Alex Hormozi Mastermind June (1-Day Recordings)

You guys got the email uh beforehand with what you should introduce yourself with. So, who would like to start? We can start on this side of the side. All right, it's you. Go for it.

Um, I'm Joshua Smith. I'm the co-founder of the School of Hard Knocks with these guys right here. We have a media brand where we interview entrepreneurs all across the country. People like Mark Cuban, president of Nike, stuff like that. And uh, on June in June, we launched our school community where we pretty much offer uh the ability for our members to introduce themselves and connect with the members of uh or the people that we interview. So they get to connect with the people we interview. We have live calls with like the millionaires that we interview, ask them questions, exclusive training, stuff like that. And uh, yeah.

>> Well, awesome.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

I'm Jack Dumlan, another co-founder of the School of Hard Knocks with these guys right here. Like Josh said, go around interviewing millionaires across the country wanting to deliver that knowledge and expertise to the world. Um, launched our school community in June. Uh, where, you know, in addition to the live calls, we also have like online master classes as well as like our community chat. And, uh, one of the big things that we really want to get kind of out of this event is to be able to figure out how we can convert more of our audience members over into community members uh, onto our school community. Um, given like our audience size, we have a pretty substantial audience on every social media platform and would love to figure out how we can convert more of those people over as well as reduce the turn rate in our community since we launched two months ago. Um, already starting to see kind of like that first initial churn and would love to try to be able to reduce that as well. Some fun things that we do is we're all based in Austin, Texas. So, we go out to Zilker Park, uh, play some volleyball, um, you know, go down to Sixth Street, and, uh, honestly, just love connecting with other, you know, high-level people in the Austin area. It's a great, it's a great place.

>> Yeah. And I'll I'll piggyback just for everybody. Uh, just give the two big things you want to get out of the event, name, and what your community is about.

>> Awesome.

James Dulan, part of the the School of Hard Knocks team, so I think he touched on the the things that we want to get out of it. Exactly.

>> Rock and roll.

I'm Bill Von Fumedi. This is my wife, Elizabeth. We're from Manhattan Beach, California, right by Los Angeles. And we help people start and grow bookkeeping businesses. So, really sexy stuff over here. Um, and uh, so we we have like a high ticket like 5K offer. That's our main offer. But what we found is like the school community is a really good opportunity for us to for people who don't say yes to that offer to take that next step, get a little further ingrained in this world and then sell them back up into the 5K offer. So what we're looking to get out of this is number one um steps to take to make our um business more of a sellable asset considering I'm like the face of the business. Also bookkeeping is an industry that is undergoing some change considering technology advances. And then number two, um I feel like since I work with a lot of small business owners, like the my students have businesses and they have clients and I feel like there's additional revenue opportunities beyond the coaching and mentorship that I do um to maybe take equity shares in in what they do.

Hi everybody. I'm Mateo from Italy and um with our community this the mastermind school we uh teach how to create and scale agency and consulting business in the Italian market and the first thing I want to learn it's about team building because we want to scale a lot so uh in your opinion what's the best team we can build like uh which member and the role and the expectation to set to all the team and the second things it's that we are now the first um community in Italy won the games so a lot of people start asking us like can you teach me how to use school in Italy and um I don't have school I want to integrate in my agency fun of this so I don't know if it's a good idea start teaching school in Italy integrate with what we do now.

It's my turn. I'm Allesandro M's partner and the committee is the same. So yeah, basically what I want to learn is uh I do know the difference between the woman in the red dress, shiny object syndrome and like a big opportunity to catch.

>> Yeah. Because like I had a decision recently that was to switch from teaching agencies from like for myself to al Mateo to do in the Italian market like to do growth operating for Mato and like the decision I need to make is to either to go big on growth operating or go back to agencies and which one to know like is the best or if I'm just you know like catching the one in the red dress.

>> Woman of the red dress.

>> Yeah.

Hi guys. Sam Roland from Hungary and um I have been in the consulting like business consulting at high get coaching stuff for years but so I kind of have like a little name in the Hungarian market and then with school we just transitioned into like uh reaching out to influencers and becoming uh inert experts in Hungary and becoming growth partners with them and now it's a different model because we kind of like an agency/portfolio company and my biggest challenge is should I um so I start to work with someone in the first 12 weeks I use my team just to launch everything the webinars and school and stuff but I don't know if I should build my team and work with everyone or build teams for them individually because I'm working with a lot of like influencer experts right now.

>> That's my biggest challenge like internal team or

>> yeah it's centralized versus decentralized.

>> Okay.

Um, hi, I'm Mel. I am the business manager for Forex for Women. Um, I'm here with the the founders of the business. Um, our company is obviously Forex Women. We teach um and mentor women how to trade in the financial markets. Um, and the two things that I definitely want to get out of today is we want to enter the world of paid ads. We've grown the business organically up until this point. Um, and just community guidance and flow of um how people come in and work through our classrooms and all that kind of stuff in the community.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, hi, I'm Gemma. I'm here from New Zealand and I'm a co-founder of Forex for Women. I'm so excited today just to learn everything, but like Mel said, we've done everything organic up to this point. So, paid ads, growth strategies, social media. Um, those are kind of the top things we'd like to get out of today. Just scaling those in a way that's going to reach our target audience because we're in the beginning phase. You know, we help women get into Forex in a simple way that's accessible to the everyday person. So, kind of that target there.

I'm Jen. I am also founder of Forex for Women. Um, I'm just so excited to be here to learn from everybody. Like, I look at all these amazing people in this room and I'm like, we can learn so much from each one of you. And I think what I'd really love to do is learn how to go from where we are to just scaling massively. Um, and I think that a lot of that is covered up there already.

>> Yeah.

>> My name is Amanda, third co-founder of Forex for Women. uh I take on the educ education piece where I teach the actual strategies of how women can access these markets. Um, yeah, a lot of our growth has been me showing up on TikTok and just speaking my truth and sharing the journey and getting other women excited about learning something that they otherwise would have been intimidated to come and learn. Um, so for me, I would love to learn more about how to um, tailor my social media to our target audience. I've been mostly mom having fun living life. So, I'm kind of wondering, do I continue down that path or do I start to show up in a studio in a professional manner? Just kind of go back and forth on that. So, I'm really excited to learn a lot more about how to continue or our organic growth and scale it.

Cool. Uh, my name is Steven Pope. I'm in the content machine niche. Uh, I sell a technology and coaching product that helps people scale their content creation, production, and distribution. And um, and I recently launched the school site which helps people essentially kind of build a tech and coaching kind of offer. And that's the uh, no code architects. Um, one thing I'd like to learn today is just like how do I get into um, how can I get myself a setter and someone that can help me do all the follow-up? That's something that basically is like a big hole in the business. And then um, I've always thought about doing ads. Every time I do it, I kind of get burnt. And so should I just keep doing the YouTube thing and the Tik Tok thing which is working really well or um, because every time I do try I get burned on the ads and then my organic suffers. So just maybe I should just keep with the organic or is there a way that I could do it?

>> There is a way.

My name is Andrew Kirby. I work at school. I just wanted to say congrats to you guys. A lot of massive businesses here. So lots to learn from all of you guys.

>> Thank you.

Hi, I'm Jamie Contraano or Jamc on the internet. Um, I help I'm the founder of the Rising Wolf, which essentially helps online essentially more female focused online ureneurs uh scale their businesses to 100K months. Basically, I'm in the business of making millionaires, which is really really fun. Um, so I help them through wealth mindset. We do a lot of reprogramming, a lot of uh wealth expansion, online course creation, social media, and um, essentially helping them with uh building their companies. Um, I'm really excited to be here, excited to learn from other high-level entrepreneurs. So, thank you and thank you for hosting this and thank you for the opportunity. Uh, I think I'm most excited um from probably lead generation. I do a lot of social organic um also ads. So all both has been very very successful. I'm just excited to learn other avenues of attracting and leading them into the funnel of learning more. So that's essentially it. So thank you.

>> Hi, I'm Bridget. I work with Jamie and I'm here to learn all the things.

>> She's like period.

>> I'm grateful to be here. This is awesome.

>> Uh, my name is Cal. I'm an operator. I work with a lot of different creators and influencers and help them monetize their audience. My main route in helping them monetize has always been through school. I'm here with the credit brothers here who won the school games in June obviously. And um, as far as what I'm looking to learn, I may double dip and act like it's for the credit club. Um, but no, I'm joking. But it's already on the board. So uh learning how to scale for one obviously, but then also um audience conversion at the very top when you're dealing with a massive massive audience that may not be as engaged because of the size of it. Um, and then also conversion is different on different platforms. So like how can you convert an audience on Tik Tok versus an audience on Instagram?

>> So many thoughts about the statement you made.

>> But yes, what was the last question though?

>> Um, the LA it's all on there.

>> Okay. I think you said Tik Tok. It was a Tik Tok version of those

>> audience conversion like the difference between trying to convert an audience versus on Tik Tok.

>> Very different conversion.

>> Very good. This is big and small audience. Sorry.

>> Uh, I'm John. Um, I'm also working with the Credit Brothers. Um, two things I really want to get out of this is one um how to really push and incentivize engagement within the community. Um, and then also just reducing churn overall.

All right.

>> What's up, guys? Uh, I'm Josh. Alongside me is my brother Chris together with the Credit Brothers. So, we help people repair, build, and use their credit to do awesome stuff. Travel the world for free, fund their business, um, and basically just get what they want for the banks. Pretty cool. So, in June, we launched our credit club. It's basically doing all of that but in a community setting, live coaching calls, you know, standard. So, one big thing I really want to get out of this event is I want to understand how a low ticket monthly reoccurring community can be used to create a higher ticket offer uh through leveraging that community um through various strategies for example like market research and and and basically go from the low ticket to the high ticket um and things that we like to do for fun. So, we also live in Austin, Texas alongside the school of Hard Knox boys. We've actually hung out with him many times and done some fun stuff. So, what I like to do, I like to mess around with Ninja Creamy Recipes. Love a good protein ice cream. Absolutely fantastic. My mint chalky chip. It's S tier. And

>> what?

>> S tier.

>> S tier. It's better than a

>> Is that a Jinzy thing?

>> Okay. I say I say no cuz I played Sonic growing up on the Gamecube and if you like mastered a level like absolutely mastered it you got an S rating instead of an A. So I think it's I think it's an old school start but different conversation.

All right. And uh, Chris I guess introduce yourself a little bit too.

>> Awesome. So I'm Chris. some of the other other half of the credit brothers. And uh, one of the main things that we did for our community a little bit different than maybe some of your guys' is we actually transitioned uh previous program called the inner circle which was medium ticket lifetime access with two launches a year. We transitioned that into quarterly launches with a low ticket membership. So a little of that is hey we were charging you know thousand2,000 for that versus 40 $50 a month. Uh, and so kind of figuring out how to get more market there. But I guess one thing that I would definitely want to learn is again like obviously we all want to grow our audience and understanding we have a huge audience on Tik Tok. Tik Tok's seems impossible to convert on versus Instagram. But as far as inside the community itself, like how to actually create challenges in the best way possible, whether that's is that a monetary, is that a uh one-on-one, is that uh get access to something behind a payw wall. like what incentivized people to do a challenge and is there a right way and a wrong way to go about challenges that could actually hurt the actual uh authenticity of the community.

Have you guys modeled out um I don't know if you attend the the weekly calls that we do Kirby and I wherever you're at Kirby there there you are. Um, have you guys modeled out just like um earnings per click?

>> We have not.

>> Yeah, worth doing between the two models because it's really just conversion rate times price and then then it's volume of conversions. Sorry, volume of clicks because if you can do it four times a year versus twice a year, uh, are you getting more people in versus not basically just which one makes you more money?

>> Yeah.

>> Return on effort, right? It's you can model like the nice thing with that is you can just you can find the answer. It's not like I'm not like you can just do the math and find the answer since you've already done both.

>> There's also the aspect of like the pre prior program was called the inner circle. Now it's called a credit club.

>> Yeah.

>> We tell people it's the exact same thing which it innately is but the perception might be lower because people are like oh I want to join inner circle which we

>> against popular belief when you close it it's actually closed like zero exception. So we were able to use that scarcity year and year know launch after launch versus now

>> even though it's a lower price like

>> people might have this perception of oh it's not as good.

>> Yeah, understood.

>> Gotcha. Yeah.

So my name is Z. This is my business partner Elias. So we run a business right now called the coaching solution. We basically help people start coaching businesses. And three things I want to get from the event is I want to learn how to grow our content more, improve our offer so we can start charging more as well and also build like a strong reputation and personal brand so that we almost like mythologize ourselves in the market and for fun well I pretty much just do business to be honest.

Um, my name's Rachel. I'm with the um these guys are the co-founders. So I'll let them explain their business. But what I'm looking to get out of it is um how to build a mission so big that your customers basically tell their mom about it and want to be a part of it.

>> That's what you want to find out about.

>> Yeah, I just like about it.

>> So I just wanted to make sure I got

>> there is.

All right. My name is Tim. That is my business partner, Julion. We run a company where we basically help life insurance agents make more money in their business.

>> Correct.

>> Six figures was the target. Um, and basically with our model, it kind of works in a way where we get the opportunity to hire them and then if they are under us, we make like a percentage of their sales. The only downside is there's like some risk that comes with that when they are under us. We're trying to figure out how to integrate that into like legal risk,

>> the high ticket offer.

>> Uh, kind of like financial risk because if basically how much do you know about insurance like the

>> I own an insurance company.

>> Okay, so probably a lot. Um, like actually surprisingly little, but keep going.

>> Okay. U with chargebacks, like if someone doesn't pay their premium, the insurance agent loses their commission

>> and then if they don't pay that money back,

>> we can be responsible for paying it. Yeah. So, it's like roll up. Exactly.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. They're trying to figure out how to integrate that in. At what point we should

>> What kind of insurance do that life insurance

>> just term?

>> Um mainly

>> whole life. Got it. I want a whole life insurance company. We don't have that issue at all. So it might be how you're selling it.

>> What's it's the clientele

>> might be who you're selling it to.

>> Yeah.

>> So I'm Julian.

>> So what was the what was the thing you wanted to get? How how to not have chargebacks? What was it?

>> No, it was basically like how like so we have this high ticket offer that's like the school community basically and then we get a bunch of traffic of life insurance agents that they're like they literally ask to work with us.

>> Sure. But we're trying to figure out like is that a separate business? Is that part of our business? At what point does that kind of integrate? And how should we

>> I think it's totally So I'll get to yours. Yeah, sure.

>> Uh insurance school integration.

>> All right. It's a cool business.

>> Thank you.

>> Obviously, I like it.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm uh I'm Julian. I'm obviously the business partner of Tim. We do the the life insurance agent stuff. biggest thing I'm looking for out of this event is how can we make our offer like grand slam level just like so irrefusable like and just to the point where they can't commoditize us at all. I don't want to be compared to the other products because they're subpar and I've tried them so I know that's the biggest thing I'm looking for is like how we can just stand out with a grand slam offer that keeps us from not being compared ever again.

>> I can answer your question right now. Yeah, it you stand out with proof, not promise.

>> Anyone can copy your offer. They can't copy your proof.

>> Check that one off.

>> Yeah.

All right, guys. You have a good one.

>> Yeah, it's been a great start.

U My name is Talent. I'm business partners with Jack. We run a home service business where we do power washing and garage floor coating.

>> Cool.

>> Full disclosure, I didn't even know what school was like a month ago. So, this is Jack's gig, but helping him and helping some of the people in his community. Uh, I'm looking forward to learning more about operations to bring back to my team and then using that to help Jack's community with uh what he's doing and just being surrounded by other high performers. There's not a lot of those in central Illinois that I've found yet, so it's cool.

And I'm Jack. Uh, we'd like to do paid ads essentially for other floor coders, help them with sales on

>> and it would be nice to learn how to actually teach people like a frame of how you teach people through all your videos there

>> and then essentially how much complexity should we eat like call centers for the leads.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. All that

>> heads for flooring or something.

>> Yeah. Floor cutings like epoxy flake and all that. Garages residential. Cool.

You ever shoot anything? Everybody know Sam.

>> I'm Sam.

>> What do you do for fun?

>> Um, well, beekeeping. And we just got some chickens.

>> How silly.

>> Yeah.

>> Rock and roll.

My name is Ted and I help Sam make school a little bit better every day.

>> Did you change your hair?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> And he only eats fruit

>> now

>> for 15 years.

>> Oh, seriously?

>> Look how much bananas he's got for lunch.

>> Like at all? Like you're a futarian entirely?

>> I've been precaring for 15 years.

>> No [ __ ]

>> He will eat that today.

>> Dude, you look great for 60. [Laughter]

>> I swear like I think the best like beauty hack in the world is just tell everyone you're 10 years older. People like you look amazing.

>> How old are you now?

>> I already 34. 34. Yeah. Interesting. Fruititarian. That's wild. Jesse does like the first half of his day with that, I think.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sweet. All right.

Um, I forgot to do this. I get asked to do this because I just get straight into things. But one more time, congratulations. Everybody forgetting here. Like

>> I tend to want to go immediately into business stuff. Like our own team's like we set a record and I'm like right anyway. So like let's what like everything's you know not as good as it should be. Uh, we don't deserve this record. Uh um, but yeah. So let's um I feel like we hammered the crap out of churn at our last one. Um, I feel like conversion seemed like a little bit of a like audience conversion, low ticket to high ticket challenges. Um, we can probably start there. Do you have strong feelings

>> about

>> where we're going to start?

>> Low ticket to high ticket.

>> We can start there.

>> Low ticket.

>> What do you want to do first? The audience to audience conversion or low ticket to high ticket? I think we start here and then we can go there.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Audience conversion seems

>> bigger for more people.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Cool.

So, this is our extremely official way of how we pick what thing we're going to go over. Uh, it's a scientific method. I don't want to get into the specific. There's an algorithm behind it. No. And just to be clear, we keep it super like Sam and have had a ton of talks about this. We're like we could just get up and like show slides or we could whatever. But purposely like with the smaller the room, the more flexible your structure. Like if you have a 10,000 person event, every second is dialed. If you have a 50, you know, 10 15 people or businesses here, like we can keep it about whatever you guys want to make it about. So I think it's what's kept this cool and kept every one of them like very different was that we didn't come in with like any plan. Like no plan is the plan. Um, all right, cool. I'm just going to keep moving this chair all day. All right, so audience conversion. So, who here has done anything that's been that they've seen that gave them a lift in their audience conversion across any platform?

And is this to free or paid? Who who asked about this?

>> I we both did. Um, do you guys want to focus on organic? I assume so, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Yeah.

>> And were you meaning to free members or

>> paid members?

>> Yeah, it's a low ticket. So, we started at 30 for the first thousand and then we switched to 37 after a,000.

>> Did your conver? Um, I think what what happened is like the big driver for us especially when we got closer to a thousand was the urgency and we also had a special like uh opening offer like a founders offer like the first thousand.

>> Um, and then I'd say like the conversion rate or I guess maybe like the hype has died down a decent amount.

>> How big's the audience?

>> 6.5 million.

>> Okay. So big. Yeah. Um, yeah, I was thinking about this recently like depending on the size of the audience I think it changes. Like when you've got a big audience, I think you can go straight to paid,

>> but if you've got a smaller one, I think it makes sense to go to a free group first.

>> Yeah. So maybe we should talk about the two things separately. Like

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So I'll I'll give my two cents real quick and then I want to open it up. Um

>> if you think about like

>> free to paid is the most efficient way to monetize the audience. It just creates more operational complexity. And so if you have six and a half million people, you probably can't take a gazillion set calls. If you've got a 50,000 person audience, then you want to take as many set calls as you possibly can to sell people into your thing. And so I think it's really just thinking about it like where do you have more operational leverage. And so that's how some people who do have 50,000 100,000 person communities are doing the same amount of monthly revenue as you guys is because they have a more efficient way of monetizing. And so I'll say personally, I prefer to set up the most efficient way to monetize and then let tiny amounts of my audience know and then slowly just like rape and pillage the whole thing. That makes sense. Sorry. Reap maximally rape. Use the wrong word. You get the idea. Calm down. Yeah. Yeah. The pendulum swinging back. We're okay. Um, so okay. So that's that's that's kind of like what I see as like big picture is that free is the highest efficiency uh in terms of audience percentage audience conversion.

>> I've got some stats on that too by the way.

>> Yeah, go for it. So this is AC this is like platformwide not like obviously it can vary a lot depending on community but on average free groups convert on the about page at 10% and paid is two but some paid groups I've seen at 5% and some free groups I've seen at 80. So obviously it can move around a lot but in general free is converting members way higher. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So it's 5x and so then the question is what percentage of free people do you convert into paid because the point is not to get a really big free community it's to get a big paid community right um and so like max person was here last week or whatever Jesus last month um and they're converting about 10% or no they were doing were they 6.7 is that what it was when we did the math live I feel like it was like just I think it was 6.7's in my head we're going with 6.7 and so but they were only doing one of the four conversion methods and so there's four ways you convert from free to paid and they were only doing one of them still at almost 7%. And so I and I think they were closing like 80% of calls they were getting on which to me sounds like they're mispriced and they should go up in price. And so like that's basically your math. So if you and this is especially important for people running ads like if you can run ads and get $2 to $4 group ads and know that you can convert one out of 10 that means you're making $40 sales. You're usually going to pay more for that, more for a straight sale on ads than doing free and then having the conversion event, which then means that the actual bottleneck of the business will be on your ability to handle those sales calls. And for context, like I come from an industry where people meet face to face to sell $10 a month memberships. So like I don't care about people's complaints um about selling stuff that for too low ticket, especially if you're not like making the amount of money that you want to make. So free on average converts at 5x uh versus paid and s's got a bunch of really good stats I'll probably drop in today. Um, anyone doing anything though that has helped their audience conversion either on the paid side or on the organic side that has worked well for them? Yeah, shoot.

>> Uh, yes for us uh we are working with a lot of influencers and for us we are going exclusively webinars. It works extremely well and as you are always saying that you should u Q&A in your free group weekly but we just uh we have the people in the school group but we also run ads to this uh Q&A as a webinar. So we are putting people from outside if they don't want to register the school group they can come to the Q&A as a webinar.

>> Is the webinar you're running for your school group a free group?

>> Uh, yes, but this is separately. So it's inside the

>> I like it,

>> but yeah, I just run it as a webinar and with people who has audiences, this converts really well.

>> I think it's really good. So I'm going to say that because it's really subtle. So he's got the group and one of the four conversion mechanisms is that you do a weekly, you know, Q&A webinar or semi-presentation, then you soft toss the paid group. And so you have your free group. So there's no real payw wall between the free group and traffic that's going to the webinar. So, I feel ethically fine about having both audiences there, but I love the double dip. And if people are in your audience, it feels like it's a warmer audience cuz they're talking to the people who are like truly cold from ads. And so, they're like, "Oh, this guy's awesome. He's great." And then when the buyer comes in from cold traffic and sees a non-buyer who just likes you but doesn't buy [ __ ] It's like the likes you but doesn't buy [ __ ] converts to I will buy stuff even though I'm cold on that webinar. I really like that. That's really good. And we have run like I don't know like 200 plus webinars last year with like 30,000 plus plus people live and it was just every month we had like thousands of people the email list group and on the thank you page of if you guys are doing webinar optins on the thank you page just do the school group. So you know I just opt into the webinar and then on the thank you page join our free school group so you can pitch so you can get like three three things together. You can get an email, you can get the school entry, and you can get someone for the dude. I really like this a lot.

>> Thank you.

>> For a number of reasons.

So, we're we're not doing a free group at all. We're just I mean, if you've got a banger webinar or like live virtual event, which is what we do, it's like straight to paid and like we convert like 20%.

>> Yeah. Oh, don't me wrong. Like, by all means, sell the [ __ ] out of any whatever you want. I was I'm not

>> Is the live virtual event free?

>> It is not. It's a paid version. It's a paid event and it's

>> nothing is free.

>> Nothing is free and it's driven by paid traffic. 100% paid traffic.

>> So, I'll go alternative version.

>> But the reason I like this a lot um the model that you're saying is that this is really easy to understand. Like you run ads to a webinar >> on that webinar the thank you p like the thank you page gets people into the free group. So you're you're building your group up but getting them to attend basically a group onboarding fundamentally. And then on your weekly webinar which you have already choreographed and whatever you p that's the only actually now that I say that's the only thing that would it's like I'd probably want that webinar to be more pitch and less

>> was it just a Q&A. I know we usually we set a topic because that's what we've seen for like 45 minutes we talk about so it's not like not exactly like a Q&A for like 45 minutes we talk about a topic but just you know casually I don't know if I talk about for example pays in my in my free group and then for 45 minutes I do like a little speech and then the last 15 30 minutes is just the pitch I show them the I I just share my screen I show them the paid group and also it's really good for trust building because when somebody optins for the webinar Then I get their email address so I can do remarketing gets for uh join the school group and they get in the group they see a lot of testimonials there. So so it's just so easy to build trust in a really short time until the webinar. So

>> so you do basically a a webinar training every week for your free community but you use it as an alternative path into the free community.

>> Yeah. Kind of. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I like it a lot.

>> We do that too but through a Facebook group.

>> Yeah.

>> You'd run ads to it? No. Or organic?

>> I'm saying you could run ads.

>> But now we definitely

>> I don't think Facebook lets you run ads to Facebook groups.

>> They don't.

>> But they let you run them. Oh, they changed it.

>> They didn't for a long time, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. I just like this cuz it's so I like really elegant like we drive everything to one point. This point's been optimized. It converts the huge percent. We have fallback where we still build out the the school community. Hey guys, Reddit bros. Um, okay. Anybody else have things that added for conversion? Yes,

this might be uh very elementary, but just from a messaging standpoint, I think when we build out communities and we start to see what people love inside the communities, we uh confuse the reason they bought versus the reason that they stay.

>> Totally.

>> And with the messaging, you always want to talk about the reason that they buy. like the one thing that they want versus all the amazing things about your community. Um, so just switching from talking about like you're going to be surrounded by like-minded people and blah blah blah blah versus just you're going to get your credit score to 800, right? Like that one thing that they want versus all the amazing things that they're going to find inside. switching the messaging to talk about just that one thing versus the overall concept uh really helps with the conversion for for us which is very basic but it was uh you guys can write this down if you look at your own about pages if you can't clearly see proof promise plan like make it clearer like what's the big promise what's the proof that I know that I can deliver it okay fine I believe you what is the plan there's five steps that we're going to take you through and that's how we're going to deliver this in this time period

and then I had a thought or more a question on what Sam said earlier. Is it the right time to mention it?

>> Yeah, this is

>> cool. Sam, I know earlier you said that like it switches, right? When you're dealing with a smaller audience, you should go direct to paid. Then if you're dealing with a bigger audience, that's when a uh or the opposite, smaller audience, free, bigger audience, direct to paid. I've been feeling like it switches back like when you reach a level of an even bigger audience because then there's like a learning curve for the mainstream society to get into e-learning in specific like they're not used to being on any type of e-learning platforms or school or anything of that nature. So pushing them into a free community kind of eliminates that learning curve. I'm curious if that's something that's just in my head when you're dealing with like over 50 million for example um with an audience size or if you still think it should go just direct to pay.

Um, in your specific case that I know we're talking about but not using the words um I think the messaging needs to just change before we assume that it has to go to free. I mean, if if we can keep trying some different messaging and it doesn't work, then sure, maybe it's true. You need to go to free. But I'm pretty sure it's just the messaging.

Yeah. So, something that's helped me a lot is um trying trying not to come up with rules and more like guidelines, which is fundamentally people need a certain amount of decision to buy. And so, when you have a lay down sale, that person needs less information to buy. And if you have a really hard sale, means that person needs more information to buy. So it's not like is this better or like what is the what is the answer? It's just to what extent. Um, and so if you have a colder audience then you would need to have something that they all have in common. And so I think we were talking some you were saying earlier about the engagement thing with a bigger audience there the engagement is lower. I don't think that that's a rule. I think there are some very large very engaged audiences. Um, there are also some very large very not engaged audiences. And so I think that comes very much to how you build the brand which is what you were asking about. So, like when you do just if I go and just slap people in public, I'm going to build a big audience, but does the thing that I'm associating with correlate with a high degree of purchasing power or value? Probably not. Because now I'm basically just an entertainer and really I should just be selling tickets to my show, right? And so it's like whereas I mean I've I've told the story on my own content but like when I saw a girl who had 5,800 people in her following doing a million dollars a year and she was doing it poorly uh and could be doing 5 million a year in her business with 5,800 followers. It really challenged a lot of my own beliefs around this is that one 100% of her 5800 followers are registered dietitians who want to learn how to bill insurance better because that's the only thing she [ __ ] talks about. She doesn't make any content about her dog. She doesn't show anything about her life. She just is like in section code four, if you do one of these, you can get this and this doubles how much you bill per hour. People are like, "This is great." And then they just click and buy. Like they're like, "Oh my god, that that one thing made me more money." And so I think the issue that large audiences have actually comes down to the creator. And I mean like I fall into this trap too, which is why, you know, I course corrected and went back to business. But like if you keep going for more and more views and you get more and more subscribers, you get addicted to that loop because it's a positive feedback loop and you have to do that in the beginning just to like figure out what the [ __ ] going on. But like there's always these periods of like take like of taking like pruning the tree and saying like, okay, what things actually bring the type of person I want in my business? And it's okay for me to get fewer followers and fewer views if I get more of the right person. And I think that's like it's the density of how many people in your audience are a good fit for whatever the thing that you're teaching is. So of all the 6.5 million people who are following your stuff, I don't like I'm just I'm talk like I don't know how many of them um I mean yours is pretty okay. I think we could talk more about how you can convert more, but like there are some audiences I'm sure that you've seen that are just super half entertainment half like they're not really educators and trying to sell an education product.

The other thing I'm curious about on this topic, and this is uh when when I'm dealing specifically organic, right? Like not trying to go paid ads by any means. I've always went with a launch model because when it comes to like the audience that I'm working with and specifically because it's organic, I always felt like, you know, once I do a launch, I have to bring in new followers so that I'm working with almost a new audience and then some of the people that need to be nurtured over a longer period of time from the prior launch. So my big question when it comes to audience conversion is, is it right to stick with the launch model for that reason or is there a way to consistently push the community to the audience? Um, I guess, yeah, I would just end it at that. Like, should we be consistently trying to push people to the credit club or stick with the launch model where they have a chance to get in and then if they don't get in in that chance, they have to wait till the next quarter when it opens up again?

Well, I push people to school every day. And so, I think it depends on how you do it. And so, it's it's it's kind of like think of it like a ratio of like how much So, okay, two things. One is how good is the stuff that you give, which is big thing one. Assuming your stuff that the stuff that you give is good, how you make your ask can also be rewarding. And so like for example, with some of the ads that we've been making, you could see, wait, Alex is running ads. That's an ask from the audience because I'm running ads. But if I make the ads really good and really funny, if you look at the comments on a lot of the school ads, people are like, I can't wait to see the next one. And so I can actually make the ask a reinforcing event, meaning a positive brand event rather than at least at least neutral, you know what I mean, from give ask ratio. And so I think that when I think about because I I've been very hesitant. I've slowly, you know, made ask of the audience and it's been fine because I've just been keeping my eye on um how well integrated the ask is. So like what I don't like is the like I'm making a video and then it just like cuts and it's like hey buy my [ __ ] All right. Then goes back, right? Whereas if it's like hey if I just taught you this strategy on on like in getting engagement and a great way to try that out is in a school community. So if you want that, you can try it for free. Go check

it out. Otherwise, we'll get back to it. Right. So like no one's like, "I can't believe he asked me to join." Like, it's, you know what I mean? So I think it, it really depends on how you integrated into the content.

Yeah. I think that's really interesting. So we've been able to build up a lot of goodwill um between those launch periods because all we do is give them lead magnets with zero ask. So it's very like, if you want this, comment X word and then they get the free value and there's nothing asked in return.

Yeah.

And we also continuously give them value through the emails. So my question is, and that's why the launches do really well in my opinion too, but should we stick to that launch module launch model or can we keep that goodwill and basically only have the ask in the lead magnet?

I think you could probably get away with doing both and it'd be fine.

And I think as well, like having having an incubator that the people sit in who haven't purchased that are still being fed information, like having your audience sell your offering is massive. So in between your launches, having your audience be like, "We're in. This is what we're learning, right?" Like our audience sells for us 24/7. Our Facebook group is an incubator for people who have just come in. Some people like, "I need six months in here. Now I'm in." Some people come in day one and they buy. But our audience is constantly posting like, "This is what I'm learning. This is amazing." We haven't even said, "Please go post your wins." They're just posting in there sharing about our community. So, it's like this ecosystem of they're selling for us. And when we turn up every week and do our live calls, they're like, "We're in." And then when we're not there the rest of the week and we're still posting, our audience is just selling on our behalf.

I think there's a big assumption that everyone in your audience knows what you're doing and they don't.

So, like I'll, I want to tell you a story that might like resonate with you. So, when I walk on the street in Vegas, I get stopped between like five to 10 times like in like an hour. And when I had my book launch coming up, like the weeks leading up to the book launch, every single person I asked, I'm like, "Hey, you going to the book launch?" And they were like, "Oh, I, I didn't know you had a book."

And so, like, this is in the midst of me being like, "Motherfuckers, show up." Like, every piece of content, please, dear God. Like, come on. Um, and I had one person in the whole four weeks out of every person say they're like, "Oh, yeah. I'll be there." And so like we have this, I'm talking to you, man. Talking to you.

So we have this idea that like, I don't want to promote between the launches. It's like, just no one even knows the launch is happening either.

And so like, promote, do it tastefully and then when you do the launches, you'll just get more.

I'd also like to share one thing that I was actually just talking to my students about this. Is I have a lot of passive funnels happening whether it's through ads. I always have people coming into my funnels going into all of that. So I always say, kind of show up with live launch energy. And this is kind of something that you were talking about, like building a brand and building a mission. So something that I always show up with is the proof and the promise. A lot of that is kind of sharing what my clients are working on or walking through something that um was just a win that my clients had or something that they're sharing and actually like talking about it in my Instagram broadcast channels or talking about it in my free groups and talking about it in my Instagram stories and then always leading them. So like no matter if I have a passive funnel or which is actually acts as like a live launch funnel um kind of but essentially it's always kind of sharing those things and promoting those things to either create interest um whether it's getting on a wait list or giving them a low ticket offer getting into your free group. But that's just something that I think is helpful too.

It's very interesting because like with what you said and what you said, like we have the email list that we constantly nurture them through. We share testimonials inside and we do it on our story, but we still don't give them the chance to join.

Like we basically in our heads have been thinking that we're building up anticipation, making them want to join without them being able to. And then when the launch happens, they'll remember all of that.

A lot of people just want things now.

Yeah. They lose interest. But so I think what you can do is rather than thinking zero and then launch, think basic membership, more bonuses.

