Um, so uh now is the hog noses the same things like you were just describing? I feel like I see them for sale at Tinley. Is that the same uh paperwork kind of thing or you can buy them there then you got to get out of town? What is that?

>> Same thing. You you can get permits for them. I think you can keep a maximum of six if I'm correct with permit but you can't breed them

>> and

>> and they pretty much get serialized. So, I we talked to the Herpin Harbins at Tinley and they fill out documents right there on the spot with your like driver's license and all of the information to make sure you're in accordance with Fish and Wildlife.

>> Uh, and when you said when you say serialized like they're they're there's ID.

>> No, just saying like they track them. Yeah. what what it is, where you got it from, they get your personal information just so that they can actually account for every animal.

>> Yep. Yep.

>> And then you have to submit that paperwork within a certain time frame to the Fish and Wildlife Department.

>> Yeah. And it's an annual renewal, so you got to you got to renew and pay for your permit every year.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, on those species, I have to admit, it sounds like it might be better to buy it and get out of the state, but we can't but the vendors can have them there. And so, what about are there any instate vendors of those species or it doesn't make sense to Duke since you can't breed them? You can bring them in and then

>> No, yeah, you can't breed them in state. If anybody's selling them at like any of the Illinois shows, they're bringing them from out of state with, you know, with licenses or permits to be able to sell them because Yeah. You you can't even get a print to breed them.

>> Yeah. So, I that's what I was just trying to figure out the logistics. So, they'll let out of state people bring them in and sell them, but if you live instate, you you're just you can't sell them.

>> That that's that's to our understanding. Yes. Because so when we moved up here from Virginia, we did have hog noses. Uh, we only had a handful of them and we were intending on going deeper into the hog noses, but after we talked to Scott here, um, he basically told us he's like, "Yeah, you can get a permit to keep up to six of them, but we can't breed. We can't do anything with them. It it's just completely from a breeding standpoint that there's no point to try. Everything would be under the table and if you get caught, you're fine." So

>> yeah, don't

>> like the gas.

>> Yeah. What is it? That's the Mexican one, isn't it?

>> No. Madagascar giant hognos. Yeah,

>> the the Giants and the theric-color. You can doriccolor hog noses here, too.

>> Huh. I was going to say like the the market for him seems I mean obviously driven by Ed and Emily at Snake Discovery. I mean they're they're just killing it with the hog noses. But even when we talk with like Shane at Small Town or like say the Herpin Harbons, they're they're moving them all the time. I don't know anything about them and I'm not gonna jump I'm not I like a really really focused lane of of species. So, I mean, I'm I'm just in on on ball pythons, but if there were another species, it seems like the market would make sense. Man, figuring out how to hack that where you're like, well, hang on. I can go to Timley and I could see people from out of state bringing in all the hog noses they want. Where where's our opportunity? But I don't know if that's a fight worth even taking. You got the legality issue with it in a lot of states though. That's the only real downside between those. What we're finding though and we're hearing like there's there's a growing market for the garders though and that's obviously we're into it more mainly because you know Annie loves the garders. They're one of her favorite species. But like we're constantly getting asked for them already. And just the other day we had you know a wholesaler tell us he'd buy as many as you know we could possib willing to sell them because he bought a few off of us and he sold them immediately.

>> Yeah. So that that's another growing species again probably due to snake discovery influence because she was marketing them for a while

>> but uh

>> garder's done right and the garder guy is also like a huge promoter of garder snake species and I love Brett Dunn and the garder guys like they're amazing people

>> and Trent West you see him at uh Tinley he's there

>> with just garders or specializing in garders.

>> Uh he started specializing in garders. I think he's also incorporated tarantulas in enclosures.

>> What uh how does the how do the finances of garders break? Like what's a what's a good garder snake go like? What are the those what are the Californiaifornian ones that are like red and blue? Those things are incredible.

>> Yeah, those are the California redsideds and like they're fantastic species to have. They're not quite as docel as I would compare to my checkers, but they're absolutely stunning.

>> Yeah, they're incredible. What does one of those go for just like ballpark? Is it 200 bucks? Is it a,000 bucks? Is it how much?

>> They they fluctuate. We see them around like 450, 500 a lot. We've seen them up to like seven and eight at one point in time, but

>> but then we've also seen them down at 200.

>> Yeah, they they they're kind of all over the place.

>> Huh. That's

>> one of the things with with garders too is they they produce large litters,

>> right?

>> So like if if you watch morph market on them, you'll see them suddenly flooded. The prices will come down and then a couple weeks later there'll be none on there and you'll see one up there for, you know, in absurd price.

>> We say litters because they give live birth. So not really sure what to call it except a litter of garder baby garder snakes. I see them in my uh uh for those of y'all that don't live in the land of basement, we have these uh uh windows that are like half underground, half what do you call those things? Uh uh x something uh windows. Anyway,

>> I don't know. I know what you're talking about.

>> The basement, right?

