Transcription
Pastor Jack, anybody that knows me closely knows your name because I walk around talking about my friend Pastor Jack all the time about what I hear on real life TV and the little Zoom meetings that we have and what you've taught me. And so I look forward to sharing you with my audience because I think they're just going to be um inspired. And so I'm really glad you're here.
Marissa, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited about it. I want to start our conversation with an epiphany that I had this morning and that is anybody that is watching this should remember that they don't know what tomorrow is going to look like. And I thought about this because I regret not taking enough pictures of Charlie Kirk and Dennis together. We were putting together a little montage for for Charlie's memory and uh they spent such significant moments together. I will never forget the day that Charlie came to visit Dennis Prager. Julie Hartman, who's uh a close friend of ours, was at the hospital as well, and Julie was holding Dennis's hand. And Charlie was holding Dennis's hand and in his other hand, Charlie was holding one of Dennis's books. I think it was the book of Leviticus. And he was I just had this I have this picture in my mind and I really wish I took that picture. I have this picture in in my mind of Charlie saying to Dennis, "You are a moral giant of our time. Please finish your last book. I need to read it." And then he started talking to to Dennis about wanting to write a book about the Sabbath, which >> we can talk about later. Um but I regret not capturing more more images. And I think the reason we didn't take those pictures was because there's this assumption that things there's always going to be tomorrow, right? And that Dennis would look better tomorrow and so tomorrow we would take that picture or that >> Dennis Charlie and I would be in the same room all dressed up tomorrow and so then we'll take that picture. So I just I just want to start by saying we don't know. We don't know. Um, but we do know what matters to us. And so, anybody that's listening now, do today what matters to you.
Yeah, exactly right. You're making me um hold back some emotions. Um, I spoke with Charlie uh the day before he was shot. And to be honest with you, um, somebody had asked a favor from me to get to Charlie. In other words, they really wanted a favor from Charlie, but they were using me to get to Charlie. And I said, "Charlie, I'm just I'm getting a hold of you right now. I know you've got the Utah gathering tomorrow and somebody wants to be there and you're so busy and but I'm following through on this request. And I gave the request to Charlie and I was expecting him to say, "Um, yeah, no, we can't do that. It's just too short." And he said, "Give me the guy's number. I'll take care of it." And he went beyond beyond. I was shocked, of course, and I shouldn't have been because it's Charlie, but how long did that conversation take place? Look, we're all busy. Took place probably 3 minutes. And then about um two weeks earlier uh there was a large event that Charlie uh and TPUSA was holding here in the Palace Veries Peninsula and I was one of the speakers. In fact, I was Charlie was the final speaker. I was right before Charlie. And we're all, you know, we're all doing what we always do and we're in a we're all in we're always in a hurry. Good, bad, or ugly. We're always in a hurry. And so I walked off stage and he walked on stage and you know we we saw each other passing like the proverbial two trains in the middle of the night. Little did I know that that would be the last time that I'd see him where if you knew like your your point if you knew things would be different but I'm wondering Marissa if we because we cannot know maybe there's the great discipline in that of now taking what we've learned or being reminded of with Charlie and with Dennis that we um make the most of every moment. In other words, we exercise some personal disciplines and hug our kids longer. I know that since Charlie's passing, I have been much more intentional about communicating to my friends that I love them. I've just been saying I' I it's it's been my habit since Charlie. I mean, there's a thousand things that you can say what Charlie Kirk brought out in you.
Yeah, >> that's one of them for me is um I'm very appreciative of the people in my life >> more than ever. >> I wasn't uh around when JFK was shot, but I wonder whether the the way we feel in our country today is is similar. It just feels like a turning point. >> And I think it's also a turning point for for the church. Truly.
Yeah. Well, first of all, I was around when JFK was killed and I remember that day and though I was little, my mom the whole, you know, the the the whole school system, everything shut down that day and all the parents came to pick up kids at school and I remember seeing my mom come. Everybody was crying. I mean, everybody was crying and you know, I was six years old and didn't know what was going on, but I remember it vividly. I remember what my mom was wearing. Having said that, it's kind of like one of those 911 moments. You know exactly where you were on that Tuesday when 911 happened. Well, I think forever so many, especially the young generation who needs to remember this, and I know they will. where were they on September 10th uh in that um on that day when when the news came and uh those are moments where I think God has made us in such a way where they make it's very cathartic and and and it it takes a a stamp and it's put upon your heart that um this is meaningful to me and this is transformative to me. So, when you think about Charlie is so unique, and I know that people might be thinking, "Oh my goodness, you guys are really kind of glorifying him." No, we're not glorifying him. We would never do that. There's only one good, and that's God. That said, I find it awesome that the media is describing his death as an assassination, which it was, but those words are us that word is usually contained in the sphere of politics or maybe taking out a a general in an army where he was assassinated like many try to assassinate George Washington as an example. You don't you don't use that in the Christian or the faith context. You just don't think like that. Why? Because we have a word for the other for that it's called martyr. But Charlie, if you think about it, because of the the depth and the scope of his influence, unique more than any person that I have known where Charlie was assassinated by somebody who did not agree with this what his political views, certainly his cultural beliefs, no doubt, but certainly his religious beliefs, his faith beliefs, because Charlie didn't separate his faith from the secular world. He truly lived like a believer should live and that is he had an an absolute biblical worldview which governed everything about what he did and said be it from his private life with Erica, their prayer time, their Bible reading, how they were raising their babies to Charlie speaking to Trump or to the world. He didn't ever Charlie never took off one hat to put on a different hat. It was the same hat. And I've I've over this series of interviews that took place after his his passing uh this word came out of my mouth and I'm going to use it with you today and it's not a word. It's this. I believe the way Charlie believed and lived his life and conducted himself, if you were to export him out of the 21st century and put him back 250 years ago among our founding fathers, did you know that Charlie would have been the norm? He would have been normal then. our founding fathers, faith, freedom, family, sacrifice, nation, first amendment, second amendment, constitution, they would have given Charlie a high five. They would have they would have thought he's normal. Certainly, his intellect would have felt very at home with them. But you look forward to today and you you see Charlie as so unique. And I think that's that's both a good thing. I think Charlie's life and death is going to start a uh a healthy return back to those those great beginnings. But also this Charlie's uniqueness in my opinion should not have happened because everyone should have been an an American like Charlie and a believer and it's not a contradiction >> to be like he was.