So just add stuff. Even if it's like a first step.

When you say add stuff, what do you mean?

So add onetime bonuses that they only can get that are launch specific.

Or like a, what, a lower price launch specific?

I prefer not to lower prices. I prefer to add more stuff. So something that we did in our free group, free group, uh, this was like a Facebook group, is um, to get, it was kind of like nurturing everyone that was in the group. We put on a challenge where we did like a raffle. So, every time that somebody posted a sale that they made, they got entered in to win a raffle.

And then um, basically we gave away like a free trip to Mexico, which is like $2,000. And so everyone was posting their sales to like get entries and then they would say like where the sale came from and then a bunch of our clients were just posting like, "Just made a sale from blank. Just made a sale from blank." So like the Facebook group was just popping and then whenever we would jump on the phone with somebody, it was like, "Oh, well, obviously I know this works." Say that one more time. What was? I want to write it, write it down.

The whole, the whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah.

I just didn't hear it.

I was like, I'm ADD as [ __ ].

No, you're good. Me, too. Um,

So it's like in our free Facebook group.

Yeah.

This was uh, an idea we had cuz like in insurance, yeah.

The trips are like a big thing.

Yeah.

So it's like, okay, you get a free, you know, you and a plus one free all expenses paid vacation. We did a raffle. So every time that you posted a sale in the group, encourage engagement, like they got an entry. We just had a VA go through and like count the sales and then someone would join the Facebook group. We were basically running ads to it and then they book in. It's just like sales, sales, sales, sales, sales, sale.

Love it.

So.

Yeah, and in school you can just go wins and then just.

Yep.

Sort for.

Now we're moving it over to school and we got to like get it kicking again. But it was, it worked crazy. The nice thing is if you have wins already pulled up and you start the screen recording, you'd be like, "Let's just look what's inside the group." And you're like, "What do you know? Everyone's winning. No one has any questions." It's that easy.

That's really good. I love that. That also helps for the engagement thing. I think running like one of those a month would just be like a great.

It was like continuous. So, it was like once they hit a certain number, then we did a a raffle. And so to win, you had to show up to the to the live. So it's like two hours of pitching.

You sold them. Yeah.

Oh yeah. We did like a Russell Brunson webinar on there and then closed.

Love that.

Yeah.

Love that. And then I'll just put that that links into the webinar.

So right now, uh, like we, we have a, our audience is 6.5 million and I'd say our average video gets, I don't know, a million to two million on on average. So it's a pretty engaged audience. But so we will probably pitch, I don't know, two to three times a week at the end of the video. So our video is primarily just filled with like value, educate, like edutainment and at the end will be like the call to actions like, "If you want to learn directly from the millionaires interview, comment community mentor," whatever the call to action is and then they'll comment and then they'll go into like a ManyChat sequence on like Instagram and Facebook. So I'm just curious if like, how would you kind of go about pitching or like pitching your audience better while maintaining like brand integrity? Like, would you be a little bit more direct on what they're going to be getting and what?

I think that's the issue.

Yes.

It's, it's super. The first thing I'm thinking about is like, it's a lot of entertainment and someone as an entrepreneur who would love to learn from, I love what you guys do too. So, I would love like, what is something that like, I, I kind of call this like authority content where you're actually showing like, so based off of what someone learned inside of your school group, is this is actually how they took their business from this to this because of what they learned so that they can actually see the process of what they're taking in and value and how it's going to change their business.

Because your content is very wide and generic advice. I don't say that as a slight. I'm just being, you know, if you have 30 seconds to give advice, you're not going to be like, "All right, so on your landing pages, this is what like um." And so I think that if you just said like, uh, "If you want a way to start a business in 30 days," like, because everybody's watching that, like there's way more entrepreneurs watching that than entrepreneurs.

And so I would bet that that would be the like, you might even make, you might actually make a killing just promoting school. Just being real. Like, you just like, it's like, "Hey, easiest business you could start." That's not me trying to get you to do that, but I'm saying it would actually make sense.

Yeah.

So, uh, right now, I mean, right now they go through our our mini-chat sequence and they'll just go through like, we've swapped from being like kind of generic and like the landing page to a lot of the selling to just being straight up front in the messaging and like being actually like, kind of listing out what they'll get exactly. Would you.

Instead of what they get, what's the promise? You're featurizing.

Right? I mean, everybody falls in this like where marketers like benefits, not features. Like, still, that's where that's that's probably what's happening. So just like, make the big promise, like what are they going to get? Like, what's going to happen? Right? And then proof. If you just say like, big thing that's going to happen, shitloads of proof, five-step plan, click here. A lot of people probably want to do it. Do you guys like advertise specifically who they're going to get to talk to and like get mentored by?

Yeah, we'll, we'll do that like on the stories, but if we're being honest, like even though we have a great like a big audience, like stories only captures, you know, 5 to 10% of your audience. Like, like I, I kind of like you said with the book launch, I also think there's a massive, probably 90% of our audience doesn't even know that we have what we have going on.

Well, I mean, I've seen like, uh, I think it was like, I don't know if it was a YouTube short or something where you were talking about like, "If you want to join the school mentors," you were interviewing yourself.

It was like an inception video.

Yeah. Yeah. Inception video. Exactly. But I don't remember hearing like specifically who they would get to learn from. It was just like, "Learn from like the people that were meeting." But if you could like say, "Hey, like, you know, Mark Cuban is inside of this group. Sean Mike is inside of this group."

Also, I think it's too good to believe, actually.

Like, I, I know your price point and I think there's zero chance that these guys are doing anything inside the group. Like, as a con, as a consumer, I'd be like, "Well, I, all these people, there's no way they're just like showing up for your group. They don't own your group." The way it's positioned, it's like, these guys are men on the street. Like, you know what I mean? Like, what is it? Is it just like a more recording of the time that you spent with them that goes into that community? Like, you, like, it's if it were priced at $1,000 a month, I would believe it. Like, it's just the price is so far off. And so I think that you can use the millionaires and their advice to get the big wide audience hook, but I think you drive towards what they want, which is like, and after talking to all these millionaires, we like, we think that we got all of their advice into the simplest 30-day process getting a business started.

Yeah.

Start a bookkeeping business.

It just, everyone says millionaire, but I swear most people want $10 grand a month.

Yeah.

That's the number. You, you forget that when you get richer, right? But.

It's $10 grand a month.

You guys want to know what the top converting hook is for school right now?

$4,664 per month. That's what Kyle, the lowest person on the leaderboard. And I don't want to talk about Evelyn who made $88,000 a month or Hamzu got to $81,000 a month. And those are amazing things. But would three or $4,000 a month change your life? Because listen, I've got, and you go into it, right? And so like that hook.

Small numbers work better. We had a big, uh, there was a biz op, uh, uh, lady that I knew and she said $10,000 a month and $500 a month.

And $500 a month outperformed 10k.

Wow.

So imagine you saying $100 grand a month. Everyone's like, [ __ ] off.

Yeah.

Yeah. So what you get is actually all the people like, if you do $100k a month, you're automatically going to only get people making 10 or 20.

Because no one else even believes it.

And then they're going to want to pay a higher price point.

Right.

Because then you're mispriced if you're actually going wide market, putting $100k.

Trust that you can actually get them to that level. Kind of a not so fun question, but because a lot of, I'm sorry, I have to go here because it's something that we've dealt with um, not in our business currently, but in the past and a lot of us are um, in the business of helping people make more money, right? And so the FTC as far as conversion and showing up on social media is a really massive block for.

Because saying like, "Come and make $10,000 money" is an income claim and we.

Also gives you more reason to go lower. Thought about this. The key is to not say you can make it. Say this person made it.

That's what he's up to. Never say this person could make or how.

No, never say that.

What would you.

I would just say, "This person made this money. This person made this money."

So show up with.

True audience proof is fine with numbers.

And that's could be considered still a clear promise or no?

Yeah.

Keep money with the promise.

You could also say, "Start a business."

Yeah.

That's the clear promise. Yes. Start a business, become independent, like.

Learn a skill or.

You know, work from home, you know, all of the benefits that aren't numbers.

Right.

Okay.

And then you show the proof, which includes some numbers, and then people paint a picture.

And as long as you can prove that those people actually did that, there's no.

You can substantiate your claims. Right. Right.

And I think big picture, you also want to make the the disclaimers as prominent as the primary message. So that's a big part of it. So just like the results not typical doesn't cut it. It's like, "Listen, a lot of people don't do anything."

I was like, but of the people who do take action, this is Sarah. She was able to start a month ago and this is what she did. And listen, I'm not saying that because, listen, she was the top one. There's all these people who didn't make the lead. That's why like you weave that stuff in.

But I'll give you the big, the big TLDDR on the FTC, which is just give people their money back.

Right. Agree.

Just give everyone their money back. It's just the simplest.

Like they only come after people when people are upset. If you give somebody their money back immediately without any fuss.

There's just.

Your Stripe account will get shut down a year before you ever have a problem with the FTC.

Yeah.

So, that's the canary in the coal in the gold mine. Yeah.

That was just seen it happening in other areas. So, we just want to.

They're going so much harder than you can possibly imagine.

Okay.

That I'm surprised they didn't get pinged sooner.

Who are we talking about?

Just the people that get pinged generally, they've gone pretty far. Yeah.

So, you're saying it's a client complaint? That's what triggers it? It's hundreds of client and to to the attorney general for a year or more.

Yeah. Like the, I, I, there was a guy that I, I, I'll say I was, I met at a thing and um, the guy was selling, the guy was selling $100,000 e-commerce stores as investment opportunity.

And he's like, "How do you guys deal with these [ __ ] who want a refund?" And I was like, he's like, "I put all these clauses in and there's all this stuff." And I'm like, "We're [ __ ] this is our chargeback fighting process and like all this stuff." And I was like, "Oh." And I went to one of the older marketers' room and he was like, "Oh yeah, he's [ __ ] ding by the FTC within 12 months." Like, it just like the guys who were like, they're like, "Investment opportunity."

And honestly, uh, over 10k is where things get more, over 100k.

Contract that blocks the chargeback.

Which is where they get into real trouble.

So they, because they signed a contract, they fight the chargeback and win, and then the person's so pissed.

That all they can do is sue.

Yeah.

Josh, on on what you were talking about earlier, um, I think it's very relative to what I was saying when it comes to the messaging and just finding out like, not why they love the community and why they're there, but what is the main reason majority of the people in the community, the one thing that made them buy? I'd be curious what the answer to that is for you. Is it what he said, which is like starting a business, or is it this one person that you guys have in the community, like just as an example, Andy Elliott? 80% of the people that bought just for that reason. Then you talk about that one reason, you know, um, because I had the same problems like talking about all the amazing things that they're going to be a part of and all the things that people rave about in the community versus like, why did this one person, like, what's the one thing that made them join? Then on the inside, they started to love X, Y, and Z. But what's the one thing they joined for? That's what you talk about. Something I've been learning, I've been reading like Ogilvy on advertising recently and I realized he talks so much about like these big companies, they invest so much into research and finding out why their customers like buy and why they why they stay. And I realized I was like, that's what we need to do. Is I don't actually understand why people actually bought in the first place and why they actually stay. So like, that's something I wanted to do, like one of my action items for this next week was actually talk to people within the community of, "Okay, why did you actually invest with us and like, why are you actually staying? Like, why do you love the community?" Here's my only pause on this is that you will you will confirm the people who made the purchase, but not the zillions who didn't buy. And so what I would, I would do is I would run a survey to your story and and start split testing offers. Like if we had like, so I had a, a business that I bought years ago and we got to the deal table and we both knew that we needed to have some sort of backend for this business and we needed to add into it, but we fundamentally disagreed on what the upsell should be. And they were like, "We want to teach people how to do the business that we do." And I was like, but it was a business to consumer. I was like, "What, what, that's not." And they're like, "We're passionate about it. We've already built it all up. Like, we're launching this in like a week or two." I was like, "Well, I'm not going to buy the business if that's what you guys want to do." And so, finally, it was a standoff of like, "This deal's on the line." And I was like, "Why don't you just try my offer versus your offer in a survey and just see which ones people take?" And 85% of people took my offer, which was more of that thing you just bought. And so, rather than like this new and different thing that has nothing to do with the thing you bought. And so for you guys, like leads, the the title leads was after 11 split tests because I split test marketing, advertising, leads, uh, get like, I had a bunch of different um, thing variations that I split tested to just get to leads being the title of the book. And so for your community, like, it's so low effort to just like run two offers side by side. If we did this, would you be interested? Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Until eventually you're like, boom, there's a winner. And then make that the offer with the one clear promise. And then when you have the buyers from that, talk to them so you can get their words rather than yours.

Plus, if you look through your group, you can see what things people are impressed about.

And I, I, I did it a lot with the school games and it's, I know it's like three words. It's "Zoom with Horoszi" because people are saying, "I can't believe I get to be on Zoom with Horoszi every week. I can't believe Hormuzzi is my mentor. I can't believe." Right? All of this [ __ ]. And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to use that." But we weren't using that before. So sometimes it, it isn't looking at why people purchased. It's looking at what people are really impressed with that maybe you didn't even mention. Do you know what I mean? That was, uh, that's probably like the biggest driver of what people are excited about in our community is like, they actually are getting to get on a live call and like ask a question face to face to like an eight n seven figure entrepreneur and have that in real time.

Is it a specific one? Like, you can be way more specific with that. Like who?

Like, we, we, we've had like the former CEO of 7-Eleven. Uh, we've had, you know, the Sean Mikey, Elliott, Justin Waller.

But what are the ones people that people actually say, like a specific one in the group? What's the main, like, one person?

Like a name?

Like, Andy was one of them that everybody was like, "Really fired." Andy who?

Andy Elliott.

So, "Zoom with Andy Elliott."

Like, that they can picture themselves on Zoom and they can see Andy Elliott's face and they're like, "What's the price? What is it?"

It's $37.

Yeah. Sold.

Sold.

Do you see what I mean?

Do you teach them any model? Is it just education or do you say, "Do this specific action step?"

Mmm, so like the community, that's that's also could be like part of the like the problem, I guess you'd say, is because it's pretty broad because we will have like, people will teach like, like we had a guy that runs a $200 million home improvement business literally give the like, the blueprint about like how he scaled his business, the operations, all that. We'll have like these different high-level entrepreneurs give master classes on sales, stuff like that. But um, I don't know, maybe it's like, I'm starting.

I'm being real. I think you have a mismatch between what you guys offer and what your audience needs.

They would make $10 grand a month.

Yeah, that's like, all of that stuff is like, you should target like, if you actually had all those people taking those Zoom calls, then you should make it $5,000 a month and only have entrepreneurs who are at seven figures trying to talk to eight and nine figure entrepreneurs. You're killing mosquitoes with a cannon.

It's not.

They're not trying to start 7-Eleven.

I can make like $100 grand off of his videos alone.

Yeah, exactly. And so like, all they want is like, "Start an LLC, get a bank account, like, the four, become a remote closer." Because if Andy Elliott is a sales guy.

And that's like a specific thing for them to do. Churn's going to decrease massively. The promise that they get when they join is going to be so much better. And just look at the business. There's so many businesses that are like, "Become a remote closer" that make millions a month.

Boy, they could probably give like a few models.

I mean, this is, uh, this is something I was talking to Jack about. Some, you know, we did a, we did a training in their group on basically everything business and how to build business credit, get money from the banks. And one of the things that's, you know, just from a person on the outside, it is really confusing of what to do. There is like, probably 30 different modules just in the classroom. No rhyme or reason. You'll have like, business credit next to mindset next to LLC next to how to scale your ads to $100 million. Like, really random. No pathways, no like, "Hey, if you're coming in here, these are the modules you should go through." So one of the things that, you know, we did in our community is I tried to identify what are the three main avatars. Right? So, our community is mainly based on mastering personal credit. We all want good credit, but what inside of that can you do with your credit? And then I tell people, "Hey, when you join, identify your goal. Got to have a goal." And then you can switch, but here's the modules. Go through this module.

Give a yes, no. If you did that, and you're here, go to this one. And that way, I can really try to ensure that people are getting that result. But when I looked at your community, and you know, one of the things that we were talking about is there's no strategy. There's just you. There's no promise. So like, if you get the promise right, everything else you can orient towards it.

And it'll make it much simpler and then a lot of those things will just be bonus. Like for context, like we continue to remove things from the school games to make it easier and those things reduce churn and increase activation because people get like, the number one reason for cancellation is overwhelm. People are overstimulated.

Right now. It's like the school of Farox is like the Netflix for like, like the, the entrepreneur is Netflix, but it's not, it's not like a, like a working ground in a certain sense. But if you find that one reason that people join, this is just an example. Let's say like 80% of the people who joined was so they could talk to Andy Elliot. Then you can just look at like, what do people, the people that are following Andy Elliot, what's his biggest conversion line for example, and use that same thing. So if his is like, "Becoming a remote closer and making $6K per month," you say the exact same thing, but about getting to speak with him within the school of hard knocks.

I know that you guys don't have everyone coming on a recurring basis, which is probably, I'm assuming.

It's a different, uh, call every.

Which is why I think you use big wide, use their faces to drive the traffic to a very simple promise that you can help them deliver on.

I think Alex really hit something earlier that like stuck out to me was like he just mentioned about like not having a big clear promise. I would buy from you guys if you had advertised Sean Mike. We paid like a few hundred dollars just to literally get a text message back from a guy named Patrick Bet-David. We talked about yesterday. Like, few hundred dollars for a text message, like just a response on like talking about like debt risk. And for Sean Mike, you could have got me and him on there and that would have been like, we would have paid probably a few grand for a Q&A just one time. And so like the problem that I have with when I like, I didn't even look at your community because I saw, I saw $37 a month and for the value that's in your community, like Alex said, I didn't really believe that like I was like, "Okay, $37 a month, these guys are like, I don't even know what they're giving away, but like, it can't be what would be priced, you think it is."

Yeah. It can't be as valuable as it is because it's priced at such a low point. Like if you said it was $9.99 a month, I'd be like, "Let me watch this VSSL and see what they got." But with there being no promise and the price point being lower, those two things deterred me from even watching the VSSL. And then talking to me last night, I'm like, "Dude, $37 a month is a steal."

You know what I mean?

Well, because price is bidirectional with value. So like, people see price and also associate with value.

Wow.

Yep.

And so like, you can make your thing more valuable by simply raising the price. What, what if Alex, they did like, they found out that big clear promise that they promoted broadly through all of their content, but then on your stories, anytime you had a specific live call, let's say like you had a live call with Alex scheduled in the community on Friday, on all of your content, you're just talking about that big clear promise, but in your stories, you're saying, "Join to join the live call with Alex Hormozi this Friday." Like, your stories are specific to the call that's coming up, just so you can pull in the people that are interested in that specific individual, but then broadly they talk about the promise. Would that, what do you think about that?

I think you need to figure out whether your avatar is people who make a lot of money and want to make more and learn from eight to nine figure people, or you're just helping people start a business, and that will inform everything else.

Do you, is there a way to kind of bridge that gap for both of those avatars? Because there are a lot of.

I wouldn't. You got to pick one. They're so wildly different. I mean, you could be charging $5,000 a month if you actually had a call every week with an eight and nine figure entrepreneur every week. You probably charge at least a thousand.

Yeah.

And you get live Q&A and like, you'd get, it's like, and I would just say in the disclaimer like, "This is for people who are already making, you know, $500k. This is for the 1%. So if you're making at least $400,000 a year in the US, you're in the 1% and this is for you to go from the 1% to the 0.1%." That's what it is. Or you just say, "We're going after beginners," and you just make the most clear-cut, "This is how you start a business." And then after that, there's like, "This is the first 30 days to get started," and then here's five paths that you can pick. Right? You can start a school community, you can do remote closing, you can do.

Under, under the umbrella of audience conversion, um, I'd be really curious to talk about like, I've, I've really honestly struggled to convert any audiences at a good rate outside of Instagram.

I'll talk about TikTok specifically. It's always a much bigger audience, like three times the audience that I'm working with on Instagram, but just so hard to convert. Obviously, there's no ManyChat or anything that I could set up on TikTok. It's always just link in bio. Um, and then the audience is just less loyal in general. But what are your thoughts on that? Like, it's.

I think going, I think switching mediums. So, I think like I put everything I possibly could to get someone to opt-in and then you can sell from an email list.

Okay. So just don't talk about, just.

I would just drive, I would just drive as much to a different medium of communication that we know converts. Like email still converts like crazy.

Have you tried free group from TikTok?

No.

That could be worth a shot.

Even the lead magnets do [ __ ] on TikTok compared to on Instagram.

But people naturally click link in bio. Like, aren't you programmed? If you like somebody, I'm straight into their link in bio. You don't attempt to tell me. I'm like, "You talked about what I want from you, Jamie." I was like, "Let me know." I replied to you knowing that you were here. It's like, people know.

So if you got value to give, they're going to go. You don't even have to sell them because they're drawn to your message.

I like that person. I would tell me what have they got. And then make it simple. If you got 50 million things in bio, I'm out.

Yeah. I would go to buy or if I don't know enough, put me in a community where I can figure out what you're doing.

Yeah.

Otherwise, you lose them. So it's either an offer or an incubator. That's really all you should have.

Yeah. Free school community functions the exact same way as an email list. I mean, literally, I mean, it's the same deliverability as an email. So either, either one would work.

You guys do YouTube too?

Yeah. I mean, the, yeah. YouTube, all their content is on YouTube Shorts. Um, we'll like post it in the YouTube community. But like.

It's just, even the lead magnets like when you're trying to offer a free, "How to get to an 800 credit score guide" that crushes on Instagram. Everybody wants it. They get it for free. Builds goodwill. Just doesn't perform on TikTok. The reel goes crazy. Just no one's commenting or like asking for the actual lead magnet.

What about like a 30-minute video on YouTube that teaches you how to do that?

That's like, yeah, I think that's that's not a bad idea, but it's also just completely separate from like, "How do I convert the audience that's on TikTok?"

I mean, I know a lot of TikTokers, TikTokers, TikTokers um have had some of this issue, which is like, they don't have really a lot of depth in the audience. And it's also again, how the audience was built. Like if they're not actually talking about one specific thing on a regular basis, then the audience is all over the place. And many of the views that are coming aren't warm audience. They're cold.

I mean, especially at TikTok more than any of the other platforms, like it's all about just virality and whatnot.

In the future, it'd be really cool if School could do a live feature.

Where we could go live on video.

That would literally tap into your audience. If we had a go live button that we could just get people behind the scenes, be able to sell directly live. People see us physically turning up, we would not have to have anything in between.

Yeah.

And voice notes would be.

What's different? What's different between going live and doing a Zoom and going live?

But then you got to wait and then drop it in, right? It's not actually live.

What do you mean Zoom live? Have you seen what happens when a calendar event is like, "Happening now"?

It says live and it's blinking and it's.

But for free, I guess, then you got to segregate your community.

What do you mean?

Like Facebook is our um free that we then and then when you paid, you go into School, right? So we now have to house a Facebook as our incubator as our free. I guess we could do it in School, but we don't have that opt. I guess. Yeah, we would just have to have everyone go into a free School and then a paid School, right?

Yeah.

That would work better, honestly.

Yeah, because then they're already preconditioned to be in the app.

And then it's a one-click purchase.

Yeah.

And they already know the platform and everything.

Yeah.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I, I just still don't know what to do with this TikTok audience.

So, you, you have to like fundamentally, you need to have some sort of lead magnet that draws the widest slice of the audience towards something that will engage them further. So, whether that's email or a free School community, whatever it is.

This, and if the lead magnet is not working, it's probably because there's a larger issue, which is that the bu, the brand was built on something that's not niche. So really, you could just do, uh, the like she's saying, like the incubator, so have an opt-in for that, like so you could capture their email and then also then they get an email for an invite to that so that you can nurture them both ways.

And just the subscribers aren't like, I would also bet you that it's an expectation thing, which is 800,000 on TikTok is not 800,000 on Instagram, which is also less than 800,000 on YouTube, which is also less than 800,000 on podcast. So, like they're not the same. And so, if you're, if you're saying, "Oh, I, you like, I'm going to value these two the same." Like, 800,000 on TikTok is probably worth 1% of the 800,000 on podcast.

Yeah. It's an exact number. 800,000 on TikTok and like 200,000 about on Instagram.

I bet you get more from Instagram.

Yeah.

It's like not even comparable.

Right? Because Instagram's like, I would rather have 200,000 on Instagram than 800,000 on TikTok. I think I have 900,000 on TikTok. I don't know [ __ ] about how to log it.

Seriously.

For us, it's the same with with the webinars. So all a lot of my clients are on TikTok and on YouTube. So it was hard for me like, "How can I convert?" And then I was just running ads on. So there was a girl, she had 150k on TikTok. Um, she was in like psychology and stuff and we just started to run webinars for her both on TikTok and on Meta. And TikTok ads wise, it just sucked. And then Facebook, we crushed it and we got people to webinars because they, people in Meta, they recognized her face, you know, because they were just, they are on the same time, they on TikTok and also Meta. So it was not a problem that she did not have an audience on Meta because people recognized her face from TikTok and we just took everybody to and we did this like 12 times for a whole year. Each month we subscribed like five, six K um to the email list. So we grew, she didn't have an email list. So we, so we had a 50, 60k email list in one year. We had like, every webinar, we had 1,500 people show up, like 25, 30% show up. So we had like 18,000 people show up, uh, across the whole year. Every time we com, we, we had a conversion of like 3, 5% of the five, six K to the to her, uh, to her subscription, which was like 20, 25 bucks. Yeah. So it was, we, we just, we just love this. Every time we, what we put in the webinar, we put in like, uh, usually around 3k and we just made the 3k back on the webinar and then, you know, people just stay for like six, seven, eight months, whatever. We had some churn problems, we're working on that right now, but we made like five, six, uh, rows on the webinar every time.

So the common theme of everybody here is that you need to switch them into a longer, more engaged platform. So whether that's email, School, webinar, all like, if you chunk up to what's the principle is that there's not enough, not enough depth with the person because they're taking five-second sound bites. But you will get facial recognition, which is one of the big points I've made in my content. Like the, the main output of short content is facial recognition for ads. Like that's the reason that like when we talk about it for us, it's like, I don't, I'm not sure I necessarily believe that shorts creates long viewers. I think there are people who watch shorts and there are people who watch longs. They don't necessarily, they're not necessarily the same people. Um, but I do know that people recognize me in an ad because of the short content and then they're more likely to click. And so that's where you really scoop everything up. Like I think the infinite money hack that still exists right now is ads with organic. Like if you build an organic audience, you can pretty much 5 to 10x any organic business by simply adding paid ads in. Because all the stuff that you guys have, it's like you're getting 5% of your audience to see your [ __ ]. It's like, cool, then I can get 100% of my audience and some cold to see my stuff for a price that I can pay the platform. But the thing is is it'll still convert like warm. So you'll still have insane ROAS as long as you stay within your pool. And so then the objective is how do I continue to grow my warm audience so that I'm eventually Mr. Beast so that the world is my warm audience.

Does that make sense? And so when you see people have these like, like we started running ads and it was just murdering and then it just like CPA took off. It's like, well, then you hit the edge of your warm audience and then you actually went to cold.

And we have, we had one thing that we did that like changed the game for us. Uh, so this girl in this scenario that I said, um, usually people run um, like she's good in webinars. So it makes sense to, you know, make her record an ad that she's like, "Join the live webinar." And we tested these ads and these ads sucked. And we just like, we pulled her top TikToks, which was not talking about the webinar. Okay. So, it was a TikTok that just performed really, really well. Uh, where she gave just pure value. I don't know, three things, you know, to stop overthinking. That was and then just we run this, we run this on and we just pull this, run this on Facebook. And because the engagement for this was like, you really, really high and in the copy, we could talk about, "Join the live webinar." So in the video, she was not, she was still the, she's like, really cute. She's an amazing person. Love to work with her. And so she was always this like, cute, you know.

I just love you with the psychology and then join the free live webinar where we talk about I don't know the three things of overthinking, whatever, blah blah. And then on the opt-in, we were just like, "Join the free webinar," thank you page, "Join the free school group." And then 25, 30 people always show up from from the list.

Yeah, I definitely have my answer and thank you guys. I think the one thing that's worked well for me on TikTok is being really niche. I have a pretty small following, but it's always produced really high-quality leads. And, uh, now I've been testing like 20 and 30-minute videos on TikTok.

Oh, wow.

And they do really, really well.

You can do that on?

Yeah. They just, they just open it up.

We just take our YouTube and reformat it.

So it's vertical.

Damn. That's cool.

One thing I would say is if the goal is to go from short form to a longer, deeper form, the problem is when you try to push people off platform, the platform decreases the reach.

Yes. So, one thing that I found works really well is you put a long-form thing on the same platform. So, if you make your, take your VSSL, put it vertical, put it as your pinned TikTok, and then call, "Watch it," "Go watch the VSSL."

So, back in the day when I was doing high ticket, I had a YouTube channel. Whenever I would direct people off of YouTube, it would tank the reach. So, what I did was I took the VSSL, I put it as an unlisted YouTube video, and then whenever I made a community post, I linked it to the YouTube video. YouTube's like, "Oh, great. He's keeping it on the platform."

Yeah. So that video ended up getting 300,000 views just from the community posts and it generated $1.3 million just from the community posts.

To keep it on the same platform.

Beautiful. Beautiful. It's amazing.

Just one more, one more idea on that. And this is something that we did to help grow, like our, our newsletter list. Is you can pretty much, like on short-form content, let's say at the end, you make a call to action like, "If you want more, if you want to, you know, the longer version of this or whatever it may be," you get them to do a comment. And then in the prompt of like ManyChat, for example, uh, for like Instagram or Facebook, you can get them to be like, "So, thank you so much for commenting on our recent video. Before we send you, uh, the the full video or whatever it may be, would you like to get access to more free exclusive content that we send out every single week?" And they can just be like, "Yes," and you can get them into your email list. Or, "No." It's like, "No worries, here's the full video." And that's just been like a great way for us to like help grow our email list on like other platforms as well.

Yeah, that's similar to like from my podcast. If I post any shorts, I say, "Comment X for the full pod," and then ask them if they want their email for updates on the podcast. If not, I just send them the link to the episode. So, that's that's amazing. Thank you guys. If I were to just zoom out on the whole thing, one thing you said earlier, Alex, I thought was insane, although very simple, is, "Too good to believe." It's a very, very strong line. I'll remember that for sure.

Yeah. There was an old-school marketer who ran an ad like once a year to show his like students. This is that it was, "Give me, give me $100 and I will give you $1,000. Call this number." And he's like, "No one would call." I guess it's just too good to believe.

There's someone on the leaderboard at the moment, their group is, "Your first dollar."

Just $1.

There's a reason that all the, if you guys think, if you guys look at the ads that we're running, I talk about "first dollar" in almost all of them. Also protects us from compliance, FTC, and all that stuff. But like, I'm just saying, like, people who have a community make a buck. They make money because the, if you guys remember how hard it was to start a business, your first one, it was like, it felt like this crazy, insane, amorphous task. But like, once you get the first dollar across the bridge, you're like, "Oh, I just do more of that." You're like, "Okay, I get it." But it just feels overwhelming because you just don't know.

Okay. Audience conversion. Anyone else do anything that was, uh, neat or nifty that like page conversion stuff? Or, um, I love the webinar with the thank you page. I think it's really good. I think I had a good one. I actually got this from like a, I think this was like a six-year-old Sam Ovenans video in the gym one day.

In the gym.

Yeah, I was in, I was in the gym listening to.

Yeah.

And, um, one of the things he said was that he just interviewed his customers. And like asked them pretty much what they want. It was some variation of saying that. And so I started calling people out of the blue on like a Tuesday and just asking them like why they bought our stuff in the past and then what the difference was between the price point that they wanted it at and the price point that I had it at and why they would pick one over the other. And so I, the one thing that I always did that I noticed that really took our conversions, cuz like we literally, I think we did eight sales to start the school games and then like it hit the can for like five, four or five days. Same price point, same pretty much same everything. The only problem was is that nobody wanted it. And the people that bought it just liked this and they were like, "I know these guys make money. Let me get in there." And so like our first,

Webinar with like 200 people.

Yeah. It was like a webinar with 200 people. So, the jumping on sales calls, it was actually hard. And, um, which was weird. After calling them though, they all told me what they wanted and they all wanted the same [ __ ]. And so they were like, "Yo, like, I'll pay you three times more for that."

And we used to sell that. And I was like, "Well, let's just go back to selling this." And like, it's crazy because you'd think that like that's just so logical. And I heard him say it. I was just like, "Oh my god, what the hell am I doing?" But when you, when you ask your customers, like, ask your TikTok people, "Hey, what do you want to buy?" And they'll just tell you like, "Would you rather pay this per month or would you rather pay this upfront?" And it turns out people would rather pay me three grand for less time than pay me $9.97 month-to-month, which is like, to me, I thought was bananas, but like, they would rather pay more.

Yeah. And get less faster.

I think my falloff was just thinking that like the pe their followers are all the same. Like their Instagram followers are the same type of people as their TikTok followers. And obviously they're not. Um, which is why there's another step required to nurture them. What you're saying about price is very similar to, I know this guy I followed, like Big Beard, a lot of people know him, Jacked. I don't know if his name is Alex. He talks about, uh, this, this wine bottles.

Too good to believe.

Uh, four wine bottles, all the exact same wine, all priced like, you know, very cheap, middle, and then expensive as [ __ ]. And, um, everyone said that the, the one that was expensive as [ __ ] tasted the best, but it was all the same wine.

So, it's just like placebo and price, like, and how how much they perceive the value for it.

Totally.

And most buy what they want.

Yeah. The trade-off with price is that you, you'll have higher churn and lower conversion, but oftentimes it's still offset because you can more than 1x price. You can 10x price. You can, you can do a lot there. And so, just often times, especially in these types of communities, um, like if you have a 100% increase in price, you're not going to get a 50% drop in conversions. You might get a 30% drop. And if that's the case, then you made more money, provided churn remains the same. So, cool. Um, that was good. Anything else? So, talk to your customers, which Sam and I will always be big advocates for. Any other conversion hacks for audience stuff? Any any call to action stuff?

Yes. Yeah. I was about to ask about call to actions. Yeah.

Okay. Anyone done any call to actions that's worked really well? Yeah. This is, uh, this is one that I, uh, I you might, you might disagree.

Purely maybe not.

Yeah, purely because, uh, it is a sell in the middle of a video. But one of the things that, uh, I found that has worked really, really well is taking previously t, or like previous videos that we've done that have done, you know, a lot of views, finding the average watch time, and then finding at the part of the video that I can add a little CTA. So, instead of adding the CTA at the end of the video, record a clip, snip it in the middle, maybe 15 seconds in, 18, like whatever that watch time is, and wherever it makes sense. Quick CTA in the middle, and then do a CTA at the end, knowing that most people aren't going to get to the end of the video anyways, which drives more comments.