>> Yeah, the basement window. And it's half underground or in the ground. And those bar those uh garter snakes, they go down in there and for whatever reason, they end up all their litters end up down there. And I don't know if they laid it nearby and then they fall in and they can't get themselves out, but like our neighbors now know to come to me and my son Charlie and they're like, "Oh, we have all these snakes in our window." And and we go get them. Um, and uh anyhow, so earlier this year, I don't know if this is legal or not. I don't still have this thing. I did I did release it and let it go, but I was like, "Man, I'm going to try these garder snakes out. I got a bunch of them. Let me grab three of them. there's odds that uh you know there'll be one male and one female in there at least somewhere, but I couldn't quite get them eating right. And I was like, what am I doing? I don't need to I don't need to dive into this world. So, I I set them all out again. But, um, they're cool snakes. And like I say, those those those California, would you call them? Redsided. California redid. Yeah, the California redsided, a very similar species to them is also the Oregon red spotted, but they don't have the blues

>> they used to the vibrant blue with it. They're yellow, black, and red.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. I couldn't get them eating nearly as as easily as it was described to me on Snake Discovery. I was like, you know what? Why don't I not just impulse like I don't even know if it's illegal to take them from the wild. So, I was like, what? This is all wrong. Let me get rid of this and uh get a little education first. So, I put them right back out there.

>> That's surprising because they're they're usually a really good eating species.

>> Those are wild caught.

>> Well, that's true, too.

>> And when they're that young, they're usually preying on slugs and earthworms.

>> Yeah, I think I went with um actually, I don't recall what I tried to put in there. Uh, because I didn't have any. I don't have even like um

>> Oh, they love guppies, too.

>> Yeah, even ASF uh pinkies were too uh were way too big for them. I can't remember. Maybe I did put an earthworm in there.

>> So, you got to take them into the kitchen and chop them up. Use your culinary skills.

>> That's what I saw and I did. I like I was like, "Man, this is this is crazy. I'm not sure here."

>> That's one of those tasks that I don't like to talk to people about like when they get baby garder snakes because you really got to turn their food items into minced meat.

>> Yeah.

>> It's quite horrifying. It's my least favorite task of having garder snakes. There's definitely a video with Emily doing that to uh Emily from Safe Discovery doing that to some rodent Pinky. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I don't think I'm going to be doing that." I was like, "I I'll let that be for right now." I think

>> Yeah. Like the worst is the the earthworms cuz they they they move. It's a lot of movement and it it get it freaks me out.

>> To me, that feels like fishing though. I could live with that. I don't know. cutting. Anyway, all right. So, uh

>> any on to the next topic.

>> So, uh you guys are vending Shamberg this weekend? What species are you taking to Shamburgg with you?

>> Uh we'll have ball pythons, crested geckos, gargoyle geckos. I think we're going to have some leos, right?

>> Yes. A few leopard geckos.

>> And are we bringing those garders or no?

>> May maybe garders. Maybe I can bring some as a show display piece. See, like window shopping for the future.

>> Are they Oh, are they too young? Is that what you're getting at?

>> My adults. So that you can see what the adults would look like because I will be broomating this winter for many, many babies come springtime.

>> Nice. Nice. Yeah, we only have a a a very small number of uh actual babies and they're they may or may not be spoken for. So, I don't know if we'll have them with us or not.

>> I gota I gotcha. Talk to you know something I never and I don't think about very often. It doesn't come up very often. What happened to the leopard gecko market? Those used to be like the big like I had those things back in college and then I I have to say just like for a visual stunning array of color they're they're wild man. We like I think we got used to seeing them but they're colors compared to like crusties sorry I know I'm not trying to set anybody off but I think leopard geckos just blow crusties out of the water but you don't hear much about leopards anymore.

>> No. Like we love our leopard geckos that we have. It's the reason we're not pursuing a leopard gecko like selling or colonies is because trying to identify them is

>> right

>> nearly impossible for me. Like one little spot of color on the tail and it completely changes the morph.

>> Yeah, there's a lot of line breeding, a lot of uh polyenic traits in it and

>> we do like them. We're going to we do have some of them. It's not going to be something we're going to deep dive into.

>> Yeah. I thought it was a lot more of like selective breeding and and like you say line breeding rather than this is an identified mutation. Is that right? Or is that's not the there are mutations and all the other things we're talking about.

>> Yeah, there are both. Uh most of it is polygenic and lime breeding though.

>> Yeah, the enigmas are no longer allowed.

>> Oh, what? Okay. What were the enigmas and why aren't they allowed? What is that?

>> Um, it they're very w like the spider gene in ball pythons. It's just very wobbly kind of neurologically unstable.

>> Gotcha.

>> Like they're generally very pretty, but they're easily identifiable by their pattern and and kind of like off to the side quite often.

>> Yeah. It's kind of screwed up. I gotcha. Um, so I mean is there a is there a sustainable pet market where you can just because like I've talked about it some before. I love the idea of just holy cow that's an amazing looking animal. That should be worth something. Like I think we get so caught up in our genes and who we're selling to and selling somebody else on the dream that you could do all this if you have this which by the way I'm happy to participate in that. But for just cool looking animals, give me a yellow and red gecko with spots all over with the super cool eyes and it hunts in its cage like this. They're cool pets. I think

>> it it's a species that when we when we first started buying geckos, I think Leos were the first one we got, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And then very shortly after that, it kind of, you know, the the New Calonians started taking over. And then, you know, Emily likes the the odd and not common stuff. And then she she picked up a pair of Australian velvet geckos and turntail geckos and started looking into stuff that was a little bit different. It just kind of holds the attention more. So, even though, yeah, there probably is a way to to make leopard geckos work. Although I agree, I don't really see them

>> really ever.

I don't know where they went. Yeah. Yeah. It's just not doesn't hold, I guess, the interest. Yeah. As far as here, I definitely recommend leopard geckos for like pet pet owners for sure. Hands down. Yeah.

I mean, like I used to have them and that was I don't know much now, but I definitely didn't know anything then. And I was I I had I had some leopard geckos. They were cool. I like I said, I think they're maybe I need a maybe I need some pets or something. That's not what I I have enough going on in my life.

