Transcription
Ivy League school. Like we're just trying to like get out of poverty. You know, if it's my resume and your resume, but I know the guy, I'm gonna get the job. That's a that's a privilege. It's just luck. Yeah. No, no. It's a it's a it's a privilege. It's an institutionalized group. That's okay.
You would all agree there are two different types of immigration, right? There's legal immigration. There's people who are breaking the law and crossing the border. Some people are lucky and some people aren't. It's just that simple. And it's hard to accept. The world's a cruel place. Do you think you're accepting of the system because it's worked for you?
Oh, [Music] there are institutional and systemic barriers that prevent some people from becoming successful. [Music] I don't know if anyone that has millions of dollars has ever ridden a bus, but you don't understand that your day would be four hours to get somewhere back and forth as opposed to a 20-minute drive. And so the shift in all these things that happen are highly destructive. And it's not that people become lazy, it's because they become overwhelmed. Education, access, knowledge, accessibility to almost redlining.
But that's like how complex adaptive systems work. You're the number one determinative outcomes is your initial conditions. Like that's biology. That's how complexity systems that's how the universe is designed. So you know it just is what it is. Like you know what like that's how the the nature of the fabric of biology is. And so you know we can sit here and complain oh it's not equal but that's just how it is. Like of course it would be a utopian society where everybody but then we could have that if we had like imagine we had unlimited energy, right? Cuz money is just stored energy, right? Like that's all you go to work, you expend your energy, they give you dollars, right? And that's where the the real disconnect is. You're getting dollars in exchange for your energy, but then the dollar is losing its value and you don't know how to offset that. So then everything gets a little bit harder and more energy you put out. And so, but all my point is on this is like there's for sure barriers. Like if you're in a club and you know the right people, your network is your net worth. I mean, that's just how the world works. And like I don't really think there's any way to unwind that.
I mean, it's interesting to hear you say that it's a fact of biology in the universe when we know that these are man-made systems. We know that these are man-made policies. Um, it's not that, you know, the universe or God or our biology has determined that it's right to redline. These are manmade policies. That's not just how it is. It's how you as someone who has been born into capitalism has experienced the world and has and as like life views have been shaped. And if we're thinking also about you know racialized capitalism, we're thinking about the institutionalization of white supremacy. Um it's really interesting to see honestly how that's coming up in this room. um by way of how you I'm hearing like or I'm just kind of yeah struck by uh hearing that it's like a fact of biology and and the universe that these are barriers.
Sure. But I guess what I'm trying to say is like if you just think about an actual like Serpinsky's triangle or something where it's where you start has the most this is just math like the most determinant outcome like is based on your initial condition not what you do like I mean look you go to Chipotle the guy who's grilling the the chicken's working hard right he's there's a lot of people working hard and like I think that's the whole American dream thing is like you want to believe that if you work hard that you get results right and that and I think that's what we're talking about here but I'm trying to tell you is most of it's just luck. Where you were born is the most important thing in determining outcomes. Now, you can overcome that for sure. No question. But I'm just telling you that like it's it just that's how it the systems work like and that's how you can do it in a non-human system and you can see this as well. And that's what I meant by biology. Like there's all kinds of complex science that like just shows this.
Feudalism and monarchy has been the norm throughout history. So we had an aberrational period where democracy and and like the people had a moment. But like I'm just saying over the the history of humans feudalism is what's reigned. I get the history. I ask have we not evolved enough? Are we not educated enough? Why can we not use AI to take us out of that? Cuz maybe that's just how humans are drive like the top of the pyramid. There's certain and a lot of the people who make it to the top are not good people. And that's all I'm saying is like how do you protect against that? A sociopath can be functioning. That's my point. And I think that's the point right for sure. I'm not disagreeing with No. I'm not I'm just saying it is what it is. That I'm much more accepting that is the structure of how things work and like we just try our best basically. Do you think that's how it should work? I mean to change that. Oh, sure. I mean, I would like it if everybody just said we're all having pina coladas and no worries. For sure. Absolutely. Like I'm I'm I'm a normal guy. I'm just telling you that like I'm accepting of like how systems work versus like and you can everyone try you know we'd be nice to you if other people accepting of the system because it's worked for you.
Am I accepting of the system because it's worked for me? Uh I don't know if it's worked for me. I mean like I mean there's been things that have not gone right in my life but um no I'm just accepting because I'm kind of a philosopher or science person. Like I just look at how things are and look at history. I mean, yeah, sure. I mean, I've had a nice life, so I guess I'm just more it's easier to have that position. Let's put it that way.