I mean, I don't disagree. I think two CTAs in one 18-second clip sounds like a lot, but, um, we put, we put our CTAs, if you've noticed, at like the 30% mark, like on our YouTubes and whatnot. We move it, we move it up.

I think I'll add on to what Chris said when, when we do that. Number one, um, we're, we're always, the CTA is to something free. So, we're not asking them to join the community there. It's usually for the lead magnets. And two, it's always very relative to the video.

So, they had a viral video talking about the best credit cards to use. And when, when we reposted it with the CTA, the CTA was for a lead magnet teaching about the best credit cards to use, right? So, it's always very relative. And the ask is for something free.

Just a couple.

Yeah, we do. We have a little checklist when we make content which is, uh, after we finish making, we're like, "All right, so what call to action fits this video the best?" And I do it in the same with the same mic, the same t-shirt, the same everything. So that way it's truly integrated in the video and so it doesn't look like anything. It just looks native. And I think that's the goal is like, you want to make your advertising not look like advertising.

And obviously your call to action and what you're speaking about is leading to one offering, right? You're not creating a new free lead. It would be like, "Hey, if you want to practice this pricing stuff, you should join school. Hey, if you want to like learn how you can advertise more stuff, join our school community. Hey, if you like the CTA, the offers, the CTA is the same more or less. It's just the hook, basically, the hook for the CTA changes. Yeah, that's great though. What else? Anything that you guys have seen work with, uh, story conversions or organic stuff or anything?

I would say lives convert the best. We've heard that at like.

They're for connection and conversion. And especially on Instagram, they're not broadcasting them out like TikTok does. So, it allows for you to actually gather your. I do it as a non-negotiable every single week. It's one of my favorite things and it acts like a mini masterclass. And then I have, I actually can, I do two things actually with my lives because on ManyChat, you can do a call to action or a keyword rather, um, while you're actually going live. So, if you want to bring them to like a time-sensitive offer, you can create a keyword that they can only use while you're live and then they can actually get into an entire funnel. Um, so if you wanted to keep it like a time-sensitive offer, you don't actually have to save it onto your page. And then I duplicate it with ManyChat for like a Reels type of situation and it works great. I love it.

Yeah, we've, we've seen lives as, I, I feel like as has been a common theme throughout all of the school winners, like the people who, especially like people who have tiny audiences, they're like, "I just went live twice a day," and they're like, "and I just, whoever showed up," all the time, like every day, depending on what time zone was up, they would do another one. Like, "Oh, Australia's waking up," or like, "America's waking up."

Yeah. Hakee did three a day for his school games and they just timed it with the three big time zones. And he has like, he had like five people in his audience and, uh, was able to win.

They go, it's, it's, we say that like, we won the school games in June because of the lives because we only had five days to win because we launched on June 25th or seven days. The lives literally crushed every single time with the, the ManyChat specific to the lives. You guys use ManyChat, but you could do keywords and automations that are only for the live calls.

Wait, so like you tell people to comment in the live?

In the live.

Dude. When you guys do your interviews?

When you guys do your interviews live, just have somebody else on a phone that just makes it a live stream.

That. Yeah.

No.

I mean, it's not a bad idea, especially with some of the people that we.

Well, I would just tell them it's like, "We'll get thousands of people on right now so that your message is heard by more people."

Yeah. I don't think that's.

And it's like, "If you want to ask your question directly to this person, then," or you just, yeah, it's like exactly.

I don't, yeah, I don't have any stats on this, but, um, so I don't know how, how much of a difference it does make. But if you tell your community members as well that you're going live. Every community has those loyal members that are somehow always there, right? So if you tell them like, "Yo, I'm going live. We'd love for you guys to show some love on the live."

Ride or die. So, he'll go live and then there's like, people, he'll do the CTA. A bunch of people are coming in the CTA. But then there's also a bunch of people like, "I joined the credit club three days ago. It's [ __ ] amazing. I joined 10 days ago. I got X, Y, and Z. I just took a trip for $200 that was going to cost me $2,500." And they're seeing that. And I think it all just battles against what he said, which is, um, "too good to believe," because when you're on live, I mean, you're sit, standing right there and it's just, it's so much more authenticity. You could also do lives and invite like past members or people's success stories and actually do an interview.

And keep that as, you know, for, I always think of them like, think about it in the long game of your marketing too. So, people coming to your page, how much trust you're going to convert from a past live interview, authority-style content versus like a trending B-roll piece of content.

So, this isn't necessarily live related, but I'm just curious for other people that like sell on stories. We've noticed by far that like if you just do a single story with like a swipe up, uh, like call to action, like it crushes. In terms.

Say again. So, so like if, if you just do one story by itself, like for us, we'll do anywhere from like two to 400,000 views on a singular story by itself. Whereas if you do like multiple story sequences, it kills the engagement for that like first story.

Okay. So, I guess really what I'm saying here is, is I'm just curious for people that do multiple stories, do you notice a better conversion rate, uh, because you're able to actually hit on more topics and actually it's more like, say, like more direct response copy versus just like kind of one talking point, swipe up, and then get sold in the middle.

You want to think about stories like a story, a beginning, a middle, and an end. So, like, as you start, you obviously don't want to have like, you know, when like your stories turn into like small little dots up on top. Like, I will only do maybe like eight stories a day, but they're all intentional. Like relatability in the morning, bringing people through like, I'm not just a business owner. I'm not there just to sell them an offer. And then I'll actually like,

Tell a pitch and a story.

Yeah. And then I invite them into.

She's masterful at it.

Thank you. Very kind.

I don't know. I don't know if that was helpful at all. I don't even know if I answered your question.

Yeah. No, that.

On the topic of stories, I'd just be curious to ask you guys. I think stories are very valuable because like out of your entire audience, the people who watch your stories are tend to be a little bit warmer.

I've paid very close attention to the different things that impact the actual story views. Um, like sometimes with you guys, I'm sure you experienced it, they have 200k, sometimes a story could get 20k views, other times it could get 5k views. Trying to realize like, what are the differences that create those different metrics in terms of story views? Obviously, like the consistency. I've actually noticed the more you post stories, the less views it gets. So, I'd love to talk to you guys about that. Having links in the stories versus a call to action for a trigger word usually gets less views. Um, so just curious to open up that discussion on like what you guys have noticed relative to story views in the system.

I would say, I would say for us, a big thing is like, um, I mean, so we're still, like, this is something that I'm like, on a mission to do is like, continue to test like what works. Let's say black screen versus just like, maybe it's a over, like a behind-the-scenes shot of an interview. But in regards to the, just the, like, I would say like of the behind-the-scenes shot, the more crazy the, the creative, almost like a thumbnail on YouTube, the better it performs. Like, we have a, like our be, one of our best performing, uh, stories is like us doing an interview with a guy on a Cybertruck, doing an interview in a Cybertruck. As well as the other one is like, we're doing a, it was like a yacht video and it's a guy, he's like an older guy, just ripped, and he just has his shirt open like on a Miami yacht. And like that, that story also crushes. So, it's like, it's also like, so like, I would say creative has been very important. But, um, whenever we do a link directly on the story, it tanks us. That's why it's like, we, in that case, we probably just do a swipe up.

And then we'll send them the link via the swipe up.

Is that because Instagram doesn't want them leaving the gr, so they throttle?

So, the formula I've picked up on so far, and I'd love to hear if you guys have noticed anything different, is like the first story matters most, and it has to be something cool as [ __ ]. Like, you can't really ask for anything. It has to just be interesting to the people looking.

It's like a thumbnail, pretty much.

So, like an Instagram thumbnail. So, first story, just something entertaining. And then something engaging, whether it's a poll or the slide, like something that gets them to engage on the story. Then in the next one, obviously, like call to action for conversion. Um, and then besides that, I noticed like if you go a day without posting a story, then the next ones usually have a lot more views. So, I try to have that gap anytime I know a call to action is coming up. Um, obviously we talked about links in there, story views. Anything else that you guys have noticed? Jamie, you post, uh, eight stories a day consistently, no matter what.

No, it's, I would say eight is the max that I'll post a day. I just find that the more that they are, then it just, it decreases. So, I feel like that's the max that I'll do, but I'll generally do at least four a day.

No matter what, you story up every day.

I bet you if you considered stories like Reels, it would make more sense.

So, like you have hooks, just like what's going to draw someone to the story. And I would imagine that the algorithm is incentivized to keep people watching. And so if you have a really good hook in your story and people watch all the way through the story, I would bet that that story gets pushed out to more people. If you have no hook and then people immediately click past it.

So, I don't think so. I think there's one element of like the on-platform thing for sure, like, you know, platforms want to keep you on there. That's the objective. But a lot of times there's mythology in the creator space about like, "Never post on Tuesdays," and like, just like random [ __ ] when in reality, like, like Mosseri from Instagram, if you know who he is, he's got, he's the head of Instagram. He talks, he has a lot. You should follow him. Um, he's like, "We don't weight Reels higher than images. People like videos more." And so because the algorithm is here to keep people on platform, there are more videos and creators rewarded because more people like it. And so there's a lot, like, I, we never talk about the algorithm ever. Like, it's never a discussion in our team because fundamentally, all content strategy, if you align it with the platform's goals, will long-term perform well independent of all the changes they have because the algorithm only approximates perfection and so they just get better and better at it.

Yeah.

Yeah. The algorithm will always change.

Yeah.

To to optimize for quality.

Yeah.

So if you aim for quality,

You'll be ahead of the algorithm.

Yeah. You'll always, you'll always perform if you have the fundamentals and everything. And so if you want really good stories, then I'll bet like the two that you had examples like those are probably Reels that would also do well.

They did.

Right? And so it's like, it's just content. It's literally Reels just being consumed like this rather than like this. But the idea is the same.

Platforms are designed to surface quality.

Yeah.

Like they're trying to find the good stuff and bring it to the surface.

So, like if you make good stuff, it'll, it'll pop. Yeah.

I think the one of the things that I've done with the lives because we have a really small audience. I mean, there's only so many burial insurance sales people that are doing it over the phone trying to generate leads. Like, it's pretty niche. Um, but one of the things that I've done that's worked like crazy well is when you get them on lives, or it could be a story, any type of interaction with you where you guys are like having that like more personal connection, is just call them and ask. This would be like better for higher ticket. You would probably want to just do a DM if you're selling like sub-buck a month. I'd say. But like, if you just call someone and ask them why they haven't gotten into your program yet. A lot of the times, like they'll, they don't even know why and they'll like, they'll be like, like if Alex calls somebody was like, "Hey dude, like, why haven't you sold me your company yet?" Like, people would be like, "I don't know. What's, you're Alex? I just like, like that's and that's the reaction like, holy [ __ ], I just saw you on YouTube like five minutes ago. Yeah. So, what, like, what's up man? Like, what's going on? Do you hate me?"

Yeah. Like, do you hate? Exactly. Do you hate me? And like, dude, they'll just con, like, they'll convert there or they'll set a time with you if they're like going out. A lot of the times and they'll just like, just the call right after the live or the message right after the story, whatever it is that like the interaction is with you, if you go directly to them as a real person. ManyChat, email automation, text messages are cool, but they're not personal as as much. Whereas like, again, lower ticket, good to go. Higher ticket though, like I found if you actually call the person and just ask them why they haven't bought, they'll make up some BS reason and usually they just don't know what you have and you can just sell it to them. And that's.

They don't even know you exist, which is usually the big issue. So, real quick question, just so I see who here is high ticket. I want to say high ticket, I'll say $500 and up per month. Okay. Okay. So, that just helps. I think it'll help everybody have context when people are talking. That helps me out too.

Can I, sorry, can I ask one last thing? Sam, you know when you said quality beats the algorithm. I want to know what's quality to you? Because I think if you were to ask, like, what is the metric of quality? Is it a professional camera in a studio? Is it the content itself? Is it how it's filmed? Is it what you say? Like, what is quality to you? Cuz I think that's really valuable to kind of know what is the back end of that.

To me, or you mean?

Well, like.

Yeah, to you, because of the what you've created. That's kind of.

I think on YouTube that shows up as watch time.

It's those right there.

What is it?

CTR times watch times times re-up. So, like, if someone clicks, watches, and then watches another video of yours. That's a perfect, perfect experience. And so.

Yeah.

You think about making a video, it's like, how do I, like, the algorithm will try and capture that, right? That, like, expression. And there's a zillion complexities around it, but fundamentally, like, that's it.

I really think it can be measured with time.

Because people give time to things that they like. And they.

And I mean, you know, sometimes that can be hijacked because if something's just so shocking, like a conspiracy theory, like flat earth or something, it might, it might just absolutely smash those metrics, right? But then YouTube will find it and be like, "This is bad. We need to like, downregulate this hard now because it's, it's spreading crazy [ __ ] on our platform." Um, so, you want to like, hit all of these metrics, but also if YouTube sees it, they're not going to be like, "We need to downregulate this." Cuz there's humans in YouTube too and you, they are absolutely finding channels and giving them extra points. It's not just machines. Um, so you want to be, you want to be like friendly so that YouTube would want to give you more stuff. That's really important. You don't want to be like a parasite on the platform.

Um, you want to be someone that they would like to give special privileges to. Yeah.

Cool. I thought of something, um, regarding conversion that I definitely want to share with you guys. So, this is something I ran into almost on accident. If anyone has DM closers, um, that they're trying to convert into their community, people, people into their community with. So, when we were trying to win the school games, we had John was DM closing, of course. Um, but there were times when, like, we're running against time and I, I wanted to get into the trenches as well and try to do some DM closing and people would receive the link, right? And, um, they would even respond or click on the link, but they just wouldn't convert at that point. So, I remember I was going through all the DMs. We had a [ __ ] ton of responses and I just wanted more people to convert. So, like, they're responding to the CTA, they're receiving the link, they're just not converting. I'm sitting there. I'm trying to respond to them. "Hey, have you, have you clicked the link yet?" Blah, blah, blah. All the different follow-up messages. One of the people I was like, "You know what? [ __ ] it. Let me just call them on Instagram from the Credit Brothers's profile." Like, you can dial them in the DMs. But I didn't want to actually talk to them because I'm not one of the Credit Brothers. I just wanted to call. Literally called, let it ring three times, and then hung up. Two seconds later, I get the email notification from School. They bought into the community.

With no communication. I was like, "What the [ __ ]?" Let me try it again.

I go to the next person. Same thing. They got the link. They just didn't respond. And they're not, they're not saying anything. They're not responding. Dialed them. Let it ring three times and hung up. Three seconds later, boom, they join the community. I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is happening?" I call John. I'm like, "Dial every single person that received the link and just let it ring a couple times and if they answer, [ __ ] it. Just say that you work with the Credit Brothers and blah, blah, blah." No one answered. First of all, no, not a single person answered the call. I swear to you, I swear to you, at least 50% of the people we did that with ended up joining.

Does ManyChat have a 3-second dial feature?

You should tell them.

What time? They could have a 3-second dial feature.

A 3-second dial feature in, uh.

In their follow-up sequence.

Oh, in ManyChat.

Work it in.

Yeah, that would be fire if, if they could. Yeah.

You should email them and be like, "This is crushing. Can you do this?"

They'll probably do it. Honestly.

I still don't really know why it worked, but like watching the reaction from it, I'm telling you guys,

It's obvious why it worked. If someone's messaging you and you're not replying and then you see they called you, you're like, "Oh, [ __ ]." Cuz I think the other side of that too is like the intention of like, "Oh, they're actually following up with me like personally." Like the, the level of like texting someone versus calling. It's like, that's a big jump. You're going to like dial my number.

It was crazy. I mean, like the craziest thing to me is that it didn't require anything else. They didn't respond like, "Oh, hey, I'm here. Like, by the way, this is why I didn't join." It was just like they got the call. It said miss call. And then they joined. I'm like, "Welcome in."

It was the, it was the craziest thing. 3 seconds.

Call them. Don't talk to them.

Yeah, call. Don't talk. I didn't say talk to your leads. I just said call them.

Immediately. Yeah. They.

Someone, they would answer and, uh, the first person it worked with, they, I, I said, "I called you on accident." So, I would dial and I'd be like, "My bad. I called you on accident." And then that's it. And then they would just join.

I swear. I swear. I would just dial, hang up, and then be like, "My bad. I called you on accident." Well, 30 days from now, we'll find out and we'll probably have a bunch of school people who are are hammering away.

Yeah. One day, someone's going to answer or call you back.

We, we'll talk to them. But I have a screen, I have a screenshot of a guy, the first guy I did it with and this is why I like called him and was like, "Call every person." He, I called, told him I called on accident. He joined and I was like, "Welcome in." And he was like, "Just want you to know, I swear to you, I have the screenshot. I just want you to know I only joined because of your accidental dial." Word for word.

I was like, "Why though?"

If you had gotten a little bit reminding them that you exist, like people have such short attention spans.

I think it's just.

Sounds like you cared enough to follow up. I mean, like that's, that's all I mean. It's, you have this big, you, you get, you, you attend this live as this anonymous person and then the person you were on the live with calls you. You're like, "Oh, [ __ ]. I'm like, "I'm special. Oh, this might be the kind of attention I would get on the inside." Also, then you became a real person. Yeah.

Versus somebody behind a screen.

Yeah. Some people cited just breaking like the automative theme. Like some person was like, "Oh, I thought this was an automation the whole time."

Yeah.

People assume that with me. I was like, "If it's written down, I wrote it." They're like, "I just figured." I was like, "No, if it's written, I wrote it."

I have actually made a lot of money with, uh, sending voice messages in Instagram DM. And sending one time, I didn't really have an audience. That was my first webinar in my life. And, uh, I just launched a free Facebook group and only like maybe 500 people joined. And, uh, there was a little challenge and then I wanted to sell out to 250 people, my live event, my live event. And I was like, running the webinar and then seven people booked and I was like, "What the [ __ ] do I do right now?" So, I just, I had the contract with the hotel and I was like, "I need to sell 240 more." And then each people who has commented on the live change, just DM them. There was no ManyChat back then. It was like 2018. So, I DM'd them and then I sent, uh, just a video message to everyone. But like, not just one. You know, when they write back, "Oh, thank you, maybe I will go to the event." I just send another video message like, "Yeah, if you have any questions." And then we systemized this because there was no. So, I built a team around that and there was like pre-recorded video messages of me talking about objections and things. And my my team was sending these things in and we just made a lot of money from this. So, maybe if you guys with the Credit Brothers, for example, you guys are prec some messages and just make, uh, the follow-up really personal as you said. Because getting a test, but getting a video, getting a voice message. And I did not test this, but I have seen there is, um, in ManyChat, you can actually send, um, a voice message. And when I've seen that, I was like, "This is crazy." So, you guys can record some, uh, voice messages from the Credit Brothers and then just put in the ManyChat sequence. But I did not test this, but when I've seen that, it's purely looks like you just send the voice message. And you can do that.

Yeah.

Yeah. How, uh, how specific are you? Like, are those like, when you, when you were doing it, how were, what were you talking about?

It's just general.

Handling was it just like?

No, it's just like instead of saying a message like, "Yo, did you click the link yet?" You'd be like, "Yo, it's Chris. Just wanted to check back in."

Do you have any questions? Do you have? Yeah, it's just Ron. I just wanted to check in. Do you have any questions regarding the problem, uh, the the program? Because I'm, I'm, I'm here to help. Boom. That's the first video. They're like, "Oh, I got a video from from Roland." So, was like, they were surprised. But this one, this ManyChat audio, I'm, I'm really interested in this one. So, I, I will test this one next because it's just like looks exactly like, imagine like Alex doing that and then you just click, I don't know, "Book." You comment "Book" on Alex's video and then you get the voice message from Alex. You're like, you know that it's not from him in this scenario, but.

If you did the scenario.

Yeah, I'll do the 3-second call.

Imagine Alex just going, he's in the bathroom just testing it out.

Why haven't you bought my book?

You hate me. That would be my voice memo. So, you hate me.

Uh, but you hate me.

All right, cool. I feel like we hit, we hit conversion a little bit. Yeah. Okay, cool. Great. Bazang. Bazang. All right, let's look at, uh, let's look at our handy-dandy list real quick. Brutal. Great. Um, do you want to go? We had low ticket, high ticket. Do you want to talk about that?

Yeah. Okay, we'll go low ticket, high ticket.

All right. Who here runs a low ticket and a high ticket to start out? Cool. So, um, what has worked well for you to convert?

A lot of people go low ticket first and try to upsell the high ticket.

Uhhuh. We go free, a high ticket.

Whoever can afford the high ticket, low ticket.

Cool.

Cool.

Is that what Samuel Herp's doing? Or is he doing free group to low ticket to high ticket?

I think on some of his posts he goes directly low ticket, some he goes book high ticket. Yeah. Does a mix of both?

I mean, I like that model. That's how I prefer to do things as well.

What was that model?

Free. Sell the expensive thing. If they can't afford it, downsell to the low ticket.

Because what we find is if you sell people in the low ticket,

They might not want to buy the high ticket.

They have everything they need. They don't need the high ticket.

But what the trick though is, we, if you sell, trying to sell someone on high ticket and if they feel like they're being downgraded to low ticket, they don't really want it. Like, "No, but I want the high ticket thing." Cuz that's.

What if it's a system like your high ticket is like built upon your lower ticket? Do you know what I mean? Like it's a.

It is.

I've got something interesting about that, by the way, cuz I used to have Accelerator, UpLevel, Quantum. It was like two grand, six grand, 36 grand, right? And I would market cold. I'd only ever tell people about like Accelerator, the first one. And then I was expecting people to upsell from Accelerator to the middle one and then from the middle one to the high one. At one point I was curious, so I just started running ads straight to the middle one and it did better for selling the middle one, by the way. Um, and then I was like, "Oh, I'll just drop that first one then." And it's because a lot of those people weren't interested in the 2K. They were just looking for the six, right? And they didn't know I had a six because it was hidden after this other thing. And then I tested it even more. I was like, "How far can I take this thing?" So, I killed both products and only sold the 36 and just ran Facebook ads straight to the 36. And I even told people in the ad that it was $36,000. And it worked better than selling people into the middle one and then up to that one. And some people would email me and say, "I didn't even know you had a mastermind until you just told me." Yeah. They said they saw the other offers, but they were never interested in those. So, I think it's cool to have some synergy between your offers because some people will come into that one and then naturally progress to that one. But if you think about it, someone looking for a mastermind isn't interested in a low ticket a lot of the time.

Right?

Yeah. So,

The trick there, but this is a little nuance, is if you're trying to sell someone a high ticket and then they can't afford it, they often times don't even want low ticket because they want the high thing. So, what we found instead of saying like, "Okay, well, we can at least get you into our low ticket." We say, "Okay, well, we can hold this price for you, this discounted price. All you got to do is put down this monthly deposit, and this monthly deposit will get you access to myself, my team, all this access to all this course." So, to them, it feels like they're paying a deposit to secure that high ticket price. Meanwhile, they're now paying monthly for the low ticket.

Sam, did you end up killing the first two courses and just doing the mastermind? Like, you only had Quantum.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. In the end, that's all I had. One mastermind with 100 people paying $36,000.

So, you didn't even like, you didn't even downsell. It wasn't like high ticket, downsell, down. It was just like high ticket.

Dude, in the end, I didn't even do payment plans. It was 36k and I didn't even do calls. I said, "If you want to buy it, email me."

Wow. Wow.

And they send me an email. And I got the most qualified people ever. They were like, "I'm interested in in buying this." And I was like, "Cool. Do you want to do a wire or use a card?"

Over email?

I'll toss this out there, which is that you had built.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Like I just started running this thing. I said, "Alex has a mastermind." All of a sudden, everyone's pay, like, you don't need to do any of this other stuff, like, just as a, you know.

But just to show you over time, you can start to like refine.

Yeah.

Okay. Was that cold or retargeting for the 36k on ads?

In the end, I didn't even need to run ads. Honestly, in the last year I ran it, all I would do is send an email every now and then and every now and then make a YouTube video that actually just pitched the mastermind. And I was so lazy with it that I didn't even make a VSSL. I just pull up, I called it a Google Doc Loom, right? I got a Google Doc and I wrote the bullet points of what you get and then I recorded a Loom and talked, read out the bullet points and jumped into the community and said, "Look, here's what we do every week. We do these Q&A calls. Here's the recordings. These are the type of people that are in here. Look at the posts. We do quarterly events. Here's the calendar. We record them. Look, here's some recordings. We get the food truck to come bring some food. We had tacos last time." Um, just literally show them what it is.

Major selling point.

Was this recently or how long ago?

No, no, this is this is like years ago.

It worked really well. Like I did, I gave myself a challenge. Do not use copywriting or marketing or buzzwords. Just be as direct as possible. And instead of trying to explain what it is or give a concept or a theory, just show them. So, I would literally just bring up photos and and things and just because then people can see exactly what the hell it is, right? And it worked so well and it was so effortless to do.

Yeah. Simple.

So, like.

Yeah.

Cuz obviously you couldn't start there, right? Like, just immediately you just start running ads on Facebook and you're like, "Yo, email me $36k upfront, nothing else." If you were to start again, because I know you talked about how, um, in the past you talked about like the ideal business model is like.

You have like the course or high ticket that upsells into a mastermind. Is that still how you would structure something?

It all depends what you want.

Yeah. At that point I was looking for extreme simplicity because I was trying to build school so I didn't want anything to take my time away.

Right. Um, but it all depends on the goal.

What's the revenue goal of most people in here? Is it

Yeah, that would be interesting. What do you What do you want to make a month?

I mean, I'd say

and do the realistic one, not the as much money as humanly possible because like Yeah.

I mean, like I think realistically like the opportunity we have in the business, if we take it to the maximum potential, it's like, you know, nine figures plus

a month.

Well, no, but a year. So, I guess eight figures a month. Whose goal is 100K a month? 200K, 300, 400, 500, a million a month,

less than 100k.

And I think it's important to think about profit too because you can make 100. I I met a lot of people that made 100 grand a month and made nothing.

Like they were really common actually.

Yeah. All of just so you guys know, all of our goals are based on ibida. So profit

pro

profit. Yeah.

I'll just do that.

So for our company, for our portfolio, I don't like I only care about profit.

So yeah, again like 100 grand profit like that. Whose goal is that?

Sweet. Doable.

So yeah. Oh, it it honestly depends where you are. if you've got a big audience, if you don't. But I think there's no getting around have not having an audience, I think, of some kind. Like either partner with someone that has one. I think that's the fastest way. Honestly, if you find someone with a big audience that doesn't like business, go be the business person. Um, YouTube and podcasts and email list are probably like the highest quality. So, just start building that ads. Uh our YouTube's like 5K of like all niche people and then we have an email list of like 7K. Um so it's not like huge but for our market it's pretty big.

Yeah.

I mean gym launch at when we're doing I mean it still does this but like like on the way up just so you have an idea at that time. Um I think our list was like 60k and we're doing 4 million a month.

Do you all run like do you guys have like a email marketing team? We've got a massive email list and we haven't really even started email marketing because we're like that's

who are you asking?

20,000 on our list. Oh, you're asking everyone

email marketing team that does it or you guys just do your own email sequencing

and that's what I wanted to ask actually add to this topic uh to the low ticket high ticket because for us uh we are always trying to segment our email list to so what I do you guys heard me talk about webinars but that's what I'm specialized in so that's why I'm saying it again when I do a webinar optin usually I do like first name email and then I always do a third one that is uh that that's that's the third one where I segment the list. So for example, if I do something like business consulting or business related, I just do what's your um what's your monthly revenue right now and they just like zero to 1K, 1 to 3K, 3K plus, I know 10K plus and then in like we use go high level. So in go high level we can make like 10k plus different it's a different email sequence and then maybe and also we do that uh so for example for if if uh if he puts uh 10k plus then it goes straight into the uh CRM because we usually ask also for telephone number they support and then there is a sales guy is just like calling him so reaching out and for low ticket we just send an a different email sequence that is goes to webinar because we are like we want to sell on a in a group setting for low ticket and we want sell personally in the high ticket setting. That that worked really well actually for us.

To give you context, usually you can convert like 1% of your list per month.

So,

you don't send any emails to your list right now?

No.

Do you make YouTube videos?

No.

Okay. The only way I could consistently email my list is I would make a YouTube video once a week, which I still didn't do. Um, and then email my list about it. Hope I just made this video. Go check it out and link them to it.

Yeah, we kind of started doing that with our webinar.

That's what we do is we do two like direct call to actions a week and then two YouTube videos. So, it's like a little like, you know, what is it? Left jab, right hook or whatever. So, like give ask.

Yeah, exactly.

You think um

left jab, right hook.

Yeah, right. I think I think we can um with the AI the AI stuff that's out now um all your all the videos everybody here makes videos of some sort, right? Yeah. It's like you can you can transcribe them and then clean them up in like three seconds and so and then just like you can have it summarize your own [ __ ] and send it to them. It's just it's I I would say like level one of email for everyone here is like just get the automated flows done. So just make the 16-day or the 30-day uh automation for the two or three segments of your list. Like we sort to I have do you want to sell your company? Do you trying to grow your company? Are you trying to start a company? And so they go to different flows like the start a company goes to school right and the content it's like whatever. If it's you know start a business it's like we started running workshops here. Uh sorry scale a business. And then if it's I want to sell then they go to my investment team.

If you guys get automated emails do you read them?

Yes. Yeah. Really?

Especially if they were personal.

Yeah.

Like all lowercase subject line.

You make them good emails.

Yeah.

I always

But what if it's like one a day?

Yes.

You still read them?

I wonder why you don't email me more.

I know.

I'm like, dude, what is this guy on about? I don't think I've ever gotten an email from you. And I would read them like,

dude, if I if someone emails me once a month, I get pissed.

I'm the opposite. We, you know,

like I come from like uh like cold calling. They like it's industry standard to double double dial dial back to back text message email like if you don't

blow people up with the comp competition out there you'll be homeless like straight up.

So like

when I when I like get content from people that I actually like there's a very short list of people that like I would actually listen to. So that's not the truth for everybody. But when you guys bring like like valuable business content and it's like especially if you send out a video like Sam Sam doesn't post frequently. Sam post is I'm gonna be like, "Oh shit." Like same same with Alex. Like, "Well, you post a lot actually now." Yeah. Yeah. That changed. Um, but if he emails me and he's like, "Hey, dude, check this out." Whatever it is, I'm going to click on it.

If I do email, it's like, "This is a really good video show."

Yeah. It's usually fire. You guys know uh Sabry Subie, all guy. A1 for emails. Like the best emails I've ever seen.

Said S tier.

Yeah. Ser tier.

I would highly s What's the name of that guy?

Sabry Subugi. He's Australian. How do I

S A B R I?

But he loves these email automations. But to other people,

like if you if you opt into something,

it's the trust factor. He only is opening those cuz he loves you guys. It's not He's not opening all these.

Yeah, you guys spit heat. Like I'm not opening like TJ Maxx's email. Like I don't I don't give a crap about what they're

I'll just say this. If you if you let your customers know that you exist more frequently, they will be have a higher likelihood of purchasing your product. And the people who read emails read emails. The people who don't I don't read email. Everybody on my team, I have no email. I hate email. Um and so I just overlook the the opt-in flow. And I've been also meaning to email my list at some point eventually. I know. I'll work on it.

You literally send a video on it. I know. I just Yeah. But the point is is like the people who read email will click and read and if they don't whatever but the amount that do is greater than nothing and if it's a one-time setup and if you're worried about like I don't want to spam them and send like two a week for for eight weeks like whatever you can change the like you can just look at your unsub unsubscribe ratio and your like as long as you you can manage this with metrics like if my open rate's high and my unsubscribe rates low then people are getting value from the emails as long as I'm you know consistently sending them.

So a question about that this model. You had made a comment that you prefer this one. Um have you seen other ones that work as a like for example right we only have a low ticket right now. We don't have free. We used to have a medium ticket converted it to the low ticket. So I'm questioning what first off what do you think would be more important to focus on high ticket or free?

And then what would be a mechanism to create either one? And should there be a leverage of our current low ticket to do so? I tend to build businesses back to front um under the assumption I already have flow. So if I have no flow, then I create flow first. So that's like that's the low barrier, that's the offer, that's the free group, that's the whatever. And then I build LTV up and keep building LTV with basically modest amounts of advertising. And then once LTV is skyhigh, then I jam all of that back into advertising. And then I I run.

Are people in your low ticket asking for some higher level of support? So it's not necessarily a higher level of support in a way. It's actually a different value that they want that we don't currently include.

Yeah. So what are they saying?

So for example, we don't include anything about business credit or business funding in our credit community.

Yeah. But what are they saying?

They're saying that they want information related to that. They want support related

related to business credit.

Yeah. So, it's a way personal to entrepreneur. So they're business people not individuals.

No, they are individuals but in the

Yeah, that's obviously but um they're individuals and business.

Yeah, there is a mix and it seems like a portion of them are

okay.

Looking for that type of business side

and have they said what they would pay? Have you talked to them about it?

So we have so we've surveyed them, right? We haven't actually spoken to a lot of them because this is just this was just a thought that's been brewing for the media.

Talk to them. Just be like, "Well, tell me what that would look like." Like, let them literally like do it for you cuz they know what they want. So, just talk to them and they'll start to say, "And then what would that be worth to you? How much would you pay for something like that?"

All right, I'll think about it.

That's what you end with.

And then you do it to more people. And then you're like, "Okay, if I did this, it would get this." And then you can decide if you want to do it.

So it sounds like market research through the community that we built on the low ticket model to see what they would want. So those are like the people that have already bought, right? But do you see do you find value in the people that haven't bought anything yet like researching that?

I like to start with something that's already there. Otherwise, I always know that I'm I risk fabricating something in my mind. So, if someone's already saying like, I need this and that's a trend. I'm like, okay, there's something here. I just need to like I'm not hallucinating. There's there's a need here. Now, I just need to understand it, right? And I get the detail of it. And then I'm like, do I want to do this or not?

Or they're purchasing it from someone else. they've bought from you in the next sign.

They go and buy from somebody else and you're like, "Damn, that's our next step."

Cuz we don't offer it and they need it to be successful. So, they're going elsewhere to get it.

They're often doing both. They're asking you for it and because you're not giving it to them, they're going and buying it from someone else. Yeah.

By the way, that is the best retention strategy. Sell them. Good.