It's amazing that you bring up that Charlie would have been the norm 250 years ago. probably would have signed the Declaration of Independence. I was thinking about Erica when she gave her speech and I I immediately sent her a message, woman of valor.
And I think that many people were surprised around me. Wow, how is it possible that Erica is so strong? How is it possible that she is leaning on her faith? And my first reaction was if Erica Kirk was living 250 years ago, people would not have been surprised that she stood in front of the nation.
>> That was the first reaction I had. Wow. >> It was the first reaction I And you know, I think people are surprised when young people these days are strong because we are used to seeing young people with a God-sized hole in their hearts and so we don't expect them to be strong and courageous and capable, right? And then you have Erica Kirk as an example of somebody who has that gift that the founders of America had. She has the gift of faith in God and it is why she is an anomaly. >> The anomaly is is a new anomaly. Young people used young women used to be strong like Erica Kirk.
Yeah. >> Right. They they had they had that armor of God around them and they felt it and so they were able to do those things that Erica uh young wife and children was a was able to do that weekend. >> Good. >> We have been robbing young people of that. And I think the reason why we are so upset about what has happened to Charlie Kirk, the murder of Charlie Kirk, is because Charlie symbolized what America should be again.
That's right. It's why people who don't know him, we you and I know him and to us probably he'll still remain that 20-year-old brilliant Savant who you know maybe sometimes we almost took for granted where we would just like text him and he would text right back >> always. >> Always >> I have on my phone there's not a text I text Charlie and he did not. >> I don't know how he had enough hours in the day but that's cuz he's probably serving God. But, you know, I I think that's why there's this mass movement of people waking up and including people who are just, you know, completely complacent, right? They, you know, maybe they were on our side, but they didn't want to do anything. You know, it's interesting, Pastor Jack, because >> um since since uh the murder of Charlie Kirk, I think we're seeing a religious revival. Uh but you're also seeing people's characters through through this revival. It's like the movie is opening up and we are seeing so much. We're seeing people's characters. We're seeing how people are reacting. We're seeing how people react to fear.
Our hearts on our are on our are on the table. Um and and it's fascinating, you know, even with the church and and and church followers, you're seeing the people who who who are going back to church. We I I said to the team here at Prageru, we're not going to have a vigil here at the office during office hours. If you really want to honor Charlie, go to church next Sunday. If you haven't exactly what he would have said, >> he would have said exactly that. The question is, is this really going to be a religious revival or is it a temporary panic?
I first of all, I love your question. Um it's almost as though I wrote it myself. This is exactly one of the conversations I had earlier today. Someone was very excited. I'm not going to mention their name. You know him. He was very excited about it's a revival. It's arrival. I said, "Come on. You know enough to wait. You know enough to wait. We have to wait and see because there's there's at at a time like this uh there is that emotional spike." And so what a real revival based old and new testament and history shows us an actual revival that is sent from God. It lasts. it will last long enough to profoundly affect a culture in that generation. It's not my opinion. This is both the history of the Jews and it's the history of the church. There's no getting around it. If it's a revival, it's going to last and it will affect the culture. For example, you talk you talk about the revival in America in the second great awakening and what happened for example in New York City when the second great awakening took place. People without being told stop drinking and stop cheating on your spouse. They stopped without being told. It was it was an in it was it was a supernatural sense where I've got to get right with God. And people even in Manhattan, one of the great stories that Jay, Dr. J. Edwin Ore speaks about regarding the revival and what and its effect upon Manhattan in New York City. A lot of people don't realize that there's something called the uh quartet quartet, the singers. It comes out of that revival where the NYPD, they had no crime to deal with in New York. And what did they do? They stood on the corners and they famously twirled their batons and the and the it would be broken up into four officers at a time. They would sing songs. That's where it came from because why? A revival had happened which meant the church got so beautiful in its holiness that there was an awakening among the lost and that's what we need to see. Is that what's going to happen? I sure hope so, Marissa. The Lord knows America needs it. We're in deep trouble. Our nation has departed from its ancient moorings and we are a drift >> and in some way we've had a political revival. They tell us we're about to have an economic revival, but if we don't have a spiritual revival, I'm thinking about how in the days of Israel when Isaiah, the great prophet of Isaiah, you know, King Uzziah had been such a great king for Israel and accomplished so many things. The economy of Israel was flourishing. There was peace. uh he was a powerful leader and but he was so powerful that when he died Isaiah the great prophet said in the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord high and lifted up and his glory filled the temple and he said woe unto me for I'm a man of unclean lips and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips and then the Lord said whom shall we send and who shall go for us and Isaiah said here I send me. And a great revival broke open in Israel. In some ways, there's idols in our life like Uzziah was such a great leader, but Isaiah realized until Uzziah was out of the way, they couldn't see the Lord. A lot of people today are maybe thinking that Donald Trump's the answer. You know, Charlie was always great to um stand for Trump when Trump was on the right side and to not say anything at all or to gently criticize when Trump was in questionable waters. How could Charlie do that? Charlie had a greater greater view than who the king was or who the leader is. Charlie understood. And I pray that that happens. I I but I got to tell you, watching what's happening at church, seeing seeing young people crying and and not coming to me and saying crying like they have no hope. Here, this is what they're saying. 15 years old, 16, 17, 25 year olds. What do I do?