What What's one more mouth to feed, Adam? Come on. I know, but sometimes it's good to just have have some uh you know, guard rails and limitations where I'm like, "All right, I don't I don't know how I got to the end, but here I'm I'm at the end." And um uh no, I've got uh you know, it's kind of weird. I think a lot of people go through it where like we work our butts off pairing, we work our butts off planning. Um, and then it feels like, uh, okay, where's all the results? Where's all the results? Where's all the results? And then like, so today I was I was ultrasounding and I was like, I'm actually almost out of hatchling space. I have clutches in the incubator. I got another 12 or 13 coming here. And then I'm going to go do a bunch of shows in September and October like every weekend. And for fun flying out to Toronto in the middle of it, I was like, I don't need to take on anymore. I'm about to get my butt kicked. I need to enjoy this time where I'm like, h I'm getting a little antsy because I feel like I need to be doing something, but I think I'll go paint the car wash instead of uh buying instead of getting into a new species here. But, you know, that that's kind of what you're talking about drove us to just say, "Hey, let's vend this show." Because same thing, we we've got our hatchling racks full. We got stuff coming up and it just kind of feels like we're not doing anything when we should be to actually try to get our name out there and make some sort of progress even if we're not even if we go there and don't sell a single animal. At least marketing us doing something feels like we should be active in the community at least somehow.

I think that is a massively important point. I think people overshadow or get overshadowed of how much should I make at this very show. Like the people that you'll meet at those national shows, the people you're going to interact with, somebody could call you down the line. Somebody could Emily, you were spot on when you said, "Ah, maybe I'll bring some garder snakes so people know to ask us next time or know to contact us to get a mailing list or, you know, when they hatch kind of thing." I I think you're exactly right and I think it's incredibly valuable. I think it's totally worth doing. Yeah, I I I expect us to completely lose money out of this out of the show. That's not even like the the goal like you said, marketing and networking. That that's why we're really doing it. We used to joke um the very first like pizza or the very first burger that we ever put out of a new kitchen, we would joke, we're like, "Well, there's a quarter million dollar pizza right there. that better be tasty because we need to make, you know, 200,000 more to to get this place profitable. So, that's but that's kind of where you're at. You just made your big investments. You went and uh you got yourself ready. What are you using for uh what else you get for your for your initial investment in your your display and presentation and all of that?

Uh I mean, the banner right behind us, um we we actually got another one of those coming because this one you can't see it, but it it it arrived damaged. So, we have another one of those coming. Hopefully, it'll be here by the weekend. Got the tablecloth. We We picked up some used displays. We got both acrylic and deli cup displays. Got lights. I mean, we basically bought everything. The only thing we got used was the actual acrylic displays. So, I mean, we're at least going to look like we know what we're doing when we're there.

Don't forget the chairs cuz standing for an extended amount of time for three days is going to be exhausting. Uh it hurts at the end. Believe me when they're like, "Dude, why are you so tired?" I'm like, "I am fatigue." That's a real anti- fatigue mask. We'll be bringing those as well.

Smart. I actually I have those on my list. I have capitulated and decided that I need to get the uh the padding under my uh under my shoes. Um do you It's up to you. Some people don't wouldn't want to don't feel don't would prefer not to answer this. So, what's your like initial investment in your show setup ballpark if you if you want to share? Like say if you don't want to, that's fine. I'm I'm prying.

Got to do some math in my head really quick on that one. Easily 2,000.

No, it's not that high. Really? Yeah, we paid I mean used we paid about 500 for the acrylic displays. Um, we're about four and changeish with shipping for the back of the banner, tablecloth, lights, maybe a little over a grand,

Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shirts and stickers and business cards. Under $1,500. It's under 1,500, but

So, you got the merch, too. Now, what's your angle on the merch?

No, we just bought we just had shirts made for for our use. We're not actually doing like full merch, but we got like stickers and stuff like that, but that's about it.

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. You know what? I think um and obviously I'm I'm biased because this is what I think and I believe. I think it's fine to get started. I think it's fine to get in and you're going to you're going to get the chops and you're going to go, "Okay, this is working. This isn't. Here's what I need to upgrade." I think um I think we see a lot of times that we say like, "Well, I want it to be perfect before I start." Well, we all know how impossible perfect is. So, and suddenly there there's just this this snowball of reasons why we don't ever get started versus going, "What does it matter? Jump in. Get going. You're nobody's going to remember that one time at Shamberg that you didn't have a spotlight behind you or whatever, you know, like nobody nobody thought we went from like overnight from, yeah, we're not going to vend this year to we're doing Shamberg literally in like 24 hours.

Yeah, it definitely helps walking around shows and seeing displays that you like and what they've put implemented on their tables and what you feel would work,

Right? Put that on your table, like what drew your eye to their table.

Yep. It's it's one of the main things that I do like to do when I don't like to walk around shows because I get distracted by the animals and then I get overwhelmed because I'm like, "Oh man, how am I going to compete here? I don't have $10,000 animals on my table." So, I get in my own head when I walk around, but I do love walking around to see inspiration and get ideas. And I hate to say it, sometimes I like to see like I do not like that at all. I don't want to look like that. I don't I I want to make sure that I'm at Sometimes it's a higher standard and sometimes it's just wait a minute, that's just too too much. It's too much going on.

Yeah. Well, like weird opinion on my part, but I really feel that a display will sell animals faster than an actual animal.