So, with uh with our audience, kind of like we said, we kind of have that mixed bag where we have really a majority of like kind of like that one entrepreneur of like people that want to start a business, but then we also do have people that are running million-dollar companies or that they're doing really well. Would it almost be advantageous to like and obviously one of our p like main points of our community is the live calls with the entrepreneurs that we've already kind of established that there needs to be a higher price point for that because it's just unbelievable at 37. Would it almost be advantageous to like drive people to a free or to like a high ticket like with that as kind of like the core offer for those like

I think you need to make a decision which is like do you want to sell to entrepreneurs who are trying to go from seven to eight figures and beyond and then you have this mentorship you know community for $500 to $1,000 a month. I think that because there's no process and there's no program and it's varied people that are coming in like the value would be lower. But the because like if a garage door guy comes in comes on it's like okay I have to really chunk up what he's explaining for it to be valuable for me. And if I'm a beginner it's really just entertainment because it's just in no way applicable to my life. And so fundamentally like you guys sell entertainment as though it's education for the avatar that you guys are selling to. And so I think the decision is do I want to help starters start in which case that's the whole promise or do I want to help like you know bigger entrepreneurs go higher and then the price point has to be dramatically different than what it is. But in your in your case, you could use these like if you were to go into beginner entrepreneurs, you could use these eight n figure earners as like inspiration, right? Like get to know them, get behind the scenes, but get started. That could be your ultimate goal. Or flip it and go these are the guys you're learning from. Scale rapidly from six or seven to eight or nine.

Just uh kind of roping back when you said you build you like to build businesses back to front. You're referring to focusing on the high ticket and then focusing on everything else.

Well, I say back to front, I really just LTB.

I want I want to absolutely optimize LTB to get as high as I possibly can so that I can then advertise my face off.

Okay. What What would that be like? Like like a dumb down version.

So, the things that are going to influence LTV are going to be price and churn. Those are the two things within a within the context of a um a digital recurring membership because you don't have real costs. Um, and so you either lower churn or raise price or a combination. And so the larger question then becomes, is there an avatar that I'm not serving that I should be serving? Which then creates kind of the new category of the upsell. And so if you know 20% of people from thing one go to thing two and the upsell is 5x the price, then LTV doubles because one out of five go up, price is 5x. I doubled LTV and then whatever your cost to your car customer is right now, if you're profitable, then it's like you double the profitability.

Alex, I'm curious about one thing you said earlier. Um, you said something that was that was very interesting about how and I think Sam touched on this too about like people wanting prices that are lower or not prices, I'm sorry, they're wanting lower revenue numbers or like even income numbers like profit

for beginner avatars.

Okay,

caveat. I have no give zero [ __ ] around something, right? No, but like it's important. It's not all people. It's just that most people are at zero. And so if I'm looking at a page and I'm advertising, then having lower numbers will convert a higher percentage for most people because most people have nothing.

Okay. Because most of our avatars are like maybe making a few G's a month before they come to us.

Yeah. I'm not talking $500 a month to gym owners,

right?

Because they're like, "Well, I already make a lot more than that because I have a brick and mortar business."

So if I'm talking to flooring guys, it's going to be more, you know, appropriate for you guys. It's like we add on average $100,000 in profit per year. uh

in 12 months. That's our average. And so вот for somebody who's making 30K a year, which is the net profit average for a brick and mortar gym owner, is triple their income. So they're like, "Fuck yeah, I'm interested."

And you show like one thing that you said that was like the the contrast between big winners and like

biggest, not losers, but like lowest successful person. One of my best campaigns of all time and I still run this angle obviously because I'm doing it for hook for for school. Um is what about the bottom 20? And so because fundamentally like I figure the big fear that every customer has is that they're going to fail. And so it's like I'd rather just confront it headon and then like let's talk about it. I was like and I always it's like listen I could talk about John who added 1.4 million to his gym and I could talk about Sandy who did it in six months. I was like but if you thought that was going to happen for you you'd already have bought. And I was like, and I could talk about the average gym makes an extra $100,000 a year, but if you knew that and you believed me, you probably would have bought already. So that means that you think you're below average. And so let's just talk about the bottom 20% of gyms that join gym launch. So the bottom 20% of gyms make $40,000 uh per year. I was like, and we cost about 40 grand a year. I was like, so they pretty much break even. I was like, "So, if that's if if that's a downside you're okay with, then schedule a call

with um the high ticket thing because basically we have we switched from doing just the 997 a month to like 3k up front. They get two months and then basically we're going to do $9.97 a month. It's kind of like the gym launch level of ads management where it's like the same for everyone else. So, it's pretty like low effort on our end.

So, $9.97 a month for them to continue that. Um, I've had some people in my community community that aren't making as much because like9.97 a month is like it's pretty high ticket for most people. They've asked for like a lower ticket where they could still get the coaching and then not have us run their ads. Would you recommend like do you think that would be a distraction or is it just like

Well, if it's just you charge them less and they don't get a service, I don't see it as a distraction.

Okay. So, they want if you're already providing those other things then I don't see it as an issue at all.

Okay. Cool. Cool.

Yeah, I think it's fine. I just don't want to add something to then like

Yeah. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like I want to say like I have seven things and you guys get all seven and these guys get three,

but I'm still doing the same seven. So like what changes about my activities? If it's zero, then I'm fine to sell.

Yeah,

that makes sense.

Yeah.

I'm just curious. So like for us, for example, like I I mean we'd have to talk about it, but I personally would probably prefer to deal with like the higher level entrepreneur and probably sell, you know, $500 to $1,000 price point. I just think I'd enjoy it more. Um

you could also get on the phone. Yes. Yes. So, pretty much I'm just thinking for our existing community that we already have, it's cash flow. We have a bunch of members in there already. Would you just transfer all those members into that next level or would you transfer them into with the free community? What would you do with the existing base that we already have on school?

We're adding annual like very soon, which will change things by the way in terms of ticket price. Like if your thing was 40 bucks, that's almost 500.

Yeah.

For an annual annual. Yeah,

as soon as we have annual, it's going to change everything for everyone here.

It might be out. It'll definitely be out by the time we do this next event. It could be out in two to 3 weeks or sooner, honestly.

Not spicy.

Wow.

Yeah, definitely.

Make some money on that.

And you can you will be able to set it as the only option too, by the way. So, you could only offer annual like $9.99 per year. And the reason we only do it for a year is because we're looking for somebody who's committed because listen, you're not going to start a business and be successful in 30 days. Anybody who's selling you that's lying to you. All right? So, if you commit to a year, then I know that you're serious about it. And then the likelihood that you actually hear goals is a lot higher.

Yeah.

And that's a promise I can stand behind.

So, that changes a lot because it could be essentially the same offer but just priced differently, right? Yeah.

Will that coexist with the monthly though?

Yeah, it can. Or you can just force people into annual.

Cool.

Right. I think she just asked my I I just didn't hear it, but I think she just asked the same question. Is there going to be like an option because

Yeah,

you can have both or you can just force Daniel if you want.

So, I'm sorry, just to go back to that real quick. Is so we we have, you know, 1,200 members in there right now. What What would you guys kind of do if you guys were us um this anyone we can go for anyone with if we wanted to go to that high ticket kind of sell to the more high level entrepreneur with the current community that we have?

1,200 people paying how much? uh 30 to 37

and and probably the majority of them are not that high level entrepreneur like they like even though like we probably prefer to sell to the high level entrepreneur like the like what do you do with the the current members that are

do you like looking after this do you like the community?

I I like it. Yeah.

it's cool.

Yeah.

But you want why do you want to change it then?

Uh well I think it's more in the sense of like what I feel like we talked about today. I think going to that one market of either you're going to sell to like beginners or high level entrepreneurs. I think that it there's a kind of like a a struggle of interest there like a

I think you'd have to change your whole content strategy. You guys have nailed reaching beginner people that are just getting started. You've nailed it. Like you were in top 0.01% of success stories with audience growth. And I think selling to more advanced entrepreneurs, you'd have to have a content strategy like Alex is. So I I I think you've built an audience perfect for selling to beginner entrepreneurs.

You guys do affiliates, too. You'll like crank it. Like if you I think Alex was talking about having like five different paths. It was like Shopify. Like you know the affiliates on Shopify are crazy.

Go high level. We could sell Go High Level. Insane. School has good affiliates too.

Crazy. 40%.

Um, everyone that

crazy

everyone that joins our community, they join our go high level. It's like 97 a month on top of and then there's other affiliates that they pay. So like just builds and builds and builds, but you guys have more volume than us. So like if you get half of those people on something and you get a $40 a month affiliate,

which by the way, you do that by onboarding them.

Yeah, but why do you want to change it? Did you answer that

is make more money? Sorry, I was just going to jump.

Is that But is that really why?

Well, no. I mean, I I just feel like right now there's a there's a there's no real clear cut like clear promise what people will get because you get people that have run seven.

So, you want there you want your offer to be more clear.

I guess you say that. Yeah.

Is that really it? Because I'm trying to figure out what we're even doing.

Uh I mean I guess the best

I think I think part of the problem is like we would prefer to sell to like that high ticket entrepreneur because like you know you'll make more money. It's like less people to work with, but then our audience and kind of like Kirby said, like our content is like perfect for that beginner entrepreneur.

How big is this audience?

Six and a half million.

Okay.

And the reach is crazy. It's like people have

So you shouldn't like just throw that out. I think I think you should play to your strength, which is you've got a huge organic beginner audience.

Sell them the ideal product. You will always have the opportunity to do the higher ticket thing. By the way, every high ticket person wishes they had a base of 6 and a half million subscribers. Honestly, like that's that's their dream. So, if you build that low-level infrastructure first, you can always do high ticket later and you will do better than everyone doing it. You just got to build the layers over time, right? Um, so I would figure out what do the beginners want? What does that say?

Sounds like a variation of like Hustles University just to like your audience.

So like the promise here is start a business. So that's what you need to help these people do because that's what they all want. As soon as Bill annual comes out like have that option and then I would test only having the option versus having both options because if you have it if you just have it it's usually 10 to 15% of people will just take it just to get the savings. So even if just for context, if 15% of people take something that's 12 times as expensive, it's like you double your upfront cash. So that could be really big for a lot of people. Um onboarding to the greatest degree possible, I would start doing onboarding. And so how many people do you sell a day?

Um anywhere between like 10 and 20 people today. Like so when gym launch was scaling up I I remember asking my team I was like hey are they clicking all of our affiliate links and they were like well some people are some bar and we had like I don't know this is very early like 100 200 members and I was like doing the math I was like I should be making you know 50 grand a month off this just in affiliate commissions and I'm making like five. I was like this sucks. And so then I thought about I was like oh I could just hire someone whose entire job is to make sure that they just click the affiliate links. And so my onboarding team got covered by like when we would do the onboarding, they would just pull up the screen and be like, "Click this link. Sign this up for here. Sign up for here. Sign up for here. You're gonna need all these. Sign up for here. Sign up for here." And they would just get all four would be immediately attributed to me for the whole community. We just did that for years. And so for you guys, you will you might make just as much off or probably more I mean if it was school um off the affiliate commissions than you will off the off the these

members will be able to be affiliates for your for this product soon

as well.

So that gives them a way to make money too and that'll grow. I don't think you need to change what you're doing other than what's here and making your offer like

clear

how they can make 10 grand a month. the other stuff can still be there as entertainment because you need motivation when you're a beginner, right?

Um,

but you should have a difference between like motivation versus like

do this

do this thing. Yeah.

A core component of that is like we are having like those highle entrepreneurs that are doing eight nine figures come out and speak to the community, but it's like very clear that like for 37 a month like that's a way too low of a price point for that kind of offering. And it's also it's it's entertainment.

Not if it's considered motivation entertainment. Netflix is cheap cheaper than that. And there's a lot of [ __ ] on Netflix.

Masterclass has like Gordon Ramsay and people for like 15 bucks a month.

Yeah.

You guys kind of have like um I mean cuz I Godzy, Charlie Morgan, Andrew T, they all sell to beginners and they make like crazy money. Um but you guys have the traffic already. If you like you guys get affiliates, it would be insane. it for I mean this is probably a better question for you Sam. Do you kind of know where like the affiliate is on like the road map for school like for for individual communities?

Yeah, it's after annual and I'm still debating about free trials like should we even bother with those or should we just go straight to affiliates?

Probably affiliates.

Yeah.

Yeah. So then that could be very soon. I could be done with annual in two to three weeks. So, I could start on affiliates in two to three weeks. Um,

I will say like we we've had a lot of DMs of people that like like they'll go on the call and like tag us in our story and it's like they'll post it on their story and be like you have an affiliate link that I can use cuz my friends are swiping up on my story be like yo how can I hop on? It's like and they want incentivization as well. It's just like we don't have an affiliate program there.

Oh, I would love nothing more than to have our own affiliate.

Yeah. That'll help with your attention, too, cuz the way I'm designing the affiliate system is if you cancel, you lose your commission.

So, if you want to keep your commission, you got to keep paying.

Yeah,

that's great.

What's up?

Yeah, I had a a question on the onboarding. So, uh because we at least right now are doing launches, we had hundreds of people join and then zero people join. So for those onboarding calls, which you know, we have affiliate links as well. Uh you know, credit cards pay pretty good. Most of the time people just simply don't use our credit card links to begin with. Um so that's a lot of money that's being left on the table. Are those I mean obviously you already said that your onboarding calls are video Zoom calls walking people through, but how do you how do you do that at scale? Like if you're doing three 400 people, how do you have an onboarding call for

Well, you do more. And like I think most people they have a pretty high volume community but like 10 to 20 a day is really really manageable. Like you could like many businesses sign 10 to 20 customers a day and you just like onboard all of them. Like I had a single brick-andmortar gym and I'd sell 10 to 20 memberships a day and I [ __ ] onboarded every single customer.

You just bring out an employee to deliver kind of like a

you pay another human being to do something for you.

One to one verse one to 30.

So we know I'll just tell you this. So we know so one of our portfolio companies uh does a huge volume of sales so they do two and a half million a week context um and it's a consumer product so really you know not not mega ticket um and so we had uh first there was no onboarding when I bought the business and then it was like all right let's just get group onboarding in and then I got them to one on six and that cut uh refund rate charge back like everything just doing one six when we went from oneon- six to oneonone one which is what we recently did last quarter for this business. Um like across the board improvements for everything NPS score like all the way through. And so I highly like you can if you want to master turn one of the the first things you can focus on is just onboarding customers well which is like reiterate the promise. Make sure that that you've resold them on the goal. Tell them what the next steps look like.

Set expectations. Would that be something you would consider? Is it a price point?

I'm a bad person to ask because I think I'm all for just working. So, I'm bad on that.

[ __ ]

But like if you're selling $99 a month and you're selling 20 people a day, then like have one person who takes 10 calls a day.

By the way, your about page conversion rate is insane.

The school of hard knocks. This offer I think this offer is better than you think by I just looked at the stats. I can show them at lunch, but I wouldn't kill this offer.

So, you're just not getting anyone to click. Is that the issue?

It's the offer in their content, not the offer in their about page that needs to change.

What's the conversion on the about

4.2%.

Which is really high for that price point. Um, and your churn is really low for like Yeah, this this offer could crash. It's probably just not getting enough traffic.

Yeah.

Like I I I just like one of the things which is why like audience conversion was one of the biggest things we wanted to come is like we have six and a half million people only, 1250 members.

Well, I went to your socials and I couldn't find your school link. So then I had to try five Google searches to find your school so I could look at your stats.

Yeah. Most your customers don't know your thing exists.

I had to try for four minutes to find your community. So there

maybe that's the first step here.

Link in bio.

Are you not doing it right now? is is and we should just probably just kill this completely is right now we're dropping we're driving everyone to a landing page that we did for launch and on that what we've been doing is if they like are interested there's like a short BSL with just like benefits and just typical landing page is they click like I'm interested and then we'll get their contact info email phone number and then they'll go to the uh the school page uh but maybe instead we should just go straight to the to the school

make school your landing page

yeah then that would it's hidden so like no one can even see Yeah,

but that's why the conversion rate is so high.

Yeah, I was going to say like that's where the 4% comes from.

So maybe it's still room for improvement

because by the time they get there, they're they already

if you measure total So think about it this way. Measure total number of clicks that go to your landing page and then divide that by how many people are buying because that's the actual throughput of the conversion on your clicks. And that page is about to convert a lot better because we're doing like card abandon emails, Apple Pay, Google Pay. Like we're going to optimize the [ __ ] out of that page. So

is the turn thing you did systemwide already?

Yeah.

Have you guys noticed your turn started going down?

Well,

I noticed uh I mean with the with the

They don't have a metric. Oh, well,

have you noticed you're making more money

with with the churn? I mean, something that would be helpful at least uh on the integration side is like some way to integrate school with like GHL where if they churn like if they have a car decline because that was another area uh that we didn't really realize how many car declines there are. um like a tag could get associated with a GHL with an automatic message that gets sent from like one of the founders so it feels more personal and like a email sequence and that's been really challenging because we've had to do

so if the goal is just to make the churn better come to me at lunch and we can look at what the churn is because I've got the data

okay

we've already lowered people's churn by like at least 10% in the past 3 weeks Like Evelyn's gone from 20 to five um over the three over three months. Um Hams has gone down a lot. Like his churn's cut in half right now. Um a lot of So with the things we're doing, we're just not telling you about it, but we're doing all kinds of we're doing all kinds of things that are like massively reducing churn. So you don't need to set up these crazy automations because we're just doing it behind the scenes. I guess I mean we we only have one month of data so it probably is not going to be super

plus recently by the way if you look at a decline and click on it we just shipped this on Thursday we show you exactly why it declined cuz there's many different types of decline we call it decline details and it says exactly what it is so you can see cuz we found that like 70% of declines were insufficient funds and everyone was complaining to us saying your billing system isn't working everyone's declining owning, but they thought it was just our system failing, but it was a lot of the time it's insufficient funds, right? Um, so now you can see exactly why things are declining, and then we tell you exactly what our system's doing. We say how many charge attempts we've done, how many emails we've we've sent, and we give you the ability to manually retry the charge three times. That's all in there right now. That shipped on Thursday. Yeah. Go go go into your community, find a decline, click on it, and you'll see it.

Yeah, we've done a lot of decline. Collect money.

Did you see the feature?

I haven't yet.

Okay. Did anyone see it?

Oh, you guys saw it. The decline.

I like the the feature where you can put the video when people go to cancel.

Dude, that made an insane difference. The people that have videos on their cancel pages, they're theirs is 16% better than people that don't. So, we we improved Churn by 10% just without the video. But the people that added the video, the best one I've seen is this guy who's got a a relationships community.

And the churn video is him crying in the shower saying saying, "Please don't leave me,"

which fits so well. It's only like 45 seconds.

There's no script or anything. He's just sitting in the shower and it just says like, "Please don't leave me." And there's like a heartbroken thing

and it's it cut their churn so much. It's insane. And it's like funny.

Everyone like one easy thing to do. Please just do that. Turn it on. Get a video.

All right.

It doesn't need to be a script or a pitch. It can literally just be funny. It changes their mood. They're in this like cancel mood and then you they see something they're like

desperate, right? Like

Yeah.

So [ __ ] clever. We can talk talk about churn like later, but we've made serious progress on that. I'm I'm quite confident now that we can cut churn in half from what it was and double the conversion rate of the about page. I'm curious for like the higher ticket 99.97 offers or $9.99 because like I hear people talking about oh you know 5% churn this and that like I'm not seeing anywhere close to that. Like

at 97 it's pretty high.

5% churn is very good. Yeah.

By the way, most people's churn is more like 20%

to up to 30%. Um, if your churn is good if you're below 20

and because by the way if you go to if you just Google stripe industry churn rates just to look at the industry standards for consumer and everything and consumer just across the board it's 20 to 30%.

Right.

Yeah. Um, and like B2B SAS is like five to 10. And so like there's different things, but I if you're below 20, I think you're doing good. If you're below 10, you're doing something exceptional. And if you're five or below, you've got like you're like one of the best.

For like the 997, I think we're close to like we're definitely above 50 like from the first month.

So that means your offer is wrong. People were buying for one thing.

I see.

For us to set up their ads and then they got it and then some of them are like, "Okay, well, I want you to keep running them." So, a percentage of people stay, but it's like a lot of people got in and then they got out, it seemed. And so, that's kind of why we switched to the high ticket. We get three months up

like once for it.

Yeah. High ticket or high what do you what do you say like short big head long tail?

Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. But Jack and I were talking about it. You you seem to have a pretty good churn on 97.

Yeah, it's pretty good honestly. Um it's only probably higher because of trying to win the school games to sign up more people honestly. Um because I drive the revenue for them. They need a lot of money to live inside of their business. People can do 20 30k. They're making zero from employees, overhead, supplies. I need to be at least

I think the best I've seen at the 997 price point is 15% churn.

Yeah, that's the best I've seen at that price point.

And that guy makes is that are you talking about the trading

trading? Yeah,

he makes daily like he doesn't have a course. Every day he drops a new piece of content

cuz it's day trading. So day trading

it's very real time.

So you need to stay because every as soon as you cancel you don't get

The value. Whereas with a course, you watch it, you get the value, and then you don't get the value anymore.

That's really clever. Like the market changes. So it's like do this today is what you're saying, basically.

Alex, can you say again what you were the onboarding while was reducing the churn rate, like keeping people on? Can you finish that sentence?

Yeah. Um, so you resell them on the goal, their specific goal. You reset expectations. Um, resell them on the promise. Reiterate the plan. You basically kind of like do a mini like, "Okay, great. You're here now and I'm going to kind of say it again to you." Um, and then you walk them through next steps. You give them homework. This is my recommendation. Give them homework that they need to complete, which should orient towards an activation point. And so for most, so this is this is me just speaking in general terms. I think one or two ago, we talked really in depth about churn. And um, most of you guys probably see that people who turn are like level one or level two in your community, but people like level three and four probably don't like turn that much. Uh, and so if that's the case, then it's like, okay, well then how do we like, and you can get someone from level one to level three in like an hour or two? Like it's not hard to do that. And so then the homework orients around what what takes this person from a high likelihood turn candidate to a lower likelihood turn candidate. And then the the the tasks that you give them orient to that outcome. It's like fundamentally like that's how churn is solved. So you try and like churn is a outcome, not the thing. You can't like fix churn. You do things and then churn goes down, right? Um, and so it's like, okay, in order to figure out churn, we have to then look backwards and say, okay, what are the things that people who didn't churn did and who are they? So who are they and what did they do? And then the people who did churn, who are they and what did they do? And so we say, okay, well, we need to make sure that or didn't do. We need to get these people to resemble these people. So maybe I need to market a message around this type of persona that is more likely to stick and get value for my community. And then the people who are this persona who also did this thing have a high likelihood of sticking. And so then all of our onboarding activities are to orient the person towards those few things that the people who stuck the longest did.

Yeah. I mean, one of the things that like we implemented in our community, kind of like how Chris was mentioning how when you join ours, there's like a bunch of different pieces of content that don't really like necessarily flow together. It's like a bunch of different options. And so, one of the things we wanted to do to kind of like get people on the same page is one, we do have like a welcome course. So, when they get that welcome DM, it's like, hey, like before you jump in, uh, complete this welcome course and then also join our new member welcome call that we're hosting at this time. So, we're not doing the individual onboarding right now, but we are doing like a one group like onboarding like at the beginning.

It's weekly. Yeah. And so pretty much they come on um, like I'll walk them through like a quick presentation of just kind of like kind of reaffirming the goal like kind of like why you're here like here's how you can get the most value out of the membership like with the features that we have right now. And then I'll pretty much at the end I'll do like a Q&A session as well as like any individual person that is like looking on kind of where to start. I'll like point them like based on their individual situation like here's the content that you really need to focus on. Here's how um, and one of those goals is actually get to level two as soon as possible. And the way they can do that is lally as soon as you get off this call, go introduce yourself in like our networking tab in the group and pretty much like basically like who you're trying to connect with, who you're trying to learn from, things like that. And basically like those people instantly jump to like level two like immediately after that call.

If you want a little hack there, save five minutes at the end of the call and tell them that their ticket to get off the call is that when you see their post.

Wow.

Yeah. Get just get them to do it on the call.

Could you repeat that, please?

So, you're doing an onboarding and you have a quick activity that that immediately, you know, drives them towards activation. Tell them that the only way they get they they're dismissed once they do the first step.

And then you get everyone on the call to like each other's posts.

Yeah. Exactly. So, they immediately get points. They're like, "Oh, wow. This I think if you guys went from weekly to daily and had 10 to 15 people on the call, I can like virtually [ __ ] guarantee it would work.

Because they're like, "Oh, I'm with people. This is cool." And they'll have met other people at least face to face. And that creates more of those ties between members rather than just you guys.

That help?

Good. Cool. Wonderful.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure your community can turn into something pretty badass like by looking at your audience size and the stats you've got already and the fact I couldn't find it. Um, and the fact that you can do all of these other things.

Like that community is going to crush.

Yeah.

It could be one of the best honestly. So, uh, I guess kind of a question that I was going to ask is like because definitely thinking a lot more about like and we have the six and a half million followers, we do 90 to 120 million views a month. And while the vast majority of those are are going to be those people that work a job, they are in that position of, you know, they want to take that leap and start that business because they're clearly consuming the content to learn from those people. I think that I would want to keep that same low ticket offer for those people. But again with those people that do join, but just being more intentional about what they are going to get, who they exactly are going to be talking to and just talking about it way more. Um, is there a route that you would see to upsell to those people in the community that are running?

Maybe I would max this out first.

Yeah, I think that's what Sam would say based on the stats that you guys have.

I'd max this out. Like you've already got something that's good, but there's 20 things you can do that will make it way better. I think it could be there's no reason why this offer couldn't make three 400 grand a month.

Yeah.

Like easily without adding something else.

And then you can still add something else.

And and like would you keep the com like would you keep the mentorship component of how we're inviting people that we interview to like come on and like speak to the the entire community? Like would you keep that as like a thing even though it's like like they can hop on a call and ask a question but it's not necessarily in line with like okay you could start a business in 30 days that sort of.

This one might need more talking. Like I'll help you with this one cuz this one's just too easy. Just talk to me at lunchtime.

Okay.

But this one is good. You don't need to throw this out. You have a massive audience.

So yeah, I'll leave it.

Lunchtime.

Yeah, I think so. Uh, Merc, is lunch ready?

Two minutes.

Two minutes. All right. So, two-minute questions only.

Alex, you mentioned you had a content checklist.

Yeah.

You have a video going over that anymore?

No.

Do you have content of your content checklist?

No, I don't. Yeah, I don't. No, I mean the So, I like checklists for everything. It just makes life a lot easier. Um, and so if you don't already have checklists around a lot, like I don't even really like SOPs because I think no one reads them. Uh, but if you have a checklist that you need to do before doing things, then people are far more likely. And the checklist, the actual checks on the list, if you haven't boiled them down to what the activity is, it's why checklists are useful or useless. And so it's like, you know, Daniel does a a hair check. He does a hair check and then he does a hat check because my my head's uneven. So like my hat like if I wear it for a long time it ends up being like this. I'm like, remind me. And so he has a little list. It's like mic check like cuz sometimes the mics die um, mid session. So just we just go through all the like lighting. I mean, they have the list, not me, but that's the kind of how we start every session.

Checklist Manifesto is a good book that go. Checklist Manifesto is for airline pilots. They go through it. It's a good book. I was uh, I was just kind of curious for uh, people that have challenges in their group to help create more engagement.

Are there things that are better or worse? For instance, we were going to make ch uh like a bi-weekly and a monthly challenge, but we opted not to because I had a lot of uncertainty of like the value of winning monthly is obviously harder than a bi-weekly, but the perceived value I felt was better for the bi-weekly than the the monthly. And so I initially go monetary like give them money, but maybe like I'm just curious like what other people maybe have had success like is it better to give money? Is it better to give something you like we have something behind a paywall like we could give access to that? Is it one-on-ones? Like is it like what type of challenge rewards either for bi-weekly at least for monthly?

I think you're looking for an absolute answer for something that's testable. Okay.

So, yeah. I guess my concern was like if I started with like one thing, like I I feel like I'd be lost.

And if they don't like it, then you can switch it.

Like we we test so much [ __ ]. Like I've just like I get asked a lot of questions about business and the vast majority of them are things where I'm like, I don't know, try it. Like and I have a lot of like business data and anecdotes because I just try a lot of stuff and so I just don't spend a huge amount of time in the analysis period because there's no point.

There's just not like there's just not a lot of like will they like money more than a bonus? Well, I don't think they will like money more than a bonus, but they might like this amount of money more than this bonus. And then if I had a better bonus, they might care about the money less if I had, you know what I mean? It's going to finally be which one is which one of these is more valuable to this specific avatar.

So would you give like an option like hey if you win this like you could have.

I don't think you should do it. Like I think you.

You should yeah, use your instincts and then ask some people that.

Like would you prefer this one or this one?

And then you'll find at least the first thing you should test.

You'll get 90% of your stuff just on on surveys. Like if you guys don't sur like we survey all the [ __ ] time. If you like I use my like I think the biggest benefit of stories is that you can just immediately survey and I get serve like I get answers to questions. I was like, I'm I got three pieces of content I'm thinking about making and I just listed them and people were like, oh, I want that one. I was like, all right, cool, I'll make that one. Like it was just like I'm not going to well, do you think they want show up rate stuff or do you think they want uh stuff on on churn? I'm like, "Ah, what if they want high ticket sales?" But but churns and like I you just get stuck in this like just ask them, "Do you want this one or this one?" And they're like, "Oh, that like right." Yeah. Sometimes I even when it I'm deciding should the button go here or there? I put a I do a screenshot and I say A B and I send it to five power users and I'm like A or B. And so like I use them to make up my mind a lot of the time. If you get into the habit of talking to your customers a lot, it makes life so much easier because otherwise you'll just kill yourself with these choices.

And take forever on them.

Yeah. No, I definitely do.

And never know.

Yeah. And still not cuz like you don't have more data at the beginning of your self talk than you do at the end.

You just give yourself more reasons.

I would say having the two incentives for a challenge work really well with school games. So it's like power users top 10 get a certain prize or top one or whatever and then anybody that gets a certain threshold wins a smaller prize to get those people to activate.

Okay. So maybe like a level like hey if you get to this level you get this and if you get 30 days if you're the top winner of the 30 days you get that.

Yeah. So with every affiliate compensation system I've ever made, we have you think about it from avatars. There's the people who are the winners who they're trying to win and then you also want to activate the long tail people who just to get them to do something, right? And so like with the book launch, it was like, okay, anybody who brings 10 people gets three extra chapters in the book and if you bring in the top 10, I'll spend an hour with you on the phone one-on-one to your community. And so there's some no man's land here, but like you get a ton of people to send 10 people or whatever the the action item is, right? And then for the winners, they have their own kind of separate competition. So it's like lowest period of entry. And I like that because if you just have this, then all the beginners are like, there's no way I'm going to get anything from that. And if you just have this, it doesn't incentivize the killers.

If you're also looking for a place to start, you can just copy the school games. Because I just in my own community I was trying to figure out what's the best way for beginners to start monetizing. So I just ran a community I ran a challenge in my own community copied the school games exactly the prize whoever adds the most members to their school community spends a day with me in person. Anybody who gets 20 members inside of the community gets a unlocked course exactly the same as school games and it worked so well.

How did you track it?

I made at the end of the month them take a screenshot of their dashboard of metrics to show how many members they added in a month. So there's no like public leaderboard. It was just at the end of the month submit.

You're you said something that was like fire earlier is like checklist versus SOP. It it almost sounds like cuz I'm I hate being confined. I'm like I don't like to be with in like classrooms. Hate them. Um but the thing that you said that was like it almost sounds like the SOP is the checklist and the fact that the person can like almost creatively solve the problem themselves versus confining them to like an employee position. They get a little more freedom there. Is that.

I just don't think people read SOPs.

I don't. That's why I'm asking.

No one does.

Yeah. So you just do check.

You spend three days writing this really beautiful SOP. They say thanks and then they just keep living their lives.

Yeah.

Right. And so I want like these are the activities you need to do. And it doesn't like we have a checklist for content. It doesn't mean I'm feel like I'm constrained. It's just these things must occur.

Right? Versus like two pages of like if this this and that.

It depends on the role, right? Okay.

Honestly.

Okay. I mean, the checklists aren't going to be that long, right?

Exactly.

Customer asks for a refund.

Ask them reason why. Second, you ask, "Are they sure?" Send them a cancellation video. Like, and then as soon as you reach the last one, it says, "Fine, give them a cancellation." And you just follow it. They tape them on the wall. That way, they can just always remember it.

I'm good with it. I mean, Charlie Mer talks about this at length. He says like, "No good pilot flies a plane without a checklist." Even though they've done it a hundred times, you still use a checklist because there's just a lot of things you can forget. When you have a hundred things you have to remember, it's just you're going to forget one.

I'm just going to make checklists from now on because.

It's just way easier. If you if you make a checklist correctly, it's solely based on the activities that they have to do. So you don't need explanation. You don't need reasons. You don't need because it's just do this. And they're just conditional statements. If this then that. If this then that. If this then that. And then the like the headline of the checklist is the condition.

Right? If someone reaches out about this checklist, it's just a lot easier. And then also when you have them checklisted, when you have a new employee, you're like, they're like, "What do I do when?" And you're like, "Here are the seven checklists for your position. When this happens, this is what you do. When this happens, this is what you do." And if you don't know how to do that, that's what I'm here to train you on. All right. Now, we can eat.

Okay. So, I wanted one thing I wanted to touch on earlier that um you guys asked me, so I wanted to hit on this real quick and then we can go into the the main stuff was uh where is it? Woman in the red dress. Where's my W? Here it is. Woman in the red dress. Um, so I they were asking like when when do you jump to a new opportunity versus sticking, which is a classic entrepreneur question of pushing and pivoting. And so the the TLDDR number one is that you're never going to know the right answer because you can't play out two realities. So just as like an anxiety thing, just like point one. Point two is I think about like hypothetical extremes on behavior to think like, okay, which one's more directionally correct. And so on one hypothetical extreme imagine you had an entrepreneur who started a new business every six months, right? Just kept switching the thing that they were doing. You could probably guess that that if that behavior stuck for 20 more years, they'd still probably be in about the same position they are now. Right? Now, on the equal opposite extreme, someone takes a bad or mediocre business, but it does it for 50 straight years and never stops. Who's more successful? And so, I think we have this um obsession around optimization of trying to get the most before we put in. And I'm a big advocate of that. Don't get me wrong, but the thing is is that after a certain point, the compounding of time is so great that there's nothing like after I was just telling them I was like, if you can just stick to one thing for five years, you'll you'll get it. And there's no other way that I can describe it besides like having now stuck with something for five years and now obviously more than that, you're like, "Oh, because when you're at year seven, the growth of a year seven company to year eight is so much more than even the best opportunity at year one or two from zero. If you just take that increment, if you have a $100 million business and you're like, "Okay, I can for sure know that we can get to 135 this year." Going from 0 to 35 million in a year, very unlikely in any new business, right? And so automatically whatever the new opportunity is, it's like you already have to say like it's I would it has to progress at such a faster rate that by year eight of my original business it would pass it or year nine of my of my current business continuing to grow. It'd have to pass there. So it's not passing where you're at now. It's like, okay, now I have three more years to get it to just here, but I would have three more years in this main thing that I'm already doing. And so I don't know, I'm staring at you guys but like uh.

