when it's quiet that's when it hits you

that's what I think that's what a lot of

people experience when they come back

from a conflict Zone you know the

uh everything that was life and death

everything that mattered all the noise

all the chaos all the people that are

around you that would die for you kill

for you you would kill for them uh all

these millions of dollars worth of

equipment and stuff like that you were

responsible for now are all gone and

it's just

you the following is a convers ation

with Ed Calderon a security specialist

who has worked for many years on

counternarcotics and organized crime

investigation in the northern border

region of Mexico I highly recommend you

follow the writing and courses on his

patreon and website EDS

manifesto. this is Al Le Reedman podcast

to support it please check out our

sponsors in the description and now dear

friends here's Ed

Calderon what does your experience in

counternarcotics investigating the

Mexican drug cartel teach you about

human nature wow I mean first off

anybody can be got uh anybody can be

corrupted uh you know you you work in

that field and you you realistically the

training we got and profiling and

investigation andu stuff like that was

basically you learn from the older guys

there and some of those guys were

already corrupted from the from the

start so trust no no one I remember

seeing that xfiles episode where that

was stated you quickly learn that even

if you are somebody that uh to your own

uh mind appears

Incorruptible you know small changes

happen around you Wheels get greased

money gets put in front of you and or

things get threatened like your life and

uh sometimes a payment for some of this

corruption is just to continue on living

you encounter people that seem

Incorruptible that uh go through FBI

background checks that go through all of

the uh the the security measures that

all of us were put through through um

you know polygraph test and then later

on you know it turns out they were on

the take or they became somebody that

was

corrupted I think what I found out is

that anybody at any level they could be

a very strong hard to get person right

now but

uh people get corrupted through their

families uh through need uh Mexico is a

place where a lot of uh instability

occurs um so financial needs health so a

crack could form through the wall of

integrity and then over time it seeps in

somehow Mexico has a culture of

corruption like you know you have your

kid that goes to school at public school

and you want him to be in the morning

not in the afternoon School

uh time period so you go off and uh

Grease the wheels with the uh director

of the school people hearing this in

Mexico will nod their heads because this

is something that happens from early on

so there's systemic thing there's a

systemic and cultural thing to it you

know as far as getting around rules and

this happens because you know the people

are in charge in Mexico the government

is you know there their tandem amount is

trust between criminals and the cartels

down there for a lot of the culture so

people don't trust the government and

much less a criminality so when you meet

a person sticking on human nature do you

think it's possible to figure out if

they can be trusted so you said um

anyone could be corrupt

you know how long would you need to talk

to a person and your even in your

personal private life just a friend or

is trust a thing that's never really

guaranteed I think that trust is never

really guaranteed I know a lot of people

are going to say that's a sad way and

hard way of living your life but you

know life experience at my

end you know people change uh you know

the Dynamics of a relationship might

change um I look at people's character

specifically their past and past

experiences if I can somebody that

presents himself in front of you as uh

somebody but you quickly learn that that

somebody is just a mask or a Persona

that they kind of uh created for

themselves and they might not even be

aware of the Persona like is there some

deep psychological stuff sometimes I've

experienced a lot of a failure in my

life uh you can see it in my nose you

know you can see it in my lack of a a

digit you know um the amount of uh you

know the amount of failures you can see

in somebody and how they wear them

sometimes is a pretty telling thing as

far as them being able to be trusted or

that you can trust their story or their

experience and when I say experience I

mean I've met some criminals like former

criminals or you know some some people

of that background that I trust with my

life you know because they're not not

reformed uh but they figured out that

that's not not a life they could live

long enough to kind of continue on and

and I've also met people that are in law

enforcement that I wouldn't trust with

my car keys you know um because uh you

know whatever Persona they adopt adopted

over the over the years uh is a pretty

good one pretty good mask sometimes such

a good mask they don't even know they're

wearing it and on top of that it's not

just the psychology there's also a

neurobiology to it I've I've been very

fortunate and deliberate to surround

myself with good people throughout my

life but I've recently gotten to sort of

observe not close to me but nearby

somebody that could be classified as a

sociopath yeah and and uh and a

narcissist like I I don't want to use

those psychological terms but

just it's like oh people you know come

with different biology too so it's not

just like the the trauma you might

experience in your early life and all

the Deep complexity that leads uh all

the Deep complexity that leads to the

the psychology that you are have as an

adult but it's also the biology come

with the the nature that you might not

just have the the machine machine that

can empathize deeply with the experience

of others or maybe a machine that gets

off gets a dopamine Rush from the man

manipulation of other humans or the

control of other humans yeah I mean put

an example of my my own background uh my

mom didn't have a father you know she

she he left really early on in their in

their childhood you know my mom raised

her two

sisters and basically kept a household

uh she was a great mom uh she was a

badass you know she was very independent

she showed me how to be independent she

showed me how to kind of watch out for

others and kind of build me up in that

way and uh I had a great childhood as

far as you know as far as her and kind

of like how she molded me later on I

figured out that uh when I had my own

kid you know I I figured out that she

was basically trying to make me into

what she didn't have in a way and if I

can get to see somebody's parents you

know that's usually a that's usually a

sign of uh of something at least uh for

me as far as figuring out where people

are I think there's something to be said

about nature and nurture and how some

people come up some people are just born

with that uh predatory Instinct you know

um and you'll never know I mean they

spend their whole life practicing how to

hide it uh but if you can figure out uh

somebody's you know background childhood

where they're from you can kind of tell

something about them you know I'm from

Tijuana you know I'm a Survivor that's

that's my background as far as where I'm

from

uh culturally

genetically

psychologically the F shebang yeah I

guess some people are born with uh

certain predispositions and if they're

in the right environment some of the

negative aspects might flourish more

than others you know for me I mean I

grew up skateboarding in Tijuana and I

remember breaking into my first uh

backyard pool it was a house that a

cartel guy owned and we used to skate

the pool in the back in the back of it

uh so I learned how to buy padlocks uh

with a uh with a small uh vehicle

hydraulic

lift and I remember doing that and uh

later on in life I got to train with

people from other parts of Mexico and

and work with them and I remember

pulling that trick off and they were

like looking at me like where'd you

learn that like some burglars at Tijuana

you know and they're like wow that's

interesting like are all all all people

from Tana like that and I said no we're

not all like that but I guess in some

way we are because you know

Diana produces some produces kids like

that you know she produces like the

environment itself

produces uh produces a pretty specific

person I guess you know where our normal

is our normal or our Baseline normal is

way different than most the uh

trajectories that you can take in life

are um are defined in a way that aren't

available elsewhere in the world yeah

and so you develop I mean that's part of

that psychological part of that is

cultural and so on um part of that is a

cultural trauma but then then also the

ethical lines based on the corruption CU

I grew up in the Soviet Union and this

there's the same kind of understanding

that there's some great area of

corruption yeah there's it's always

there like the on the outskirts or even

in the center how you can grease things

to make things easier and how it's like

a personal thing I'll I'll just you know

pay off the and Tijuana we have a Mor

that's what we call it you know when you

when you pay a cop off means a

bite so

and uh but what's uh what's the bite

aspect so you get stopped for for a

traffic violation of some sort and the

cop walks up to you obviously you don't

say the word bite but it's like a it's

like a slang term for it and uh he ask

uh for your paperwork and you know and

if you get fined or get a ticket you say

can I pay the ticket here is what they

say and you know put their money inside

the paperwork hand over to the cop more

you think it's you know I'm just going

to do it and nobody know knows you know

but it's a systemic thing everybody like

a lot of people do it and then they

don't trust the police because they are

fed with

this yeah I mean same thing was in the

Soviet Union it's funny but then there's

something inside you where that kind of

uh those opportunities come like uh with

a police officer where you realize you

could just pay a little bit of money and

get out of a thing and then you realize

you can pay a little bit of money or do

a favor they get your kids in a better

school or something like that yeah but

there comes opportunities where you were

all right if if I do this little thing I

can make I can get a huge promotion or I

can get a huge increase in in my power

or get a lot of money and something

inside you says no yeah it's not right

yeah and I wonder what that is that cuz

um yeah I want because it feels

different than the legal systems with

which operate there's some kind of basic

human Integrity human decency I I wonder

if that's like constructed or it's

always there if this like again nature

versus nurture yeah I think uh you know

for me it was looking at seeing that in

somebody else that I kind of learned

about it uh there's a man that I

consider a mentor uh figure uh his name

is Lieutenant Colonel Le ala he was a

lieutenant colonel from the army that

basically came over and took over the

group that I used to uh work with uh he

was you know Incorruptible you know he

was uh that that was the the essence or

the the the aura that he projected

um the first time he the first time he

went off on patrol when he was placed in

charge of us I actually you know drove

him around

Tijuana uh he was one of those lead from

the front type of people uh the amount

of assassination attempts he got was

basically a proof of how uncorruptible

he was because they kept trying to pay

him off and when that didn't work they

tried to kill him several times I think

the last assassination attempt took the

use of his legs and that man is still a

dangerous person in my mind but for me

and you know people can gather a little

bit about my background and where I'm

from and some of the access I currently

have uh to train the federal

institutions here in the US as far as my

background and if I was corrupted or not

because there's a lot of that out there

um the the Catholic guilt that's kind of

built into some of us is always kind of

there you

know the devil is under the bed you know

uh so I I don't consider myself Cath

like consider myself culturally Catholic

I think is what what I kind of kind of

say with that I had a pretty good

structure with my dad and my mom at the

house and you know they never let me get

away with uh things and uh I think my

mom was pretty a pretty big moral

compass for me but uh that Lieutenant

Colonel uh kind of leading from example

and seeing his work and how how much a

profound change he caused in the people

that work with him as far as you know we

felt supported and we felt like we had a

guiding figure uh during this Diana was

the most dangerous city on the planet

when I was working there and he took

charge what does it take to be a man the

lieutenant colonel who maintains

Integrity after assassination attempts

is it possible for normal human to do

that or again as a genetic that's an

interesting question I I'll say this uh

seeing him I mean his last assassination

attempt he had that took a use of his

legs he was with his

kid uh there is a recklessness to it you

know I I I I can see that now like now

that I have enough distance from it I

could see that there's a recklessness to

being that way uh and also you putting

Jeopardy people around you if you take

that route so I think there's a

sacrifice to it a very powerful and hard

one to make for a lot of people uh for

me it was I wouldn't get picked to get

on on board with some some of the

operations group that I wanted to work

with because I was known for not you

know taking money or not being trusted

by certain older segments of the of the

organization that I was with with stuff

because they knew that I would you know

I wasn't on the you know they I wouldn't

get money um so there's that there's

there's always a weird sacrifice to it

and you're almost kind of like massis in

that way when you when you when you when

you get approached with it they're like

why are you being an idiot you know why

are you why are you driving around that

beat up car look at the Hummer H2 that

just drove in with the other guy that uh

is doing exactly your same job

um Society society as a whole down there

doesn't reward it or at least doesn't

see it in the people that don't take

that route in Mexico you know for them

is all cops are corrupt you know all of

them uh and you know seeing it you know

again from the outside I'm not there

anymore uh there is you know there's

almost like a why didn't you Ed you

know um it could have been easier maybe

or you could have you could have been

dead long ago you know because people

that are on the takeown there are

usually owned by one side or the other

and when that gets found out you know if

you have somebody that you're paying off

that uh hints you off of drug operations

in the area your Rivals are pretty keen

on killing you money aside so like like

a Hummer aside how much of a motivator

fear it's a big one you know uh I I I'll

say I you know for me like I didn't I

didn't think I was going to lift the C30

and I was sure of it did that concept

scare you or was was that just a

principle of life that you you're Opera

under uh I lost my brother when I was uh

13 on it too like you know he was 19 uh

he was like the uh the VIP of the family

you know you miss him oh every day uh he

was a you know he was a you know

skateboarded uh BMX uh motorcycle Hunter

one of the best marksmen that I've ever

seeing shoot so better than you at

everything yeah he was the best of us is

what we would say and uh when he died

there was a there was was almost like a

concert at his funeral you know I met

three of his girlfriends that all

introduced themselves like the the one

you know yeah I uh to this day every now

and then I get uh pull the side down

when I go back home and uh they uh hey

you're Eric's her ex- brother you know

despite all the stuff that I've done I'm

still you know every now and then I get

recognized

um that uh made my mom and my dad go

into a horrible depression and basically

you know left me to my devices when I

was a

kid um from 13

onwards I had this self destructive you

know aspect to me after that I think you

know again something that's come up in

therapy you know after I've been gone

through all that uh and had this notion

that if I can only die good in some way

shape or form or for something that it

would it would matter and they would

kind of you know look at me with the

same reverence I did at my brother so

dying isn't the problem the goal of life

is to die for something good yeah at

least that was my that was my mindset

going through that job uh I remember uh

I was in medical school before that you

know was second year medical school was

doing pretty good and then 911 happened

and you know that wasn't an option

anymore for me the economy was horrible

couldn't afford to stay there so I saw

this sat in the newspaper and my

brother's my big brother who's still

alive n uh he's

like notas you know you're not going to

do that shit you we wouldn't

dare and all of a sudden I was in a

field having my sh hair shaved off and a

bunch of the uh gothis the guys that

later turned into the Zeta cartel uh

military were in charge of our training

you know and I went went through that

process in what field were you and why

is your head being shaved and what the

hell was going through your mind what

was the leap that you took I was sold

the idea of this being a a new

Americanized police force that they were

constructing you know in Mexico in

Mexico so Elite yeah Special Force kind

of prestigious Elite uh the people in

charge of her training were a lot

basically uh ex Mexican Gaff people

gaffas are what the Special Forces kind

of orig ated a lot of the their members

turned into the uh The Zeta cartel so

they were brutal in their training uh we

were sold this idea of it being you know

scientific uh Ed like educate educated

based and like a career path and all of

a sudden we're in this uh refurbished

prison that uh wasn't good enough to be

a prison and they turned it into a

training

ground and I quickly kind of realized

that they were training us to be a

paramilitary group not a not a community

policing organization is which in my

mind that's I thought that's what we're

were going to be doing what was the

hardest process of that training for you

cuz this is like

a a fragile innocent boy becomes a man

kind of process it's it's uh they're

turning us into something that they

could use so it's a breaking

down uh they break down the individual

you know it's a physically and mentally

yeah I I think it's

a it's a it's a half done initiation

process I think in a way you know

looking at it from now to the past the

uh the Shaving off the hair the uh

stripping off your identity you know

everybody gets a gets a a number um the

uniforms the running around and and uh

you know being treated like human

garbage the first thing they said to us

when we were lined up in that uh field

was a

which means uh there's bread and Dick to

eat here and the bread ran out a week

ago right so it was I mean I can't

equate it to anything in the military

every in the United States because

people down there could actually get

physical with us I mean they could

actually hit us and punch us and shit

like that which is not allowed here

anymore at least in in in in most of the

military isn't as horrible as down there

um AK-47 is being shot around us to to

simulate reality basically causing

hearing loss that type of stuff um so

chaos uh abuse really challenging you

again physically and mentally and an

Open Door there always so if you don't

want to be here you can just walk out

and the more you go into it TimeWise

you're more invested you are so in a way

you're kind of building your own chains

while you're going through that process

were you tempted to walk out yeah

several times several times uh

specifically seeing some of the ways

that uh people that I thought were

better or stronger than me were walking

out or quitting uh because of something

that happened in there uh there was some

sexual assault stuff happening in there

uh as well are you afraid of

that always you know you're in a place

like that and there's females in the in

the environment and some of the

instructors are doing what they do so

that was like a cause for alarm I mean

these people are in charge where safety

and education and look at what's

happening here so you could see some of

the the smarter ones leaving you know

not not looking at this as a viable

choice for Life how did that change you

that uh those few

months I had this motivation this

idealistic motivation in my head you

know of making a difference and they

drill uh they drill a lot of

uh nationalistic kind of uh you know the

flag

marching it uh you being part of a group

and the group being you know behind you

and all of this what was the

nationalistic pride was it in the nation

of Mexico yeah yeah so what's the vision

of this great nation of Mexico that you

were did you believe did did it get into

your blood yeah it it got into I mean

it's an indoctrination you know it's a

it's a paramilitary group so everything

there is basically model after after the

military uh so that's what they were

trying to kind of instill in us I was

a I was a team leader in there after 3

months basically I was um we went

through a bunch of Trials physical

trials um mental trials and stuff like

that and some of us were named team

leaders and I you know bought into it

you know I'm the uh I'm supposed to be

here look at me I'm I'm I'm making

headways I'm I'm uh I'm sticking out a

bit you know and uh I was pretty proud

of what I was going through there uh 6

months

then you get the reality check when you

sign the dotted line and how that none

of it really meant anything as far as

what we were about to go out and do you

know uh an example of this we were

trained with a

92fs uh Beretta which is a 9mm pistol uh

Italian made we got to shoot 20 rounds

out of that

gun and then we when we got out we were

handed a Glock uh 17 which um I've never

seen one in my life I was uh trying to

figure out where the uh safety was and a

few other people there were uh handling

those guns in a horrible manner um uh so

we were very undertrained underere

equipped and there was a lot of

assumptions about what we knew and all

of a sudden we were being cast into this

the the start of one of

the you know bloodiest and longest lived

modern conflicts uh in our history that

doesn't get called that but it's it's

basically been a an ongoing war in

Mexico that uh that is still to this day

you know amassing bodies so the Mexican

drug war the Mexican drug war which is

you know it's hard to pinpoint exactly

when it started because when I was going

through training there was already stuff

going on I went into training in 2004

and there were already you know major

cartel related events all over Mexico by

then but not at the at the size or scope

as I was about to go into you know when

uh president Felipe Kon kind of took

office down there and actually

officially kind of kicked it off by

putting the military in play as part of

a as part of it basically militarize the

uh the drug war you know including us

who are the major players in this drug

war so the politicians the military the

police force the cartels all Mexican

then the United States China just to lay

out all the pieces on the board first

off there are giant local drug markets

in Mexico that uh are fought over you

know just local drug markets that are

huge in scope so no exporting to other

locations just a start yeah yeah so um a

big a big problem in Mexico is basically

those local drug markets and an example

of that and one I have a lot of

experience with is the one in Tijuana

which not only feeds the local populace

but also feeds the populace from San

Diego that crosses down into into

Tijuana and buys their product there um

and now you know phenomenon that's

occurring now is uh marijuana

trafficking is going from California

down into Mexico because they produce

better weed you know which is

fascinating to see now so there's

already a channel and you're kind of

like reusing that channel yeah there's

not lot of people in vehicles getting

check when they drive down and Tijuana

is being called San Diego South now

because you know all the economic

migrants you know um are living down

there 90% of all houses in in Tijuana

new houses are being bought up by

Americans so that'll tell you something

about the impact and change that's going

on down there so you have these local

drug markets that are being fought over

you also have these drug routes that go

through Mexico up into Mexico around

Mexico through the ocean uh under the

wall you know drug tunnels over the wall

and on backpacks uh on uh migrant that

go up into the United

States uh not only do the cartels make

money off uh drug trafficking but also

extortion money laundering uh paid

protection schemes um you know any

mining operation in Mexico will have to

pay protection you know or else they'll

get hit uh a lot of times money the

largest money makers for some of these

criminal groups are you know um

protecting and taxing anybody that goes

across the border so that's also a big

issue uh and it's not just again some

Americans think it's like the cartels

you know they imagine this single or

maybe two or three groups there's

there's several out there uh I don't

have a current estimate but last time I

checked it was somewhere in the vicinity

of 50 to 70 the different groups some

small that just dedicate themselves to a

single little town somewhere there are

armed groups that are basically in

control of that area to some bigger

federations like the caloa cartel which

is probably currently the largest and

most powerful one in Mexico and the new

generation cartel which is growing

exponentially right now um uh so these

criminal groups are are players in that

conflict then another player that

doesn't get talked about as politics

politicians uh there's a there's an

ongoing discussion that has been going

on I think since Trump was elected about

uh cartel's being a terrorist organiz

cartels being terrorist organizations or

not or if they fit that

description well um you know we are

living through uh multiple

assassinations on political candidates

out in Mexico right now and most of

those assassinations are motivated by

one side sponsoring one candidate and

the other side sponsoring the other what

I mean by sides I mean cartel groups so

they're they have elected officials that

are on the take and this is we have you

know many Governors who are under

investigation on the run or in prison

right now uh State Governors so politics

is involved in it that's a big player as

well that doesn't you know when you when

you think about the cartel problems you

don't think well some at least some most

people don't think about that aspect of

it so to have integrity as a politician

in Mexico means you have no protection

and under constant threat of

assassination we just seen the arrest

and prosecution of the head of all Conor

cartel operations when I was active uh

in the form of Garcia Luna Who was the

he was he was the guy Filipe gon who

kicked off the drug war that was his guy

turns out he was turns out he was on the

take at that level is there like a

spectrum of how on the take you can be

are there ethical lines that you can

cross some of it is money and then is it

possible to operate in a gray

area that does

not result in destructive ethical

violations I I deep ethical violations

idea I don't think I don't think there

is realistically I mean anything that

kind of uh supports some of these groups

you know you're supporting things of a

horrible

nature uh there I just posted recently

on my Instagram account of a lady that

was uh in

Guan she's one of seven recently

assassinated women that are looking for

their kids basically uh there's a bunch

of uh groups and organizations out there

in Mexico some in Tijuana that I've

actually watched with who

are taking control of trying to find the

bodies of their kids that's her up there

Maria Carmela Vasquez a mother who

searched for a missing son was shot to

death outside her

home on Sunday her son Oar Vasquez

disappeared on June 14th the 46-year-old

woman is the fifth mother to be killed

this year while searching for their

missing loved ones she was a member of

the yo missing person Collective there's