I I'll agree with that. There's definitely a bigger and growing gap between, you know, the the ones that do not have anything than and and and the ones that have everything simply because, you know, that's how economics work these days, the investments opportunities. And, you know, you can multiply them much more versus people at the bottom. they're pretty much living paycheck to paycheck, right? Sort of like they cannot think about investments and savings. Um, and so at first I thought when you mentioned biology I thought well maybe you're talking about survival of the fetus, right? Because you think about the evolution the the people who living paycheck to paycheck they they have um they find extra time and because they they're ambitious because they want to grow because they want to achieve American dream. They want to grow better and get better and better. In this case they kind of slowly rise up and so there is an opportunity again pure due to the evolution to go up right on the other hand the ones that already have plenty the billionaires that are run the world I mean you know that typically by the third generation in families you know wealth disappear so like you know whoever's on top they eventually is going to go down versus there is always an opportunity for people to go up and so again if they believe in evolution in this case uh survival of the fetus people are going to succeed like think about elite universities as like a gateway to better life, you know, and for I have lots of friends who went to Ivy League schools that didn't let's just say they weren't probably they went to got in and they didn't have from the right f they're the family who would they their father went there or something and they're moving that away they're starting to remove that at Stanford and other schools to give more opportunities to other people which is a step in the right direction right to your point like we can do things but those schools are 100,000 a year like USC or something and so the opportunity still isn't there. You know, whatever it is that they're doing, right?
I think it goes way deeper than that. I think that the the limitations that it put on us are a result of choices before. It's a very slow and patient game. I mean, the people from the uh Reagan administration and the war on drugs that took the fathers out the homes that made the moms single parents who had the kids on the streets like we are we're treading just to trying to keep up just to so many systematic things have been put in place that affect us years later that Ivy League school like we're just trying to like get out of poverty or we're just trying to graduate school. I just think it's a slow intentional um on how they put these barriers in and we are fighting the results of that. So as we don't I can't even think about Ivy League school. It's, you know, I was just giving it as an example of like going trying to make it where there's more opportunity because it is a place where then it can give you more opportunity. And that's just one example. And in general, the people you know, if they're people who have power or like it's easier to go up knowing somebody versus here's my resume. You know, if it's my resume and your resume, the same thing, right? We have the exact same resume, but I know the guy, it's I'm going to get the job. You know, like if it's just same same and like that's just kind what I'm trying to say is that like the that's a privilege, right?
You everything. Yeah. No, no. It's a it's a it's a privilege. It's an institutional and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with privilege. Privilege is luck. I mean, you you didn't deserve anything. Isn't that what privilege is? Like you're saying you didn't deserve to have that advantage. In essence, I just think of it as luck. It's not necessarily a thing about deservingness. It's more so about this thing about uh an inherent advantage that you have been able to have. Yeah. But but why though? Because of because of us operating in systemic and institutional barriers, a system that kept you privileged. Right. Right. But again, I didn't choose to be born the way I did or anybody, you know, like you just were born that. It was just some people are lucky and some people aren't. It's just that simple and it's hard to accept. The world's a cruel place. I'm sorry. Like, it's just this the truth. The American dream is dead.
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If you look at the numbers, America is still the number one country for accepting immigrants in the world. You know, more people are trying to come here than anywhere else in the world. And you know, perhaps to them that's because the American dream, you know, is still alive. Are we not currently trying to dismantle that dream? I mean, the very thing that we're watching on TV, definitely not. That's totally different. That that's completely different. Yeah. Well, the immigration, I mean, it just seems like immigration.
But you would all agree there are two different types of immigration, right? There's illegal immigration. There's a people who are breaking the law and crossing the border. Like I grew up in a country where if you cross the border illegally, you're pretty much immediately shot. That is why you try to actually I lived in a country where if you leave the country, you're going to be immediately shot, right? So like that that kind of thing did not exist. And so I know again me and many of my friends we all kind of like went through quite significant amount of effort to come here legally apply for visas apply you know wait for the the not the asylum some people came for the for the asylum as were persecuted recently in Russia but there's legal immigration sort of like that's what's of I completely support and of course any country actually would benefit from it and America significantly benefits from it. Japan, for example, significantly doesn't benefit from it, if that's the right expression, but they barely allow any immigration whatsoever. And as a result, the country is declining. But here, illegal immigration is uh is plentiful, but illegal is I totally do not support that.
