Transcription
A lot of people use the terms brain and mind interchangeably. You're differentiating between the two.
They're absolutely different. We know now because we can put you in a scanner and we can prove it that when you think things, your brain responds to what you are thinking. And so that means there's an element that's not material. There's a part of you that existed before your body did and will exist after your body does and will exist eternally if you're a Christian and that we would call mind.
What advice as a physician would you give to people who are experiencing things in their brain because of what they've chosen to put into their mind and at the speed?
Most of us are not in actual physical danger and yet we live in a state of almost perpetual anxiety because of the inputs that we're giving ourselves. People think that they're just scrolling along and what they're actually experiencing is a Dr. Lee. Welcome to the show. Welcome to At Home. We're so glad you're here.
So great to be back with you, Addison and Julie. Thank you so much.
Yeah. And you're a return guest. So it is back with us because Yeah.
I know. And we've we've been friends since 2020.
Yeah. That's right.
Yeah. We got to meet each other just before COVID broke out.
That's right.
Yes. And I remember getting to meet you and I was struck by you were in a setting. We're by ourselves. We were preparing to go on and do something and we had this exchange interaction. I actually left my phone with you. Do you remember that? I left I left my phone with you. We had never met, but I left my phone with you because I wanted you to have a conversation with someone.
And then we were just destined to be friends from there.
That's right.
It just happened.
That's right. You put me on the phone with your mom.
I did a few minutes after we met.
That's how he vets new people.
That's actually what I do.
I call my mom.
That's what I do to everyone that I meet.
Oh, wow. I just I really trust my mom's judgement. Yeah.
I'm sorry. You are special, but I do that to everyone. I mean,
it's her full-time job.
But but since then, she actually is funny enough. She texted me today and she when she heard that you were going to be in town, which funny enough, we actually told her a month ago you were going to be in town. But I guess it became real to her today. She she's like, "Will you ask Dr. Lee if he's going to be in town tomorrow? I would love to capture an episode with him." So, all of the Bever have been impacted by your life, by your work.
Thank you.
By your testimony.
Yeah.
I've read three of your books now. So, this is the third. The life-changing art of self-brain surgery. I had to look at it to make sure I got all the words. That is a long title.
Long title.
It's a long title, but I feel like every single word was chosen for a reason, which we're going to get into that.
Um, but I just wanted to thank you before we go in. You are someone who's profoundly impacted my life. You are someone who writes with great clarity and authority. And when I read your writings, I feel like I'm looking over your shoulder.
And I'm experiencing the moments with you.
Oh.
And I love great writing. As as an author, I love and appreciate great writing. And I love and appreciate great content.
And you are someone who fuses great writing with meaningful content. Content that is full of substance and hope and promise and application.
Thank you. So, so I just I'm gushing a little bit at the beginning because I am a friend, but I'm also a fan. So, so I want you to know thank you for taking the time to come and be a part of this show.
It's an honor, Addison, and your friendship has meant a lot. Um, your endorsement of my previous book, and just you and your family are precious to me and Lisa, and we're grateful for you.
And Julie, you want to share anything before I dive in?
Um, was your book title at all connected with Marie Condo's life-changing magic of tidying up?
No.
Um, that was kind of a joke that was being taken out. But no.
I got some like chuckle in my brain. So, I'm glad that there was someone else's made that connection.
That's right. Actually, when I was reading it just now, I had the thought because the first time I read it out loud because I always forget titles of books because I start reading the book and I forget the title because I get caught up in the content. But when I read it out loud, I'm like, man, this does sound like something. So, it's funny that you said that. I feel like I I need to mention too that you are a neurosurgeon.
Yes.
Just for people to understand as we're engaging this conversation.
So when we're talking about this idea of self-brain surgery.
You're not just like a self-help guru.
You are a brain surgeon.
That's right.
Who's engaging this from a place of discipline and expertise and experience. And I would love to hear from you as as we dive into this because there's been a lot of content that people have written or that's been circulated about this idea of renewing the mind.