That's what they're crying about. They're actually filled with tears, with emotion. I love Charlie Kirk. What do I do? What do I do now? Not what do I do with this news? What do I do with the mission?
And I'm telling you, something's going to happen. I don't know. Look, I'm not a prophet, but when you look around what's going on in, you know, London and Tel Aviv and in Sydney, Charlie Kirk, I I said, Charlie, I mean, you're I know you're famous, but I didn't know you were that famous. I think it's a move of God. I think God has taken this precious life that was devoted to God, and as look, Murray, as you and I sit here, Charlie Kirk is bigger right now than he ever has been, and he's not even here.
Yeah. only you that that's that's a God thing.
What was your answer to folks who are coming to your church now and are asking what do we do?
Yeah. Let me preempt it by saying this. Some people asked how could this have happened.
Yes. >> Right. >> How could God take somebody so special do this?
And my answer to this is is what I believe from what scripture. Number one, the Bible teaches in in um in the Old Testament, it's confirmed in the New Testament that God has numbered our days. He knows the days. He knows of our conception. Psalm 139, David pens there that the Lord was in the inner working of the womb when my parts were being assembled, yet in the dark. >> Our days are numbered in advance. >> Our days are numbered in advance, says God, and known only to him.
Man, you would think Charlie Kirk knew how many days he had given how much work he got done on this planet.
You Well, you know, you're no fun being with. You just took the thunder right out of what I was going to say. You You hit the nail on the head. Yeah, >> Marissa, you got it. Charlie, >> no wonder he responded to every text message and took on every opportunity. >> Charlie, and you and I do not know the day. But Charlie, in his brief 31 years, got more passionate about that day that he didn't know. Every day, it's true.
He lived at full throttle.
So, I don't have an excuse. None of us have an excuse. So, when people asked, "How could this happen?" I said, 'Well, number one, God has numbered our days. Number two, the Bible makes it very clear that we are to always be ready to meet our maker, right? And the third thing is the Bible tells us that God has given us a mission or works. The Greek word, we use the word works in English, but the the word actually means God has given us a lane. I think the word in Hebrew or in the Greek, it's a lane. God has given you and I a lane. Marissa, you are operating in the lane that God has given you with skills and talents. It's your we we conveniently say it's your wheelhouse. And I operate in my wheelhouse. And the young generation today, uh, without direction and without vision, God told Israel, without vision, my people will perish. Today, the young people, you know why they gravitated to Charlie? He gave them hope that there was a vision for their life, that they had a purpose. You could not be around Charlie and then contemplate suicide if you're 13. No. No. You came away, maybe you approached Charlie or went to the microphone wondering if you should commit suicide and then when he was done talking to you, you knew you shouldn't because he gave you the purpose that there's your your life is no accident. God makes no mistakes. And so get away from gaming, get away from your YouTube or whatever you're doing. uh tune in to more PragerU stuff and to what Marissa is saying and what Charlie's saying. Learn something today. Learn something new today and get up and live your life because God gave you a purpose. And so that's what that's what I was telling people. Um, and so what I've been telling people and um, I mean look what's going on. I mean turning point even since Charlie's passing the request for chapters at schools.
Yeah. >> I think now it's well over well past 30,000. I think it's last time I checked it was 32,000 requests and growing.
Pastor Jack, I hope you don't spend as much time as I do on social media because
I I actually don't. >> Good. >> Um, but for those of us who do spend time on social media, since Charlie's death, people have taken all kinds of clips of Charlie saying things to use it frankly to their own agenda. And you know, I think about this all the time because I think none of us really know what God wants us to do, right? So many people have done such vile evil things thinking that they're doing something in the name of God uh and and that it was the right thing to do. Virtually every evil person doesn't sit there and say, "I'm going to be an evil person and I'm going to do bad things." They think they're doing good things. But I have seen clips of Charlie being used in in every single direction to prove that Charlie was about to say this or about to say that or did believe this or did believe that. And it's it's it's a tsunami of videos and information that thankfully you're not on social media absorbing, but it's essentially this is my summary of it. And I'm I'm I'm curious how can we how how can we think through these things?
Yeah. Well, let me be just direct on this. Um when somebody says, you know, I'm doing this and they can claim that they're doing it in the name of some some belief in God. But you know, listen, this has always been the case, Marissa, and somehow we fooled ourselves into thinking things are different. You go back to Israel's history. You go back to the Canaanites. You go back to the Hittites and those that were um swept up in paganism. There were times in Israel's history where uh Solomon got messed up with this for a while uh and Ahab got messed up with this. And that was the the allowance of of idols and false gods. And so those things were often cloaked with using the name of the Lord as they did these pagan things. And so today when somebody does evil and they talk about you know God told me to do this or in the name of God this is what I'm posting. I actually believe them. I actually believe everyone has a god or gods that they are following. The question today should be this. What god are you following? Because when some murderous person or some incredibly mean and evil wicked person does something and they try to cloak it in in the god dressing uh again Jesus made it very clear. He said you're either serving God or this world. It's not hard. And so when people say things like this um I I chalk it up to them being as I mean listen I'm going to quote scripture here. It's it's it's blunt. Paul the Apostle said that these are they who are the sons of disobedience and they serve their bellies in their false worship systems for their own gain and for their own attention. That's being lived out today. But the beautiful thing is you're going to know people by what they produce. Jesus said a saltwater or a contaminated spring puts out contaminated water and it can't change. And he said, "But a a freshwater spring produces fresh water. One you can drink from and one you can't." So simple. He said, "You can dis you can discern the onslaught or the coming of weather or a storm by the color of the sky in the morning." It's very simple. So when when you see or hear somebody saying things like, "Well, I believe in God and the Bible told me," and then they do stuff that is or say stuff that is anti-scripture. In an age of deception like this, if we know the Bible, we we can discern that they're telling a lie. People who don't have a rudder, they're going to get swept up into that rhetoric. And I'm often, you know, I often kind of come across as a little callous on this, but I don't mean to be. I It doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me because Solomon said, "Don't answer a fool in their folly." When someone chooses to twist and to bend scripture to their own liking, um, that's it doesn't change my belief. It doesn't change the truth. They may argue with the truth and try to make it their truth. Jack has no truth, but his truth.