many groups out in Mexico who basically

have given up on trusting the government

to find their kids um the number of

missing in Mexico is a deated topic uh

because you know the government itself

doesn't release uh those numbers uh or

at least hasn't uh done a good job about

keeping them and or releasing them um

Mexico is a country that has

industrialized Body Disposal you know uh

in Tijuana we had the stew maker the

legendary St maker which is ay a guy

that basically used costic acid uh acid

uh to get rid of bodies at a massive

level so there's a separate operation

for getting rid of B bodies and

murdering the people at least at least

in Tijuana we saw that phenomenon and I

I it's it's obvious that it's it's going

on all over Mexico who's having those

discussions about mass murder and

getting rid of people i' I've been

reading a lot about World War II

recently and there's was aggressive

Innovation on the Nazi side of how to

get rid of large number of people cuz

for the longest time both the Soviets

and the Soviets were more brutal with

this it's it's literally it's a

engineering problem of how you kill a

large number of people and get rid of

their bodies so the Soviets were more

into uh just laying people laying people

down into the grave face down and

shooting them in the back of the head

and then doing that a m scale so you

just let pile people on and then there

was obviously Innovation with the

Holocaust in terms of gessing people and

all that kind of stuff I'm not sure

exactly where these tradecraft skills

are coming from specifically um you hear

discussions of Israelis training some of

the cartel groups back in the late 9s uh

specifically the Arian F cartel there's

a lot of stories about that a security

specialist coming down and showing them

things like how to make costic soda um

how to put uh rocks inside of bodies and

then chicken wire them around and throw

them into the ocean or or river so that

their bodies don't float and when you

kind of you put rocks inside of body to

make sure the body doesn't float so you

uh you open up the the intestinal tract

put rocks

inside uh you cut where tattoos are you

take off hands and faces and throw them

somewhere else and you wrap them in

chicken wire so make it not identifiable

yeah and throw them into a body of water

and this is this this is a horrible

thing but it's it's a craft it's a trade

craft it it's tra it's it's tradecraft

then it's uh it there's there's a link

to the us as far as that that trade

graft you have to remember that uh the

United States had a thing called School

of the Americas and and the CIA and they

showed things and a lot of that uh stuff

is out there in the hands of people that

are of that

generation there's a manual there's a

manual somewhere on uh like with

chapters and it's like how to get rid of

the body there's manuals out there under

time constraints or what what are how

identifiable can the body be afterwards

what what are geographical constraints

all that kind of stuff I think I think

that was common back in the early 2000s

uh and maybe the late 90s when some of

these things were going on but they've

lost even that as far as respect for the

government or bodies being found right

now you what you usually see is just

bodies being burnt to a crisp and buried

in a field somewhere that's usually what

you'll see uh some of the groups like

this uh this woman uh this woman belongs

to basically taken upon themselves to go

out to find uh clandestine Graves uh in

the outskirts of of of the towns that

they're that they live in um probing the

ground with uh these metal

probes and seeing if the uh the whatever

they encounter in the bottom of these uh

these clandestine Graves stinks or not

uh if they find IDs or clothing they

kind of gather that and they basically

present it to the investigative

authorities in the towns or States they

live in which basically doing their jobs

you know over 90% of all murders in

Mexico are never solved uh I mean it's

uh so they they've even stopped trying

to get rid of bodies in that way you

know how does a cartel take power how

does he gain control of this local area

that you mentioned and then grow get

take control of a region and how does it

do so in this dynamic

relationship between um politicians and

the military and the police force it's a

thing that happens over time there's

always been a big effort even when I was

in uh to buy or own certain members of

the police force even when we going

through training some people get pulled

out during training because they were

found out to have some sort of parent or

sibling that was a cartel member or they

uh their FBI background check came back

uh negative you know when they were

already in the training

program um so I I think part of it

is first off they uh take advantage of

the fact that Mexico is a young country

it's a country of young people um we

have a a a big group of young people

that have little to no opportunities to

come up uh when I was in when I went to

take that career path a lot of my

friends took the other option you know

they they went to work for some of these

criminal groups

um so they have this going for them they

basically have a lot of bodies to to to

to hire cheaply and leverage in terms of

uh forcing those bodies to do what

whatever is needed because the

alternative for those people is is

nothing there's no options yeah so you

have a kid somewhere who is working on a

field you know or you have a kid like me

that was out of the job out of school

and the only options for me was uh this

B in the newspaper which seemed like a

long shot or going with uh some of my

friends that had cars now and uh were

hanging out all night at these uh bars

and some of them had you

know Draco AK-47 uh pistols in their

cars and it would look cool you know so

there is a trajectory there's many

trajectories possible in your life where

you could have been still operating in a

uh criminal organization in Mexico yeah

I mean it's there's not a lot of options

you know do you think you'd be good at

it I I don't know I I mean I'm pretty

good at what I do now which is teaching

people how to detect it and kind of

fight against it you know so I think uh

I have a sense that that the skills

transfer pretty well that's also the

dark side of this whole thing a lot of

the people that I used to work with you

know I I know things and I have some

training and I had some specialized

training and I I currently do I've done

you know presentations for the Secret

Service and the FBI and you name it I've

gone there and shown them what I do a

lot of my a lot of the people that I

used to work with who are out of the the

job are in the wind you know and some of

these people are way more trained than I

am you know uh it's interesting what it

the the reason why I get S get looked

for and they ask me questions is because

I actually have the experience that my

University was the most dangerous city

on the planet and when people ask me

about some of that stuff I I could speak

from experience as far as encountering

some of that directly some of the people

that I used to work with who were way

better at it than I am are in the wind

yeah interesting thing in Mexico if you

are of the police organization and you

get fired or you quit you are ineligible

to join another police organization that

that discounts you so for somebody like

me who was a professional operations

group member or police officer in Mexico

of that region there's no options for me

out outside of that so they they

themselves basically have created this

inescapable box for some of these people

that go into that line of work and where

do they go after you

know I've heard offers of $122,000 to

join uh some of these organizations out

there plus you know they get benefits

not like the government you know I'm

still waiting for my liquidation my my

my liquidation check this is been out of

it out of service for like six seven

years I'm still waiting for my

check uh so some of these people it's

obvious that they the opportunities are

presented to them out there are stronger

you know and again the youth is what

gets eaten by this war and that's one of

the main things that they start with

just the youth we had a phenomenon in

Tijuana early early n late 90s early

2000s called the Narco Juniors Narco

juniors are basically board middle

middle middle F middle uh middle class

or upper class families had kids that

were bored and they just joined some of

these cartel groups uh these cartel

groups saw in them opportunities to get

into regular industry to go through the

family businesses to kind of establish

themselves use some of those businesses

to store for storage or figure out how

to use some of their transportation

businesses for drug muing so this is how

they

start and getting into different areas

you know that they regularly couldn't

and you know that's how it starts you

know you owe somebody uh they get into

paid paid protection uh type schemes

which are also common all all over

Mexico and uh soon or later they start

owning businesses and they regulate some

of their income so they become part of

the uh part of the part of the local

economy in a big way I had this

experience in CA where we were driving

down this shitty Street and all of a

sudden it became a cool nice you know

little curvy high like Highway type

thing and I looked around there I like

this is a nice Road and the guy was with

me he said yeah the cartel's built it

you know um you go to some of these

towns and the cartels are the government

there they you build the hospitals they

built the churches they buil the schools

Co happens they're enforcing The Mask

mandates you know they're out enforc

enforcing the mass mandates the the the

stay-at-home policies they're the ones

uh delivering supplies to the to Town's

people in bags you know courtesy of so

and so cartel you know so they they they

become the the Robin Hood characters of

their environments if they're smart you

know these groups basically turn into

that you know Robinhood you know

stealing from the rich and giving to the

poor or at least that's the projection

that they

give what's the role of violence in this

operation I'm extreme uh you know it

used to be that there were rules as you

say like you know don't go after kids

don't go after women but all those

things are gone now you know they had

been gone for I mean decades I think uh

the escalation of violence you know you

kill one of mine I'll kill four of yours

you kill four of mine I'll go after your

family because you

hiding um there's stories of uh high

level cartel people getting their you

know sons and and and daughters you know

murdered mutilated uh and revenge

killings so I think it's uh it's at a

point where it's spiral out of semblance

of a rule set as far as who can get

exposed to some of this violence those

highly produce Isis

videos where they show torture and

executions uh According to some of the

sources that I talked to here in the

United States that were looking at that

phenomenon they said that it seems to be

that that was influenced by some of the

Narco Blog videos that that were coming

out of Mexico early in the early 2000s

basically that some of these groups were

the first ones that got wind of the fact

that you can um export Terror or the

horror that an execution has through

social media way back when Facebook was

a bit more bit more of a Wildland area

you could see these and news feeds uh

videos of executions tortures and stuff

like that coming out of Mexico on

Facebook way back when wow this was a

different time um for people who

criticize social media and the

moderation it's a tough it's a tough job

because a brutal world world out there I

mean I remember seeing some of these

Isis videos on on on Facebook way back

when and they you know they crack down

and all that but uh one that's kind of

clear and I'll see I'm not going to say

where to find it but people out there

might have seen it because some of these

videos get shared through WhatsApp

groups and chat groups out there uh one

of the ones that caught my attention way

back when was a a guy getting two guys

getting executed by

chainsaw um and you know people can kind

of think imagine what that would be like

but uh is it produced on purpose like

it's videotaped on purpose it's a cartel

group caught two rival cartel members

MERS and a way to send a message to

those the Rival cartel is to basically

execute these people in front of a

camera uh I mean you can't get to your

Rivals but you can you can make them see

what they're doing or at least make

their people look at what happens if you

you know invade their territory just an

escalation of brutality in the violence

as well I mean and that leads to Terror

and that a mass communication of Terror

yeah I mean you you have videos of some

of these people engaging in C

cannibalism in front of a video to see

how brutal they are

or uh people taking out somebody's heart

while they're alive you know and filming

it and you know used to be social media

as a whole you would see some of these

videos they would they would get put

down in in in a few days but now there's

uh telegram groups uh there's uh you

know there's Live Leaks there's a bunch

of other uh sites out there that kind of

disperse some of this these videos and

it's basically a bulletin board for them

as far as you know hey you got into my

territory well this is what's going to

happen to

you right is there a game

theoretic way to uh remove this kind of

brutality to deescalate the brutality

because it seems like if a cartel takes

power that exceeds the power of

politicians in in a locality there's a

strong incentive to reduce the brutality

to uh to crack down on this kind of

Chainsaw executions you know uh there

was a recent leak of uh government uh

files call them the wakamaya leaks it's

our version of the of wik leaks I guess

and it was uh mostly uh documents coming

out of the Mexican

military uh I haven't seen it talked

about a lot here in uh stat side but

it's a pretty big thing down in Mexico

and in some of those documents it

revealed how powerless the government is

I mean as far as the military goes so

that's another player in Mexico the

military uh the military has been out in

the in force in the streets basically

doing a policing role since Felipe

Calderon was uh Administration he

basically militarized the drug

war um Felipe Calderon was of uh uh to

the right of the political spectrum and

his main rival who was his way to the

left is now in

power and one of the campaign promises

he had was to demilitarize the the drug

war to send the military back to its

barracks and all that and he's basically

continuing on they just passed a uh some

legislation that basically uh keeps the

military on the streets for a few more

few more years you know um and I think

some of these documents that were leaked

uh are very telling as far as why that

is uh they have the military now has a

vast amount of power when it comes to

security industry I mean they're in

charge of building airports and train

lines in Mexico

now um their documents themselves show

how certain regions uh in Mexico who

have a specific military uh presence

work for one side or favor one side of

the cartel or they're corrupted too so

there's these military forces that are

in part corrupted yes and then the

cartel who operates with violence

somehow finding a balance between each

other and no I it just feels like

throughout human history there's a

dictators or leaders that come into

situations like this and really crack

down on the violence yeah uh so it seems

like that's not happening it seems like

there's a kind of uh Market of violence

happening here there's a systemic uh

Amnesia that happens every presidency in

Mexico so uh president comes in he has

five to six years to do whatever he

needs to do and he does everything and

as soon as he's gone everything he did

even even the what was working gets

chopped off police uh organizations get

uh defunct or CH or their names get

changed uniforms change so there's a lot

of turnover uh everywhere every 5 years

federally there's a turnover and that

things change what about the cartels do

they persist do the leadership persist I

mean the scena law cartel has has had a

Figure Head behind it since the80s the

same one you know uh I mean it's it's a

Federation of smaller cartels that are

all kind of linked up but the pretty

much historically who's considered the

head of the the scena law cartel elayo

Sada has been has been there since you

know since the 80s so in a way yeah he

he's persisting he's surviving all of

these uh

presidencies again these documents that

were leaked are a clear sign of what

strength and weaknesses are there are as

far as the the the government's main

weapon against some of these criminal

Group which is the military and if

people doubt this they can look it up

now online because all these documents

are out there um but you know just a

clear thing the Mexican Navy or the

marina doesn't work with the Mexican

army they don't speak to each other so

that should tell you everything you need

to know as far as uh trust that could be

just bureaucratic dysfunction they don't

trust each other are they both

struggling with the problem of

corruption some of these documents that

are already that are already out there

talk about uh uh the ports in Mexico

which are probably the main conduit of

uh precursors of methamphetamines and

precursors of things like fenel into the

country they're operated and guarded by

the marina right so these things are

happening under their watch and then you

get uh talks talk about the Army in

certain places basically

working uh counter cartel operations to

to specifically one side not not another

you know as far as the Rival groups out

there

and we have a long history of some of

these uh groups going uh military groups

going rogue lettas are a prime example

of this these uh Special Forces uh units

that uh basically turned around and went

to work as bodyguards for the golf

cartel and then decided to but what they

basically did was an internship with a

cartel you know they went out there did

bodyguarding for the golf cartel and

then realized that can do a better job

than they were doing so they started

their own sparking off one of the again

one of the bloodiest kind of like uh

internal Cartel Wars in in Mexico's

history who was Al Chapo Al Chapo was a

part of the leadership or at least a

faction of the leadership in in the

cartel it's a Federation of different uh

of small organization well i' say small

organizations basically families or

organizations that uh conform this

larger Group which is the the Cena law

cartel that is based out of Cena law

basically uh they are people that uh

have uh and power nucleus is there in

caloa I mean uh who was he I think he

was a he was a high level operator for

the SC law cartel he um he had his own

drug routes his own uh networks his

family is uh his family uh nucleus down

there is still in control of some of

those operations so his arrest really

didn't change anything um but he wasn't

The Mastermind number one leader that I

think the media and the government kind

of portrayed him as you know who who was

The

Mastermind if you go down there and you

read uh what most of the uh Brave

journalists in Mexico that we have I say

another aspect of this war is that a lot

of journalists get killed I think Mexico

has a I think has some of the top

numbers in the world and this is no

secret to anybody uh elayo Sada is is

the name of the the historical figure

head of this cartel or at least somebody

who people the or suspect to be the uh

the the main guy or the main person that

is in charge of some of of of this

criminal group is he still alive that's

a going rumor that he's still very much

alive and the interesting thing about

him is that he learned his craft in Los

Angeles so people thinking that scena

law cartel isn't a Mexican thing it's

actually he he apparently learned a lot

of his craft from uh people in the

United States you know and that's the

craft of leadership the craft of

business the craft which which aspect of

The Craft the craft of getting a product

from colia putting it through Mexico and

the logistics the logistics part of

it yeah and he somehow is

uh operating in the shadows so he's not

a known entity I don't have clear number

of this but he was interviewed by a

magazine called processo in Mexico and

some pictures were taken of him this was

over 10 years ago probably and that's

the last time anybody's ever seen a

picture of him what's it like to be a

journalist in that so uh can can a

journalist have a conversation with him

and live nonetheless he asks to to have

that conversation I think he he reached

out to this uh journalist to talk about

it um there's a there's a media Wing uh

to the work that we do a sister page

called

demoler and and it's uh run by some

pretty good people and the way we met is

that I was basically training them how

to work in hostile environments and they

were like oh we're going to go report on

cartel activity in Mexico and I was like

you know that

is a year and a half ago a reporter went

to the president's Daily Briefing uh

press conference that he has they called

him La Mayas pres the president Manuel

Lopez zador and told him to his face

like uh I have threats on my life

they're trying to kill

me and it happened there's been a slew

of assassinations and murders of members

of the press all over Mexico it's not an

easy job uh either they say too much or

they say things that favor one side or

the other which is another aspect of it

that is interesting I don't I don't

consider myself a reporter I don't

report on the news in Mexico I have

friends that do that very well I

commented on some of it only uh but you

see a lot of these uh cartel reporters

go down there talk to a specific side

and basically speak one side of the

story and that is not something that the

other side wants you know if you if you

go down there and speak to one side

you're saying what they want people to

know or hear so in a way you're kind of

spreading some of their cartel

propaganda in a way and that's how some

people you know get shot do you think

it's

possible to go in there and have a

conversation with a cartel leader well

Shan pen for somebody like me for

somebody like Shawn pen this is what I

will say uh after after that whole Sean

pen thing I think a lot of people would

reconsider meeting with anybody of any

level that has any notoriety here in the

United States they don't they wouldn't

trust anybody to get that close um there

are people out there that will talk to

reporters you know people that are

working on a on a lab laboratory

somewhere in a hillside somewhere down

down south you know in the

Sierra uh you know lowlevel people that

get authorization to speak to reports

and stuff like that but they don't say

anything that isn't being taught or or

shown in various different ways or

Outlets out there for them

I mean some of these guys have Instagram

accounts you know some of these guys

blog about it you know but not the

leaders Tik Tok no not the leaders I

think after what happened to to aapa

Guzman I think that that uh that

opportunity that window was closed uh

for for some of the leadership down

there I think I disagree I think uh

they're just more

sensitive realizing that there has to be

a deep trust it's not just anybody and

not any high-profile I've gotten a

chance to speak to some very

high-profile leaders that don't speak to

journalists and they understand the

value of

trust if they have something to say

which I don't think they do you know I

don't think they Le unless at some point

in the future which is something I

suspect might might be coming that there

is some sort of armed intervention and

or external attack on some of these

criminal

groups that really puts the pressure on

them you don't think there's a a human

aspect to this of a human being wanting

their story to be known versus versus

this is different than the propaganda

machine of I have something to say I

have some message to put out there to

play the game of politics and power and

money and all that kind of stuff isn't

there also a human being underneath all

that armor that for for the sake of

perhaps ego Legacy wants to be

understood I think in a way they already

do that uh there's coridos which are

basically Mexican folk songs that get uh

that get uh sung about some of them so

in a way some of these some of these

singers are reporting on some of their

lives and it's like a it's a great honor

to have a Coro made about you know I

somebody somebody made a Coro about me

based on my interviews right I didn't

pay for it so it's a real one yeah it's

it feels cool so creating a myth the

legend of the man I think it's about uh

I think a way you can you can find

somebody like that is somebody that

wants to get their story specifically

clear and straight uh you

know coming from that culture and

getting to work for the government down

there and then not being not working for

the government down there and being on

the outside being critical of not only

the government that is in place now but

also the government that I actually work

with uh I can tell you that there's

villains all over the place down there

everybody's a villain you know at at all

levels in in some way shape reform and

some of these

people I think in a way including El

Chapo I think that some of that that

meeting was about film rights and and in

stories and being able to get his story

out there I think I don't I'm not I'm

not too sure because I wasn't there but

I suspect that some of that was going on

if you can bring an honest voice down

there they can trust to put that out

there yeah I mean I think he I I think

you could try I'm interested in that

kind of thing I uh because ultimately in

some of those places like inside a

cartel at the very top is when you can

really look at the raw aspects of human

nature in a way you can't necessarily

elsewhere there is a youth coming into

power down there and when I say a youth

I mean some of the old guard is going

out and some of the new guard is coming

in uh an example of this is uh El Chapo

Guzman's uh sons who are now in their

own right kind of getting gaining Legend

secondary status uh his uh his son there

was an attempted arrest on his son that

led to the uh famous kak gaso incident

uh which we are now learning more about

because some of the guacamaya Leakes are

kind of speaking more about what

happened that day uh basically a federal

operation uh to they say to to arrest El

Chapo Guzman's uh son um turned into a

Siege to try and get him free they uh

called in the calvary basically the

whole of the scena law cartel showed up

to try and rescue him interesting thing

about that is in reading some of the

documents and also just seeing some of

the videos and stuff like that came out

of that incident the cartels were the

ones evacuating the citizenship from the

area they were the ones going restaurant

to restaurant hey if you want to exit

the city go through here take your

families get down but you have to leave

because the arm coming here they're

going to fight

us um so there's like a deep morality

too to all of that underneath the

violence there's a Humanity I mean it's

their home it is their home uh and they

were fighting for their home and they

were fighting for leadership from their

home uh there is a morality there is a

Humanity there and again I don't if

people want to paint them all with the

villainy aspect you know uh that's I

mean everybody's a villain in every in

somebody else's story you know if we if

you kind of look at it that way people

should check out your patreon you should

check out your field notes you you're a

really good writer your Instagram to you

write about you have a quote in your

field notes about

villains quote I once worked for a

villain a savior to some and a biblical

demon of old to others a true product of

his

environment he was the best and the

worst of us we're all potential villains

in someone else's story he would say to

us as you as we would head out into the

unknowns that the night had waiting for

us it was during one of these nights

that I looked around me and saw horns

and pitchforks among my people and

realized what he meant we were no

Knights of the Round Table whatever we

were we were needed in the end I guess

that justified most of what was about to