Right? And a lot of it feels metaphorical. It feels abstract. It feels like an idea. But what you've done with this book is I feel like you've brought us into the operating room both as doctor and patient with your language and your invitation to understand this process and it went from this abstract of idea of mind renewal to this idea of the art and it is an art.
Art of self-brain surgery. Can you talk about how we got to this point? We were able to articulate this in book form.
Yeah. So the real genesis of it was I was practicing neurosurgeon for 20 years and along the way also a Christian my whole life. And traditional neuroscience and really modern culture teaches everybody that we're pretty much just what our brains do, right? You you get your brain from your genetics, your parents, your upbringing, and then you can mess it up with your traumas and your tragedies and the things that happen. And everybody really thinks that if my brain does a certain set of things and I'm obligated to live a certain way. That's pretty much what neuroscience teaches. The last 300 years really, Western science particularly has taught this idea of reductionism, materialism, which is.
If you understand the parts from which something is made, then you can reverse engineer it and see what that thing's going to do. And so everybody thinks if my brain is this, then I am that.
And so it's interesting as a Christian, you already don't believe that entirely because you believe that after your body is gone and your brain is buried or cremated or whatever, there's some part of you that's still alive, right? Soul, mind, whatever you want to call it. Um, but I'd never really put those two things together as how important it is to understand that mind and brain aren't the same thing.
Mhm.
And then at the same time, the last 25 years or so, modern neuroscience is starting to be able to take pictures of what your brain does when it's when you scan the brain, we can see what it's doing with functional imaging. And so, as you know, we lost our son Mitch in 2013. And at the time when Mitch died, Lisa and I had an office on the Auburn University campus. And our building housed one of the three most powerful MRI scanners in the world at the time where they were doing this functional imaging research. And so one of the first things that happened after we went back to work was we'd been invited to a meeting to watch some of this research take place and they put people in the scanner and they would ask them questions like, "Julie, think about the worst thing that you've ever felt." And we could watch that person think about something and then watch on the screen as the neurotransmitters in their brain changed and their brain activity changed in response to their thought. And then we would see what happened to their vital signs that you the heart rate would go up and the blood pressure would go up and the respiratory rate would go up. And we saw in real time someone thinking something that turned into so mental activity that turned into brain activity that turned into body activity.
Mhm.
And then they would say, "Okay, stop thinking about that bad thing. And now think about the best day of your whole life. The day your first child was born, the day, you know, Addison proposed, whatever is your happiest memory." And the brain changed in response to that thought. Different parts of the brain came online, the frontal loes light up, and different neurotransmitters fire. And then the heart rate calms down, the body changes. And Lisa said, "That reminds me of Philippians 4." Yeah.
Like be anxious for nothing. When you when you're grateful, you're not anxious. And if you think different thoughts, your your life is going to change. And it just clicked. Something clicked in me. The Holy Spirit, the great physician said, "That's exactly what you do in the operating room." Like, you go to surgery and you intentionally make structural changes in your patient's brain for the purpose of helping their life in some way.
Yeah.
And when you change from one thought to another thought, it's not a metaphor. You literally structurally change what your brain does. You turn genes on and off. You light up different parts of the brain. You change blood flow. You change neurotransmitter and hormonal levels. And you change your body physiologically. It's surgery. Like if you learn that if you change what you think about, you change how your brain works, then all of a sudden that 300 years of western medicine and western science saying that we're just the parts from which we're made and we can't do anything about it. It's not true. And we can prove it now. And that's what the Bible's been saying all along.
So when I realized that's the same thing as surgery that I do in the operating room, that's when it all came together for me. And that's the only path forward that you have because you're not stuck with the brain that you have. You can change it if you change what you think about.
Groceries are wildly expensive now. We have four children and so cooking for a family of six is no joke. I have loved though being on a subscription with Good Ranchers where the meat comes to our house and then I'm able to see what's missing, what I need for meals for the week. It's a game changer and it's great meat. I mean, I am a food snob and it is excellent meat in our freezer. We just get it out. They even have these easy thaw bags. I mean, I could go on and on and on.