That's one of the great things about being a believer is I've surrendered to the wisdom and to the guidance of God. So, I get to follow him now.
I don't know how it doesn't bother you because it it's using God's name in vain. And that is a direct direct violation of the Ten Commandments. But also the if it's deception, which it feels like deception or an opportunist, it is incredibly dangerous. This special moment rather than it being a religious revival of unity of saving our country is actually used to divide. Dennis would always say to me, you know, I don't I don't look at race. There are only two races. >> The race of the decent and the race of the indecent. And I would add to it, it is the indecent who look to divide the decent.
Yes. Okay, you're answering. Let me go back to my comment where I said I I it doesn't bother me. Here's the reason why. And I and I'll clarify this way. I love what Dennis said and you just quoted. We know that for example the Bible says there are going to be these who for example will be haters of mothers, haters of fathers, haters of one another, that they will love them own their own selves and at the expense of all others. They will exploit people to their own gain. We're living in those days. When I say it doesn't bother me, I clarify it this way. If the Bible tells me these things in advance, it's it's announcing to me that keep your eye out, Jack. This is how it's going to go. There's going to be false believers. There's going to be false narratives. There's going to be violence. It doesn't it doesn't take away the fact that these things are going to happen. But when we're prepared to know that these things are coming, you mentioned the word unity. This is why, let me put it to you this way. I've I've been told that from the age of when a little girl is just young little girl, she runs around in her mommy's dress or something and the high heels and clicking around on the floor and she thinks in her mind about her wedding day or something like this while little boys are out blowing up stuff and that's what we do. Um, as this as this child grows up, things start to get serious. And then she's engaged. And then the date is getting closer. And as the date gets closer, the dress is ordered, the flowers are considered, the guest list is made. As she gets down to the hour, her m her maidens around her are are priming and and and making sure everything is in place and made perfect. That's how I see these days. These days are are days where those who believe are getting ready and being made ready. When I say get ready, that means I read this book and I try to do everything in my life to align my my belief and my actions to this book. That said, he's also the one who's working in my life because um I I cannot be good. He does the good. I seek him. I pursue him. That said, he's getting us ready in the same way when things are, so to speak, removed from the dress, the spots, the wrinkles. The culture is being divided. I hope I I hope I make this clear. There are people who talk about being unified just for unification's sake. That's impossible. It is impossible because there's the decent and there's the indecent. and they love their indecency. They don't want to come to our decent side. We say we believe in God. They say they don't. We feel like putting them in a headlock and making them believe, but they will not do that. When when you see that after you have done what Dennis has been so good to do, what Prageru has been so good to do, when you give argument and reasons and they reject it, they tell you, "I don't want anything to do with this. I forbid this. I will not listen to this." They make a choice. Look, you go back to Moses in Genesis where he recounts Adam and Eve. They had the opportunity to obey and then it says that they disobeyed. When we talk about unity, this is what's going to happen. Marissa, and I'm not a prophet, but I've watched history and I watched the scripture. You cannot unify around something that you don't believe in. There will not be a grand American unification. There's got to be something to unify around. Many times we will sacrifice truth to establish unity, but it's not unity. It's false. It's fake. It's like veneer. Truth must never be sacrificed on the altar of unity. Does this make sense? If a truth statement is made, you watch Charlie do this on the campuses. He made a truth statement. People either their minds were changed or some walked away refusing. I don't care how much sense that just made to me. I'm not going to believe it. Why? What happened? Truth is divi. Truth is truth is divisive. Think about it. Truth goes out and it divides by nature. What I want to do is make sure that those who are rejecting the truth understand what it is that they're rejecting. Are you sure you want to go that way? If they say, "I am sure I want nothing to do with your God. Okay, then I'm going to focus on those that I'm unified with based on truth as the foundation." This is why the Judeo-Christian worldview found in this book brings us together. I mean, I know, look, I'm I'm a Gentile Portuguese guy who heard about a Jewish Messiah. I've been asked I was I was on an LL flight to Jerusalem and a woman sitting next to me, she said, "Oh, I see you're Jewish." I said, "Actually, the inside of me is Jewish. I'm a Gentile, but I'm Jewish on the inside." She goes, "What? what in the world are you talking about? I said, well, I I worship the God of Abraham, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. She goes, "How can you do that?" And I go, "What do you mean, how can I do that?" It's a choice I make. Have you read Have you read the Torah? I've read I I've read it over and over again. I keep reading it. And um so she said, "How could this be?" And I said, "Do you not believe that your God is the God of all truth?" >> "Yes, I do." I said, "Okay, so listen. I love the truth of your God." >> Mhm. And uh it was a great time and so cute. She told me 15 hour flight. She told me, "Listen to me. We haven't even taken off from LA yet." And she said, "Don't talk to me. I don't talk to people on flights." And I said, "Okay, good. I don't talk to people on flights." >> And I knew what I was doing, by the way. I I could tell. And so I told her, "That's good. That's fine with me because I don't talk to people on flights either." So we hadn't gotten off the ground. And she goes, "I want to know why you don't talk to people on flights." >> There you go. There you go. >> She sat next to me. Our flights were messed up. My wife was sitting in the middle aisle. I had the time of my life. We talked for 15 hours. We were we were dead by the time we landed in Tel Aviv. >> That woman gave me her phone number. We exchanged conversation and we had the greatest time talking about this awesome God who's the God of all truth. But there's people Marissa, they don't want him.
