Transcription
Hello everyone, welcome to my podcast.
Today's guest started his career after 12 standard knocking on stranger doors selling vacuum cleaners and water purifiers. Just him and a doorbell. 25 years later he sits as a national sales head at one of India's growing health insurance company.
Prasad, you started after your 12th standard and began doing door-to-door sales. So how was your experience?
>> If you see today, no one would love to go to sales. Relationship is more important than winning. If you can hold on to your relationship, that helps you to create a lot of money for yourself.
Going door-to-door and facing rejections. How did you handle that?
>> The first thing what he told me is, "You, you only get 'not interested'."
Many young professionals, they find it very difficult to accept that "no." So what would you tell them?
>> I did not say rejection. I take this as an experience.
How important is an MBA in sales after they should start early?
>> Very controversial.
What is that one advice you would give to somebody who is in the front line right now?
>> Yes. So first, I'll give you advice.
What are the traits you think you have as a leader?
>> I know one thing that I have to take care of my people. I always say this, there are good bosses, there are productive bosses.
>> Okay.
>> You have to be a combination of both.
I don't think any parents want their kids to go to sales.
>> Right. So...
>> ...only responsibility is a tal...
>> ...for me that was the only mantra which I felt was good.
If a 23-year-old guy joins sales and he's full of energy but a bit lost in direction, what would you guide him? My question to him, possibly.
Hello everyone, welcome to my podcast. Today's guest started his career the way very few people in corporate India would openly admit: after 12th standard, knocking on stranger doors, selling vacuum cleaners and water purifiers. Face to face, no brand behind him, no appointment, just him and a doorbell. 25 years later, he sits as a national sales head, SVP, at one of India's growing health insurance companies, having built and led sales teams across Mumbai, the entire South, and now the whole country. Just one of the most disciplined, patient, and quietly relentless career journeys I have come across in this space. Prasad Shetty, welcome to the show. I'm really glad you're here.
>> Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. I think very, very happy to see you. Uh, and you're starting a podcast. I think this is really, really good, and it's a need of the hour today. Lot of people into social media, and lot of people wanted to see good people making people understand what is right, what is wrong. I think fabulous job. I think thank you so much for having me here.
Prasad began doing the toughest thing which we consider in sales, that is door-to-door sales. So how was your experience and why did you choose it?
>> If you see today, no one would love to go to sales. And in our generation, there was only responsibility for, for which we get into it.
>> Right.
>> Financially, we were not that great, that's the reason we, we moved out and we started working.
>> Okay.
>> And uh, I don't think any parents want their kid to go to sales.
>> Correct.
>> Because that's the last preference. Everyone want their kid should be an engineer, doctor, MBA.
>> Right.
>> We were good at studies, but we were not good at spending time on studies. And uh, in that era, possibly after completing 12th, we didn't had an opportunity to get into anything else.
>> Okay.
>> And our exposures were not much.
>> So, right. That was sales.
>> So sales choice?
>> Sales was never a choice for any individual.
>> Correct.
>> It was, it is never a choice. And uh, phobias for us, if now I can say, it was an institute.
>> Uh, but when we were working, then it was the most difficult job we could ever manage or imagine.
>> Mhm. The reason is, uh, they, they make you work, they make you work day-to-day, every day. And there are a lot of good guys who were around us,
>> who have supported us to become what we are today.
>> Right.
>> And it was that was a place where we learned what is leadership, standing with us, making us work together.
>> And possibly, whatever we are today, or what I am today, I would give a lot of credit to that organization.
So, going door-to-door and facing rejections, or the door slamming, which we can call. How was it and how did you handle that?
>> So, I'll give you some instance. I joined today, actually, I've completed my 25th year.
>> Oh, lovely.
>> And uh...
>> Congratulations on your journey.
>> Thank you. Uh, first 15, 20 days when my, my L1, my boss,
>> uh,
>> took me to do door-to-door. The first thing what he told me is, "You, you'll only get 'not interested'."
>> Right.
>> Uh, and you'll only get 'not interested'. You'll, if you're lucky, you'll get one someone who will get interested.
>> He kept my thought process so low then,
>> that I didn't get demotivated.
>> So you had no expectation?
>> No expectation.
>> Okay.
>> But he said very clearly that you need to be knocking every day, 100 doors. Uh, you don't know who will allow you to get inside the building, sometime no. And these are the very near to this place and West Samboli, Virai Road, which was a place which I was moving.
>> Okay.
>> And uh, not easy. But uh, few months later, possibly, I started getting some good results.
>> Mhm. And the moment I started getting results, I got motivated and I started pushing myself more.
>> And that has helped me. And uh, as I said, the expectation was so low. Uh, first few months was terrible.
>> But once you start getting results and there was a push from my leader,
>> it has helped me to understand how sales work.
>> And uh, as I said, it was a responsibility for me to take care of family.
>> Right.
>> Right. And with that, it was very difficult to say no to anything.
>> Correct.
>> You have to get up, you have to work, you have to make your life, uh, pay for every day what you spend in the organization. Right? So, I think it was good. It was good.
So, many young professionals, especially in this generation, they find it very difficult to accept that "no." So what would you tell them, that how this "no," or rejection, how to handle rejection?
>> Suri, see, uh, I will not say rejection. Rejection is a, I would say, negative word for today's generation also.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, I take this as an experience. Right.
>> Uh, that "no" is not to you. "No" is to themself. Right.
>> Okay.
>> You are just taking that "no" from them.
>> Okay.
>> Which is, which is fair. And uh, I, so if I have to tell you about today's generation, they are most intelligent people today.
>> Okay.