Julie, what's amazing is if people subscribe and use the code bever. Okay. So, that's just simple bever. They can get up to $500 off in one year.
That's great.
Isn't that amazing?
Yeah.
And they get additional $25 off their first order.
That's right, Addison. Code bevere. Go to goodranchers.com. American meat delivered.
I want to highlight something because I think a lot of people use the terms brain and mind interchangeably.
You're differentiating between the two.
They're absolutely different.
Can you can you talk about that just just to help those of us who normally use those interchangeably?
Yes. So, a lot again a lot of traditional neuroscience says mind is a construct. It's just something that neurons generate.
Mhm.
And we know now because we can put you in a scanner and we can prove it that when you think things, your brain responds to what you are thinking. And so that means there's an element that's that's not material that we would call it mind, soul, if you want to call it that. Um the Bible uses heart, mind, soul interchangeably really.
But there's a part of you that existed before your body did and will exist after your body does and will exist eternally if you're a Christian. And that we would call mind. And what we know now is mind is actually in charge of brain. The system is built. You're designed not to have your brain push you around and have your thoughts and feelings create your reality for you. But you're designed to put your mind in charge of your brain. The Bible calls it renewing your mind, right? Not be conformed to what the world wants you to think about, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. That's Romans 12:2.
Yeah.
You're designed to be in charge of what you think about. That's 2 Corinthians 10:5. Take your thoughts captive.
Yeah.
Right. And then the whole chapter of Ephesians 4, if you read it tonight, you'll see self-brain surgery in it. Ephesians 4 says, "What's wrong with people that don't know the Lord? They get on, they get into all these crazy behaviors, but it starts with their futile thinking." What Paul says, your thinking is futile. It's wrong. And then in 4:23, he says, "But you can be transformed by the you can have a renewed mind. You can be transformed in your mind." And so mind is not the same as brain. And it's not subservient to brain. It's in charge of brain.
Yeah. But the problem is most of us don't ever know that. And so the way the brain works is if you keep thinking the same thoughts, you keep getting the same results.
So until you decide to change what you think about, you're stuck with how things have always been.
Can I ask you a totally offthe cuff question that just came to my brain? So with the um speed with which people are taking in information right now.
Yeah.
Where your where things are moving from your mind to your brain sometimes quicker than you can even keep track of in order to be able to do the selfbrain surgery.
Mhm.
What what advice what help as a physician would you give to people who are experiencing things in their brain because of what they've chosen to put into their mind and with and at the speed with which they've chosen to just I'm thinking of people who are and it's it's so many people.
Who are just scrolling and kids who are at an age where their brain is.
Um in this developmental stage where they're just taking in so much where.
They may not even have the cognitive ability to retrace where certain things are coming from. Because it's.
It's I'm I'm what I'm imagining is like stacks of paper just getting stacked on top of each other, on top of each other, on top of each other.
Yeah. So, what you're getting at is that we're putting a lot of inputs into our brain and we're reacting to them. And then in in in real terms when you when you input something and you react to it with with thinking you're writing code in your brain to make that real to you.
Yeah.
And so I think an important discipline that we all should have is to spend some time setting our own agenda with the Lord in the morning. The quiet time in the morning is the most important part of your day because you can attend to what you intend attend to what you intend to pay attention to.
The day because attention is a capital. Yeah.
Then you only have so much of it.
And so this problem with scrolling on social media is it creates this constant sort of dopamine loop where you are incentivized to scroll to the next hit.
Yeah.
And whether it's helpful or harmful to you, you're continuing to do that because your brain is saying, "Okay, that's a reward." And you're going to keep doing that. But what you don't recognize is that you're then allowing an outside force to control the agenda of what you pay attention to and what becomes real in your life. So I think that morning time where you set your agenda, you spend some time in the word, you put some truth in your heart. So one of the important things I'm sure we'll talk about later is this idea that most of our thoughts aren't true. That about 80% of the things we think about are not true.
