Transcription
If you don't have a space where your fans can all connect with each other, you're losing. If you don't have a space where you can connect with the fan, you can talk to them, you can text them, you can send them a newsletter, if you don't know how to reach your fan, you're losing. If you don't know how to send them things, share things with them, give them information, you've lost.
You've been around a lot of artists. You've helped a lot of artists create activations, marketing, and all that stuff, but I need you to talk about artists and there is this thing that we were talking about where there's eight things that you see in an artist for the public to understand and move or I believe there's the eight things for you to work with them.
It's It's eight It's eight things that that the artist needs to to have.
Okay.
Um Can we go through some of those?
Yeah, let's do it.
Cool. Um I have them here if you want. Do you You need I mean you know them, right?
Yeah, but you Please. And I'll And I'll expound. Where are you going to take expound?
thing you said is being uh is about authenticity and who are you?
Yep.
So, let's talk about that.
Um that that is the first thing because it's the most important. Um when you come out as an artist, that's the first piece of information unless you just kill it on your first song or whatever you have a Tik Tok uh viral hit, which makes a difference between an artist and a Tik Tok song, um is who Who are you?
Yeah.
Who is this person, right? And I think being able to express who you are is what really builds trust with people. Um I think being able to uh then express like what you're doing this for.
Right.
Is what builds loyalty with people.
Yep.
When they like can align with your with your reasoning, um but answering that why, like what your purpose is, is what really builds that longevity. So, if I take like um Jay-Z for example, like who he is, he is always marketing himself as a hustler. You know, that word meant a lot to us in in his time coming up and you could translate to that I'm somebody who works hard. I'm going to kill it. I can sell water to a whale. Like let's get it.
Hustle, baby.
That's who you are. Okay. I trust that. You know, I see that in you.
Yep.
What are you trying to sell me? What Okay, cool. You're a hustler. What what are you selling? What's the product? Well, Jay-Z's been selling the American dream to us for a long time even before he had it. He was talking about it. He was wishing for it. He started to get a little bit. He started making decisions to help him get closer to it. You know, prioritizing things like equity, teaching us how to dress, you know, making all the guys wear button-downs.
That was a crazy era.
It was crazy. You know, we were all wearing business casual.
Business the club, you know. [laughter] Wearing ties and [ __ ]
Absolutely. So, you're you're selling me the American dream.
over the button-up was wild times.
You were doing Were you doing it? Okay. We we bought what he was selling. So, now you're So, listen to this. Now it's true, right? You are a hustler. You can sell water to a whale. The water was the button-up to the club. We're the whale. We all started doing it. So, now I have my my loyalties to you because you you've been honest up until now. And I think the purpose of why he's done all this and why he's worked so hard and why he wanted to make the American dream attainable. His why is to say if you are a little boy who grew up in a project anywhere, you can be a billionaire.
Yeah.
Look at me.
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Inspiration.
we're, you know, we're still 20 years later going to see him at Roots Picnic. Like that that that authenticity and maintaining that authenticity and it being the the core and the foundation of who you are all the while I'm building this connection with you as an artist is the first and most important part of an artist brand. I don't give a [ __ ] what color your hair is if I don't know who you are, what you're trying to sell me and why.
Mhm. Mhm. That's how you So you actually go into like the second thing that you talk about in being purposeful. Why do you exist? Which is
Which is a different question.
Yeah.
Than why are you selling me?
[clears throat]
Um why do you exist? When I ask you that, like do you do you know what to say?
Me?
Yeah.
When I Why do I exist?
you exist?
It's interesting that you say that because I think probably more than ever before in my life I I understand my purpose and it's just to provide as much value as I can to a bunch of people in this I'm all about I didn't do well in school when it came to education, but I loved the thing that I loved when I was going to school, which was my communication technology technology class, which is film.
Yeah.
And so I was like, but there's got to be a different way to learn. I just didn't learn through that system. So I'm like, I know there's a lot of people like me. And I've come to realize with this podcast, even when I talked to people when I was just when I was only doing management, I love to give people information. And so I've come to realize at this point in my career in my life my purpose, at least I could say for today, is to provide as much value and information individuals similar to me. They don't even have to be similar to me, but they're just trying to find this info to figure out their path and their purpose in life when it comes to this music business stuff. That's my why.
That's perfect. That So, you you answered your why, but also you you exist to add value.
I exist to add value as much as I could possibly can.
as you can. Right? So, w- why an artist needs to understand if they exist to build community. You know, I think Lady Gaga exists to build community amongst the little monsters and everybody who's ever felt different. You are not alone, right? I think that um I think Janelle Monáe exists to um you know, uh inspire exploration.