It can. I I agree with that. And it it could take off though, too, because I don't remember who it was. And again, not meaning to ruffle anybody's feathers, but like at Tinley, there was somebody who had a really elaborate display. They were on the back wall.

It was over at Mike's Monitor's booth.

Was it Mike's monitors? They had like a really elaborate table and and it was it was beautiful. Like the the actual craftsmanship on it was great, but in my opinion,

Yes, the tree with the LED lighting in it, it was but in my opinion, the animals and it distracted from actually, you know, the product you're trying to sell.

So, yeah, I don't walk a fine line.

I don't know what sold or how they did. I mean, the proof would be if they sold any or not. on the other

That's just my opinion as like you know somebody who was attending the show you know looking at it

but it's a great example because uh I'm I'm certain it was by Mike's monitors but it wasn't Mike's monitors so it's near there but we don't remember

oh well we don't remember their name and we don't know if they sold any animals so we don't like I don't know how effective it was then

we remember the tree remember the table

yeah location Dave Kaufman gave him award for best display at Tinley.

Yeah, I remember that. And I can tell you firsthand getting into Dave Kaufman's videos does make a difference. He has a massive audience. I guarantee you whoever that was got a lot of eyeballs for that work and that effort that they put in, especially with Dave recognizing them. That that's something that I don't think um he gets enough credit for. It's e every It's easy for everybody to have an opinion on somebody who's got a large following, but I that's something that Dave actually does pretty usefully, which I have to have to give him some props.

I'll be right back. Be right back.

Okay. Um kids are making a lot of noise in the background, but like what you're talking about though, like with the displays and investment, like we kind of have a a vision of where we would like to be and like what what we're doing here is just a very very small scale to kind of jump in like what we actually want to do. Again, like you said, from seeing what other people are doing, um it would easily cost two to three grand like she was talking about because we were originally actually looking at getting a full like actual trade show display with like the the background and the arch coming over it. Like uh I've seen a few people do booths where they uh they tuck the tables to the side so you actually have to like step into the the vending display. And we both loved that because it actually pulls you out of the like especially at Timley, it pulls you out of the the fray. and actually allows you to look. And we were looking at one actual display that has like an arch on the side. So like you tuck your table up to the side and you have the rest of that space for people to come in and actually to look like eventually we'd love to do something like that, but you're talking like investment and you know starting out like you said you could always improve just not in the the cards for a you know kind of off-the cuff decision to do a show but you know that's where we eventually want to go. We love the look of that. Um, we got that from talking to Flawless, you know, how they do that. They have their tables lined up to the sides at Tinley and it it really kind of gives you more of a personal feel in a really crowded environment and I I think it's a it's an awesome idea and where we would like to eventually go with it.

I do think that it's um I think that the philosophy of of making it memorable and standing out is is important and I think there's a lot of ways to do that and I I have mixed emotions on those step inside sort of booths. They take a lot of space and then you lose a lot of efficiency and I'll be the first to admit where my table is at Timley is impossible for that. I think that um I think I got wedged in a back corner.

I think you're killing it with the space you've got.

Yeah, you use that space really well because you kind of got almost a pseudo corner setup going on there. But actually, yeah, thank you. And that was sort of not a case in point like, oo, I'm doing it great. Like, okay, here's the situation I'm in. Let me make the most with it. And then um then it was really embracing it. Then it was being like, "Okay, everybody, all the way back, all the way left. You can't miss me." It's the easiest directions in the world. If you ever ask somebody where they're at, they're like, "Well, I'm kind of to the left down the third row, then I'm on the right." Like, I don't know where these people are. At least mine I could be like all the way back, all the way left and look for the spotlights going to the ceiling. And so, however you do it, like make the make the most of what you got to try and stick out. And thanks for thank you for that compliment. Yeah, there's there's like a support beam behind me. So, I lose a lot of real estate, but then there's like an an exit row that has to be kept clear, and I'm like, "Yeah, there's I got a banquet table at home. I'm bringing that with me." And I plop it right on the side there. No, you you maximize that space. You really do. And and we're definitely stealing your spotlight idea. So,

they are um they're one of the easiest bangs for your buck. And I'm always blown away by them. Uh and guys, there's like a LED LCD LED uh lights that you can get on Amazon and they're they're just stage lights that are just up lights and they make a huge. There's just one behind me. Every every light you see behind me is just one light. There's not there's no more than than one back there. And uh anyhow, you could program them. You can plug them into your uh you could plug them into your iPhone and synchronize them to the beat if you want. Like you could do There's one show that I go to that um they have me facing the back. I It's It's bad enough to be in the back. They have me facing the back. So I have a spotlight on my banner that faces backwards. But so then I I turn my other banner so I have like a mirror image like two-sided and then that back spotlight is like a strobe light and I don't see it at all because it's behind me the whole show but I guarantee you every other person in that show sees that spotlight going bonkers behind me

giving some other people seizures. You know

I'm actually amazed they didn't tell me to settle down. I was like we'll see how long this lasts and and there was a little part of me that was like I'm not trying to be entitled. I don't think anybody should be facing the back wall in the back. You should all like all their setup should always be facing the center kind of deal. So, I was a little annoyed with that. It's not that I thought I was entitled to anything. It's that I thought the whole setup was bad. So, I was like, "All right, well, I'm going to make sure that I'm known." And then and then I put it in the Facebook post that day and I did well at the show. Actually, I'm going I am going back to the show. So, that's why I haven't said which show it.