And so if you learn to think about what you think about instead of just being inside your thoughts, then you can say, "Wait a minute, I'm going to replace these 80% of my thoughts that aren't true with some things that are true." And then the tissue transplant donor base, if you will, needs to come from something that's absolutely reliable and true. And that's why I think the word is so important.
Because the Holy Spirit works as Jesus said in John by reminding us of things that are true.
And if you don't know them, you can't be reminded of them. So if I think if you set your agenda in the morning and get quiet and get still and listen and put true things in your heart, then as you're encountering these things during the day, you'll have a set of tools by which you can challenge those things that are not true, not helpful. That's what Philippians 4 says, things that are lovely, things that are good, things that are trustworthy. Right? Think about those things and you won't be anxious.
It's like your filters being reset daily.
I love that you called out the morning. I think of Psalm 53 where David says in the morning, yeah.
I direct my prayer or I offer a sacrifice to you. And he says, and I watch.
So it's this idea of my attention is shifted by how I prepare, how I engage my morning. And you say something in the book, you say attention changes the world. Another place you say research shows that a huge percentage of our automatic feelings and thoughts are false. You just said 80%.
That's right. And and yet we live in this world where people are encouraged to be authentic, to be true um to themselves, whatever whatever language you want to use.
And and normally I I would say that languages do not allow there to be any distinction or separation between what you feel.
And how you respond. And in the book you use the language you say feeling and emotion.
You say the feeling comes from the brain. The emotion is how the mind engages the brain.
That's right.
I I would love for you to speak to how this narrative of there not being separation or distinction between the two actually creates a self h false version of the self and then essentially creates that on loop.
That's right. Yeah. This idea that you can trust your feelings is, I think, a great work of the enemy because we know now that most of the things that we feel are your brain trying to make sense of the environment that you're in, whether that environment is real or imagined. And one thing that most people don't know, I think, is that your brain has no mechanism by which it can discern something that's really happening or something that you're just worrying about or thinking about. And you react the same way physiologically and neurochemically to a perceived threat or a real one.
And so that means most of the things that you feel because most of us aren't in physical mortal danger most of the time. There's not a bear that's going to run through the wall here in a second.
Well, you never know here.
For the most part.
Most of the time most of us are not in actual physical danger. And yet we live in a state of almost perpetual anxiety because of the inputs that we're giving ourselves. And so then if you can understand that and again get sort of into this metacognitive this this sense of getting outside your brain and looking at what you are thinking about and what you are feeling instead of just reacting to it.
Yeah.
Once you're aware that it's a big pot of untrustworthy things that are happening in your brain all day long. Then you can start to question them. Get curious about the things that you think and feel and start to investigate it. That's what that take thoughts captive idea is about before you take action on it. I use the language, I call it biopsying your thoughts. And the reason I say that as a brain surgeon, obviously, it's not just a metaphor, but but the idea is if you come into my office with a headache, right? And you say, "Hey, doc, I've got a headache."
If the first thing I said was, "Well, let's go to the operating room and I'll cut your head open and take a look." You say, "Whoa, time out." Right? Don't you need a scan, some data, some information. Right? You need.
You need to do something before you take that drastic action.
Right? And I would say, "Okay, well, let's get a scan." And the scan then shows something concerning a spot. Then I want to do something pretty minimally invasive to get a piece of that tissue so I can figure out what it is so I can put together a treatment plan that's not going to make you worse but actually might save your life or make you better. Right.
Yeah.
So if you then understand that 80% of your thoughts and feelings are false and generally negative and most of them by the way are just repeats of the things you thought about the day before. Yeah.
We create this life where we're thinking the same thoughts all the time and then we wonder why we never change. It's because you're always telling your brain the same stuff, right?
So, if you can understand that and develop this system where you get curious about your thinking and bias it before you take action on it.
Then you're only ever taking action on thoughts and feelings that are true. And how much of your clutter and how many of your mistakes is that going to eliminate? How many of us have.
Gotten a text message that we misread and we fired back some angry response or got mad about something in a whole? Never. Of course not. But you spend the whole day being mad about something and then you read it again and I left a word out of that when I read it wrong. He wasn't saying what I thought he was. I'm sure sorry I sent that message. And then you spend a lot of time apologizing or trying to make up for things or you hurt somebody with your words and it was never true in the first place.