Yeah.
Whether that be sexual, whether it be gender, whatever it is, right? You should feel free to explore. It doesn't matter what you choose, but I embody this um permission for you to go discover yourself.
Mhm.
Um I think that uh Michael Jackson exists to change the world. Nobody makes songs like Michael Jackson. Nobody has a song called Heal the World. Everyone's like
And it becomes
trying to heal their own relationship. Right? He was on a mission to say something that I say if enough people can hear it, maybe there'll be, you know, food for homeless people on the street, unhoused people on the street. Why do you exist? Not just your purpose, like what like what are you doing this for and why, but I think that clarity on why are you here on Earth as an artist making music. Everybody can't answer and I think it's an important question.
Yeah.
And then we go into the purpose part being like, what do you give a [ __ ] about?
Right.
I don't know very many artists who have made it for a long time and we don't understand what they care about. And some that have, we get to a point where we're like, you had opportunity to stand up for something and you didn't say anything.
And now I'm That's part of your brand.
And now I'm looking at you crazy because you don't stand for anything. That's important. So that's why we see celebrities like starting, you know, when they're starting to be philanthropists or when they're starting their nonprofits because what you care about, you creating the show is a part of your why.
Yeah.
If you exist to add value and you didn't have the show
Where's the exchange, yeah?
You know? So that um, you know, and because you care for people to receive value, you've created a way for them to get it.
Yeah.
You have to you have to understand why you're here and then you need to do something with it.
Yeah. [clears throat] I've always been and it comes back to me for and even for artists as well, it's like this job, yes, you you you do it because you want to be a singer and you love music, but at the end of the day I think many artists and people who get into this business they have to understand you're providing a service. It's the other human beings to feel seen. That's a service at the end of the day. So it's always important to think about what are you trying to service, right, as an artist? How That's how I think of it anyhow. Um which also for you this is the third thing that you talk about is is building community and how do you bring people together? Talk to me about that.
Um you you you don't have anything if you don't have the fans or I I I rather call it a community now, right? Um and I think it's the artist's job and the artist's team to provide a home for their community or you don't know where they live.
Right.
So and if you don't know where somebody live, you can't come to their house.
[laughter]
It's simple as that.
we going? I don't know.
I I don't I don't know you.
Who is Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So you know, I think it's
understand who you are, yeah.
It's very important then, you know to know who you're talking to and to provide a space for them to exist so they can talk to each other. You remember like a website like Kanye Twitter?
Yeah.
That that those kids being so obsessed with who Kanye is and resonating with who he was at that time, that created Brockhampton.
Right. That's right.
You know what I'm saying? And so you you you're creating this space just so people can get together, you know, because of you.
Mhm.
Rather than in spite of you, which is what like the internet is now. Like, yeah, I want to cancel you and talk [ __ ] on Twitter, but where is it safe to be a fan of you?
Mhm.
And for me to find someone who feels inspired as as much as I have by your music and to have someone to talk to, whatever the case is, whatever you're doing. Um, and we have so many more resources to do that now through, you know, Laylo community app, Substack, Instagram has broadcast channels, all these ways to say, oh, you you if you really [ __ ] with me, I will reward you. I will talk to you. I'm going to be a human being, not just a artist, a deity. That that's over. Let me This needs to be transactional.
Yeah, I
You love me and I love you back.
Right.
That's important now because fan fan culture has changed.
How's it changed?
Fan culture started as early as I can remember as uh fan clubs, right? So, I was in the NSYNC fan club. I love you. I have a address. I can write you a letter and spill out my heart about how much I think JC was really the lead of the group. And fold that letter up, put it in the mail. I send it to the address. I'm sure you got it because I wrote the address right. And I'm like, I'm in the fan club. I've received nothing back.
[laughter]
JC hasn't called me, but I know he got my letter and I feel connected.
Yeah.
Right? That's it. Cool. Then we get stan culture after that. Those are um followers. That's where That's when following began. I'm a M&M, you know, coined this. I'm a stan. I'm obsessed with you.
Yeah.
I don't want to write you a letter. I want to be on you, right? This is
[laughter]
Now it's crazy. This is um this is beehive. This is Rihanna Navy. I'm going to fight for you. This is the barbs. Nobody can say [ __ ] about you. Like that you got you.
These are stans. You can do no wrong. You ain't getting canceled. You We have built such a strong connection.
