Transcription
I can corner any Trinitarian in any conversation, and they'll tell me they can't go any further. The first question I'd ask is, "Is the consciousness of the Holy Spirit separate from the consciousness of Jesus, separate from the consciousness of God? Are we dealing with three separate consciousnesses?"
>> [snorts]
"What?"
Augustine said, "We use the word persons because we don't have anything else to use." We as oneness say manifestations. So, manifestations is weak. Persons is weak because it ain't a heaven or hell thing.
>> "YOU'S A LIAR."
>> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
>> "YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T EVEN GOING TO DO THIS, but um..."
>> "Get over here." [groaning]
So, we see this is City of Refuge LA, right? Bishop Noel Jones. Look at this, though. Their temporary location is the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
>> "Come on now, dog. Come on," [clears throat] "man."
Okay, which one? And it gives you the address right here, right? Okay. So, that church is pastored by this brother right here, Donovan Childs. And we all see La Sierra University; we know what this is. Okay, all right. So, the president of the Southern California Conference is this brother right here, John Chris. This is like what would be considered the bishop in you people's churches, right?
So, not only is um Bishop Noel Jones out here talking this oneness heresy, but this man is doing it in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which is diabolical to me because we stand for the Trinity, the triune God. This man is in our pulpit talking crazy.
>> As many times you get in discussions about scriptures and about your position and the other person's position. When I grew up, I grew up and my fence bordered the fence of my neighbor, and [snorts] he was Seventh-day Adventist. And of course, we would clash all the time in terms of when would we worship and when should we worship and all of the things that go with that.
>> "You clash all the time, but you're in our church. You're using one of our buildings for your services. This is crazy."
And after a while, it just became egotistical. And that is, I wanted to win, and he wanted to win. And incidentally, I studied arts, and he studied arts, and then he studied science. And he ended up being the dean of the medical department in Arkansas University. He ended up being dean of the medical department at Temple, and he ended up in Maryland. And [snorts] so, now that we're working part-time at this Seventh-day Adventist Church,
>> [snorts]
of course, they know, 'cause he's quite a famous guy. But it didn't really matter. We just wanted to win. And sometimes you ask the question when you're dealing with trying to convince someone about the truth that you have. There's a way to approach dealing with truth that does not hurt other people's feelings. Give me a little more monitors if you can. Uh, it's a very critical thing because "he that winneth souls is wise." And many times the people that you debate with, if they don't have the truth that you have, then that truth has to be presented in a way that it does not isolate, but that it wins other people. And that's why in the book of Ephesians, he says, "You speak the truth in love." And [clears throat] love then becomes a substratum or the very fundamental rudimentary basis by which all of us should deal with each other. And so, it's so easy...
>> "I agree with that."
See, to call somebody a heretic because they believe in, and there's 28, maybe 40 million people who believe in what we have defined as oneness.
>> "So, you're telling me the Seventh-day Adventist Church has partnered with oneness?"
>> "Come on now, dog. Come on, man."
"This is pure trash. How in the world..."
>> [music] [music]
"...diabolical. You is stupid. Stupid."
>> As opposed [snorts] to Trinitarian. And the interesting thing is that many of my brethren have come under attack because they're called oneness. And what...
>> "He called, he refers to the people as his brethren. He don't refer to Trinitarians as his brethren. He is oneness. How the heck, bro..."
...is oneness. Oneness is actually what the Catholic Church decided in the Nicene Creed as modalistic mode. And oneness says that there's one God who appears in three separate [snorts] modes. Therefore, modalistic. And Sabellius and Noetus was against Athanasius in that Nicene presentation, and they concluded that Sabellius was a heretic. So, [snorts] not to believe the Trinity was heretical to the universal church or the Catholic Church. Now, [snorts] it is very interesting because now you're asking yourself the question, "Are we declaring oneness to be heretical because we want to eliminate some people, or are we seeking truth? Are we willing to listen, to have a conversation? Or are we simply going to say the Nicene Creed or the Nicene Conference decided that Sabellius was heretical?"
>> "See, I don't go off of no creed or none of this stuff. I go off the scriptures, man. I don't care about what the creed and and what what was done back then. I don't care about none of that. Like when it come to this, man, I can go to the scriptures and prove that these, that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are persons. I can prove that these are three persons that make up the Godhead. I can prove that from the scriptures. I don't care about none of this crap he up here talking about. He ain't give not, he, he ain't talking scripture yet. He is not talking scripture yet."
Because he didn't believe in three persons. He believed one God who is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And to make that very simple, I'm a husband.
>> "Lord."
So, I'm a comforter.
>> [snorts]
I'm a father. I have [clears throat] children. And I am a son 'cuz I have a father. But I'm only one person.
>> "That is not who God is. And you people like to explain God like this. That's what makes this heresy, man. This is garbage."
Now, if you understand the Trinity, there are three persons,
>> [snorts]
but one God. Well, the only person in the Godhead is Jesus.
>> "This is so stupid."
Because he's...