Well, I love that you that you bring up the talking to people from from all walks of life. And that that was really what Charlie was about. You know, Charlie spent hours studying with Dennis the Torah. Yeah. >> Right. Whenever I've se whenever I saw him around Dennis, he was holding one of Dennis's books and you got to give it to Charlie that he he was really willing to go deep and and read the others book if that's what you would call it. I mean, at least the other interpretation and and and you know, Pastor Jack, you know, cuz I've called you before and I said, I want to do the same. I want to I want to I want to read scripture. I want to understand what we call the New Testament. I want rather than shutting people out and just arguing with them with ad homonym attacks and creating all of this confirmation bias around us. That was what Charlie was trying to do. That was that beautiful relationship that Dennis and Charlie had where okay well you know I'd like I'd like to understand your perspective. That's what you know we meet. I have a zoom with you. I find scripture. I say can you please explain this to us this to me? I'd like to understand it more. You know, I've mentioned to some of our our close friends now, I'm going to dedicate some of my Sundays to read some scripture from the New Testament because I'd like to better understand it. And I think better understanding and talking to one another is exactly that unity that would lead us towards truth. There you go.
But Pastor Jack, talk about talking to people. I I don't know what's the last time you've spoken to to Charlie, but there there are allegations and claims that Charlie was walking away from his beautiful relationship with the Jewish people. And I just find it so hard to believe Pastor Jack because I mean, I've known Charlie Kirk for so long. I I saw him over the summer. He visited Dennis Prager at at the hospital. He handed Dennis a book about the Sabbath because again he was so curious about the Jewish faith and the Torah and the Old Testament that he actually started employing >> the Sabbath. He he started keeping the Sabbath and and he's been speaking about that. Who do you think impacted Charlie Kirk and had him recognize the importance of of keeping the Sabbath? Who? It was Dennis Breaker. >> It was Dennis. He de he's dedicated his new book to Dennis Prager. Yes. But now, Pastor Jack, I know you are so close with him. I don't know if you're officially his pastor, but I know that you would advise him all the time. Y >> just what are these allegations that are being made and used uh to I mean, they're using Charlie Kirk's name.
That's right. Um, for all of your viewers, I love the word allegations. Here's what's going on. There were those who in Charlie's sphere of uh podcasting uh call it um just that realm maybe media some of them TV personalities some of them podcast personalities they post uh October 7th not so much not so out there but when Israel began to respond in protecting herself against the attacks of the Islamist IST, jihadist, Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, the Iranians. Um, when Israel began to protect itself, as any nation should, there were those who started making posts and comments, and I hope everybody hears this carefully, that Charlie knew very well, and he and they were friends and he respected some of them. And one particular man had had kind of gone before Charlie in some sense. And Charlie was very much impressed by his career. But that man and others their denomination, and I'm so embarrassed, Marissa, I'm so embarrassed about denominations to be honest with you. Denominations are Christians who depart from orthodoxy in most of the cases to establish some sort of man-made setup to whereby you must be a member of our church. And I'm not bashing Assemblies of God or Baptist or Lutheran, but these divisions have led to man-made structures. So when somebody who has come from a certain line of thinking, it could be Catholicism, it could be Anglican, it could be you, you fill in the blank, there's man-made input into these denominations. And when the narrative hit the news like it did with Israel defending, isn't it funny? They didn't say anything about Israel until Israel started defending itself. So what happened was they began to tell Charlie because they knew that Charlie had a firm position on Israel. Charlie had a firm position on Israel because Dennis, myself, Rob McCoy, others had clearly instructed Charlie over the years. This is God's word about Israel. It starts even before Israel. God says, and you'll remember a a podcast in a moment when I say this, I think God says to Abraham in Genesis 12, "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse those who curse you." And that that statement, that verse preempts, listen, preempts Israel because Israel had not even been born yet. Remember, Israel, >> the man's name is Jacob. Remember this. >> Yes, >> we get the name Israel from the man Jacob. The God of this book, who gave us this book, is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Jacob's name was changed. God changed Jacob's name to Israel. God says, "My promise with Israel is unlike any other promise in the whole universe. It's a promise to Abraham, his descendants. The land God told Abraham, look, there's the land. That's the promised land. People should take the time to go look at the scope of it. The Israel today is a is a freckle compared to what's coming. God promised. God makes a promise. He will fulfill it. the Jew, Israel, Hebrew, Abraham, the land, the nation are all wrapped up in one individual, Abraham. It's remarkable. No other nobody else can boast this. Charlie knew this. And when people who he respected said otherwise, it it hit him like we're all human. >> It hit him. Hey, cuz he called me. Hey, this guy said this about Israel and he said this, this, and that his bishop said this. What do you say about that, >> Charlie? Let's open the Bible. Let's go look and see. And he was getting bashed. Charlie never changed his position >> on Israel ever. Charlie was hearing his friends and it broke his heart that some of these people wound up eventually broke rank with Charlie, broke rank with me because I held to this promise because this God cannot change his mind. That didn't go well with some people. And in fact, those people went on, in my opinion, to double down uh on their anti-Israel, anti-Semit, I'm going to say it, anti-Semitic views. Israel as a nation is an illegitimate nation. Think about the audacity of this. Israel is a illegitimate nation. The land is not their land. They are the occupiers. And they were bombarding Charlie with this. And then they turn around because they're losing the argument. They turn around and they label or they try to project this kind of accusation upon Charlie. And people need to know that. And so, no, there was not a change in Charlie. In fact, if anything, Charlie wound up after clearing through the fog and going back to the scriptures because I'd mentioned people a moment ago, Dennis included, that led him back to the word. It >> wasn't our opinion. We led him to the word. I never gave Charlie anything that was my opinion. He he was smart enough to know that we always went to the word. That said, Charlie finished well and he finished great on this topic. But there are those who want to be able to say, "Oh, Charlie was uh coming along with us." No, he wasn't.