It's interesting seeing the perspective from people who come into the United States, what their perception of American dream is, and people who are already here or generational who are here and what our version of the American dream is. Well, I mean there's a definition of it's upward mobility, right? The sort of like you over time maybe compared to your parents, maybe compared to yourself as you start to live in this country, there's opportunity here for upward mobility, right? And if you through hard work and perseverance, that's kind of like in general, you know, there's many other other aspects like luck and sometimes it's whom you know and some other things, but it's primarily hard work and perseverance, you can live better. And you know the other thing about America is like the we haven't when you look at like the science and technology scores they have we haven't been in the top 10 in a long time. But you know what America always is number one at? Confidence. And when you I've been an entrepreneur since I was 27 and like that's really what it takes. You just have to be confident. You just have to go out and take risk. And Americans are still the best at that. Like there's no one in the world I'll put up against the risktaking, the confidence to go do stuff and create stuff than Americans. Like we're not this most educated. Like there's lots of problems, but time and time again Americans just they play to win. And I don't know. I mean like there was the declines and the it's easy to be negative and I and like especially right now I I can feel it and I understand but it's like I don't know. There's something about it where the people believe here. they still believe and like their their their belief is being challenged. There's no question. But people still believe and there are opportunities without question. There's just more I just think it's just more people. There's more competition than you know there's just a lot more people than there were 30 years ago.
But I also feel that our arrogance sometime I mean our our our confidence goes to arrogance and the arrogance is something that can become a little bit offensive and uh so uh Americans are kind of pushing in a way that I don't know it's almost like stepping our toes at some point. Yeah. But I think look I lived in Italy half the year for 13 years and like the arrogance and I have lots of European the arrogance there is very different. It's an entitled arrogance. There's a little of it now, but it's like I'm just meaning that like people are willing to go after it. That's what I mean by cont. I appreciate that and I do get that. Yes, I do. I think for uh there's a large population um of Americans who are not privileged with the opportunity to have arrogance um because what they are dealt with is survival and there's never an opportunity to get on level ground uh to even start to have the arrogance generationally. I'm trying, you know, we're trying to put ourselves in a position so we can be part of the race. So when I say it's your perception of what American dream is for one population, American dream may be the whole family coming together and getting one house or getting out of poverty or adding to your portfolio. Um, I just think it's really based off of the experience, the the vision, the experience and what you've had access to to even know what's possible.
So, yeah, I think as I hear all of y'all talking, there's a couple of things that I want to address. Um, you had mentioned when you came from Russia with $1,000 in your pocket, you worked for a year and a half, you saved up some money and were able to put down um money for a house and it's really important to acknowledge that these were really different circumstances to be able to achieve that beforehand, right? Like we are constantly evolving. I'm thinking about, you know, my mother who uh came as a Cambodian refugee after the genocide and she was able to attain what could like someone could consider an American dream. Um I grew up, you know, upper middle class. Um and even then it's interesting because as the American dream evolves, so does um what is required to maintain that evolve. It's becoming so much more difficult to maintain that dream. um we know that you're so much closer to falling into um houselessness than you are actually being able to move upward into being rich.
I guess I raised my hand because as soon as I heard the word American dream, I write to support it, not because I believe that it's that. So my answer is completely the opposite. I grew up in a Soviet Union and so there there's no American dream. Everything is all related to whom you know um and whether you can bribe people at the right time, right? So there was like barely any upward ability unless you follow within certain families. So you make the the sort of the right friends. So I came to this country just over 30 years ago for an American dream and I'm living it and so like over the time with hard work with perseverance you know and it's um it been achieved and so many of my other Russian friends and other Europeans whom I know the sort of Latin American people they came and um they achieve pretty much the same thing. the s of they come they they get good education then they come here they get good work and then they succeed at life not everybody is achieving the the sort of you know necessarily the same level as I did but you know many of them achieved more many of them achieved a little bit less do you think if you arrive today as opposed to 30 years ago that the same thing would happen 100% do 100% because I I do the same thing happening still people come here sometimes they already educated somewhere else sometimes they come here for education if you get a good education if you have um you know good enough brain then you expose yourself to good professional opportunities and those professional opportunities or maybe you just become an entrepreneur right so and then you have an opportunity in this country to um I I see where your perspective is um people who come into the country don't necessarily have to deal with the systematic issues you get to come with the privilege uh so you don't have to face some of the obstacles but I do believe that the American dream is still a thing I think the original conception of it back in the guilded age where it's like a white picket fence. That idea is dead, but it's a evolving idea. The more access that I have, the more my perception of American dream changes. And while there is a wide uh wealth gap, the majority of the millionaires in the United States don't come from trust funds, they're self-made. So I think the original uh American dream was to dedicate 20 years of your life, 30 years to your of your life doing a career that you hated in hopes that one day you don't have to do it anymore. Um I think the new American dream is doing something that you love so you never have to retire. So for that reason, I believe that the American dream is evolving. There's always been systematic uh barriers for us. That's never that's always been a thing. um it's just kind of how we overcome that and utilize what we have today.