happen uh do you think elcha do you

think people like him are good or evil I

think there's no one without the other I

think there's a there's a cost to

there's a cost to uh their goodness that

they do you know the roads they build

the hospitals the career pass that they

pay for uh there's there there are

doctors in Mexico that their careers

were paid for by some of these groups uh

and they do a lot of amazing good for

the community I remember there was a uh

surgeon uh reconstructing cleft

pallets in one of my travels that I did

out there I I I had I spent some time

actually going out there be after I got

out of the job to train people and the

the type of stuff that I show people and

and uh they uh they told me like I told

them like you're doing God's work this

stuff this stuff is like legit this is

God's work you know building Smiles for

people it's like yeah and then can I

talk to you yeah he said you know my

career path was paid for

by Cartel a group of cartel members they

paid for my career path because they

wanted somebody on hand that could fix

their

teeth do you think some aspect of that

is just sort of manipulative control

or is some of it also just again a care

for the population for fellow human

beings that are one of your own I think

both you know I think there's again it's

hard to it's hard to just make them

Saints or or Devils you know the uh the

some of the good they do in some of

their communities and don't ask anything

for in return you know uh and even if

they don't ask it for anything in return

where the military shows up they are

immediately melt met with rocks and

roadblocks and everybody's uh main

weapon down there since most Mexicans

can't buy or own firearms they the main

weapon down there is silence and their

eyes to report to the people that they

uh consider the good guys in their

environment right

so that's a hard question you know I

think uh I think there's a bit of both

and both the the government and the

criminal groups that are operating down

there silence is their main weapon

so El chap is currently in

prison is he worth talking to I'd say

yes is there things that to you are

interesting about him that are still not

understood is he a window into something

that you don't understand about that

world still or curious about in that

world I think he's a window into the

family dynamics of that world when I say

family Dynamics um Mexico has a big

thing about Compadres you know and

armanos like we have people that we call

family that were not necessarily their

family uh he is somebody that witnessed

the the the construction of what is now

the scen of La cartel like he was in it

way back when he started off as a as a

farmer and then went into trafficking

he's from a town called V wat which is

basically you know that's the uh the

wakanda of cartels basically that's

where a lot of that

originates um the the things that he saw

as far as how some of these things got

built I think would be an interesting uh

topic of conversation with somebody like

him so that story is a story of evolving

family Dynamics so part of the story of

the cartel is individual humans marrying

other families uh getting uh getting

named the Pino basically Godfathers to

other people's kids um forming family

and Blood Ties and influence ties to

people not only in Mexico but in the

United States and seeing how that

Dynamic and family Dynamic is still

there you know a so he's gone he's in

prison but he is he's probably on his

way to be our next uh clandestine Saint

you go to the uh the chapel of

malde Mal is basically a Mexican Robin

Hood the folk Saint down there who uh is

a saint of traffickers and at his

Shrine you have small little Chapo

Shrine right next to it so he's on his

way to sainthood in Mexico you not not

recognized by the Catholic church but

that doesn't matter in Mexico

anymore speaking to somebody like him

who you can consider him somebody that

lost you know he's is arrested but his

family is okay his uh his legacy is out

there he's going to be named he's

probably going to be the next folk Saint

when he passes away you think he feels

like the new wave of what the cartel has

become has betrayed him has left him

behind or um because it seems like the

way the cartel operated has changed over

the decades yeah well number one their

power and influence is bigger you know

uh they there are Cena laa cartel

operations in Colombia straight from

straight to the like in the source of it

and uh then there are clear uh they have

a clear presence in in places like

Chicago and Los Angeles uh they're in

the United States the whole thought

process that a lot of Americans have

like ah we don't want that that uh

trouble over here we don't want them to

get here or like build the wall and all

this so they're deeply integrated into

legitimate businesses I mean they've

been having kids and families up here

since for a long time some of these

people have pass American passports that

work not only directly for them but have

Blood Ties down there you know there's

been dragnets and arrests of some of

these uh criminal organizations States

New Generation Cel had one two three

years ago where I think it's operation

anakonda I think it was called there was

there over 80 of their operatives and

this is a new cartel that is very

militaristic and growing in Mexico and

they had over 80 arrests in the United

States you know that uh of members of

them operating here and so you could be

a legitimate operator inside the United

States that's hard to detect makes you

wonder how many in uh the US

government the politicians here is it is

the the role of the United States in the

drug war financially in terms of power

is very big yeah surely there's

politicians that have a finger into this

immigration is part of it uh illegal

immigration as part of it and the

influence that that has as a as a

bargaining chip and a political chip we

saw this with the first Caravan kind of

coming up and how it was

politicized the money fast and furious

and guns being basically let walk down

into Mexico people that don't know

basically the ATF had this operation

where they were looking at straw

purchasers of firearms basically people

buying up a specific type of firearms

that were on a shopping list that the

cartels wanted to buy including uh you

know 50 Cals uh FN 57 pistols which are

small pistols with a high velocity round

that will go through a bulletproof vest

um AR-15s of all kinds uh that could

quickly be modified into full auto down

in Mexico with a with a drilling a few

holes and making a few things uh to them

so these people were buying all these

the ATF was watching them and allowing

them to walk those Firearms into Mexico

under the guys of trying to track them

somehow which doesn't make a lot of

sense for most people to kind of look at

that operation the only people found the

only reason people found out about it

was because of the murder of a few

federal agents of the US federal agents

that were killed with those guns one of

my friends was shot with one of those

pistols outside of his house and they

shot him and they shot her his wife both

of them were killed

daughter was in the back seat lost uh

part of her arm when that happened the

guns were unique they were like oh we

didn't never like the matap polias is

what they call them them they're the cop

killers I hadn't seen those before so

they were unique and interesting and

later on in life I was watching CNN and

seeing the hearings going on I was like

oh that's where they came

from uh two federal agents changed a lot

and it was politicized there was a whole

scandal up here but in Mexico how many

people died with those uh Firearms you

know being let down being let go down

there and also what type of sentiment

you think the local populace has of the

United States after all those guns were

basically handed over to some of these

groups gun trafficking is another giant

part of the equation and part of the

problem down there as far as uh as far

as the amount of Munitions uh weapons

and now we were also getting um

tradecraft material from conflict zones

outside of Mexico so weaponized drones

the first time we saw uh some of those

weaponized drones was uh in

Syria and like like a few weeks later

you know grenades were being dropped on

the roofs of some uh public officials uh

building cartels are using drones yeah

that's been going on for a while there's

a place in mokan and has some pretty

interesting videos and the interesting

part of them is because the federal

police down there are actually working

hand inand with a United cartel Unos

Group which is basically the local

cartels to try and fight off the new

generation cartel moving into mokan so

even the the federal forces are fighting

with the cartels to try and keep this

larger cartel out and there's videos of

these uh civilian drones basically

dropping explosives uh they found some

explosive testing ranges out there that

are basically replicating stuff that you

would see the IRA use during the when

during the troubles out there from

homemade

mortars um you know IEDs have been used

in Mexico that not that much but there

they're making like a presence again you

know we don't have a lot of ordinance

around like Iraq but we do have a big

mining industry down there so mining

mining explosives of all kinds are

pretty easy to get so you start seeing

that and also I mean there's some exotic

Weaponry coming in from the south now

and from the ocean that some of it is

probably us uh military equipment sold

to various South American governments

that are now not as stable as they were

and they're kind of making their way

into black market so a lot of those uh

50 Calon vehicle mounted technical type

machine guns and some of the RPGs and uh

man pads or remote control guided

missiles that you that have been found

in cartel hands are probably come making

their way up from down south do you get

these like multi-million dollar systems

like the highr system in the in the

Ukraine you get like super sophisticated

advanced technology or not so like this

is like military grade I'm not sure what

the application would be exactly in in

the Mexico some of the SOP some of the

sophisticated stuff I've seen are man

pads which is basically remote guided

missiles I've seen some of those found

down there what is the application

exactly a display of power there are no

fly zones over parts of Mexico for this

reason the new generation cartel took

down a helicopter

there's been incidents of military

helicopters falling from the sky and it

it they they said that it was mechanical

issues but again I'm not I'm not going

to do conspiracy theories out there but

there's there's a lot of videos on Tik

Tok of uh Cena cartel forces at parties

you carrying around uh rocket launchers

on their backs and you know so so

there's an increased probability of

mechanical failures over those areas

when you're flying

helicopter yeah there's no fly zones

over some parts of Mexico and uh oh man

another thing you're seeing now is night

vision uh night vision equipment uh that

is clearly military grade from the US

that was probably abandoned in some War

Field out there maybe Afghanistan or

somewhere like that and it's uh it's

being found in safe houses and in the

hands of cartel forces you want to talk

about a scary opponent somebody wearing

night

vision with a suppressed fire arm those

types of capabilities are now out there

also there's this uh tendency to think

uh and every now and then you'll seees

these cartel videos with these guys

carrying around these 50 Cals and they

show up they stand there like you know

like boasting about the rifles and

everybody laughs at them because a 50

cal or anything like that without a

optic on it you know is like you're

going to shoot you're prey and shoot

basically see if you can hit anything

with it uh but now there's a a few of my

sources have I've seen you know

sophisticated uh laser guided uh rang

finders and and sighting systems on some

of these that are being found out there

how much damage can fatig C what was the

application they started getting them

specifically with the proliferation of

armored vehicles in Mexico Mexico has a

giant industry and armored vehicles as

far as so there's a race in terms of uh

armoring like protecting especially high

value targets and then weapons that can

deal with those armored ected high value

targets there was U an attempted

assassination of a state prosecutor

somewhere in I think central Mexico I

forget exactly where but she was uh

riding around a up armored uh

Jeep uh Cherokee I think it was and

their main means of of uh Firepower was

50 Cals and that car was left in pieces

she survived and it so I think the armor

vehicle company that sold her that

vehicle has it in the display room um uh

then before my time probably 2 three

years before I was actually active they

tried to kill the head of public

Security in in in the state of Baja and

with him it was a grenade launcher 40mm

grenade launcher it uh it skipped off

the ve the armored vehicle and landed in

the the the car behind it made the back

explode uh one of the guys that I used

to work with was actually in that car he

survived it um but you started to see oh

they're you know using armor vehicles

now let's get 50 caliber

now to try and defeat that armor uh so

that yeah there's there's there's always

this uh this race of Technology

basically down there armored vehicles

you know how do you take on an unarmored

vehicle well there's a few ways 50 Cals

you know if you can mount them in a

right way and shoot at a car like that

or a bunch of kids with balloons and uh

acrylic paint on the front windshield

and blind the vehicle so it doesn't so

they can't drive it anymore there

another way um toll line across a road

painted like the painted painted black

so you can't see

it and cut the thing in half again I'm

not saying any secrets these are things

that people have seen out there

uh shoot at the radiator you know uh

some of these radiators are not uh even

the more sophisticated uh Vehicles out

there don't have a sufficient uh

armoring around the radiator or the

battery housing of some of these

vehicles there was a case of a guy I

think his nickname was at bakas or

something like that out in Cena level

cartel guy had an armor vehicle he was

you know riding around and he got

ambushed he shot at his car he was like

ah I have armor you can't shoot me and

somebody went up to his car and just put

the barrel right in the locking

mechanism and that got him you know

so it's an interesting place as far as

people getting certain types of guns

armor is prolific down there I mean

everybody down there all the Cel cartel

M you see them wearing plate armor so

that's an issue it's not like

you can shoot somebody Square in the

chest and it'll go down are they afraid

to kill Americans so I know I was

traveling in Ukraine on the front so

like a lot of the journalists would

travel in like armored

vehicles and at first I was like it

seems like this would attract attention

yeah like it seems like they would want

to hit those targets but then then I

realized over time as I learned there's

a there's a fear of killing Americans

there could be a drastic escalation of

yeah it's not

a beehive

yeah it's yeah there's there's there is

a tendency to shy away or stay away from

that you know I mean these they don't

want the Heat or the attention outside

of that everyone's game everyone's game

but also there's been many cases of

Americans being killed down there I mean

we saw the Mormon Massacre uh happen

down there and all of them were American

Mexican they had both nationalities and

blonde kids you know white being uh

massacred in the middle of a desert uh

and the cars uh basically Catching Fire

this happened and you know the America

Americans uh sent the FBI down there to

kind of review some of what happened

down there and uh I think that was when

Trump started uh talking about kind of

Reviving this whole notion of cartels

being labor terrorist organization

probably more for of a political

pressure point he was using to try and

get Mexico to reinforce its Southern

border uh which it hasn't but there's

escalation you know oh this this already

happened and nothing happened so we can

probably get away with it you know and

again there's a newer generation moving

forward now of people coming into power

more brutal more technically Savvy well

they have the experience of their

parents and the people behind them and

what they've done and went gotten away

with and now yeah more Savvy about

information Warfare their main

recruiting tool is Tik Tok you go to Tik

Tok and you'll see a bunch of these kids

uh at a narco party dancing around and

some of these are videos by Cartel

members filming other cartel members in

cartel control territory and that's a

window into that life

for who's on Tik Tok now kids and the

enticing aspect of that is the money the

fun the High Roller life and the

possibility of making it to a level you

know yeah a Fame of uh respect

power money here in the US somebody

might you know I want a mansion and I

want like that that's their mindset I

want to live you know like that rapper

down there I mean if you can buy a house

for your mom you know or pay off some

debts that she might have or a car

that's enough to kill for yeah so you

also one of the many things you did is

uh you did security tried to protect in

this this in this war try to protect

people high value people how do you do

you and others how is it possible to

protect a high value Target like a

celebrity or an important politician in

the situation so I was uh I was tasked

to protect uh the governor of Baja and

his family I was basically replacing a

whole contingency of people that were

already there that turned out to be

corrupted that was in my field I was

operational I was working with other

people doing the counter

narcotic stuff and uh the director of

the institution that I was in basically

called me in and said hey uh you're

going to go and replace this these

people and I what happened to them

well so you were known as a person that

could be kind of trusted I was tasked

for that so I I think they considered

that and uh and I I specifically worked

for a governor named uh

jaman uh who was probably one of the

best Governors we have had in the state

and people want to see if I'm

trustworthy or not they can ask him

directly and I I still speak to some of

members of his family and we're still

you know friends in that way is

protecting people like technically a

difficult problem to solve for my

experience in that time and in place he

was basically spearheading you know

counter the the drug war in Baja when he

was in power so he had threats from all

over not only him but his family first

thing I realized working that job in

Mexico is that uh we had we had people

coming in to do specialized training of

that regard Israelis you know teaching

us how they would do things in Israel

that didn't make a lot of sense for us

in Mexico you know uh we had people that

had some Secret Service experience kind

of show us how showing us how they would

do like celebrity bodyguarding or

bodyguarding somebody maybe in

California of that nature didn't make

sense for us then we got to experience

some cross training with some uh nsw

Naval Naval special Warfare people who

were coming off uh protection details in

Afghanistan and Iraq is there some

useful crossover there we were

struggling with the acceptance that we

were basically doing protection details

in a war zone so the

approach uh that had to be taken in

Mexico was similar to the approach he

would Tak in Afghanistan during a war

some of the overt militaristic type

approaches to security that we had to

adopt you know from uh we didn't move

him in a single armored vehicle we had

two of them that looked exactly alike so

when we would move around we would

switch one card through the other every

now and then we would arrive to an event

they would open the door and it would be

one of us and they were like hey like

where's the governor he's in the back

one so they would move to that so we had

to do stuff like that and again this is

a young me who didn't have any

specialized training I was I was on

YouTube learning learning some of these

things uh going online learning about

armor vehicles learning about

architectural armor I think you just

described a large percentage of the

Ukrainian military how they operate

which is on YouTube trying to figure out

how to use some of this techn and and uh

that's actually incredibly effective

yeah you know I do quite a lot of stuff

where I'm totally not an expert totally

uneducated and so on it's kind of

surprising how quickly you can get

caught up as we're talking offline if

you take a course if you talk to an

expert if you learn from an expert you

can like catch up really quickly for me

it was all of a sudden I have this uh

director calling me in and I'm wearing

Vans you know and jeans you know t-shirt

and all of a sudden I had 80 80 some

people that I had to move around and I

was in charge of U securing planes and

uh which I what do I know about that

airport hangers uh armored vehicle

maintenance and and and purchasing and

figuring out how to set up a counter

assault uh group for for a protection

detail and I was like where I'm going to

learn all this were you able to quickly

figure figure some of these things out

on fly basically you know as I was going

I remember having this experience uh

being in the uh our security office on

my laptop figuring out how to set up a

counter surveillance uhp side to our

protection detail basically how to have

people looking for people that might be

looking for us you know type thing and

then going

to uh San Diego to

corado and training with some people

from uh former seal guys and NCIS people

who did that job in war zones and seeing

them critique some of the solutions that

we came up with on the Fly and being

like Oh I we never saw that before Oh

yeah this is we're doing it down there

so getting that compliment and also

getting their you know feedback like we

probably do this or do that and it it's

it was a learning process on the Fly

that was pretty I mean seat of your

pants level is it possible for the

family and for the high value person to

um to have a sense of normaly to have a

normal life I mean I tried I was already

starting off on the on the wrong foot

basically because trust had been

violated by the people that I was

replacing so I had to gain that back

then young kids in that family that

wanted to have a you know go out and

stuff like that in the most violent city

on the planet so I had to do my homework

and figure out places where they were

safe to go to and make friends with

certain club uh owners and figure out

ways to put Security in some of these

places and having to create this bubble

of normaly around some of these people

was pretty difficult and uh there's no

way that that is uh a normal for anybody

and you know you know God bless them the

the I know it didn't I know it wasn't

easy and I know it affected their lives

and they they lost on a big part of

their youth being under that that

security supervision and

bubble does probably does a lot uh for

for somebody specifically growing up

like that you know uh you lose

opportunities of things that we take for

granted you know just going out just not

telling anybody and going to the store

you know because you want to get some

snacks or something like that that's not

available to some of these people I have

to be honest when I was in Ukraine that

was a really big benefit youd Escape no

I couldn't hang out I couldn't eat when

I'm stressed I would fast and not eat

much so I get lost weight so it's great

it's great for the diet it's diet to be

basically be under protective custody

that's a that's that's that's a an idea

for a good new diet and just life it

allowed me to focus get a lot of reading

done uh focus on the important things in

life I mean uh I I joke of course but

there's

some there's some complexity to this in

terms of normal state of the family but

also just how to operate like have a

mental Clarity and a lack of fear just

basically be good at your job whatever

that job is as a politician as a leader

uh even as a soldier somebody that I

again I think thisa said this to me or

said something like this to a group of

us that there's nothing wrong with being

paranoid it's about educating your

paranoia and knowing what to be afraid

of if you're afraid of everything you

know you're basically overwhelmed but if

you T start educating yourself as far as

specifically what to prioritize as far

as what to worry about in know war zone

uh working protecting somebody you know

you're not looking at everybody's faces

you're just looking at their hands

because that's what's going to kill you

you know that's an example of focalizing

you know what you're paranoid and what

you're afraid of so looking at the hands

that's the specific to the particular

situation but also figuring out which

situations to avoid in which it's okay I

mean that's like ultimately one of the

biggest things you could do yeah route

analysis you know you you have to get to

the airport and you send off two cars to

analyze two routes and then on the Fly

you just

change trajectory to to create

Randomness and unpredictability and have

that as a a security feature um having

to a convoy of four vehicles separate

into two convoys and show up different

in different parts to again make it hard

for people to guess where you're going

to be putting out false information as

far as who where's going to be who's

going to be and that type of stuff it's

kind of amazing how many assassination

attempts Hitler avoided just by having a

pretty strict schedule and being a

little bit off in terms of timing just

like showing up 15 minutes late or to a

slightly different location we were

going through training uh specifically

around this type of stuff and and

operational training basically showing

us how to ambush people you know when I

started making a group for myself as far

as counter Ambush you know this cat

teams that that they call them up here

in the US basically a group of a group

to respond to a high violent uh uh

Ambush first off the first rule if if

you find yourself in an ambush it wasn't

a successful Ambush because if you if

you find yourself in it you're alive you

know yes um but if you want to create an

amazing counter Ambush team you have to

you know you have to make them ambushers

and with ambushing you figure out where

all the uh opportunities of not only

successfully doing what you need to do

are in your favor but also to escape

with your life you know we're not uh

we're not going to be received by virgin

in heaven we're not that's not the type

of mentality that we had down there but

uh we start learning about some of these

things and also seeing you know cartel

forces apply some of these Ambush

tactics to the military or federal

forces what is an ambush what are we

talking about so that's a surprise

attack with an asymmet power kind of

thing there's a contingency somewhere

moving towards a place that you control

and own where you have the advantages

where they can't see you but you can see

you can see them where they can't

predict you but you can predict where

they're going to pass go through you

know places where they forcibly have to

pass uh places where they're predictable

places where you can not only predict

but also have a plan for yourself to

escape and exit uh that place so how do

you train for counter Ambush you turn

into a like a perfect ambusher that's

how you train for counter Ambush also

always trying to make sure you have more

information about other people you have

the element of surprise all of those

things and Masashi would say know your

enemy know his sword you know basically

that you know it's simplified but

there's a lot of enemies around you in

in Mexico there's a lot of uncertainty

right cuz it's well I guess that's what

R analysis is yeah you you prepare for

the probable yeah and if the impossible

happens you're halfway out of it

hopefully you know and if you find

yourself in an ambush it wasn't a

successful one uh but you you you uh as

far as our training and the kind of the

mindset my experience with it you the

adversary IAL thinking part of it has

always been a very powerful one I think

one that a lot of people ignore kind of

like leave to the

Wayside uh specifically in all conflicts