Yeah. Um guys, let me take a quick break. Let's pay some bills really quick and then uh when we get back, I want to talk about um maybe some bumps and bruises that you've had along the way because uh audience, everybody goes through them and then I think you guys along with the uh the vet positioning. I think you've done some cool positioning in the industry as well and I do think you've set yourself up for the long haul. So, uh let's jump into that in just a second. Guys, I want to tell you uh as I mentioned earlier, Palm Street uh makes all of Proper Royals live content now commercial adree as well as the advertisers I'm about to tell you about. These are people in our industry supporting our industry. So, hear me out for the next uh you know 40 seconds, huh? Uh check out Redline Shipping. They are who I ship with. And for me, it's a simple answer of they have service. they service is part of what they do explicitly versus some other options that specifically say that service is something that they literally will never do uh as far as having humans that will respond to you on time uh in real time. So, I like that they have the uh the knowledge, the institutional knowledge of the industry. Um temps are roaring out there. They have supplies, all of that kind of stuff. So, check out Redline Shipping. Uh check out the customer service experience there from the Redline team. Use promo code proper 5. Get yourself five bucks off of your next shipping label. Check out shedtesting.com. That is Charlie. Speaking of service, uh he's who you can talk to. He's who's doing your tests. He's who's reporting the results. Uh over uh coming up on 40 ball python genes available on his website that you could check out. The newest ones that are live are Lace, Monarch, Hurricane, and Monsoon, as well as things like VPI, Aanthic, Wookie, Sunset, Clown, Puzzle, Ultrammell, Zebra, and more. Uh, as well as the Yellow Belly Complex. And if you ever have a question, if you're looking for a test that might not be listed, like Charlie doesn't list every uh gene in the yellow belly complex, but he does have the tests for those. So, uh, check out Charlie at shedtesting.com. That is the website and the brand name. And if you use the promo code proper 15, you're going to get yourself 15% off of two orders of shed tests. And you can order as many shed tests per order as you like. So, two big batches of shed test. You can get 15% off. Check that out. Uh Reagan Renee Royal Pythons. That is uh that's Charlie Ryan. That's a different Charlie. That's Charlie Ryan out in New Jersey. And uh Charlie has been a great partner to work with. is the current reigning undefeated uh 15 minutes of lame champion uh from Chris Eaton's uh Fat Man Nation and Charlie is working with Krypton's DG Gstripe Candy Pied Clowns and single doubles and triple ingredients. Um Charlie's one of the best analytical minds in this industry that I've come across and it shows in his uh choices of breeding and the results in his animals. You should go check out Charlie's uh Morph Market. Portuguese pythons. I love what they're doing with Ultra Male. I'm pretty excited. I mentioned earlier I've got some Ultramale het pides available. I kept the ones back that have the the genetic combos in them, but I have a few more clutches coming this year. And all of my Ultramal Pi stuff uh started with Danny and Renee. They're working Ultraml in Puzzle, Ultraml in Clown, Ultraml in Pied. They're also working in uh Ghost and True Ghost projects as well. And then they do this cool thing with these dark jeans in the Ultra Male and they're beautiful animals. They've got a lot of stuff uh as well as sunset uh hypo project. Um Ultramal puzzles and Ultramal clowns that are available on Morph Market right now. Uh really exquisite animals and great people to work with. Danny and Rene are awesome. I can't wait to get to meet them in person one of these days. Sarah and Josh are Sund Dog Serpents. They are out of Orlando, Florida. and I've had the uh joy and pleasure to work with them for I would three and a half years. I mean, at least since uh 2021, I've been working with Sarah and Josh. Uh we vended together a couple times um in Central Florida Repticons and I've got some of their animals. They've certainly got some of my animals and I'm proud of what they're doing. They're working heavy in the TSK project, TSK Clown. That's uh TSK is the other line of Aanthic TSK clown projects as well as uh asphalt and super asphalt projects. They also have projects like uh blood pythons and I don't know if they're breeding them or not. I think they have some euromastics as well. I know that they have them as pets, but I think that they have them maybe available, maybe not, but they will maybe. So check them out. That is Sund Dog Serpent Sarah and Josh. Um thanks guys. I appreciate that support. and BNS Reptilia. Chris uh from BNS Reptilia is the original advertising uh sponsor on Proper Royals Live. He's also my advertising partner at Tinley. He'll be there in October with me. Chris is BNS Reptilia because he specializes in ball pythons, blood pythons, locality boas, colubrids of all shapes and sizes, pituous, the bull and the pine snakes. Uh, and he will have a wide selection there with me at the proper royals table at uh, Timley in October. I should say our table. I'll have my banner there. Chris will have his banner there. We're both there. We're partners at the table. He'll be there all the way back all the way to the left. Come hang out. Uh, Chris is also the regional distributor for the chipper. And, uh, if you are interested, uh, that's Coco. Uh, if you're interested in being a distributor for the Chipper yourself, get in touch with Chris. He'll help you out on that, too. Thank you to all the sponsors. Thanks to the audience as well. I can't do this without you here, and I appreciate you. Coming up on four years now I've been doing this on Tuesday nights, and I keep coming back for the guests and the audience. Tonight, we have Jim and Emily from Warrior Garden Exotics, and we've been talking about sort of their experience getting to this point. They are vending Shamberg this uh weekend. Do they have a VIP at Shamberg on Friday night or is it only Saturday and Sunday?

Yeah, they got a VIP.

Okay, gotcha. On Friday?

Yes.