>> We were not that great then.
>> Right.
>> And uh, they have been exposed to too much of things nowadays. Their understandings are far better than what we are.
>> Uh, but yes, uh, patience level, possibly will be lesser than us.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, if they can manage their discipline and patience well, I don't think rejection will be a challenge for them. Right. Focus, approach, patience, and some discipline in his day-to-day activity. I think that should not be a challenge to anyone of today's generation. But they're extremely talented people, extremely talented.
So, only, only need is patience.
>> Patience and discipline, both. Because see, something which my dad did in his early days, where he had spent his time for 30, 35 years without taking any holidays.
>> Oh.
>> Without expecting any out of, out result out of that. Right. M.
>> And for me, that was discipline. Spending time to your work daily, getting good result, getting bad result, doesn't matter.
>> So, irrespective of the result?
>> Yes.
>> You work relentlessly.
>> Relentlessly, persistently, and make your day work for you.
>> Correct.
>> And I would say most of, in our generation today, or today's generation, they, they work behind results. Result is important, no, no denying the fact that result is not important. But more than result, I think spending a day with good activity is more important.
>> Okay.
>> Right. Getting productive in a day. Productive doesn't mean getting results. Productive means meeting people.
>> Meeting people.
>> That is more important. So that is something which everyone can do it, and that is not difficult, I guess.
So, you said 12th, you could handle this. So how important is an MBA in sales? I mean, if somebody wants to pursue sales, MBA, they should start early.
>> Very controversial. Uh, I have done my MBA, done a lot of studies after that, because for me, learning was important. H.
>> Uh, sales is something where you need to be on field.
>> And meeting people gives you amazing understanding of knowledge.
>> And amazing understanding of information.
>> Which possibly, I don't know, a lot of books will not give.
>> Uh, today, if someone is out on field, you understand the crux of the market better than someone reading a book theoretically.
>> So, it is more practical approach?
>> More practical approach, absolutely. So it is very important for us to understand that if you are an MBA from IIM of the world also,
>> you actually need to go out and meet people.
>> Meet people.
>> And...
>> And then it becomes more difficult if you are an IIM.
>> Uh, that depends on that individual, actually. Because today, best of the startups have created by all of these guys, and they have out, out on field, and meeting people, talking to them.
>> Right.
>> And they were persistent enough to do that today also.
>> Right. I don't think any of the, the best guys of the world I know, especially with the companies like Religare, where I have seen someone at a senior management level who meets every day, two people.
>> Oh.
>> And I don't think it is required for him, but still he does it because he wants to understand the crux of the mind.
>> To be on ground.
>> To be on the ground, right. So that is very important for everyone.
>> I, I will not say ego everywhere, but uh, the expectation changes when you complete your higher degree.
>> And that expectation, sometime kills you.
>> Okay.
>> Right. So that is something which is need to be very careful on.
Right. So you moved from your, uh, Eureka Forbes to something into insurance. So was it a deliberate move, or you just happened to crack it?
>> No. Yeah, nothing. As I said, it was a responsibility to take care of family.
>> Nothing else.
>> Okay.
>> I have not thought about my career then also.
>> Okay.
>> I was with X salary. I have done well there. I've been among top five, top 10 in my earlier unit of days, and then I moved to, uh, other insurance company. The first insurance company of my life, I struggled a lot.
>> Right.
>> Uh, I was not the best amongst all.
>> I was, I was been, I have worked very hard, but I couldn't get the result for few months, rather I would say 7 to 8 months, things were bad.
>> Uh, joining insurance was just a responsibility of adding more money to my family.
>> So, it was just the salary that motivated you?
>> Absolutely, absolutely.
>> Okay.
>> There was nothing else.
>> But...
>> And I never thought about my career also then.
>> Okay.
>> Because...
>> So you had no plan?
>> So definition of middle class is good.
>> We were not at middle class also, right? We used to be at a lower middle-class family, uh, taking care of daily needs and all that stuff, right? So...
>> So salary was the only motivation.
>> Salary was the only motivation. How, how much salary you can increase? And for us, after Eureka Forbes, more than salary, that incentive structure was the most important stuff for us.
>> I think that is the most important thing for all sales guys. I think the incentive is more attractive than the salary.
>> That's your expense. That's your saving. How do you look at? So, right. Okay.
>> Whatever money you make out of your incentive, that's that can be your savings or can be your expense.
>> And we were, we were crazy about making that incentive in our life, right?
>> Our salary was a peanut then, later also. But we were crazy. But as I said, about the insurance company, I struggled big time because I was, I didn't know about insurance.
>> And no support in terms of understanding about insurance.
>> Some inductions, uh, someone standing with you. The few good things which have happened is, uh, my, I was little fortunate that I got good L1s.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, who have kept his hand on my shoulder,
>> and stood beside me and said, "Don't worry." And that person has supported that way. Then I got someone like Sameer Tibrewal, who was, uh, was my again L1, who used to never ask me what I'm doing.
>> Okay.
>> And, uh, that gave me that space, that boss market, that has changed. That has changed. That was crazy time, and I made good money, made a lot of incentive, lot of people work together. And the most important part for me, what I've understood in my last, that era was, relationship is more important than money.
>> If you can hold on to your relationship, relationship can be with anyone other than your family members, that helps you to create a lot of money for yourself.
>> So that has helped in insurance.
So, as you said, that in the initial phase, you didn't do well. So, were you ever in a PIP, or a performance improvement program, or you were always a performer from day one?
>> Seventh, eighth month, I was in PIP.
>> Okay.
>> Right. Because every organization have their own structure and,
>> things are, doesn't work well, and then they tell you, someone told me that day that you have to go.