out there there's a tendency for a

military force or a conventional force

of any kind to be trained in a way where

they dehumanize the enemy yeah and when

that happens you become blind to the

enemy's story it's his capability his

story his

ability uh you if you treat the other

side like an inhuman monster

it's hard to take notes you know so

there some part of this is a radical

empathy for for for the quote unquote

enemy at least for me personally uh I

wasn't I wasn't one of the guys that

would you grab him beat the shit out of

him and put him in the back of a van

just tie him up and gag him so you able

to see them as human I learned that from

my mother you know she said uh uh

nobody's against you at they for

themselves learn this and you will you

will make friends of enemies she she

said that when I graduated and I carried

that with me throughout my whole career

but isn't there then a pain of killing

another human always but there isn't

again I apologize to go back to Ukraine

is my only experience of this kind of

harshness it and it is a powerful

experience there's a dehumanization that

happens I suppose this is common in war

there's something like a video game

aspect where people are almost having

fun there's a humor and I think

underneath that the prerequisite is to

see the in the same way you see the

anime when you play Call of Duty you

don't really think you think of them as

NPCs the bad guys the Russians are

called

Orcs in Ukraine I mean there's all kinds

of other names for us it with mugrosos

you know malandro mugrosos like dirty

people you know there's always something

over time those are just words but over

time it gathers a kind of um like a

meaning to it that's more than just the

words Orcs they're less than human yeah

they're dirty they're too dumb to

understand the evil they're doing or

what whatever the it's useful it's

useful it's part of the program but like

that's what and I've talked to soldiers

and some of them do have stories of

momentarily remembering that there's a

human on the other side um I talked to

one

woman who's this really badass Soldier

and she saw this Really Brave soldier on

the other side do something

that was almost stupid How brave it was

and then she was trying to shoot him and

you she missed and she said she couldn't

sleep the night after

thinking why did she miss why did she

miss and then she thought she missed

because he was a hero and she had this

brief realization that there was a hero

on the other side like the other side is

Heroes yeah and then but then that

quickly disappear appeared yeah again

but she at this moment there's a human

being that rises to to defend his Nation

to defend his people and he could be

heroic on the other side there are

things that we're trained to depress or

conceal or hide and kill in us when

you're trained for something like that

or when you're in Conflict Zone like

that and you hear the narrative

constantly being blured out that the

other side is a orc or you know whatever

whatever word you want to use but you

know we live in a day and age when you

can see uh Americans going off to Japan

and shaking hands with some of their

former enemies I mean some of us have

seen that and how things change I think

years from now a lot of the the stuff

that we are taking right now is of the

utmost importance won't matter anymore

the question is how many years question

that's a question I asked of a lot of

people in that part of the world ah and

a lot of them currently they're also

self-aware about it they're like I'm not

sure I trust my current feelings yeah

but the current feelings are

generational yeah like for decades I

will not just hate the the leadership I

will hate all Russian people I can't

understand that on my side of my life

experience because you know our war has

been an internal War you know amongst

our people and monst our houses why that

is the propaganda it there's also a deep

grain of truth that there is a a Oneness

to the people of that region yeah but

people will get very offended at that

idea because right now it's a very

strong nationalist borders but there is

a cultural

history that connects people I mean in

some deep sense we're all connected we

all come from Western Africa and then

all came from fish before then depending

on your uh view of of Life of history of

life on Earth um but there is a Oneness

to us and often you forget that in

Conflict I had an experience working

there was a friend of mine who took the

other

path uh and went to work for some of

these criminal groups I was operational

and I

was uh we saw a bunch of people in a gas

station

parked back then the main you know MOS

operandi that they had was that they

would uh impersonate or dress up as

federal police and that's how they would

move around the

city we saw these Suburbans in a in a in

a gas station and some of the guys were

carrying our AK-47s you know and that's

that's not a standard issue

firearm

so you know we saw that and I got off on

foot and walked by to try and get a you

know better sense of what was going on I

took everything off uh wearing jeans and

t-shirt and uh I got a whistle from one

of the guys uh that was there and my

name was

called it was one of the guys that I

grew up

with redhead kid look like El Canelo you

know uh there's redheads in Mexico by

the way I think it's probably some of

the Irish that uh that uh betrayed the

American side during the last Mexico

American war that stayed down there I

had a bunch of kids so it's probably

from there love was stronger than

anything else I think this redhead kid

when I say kid I mean he was my age and

now to my eyes he's always going to be

younger

now he was a

told my name said hey G that key cat I'm

like what are you doing here it's like

ah shit I'm just you know going home and

she look going and get a taxi like oh

okay walk as he walks over it's like he

has a plate carrier with AK round uh

magazines on his chest uh AK without a

stock on it just carrying in his hand he

comes over and he hugs me I could feel

the uh the magazines on my chest you

mind you I have a gun on me you know

tucked and uh Nextel is buzzing in my

back

pocket as people are trying to you know

figure out what the fuck's going on um

he asked me small talk shit like hey

it's like what are you doing like what

what do you work at and I like just

looking for a job you know used to work

at a video

store so he's like ah haven't seen you

in a

while uh how's so and so of your family

good and how's so and so of your family

good it's like yeah they like this is an

interesting job you have he's like yeah

it's pretty good they pay us well you

get a you know you get a car you know

there's money and nobody fucks with you

you get respect I was like that's

awesome you know and if you want you can

get you in you know if you if you want

that it's like oh that's I'm too much of

a coward for that I told him

conversation like any other uh between

two friends he hugs me before I go some

something to him I can't remember what

and he says Hey in my ear I know what

you do for a living it's not a safe

place for you to be in and I walk

off a few moments later the Army showed

up and

you could feel the amount of rounds

going off from two blocks away

we came back with our guys and it was it

was

over so he didn't survive

that I I looked through the bodies and

the cars that were left you know there

was bodies all over the place people

left

there it was a

mess I spent like an hour looking for

him the only way I could recognize him

was his hair

um I stayed with his

body all night there's

a there's a bridge in Tijuana that goes

over the river in a place called L Mesa

and that's where the forensic offices

were his body was taken there and I

stayed with his body until it was

released I told his family about

it because I knew them and that aspect

of you know us versus them or they

they're the enemy and Sh like that you

mom told me those words nobody's against

you they're just for themselves so don't

make the mistake of dehumanizing anybody

and those roles could have been easily

reversed I could have been shot in the

face there that aspect the conflict

brings where they say bad guys good guys

you know uh Heroes villains you know

how there's an innocence to that that uh

you goes away is your mom still with us

no almost 3 weeks before I decided to

quit she passed away did that have a

role to play a major

one after I got done on the protection

detail with the

governor uh like everything down there

again the whole cycle you know he got

his turn so when he went

away uh you know politics change and

down there basically if you're a c a

gubernatorial candidate you have either

a friend a friend of a friend or a

family member be the head bodyguard guy

and the guy that won the elections had

his head bodyguard guy already there so

all of us were sent back to whatever we

came from so I went back to work on the

streets uh I was uh back on the

operations group I was working with the

subdirector uh directly with him

basically back on the ground

doing the stuff that I was doing before

that job we were moving away from the

successes that had been had by people

like Lola when they were in charge of

that whole process the people that I

used to work with some of the only

successes in that counter push against

cartels in in Mexico and you can kind of

like it's documented you can read about

it out there a bunch of people wrote

papers on it some of the only successes

were had by LOL and places where he had

leadership he not only pacified Tijuana

uh he also did the same in harez he was

sent uh to be the lece Chief and wates

too but politics change and you know

Heroes become villains um a lot of

people started calling him a villain

because of his uh unorthodox approach

and human rights violations and all of

this type of stuff kind of come to the

Forefront and people forgot you know

people forgot what it took to get

Tijuana off the most dangerous city list

on the

planet and uh people were vilified uh

people like him uh and uh the police

force that I was a part of started

getting

compromised a lot of the things that

were put forth to try and keep us honest

there was a program they had these

centers called the

c3s basically you would go there every

every year you would get your financials

checked you would get a physical

psychological evaluation you would get a

polygraph exam done on you all the works

to try and see if you were somebody

doing something wrong and all of that

was cancelled because it violated your

human rights if you get uh fired from a

job because of a failed polygraph exam

because that was not a actual admissible

way of firing somebody so all of a

sudden you had people that were known

cartel compromised people that were

fired five six years ago showing back up

to back up to work with their back paid

and

everything so this is wow so this

started happening and it quickly quickly

realized that it was going to be hard to

stay there um I was uh driving home from

work and I got a call from my

brother that uh my mom had been going

through some health

issues that uh had turned into

psychiatric issues so we were basically

taking turns trying to take care of her

you know locking the door so she

wouldn't wander off and stuff like that

so Not only was I dealing with the job

on the street but I was dealing with

that and also I had a a 2-year-old and a

marriage that

was difficult uh that that time so I was

trying to figure all these things out

made more difficult by your

job yeah it's not a financially secure

job you know and the pressures that it

has and the odd hours and all that made

it really hard

and then all of a sudden um my brother

calls me and and tells me that let's go

to the hospital my mom something

happened to my

mom it wasn't my turn to to watch her so

I I felt pretty shitty about that I got

to the hospital

and the doctors you know came out and

told us that she was gone it was a a

massive heart attack she she had a

pacemaker by then so she was

gone she was in her 60s so you know we

kind of expected something but not you

know that that was

like hard for me she was my Center she

was going to be the one that I would ask

for advice as far as work you know if I

should leave it or not the ground was

removed from under you there was nobody

there was yeah there's nothing

underneath me I get three days off work

that's what they gave me

and

uh I'm trying to grieve as I go back to

work dark shit crosses my mind as I'm

going through that process of trying to

figure things out um like dark shit like

suicide that dark shit yeah so it was

very low for you very it hit very hard

yeah I wasn't allowed to grieve

basically and I wasn't allowed to grieve

for for a few years uh for different

reasons I went back to work and other

people also you yourself were not

allowing yourself to grieve is it like

there's there was other people with me

that didn't allow me to grieve you know

um I went to work got called into the

office and I was basically told that I

was going to be

reassigned after I just what I just went

through uh the reassignment was going to

be something that I saw

unacceptable it was uh the people in

charge at that point were were obviously

corrupted and what I got from their

conversation was that they wanted us to

work for a specific

side and I knew that that was the time

to go

I asked for a license basically license

is uh unpaid absence from work basically

leave of absence I think it's what you

call it up here which by law is allowed

and I was denied for no

reason

so I'm invested in this job you know uh

there's I have a I have a I have a good

salary a salary and I have a category in

there so you the by the level of uh time

you spend in there you get a category so

I was a pretty high category

agent I had all this training and again

training that would be useless in the

private sector well in the in the public

sector in Mexico I couldn't change from

one corporate to another can go to work

for another police institution

so I took a deep breath and

uh I resigned I went to the office I

said I need to resign they said what I

need to resign some of the people in the

office that knew me from a long time

were like what's wrong with you they

thought I was having a mental

breakdown and it all over the all the

paperwork uh took a big trash bag put

all my stuff in there uh blate armor

tear gas G grenades uh gas mask uh

satellite radio um MP5 magazines uh an

MP5 uh submachine gun GLOCK GLOCK

magazines all of it

helmet and I put it in the AR I handed

it over in the Armory

uh and

I I

left I made some phone calls um I was

married to uh an American and my

daughter's

American I never envisioned myself

coming to the United States do that

process for myself you know so I was

invested in that job I thought I was

going to die or retire from

that and

uh it quickly became like an issue

because everybody wondering why I left

the job so abruptly so there were some

threats made when I left by people

inside the office and I probably you

know it's Anonymous yet so there's

significant pressure not to leave it's

hard to leave this kind of job yeah the

system makes it difficult to leave the

individuals to the degree they might be

corrupted really don't want you to leave

there's no support yeah there's no

support and there probably the opposite

of support yeah almost like implied or

or explicit or implicit threats yeah

luckily I had developed some friendships

in the United States for some with some

of the people that I used to work with

and cross Trin with and uh some

friendships that I developed with people

that I would uh just talk to and make

friends with State Side one of them was

uh is a Navy SEAL reservist who uh name

is Dan Stanfield and his wife Kelly they

open the doors of their house to me and

my kid and my wife at that

time as I seek to basically look for the

American

dream um I crossed the border

with my kid and uh nobody knew anything

you know I had I didn't tell anybody

just you know my wife and uh and I was

off uh when I came to the states I

already kind of dabbled in the whole

training field and and showing some of

my experience to people so I had at

least a seed of that out there people

knew me for that um but all of a sudden

I was uh

in the middle of an avocado

Orchard uh in the middle of

California and everything's quiet and

there's no more radios going off all

over the night there's no more three

three cell phones on the counter there's

no guns there's no rifles there's

no um 80 people calling to to to calling

to see what's going on there's nothing

it's just quiet

and it's during the time when uh Trump

got elected so the immigration process

that usually would take I I had most

things going for me an immigration

process that would take at the most the

year took two years so it

was it was not a it's not an easy

process to not only come to the US but

uh you know come to the US with uh with

that pressure kind of underlying

pressure as far as being an immigrant at

that time here and then your own

personal psychological the PTSD of of

going from a war zone to a uh avocado

Orchard the word PTSD and TBI and all of

these things I did not I didn't know any

of them uh it was through people that I

got to meet uh in the training field uh

that were you know Marines uh seals uh

marock guys those types of people that

started giving words to some of the

things that I felt which I didn't really

know you know uh we would treat uh

post-traumatic stress with alcohol and

vacation time yeah botle mcal you know

when you see the bottom of it you're

troubles are gone cured yeah

immediately I was I was an alcoholic as

well as all the other stuff I was I was

drinking myself to sleep every every

third night uh my marriage obviously was

failing you know it was it wasn't easy

for her you know she she was Brave and

she did what she could and and I I

totally respect and understand her

process with it

but you know when when it's quiet that's

when it hits you that's what I think

that's what a lot of people experience

when they come back from a conflict Zone

you know the

uh everything that was life and death

everything that mattered all the noise

all the chaos all the people that are

around you that would die for you kill

for you you would kill for them uh all

these millions of dollars worth of

equipment and stuff like that you were

responsible for now are all gone and

it's just you uh walking into a Circle K

and buying three cans of Fosters to

drink yourself to sleep yeah you write

on your patreon

brilliantly about

BTSD about uh the cost of things you've

done and seen

quote when it's over and we are far from

that chaos and noise of death being

close and life being

real that is when some of us remember in

the quiet nights in a field in Tennessee

looking at fireflies walking through a

fair holding hands with a lover asking

you what's wrong at your kids's birthday

party leave early to avoid the ending of

celebration that is what the quiet means

to some of us so that's speaking to that

silence the quiet um how do you live

with and Thrive with this newly learned

term of PTSD if anything I would

recommend people that that have any of

these issues to go to places where other

people have their issues so you can it's

not a competition but you get to see the

scope of problems in the world and you

sometimes feel kind of lucky as far as

your own like it humbles you yeah and

makes you appreciate of all the

different kinds of struggles that people

go yeah I mean I went through some

horrible shit but there's some people

there that went through other more

horrible shit or stuff that I I I don't

think I could have survived when I went

through that process of figuring things

out you know the first thing that

glaringly pointed out or stuck out to me

was my inability

to process things like there was a big

pause button there a giant one

everything was on pause my grieving not

only my mom but my brother

so I had a pause button on me since I

were 13

basically uh then I got to

bury many of my

friends inform their wives or

girlfriends of what

happened and that all again was paused

because I wasn't uh allowed to process

you I spent years without going on

vacation because I was a

workaholic and uh I found at the core of

my issues uh alcohol a giant pause

button in the form of alcohol basically

I I'll drink my problems away or

specifically I would it's like uh if you

have a mess in your house you just put a

big tarp over it you know to cover it up

and alcohol was at for

me and it festered more and more as I

not only went through the process of

learning about pcsd going through

therapy but refusing to let that go you

know it's like going through therapy and

seeing what other people's problems were

and I don't want to you know this is the

only thing I have I'm not you know I'm

not hurting anybody with it you know why

why am I why do I need to get rid of

that uh by this point I was traveling

across the country and training people

and uh showing some of the experiences

that I had to other people speaking

being on podcast and having

conversations like the one I'm at with

you so speaking to the skills that

you've developed and in a way basically

re reliving and reopening a bunch of

shit for myself every time I do it um so

I was I was getting triggered and the

way I would manage that was I would

drink you know at the end of the night

after a a weekend class somewhere when I

talk about the fireflies and a field in

Tennessee it was a moment where I was

forcing myself to try and be sober and

we did this medical class out in uh out

in the hills in Tennessee it beautiful

green Place uh beautiful family there

that that hosted us and it's the first

time I ever saw flow flies so I was like

thought I was having a hallogen

experience when I say why is why are why

why is the dust glowing you know is what

I thought a friend of mine is a a

veteran he ran off to the woods and

grabbed one and brought it to me and

showed it to me I was like holy shit

that's what is that's a

firefly wow how do they glow I don't

know and he's crushing it in his hand

and say on and I that you know brought

me back immediately to holy shit you

know uh it kind of like I was off

somewhere and I was back and I had to go

drink I went through that process of

like going off it getting on and going

off getting off and my

marriage

separated and that was a another end of

the world aspect to to to everything you

know you know I lost my mother I lost

uh the job and then the marriage uh

failed and it was on

I basically went somewhere and did a

stock of everything that was going

on and made a decision to stop

drinking yeah had a had some bad

relationships

after and I just came to a place where I

need to stop drinking you've gotten de

points so low was this a decision you

arrived at by yourself was there some

inspiration or was it just the point is

so low lost so much it was the start of

Co so uh this is recent this probably

two I'm going to I'm going to I'm going

to have two years Sil in December so

when you talk to Rogan the first time

you're still struggling with this demon

yeah I was in and out of the car

basically is what I I would say you know

I was in and out of and then trying to

get rid of it that must be a super

stressful experience talking to Joe

Rogan the first time did you drink that

night you remember the second time I was

there I would I I went somewhere got

shit face it was it was stressful not

not for any other reason than I felt the

responsibility to the people that

couldn't speak about it so that's a

pressure it was a start of Co and things

got it started getting shut down and

slowed

down my dad got really sick and almost

died we had to set up like some Jason

Bourne level shit at his at at my

brother's place we we he was in Mexico

you know so we had to bribe a guy to get

us an oxygen tank and I had to Jimmy rig

a respirator and it was it was it was it

was some shit

but my dad was

like you know he survived it you know

everybody the doctor were like say

goodbye and the the my dad was like yeah

say goodbye to him you

know okay so your dad's a gangster I got

it tough cut he did he did some gangster

shit that

day but uh on my end I was being

isolated basically his Co is everybody's

slowing down no more classes no more

excuses to go out there and drink and no

more social soci iing so social drinking

turned into alone drinking more and more

and

more I bought a bottle of

Jin because uh I was I was down in

Mexico taking care of my dad and uh they

closed down beer production in Mexico so

beer went away and beer was a way I kind

of Managed IT you know it's not hard

alcohol it's just beer so you know but

that went away so it was just hard ALC

that was was available down there I uh

one night alone at the uh at the house

my dad's house I uh I drank a bottle of

Jin a whole bottle of

Jin I almost

died and after that you

know some people started noticing that

uh that I was isolating more and more

and it was kind of eating away at

me I was in a Rel relationship at that

point when I I started seeing everything

just kind of fall apart around

and I I drank half of a glass of uh

wine and it made me sick to my like

internally in my

mind and uh my kid said uh to me and I

don't know nobody coached her nobody

said anything to her she's she's pretty

intuitive kid

said I don't drink anymore

dad out of nowhere in the middle of the

night uh and I

stopped I stopped that I stopped that

night I remember waking up at 3:00 in

the morning uh and taking a cooler that

I had and just dumping all the beers in

it and chucking them in the garbage and

with a knife poking each of them to not

you know be tempted to go back for them

and then the second day I went around

and started finding the hides that I had

because I had some you know hides yeah

and

uh and then I went somewhere and locked

myself in

for two

weeks uh I had

the the withdrawals uh the clearest

nightmares that I've ever had in my life

for two 3 weeks I went somewhere

where I want to keep them private but I

went somewhere

where they offered a place for me and uh

when I asked them about it they it's a

community I gave them some money for

their school as a donation gave them

like a few a few thousand dollars I yeah

sure come you know you can you can go

through this process here cool as fuck

people mhm the first thing I they did

when I got there is they stood me up in

front of everybody to thank me for the

donation and then told everybody that I

was an alcoholic and if anybody saw me

drinking I was to be kicked out of there

immediately and uh I felt

horrible um

so that's that was where I started is

that Temptation still

there there was a moment when it

was uh

and uh some uh therapy Circle

there's a there's a rodeo clown friend

of mine who his body's his spine is

basically fused together you know type

guy uh we've been friends and enemies

and friends again you know in during the

our therapy uh Circle sessions Oho like

there's an intimacy there yeah um he

didn't know anything about

me uh one time when we was telling our

story he stood up and told his story and

then he heard mine and and then he was

pissed off at me and didn't want to talk

to me for a while and then later he told

me that it was because uh he saw what I

did with my experience and how much of a

difference that he perceived that I was

making with it and he felt uh jealous

that he couldn't do the same with his

experience because he was just a broken

ex rodeo clown he told me when I was

going through the process like hey

you're you're a internet celebrity

person you know you're you're known

uh aren't you worried about people

finding out that you're that you're

recovering drunk and I said yeah it's

fucking scary as shit if people find out

that I am going through this process

it's scary that you know the critique

you know I already get a lot of shit for

being a ex police officer in Mexico and

all that uh all the negativity that

comes from

that and he said don't

be you know that you can't pickpocket a

naked man so just get naked and what

does that mean write about it post it

online

you never know somebody somebody out

there might get inspired to do their own

kind of

process so I started posting

about cowardly in a way because I wanted

to make other people keep me on the path

you know but in other ways you know uh

desperation you know I don't I don't I

don't want to drink anymore I don't want