Yeah, you know Canva, that company?

Yeah. They're 10. They just hit 10 years old. In their 10th year, they grew by more than they had made in total in their first nine.

Yeah. So.

It's got to be 50 bill plus. I think.

It's it's I don't know, but more than 20. And I think it's 50.

Yeah.

And I bring this up because the thing is is like we have all these little details. you're like, "Oh, I should put that cancellation video in. Oh, I should like start running ads better, or I should whatever, right?" And the thing is is like that list just never ends. But if you keep applying it to one business, the business just keeps getting better and better and better as long as you get feedback and you keep improving the business model. Like the only thing that's really fundamentally going to change is going to be advertising because media changes really quickly, but the actual like business model oftentimes doesn't change a huge amount. And so we usually mess around as entrepreneurs with the business model a lot and not very much on the advertising. And so I will give you a piece of advice which is like if you have this entrepreneurial add all of it into the creative on the front end and leave your business alone. Like take it all out there. Just just make more stuff, make more giveaways, make more content, make more ads, and then just let people run the business. And so we realized even with our portfolio that like portfolio companies do best when they meet with me like once a year because I just break too much stuff. And so and so like if we made like once a year is like okay then I have to get really focused. I'm like all right, so if we only did one thing this year, that what would get us the furthest to our goal? And I'm like, just do this one thing. I don't really care about anything else. And so sometimes that one thing has legs for sure, but it's just thinking like the the big domino, which is a big Tim Ferris thing, but I love it as a concept, which is like what one big domino is big enough that if I push that over, the rest of my dominoes fall apart. And I think there's a lot of wisdom in just taking a little bit more time to think 12 months from now, if I just became Oh, Zay's gone. But for him, there you go, Zane. Um, when you watch the recording, um, if he just builds a really big personal brand, if he just did that for the year, everything all his other problems will probably go away. If we just fixed if we just fixed churn, if that's all we did, then probably by the end of the year, like we could we could advertise better, we could attract more people, our business would still be bigger, like all of these other things. So, it's like just trying to get really really narrow on like what that one thing is um is really helpful. And the obvious one is like, well, don't start from zero again. So, I just wanted to bring that up because the smaller the business is, the more often that question gets asked. The bigger the business is like at a certain point most guys in the entrepreneurship well, they'll realize that they're like, oh, this is my game. Like I'm just I've been doing bookkeeping for however many years and like I understand it like I know the known and I know the unknowns or like I have I know what the bad parts are but I know how to mitigate those risks and that's how you can have a chicken shop Panda Express and a 2600 location and 45 years later, literally the worst opportunity vehicle you can imagine.

Brick and mortar chicken. Right. Right. So the guy's worth 15 billion just selling chicken, you know? And so like that's why I have this really big push against people like I think this thing's capped. I'm like, is it? You know what I mean? Like if you stick at it for a very long time and just get a little bit better every year, you get really hard to compete with. Like very hard to compete with. Like right now, um not Leila and I are running Gym Launch and still crushing everyone in that space. And I'm not involved. And so like I say that to say that like there's also hasn't been anyone who's been in that space for as long as us at this point because people cycle in and out because they see a new opportunity. All the guys that were the big kingpins in the space when I got in there, they're all gone. And so a lot of entrepreneurship is a game of endurance. It's outlasting more than beating a lot of times. So just wanted to make that point before we get into this stuff.

Okay. So, we talked about um we we obviously hit uh this conversion thing, low ticket to high ticket. Ted, you gave a bunch of really good tactics on that. Um any other questions on low ticket to high ticket conversion?

Okay, I'm going to check that one off. Um we can talk about So, we've got some some team stuff. We've got content stuff, personal brand, scale content, um, organic brand growth. There's three there.

What do you guys want to do next?

Yeah. What do you guys feel like talking about?

He's feeling zesty.

Yeah. Setters.

Setters.

No. I just want to be like, hire him. It's up to you guys. It's yours. Y'all's day.

How about how you teach people?

How do we teach stuff?

Well, you know what I'll do is well, we can talk about that, but we can talk about within the context of team because it'll work the same way.

Um.

Yeah. Managing a company with multiple employees, their tasks, their roles. Yeah.

How you delegate. So let me show you something that I haven't done in any other school days, but I I'll walk you through it. So I just call this like my management diamond. So fundamentally, if you ask someone to do something, you want them to do it. If they're not doing it, then comes into the problem solving, right? Which is what, how, when? Okay. So, if someone doesn't do what you want them to do, the first and obvious reason is they didn't know what you wanted them to do. And so, you fix this one through communication. This is, by the way, a really good framework for having hard conversations when someone's not doing a good job. And so you say, "Hey, Carly, I wanted you to do this and you haven't done it. So I just want to figure out what the reason was so we can solve it or make it less likely to happen in the future." So I figure the first was that you didn't know that I wanted you to do that. Did you know that I wanted you to do that? If they say, "No, I didn't know." Then you're like, "Great. Now you know, right?" Now, if they're like, "I did know that you wanted me to do that." Then you're like, "Oh, did you not know how to do it?" which you solve with training, which will dovetail into the whole teaching thing in a second. But okay, yes, I did know that you wanted me to do it and I know how to do it, but I didn't know you wanted it by now or by tomorrow. And so I didn't have a deadline here. So we assign deadlines when we tell people to do things and that's just again to hold them responsible. Now if someone knows what you want them to do, they know how to do it and there's a deadline associated and they still don't do it, then the question is do they need some sort of incentive? Were they not motivated to do it? Or was something blocking them? I could have the best chef in the world who's the most motivated, know that I want to make an omelette, knows how to do it, knows I want it in the next five minutes. He's like, "Bro, I don't have eggs." Doesn't matter how much I do. Like, sometimes people don't have like we actually had this issue with my editing team was I was like, "Why don't you all [ __ ] edit in the building?" And they're like, "The upload speed, they're like, "My upload speed at home is faster than here." And so it actually just takes me more time. And so we paid Google Fiber to drill a hole into the [ __ ] wall and here we are. And now they get up. It's faster here now, right? But it's fundamentally like if there are blockers, then it's like, okay, well, can I just solve whatever that blocker is? Can I remove that impediment? And so walking through this has helped me have a lot of hard conversations with people and not make them hard. It's like there's five reasons that you didn't do it. You didn't know what it was, how to do it, when I wanted it. You are an incentivizer. Someone's blocking you. Any of these sound familiar? And if there's more than one, then you got to fix more than one. And often times if you delegate, if you basically you hand something off to somebody and it gets worse after you hand it off, it's because you didn't delegate it, you abdicated it. You just said, "Here you go. Good luck." And so that's a very easy litmus test. If you hand it off and it gets better or it's neutral, then you actually delegated it. And so what happens is most entrepreneurs just find a human being that has a pulse. Say they have a meeting like this and just say a lot of things at them. Expect the person to have 100% retention and know exactly what to do when they want to do it, how they want it done with no blockages the person's not aware of and then be done. Be like, "Oh yeah, I already I told him once." It's like, yeah, once. Not in a written format, in no structured form. Like and then you're just yelling at them on a Zoom call and then two weeks later you're surprised that they're not doing as well as you after having done it for [ __ ] years. You know what I mean? So we we think through this is how I think through um trying to figure out um employee issues. So this one's fairly straightforward in my opinion. This one's fairly straightforward. The two hard ones are these guys.

So, from a training perspective, I'll give you I'll give you an example I had to do recently with um a teammate or employee here. Um I'll just give a So, let's say there's somebody on your team who's a dick, right? You're like, "Hey, Caroline, you're being a dick." Um the thing is is that stopping a dick is actually a pretty terrible directive. And the reason is because they don't know what they're doing because they're dicks. They're like, "You just want me to not be me?" and you're like, "Kind of." And so what we have to do is so I call it bundling and unbundling terms and this is fundamentally why I think my content does better than most people's is that like you've heard me define terms. It's like, okay, patience is figuring out to do in the meantime. So I told someone, "Be patient." It doesn't mean anything. If I say, "Be charismatic," how do I be charismatic? It's like, okay, I need you to have more uh vocal ranges when you're talking. I need you to pause for emphasis. This. I need you to say people's names. I need you to look them in the eyes. I need you to nod when they're talking. Like these are a series of activities that when someone does all of them, we bundle them together and say this person's charismatic. And so rather than saying, "Be charismatic," and say, "I need you to do these six things or stop doing these six things that you are doing." And by doing that, then people will stop describing you as a dick. And so we had um a teammate who was really high potential, like really smart, hardworking, did all that stuff. But something started happening and they started acting a little bit dickish and we had four leaders in my company have like sit down talks, which normally wouldn't do, but the person was really good at their job. I don't really want to lose the productivity. And so I was the last stop. I was like, "It's me or you're out. So we got to figure something out here." And he'd already been given a lot of instruction, a lot of, "Don't be a dick, be nicer," things like that, but that doesn't help anyone change their behavior. And so fundamentally, giving someone a frame of what do I want to have happen as a result of this conversation helps filter what you're actually talking to them about. And so like me insulting them or making them feel bad doesn't actually do anything for increasing the likelihood that they behave in a certain way. Most of the time it's just clarity. Just like when you hop on the call and you tell people to do this stuff immediately, they will not like you. And if they don't like you, they'll complain more, which makes it more like you get fired. You don't want to get fired. Great. So all you have to do is not do that at the beginning of the calls. People will stop describing you that way. He's like, "This is so eye opening. I didn't even know." And it was like four or five other items that I asked for specific examples so that I could say like, "Stop doing these things and people will stop calling you a dick." And within a month, people were people were like, "Dude, he's completely turned around." It's like he just actually had specific instructions. And so most of us aren't willing to do the hard work of saying like, "What is this person doing or what does this person need to do?" Which is why I'm a big fan of checklists because it's like this is what you have to do when you onboard someone. Like check your hair. Make sure that there's not a bed in the background. Like I'm like, yeah, you're onboarding a customer and it's got like, you know, a pink bunny poster behind you and it's like that's probably not the first impression I'm really looking for, right? So, it's like these are the checklists that you go through. It's like first you greet them by name. Second, you look at the notes and you tell them about the goal and then when you took a recording of the onboarding call, it's like, why does Sarah suck and Caroline's great? You just say, well, Sarah, here's the checklist. You did three. There's 11 items. Sarah consistently or Caroline does, you know, nine out of 11 and hers consistently get higher scores. Now, if she if Sarah follows the checklist and she does all 11 and her scores are way below the other girls, then it means the checklist is wrong, which means that's on you, not on her. And so, it means that you're incomplete in terms of what you're trying to train them on. And so, sometimes it's useful to know that. So, if both people do the checklist and they objectively meet the things, then there's other things that you don't know about. And so fundamentally, soft skills and hard skills are all just skills. It's just that soft skills people just have a harder time teaching because it's bundled language. And I think that's why so many people struggle teaching them. So in training the team to loop back to your question, I want to figure out what the problem is with the person so I can try and loop to these things. If it's a training issue, I try and break it down as much as I humanly can. If it's a motivation issue, um, it really comes down to reinforcing stimuli. So either people do things that uh because they get stuff that they like or they avoid things they hate. Getting fired is usually a pretty aversive stimulus. So a lot of people will do things to just not get fired. So it's fairly strong. Um, but the best performers do it do things because they just like doing them. Like the best employees, the best teammates, they just work all the time because the actual conditions of work are more reinforcing than any boss can be. Right? Which is why a lot of people like on my team for example with like a lot of editors and whatnot, they just edit in their free time. They picked up editing because editing itself is a reinforcing thing. No one cold calls in their free time. Oh yeah, I just picked up cold calling on the side. Yeah, I just cold call like on my days off just because I just like it. Like no one says that. Uh, but the thing is is that sales and editing have very fast feedback loops and so you can immediately get off the call and get a reward. You immediately get you see an edit and or you catch a moment and there's this f a lot of feedback loops that are really tight and good. Other roles have slower and longer feedback cycles and so as a manager you have to basically artificially input more feedback loops into longer project timelines or jobs that require more complex tasks um that motivate people through reinforcement. And so a lot of people I think in culture say, oh, someone did something crazy. And so what we do is we say, what happened that caused them to do it, but we actually invert how behavior works, which is people do things because of what happens after they do them, not because what happened before. And so that's like what happens after you do stuff is the latency of training and that's how you train people. And so anyways, I I geek out on human behavior stuff a lot, but um, motivation fundamentally comes from deprivation, which is what are you most deprived of? So if somebody's very deprived of praise, which many people are, giving praise motivates them. If someone gets praised all the time, praise might not motivate them. Just depends on the person. And so this is figuring out what are the reinforcing stimuli from someone's past. That's getting to know your employees better so you can do the things that motivate them. Money, by the way, has been conditioned as a universal uh reinforcer. We've learned at an early age that this thing equals whatever we want. So, it's just a generalized reinforcer. But there are more specific reinforcers that you can give to individual people. So, yeah, that's that. And then block, you just unblock the thing if you can afford it, whatever the problem is. So, um, that's my little manifesto on management if that helped out.

Okay, cool. Oh, great.

Where do you um where do you find like more information to better understand these concepts because we're in a very in like human capital intensive industry?

Management is the the big piece that's missing for like every company.

And that's why so many people fail. Where would I find like this in more depth and in more volume so that I could understand these concepts better?

So most of these concepts were derived from the ground up from just like rat studies with Dr. Cashy who Sam Sam knows, my good buddy.

Okay. And so, um, I think most people just do a lot of things and just like see what happens. Like it's very haphazard. I think almost no one knows how to train.

Yeah. Period.

I feel I feel like understanding human psychology like that was always my foundation.

Even ignore psychology.

Really?

I completely ignore it.

I I would say that you talk a lot about it. Like.

Probably never heard me say the word psychology.

Not the word psychology, but what you're maybe I'm blanking it.

Right? So, so to get now I don't want to get too far into that cuz I will go there. But um.

So this is this is like for everyone like if you want to basically have your [ __ ] ometer always turned on. It's separating out when people give reasons because statements or just blank statements of like the other day someone's like, "There's only three ways that you can, you know, make a customer worth more." And then they and then they continue the sentence. I was like, "That's just false." They just started the statement that way. A lot of people make statements that are just false. They have no idea what they're saying. And so we walk through a framework when we're trying to basically detect [ __ ] which is logic, evidence, utility. Which is what does this mean? How do you know? And so what? So I'll give you an example. So, I had um I had someone the other day say, "I'm stressed because I'm lonely." And I was like, "Okay." I was like, "What does lonely mean to you?" It's a bucketed term, right? It's a bundle term. He was like, "Well, I was like that on Friday night, you have no one to text or that people don't respond back to you or like what what is the what what does that mean to you?" Because it's there's a thing there's an activity that occurred and then they describe it they chunk it up as loneliness. But when you get two steps below that of to like what occurred, what was the action that got stunted or something that you wanted that you didn't get, then you can get a lot more specific. We're like, okay, so then I say, "All right, so that was the lonely occurrence. Now have you been stressed before when that wasn't happening?" Yes. "Okay, so then how do you know that that thing has anything to do with your stress?" They're completely completely decoupled, right? It's like, "All right, and who cares? You're stressed. Have you been stressed when things are going well?" Yes. "Have you been stressed when things are not going well?" Yes. So, in general, you're stressed when you're alive. Noted. What's your point? Right? And so, we like breaking this down allows you to just be less confused about what other people say. And so, the reason I'm going here is because most people are full of [ __ ]. Not purposefully, not maliciously. They just don't know any better. And so they just like parrot out other things. They talk about pop psychology, whatever. And I, for the most part, have just erased feelings, intentions, beliefs, all of these words from my vocabulary in terms of what influences behavior. Because I just only focus on what can we observe? Because if I were to say, "This guy's really motivated." I'd say, "How do you know? What does motivation mean to you?" I had a lady say, "Can you motivate me?" I was like, "Define motivation." And she just like stood there and melted. And I was like, "Right. So, you want me to answer a question that you can't define the word for. So, what's the likelihood that you get what you want? Really low. And so, but the thing is is we ask questions about stuff all the time we can't define. Which means maybe we need to ask better questions or at least know what the [ __ ] we're talking about. And so, anyways, I bring this up because if you going back to the motivation thing, if I say this person's really motivated, you'd say, "How do you know?" It's like, "Well, they do all this stuff." It's like, "Great. And forget about the concept or label."

of motivation and just say this person does these things. Great. And so I don't care if you feel motivated or not. If you do these activities, people will describe you that way.

And if you do these activities, when I had the conversation with the the dick in particular, right, I said, I want to be clear. I don't care if you're a dick. I don't care if you hate everyone. As long as you behave this way, doesn't matter to me. And so a lot of people spend all this time trying to be like, there's these seven stages of awareness. Like how do you know? How do you know that? What's your evidence for that?

And so what? Like what are the activities someone has to do? Okay, they have to see your ad. Great. Then they have to interact with it in some way. They have to take an action. So if you go through the leads book, I walk through the lead stages in the book and it's only based on the observable. They took a step, then they give you their information. They give you means to contact them. Then after you have means to contact like you, these are the things that like no one could like fight me. Like these are the things that have to occur. And so if you if you reason up from what can I observe with my eyes, it makes life a lot easier.

Even when you're talking to like a spouse, you're like, "Okay, I'm really upset." Like, "Okay, what does that mean right now? How do you know you're upset? And so what? What do you want me to do about it?" And so then like when you say this, what do you want me to do? When you say like if someone says like you should know, it's like I'll play that game. I'm hungry either means you would like me to go get you food, you would like us to go get food together, it could mean you want space, it could mean you're in a bad mood. I was like, but I won't take one cue for six behaviors. Pick. And then it makes things a lot easier. And so you can start training realistically like anyone in your company to behave a certain way by just saying when you say this, what do you want to have happen?

And also when you're having the conversation with staff or employees or whatever, like sometimes we in in the moment like someone disrespects you, you want to like immediately insult them or whatever, right? But you're like, "Okay, well, what do I want to have happen?" Well, if I insult them, they're going to be more resistant to me in the future, but I need to have more influence over them, not less. So me counter punishing to prevent their their thing in the future, it's probably going to be counterproductive. And so what can I say that increases the likelihood that what I want to have happen happens. And so it's like taking a second step forward and be back to think what's the second order of magnitude effect on their behavior rather than what I feel like doing in the moment.

Um and so when you're trying to look for okay how do I manage people better or how do I train people better most training is just not chunked down far enough. And so the people who are successful in whatever your education thing is come in more qualified than other people. Like have you ever had a student or a customer who you're like this guy's going to win no matter what, right? It's not you, it's because it's them because they have a history of skill set. They have a larger skill set um that they bring to the table. And so fundamentally, the people who are successful with your program are lacking the things you teach. The people who are not successful lack those things and other things. And so to have the most comprehensive training, you would have to start with here's how you write words, here's how you type, here's how the internet works. Of course, you're not going to do that because there's a base assumption, which is what qualifies someone to be a customer of a certain level of skills. It also works the same way with an employee. There's certain level of skills that are required to work for this role. And so if someone does have a deficiency, then the question is what's the return on effort? I think I could teach someone who has Down syndrome and be a neurosurgeon. Well, I couldn't, but somebody could, right? It just might take 30 years. It's probably not worth it because for the same resources we get 2,000 other neurosurgeons who don't have Down syndrome, right? And so if you think about your customers that way, it's like in simply thinking about like take out character traits, take out beliefs, whatever. It's just I need them to behave this way. That's it. Just break it down to the activities and it makes a lot easier.

And so fundamentally it's like I wish I were more charismatic. I wish more patient. I wish I were more confident. If you just debundle those things and just say, "How do I break this down to the smallest level and how do I just do those activities?" It makes it a lot easier. And so, usually when training does not work, it's because we made an assumption of a skill set that they didn't have. And so, the more advanced someone is, the vaguer instruction can be. So, I can say, or Sam could say, "Hey man, do you think you just market school?" And I say, "Sure." That's it. That's the directive. It's not like, "Okay, do you think you can make this many pieces of content? Think you could run this many pieces of ad or like whatever it is, right?" And if I'm like, "Hey, think you can make an amazing product keep making?" He's like, "Sure." Like it's like, "Do you think you'd have an activation sequence or onboarding or we're going to do these things?" I like I trust that he'll do it because he has the skill set. You trust that I can do it because I have the skill set. And so fundamentally, the more skilled the person is, the vaguer the instruction can be. And so if you have low-level people, you don't have a lot of room for vagueness. So you have to be more specific with your instruction. As people get higher and higher up in your organization, you can be vaguer and vaguer with the instructions because they have more skills. And so experts fundamentally just have more ways to be rewarded within the same context. Like if you're really good at editing video, then you have many things that reward you because you have more skills. If you're really bad at it, there's very few things that reward you. And so that's what mastery development is.

>> Amazing.

>> So good. So if my girl tells me she

>> Maybe we'll make a video out of that. Michael,

>> that was fire. Like

>> if my girl says she's upset to say

>> that doesn't work for for punts.

>> I tried I tried to do something like that with my wife and after a few years I learned a much more simple algorithm

>> at the school.

>> I'll tell you what the algorithm was for my wife. It was if sad hug.

>> Yeah.

>> If sad hug.

>> Don't try to solve.

>> Right. And that would be her behavior cue. It's just like when you

>> She wasn't looking for a solution. I tried to problem solve it. She just wanted a hug.

>> But you get the idea. So fundamentally, if you say, "I'm tired." And it means, "Can you hug me?" That's what the translation of what behavior do you want me to have? It's like when I'm sad, hug me. It's like that's a clear that's the cue. Okay, great. Then that's what I'll do.

>> It's just expert level communication because we all have our own perception filters on what words mean and you're like, "What does that mean to you? I don't even know what

>> Yes. It's getting on the same page.

>> Yeah.

>> He says, "I'm lonely." When it really means is that he just has no one to text on Friday night to drink beers with or to talk about business. Okay, that's solvable. You saying you're lonely can't do anything with that. And so, yeah, a lot of training at the very beginning, you'll notice with every book that I have, I end up defining like a ton of terms in the first couple chapters. It's because I have to get everybody on the same page before I can like before I can talk about offers, we got to know what they are. Before I can talk about leads, we got to know what they are. And so we spend actually a huge amount of time on making sure that the definition of terms are accurate and that we try and do them from the perspective of what h like what do what does someone do? You let people know about your stuff. That's advertising. That's what it is. Like show me something that's not letting people know about their stuff and it's not advertising. And there's many forms of letting people know about their stuff just like there's many forms of advertising which is also why outbound I consider advertising.

>> Did you know that Elon Musk banned the use of acronyms at SpaceX and Tesla?

>> That makes sense to me.

>> You're not allowed to use them.

>> Yeah.

>> Because people start using them too much and they don't want to admit that they don't know what that means cuz it might make them look like

>> Yeah.

>> They don't they're amateur or something. So it just breaks down communication. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I love that.

>> We have that in medicine. Like there's a lot of code names for things and it drives me insane.

>> Every every industry has its own language and jargon and it makes it it's literally a barrier to entry for newer people. Sucks. Yeah. Does that help with the trading thing?

>> Dude, I'm like I'm leaving. That's all I needed.

>> Thanks. No, that was good though. Thank you.

>> Cool. Yeah. Shoot. really your quote and I can't remember it like the full quote but it's been really helpful with like if I have someone below me saying I'm really anxious you tie the emotion to I need something so the only one I remember is I'm anxious but that just mean you need more information

>> what was what were the other ones can I remember those ones

>> so anxiety so yeah anxiety comes from uh many directions and a lack of priorities sadness comes from none a lack of perceived options That's why it feels like hopelessness. You don't know what to do. Whereas anxiety, there's a zillion things and you can't pick.

>> Okay? Because I feel like that's been really helpful or I know it's been really helpful if we have some below me.

>> I'll publish a book that has all the definitions of terms from an operational perspective.

>> It'll come later, but I have I I've already have it. I have I have all of the definitions on one on one doc.

>> They're just slowly working through.

>> Can you share? Yeah, I was gonna say if you drop the air drop there,

>> drop it.

>> Whatever it is,

>> no.

>> What does no mean to you?

>> You will not get what you want.

>> So what?

>> No. Exactly. That's fundamentally what it is. Logic, evidence, utility. It just like whenever you get in like these moments you're like, "What the [ __ ] are they?" Oh, can you define that for me? like what do you mean by the thing is is that most people can't define and then in terms of trying to figure out what the definition they're using is just think can I do it if they if you can't do it someone says oh the definition of like a lot of times people basically swap synonyms and so they'll say oh charismatic it's like being confident it's like also not useful what else you got right so they just give you another word that has a bundle of terms underneath of it

>> if they can't define it do you help them define it or you just say well then I can't help you

>> well yeah you try and define it with them together so when you say this, what you really mean is this. So when you say you're sad, what you really mean is you want me to hug you. Got it. So this is like, hey, just hug you. Great.

>> Happens a lot in coaching, too. They're like, okay, I really want you to help me take my business to the next level. I go, what does that mean to you?

>> Sure. Exactly.

>> How? Cuz I don't even know what that means. Could that mean anything?

>> Yeah, 100%. For some people, it could be I just want to work one day a week. That could be the next level.

>> Some people it's an extra 10k a month. Some people it'll never end. or it's a million dollars a month or it just means that uh customers are leaving nice reviews or often it's that their follower count goes up and has nothing to do with their business but they just want status. So it's like it's just drawn up but like if you do unpack it you'll be way more effective in terms of teaching because then you can speak in terms that like you can speak in terms

>> let's see if we can actually get you there.

>> Yeah. And so I mean we're very good at training sales and presenting as a company. I feel really confident with that. And so when we do training and this is for everybody um so basically if you train a dog how to sit if if you u so this is uh you know trainability or you know train and this is time or I'll just call this success. All right.

>> Is that if you give it if a dog sits and you immediately give it a treat, it takes one or two repetitions for them to get the trick. If you tell the dog to sit and then wait 5 seconds and then give it a treat, it takes like 10 times. If you wait 30 seconds, it takes like a hundred times for them to get it. After a minute, they're unteachable. And so basically when it comes to behavior, the latency of reward matters more than the intensity. The reason that Facebook and Instagram are addicting is because of the immediacy of the reward. The little ding, the little light. And so when we're thinking about training, also when you're at this point, it's not that the dog's untrainable. You're just training something else because you're rewarding them for something. They just don't know that has anything to do with think the fact that they were sitting down. And so when we're thinking about like that's what I think like annual bonuses. So like it changes no one's behavior. Like there's a certain amount of money that someone needs to make in order to enter a role or to apply to a job or decide to get accepted or whatever. But past that point, everything that they do, how they behave inside is going to be conditioned based on the culture of the company. What does culture mean? It's the rules that govern uh an organization behavior. So what rewards what things do you do to get rewards here and what things do you do that get punished? That's all a culture is. And that's across countries. If you sleep with two people in this in this, you know, country, it's fine. If you do it somewhere else, you get killed. Okay, those are different cultures. If this, then that. They're just rules that govern behavior. And so when we're coming up with reward systems for teammates who are trying to train, we want the fastest feedback loop possible. And so if my sales guys, this is for you, if my sales guys are on the phone, the reason that we want to be there with them in person ideally is that we basically nod our head. We have two reinforcing stimuli in real time as they're doing a good job. Then we're like, "Redo it one more time. Do it again." And we just keep doing that until they say it exactly the way we want to say it. And then once they do it once, we're like, "Great. Do it again. Great. Do it again." And we take the what would be a 30-minute script because if you listen to a sales call and then give someone feedback at the end, it's done. The call is over. They have to try and remember that the next time, like, it's not going to happen. If you want to fix someone's intro to a call, have them say the first 30 seconds, immediately give feedback, have them do it again the way you want it with tweak, have them do it again. And then you daisy chain each of the behaviors together until you have someone who perfectly follows the script. And then if they perfectly follow the script as a team, you're closing like crazy. And if they're not, then the script's wrong. And that's on you. But I train adherence to the script first and then we can tweak the script because if I have a team of guys who will all do the exact same thing, then the script matters. If no one follows the script, why have one? And that's why I say the vast majority of people who teach sales have no [ __ ] clue what they're doing. They basically just have a churn and burn, which is very common in the insurance industry, where they just say, "Grab a hundred guys, see who survives." That's not sales training. That's just survival. That's picking, not training. And so I would like and and also the more you guys learn how to do like specifically like sales training, marketing training, any kind of training, the higher the margins you have in the business. Let me explain. If I can take someone off the street and have exceptional training and get them to be more proficient at in my sales process than anybody else, then I get to get someone attract someone at this level of pay, insert my training, turn a raw material into a far more valuable thing, but I still pay the original price. people who have to pay all these mercenary closers who are these high ticket guys who just jump from offer to offer to offer. That's because the the companies they're jumping into have no process whatsoever. And so that guy has to fill a hundred holes. So he has to have many skills in order to close. Whereas if you know how to build a sales process, you know how to build marketing and piece all the stuff together, then you can mechanize each piece of it so that you just need to do this thing and then you can get them really, really, really good because you've broken it down. And then why do I need to pay someone an exorbitant amount of money to do this when I can get someone because I have such good training off the street to be able to do it in two weeks. This isn't a real skill for me. And then that gives you a huge advantage in terms of recruiting talent and then also in terms of the margin because you don't have to pay up here in order to get people. Does that make sense?

>> That applies to creative roles as well.

>> 100%. Skills are skills. There's just there's just this around it. I'm a creative. It's like but you still do things with your hands and you make decisions. All right, cool. No, but like for real that there's tons of mythology around that stuff. If you just look at skills as things that you can learn, it's like I'm not this way, which means that you don't behave the way you want to do, which means it's learnable. It's a skill. And so someone's like, he's really impatient. Patience is a skill. You can teach it. Creativity is a skill. You learn it at some point. You just might have learned it really young. You don't remember learning it. You know what I mean? You can also become more creative. You can become funnier. Like, they're all skills. And like just fundamentally seeing the world that way has helped me a lot. We can talk about school [ __ ] All right. So, um, yeah. So, hopefully that helps. So, if your training isn't working, it's usually because the reward's too late. And so, what we do as entrepreneurs, we usually try and make the intensity of the reward higher. We try and give a bigger cookie to the dog when really just need to give a tinier cookie at the right time. Go for it.

>> Just really good. Well, we're just adding something to um what we're doing and it's just helping me understand like hey if so um as traders there's prop firms and um I was just thinking we successfully pass a prop firm often times it will take you know a month to see any money back from that and I was just thinking man if we can get money in their hands like that from our prop firm it's going just to reinforce what they're doing and so I was just thinking we're going to be able to

>> under the assumption that seeing the profit that they're going to make in real time on their screen is not reinforcing enough,

>> right? No, they got to get it.

>> They got to physically have it, right?

>> Not always. Facebook reinforces you all the time. They don't give you any money.

>> They just give you a ding. They give you a like.

>> But I think that there's a lot of prop firms that you see the reward like you can see it on the screen. to be different in that in the industry to actually because

>> don't get me wrong I think intensity and low latency would be better than just low latency. The question is just so that this I mean I can talk about this a lot but but fundamentally the idea is okay what behaviors are we not getting out of what percentage of the population and then the delta between okay we add this new thing for this might cost us a ton of money in order to do this how much more do we get and does it change anything about what these people already do this has also helped me just like negotiating deals is that like because they're like I want you more incentivized this. And I'm like, what do you want me to do? I was like, and this is the cookie that you believe will change my behavior. Why? I was like, because for me, my reputation matters a lot more than whatever your cookie is. And so, if I say that I'm going to do it, then I will do it because my reinforcing stimulus is my reputation. And so, if they believe me, then that's that, right? And so, like, just getting clear on the the the pieces of what you actually want someone to do or what they want you to do makes life just a lot easier. And so, but all of these are still within the context of return on effort or return on capital within a business. Like training costs time and money. How much extra value are we getting out of this employee based on that time and money? Because there are like I absolutely could train someone to be a closer for me. I still don't train everyone because it's not worth it because I could just train five people for the price of one. So, we still have screening. we still have requisites for what it takes to have because I don't want to teach somebody how to use a computer. I want to teach somebody how to use a phone. Like there are things that someone already has to have coming into it. And so I think the more specific you can get with what those requirements are, real requirements, it makes it really helpful for recruiting roles. And that's also how sometimes people like, "Oh, I found out that like bartenders are really good sales people." I had a friend of mine who just like only recruited bartenders for salespeople. And it might just been because for his role, there might have just been a huge amount of domain transfer of those skills and so he only had to teach one extra thing. Does that make sense? All right, I'll stop talking about human behavior and stuff. All right, the diamond. Okay. As for the centralized to decentralized question, was that you asked that about teams? Building a team for every company. Is that yours? Yeah. So, building a team for every every um every client you bring on. Uh it's going to be more valuable for you if you centralize it. It's going to be more valuable for them if it's under them. So if you wanted to sell your thing in the future someday, it's more valuable to have it here. If you're building and they become independent, then that's you have less enterprise value because they're walking off now.

>> Okay. You guys want to talk about scaling content?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Does that work? Okay, cool. We don't have to. We can talk with someone else. Okay, neat. So I broke the rules. I'm usually supposed to be more interactive. So, so what are you guys doing that's working well with content? What's working for you guys right now?

>> For us, we just kind of like we uh we used to do like all the fancy editing with all kinds of crazy stuff and writing scripts out for videos and um spending way too much to produce a video and then we just kind of went back to the basics. It's literally just me in front of a webcam just talking about how to sell insurance better and they do way better than before.

>> Okay.

>> Just like focusing on the value instead of the production which I think a lot of people get confused about.

>> Yeah.

>> Long long videos.

>> Those are doing really well.

>> Hourong videos.

>> Yeah. Long YouTube videos, long Tik Toks.

>> It's a it's kind of a mix for us. I mean there's uh there's videos cuz we have a lot of highly I would say highly produced uh content as well and uh usually occasionally I'll throw in videos that are also green screen and I noticed that green screens hit really well on Tik Tok. They don't do as well on Instagram. However, the highly produced content does better on Instagram than it does on Tik Tok.

>> Sure.

>> I agree. It's also uh it's also a mix between uh like very actionable things which might just be in the the finance industry like the meta that works in the finance space of things things that like hey you can do this to open this credit card without a hard inquiry and if you have this credit scoreer it's like a 98% approval with a walkthrough of how to go through each step thing is that people can actually do and be like oh [ __ ] that worked well usually do better than here's generally how to do X.