>> "This is stupid. This is stupid. Persons have the ability to hear, speak, see, um, function. Every person in the Godhead has those abilities. So, you can't say Jesus is the only person because being a person is more to just being uh, visible. You understand? Like, there, there's attributes to personhood, man. And the Father and the Holy Spirit has personhood." [clears throat] "This man up here talking about who he is and how he manifests himself in different ways, heresy."
The only one who could be defined as a person in the same sense that we are people.
>> "This is terrible."
It's interesting because when you study Augustine, and, and here's the reason I'm, I'm, I'm being this elaborate: it's because if you're seeking truth, you have to have information.
>> "And I get that, and I understand that, but you people love to get information outside of the scriptures. Like, y'all can't, y'all, y'all try to use the scriptures to prove heresy when the scriptures debunk what you're saying. This is what don't make sense to me."
If you don't have information and you're going by what the Catholic Church said in the 1500s, at 6 on the 14th century, then you're simply just reiterating something they said without even examining it because you want to put somebody down who doesn't believe the tradition that you...
>> "Guess what? But listen, man. This, that's not what, what it is that we doing. What we're doing is we're proving from the scriptures about the triune God. That's what that is. You up here talking about some Catholic Church and I've seen counsel and all this other stuff, man. Back in the 14th century and all that stuff. We dealing with the scriptures. Where is your scriptures to prove this oneness mess?"
...you have accepted. All right? So, if I were to sweeten the argument, have you ever heard the expression WASP? W.A.S.P., white Anglo-Saxon Protestant. Right? Now, if by the same measure, I am going to be fair, and I'm going to say whatever the universal church or the Catholic Church has decided to be heretical or not heretical, to be doctrinally sound or not doctrinally sound, then I would ask the WASP, "How can you be Protestant and not be a heretic?"
>> "What?"
Now, give some consideration what I'm saying.
>> "And like, I, I understand the question, but this, this is complete ignorance to me. This is terrible, man, because you do a whole study about this in our church. So, how are you using the building of people you don't agree with? This is stupid. And, and then you have the audacity to to discuss us and all of that, but you yourself, man, you, I'm really trying to watch my words, man. I'm really trying to watch."
Luther was the Protestant. And Luther nailed 95 theses on the Wittenberg Cathedral door. That was his position opposing Catholicism's doctrinal expression.
>> [snorts]
And that church called him a heretic. And even till today, he's a heretic, heretical to them because he defied the church and actually started the Western Christian culture. So, if you were going to say that anyone who does not believe like the Catholic Church in relationship to Noetus and Sabellius,
>> [snorts]
and they're heretics, and you're going to take that without examination, then you should just automatically understand that all of us who aren't Catholic are all heretics by the same measure.
>> "Yeah, to the Catholic Church, yeah."
The whole point is nobody can totally and completely explain the Godhead.
>> "And I agree. Nobody can. Nobody can."
Nobody is astute enough, intellectually enough, and has enough revelatory experience to explain the Godhead. And interestingly enough, John said, "These things were written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God, and believing you might have life through his name." So, nobody has to understand the Trinity or oneness in order to be saved.
>> "Now, it all depends on how you saying it now, because yes, we are saved by grace through faith, but you cannot reject the God of the Bible. I'm sorry, Two Elephants Church. You can't reject the God of the Bible and claim to still be saved. You cannot reject who the scriptures has revealed to us who God is and still be saved. You can't."
Because the intellectual aspect and the revelatory aspect is so intense and so great, it's beyond us. I can corner any Trinitarian in any conversation, and they'll tell me they can't go any further.
>> "But you're sitting in a Trinitarian church."
>> "Come on now, dog. Come on, man."
See how dumbness is? This is ignorance.
>> "See, it's" [laughter] "it's unexplainable. The first question I'd ask is, 'Is the consciousness of the Holy Spirit separate from the consciousness of Jesus, separate from the consciousness of God? Are we dealing with three separate consciousnesses?'"
>> "What? No. This is ignorant, bro. There's God," [groaning] "one essence. There is one essence. There is one God. All three persons make up this one God. This is what the scriptures has revealed to us. We can see that just by reading. You yourself quoted Jesus being the son. So, how is he the father, the son, and the Holy Spirit? And all that switching masks and stuff like that. This is what's wrong with these people, man. And then you want to be in one of our churches talking this garbage. I hope they kick you out."
Augustine said, "We use the word persons because we don't have anything else to use."
>> "We use the word person because that's what the scriptures reveal."
We as oneness say manifestations.
>> "Y'all heard him say, 'We as oneness,' right? So, why is oneness to um, in our building? Why is oneness using our stuff? Why is oneness in our pulpits? This is trash."
But a pillar of cloud by day is a manifestation. A pillar of fire by night, pillar of fire by night is a manifestation. But, that's not on the same level as the Holy Spirit, the Son, and the Father. So, manifestations is weak. Persons is weak.
>> "He just said persons is weak. Are you kidding? This is a demon."
So, all of us are arguing over what we can't explain.
>> "I can explain it, though. You're a demon. That's what I'm going to say. You're a demon."
Mhm. The Trinitarian is so busy separating the three that we end up with three gods.
>> "Dumb. Come on now, dog. Come on, man."