Cool. So, starting Friday, you can see uh Sorry, my son and my dogs are going bonkers upstairs. I'm trying not to be I just had to let that out. Now I feel better. I can acknowledge why I'm looking at the ceiling with this.

Our daughters are making a ton of noise in the next room, too. And we don't know if you can hear them or not. So,

uh No, I can't hear yours. Maybe maybe you can't hear mine, but uh I could tell you who is going to hear me very shortly after this show. Uh all right, so uh Jim and Emily, people could catch up with you on uh starting on Friday night at Shamberg. Correct.

Yep.

Cool.

And you just reminded me during your ad spot here that I I got sheds that I got to send over to Charlie and I've been sitting on because I've got a clutch hatching literally this weekend that I need shed results to know what I'm looking at. So

Oh, yeah. You better get them over there to Charlie Fast then if you need those.

Oh yeah, I I have no delusion of of that of actually having results that fast.

Oh, no. At this point, we're sitting on eggs waiting for them to hatch,

Right? Literally.

I gotcha. I do.

It's a It's a It's a lace clutch and I just want to confirm that the male is actually lace and not part of that whole lace conspiracy.

You better uh you better check that out. I don't know. Is it a is it a conspiracy or was it a never I don't actually I late to the mic the other day. They referred to it as a conspiracy. the joke. That's just why I was saying that.

Well, I saw Stephen posted a video about the uh the fake conspiracy. So, you know,

uh nifty way to to disavow the conspiracy, but still get conspiracy into the title. That's a masterful move, I have to say, now that I'm saying it out loud. Um, hey, what's up, Dale? Thanks for coming tonight, man. Um, all right. What are some of if you if you could stomach sharing them, what are some of the bumps and bruises that you feel like you've experienced along the way that in retrospect you go either, everybody goes through that, or oh yeah, I'd heard about that, but I didn't really think it was uh something I had to worry about. What are uh what are some of those experiences that maybe some other uh um people that are thinking of getting started might might need to be prepared for?

Owning reptiles. All of it.

Yeah. Literally the worms, wheezes, and weird diseases. Quarantine. Quarantine. Quarantine. Quarantine. Everything you get and have.

Wow. So, you've had some rough experiences with that.

Yeah. We We had uh we haven't lost any collections, but we started off with the I you know, that Rosie boa that we got in the beginning had ID and Um, so that was an issue. We did lose one ball python that was in an enclosure right next to it. And then in I don't know what was it, 22 or 23, we I think it was 22, I don't know, a couple years ago, we picked up a a small collection and we got some disease issues that came out of that. And

what was the issue? We had an animal that had Nido out of that collection and we wound up having to test literally everything which was

expensive but necessary.

Bouts of respiratory infections.

Yeah, that's that is all the the Naido relation.

Uh no, just uh yeah, just dealing with dealing with our eyes and Oh yeah, we had an albino that had chronic r that we no longer have as well. Not that anything happened to

we made them better and we rehomed him. I got

how how um how rampant or how far spreading had Naido been or did you find that it it

glad you found it? Nothing else?

Nothing else tested. We had we had one animal that Sorry, we had two animals that were suspected. One tested positive for sure. The other one we didn't test but we're almost positive. She had it and we got no no positives in the rest of the collection. We tested all of our adult breeders and and nothing came back positive. And we haven't seen anything since then either to to make us think that we got a false positive. But we're going to, you know, sporadically randomly test at least the the males moving forward. And if something comes up in the males, then obviously test the breeding groups. And

it wasn't until recently that we took that collection of animals out of quarantine.

Yeah. We had those in quarantine for two years

just about.

Oh yeah, I would want to be like I mean part of you must have just been like all of them just just go just I mean I guess you can't you're kind of stuck what do you do because you don't want to sell them and get that reputation uh Tom

and you don't want to kill them if not necessary.

Well well in full you know transparency we did sell some of that collection before we found that because we like when we bought the collection we never intended to keep all of it. We were you know going to be keeping some of it that we wanted and we were going to rehome the rest. You know, we did rehome some quite a while before that,

but but we still had them in quarantine for like

Yeah. Almost two years.

Nine months.

A year almost.

Yeah. Almost a year. It was over a year before we decided to start selling them. Yeah.

And they didn't show any signs of illness at that time.

Yeah. But that collection hit us multiple ways because that was, you know, we talked last year um you know, in person. That was the collection that we had all the fake heads out of too. So there there's another, you know, a handful of pairings that we had last year that all wound up being not head for what they were supposed to be had for.

Um yeah. Uh gosh, several thoughts. What was the first thought? What was the indicator that you needed to to test for Nido? Did something get visibly sick and was showing symptoms?

Yeah, we had uh one of the females that as soon as she ovulated, like from then on was just constantly seeming like she had an RI. She was wheezing. She was drooling.

Excessive drooling, you know, just a normal RI. And then after she laid, she wouldn't go back on food and it it was just bad. So we we tested her and she tested positive

humanely euthanized.

Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. And I I guess like so we we all see these uh collections that people are are getting out and they're available and or somebody wants to sell, you know, uh hey, here's stuff that I can't sell, but you have a brand. Can you buy it? And this and that. And sometimes I will and sometimes I don't. But to your point, um quarantine is vitally important. But I know I've offended some people before when I tell them I said I if I don't really really know you, I'm probably not going to pay you for the hats. I'll pay you for what I can visually see. Um I'll appreciate all the input you can give me on the rest of it, but um in my mind there's almost there's a reason that they that they're either getting out or uh it's a little bit different if they're just trying to wholesale stuff. That's a but but it's not different on what I'll pay for. Like I say, I I um it's just such a risk and such you got to put your name on it. How are you going to put your name on it? Um especially if selling it, but even if you're keeping it, like you say, um you're going to lose out on on a year of of breeding and time and effort and care. Well, so like as far as the hats that we've had issues with hats beyond just that collection and and I'm going to be honest moving forward, I don't know if I will personally trust buying hats again, period. Like it, in my opinion, unless we really really really know the person and really really trust the person, I think it's going to be visuals only moving forward. Um or unless we make the heads because even outside of that, we've had a few issues with heads not proving out correctly. And like just uh couple weeks ago, we cut a clutch that was supposed to be the male was supposed to be head for clown and it was paired to a visual and we got no zero.

Yeah. Zero visuals. And I know that's statistically possible, but yeah, it's unlikely on a 68 clutch. And we we got that boy from a a very well-known breeder, and I'm not going to throw names out there or anything like that, but we're we're going to test him to verify that, too. But we've been having ongoing issues with heads not proving out what they're supposed to be. But in terms of the collection with the health, that's not the only collection that we've taken in that we've had issues with. So like I don't know if we'll ever do the whole collection thing either. So we took in uh was it 32 geckos?

Like 28

28 New Calonians and that was a event. That was a full event that uh we took them in from a what was like a hoarder situation and we weren't and we were actually at Tinley this when we were still living in Virginia and we had some friends of ours uh watching our animals.

Yeah. And everything got dropped off at our house while we weren't there. Well, we didn't know that every one of those enclosures was full of German cockroaches. Oh,

and so we had, this was obviously we were living in Virginia at the time. We had a infestation issue we had to deal with when we got home from those things sitting in our house full of roaches for the better part of a week.

I'm sorry. That's It's like, you know what? Sometimes you just hear something and you're like, all you could do is like have that nervous laugh. Oh, that would be awful. We We were fighting those roaches for

up until we moved. up until we up until we left Virginia. We were still catching roaches six months later.

I tell you, I had I had a a bearded dragon, my son did, and we got uh what are the the dubia roaches? Those things in Florida are just they just explode. And that they were

Oh, you're not allowed to have dubia roaches in Florida there, Adam.

Well, whatever they were. Well, maybe maybe they're you can have the red runners, but you can't have dubia because dubia are a tropical species and thrive and go absolutely nuts in Florida conditions.

They were regular.

They might have been discoid. They had the round butts with like the the layers or the the whatever the things were. They they could have been discoids. All I knew was that no other roaches were ever going to be uh fed to that animal anymore. I was done with that. Um there's a

I think we're done with collect with taking in full collections like honestly

you know I think uh it's it's really not starting out it provides good opportunity and there's high risk high reward for it after you know after a certain point I don't I don't think it's it's really necessary. There's been a couple there's a few breeders still from Florida that I work with that I just I know them well. I've never had a problem with their animals. So, it's not like I'm just like, "Hey guys, send, you know, I'll be your used car salesman of of reptiles." That's not the case. Um, yeah. Okay. Sarah says it was Discord. So, sorry, Emily. I might I might have I might be absolved. I might not be. I wouldn't know the difference between the two of them, but it

a roach is a roach is a roach is a roach at the end of the day, honestly.

And there was a lot of them. Um, so, uh, the, um, yeah. So, like the the animals that I will take in are generally from breeders that I know. And then Dale brings up a good point like if it's a I hope and I don't want to dig in on like you say calling out a name or somebody you're still trying to work with, but like a reputable breeder in that scenario should be willing to say to you, look, let's either work out a test, let's work out uh if it's not um you know, if it turns out that I made a mistake because I think that mistakes do happen. And I think cleaning um there are days where I'm so tired and I'm like, "Man, you've got to pay attention, Adam. One animal, one at a time kind of thing." Um so I could see where mistakes happen. It just it sucks when you hear it repeatedly. You guys have had some rough patches, especially I didn't even know about the the the cockroaches infesting your house. Yeah, that

that's that's something I like to talk about because it's uh it's somebody that I thought I could trust that I took their collection in and as it turned out we uh no good deed goes unpunished kind of scenario.

Yeah. Uh there are times as I mean not just friends and relationships but even um just flatout customers where uh yeah you could feel taken advantage of or you you you extend one kind uh you know opportunity to somebody or caring opportunity and and it turns out that they're just trying to look for a way to take advantage of you really. And I I hate when I that stuff drives me just about the most crazy. You know what? You look at the positive and everything. It made our move from Virginia to Illinois really easy because we threw out a lot of furniture.

So much furniture.

We're out of here.

Basically reset.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Um well uh let me see. We can finish up on this topic. One of the things that uh I really liked um and I knew this uh and talking with Jim over some time was that Jim you got into um working in the reptile industry and in the pet industry and I thought it was such a great like smart move to position yourself for learning for knowledge for relationships for opportunities. Uh could you talk a little bit about that as much as you like to or not want to? I don't want to ruin any any uh speaking of any relationships.