>> So fundamentally what you have is education versus entertainment or bad education. So if we define education as same same condition, new behavior, right? So have you guys heard my definition in terms of this? All right. Phone rings, you pick it up, you say [ __ ] I say, "Okay, I'm going to train you on this new script." Phone rings again, they say the script, they learned, right? Same condition. Phone rings, new behavior. They say the script or don't say the script. If you want to make better content, this is when you're talking about like how do you how do you do stuff to teach it? I think I covered a lot of that, but it applies to content. And so you can make your content better by simply thinking, what do I want them to do as a result of this video? So like what are the steps that I want them to take? And so if you define it in that way, people be like, wow. So we're like, man, Alex's videos are so useful. Like I feel like he breaks down the most complex stuff, but it's I'm just chunking it down to all I do. I just I'm just tell this is the big secret. I just break it down to actions. That's it. And I just try it. If there is, and the thing is is like you will encounter words that you'll be like, "Fuck, I don't know what they're supposed to do with this." Or, "You know what? I don't know if there is a point to this video. If you can't define it, don't make it because they certainly won't be able to know if you don't know what they're supposed to do with it." Or they all do something different, in which case you didn't you all you did was change their behavior, but not to a specific outcome.

>> Yeah. I mean, we did uh we did try, which seems like you did that as well. We try to go very broad with our content and start producing what we, you know, what our favorite car is the way we like to do. Uh, fail.

>> Yeah. You mean you got the views, it just like

>> it was, it was dumb. People are like, I don't follow you guys because you care about Tesla EV charging.

>> Yeah.

>> Like your point of view is dumb. I follow it.

>> Sure.

>> Sweet.

>> It's not producing. is sick. And you're like, and you also hate making them, so whatever.

>> Yeah. Just just make the stuff that your ideal customer wants. And if that audience isn't big enough for you to have like fitness influencers will always have more followers than me, because there's more people than a fitness than in a business. Just more people have bodies than businesses. Like that's okay. They'll have a harder time monetizing than me. So like there's trade-offs, you know, with like and entertainers will always do better than educators because everyone can get entertained. Not everyone wants to learn anything, but anyone can be entertained, which is why Mr. Beast will always be or that style of content will always outperform the best educator in the world. We did a live event last was like a year and a half ago and we tried to be the Mr. Beast of Insurance. So, we flew out 12 insurance agents and um launched their ads for them and the first person who made a sale, we gave away $10,000.

>> I actually really like the idea. That's great.

>> I got 700 views.

>> Yeah, we like the idea, too.

>> Nobody cared. Like, it's been a year. I've like blasted that multiple times. No one's mentioned it to me once.

>> No one like they don't even watch the whole

>> How long is it?

>> Like 10 minutes. It was like really well edited. Just they didn't give a [ __ ] Yeah,

>> it was crazy as entertainment, but like for our industry just like

>> Well, I guess the question is it's unless you develop the characters, no one has a stake,

>> right? And if there's curiosity, it's like, well, someone's going to sell one and that's it. So, like I can guess what the video is and I have no investment or stake in the characters.

>> Probably good to blast out for like proving the product or so.

>> Yeah. You also just do screenshots, people making sales.

>> Exactly.

>> Yeah, that would have saved us a lot of money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, you're good.

>> I do a lot of our organic marketing um on Tik Tok mostly is where I've gained the most traction.

>> Really? Okay. mostly just I think being relatable to people who wanted what I have accomplished and we recently bought this coaching for a lot of money and they wanted me to create a whole office podcast sort of background and

>> um have scripts and lighting and the fancy camera and I was trying to figure out is this the right route to go to become more expert in the industry street or because of who we're trying to attract as our customer, do I maintain the relatability and

>> yeah,

>> you know what I mean? So I g back and forth.

>> No, this is fun using the stuff we just talked about. So I'll bet you that you don't have the skill set of speaking on script and sounding organic,

>> right? Yeah. Actually, that was one of like you needed practice,

>> right? So rather than so like fundamentally if you think I'll say it this differently. If you think about what you're going to say ahead of time you'll probably say better stuff with fewer wasted words than if you just try and do it on the cuff. If you prepare you'll do better. That I feel pretty confident with. So then it comes down to the presentation and that just is a skill.

>> Who's and who I'm trying to attract though. So if I'm am I going to be unrelatable and un if they see me as somebody who is better smarter than them is is in this space are they going to feel like they can't also accomplish what I've accomplished and then they

>> so this is fun. So this is fun. So this is how I think like we attach narratives to things that we have no idea about.

>> Right? And so if you just think in terms of likelihoods, it makes life a lot easier, which is like, will me having highly produced content decrease the likelihood that people click and watch my stuff.

>> Well, where they feel like they can't get to where I

>> So feel like they can't get to like this is how I I do this stuff. So means what?

>> Means they keep scrolling. Yeah. Because they see me out of reach.

>> Okay. So then what we do is I'd say, okay, if I have highly produced stuff, then is there anyone else who has highly produced stuff that serves the same market that gets buyers? If the answer is yes, then no.

>> It just means it's skill deficiency. Great.

>> What do you like

>> the most

>> to watch?

>> No. Like what do you like to create the most?

>> I like to be more creative. I less sitting staged. I like to be out.

>> I always find personally whatever I'm vibing with the most is how I feel most comfortable. I'm going to show up more natural and more authoritative than something

>> someone putting me and forcing me to do something I don't want to do. If you had the skill,

>> yeah,

>> you'd do even better.

>> Yeah.

>> No, no. Like,

>> true.

>> Right.

>> True.

>> So, if I don't prepare, like I it would be a hard stance to say if I don't prepare, I do better than if I do prepare. I'd be like, nah.

>> Right.

>> Right.

>> Right.

>> So, it's just that you lack another skill. And that's okay though. But when you frame it that way, rather than like scripting doesn't work for me, it's like, well, you've done it two times and you suck. I'm not saying I would definitely it would be interesting to see what happens with because I know right now my my content is very sort of random. It's like more creative and like in inspired action versus planned out action and but I have seen the impact that consistent edited studio type videos get. the views are massive and

>> Oh, really?

>> But I'm like, do those views also mean that they're also getting sales or do they just measurable high views? Yeah.

>> I mean, you just do that for a month and see what your sales look like and do the other ones.

>> That's what we did with wide content because fundamentally everybody's is like if you had you like I could I could make the argument if the whole world knew who I was then I would have more business owners who would buy my [ __ ] maybe,

>> right?

>> I don't know. So I went wider and was like, I'm going to talk about more stuff. And then I had fewer opt-ins, fewer book sales by absolute, not relative amount, absolute amounts. And so I was like, oh, that hypothesis is false. And that's why that hypothesis is a narrative. So I could I could explain like I that's probably a fairly compelling argument what I just said. If the whole world knows about who I am, I'll have more business owners who want to buy my stuff. That's a narrative. That's what it means. How do I know that? I don't

>> right

>> evidence. I have no evidence. And so we make a lot of these claims. We have a lot of this mythology and storytelling that we do that we just make up and it gets reinforced and so we keep doing it. But I think that fundamentally like that's why a lot of people get confused in general is like they do a little bit of something and they're like, "Well, it doesn't work as well as the thing I've always done." And I'd be like, "Well, that's not surprising because you've done a thousand of these and two of these." So, it's always worth just trying it for a consistent amount of time

>> and then seeing what your delta is. It's like, "Oh, I did these two. I bet you I could do this better on my third one." And then it gets to what I prefer, which is an allocation of resources question. Is it worth me learning this new skill? Well, all the people at the top of my industry script and produce. Okay, that seems highly correlative. Okay, and I'm not I'm not saying I'm just like I'm not saying I don't know your like the space, but if that were the case, then I'd be like, "Okay, well, this is just a skill deficiency, so I'll just go learn it. I mean, when I started this, I was like, all these guys have these big massive brands. I was I'm gonna [ __ ] make content. I was like, "All right, well, if they can do it, I can do it, and I'll just try.

>> I'll get better."

>> Yeah. I think the I think the beauty of content is like the perception because when when we first started like our some of our really good friends would produce these crazy highly produced videos but then some of our other friends the worst quality and the worst quality dude has equally the following as a dude that has high quality. And so that's why we have it mixed. And for me personally I get really nervous and anxious when I have high quality settings and it's like oh now's the time to film. Whereas if I have an idea, I can do a green screen I ideation hook and CTA the video like 45 seconds throw a couple captions on it and then just post it.

>> Both of them work.

>> Yeah.

>> On the topic of just content that's done well.

>> Um Sam talked a lot about this concept earlier when it comes to like people wanting the 10,000 over the 100,000. And what I've noticed, especially very recently, is that uh we all love talking about the pretty, but talking about the ugly tends to do better. At least as of recently, is what I've noticed. So, like just yesterday, I was on the phone with one of my buddies who owns a uh a video agency, videographer agency. And he posted three videos on Instagram two days ago. Um all three videos were about him trying to cold call clients to get clients for his video agency because he teaches people how to start their own, right? So, he's three videos of him doing cold calls to car dealerships. Calls him up. Hey, I'd love to do a free video for your car dealership. Blah blah blah. Right. The two videos where he cold called and actually got the client. They're like, "Yeah, we'd love to have you come in. Come in on Monday. Awesome." And the rest of the reel, they go, they make the video, the client, car dealership becomes a client, right? Those two videos got 3,000 views each. Um, zero new followers, anything considerable. the one of one out of the three of the videos he [ __ ] up the cold call bad. Like he botched the entire thing. He they answered. He's like, "Uh uh hey, uh I'm uh a [ __ ] Um listen, I have he [ __ ] up the whole call. It was hilarious, right?"

>> And uh there's there's not really much value. And at the end when he hangs up, he's like, "Yeah, I obviously [ __ ] up that call. They're not all going to be pretty. This happens sometimes, but who knows? Maybe this person might call me back. Whatever." Blah blah blah. out of that video, they got like, and that's still not much, but 13 uh 1337 new followers. And out of those 1337 new followers, six of them have become clients. So, that's just like a very recent example, but I've just noticed talking about the ugly is sometimes more relative to uh a bigger audience or a cold audience than talking about the pretty, especially because they can relate to it more because you have to think about like how that person thinks of themselves. If they don't think of themselves as the person who's making six figures a month, they don't associate with it. But if they think of themselves as the person who's going to [ __ ] up a cold call and they're associating with that, they're more attracted towards it and then they follow and then they want to become that guy. I'll tell you our um so I looked at all of our testimonials from Gym Launch over the last like six years. The highest converting uh the top five highest converting all five had a pain-based hook. We were two months from shutting our doors. We were barely making enough money to survive. two different hooks for two different testimonials. I'd pay my trainers, I'd pay my rent, and then I had zero dollars left over. Number three, so we had like a lot of times um paying super, you know, people either do things because they want to avoid bad stuff or towards good stuff. And avoid bad stuff's just as strong.

>> Talking about talking about like when we do like these are the worst credit cards.

>> Yeah.

>> 10 times better. These are the best credit cards.

>> Sure. The worst bangs viral. These are the best bangs. Nothing.

>> Um, another thing that

>> the worst communities we should make.

>> Where is Chase Sapphire on that list? I'm just curious.

>> On which list?

>> Is it on the good or the bad list? Chase

>> is on the best list.

>> Okay, good.

>> Because there's the reserve or the preferred.

>> I'll show you it afterwards. You can tell me.

>> What's in your wallet? That's just go through everything and I'll I'll let you know.

>> Do you do that in the street?

>> That's what we've been recommended to start.

>> Dude, I think that'll murder.

>> Absolutely.

>> They do it at events and it works really well. So like at at any events that are relative to credit, they'll walk up to the people at the event.

>> I think if you do that man on the street, it'll work really well.

>> Immigrants, it's hard to build your credit because when you come in, no one you have to start from zero and no one will even give you a credit card because you don't have any credit. So, I had to go through all this [ __ ] and build it up.

>> Yeah. I mean, obviously to make this content series work, we needed to have cards.

>> I think most people

>> most people even even when they have debit cards, I mean,

>> that's even even better.

>> Somebody pulls out a Wells Fargo debit card and I scream. I'm like,

>> dude, that was me like at the start of this year.

>> Except it was Chase.

>> A Chase debit card.

>> Well, yeah, but that's a good start. Especially if you're a business owner with no credit, the best thing you could do is bank with a bank that's going to reward you for creating a relationship with them financially, which is the only thing you can do if you don't have credit. So, like we have business owners that get approved for credit cards even though they have horrible scores because they're pumping 50,000 a month into the business bank account. So, they're like, "Yeah, you know what? I think we could make this work." It's like kind of the cheap

>> Well, they have your [ __ ]

>> Yeah. because like you don't have you don't have it's because you've given you've lent the bank $50,000, right? And so they know that they're you're good for 500.

>> That's what I mean. It's like you just think about it like well why why would a bank approve me or not approve me? It's like well the bank would want to be secured in the sense of they're going to give me something they want to know if they can get back. So they can't validate the credit but you have money going through that there's a security.

>> There's definitely not a lot of Sam's walking around though. I think you guys

>> I think you'll have plenty. Even if you did, you could still go through a while. Yeah, I think I'll bet you that would be really good as a because that could pro like we try and find some that like are like series because that's like there are themes and like

If we find something that really hits, then like we know that case studies always do really well for us. Um, they're really in-depth because those are kind of like the best of both because they're really in-depth. We get business owners, but there's a narrative to it, so people, there's kind of like a little bit of a story that goes with it, and so those do really well. So, uh, those work.

The, um, the Brana series, Still Murders, I just put one out yesterday. Um, I don't do them as much because they're a little wider, but, um, I'd said Michael and I were talking yesterday. I was like, "Let's do one just to prove that we can still do it." And it's [ __ ] killing it.

Of course, >> one of the uh kind of the things for uh for people that maybe are they're using Tik Tok but they're not using it in a native way that we've also found work pretty well is >> on Tik Tok it's well if you double post a video on Instagram. >> What was that made? >> Like you take the exact same video but change the hook. >> Oh, like that you split test the length or you play with the video and you post it back to back. It's weird on Instagram. People are like, "What the hell are you doing?" You do that on Tik Tok, nobody gives a [ __ ] because it's you're not really clicking on their profile. You're seeing a video on your feed. And so, one of the things that our team does is we'll post the exact same video back to back to back times in a row on the same day, all different hooks, different lengths, different segments, and then we'll take the best performing video and then we'll post that on Instagram. And then we'll use that one as the baseline continually do reposts on. It's like the body parts of the ads that you do.

>> So, Tik Tok works more like ads. >> You know how you launch ads? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's really interesting. What do you think, Trevor? Trevor runs all our shorts. >> That's interesting. Tik Tok doesn't flag you >> for doing that. >> We actually uh we actually work with the guys that you guys used to work with. >> Oh, yeah. >> Well, we have only an So, but >> interesting because we when we've been like changing out hooks, they've been flagging it and then moving it up from the for you page, which is weird. >> I don't know. So you have >> Yeah. >> I mean, sometimes uh both videos will go viral >> and we'll be like >> cool. >> When you said they when you say they flag it, is it like a thing that you have to look into the analytics of that specific video to see? >> Um, no. They're like, we just get like a notification that has been Yeah. >> An actual violation. It's not like you look at the video and you're like, "Oh, this was just shown to nobody on the for you." You can delete there. >> Yeah. That's wild though. But it works on both platforms too. >> No, >> no, no, no. So, we does not work on Instagram. So, >> yeah, making that clear. Do not do this on Instagram. Like, you'll have a bad time. >> We have a lot of >> the video the video of the the variations, let's say five variations on Tik Tok. The waiting variation gets posted on Instagram. >> Yeah. >> And it performs well on Instagram because those algorithms like I've not >> we still haven't been able. Yeah. Ours have we've seen more and more separation between basically each platform has has become more and more native in terms of the content like like we used to be like if it banged on Tik Tok it would crush on YouTube shorts and it would crush out on Instagram and it's like two years later it's they're all three are very different.

A lot of a lot of it's more on the reposting. So on the initial posting, our team will just post one video on Instagram, one video on Facebook, three versions on Tik Tok, one version on YouTube. Whatever version wins on TikTok, when we do the repost in a month or two months, three months down the line, that's the one that will continue repost.

>> I do love the the hook split testing. So cool. We took a video from like 4,000 to 4 million plus. >> Yeah. >> Just from changing the oven >> 3 4 seconds. >> It's crazy because one of our most recent viral videos, which was one he did on a hack, it was an American Airlines hack on like getting a free check bag. >> We posted that video like three or four times and it never performed crazy good. And it and it just wasn't until we did this strategy that he was just exploring different hooks, different storytelling, did we finally nail it and it went like >> 1.52 million on Instagram like after the fifth post. >> So it's a lot of it is about how how many times can you test the video and put it in front of the audience to see what when it's going to stick, which we use Tik Tok as our playground. >> Yep. Because Tik Tok like we don't care like five times same video doesn't matter that's all.

>> Yeah, we have um I would say like for everybody who's watching at home and going through this, if I had to give my two cents um I would say the there's been one direction that has just I've been marketing for a long time. Um, the hook is everything. And the longer I've been doing this, the longer I think that it's just more and more like obsessing over the first 5 seconds, the first 30 seconds on YouTube. Like we we spend so much time trying to get it in done under eight seconds for the intros. Like most of you guys just need to get to the point faster. Like you don't like like they'll figure out the context along the way, but if you give too much context up front, they'll just leave before they even got to the video. And so that that applies doubly so for shorts as it does for long. I mean, we just went through that whole um bit there, but for longs, it's just as important. And we'll test we'll have like we won't test them because YouTube you can't really test that way, but like we'll do two or three different intros and in post they'll they'll watch them as they go be like, "Okay, this is the bus."

>> I've heard you also mention though like that you always will kind of like reintroduce who you are from the new people. How do you balance that with getting to the point? >> And so two things. One is we're just experimenting with this now, but we had this idea. >> So now we're just using it as a lower third. So I can go right into it. Only talk about the topic and the bottom says Alexi founderacquisition.com portfolio $200 million a year. >> So people can see it and still listen. So it doesn't take up the time of me saying it. >> Yeah. >> So we just have that. >> It's like no mention, just text. >> Yeah. Just like a lower like a banner kind of across the bottom like like you see on a TV show like who the person is, what the role is and whatever.

>> What is the what is the checklist you currently have for like a short form video like assume assuming you have one that you kind of want? >> So it's more for filming in terms of how the checklist work of like just making like all the things that have to be done right for the filming. But in terms you probably Michael I'm like answering your I don't know you can >> for for filming or >> for shorts. >> Trevor, do you have a checklist for shorts? Asking content. >> Yeah, content wise like what's the >> Yeah, let's do following. Sure. >> Yeah. >> No, we're just asking about content. Is there like a thing of like I want a video on this like it needs to meet these things before I try and like before I would have said your checklist might have been hook story value. >> Yeah, >> it's really just Huck, man. That's what we spend all our time on is Hooks. >> Okay. >> We spend so much time on Hooks, dude. Hooks is like the only thing that matters. We like score guide books for our shorts but like they like literally as far certain categories. >> Okay. >> And is it is that like changing it bas like the categories are the same across the platforms that you guys post on or is it different like by >> similar platform similar it's like you know like what makes a strong hook. Here are five categories six categories.

>> Do you rehook them? Do you do a double hook after a certain amount of time >> or you just do the one first initial hook >> for a shorter or long >> for like a longer form? >> For long is there's open loops constantly the whole I mean you're you're looping the whole way through. >> Yeah. >> Just dropping it in there.

>> Something on like long form videos. I mean it's like super small but I just be very wary of it of like the type of language that you're using is is you don't want to use conclusive language. Um, it's like like you don't want to use like in our and on our last point or like like I know it sounds like it's such a simple tweak, but it's just like I just be very mindful about using conclusive language while you're going through the videos because it's always like you want to keep them hooked to the end and keep them watching for as long as possible. It's almost like you want to lead them on a cliffhanger in a sense. >> Yeah. Like especially with YouTube, it's a lot of it's based off of watch time. So if they know that it's going to end, you're [ __ ] That's why like I learned at the end of my podcast to not say like, "Well, thank you so much for coming on. and I appreciate you, Bubba. Most people are jumping off at that point and it's going to impact my podcast episodes reach in a certain sense. So, if I just say like at the end of a conversation point, the video just ends, it's better than me saying, "Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you." I just thank them when the camera's off, you know? >> So, you just soprano black screen like literally that. >> Yeah. >> And then I just have a picture of me pop up Italiano. >> No. Yeah. It's funny. Our whole Yeah. Yeah, I mean my whole content team's here.

>> Um, any other like I mean any other things that are working well uh in terms of driving sales for school or the communities from content? >> For us, what we started to do right now is that we do weekly um Q&As. Um, it's just like every week there this is like you do that for I don't know like 40 times a year. You have like one hour each. So you have 40 hours of recording which is usually not we didn't repurpose that. Uh, and we just did two small changes and now we can repurpose that because it was, you know, the the laptop and the camera of the laptop and now we just woke the camera for I don't know 1k and then the recording is in like and the lighting and the camera so it just becomes a studio for you and then uh we just started to use OBS so it's not going to the zoom cloud. So we have the perfect recording uh of the 1 hour and then we just give that to short form editors and we have like four or five shorts from that. So so in a year it becomes like 150 200 shorts that where you are in the flow just like you guys are doing right now. So we do the same for for the webinar stuff and like >> I'll share that our secondhand stuff like this getting repurposed does significantly worse. Um, I mean we I mean you can chime in, but I we've basically if I go direct to camera and like make shorts, they crush. If I try we do this, it takes a ton more manpower to get through it and the clips still don't perform as well as just like a perfectly curated short. Just from like viewer perspective. Maybe it's just me, but regarding your stuff, I just uh I always watch the ones that you post where you are in a mastermind session. Okay. >> Because for me, it's just I don't know. But this is just Yeah. This is just my personal opinion, but I'm like I feel like that this is relevant. There are like one 10 million um, you know, business owners in the in the room. So I like oh, this must be valuable. So maybe it's relevant to less people, but maybe they are higher quality. And >> and this is this has been fundamentally like that little anecdote is why we still make deep stuff that has low views. >> Like I I'm probably going to make a video soon that's about like how private equity works and it's going to bomb. It's going to be horrible. Uh, but like 15 people will watch that and be like, "Oh, this is amazing. I want to be >> this room. This room will watch it for sure." Right. Yeah. No, it's true cuz when I come when we have our our workshops that we run every once in a while, if I asked the room, who here like what was the video that you guys really dug and they all talk about all the deep business ones and like so who here came from Mosy Meals or even Brutally Honest, which is that whole series? Like no one. It's like it's not even like 6040. It's like 90 955. It's tiny. There's like four hands that go up. And so it's been reinforcing for me. Luckily, I have like real person that I can do this. Honestly, I'm just trying to tell you guys. Um, but if you just talk about credit card stuff, then you're going to get people who are going to want to like know more about credit card stuff. And it's just a much smaller audience than people want to know about relationships, food, and mindset.

>> Well, actually, there's a lot of people that like credit. >> Oh, sure. Well, yeah. I mean, I'm thinking for me, but yeah. For most for most true B2B or higher level B2B, as soon as I say like, "Listen, if you're trying to go from a million a month to 10 million a month," that hook is literally like an anti-hook [Laughter] unless people would just watch it to troll um like no [ __ ] way this guy's yeah, whatever, right?

>> Um, one other thing I noticed that that works really well and this is more funnel specific than it is content. The problem is I still see it working for people that do it the way that I think is uh less efficient, which is whether you're using links, um, telling people to click in the bio or using an automation to where you send them in the DM. Anytime I've I've put a link on a story using their link sticker, anytime I've put a link in the caption, anytime I've done anything other than using a trigger word for a ManyChat automation, it's performed less than it has using the direct link. But I've also seen so many people just use the link and it's worked really well. Sam um actually advised me to just use the link directly on on one of the things that I was doing for a different community. So, I've seen it work. It just never works as well than creating a ManyChat automation. Probably 90% of the people in this room know that and do that, but it's the only other thing I can think of right now.

>> No, that's great. >> That's good. Any other questions on content? >> Okay. Easy peasy. Oh, the last thing I was going to ask on content is are you are you more like focusing on one or are you like trying to perfect them all? Because obviously now all the algorithms are so different. You can't just repurpose across or is that kind of what people are doing? Are you guys all creating specific content for all different platforms like podcasts, YouTube, Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook? Like what's the go on that?

So I think it's repurpose first and then over time you look at your highest leverage platforms and then you start giving some love and making platform specific content. Like we just like I've like I'm trying really hard to make podcasts, but I still for the most part use YouTube videos. Um, Trevor would know that from shorts perspective, you guys just make them a little bit different by platform. We don't release the same stuff on every platform. So like Tik Tok has different content than Instagram does. Instagram has different content than YouTube shorts.

>> If we're getting more diverse to especially like Leila, what we're doing right now, >> you'll see a lot of different stuff from all their different platforms. This get more diversified because it's just not we're to a certain point of repurposing until we've now reached the we have to do something to >> Yeah. In order to grow beyond here, we have to get more specialized. Once you kind of like start to decline or level out, you go, "Okay, now we just switch up."

>> So we I would say like repurpose first across everything like start doing one which you guys are already doing and then it's like get on all the platforms and then naturally one of them will do a little bit better than the others and then it's like cool, then that's going to be the next one that I'm going to focus on actually like doubling down on what's good making it better, not taking the struggling one.

>> Uh, I've I've been very curious about this. You obviously I've seen that are very consistent on LinkedIn for a while now as well. Obviously very different content, but I was always curious to ask like what what do you notice from you being consistent in l on LinkedIn like the return from it? >> So the best part about LinkedIn is is the talent. >> You get team from LinkedIn. >> That's why you do it. >> I recruit a lot of people. >> Oh my god. >> We have a thousand employees, too. >> No, but I never thought of that's the reason you do it. I was thinking from a client stand. That makes sense. As you level up, everything becomes about talent. >> Everything is about who you can bring in, >> right? Or you're limited to your >> There's only one you, right? >> Right. Yeah. It's about how many really intelligent, hardworking people who are value aligned can we bring in.

>> So, it has nothing to do with like business like getting clients. >> Oh, sure. I mean, there's still high quality businesses that come in from LinkedIn, but like >> the reason you put content there. >> For sure. That's my like for sure. That's my reason. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. They I mean, and we do a lot of our recruiting outbound on LinkedIn and so they know who we are. They see the they see the they see me. They see Leila. They see acquisition.com's content. They see you know the team that we have associated. They can click through it. Like they're like, "Oh, this is legit." Yeah, that's the that's the biggest one. But the link in my opinion, I think LinkedIn audiences are super valuable overall. Like if I wanted to go raise money, I'd start with my LinkedIn audience. >> Oh, yeah. Interesting. >> Yeah. I mean the average income I think is like 120,000. It's just a completely different demo >> versus like Tik Tok which is like >> the content that you could you or not can or should post there is also very different. >> Yeah. >> LinkedIn. >> Yeah. >> You have to feed them differently. >> I mean, we we basically treat it like for the most part I it's kind of like adapted Twitter with an image. Sometimes we have videos on there, but it's like they'll take two or three of my tweets, string them together as the as the post, and then put an image and like that's what just consistently murders front. >> Makes sense. >> Yeah. >> And I don't I actually don't produce any of the LinkedIn stuff. I just tweet and that's how they like the tweeting has still been my number one biggest life hack of content by far. Bar none. Not even close. I think everybody needs to have that thing.

>> Oh, you blew my brain with this. When I watch the the content thing on acquisition.com, coming up with content ideas, I tweet [ __ ] randomly throughout the day. It's like why I just put it in the void. I'll think of something [ __ ] up and I'll just tweet it. >> Like I tweeted last week, LA sucks. You know, but um just in general like >> deep content. >> Yeah. And then when I'm thinking of content ideas, I'll just go look at my tweets and you read one, you're like, "Perfect, I could talk about this." You just start yapping a little longer. >> Just yap a little longer. >> Yeah. So I think having some sort because in the in the early part of my career I just had this long email chain to myself and then I flipped that to just tweeting the same things that because I had this every year I would review like lessons and failures like what did I do this year that was bad, what was good, and how can I learn from it? I just I used to review that every year. It's just a discipline I had. And so then I started doing those publicly on Twitter and then I just started tweeting instead. And then the thing is is that those those captions we squeeze the living life out of them because those tweets independently get reach and get email opt-ins and all the stuff that comes from from Twitter. From there, the team, if you look at my Instagram, that you know, one out of two or one out of three of the posts that we have are tweets that have been put with an image behind them as reals. The caption on that image will be a different tweet that they pulled that was relevant to the other tweet. The emails that we occasionally send come from there. LinkedIn posts all come from tweets that have been threaded together. The brutally honest videos. Michael pulls 30 tweets that he thinks are relevant to friendship or loyalty or whatever, right? Or profit or whatever, right? And then he puts them together and then we work our way through them and that's the law. Like everything comes from that wellspring for me. Um, and so if you don't have like I would recommend having one. And so one is you just do them as they come. The other way to really find content that I think is unique that's not like what's trending right now is just go through your calendar. Literally just look at all the things that you did that week and then you can think about, oh yeah, I was on that thing with that customer and then they had this question, right? So when you and then you go right into it and so that gives you because you're going to you always live more life than you make content. And so you always have more things to talk about than you possibly have time to record. And so that's that's been help like how do you how do you uh think of content? And I'm like, dude, I so much there's tons of things I didn't talk about that happened this week. Cool. All right, that was concept.

Okay, I think we uh we hit women in the red dress. We hit team building and roles. Um, we're not going to talk about sellability. Um, centralized ry said we hit that. Uh, organic setters, hire them. Where do you find them?

>> Where do you find them? >> Yeah, >> your community. Do you need to >> if you can't? They're like they're literally the easiest easiest role to source. >> There's so like there's companies you can you can use your community. You can hire a company that'll give you uh setters. >> There's a lot. Right. I would recommend Have you done the setting yourself? >> Uh, yeah. I mean, >> yeah. >> Well, then you'd be able to train somebody else on it. >> Well, I don't really set. People just book calls. >> Okay. >> So, you wanted to hire a setter. She'd get more book calls. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um, have you set before though? >> No. I mean, not really. And other than just DMing people and saying, "Do you >> Well, that is setting. >> That's setting. Um, I mean, all you do is you take that and turn it into scripts and they become DM setters, which is like a super common thing that many people do.

>> Yeah. I guess I like what about like payment payment structures and stuff like that? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't obsess really hard on payment structures for that. I mean, incentivize what you want. Have a base that's not crazy. I've just I'll say this. I have never seen a sales compensation structure change behavior dramatically. And so a lot of guys like will mess around like we've changed gym we changed gym launch comp like for sales guys like six times, still the same close rate, didn't change anything, just a big hassle for HR like what? So like I didn't have the frames that I have now to think through this, but like now it's just like, will they somehow act differently now? Probably not because they want to do a good job. Yeah, that's even more beyond like what I'm thinking. I'm just like, what is like a like a baseline?

>> Depends if they're US or It depends if they're US or remote. If they're remote, you can get setters for like 500 bucks a month. If they're US, you can probably get them for four grand a month. >> Good ones. Good ones for six >> community. >> Oh, really? Cool. >> Good school community about appointment setting where you can find appointment setters and hire them and stuff. >> There's a school for that. >> Yeah. Do you have a way that you would assess someone like interviewing someone whether or not they were financially or monetarily driven versus just >> self-reward driven like doing a good job being the reward? >> Sure. Have I um No, I don't have any interview questions for it. I would just say that if somebody if somebody has a high amount of skill in a particular domain, they will have more ways to reward themselves. So that's kind of the definition of an expert, right? And so you can tell in my opinion how skilled someone is in a domain by the breadth of their vocabulary and the quantity and quality of metrics they track relative to their role. So if I want to know if someone's good at content, I want to hear the words that they use to talk about content and I want to hear the metrics they discuss with the content. And so if someone's like, "Just need to make good content," I'm like, "Well, that's super vague." If someone says, "All right, well, we need to get our hooks right. We should be getting at least 85% of people to watch the first 30 seconds on YouTube. I'm pretty sure that we can we can improve that in these three ways." Basically, like the more nuanced they are um in the role, sorry, in their language, the I use that as an approximation of skill.