It totally hit me now. >> No, not at all. You're using him and now they're still using him. >> I totally get it now. It's political Christianity just like there is political Islamism.
There you go. >> It's the same thing. >> It's the same thing. it. They're just using Christianity.
They use it for their narrative, for their bias. They're using it for their bias. So, for example, there's certain people who we'll talk off camera on, and we'll mention their names off camera. I can tell you from their from their religious upbringing, background, those backgrounds that they come from deny the existence of Israel in their theology.
Is that replacement theology? Replacement theology is a cancer that has invaded many denominations. Not all, but many. Replacement theology is the very foundation that Adolf Hitler used to justify the eradication of the Jews. He claimed to for it to be a Christian doctrine.
Think about that. >> Again, it's political Christianity.
Exactly. >> I totally get it now.
That's why deception, Marissa, at a time like this must be discovered. It must be shouted from the rooftop.
It's why it has such a um Marxist undertone. Destroy everything, hurt the other, divide. It's it's wow. It's the same thing.
Look at those who claim to be Christians, then endorse replacement theology, which you might as well just >> What does it mean? What does >> you just might as well tear this much out of the Bible from itself?
What does What does replacement theology mean? It's tragically very simple that you'd think anybody, a 5-year-old, can figure it out. It's this. Because they've been brought up in a certain denominational understanding. I know this is this going to sound foreign to you possibly because they're not students of the Old Testament. Marissa, I'm sorry to tell you, so many Christian denominations and today Christian churches do not teach from the Old Testament. the people and those theologians and those universities or seminaries, they don't open the Old Testament. They just look to the New. And and because you cannot do that, notice this is the Bible. It's all of it. Why is this book old and new testament? Because you cannot begin to understand the New Testament at all without first reading the Old Testament. So, for example, the Old Testament says, "The Messiah will come to Jerusalem riding on the back of a donkey that has never been ridden upon before." So specific. Yes. Zechariah 9:9. Chapter 9:9. Jewish prophet to the spoken to the Jewish people. Marissa, how do we know if that was ever fulfilled? If the prophet said it, when did it happen? Well, we have to check and see. When did it happen? When did it happen? Hey, guess what? 2,000 years ago, on April 6th, 32 AD called Palm Sunday, a man by the name of Jesus of Nazareth comes riding into Jerusalem on the back of a little donkey that no one's ever ridden on before. And the Jews at that time on that day began to shout the 118th Psalm. They shouted back then 2,000 years ago. They shouted, "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. Blessed is the son of David." You and I were not there, Marissa. They were there. Josephus, the Roman historian turncoat, the Jew who turned turncoat and worked for Rome, said that there was over a 100,000 people on the hillside of the Mount of Olives shouting, "Hosana, hosana. Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord." That said, they don't believe that. They don't they don't they go back to the old they won't go back to the Old Testament.
The people who believe in replacement theology won't go to the Old Testament.
They don't go to the Old Testament for this reason. If they go to the Old Testament, they're going to come to the prophet Jeremiah as an example. Chapter 31. And in the scriptures, the prophet announces, God speaks to Jeremiah and says, "You see my covenant that I've made with Israel? It's forever. They will break it." But don't they claim that they are now Israel?
I'm getting to that. They they will break it. I'm the one that will be faithful. Though they may leave me and run from me like an unfaithful wife, I will go get them, bring them back. And in my chastisement of them for their disobedience, I may drive them to the ends of the earth, but I will bring them back to their promised land. and I will once again open up their eyes because my covenant with them is with myself. I have sworn by none greater than myself. I will keep it to them. Because replacement theology students do not read that. They negate the people of Israel. They negate the land, the Jew, and they insert the church as being the one that's the recipient of all those promises >> and claim that they are now >> they are now the new Israel. They get to edit and slide themselves in.
Correct. Listen, >> why can't anybody
Just edit and slide themselves in? And anybody could do this.
>> Islam. Islam loves the Christian who's a replacement theologian. >> Why? >> Because it's the eradication of the Jew. No land, no promise, no people. You can't do that because to my replacement theology friends, I say that sarcastically. Do you not believe that Jesus is going to return? He said he's coming back. And where does the Bible say he's going to return to? Jerusalem. And he's going to set up his throne where? In Zion. Hello. What? This is Bible prophecy. Where does it say that? Old Testament and New Testament.
>> So, Pastor Jack, do you think >> they don't want that? >> Do you think political Islamists are trying to push this narrative of replacement theology on the West? So that I mean, are they that smart?
>> You would be shocked to find out how many Islamicists are in bed with Christian denominations.
>> So what does a person with replacement theology views believe about the Jews also that the Jews shouldn't live?
>> Replacement. They'll be very, they'll be very soft on defending the Jews' existence.
>> And where should the Jews go then if the if the Jews are indigenous to the land of Israel? So they believe that they're not in fact indigenous to the land of Israel. So where did the Jews come from?
>> They say that what's indigenous to the land were the Canaanites, that they were there before, uh, Abraham ever arrived.
>> And the Jews came from where?
>> The Jews, this is a shakaroo. The Jews, if you want to talk, if you want the pure origin of a Jew is in the man Abraham. Think of it. Is he not the father of the Jews?
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Where did he come from? He came from of the Caldees. What makes him a Jew? The word Jew, we have the word, we have the names today, Judy, Jude, Judith. The word Jew means to praise. One who praises. One who technically we know the Jew is one who praises God.
