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I know there's a lot of speculation out there about the uh Butler shooting and I guess even the Charlie Kirk shooting. I just hate to speculate um because I don't know. I have no firsthand knowledge whether those guys were programmed through radio waves or through their computer activity. So I would never hazard a guess except to say what I've already said that they developed means that we've never been told about many many years ago and I imagine they've evolved to be much more effective now.
Let me interrupt you one more time and I apologize again, but don't you think that they could cast this broad net through these algorithms and other things and maybe they don't know the exact person it's going to affect, but they know what type of person it's going to affect and they know it's going to happen. And that way they can they can't predict when it's going to happen, but they think it will happen. And then that way they can sort of wash their hands of this whole thing and say, "Well, we didn't have anything to do with it." But in effect, they really did because they uh they put this out there and they continue to put it out there.
>> Yeah. My next question would be for either um Dr. Kzer or Mr. O'Neal. Declassified CI records have revealed that officers deployed overseas have used US ID funding as an official cover or USA ID as an official cover for operational work that had nothing to do with the emission of USA ID, i.e. humanitarian aid, medical relief, etc. In some cases, CIA officers operated under US ID. um cover engaged in lethal activity in places such as Vietnam running assassination missions during the war in country from 1965 to 1975. And since MK Ultra seems to have found its origin in drug experiments conducted on prisoners overseas and first by the SS in Nazi Germany and then by US intelligence in camps captured from the Germans, do you believe that USAD may have been used overseas to in further influence or further the MK Ultra, for example, on prisoners of war since part of USAD's mission was to administer drugs to the poor and needy populations? Would the organization have abused its mandate by poisoning foreign populations or creating disassociative states for interrogation or torture?
>> I can't speak directly to aid but it's certainly true that uh during this period after the second world war the United States was using publicly announced and official US government agencies to carry out covert action. We now know, for example, that 5% of all of the money appropriated for the Marshall Plan was diverted for covert activities. Um, a number of US agencies uh were used as cover by covert operatives and uh that aid could have been one of them. Sounds very likely to me. and the NIMH admitted to allowing itself to be used for covert funding of MK Ultra experiments in the 1970s when the operation was disclosed.
>> Thank you. I now recognize Representative Burchett for five minutes.
>> Thank you, Chair Lady. Thank you all for being here. I I remembered when all the talk about MK Ultra broke and then they were talking about lawsuits and there were lawsuits and CIA and the federal government said that this didn't exist and then they came back and said, "Well, it does exist and then uh but we're not doing it anymore." I guess my question to y'all first is which lie do we do we believe? Cuz Thank you. Obviously, there was an open bar before this thing started. So, thank y'all. But, um, Dr. Kendzer,
>> I put myself
>> Hit your mic, brother. You're not on the mic. It's old CIA trick. I'm just kidding. I put myself in the place of one of those senior CIA officers, and I'm thinking to myself, like the ones back in the 1950s, well, other people must be doing this. We'd be falling behind if we don't do it. and nobody's looking over our shoulders and that I think is is your job. So I I think there is a definite u air of urgency and total secrecy. Um, if the if any current research is going on and if it's conducted in any comparable level of secrecy to the original MK Ultra, it's very deeply secret.
>> One thing you said though, it's going to be hard for Congress to act when they're so dadgum compromised. Let's just be honest. I mean, y'all are in the business of of twisting ears and and telling us things that we've done and that that that sways a lot of people up here. Somebody doesn't want to wreck a marriage or their business or lose this glamorous job that we have. Um, and so I I I suspect that has a lot of play into it. Sorry to interrupt you. I apologize. All I mean to say is that I think if there are such projects going on inside the US government uh there there might be a sense that uh we can do this without any hostile supervision. What are the possibilities that that what we've learned in MK Ultra now that it has advanced so much to algorithms and and the computer and getting to loners that some of these loners could through this just mass propagation of whatever you're doing uh could cause someone to maybe take a shot at a president. I I know there's a lot of speculation out there about the uh Butler shooting and I guess even the Charlie Kirk shooting. I just hate to speculate um because I don't know. I have no firsthand knowledge whether those guys were programmed through radio waves or through their computer activity. So I would never hazard a guess except to say what I've already said that they developed means that we've never been told about many many years ago and I imagine they've evolved to be much more effective now.
Let me interrupt you one more time and I apologize again, but don't you think that they could cast this broad net through these algorithms and other things and maybe they don't know the exact person it's going to affect, but they know what type of person it's going to affect and they know it's going to happen. And that way they can they can't predict when it's going to happen, but they think it will happen. And then that way they can sort of wash their hands of this whole thing and say, "Well, we didn't have anything to do with it." But in effect, they really did because they uh they put this out there and they continue to put it out there to whatever method you're talking about. Go ahead, guys. I'm sorry, ma'am. If you want to jump in.
>> She's with NIH.
>> Okay, doctor. Go ahead.
>> It sounds to me like you're describing something like the Martin Luther King assassination. The FBI didn't carry it out, but it created such a climate just denouncing King as the most dangerous man in America and putting out all this material about how he was helping communists that they must have thought it's going to filter down. Somebody will take action and then we can say we didn't have anything to do with it.
>> And James Earl Ray was a third rate thief. He made an incredible shot. One foot on a commode, one foot in a in a bathtub uh leaning out of a window basically. And um the next day the um or that afternoon all the shrubbery was cut in front of the flop house he was staying in. There's a lot on that one that will never be discussed. I have some friends that were there. So I guess I could I'm on pretty close to firsthand knowledge. But um yeah, I'm sorry. I'm probably going to get audited when I walk out of the room. I just I know it. So thank you. Um chair lady, I yield back my four seconds.
>> Thank you, Rep. B uh Rep Burchett. I would like to now recognize Representative Boowbert for 5 minutes.