Anybody who says anything, I'm coming for your neck. Yeah.
I'm obsessed.
Yeah.
Dangerous, but real.
But real. Very real.
Then we move on. We have more resources. We have more opportunity. We have 50 times the amount of artists that we've ever had. And so now we have these new type of fans, which they are subscribers.
Okay.
A subscriber can check in, subscribe. And if I don't like what you're talking about, I don't like what you're doing, I don't like how you showed up to that, I don't like how you didn't say something, I'm subscribing.
I don't even have to unsubscribe. I just don't have to engage and it'll never show up on my algorithm again. But yeah, I'm going to unsubscribe.
I'm not locked I'm not locked in for life. I don't have a long-term connection with you. I don't even know you. But I like this song, so I was willing to tune in to see what else you got. I'm bored now. I like this other song. Unsubscribe. You got to do a lot more. JC didn't have to do anything to keep me locked in.
Just [laughter] had to show up on TRL.
I was an Nsync fan then, I'm an Nsync fan now. Nothing. You're a stan. There are barbs that started when they were 15 and they are riding at 35.
You think that changed because of all the access that we have? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
And and the lack of building the connection.
Right.
I don't I don't know how to write to my favorite artist right now.
In the DMs?
matter if I right. You know, and you ain't DMing me back. But if you have a broadcast channel, I feel like you you're talking to me. Everybody's so crazy. I know you're not talking to me, but like you're giving me rewards, you're giving me opportunities to have like access to exclusive events. Maybe I'm the first to know about something. It feels transactional. So in return for this connection or my love or me buying your album or listening, I feel like I'm getting something from you.
Yeah.
That's important to people now.
Yeah.
not it's when it changes it's going to be what I think is the future of fandom, which is brand ambassadors.
Okay, what is that? What do you What does that look like?
already happening.
Okay.
That's the That's what clipping is. That's what now your fans are like
Yeah, yeah.
an army in a different way.
Yes.
[laughter]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
The The same way that companies have brand ambassadors. They say, "Okay, yeah, go talk about our product. Go do this. Go that."
Totally.
People are making content about an artist's album. You You're paying people to sell a narrative. Who cares if the product's good or bad? The The brand ambassador The influencer got paid. They're like, "Yeah, this blush is amazing. I promise."
[laughter]
But it's true. Yeah, yeah.
But in music you need somebody to now make a video and be like, "Yeah, no, I think this album was awesome. They really put their heart into it. This is the You know, the evolution's been great." Maybe that changes some people's mind. Maybe it doesn't. Some This evolution of the fan and the the identity part, right? I don't want to skip that. I don't want to take too much time, but like
No, no, we got all the time in the world. Please.
The The fan thing has changed so much because people don't even really care about the artist. Like the at the point
No, like at the point that you right in between that subscribership and where it's going, we also had um this identity thing where it's like, "I'm a hot girl. I'm a city girl. I identify with this artist. I identify with what they're selling so much that like I can be that on occasion. I could be a 40-year-old mom and be like, "Yes, I'm I'm going out tonight. I'm being a city girl." You don't have to know none of the music. You don't have to have streamed the City Girls album. You don't have to buy [clears throat] no merch. Right. This uh colloquialism or just whatever this thing is that we're saying, you can identify with.
It's penetrated the culture. Yeah.
And it's not real. It's fickle, I'll say, because you you've not created any real space for that person to come and say, "What am I actually identifying with?"
So So how does an artist do that in this day and age?
So Well, now there's so many ways, right? I Like I said, if you don't have a space where your fans can all connect with each other, you're losing. If you don't have a space where you can connect with the fan, you can talk to them, you can text them, you can send them a newsletter, if you don't know how to reach your fan, you're losing. If you don't know how to send them things, share things with them, give them information, you've lost.
Yeah.
It if you you it's it's up to you to create a space, and it's even little things, too, right? Communities have rules.
Mhm.
Like you need to know you're running a community, right? So, you know, the Hot Girls, I've seen them get crazy before when people were like, you know, Meg's fans, and I've also seen her tweet like, "We don't do that."
Okay.
If you if you're a if you're a Hot Girl, you're a fan of Megan Thee Stallion, we don't disrespect You know, like having having those boundaries
Yeah.
makes people feel like, "Okay, like Okay, mother mother has spoken. My bad." [laughter] That's how that that's not even about where they're at. It's about like you you know you really have a relationship with the fan, and if they understand they're a part of something bigger than just you when you can talk to them like that. Naming your fans.
Yeah, that's a big one.