>> But see, there is one thing, right? Uh, your effort is not on that seventh month. Hm.
>> If you have worked for complete seven months, your result is
>> bound to come.
>> Bound to come.
>> The worry is, we get worried when the PIP enters.
>> M.
>> And that last month, where the PIP comes, and you actually start working, you will not get results.
>> Correct.
>> I was not worried about that PIP, but I was, I was happy that I had put in a lot of effort for last six months, and the result is to come.
>> Whether it will be on the seventh month or eighth month.
>> Okay. The result fetched good on the seventh month, and I retained.
>> You retained.
>> The amount of effort which I put in in that seventh, uh, first say, six months, I got promoted on the same year in next 6 months, because my effort was never less. It was always 7 to 8 months.
Were you never demotivated when you entered PIP? Because what happens is, most, uh, employees, whenever they get a PIP, so they feel this is a ticket to the exit.
>> No.
>> That is how they consider it, and then, huh, and then they get demotivated and in fact stop working and putting in more efforts in their current organization and start looking out. So what do you say to them?
>> See, someone who has not worked for 6 months, for them it is perfect what they're doing. And I, I don't want to be, I want to be candid here, that, uh, see, sales is something where your result will not be on the same day or next day. You need to put your effort, need to be disciplined, work, work.
>> Right.
>> Uh, the only difference what happens, PIP basically means is Performance Improvement Program, right? So PIP is where,
>> your L1 or someone is watching you, what you do, right?
>> Your result, your efforts. And with that result and effort, if your L1 is working with you, great.
>> But if you have already put in your effort and you have a good relation with your team or your member, you are bound to come out of it.
>> Right.
>> Right.
>> I have seen in my last 25 years, whoever I have given PIP, and they have come out, because either I have worked with them, or they have put in a lot of effort, and the result has come that month. Right? I, I can give multiple examples who have been, who've been extremely good, who are working was in PIP, and they are coming out. So basically, PIP is a roadmap where you have to restructure yourself.
So, at the age of 25, you became the branch manager, which is too early for anyone.
>> That was a crazy period because, uh, I wanted to become branch manager in my same organization. Um, I couldn't.
>> Okay.
>> After a change, my whatever number was planned and all that, and,
>> then I moved out. Someone told me that, yeah, there is a position open, and I spoke to them, and they said, "You can come down here," and I joined.
>> Okay.
>> For me, uh, that was a period where I started feeling a ceiling in my life. Ceiling is basically, uh, we in sales, we always say, right? Sales are the guys who are outside on field, not on the office.
>> Correct.
>> And, uh, if you see in your office, if you see up, you'll see ceiling. If you're out on field, sky will be your ceiling. Ceiling.
>> That was a time when I started feeling that, boss, ceiling.
>> Let's, let's go cross our barrier and get into something which will help us to grow.
>> Because someone who was, uh, that period where I was doing amazingly well in terms of frontline sales, move to leadership role, your incentive gets lost, badly.
>> Okay.
>> Right. But I took that risk because, uh, as I said, I want to break that ceiling.
So, did you shift your mindset from FLS to leadership, or how was it, or it happened?
>> A leader then.
>> See, again, I'm saying, see,
>> uh, when you plan your career,
>> H.
>> Then it is fair. When you plan your career, a career starts before you start your career, which is education.
>> People like us didn't had that plan of your career.
>> Right. I wanted to become a branch manager. That was the only thing.
>> Right.
>> Six months, eight months, I was not aware whether I'm a leader or no.
>> Right. Six, seven months when...
>> You were figuring out yourself.
>> The only thing which was there in my mind was, whoever is working with me should be happy.
>> Right. That's a true trait of a leader.
>> Yes, fairly, yes, fairly. No, uh, that was the intent that everyone should be happy.
>> Can I retain my people? That was the only thing which I thought.
>> Seven, eight months later, when numbers were moving well, distribution, I was out on field, people talking to each other. Uh, people were not growing under me then.
>> Okay.
>> And that was something which was concerning me, because I grow, why can't they?
>> We always believe that we are all such Tendulkars.
>> Right.
>> Right.
>> And, uh, we want all our team members also can be, should be a such. That's not possible. That's not possible.
>> Right. Everyone have their own traits of working, everyone have their traits of thoughts.
>> So, uh, but then gradually, I started changing myself, started working on their traits.
>> And few years later, everyone and started growing to another designation. It is always sales, but you move your designation up. And two, three years later, I have understood that, okay, now this is the way I should work. Second, there's a lot of stress, uh, because, uh, your, your expectations versus organization's expectation will never marry.
>> Right.
>> And, uh, you need to stretch. As a branch manager, always we always believe as an org, you need to stretch.
>> We always plan our numbers, but we don't think about stretching it.
>> Correct.
>> So that is something which we started realizing, maybe after 2 years, 3 years, but I have given that time to myself.
>> That with lot of discipline, as I said, discipline is the most important thing about your, uh, discipline doesn't mean coming on time. Discipline means,
>> doing your work daily.
>> Daily.
>> Right. Uh, for your information, I don't know when, when I started my career in 18, and till, till I got married, which is so, 13, 14 years,
>> I have worked for 365 days.
>> Oh.
>> Without any leave.
>> No leave.
>> No leave.
>> No Sundays, no Saturdays.
>> Wow.
>> Because for me, I have to spend 8 to 10 hours. That was myth, possibly, or I don't know whether it was right or wrong, but I feel that if I don't work for a day,
>> I will spoil next three days.
>> Okay.