to go back to that on that uh path which

I know leads directly to a bad death I'm

not afraid of death I just want a good

one I don't want a bad one I think that

was going to lead me to a bad

death I started writing about it and

sharing it online you know through my uh

fever dreams post and just uh being

humorous about it online and getting a

lot of hate on one side you know having

a few people and companies that I work

with kind of step back and seeing this

guy has some issues to having other

people kind of make fun of or make light

of that uh weakness portrayed Al getting

hate getting criticism because here you

are a counter narcotics police officer

there's no has a drinking problem so is

that like supposed to be what like flaws

revealed weakness uh or a perception of

alpha in the US I guess that some people

have you know you were supposed to be

strong and here you are I mean I'm not

I'm not Jaco wilnick I'm not David

Goggins you know I I'll I wake up at

10:00 in the morning sometimes and I'll

have cornflakes with my 8-year-old you

know um I like days off I I used to wake

up at 3:30 in the morning every day to

to to review what happened during the

night and then go off for a jog and then

the gym and just be ready to be able to

murder somebody with my hands if I had

to but that is I couldn't maintain that

during the whole process of getting out

of it now leaving

alcohol I remember just being honest

with it and just seeing the two sides of

it you know Joe told me never read the

comment section right which is a

beautiful it's a beautiful piece of

advice but

uh it they get you you sometimes when

you talk about some of these things

openly and some of the comments were

positive and I've been seeing people

comment sending me messages and meeting

people on the road that are 5 months

in uh 10 months uh some people that have

been on that uh wagon for way longer

than I have um and

uh there's it's what's cool when you

meet people that are superum

or perform and are take an extreme

ownership of things and are just amazing

people that are you know thriving out

there it's inspirational I see some of

these people and I'm like holy shit I

need to figure out how to get to some

semblance of that but I'm not that you

know I've been through the ring

I fucked up a shit ton of times you know

my nose is a example of that I few

missing teeth but in a way I think all

of that is part of the process that not

a lot of people want to talk about you

know independently of the experience I

got down there and some of the things

that I show and talk about and some of

the advocacy I do related to women like

her that are you know trying to look for

a better life and trying to find their

missing kids uh training people to not

get into those

situations uh but also showcasing the

fact that people that go through some of

these processes have a journey to go

through you know uh I just came into

your studio with a duffel bag straight

from the airport and I'm going to leave

uh early tomorrow morning to somewhere

else I've been on the road

for almost I think 5 years

non-stop I go back to a specific place

every week to see my kid for 2 3 days

and then I'm back out you know R you

know some people like are you running

like are you worried afraid about

something no but I am you know on this

weird path I guess trying to look for

something that I think I've been

missing as far as my afterlife of A Sort

you know coming out think that is are

you looking for some kind of deeper

understanding of humanity like from the

specific experiences you had to get some

deeper understanding of what what the

hell we're all doing here I meet people

every weekend with different stories uh

you know people come to some of my

classes you know I show them how to

weaponize the environment how to arm

themselves how to not get abducted I

meet people that have gone through those

experience and then they're basically

trying to work through some of the their

own issues by going through the training

that I get to meet people that are you

know people that I've only seen online

you know or seen in videos I I remember

meeting Royce Gracie in uh Harvard City

I heard of that guy he's a pretty

interesting character I remember seeing

him in a boot like VHS video and I told

them about it uh we were doing a class

uh out at uh uh Emerson knives it's a

it's a it's a Knife Company but the but

the Mr Emerson also has like a Jiu-Jitsu

gym there where Royce straightens out of

that's his uh that's his

space and you know they're teaching how

to defend against somebody trying to

stab you and I'm showing them all the

ways you can get around that and

fabricate and improvise and smuggle

things basically the the adversarial

side of that which is that's what I'm

known for the psychology and kind of the

the ways that people do that

and I remember him seeing some of the

stuff that I was doing and just being

like where you from Mexico me makes

sense you know somebody from Brazil you

know tipping the hat to somebody from

Mexico as far as him uh seeing the

violence and some of the uh the

mentality behind it so for people who

don't know ho Gracie is the legendary

martial artist that probably introduced

Brazilian jiu-jitsu to the American AUD

to the world through the process of UFC

and showing the effectiveness of it in

um in practice that a little skinny guy

can defeat a big aggressive guy so an

anakonda as a small Anaconda walking

into that uh ring with his family behind

wearing pajamas wearing pajamas and I

was like what is this guy wearing

pajamas for and then he would strangle

people with those pajamas uh I remember

seeing that and just having it I think

probably what a generation before had

with Bruce Lee I guess our my generation

was Roy walking into that uh walking

into that octagon and changing you know

paradigms seeing him in that gym um it's

also have a gun owner and shooter which

is interesting you know having a

beinging somebody like him who is you

know well- versed with the his hands

also be a man that has gone into the

realm of being well versed with with

Weaponry which is an aspect of of

martial arts and uh the martial way of

of thinking that you know some people

kind

of the purist will stick with one side

of it but he's he's obviously a warrior

in a lot of ways so just as a small

tangent so you're somebody that you

don't just look at unarmed combat you

look at the full spectrum of the the

chaos of combat that's outside of the

realm of Jiu-Jitsu and even just mix

martial arts unarmed armed with knives

and Beyond was was his mind open to the

the Fuller spectrum of violence yeah I

mean he was he was in the middle of this

class that we were doing where people

were basically focusing on both Ernest

Emerson who's uh famous for his knives

he's has a Knife Company he done knives

for NASA you know not only that but he's

also a very Avid martial art artist he

trained with a lot of Filipino martial

arts related to knives and stuff like

that but a different mindset you know a

defensive mindset trying to train people

how to defend against that and you have

Roy who's uh he's from Brazil I mean he

has some Street in him that's something

that you know those guys

those we say in

Mexico uh seeing the ways he would uh he

he stepped in there and and provided

some encouragement to the people there

as far as uh you know how people

sometimes focus on the uh

this is a system and this is a way but

there's other ways out there that might

negate or defeat the ways that you are

con concentrating on you know so kind of

get out of that bubble my whole kind of

speciality or what I focus on is mindset

and figuring out the software that some

of these people gain and gather

from if I need to arm myself you know

the easiest thing to manufacture in most

plac is a pointed object so I can take

that Crystal big pen that you're writing

on that uh Notepad with and uh using the

friction from the carpet I can turn it

into a hyperic needle that you can then

poke into somebody's neck what's the

process of doing that I can do it right

now if you want to no but can you can

you use your words for The Listener and

also cuz I'm terrified no I I I could

basically you can take the Fric the the

the Heat and friction created from this

carpet yes you can grab that pen in of

itself it will pierce flesh but it will

slow itself down because it has a few uh

angles on to on the tip oh you want to

wear down the angles so if you take that

tip off and you grabb it and grind it on

an angle on the carpet the heat will

actually turn it into a hypodermic

needle if you know what you're doing

hypodermic meaning like it's it

smoothens the entry it'll make a point

in an angle that will guide it its way

in through your flesh so you can

actually go through a torso with that if

you know what you're doing as a small

tangent you also gave me a

present could be one of the most epic

presents I've ever received you you give

it to Rogan uh can you explain what I'm

holding in my hands there's a guy online

coffin Tramp is his uh moniker uh it is

a G10 Rod G10 is a very strong material

basically capable they a lot of people

make actually G10 knives which are

basically non-magnetic non- feris

objects that can be utilized as a

stabbing Implement um the core of it

isn't uh isn't an actual pencil core

it's a G10 core and it's uh encased in

uh Oak heart Oak so that is capable

again of stabbing through a torso now

the the guy that made that uh is an

artisen you know it makes that it looks

like a pencil it's concealed in it in in

the nature of the object itself but that

small object is capable of being

introduced into a chest

cavity um you know uh all it takes is

about the half of your thumb or the

length of your thumb to stab into your

chest cavity and now your pericardium is

pierced and it's being full with fill of

blood or your whole heart is pierced

then you have a few minutes to live if

you're at a standing heart rate so this

is uh this this has the effectiveness of

a knife essentially it has the

effectiveness of a shank or or or or an

ice pick you know it's not going to cut

but it's going to make a hole where not

shouldn't be here the the pen is

literally mightier sword yeah well it's

it's this is really epic from like a

persp perspective of an

academic this this is this is a symbol

of both intelligence and violence I love

it and also the the current state of

affairs where people need to arm

themselves with things that are

concealed as far as their purpose in a

place where in a country or in a society

that limits their ability to arm

themselves so if you're going to a safe

place you're going to a place where no

weapons allowed which means a rich a

Target Rich environment if you're a

predator uh that's a sign of rebellion

let this be a a signal of everyone

should be terrified when you're around

me cuz even a pencil can murder you and

I intend to use this yeah nobody nobody

owns life but anybody that can hold a

frying pan owns death is a quote that I

heard once which is a beautiful one I'm

looking at you if anyone betrays me this

is the way to go can you given all you

experience in all the different ways and

you think about martial arts and

violence in Mexico and in the in the

world speaking of

hoist what is your approach to conflict

uh like a like a street fight what

advice would you give people in the full

spectrum of what a street altercation

might entail what is the best way to

approach it I think before you get there

you have to prepare you know so I one of

the first things I tell people is uh if

you don't have a basic t c training

class behind you you should reanalyze

your your life and your ability to

prepare dple C basically how to stop

somebody from bleeding out or dying from

a stab wound gunshot wound or any of

those types of wounds uh or an amputated

leg during an IID scenario anything you

would see in a Boston Marathon Marathon

type event or a Vegas shooting event

where people are getting shot stabbed

cut so understand how to help people how

to help yourself post you're no good you

don't want to be a you don't want to be

a detriment to the situation you want to

be an asset so build yourself up an

asset for in a situation like that

because you might be doing that on

yourself or on somebody else and also it

helps you understand uh what situations

are going to result in a lot of in a

difficult situation to deal with

afterwards yeah it also teaches you what

to stab and what to shoot if you're

thinking about it in a full and on all

the dimensions of it you know you know

there's there's all weapon all knowledge

can be weaponized and I think that's the

approach all people should should kind

of figure out for themselves when they

start getting ready or if they want to

take the responsibility of their own

safety in their hands so in a

self-defense situation there's a lot of

questions here but what what does one

stab there's the kateed arteries which

are used commonly in Jiu-Jitsu with

something to choke because they feed a

computer you know so there's a lot of

blood flowing through that required for

the successful operation of the computer

and not a lot of stuff is guarding the

outside world from your karate AR that's

a really weird design by the way it is

not a smart one doesn't even make sense

because with mammals they bite each

other's neck like why can't you have

more protection CU this the only like us

humans don't use their mouth to kill

each other but most mammals most

predators do it's like why the hell

don't we protect this we do have a

defensive mechanism and you you see it

sometimes when people are ambushed and

people try to open up each other's necks

from behind if you push somebody's neck

forward the kateed will actually lower

themselves and be encased in more flesh

and muscle if you pull ah head back not

so much so that's a way that at least I

think the evolutionary we' have a

defensive mechanism for that uh there's

a few videos out there of people's

getting their neck sewn back shut after

somebody pushed their head forward to

try and slice their necks and they

survived you know um so this is a viable

Target uh the heart is another one um

interesting about the thing about the

hearten people get alarmed when I talk

about this and show it in

classes uh again a lot of the classes I

do are for orientation and to for people

to recognize that behavior so a lot of

law enforcement comes to some of these

classes oh that's horrible that's how

somebody will kill somebody yeah this is

how people that know their thing their

shit will try and approach somebody and

stab you to death This Is How They would

do it uh there's a tendency to view what

we see in John Wick or view what we see

in in uh this martial arts Community

where they're you know slicing and

dicing people different myriads of ways

a lot of that is based on dueling based

cultures like the Filipino martial arts

or some of the uh Italian martial arts

out there where somebody's facing off

with somebody else with a similar weapon

and where both of us are agreeing to

basically get into a stabbing

competition that would make sense in

that scenario in that context but I've

never seen a lot of people actually get

into these uh one-on-one knife

altercations um

what we see now in a modern context when

it talks about

Weaponry uh is an ambush counter Ambush

based uh scenario where somebody pulls

out a knife during a a grappling

situation on the street or when somebody

turns a striking exchange of punch

punches into pull pulling out a cheap

gas station knife or a pen or uh a rock

from the ground or a handgun most modern

combatives when it comes to Weaponry

should be kind of based on the whole

aspect of Ambush and counter Ambush

there's a lot of people showing uh

valuable kind of material and coursework

on this out there um my whole approach

and my specific kind of Realm is in the

aspect of how people go from the process

of learning some of these things from

experiential stuff people that grow up

in rural rural places grow up on pig

farms that actually get the experiences

of processing a pig for example or

processing an animal those people will

have more skills Hunters those people

will have more skills with a knife if

they pick it up as a weapon then most of

the martial artists that I've seen kind

of approach some of these uh classes

where I go and have a a simulated torso

in the form of a pig hanging in a room

somewhere some of that has to do with

just

the the familiarity and the comfort of

just like the biology of a living

organism like that you if you cut off

certain things if you cut a certain

thing like it's just it's just a meat

vehicle the same thing you know the

medical training should come first you

know or if you don't have that be hunter

or go to a a Butchery class that will

teach you more about how to use a knife

on somebody else than anything you know

that'll that'll give you the experience

of Flesh uh most people you know I do

this example every now and then where I

have people bring in a a tactical knife

and they'll bring in a butter knife and

I ask them which will go through a torso

we have a pig there so it simulates a

torso pretty closely most people will

say n that butter knife's not going to

go through and it does you know it does

go go through it's uh thin enough strong

enough sturdy enough that it'll go

through um kitchen knife a cheap one

that cost 89 cents at uh at a Walmart

and a expensive $400 one you know and

the the cheap one will outperform the

expensive one the tip will snap off uh

during some of it yeah I have to say

that just as a small uh tangent I went

to a

farm and um just seeing the butchering

of me meat and so on uh and the

processing of meat and pigs and

cows oo that's uncomfortable yeah but I

think it also it's honest and and raw

and like that's something that probably

everyone should experience

regularly um CU it it's also humbling to

to to remind you like when I

um I had a dog Homer he in Newland that

was I was very close with and uh we lost

them and I I just remember I carried him

he's like 200 something pounds had to I

had to carry him I had to put him to

sleep and like one of the biggest

realizations is like oh this is just a

this is just a biological thing yeah

it's just and then to to realize that

this is just meat this is not and you

can cut it and then you if you bleed you

all of a sudden the life can disappear

from you and it's all gone it's like

holy shit there's this meat vehicle that

some people have referred to as Lex

it's I'm just a few stabbings away from

leaving yeah from leaving goodbye

there's a soul that just flies away yeah

it used to be that we had to hang around

you know people would come back from

Battle and we would hear things next to

the campfire as far as oh you stabbed

somebody here and this happens but now

we live in an age where you can you know

when I do a class I this is this is a a

stab to the heart and here's like five

videos of it happening live you know on

live leags or whatever and we can

deconstruct that not only that but what

weapon was used oh it was a gas station

folder it was a Pioneer Woman knife from

Walmart with flowers on the handle you

know whatever it was uh and people start

realizing that it doesn't take a

lot that it doesn't take a lot of

training because a lot of these people

are not high level assassins trained by

ninjas in the Hills or anything like

that they're people that you grew up

rurally or learn by seeing that behavior

others and when they start coming to the

realization that it's pretty easy to do

that and they start figuring out like

how do you counteract that well number

one learn the behavior yourself so you

can recognize it the whole aspect of

being a good counter Ambush team is to

be a best the best ambusher in the

planet so again the whole aspect of

moushi saying know your enemy know his

sword you know you figure that out as

far as learning that behavior you know

when you start seeing how some of these

stabbings occurred occur the first thing

you notice is that one of one of the

hands is always kind of out of the

picture or there's a lack of symmetry in

the people that are about to do

something horrible so when you see lack

of symmetry in the environment somebody

with their hands going backwards um

there's a crowd of people and some and a

and two or one individual is looking

counter the where everybody else is

looking or there's a hyper aware

individual in a crowd uh the hyper aware

are always usually out there to fuck

somebody over or are they're trying to

keep those Predators from fucking

somebody else over so

unless you step back and you put

yourself in the process of learning how

they learn and you become that potential

nightmare person it's hard to recognize

that in a in a crowd it feels like one

of the significant ways to win or as

Street Fighters to avoid it by sort of

sending pacifist signals in every way

meaning avoiding the situation whenever

there's like uh like a hypervigilant

people you just kind of avoid signaling

that you're one of the players to of

Interest yeah if we're talking about

counter Ambush at which point do you do

that versus shift to

the aggression yeah I think violence

should be always an option you know

everybody should have that option and

you need to be good at that option I

think uh I think I heard Jordan Peterson

talk about the fact that everybody needs

to be dangerous but keep that shit under

control you know yeah I think he was

referring to a different context but I

know

I know I'm I'm referring to the ability

of the little physical conflict there's

two cases that I saw of people just

utilizing social engineering to a

beautiful degree to deescalate shit

right one guy uh somewhere first off if

you're in a place where people are

grabbing your wife's ass or something

like that like what are you doing there

you know there's a load of things that

are wrong with everything that you're

doing in your life to be in that

environment but yeah let's say you're in

an in inescapable situation there was

this guy who was in a compromised

position uh somebody wanted to fight him

uh like legit kick his ass and he said

okay uh I'm let's go but I I just I need

to warn you that I have heepsy before we

outside and that masterful I was getting

my phone out to to film this you know

maybe and even I was just lowered my

phone to to to give him a slow clap that

was a beautiful move you know um and

then there was this other man uh there

was a there was a riot somewhere in uh

uh in inada the M the municipality of

inada and Baja they were protesting some

of the the people that pick those fields

down there part of a tribe called those

tiis very Hardy hardworking people but

nefarious people too they're they're

pretty they're pretty good at their

thing um there was a riot line they

couldn't break and this old man walks in

the middle of the riot line and yells

grenade and throws an avocado in the

middle of all the cops mhm and

all you broke that ride line with an

avocado uh that could have gone wrong in

so many ways but it didn't I don't know

to me like it's there's small lessons

there there is a case to be made about

social engineering about learning about

Behavior about learning how to lie and

how to kind of uh move your way or

navigate your way around situations like

that small things like bartering knowing

how to bribe people in Conflict zones is

the thing that I I show when I talk

about or train people to work in hostile

environments deescalation you know

specifically kind of figuring out what

is a value in the environment uh what

things you shouldn't be doing in an

environment that might be considered

disrespectful or out of place you know

people have a tendency that that didn't

grow up in places that are violent to

make continuous eye contact with

somebody that might be a issue or

smiling when there's nothing to smile

about I think uh you know uh there's a

picture I saw somewhere of Russians

taking a a portrait and there's

Americans there and the Americans are

smiling but the Russians aren't yeah

because what is there to smile about

which is true and of course it's not as

simple as smile or not smile there's

subtlety to it like you said eye contact

is a super interesting one cuz um I

found in my in my own life like not

making eye contact is other people would

be joking but it's a really powerful way

to deescalate and there's such a

fascinating thing though cuz you could

talk talk about drunk fights that are

just uh that are harmless but I feel

like the same Dynamic applies to the

most violent conflict including Wars I

feel like ego is part of this so to me

the question of conflict whether it's a

street fighter anything else is the

calculus of are you willing to take an

owl yeah uh in terms of psychology

somebody grabs your wife's ass you

mentioned

boy if you let that happen you go home

you're going to have to pay the price of

you were the person who didn't defend

you like in your relationship you didn't

defend your wife's honor yeah you're

going to psychologically pay that price

yourself and depending on your wife she

might secretly also lose a little bit of

respect for you yeah now how do you play

that calculus cuz now we see the war in

Ukraine I would say there is elements of

similar POS uring in the United States

in in Europe in Ukraine Russia China

leadership at a at a geopolitics it's

still somebody grabs somebody's ass and

you're not backing down so to take those

losses and basically just posture you

know lower your head and live to fight

another day type situation the thing

with modern violence is you know the

access to Weaponry uh you know and I

mean again nobody owns life but anybody

can hold the fr frying pan can know

death I've seen people um you know get

double leg taked down somebody on the

ground it's a different thing doing in

the mats versus concrete that's a good

way to kill somebody you know the most

prolific impact weapon on the planet is

the planet itself you can see various

videos of people online where they fall

and they hit their head or somebody hits

their head and they go into you know the

stretched out fit basically uh and that

might not kill you then but it'll kill

you that night or the second night you

don't get checked out you know people

bleed out and internally you get an

edema again the whole aspect of me

showing how some of these things not

only some of these methodologies and

some how people prepare for violence and

how people experience violence how they

make their weapons how people fight in

the streets and stuff like that is to

recognize that behavior from the

Inception you know uh there's a video I

show where there a bunch of Street kids

in Rio de Janeiro I think it's during

the Olympics where they're snatching

chains and cell phones from people mhm

and it's a fun video you know see it and

it's uh the first thing you learn about

it is how they target people now who are

they going after there's a bunch of

people there why are they going after

that specific

person and you start learning about

profiling and how they identify victim

mentality you know or the Vic the

perfect victim you know lack of

awareness they keep on a straight line

avoidance avoidance of eye contact if

they're you know doing something

nefarious or wrong uh and how they pick

who they're going to go after you know

the small people the the women you know

the the even some of the men and they

separate the men that they're perfect

victims versus the men that's is going

to turn around punch them in the face

you know what are they looking for you

know well first off you know you you

notice that the the men that are in that

environment that look at them and are

aware of their presence the hyper aware

or the ones that are not good to Target

so that's the first lesson there so it's

probably a good idea not only to be

hyper aware but to recognize that hyper

awareness in others if I want to

separate myself from the victim crowd

another thing you notice is these are

kids going after some grown adults and

some of these grown adult men are with

women and you see them you know kind of

getting outside of the grasp of the the

kids that are trying to rip their chains

off their neck or their cell phones and

they have no consideration for the women

around them uh you see other men that

are with women and you see them grab the

women and put them behind them and

immediately they'll say this this is the

wrong one let me move off to the next

one so that that small little lesson in