Don't leave your fans without a name. I know this seems like old school, but this will never die.
That's a real thing.
They know what to call you, you don't know what to call them. You can't You're not talking to nobody. You can't address them.
Yeah.
And nobody wants to be called a fan.
That's That's That's what I was thinking as well when we were talking about this. You don't want to be called a fan. And
Cuz they're not fans anymore. They will leave your ass in the dust.
they're your people.
So you are you are essentially just building a community in in all in the smallest way of making sure that you that you name them to the biggest way of making sure that you can communicate with them.
Yeah.
And I think, you know, LaRussell um is one of the best examples of creating a community and why it's important. It's because now we have all these resources, but it's too many. Your fans are all over the place, and he built through even that platform
Yeah.
an ecosystem where he can do everything you do on Instagram, everything you do on the DSPs, which I consider social media as well, everything you can do on all these different apps in one place.
Mhm.
And so if Instagram shuts down or I say some [ __ ] um that wasn't the right thing to say on on one of my songs and y'all canceling me on Instagram, I can shut this down.
Yeah, I don't need to be here.
And I'm going to go talk to these people that live over here.
half a million people over here in my community and ecosystem.
And I can not only talk to them, I can give them music, I can sell them merch, I can show them content, I can do everything it takes y'all 10 platforms to do right here in this home I built. And And I feel safe as an artist
Yeah.
and they feel safe as my community saying, "We got your back. And you don't ever have to stop your career
Yeah.
because you've built an ecosystem where it can live in. That is like the final boss of building community.
How [laughter] How early should an artist and their team start be thinking about this?
Today.
Okay, so this is the thing where artists as well I think have a difficult time in this day and age but in no no fault it's not their fault I either I don't think so it's because it's a lot. Building your artist community, being a recording artist, working on your performing on your live show, doing content,
Yeah.
Tik Tok like
it's so hard. Yeah.
It's a lot.
It's so much.
It's a lot.
Yeah.
So how does a team then help?
It is. I'm in with it's always been a job.
It's hard.
Yeah. So how do so how do does the um the team around the artist help in facilitating these things?
with all of this.
Yeah.
I help you. You know, my my job it as someone who oversees a the marketing team and and is PM to some artists, that that authenticity thing we're talking about, you might have it, but I still need to help you translate it. Your A&R still needs to go find you, you know, help you find a song that says, "Oh, this yes, this feels presidential. This feels like hustler music. This is This is why we should name the album this." You I'm supposed to help if I get who you are, right? Um I'm supposed to help translate that. Um I I love Ashonna Ayers um her her story with Jeezy and the snowman t-shirts is one of my favorite, you know, that goes down in marketing history.
I don't know I mean I know I know the shirt but I don't know the story.
Oh it was a a woman a name Ashonna who's fantastic and worked at Def Jam. Um you know, it was it was her idea to to put the snowman, you know, Jeezy sang it in the song I'm snowman whatever, to put it on the shirts and go pass them out to every single person that we could. This is
Show them the hood, yeah.
You know, and now it's it's going as far as you know, now it's banned out the schools cuz the kids can't wear them to school and then you get to make a mixtape called can't ban the snowman. And now this one idea has helped him translate this like nickname that he's had in for himself into a a legacy. You know, that's your partner's job to really help bring your authenticity to life, right? Um it's it's your partner's job to say, "Hey, what do you care about? Okay, this is how we can start your nonprofit." Okay, Summer, you care about black women, um you know, business owners. Okay, every day on the last day of summer, we're going to build this directory where you can put on all of the black women businesses and people can go look them up and for this one day, which you also got a proclamation for in the city, you help push them forward because that's what you said you care about. That's my job, build the community. I'm not asking you to get on the even and put the whole Excuse me, put the whole platform together yourself. I can help you.
Yeah.
But black when the album's about to come out, I need you to get in that community chat and talk to your fans.
Right.
I can't do it for you. I could try, but let's not be inauthentic. Get in there for the And he's the best example cuz he has been building community since day one. He has a Twitter chat group of people who have grown with him for the last 10 years that he still had that he used to meet up and get coffee with when he was in their city.
Really? Wow, okay.
And now they are
diehards, yeah.
what I'm saying? So, it's it's your partner's job to help amplify. It's your partner's job to help, you know, come up with ideas to help make sure you translate who you are and everything that you're about into things that are tangible. But it's just a hard job.
My job's hard.
Yeah.
I
[laughter]
Let's work Let's do our hard job together. It's a lot, but it's going to change your life.