>> That was my first. You wanted to be in that race. In that race, and that has fetched me a result. As I said, as I said, I've grown well, uh, luckily with God's grace and lot of effort with a lot of people around me.
>> And, uh, few years was to understand what I'm doing, and then things went well, and then got promotion, I got an opportunity to sit in head office for a while, and lot of good people around who have taught me. As I said, uh, uh, learning is one phase which never stops till that time you're working.
Right. So, what is that one advice you would give to somebody who is in the front line right now and wants to move the ladder up and get into leadership? So, one advice, or maybe one mistake that you made which you would have, which you could correct now?
>> Okay. So first, I'll give you advice. Advice is something, it all depends on that individual. Whether if he is happy with what he's doing, till when he has the answer to that, till when, he should continue.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, if he doesn't have an answer and he believes that he wants to grow in his career, then he should take a step tomorrow morning, right? Because frontline sales, there are a lot of people who are doing, and they're making good money. But I don't have an answer till when. If you're creating your asset, you're creating your wealth, and you're planning to start your own tomorrow, fairly good option. M.
>> But if you're thinking about growing into a ladder, then possibly before 30, 32, you should think about getting into a branch manager role.
>> Okay.
>> Because you should give time to yourself, because you will never, you are not a born leader. Everyone are running a manager role, and then they think about getting into leadership.
>> Right.
>> Give your time, two years, three years, five years, in the same organization. That's the most important thing. You should not move your job because,
>> again, there will be new structure and new changes and new managers. So...
>> See, no managers are bad people. Always say, I don't know, uh, the thought processes are different. I also had some different thought processes. Now I have some different thought processes. They are, they are the way they say makes a difference, right? Way the way they say, maybe someone hurts, it hurts their self-respect, sometime.
>> They don't understand that they are saying for your betterment. Nothing will change in your life.
>> Right. If I don't say also, correct. If someone else will do the business for you. But there are times where people say, uh, for their betterment. Again, uh, there is a big, exclamation here that all these things when you're talking about manager or leadership, there's a lot of love and relationship which is very, very important. Every time carrot and stick doesn't work.
>> Right.
>> Uh, you said, uh, love is important. I say, I always say this, there are good bosses, there are productive bosses.
>> Okay.
>> Right. Uh, you have to be a combination of both. So, what are the traits you would say one manager should have?
>> So, uh, the, the intent of that manager should be making his team grow.
>> Okay.
>> Grow, not in terms of career only, mindset, money, and understanding.
>> So, overall development?
>> Overall development. And out of 10, if you at least for six, you'll win the race.
>> Right.
>> Right. Most of the time, we are running behind that number, which is fair, which is, every organization need numbers, quarterly results, and all that stuff are there. But with all that, you need to make people understand.
>> Okay.
>> I have not seen people leaving me till date.
>> Okay.
>> Right. And I, people are there, and they still, we still talk. Whatever company I have worked, we still talk. We have a very good rapport with each other, not because of designation, because they would have learned something from me, and that's the reason they have grown towards grow.
>> That, right. So, I think that is something which is very important for every leader today.
So, in seven years, you became a territory manager. That's bad.
>> So, that's, that's a dream, uh, every, be branch manager, or every leader wants to achieve that, phase, or that position. So, how was that phase for you, and what are the challenges you faced, and how did you overcome them?
>> I would say, I would not, I was not the best one.
>> Uh, there were people who were better than me, and, uh, I personally believe the people who work with me or under me, they were better than me. That's the reason I've grown well.
>> Uh, I, I had some mindset, I had some thought processes, which I, I've tried inculcating to them, but they were amazing people, they were amazing people, they were ready to work.
>> They were ready to grow. My job was to tell them how to grow.
>> Okay.
>> They have done it well. Right. And, uh, seven years of that tenure, few months were in branch, then moved to head office, then come to your. I would not say I've grown well there.
>> Okay.
>> Right. Uh, but yes, the last phase, when I was moving from that insurance company, and, uh, amazing people under me, uh, there, uh, they were amazing champions, I would say. Like, we still have that great rapport with each other, we still meet. These are the people who have made that branch to the best in India, and they're still there. Like, for me, leadership is this.
So, how would you define leadership in, say, three traits, or three qualities you would say?
>> There's no three traits. One trait, very simple trait. If I'm working with someone today, and after 2 years, if I'm leaving that person, he's still doing the same job in a better fashion than what I used to do.
>> Okay.
>> That's my leadership. He should be better than me.
>> After 2 years?
>> He should be better than you.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> I should be insecure about what you're doing. That's absolutely true.
>> And, and if it's doing well, then your leadership worked.
So, now, as a leader, or as a head, when you, uh, interview people for front line, so what are the qualities you look at them, apart from the education or experience?
>> I have not seen education till now.
>> You, you don't see education? So what are, what are the things, or what are the qualities you see?
>> When I talk to someone, I want to understand the intent of that person, right? And, second is, uh, if he has that, uh, vintage ability of staying within an organization for long, because if I have to spend time with that person, he has to be with me for few years, so that he grows.
>> And then he'll make organization also grow. And that second point, which I always see, that he should be with the organization for longer period, any organization where he's working.
>> Okay.
>> And if...
>> So stability matters?
>> Stability. And if someone like an intern, who have completed a year or two, and they're coming,
>> H.
>> Purely intent.
>> Okay.
>> What's his plan for his life? Not five years, short-term, long-term. No.
>> Okay.
>> What's his plan for his life?
>> What's his urge of making his career?
>> H.
>> That, that there is an urge of making his career, then fairly good. I go to a lot of colleges for interviews. Uh, I find that difficulty of getting that urge, other than people who are into...