>> Okay. Abraham was the first Jew and he was given a land by the promise of God. You say, "Yeah, but the Canaanites were there first and all these pagan people were there first." They were, they were there first. Listen, this gets heavy. They were there first. But God says, "I made the world." And Abraham, take a look, and I'm going to give you the boundaries. The exact details are given in scripture. That's the land I promise you. Solomon the king was the closest to ever fulfilling those borders, but he didn't. The Messiah when he returns will. That said, the replacement theology individual has a horrific, horrific problem with with what is called eschatology. That is the study of Bible prophecy. Because all replacement theology people have to put the church in all of the issues of the future of Israel. They take Israel out and they put the church in. So they've got eschatology that is completely messed up. Why? Because they deny the existence of the Jew and Israel and they cannot, they cannot exist with their view. And they got a big shock coming because they say, for example, the nation of Israel is illegitimate. I'd like to say to them, who gives you the right to say that? May 14th, 1948, Israel became a nation in one day. So, so Isaiah chapter 66, God said regarding Israel, can a nation be born a second time in one day? And yet, behold, as Israel was in travail, she brought forth her son. Remarkable.
>> No nation in the Bible is said to be born a second time in a day. May 14th, 1948. The Jewish people never lost their language. They never lost their practices. They never lost their culture. And on May 14th, 1948, they became a nation again because God said so.
>> What do you think October 7th was?
>> Let me put it to you this way. Is there a chapter and a verse in the Bible that says October 7th is going to happen? No. But there is the warning throughout scripture that Israel will be attacked. That Israel will the the world will turn its Zechariah says and I, you know, I, I just, I know this is coming because the Bible says it. It's never been wrong. But the Bible says in the in the book of Zechariah, the Hebrew prophet, that there's a day coming when all the nations of the world will will turn its back against Israel and then Israel will know that I am the Lord your God. Okay, so think of that for a moment.
>> Feels like what we're living through now.
>> We're getting close, to say the least. So, here's the thing. Um, there's no chapter and verse that says October 7th is going to happen, but October 7th happened. Yes, it did. Hap. Who did it happen to? Well, it happened to Israel. Oh, wait a minute. I thought you deny the existence of Israel. Well, yes, we do.
>> Well, I thought you said you're Israel.
>> I thought you said you're the one who are is you're the the you said you're Israel. So, they, they actually attacked the wrong people. They should have attacked you. Yeah. No, we're Israel now. Isn't it interesting? The replacement theology people always talk about being Israel until Israel's under attack and then they shut up and go hide in a hole somewhere.
>> Well, I wish they hid in the hole. They're now just attacking Israel again.
>> Exactly. And listen, the Bible does say that Israel. Look,
>> It's profound, Pastor. Really, it's so profound. You know how prophetic this is where on May 14th, Israel becomes a nation in one day. Do you know how many hours it took for the Arab world to attack Israel? The next day. Nobody talks about April 15th or, I'm sorry, on May 14th. On May 15th, Jordan and Egypt and all Syria, an alliance of nations attacked Israel.
>> On the 1948 war.
>> The very next day. And what did they have? They had some handguns.
>> Yeah.
>> They had shovels. And what happened?
>> They won.
>> They won.
>> Yeah.
>> But replacement theology people, they just turn their they don't look at that because they don't acknowledge
>> because they're because I understand it now. Replacement theology is a polit political Christianity. Yeah, that's what it is.
>> That's good.
>> It's not biblical Christianity. Absolutely not. It's political Christianity. I get it. Just like Islamism is political Islam.
>> In fact, listen, it's so beautiful.
>> It's a political tool to just enrage people and and garner garner attention and garner political power. I totally get it. Now
>> I'm going to I'm realizing right now I'm going to answer you on something and then I'm thinking, man, I hope Marissa entertains entertains this thought. So so much of the New Testament, first of all, the New Testament, New Testament is written by Jews.
>> Yes.
>> And the and the chief one is a guy by the name of Saul who became named Paul. And so he's the one who makes it very clear that he, being a Jew, when his eyes were opened, and remember he was like the ISIS guy of the day. What I mean by that is this. He was he was commissioned by the uh Jewish, I mean, Jerusalem council to go out and hunt Christians down. That's why he was on the king's highway to Damascus in the book of Acts. He was to hunt Christians down because the understanding of Judaism in his day was, we can't allow these people. These are renegade Jews. They're going crazy. They are taking and saying things and twisting scriptures. We got to stop them. So Saul is on his way to Damascus when he encounters Yeshua. And you can read about it
>> in his own words. He says in the book of Romans and in the book of Galatians, all letters that he wrote to Gentiles, uh, but not specifically Gentiles, there was a Jewish contingency contingency in both those locations that were telling the Romans and the Galatians about Messiah. Gentile Gentiles first heard the word from Jews. The merca, the first church, they were all Jews. What's my point? My point is this. So many Jewish people think that for them to become a believer in Yeshua, they have to give up on their Judaism or their or their Jewish existence. No. Paul became a fulfilled Jew. He never, there's no discrepancy. That's why when you read him, he's always citing Old Testament passages. The Jew is not to give up their heritage. The Jew is to wake up to the realization, you're closer. You're closer than you could ever imagine. In fact, we Gentiles, the Bible says, Paul says, you Gentiles, don't forget this. You have been by faith in Messiah. You've been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel. What is what is what is your comment uh when when Jews say about Christians that the only reason Pastor Jack and Christians are so supportive of Israel? Frankly, you're more supportive of Israel than some Jews that I know, let's face that. What is your comment that they say the only reason you're doing it is because you want all Jews to move to Israel and then the Messiah comes and or something of some sort?