Let's go ahead and deal with this real quick. President John Cress, I want to know what you're going to do about this situation. President Earned, I wonder what you going to do about this situation. Pastor Donovan Childs, I wonder what you're going to do about this situation, seeing as though this man is preaching this in your church.
>> "Come on now, dog. Come on, man."
You Seventh-day Adventist churches are getting trashed by the week. 1 John 2:22, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is Antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son." So, why not just say that denieth Jesus if um, he's the same, if he's all three of them? Why didn't the text just say, "Deny Jesus"? It says, "That denieth the Father and the Son." Okay, there's a difference there.
Verse 23, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father, but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." Mhm. So, we see Father-Son talk here.
1 John 4:2, "Hereby know ye the spirit of God. Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God. And this is that spirit of Antichrist." Do you not understand that the text say Jesus came in the flesh, not the Father? Okay.
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son." Huh? The gospel hangs on the fact that the Father sent the Son. How are you a bishop? I don't understand this.
Galatians 4:4, "But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his son." Why didn't it say, "God sent forth himself"? Why didn't it say that the Father came down here? This is what's wrong with you oneness people. Y'all don't know how to read, man.
Romans 8:9, "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. If so be that the spirit of God dwell in you. Now, if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his." So, we see that if you do not have the spirit of Christ, you are not his. And we clearly see you oneness people do not have the spirit of Christ.
John 17:3, "And this is life eternal that they might know thee, the only true God, and" [clears throat] "Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." "I have glorified myself on the earth." Is that what the text say? No. It says, "I have glorified thee on the earth. I have finished the work which thou gave us me to do." Look at verse five, "And now, O Father, hmm, glorify thou me with thine own self." How in the world is Jesus calling somebody Father? This is not his humanity talking to his divinity. That's what y'all be saying. No, this is an actual relationship between a father and a son.
John 5:23, "That all men should honor the son even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the son honors not the Father which have sent him."
>> [music]
>> "Mercy."
>> [music]
Second Corinthians 11:4, "For if he that cometh" [clears throat] "preaches another Jesus," mhm, "whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit which you have not received, or another gospel which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him." This is if he cometh that preacheth another Jesus. That's what you people are preaching, another Jesus, man. Galatians 1:8, "But though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." The scripture say, "let you people be accursed," man. Y'all are preaching a different Christ. Y'all present a different Jesus, man. Every time y'all do these teachings, these sermons, and y'all are very heretical.
Y'all deny that Jesus was fully God, fully man, right? So, y'all use certain texts like he, "in him dwelleth the the the entirety of the Godhead," something like that. Like y'all use scriptures like that, man. And that's not what it means, first of all. The text ain't saying that Jesus is all three of them. Y'all make it like that. That's not what the Bible shows. The Bible shows that there are three persons. That's what makes up the Godhead. It's not Jesus masking himself as the Father, masking himself as the Son, and masking himself as the Holy Ghost. That is pure heresy.
The doctrine of the Trinity is not a childish issue. This is one of the, if not the most serious one of them all. If not one of the, the top. It is the teaching, the doctrine of who God is. And you people reject that. The Father sent the Son. The Son died for our sin. The Holy Spirit lives on the inside of us, applies salvation. Rejecting the Trinity is rejecting the God that's revealed in the scripture. And the Bible say, "anybody that reject the Son, they ain't got the Father." Salvation is only in the true Christ, and that is the Son. He is also God, but he is the Son of the Father. If, if, if he wasn't, then why would he be called the Son? We got to start using our brain, people, because this is dumb, man.
These people out here pushing heresy in our pulpits. These people out here pushing heresy on YouTube. These people out here pushing heresy on Facebook. Everywhere. They pushing this doggone heresy, and they, they making their way in our churches and our Trinitarian churches, man. Whether you be Baptist, Church of God in Christ, um, Church of Living God, whatever the case may be. These oneness people are making their way in, and they are changing people, and all of you Trinitarians out here worshiping with them. Who y'all worshiping? What God are you Trinitarians worshiping when you worshiping with these oneness people? Is it A? Is it another Christ? Is it B? Is it another Christ? Is it C? Is it another Christ? Or is it D? All of the above.
>> [music]
I'm going to just going to tell you, it's another Christ, and you are cursed. Anybody that rejects the triune God and the Jesus that is revealed in scriptures, you are accursed and will burn in hell. Somebody get this man and his oneness people out of our churches.
>> "Our redeemer king. Our..."
>> [music]
"...redeemer king."
>> "We will let your praises..."
>> "We will let your praises ring."
>> "Yeah, we will."
>> "YEAH, WE WILL."
>> [music]
>> "COME ON AND HELP ME CALL HIS NAME."
>> "JEHOVAH."
>> [singing]
>> "WE CALL YOU..."
>> [music]
"...JEHOVAH."
>> "JEHOVAH KING OF LORD OF LORDS."
>> "JEHOVAH."
>> "ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE beginning and the" [music] "end."
>> "Jehovah."
>> "The holder of the title, my proclaim."
>> "Jehovah."
>> "Jehovah king of..."
>> [music]
"...My king."
>> "Jehovah."
>> "Jehovah."