>> I think it is missing in this generation, the urge, what, what was there earlier.
>> See, people who are into education loans, right? Who have completed their studies, hard-earned money of their parents, or people who have gone for the loan, they are extremely rich people. They need, they need job desperately, right?
>> Okay.
>> And people who are well-to-do, and they are settled, uh, I find that little difficult, because see, sales is not everyone's cup of tea, till that time you don't have that talwar on your head.
>> Okay. So you think only responsibility is the talwar?
>> For me, that was the only mantra which I felt was good, like, okay, responsibility is not only family responsibility, to make your career, responsibility to be something in your life.
So, that fire and the passion should be there.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely.
So, you were doing extremely well in your organization, and then you took up a challenge of joining a startup, which was a health insurance company. So, what made you take that decision, and were your peers and your managers supportive in that decision, because it was quite a big risk at that point?
>> No. So, uh, I had some bad phase in my earlier insurance company, though I did well, and I was doing well, but some bad phase was there in terms of disconnect with my L1, and things didn't work well. And, uh, then this, that time startup, today, one of the best health insurance company working today.
>> Absolutely.
>> Uh, not, I would say best, second best today in India, was doing well, and very, very proud to say that, yes, we were part of that organization. And, uh, that was not a decision which, uh, which was, I would say, that time very risky, I would say, but, uh, but it was well-informed, well-thought, especially, uh, got married, uh, a year before, and most of the decision which I take, I either talk to my mom or my wife now.
>> Okay.
>> And, uh, she was very clear that whatever you wanted to do, it, I'm there with you.
>> Right.
>> And, uh, which has given me a lot of confidence. And, uh, she always says that...
So, that support was important.
>> That risk I took.
>> And, uh, then I think Shah was there, uh, was my boss then, who has supported me to be, uh, joining in Bombay, and, and he was there always, right? So he took care of us well that time, and I think it was a fantastic journey. I think one of the best journey.
So, you started heading one unit, and in within a year's span, you started heading three. So, how was that growth so quick?
>> So, see, we have to understand one thing, that has not happened on day one. Uh, there are a lot of effort which has gone in my earlier assignment, earlier organization, right? And, uh, something which I've done relentlessly for, uh, before working here for 9 years in agency, right? It was not difficult.
>> Oh.
>> To, to do something which was different. I have to only continue doing with that. And I am not the person who is insecure about what will happen tomorrow morning. Let me put my effort today.
>> Right.
>> And, uh, that has helped. And till now, that is helping.
>> Helping.
>> Right. You are, you cannot become successful on the day one when you join.
>> Right.
>> Lot of effort has to be put in every day, without thinking what will happen tomorrow morning.
>> And just put your effort. So I think then one to three, three to 10, or 10 to 100, it's not a challenge.
And once you got settled here, you took another challenge or an opportunity, and you moved to South. So, what was that phase? And how did you manage the change in culture, the change in people, your team changed, and everything changed for you. So, what was that decision about?
>> So, changing was, uh, not my decision. It was given to me.
>> Okay.
>> And I take it. I took it wholeheartedly because for me, as I said, there was a ceiling need to be broke. Correct.
>> Getting into a larger geography, making a bigger span in your life. Uh, they were thinking, I guess, I was a South Indian. I am a South Indian. So they thought that I'll be able to take care of it. They were not aware that I don't know any languages in South.
>> And, uh, fortunately, uh, I was blessed. I was, I, I would say, I was blessed. First, family allowed that.
How did your family react to this decision when you broke the news that we are moving?
>> Mixed reaction. One say no, one say yes.
>> Huh.
>> I will not say who says yes, who say no, now here.
>> But yes, mixed reaction. But, uh, end of the day, see, what happens is, what, what is good for you, right? What is good for your career?
>> You need to take a step forward.
>> There would be time where people would not, because they would definitely love you, right? They love you, and they say something because they care for you.
>> Right.
>> And when you go to some new geography or new place, they are worried how he, he will take care of...
>> How you'll sustain.
>> Yes. But I personally believe, if you really want to grow in your ladder, you should move out of your geography. You should move out of your comfort zone.
>> Okay. Yeah. So that is for me, it was a fresh learning, new learning.
>> And that was something which I was a Bombay guy, worked for my life here, and getting into South, little sophisticated, little professional.
>> Things were different. Things were...
>> So...
Were the managers different as well? I mean, their mindset as compared to Bombay?
>> Definitely different. The people of Bombay are,
>> uh, like they're mad.
>> They're more passionate.
>> They're more passionate. Like, right? It is not difficult. It is not difficult to create that passion on Bombay guys.
>> Okay.
>> I would not say South bad. South were amazing, but they, their passion is into different thought processes, right?
>> They work more on knowledge.
>> They work on more understanding, right? I, for me, that was a different,
>> version of my life where I seen what is professionalism, how do you treat people, uh, how important is knowledge, how important is when you cascade this knowledge down, how, how well you need to follow it. The command on your language. These are the most important things which I learned in South.
So, how much time did you take to go and settle in South and then start getting revenue for the organization?
>> Yeah, as I said, sales is same, right? You go to India, you go to Tumluk, you go to Kashmir, or you go to Kanyakumari, sales is same.
>> Right.
>> How do you express yourself? How do you articulate your words, matters a lot.
>> Fortunately, I was good with my domain. Didn't became difficult.
So, the knowledge, you would say, is the most important key, key factor?
>> For your life.
>> For your life.
>> More than money.
>> More than money.
>> I still learn. I still get into some courses which helps me to grow from.
>> So, you should be the king of your domain. You should know it well for you to progress or meet any geography.