So that's why it's so important to discern the difference between feelings and facts. The difference between feelings and emotions that your brain's trying to make sense of or your mind is trying to put you in command of. Where would someone start to be able to have that ability, that metacognition ability?
I think the first thing is to say, okay, I'm just going to believe that the system is actually designed to give me some agency instead of making me believe that I'm obligated to do what my brain tells me. The first thing is just buy in that this is not, like you said earlier, it's not a metaphor and it's not just Bible people talking about scriptures and making trying to make some sense out of it. It's actually what neuroscience is showing. Even though a lot of neuroscientists won't yet admit to what we're seeing, but what we're seeing is when you think one thought and not another thought, your brain behaves differently in real time. There structures called microtubules.
That connect neurons. And then that's how synapses, these connections, the cables that run from one neuron to another start with microtubules. And those microtubular tracks to connect a new neurons start within seconds of you changing from one thinking to one thought to another thought within seconds. And it takes repetition and time to really build robust tracks because it's really easy to fall back into the old synapse that you have. So if you say what's your first step the first one is buy in. Believe that my brain really will respond to different thinking and believe that this is power and agency that my creator gave me to get on top of this loop of doom and worry and and and fear that the world is throwing at me all the time. It's what does the enemy want me to do? Wants me to be afraid. Wants me to to be scared. Wants me to be worried. And what does the Bible say? 2 Timothy 1:7, God didn't give you a spirit of fear, but of power and love and of a sound mind. So believe that you have a sound mind by design. Right? I found two scriptures recently. One's in Mark and one's in Luke. And I'd never heard it before. I've read it a million times, but I never heard it this way. Jesus said in two different places, be very careful how you listen.
Not just what you hear, but how you listen. Why is that? Because we know now from quantum physics, we know from neuros from neuroscience research that the way you pay attention to things and the the the things you choose to pay attention to become more real in your life. Not because it's some sort of magic manifestation thing, but because the part of your brain called the reticular activating system that serves as a filter.
I talk about the RS all the time. Oh, yeah.
The the reticular activating system. Basically, when you tell your brain that you want to have a particular experience or that you're looking for a certain thing or that you're worried about a certain thing, your brain begins to filter out everything that doesn't support that command. So, you literally are creating your own reality. Not in the sense of I'm going to manifest a million dollars, but in you're going to miss things in your life that are there because you're filtering to not look for them.
Yeah.
Or you're going to see things that you didn't see before because you've changed what you were looking for.
Gatekeeper of consciousness.
It's exactly right. It's it's it's real. It's real because God made it that way. That's why we be careful what you listen to. Be careful how you listen. Be careful what you look at. Be careful what you put in your mind because your mind is in charge of your brain.
Yeah.
So I mean I'm not wanting to like harp on this lane, but then we have to talk about algorithms and how when you react highly charged reactions to content feeds you more of that content.
That's right.
And then you at some I mean I will have the same conversation. I don't know what's happened recently, but it seems like it has amped up the division in particular where I am having the same conversation with people on either side of this division to a degree where I'm like, this is very bizarre and scary.
You're saying conversation but very different response or a similar spirit but different subject matter.
A similar spirit, different emphasis.
Different emphasis, but the same intensity and emphasis where they're all seeing the same videos and over here they're all seeing the same videos. They're not seeing each other's videos or each other's content and people are aware of it because I'll even see sometimes in comments like, "How did this even get in my feed?" Right? So people know that what's being fed to them is so strategically picked for them and for what has fired them up in the past or gotten engagement.
To manipulate the feelings and direct the emotions.