Yeah. I mean, I I don't know if I really look at it the same way as positioning. So, like backtracking a little bit before anything that I did when we were still in Virginia, Emily started working at a local reptile shop over there called Pet Paradise. Um, and she was, you know, making a lot of connections in the local community over in like the Hampton Roads area. And we were also obviously getting all of our feeders from them. and you know just in general making good connections and and friends over there. And then when we moved out this way, uh originally we were just looking for a local reptile shop just for feeders and supplies and stuff like that. And then Chicago Reptile House put out a post online that they were looking for someone to help manage their ball python collection. So I reached out right away over there. You know, Brian and Jeff at the Reptile House, they're both vets, so they like hiring vets. And I just kind of stepped into a part-time position really. Yeah, I I don't really say that I would say that I work in like the pet hobby. I just I go in on the weekends and I help manage their collection. I clean poop, you know, change out tubs, feed animals, and help with pairing, stuff like that.

But it's allowed me to step into the local market and, you know, Brian Potter being one of the owners of Reptile House, it's a it it's allowed me to meet a lot of cool people, you know, and then even their manager there, Sean,

knows everything. John knows everybody and he he's introduced me to so many different people already, not only just in the local industry, but just, you know, throughout the industry as a whole. It's been a great unintentional networking opportunity because I'm going to claim ignorance on this here. Like, I didn't even know that, you know, Brian and I didn't even realize the connection between the Chicago Reptile House and NBC when I first like started approaching that. You know, we we knew that Brian was involved in both, but I really didn't fully understand the extent, I don't think.

Yeah. But to me, that's one of those falling into a good situation.

But it's because you stepped out and were willing to go do it and willing to clean the snake.

Oh, no. I pushed him.

Oh, yeah. She did. Yeah. I don't know if I want to do it. Mike, you will.

What were you saying about no good deed going unpunished, Jim? No. No, but I legitimately enjoy working there. I've learned a lot uh both in terms of like just about animal care from people that have been in a lot longer than we have and then also like I said, just the networking and connections that have been made through there. It's it's been great. Even though I'm only really over there, you know, probably less than 10 hours a week, it it's still, you know, it it's still a good opportunity, good connection to have.

Yeah. I I think getting out and being active in in whether it's the community, the industry, the hobby, whatever word that we want to say. Um I I it's a really easy story that I've told a bunch of times, but Dale, who's in the audience, he he was kind enough to to um let me vend one time with him. I I wasn't selling my stuff. I was selling his stuff. Just come to work uh for him one day. And uh it was a totally volunteer thing. It was Tampa, I think. I drove to Tampa just to vend with Dale and just the people I met that day. I mean, I have animals from um Steve Casino, from George MD still. The people I met at uh the dinner, the people that I saw coming up like today that I see like uh Justin at Morph Jungle just killing it. Like he was just like me like looking around the table at dinner one night, you know, like who are all these? I can't believe I'm here. But it was a great opportunity and it just came from like you say just I need to do something and I saw an opportunity and I asked and and also 10 other people told me no. They were like no you can't I don't know you can't come vend with me. So I'm not saying Dale will do that for anybody. Don't don't take it that way. But I am saying um you know find a way to get out there. Like you say the the unintended positive consequences are are amazing. Yeah. Uh and from Dale doing that. Yeah. When Sarah said, "Hey, would you, you know, you think I could vend with you?" I was like, "Yes, and we did that for me. By all means, come vend with me." kind of deal. So,

in both in both instances with both of us like working at the different reptile shops, it's been great, you know, just connections and getting involved in the community and just the hobby as a whole.

Yeah. I And I I think that that's the takeaway like just when because a lot of people ask me, you know, how do you get started? How do you meet all these people? I'm probably not going to do a podcast. And I'm like, go to shows. Go meet people. Shake hands. Learn.

Yeah. Literally just start talking to people. They look interesting. Go talk to them. Start a conversation.

Bring cookies.

That's right. Emily does bring the cookies.

All right, guys. Well, I want to wish you very very well this weekend. Um, I'm really interested. I I was hoping to go. I didn't quite get it all worked out. I will not be there that I know of. Maybe somebody will call me and say, "Come work." But I don't think that I'll be there this weekend. But um I wish you all very well and I'm excited to hear about your experience and I always appreciate how open um both on the show tonight but also just on our our our private conversations or semi-private in the Patreon how uh open you guys are. So I can't wait to hear your experience. I wish you the best. Is there any uh this will be the last question any uh level of like what what will define uh success this weekend? Is there what are you like setting out to do? What do you what do you need to get done?

Feel like if we get more followers on our Instagram page, it's going to be a fantastic weekend.

Yeah. Networking, getting our name out there. That's that's the whole goal. Like we're not even If we break even, cool. If we don't, Cool. It's It's really just getting our faces out there. Yeah. The experience, getting the brand out there.

Networking, marketing.

Well, good for you.

Just being there is a success. to be honest.

I was going to say like to our whole point a minute ago, just getting out in the middle of it is going to provide opportunities. So, who knows what happens, but uh good luck to you. I can't wait to hear about it. Uh sit tight in the green room for just a second. Audience, I want to say thank you all very much. Go check out Warrior Garden Exotics. Definitely on Instagram. You guys are on Morph Market now as well. Any other platforms? We we technically have a YouTube, but I'm going to be honest, we haven't posted anything on it since we rebranded, and I don't know what's going on with that moving forward. So, for all intents and purposes, it doesn't really exist. But yeah, Instagram market.

Okay, perfect. Well, guys, go uh go check them out. Give them a little bit of support. You know, a follow doesn't cost you anything. And uh it's a pretty cool pretty cool uh time for uh Jim and Emily. So, show them some love, guys. Thanks so much. I appreciate you sharing your story and I will talk to you soon. Audience, I will see you guys same place uh same time next uh Tuesday night 8:00 Eastern. Cheers everybody. Bye guys. Bye. [Music] [Music]