>> Geography actually doesn't matter much. Uh, the culture changes. There is a culture shift compared to Bombay to South.
>> Right.
>> Uh, but yes, if you know sales well, and if your domain is good, and if you're ready to work,
>> Right.
>> Nothing comes free in this world. You have to work. Your lands will change, your demography will change, your geography will change. You should know how to work.
How would you explain the mindset shift from FLS to BM to somebody handling an entire region and then a zone? So, how has that shift been, and how have you changed as a person?
>> So, for the first to second, to FLS to branch manager, I would say that step you need to take. There is no shift, mind shift. You need to take whether you want to do something in your career path.
>> Okay.
>> Right. That's your first move. Branch manager to, uh, any other level, right? There are, there are a lot of designations nowadays. But,
>> I would say from managing one unit to managing multiple units, uh, the basic shift is your mind thinking about what company wants.
>> Okay.
>> Not only your numbers.
>> To align your thoughts with the company.
>> Aligning your thoughts with your company. Absolutely. So, you, you think about what organization requires.
>> Okay.
>> How do you want to grow your organization? How do you want to grow your geography? How do you want to penetrate your geography?
>> The moment you shift your thoughts, not thinking about your today's number, and thinking about how do you grow that number, and making it bigger for the organization, you automatically grow to another level. And very, very basic, small things.
>> Okay.
>> You know, seven, eight people working for you as a branch manager.
>> When do you grow? When out of six, four people become independent. You have more time in your life. You tell your boss, sir, four is independent. Can you give me more?
>> Right.
>> Very simple. I'm not making, I don't want to make a jargon here. Uh, very simple language. Make your team independent so that you have more time to work for something else. Something...
>> Moment you grow to regional level, your penetration works, your geography works, your relationship plays an important role because in regional level, where you're managing multiple units, you are not going and meeting customers there.
>> Correct.
>> You are meeting, uh, hardly meeting your advisors.
>> Right.
>> Meeting your frontline sales, very often, or meeting a branch manager. Your thought structure changes. You cannot use same carrot or same stick everywhere.
>> Correct.
>> Right. Uh, but something which works everywhere is love.
>> Love or money?
>> I would say love first, then money.
>> Okay.
>> Because from day one, you can't give money.
>> But from day one, you want to retain him.
>> Correct.
>> Right. The moment you retain him for a while, and if he's there with you, and he's putting his effort, money automatically flows. And the moment money flows, he is independent.
>> Right.
>> And love plays an important role to regional manager, because, uh, people don't stay with you for a long. The moment...
I think loyalty plays a very important factor in sales. The more, uh, stable or the person who has stayed a very long time with you, aligns more with your thoughts and performs better.
>> I would say more than aligning to my thoughts, he starts thinking about his own career.
>> And my job there would be to make him understand what is important for his career.
>> Right.
>> I am not interested in aligning my thought to him. I would either be more interested in aligning the organizational thought to him.
>> Right.
>> And with that alignment, whether he's making his career. And very small line there, if you shift that, I think people understand what is more important. And as I said, in any business of sales, if you see your benefit, we will never be able to grow. If you see your opposite person who's sitting with you, if you see his benefit, you automatically grow.
So, any manager or any teammate, if you remember, working under you, who was very tough to mold, but you could mold him, and now he's a performer.
>> I, there are multiple. I will not take name again, because bad.
>> To good is very good to talk, but why we should talk bad about them? But I think there are multiple people across the assignments of mine. They have been amazing. Now, I think when I see them today, I go mad. But any particular, uh, person, without naming him, if you could remember how tough he was?
>> I, I don't know which company I should talk, but there are multiple. One again, as I said, uh, but yes, there were people who are unprofessional, in discipline, in terms of punctuality or persistency, everything. And someone who is heading a state today,
>> Okay.
>> And someone is doing extremely well for his family.
>> Okay.
>> And extremely well for his organization. I think that keeps, makes you proud. Right? I think someone looking at me today, they'll also be proud. Right? My, my boss.
So, you had any tough boss, somebody who really was like very difficult to handle, but you managed, treated him well?
>> I, today, whatever I'm able to talk, I, in my early days, I was not. So, boss was not tough.
>> Okay.
>> They were rude.
>> Oh.
>> And, uh, again, I can take, I can't take name of them who were bad. But I can definitely take people who have supported me in my life. And I think person like Sameer Tiwari in ICICI days, in HDFC, there was Radhakrishnan, was or Vijay Venkatan, was who has taught me how to say no. Okay.
>> And, uh, someone like Sanjiv Kapoor, who was, was there, was teaching me how to work. There are a lot of people here. Shail A Shah from Religare, I think someone who I admire, because,
>> whatever I understand today of my domain well, other than the process and products, I think he was one of them who has, who has been with me.
>> Shaped your career?
>> Shaped my mind, not career. Uh, bosses cannot make your career. Bosses helps you to make your mind in a, in that shape where you grow on your own.
>> You're on your own.
>> Right. And I think that is something which, uh, people like him, who have done it. And in Tatas also, there was Surup, who has, was very small stand, but I think amazingly talented people. I still love to spend time with them, and they know that I'll be calling them for coffees, and we, we sit.
Still, you're in good terms with them?
>> Uh...
>> With everyone?
>> Everyone, everyone. I think Parag of the world is someone who I believe that someone who knows relation, relationship compared to anyone of us. He's one of the best. And there is, everyone have their own sweet traits which you need to learn, right? Everyone have taught me something. I have not asked them, but I have seen them, observing them, and I have understood what is required for my career growth. I think from everyone, I've taken small, small things which has helped me.