that in those videos will show you first

how these kids are growing up tar to to

profile and Target who the perfect

victims are that's a school for them and

that is an adversarial school we should

look at that school and apply it to

ourselves so in general you think

conflict ultimately the people that are

doing conflict are looking for for

weakness I mean they're looking for

opportunity opportunistic that's the

Predators that's what they do they look

for an opportunity you know uh from

jumping down from a tree and and and

getting the G the slowest gazelle to uh

looking for the opportune moment to

pounce on something that's probably big

but the risk is worth it I feel like

there's uh several motivations but but

isn't isn't there

also a a power hierarchy motivation as

well yeah like you there's something

about the big guy that tempts you to

send message especially with gangs

aren't they send aren't they constantly

uh sort of trying to signal that they're

the alpha yeah I mean there I mean

there's a different situations you could

be you could be facing a sociopathic a

predator who is looking for something in

you that you are the resource that

they're looking after maybe it's a woman

you know it could be a group of people

that don't like the fact that you have a

specific uh nationality uh or your Pass

Support is stamped in a specific way or

that you pray to whatever God all these

have factor in uh but in the end they

all do the same thing they look for an

advantageous position if I were to

Target you I would put you in between

that wall and you know me so you have

two Avenues of exits and I will step on

one of your feet to keep that Avenue

closed so you have to go this way so

this is where my knife is going to be

you see that behavior

mirrored everywhere in the world first

off you look for advantages right if

it's something that's unavoidable like

you're in between me and my ability to

go home or you're in between me and my

ability to feed my family or you're in

between me and my ability to posture to

the people that are behind me the young

guys that I'm in charge I will do

everything in my power to end you

right the motivations are not my realm

but the ways they do it are are you know

and the basically the advantage part of

it so desperation is uh

is dangerous it's a dangerous school

when I say dangerous school I mean the

most dangerous people usually come from

those desperate environments you know

you you can have uh people in Coronado

holding on to logs in the ocean and go

through this millions of dollars worth

of training and just be professional

Killers uh for the government and just

be these incredible human

beings and then there's a kid that will

walk up to one of them when he's off you

know and uh put ice pick right into his

chest uh when he's least expecting it

and that doesn't mean that one is

superior than the other it just means

that there are more there's more than

one way to become that you know

teenagers terrify me it feels like the

intensity of

desperation like the capacity of a

teenager like 16 177 to be desperate and

also not have the matured understanding

of ethics of the world like they have

this intensity of

feeling uh that I unlike anything else

they don't have a volume knob to that so

it's like a it's like a garden hose

without an nozzle on it so you can

regulate it they haven't developed that

they haven't learned that maybe from

somebody else or you used to be Warrior

cult cultures you would you would be

Apprentice under somebody or you would

learn some of these things from other

people even some gang modern gangs have

a little bit of that but if you're not

and you're just this kid that's been

playing Call of Duty uh all of his life

or has been witnessing violence and in

media and there's

no sense of it's probably a bad idea to

go off and do this because all these

repercussions I could see how that could

be a danger to society and some of the

volume knobs some of the countermeasures

to people exploding on somebody else

with

a with a weapon you know that you see

videos constantly online that remember

seeing this one of these two uh teenage

girls somewhere in the US and one of

them just

there's a fight there's a hair pulling

competition and all of a sudden one of

them takes out a knife and it just

happens like that and it's just pure and

restrained downward stabbing you know

you're like wait where does that come

from well uh she's from an environment

where she saw that as an option she

didn't see the repercussions of it and

she found herself in a place where she

thought that was the only viable option

pulling out a weapon and that's I think

that's that's the dangerous part of it

so how do you prepare uh to win those

kinds of situations to escape those

kinds of

situations like you said it's training

it's exposing your mind I always tell

people like if if you don't have a

combative base you don't have a Bas uh

boxing jiujitsu and that that gives you

what like an awareness of your body kind

of thing it gives you an awareness of

your body give you a spatial awareness

if somebody if you C if you can't see

the points with your peripheral vision

if you can't see the points of

somebody's feet in your peripheral

vision they are in range to stab you in

the heart if they wanted to and that's

something you learn from boxing that you

learn from Jiu-Jitsu you learn from a

bunch of combat Arts where you're you

learn about distance and angling people

that comes from this experience that you

have you know again a lot of these

things were just horse play when we're

growing up in some cultures or you know

Rough and Tumble with your brother since

she like that but we're some of us are

growing up in single kid homes now and

we don't get that we were missing that

and if you don't have it then you find

it in the you find it in a Jiu-Jitsu gym

you find it in a boxing gym you have it

you find it in a Thai boxing gym you

find it in places where they specialize

in focusing on certain aspects of this

whole combative hall right used to be

before UFC you know we the Kung Fu man

you know that K Fu guy that's just

Street Lethal shit you you can't use it

and the sporting you can't show you this

because it'll kill you now we pretty

much know that most of that was you know

Flights of Fancy or BS you know it pains

me too man I wanted to learn some of the

deach single Punchy and killing

technique you know I remember those

books but that's just not still on the

lookout for that yeah maybe somewhere I

don't know you know maybe if you put a

pen in your hand that that might turn

into that but that's that's the only way

that's the only way right but uh a lot

of these myths are kind of like faded

away and now you see people that have

different combed BAS is combining them

all and becoming a fighter

now that's UFC fight two people fighting

each other is one thing you know you

being in the middle of the Portland R

and a bunch of state troopers throwing

gas at Riders and then Riders themselves

fighting each other and you finding

yourself in the middle of that that's a

completely different thing and if you

think you're going to you know go on go

on the ground and get in a guard with a

with a with a guy swinging around a a

shovel a piece of shovel handle right as

tear gas is going on because you got uh

stopped there and your car was you know

windows were broken and your family's in

the back seat you know that is a

different situation

so get medical uh learning how learning

about Weaponry you know uh I I

personally don't really like fighting on

the ground but that's why I forced

myself to go to train with different

people out there you know uh on the

ground you jitu catch wrestling so top

and bottom neither you don't like either

I I personally I like being in a car and

running everybody over that would be

great you know if I could or driving

really far away or um I had this I had

this experience in Utah uh some some

friends of mine military uh some of your

best Shooters some of the best Shooters

in the US you know coming from the uh

the Marine Core were showing were

showing me how they you know would shoot

something from really far away and I was

like H you don't even have to be in the

same

vicinity the scope of violence how far

you can be from it or how close you

could be from it just wait till we get

to see what we can do in the Cyber

attack world we can destroy your whole

well-being your whole life your identity

that's another aspect of it too

financial and then uh figure out where

you live in terms of Ambush yeah

figuring out everything about you such

that hurting you is easy I have a class

where we specifically de work on social

engineering and kind of how how how you

can go about something that you know a

micro level uh we I do a class with a

guy named Matt fidler who does a

basically he's one of the Premier

experts on how to get into and bypass

locks

basically uh you'll we he'll show you

how to open up every single or bypass

every single commercial lock available

in the United States like like he'll

spread it out it'll open up everything

and that's like right and my part in his

class is I talk about how you can pull

some of that off in a public space and

not get caught or how you would employ

some of these things in a context where

it's like useful for law enforcement for

the military stuff like that and uh so

we have this exercise in a public space

where there's a bunch of PAAD locks in

the environment right and they we paint

them pink so people know it's our

padlocks and we're not breaking into

anybody else's padlocks if we get

approached and asked about it but I

asked the students like so you have to

gather all these padlocks from this

public space you know so how would you

do it so a lot of them are trying to

pick them you know they're like very

suspiciously picking them and stuff like

that they you get caught and it's a

whole situation but the Smart Ones Will

basically develop a social media

campaign related to the bad loocks right

um a a beautiful a beautiful example of

this and this actually happened here in

Texas I did a class out in uh Dallas we

put the padlocks all over this public

mall and the students basically came up

with a breast cancer awareness campaign

online that they they made fake uh well

they made flyers for it they did the

social media page on a campaign they

they did this email chain so when they

went there people were expecting them MH

so they normalized the behavior through

social media and they were walking

around bull Cutters in the middle of a

mall cutting these things

off that's a beautiful that's a

beautiful solution to a complex problem

of that nature and again we the

weaponizing part of it anything can be

all knowledge can be weaponized and it's

if you focus on getting in a street

fight with somebody with your fist or a

knife you know you're missing out on the

whole complexity of violence and and the

way that it's now being

utilized so in terms of breaking out

locks and restraints and captivity let's

talk about a dark topic that you're one

of the world experts in kidnapping so

you teach courses on Conor kidnapping

and terrorism I read an estimate that

criminal gangs get $500 million a year

in Ransom payments from kidnapping so

just at a high level what is kidnapping

who does it and why what are some

insights that can help uh us understand

what is this problem in the world it

happens in different ways in different

parts of the world I mean I just sent

off a a group of people that uh trained

some of the ukrainians uh and some of

the stuff that they were show they were

showing them was some of the counter

custody stuff that I showed them uh for

the Mind named Vince went out there was

showing them some of the aspects of how

to utilize things like uh Kevlar cordage

and how to infuse it in their uniform so

if they get uh zip tied to cut them open

it's a war setting so it's talks about

uh being captive in a war zone but the

information or the methodology actually

comes from Mexico that methodology as

far as how I learned it in terms of how

to escape from restraint and stuff like

that so in Mexico you have abductions

happening where uh cartels uh who hold

uh control over a specific uh place or

Zone um are having a hard time uh with

financial situations as far as uh maybe

they're not making enough money to pay

everybody off so they let them freelance

basically and a lot of way some of these

criminal groups freelance or some of

these groups actually professionalizing

to abduct businessmen abduct the sons of

business bus men or people that have

money to ask for ransoms for them

basically and uh they've taken you know

captivity and and abduction to like an

art form in places like Mexico and has a

history all over the world but uh

specifically my experience with it with

it was going to uh cartel safe houses

that turned into holding places you

would see you know homemade prison cells

and stuff like that uh and people being

held in captivity for months if not

years as they were milking their family

for everything they owned so it turns

out into a business they're not actually

even interested in hurting the people no

physically they're interested in hurting

them uh financially financially and also

this if they get hurt they're hurt for a

purpose which is to make their family

pay up faster or more uh some of the

abduction groups that I've seen out

there professional ones in Mexico

basically make it a living to Target

people that have abduction insurance or

that work for companies that have good

abduction insurance so it's it's it's

almost like an ATM for them you know

it's like ah here again H so there's

some of that going on uh some not so

much uh some abductions are Express I

mean I'll grab you with a uh in guno

take you to an ATM you empty it out and

then you're on your way that's an

Express kidnapping that might not be

worth you doing any insane you know you

just go with the

Motions um but some people do get picked

up you know uh I have trained people

with prior experiences of abductions in

Mexico and here in the United States

people that have spent some time in

captivity with loved ones here like

ex-boyfriends or boyfriends that tie

them up and beat the shit out of them

and the restraints they utilize are zip

ties and handcuffs some sometimes or

duct tape or their own clothing things

of this nature basically what somebody's

looking for when they tie anybody up is

to convince you that they are in control

that they are God and that any hope of

you releasing those restraints or

getting out of that situation is

hopeless from a cartel group picking you

up in the middle of a dirt road

somewhere in Cancun to uh ex-boyfriend

showing up at your house and tying you

up till you agree to get back with them

that's the same thing uh and some of the

restraints that are being utilized uh

come from different places I mean I

remember an instructor I had way back

when told me that the proliferation of

zip ties as a restraint in criminal

abductions came up after the movie Heat

came out because everybody wanted to be

Robert Ino zip tying people in the bank

robbery at the end of the movie

criminals saw that and it became like

thing hilarious can you actually speak

to the is it possible to systematically

learn how to escape restraints like

handcuffs rope zip ties the best at it

or not the military they not see or

program people they are criminals I

learn how to get out of hand us from a

15-year-old who was in charge of meth

sales and in La revolution in Tijuana is

there a system to it I mean it's not

specifically a system it's uh usually

what they what happens is they'll buy a

set of handcuffs and they will mess

around with them in a playing feature so

one thing I do in a class is first off

I'm honest about the fact that some you

know all restraints are temporary even

marriage this is this like wait can we

just pause in the Deep philosophical

you're like Moto Musashi with that

statements all all restraints are

temporary even marriage uh I'll just I

just I just like adding that one in

there for last because this is a dark

subject every cage can be escaped all

restraints are temporary you you either

free yourselves from the restraints

somebody else takes them off or you die

and your body rots her way around them

you know those are the options um and I

like that first option myself the second

option is pretty cool if you can

convince somebody to do that for you uh

but that first option is an interesting

one you have to deconstruct restraints

not all restraints are made the same uh

you can train to get out of handcuffs

here in the US and you know focus on a

pair of Smith and Weston handcuffs which

are kind of of the most common brand of

handcuffs here but if you find yourself

in DET in detention somewhere in Russia

the handcuffs out there are completely

different you know the key way is

different the mechanism is different but

some of the same ways of bypassing those

mechanisms are let me write this down so

in Russia what kind are they using they

to travel in there I need this

information I'll send you a specific

model and details on how to get out of

those uh uh but basically just asking

for a friend I'm sorry yeah so what I do

is I I take a I take a pair of smiing

Weston handcuffs I put them in the

middle of a of three people in the in a

class I spread them out and I have them

place them on each other in a just

playing manner I have hand I have

handcuff ke there and I have a pair of

Bowl Cutters there in case somebody gets

stuck does something stupid so they they

play with each other as far as putting

them on randomly I show them how to put

him on appropriately and then I show

them a handcuff key and a handcuff key

will open up handcuffs interestingly

enough uh but the thing about a handcuff

key is it's not made to be used by the

person that is in those handcuffs

so that's the first lesson there if you

have a handcuff key handcuff keys are

the most used tool to open up handcuffs

in custody situations you know both

criminals escaping from the police to

people escaping from criminals just the

standard hidden handcuff key so I showed

them how to modify that handcuff key so

it's more optimal to use on yourself

with just basic garbage that you can

find piece of wire a zip type piece

basically how to put a leverage arm on

the Handcuff key so you can actually

spin it in the keyway behind your back

or in front of you I'm trying to think I

don't think I've ever been in handcuff

uh appropriate way to handcuff

somebody's Palms out how much

restriction is there in terms of there's

a lot if it's a is a hinge handcuff

there's a lot of restriction with no CH

can you reach back you could try and

reach back or you can basically put

yourself in a in a not compromised

position and feed the most of your palm

meat into the Handcuff way so when they

shut it shut it on you you have more

space to work with so you can spin your

hand we call it a passive resistance um

again you go through a process with them

where you deconstruct how people are

handcuffed uh handcuff keys and how to

modify handcuff key to be able to use on

yourself and these all of these things

they're constructing as we go so they

basically hey what's a grinding surface

well there's concrete outside so they

grind an angle on the key so you can get

a key not to go straight into the keywa

but you can get it into the key we at an

angle for example it's something it's

something that is out there as far as a

method you can't spin a key behind your

back because it's small it's designed to

be used by somebody else opening those

handcuffs on you so you put an arm on it

so you can leverage our arm so you can

spin it behind your

back you learn how to put yourself in

not a compromised position if somebody

asks you for your handcuff your hands so

so they could be cuffed you don't do

this you know you do that or you put

yourself in a Gable grip behind your

back which is a a pretty strong grip and

it's hard to spread those hands apart

it's also something that people go into

automatically when they're in fear so

all of these things are advantageous for

you and uh you learn how not only people

get restrained but you see videos of

them because I show a bunch of abduction

actually happening

live again the best thing is avoidance

but specifically when you work around

restraints is number one learn how some

of these restraints work number two is

learning how some of the

readymade tools to get out of the

restraints look like function and number

three which is the advanced level is

learn how to construct all these things

yourself which is I think that is the

that is the best thing you can show

somebody for handcuffs I just use a

standard pair of handcuffs and then we

deconstruct other very specialized

handcuffs that might be out there and

you show them if you're going to travel

somewhere learn what restraints are

commonly in the available in the

environment somebody going to North

subaran Africa

ining a plastic handcuff key is that's

going to be useless out there because

there's not going to be standard

handcuffs out there that would

be open with that type of key out there

you're probably going to be tied up with

a chain and a padlock of some sort maybe

a 40 mm Chinese padlock with a plastic

core that you can open with a a lighter

if you can burn the core melt the core

open or uh if you can leverage that open

that's a pretty easy thing to open or a

bobby pin you could reach all the way in

the back and open the latch what about

rope

uh that common yeah it is common uh this

is one of my favorite things for

rope something I usually carry and some

places it's another gift for you if you

want it's a ceramic razor blade nice is

it capable of

cutting nice right small uh you can put

it behind a label I've seen some

students put the leis label on there and

just so it back on um it is non magnetic

non FIS so in and out of uh you know

that type of situation you can get in it

and it's something you can have with you

everywhere this is a pretty fancy one or

you can just grab a simple razor blade

and actually learning how to use or

leverage a razor blade between your

palms and know how to go up and down

with it to be able to cut yourself out

of course that's just practice to do

that well it's practice and it's also

exposure to just this is a possibility

this is how you could hide it again the

whole smuggling aspect comes from a

criminal uh a criminal mindset type

setting so how how things are hidden

where they're hidden and when I talk

about concealing objects of this nature

it's usually comes from smuggling you

know the fact that I have something in a

notebook comes from heroin

smuggling if you're not looking at the

school of criminality you're you're

missing out on a big part of the uh

equation so for people who want to learn

about this do do you teach courses on

this do do you know what's the what's

the rec how do you get in touch with you

or learn from you do you have stuff

online or is it only in person so I have

some stuff on my patreon uh specifically

I have a patreon where I share a lot of

the online material I basically a bunch

of this is my notebook I have a bunch of

stuff that I I just met somebody in

Philadelphia that showed me a pretty

unique way of utilizing a box cutter as

a weapon so I wrote some of that down I

filmed some of it um and it's not for

any other reason I'm not uh trying to

create Danger people out there it's like

hey look at this this is something

that's out there right um so a lot of

that information some of those notes and

stuff like that I keep on my patreon I

used to share it openly on Facebook and

Instagram but that uh that has not uh

been possible anymore well I'm a member

of your patreon and recommend people

also have philosophy you're you're

you're the you're the uh the Mexican

mamoto

Masashi uh so it's not just these skills

it's also the philos around it like I

got that book that book of five rings

before I went into training like I took

that with me through training the whole

aspect of you know go to places uh

frightening to the common brand of men

you know be put in jail and extricate

yourself with your own wisdom I think he

was speaking about experiencing

experience you know the whole Warriors

Journey the heroes journey of going out

there and actually

risking um I think that's a pretty big

basis and aspect of what the work I do

and showing some of these things there's

a tendency see to people say hey I'm

afraid to go to Mexico uh what do I need

to know like well if you're afraid to go

to Mexico go to Mexico um I mean I was

in Detroit I was pretty afraid when I

was in Detroit in some parts of Detroit

and uh the Southside Chicago um but uh I

don't want to be dictated where I can go

and where I can't go because of safety I

want to take responsibility for that

myself and figure out ways of being more

capable and an asset to the people

around me and

myself and that comes through experience

um and people want to risk getting a

shoulder injury rolling in Jiu-Jitsu or

don't want to risk getting a bloody nose

and boxing but that is the way well

there's some aspect to fitting in you

quote Kor Hanzo on imitation the most

important thing you should keep in mind

when you go on a Shinobi mission is to

imitate well the language of the target

Province and the ways of the local

people this includes their appearances

the way of wearing clothes the way of

shaving their head the way of making up

their hair the way of making up a sword

or short Sword and the way of refinement

and luxury so how do you fit into some

of those places so you know Mexico but a

person like me that doesn't know

anything about Mexico and say I'm

interviewing somebody in a leadership

position in a dra cartel yeah how

quickly do you learn how to fit in I

mean it's not about fitting in it's

about coming up with a narrative for

yourself with that book is talking

that's a that's a quote from the book

called a show ninky which is like a an

actual legit ninja manual from like the

1500s or something like that um and uh

they're they're not talking about

blending in they're talking about

creating a narrative or a lie to your

appearance and your behavior and your

knowledge base that's what they're

talking about so I would say first if

you're going to go to a place like that

first off learn what is common there

what type of common restraints might be

placed on you what criminal group groups

work out there what type of guns they

have not only what type of guns they

have but go to the gun range in Vegas

and learn how to f some of these

Firearms yourself so you know how to

load them in case you run into a bad

situation how they tie the sword you how

they how they wear their short swords

could equate to how you know if you run

into some issues also it would give you

a good idea how many how many rounds

those hold so you can run at the right

moment I like how you focus in on the on

the tools of violence but there's also

the the social engineering deescalation

right yeah so if you are in an

environment like that and you are

carrying around a camera that might be

an issue or the opposite not be an issue

well if you're asked like who are you

with I'm with the news organization or

am I with a Christian Aid group here

yeah and if you are with a Christian Aid

group it's probably a good idea to learn

some of the Bible right if you like if

you want a quick way of having a

somebody out there try and stop talking

to you you just start talking about

Jesus in the middle of a a little cartel

territory when they approach you and

take out the Bible that that'll quickly

deescalate so what I usually prefer to

do is I find somebody from the New York

Times And The Wall Street Journal and

beat them up in front of the just to

send a signal that I'm not a journalist

and I too don't like journalists that

could that could be that could be a way

but uh to send a message I think a lot

of us miss the fact that we are capable

of taking control of our own narrative

and what we communicate to people around

us I can show up here uh drinking a

Monster energy drink dumping It On The

Ground scratching you know what then

just sit down and just be a rude

motherfucker that's not who I am but I

can do that and you will believe me if I

am good at it some of us miss uh some of

us don't know this aspect because it's

something we consider predatory or

something that is wrong or negative or

bad yeah and some of these aspects are