Yes, there's a the manipulation that's a part of this. And I know I like I could definitely go down this conspiracy. Well, I think it's it's a really important point because people think that they're just scrolling along and what they're actually experiencing is a crafted a crafted and directed way to try to get them to behave in certain ways and pitch certain advertising to them and control their behavior, understand their interest so they can feed them certain kinds of content. And so if you if you then allow all that into your brain and you don't question it, then you're letting big companies or other people set an agenda for you that you believe is real for your life. And this can feed into concepts of your identity, who you think you are. It can feed into your mental health. And if you're a parent and your kids are out there un bettered, unobserved on social media, they can begin to believe that these things are looking out for them and helping them and making them understand me on a level that nobody else does. And it's actually harming their brain and making them more anxious and making them more vulnerable to mental health struggles.
Yeah. I mean the suicide rates alone where there's so much specifically on Tik Tok and Snapchat so much suicide and just highly highly charged emotional content.
That's right.
That kids are just taking in so much of it.
Yeah.
And it's I just want to know like what as parents do you just need to.
To block it out to help them understand? a lot of this. How much are they able to even understand that though?
You're saying with their brain, like the fact that the the prefrontal cortex hasn't even been fully developed until for a male until what? Mid20s, late 20s.
Yeah.
And what what is it for a female?
Mid20s. And for females, a little bit earlier.
Little earlier.
15. So, so they're navigating this this world of profound manipulation. And I think it'd be good to speak to that. But then there's this other component that I would say too because the enemy specializes in confusion and accusation and and I I think about marriages being under attack because God designed marriage as a place for human flourishing and you talk about epigenetics and the effect our decision to engage selfbrain surgery the effect that that will have on generations to come that it could have on generations to come which I I think is beautiful and worth talking about but also within context of marriages like we've been married married almost 20 years now. 17 years. Is that almost 20? Is that round up? Can I round up? Okay. 17. I mean, we're close.
The doc said yes.
17 20 17 years. We married for 17 years now.
I didn't get a 20 year.
I've been in love with her. Yeah. I've been in love with her for almost 20 years. Um, and what I'm noticing now that I've been married alongside other people for extended periods of time, what I what I've noticed is these narratives that I would say are the um, what would you say like the reflection of seasons of emotions and ideas of who they are and who they aren't that drive how they engage each other. And and there's this lack of willingness to look again, to behold, to see something new. Um, to be surprised by what they see and to be full of hope that the the mind over their marriage, if you will, could change. The narrative over their marriage could change with their participation. We were talking about this yesterday a bit and you said you want to even write into that in the future, which I do want to call out before we answer this with the book. One of the things I love about this book is almost half of the book is very practical exercises and you also go through something called the the 10 I want to get right ten commandments of self brain search.
You go you very systematically and clearly it's extremely accessible. You break down these ten commandments that will help one understand like first okay agree with the idea this is possible and then grow in their mastery or proficiency when it comes to self-brain surgery. And I I love that you're not just giving us theory, you're giving us practices. You and Lisa, y'all have an incredible story because of what y'all have navigated together. I would love to hear from you how this has played out in your marriage, particularly how y'all navigated your own individual experience with with navigating something that's extremely difficult, the loss of one son, but then also how you navigated it as a couple together. because I I think it's stunning the way y'all grew stronger as a couple in the wake of that.
Yeah. Thank you. Um, I think the the first part of that is when you go through something devastating as a couple, you recognize almost immediately that it is a great threat and it's a great opportunity at the same time because we're going to grow through this together or it could tear us apart. And there, you know, the numbers on what happens to marriages after a child dies are stunning. And for us, we had another child still at home. Our youngest daughter was still in high school when Mitch died. And we owned a business together. We worked together every day. And it was a decision like this is not going to be something that drives us apart because we have to have each other or we won't survive this.
Yeah.
And so that I think the selfrain surgery piece is this idea that you that Philippians 2 thing where it says value of think of others more highly than of yourself. Right? If you spend time in your mind every day thinking of all the different ways that your spouse is letting you down or isn't meeting your expectations or is busting your chops or is all the things that people ruminate on.
Yeah.
Then this neuroplasticity thing kicks in where you start to build systems in your mind of why you deserve to be treated better than that and looking out for them to offend you in some way. Your dad's written the best book on offense that there ever was. But this this idea of I'm convincing myself that I need to be looking out for the next time that person is going to harm me or fail me or let me down.