So, how are you as a leader? Like, what are the traits you think you have as a leader?
>> I actually don't know.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, I, I know one thing that I have to take care of my people.
>> Okay.
>> I know that, uh, if their family is happy, they'll work more, and they'll grow. Second, uh, intent of marrying growth of the organization and my team growth, should always be together.
So, has there been any times where, uh, the companies or the organization's goals and that of the teams are not aligning?
>> That is the time where we come into picture, and we help. So, how do you solve that puzzle?
>> It's not a puzzle, right? See, whenever there is an organization goal, that organization goal has some intent of next 5 years or next 3 years. They don't do random goals and say that, boss, we have to do this. Like, it's a structured thought, lot of budget plans, and lot of visions for tomorrow, and all that. So, uh, aligning with team is to make them understand, right? Why?
>> Why?
>> And, and that why should be very, very strong.
>> Right.
>> If you make them understand why, and what is in for them, if that why works, and what is in for them, they'll work for it. And I don't see there is, there is never a disconnect. It is always a misunderstanding or a miscommunication between two people.
>> And there is, and then there is a role of the leaders, that comes in.
>> Absolutely. Without that, it doesn't work.
>> Okay.
>> Again, I'm saying, I'm, I don't know whether I'm a great leader or good leader. I've been blessed with good people around me.
>> Right.
Uh, under me or above me, who have taken care of me well.
If a 23-year-old guy joins sales and he's full of energy but a bit lost in direction, and you have 3 minutes with him, what would you guide him?
23 year old. See, uh, my question to him possibly will not be related to work. I want to understand what is his hobby, and uh, why he's into sales, what's his plans in his life, where he wants to travel, what he wants to do in his life. Because someone at 23, if he's entering sales, he is he's passionate, but at the same time, I think he had some back financial issues, possibly would have entered now, or you have completed his MBA and he wants to complete his education loan again, as an assumption. I'm not saying that this is this would be the reason, but I want to really want to understand why, why he entered sales. Why, what is his family doing, what is his life happening, what is his day schedule? Uh, reason of asking all these questions would be, uh, there are a lot of questions in sales when you ask, right? Lot of answers when you give. You solve all your problems on that answers. And there are times in sales where you feel dejected, right? You feel irritated because of your boss or because of your customers. Okay? And lot of rejections, lot of time where you feel that why I am here. And that is the time you have to pause yourself and think about why did you joined, right? You didn't joined because you had a fancy salary. You had joined because you want to make your career. And when you want to make your career, all these challenges would definitely come. Right? And you should always say that boss, I am lucky key that I'm getting all these challenges in my early days. If you face this or if you fight this challenge, your later stage will be most happy life of your life. Okay. So enjoy that pain, enjoy that low phase of your life.
So now you're talking about rejection. Uh, was there any phase, Prasad, in your life where you faced a lot of rejection or where you regretted your decisions and there was some kind of depression, and how did you manage that phase?
Professionally, no. Personally, possibly yes. But uh, in our time, I don't know whether depression what was existing. Nowadays, it exists. Exists. Right. So professionally, no, because uh, I have never regretted about my decisions. Okay. Right. Uh, regrets create guilt. Okay. And uh, we have very small brain in our life in our body, right? You don't need to give so much of pressure to your brain on regret, guilt, ego. You have small brain, small life. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Nothing changes in this world. If you work, you will make your career. If you don't work, someone else will make their career. Correct? Right. So, I have never kept any regret. If I have taken any assignment, then it is my responsibility to complete that assignment. Okay. Right. And anyone at that age of between 25 to 35, if they have taken some assignment, you need to ensure that you complete your assignment. Right. Why leaving an organization, joining another organization for that 30, 40,000 rupees salary and then again thinking about company? Correct? If you are in sales, then you should not do it. I will not talk about any other domain or any other company because if you stay for more than a year, you understand the business. If you stay for more than two years, your experience and maturity helps you to grow your business. Right. Right. And maybe if you stay for third year, you start intending and think about getting growth in your life. Okay. Right. So experience is important, learning is important, and growth is important. For that, one company will give you better option than giving you to a multiple companies because again, you're starting from scratch. Right. That doesn't help. So that's my thought. Maybe thought would be different for different people.
You have watched a lot of first-time managers step into large teams and struggle in a very predictable ways. What are the most common mistakes or the patterns they keep repeating?
So what happens is there are two, three aspects out here. One is uh, normally what happens is when you, when you go from one level to another level, normally people, I would say, I will not generalize it, but normally people start loving their chair. Okay. Right. And they feel that now I have done it, now others should do it. That's a common mistake which I could see. Right. Uh, when you get into a leadership role, your job is to teach people, right? Uh, you don't need to, you need to make them understand how to work, and they have to work. Loving chair is something which none of them should do it in their life. Okay. The moment you start loving your chair, you, you, you make your halt on your growth and success because you believe that I have reached where I need to reach. Okay. And you become stagnant. Again, stagnant, will not say because mentally you get stagnant. M. I feel that was my pa. If that is the case, then you get stuck. And any any bigger other than the designation, nowadays people give a lot of designations are there. Uh, one unit, multiple units, zone, and then you get into a channel. For me, these are the three, four layers. Right. Uh, normally what happens is you get restricted to your multiple units and your CTC goes very high. You restrict yourself to M because you don't want to leave that geography. You have been happy and comfortable with that geography because getting into a zonal level, you might need to think about moving from that geography because someone else is there who's taking care of it. So there are times where your CTC goes up, your contribution don't go up, and you get stuck. And then we start blaming companies, at, start analyzing where you're going wrong. I always say this to a lot of people and to my team members also, if you want to grow from one level to another, there are different understanding and knowledge which is required. Right. And the important part is, uh, I'll give you my example. I, I was, I was doing my post-graduation diploma in financial analyst. I love finance. But I'm part of sales. Okay. Right. And I, I was, I, I, when I did my MBA, because it was important. Then when I, but I didn't, I did post-graduation diploma. I was doing post-graduation diploma financial analyst purely because I want to understand the economics of business, which I never understood earlier. I, I used to be the best guy for sales, managing team, but that doesn't work after certain level. That is important, right? Creating contribution, creating contribution and managing a business are two separate stories. Right. And people normally miss that, uh, that that line of reaching your thought process towards understanding the business, managing the business. And, uh, for me, ownership is very important, right? I want to own that business. I want to run that business. And, uh, that will only happen when you start thinking about that processes. And then only you move from multiple to zonal level and zonal to senior level. Right.