actually you know they're pretty useful

um I learned most of my trade craft and

skillcraft from panhandlers and street

performers and when I had some training

related to social engineering those were

the people that I learned from uh I

remember we were doing surveillance and

there was a guy there that showed us how

to do surveillance you know on the

street and he said if you can find a way

for somebody to smell you before they

see you you'll become invisible and I

was like that's bullshit if you can find

a way of somebody smelling you before

they see you become invisible I didn't

understand what that

meant so we went on a three-day Bender

didn't take a shower smell like shit no

deodorant you know you smell like a

homeless person you look like a homeless

person and you approach somebody asking

for the time and they smell you before

they see you and you are not there

you're not a human you don't exist

exist so that was a pretty valuable

lesson that I got there yeah so that

that's interesting but like I have this

belief it has to do with the way I

operate in this world I suppose but if

you come off as a person legitimately I

guess you could fake it but I I think it

it just feels like you can be extremely

good possibly the best in the

world if you practice it your whole life

at being you you yeah at being authent

being at showing like you have nothing

to hide and a True Believer is what I A

True Believer so like yes you can come

up with a fake narrative but then what I

mean is like live that narrative your

whole life

then like I yeah I understand and then

never falter from that like you are this

person that's what I'm trying to I have

nothing to hide I I consider I consider

that a True Believer and yeah that is a

unique person when you meet them and

they are out there there are people that

will fucking walk into places this is

who I am I don't give a fuck this is who

I am if you don't trust me well shoot me

fuck it um this is my honesty and if you

don't trust me well look at all these

people that I've interacted with in the

past and you can ask them about it or

you can see my effects on other people

that's going to be my presentation card

and so the way you said it now is using

words and it's blunt usually somebody's

blunt like that like I'm a no bullshit

person that means they're not that means

they're are full of shit actually but

you do that through I mean I'm saying

I'm verbalizing your behavior you know

just walking somewhere uh you know let's

say you're going to interview somebody

very dangerous down there and you walk

into a room without

worry that is that is a presentation to

you you know that's a pretty in pretty

interesting introduction um you know

you're not a threat because you don't

consider yourself a threat and you're

walking in there with the confidence

that you don't consider yourself a a

threat which is an interesting way of

going about it uh my life experiences

have been different um I was in

programmed that way from an early age

and uh it's hard to for me to go into

that line although more and more as I

get older and as I learn more about the

world and I've failed a few more times I

can understand or more cognizant of the

fact

that you don't really have to try that

much if you if you believe in your in in

yourself and who you are if you know

yourself that's I think that is at the

core of it if you know yourself enough

to to be able to to kind of communicate

that to people around you and you're not

hiding from yourself from the world your

flaws too that was the other thing you

spoke to that is probably aspiring to

others is being honest about your flaws

about your weaknesses as a human being

you can't pick pocket a naked man and

right if you if you can if you know how

to be naked and again I'm not there I

think I'm I'm working towards that just

by you know openly going through shit

and uh showing people not telling them

is show me don't tell me is another

valuable lesson that I got long ago um I

I travel across the country and I don't

not only get to show people what I know

how to do but I I I I give examples of

it through things that I do out there

and uh I say this a lot you know when I

travel out there I'm never alone you

know there's couches out there waiting

for me you know there's uh there's homes

that I can get go go and stay at and

friends that I have out there that I

have never even met but that's been

about me not only woring some of those

mistakes and and past failures on my

sleeve but also turning them into

lessons for people and just telling

people the fact that you know I know how

to do all this weird stuff you know and

I show people how to do it yeah but

here's a bunch of weird memes that are

very humorous about my culture and about

being through going through therapy and

this is me doing something Goofy and

this is me being an idiot in front of

all you guys as well you know this is me

being the fool I think that uh is

another aspect of it I love that as part

of that Journey you made enemies with

the rodeo clown and made up with him

afterwards oh we're still we're still

we're in a very toxic relationship you

know he knows who he is he's probably

out there listening he's uh love and

hate we we we we stopped talking to each

other for months and then you know just

send a thck message of some sort and

just you know we're back at it you know

back yeah love expressed through anger I

love it it's therapeutic you you have

both very interesting career paths if we

can just jump back to in a really

interesting topic that I wanted to

mention um on Narco

cultism what are Narco Cults what's the

relationship between you kind of

mentioned religion a little bit yeah

what's the relationship between

religious culture and drug culture first

off Mexico is one of the most Catholic

countries on the planet if not the most

Catholic country on the planet not only

that it is a country that has

a root in spirituality through its in in

ethnic uh

culture

that other other parts of the world got

most of that taken away and or

suppressed or killed or taken away um

when the uh Spanish came to Mexico they

were a product of a recently

liberated group of people they just got

done being invaded by the Moors

basically and they brought with them the

image of La

Guadalupe the Virgin of Guadalupe and

heran Cortez's vision of that her

version of that was a lady holding a

crystal

scepter baby Jesus and standing on a

crescent moon that's what that's what he

brought with him to the

Americas and uh when the conquest

happened you know a lot of people say

yeah the Spanish came and conquested the

me the the the astec

Empire the enemies of the astec Allied

themselves with the Spanish and they

took took them down that's what happened

and then the rest was famine and

sickness that's what killed most of them

they realized that it was going to be

hard to suppress some of the spiritual

practices in Mexico so they decided to M

them with Catholic

iconography so you see these uh this

cult to uh toen which is like a

fertility variant of a mother goddess in

atic culture and they turn her into Lupe

which is the icon that a lot of uh

Mexicans venerate as the laian the

Virgin um but in her she conceals

cultural elements from the past she has

a black sash across her stomach which

means she's pregnant something common in

the atic uh culture in the mahika

culture she's standing on a cherub that

has Eagle wings that is a war god that's

the symbol of the war god down there she

has stars on her which is a veil of

certain stars that are related to some

of the spiritual practice from

before basically they hid these things

in in in that in that uh setting now you

skip

forward you know hundreds of years and

you start seeing things like uh malverde

who was a bandit that lived in caloa way

back in the day he would Rob Rich

Farmers that would go through the uh the

countryside one time he was almost

caught and he was shot and injured and

he was wanted by the government so he

told told one of his friends

to tell them where he was and to give

the money the reward money to the town's

people so we did that uh the he was hung

from a tree and the the order was not to

bury him just to let his body rot and

his body R rotted away until it fell on

the ground

bones and each of the towns people would

go over and put a rock on top of his

corpse until it became a pile of rocks

and then he started granting miracles

so again this whole aspect of these

criminals becoming

Saints uh and also a middle finger from

the downward local populace to the uh

the church in a way because he's not a

recognized saint but he has a an altar

and people venerate

that then you have cartels that have a

spiritual practice or spirituality

behind what they do which is part of

their culture but is also like a tool

they use

to ingratiate themselves with the local

populace or the or the population around

them uh they're icon icons of power and

sometimes of uh almost a symbol of

rebellion uh you see El Chapo's son when

he was arrested had a santono ATA on his

chest which is a it's a holy kid of

ATA his Spanish Legend during the morish

conquest uh they said that a a statue of

that Saint would go around and feed some

of the hungry you you know that was the

legend and he's a he's a saint of the p

p persecuted so the fact that when he

was arrested he was you see him with

that wearing wearing that and then he

was liberated is a miracle in of

itself so it's proof that that works you

see that that was you can find one of

those scapol adios anywhere in Mexico

that was the most highly sold one um so

you see them utilizing some of these

aspects uh in in their own belief system

to as a symbol or as icon iconography

basically for some of the things they do

then you go into some of other aspects

of it that are out there like Santa mu

which is actually a faith that I grew up

in Mexico has a weird weird relationship

to death we have parties at the cemetery

on Day of the Dead We I just went

through one you know recently this this

is uh November November the

2nd uh so we celebrate our dead and we

celebrate death in a way that I don't

think a lot of cultures out there do so

it's a joyful occasion it is a

celebration yeah my 8-year-old put two

beers on an altar one for my mom one for

my brother she bought a Snickers bar for

my mom and a a a bag of pops for my

brother uh flower petals and marry gold

and pictures of them on an altar at

that's amazing what kind of

beer teat Roa for my mother because

she's you know she was Hardcore and uh

they got the light from my brother you

know he was a more of a endurance

drinker

um and it's also for me yeah the

relationship to death down there is

different uh so there's an icon in

Mexico it's actually one of the fastest

growing uh alternative spiritual

practices in Mexico and not only in

Mexico but here in the US I've I've been

to Santa Mora temples across the country

I found one in Connecticut out of all

places how I grew up with it or I saw it

is uh we would we my family was

guadalupanos we were we were uh Catholic

and we venerated the V Virgin of

Guadalupe specifically the icon of the

Virgin of Guadalupe but every now and

then there were winks and nods to a

skeletal Saint in in in family practices

and even when I went to work uh the the

guy the older guys that were I was

working with would tell me like hey we

got to go ask uh ask for protection so

they would drive me over to the church

and I thought it was going to the

cathedral and then we made a left turn

and it wasn't the cathedral it was the

market next to the cathedral in Tijuana

and in the little corner there was a big

uh Santa mu Reaper Refugee and then I

knew why I had to bring a bottle tequila

I was like why am I bringing a bottle

tequila to the church it was for her for

death

La it was partly

hazing and also they did believe that

they were basically imbued with the

being agents of death in a way so it was

like a cultural thing as well something

that they they wore on them as not only

protection but as also like a Sam like a

samurai would wear this death

iconography on them or

how uh the mai would do uh Haka dances

you know to some of these guys in their

kind of warrior culture that they were

growing up with or trying to inew on us

the young guys

uh they would um take us there and they

would en viw US with iconography of sant

Mar to be like a psychological thing so

that gives you strength and meaning in

the face of struggle like in the in the

face of difficulties in life I think uh

you know you closeness to death and

having a relationship to death in the

form of a symbolic representation of it

like Santa Mar or an icon like that

makes it not as scary I guess or not not

only that but it's also something that

the other side the en me the cartel's

groups they would venerate it as well so

when they would see it on you it was

almost debilitating to them they were

like oh are you guys cops are you guys

who are you why are you wearing that uh

so there was an aspect of that to it um

a momental mi my type thing where you'll

remember death you know type thing

there's some aspect in which you don't

want to mess with the person who

meditates on death there was some of

that

yeah there was a saying I I think they

probably took it from a movie or

something like that but I don't know

where they got it uh may I may I earn

your need and be your

wrath oh man it's a good line they would

say that to the Statue of L Santa you

know another thing people it's not a

cartel specific Saint though it's like

everybody like at all levels from the

lady that sells tortillas to the um to

the cops to the military there's some

people in the military that venerated uh

there's a there's a very specific symbol

of how this is like a weird relationship

in the specifically in Santa Marta in

Mexico there's a there's a shrine

outside of Tijuana right across the uh

La Pressa it's like a water reservoir

right tjuana and there was a big Santa

morte uh altar there like on the

roadside and my former bosle zaa ordered

that thing destroyed so they he ordered

a truck to destroy it it was a famous

thing and it was rebuilt the next night

and I know for a fact that some of the

people that rebuilt that were some of

the same guys that you know were there

destroying it oh man that's pretty

symbolic so it's just it's not something

that be can be killed it's a part of the

the spirit of the people it keeps

getting destroyed by Ultra Christian

groups or Catholic groups and it keeps

getting

rebuilt personally for me as

a you know it's I don't believe that

there's a a Reaper skeleton in the sky

protecting me uh but I do believe in the

aspect of an ending you know and how

it's important to you know the ending is

important in all things and death should

be present in life and if it's not then

you're delusional about things so to you

it's a mechanism to meditate on death

once again yeah and you know having uh

my daughter who's eight uh view it as a

benevolent thing you know she's a kid

and she sees a skeleton that represents

death and shees do it's

like I think uh in a way Mexicans have

taken some of those aspects be a day of

the dead some of these practices related

to some occultism aspects around uh you

know St Judas you know San hudas St

Judas is the the patron state of lost

causes and it's one of the most

venerated sa in Mexico you know Jesus is

probably know the fourth or fifth you

pray to which is pretty funny ridiculous

but the reason why and this is something

I heard from somebody that uh was

actually we found him with a gun and on

his gun he had a s Judas

Effigy and uh he said well like why s

Judas SAS and he's like well he's the

last Saint you pray

to what do you mean well on the list of

saints you pray to he's the last one

because when you pray to Judas you might

get the other Judas on the line yeah

that's the last one you pray to that's

why he's like the Lost Cause of Saint

how I remember like even how we try and

bribe or like maneuver our way even in

spirituality in spiritual practices yeah

you know uh such a fascinating culture

that's unlike anything else and it's

right next

door and it's here too again I I I found

an altar in Connecticut which was pretty

fascinating there's one in

Arizona again it's one of the fastest

growing spiritual practices in in the in

not only in the US but like across

there's uh somebody from Russia reached

out there's an altar out there and

there's a group of people praying to

Santa Mar and I I've been posting and

writing a lot about it recently just

from my own experience and some of the

stuff that I gathered for myself and all

the way out there know people are

fascinated by something of those aspects

so I got to ask you about the dark turn

of of that spirituality or maybe you

will place this elsewhere but who was

adalo castano Al padrino this is a guy

that comes up in a in a period I think

this is he's he's at the that initial

period of cartel's this is before my

time and I've I've talked to some of the

people that were there for some of that

I mean he killed a lot of people he was

exposed and learned uh through his

family ties about some of the afro

Caribbean spiritualities that are now

also exploding as far as influences

across the world uh Latin America and

and in the US when I talk about that I

mean

Sania uh Palo mayombe uh basically some

old spiritual practices Coming Out of

Africa that uh utilize things like in

gangas which are basically spiritual

vessels that have to be loaded with

human remains in some cases

he was basically a spiritual

practitioner that certain cartel groups

would hire for them to curse the other

side to inew them with invisibility to

be able to transport their drugs or

protection spells and stuff like that he

was very successful at it apparently or

at least that is the experience of the

people paying for some of these

practices as his spells and his work

kept getting bigger and bigger and more

and more complicated the ingredients he

needed for these anganga or these spells

these cold that he would fill with

certain elements grew in

complexity till finally he said he

needed the brain of a highly educated

American of some sort which led to his

eventual downfall uh he was basically

responsible for abducting and murdering

a young American who was a university uh

college student I think I think you

think he

believed the so this guy's murdering

people to create what magical

potions vessels yeah vessels I think

yeah I think I think he truly believed

that he was uh capable of doing what he

was doing I guess and there was a

culture that's spiritually inclined that

kind of was on the same wave length as

him yeah it jbed I mean some of these

spiritual practices again there's

there's a ritualistic cannibalism done

by some of these cartel groups out there

was he involved in in cannibalism as

well he wasn't involved in cannibalism

that I know of but uh most of the things

that he was kind of known for was

basically requesting human body parts

for some of the spell Works he was doing

and then going to such a level where he

needed a specific brain or head of

somebody that was educated and American

so that kind of again led to his uh

eventual downfalls his Ranch was raided

they found the body parts inside of

these cauldrons that he was preparing

that's an interesting example of

somebody there's a cartel head uh

somewhere in central Mexico as well uh

elas loo was his nickname and he

basically forced the citizenship around

him to turn him into a saint so he like

he made a statue of himself he was very

big into uh Christianity specifically

kind of like the uh

Crusader you know mentality and all that

kind of IM vied himself in some of the

people that were around him uh with that

and there's still altars to his death to

him after he died he died two times one

time the government declared him that he

was killing a shootout and turns out he

wasn't dead so that was his first

miracle you

know and then when he was really dead uh

some of his people and his loyal

followers are were like gunpoint kind of

still forced to go and you know get

flowers and venerate this these effes

and statues of of him as a saint it's a

powerful weapon spirituality in Mexico

is a powerful weapon and you know the

Church Catholic Church in Mexico has a

pretty bad track record but as far as

them as far as that uh being used to

control populace and stuff like that um

and I think uh it's just another aspect

that is being exploited in Mexico with

in some communities as far as the

spirituality and the desperate need for

people to believe in

something and how that leads for some

people to go into some horrible

predatory behavior around it there a

fascinating Dynamic of play here so it's

not just the United States and Mexico

it's also China that you talk about

China is the primary source of fentanyl

in the world so fentanyl is an opioid

that leads to 70,000 plus or minus

overdose deaths in the US every year so

reading from Wikipedia quote compared

with Heroin it is more potent has higher

profit margins and because it is compact

has simpler logistic itics it can be cut

into or even replace entirely the supply

of heroin and other opiates what do you

think is important to understand about

fent as a drug there was a prescription

OB epidemic in the United

States that kind of went down or stopped

you know well you know still out there

but like the the epidemic specific

around it uh kind of petered out and

there was also marijuana

legalization happening at kind of the

same time period which uh you know

people talking about marijuana

legalization thought it was going to hit

the cartels in their pockets and it was

going to be like a you know a death blow

to to these criminal groups well now

there's uh illegal pot grows in the

United States being run by cartels in

federal land uh there's the legal pot

grows that are in some way shape or form

influenced and or run or owned by some

conal groups and that are kind of

utilizing that the the marijuana fields

in Mexico turn into

poppy fields once again the problem is

that some of these lands were leeched of

all the nutrients and you know they're

not as good as something you would find

somewhere in Afghanistan so the the the

yield and the quality of it wasn't as

strong as it could be so somebody

thought about the right idea of putting

fenel into the

mix and not only that but also figuring

out how to get fentin into Mexico um

Mexico has a giant pharmaceutical

industry that people kind of also don't

kind of know or factor into this

equation which leads

into the free ability of chemicals going

in and out of the country and legal

means of it happening right so not only

the precursors to make it but also the

chemist and the industry to create it in

Mexico as well some clandestine

factories of fentin have been found in

Mexico but realistically it's not needed

with the with the ways that the ports

and the borders are down in Mexico um

you started seeing an influx and a flood

of uh fenel into Mexico specifically

related to infusing it into heroin and

not only using that to feed local drug

markets but send it up into the United

States which started off this process

that we're kind of going through still

as these like similar

highs drug wise why do you

infuse I mean probably you're not the

right person have this uh biochemical

discussion of how I don't know about the

biochemical aspect of it but like

speaking to guys that do cha down there

that's that's that's what they call

heroin down there it's like a nickname

for it uh having them describe uh some

of the older stinkier darker heroin they

used to get before this whole fenel

thing and the highs they would get and

how much they would have to take versus

some of the stuff loaded with fenal that

they have to you know also there's more

higher potency yeah there's a higher

potency to it and also there's a you

know more money to be made easier to

transport yeah but

then is this how China starts becoming

part of the picture one aspect to it

that people kind of Miss is that you

know there's no Chinese cartel you know

there's no criminal Chinese organization

working

unseen getting around government

oversight in

China I don't know of any any such

organization that could be labeled as a

criminal organization is is uh deeply

integrated with the government so it's I

mean I've never heard of a giant

criminal Enterprise in China operating

so we have to assume then independent of

the the state I would I would have to

assume that some of these things are

happening with the knoow and inaction of

the government out there um when Co hit

there was a shortage of fenel on the

Northern side of Mexico specifically

related to the seen a la cartel these

guys were actually trafficking fenel

from the US down to Mexico to infuse

their product but not the new generation

cartel which operates out of uh the

central part of Mexico kma area which

have access to the seaside ports so even

during the shutdown they were getting

supplied which means to me at least for

anybody observing it that the supply

chain was not cut and whatever was

coming out of China

was being let out of China by by

whatever official channels would be able

to shut down or stop it I would love to

know the organizational structure the

governmental structure of

China how they enable

it because I can't

imagine at the very top there's like a

portfolio of things we're doing and one

of them isend those right I I I think

it's more in action or just the know no

how that it's happening but just like

hands off just let this I I don't know

if I were to understand how large

bureaucracies work it's looking the

other way yeah you are now seeing um

pill presses brought to Mexico

Industrial Level pill presses founding

clandestine

Laboratories where they're not only

infusing the the the the yields that

they're doing with fenel but also making

fake pain medication that is flooding us

markets everywhere that's

is that P medication or is that fenal

you know who knows you and that's how

you see a lot of people dying from ODS

that are supposedly taking pain pills

and that's not what they're doing uh so

the evolution right now you're seeing is

making

something look legit as far as pain

medication that it isn't and yeah I mean

fenel is everywhere they're infusing

cocaine with it I've been getting

stories from the US of people buying it

through Alibaba or just weird online

sources and coming in different packages

and just infusing it into into whatever

is out there it is killing off a whole

generation of

people um and it comes from one place or

it's manufactured somewhere where it's

being manufactured with the precursors

and the elements and knowhow that comes

from one

place well are we talking about China

talking about China because Mexico seems

to have what's the role of this is such

a complicated and how do you start to

talk about the drug war when more and

more and

China is the source of the

drug is there a drug war going on with

China there's probably an economic War

well you talk this another side to China

uh most and this is something that's

come out recently a few years back I

think but basically the ways you would

move money back into Mexico after you

have a load up here is that you would

give it to a Chinese money broker mhm

they would put it into the Chinese

banking system and it immediately would

just disappear from American eyes and

then another money broker in Mexico

would receive it through a money

transfer from China so China's

incredibly good at money

laundering that's another aspect to I

mean their banking system is invisible

to the US basically which allows which

allows the Monies to move from one point

to another so money Brokers and people

moving money for for for the groups down

there are Chinese so that's another

aspect element of China as far as it's

presence what's the role of intelligence

in all of this FBI CIA the Chinese

intelligence uh agencies right now

Mexico is going through

a a nationalistic Resurgence and uh

leftist

presidency which is not friendly to us

interest in a lot of

ways the US has had a pretty bad track

record when it with its foreign policy

in Mexico with a lot of damage being

done by the last president as far as his

rhetoric uh Donald Trump which has been

weaponized and utilized by the by the

left down down in Mexico so America is

not seen uh positively no every now and

then I post something about Mexico some

horrible thing happening down there it's