And then over time without the other person even knowing it, you're building a case for separation and an opening for the enemy to lie more to you about that.
So if you then take the high ground there and you say, "I know that what I'm doing I'm getting better at on the neuroplasticity side. I'm wiring my brain for my harm or for my good and therefore for my marriage's harm or for my good, my children's harm or for their good.
With every thought that I think, then you then you can back up from that and say, "Okay, do I want to spend a good portion of every day convincing myself all the different ways that I'm getting hosed in this relationship? Or do I want to spend time building a case for all the different ways that they're honoring and nurturing and growing me?" And if you start doing that, then when you see them, you see those, you filtered out the things that you were looking for that you weren't looking for, and you start to see opportunity and connection and ways that there's coming alongside you. And we did that. It was in real time where I would be at the worst moment after Mitch died at the pit of as bad as it could feel. And right when I was crying out to God, she would come in the room with a word, with a a hug or a verse that she thought of or a message that one of the kids sent. And it was Psalm 34:18 coming true. The Lord is close to the brokenhearted. And it was her.
Ministering to man that.
And so, so for us it was it was it could potentially could kill us or it potentially could make us inviable and inseparable. And that's what it did. But it started with mindset. How do we build this? How do we work this out where everything that happens is going to bring us closer together? And I think every marriage has to do that. even if you don't lose a child like like your day-to-day grind of your lives can be viewed as how am I being supported in this or how am I being let down in this and the more you think down one of those two paths the more real those two paths are going to become.
Because the reality is and I think it's hard for us to admit this we all have a filter.
Of course we do.
And I mean when I say it it's so obvious but when we're in those moments it feels as if we are seeing reality and no one else is has the courage or the honesty or the vulnerability to engage reality. And that the old maximum that we don't see the world as it is, we see the world as we are.
That's right.
It's very true. And and that that response that is a humble response. It's a curious response.
I think at least I've seen this in our marriage that allows us to continue to grow and shift and mature across the seasons of life because you're going to need something different in and through the different seasons of life. And if we have a fixed mentality or a mechanical mentality to how this works, we're not a part of cultivating and fostering and intending. Like I love the idea that the mind is is more botanical than it is mechanical.
Yes.
Which is, you know, something that you describe in this book.
And our relationships can be like that, too. Our families can be like that, too. And I hear so much language that that is hopeless, whether it's about kids or a spouse. And and I realize like we're not God. We can't control what the other person does. And there are times when someone chooses to go one way. And really the only way that we can engage with that with clarity is if we're doing the hard work of being like, "Okay, this is what I feel. I'm surrendering this to you, God. Holy Spirit, reveal to me the reality of this situation. You are the spirit of truth. You are the spirit of grace. You are the spirit of wisdom. Help me navigate this in a pl in a way that reveals what you're doing in this situation. What you are asking me and inviting me to step into."
That's right. There's something called quantum entanglement.
That we learned from the quantum physicists and it's true of people like where when you spend your mental energy and time and soul energy thinking positively about your spouse, thinking how can I serve this person? How can I better love this person? that neurochemically and on the immaterial mental side affects their state even non-verbbally, even when you're not connected. Like your spouse knows.
When they're being loved well, when they're being thought of highly, when they're being served, and it affects how they behave.
Yeah. And so if if you if you serve on that level of I'm connected to this person on a soul level and when I'm thinking of them, when I'm praying for them, I'm affecting how they feel and how they move through the world even when we're not together. And now we know from quantum physics that's actually true. Like you can't separate entangled particles can be separated across the length of the globe and they still behave in accordance with one another. And that's real science that's been proven once you're connected to a person on that level, you affect them with every thought that you think, even when you're not in the same space. And so that's powerful stewardship of your relationship because you're responsible to some degree for how they feel inside. Not not for their emotions and their decisions, but you affect them with your thoughts. And so I think if you serve your spouse well, you're affecting them. And now we know epigenetically or that that term if you're not familiar epigenetics is not the set of genes that you inherit from your parents but the things that happen in your body that turn those genes on and off. This is why identical twins don't have the same lives because they have the same genes but.