What are the habits or the daily habits which a young professional should inculcate to grow in life, especially in sales?
Not in sales, I would say everywhere. Uh, give work eight hours. Okay. Right. Um, I will not say more than that. Uh, but at least at frontline sales or leadership level, at least give 8 hours. 8 hours. And hardcore 8 hours. Not having tea, coffee, cigarette, spending time, gossiping. No. No. Give good 8 hours to your work. Correct. I think every one of us would have done that only were doing well. And if you give religiously productive 8 hours, most of the stuff is taken care of. Okay. You don't need to be spending 14 hours, 18 hours doing a thing, right? Sitting in front of laptop or sitting in front of computer. Give good productive 8 hours and that will help.
Suppose any manager is tough and that particular employee is not able to grow. What should he do or what should be the strategy to tackle that manager?
Too difficult word again, strategy for a frontline manager. Even if he's a branch manager, at times, all L1s are not same. I agree. I agree. So how do you tackle that situation? My always thought was now, not then. Then I was a little different, but now I personally believe that, uh, you should confront your L1 and understand. Okay. What is his thought? And don't go to change his thought. Okay. Okay. Boss change, boss is always change. Boss is always right. Again, is the wrong line. But I would say, what he is able to see, you are not able to see, right? Okay. And maybe he's seeing something which will come tomorrow, good or bad, which you will never be able to understand. Okay. Right. So confront, sit, speak, understand. You might feel that, okay, if this guy is tough, there is a reason of being tough. Right. As I said earlier also, good boss and productive boss. There are times boss is tough because he's seeing something which is coming for you, for your career. Okay. Which he's not able to speak to you today, but he's being tough so that you can continue doing what you do supposed to do. Mhm. So if you confront it, you'll be, it will be good for both to understand. And L1 normally or your boss normally, whenever they are speaking, uh, they doesn't speak to one individual, right? They speak to seven, eight people. And right, the discussion is not customized, which is fair. And that time, he will say a lot of stuff which is may not be required to you because you're doing extremely well, but you're feeling hurt. And there are people who are not doing well. For possibly it would be for them. Right. And if you understand that, your life becomes more easier, easier.
So Prasad, last question for you. Throughout your journey, right from knocking every single door to today, sitting as a senior vice president, what is that one thing you're really proud of? Not your title, but something that you really achieved.
I would say journey. I would say experience. M. Uh, I would say something which has been amazingly well when you go back and see what you did and what you are today. Uh, uh, lot of, lot of credit to family. Okay. A lot of credit to God. And lot of people, uh, who have supported me for what I am today. Uh, no credit taken by anyone. But I think, uh, something which was very h, very happily if I can share today is the journey which I have gone through. I think, uh, very, very persistent journey. Uh, enjoyment journey. Uh, I, for me, enjoyment is work. Right. And I love my work. I love my work to the core. Right. For me, this is the most important thing in my life. Till the time I'm working, and I don't know till when I, I am not saying that I should, people should remember me for for their life. But if people are happy with what I did for them and if they have grown, I am happy. I'm, I'm blessed. Right. So, uh, journey and experience is the most two important thing for me.
Right. So, one last advice you would want to give to the audience who is watching this episode right now.
Uh, whatever you're doing in your life, uh, try spending time on something which is really productive. Uh, my definition of productive is something where you're getting some outcome. Uh, I will not, uh, restrict you by saying that, uh, social media or this or that. No, if you are getting some productive out of it, please do it. Uh, second, very important, don't stop learning. Uh, learning is not only going to a college and studying. Learning is something which you can get it from your parents, from your friends, from your customers, from your bosses, from anyone. Don't stop learning. Uh, learning will enhance your knowledge. Learning will make you tomorrow bigger and better. And this will definitely help you to grow in your life. Last, very important is, try saving money for yourself because, uh, the day you get retired, your designation, no one will ask. The house where you stay, no one will ask. But definitely when you, when you go back and check your bank balance when you get retired, should be hefty for you and for your family, right? Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you Prasad for this candid conversation. It was really here and for sharing your journey so generously with us.
It was my pleasure because I know you from good years and I have seen your struggle also and very, very proud to see you here today. Thank you so much. And, uh, doing this podcast and I think you'll do really well with what you're doing. Thank you. And I think it's a great experience with you. Thank you. Thank you so much.
To everyone listening this, if this episode hit home, share it with someone who is in the early grind right now. Someone who's on door number 50 of a 100 rejections. Someone who is quietly wondering whether the path is worth it. Tell them it is. Tell them the path is long. Tell them it is worth every bit of it. And tell them it starts with one door. I'll be back again. Until then, keep selling. Keep leading and keep going. Thank you.