>> Alex, you just said something that like just changing my perspective here a lot. You said that sales behavior didn't change with comp compensation plan adjustments. >> So if I'm trying to change sales behaviors or if I'm trying to incentivize certain things or not incentivize certain things, what have you seen that you did change that did actually affect the behaviors? >> So I'll say number one, so there's one comp change that I did that that has worked and we've made that standard, which is we compensate on cash collected on the first payment. That's it. Um, and so like we didn't like I've tried it off close rate. I've tried it off like cash collected kind of aligns everyone because the more cash they collect, the more incentivized the customer is. And so they don't just try and like weak close people because they know that if they cut the down payment in half, they cut their commission in half. So they really try and sell when they do it that way. So that's probably the only uh commission change that I did that has borne fruit across a bunch of different companies. Um, beyond that, it's rapid reward systems >> like boys. Just good good stuff, man. Keep it up. That type of deal, >> but like really fast. Yeah. >> As soon, like as soon as you see it, they go set up. If you come through his calendar, I'm texting them like >> within 10 seconds if possible. >> As fast as you can. >> Okay. >> You guys want to know why sales stats are always higher than their actual closing stats? >> Because people get rewarded for saying make close someone in Slack, not for closing them. It's faster. We use Zluck for like everyone book everyone who books a call get a message like on Zluck and then we message them sometimes you can call them like send them an audio and that works really well like we got people that booking up to like seven calls seven seven calls a day alone just because like they they're on the streak and they want to book more they're like if we see that we're going they're going very well we give like um a bonus but not like a money bonus like a gift something personalized >> non-monetary huge fan we're like Chipotle gift cards. You mean like dude, you crush it this way. Like, you know what I mean? Like right after they like just had a mega day and you know, hit a record for them. It's like anything that's personal best, we always try and reward um immediately. And then team best, we try and reward the team. I also strong like I've changed my view on this. I used to be really big on competition between the team and I have completely 180ed on that. Um, I'm really big on competition of this team versus everyone else. What do you mean versus >> us versus everyone? Not you guys fighting for top spot >> within organization or or external. >> No, like who here who like you guys have the other insurance companies that you don't like. >> Every guy that you don't close, they're closing, >> right? >> You're dooming that customer to be a customer of theirs, which we know is not going to help them. >> Making enemies of the competition type deal. I see. Okay. >> Us versus them. When you were talking about setters, you said like a remote setter, different country, 500 versus US 4K. Why would you pay 4K over 500? Is there like an advantage? >> Uh, it depends on the the people you're talking to. If you're doing like online fitness sales, you're going to need remote setters because the ticket's small. If you're doing like higher ticket, more nuance sales in the US >> and you might just want to have a US employee. Yeah, >> like we've used VAS for like what I would consider like the really brute force work for like gym launch. So like data enrichment, scraping lists, things like that we use VAS for. But once it gets to people talking on the phone, it's all us. >> Really? Is there a particular reason like if you don't could you >> just >> I think we're just used to it. I'm not against it. I think we're just like relative to the revenue in that business like the the the cost savings would be like >> really immaterial either way. >> That makes sense. >> One thing I would say when it comes to VAS on the phone is that uh VAS in the Philippines have a dialect very similar to people in the US which tends to I don't know if it makes that much of a difference, but like VAS in India for example have an accent which some people um align to you know, things that are not >> callers. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> I just heard >> I was trying to say not say the word scam, >> but um, yeah, VAS in the Philippines have a very good English dialect where it sounds like an American and it tends to work much better. >> Yeah, >> I think we got setters. >> Do you have any other questions? Actually, >> uh that's that's good. Yeah, it's either go Philippines, which is the good I would say the best country for um Okay, I don't want to speak in that kind of I've heard decent things about Filipino um setters. That's a huge generalizations for an entire population. >> Alex, I don't think we have this on the board and it's more VA specific than it is setters. Should I ask now? Maybe. >> I don't know that much. I'm so far removed from like setters in my life, right? I probably wouldn't be able to give you good answers. I guess for everyone in the um around the tables, I was curious about like what you guys have implemented for moderation when the group grows like very massive. Say you have 10,000 people in the group. Like do you have VAS that are working on moderation? Is that I have like an automation right now that moderates one of my communities. But um, just from a moderation standpoint, what do you guys do? >> Have you turned on when it gets crazy, you can turn on unlock posting at level two? >> That's on. Yeah. But it's also super quick that they reach you they reach level two like >> makes a big difference. We turned it on in in our in school games and school community. It made it a lot easier. >> You still need a moderator >> over posting but just like like someone watching out for like negative stuff like moderate actual moderating. >> True. But we did know like Kirby and I did a little analysis. We looked at every post that was [ __ ] that we had to delete. And then we looked at their profile to see what level they were at and if they had ever commented and they most of the time were at level one. And I mean like 98% of the time they were at level one and all they had done was post. They never thought to comment. They just want to shout at the group. They never want to help an individual. Right? So that thing unlock posting at level two. definitely helps. Beyond that, I would just you need a moderator like who should be your community manager. I think you only really need one person honestly. >> No matter how big it is like what about the anime shreds group? They don't have >> school is way bigger than anime shreds. >> School. The school will get >> our community. We have 100 thou how many people? >> Yeah, true. We have 120,000 and we have one person that's like their part-time job. >> Yeah. But in terms of posting though, we're definitely not like Discovery kind of shows you the highest engaged groups and I don't think a school community is probably 20 or something at the moment. >> Oh, all right. Yeah, very much. Um, I think what you can do is like I've already you start to realize who is it the same people you've noticed are reporting like content. >> So things that I've done is like one of the like big members in the community that engages a lot and seems to be very helpful. She'd always message me like, "Hey, this all this post whatever." So I just made her an admin change her membership to free um and incent. >> Yeah, that's what I'd recommend doing. Like I've noticed that some people are really good at flagging stuff for admins >> and then I realized, oh, if they just were an admin, they could have deleted it >> and then it we wouldn't have had to have waited until like we saw the report, right? >> So I think once you know who those key members are, come up with a little deal like maybe you give them free membership, maybe you pay them a little something, I don't know, >> and make them an admin. Yeah. >> You still need one person who's responsible for like owning it, but the members can help >> with that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Best person I know for this is a guy called Calvin Hollywood. >> Matthew did an interview with them recently. He's really good. >> I joined his community. It's all in German, >> but uh Google Translate is pretty good. >> I got to level five in a German community. Just speaking German. >> It's really >> Were you speaking German? I use Google Translate. They don't even know. >> It's great. >> They wouldn't know it. >> Well, you probably just sound like Rejieve. You know what I mean? Like in the US, like I think you know what he's saying. >> It's really good though. >> It's good. >> I've always liked to see a little controversy here and there in the group. Like with the moderation, like if you keep it too dry and boring, there's no drama. Like people will not get as engaged. But like, and I know this sounds crazy, but I found some wild sales coming off of that. like, "Oh, I'm gonna kill this dude on the leaderboard because he's talking about like, you know, my blah blah blah blah blah." I want to Yeah. I'll be like, "Oh, dude, you got to get in the program like right now." Then >> there was one uh comment thread in our Facebook group. It was like 200 comments long and these people debating back and forth about like what type of life insurance was better. >> It got really dirty. It was kind of like it was like you're too poor to feel your family and >> Yeah. And I sold them like we we sold those people. They were like, "Oh, we we got to kill this guy on the leaderboards and like, you know, shut him up." And now they're driving a Tesla Model S and they have a really nice house. >> Yeah, I always like a little bit of friendly competition. It just gets bad when like they start they'll have a 100 comments back and forth and I'm watching it. >> Oh, you got you got to keep it under control. >> I'm letting it go, but then it gets [ __ ] up when they both message me separately like >> my god, did you see her comment? >> Like she's like I don't think she's a true believer. I'm like >> oh well I don't know. >> I say both of them the same thing. Like don't worry about her. like you're an amazing member. >> Yeah, there's a fine line. You got to be careful about like a little bit of drama can be healthy for sales sometimes. You know what I mean? >> Like social media. >> No, dude. I'm not going to write that one up. But >> yeah, >> cuz it's too good. >> That's very secret for sure. >> Let's take that one out.

The biggest thing I learned though from Alex is that like when they when someone's expressing that they're upset about something, just tell them so what.

So, you guys want to do offer stuff uh or teaching ads to flooring or paid ads? So, we got two ads things and one offers thing. >> Teaching ads to flooring sounds so cool. >> That's actually that's actually not what it was kind of. I mean, it's written there, but it's it was more so about like qualifying people to sign into the group, but really it seems as though I need to break down more of it into the classroom for them to understand the skills so that I don't have to manually teach that as much to them. Really >> how to run their own ads. >> Or we can cover >> their ads myself. >> Okay. Then what part do you need to teach them? >> Uh, the sales. >> Oh, sales. >> Yeah, because they're usually off of referrals. Got it. Sales. They've never understood. Yeah, you absolutely need to teach sales. >> Yeah, >> like it's Yeah. And I'm sure you have a process that works pretty well that's that goes with ads. >> In what way do you eat the complexity though and eventually just do the sales for them? Like >> we've never done it. >> We've just been pretty good at teaching sales. Um, we have this upsell that we call boiler room. uh which is every day um in the morning this we we allow their salespeople because gym owners have multiple employees and whatnot their salespeople to attend and then my sales manager would drill them on the scripts and so basically we'd run like a daily call for them because they don't know how to manage or train sales and so we just did it for them. >> I technically have that every day but it's 8:00 p.m. so move it to the morning. >> I don't think the time will I mean just go whenever the guys are available. I would definitely prefer to do in the beginning of the day so it sets them like up for the day because then they're just like 8 p.m. they go to sleep and they forget about it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But honestly, this isn't me doing as a slight, but um, if that's not working, it might just be the training is not good enough. >> Oh, it isn't. >> Okay. Yeah, I'd say I'm not I'm not saying that as a slight. Um, yeah, it's probably just really breaking down the core components of like this is the first thing that you do. >> Great. We're just going to drill that. Well, nurture you can do a lot nowadays for them, >> I think. Yeah, you can do a lot of nurture for them. You can probably automate nurture. >> Uh, but the sales calls they still probably have to take >> at a certain point. If you own all of acquisition, including sales. >> Yep. >> When that happens, then at that point, like >> just partner. Yeah. I mean, like just be like, fine, how much like what's the cheapest you'll do these these floors for? And then sell it for as much as you can sell it and make the difference and then just call it a day. Would you ever go into the business in different locations as opposed to >> consider it? >> I would I would like I would look at that model or what I just said which is like if you already have a base of you know 300 locations across the US then you could run national level campaigns to a centralized sales team get pre-negotiated rates for everyone and then just sell the spread and just print. >> We work with our distributor as well too on the sales. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I like that model personally because there's no cost. Mhm. >> You just get them to have the agreements and then you just have to have a really good handoff process uh for the customer. But as long as that's good, then they might be like like first meeting you have is just with the customer at their house and then it just makes it really easy. And if you have like you no show three times in a row, we don't send you customers anymore. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I was uh I was kind of curious obviously the uh Andrew Tate strategy of like giving people your content to repost and then giving them an affiliate offer. >> Curious if that still works or if that only worked like basically for him. >> I don't know. I mean, we're going to have affiliates and we can find out really fast. >> I think it's amazing. I just think it's hard to actually execute because of the affiliate thing and the complexity involved with that, >> the payouts and all that. >> Yeah, that's where everyone gets stuck. >> Is there any way to would that be like automated? >> That's what we're releasing in a few weeks. >> Yeah, that's what we're doing. >> You set like, hey, it's 20% of whatever the value is and then when they get as long as they're a member that someone signs in through there and then they get paid out that percentage. >> Yeah, that's what we're going to do. So, it was it was something that I was like I was considering. I was like, it would be really easy to just give everyone our content and be like, "Cool, go make your pages, repost. Now you can >> you'll be able to do that with school this year." >> I think it's perfect because it allows people a way to make their membership free too essentially because they just refer like two people. >> Yeah. >> And bam, now it's free. And if they cancel, they lose that, which would make no sense. >> So, your attention's good. Plus, from the stats I've seen, like people that buy from referrals are three times more likely to refer. So, you

know, you get really good clients, too, right? Um, and it distri takes some burden off you in terms of like traffic generation. So, there's so many good things about it. I swear just the um annual payments. Yeah. and the affiliates and the improvements we were making to churn and then in the improvements we're making to the about page conversion rate. Those things are like all we really need to do to triple most communities.

Yeah, I would say that's uh affiliates just in general in anything that we've ever done has always been non-existent. Like whether we sold service, product, course, zero on the affiliate side. Just we've never really had success with how much we can give them based off margin on the service side. You know, margin is a lot lower than a digital product or how we positioned it or how we even try to do outreach. So affiliate would definitely be helpful.

So I'll I'll just say this now for the affiliate thing. Um, I've run a lot of businesses with affiliates. So Prestige Labs was all affiliates. Allen my software company was all affiliates. Um, you know, school has obviously a huge amount of affiliates. Um, you basically have to treat them like another class of customer. And so if you think about them like customers, then it makes a lot easier because you're going to advertise to get them. You're going to sell them like a customer and then you're going to onboard them like a customer and have training on how to do your thing like a customer. It's just the opportunity that you're selling is your business and them partnering with you more than whatever the, you know, whatever the main thing is. And so most people are like, "Hey, look at this big incentive." That's kind of like saying, "I can just incentivize by way to get everyone to do something without having the training." Like the better the training is, the more people will be able to do it. Otherwise, the big car just selects for the best people who already have the skills to make it work. But if you teach the skills, then you'll get way more people to do it. Like Prestige Labs, gyms don't inherently sell supplements. Small gyms don't. They just don't do it. There's a number of reasons. And so I had to like sell them on why selling supplements is a good thing. And then I had to sell them on why selling my supplements is a good thing. And then I had to show them how it was not going to cannibalize their business but make them more money. And then I had to integrate it into their existing sales process. It's like you do this sale first and then you do this sale second and this will cover your lead cost. So you can get all your leads for free if you just sell supplements rather than like walking them through it. It's like the second you can position like like at this point the sales system for Prestige Labs for affiliates is a slide deck that we tell them not to speak during. So they have a customer and then they just open and we're like, "What do we tell them to?" We say, "Just only read the words on the screen. Do not add words. Just read the words on the screen." And then the screen literally makes the offer and then they just accept the money. That's how it works right now. I'm dead serious. Dead serious. It's a $30, $40 million business.

Should we take just a quick break? Sure. Like, so uh we have offer improvement. We have paid ads, I think. What was that? Ads. K A paid ads. Paid. I just want you to read I just want you to read things to me. Pay ads or um or it could be or it could be something that isn't even on this board. Yeah. Anything else? Anything that's come up organically or inorganically? Usually at this point people want to ask Mosi about life. Meaning of life questions. What kind of shoes are you'll be? I These are only shoes I wear now. Been wearing them for a while. These are called barefoot. B A R foot. They're um Chris Duffin from Kabuki Strength makes them and they're really good because I I don't like socks. So, I don't own any and so uh you can wear them sockless and they don't smell. That's the key because they're all leather inside too. So, I can wear these to like the beach, to the gym, to nice restaurants because they're also leather. So, I can wear them for all occasions. Yep. I've said a long time I probably bought 300 pairs of shoes before you found the one. Yep. And so I have like seven pairs of these and they're all the same. Yeah. I I told the I I messaged the owner. I was like, "If you go out of business, like please let me know beforehand. I'll just buy it just to keep it in business." I just really like the product. But all right. So what did you guys goose? Did you have anything? Did anyone have any topics that was interesting?

I would love if as a collective school group, we can merge on one model that we think is the most effective cuz so many people are doing different things. Yeah. And I found in previous programs, for example, Sam's old program, when everyone in a community is doing the same model, the results that everyone gets explodes because it's just like we're doing this now. can optimize each and every little piece of the puzzle. Yeah, but that's kind of what we're doing. It's just everyone's trying different things. We can go through everything. Well then, Kirby, I don't want to lock things down until we find the most the best things because every right now people are trying so many different things and we're seeing how to like tweak it and I think it'll become more obvious over time. Yeah. I do know that free group funnels to high ticket phone calls works very well. So in terms of like run ad to free group or push traffic to free group here I'll just write it. I'm just saying this is this is working for that specific use case. So it's like you have eyeballs. So you go ads content outbound which goes to free group which goes to onboarding call which goes to high ticket or there's a lot of what Ted mentioned basically like that model works very well.

I would This is a good high ticket model to be clear, not the other stuff. But high ticket's also relative. Like we were just talking. So he was selling $10 gym memberships before we got into insurance. And so like I'm a very big advocate of just getting on the phone with customers for the many reasons we talked about earlier, but I think Paul Graham, I say this probably at every one of these, but Paul Graham said that you can solve just about every business problem by talking to your customers. It's like messaging is not right, talk to the customers. Like product's not good, talk to the customers. Like just talk to the customers. And so I think us getting on the phone with them just never makes you poor and you convert a higher percentage of them. You really hear the pain points, those become better ad product improves. I'm just a really big fan. The reason I like doing this stuff too, it's like because it it reminds me where everyone's at. Um, and so when I make content related to school, like the big blog posts I write, just because like if I hear a common theme over and over again, I'm like, alright, let me just put this to rest and then I write stuff about it.

If you're not talking to your customers every day, basically. I would wonder what you're actually doing. Seriously, cuz I spend still probably at least half of my day talking to customers every day. You just like send them Zoom links or just school DM them or? I've got many different like sometimes they're sending me. It depends how close the better the feedback, the closer I bring them. So, some people have me on text and WhatsApp. Some people are in my Slack. Some people we get on Zooms every now and then. Some people it's school DMs. Some people it's just in the community. Yeah. And so depending on sometimes I'm just shooting out some things to different people and getting an answer and other times I'm wanting to get on. If I know someone's very very big at affiliate stuff, then if I'm working on an affiliate feature, I'm going to send them a I just say, "Yo, you online?" question mark. And then when they say yes, I send them a Zoom link. And then they're just like on. And then I'm like, "What do you think of this?" Okay. And that's all there is to it, really. Like some things can be solved over chat. Yeah. Other things you want to get on a Zoom and you know like different people are care about different parts of what you're doing. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So you just kind of like figure out which community members care about what and then you reach out to them and talk to them. Yeah. And Ted and I were working on the affiliate stuff um just before we came here. Like all day we were staring at the screen and moving things around. Um, and then I convinced him to stay for a whole week. I was like, "You You're not going back to Canada, are you?" And he was like, "Yeah." And then I I made him stay for another week. I was like, "This is too good. You can't go back." Um, so now all of next week he's going to be sitting next to me and we're going to be staring at screens moving things around.

If you're interest like if you're looking for feedback on the affiliate stuff, like we're very interested. Oh, don't worry. I'll talk to you later. You're on You're on Sam's list. I stay at these things until the very end. Like because I want to This is the most valuable thing to me is talking to the customers and figuring out what to do cuz I want to know what to do and then I go and do it. And then once I've done it, I I need to know what to do next. Yeah. Yeah, I saw one of your podcasts where you talked about that and then I just started like blocking out time in my day to just like message people and talk to them. It's been huge. Yeah. And it's actually fun. But when I try to do it all on my own, it's very stressful. Even the smallest decisions sometimes cuz I really just don't know and I need something to help me like make a choice. Um, yeah. So, it can be a lot more fun and you can move a lot faster honestly when you have a customer like working with you on something. Even writing copy, honestly, if I'm struggling to write the text for a page, I'll just get on Zoom and I'll be like, "Hey, what do you think of this?" and share my screen and they'll be like, "Oh, I don't know about how you said that." And I'm like, "What would you say?" And then I start typing it live with them. Like, they want to collaborate with you. Yeah. Yeah, just let them help you. Yeah. So, that that makes things a lot easier. Honestly, if you're not doing that, um, there's a lot more to be gained. I always wonder like why aren't people doing that? Probably fear of them not being happy. But you haven't released it yet, so it's free. You're just giving them more time. Isn't it worse if you actually launch it hoping it works and then it doesn't work? Like that's the worst, right? You're trying to avoid that one.

Yeah. At Gym Launch we did um we ran a process that was really one of the keys that we were that made us sellable um was, you know, one of the big risks for buying is how who's going to innovate the product, right? And so we created somebody a department called R&D, but it was basically just like two guys who I trusted a lot who were some of the best gyms and I gave him a budget for $50,000 a month and I said, "Find out what the biggest problem is in the community." Which is usually pretty obvious every month. Like there's a theme that almost kind of like people latch on to and that becomes the thing. And so then I would say, "Grab 10 representative gyms from different markets." So this is applicable for you. Um, and also representative of different skill sets. So I'd have like, you know, two really good gyms, a bunch of mediocre gyms, that a couple of just blowing ass went gyms. And then we would run some sort of like, "Okay, well, let's see if this works." So it might be, "Hey, we're having low shop rates. Let's see if doing all voice memos to get people to shop like improve shop rates." And so we would basically make a mini module that was like an MVP. We'd give it to them and they would get an additional call every week that they would hop on and they had a little Facebook group or whatever at the time that was just them talking like the beta group. And everybody wanted to be in the betas because it was like the new stuff. Um, and then at the end every month we would just report what we did. And sometimes, and the thing is is I I thought originally um that, hey, if we did a split test on like voice memos via versus text and it doesn't work or it's the same, uh, that no one would care or want to find out about it. But that was not the case. If I just went on and like that was my release of the month was like, "Hey, we found out something that doesn't work." And so we like, "This is what we did. We had these people and this is how we ran it." Um, but two of these guys halfway through changed a couple things and they seem to have some slightly better results. So maybe try those. And so just seeing that like we took a month and money and effort to try something. For a lot of entrepreneurs, it's like they vicariously got to like itch their shiny object syndrome without having to do anything. And so also on the flip side is sometimes we did have big breakthroughs and it'd be like, "Guys, the release this month's going to be [ __ ] huge. It's like we, you know, we added 10% to close rate across 10 gyms with with employees, not with the manager." And they were like, "Oh, wow." And so this is what we did. We just added a pre-sale questionnaire with the moment they walked in the door. We had them fill it out before they got in the sale. We were like, "Holy shit." And so it's like, "Yep, pre-sale questionnaire." So start putting that in the process and we'd add that to the module and then they're like, "That became canon." And so over time, that's how we just consistently improve the product was just figuring out where people were struggling the most with it and then running tests with representative markets and a budget to do it. And then we just report on it and every month and and usually we had like scheduled out like two or three months like this month's going to be phone sales, next month it's going to be a show up rate thing. The month after that it's going to be something churn related. And so if somebody's in there, they're like, "Well, I'm really good on the phone, but shoot, I really need that churn thing." So they would it would pull them through the continuity to stay on because they wanted whatever the the two things from now was. And so it added a a nice little continuity component to it. But that was how I was able to remove myself from constantly trying to figure out like what's the new offer, what are the new ads, like what's the new Facebook placement that's working right now or TikTok ads or whatever the hell. Um, once we figured that out, it was like that was it.

Did you just do one a month? Yeah, I just did one a month. One beta. It's honestly it's enough for like one thing we realized is the biggest complaint we got at Gym was we gave too much stuff so we just decreased the cadence. I used to do a release like that every two weeks. People were just overwhelmed. So then I made it one release a month and then it was like three um more themed calls with the ads for Gym Launch. Oh, go ahead. Now you Now you finish because I'm going to switch gears. Okay. I was just going to say with the ads for Gym Launch because obviously you guys are running ads for like thousands of gyms, how do you make sure the ads work for everybody or make sure? We run them ahead of time. We run them in the representative markets first. We find the winners and then we blow those to everyone else. Okay. So you like even if you tested the winners, you could just release them for everyone because we're doing that. But it's like and those were releases too. We count that like so if one month like because because we wouldn't have to come up with new ads every like month. A lot of times winners would run for a while. And so we would always be testing stuff, but then we'd come up with like a new batch, like a really big batch of ads like every 12 weeks. And so one of the three big releases was always ads related. And so we'd be like, "All right, guys. Here are all the winning ads for the next quarter." And so everyone would take the winning ads. And then, well, what are you going to do? Leave. And then start making ads for yourself. For us, it's like because we're doing it for like maybe 15 to 20 people right now on a small scale, but then doing it for thousands, my concerns would just be like the results would dilute, but like you didn't really see that. Well, there's a lot of markets. Ours are like they're not usually local. Yeah, that was the thing that made yours work. Oh, that's I mean that's why actually yours is to promote too, but yeah, that was what was the brilliance of Gym Launch was like it costs a lot of money to test ads and most gyms can't afford a losing ad campaign and so it cost me zero dollars after I know what a winner is to give it to a thousand gyms and that was where the margin was. I don't think that model would work if he didn't if you didn't have the geography. Oh, no. Yeah, it was fundamental to why it worked. It was local then. So it would be tougher to make work on a national level. Yeah. I mean possible for thousands of people like definitely that's too much for 15 you probably won't have an issue. Yeah. So that's a problem I got to figure out how to solve then but on the other side of that big problem is a big bag of money. So the bigger the problem the bigger the bag in general.

So just because I wasn't here when you originally wrote this out, is this ads or content to a free group? We're saying this is what I've seen work best for high ticket funnels. Just what we've seen like across I mean Kirby feel free to chip in, but from the conversations and the Q&A calls and what I've seen in the groups like that funnel works pretty well. Which is ads/content into a free community that then goes to an onboarding call or onboarding call. Yeah, I mean, obviously he does the webinar, but like I like that model a lot, too. But this is what I just know. Which then goes to high ticket. And if they don't go high ticket, then it's back to the free. Yeah. Or to a low ticket. What if you What if you have your low ticket in place and you're simply just looking to develop an upsell? Like it would work the exact same way. You just replace the word free with LT. Okay. But you wouldn't have to like create content. Oh yeah, true. Yeah. So I know this is really relevant in terms of this is super relevant. No, no, that's not what I just meant like the specific uh the way he was looking at it initially because ours is already there. The head of the funnel is already done. It's just developing the high ticket. Yeah, I guess but we'd still need it sounds like you didn't change we wouldn't change anything until the last portion of it which is which just doesn't exist. But everything before it is already in place. We don't have the free. You replace that with LT. Yeah, you can replace it. I I will say that free works really well because the cost of free leads is one or less. That's across everything into like a Facebook group as a or school, right? You could also put some affiliate into the free group as well to liquidate some of the ad spend as well. But the the key here is that you just part of what makes this attractive is that they get some level of access which is that they get this onboarding call and then you sell them on this onboarding call more stuff.

I guess like one of the challenges I think of is like how do you differentiate like okay if we had a free community well right now in our paid community people get access to us once a week and I get you know probably better support. We don't need that though like that he's not saying that we should develop a free community that's the only that's in the classroom of the free community. It's literally like a VSSL that tells you to book a call. Yeah, but we we in our situation, we don't need the free community. I think having that up there is just confusing the situation. But the the front half of it already exists. He's saying that in our situation, instead of free, the word is LT. Got it. We already have ads and content directing towards the low ticket. The high ticket just doesn't exist yet. So everything that you see before free and the word free, we already have that. You guys just need I looked at your stats before. You just need to drive more people to buy that low ticket thing. That's it. If you can. Yeah. Which is probably just switching it from watches to always open. Have you run ads? We do have uh we have an ads funnel on the front end, but it's for a completely different offer and we just uh it was for an $800 credit score blueprint, which was an ebook through an uh AC funnel. Sounds like a very good low ticket offer. So, we just attached, we're just right now split testing putting in one of the upsells, whether it's upsell one or upsell two, having the community with a downsell to a $1 7-day trial. So, we're testing that right now just because I think possibly what happened with our ads is we were printing money on an offer just off the front-end offer with upsells for like eight months. at a 1.5 to 2x ROI. Then our CPA like February, April, March, June just skyrocketed to like 1.5 ROI down to like a 0.9 ROI and we were burning cash. So we ended up was like a skyrocket. It went from 1.5 to 0.9. Yes. But but when we had no high ticket and nothing else to sell them, when you're spending, you know, $20, $30, $40,000 a month, this is why I go back to front and you're paying ads agency to do stuff on top of it, like we're net negative like in the whole pre-bay. Yeah. I mean, fundamentally, you had a business that had front end and no back end. You could try running ads straight to the paid membership, the low ticket. I've heard that's not advantageous just based off the cost per acquisition is usually. I know two people that have made it work. Max P and Evelyn. I think there's more. I'm seeing it happen more often in the school games. People share screenshots and stuff. And I think it could change it too when there's annual because it definitely helps game for everybody. Yeah. You've got the payback, right? like more cash up front because a certain percentage take um take annual, but I'm pretty sure soon that that will outperform those funnels. Literally add like add to about page directly to a VSSL on the about page. Yeah. I can show you the other model. Yeah. You know, even easier. Yeah. Cuz you know, Austin, our guy who buys media, he knows a lot of media buyers, and he said that some people just realized that they could run ads straight to their Amazon product page. And it worked better than driving it to a funnel or or Shopify. And school's only going to convert better and better over time just as more and more trust goes on the platform. That's just like how it works. Um, and we're putting a lot of resources into optimizing the [ __ ] out of the conversion rate on the page because that obviously lifts every single community. Um, and I I think in a like very soon that will just be the way to do it because there's just going to be trust that if they bought then they would go to an onboarding call which sell. Got it. We did the school about page like directly there and like for the first two days we had like $3 cost per lead and then like a few days after was like $30, $40. So we just ended up going back to the instant form and then texting them the link to the school. Was it a paid group or free group? Free. That's weird. Then that's odd. Yeah. Yeah. Because across I mean most people are sub $10 like in every niche. It started off like amazing. I don't know if it was just hitting our warm traffic or what and then afterwards it just like terrible. Maybe it was just a terrible creative. Could just be terrible creative, bro. Maybe the same one converted with an instant form. It's a skiff. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the same creative converted with an instant form. So, I don't know. Weird. I don't know either. Yeah, that's I mean that's what obviously will be what we're what we're shooting towards for a lot of people. I we want to find the simplest business that like simplest model that works for the most people. This we know works right now like many people are doing that successfully. Um, and this will be the future model. I mean that's almost the same honestly because free is cool. Yeah. And the one thing I'd say about the top model, if there's any part of that that can be removed, it's the bottom right, like the free/ low ticket. And I know probably five online education businesses that are low ticket that make $300,000 a month. And I know probably a hundred that are high ticket that make $300,000 a month or more. It's just generally with these businesses, if you increase the price, you make more money. I'm uh I'm curious on like we have a we we've just been building our SMS list and we're about about like 10,000 now. I'm just curious how other people are using like SMS to drive traffic to uh their school communities. We could tell you how not to do it. Oh, we learned this one out the hard way. Never use emojis with SMS marketing because it changes the Unicode structure and then increases your segments by like four and a half or five times. So, I I never did SMS marketing, right? And I was running all the email marketing for our launch and they have a bunch of people on their SMS list, right? And just like they had a pre pre-built email list outside of what I built through the lead magnets. I'm like, you know what? Like, why not just blast a text to all these guys too for the launch trying to win the school games. Um, so whatever. I just crafted a quick message and sent it out. Why not? I'm thinking it's like 1 cent or something like that. They called me and they're like, "Yo, why'd you spend $2,700 on an SMS text? It was a good tax. $247 a month." Yeah. And it was it was the worst return on that we've ever had in our lives. For you guys, I wouldn't even care about that. I just remove it from your brain. Yeah. I would I would focus on email. Like that's cheaper. people are more willing to give it. Would you uh in the Sam I guess in that ad directly to school, would you send people from an ad directly to the school thank you page or create an actual sales landing page for the community but have like the standard opt-in in like sales funnel, but then the actual purchase obviously links them in. I would go straight to the about page. Um, obviously test if that works for you right now. Like I don't expect you to do something that doesn't work, right? Um, but we're going to optimize that page a lot. So, you know, things like Apple Pay, Google Pay, like and if you're on an iPhone on mobile, for example, will default it to Apple Pay so that when you click buy, it just pulls up that thing and you just have to double click and then bam. So, like we can do all kinds of little things that will improve that conversion rate. Um, and even things like, you know, we might allow you to have some reviews on there or recent purchases or we'll try all kinds of things. I guess from a which you have way more experience in ads than I do. Uh, but just from the little bit I do know, I'm like, well, if you're sending per pe people from an ad to a the current page, yes, you're getting the retargeting data, but you're not getting their email to put them into a sequence that then can make them convert. Well, you're talking about card abandonment, right? Well, yeah. If they We just did that. Well, yeah. If someone fills out step one, but not step two, we will follow up with them and send them probably three emails over 72 hours timed perfectly and tweak the copy for you, tweak the timing. And that's what I mean. We will do it. We're financially incentivized. Yeah. Yeah. Well, think about what's going to happen like if we just if we were to give like easy round estimates. So, if we just had the annual in there, that'll double everyone's cash up front. So, that's number one. Number two is if we add Apple Pay and Google Pay and all the other payment structures and we'll probably tweak a bunch of stuff on the page. I think it's really conserved that we can double the conversion on the page sitewide, right? So from those two together you have a 4x improvement in LTV to CAC. Affiliates. Yeah. Like yeah, just that and then with affiliates added on top of it, then it's like you have a whole another machine that can send you traffic every month. Right. I honestly in our situation don't think that we need to or should run ads at all specifically for the credit card but credit club right now. And I'm curious like maybe this might be too loaded but like what questions would you ask to determine whether or not you agree with me? That's so complicated. Um, max out what you can do. Just max out what you can do without running ads. Obviously, exhaust every possible avenue first cuz there's no point running ads if there's ways you could get customers that are free. But once you've exhausted it, what options do you have? Exactly. And I think it's nowhere near exhausted at this point. Well, exhaust it. I just want I just need it to be said by you guys so that that way it's led by. So, Alex, you you agree, right? I don't know. [Laughter] Yeah. I don't know what you guys are doing with with with organic, but yeah, sure. You could probably do more better. Less than 500 members and they have like close to a million followers. There's only been one launch over five days and besides that, no one's been allowed or able to buy. Yeah, man. Do more [ __ ]. More better. But aren't you running you're running ads for a different funnel right now? Yeah, it's more of like an SLO for a standalone product. Okay. Just for fun. So, a lot of your audience probably doesn't even know about this product. If you think about it, a lot of your audience probably doesn't even know about this product because it's hidden behind some other product. So if you think about it as just a simple communication mechanism, most of your million people don't even know what the [ __ ] this is. Tell them a lot all the time. Yeah. Cuz you had recommended to me when we were talking and you were like, "Hey, maybe just get rid of that other product and only push the group." Yeah. So for some context, that product in the beginning was used as a lead generation funnel for when we were doing done for you credit repair. Um, which in like November we actually cut partially due. We were doing $100k months, but the profit was not anywhere close to that. This is a maybe a lesson for people that maybe don't want to make the same mistake we did. Got ourselves into a pretty bad perpetuity deal with a marketer that crushed our margins to the point where it was almost unsustainable to even run. So, we actually cut that business model off completely. Um, so at the time that funnel was I didn't have to make any posts on social media. I was getting like 50 to 75 or 100 booked calls per month for my sales team. That was easy. But obviously once we cut that now that funnel had to make money off the ads that we were running. So the ads to the ebook they they were doing that before school was in their mindset. We weren't working together like none of this was a thing which was like a few months ago. Then this all started obviously it's been validated by like getting to this point and it's like we just have to zoom out a little bit and still structure or like move move the pieces around so that it all makes sense. But it's just one step at a time in in the sense that like this community was launched a month ago. Um, so I think there's a lot more we could do with the organic. Also just switch out the funnels. Like definitely I think changing or shutting off the ads to the ebook is is a good idea for sure, but there's a lot more we could do with organic in terms of the low ticket community as well. Yeah. Sweet. Did anyone have other questions? [Music] Is anyone using um school DMs to close to the paid community or to book calls in general? I am I use an auto DM that goes out to people. It's just like hi Alex question mark or hi John question mark and they'll be like hello. They'll react oddly and then it's from free community. Dude, name question mark murders as a text. Just throwing that out from my gym days. Yeah, it's wild. Yeah. Like you ever have to call leads up, just say their name like John. And they're like, "Yeah." They're like, "Yeah." And they stay quiet and they're like, "Yeah." Like, "It's Alex." And they're like, and then you like they're like piecing this whole thing together, but you have them. If you say, "Hi, this is John calling for like they're already they already hate you. Say, "Hey, John, pause. This is Alex. Pause." was. And then right before they're about to talk, it's like, "Yeah, I reached out cuz you just opted in for that thing on that place." I was like, "I was just making sure that you're not a crazy person from the internet." Haha. Okay. Yeah, I'm not either. Just making sure we're both, you know, normal human beings. Anyways, uh you said you wanted that thing and so I wanted to figure out a time that worked well for you. Did you just make a short about that? Yeah. Yeah, I did it for years. That script works. It's crazy. I split tested just calling you back. This is something I've tried recently in the last like probably six months or so. Like, hey, hi Alex. Shut up. Yeah, it's Julian. They're like, what? Just calling you back. You reach out to and then the same exact thing you just said pretty much. And like, dude, they're so receptive to it. Especially if you send them the DM because especially DM and phone call. That's that's crazy. If you if you sell B2B, really nasty. Um, just uh what's what's one of your biggest competitors? Just name or like Yeah. Just someone who's in your space, whatever. I would say from like the online course is like section of my business is maybe like Amy Porterfield. Yeah. Hey Jamie, this is Alex. Just calling about Amy Porterfield. Just give me a call back. Like Yeah, this is Yeah, just call in regards to Amy Porterfield. You're so curious. You'll call me back. So, you teach people how to make courses then basically? It's a portion of of the scalability process. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. How it works for B2B. Take two seconds, figure out who's like in their industry and just use the name. You also piggyback on that brand. You say that if you're leaving a message. Sorry. Sorry. You just say that if you're leaving a message. Yeah. Voicemail. You can call back and like, "Hey, yeah, what about Amy for" like, yeah, she's doing something that you're not doing and she's killing us. So, you'd research their competitors. Wow. That's pretty savage. Savage. Came to play. Came to play. Love that. Works. I mean, it works local, too. Call a gym up. You're like, "Hey, gym down the like down the street." I used to sell gym memberships to like uh like I would go B2B outside of the B2C people coming in. I'd go to the business and I'd do like the pissed-off customer to manager. I'd look at the name tag. Hey, Alex. Be like, "Yeah, I need to talk to the manager right now." And then the manager would come out and they'd think, "Oh, this dude's pissed. He's crazy." And then I'd be like, hey, I noticed that everybody here looks like they're super into like health and fitness. You're in great shape. Where do you work out at? And then I close the whole team right there on the manager bringing pre-trials in. It's hilarious. Roasted. Yeah. Sweet. Uh I had a quick question about um what you find the differences between your staff working remotely or in the office. I know you mentioned you drill a you drill the wall just drill a hole just so they could work here. Why is it so important that they work? Ishman's great. What is it's been great. I mean I was remote. I was remote before remote was cool. So I was remote as of 2016. So way before COVID and then this was the first in-person business I've had since my gyms and it's been awesome. What makes it better? You can train so much faster. I think if you can do it, it's better. It's there's sometimes where you can't do it cuz you could the talent that you can actually convince to get into a building is not as good as the talent you could get elsewhere. And so it's not a simple answer. Yeah. Yeah. It depends on the strength of the brand too. Like people will move like if you have a strong personal brand people will move. So, we haven't we haven't made it required for the people that were hired prior to us having the building to be here, but almost all of them have moved because it's just dope. And they just know that like the clo it's just proximity like the closer they are to me the more they'll learn, the more they'll move up in the company, all that kind of stuff. How many plays you have? Holdco or in general? Acquisition. Holdco 50. But then I think you mentioned like a thousand earlier that was like across the portfolio. Yeah. So we recruit because we recruit for portfolio companies. So we recruit leadership um for all port all portfolio companies that position outcome does the hiring for these companies. Wow. If I control the people I can make sure the business grows and I can use my brand to bring. So think about it this way. I can make a business sellable because it's not associated with me publicly because then I become key man risk to the business. And so I can still use my brand to bring really high quality talent in to a business that I'm not publicly associated with. And so that way I get the benefit of both. It's like I can make the business super sellable, but I can bring all the best talent in. And let's say you hire somebody for XYZ company. Sure. Where are you training them? The company's responsible for training them. Yeah. Teach XYZ how to train. Well, I mean some of the companies we have are pretty big. So like they have teams and they know what they're doing. But it's just the it's just basically director level and up we hire for. So managers, individual contributors, unless it's like something really niche, um, we we bring on. Also, it's good because then we have multiple lines into the business because like if you're an investor and you own a big chunk of a company, like the people that you talk to on a regular basis, you only talk to one or two people in the leadership team, maybe three, whatever, but then my team talks to their team. And so, like my head of CS will help train to your point, their CS director or whatever. And so I guess in that sense, yeah, I guess we do because we we regularly interact with each each functional head has somebody at Holdco that they can interact with to upskill on whatever it is and just kind of understand our way of doing it.