like why doesn't us send people down

there like aren't Mexicans looking for

like us intervention it's like no that

is beyond what anybody in Mexico would

want us specifically you see that the

sentiment out there they don't view the

US a as somebody that's going to come

and infect anything or somebody that's

going to help or as a friend uh with the

when the Ukrainian uh conflict

happened uh Mexico basically abstained

from saying anything which is a winking

a not to Russia it has openly been PR

Maduro and openly celebrated some of

these uh regimes be popping up uh across

Latin America you know which is that is

what people people voted for that is a

sentiment down there they're going

towards the left of the political

spectrum because of they've been

basically violated over and over again

by all these different presidencies that

have promised change brought corruption

with them and they are are choices so

this is this is the best we have right

now uh and all of the enemies of the

United States are taking full advantage

of that you know we recently had a

general kind of address a senate

committee hearing I think he was talking

about the prevalence of uh for forign

intelligence services in Mexico you know

and why that is well you know it has

Mexico has a lot of the minable lithium

on the planet underneath uh parts of it

specifically in the north it uh it is

going through a process they call it

transform the fourth the fourth

transformation is what the president of

Mexico calls it which is uh in a way

it's basically we're here to stay type

thing you know they just uh nationalize

mining lith

and taking control of that and using

that as leverage if if the United States

ever wants to go to Mexico it's probably

not going to be related to cartel issues

it's going to probably related to energy

I think you know so they're kind of

thinking ahead I guess well what about

also just imagine a

world where India and China are doing

fental trade with Mexico or whatever

transport imagine Chinese military moves

makes an agreement on NATO type of

agreement with Mexico that's pretty

possible uh again we're seeing a

militarized Mexico it's another aspect

of Mexico that again I I haven't seen

talked about a lot here in the US the

main promise that the current president

had was he was going to make the police

the federal police and the the the the

the security issues in Mexico Civ

civilian he was going to do exactly the

opposite as his main rival Filipe

Calderon the guy that started off the

drug war officially

and what does he do he dissolves the

civilian leadership of the federal

police dissolves the federal police

creates the National Guard which is a

military unit and he puts the military

in charge of that now the military has a

full Monopoly over all federal policing

they're when you cross into Mexico

you'll see them wearing these white

camouflage uniforms those are those are

National Guard people but they're

they're they're the military so now

you're seeing a militarized Mex go with

some of these leaks that happened during

the wakamaya the wakamaya leaks you're

now seeing that Mexico has been hosting

members of the Haitian military and

they've been training them up to go back

to police their

country that's not something that Mexico

has been known for to hosting other

nations and and and training them in

such a way so it's like an it's a it's

an interesting maneuver like Mexico has

been historically neutral about getting

involved in foreign conflicts um about

voting in resolutions as far as invading

or not invading or doing all these

things Mexico has been historically kind

of neutral when it comes to some of

these things and now we're training

foreign military uh forces to go and do

that role somewhere else um we have the

military building airports and building

infrastructure in Mexico and a lot of

their higher ups getting very you know

wealthy around it you know and they

basically have a monopoly

over you know who gets to have guns down

there you know there's one gun store in

all Mexico and it's run by the military

and the only way you can buy a gun there

is if you can buy a plane ticket to fly

there and have enough money to sustain

that uh that right or that privilege So

you you're you're seeing the military

not being in its traditional role of

just being the security Force now it's

policing it's involved in it's it's it's

getting involved in politics in a big

way you know it's um legislation that

has passed to keep it on the streets and

the policing role for more years now so

that should be looked at Closer by

anybody observing it uh from afar how

the militarization of Mexico and where

it's going because if you move towards a

world where a World War III happens it

feels like Mexico will be the

center because a hot War would be fought

on the ground and so you have a

very difficult parallel between Mexico

and Ukraine both don't have nuclear

weapons both have relationships so

Ukraine has a relationship or a pull

towards the European Union and NATO

Mexico at least currently has a kind of

slow pull towards China India

potentially and Russia and you have this

divide between power centers in the

world and in terms of just

imagine hundreds of thousands of Mexican

troops hundreds of thousands of Chinese

troops on the border on the US border

yeah on the Mexican side and also the

fact that that border doesn't mean

anything to any sort of conflict uh that

would happen regionally because that

that's a very easy to cross border

doesn't matter how many walls you put

across it people are already here uh

this is not going to be a war fought off

in some overseas place like you're not

going to this is something if if it

happens if destabilization is utilized

in Mexico to cause a conflict there and

it turns into a Vietnam or or proxy war

down there of A Sort which I think in a

way you're already kind of seeing some

of that uh through some of the conflicts

going on down there you have a a a new

generation cartel that is being fed

fenal from the Pacific side ports and

and suspiciously you know you you you

want to think that maybe it's favored by

a foreign government of some sort uh in

some way shape or form uh who knows and

then you have a historically in control

Cena law cartel that may or may not be

favor by the US in some way shape or

form you can imagine a further conflict

down there and people fostering it and

seeing the effects of basically setting

a fire on the feet of the United States

it's second largest consumer of us

products is

Mexico um the massive wave of

immigration that is going to be

basically weaponized uh you know you saw

the collapse of the border security

structure with the contingent of 3,000

Honduran Guatemalan immigrants in that

first wave of uh Caravans coming to

Tijuana you saw it was it was pretty bad

you know it was pretty bad and it could

have gotten

worse now what is going to happen when

that wave is no not no longer 3,000 but

you know a million people being

displaced by violence or

being in fear of whatever conflict might

originate down there and just that

massive wave of migration and move

like I think that that's that's an

interesting thing that people should

look at and you know how can you affect

change to try and stop some of the these

things that happen well let me ask you a

philosophical at a human level what do

you think about immigration a legal and

legal

immigration from the direction of Mexico

to the United States so we have an

estimated 11 million illegal immigrants

in the United

States and uh estimated 45 million legal

immigrants in the United States if you

things about that when Co had there was

no shortages of uh produce and the in

the supermarkets which means that I mean

illegal immigration is pretty much the

backbone of all uh produce and some of

the farming Industries out there you

know most of it so illegal immigration

and illegal illegal workers in those

fields are essential workers in a way I

think there's a weird relationship in

the United States with some of these

workers and how they're demonized and

how they're called criminals I think

there's there was a state out there that

passed uh anti- illegal immigrant uh

worker uh legislation the farmers had to

look elsewhere for for uh people to show

up to work in some of these fields which

basically caused millions of dollars

worth of losses for some of these uh

Farms um anywhere you go out there in

the United States you go into the

kitchens and there's going to be Panos

there you know French uh high level

French restaurants you'll see people

from pbla there that uh made their way

illegally and might have legalized or

regularized regularized their way into

the country or or in a sanctuary City uh

you go to the service industry hotels

you know those are the people changing

the blankets uh those are the people in

the

washrooms uh you have them doing jobs

that no American wants to do

realistically and they're everywhere in

this country and they are the backbone

of some of these industries that are

essential in this country do you think

there's a deep sense in which they are

American I think they're indispensable

and anybody that says they aren't is

delusional if you take every single

legal worker out of the industry in the

United States and send them back like

there's a movie out there called like

that the m a day without

Mexicans you

know everything would stop so the there

relationship is there uh people talk

about the history of SL slavery in this

country like it's a thing that in the

past uh there's endangered endangered uh

slaves in the country right now people

that are paying off their their people

Smugglers because they brought them into

this country and they haven't been able

to pay that fine or that fee yet and are

basically being held hostage by that

here in the United States so they're

slaves right now in the United States

you know people are talking about it's a

historical context what do we do about

it how are we supposed to think about it

we're going to have to rethink how we

look at immigration illegal or ille or

illegal or legal immigration from Mexico

and how we view Mexico as a as a foreign

country um your relationship to Canada

is one thing your relationship to Mexico

is another um the foreign policy towards

Mexico has been pretty nefarious in the

as far as the United States in a lot of

ways you you can go back there was a

student Massacre during the Olympics

and the president in turn at that time

was a c on the CIA payroll and it was a

counter communist uh type maneuver that

were doing down there but the there are

some bloody hands on on on the US side

of some of the things that have been

happening in Mexico as far as

destabilization and influencing and

meddling and foreign policy out there

most of the guns that are used down

there come from the US you know and

that's a that's another interesting

aspect and responsibility that people

shouldn't kind of think about up here so

there is on the drug war side a machine

that's fueling the drug war I mean

there's a giant drug habit up here you

know but also a governmental

intelligence and Military Support

through the sale of weapons I don't know

about the sale of weapons but you know

there's some

very we talk about poorest borders uh

coming up there's poorest borders also

going down you know there's there's a

flow of guns going down and

Munitions which again gun they don't

kill anybody by themselves you know they

put they get put in the hands of the

desperate that are trying to feed a

giant drug Market to the South to the

north you know Mexico has a saying

Mexico Mexico far from God but close to

the United States right uh and uh

there's uh there's definitely a

responsibility on both sides this is no

longer a Mexico problem a US problem

this is a regional problem and if we

don't think of it as a regional problem

with our brothers on the southern side

of it and with family we we're related

in blood there's like we are we

are Mexico and the United States are

like this but it's become popular in

politics they just throw a line right

and I think we need to get to a place

where we can figure out how to make

those connections and repair some of the

Damage Done by like just years and years

of uh bad policy on both sides of the

Border policy and rhetoric though we

talk about the way we think about it not

just the actual policy but uh seeing the

humanity and the people that are here

yeah it's an easy thing they're coming

to take our jobs is something you hear

uh there was a state out there that

passed some uh anti- U anti- legislation

as far as uh illegal workers on fields

and it led to massive losses nobody

wanted to show up for those jobs

basically they people would show up one

day and they would come back and they

were doing jobs that people just don't

want to do are they taking that from the

the locals or are they feeling an

essential role that we feel guilty about

and uh the redor around it is more about

guilt than anything um I I am an

immigrant myself you know I I've gone

through the experience of doing it

legally

and I've seen people not do it legally

and are in way better places than I am

basically uh by going around some of the

system um the system itself the

immigration system here in the US is is

there's something wrong you know it's

kind of broken um and people coming here

illegally are not only you know they're

looking for a better life for themselves

a better life for people this whole

aspect of vilifying them and they're

like ah there's a there's this immigrant

did this horrible thing this immigrant

did that horrible thing and uh people's

call saying you go back to your country

at the same time they go to a hotel

where they're all all the staff is from

that part of the world and they're here

irregularly or they go to the you know

the Whole Foods and they get some

produce there and it's picked by some of

the same people are vilifying again we

we need to kind of

like think about that and analyze that

for ourselves like yeah the idea of go

back to your country and finding the

other and having a disdain and a hate

towards the other ever since I had a

recent conversation with yay formerly

known as Kanye West I got to

hear a few things

from let's say unfriendly messages from

White

nationalists and I got to learn about

this world um I continue on the Journey

of learning which is the idea that the

United States this country should look a

certain way should have a certain skin

color should have a certain religion and

everything else is a pollution is a

poison to this I made it sound hateful

right now but they usually frame it in a

positive way uh like the the Purity I'm

sure Hitler also phrased everything in a

positive way especially in the 1930s

about the purity of Germany but the

reality of the United States and one of

the things that makes it uh at least the

ideal of the United States is the soup

the mix unlike So Many Nations I've I've

travel to there the the diversity the

good kind of diversity is what makes

this country great and uh there so I

think it's it needs to be based on

the accepting the different groups that

make up the United States versus trying

to purify it and I think Mexican

immigrants is just another flavor of

saying this is the other let's reject

the other yeah I I saw that interview by

the way that

was that you showed amazing restraint

and then an

interview my experience and I I came up

here again Trump was elected when I was

when I came up here so it was a weird

time for me as far as being an immigrant

and the Immigrant experience for myself

um by both being you know basically the

the bad the the the ones that were you

know talked about in that way and also

having a bunch of my friends who were

very conservative and you know wearing

some of those Maga hats around me and

like hey Ed like like well I mean you

know you know I'm a guest here so I have

to you know but uh it's a balancing hat

is what I've been looking at it as you

know on one side there's the woke side

of it which every everything goes and on

the other side is like let's hold on to

some of these things that make us who we

are on my end you know I want to get to

a place where I can smoke a joint uh

concealed carrier firearm be at my gay

best friend's wedding and I want the

government not to say anything about it

and I think there's Parts in the United

States hereo that kind of feel the same

way but there's extremes on both sides

they're pulling you to one side or the

other and I've seen more of the United

States than most Americans I'm in a

different state every weekend so I get

to go to I'm going to Tampa in a bit

tomorrow then I'm going back to

California then I'm proba Tennessee

later then Kentucky so I get to see all

types of of people and all types of

mentalities and and and ways that people

live and this country is more diverse

than most would think you know if you

only see it through the lens of

television or media what I keep seeing

out there that for me is like

a the reason I came here I guess and a

lot of a lot of the reasons that I feel

a vested interest in this country not

just because again my kid's American so

I have a very very big uh interest in

this country doing well but a thing I

see is the there's still the opportunity

and the ability to do something with

yourself and and and opportunities out

there for people like me that come here

with nothing I came here

with an experience spacee a truck and

some demons and yeah and a bunch of

demons in a bag and I'm here with with

you talking right now about some of

those experiences to another immigrant

another to another immigrant and both of

us are reaching people out there that uh

you know might not might haven't heard a

voice of people like us that come that

come here with our own bag of uh demons

but where else in the world can two

people like us have a conversation with

a with an audience like us and not be uh

shot outside of of of this because of

the stuff we're saying yeah listen to

with uh with with love and respect not

not uh

derision

um let me ask you for advice what what

would you say to Young

Folks wherever they come from so in high

school and college they're thinking of

how to live a life have a career they

can they can be proud of and uh

especially if they're struggling

especially if they're at a low Point

like you were when you came here a

travel travel is one of the biggest

things in the world that I would ask

people to kind of go out to uh see how

other people live don't go there with

your own preconceived notions or trying

to make people act like you act like go

out there and travel and actually

experience the world it doesn't have to

be another country uh going from uh

Tennessee to Seattle I know it's it's a

pretty interesting change of uh scenery

who's better at knife fighting just

kidding you don't have to answer that uh

Tennessee uh but but uh the uh uh

traveling is one and knowing how other

people live uh is one aspect of it that

would tell people uh it's risky it's

dangerous but that is part of the

journey is one of the things I would ask

people uh young people to kind of like

consider service is essential and it

should be at the basis of all of our

Lives service start there start with

service in any industry you're going to

go start your own restaurant you have to

work in the kitchen for service if

you're going to be a part a productive

member of this country service and I'm

not talking just about the military

because the military it's it's a process

and it's a lifestyle and it's a thing

for some people out there it's not even

a choice for other people if they want

an education and I get that community

service of any kind is an essential

thing the ability to go out there and

interact with the people that you would

normally not interact with uh homeless

population that you know that there is

in this country uh the the older

population that uh in Mexico our our old

die in our homes you know uh you know

but here you send them off somewhere

else to die which is an interesting

weird Detachment that I I've seen in the

US as far as how the elders are are cast

aside uh if I can say anything to young

people is to start figuring out our life

of service and that's going to that's

going to expose you to a bunch of

experiences to a bunch of people out

there you might not regularly kind of

meet and see and

realities

education is out there it is expensive

but I've sat through a bunch of really

expensive classes that I've managed to

see on YouTube and learned a lot from

them uh so education is out there but it

doesn't have to be as expensive as they

as they make it it's all about the

individual and what he does with that

education the dream is free and the

hustle is sold separately is something

else I watch somewhere uh online but the

ability to take uh take information

process it and use it uh we're expecting

everything to be safe processed and

given to us in a platter and taking that

and digesting and thinking that's going

to make us uh somebody that's going to

be productive or valuable in

society that's up to us the US talks a

lot about freedoms but doesn't talk a

lot about

responsibilities I think that's a big

part of you know take responsibility for

shit like I came here without anything

and the first thing I thought was I have

a responsibility for the people that

I've work with and the people that are

going through the same Pro the same

problems that I am how can I figure out

a way to help yeah the Dark Side of

thinking a lot about freedom is thinking

too

individualistically meaning thinking

about me how to optimize my situation

forgetting that the deepest growth you

can do as an individual is by taking

care of others by helping others by

being of service by being useful to your

community locally and then hopefully

also at scale and that's how how you

grow and that's responsibility of like

helping those around you there's an isol

relist aspect of culture now it's like

we we're separate there's a there's

almost like a spiritual or cultural

amputation in a way where you know when

when I was a kid the house with all the

bikes outside of it that that was where

all the kids were hanging out and now

everybody's on their phone you know the

separate houses I chatting on whatever

um there's an attachment to there that's

a it's a weird aspect to it and also the

the the aspect of

I'm I need to be safe I can't be

offended don't hurt me safe spaces this

is my right this is my this is my right

this is my reality you need to respect

it you respect is earned in my when

where I come from respect is earned um

there's freedoms but there's dangerous

freedoms those those any freedom you

have in Mexico is the dangerous freedom

in a way you know you can drive home

drunk in Mexico you can if you bribe a

cop on your way there and if you don't

die or crash into somebody else that's a

dangerous aspect of Freedom uh but

there's a responsibility to all of it it

it is a twisted responsibility and a

twisted way kind of talk about it and

describe it but I think the the aspect

of people screaming for Freedom up here

their rights or their privilege without

the responsibility you know you know

what are you doing for your community

you know what you're complaining about

this what are you doing about it you

know um another thing I've noticed in

traveling around it's scary is the whole

people people getting shouted down or

cancelled because of what they express

or say yeah some of the creepiest

experiences I've had in the US has been

through universities or just seeing

young people that have an opinion that

is completely outside of reality you

know um people telling me how things are

in Mexico because they learned it

through a college course yes and seeing

sons of immigrants

criticizing me because of my opinion of

Mexico or what I have to say about it

and you know if you want to encounter

the worst enemy of a Mexican is usually

a second third generation Mexican up

here that uh shouts you down for what

you're saying I mean in general

entitlement all those kinds of

things some of that comes with just

being young in general but yes

humility uh humility at a societal scale

would would benefit significantly espec

the young so I I would say some of the

service that you're speaking to is comes

with being humbled yeah and that that is

one of the best things you can do as a

young person whilst maintaining the

dream and the ambition humble yourself

to the reality of the world yeah one

small example a micro example of this uh

kid there was a homeless guy uh she was

out with with some with family members

this hom guy homeless guy showed up he

was erratic mental mentally Disturbed

created a scene she was upset there was

a little bit of trauma there she like oh

now all homeless people are

bad so with her she does art pieces

sometimes for me and helps me make

designs for the clothing brand that I

have and we take some of that money and

we buy socks and underwear you know and

I sometimes I have them in the car

sometime I drive around see somebody

needs something and I give it to her and

says you help me earn this money that's

going to help these people just give

them these and she's

like you know and a thank you and she's

like hey cool rolls up the window uh she

used to roll up the window really quick

now she doesn't they they cease to be

scary yeah because now some of them have

names now some of them know her name you

know when when they when she crosses by

there so she's there's contact there

she's more connected than I am in some

of these places now you know she has

Friends in Low Places and in high places

that comes later I guess but she is

learning about service she's learning

about not every not not everybody out

there is an enemy or bad or scary she

learning about

service and she's uh basically learning

that lesson that I got from my mom long

ago you know nobody's against you there

for themselves don't take anything

personal and if you're not doing

something for other people while you're

working then you're not doing

anything so when you were young you were

pretty sure you're going to die before

you're 30 yeah what's your relationship

with death today do you think about your

immortality are you afraid of it I'm not

afraid of it uh if anything I'm afraid

uh a

meaningless death or at least a mean a

meaningless uh walk towards it

I'm afraid of losing use of my legs I

guess I'm afraid of uh not being able to

go out there and do things anymore I'm

afraid that I'm not physically capable

of doing the job that I used to

do uh so if anything I'm afraid of

Stillness you know it's something I

always quote a lot in my writing

Stillness is death so you always want to

be challenging yourself moving growing

like you're traveling so you get all

these experiences and filling your life

with all these experiences and if it

ends when it ends you're ready for it

yeah I'm not afraid of the end the

ending is important in all things first

time I got a promotion I got two silver

coins hand it to me MH here's a silver

coin and this is another silver coin and

they he said I'll give you the the other

one when your job ends you know it

depends on you if you wanted to have it

over your eyes or in your pocket right

and uh the lesson there is that uh you

know this job you're getting it's pretty

cool and you're going to be in charge of

all these people and it's pretty

important important but it's uh going to

end so you always have to the ending is

important in all things um if we don't

keep that in mind then if you think

we're Immortal and nothing's going to

end I think that's a there's an atrophy

a spiritual atrophy in

that for the sake of spiritual

flourishing this conversation too must

come to an end so I think a beautiful

way to end it and I'm a huge fan of

yours thank you for being a man with a

life well- lived and for talking with me

today as an honor man it was an awesome

conversation thank you for having me on

thanks for listening to this

conversation with Ed Calderon to support

this podcast please check out our

sponsors in the description and now let

me leave you with some words from

albino's character and Scarface Tony

Montana you don't have the guts to be

what you want to be you need people like

me so you can point your fingers and say

that's the bad

guy thanks for listening and hope to see

you next time

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Ed Calderon: Mexican Drug Cartels | Lex Fridman Podcast #346

Transcription