>> Yeah. No, I mean, first of all, nope, that's not the answer. Um, Ted Cruz tried to speak to uh Tucker Carlson about Genesis 12. I will bless those who bless you. I will curse those who curse you. So, we know that there's a command to bless bless the descendants of Abraham. There's there's no debate about it. God says it. Second thing is this. Paul again writes to the Romans and says to them, "I want you to live for the scriptures." And in so doing, this is cool because I get to experience this a lot. Remember, he's talking to a bunch of Italians. I want you to live for the scriptures in such a way that when the Jews, my he calls them my my kindred, when my kindred see you living for the God they claim to know but you actually know and I'll quote him exactly. In doing that, you will provoke them to jealousy. That sounds kind of odd, right? It means that if I understand who it is I'm worshiping, that he's the he's the same God of Genesis 1 as he is the God of Revelation 22. That said, when I read this book all the way through, and then when I'm done, I read it again all the way through, and I'm going to keep reading it through until I die. When I get on an airplane and someone says, "Oh, you're Hebrew." I gave her all the answers out of the Old Testament. I didn't once go to the New. You see a jacket that you're a Christian. I am a Christian. But imagine for a moment that all I had was the Old Testament and I didn't have the New. That's all Paul had. You think people walked around in Paul's day reading Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?
>> They had written it yet.
>> Yeah. You're not in the business of trying to get old Jews to move to Israel.
>> No. You're in the business of doing the right thing.
>> I'm in the business of loving them to their Messiah. That's my that's my reason for existing because I an outsider. Paul said you are the wild branch. You Gentiles are wild branches but by faith you've been grafted in to the vine which is Israel. So he said don't boast against them. You should be humble about it because you've been grafted into the promises that's been given to them.
>> I want to I want to talk about one more thing. We don't have a lot more time, but I want to talk about influence because I think that it's possible that you and I are are the only people that at least I know that can speak about this one issue and that is there are these claims that donors donors will try to persuade you to speak about certain things and pressure you pressure Prager you pressure influencers. You know, Charlie was obviously very frustrated with with Jewish donors who didn't like some of the things that he said. Charlie and I texted about it. We spoke about it and I said to him again, there are decent people. They're indecent people. There are sometimes decent people who want something and you may not be in an agreement with. And if you're in the world of nonprofit, as you and I are,
>> we have donors who get upset about all kinds of things
>> all the time. I've been doing this for 15 years now. I've had Christian donors that have pressured me. I've had Jewish donors that have pressured me. I've had atheist donors that have pressured me. At the end of the day, Charlie and I would talk about it. We would listen to them. We would get frustrated by them, but it didn't matter. We did what we thought was right. And and we had one audience, an audience of God. Mhm.
>> Now, there are all these claims that that people in our in our sphere are influenced by Jewish money, and I just want to get rid of that silly claim because the idea that only Jewish donors have strong opinions is is just ridiculous. It's ridiculous. I'm PragerU has had its fair share of kurfuffles with Christian donors who didn't like certain things that we have done and I got frustrated them but with them but believe me I love them. I love them and I appreciate them and that was the civil discourse that we were all fighting for and so I I just really wanted to get it out because it's it just it's silly. It's ridiculous.
>> Um I've had those conversations with Charlie also. This is my counsel because this is how I live. at our church. So, I've been doing this for now 35 years. And from the very, very beginning, we started out with a wooden box on the kitchen table on Monday night home Bible studies.
>> Amazing.
>> And there are several of us, but I was the pastor. I refused to know how much was in the box, and I refused to know who gave. So now we're 35 years later and God is blessed beyond my imagination. To this day, I do not know who gives. I only know the amount of the year end or the quarter, right? Quarterly. Can we pay our bills? That's my biggest question to the accounting department is, hey, can we can we pay our bills? Are we meeting all of our missionary commitments? Yes, Pastor Jack. We are doing very fine. Thank you. I do not know who gives. Why? Because I want to be able to I want to be able to tell them straight up should the day come that listen, what you just argued about that I should you I should know that you give this much and your child is this now or decided to be this gender and I need to tone it down. Never going to happen.
>> Never going to happen for this reason. Truth is all that we have. It cannot be bought. If if you can if somebody can offer a price where you'll cave, okay, um, that's your price. But but if you are a truth teller, you are not going to have a price. And so I refuse to be influenced by people of influence because I do not know what they give. I won't, I won't know. I refuse to know. If somebody comes up to me and it's happened twice, thank God, only twice. I heard you say this today. Did I understand this right? No. Yeah, you understood it perfectly right. Do you know who I am? Okay. When anyone ever says, "Do you know who I am?" You know that you've got some kind of a interesting thing. Exactly. You've got something happening now before you that you may have to burp and and change the diaper on because you're you're going to hear from somebody who's very impressed with themselves.
>> Do you know who I am, sir? I do not know who you are. I am the owner of or the president of. I didn't know that. What does that have to do with our conversation? Did I not give you in that argument today in that bi in that sermon chapter and verse to back it up? Well, I believe the Bible says this. And if if and if you don't retract what you say, I'm going to take my money elsewhere. And I I'm not. Are you sitting down, Marissa? This is what I do. Sir, if you want to take your money elsewhere, just know two things. Number one, it is your money. It was never God's that you gave it. It was never his that you gave to. So you worshiped wrong, cuz it's your money. Number two, can you prove how much you gave us?
>> Because we will give it back. For those of us who have dedicated our lives, truly dedicated our lives to truth and to God in our country, the idea that we are for sale is so repulsive.
>> Because we have truly given the most important thing that we have, and that is our life.
>> Exactly.
>> And that's at the end of the day what matters to us.
>> Exactly. Pastor Jack, thank you for coming in today. Bless you. I can't wait to do this again. And uh, I look forward to our next Bible study.
>> Me too. Thank you.