Besides financial performance, how do you evaluate companies that you consider acquiring or gaining equity stake in? A lot about the founder. Okay. So quote like traits about the founder or Yeah. I mean, sometimes um some people aren't that hungry. Uh so they they go, you know, they start making a few hundred,000, $500,000 a month take home and then they just like [ __ ] off. And I hate that. And so that it's like I'm not in it for that. I want big big big stuff. And so I want somebody who I know has like a massive hole in their heart that they just cannot fill. That's what I want. Like crippling anxiety around failure. Like that's what I'm looking for. Um that's from the from the from the founder side the the business model side I like really high I like to have multiple ways to acquire customers you know has it is just like it's the hair the company has hair that we're very good at taking off. So if someone had like a ton of technical debt I'd be like that's not my hat. if someone's like needs to have a better brand or better sales process or better marketing or pricing or see honestly anything that's just a traditional

Business, um, because we, we work with, like, right now, I think 40% of my portfolio is software, and then the other 60% is, uh, services. So that's kind of our split. I don't talk about software as much, but it's a bigger chunk of my portfolio.

>> Percentage is online versus brick and mortar?

>> Um, think of the services up.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, 20% I think is brick and mortar, and then if you consider a software online, and if you consider, like, insurance, which is national online, then yeah, have like a physical and deliver services.

I love that, though. I would dig more if I could. There's just not a ton of really good chains.

>> What's your favorite type of brick and mortar?

>> Type? I mean, I just, I love pseudo-medical services. Like, fake medical.

>> Yeah, like med spas would fall in that category. Um, hair removal, laser. Um, I love that stuff.

>> Plans?

>> Yeah, I mean, high, high ticket dental. Like, I love all of that. Yeah. Just because, like, you get, because none of them know how to sell, and so, like, we just go in and just murder it. Like, we just get like—

>> High ticket. Yeah.

>> Yeah. They, like, they're just like, "We're like, how do you get customers?" They're like, "People just walk in the door." And I'm like, "Great. How'd you pick that price?" They're like, "I don't know. We looked at the average and just picked a number." I was like, "Okay, cool. Well, um, if we put a sales process in place and not do pick pricing that way, we'll probably make more money." Like, we took, we took one of our, one of our chains at the XLTV in the first month, and I was like, "All right, do that across all the locations and I'll call you later." That was it.

Uh, we have no franchises. So I bought a franchise recently, and then I bought all the franchisee locations out. So it was 50/50 franchises. We had 30-something locations, and so I bought the, all the franchises out, made them all corporate.

>> Yeah. So it's, I mean, I could talk about this stuff, but like, it has nothing to do with school. Um—

>> Yeah. Do you need this information?

>> You don't need the talking cibility. So—

>> As far as, far as the, because we've been talking about webinars, I'm curious. Have you ever seen webinars replace a sales team?

No. Um, but I do like using them for, so basically, so a lot of times you can optimize sales process. It's because we're everybody here. So if you just hop on the phone, like with these onboarding calls we're talking about, right? And you do a hundred calls, you'll, over time, you'll quickly develop, like, basically a mini-presentation that you give on every call, and you're like, "And these are the three things, and this is how it's developed," blah, blah, blah. Everyone's like, "Yeah, that's awesome. Whatever." Our salesman repeats on every call is what I like to take and put into the VSL. And so over time, you can cut those sales calls down from like an hour to like 15 or 20 minutes. If you take the presentation, make it visual, give more FAQs, more data, more stories, whatever. And so then when they hop on the call, you can basically start at the close and then just work, work. Just like you can get on the phone and be like, "So you saw the video, you ready to rock and roll?" And then they're like, "Well, I have a few questions." It's like, "Cool, then let's, let's handle them." And then, then the sale is really about objection overcomes and clarifying specifics rather than explaining how everything works.

>> So then you mentioned the price in the VSL?

Depends. We split-test it. Sometimes we have it in, sometimes we don't. Um, and like the in-between there is just a range. So you can be like, "It's, it's a four-figure deposit to get started. If that scares you away, then don't do it." And that works pretty well. That doesn't kill conversions too much. If you put the price, you'll get the highest qualified leads for sure. So it really just depends on how much traffic you have. And so I see that stuff as like, I mean, I fundamentally just think marketing is just finding the sweet spot on friction. Because like, you could, at the most hypothetical extreme, just advertise your phone number and just tell people to call you. That's the zero friction funnel, right? And then the, like, the most, version of that is like, click, opt-in, watch a VSL, fill out a big application, schedule a call. Okay, that's lots of friction. And so it's like, all right, well, that's the most friction version. And so it really just depends on how much traffic you have and how much, how much information someone needs to buy. So I've gotten away from, like, people like, "This is the marketing mythology." There's tons in, in, in marketing, but like, you have, um, they're like, "emotional buyers and logical buyers." I'm like, "What does that mean?" We just like want to have a binary box, but I think they're just a continuum of information that someone needs in order to buy. And some people need more, and some people need less. And why do warm prospects convert faster? Is because they already have the majority of the information because they've been consuming your stuff for a long time. And someone who's brand new, you basically have to take them through what it be to become a warm candidate. You approximate that. Like, the reason challenges work well for, for smaller businesses is because it approximates a brand. So you basically, like, microwave the lead. So they're really cold, you put them in a microwave, which is the challenge for five days. You blast them with a bunch of content, and it's like, "Oh, I feel like I've known this guy forever." But it's really just been five days. You just stuff them full of your content, and then you make your pitch.

>> Would you change anything about closer, the framework for the closer framework? I used it very well.

No, it's simple. It's meant to be simple. It, I mean, it's worked across a gazillion industries. Like, is does every script follow that to the tea? No. But if someone's going to start brand new, if they use that, they'll make sales. And so that's why, like, I tr, like, I have a big belief that a lot of people try to go for, like, perfection on stuff, but usually that's not the constraint of the business. And so it's figuring out what the constraint is and then just solving it. And so, like, I'm not the best copywriter in the world. I'm not the best at ads. I'm not the best at content. I'm not the best at really anything, but I'm good enough that that's no longer the constraint of the business. Like, I'm good enough at writing copy. I'm good enough at making ads that I can just move to whatever the next, the next bottleneck is. And I think people spend way too long doing the thing that they like, really jive on, and they ask all these questions about that. They are in the forums about it. I tell the story, there's this guy who came for a workshop a few months ago, and like, not everyone gets a time to get a question answered. And his, like, question was, "Can you go over the closer framework?" And I was like, "What's your close rate?" He was like, "40%." And I was like, "You got, like, you, you put this in your calendar. You spent money to be here. You flew here, got a hotel, and the one chance that you had to ask a question was about something that has, that is not a problem in your business at all." And so, and the reality is, he just likes sales stuff. And so, he just wanted me here talk about sales stuff. I was like, "But that's not the problem in your business." It's like, "Your difficulty is that you don't know how to hire people and you can't scale." I was like, "Can you, like, like, is that the constraint? Like, do you think you're going to go from 40 to 60? It's going to make a big difference in your business. You need to double your lead flow. So, you're going to double your lead flow. All right. Then, why didn't you ask about that?"

>> Yeah. I found that people seek distraction.

>> Yeah.

>> To avoid the problem.

>> Yeah.

>> Because the problem is painful. That's why it's a problem.

>> Yeah.

>> So, like, all of that shiny object [ __ ] it's generally because someone doesn't want to deal with the problem.

>> Yeah. It feels—

>> Yeah. It feels like productive procrastination because you're like, "It's about business," but it's like, "But that's not the thing. That's not the problem."

And so fundamentally, everybody here should know what the constraint of your business is by leaving today, which might be a very good exercise. So, like, who here knows what the one thing that's limiting their business? Because there is one thing that right now is limiting your business, and if you don't know what it is, then you're not going to improve it.

>> You guys know, and you guys know, hopefully. Why don't you just say it, and then we can, we can go around real quick.

>> I'd say the big thing is like the messaging on, like, who we're, who we're talking to. Like, we need to decide between, I, I mean, really the clear answer is, like, our audience base is based around new entrepreneurs. So instead of trying to market to the whole audience, like—

>> Tone the messaging to new entrepreneurs, then tailor when people on board into the community for that.

>> Yeah. It'll convert way better.

>> And 90% of your audience is that anyways. They just didn't know that you were for them.

>> It's great. I've got two key positions in my company that I'm actively filling. Yeah. That are the bottleneck right now.

>> At your size, that's usually it just becomes people.

>> Yeah.

>> Ours is probably lead flow. Just more lead.

>> You guys run ads, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> So, you just need better creative.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We convert a lot. Like, uh, we get in a call like every four guys. We join the community, we get on a call. We have like, we spend like $12 to get somewhere.

This will be fun. I want to break this down with you. Okay. So, this is just useful for everybody here. So, if you're, um, let's say, like, we're doing these constraints, right? So, we break this down to the activities. So, even if it was the people thing, it's like, "Okay, I need these two roles." Okay, so what does that mean? It means that I'm not doing enough cold outreach on LinkedIn, uh, for qualified candidates in order to get people on the phone. So it's like, how many outreach a day are we doing to people with these three titles, uh, that have relevant experience, which is setting up this many, uh, interviews, and then from there, how, you know, what percentage of the interviews are we, you know, getting fast for a second interview? Okay, great. It's like, that becomes the funnel, but the input is still the number of outreach attempts to qualified candidates. And then for you guys, like, "Okay, I need to paid ads is my, if you're like, paid ads is my, my bottleneck, it's like, what do I do with that?" It's like, really, it's how many pieces of creative are you making, and then what's, what's the creative process that you have in order to make the ads? That's, that's what it breaks down into. And so it's like, "Okay, what we need to do is every time we record ads, we look at all top performers across all niches. We find the hooks from those ads. We then make a list of 50 hooks that we think will work. We run all 50 of those. We have three to five of our meets, and we're going to do that every week." So now your paid ads problem is like, "Did I do the research? Get the hooks? Record once a week to make 50 ads?"

>> That, that, by the way, that works. Just do that. If you're doing ads, just do that. Hooks, 50 hooks, three to five meet, call to action. When I like—

>> 13 years I've been running paid ads. Same process.

>> Yeah, it works. Processing—

>> Oh, sorry. You guys were talking. [Laughter] Test 50 hooks and then—

>> He's got it. He's got—

>> Yeah, I'm like in—

>> March or something. Lift the March recording or February recordings.

>> Test 50 hooks.

So every week, you look at the top-performing hooks across all industries. You write those hooks down. Then when you record your ads, you use those hooks, and then you have the three to five things that are discussing your offer or whatever. And then you make your CTA. That's how you make good ad. And that you're scraping those CTAs with—

>> Scraping payment, mean?

>> Yeah. Like, how are you identifying what are the top—

>> Well, the CTA is the easiest and least important part. I mean, you have to have one, but in terms of like, things that'll make a huge difference.

>> Hook, hook.

>> He meant to say—

>> Okay, got it. Got it. Got it. Well, the hooks just like, you can look at Facebook Ad Library for all people in your space. You can look at the organic content that's trending well in your space, and then use those hooks. All that stuff works. Like, that's the research that our team does beforehand.

>> What's yours?

>> Yeah, for me, the centralized team. Just build that. That's it.

>> He has to build a centralized team for his agency. For 4X, the females of 4X.

>> They're kind of like, "What is it?" We're trying to figure it out.

>> It's good. Let's do it. Why can't you TEDx your business?

Well, I think there's room. We've already identified room for improvement as far as paid ads is something we can step into. Um, a high-ticket sales offer that our, our members are already asking for. Um—

>> We also the manpower.

>> Yeah. The infrastructure on—

>> Team that we structure.

>> Yeah.

>> If you only did one of those by the end of the year and you crushed it, which one would it be?

Well—

>> Think how high ticket's going to be out big.

Okay. And that's where I put all my attention. Like, if we only did this one thing—

>> If you suggested one of those things, what would you suggest?

Is are you all organic right now?

>> Yeah.

The high ticket one is low risk and high likelihood of working, but it'll cap again. Like, you'll get a bump, and then it'll stay there. And then you will have to run ads. Like, ads will be the next thing. But I do think it makes sense to do the high ticket increase LTV and then run the ads on the front.

>> Setters—

We're discussing the bottleneck.

We're going around the room and discussing the bottleneck that's stopping you from scaling.

>> Are you looking at me? Oh.

Um, yeah. I think I think having like the backend sales and CRM, and I just hate to do it.

>> Right. And it's like, I mean, I could do it. I can do it on a basic level, but if I had somebody that just, like, owned that, I could definitely see that being—

>> Do you think it's a people thing?

I mean, if I'm not going to do it, I would think I would have to solve it with somebody that could do it. If you're not going to do it, and someone—

>> And I don't really, and I don't really know that I have the time to do it well.

Because if I do, if I put a bunch of time into my YouTube video, that just generates money. Um, and so, so that's, that's, I mean, that's what I'm thinking. That's the bottleneck.

My recommendation, because I've, I've failed at this more times than I like to admit. Um, if you are going to bring someone in for like, it, to like, actually install CRM and all that stuff, you have to be involved in the implementation.

I don't even know if it's like, I mean, I have a CRM.

It's just not being used. Like, nobody's going through it and going through each person. And I mean, it could just be very basic. I don't know that I'd have to like switch software, do any of that stuff.

>> So, you just need someone to like, make sure it's up to date.

Yeah. And then reach out to people, follow up.

>> Is it the setting thing?

Okay.

>> And like, it would be cool if they did the onboarding, like they could do something like that.

Okay. So, we need to hire somebody to work for leads.

Hey, I think we should change the advice for Forex Skills.

Okay. Cuz just look at this.

Everybody, you have great conversion and great churn.

>> Traffic.

>> Yeah.

>> [ __ ] loads of it. That's all you need. You've like got the best churn and conversion. You're obviously doing something really right.

Yeah. Cuz you basically at 7.7, which is where you guys are at right now, it's like—

>> That'll be below five soon cuz the changes we improve. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, just do five for simple math. So, that's 20x your monthly is what your LTV is. And so, like, what does it cost? What's the price point?

$35 off.

35. So, 700 LTV is what it, what it will, as soon as we put these little changes in. Even, even at today's, it's 13 times that. So, 13 times 35. So, 300.

>> An annual will help with the cash.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Affiliates will probably crush well because this offer has a high stick rate and a high conversion rate. So if you just do the annual, the affiliates, and if you figure out how to drive more traffic, which could be more organic and some ads, I would max this out.

>> Yeah, because you have LTV. Yeah. So I'm sorry, I operate on not knowing your metrics. No, this is great.

>> These numbers are really good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So if your, if your cost to acquire a customer is like a hundred bucks, then you're like, "Okay, cool. Now, obviously there's a cash burn there." Um, but we'll see. I mean, it dep, when you have that kind of conversion rates, like, it could be, it could be lower. Yeah, it might be like 40 or 50, and you're like, "Well, [ __ ] If I can spend 40 and make 700, I should do a lot of that."

This is the most common thing we've seen, right, Pete? Entrepreneurs, they swear that they need to change.

>> Yeah. Do more.

>> But they just need to do more. Like, you're doing something really right. You guys are doing something really light. It's really right. It's a subtle change and way more energy into distributing it. That's what needs to happen.

>> What was the, uh, equation that you just did? You like, was it like price over turn times 20?

No, it was just price over overturn.

>> Where did it, because it's 5%?

That's—

>> If they're turning 5% a month, that's 20 months that the customer will stay.

>> Yeah.

>> By 20th the—

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So we currently do this system where what you put up. Oh, sorry. I know this is, you can finish that if you need to. I just wanted to clarify something about our thing after—

>> You know, on the board, we do the exact system that was up on the board. You know, content, eyeballs, free, paid offer, right? Um, so to sca, like, you're saying scale that out. Is it just grow a bigger audience, or is it more in our free? Like, what is—

I think you're saying run ads. So, like, you keep, keep doing the organic stuff you're doing, but then also run ads.

>> Okay.

Into the free to then go—

>> Yeah. Like the same business model you have, just more into it.

Or were you wanting us to do the bottom where it was ads to school?

How are you currently pushing people?

Just so do it this.

Okay.

For the current exact way you're doing it. Do that.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Actually, we talked in the in the break, and I just said you guys can easily like two, three X your business with right now. You are running, uh, on each Monday, you have this like—

>> Monday Zoom.

>> Yeah. Then like 200, 300 people, as you said, live. And I just said, like, "Have 1,000 people there." That's it. And you can do that easily with ads. Just put more people in the group. So there will be 500, 1,000 people, 1,500 each Monday. And then your numbers, because of the, this convergence, your numbers will blow up. Okay.

>> It's that easy. I, I guess from our—

And I guess, so the biggest thing as well is obviously, yes, 100%. We're doing that. That's already a given. But like, for the high ticket thing, people are buying from other people.

>> What we can bring in. Is that like a park it? It's still good. Bring it in.

You can always do, to Sam's point, you said earlier, like, high ticket is like a lever that you can, like, pull one time and it boosts LTV, and then it, it stays there. Like, you can do it whenever you want, but you can instantly 5X the business by running it.

>> And an extra product is a lot of extra effort.

>> Right? Cuz now you're managing two funnels, two products, two support systems. It's like, it's a lot more. It's way easier just to like 4X this. And then by the time you get to the high ticket opportunity, you have four times the leads. So you'll make four times as much money. Twice—

>> Instead, if you just do high ticket now, you might double, right?

>> So start with the small things, run the ads, build the community even bigger, then offer high ticket.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Just to give you context, if I would be in the business, like, for me, this ad thing, this would be like three hours maybe, because just, you know, do the ads and then weekly do new creatives. That's it. Weekly, one hour maybe. If I would have to do the high ticket stuff, you would have to just create the whole product and do everything for it, which is, I don't know, like 50 or 100 hours as a project, and then the whole management and everything is just like, I think is usually just huge energy and—

>> Yeah, it's, it's, it's a different business actually.

I always just try to max one, max this thing first.

Cuz if there's room left in it, don't do something else. Just squeeze every last drop out of it until you have no option. Then at least you know you had no choice. So it's hard to make a mistake when that's the situation. Yeah.

Great advice. Thank you. One, one question I had on the, um, on the setters thing though, the, the other option is that I just do more and better content, and I just let the, the sales and the setting thing just kind of continue to to linger because I probably could get more business just by making better content across more platforms. And I'm, that's what my business is all about anyway, is making content, making content systems, scaling content. So, if I did that, I enjoy it more. Um, and it would make the product better at the same time.

Sounds like you want to do that.

>> Yeah, you've answered your own question.

It is, but I just wonder like, is it silly to just leave that sales thing?

Well, if something would make you money—

I mean, if you have a strong preference towards one, I wouldn't, I wouldn't stop you. I tend to just like build business, like build ops, and then like infrastructure and [ __ ]. I like, I tend to be skewed in that direction cuz that's just like what I've done my whole life. So like when I was 23, I had 30-something employees. Like, I've had teams for a long time. Um, so I just don't mind it. But yeah, I mean, that's thing with with with media is it's infinite leverage. In theory, everybody here could just become Mr. Beast and then, yeah, that would probably solve everybody's problem kind of. So yeah, you could make the videos better and make more of them. If that feels more in the wheelhouse and lower likelihood of not working, then yeah, I would do that.

Kirby, what's your—

Skip me? Yeah.

All right, go for it. Uh, people—

More convers— Well, in the very beginning of my business, it, it grew really big, but I was very much like he was saying, Sam was saying before, I was in the DMs all day long. I was having voice note after voice note after voice note. And then as it grew, my time started getting allocated elsewhere, and then trying to get the systems in place to kind of allow for continued conversation in all aspects.

So, just further confirmed what needs to about credit bros. I—

I think our biggest constraint up until this point is has just been ourselves. Uh, we marketed for this community for a total of maybe a week, yet we've been under the impression that, um, everybody for number one, knows about it, and number two, is just going to be waiting for the next launch. So, I think there's more ways that we can still open up to sales in this period that we're in, and then also just focusing on maxing out the organic traffic. I really, I'm very confident that I can get this to, uh, six figures a month very quickly, considerably, with small changes, as long as we just don't get distracted by like wanting to do other things like high ticket or ads or anything of that nature right now.

>> Do you have their metrics?

>> Yeah, they're amazing.

>> What were the 10? What was it? What was, what were your—

>> Churn, churn was like 10%.

>> What's price?

>> 47. What's the—

>> 47? So you have—

>> You, it's a weird conversion rate though, because you've got something in front of it, right?

>> What do you mean?

>> Like, you're selling them something else first, and—

>> The conversion rate for them was like—

>> Organic.

>> Let me just look it up.

>> It's all organic.

>> The Credit Bros. Is that what it's called?

>> Brothers.

>> The Credit Club.

>> Okay. All right. But—

>> Yeah, I think that's what's been our biggest constraint. Like, simply just opening it up again, and then, um, obviously doing the launch in September could easily 2X where we're at right now. And then once that's maxed out, and the organic audience gets a little bit more exhausted, we can consider running paid ads as well, of course. But, um, I definitely see this above, above the six-figure mark, just by focusing on the organic fairly quickly as well.

>> 500 bucks a pop's not bad if you think about like that.

>> Yeah, I think, uh, one of the, uh, one of the interesting challenges, uh, for us is because we have services for a completely different avatar. We have, we also have services where we do business funding for small business owners. Completely different avatar. And so we've been in this fluctuation where our leads for that service has been in the dumpster because we go, "That's a different avatar." And if we promote that on our organic, then we're taking people away from this other thing. And so we're going, like, "Well, we can't, if we're going to do a launch for this community, zero posting about this other offer." That other offer has, it's ended up resulting in—

>> Low. So it's like, do we go scrap that offer? Do we—

>> If, if you zoom out, it's just a little bit of a messy situation because before we, like, partnered up and started doing things with the community, they had other offers that they were making money from. Just had nothing to do with school, and nothing to do with low ticket, nothing to do with recurring. So obviously, like, we got together, did this cool thing, school and community is great. School games now we're here. Um, but they didn't do any, like, there's still all those other things that were a part of their ecosystem of their business before. So, it's just like a little bit of a messy situation now, if that makes sense.

>> So, I just start trying to take them away without breaking anything. Less parts is better, always.

So, if you just had none of these other parts and you just had organic traffic dialed, paid traffic dialed, about page dialed, this offer dialed, and then you can always sell some high ticket stuff on the back. But that whole machine would run.

>> You know, that's what I would want to do.

>> Yeah. But, uh, that's like, they, they have business outside of, you know, what we're doing with school. So it's really just like an overarching decision that would need to be made.

It's an entrepreneur decision strategy thing. I mean, fundamentally, I allocate all my attention to the highest LTV to CAC ratio discrepancy.

>> Yeah. So what did you write there?

So you got your churn is not 10. It's two.

>> What?

Oh, no, sorry. Their conversion rate on their about page is 2%. Their churn is 10%.

Got it. Got it. District—

>> The average, Sam, conversion rate for an about page, like what?

>> For a paid group, it's two.

>> Yeah. So you guys are average conversion on on—

>> But your churn is way better than normal.

And that's only going to get better, by the way, cuz these changes we made haven't even had a full month to like show up in the data. So I bet you your churn rate soon will be seven, six percent, which is insanely low.

So if you're at seven, then just multiply that by 13. What would you advise on the entrepreneurial decision side of things? Like—

Bogus. I think Sam and I always agree on that.

>> Yeah, this is a numbers thing. I'd do a spreadsheet and I'd be like, "How much money do we need to make?" And like, look at how much money each product is making, and just put all the numbers out and be like, "What would happen if we cut that?" And that, would we be able to more than, would we be able to at least make that back if we were just focused on one thing?" And I've found most of the time that answer is always yes. And I made more than I thought. Like, it took me, it's a lot of my mistakes in business have been when I thought I couldn't get rid of something. I thought I needed it, so I just kept doing it. But a lot of the time, if I just cut those things and then reallocated that time and focus into one thing, I could more than make up for what I lost by letting it go. So, how much money would you guys have to make monthly from just the Credit Club to equal—

What you guys are making with all the other [ __ ] going on?

>> Profit. Profit. It would have to be 50,000.

That's it, then. Yeah, that's like, it's a, it's a very clear decision.

Well, I mean, it's a bit more involved than this. Yeah. Like—

This is about a day's work.

You know, working through all of the little nuances and details, cuz you don't want to [ __ ] it up.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. There's—

Well, what could you [ __ ] up?

>> Uh, a lot.

We, we would basically blow up all the other offers that we have, scrap it, and then just focus on this, which it's a way to go about it. It's a way to go about it in the aspect of like, if there's that onboarding call, by understanding—

If you can afford it. I, a good way to do it is if you can afford it. Like, if you could miss by a couple of months.

>> Yeah. No, we, yeah, we absolutely can.

>> Then just YOLO it.

That's, no, I'm serious. Cuz that's the best way to do it. Just go [ __ ] it. I'm just going to try and be so nervous about it. Just commit and do it and see if you can make it work. I honestly don't, like, I might sound like an idiot, but I don't see what could go wrong.

Always a lot. Ken—

Listen.

I can get it to that point without them even getting rid of the other things. Like, it's not, it's there. If it's just the money thing.

My instinct is it will probably work if you YOLO it and go all in because your audience notices when you do something like that. They're like, "Holy [ __ ], they're only doing one thing and they're talking about it all the time."

>> Yeah. Whereas right now, it's diffused everywhere, right? They don't even know about this damn thing. They see all of this other random [ __ ]. They're so confused.

They want, they should be like—

It should be on their mind all the time. You're telling them about the thing so much.

And that's something that we've never had in the business is just a unified thing that we're doing. And it's only blow your business up.

You got a million followers. [ __ ]. You can probably make way more than 50 grand more. Yeah. Yeah.

Also, just because your LTV's, I mean, a $500 LTV with a super wide market is pretty strong.

Okay.

And these stats are amazing. So, it's not like this is a, "We think this might work." This is working. It just needs more energy pumped into it.

Yeah. Literally just look at all the clicks you. So, like, you can do this. This is why, like, you do it with some math. Is you just take all the clicks that are going to everything else and put it through what the conversion rate is there and multiply by how many sales that you would get. And then do you know how to do hypothetical max?

I'm trying to write down what you just—

So, basically, you're taking all the clicks that are scattered everywhere, you add them up, and then you say, "Okay, if that were to convert at 2% with this LTV, would I make more money?" So, I'll run through an example. Let's say, just for simplicity's sake, that you've got 10 clicks. [ __ ] we need bigger numbers. So, 10,000 clicks going to that, right? So, if you convert 2%, that means you get 20 sales times 470, which is what the, what the run rate will be as it grows. All right. So, hypothetical max is sales velocity times LTV. So, if you want to see how big a company is going to get that's recurring, you say, "How many sales do you make in a month?" And they say 100. You say, "What's LTV?" They say 100. And you say, "Cool. $10,000 a month is as big as this is going to grow." Now, if they're doing $5,000 a month, then I know that the business is going to, over time, double. If they're doing $20,000 a month, then I know that over time it's going to shrink. And so you can see where you're going to even out just by looking at how many do I sell? What's the ultimate LTV per customer? Assuming LTV stays the same over time. Okay. So, if we say this is what you're currently doing, you have 1,000 clicks. Let's say you have 10,000 clicks that are going to all your other pages. You then say, "All right, well, if I were to run that through here, right?" So, if we just finish this math equation, it'd be whatever, I don't know what that is, around 10K, right? If we run this through, then we'd have another 100K per month just using the simple method. You just run 10,000 through 2% and you run it through. And if it's more, great. If it's even, you'll probably make more just from the focus and messaging. If you make less, then that's when it becomes a little bit more complicated.

>> This makes sense.

Cool. So it's like, we're responsible for this much traffic. We're sending this much here. If we took all that traffic, how much, how efficiently would we monetize those eyeballs? And then only after, say, running that, squeezing as much juice out of that lemon, that's when adding in these additional offers, extensions might become a a strategy. Well, I'd imagine on the onboarding call going through what they're doing and going like, "Oh, you're like, if they're a business owner, they're trying to do more because the community itself, which there was another winner of the school games that you're probably familiar with, his name's—

>> Smitty.

>> Smitty. Yeah. Credit—

>> Kenny.

>> So, Kenny. Yeah. So, he's like, I wouldn't say direct competitor, but he's—

>> A direct competitor.

>> He still the same thing. Yeah, his promise is different. It's—

>> But he's black though. You're fine.

>> I'm saying he'll sell to black people. You'll sell to white people. It'll be fine.

Absolutely.

>> There's a demographic of people that—

You want to go crazy though. If you have somebody else who's in your ads that's black, then you also get that audience.

So, um, I wanted, I wanted to hit on something you just said though. Oh, the onboarding thing. So, as soon as annuals out, this is just like big hack for everybody. Instead of upselling into high ticket, you can just upsell the annual on the call. So you send people to your group that's paid, you do the onboarding call, you give them an incentive to just prepay it.

>> Okay.

Clever. Because then you don't have to have a new product. You just sell more of the [ __ ] you already have. And then like, you might be able to get 10 or 15% on the lander, but get 25% to ascend on the call. So you're getting 40% of people to pay for a year up front, which is higher than your LTV here because 12 times 47 is more than 10 times 47. They have a $600 LTV, and you're getting 40% of people to pay that in the first seven days. Now you're getting 240 in cash upfront.

>> Are you discounting the pay in full for the year?

We could, or we could just leave it at that and then still, you just get 470 if you want to get, buy 10, get two, whatever.

Got it. I'll predict that will be a thing. Like, that's the simplest way to make more money. Like, add no new products. Just hop on the phone and tell them to buy more.

>> Work wealthy forex.

You're like, that would be a relevant, relevant. Okay, cool. So, you guys know what you need to do the math and then make a decision.

Big ass mission. I know. We'll, we'll get, we'll get around to it.

Um, I think our biggest constraint, I mean, honestly, like our LTV to CAC is pretty solid right now. I think we just need to spend more on ads, and then his calendar is pretty booked. I think actually recruiting the people will make the LTV bigger, and then we'll just have to hire another salesperson.

So, advertise more. I think so. Yeah.

He's learned by now after we've gone through a few of these. Yeah.

Because we're only spending like 12k a month on houses. We can definitely—

Um, our cost to acquire customer is like 722 right now.

And then we're selling it for 3K. Um, so—

You're better at math than me, but yeah.

We don't have all the back end affiliate account.

Yeah, we don't.

Yeah, exactly.

But that's like all front up front.

And then you still have backend with the brokerage stuff.

And affiliates. Yeah, if you get four to one up front, yeah, spend more money.

>> Yeah.

Easy.

Essentially, A to Z sales inside of the classroom for the people, and then track all that for more proof for ads.

Make better ads.

For you.

>> Yeah.

Not for them.

Well, for them too, I guess, for the sales training, so that they will stay even longer, get even better results than they already are.

>> As well, too.

>> Yeah. Better ads is a huge, a huge lever on anybody who does like two, two levels. Like, if you have customers, this is for you. Um, like, that's, I spent 50 grand a month because I knew that they would, none of them could, and so I could produce higher quality ads than any of my individual gyms could. And so it's like, [ __ ] I'd have like, the cost to replace me was so expensive, and I could fractionalize that across zillions of people, and that was like a huge arbitrage.

Mhm. And then our business grows too, as well, with the floor coatings at the same time. Yeah.

Yeah.

I think we have to end.

Oh, we have to end. Okay.

Because if we want to get photos and do every, what? You guys probably want photos, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I have a, um, a quick ask. You guys have, uh, papers and markers in front of you if you're good with it. If you don't want, you can just move out. We also, it'd be easier if, like, plus ones and stuff just kind of move to the side. Otherwise, there's like a [ __ ] army in in the ad. Um, so if you, if you can just have one person per business holding—