Environmental factors, mental factors, decisions they make turn things on and off. And what we know now is you can be born afraid of things that never happened to you if your parents went through some major trauma. We see that with Holocaust survivors has been studied really well. Their children have abnormal baseline stress responses and abnormal baseline cortisol levels because their parents went through stressful events. This is what I think the Bible's talking about with generational curses with this idea that decisions we make affect the third and fourth generations. I don't think God's punishing our grandchildren. I think he's warning us to be careful how we live because it affects our offspring. Yeah. The good news about that is we know now that if you do the work and change your marriage, change your trauma response, your unborn children are then born with a healthier trauma response. So, you can undo those things in one generation by getting it right in your generation. That's why we're all supposed to be really carefully stewarding our minds. I I think I think that's a really good place for us to wrap this because I I think we hear this and it it can it can just sound like a lot like oh my goodness do I need to change everything about how I'm engaging reality? Well, one of the things that I love that you describe in this book is you say a few you said hours can have generational impact.
That's right.
So it's not it's not this the weight of the world is on your shoulders. It feels like a gift of grace saying, "Hey, participate with me in this work. I I want to make a line in the sand." And when when you mentioned what what God says about the third and fourth generation, that's actually a Hebrew idiom that means for however long it takes.
Yeah.
And so, it's actually this idea of God partners with us to to bring us into the healing process and the restorative process because it says that he shows his love to a thousand generations.
That's right. And so our God is so good and patient. I mean 1 Corinthians 13, the first attribute of love.
Is love is patient. Yeah.
And and God, he is patient with the process. But God also, he's not going to tolerate those things that unmake us. He's going to be very clear and say, "Hey, this is my way. This is my word. Walk in it." And what he asks from us, and we live in a world where I would say the currency of our day is attention.
Yeah. And he's saying, "Hey, surrender your attention to me."
Yeah.
And watch how, and I love how you say this, thoughts will become things.
Yeah.
What just seems like a thought will become a reality in your life. What the enemy means to bind, to confuse, to steal, to kill, destroy, I will use to give you a flourishing life. Those areas that you thought were off limits or beyond reach, I will do generational work. That's right. I will accelerate things that you didn't even realize you could participate in. And so what I want people to hear is this hope that God can do. Just surrender where we're at. God can do in an hour. He can do it in 10 hours what what we couldn't do across generations in our own strength.
That's right.
He designed us to participate with his miraculous presence and his work, the spirit in our lives. And I think that is so beautiful. Jules, do you have anything?
I just want to thank you. Thank you that you have captured these truths and made them accessible to people.
Thank you.
Because there is so much possibility and even life that I believe.
We've numbed ourselves to in a lot of ways. And.
It just feels like it's pulling back the curtain, throwing the doors wide open to live a fuller expression of the freedom that Christ died for.
Amen.
So, thank you, Dr. Lee.
Thank you, Dr. Lee. We'll put information in the the notes about podcast, the book, everything like that so people can learn more because you also host the podcast where you talk about this idea of selfrain surgery.
That's right.
So I'd love for people to find out about that.
Thank you.
Dr. Lee, thank you again for coming on being a part of the show. It means the world. Our tradition is we pray out. Would you mind praying out for our listeners today?
Absolutely.
Thank you. Father God, thank you so much for these dear friends, Addison and Julie, and the great work that they're doing and their whole family. And I pray into the mind and the heart of everybody listening and watching today, Father, whenever it might be, that you would remind them that they are fearfully and wonderfully made in your image.
That they are made on purpose and for a purpose. they're not an accident and they're not just the brain in their head, but that you have designed their system to heal and to grow and to change and to flourish in spite of the enemy's attacks. So, thank you for this this medium, this opportunity to bring this conversation to you today, Father, and for the lives of everybody that hears it. We pray your healing and your hope in Jesus name. Amen.
Amen.
Amen. Amen.
Thank you both.
Thank you.
Thank you.