You have to use a historical perspective, right? Think about how much more opportunity there is now than 100 years ago, 200 years ago. I mean, the thing about America is is that it had a nice run post World War II. The whole world got destroyed and so America ran a current account def or surplus and a capital account surplus and the whole world was pegged to us. So we provided everything to everybody and so it was a very easy opportunity and so the 50s and 60s shouldn't looked at as like something that was normal. It was an aberrational period like relative to history of any country. So like it's people look at that as a golden age but it was a golden age. It was never something that was going to last. And so you have so many more people the world's competitive. Everybody sees everything on the internet. So there's this idea of like oh the people are doing well so then it feels that but I think people work hard here. I think people there's more opportunity. I lived in Europe and Italy for a while and like like you said I mean I never lived in I've been to Moscow but there a lot of countries where there's not nearly as much opportunity. So relative to the opportunity set that was I think that's probably fair but I think there's still tons of opportunity here and people every day are getting things done. It's just it's more competitive in some sense.
In the last 50 years, as much as we think that America is so far ahead, we're actually declining. Our strength in the world and the economy, everything is going downwards. And you could even compare it to like a Roman Empire is exactly with what you're saying, and I 100% agree, but it is the people at the top are still going to live their quality lives, but more and more like a greater percentage is going to get that squeeze, and we're going to live in it. So, are we learning from our history or are we just going to go repeat it? You know, that's kind of the thing I'm saying.
America is the greatest country on earth. My perspective is because this is my people's land. You know, I come from the Shauni and Apache tribe between Kansas City and Oklahoma. Uh this land is rich. Um this is the original Egypt. So to me because my roots run deep here um this is the most place that I feel home. Uh there have been catastrophic events to many populations on many continents around the world. Uh but this land this soil this place where we are this is my home and because of that this is the best place.
I am exceedingly proud to be an American. Like I have always loved the fact that I'm an American, that I'm here. And I feel like America has lost touch with community. Like we've just started kind of tucking everything away the way that you would put like a old grandmother or maybe like a mentally challenged person away in a room and not let people see it when they come over. It's like we used to support Americans. I used to feel that and I don't feel that anymore.
I am so grateful for being in a place living in a place that has such diversity but I really struggle because of this empire because of the ways imperialism has shaped the world. You know I hear us making a lot of comparisons between America and Europe but the world is so much larger than America and Europe. That's it's it's significantly larger and those are billions of people who have been uh negatively affected to say that lightly as a result of this empire. Um and so I can't discount that and it that makes me really stop firmly being like this is not the greatest country in the world. But I also don't think that any country is really the greatest country in the world. If only I wish though that America took seriously the land that it was on and its ability to really tend to it in ways that um tended to the health, you know. Um but Americans didn't. It was colonizers. No, no, no. Of course. Like I'm thinking I'm thinking like like original Americans. Original Americans. Colonizers is the reason why we're indigenous folks for sure. Absolutely. you know, we think about um like food forest, you know, an old growth forest and the ways that they were maintained in respect for the land and it being in reciprocal partnership with the land and not dominating over the land. So, uh where I'm coming from is yeah, like thinking about colonialism and imperialism and the ways that this empire is so deeply rooted in its core for for for those reasons. So, um I don't think it's the greatest country.
I mean, I think about it a little differently. Like I think the you know the land thing like America has the most strategic like natural resources. You have two oceans on both sides. You have tons of fresh water, oil, gas. like you have like Americans are a little spoiled relative to we don't have near we have a couple wars but like relative to where the region of Europe you guys are in Eastern Europe I mean you can look the the boundaries have been changing for thousands of years I'm from Chachchna my my hometown was like completely destroyed so people here have no idea like if you lived in America your whole life you have no idea what that's about you know in certain parts of Asia so there's in some ways yes that is it is the greatest from that from just unnatural but like yeah this government. It's tough to like say the greatest. I don't know. Seems a little arrogant. That's American. For sure. For sure. 100% 100% agree. 100%.